Im just getting into archery but have been doing lots of research and have an aerospace engineering background. I had the exact same idea with the gyro stabilizer too a few weeks ago and it doesn't seem like anybody has done one yet. I like the way you think sir!
Let’s Go!!!! I think what you’re saying is that we want Dorge from Firenock to build a bow. Music to my ears. BTW it’s possible he already has every patent for the bow of the future.
I think a system like soft closures on cabinets or toilet seats for bow cams would be a good thing. Cams come over violently and then just as the arrow comes off the string they slow way down and come to rest. This could also reduce dry fires damaging bows. But since archery is an offhand shooting sport i think it would be dificult to come up with something for the masses and innovation is expensive. There's a reason Mathews and Hoyt make primarily the same bow for a decade or more with minor changes from year to year, however after 5+ years there may be a significant enough change to possibly warrant a person upgrading. Some of the most noteable pieces of tech recently are the Bowtech Deadlok and Elite S.E.T. tuning systems. Xpedition's X-loy is neat as a material as well is Prime nano-grip. I think Prime makes medical supplies and Xepedition is in aerospace industry and companies like those would most likely be able to subsidize their archery business to make some new crazy technology, whereas others may not have the budget to do it.
Going on the arrow route of this, gps tracking arrow so if u make a shoulder shot or something where the arrow gets stuck in the animal and u can then track it easier
Great video. I love the out of the box thinking. As an engineer I can really marvel at the technology that is already in the bows of today but you are correct advancements will come in material sciences. Stronger, lighter, faster. Someone else in the comments talked about guns and how they hold there value but bows aren’t the same. They have parts that wear out. I have a gun in my collection that is 150 years old and it still works like a charm. Whereas we are pushing the materials on bows to the extreme and they just don’t have the longevity. ANYWAY…. Love the thinking keep it up
When you talked about car manufactures "imagineering" concept cars, it reminded me that manufactures that have factory racing teams use some racing tech in their street cars. Carbon ceramics brakes on sports cars and regenerative braking in Tesla's are 2 examples . Back to your "5k Bow", I think the main issue is cost. One solution is, in order to keep the cost of R&D down and have the product stay affordable for customers, several brands would have to come together and Frankenstein a bow. Another could be to make incremental improvements to a platform that has proven itself to be the best that manufacturer can make (ie Mathews bow for the last 5 years) until it becomes the "Perfect" bow. Another issue is, what is the "Perfect" bow? If you want something lightweight and cost wasn't an issue for manufacturers or consumers, a carbon fiber riser with titanium cams (even thought titanium is heavier than aluminum, you would need less material to make the cams just as strong) and titanium bolts would be very light and very expensive. This is a very long comment, I'll get my thoughts together and flesh them out more on my own.
Okay my big what if idea is Mathews 27” bow with a magnesium frame and cams that are custom to every person with silk spider strings and the bridge lock system but with no options for standard sights or stabilizers
Gyroscope idea is pretty golden. Once I handled a pair of binoculars with a gyroscope in them. They were very steady, and about 8 pounds! It's still a good idea.
A cam that has a spinning counterweight. Starts the recoil spin a millisecond before the actual cam spins then locks to cam to increase speed of string but same time decrease the amount of limb extension wich would decrease vibration?
I think it would be cool to have some kind of projection sight. That would take care of bumping your sights in the field. Somehow digitally set the pins to set them. When you draw your bow your sight housing and pins are projected. Kind of like the technology pilots use
Mathew’s style riser, but made of carbon. Put gyroscopes where the dampeners are and add lightweight dampening material inside of the carbon riser. Then use carbon for the cams with an aluminum / titanium track for the string to ride in. Also have aluminum/ titanium threaded inserts for assembly. The inserts being closer to the outside of the cam to increase the leverage(maybe making the cam spin faster? Maybe the carbon be layered around an internal frame for the cams?
I was just talking to my brother about a solid titanium riser.and my son mentioned a gyro for archery the last time we talked about bows.crazy coincidence.
Smooth brains caught up with the three innovation examples brandon cited… The most compelling concept Brandon brought forth came through early in the video when he drew a comparison to the automotive industry and how the idea of of diminishing-returns-via-increasing-costs (all by design) seems to be missing in the hunting bow industry. Surely there are folks who will pay twice as much for a 5% gain in performance metric X or addition of feature Y, no? Right now the price range for a new hunting bow is between $400-$1,300. Compare that to say the bicycle industry which swings from $200-$10,000+ to go from a 19lbs alloy frame to a 13lbs spun carbon frame, or the gaming industry which swings from a $300 console to a $5,000+ PC to get you from 60fps to 240fps… Examples abound, ad naseum.
How about a bowsight that you could input your arrow speed taken from a chronograph at the bow and the sight acts as a gps receiver and then you could paint a target and it takes a gps reading of your target transmits that reading to the sight and then automatically adjusts your pin to compensate for elevation and windage so all you have to do is point, push a pressure pad take a reading, put your pin on the target and fire the arrow? How about arrows made of carbon, wrapped with aluminum but they have tungsten disulfide, molybendum, or ceramic baked onto the aluminum to make it so slick that the lack of friction makes for faster arrow speeds? Perhaps ceramic arrows? Kevlar strings? Carbon fiber or ceramic bow cams similar to carbon fiber or ceramic brakes on race cars?
Premium cam bearings that are weather proof. Should be an option because the ones now are trash. For the higher price the bow should be fully fitted to customer. No cam Adjustments so you get most performance out of every cam. 1/8 increments of cam sizes. Custom ata and brace height. Cerokate the cams like xpedition did. In the end of day it would be hard to justify the price. It works with rifles because your capable of making 1000yd shots rather than 300yd. With a bow your still shooting a deer at 20
A lot if what makes a high end rifle like say a blaser high end isn't special materials per se. Its Gucci materials like specialty woods with emaculate finish, old style blue like slow rust, finer machining and attention to detail. Rounding of edges, little details add up. Optics are another thing after 1000 dollars it takes a lot of money to get little bit nicer or another small feature. I get it though. What your looking for is a luxury product. I work in the gun business so I get it trust me.
Gyroscope? The big missing thing in archery is that we don't have the equivalent of a benchrest. Benchrest being steady, but fired like a human is firing it (versus a leadsled or a hooter shooter). This hits us in two ways. Nobody know what we are getting in improvements, as we can't really test them. Someone passes you that 20 grand Blaser, at least you can determine if for the dough it shoots as well as a 500 dollar Savage. The second thing we are missing is field stabilization. With rifles you can gain accuracy from a tree, the ground, by spooning with another marine, or shooting off sticks. Archery so binds up your body position it is hard to do something like shooting sticks where you can slap the rifle down, and yet you can contort to redirect the point of aim because, some new body position won't change your back tension or draw length. These issues would be easy to work out. All we need is a rested position stage, if it doesn't already exist (I don't follow competitions closely enough). And here is the pay-off: More shooters. Over the years guys like to shoot off rests, bipods, and barackade positions. The art of offhand, and all the other positions has really been pushed to the edge. But more people will do archery if there was a way to cheat it. People don't like working to master rifle shooting, they want easy results. Same thing with archery. The compound created an explosion, but it is still based largely on a crazy standing position form of shooting.
I 100% support this because it wouldn't be my company funding this idea. It's similar to DARPA who develops technology that is consistently 20-25 years ahead. Eventually that technology is no longer cost prohibitive and makes its way to the public market.
Trickle down technology is "a thing", as I'm sure you know...that being said, other than your gyroscope ideas, we'd have to have access to the version of the Periodic Table that is used in Area 51. Back to the gyroscope. What you're on to here is combining existing technologies; think ICBM, and minor corrections for poor release. Fun topic!
I like your brainstorming idea of a $5000 bow... The first thing is; What makes a $5000 rifle? A SS or Chrome Moly with a basic profile & no threads $550or less. Add fluting, Cerekote or Cryo or Melonite that will add to the price. Carbon fiber barrels run $660++. Then there is; What caliber, riffling. twist & process of rifling? NightForce or Swarovski more money. Might add a muzzle brake...Now the labor; Your gunsmith will cut the threads. Ream the cartridge of the round you want and add freebore. Match the barrel & bolt(to the thousandths) to the receiver. Maybe, add or subtract a little to the profile of the barrel &/or stock for fit. Then glass bed the rifle. Super custom would be to create a wood stock form a shaped block of wood. So, what would a $5000 bow be like. Not sure? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ok so sorry think that if there was some type of fluid like oobleck that has pockets in the riser I think that it has potential to dampen vibrations. I’m not a scientist but I think it would work
From what i know(speaking with sales reps from another company). There is a bow company that has an active patent of gyroscopic technology on a bow. So maybe Brandon is in kahoots and knows more than he’s saying 🤷🏽♂️
Why couldn’t they do some kind of a gear reduction system in the cams so it would multiply your draw weight many times over and that would create insane speeds.
they have these things called carbon fibre risers...... titanium would be heavier and cost a ridiculous amount more for no advantage, not just the material cost, the machining cost. Worked in mechanical engineering for over 25 years and mostly as a machinist, you want a titanium riser someone would make it but you going down a rabbit hole where you would be lucky to get your desired bow for under $15,000. You want it lighter? maybe beryllium alloy, but good luck getting any machinist to make one with that. Not trying to be negative but high grade aluminium and c/f are used for a very good reason.
The recurve folks have ILF Bows. Which is basically a standard which different manufactures make limbs or risers that are interchangeable. So for compounds imagine the riser from say APA with a integrated winch for tree stand hunting, matched up to the new Phase 4 limb set up from Mathews or Bow Techs dead lock system with cams form Hoyt and strings from Catfish or whom ever you wanted to get your parts from. The key thing is they are all built to a certain set of standards which make them interchangeable so you could easily customized your own set up. A variety of riser lengths, a variety of limb weights/sizes/ materials. Yes more complicated but you could make as cheap or expensive bow as you like. Would be interesting to see where that pushes the creative juices.
My mind goes to setup. Lights are cheap. Why couldn't we have lasers that come out and light perfect center from the riser and berger hole so you know exactly where to put your d-loop & arrow rest?
I machined some mandrels for a company that made heart implants quite a few years back. And the material in these heart implants was called Nitinol nickel titanium (aka memory wire). The consistency of the recoil and spring rate of this material is literally, medical grade... I had a thought once that if limbs could be made from this ultra light weight material, that had super precise rates of bound and rebound that it could be used for limbs. I searched hard and long for companies that offered this material in bar stock that would be able to be machined. But to no avail I couldn't find anything of the kind.
Durability... across the board. And just once, I want to deal with quivers aren't plastic POS. Company called Tree limb makes decent quivers, they should be hired as consultants.
Idk if you know what a third world looks like. Maybe. But I like this idea of a gyroscope, it would help with movement and balance I believe. If it was battery operated they could build it into the riser.
If you google you will find gyros used to stabilize video cameras, now it mostly in aircraft as brushless motor gimbals and in camera stabilization have taken over for small cameras. for a bow or rifle I cant think of a reason they would not work, they would be heavy... that weight spinning at high RPP is what gives the stabilizing force. brushless motor gimbals wont work, you would need the bow in a balanced cradle..you will get mostly these when you google I dont know, it would be cool but also not really archery.... like standing vs shooting from a bench, 2 very different sports.
A Smart Bow concept would be nice. We have the technology in cars and firearms already. Here is the idea..... You have a bow and it is set for you, but I pick it up, and it is set for me as well. It could be fingerprint, or perhaps a chip in the arrow to let the bow know who is shooting it. :)
I think bow manufacturers are further ahead in technology than they let on. But why jump ahead 10 years when that’s 10 years of incremental changes and profit between now and then? I have a friend who is an engineer at Toyota. He said they currently work on model development at a minimum of 10 years out. He said all Tesla did was jump ahead of the curve pushing every one else to skip several production models
I like the way this guy thinks not 5000$ but he’s onto something!!! I loved my Mathew’s monster with the 5 inch brace height but it had shitty cams and I messed up my arm and it had 80# limbs on it. I pulled it back and it jumped because the cams are aggressive and the string slipped of the cam. The cams were too thin!
Mini jet engine at the back of the arrow that would be ignited at release and could propel the arrow 3-400 yards on a flat trajectory at top speed? Just spitballing here.
Built in hog lights ( hate the buttons on aftermarket screw in lights you have to run cables … sucks ) Call it a … Texas edition. Whataburger/ buccees/ Alamo color options. It will sell
Riser material is one thing I've thought about numerous times. I don't know what kind of aluminum all the different companies are using but I know there are extremely strong, lightweight alloys available that are used all the time in the firearms industry. Use an alloy to make the most rigid riser on the market, lighter than the lightest carbon. I'm sure it could be done. Also, I feel like no one ever talks about arrows. Everyone seems to be focused on the bow itself but I never hear anyone talk about experimenting with different materials for arrows. Obviously aluminum has already been tried but what about titanium? Would it bend the same way aluminum does? There again, some obscure alloy that no one knows about. There has to be something out there worth experimenting with that could be better than carbon. Speaking of weird alloys, the new Xpedition bows look nice.
Hear me out. A bow with a 40-50lb draw. You get it to full draw then hit a thumb switch, then little electric servo motors crank down the limb bolts to 90-100lbs, but you’ve got the letoff so it doesn’t have that much of a felt change. You fire and let go of the switch and the motors back out again. Servos or stepper motors on CNC machines can be accurate to .0001” or better so it shouldn’t effect the tune.
I love the ideas and totally agree. I think the bottleneck will be local game agencies. What will they allow. I can’t comprehend even now why let-off % are a thing they govern. Why make me less effective?
How about a dual cam system that allows you to draw the bow with almost no weight. Then at full draw the cam adjusts to say 75 pounds- or higher. you would be able to get smaller or weaker hunters the ability to have more KE.
I can build a $5000 bow in a heart beat, mathews 33 phase 4, the mathews stablizers, a few weights, high end release, axcel sight, ultriview sight, hamskie rest and peep, boom 5-6k bow
I do like your motivation to advance the archery technology so it eventually trickles down to benefit the whole community and the gyroscope idea does sound pretty dang cool. I think manufacturers often have to walk a fine line between advancing technology in bows and keeping archery, archery. (if that makes sense)
Patrick, your comments resonate with me mate. At what point does it stop being organic and becomes clinical. I like that it takes hours of time at the range fine tuning the bow, but more so me, to make a good shot.
An electronic cam brake system that still allows the arrow to still be released but at the same time slows down the cam down such that it completely kills the hard stop vibration and thus 100% kills the noise of the bow. Imagine shooting a bow that is truly 100% silent… imagine having an arrow that is 100% silent…. That would nullify all arguments about FPS etc. the animal would literally never know what hit it. That’s the Holy Grail of archery in my opinion… 0 detection.
be pretty cool to have a vibranium riser, it would take the vibration and transfer the energy to the arrow lol. I like where your mind is.random thoughts. merry Christmas and happy new year to you and your family. keep up the good work.
This was a great video and gave me ideas on some projects🤔 never give a mechanical engineer a good idea. Either the engineer ruins the idea or the idea ruins the engineer😅
Hell I’m almost half way there with my $1999 Xpedition X- Lite 33 I just ordered. Sooner or later folks are going to draw a line for price on hunting bows. The average Joe has to work a bunch of OT just to afford a $1200 bare bow let alone a $5000 one. The current crop of flagship bows are about maxed out technologically. I can’t see any jaw dropping innovations coming about anytime soon.
I managed the composites mfg processes for a certain bow manufacturer. There are certain hurdles that bow manufacturers face vs firearm manufacturers; the biggest being market size. There is a much larger market in the firearm world, even within niches (long range hunters are also often in competitive shooting, tacticalshooting, etc) than archery. Archery manufacturers often come close to losing their shirts at times due to devlopment and mfg costs vs revenue. There's definitely more exotic materials and technologies available for archery, but the reward for using those things is still limited to the same small pool of consumers. I think if archery manufacturers could figure out a way to make bows more modular, then you'd see an aftermarket for that stuff. But, for most people the bow you buy is the bow you get and most folks have the pro shop set it up for you (which archery mfgs still have a pro shop based business model; they don't want you biying a bow online and setting it up yourself). Where as with my 10k precision rifle, I can throw on a Proof barrel, I can throw on a Bartlein barrel, I can put it in one of 20 diferent chassis, or 1 of 50 different stocks, I could buy a Terminus action or a Zermatt action and build from there, etc. But due to that you see way more innovation in materials for sports like golf, shooting, or skiing than you do for archery.
With carbon bows being at a premium for those who desire the feel and weight advantages, how long until companies move to carbon hand held releases, no more cold to touch and has that carbon premium feel as well.
I am surprised that there is not a bow riser where the grip mounted around bearings so that the grip can rotate with not much friction around the vertical axis. It seems that this would eliminate hand torque and everyone would shoot better. Easy old tech with big potential improvement.
It's an interesting thought experiment but it'd be hard to convince people to buy a $5000 bow every year or two. This is what keeps the bow companies alive. Gun manufacturers have to come up with new calibers to try and entice people to buy a new gun, that's all they have. If I buy a new gun my grand kids can use it and little will have changed in that time. Just my two cents keep producing these good vids. 👍
Can i send you a p.m. im been thinking alooooot about gyro technology, it could be ground breaking.. i want see were this is going, speed of the gyro, weight,angles..
I think the biggest hurdle is resale and intrinsic value. A $20000 rifle will still be worth $20000 in five years. A $1000 bow in five years is worth $200 at best. Archery is niche hobby and the average bowhunters arent spending five grand on a bow in mass. Especially every year. Same reason not everyone drives a Ferrari. It would be unaffordable to the masses.
Tire $5k bow will be probably $1k in 5 years given if the company does not release new bow every year with same tech slightly different look. But the $20k gun will be $20k gun 10 years from now or go up in value is a fallacy unless it is discontinued and is a good quality gun. If manufacturers still make them why would I pay 20k for it unless it was during pandemic, but how often something like that happened?
Unaffordable to the masses isn't the idea. You're right about resale value but there would be a market for the type of bow he's talking about. And it may take something like a super premium bow with a few wild modifications. To push bow makers to innovate past what they are currently able to. He's right that bow technology has plateaued with only micro adjustments and improvements. Not that that's bad. They have just reached the height of what they can do with bow technology at this time.
A $1300 rifle WILL be worth 1300 in five years because if you want that rifle 5 years later the cost has risen for a new one. So, you can get your money back. But, Im done with $1200 bows and cant sell them fours years later. Its totally throwing your money down the toilet because nothing really different has come along except little tweeks and bells and whistles. Now a custom recurve or longbow is a different story and they have no aerospace engineering and redicilous priced accesories. So, i guess it all comes down to marketing and if i drink the cool-aid or not with these bows.
Actually I don’t know that I totally agree with a $20k rifle you can resale for $20k. When you get to that level I think you definitely are going to lose some money. Now the principle behind what you are saying I understand though.
Like Bill Winke says , "Always Dream Big". You are doing just that. Maybe you would still need stabizers to counter any vibration , maybe not given your dream bow . I wonder how big the market would be for such a technologically advanced bow . ? ?
Titanium is not lighter but is stronger. You may be able to make a cam lighter by using the titanium and using less material. But that seems like that would be marginal improvement compared to cost.
I machined titanium knives for quite a while for Rick Hinderer, so I understand VERY well how titanium would work for cams….there would literally be zero qualities that were not superior to aluminum other than the price. You could use less material in titanium, and be stronger than aluminum…so you could absolutely make a titanium cam lighter and stronger than aluminum….plus if an aluminum cam gets whacked…it WILL bend, where titanium will be much less likely to bend. Titanium is more ‘flexible’ than aluminum. It is kinda ‘gummy’ when you machine it…so it isn’t quite as easy to machine…but it would be great for cams. Better than aluminum.
The way I could see paying $5,000 for a bow like you would for a gun as you say is the bow would have to holds it's value like a gun does 10-20 years from now
I think practice and commitment will always outweigh technology. I choose not to hunt with a rifle but todays bows in the right hands are comparable at a 100 yards. I think hunting skills are being lost because of the long range accuracy of todays bows. Bow hunting for me is the game of getting close to the animals. Just my opinion. Love and respect for you Brandon. It's good to see you back. Hopefully with in home internet we'll be seeing a lot more. Thank you.
I understand the Gyroscope idea completely. They make them for boats (like you mentioned) but the only thing is with a boat, you want to put them roughly 1/3 of the way up moving towards the bow (front) of the boat. Im not sure where the center of gravity is on a bow (im thinking close to the grip in the riser as it would make the most sense) but that might be something that comes into play where its located depending on riser shape. Seakeeper is the leader in this technology for the marine world and makes some really cool demos to see on their RUclips channel.
The Achilles heel of Compound Bows is the Cable Rod (friction). But even true Shoot-throughs like the Darton Vegas; OK Archery; or Gear Head lines still don't exceed standard speeds... Jorge Sprave engineered two compounds to fire Repeating Arrows, this was a true innovation! Air Bows show us that arrows have a Maximal Velocity. I'd like to see 80# become the new 60#, with even 100# Compounds - and the shafts strong enough to suit!
I think the gyroscope idea is very interesting for target application, and great for hunting as long as it is quiet. The biggest issue I see from a physics standpoint is that once triggered, it will fight required adjustments just as much as it fights unwanted movement. I think this could be overcome.
Bow performance hasn’t really changed for 10 plus years. The Bowtech destroyer was making 350 fps when it was released and Hoyt’s carbon element/matrix bow are about 12 years old, and the produced the same speed as todays carbons. Mathews had a couple high end bows the safari and wake. High country archery produced a 370 fps bow about 15 years ago. Other than materials not advancing, another consideration for lack of development could be the perception of archery gear being primitive, and the potential to run into legal issues as the technology advances. If you want a precision rifle type bow, buy a target bow with hunting weight limbs and camo.
Dude !! I totally agree and am on board with advancing Innovations and building concept HIGH end bows even if its in limited numbers annually. Lets go folks ! I love this shit !
Titanium should definitely be a thing. There’s a guy who was in a NASA program of some kind if I remember correctly. And he was selling titanium hardware and bearings for bows, and allegedly it changed the harmonic vibrations of the entire unit. Allegedly made it quiet lighter and performed better. I wanna see a titanium riser. And I also wanna see speed increases.
Im just getting into archery but have been doing lots of research and have an aerospace engineering background. I had the exact same idea with the gyro stabilizer too a few weeks ago and it doesn't seem like anybody has done one yet. I like the way you think sir!
I'm catching up on your vids ive missed and this is Genius!
Glad you like them!
Let’s Go!!!!
I think what you’re saying is that we want Dorge from Firenock to build a bow. Music to my ears.
BTW it’s possible he already has every patent for the bow of the future.
I think a system like soft closures on cabinets or toilet seats for bow cams would be a good thing. Cams come over violently and then just as the arrow comes off the string they slow way down and come to rest. This could also reduce dry fires damaging bows.
But since archery is an offhand shooting sport i think it would be dificult to come up with something for the masses and innovation is expensive. There's a reason Mathews and Hoyt make primarily the same bow for a decade or more with minor changes from year to year, however after 5+ years there may be a significant enough change to possibly warrant a person upgrading. Some of the most noteable pieces of tech recently are the Bowtech Deadlok and Elite S.E.T. tuning systems. Xpedition's X-loy is neat as a material as well is Prime nano-grip. I think Prime makes medical supplies and Xepedition is in aerospace industry and companies like those would most likely be able to subsidize their archery business to make some new crazy technology, whereas others may not have the budget to do it.
Going on the arrow route of this, gps tracking arrow so if u make a shoulder shot or something where the arrow gets stuck in the animal and u can then track it easier
I think this one is 100% doable now. I know there are golf balls that have it.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 i can definitely see it coming in the near future, my bet is on ultraveiw designing and releasing it first
Great video. I love the out of the box thinking. As an engineer I can really marvel at the technology that is already in the bows of today but you are correct advancements will come in material sciences. Stronger, lighter, faster. Someone else in the comments talked about guns and how they hold there value but bows aren’t the same. They have parts that wear out. I have a gun in my collection that is 150 years old and it still works like a charm. Whereas we are pushing the materials on bows to the extreme and they just don’t have the longevity. ANYWAY…. Love the thinking keep it up
I believe that strings are the next big breakthrough. We’ve been using the same material for a LONGGGGGG time.
When you talked about car manufactures "imagineering" concept cars, it reminded me that manufactures that have factory racing teams use some racing tech in their street cars. Carbon ceramics brakes on sports cars and regenerative braking in Tesla's are 2 examples . Back to your "5k Bow", I think the main issue is cost. One solution is, in order to keep the cost of R&D down and have the product stay affordable for customers, several brands would have to come together and Frankenstein a bow. Another could be to make incremental improvements to a platform that has proven itself to be the best that manufacturer can make (ie Mathews bow for the last 5 years) until it becomes the "Perfect" bow. Another issue is, what is the "Perfect" bow? If you want something lightweight and cost wasn't an issue for manufacturers or consumers, a carbon fiber riser with titanium cams (even thought titanium is heavier than aluminum, you would need less material to make the cams just as strong) and titanium bolts would be very light and very expensive. This is a very long comment, I'll get my thoughts together and flesh them out more on my own.
Okay my big what if idea is Mathews 27” bow with a magnesium frame and cams that are custom to every person with silk spider strings and the bridge lock system but with no options for standard sights or stabilizers
Funny, had the gyroscope idea a while ago.
Brother, I have had the gyroscope idea for about a year now that is wild
Just the sight concept would be expensive. Like an upgrade on the Garmin but yet still legal to use huntingl
Gyroscope idea is pretty golden. Once I handled a pair of binoculars with a gyroscope in them. They were very steady, and about 8 pounds! It's still a good idea.
Wonder how much of that weight is the housing and glass though.
Simple Idea
A way to roll a slider sight at full draw.
came back to this video after the mathews title came out with the carbon bars and a good site and rest 5 grand isnt far off now
A cam that has a spinning counterweight. Starts the recoil spin a millisecond before the actual cam spins then locks to cam to increase speed of string but same time decrease the amount of limb extension wich would decrease vibration?
Maybe set of by a Bluetooth release?
Very tru but it's already happening with crossbows not high prices or expensive technology but have different technology in all the brands out there.
I think it would be cool to have some kind of projection sight. That would take care of bumping your sights in the field. Somehow digitally set the pins to set them. When you draw your bow your sight housing and pins are projected. Kind of like the technology pilots use
That could be sick!
I would call it CGI, common ground innovations, stepping outside the box
They did something similar to what you're talking about. They made crossbows.
Great to see you back. Gyro bow….take my money!
Mathew’s style riser, but made of carbon. Put gyroscopes where the dampeners are and add lightweight dampening material inside of the carbon riser. Then use carbon for the cams with an aluminum / titanium track for the string to ride in. Also have aluminum/ titanium threaded inserts for assembly. The inserts being closer to the outside of the cam to increase the leverage(maybe making the cam spin faster? Maybe the carbon be layered around an internal frame for the cams?
Then maybe full carbon accessories to go along with it. Would probably just be a site.
Imagine a compound, fast, smooth and forgiving. 3 lbs. 34” ata, 7” brace.
The ACE arrow was the concept car of its day.
I was just talking to my brother about a solid titanium riser.and my son mentioned a gyro for archery the last time we talked about bows.crazy coincidence.
Xpedition has an aluminum carbon riser. 🤔
Smooth brains caught up with the three innovation examples brandon cited… The most compelling concept Brandon brought forth came through early in the video when he drew a comparison to the automotive industry and how the idea of of diminishing-returns-via-increasing-costs (all by design) seems to be missing in the hunting bow industry. Surely there are folks who will pay twice as much for a 5% gain in performance metric X or addition of feature Y, no? Right now the price range for a new hunting bow is between $400-$1,300. Compare that to say the bicycle industry which swings from $200-$10,000+ to go from a 19lbs alloy frame to a 13lbs spun carbon frame, or the gaming industry which swings from a $300 console to a $5,000+ PC to get you from 60fps to 240fps… Examples abound, ad naseum.
How about a bowsight that you could input your arrow speed taken from a chronograph at the bow and the sight acts as a gps receiver and then you could paint a target and it takes a gps reading of your target transmits that reading to the sight and then automatically adjusts your pin to compensate for elevation and windage so all you have to do is point, push a pressure pad take a reading, put your pin on the target and fire the arrow? How about arrows made of carbon, wrapped with aluminum but they have tungsten disulfide, molybendum, or ceramic baked onto the aluminum to make it so slick that the lack of friction makes for faster arrow speeds? Perhaps ceramic arrows? Kevlar strings? Carbon fiber or ceramic bow cams similar to carbon fiber or ceramic brakes on race cars?
Shit Mac, just come to Australia, $5k gone just like that 😂
I would like to see them figure how to make it easier for an archer to pull back 70lbs for all us OG's with bad shoulders to continue to shoot.
Premium cam bearings that are weather proof. Should be an option because the ones now are trash.
For the higher price the bow should be fully fitted to customer. No cam
Adjustments so you get most performance out of every cam. 1/8 increments of cam sizes. Custom ata and brace height. Cerokate the cams like xpedition did.
In the end of day it would be hard to justify the price. It works with rifles because your capable of making 1000yd shots rather than 300yd. With a bow your still shooting a deer at 20
A lot if what makes a high end rifle like say a blaser high end isn't special materials per se. Its Gucci materials like specialty woods with emaculate finish, old style blue like slow rust, finer machining and attention to detail. Rounding of edges, little details add up. Optics are another thing after 1000 dollars it takes a lot of money to get little bit nicer or another small feature. I get it though. What your looking for is a luxury product. I work in the gun business so I get it trust me.
Xpedition is making an alloy bow currently. Stronger and lighter than the carbon bows.
Gyroscope? The big missing thing in archery is that we don't have the equivalent of a benchrest. Benchrest being steady, but fired like a human is firing it (versus a leadsled or a hooter shooter). This hits us in two ways. Nobody know what we are getting in improvements, as we can't really test them. Someone passes you that 20 grand Blaser, at least you can determine if for the dough it shoots as well as a 500 dollar Savage. The second thing we are missing is field stabilization. With rifles you can gain accuracy from a tree, the ground, by spooning with another marine, or shooting off sticks. Archery so binds up your body position it is hard to do something like shooting sticks where you can slap the rifle down, and yet you can contort to redirect the point of aim because, some new body position won't change your back tension or draw length.
These issues would be easy to work out. All we need is a rested position stage, if it doesn't already exist (I don't follow competitions closely enough). And here is the pay-off: More shooters. Over the years guys like to shoot off rests, bipods, and barackade positions. The art of offhand, and all the other positions has really been pushed to the edge. But more people will do archery if there was a way to cheat it. People don't like working to master rifle shooting, they want easy results. Same thing with archery. The compound created an explosion, but it is still based largely on a crazy standing position form of shooting.
I 100% support this because it wouldn't be my company funding this idea. It's similar to DARPA who develops technology that is consistently 20-25 years ahead. Eventually that technology is no longer cost prohibitive and makes its way to the public market.
Trickle down technology is "a thing", as I'm sure you know...that being said, other than your gyroscope ideas, we'd have to have access to the version of the Periodic Table that is used in Area 51.
Back to the gyroscope. What you're on to here is combining existing technologies; think ICBM, and minor corrections for poor release. Fun topic!
I like your brainstorming idea of a $5000 bow... The first thing is; What makes a $5000 rifle? A SS or Chrome Moly with a basic profile & no threads $550or less. Add fluting, Cerekote or Cryo or Melonite that will add to the price. Carbon fiber barrels run $660++. Then there is; What caliber, riffling. twist & process of rifling? NightForce or Swarovski more money. Might add a muzzle brake...Now the labor; Your gunsmith will cut the threads. Ream the cartridge of the round you want and add freebore. Match the barrel & bolt(to the thousandths) to the receiver. Maybe, add or subtract a little to the profile of the barrel &/or stock for fit. Then glass bed the rifle. Super custom would be to create a wood stock form a shaped block of wood.
So, what would a $5000 bow be like. Not sure? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Xpedition x-series from 21 and now the xlite from 23 both use maginite alloy. I had the x-series...very light!
Ok so sorry think that if there was some type of fluid like oobleck that has pockets in the riser I think that it has potential to dampen vibrations. I’m not a scientist but I think it would work
From what i know(speaking with sales reps from another company). There is a bow company that has an active patent of gyroscopic technology on a bow. So maybe Brandon is in kahoots and knows more than he’s saying 🤷🏽♂️
Why couldn’t they do some kind of a gear reduction system in the cams so it would multiply your draw weight many times over and that would create insane speeds.
Matthews makes $5,000 bridge lock stabilizers....🤣🤣🤣🤣
they have these things called carbon fibre risers...... titanium would be heavier and cost a ridiculous amount more for no advantage, not just the material cost, the machining cost. Worked in mechanical engineering for over 25 years and mostly as a machinist, you want a titanium riser someone would make it but you going down a rabbit hole where you would be lucky to get your desired bow for under $15,000. You want it lighter? maybe beryllium alloy, but good luck getting any machinist to make one with that. Not trying to be negative but high grade aluminium and c/f are used for a very good reason.
The recurve folks have ILF Bows. Which is basically a standard which different manufactures make limbs or risers that are interchangeable. So for compounds
imagine the riser from say APA with a integrated winch for tree stand hunting, matched up to the new Phase 4 limb set up from Mathews or Bow Techs dead lock system with cams form Hoyt and strings from Catfish or whom ever you wanted to get your parts from. The key thing is they are all built to a certain set of standards which make them interchangeable so you could easily customized your own set up. A variety of riser lengths, a variety of limb weights/sizes/ materials. Yes more complicated but you could make as cheap or expensive bow as you like. Would be interesting to see where that pushes the creative juices.
My mind goes to setup. Lights are cheap. Why couldn't we have lasers that come out and light perfect center from the riser and berger hole so you know exactly where to put your d-loop & arrow rest?
I machined some mandrels for a company that made heart implants quite a few years back. And the material in these heart implants was called Nitinol nickel titanium (aka memory wire). The consistency of the recoil and spring rate of this material is literally, medical grade... I had a thought once that if limbs could be made from this ultra light weight material, that had super precise rates of bound and rebound that it could be used for limbs. I searched hard and long for companies that offered this material in bar stock that would be able to be machined. But to no avail I couldn't find anything of the kind.
Durability... across the board. And just once, I want to deal with quivers aren't plastic POS.
Company called Tree limb makes decent quivers, they should be hired as consultants.
Xpedition just released their new bow. New Material. Check it out if you have not yet.
Idk if you know what a third world looks like. Maybe.
But I like this idea of a gyroscope, it would help with movement and balance I believe. If it was battery operated they could build it into the riser.
If you google you will find gyros used to stabilize video cameras, now it mostly in aircraft as brushless motor gimbals and in camera stabilization have taken over for small cameras. for a bow or rifle I cant think of a reason they would not work, they would be heavy... that weight spinning at high RPP is what gives the stabilizing force. brushless motor gimbals wont work, you would need the bow in a balanced cradle..you will get mostly these when you google I dont know, it would be cool but also not really archery.... like standing vs shooting from a bench, 2 very different sports.
A Smart Bow concept would be nice. We have the technology in cars and firearms already. Here is the idea..... You have a bow and it is set for you, but I pick it up, and it is set for me as well. It could be fingerprint, or perhaps a chip in the arrow to let the bow know who is shooting it. :)
Also, isn't that what happened with like the Mathews Safari
One up Mathews, 12 limbs
Or a bow that floats in the air silently and follows you in the woods. And just by reading your thoughts it shoots whatever critter you choose.
I quit shooting archery in 1987 and just got back into it this year so my V3X feels like what you're describing compared to my 1987 PSE.
I think bow manufacturers are further ahead in technology than they let on. But why jump ahead 10 years when that’s 10 years of incremental changes and profit between now and then?
I have a friend who is an engineer at Toyota. He said they currently work on model development at a minimum of 10 years out. He said all Tesla did was jump ahead of the curve pushing every one else to skip several production models
I like the way this guy thinks not 5000$ but he’s onto something!!! I loved my Mathew’s monster with the 5 inch brace height but it had shitty cams and I messed up my arm and it had 80# limbs on it. I pulled it back and it jumped because the cams are aggressive and the string slipped of the cam. The cams were too thin!
Mini jet engine at the back of the arrow that would be ignited at release and could propel the arrow 3-400 yards on a flat trajectory at top speed? Just spitballing here.
I’m going to steal your idea about hoping the comment section will reach the right people…but I would like to see you on a Joe Rogan podcast.
Chameleon colorings. We have plastics that change color as you add cold water, so let’s see camo color shift on powder coatings
Built in hog lights ( hate the buttons on aftermarket screw in lights you have to run cables … sucks )
Call it a … Texas edition. Whataburger/ buccees/ Alamo color options. It will sell
Riser material is one thing I've thought about numerous times. I don't know what kind of aluminum all the different companies are using but I know there are extremely strong, lightweight alloys available that are used all the time in the firearms industry. Use an alloy to make the most rigid riser on the market, lighter than the lightest carbon. I'm sure it could be done. Also, I feel like no one ever talks about arrows. Everyone seems to be focused on the bow itself but I never hear anyone talk about experimenting with different materials for arrows. Obviously aluminum has already been tried but what about titanium? Would it bend the same way aluminum does? There again, some obscure alloy that no one knows about. There has to be something out there worth experimenting with that could be better than carbon. Speaking of weird alloys, the new Xpedition bows look nice.
Hear me out.
A bow with a 40-50lb draw. You get it to full draw then hit a thumb switch, then little electric servo motors crank down the limb bolts to 90-100lbs, but you’ve got the letoff so it doesn’t have that much of a felt change. You fire and let go of the switch and the motors back out again.
Servos or stepper motors on CNC machines can be accurate to .0001” or better so it shouldn’t effect the tune.
I could see this appearing on xbows in the near future tbh.
I love the ideas and totally agree. I think the bottleneck will be local game agencies. What will they allow. I can’t comprehend even now why let-off % are a thing they govern. Why make me less effective?
40" carbon bow is gunna get you to 3k w/ high end accessories your pretty much there
Yes I've been waiting for a video from you!!!
How about a dual cam system that allows you to draw the bow with almost no weight. Then at full draw the cam adjusts to say 75 pounds- or higher. you would be able to get smaller or weaker hunters the ability to have more KE.
I can build a $5000 bow in a heart beat, mathews 33 phase 4, the mathews stablizers, a few weights, high end release, axcel sight, ultriview sight, hamskie rest and peep, boom 5-6k bow
I do like your motivation to advance the archery technology so it eventually trickles down to benefit the whole community and the gyroscope idea does sound pretty dang cool. I think manufacturers often have to walk a fine line between advancing technology in bows and keeping archery, archery. (if that makes sense)
Patrick, your comments resonate with me mate. At what point does it stop being organic and becomes clinical. I like that it takes hours of time at the range fine tuning the bow, but more so me, to make a good shot.
Great to see you back brother! Hoping we get more content now that internet will make life easier 🤙🏼
I would buy it.
An electronic cam brake system that still allows the arrow to still be released but at the same time slows down the cam down such that it completely kills the hard stop vibration and thus 100% kills the noise of the bow.
Imagine shooting a bow that is truly 100% silent… imagine having an arrow that is 100% silent….
That would nullify all arguments about FPS etc. the animal would literally never know what hit it.
That’s the Holy Grail of archery in my opinion… 0 detection.
all carbon, all inline carbon components, a hand warmer grip, and a gyroscope with a bow that doesn't need a press to tune and work on it
be pretty cool to have a vibranium riser, it would take the vibration and transfer the energy to the arrow lol. I like where your mind is.random thoughts. merry Christmas and happy new year to you and your family. keep up the good work.
This was a great video and gave me ideas on some projects🤔 never give a mechanical engineer a good idea. Either the engineer ruins the idea or the idea ruins the engineer😅
Hell I’m almost half way there with my $1999 Xpedition X- Lite 33 I just ordered. Sooner or later folks are going to draw a line for price on hunting bows. The average Joe has to work a bunch of OT just to afford a $1200 bare bow let alone a $5000 one. The current crop of flagship bows are about maxed out technologically. I can’t see any jaw dropping innovations coming about anytime soon.
I know you don’t do trad, but you should look at Backwood Composites. He is using his aerospace engineering experience designing ILF bows…
They should make a bow that shoots out wolverine’s claws 😂😂😂😂😂😂
🏹🎯
I managed the composites mfg processes for a certain bow manufacturer. There are certain hurdles that bow manufacturers face vs firearm manufacturers; the biggest being market size. There is a much larger market in the firearm world, even within niches (long range hunters are also often in competitive shooting, tacticalshooting, etc) than archery. Archery manufacturers often come close to losing their shirts at times due to devlopment and mfg costs vs revenue. There's definitely more exotic materials and technologies available for archery, but the reward for using those things is still limited to the same small pool of consumers. I think if archery manufacturers could figure out a way to make bows more modular, then you'd see an aftermarket for that stuff. But, for most people the bow you buy is the bow you get and most folks have the pro shop set it up for you (which archery mfgs still have a pro shop based business model; they don't want you biying a bow online and setting it up yourself). Where as with my 10k precision rifle, I can throw on a Proof barrel, I can throw on a Bartlein barrel, I can put it in one of 20 diferent chassis, or 1 of 50 different stocks, I could buy a Terminus action or a Zermatt action and build from there, etc.
But due to that you see way more innovation in materials for sports like golf, shooting, or skiing than you do for archery.
A bow shooting 2 arrows at the same time I think it's possible
With carbon bows being at a premium for those who desire the feel and weight advantages, how long until companies move to carbon hand held releases, no more cold to touch and has that carbon premium feel as well.
Sounds good who has the money to buy something like that I agree they need to come with something new
I am surprised that there is not a bow riser where the grip mounted around bearings so that the grip can rotate with not much friction around the vertical axis. It seems that this would eliminate hand torque and everyone would shoot better. Easy old tech with big potential improvement.
It's an interesting thought experiment but it'd be hard to convince people to buy a $5000 bow every year or two. This is what keeps the bow companies alive. Gun manufacturers have to come up with new calibers to try and entice people to buy a new gun, that's all they have. If I buy a new gun my grand kids can use it and little will have changed in that time.
Just my two cents keep producing these good vids. 👍
I get what you're saying but damn
I want a pin that lights up when the bow is level. That’s all.
Can i send you a p.m. im been thinking alooooot about gyro technology, it could be ground breaking.. i want see were this is going, speed of the gyro, weight,angles..
I think the biggest hurdle is resale and intrinsic value. A $20000 rifle will still be worth $20000 in five years. A $1000 bow in five years is worth $200 at best. Archery is niche hobby and the average bowhunters arent spending five grand on a bow in mass. Especially every year. Same reason not everyone drives a Ferrari. It would be unaffordable to the masses.
Tire $5k bow will be probably $1k in 5 years given if the company does not release new bow every year with same tech slightly different look. But the $20k gun will be $20k gun 10 years from now or go up in value is a fallacy unless it is discontinued and is a good quality gun. If manufacturers still make them why would I pay 20k for it unless it was during pandemic, but how often something like that happened?
Unaffordable to the masses isn't the idea. You're right about resale value but there would be a market for the type of bow he's talking about. And it may take something like a super premium bow with a few wild modifications. To push bow makers to innovate past what they are currently able to. He's right that bow technology has plateaued with only micro adjustments and improvements. Not that that's bad. They have just reached the height of what they can do with bow technology at this time.
A $1300 rifle WILL be worth 1300 in five years because if you want that rifle 5 years later the cost has risen for a new one. So, you can get your money back. But, Im done with $1200 bows and cant sell them fours years later. Its totally throwing your money down the toilet because nothing really different has come along except little tweeks and bells and whistles. Now a custom recurve or longbow is a different story and they have no aerospace engineering and redicilous priced accesories. So, i guess it all comes down to marketing and if i drink the cool-aid or not with these bows.
Actually I don’t know that I totally agree with a $20k rifle you can resale for $20k. When you get to that level I think you definitely are going to lose some money. Now the principle behind what you are saying I understand though.
This isn’t a concept for the masses…that’s the point.
"Now I can watch my GIANT ASS 75" tv...." 🤣😂 I love it!!
Titanium weighs twice what aluminum does, and is stronger, but not really the pathway to lightness.
Like Bill Winke says , "Always Dream Big". You are doing just that. Maybe you would still need stabizers to counter any vibration , maybe not given your dream bow . I wonder how big the market would be for such a technologically advanced bow . ? ?
I have said for years that titanium cams would be a great upgrade. Stronger, lighter, almost impossible to bend.
The real question is would it have enough flex and not retain some of the shape of being bent over and over
Titanium is not lighter but is stronger. You may be able to make a cam lighter by using the titanium and using less material. But that seems like that would be marginal improvement compared to cost.
I machined titanium knives for quite a while for Rick Hinderer, so I understand VERY well how titanium would work for cams….there would literally be zero qualities that were not superior to aluminum other than the price. You could use less material in titanium, and be stronger than aluminum…so you could absolutely make a titanium cam lighter and stronger than aluminum….plus if an aluminum cam gets whacked…it WILL bend, where titanium will be much less likely to bend. Titanium is more ‘flexible’ than aluminum. It is kinda ‘gummy’ when you machine it…so it isn’t quite as easy to machine…but it would be great for cams. Better than aluminum.
Titanium has a MUCH greater ‘memory’….than aluminum, so it would take the stresses over time, way better than aluminum.
The way I could see paying $5,000 for a bow like you would for a gun as you say is the bow would have to holds it's value like a gun does 10-20 years from now
I think practice and commitment will always outweigh technology. I choose not to hunt with a rifle but todays bows in the right hands are comparable at a 100 yards. I think hunting skills are being lost because of the long range accuracy of todays bows. Bow hunting for me is the game of getting close to the animals.
Just my opinion.
Love and respect for you Brandon. It's good to see you back. Hopefully with in home internet we'll be seeing a lot more.
Thank you.
I understand the Gyroscope idea completely. They make them for boats (like you mentioned) but the only thing is with a boat, you want to put them roughly 1/3 of the way up moving towards the bow (front) of the boat. Im not sure where the center of gravity is on a bow (im thinking close to the grip in the riser as it would make the most sense) but that might be something that comes into play where its located depending on riser shape. Seakeeper is the leader in this technology for the marine world and makes some really cool demos to see on their RUclips channel.
The Achilles heel of Compound Bows is the Cable Rod (friction).
But even true Shoot-throughs like the Darton Vegas; OK Archery; or Gear Head lines still don't exceed standard speeds...
Jorge Sprave engineered two compounds to fire Repeating Arrows, this was a true innovation!
Air Bows show us that arrows have a Maximal Velocity.
I'd like to see 80# become the new 60#, with even 100# Compounds - and the shafts strong enough to suit!
I think the gyroscope idea is very interesting for target application, and great for hunting as long as it is quiet. The biggest issue I see from a physics standpoint is that once triggered, it will fight required adjustments just as much as it fights unwanted movement. I think this could be overcome.
Lol. Stick to the corny bit coin and house flipping scheme videos
@@HawgHunter63 Hater
Bow performance hasn’t really changed for 10 plus years. The Bowtech destroyer was making 350 fps when it was released and Hoyt’s carbon element/matrix bow are about 12 years old, and the produced the same speed as todays carbons. Mathews had a couple high end bows the safari and wake. High country archery produced a 370 fps bow about 15 years ago.
Other than materials not advancing, another consideration for lack of development could be the perception of archery gear being primitive, and the potential to run into legal issues as the technology advances.
If you want a precision rifle type bow, buy a target bow with hunting weight limbs and camo.
Dude !! I totally agree and am on board with advancing Innovations and building concept HIGH end bows even if its in limited numbers annually. Lets go folks ! I love this shit !
Titanium should definitely be a thing. There’s a guy who was in a NASA program of some kind if I remember correctly. And he was selling titanium hardware and bearings for bows, and allegedly it changed the harmonic vibrations of the entire unit. Allegedly made it quiet lighter and performed better. I wanna see a titanium riser. And I also wanna see speed increases.
Dorge Huang… Firenock