Flash Gordon's Complicated Legacy
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- Опубликовано: 4 янв 2022
- Flash Gordon is the protagonist of a space opera adventure comic strip created by and originally drawn by Alex Raymond. In this essay, we explore how Flash Gordon influenced the superheroes and sci-fi we love today, and the unfortunate dark side to Raymond's creation.
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Please do about Buck Rogers please.
Hope this gets a lot of attention. I find it fascinating to hear about the history and influences in media we see today. Both the good and the bad.
A crossover between buck rogers flash Gordon and star lord is what we need
The original Flash Gordon actor, Buster Crabbe, makes an appearance in the 1970's Buck Rogers series that starred Gil Gerard, and even makes an in-universe comment that alludes to his past as Flash Gordon. His character was even called 'Brigadier Gordon.'
@@daddystabz Buck Rogers 1979 is problematic, as it still uses race baiting; the Draconians in particular are implied to be Asians out to takeover the white man's world.
This was a great video exploring Flash's history, good and bad. Your word choice was honest and thoughtful, and your timbre of voice helped soften some of the harder-to-swallow aspects of this characters' history. Plus, linking to relevant charities was a nice touch.
I've always been interested in Flash and those Titan collections caught my eye a while back. I hope you do more on Flash (and Buck, too!)
Great video, Dane! Keep up the great work.
This video made my day. Thank you so much. Wanted to add a point from the Indian perspective. Bennett, Coleman and Company Limited (also called The Times Group) released Indrajal Comics in India. One of the comics they distributed was Flash Gordon.
Awesome! Glad you enjoyed it, and I definitely appreciate the added context.
Great work, I love you left comic gate behind, really good
The origins of Peter Quills creation and evolution is more interesting than some of the most popular superheroes.
Great video. Hope to see more like it.
4:15 Libra in the House! Great job with this series! I'm still more of a Buck Rogers fan though, but Flash is cool.
Libras rule!
Great video always had a soft spot for the original savior of the universe
Great video. I often wonder what it was like for young people in those days seeing this type of content for the first time. I am sure it was mindblowing and inspirational
It might have been for the white audiences, but most insulting for Asian audiences growing up in the 1930s.
Fantastic video!
GREAT VIDEO !!! ALL THE BEST.
2007 Flash Gordon's the best version of the characters!
Increible trabajo tenes un sub mas y un admirador en otro contienente hermano.
Incredible work, you have one more sub and a fan in another continent, brother.
So what your saying is we should tell his story to those who ask, tell it truthfully all the hidden deeds alone with the good and let him be judged according.
The rest is silent.
You haven't watched the excellent 2007 version of Flash Gordon?
@@CosmoShidan what does that have to do with this
@@justint8851 I'm pointing it out because I don't see anyone else talking about it in the comments very much.
great video
2007 Flash Gordon is better than the 1980 movie!
I've never understood the plot of moving the planet Mongo to collide with Earth. Wouldn't this be disastrous for all the inhabitants of Mongo, including Ming? If you move a planet outside its habitable zone all life on it will die. Also, it would be pretty catastrophic for the denizens of Mongo once their planet collided with Earth.
How about a Buck Rogers Vs Flash Gordan video"
The poster at 7:49 of the Flash Gordon movie. Is that anywhere to be found for sale? Can you let me know?
Recently I finished watching the 2007 Flash Gordon, and imo, it was the best depiction of the character in years. I mean transforming Ming into the Aryan superman image and a “what if Flash turned evil” depiction worked. That is, it removed the race baiting and race war narrative. Plus it’s really hilarious as it makes fun of itself; while not taking itself too seriously!
You forgot Kevin Eastman and Peter larid
unit 731
Hey you should do a video on The Phantom the ghost who walks.
Please do one about Buck Rogers please.
Much of your review here of Flash Gordon is quite good. Before trying, however, to push the history of a classic comic hero like Flash Gordon into a 21st Century, anti-racist frame, you might ask if the far left group you're talking to will be enough to support your channel. Genghis Khan's murderous reign hardly deserves the implied sympathy you seem to convey, and Alex Raymond certainly doesn't deserve your attempt to smear his legacy by asking if he should be remembered "as a virulent bigot, or as a product of his time."
The history between Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon and how the former came before the latter is truly fascinating and practically begging for a future Death Battle episode.
Thanks for the ranting lecture. Ming is one of the best bad guys ever Sorry you can't see the forest through the trees.
2007 Ming is the best portrayal to date.
Everything is "problematic" for some people. No one can enjoy anything anymore. I dont think most, except for a very small minority, find anything wrong with the original source material. You can like it and actually not be a racist. Oh my God!!!
We have more serious issues to contend with in the world today. Why not make videos geared towards those. More productive use of your time.
"you can like it and actually not be a racist" ...no shit Sherlock. Nobody claimed otherwise.
Also didnt Japan attack america... didnt china murder over 50 million of its own citizens in thier communist revolution...
Im black and i can tell you Chinese are more RACISTS than whites... the pandemic and how they treated blacks should have shown that...
Why is it ok to show a white corporate man as evil (as a lot of.them are) buf wrong to show a Chinese emperor (stand in.) As ruthless as some of them were... The Mongolian empirer desimates india and most of Arabia...
My point is this all races got dirt on their hands
Watch the 2007 Flash Gordon if you're going to complain.
Of course Batman was a rip off from The Shadow.
Okay I'm at 2:41. I'll shut up after this but 1. Don Moore was credited with early Flash Gordon scripts, like from the start. 2. Dick Calkins (and Russell Keaton) probably played as big a role as Nowlan in Buck Roger's success. Just look at Jack Kirby's Asgard, New Genesis, Atlantis in the Sub Mariner stories Gene Colan finished as Adam Austin and so on. Kirby studied both strips very carefully. Just two points you should think about.
Oh. Another point. Dan Barry, who was probably underrated, employed in the seventies and later, Bob Fujitani and Fred Kida, both Japanese-Americans. So your comments are certainly not wrong but they are a bit simplistic.
The original comics and theatrical serials definitely had the problematic Yellow Peril issues.
But I'd say that the Filmation animated adaptation, the 80s Defenders of the Earth, the 90s Flash Gordon, the 2000s Flash Gordon, and even the 1980 movie avoided that by not depicting Ming as an Asian character.
And with some of Mings henchmen having distinctly European accents, Mings regime as a whole more resembled European colonial powers than China.
The 1980 movie did show Ming as an Asian stereotype, with his golden skin and Arabic clothing. Plus, even in the Filmation adaptation, despite his green skin, he was still Asian in his facial and costume design. There's no way Flash Gordon can be made today.
@@CosmoShidan
I've tried to post this reply multiple times.
But RUclips tends to glitch when you try to include links.
I had several pictures of each example given linked in this reply.
You need to rewatch the examples you mentioned.
For starters, he didn't have golden skin in the 1980 movie.
He was Caucasian with obviously rosey pigmentation.
And his wardrobe went from Western depictions of a generic Sorcerer to exaggerated 1940s fascist uniform.
I honestly don't see any "Arabic" visual cues.
And he had brown skin in the Filmation cartoon. Not green.
And his wardrobe was pretty clearly inspired by "retro space man".
You're thinking of the other cartoons.
He had green skin in Defenders of the Earth, from Marvel Studios.
And the 90s cartoon, where he had green skin and was a lizard-like humanoid.
And in neither of them were his costumes explicitly/specifically Asian or Arabic.
Some video comments can hold links, some cannot. I suspect it is the channel owner's own settings. @@orinanime
@@misterlyle. I've learned that recently. Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.
Never got any of those racist overtones in Flash Gordon. Found you focused way too much on this point. They where all just aliens from another galaxy as far as I was concerned.
"as far as YOU were concerned". Just because it went over your head, doesn't mean it wasn't there or shouldn't be addressed
This fledgling channel is boldly trying to walk along the cutting edge of pop culture criticism, and finds that slipping over into the abyss is a risk.
@@orinanimegrow up. Adults don't get upset over race
@@megrimlocke2880 I'm not upset over race. Adults do get upset about racISM.
And adults learn and grow and accept harsh realities.
Seems like the one who needs to grow up is you, snowflake.
As someone of Asian descent, it matters because I don’t want to be viewed as a wily, cackling, hyper sexual, insane, monster out to take over the white man’s world. Plus, this entails a race war, which is what Flash Gordon was built on. Btw, grow up and learn to own up to the racism of the past bucko.
The key to understanding pre-WW2 "xenophobia" is that nobody in the U.S. or the world before that time ever lived in a world where racism wasn't commonly accepted, if not outright praised. Everybody living in those times were just living within their times. Raymond wasn't pushing any particular narratives by using the Yellow Peril, he was just handing his audience a ready-made villain he knew they would root against (just like how most post-WW2 mega-villains were based on Hitler or Stalin). It was a very lazy choice. But hey, this was for the masses who enjoy such lazy choices...
Waititi would be the WORST POSSIBLE choice for Flash Gordon. He openly admits he's happy to destroy any franchise he touches, turning everything into a ridiculous cheap joke-fest. Leaning on silliness is the exact problem of the 1980 Flash Gordon movie. Where Star Wars took itself seriously (ep 4, 5 anyway), the Flash Gordon movie did not and suffered at the box office because of it. Hiring Waititi--just because of his racial background--would be the same mistake times a hundred. Better to find the producer and director of the amazing--and straightly told--1979 Filmation cartoon....the very best video iteration of Flash Gordon ever.
If Waititi isn't your cup of tea, then I suggest the 2007 Flash Gordon. In this version, they finally got rid of the racial stereotyping, by making Ming a fascist from the 1930s, who's media savvy, and making Gordon more down to earth by making him a college dropout, a car mechanic, and a local marathon runner, all the while, the cultures of Mongo more realistic by basing their ways of life off their foodways and environment. It's super rad! Definitely a step above the 1980 version, or any of the animated versions that came before it.
It is very fascinating to see a deep dive being taken into this franchise... and it's also very responsible of you to also call out the things that, especially by today's standards, are just unacceptable.
Soy rant about how racist Flash Gordon creators are/were
The 2007 version is worth watching as it gets rid of the racist version of Ming by making him the mirror image of Flash, but evil of course!
I really loved the old movie from 1980, and are sure I would not like a new version at all. The last TV version was absolutely awful. Anyways, it do not seem to be an actor today who would be able to do the character justice anyhow.
What are you talking about? The 2007 version followed the first 7 years of the comics perfectly with little alterations, even down to being campy. Sure they took out Ming's traditional aesthetics, but it was for the better as he's a much more realistic dictator who presents himself as a savior when he's a tyrant behind the scenes. Plus, he's the mirror image of Flash, but if he turned evil. Not to mention, they managed to simplify space travel with wormhole travel, an idea not new to Flash as it was seen in the awful 1996 animated series, yet done well. The tribes on Mongo are also portrayed in a more believable fashion, as they have more to do with foodways and terrain that determine their cultures rather than being derived from Nordic cultures. Also, Ming's motives are far more believable in that he wants to invade earth so he can steal our water supply, rather than he's evil for the sake of it. Overall, it's a much better adaptation that avoids the racist, Orientalist cliches of yesteryear.
@@CosmoShidan My issue with the 2007 version was that it removed the rocketships, the colorful outfit and all the other "camp" elements. I did not really see it, because when it was advertised as being without rocketships I did not bother. I could do without the "yellowface" stuff, but love the other cheesiness.
@@steinarvilnes3954 The rocketships were removed because it was low-budgeted. However, having the rocketships would have made it pointless, since traditionally, the ship used by Zarkov, Dale, and Flash gets discarded and the story is spent mostly on Mongo. This show took Flash in a new direction, as we now go back-and-forth between Earth and Mongo thanks to wormhole technology. Not to mention that Flash has more motivation to go to Mongo, as he's looking for his long lost father, yet he's been downgraded to an everyperson, such as being a college dropout, having a job as a car plant worker, living with his single mother, and he's a local marathon runner. Also, the colorful suit is replaced by a traditional space gunslinger's leather jacket.
I do recommend giving it a try, since there are still Lovecraftian monstrocities, space vampires, and wizards which are also Flash Gordon traditions as they are space western traditions.
@@CosmoShidan I do not like vampires or wizards, I like rocketships. I am simply childish when it comes to space opera. I just prefer the way of the 1980 movie.
@@steinarvilnes3954 As I said, space vampires and space wizards are a tradition to the Flash Gordon comics, so it does have all the elements of the comics, sans the rocketships. Though another reason they had to take out the rocketships was to keep Flash down to earth. My problem with the tradtional portrayal of Flash is that he's too invulnerable. His being good at everything not only makes him unrelatible, it also portrays him as an aristocrat. By taking away all his skills, such as being a pilot, a fencer, marksperson, diver, swimmer, and skier renders him more grounded, and his skills limited to being a mechanic, small-time athlete, and not as an Aryan overman. Ming fills the role of an Aryan overman instead.
The 1980 film is just plain awful, especially as they didn't do anything new with the material. They kept the race-baiting nature of Ming, Aura, and his army. Thus it's the same race war, yellow-peril paranoia recycled and out of place even back in then.
Couldn't listen once the woke lecture started.
What? Do you have a problem with acknowledging the racist background and the racist roots behind the main villain of Flash Gordon's story?
@@HenryLouis21 Nope, probably like me didn't watch the video for a TED talk on historic racism. Acknowledgement of the phenomenon is enough in terms of contextualization, whereas trying to tie it in to contemporary politics in a half-baked manner just stinks of partisan hackery. Nothing insightful was offered, especially for those of us outside of the US.
I guess 2007 Flash Gordon isn’t your cup of tea.
I mean Waititi’s still making the movie. It’s just live-action now.
Oy vey! You can't name an asian character Ming! That's racist!
The 2007 version gets rid of the race baiting and turns Ming into tall, blonde, blue-eyed, athletic, Aryan superman. It's the best Flash Gordon in years.
I'm finding a paradox when looking at Captain America combatting fascists. Basically, he was meant to be an anti-fascist, yet he has traits of fascist, such as blonde hair and blue eyes, making him an Aryan superman much like Flash Gordon who inspired his design. Simply put, the WWII-era Cap is implying that there can be only one fascist running the world, and that's America. It appears that also has to do with the ugly side of America, such as the genocide of Indigenous American persons. Also, it doesn't help that a comic strip about an Aryan superman going out of his way lead the white races aganst the "yellow peril" is even more disturbing, just as Cap combatting Asians who attack Perarl Habor with a mechanical sea dragon.
If you think hair and eye color are fascist traits, I recommend looking at Humberto Eco or Jason Stanley’s descriptions so you have an accurate understanding. Hair and eyes are not indicators of fascism.
@@ActualFandom Hey thanks for the response!
But, I admit, my actual reasoning comes from historian Al Carroll, who did a similar analysis in his own video of Flash Gordon, however, he being of Indigenous descent wasn't very favorible when looking at the work from the lens of a person of color.
Also, I take the yellow peril aspect of Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers to heart, as I find it to be most offensive to someone like myself as I am of Arabic and Filipino descent.
America is liberal
@@turtleboy1188 Yes, if we infer the aesthetics from a present-day lens, Cap's first cover is him saying in this day and age, "hey Hitler, there's only room for one Aryan superman empire, and that's AMERICA, fuck yeah!", considering the race war story Flash Gordon is as well.
I don't really understand the west over sensitivity about racial stereotypes, if you watch Chinese movies/tv series this kind of characters exist,
This woke bs is just rediculous
Have you actually spoken to a person of Chinese or Arabic descent how that makes them feel to see their image on screen demonized or being called a "terrorist" as a form of harassment? Because that is basically the equivalant of Italians being stereotyped as mobsters.
@@CosmoShidan no but I've seen an American movie once where Filipino crime syndicate are the villains, as a Filipino myself that's totally badass
@@keonscinist2333 Was the hero a white dude? Because if so, that's a race war film where it's telling white folk to "Fear the Pinoy" because we're ALL mobsters.
Besides, the best portrayal of Filipinos as heroes was in the tv series Andromeda, in which the titular character and ship was played by Filipina-Canadian actress Lexa Doig, or Space:Above and Beyond, in which Filipino-American actor Joel de la Fuente played a space marine (if you can get past the latter half of the series where he is portrayed as coward and traitor).
Taiko Watiti would have been a horrible choice for Flash Gordon.
Stick to cartoon series instead.
Taika is a good writer and director, yes his two Thor movies leave a lot to be desired but JoJo Rabbit, Hunt for the Wilderpeople, and so many projects of his are really good.
@@HenryLouis21
That's my point, Mr. "I-ruin-your-mythos-in-a-minute" is better left making something that suits him better and Flash Gordon isn't one of them as far as "superhero" material goes, Flash being one.
@@lazy-a-ile8608 he literally said that as a joke towards some prick on the internet who hated the fact that we were getting Jane Foster as Thor in the MCU.
@@HenryLouis21
Yet he did excatly that, my point stands.
no I want a live action movie
Showing Trump and characterizing him as racist because he rightfully pointed out that the COVID virus originated from China was a dumb political move by you and was totally unneeded/unnecessary. You lost my thumbs up and pretty much ruined what would have been an excellent video.
He did more than point out where it originated. Deliberately calling it "the China Virus". Spreading fear mongering propaganda. And spreading hate. Losing your thumbs up isn't going to matter. The video has plenty. And it'll get mine.
Even an unnecessary blunder doesn't knock A+ work all the way down to F. You're right, it would have been excellent but still is worth at least a B+.
It's a good thing the 2007 Flash Gordon made a mockery of folk like Trump before 2017.
Having fun in Biden's brok, open border America? Get out of here.@@CosmoShidan
@@daddystabz I'm an anarchist, I don't adhere to either of those rapists or white supremacists, so go and crawl under some rock.
If only you could have stayed away of judging past creations by current culture and just said "It was a different time" this would have been a great video. Inserting current cultural thinking and scoring cheap political points ruined what was shaping up to be a great analysis video.
That's irrelevant, especially as even back then, there would have boycotts from the black and Asian communities.