Do Kata Suck?

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  • Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025

Комментарии • 35

  • @chabaloo8855
    @chabaloo8855 Год назад +18

    Never understood those complains. Katas were initially, like you said, a way to give the martial art an aesthetic and a way to teach slowly. And it works. I do karate and I've had, at multiple times, done some movements from a kata without realising at first. But katas were not the essential of the learning, it was a base. Then katas evolved. It became a branch of martial art aside from fighting. They're still showing fighting techniques, but they're more focused on execution, power and rythm. Explaining why they multiplied. It's an art in the martial art which trains your body, because doing katas the right way is tough and exhausting. That's what people tend to forget or ignore. Not everything in martial arts must directly point or serve toward combat fighting. Katas and Kumite (fighting) share techniques and past, but evolved into two things with different purpose.

    • @chabaloo8855
      @chabaloo8855 Год назад +1

      Plus, for the fact that those who do katas and don't know what the moves they're doing are for... that may be true. With the popularity of martial arts that grew and the multiplication of dojos, quantity over quality became a thing. Fortunately, my dojo is part of a league where quality is awaited. I learned that every move of katas aren't always useful in combat exactly as they are. But you can always find a way to make them work. Finding a derivation needs knowledge of your martial art, fighting knowledge and imagination. That is called Bonkai, like you mentionned. I do sometime teach when my sensei can't or needs help. I like to tell that, as I learned, every move can be used in a way or another. You just have to come up with your solution. And if you struggle, you just have to ask someone more experimented so that they can give you their interpretation.

    • @AyeJordan7
      @AyeJordan7 16 дней назад

      @@chabaloo8855this type of thing is only a supplement imo,I believe the practicner should understand basic fighting first before he/she does any of this

  • @JohnGatesIII
    @JohnGatesIII Год назад +1

    I come to kata from an Okinawan Goju background (meaning we don't do 30 katas). I'll address kata as I see/understand it and kata as is seen in today's society.
    Kata as I see it: To test and earn your black belt, you have to show a mastery of the basics (at least a working knowledge in most styles). As most black belts are seen as instructors and instruct students from ALL walks of life (from kids - could be as young as 4 or 5 in some schools that are in it for money.....up to aged adults - I'm 54) you have to be able to teach very different people in very different ways. What MIGHT actually work for one person, say a 15-year-old 5ft 110lbs female, MAY not work for the 30-year-old 6ft 170lbs male (and vice versa). But you, as a black belt, have to be able to teach/instruct/mentor them both.
    A "Mastery" of the basics? Stances, blocks, strikes/punches, kicks, sweeps, throws, etc. etc. etc. ONE way to not only learn, but PRACTICE all of those techniques is through Kata. Even if you are only able to make it to one one-hour class a week, you can still practice at home by working through the kata you have learned (can be boring BUT effective). The other thing that kata teaches is flow of movement. Blocking - Striking (sometimes at the same time), stepping forward INTO your opponent, situational awareness (looking before you turn, etc.), A LOT of Kata is just a bunch of bunkai (self -defense techniques) strung together. Kata is also good at teaching a principal to a large group of people. With a quick glance, you can ensure that everyone is on the same sheet of music.
    Always remember, 100% of MMA and 99% of all "Street" fights start in the standing position.
    How kata is seen in today's society: Today's 15-30 year-olds can't even watch videos that are longer than 15 secs, I don't expect them to spend years learning and perfecting a Martial Arts. They want the reader's digest version. A lot of us that grew up in the 70s and 80s were allowed to get into martial arts because you would learn MORE than just fighting....discipline, honor, humility, respect, and on and on. We not only learned to block, kick and punch, but we learned history, a bastardized 2nd language and culture. Today, martial arts is broken down into it's basest of elements....."Combat". If MMA did anything to martial arts, it was to REMOVE the honor, humility and respect aspects of it. BJJ is the art d'jour at the moment, and almost every mcdojo in every small town in America teaches it. Kata, like most traditional martial arts, is seen as antiquated. It's NOT what kids are seeing on TV (unlike what we saw with the Karate Kid movies) and so it's not only dismissed but derided. The funny thing, especially with POP culture, is we see that everything Old is New again. The circle will come back and around and people will see VALUE in traditional martial arts and even kata. No, today is NOT like it was "back in my day".....but it WILL be.....it WILL be soon enough.

  • @ModernTangSooDo
    @ModernTangSooDo 3 месяца назад

    Great video. Really love this channel. You’re probably familiar with Chadi but he has some great videos on standing joint locks. His one on Shodokan Aikido in particular seems to demonstrate that at least some of these locks actually can be done safely in sparring. I don’t know that I am convinced that kata is a particularly good training method even for these locks specifically.

  • @whyguy2324
    @whyguy2324 Год назад +1

    Looking forward to your new video series, keep up the hard work!

    • @TenguMartialArts
      @TenguMartialArts  Год назад +3

      Appreciate the support! I'm actually in the process of deconstructing the series a bit further. All the information is still going to come out, I'm just trying to edit it down into pieces that are bit more succinct and digestible. My first few drafts of it have just been a bit too slow burn for my taste (and probably for the medium of RUclips)!
      Should have a few new videos out very, very soon, though!

  • @martiallife4136
    @martiallife4136 Год назад +3

    Standing locks lead to a lot of injuries.

    • @martiallife4136
      @martiallife4136 Год назад +2

      @@Ninja9JKD Not while practicing in a cooperative environment. When it comes to competition and full out sparring, standing joint locks are dangerous and lead to injuries. That's because two people are contesting against one another.

  • @prvtthd401
    @prvtthd401 Год назад

    I got to say, I am really glad I discovered your channel. I agree with you on alot of subjects and points you make. You have good insights on, development of martial arts, martial arts community, martial pedagogy, and traditional martial arts subjects + how it relates to modern martial arts.
    Bang Muay Thai system for example would fit your description on katas. They have 10 base combinations which they just number. Students practice those combinations on each other (dutch kickboxing style). Eventually those building blocks form the basis for something bigger. They would scream "parry the cross, 1, 5, low kick" for example which means combination 1 followed by combination 5 and end it with a low kick when the opponent fires a cross.
    And I also agree on your comment on standing locks. They are hard to train. They carry risks when training under live resistance, you can't slowly apply them so then you need to do it quickly but that could injure your partner. Yet I am sure they work because I could apply it during sparring and I was submitted through standing locks as well. They don't need to be destructive, but just the nature of the technique carries more risks. They still play a role especially in security roles where control is required because like you said, essentially they are just like any other locks and one of those properties is that they break their will to fight back and submits them aming the many advantages it has to offer.

  • @kimbowman6606
    @kimbowman6606 Год назад +1

    I used to believe that kata sucked, especially because I spent years practicing them for hours every day just to learn some advanced techniques from styles not commonly taught to Americans like me. Then one day I noticed that having a vast repertoire of combinations embedded in muscle memory was extremely useful when bouting, sparring or rolling.
    Instantly all my options were at my immediate disposal, and my conscious mind could take a backseat and just try to keep up when they emerged automatically in the heat of combat. Suddenly I had plenty of time and space to consciously observe my opponent's body and reactions because my body already knew how to respond without taking any time or extra energy to think about it.
    There is no other way I know of to practice transitioning through explosive combos such that your balance and stance remains solid and smooth. It is like programming the bodymind to understand intuitively how to move between moves. The moves themselves are beside the point.
    Solo kata are just as important as partner drills in training techniques to be effective. It's also fun to practice a bunch of war-dance moves in the process of getting a powerful workout.

  • @billc.4584
    @billc.4584 Год назад +1

    Now you're into my jam! 😁 I think that the biggest issue relating to kata is that it got kinda' crazy. I practice a traditional form of Okinawan karate. Point being: there are distinct differences between traditional Okinawan styles and other forms. Depending on who you ask, there are only six to nine katas to practice a relatively few forms. Makes it very much easier to learn and, I think, infinitely more adaptable to circumstances because of their broad generalization. Importantly, it creates muscle memory and conditions you to use the correct form that will actually work to defend you. From there, through bunkai, we attempt to learn how to execute the more formal movements learned into a variety of combat situations. Circling back to kata, I think the biggest value of kata is the conditioning it imparts through repetative movement and dynamic tension and if you're a complete psycho and do it while holding 5 lbs weights, so much the better. :P That, plus conditioning on purpose with a variety of weights and the absolute willingness to cheat makes for a real pain in the butt. Like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it. Great presentation. Thanks. Peace.

  • @ShinjitsuKK
    @ShinjitsuKK 6 месяцев назад +1

    Kata are valuable for self defence against untrained attackers. If u spend years studying them u will need no sparring for self defence....
    I used kata in competition back in the day, Kudo stole my heart 😅

  • @habojspade
    @habojspade Год назад

    I really like Wing Chun's approach to forms. They're not a thing you do on your own that will magically make you better and they're also not trying to recreate a fight. Instead they're a way of separating out certain techniques based off of difficulty with the easier and more fundamental ones in the earlier forms and the more edge case ones in the later forms.

  • @HeyyyJude
    @HeyyyJude Год назад +1

    Katas are definitely great for beginners and for teaching a new movement in a person's progression. They're also great for practicing control and focusing on specific movements. Kata are not to teach you how to fight. As someone else mentioned, they are a great tool for building fundamentals. Similar to how you see someone first learning how to box, they often do repeated movements in a predetermined way to practice. An example would be someone first learning how to step with their jab. They go from one end of the ring to another jabbing and taking one step forward. Then repeated but this time backwards. Then again going to the left. And again going to the right. If you look at the kata in the way they are great learning tools. I do not believe kata are bad. I agree that kata is one aspect of training. But it should not be the only aspect of training for any martial arts teaching how to actually fight.

  • @Dan.50
    @Dan.50 Год назад +1

    If kata is your thing, then have at it, stand in a horse stance for 20 years if you want. However, if self defense is your goal then you don't need kata at all and as a matter of fact wasting your time doing it will be detrimental to your ultimate goal.

  • @Oldswamppuma
    @Oldswamppuma Год назад +1

    Kata, it was explained to me this way from an Okinawan point of view. The U.S. bombs Japan when it really didn't have too. U.S. soldiers eventually want to take the arts. Question posed to me, do you really think Japanese are now willingly going to just give up the knowledge of their national heritage. The answer was no. So since the U.S. was the occupying power the locals agreed and taught a watered down version through kata. The movements were taught but what you were actually doing was not. This is a big secret in my art. I used to hate kata but it allowed me a fluidity and skill ove movement in daily life that i cant put onto words. Once I made a certain level i was told now it was time to learn. Once the body was programmed then the knowledge on how to interpret the kata was revealed my mind was blown. Seriously. The movements i thought were simple strikes and kicks were deviating and lethal, even in the first kata. All i have to do now is visualize what I'm actually doing. In my art an outsider will have no idea what im doing, and people occasionally see what im doing and will have no clue. I talked to a seventh degree and tried to get him to show me the actuall movements and he had no idea what i was talking about. I dont why he would not know but i didn't take his class. All i ever wanted to know was how to interpret the movements in the kata i already know so he couldn't help me. I absolutely love kata and want to do nothing but that. Also kata was used to weed out beginners who did not have the patience, fortitude or discipline to handle the knowledge, so as to not abuse the power given them. I really feel i am kinda spilling the beans on some of this however i feel a common sense of honest inquiry on this channel and wanted to throw on my two cents.

    • @Oldswamppuma
      @Oldswamppuma Год назад

      Other thing I would like to say about Americans, If I decided to teach I would expect over a 60 percent drop out rate, due to the slow boring kata and methodical nature of it all, however I would not be teaching for money. Naturally I would not care about commercialization and would free me up to teach quality to a smaller group anyway. It would be hard as it should be so the few could experience the joy and treasure you carry every day. A punch should be a treasure gently hidden underneath your sleeve.

  • @mizukarate
    @mizukarate Год назад +1

    Sorry you need kata. Why?
    1.Solo training
    2. It is a living training manual
    3. Kata teaches you pace and tempo
    4. They teach you to fight multiple opponents
    5. Kata promotes health and fitness
    6. Kata teaches skills that you can use in sparring, self-defense, and shadowboxing
    7. It keeps thing organized

    • @AdityaChoudhary-t5w
      @AdityaChoudhary-t5w 5 месяцев назад

      It's fucking about you can win or not

    • @mizukarate
      @mizukarate 5 месяцев назад

      @@AdityaChoudhary-t5w Then with kata you win. I have used numerous parts of kata to win in real dangerous situations.

    • @AyeJordan7
      @AyeJordan7 4 месяца назад

      Kata does not teach u how to fight multiple opponents.Kenwa Mabuni and old karate master debunked this…there basically a out dated waste of time….kata is only a supplement.

    • @mizukarate
      @mizukarate 4 месяца назад +1

      @@AyeJordan7 How strange you say this because they helped me in fights with multiple people. I am not convinced with your comment. I still have my life because of Kata.

    • @AyeJordan7
      @AyeJordan7 4 месяца назад

      @@mizukarateprobably the dumbest shit I’ve read all day.

  • @1mataleo1
    @1mataleo1 Год назад

    In Chinese martial arts, “joint locks” fall under QinNa techniques, and they are not meant to lock or submit,; rather, they are meant to tear/separate/divide the muscles, tendons, and ligaments and/or break the bones; seal the breath (chokes) and arteries (strangles). In my experience, The only practical way to use them is against grabs and holds. QinNa techniques then are not something you look for, but something your opponent gives to you. They are meant to be applied with a sharp, jerking type energy to cause max damage. In my opinion, they are worth training against common grabs, especially if you combine them with strikes and/or neutralizations, but they shouldn’t be a major part of training since they are predicated on the enemy grabbing you, whereas strikes, throws, and takedowns can be initiated by you, with great success.

  • @rebelninjafightclub
    @rebelninjafightclub Год назад

    Great Video! Very Thought Provoking. This sounds like the direction practical karate is going anyway. Training the kata on a solo setting to build an understanding of techniques and principles. Then use the kata in sparring with increasing intensity. Footwork Drills, striking combinations, grappling work, etc is all pulled from kata. My perspective of karate (at least shotokan) is dirty boxing combined with wrestling. So, drilling and sparring from the onset is a lot easier for me to implement with beginners.

  • @AdobadoFantastico
    @AdobadoFantastico Год назад

    Standing joint locks are valid but cheeky. They require commiting to low percentage opportunity and easily leave you exposing yourself as their limb slips out. Also people can choose to be stubborn like you see sometimes with leg locks, I think that worsens the rep on any obscure sub.

  • @deejin25
    @deejin25 Год назад

    Watching an internet filled with professional martial artists, with resources I can only dream of, totally miss the tons of applicable (often freakishly easily applicable) methods in traditional kata and taolu makes me feel great. More job security for me. Keep not doing what you're not doing.

  • @davidodonnell4371
    @davidodonnell4371 Год назад

    Thanks for the interesting video. Very informative. BTW, did you study at Keio? The patches on the karate gi look like the university's logo.

    • @TenguMartialArts
      @TenguMartialArts  Год назад

      Saidai, actually. I visited Keio once though for reasons unrelated to martial arts. My memory is fuzzy, as to why, my I remember liking the campus a lot.

  • @mizukarate
    @mizukarate Год назад +1

    Remember kata is a pattern or a universe all its own

  • @mack93936
    @mack93936 Год назад

    Not sparing but self defense