Weird Train Airplane experiment
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- Опубликовано: 11 апр 2024
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First to like 0:25
First
Cool vid
New Galaxy Express 999🖖🖖🖖 coooool
Very informative experiment and coverage! Thank you for sharing our mission Peter!
If anyone's interested in getting the full picture of issues like the one in this video, check out the link in the description and let us know if you have any questions.
the first iteration = essentially chinese dragon kite
Rayquaza
I liked that one best
That’s exactly what I was thinking
Shenron
with motors on it
You know you have to build a LARGE flying dragon now, don't you?
I was getting big Colgera vibes (Tears of the Kingdom)
that movement was so smooth right?! Imagine if each section had flaps or controls
Yes! And it has to breath fire.
@@Sandux93069420 CONTROLS
Came here to say the same thing
People in the first car would be scared to death, while everyone vomiting in the last car would welcome death
i would do it as extrim sport as long as you have a think that can carry you
3rd class steerage
LOL. Leave the kids in the last car and tell them they're having fun. Mom and Dad now relax in the first car.
"...and the motor fell off" is something i feel like we shouldnt hear that much, but is definitely a common occurrence in this hobby 😂
You should make a V2 where the carriages can be released individually and each one is a glider controlled by a different person! Love the channel
the idea of slip coaches in this context is crazy. nice idea ( I work with great western railway locos and roiling stock)
Dang it you beat me to it haha I was gonna say add servos to the second cart so it glides down safely instead of plummetting into oblivion.
That comment is a bit scary without context :D
That would be an insane platform for long range OWA UAV deployment. Have the 'engine' car towing the OWA craft with the (relatively) expensive long range comms and power packs. Give the carriages just enough DV for terminal adjustments and just enough comms to communicate with the engine car then have them glide to target. You could detach carraiges as you go to service targets of opportunity or all in one go at the primary target to overwhelm defensive systems. Have the engine RTB to pick up another batch of carriages with your expensive batteries and flight controller intact.
sounds like an elaborate military drone concept
As a mechanical engineer, I have only one recommendation; add springs and dampers!
I think the swaying can easily be mitigated with some damping, while not losing the train-like flexibility.
As an aerospace engineer, I say add a stability augmentation system.
@BottleOfCoke, you know, that makes a lot of sense. In flight, you could make it a lot more rigid
I was thinking a caboose with some extra drag could help pull the links into more stable tension. Maybe with a spoiler on an rc axis so its taughtness can be varied.
As a non-engineer, I wonder what the benefits of having so many degrees of freedom really are. I understand why the cars need to be able to have a different pitch angle than the tractor, but why not use two couplings to limit freedom to pitch only?
You know how you know someone's an engineer? They will tell you.
If the cars break away, have a set of mini wings pop out, that pitch the nose up slightly, for a glider to the ground. The pin release could retract into the first car, spring activated, that controls the wings…
"Complete dodo..." "I'm here to help" Siri responds to dodo 💀
I love the idea of a plane pulling a second carriage, touching the runway at some place, discarding the carriage and then just continuing on to another destination
A bit more complicated way of dragging gliders behind planes like it was done in WW2 to get soldiers behind ennemy lines using disposable unpowered gliders
and maybe have landing gears in sync with the box cars
@@sultanhusnoo8552 I can see the future where we have glider tickets on budget airlines. rofl
@@worawatli8952less can go wrong landing a glider
I'd probably actually fly in one
Train kids and plane kids can set their differences aside to appreciate this video in harmony.
Birds use their tail feathers for drag. Add a parachute at the end. You probably don't need any wings on the passenger cars, since the u-joints will keep them oriented similar to the engine.
Now make a flying submarine 😂
I think the main problem is caused by connecting the carriages together from the front and back, this sets up the pitch feedback loop instability, where the leading carriage pitches up pushing the following carriage nose down etc along the line.
If instead you connected them from CG to CG down each side, like a team of horses pulling a carriage, they would follow each other without inducing the pitch oscillation.
Ooh what a thoughtful insight. Hope you get pinned!
I like it but I think it might not be very train-like.
But that’s not a train….🤷♂️
I'm also insanely curious what would happen should he add a follower engine like you see on typical train setups. Obviously in this case both would be forward, but he said in the video that they weren't flying good. I think adding a second set of engines somewhere could be good.
@@scoobertmcruppert2915 in what way is it not, changing how trains are linked together doesnt suddenly make it not a train
You could make a pretty cool Asian dragon plane with this kind of design
EXACTLY what I was thinking!
Came here to say this
Could probably make one based on Haku from Spirited Away.
I was about to say, it flows like an Asian Dragon. Kinda ironic seeing as the inspiration was from Japanese bullet trains
Dragon train plane ...
Video Idea. 2.0 consider Delta Wings and and Control surfaces on every segment each controlled by gyros.
For landing on the tracks use a runway with a funnel at the end.
To Put less Stress in the engine maybe Put smaller engines in every segment. Modern electric trains have many electric Motors 🤓
If you need help, I’m your man
My therapist: Terrifying spinal bone dragons aren't real. They can't hurt you.
Peter Sripol:
Still more feasible than the Hyperloop ever was 🤣
Why was the hyperbool less feasible?
@@Paper246giant vacuum tube is very prone to accidents
@@not2hot99
Big suck.
No emergency exits, no fire control. Deathtrap
@Paper246 it's difficult to maintain a giant vacuum tube.
The challenge would be landing it back onto the train tracks.
But he did
@@brandonm1088 No he didn't. He took off from train tracks, not land onto them.
@@Eidolon1andOnly 15:25 then what's this
@@brandonm1088 your not wrong but also
@@brandonm1088 Wheels on tracks, perfectly aligned. Come on now, you know what the OP meant.
"Why does optimal public transport always evolve into trains"
Peter: hold my beer
Next, try to get like 50 feet of track flying in a line, and have a normal (lightweight) train drive on that track.
The idea of flying people to different destinations without the need to actually stop or land at those is definitely an interesting innovation! 😂
You just gave me an idea. If we could build an infrastructure of skyhook tow lines we could have a shuttle system like this where you hook a glider via tow line to the skyhook, get towed to a point near your destination, disconnect and glide to the airport. You could even have multiple glider shuttles that disconnect at different stops.
✝️🩸1 Thessalonians 4 KJV 🎺🌥️
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Romans 5 KJV 🩸
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
@@clintonleonard5187 or drop them on water
@@clintonleonard5187 I already left a separate comment about this, but that idea is very close to the invention in the book "Tom Swift and his Sky Train" :)
Crap Elon is going to see your comment and steal the idea!
From towing trailers I know that drag is actually your friend. The more aft drag the cars supply, the more stable your tow vehicle is. Consider adding a little aft weight, countered with a larger wing, for the "caboose." Or even try a small motor on the very last car that has reverse thrust. All you want is enough to keep the trailer behind you. From the video, it appears that each individual car has is own CG, so making these changes should not hurt too bad. You may also find that overall the plane needs to be heavier with bigger engines. Add length to your cars to reduce your oscillation. Make them twice as long. It won't solve all the oscillation issues, but it may settle some.
or put the batteries in the last car?
@@JeffreyOller It wouldn't work too well considering the fact that he can release the cars from the main engine. Unless you put the main power in the last car and then a small battery in the front just so you can land it.
@@natperXD Absolutely right. Those two features wouldn't really be compatible.
*sits down in a train* “Please fasten your seatbelts for takeoff”
I think to get better handling, you want to give all the carriages a bit of dihedral, and for all the wings to be pitched up at least 5 degrees to start with - if you look at it leaving the ramp, you notice all the cars suddenly drop as they get airborne, because in forward movement none of the wings are producing good lift, and they have to droop first before they do.
You probably also want a lot more stiffness in the roll between each carriage - it's clearly quite bendy in the large model compared to the first, and this might be allowing some adverse yaw-roll coupling to cause bad oscillations.
It's a flying dragon! 🐉 A great mythical beast! "It's a dragon!, It's a dragon!" 😂
Seriously, looks like one of those Chinese dragons flying in the sky.
The turbulence is insane 💀
Fr 💀💀💀
The best evidence for what is happening is as it leaves the end of rhe runway/ramp. Each wing is on the same "plane" in the airstream. The same thing is happening with your vertical stabilizers. Each wing and stabilizer section has increasing ammounts of low pressure and turbulance to deal with which in turn means that the function of each surface has reduced effect. As the train gets longer, it has less ability to create the drag it needs to stabilize. Putting dampers between the cars will magnify this problem making the whole plane generate less lift.
The solution i will leave you to discover, but there will be deminishing returns on each car as the train gets longer.
Hope this helps, but please keep iterating. This was a fun project to watch.
1. Sway reduction. Try rubber bands on the 4 corners between each car, loose/non-taught at rest, but when the bend begins, it is immediately at tension.
2. Booster motors in each car. Maybe not as powerful as the main motors of the lead car, but any sort of small booster on each car would help alleviate the drag. Any aerospace engineer would know better than I, but I’d assume as long as the rear motors aren’t equal or stronger than the lead motors there shouldn’t be any issues with the trailing cars pushing the lead too much.
Maybe you could try adding a gyro stabiliser to the last car somehow, completely independent of the electronics in the first car, to counteract the yawing motions and the oscillations
Or, if you did 10 cars, maybe have a gyro every few cars
Who need moving control surfaces when you can just bend the whole plane and do air drifting.
@@jwalster9412 snake plane!
Came to comment the same thing
or even adding some dampers between each car, like real high speed trains do
Every car powered with control surfaces, programmed with delay so they they follow in line would be insane.
When everyone forgets EMU trains exist and think there has to be a locomotive and so they miss out on cool ideas like this :(
I was thinking this too. And to add the effect of drag on the main engine, each following car would be powered down slightly from the one in front of it. Essentially taking the majority of the unpowered load off the main engine but still allowing for some resistance to pull in a straight line.
I think if you run string or something through the end of your wings loosely so they can detach but they will also have stability
I love what Sripol Industries have come up with this time!
Flying train, heck yeah!
It moves a bit like those dragons over at cultural Chinese displays.
maybe dampers on the couplings for sideways movement... or mass/fluid damper inside the last car?.... or maybe a way to stiffen the whole train once airborne :) I love trains
I'm thinking about thin carbon rods, or if you've ever used goldenrod for control surfaces. You could insert or retract those semi rigid rods to control stiffness.
The tail wagging issue is turbulence off the previous wings. Model it in software or in a wind tunnel.
Now you need to be able to land it back onto the tracks and operate it like a train.
I envision the landing "strip" as a funnel shape. It would need to be long and wide, tapering gently to the width of the rail. This would reduce the accuracy needed to land and, hopefully, gently and accurately guide the vehicle to the correct alignment on the rails.
Practical? Nope but fun!
The rail gauge needs to be wider to provide better roll stability. The side surface area and the flight surfaces are providing lift when there's a crosswind as well. A wider gauge will help there.
Deeper rail connection with the wheels might help too (the wheels will ride lower in the rail providing more resistance to rising over the rail when there's a crosswind).
Maybe land into maglev mode and then settle down onto the tracks
Possibly. It may also be an instability just of the configuration of the aircraft (ie it would persist even if none of the downwash from the wings affected the wings behind it). A small change in orientation of one section causes a larger change in orientation somewhere else and so on. Only way to really know is to model its control dynamics or throw it into a wind tunnel.
I can almost hear flight companies salivating at the idea of having "flying trains".
"Think of the amount of people we can fit in one fligh!?"
Give it a paint job like a dragon.
It would look so cool flying through the air!
What a fun experiment!!! You make it flexible, then of course there's going to be a tendency for it to porpoise like...a porpoise. It's going to do things that flags do in the wind. My only suggestions are:
1. Limit the range of flex at each joint, in each plane of freedom, to the minimum amount a train actually needs.
2. I wonder what happens if you move the wings of each boxcar to the front instead of the rear.
Maybe you could do something like a very slightly increasing drag with each car in the line, so the one in front always wants to go faster than the car behind it, holding tension between them at all times (more or less)? Just a thought. Great job as always!
This reminds me of glider towing, But in full scale, you'll have a pilot in both aircraft. This could work, but you would need a computer to constantly stabilize the cars in flight.
That was my immediate thought as well, you’ll need active stabilization for all the trailing cars/planes
Absolutely. The flying wing design had some serious stabilization issues until the computer era ... well uhm .. stabilized it. B2 spirit versus the Northrop flying wing.
Hmmm, a power source and gyro in each car with servos to manipulate the control surfaces could be the answer to a smooth ride in a 10 car plane/train.
Adding a failsafe glide landing protocol to the lead car would be pretty cool too. Detaching the cars and having them land safely is the next step.
For solving the power mid train issue, put motors with differential steering in the middle of rear of the train, albeit at a lower power level.
For super level idea: Have a receiver and a single solenoid in each carriage. When the 'eject' button is pressed, each carriage releases from the carriage in front and and releases it's own sprung canards to prevent the carriages from nose diving to the ground.
Wake turbulence?
How?!? The video came out 15 minutes ago and this comment is 7 hours ago
@@coolrex69 godem
@@coolrex69 member ship early access most likely
@@RougeCheeseit ah, I thought he was a time traveller or something
why? is turbulence late for work?
Nothing would delight me more than to fly on a train plane with detachable rear sections and a ride straight out of hell. Not to mention the knuckle gripping landing where smashing into the dirt with train wheels wondering where my sanity is. But it was a hell of a fun video seeing you making this work. Thanks.
As if slip carriages weren't already sufficiently accident-prone.
Peter's so creative with his ideas. I don't think he's interested if it's not a big challenge. I dig it. My ADHD needs another fix.
Maybe another HUGE vertical stabilizer on the trailing car along the centerline could stop the wobbling?
Increasing the size of the wings for each car as you move to the back of the train could help lift the tail and keep the whole setup from being tail heavy. Each car having smaller wings then the engine seems to have negatively impacted lift.
Idk just a few ideas.
I feel like to really make this work well (especially if you want to have a lot more cars), the cars themselves need some active controls in order to stabilize them. Passive drag alone can only do so much when perturbations in one car build up along all others following them.
one idea that comes to mind: every car has servos for flaps. no engine, etc, but controllable flaps and a flight controller.
in theory, even engines could be interesting.
I'm thinking add an accelerometer and a simple microcontroller/flightcontroller to each wagon and try to auto-level each wagon individually. Turning might become harder without coordination, but that should result in an overall more stable train(If you can get the PIDs to work correctly - Probably need to tune them for every wagon. Maybe just add a few wagons with active control, maybe even an independent set of motors).
I just wanted to suggest the same !
It´s so evident.
Greetings from an other continent !
🙂
probably doesn’t need it for every car either. Could probably have it on just every second car and the last one
I feel like you'd need to run this in a simulation, and train a neural net to control active surfaces on each wagon.
That would very likely endup way more unstable, connecting multiple self-regulated parts is very tricky.
Great idea! It could be a train boat could work even better. It could be a bullet train-boat because you won’t have any wake from the cars behind the lead. So it could be super fast and efficient. Maybe even set it up with hydrofoils or ground effect wings.
I agree with a couple people on here... Connections at the CG, possibly adding a small canard to the front of each pulled car so when it separates, it becomes more of a glider than a brick, individual car separation... possibly adding a controller module to each car with a pitch/roll/yaw/ compensator from a drone to control the surfaces better.... the last would also give the opportunity for individual operators to fly each car as it separates... I think that would be a really worthy idea to test... king of like adding multiple gliders behind a tow plane... which they already do... have each individual controller automatically keep it stable and the "pilot" for each car gives it direction when it goes to glider mode.
This, but make all of the flight controls work by pivoting on the train car connections. The position of the cars will dictate the flight and eliminate the twerking.
Flying snake plane. Like the gliding snakes irl.
"this is your captain speaking, please buckle up as we're about to enter some turbulence"
Passengers on the last car: "We'Re AbOuT tO wHaT?"
you can modify it by adding rod below connecting all the carts together as one piece (but it won't help in turning rails)
I agree but like put swivel links on the ending of each rod stick under the wings. So it can turn on rails an stay straight
@@user-nx8zr7ec8x thats better! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Someone has probably suggested this but as each car gets further from the engine, give the wings an increased upward vertical tilt. You may need to increase the wing length proportionally to keep the lift equal. The increase in drag is compensated for by increased stability. Just a thought.
Finally! I've been suggesting this for ages!
Also, the last car should have a vertical tailfin.
The wing stabilizers on the cars should get closer and closer together the further back you go from the engine. That should mitigate the serpentine swaying while in flight.
You're other right track, but there are a couple more elements at play here. (Pardon the punn)
A stabilizer hitch helps with trailer sway. some sort of resistance at the coupler to reduce movement might help. Cool experiment!
i love how peter refuses to leave the electro swing phase in the past, electro swing slaps
two ideas I got from this video:
1. WW2 style glider behind rc cargo plane that could then be controlled to a landing by a buddy
2. rocket launched airplane out of a tube, with wings that pop out after launch
Now do the same thing but each car releases one by one and flys for itself after.
When your airplane IS a snake.
We need to develop this idea.
Try to make the tail of the airplane a convex sphere and the nose of the first car a convex sphere to improve the overall aerodynamics and at the same time the separated wagon will have a nose fairing.
Also on each car should be installed aileron control drive and stabilization system that this system tries to stabilize the flight of the entire air train. It is possible to place only servo drives in the cars, and control from the airplane.
You HAVE to see if this can be tandemized and scalable!
Instead of increasing engine power to add more cars, add a second “engine plane” after 5 cars and add more cars behind it. Having a larger craft behind them might also stabilize the first set of cars.
Maybe put extra large wings on the last car, it might act like tail feathers.
See how many sets of trains (engine + 4-5 cars) you can have flying in tandem.
Exactly my thoughts.Also i dont see why it has to be landed on train tracks and with engines capable of changing to VTOL you wont even need a whole runway to do your thing
honestly despite how utterly ridiculous and impractical this is, its great to watch you try an idea, iterate and eventually achieve something that sort of works, the whole process is so cool :)
That train looks pretty plane 😅
A train airplane is a perfect situation to try an oblique wing configuration! The wings can be pivoted inward/parallel along the body of the train while on the ground then fully perpendicular when ready to lift off! Multiple oblique wings along the length of the train in a zig zag configuration during level flight for maximum stability. Perhaps locking mechanisms in between the cars to lock them in place and keep them straight after take-off. Possibly, a pusher motor in the rear car after locking.
If you make a V2 You should make a funnel type system and land and redirect the train onto the tracks
Even though it flies so chaotic, I love it. There's something majestic about it, looks like a dragon.
Needs way more dihedral on the cars
and maybe less angle on the fins. maybe a few degrees on the first car, and then increasing it slightly on the following cars.
This was awesome and hilarious!
Fantastic job dropping the cars right on the camera!
Loosing cars in flight gives me a cool idea for the commercial version. The train doesn’t need to land to drop off passengers and cargo. Just uncouple the last car and let it glide to the airport. The rest of can continue to the next drop off destination.
ok but using this design to make an eastern style dragon would look REALLY cool
Elevator stabilizers on the cars too. Remember a Kite needs the tail to have the right weight. Make the last car have weight in the rear.
Passively actuated control surfaces on the cars: gimbal joint left/right actuates side rudder, up/down actuates height rudder. No servos or gyros needed, just mechanical links from the joint to the rudders. Add dampeners if you're feeling fancy.
You can keep the vertical stabs and put in centering springs between segments.
If you design it with some jointed beam that is rigged with cables you might even be able to use all the cars for steering. Maybe ball joints, with a cable/pulley system that runs on all four sides of the beam. Though I think the issue is finding a good way to rig it in this condition
It's exactly these crazy ideas that got him to where he is now with over 2 million subscribers.
Completely right and more than deserved =)
Really cool project; seeing those dynamics is awesome, impressed you got it to fly.
I guess if each plane had its own control surfaces and gyro, and you did a few phd projects worth of control theory, you could get this thing to fly super elegantly.
We definitely need a dragon next! With slightly stiffer joints, maybe a thin carbon fiber rod from engine to last part, but most importantly steerable joints so the whole body can bend up and down and sideways, so you can replace yaw and elevator steering surfaces with that.
With strings running along all segments from front to back along the top and bottom and sides of the body, actuated by two servos.
That would be incredible!
You could have most cars without wings, just the front car with canards and motors a middle car with large wings and a tail section.
I NEED to see this with some sort of rig (like a funnel) that actually guides it onto the tracks upon landing. Rail-air-rail transport
What if every car had its own gyro and stabilisers?!
What would be really cool would be making each car independent when they're dropped - and then giving them all gliding ability, so that when you pressed the button or flicked the swich, it would just kinda evaporate into loads of little cars (it'd have varying coolness based on how many cars in the train)
Just the fact it flies amazes me. You are a genius. Maybe you can sell the design to stop all these train derailments.😂
Try adding a gyro and servos to the back car to try to stabilize it. Great build, keep building outside the box!
15:19 That shot from the tail cam seeing the cars each land one after another was hilarious.
Imagining the chaos if you were a passenger in that car had me rolling with laughter. Having your window be parallel with the ground 1 second before landing is so crazy.
@@clintonleonard5187 same lol
With enough Thrust anything will Fly. You can do this Peter
Each car needs to be able to fly on its own (CG and center of lift)…so they need a canard like the engine. Use a gyro or a mechanical coupling with linkages to operate flight controls on the car to keep it in line.
The only reason why it didn't work is because during flight you didn't lock links in between car. The reason why the links are flexible is for rails. In the air, you need to lock the links rigid.
Then it’s just a normal plane
Your hard work and modesty inspire the RUclips community. Congrats!
"hmm, how do i solve the 3 body problem?" For iteration 1. Its a double armed pendulum, a classic example of a chaotic system.
Keep up the builds lmao, and this reminded me of two things.
1. Some weird trains as planes mobile game that I forgot
2. An anime only those who love trains will know like me
We need more train content!!! This stuff is da bomb
super train megazord anyone?
You need a long CF rod running thru the full length of the train, with each unit free to swivel on the rod. The rod should be high as possible, _not_ on the center axis, and some dihedral in all the wings. The combined pendulum effect will give good roll stability.
An idea that I couldn't find already said, is to ush something such as rubber bands or some other form of elastic to give an element of rigidity whilst still being flexible. This would allow you to actually make changes to the flight surfaces that would not just be at the mercy of turbulence.
I want a cute+funny gf.
womp womp
Working on it wish me luck
Wanted gf, but got a bf…
@@KF99if can't find gf. Become the gf
@@ShinjiAyanami.i believe in you
you can look into war gliders that were pulled by a big plane and released over diferent locations with roops and equipment. They had a pilot but maybe some rudimentary autopilot can be implemented.
I think that you may need some kind of shock absorber type of mechanism to limit the amount of flex at the joins, still having the same range of motion but with more resistance to slow the whip/oscillation motion that you are having down the length of the train.
And/or setup each carriage as a glider with a fraction of the input factor that you have on the main engine's control surfaces. Like the ailerons only move half the deflection on the carriages that they move on the engine, this might allow it to move more in unison and less like a snake.
Reminds me of anime animation of Asian dragons in flight.
The non pulling cars could have downward facing fans or props, providing lift, and stability.
Programming a flight module to handle near real time variable adjustment would be a nightmare, or each cars taking data from the engine could autonomously make adjustments.
In the real world, shipping is under attack and high speed low altitude but stable aero-train could have a future.
One thing you could try to make it not wobble is to move the wings slightly forward on every car so the center of gravity isn’t off placed
I love how you almost hit the ground camera when dropping the cars at the end; unbelievable aim 🙂
Airplane towing is a kind of a well-known problem, WW2 personnel glider towing, ad banner towing, towing recreational gliders into the sky... But with the exception of the banner towing, the 'cars' all have independent control surfaces, unlike this one. Although there might also have been passive gliders being towed. They are usually connected to the towing plane by a long rope or a wire, not a tight coupling.
Part of the wobble might be from drag induced by the open space in between each car. What if instead of a single pin in open space connecting the cars, you have some flexible fabric (maybe like paper or something) that can connect the cars together. Like an articulated bus (as seen in Marvel’s Shang-Chi, or as seen in real life).