Yes. Ignorance of this "strong bottom position" dangers is pretty dillusional/arrogant... what I infact hated in BJJ was people saying BJJ is superior, when you just can stand up or try to avoid grappling (IMHO there is a place for every Martial Art). Other fact is that in a self defence situation ground is the last place where I want to be (there could be also others coming to attack you). But yeah it is important to know ground game as well and there BJJ really comes handy
27 years Judoka shodan. I've done JJJ, Wrestling and BJJ. I trained it for two years. While I enjoy newaza, it wasn't for me. They never started from standing, always on your backside or knees. It was completely unrealistic and it's obviously been watered down over the years since GJJ.
I used to be a prison guard, bjj has a gym mat sized training scar. In a self defense situation you don't want to be on the ground too long incase more people join the fight and it's not always wise to pull guard if it means landing on a curb
I have said this for years, if your confrontating more than one opponent, the last place you want to be is on the ground. Situational awareness, how about rockey ground, pea gravel, glass or a slope. The good guys don't get to pick when we get jumped or robbed. The situation is usually going to favor evil. Be prepared.
Lots of good points. BJJ has a similar narrative to martial arts like karate 50 years ago; it's like a superpower and is superior to other forms of fighting. It attracts a lot of nerds who find that appealing, but don't have much other experience that would cause them to think things through a bit more. There's just an assumption that 'I train BJJ therefore I can defend myself.' The moment you step out the dojo everything changes; the ground is no longer a nice comfortable area that invites rolling around on it. When are you likely to need fighting skills? Probably when you're out in the city on a Saturday night. What will you be wearing? Probably $500 worth of good clothes, maybe a new shirt. So your go-to if an altercation starts is to start rolling around in the street? When you could've just delivered a sharp jab-cross and been on your way.
I deeply, deeply love Judo and Jujutsu but I do not and never enjoyed BJJ. My father pulled me out of Judo as a kid and put me in BJJ because he saw it makes for better UFC fighters, writing off Judo in its entirety. I was competing with significantly larger, older, stronger men at a very young age and all of my training partners dominated me and I was discouraged from using anything I used in Judo. I hated it. I still cannot enjoy and appreciate the art today, even in a completely different gym. To this day my father shits on any other art and holds it against me personally for choosing anything other than BJJ. I am trying to not let it bother me.
😭It makes me so sad to hear that. All martial arts have something to offer and BJJ (in my opinion) has very little of offer in a non sporting context. You need to know what to do if you fall on the ground sure, but it doesn't have to be BJJ and it doesn't have to be that complex. Maybe point out to your father the interview on Jesse Encamp's channel with Bill Wallace and the dodgyness of the first UFC's and how the Gracie family heavily manipulated the sport for personal gain. Then point out that the moment the field was opened up competitors like Kazushi Sakuraba immediately starting dismantling the Gracie propaganda and BJJ became far less relevant as the sport progressed. Classical martial arts are SO important to the community, it is so sad that people the damage that MMA has done to the industry.
I know he's your dad and i don't want to be disrespectful, but your father sounds like a bully. Also it sounds crazy to me that the older stronger guys at that BJJ gym insisted on using their size to dominate you to feed their ego instead of toning it down or giving you a different partner where you can both learn. Ego I've noticed, seems like a massive problem in BJJ more than in other gyms as this sadly isn't the first story like this that I've heard. So I wouldn't even acknowledge what your father says and just do what you love.
But then again you could critize modern Judo ruleset most people train for with as much zest, with all the grip limitations and the bizzarre roll throughs they do all the time habitually landing into under a pin and somehow scoring. It's just as stupid as guard pulls and berimbolos. Makes me think of that 90s case where a Judo world champion was beaten and robbed by a random bum on Kopakabana beach.
It seems to me that there is currently no complete grappling system, at least not one that is popular. Almost every grappling system teaches you a specific set of skills and leaves you with huge holes in your game in other areas. This being the case, if one wants to be a complete grappler then cross training between different styles is often necessary. BJJ often leaves people ill prepared in the area of takedowns. Judo, especially modern Judo, leaves one ill prepared for leg grab takedowns while standing and let's be honest many Judo clubs don't produce people with great ground skills. And neither Judo nor BJJ give a lot of instruction on how to get back to your feet from an inferior position, like it sounded you liked to do when training BJJ. Folkstyle wrestling teaches you how to escape back to your feet but Freestyle and Greco-Roman do not. And none of those three styles of wrestling teach you anything about submissions or guard play. Of all the famous styles of grappling...training only one will usually leave a person with huge holes in their grappling game. And BJJ despite allowing more than all the others has fallen into the same situation because of what you said...the rules allowing guard pulling which allows many BJJ practitioners to never learn good stand up...kind of how turtling and waiting for the ref to save you in Judo allows many Judoka's, even good judokas, to have limited ground game skills. Instead of seeing different grappling arts as competitors of one another, I often see them as places where I can learn new skills and gain new tools that make me a better overall grappler. For me Judo and BJJ are like two sides of the same coin...this was even more the case in Judo before the leg grab ban and gripping rules. The marriage of old school Judo and BJJ would have produced a relatively well rounded grappler in Gi. But it depends on what an individual is personally looking for. In your case, it sounds like you don't like ground game much so Judo alone is a better fit for you. I will say as someone who started with old school Judo (in the 1990's) and then expanded to wrestling and then to BJJ...that ground game grows on you over time. I was often a relatively lazy Judoka on the ground before I started BJJ. And I was at that time not really a huge fan of ground game but after training it extensively, I started to really enjoy it more and see more of the art and technique in it. When I competed in a Judo tournament in Hong Kong after training BJJ for some years it felt like I had a whole new set of skills by combining the two. Combining Judo and BJJ can create a real synergy...but doing so is definitely not for everyone.
I have been wanting to do a grappling martial art. I have one place that teaches fundamentals of BJJ at 6:30pm then has Judo from 7:30 to 8:30. Since I'm a fat 37 year old beginner, would you recommend I do both or focus on one grappling art? Also if I do both, should I do each one twice a week, totaling 4 classes a week or do one class of each? I've heard that you don't want to do too many classes a week or else you get injured from over training.
@@Darthzilla99 I would suggest you start doing BJJ 2 to 3 times and then after you are in better shape from training start adding Judo in. You are far more likely to get injured doing Judo than BJJ since people often get injured during that out of control moment while falling. BJJ is much easier for older people to ease into, especially if they are not in good shape. Once you are in decent shape try experimenting by adding the Judo in. A one hour class is pretty quick. A lot will depend on how much live rolling you are doing. If you are doing like 15 to 25 minutes of live rolls during the BJJ class then you will be pretty tired to do Judo right after when you first start. Once you are in better shape it will be easier to do 2 classes in a row.
It's fine to not like a thing, but you qualify that sentiment with a bunch of rationalisation about realism when Judo is as abstract as it's ever been, and the tactical validity of your mat time isn't an excuse to disregard the people who trust you to roll with them.
Judo is far better and more complete as a grappling art. BJJ only focuses on the ground. And while the skill to do that is good to have, Judo has it and much more. Throwing, joint locking, takedowns, etc.
I practiced Kyokuhsin, Wado-ryu and BJJ. All I can say is that Bjj is not that practical in real life situations because it involves the ground game way too much. No throws are being taught at a bjj class, no arm locks from a standing position always starting on your knees or from a ground point. It was fun for a while but I never saw any long term benefits unless you are a mma fighter or you enjoy rubbing on concrete. I will be joining an Aikido club soon, I have always been curious about this art and with my previous striking experience I'm sure something good will come out of it. As for BJJ, I think its the new hot stuff and everyone is doing it because Bjj has a smart marketing strategy to it, linked with mma and all the rest, but I think old school JJJ, Combat Sambo or Combat Hapkido are better for self defence. Bjj is just sport nowdays. Osu from Romania!
I couldn't agree with you more. My closest friend and business partner was a police officer who did a lot of close personal protection work for officials and spent A LOT of time on this stuff. He was a 140kg Maori and a weapon on the ground. To be fair he was just a weapon all round. The police fell for the propaganda of BJJ for a while and incorporated it into their official training. It hung around for a couple of years and then they pulled the bulk of it out again because officer injury rates went up significantly. The simple fact is you don't want to be on the ground in a real confrontation full stop. There is no sugar coating this reality. Are you aware of a system called Gongkwon Yu Sul? It is a hybrid hapkido system that incorporates a Kyokoshin style striking system, judo and some ground. It's reasonably practical and a lot of fun, check it out :)
@@mikebennett938 I did some research on Gongkwon Yu Sul and it sounds like a fun yet very useful martial art. Unfortunately there are no dojos in my area and i think the only one in Europe is located in Germany. Maybe in the future the organization will expand and I will surely give it a try. Cheers!
@@elijahwilson1422 maybe in america, but at least at my dojo in romania that was not the case. leaving techniques alone, bjj doesn't have the martial arts dojo spirit, it feels just like walking into a gym. Where as in kyokushin, aikido or any other style of traditional martial art it feels like you step into another world. just my take on in.
@@albertmarkethinkpr1325 it's real popular among accomplished, high level wrestlers, both Freestyle and Greco-Roman. So to say it never begins from stand up is laughable and you can see this in the early UFC matches and also from footage of Vale Tudo fights. I used what I learned to disarm someone of their .45, then turned my back, cranked their arm and flipped them three times in the and keep them from murdering both of us. When the cops showed up they took my side and shooting takedowns is big in BJJ as are sweeps from standing.
I feel like I have the exact opposite opinion of bjj that the internet does. Bjj is ground game and that's fine, but it needs to stop paying lip service to takedowns. My bjj instructor was a world champion, and when I tested for my blue belt, I had to know four judo throws. We were trained to do a few judo throws, but none of the setup necessary execute them on a resisting opponent. Why is it that a world champion in jiu-jitsu can't properly teach takedowns? Because you don't need to be good at takedowns to win at jiu-jitsu. Takedowns just exist as a vestige in the sport. It's like they're only around to delude bjj players into thinking their wrestling is okay because they always start from standing at their gym. I also think guard pulling is kind of a scapegoat. If you banned it, it's just going to get replaced with something probably worse like consensual takedowns or something. The truth is that in order for all the guard playing to be incentivized, takedowns have to be disincentivized. Lastly, when I was at jiu-jitsu I would start standing up whenever I could but looking back it's just stupid and dangerous to start from standing. Nobody has good enough ukemi to take falls properly, and the ruleset is so open ended that someone could just decide to attempt kani basami on you because he saw it on a RUclips video and now your knee has been Rokas'd. So, you're just increasing your risk of getting injured severalfold and you're not even going to learn how to wrestle doing so. tl;dr Bjj is to stand up what sumo is to ground game, and that's okay on its own, but bjj players need to stop deluding themselves into thinking bjj is even capable of teaching adequate takedowns.
I think that’s reasonable. I would lean that way, too, the issue is that BJJ itself and many practitioners don’t really treat it or market it that way. It is, instead, the “””best””” grappling style and they want to go head to head with Judo, Wrestling, etc. and incorporate them. This is all good and fine, but it just incurs judging the art along the same lines it sees itself. Which, at current date, is art that increasingly wants to be in the same conversation in the realm of takedowns as other arts.
I've been studying Brazilian jiujitsu for over seven years. I'm a purple belt, and I am so glad people are pointing these things out. I primarily started BJJ because judo is hard to find in my area. I've studied other martial arts (primarily karate), and I did judo as a teen. I now cross-train in wrestling and judo on top of my BJJ. People freak out when you osoto gari them, like you're not "supposed" to do that. Uh, okay. I play a lot of Kimura traps on the ground, but I try to get topside as much as possible for as long as possible. To me, BJJ is tactically making the best out of a bad situation, but I ain't hanging out in bottom guard for poops and chuckles during a live roll. Agreed on the bit about speaking Japanese. I studied the language in college. It's good for you. It will make you smarter and more perceptive of the techniques. People whine about that way too much.
see, as somebody who does aikido in a practical way. anybody ive ever sparred with told me i cant use aikido. like, really? that martial art everybody says doesnt work, i cant use in a simple sparring session? hwy is that? oh, because none of your basic as shit strikes do anything? youve got horrible probing range, and you have no ability to use foot work? i think its because they want to land strikes, and not get tapped out while standing up.
I’m in the same boat, bjj purple doing it for around 8 years, but I always did stand up and for the last 3 years even focused 80% of my efforts in the stand up.
The original intent of Japanese jujutsu was "oh shit i lost my sword. He probably still has one. Lets put him on the ground, and get in position to 1. Choke him, 2. Break his limb, 3. Stab him with my knife. Lets also not worry too much about hitting him since hes probably in armor" Not that we should be asking ourselves "what would musashi do?" Every step we take, but i do think that 1. Judo is more in line with this thinking than BJJ just based on the rules to its competitions and 2. Between guard sitting/butt scootching, hand games, and the totally bizarre guards, is this actually what the true founders of jujutsu had in mind? Hell is this what the gracies had in mind when they were developing it for vale tudo? If you wouldnt do it in MMA, why are you practicing it for BJJ competition? . Again, you could say the same about a lot of styles, like point karate for example. But i think the difference is that BJJ guys all too often are so pretentious about how infallible their style is. Or how they think. Its just a fighting system like any other.
One of the senseis at my club is 87. He doesnt do intense randori anymore (he does some light playful stuff) but i think he did up until he was like 83-84. I think that judo is totally doable by older people who have done judo, but i think starting judo when you are older (even just middle aged) is much harder. If you know how to fall, falling as a 60 year old is no big deal. If you dont know how to fall, taking lots of falls in order to learn sucks as a 40 year old.
Hi! Where I train we never really banned leg grabs and we often do untimed ne waza (albeit we always start on the feet, there isn’t any guard pulling). As for what I’ve generally build my game around, it’s Drop Tai Otoshi, Tomo Nage, O Soto Gari/Otoshi (both sides), and a couple sacrifice throws like Uki Waza. Frankly, I don’t think my style is awfully pretty, but it has let me hang with people about my weight class-although there are size differences that are definitely a lot more difficult to overcome. Also, if you’re coming at this from a pure Judo PoV, I’d suggest looking at maybe 2 pins and really mastering them. They don’t have to be fancy, but they should be reliable to you. I think when you’re doing to do dropping and sacrificing stuff, the bare minimum you need is to know how to pin. If it’s a true Judo rule set, you’ll probably also need to investigate a turn over or two. Submissions are fine, but they can come later. For Judo, hold downs are broadly speaking more consistent means to victory. If you find yourself training in BJJ and you want to do hold down practice, you can either talk to your partner or just mentally count out the seconds in a pin-that’s something I’ve done over the years. Other than that it’s just blending all that together. I’m not like a crazy seasoned competitor or anything, but usually drop Tai or O Soto scores a waza ari for me and you can cement the match with a pin. If you want some video reference I’d check out Kashiwazaki’s instructional. It’s free on RUclips. It’s in Japanese, but I think it’s visual enough for anyone to get the gist. He isn’t a drop Tai O specialist, but he is a Tomoe and pin specialist. I took a lot of inspiration from him on a strategic level and still reference his film today. Hope that help! If you’re looking for a Tai Otoshi reference, by the way, I set mine up similarly to Won Hee Lee, but I’m no where near good enough to stay standing and pull off the witch craft that dude did, hence the drop adaptation. Good luck!
I love your openness to other martial arts, I mean let’s be real you spent 5000 hours spamming wristlocks in aikdo my dude…but I think you need to give this one another try. I’ve seen a lot of judo guys who have a high rank or black belt go into a bjj class and get submitted by blues and purple belts and then never come back or complain that if it was a real fight they would have just punched the guy on bottom….you seem like a very rational dude but I think you may have fallen into this category with your experience. Shooting for a double leg it’s very effective buts it’s not in the rules for judo so I don’t do them in judo class. That could of course be a point of criticism for that art but I don’t see you taking the same stance in regards to judo.. Yes there are techniques that are relatively useless outside the sport of bjj but the vast majority are applicable and almost all upper belts you could find will have a great understanding of both bottom and top games. This idea that a bjj will pull guard in the street is a bit dated and especially with the rise of nogi, wrestling and takedowns are apart of most classes. Additionally, I think Jiu Jitsu is the only martial art that offers unique application with submissions/offense from the bottom position. I get the idea of not wanting to be below somebody in an altercation but the reality is that it can happen and then less you train there on a somewhat frequent basis it’s going to feel foreign and uncomfortable. This idea specifically aligns well with women’s self-defense as they tend to be smaller and weaker than men on average and in an altercation with a man will benefit from understanding these concepts. Nonetheless I’m loving your content and it’s refreshing to see someone so knowledgeable on the history of martial arts. Keep up the great content!
I completely agree. One bad experience can change a view permanently. Personally I train BJJ with other athletes as well to see how it will work against someone throwing strikes or trying a ground and pound style. It’s not as impossible as people make it seem to deal with someone trying to pin and ground and pound or even just throw strikes from a semi dominant position. Always having to posture up to throw strikes for any leverage, opens up many opportunities that people who don’t train just won’t see. I believe as the saying goes, a martial art is only as effective as the practitioner. God bless. A similar argument can also be made to the multiple opponent myth with BJJ, if you use the art in a strict and rigid way then you will only be able to see and use it in that specific way. Open your view and then more pieces will connect.
Yeah yeah, belt over there and there, that is the only thing that made you continue un Jiu-jitsu, hey, and if someone who never trained ground work (Ne Waza) its obvious that gets submitted, if a Judoka is well skilled in ne waza he might beat any belt, even if took you 9 years to reached, it took them years too, and Jiu-jitsu the only one who offers a street fight real situation? What only stays on the ground, oh, an look at Morote Gari, Double leg takedown from Judo... and you have fall in your experience too if you think Tengu did it
Thank god somebody out there said bjj is not all that and a bag of chips. Yes, just casually taking the bottom like its just not a big deal is quite foolish in my opinion when less energy is expended on top. All my thought focus is entirely on realistic combat and if your on bottom your opponent will not always have a heavy jacket on which limits several movements. I have found that my balance was superior by a large margin while standing and countering for position before the ground game. When on the ground of course i got smoked as the new guy. I learned a great deal from bjj but the undying love affair as the perfect or superior martial art turns my stomach. Moderation in all things. Bjj is a feather in my cap along with other arts that make me what i am. Be a well rounded artist and be able to defend yourself in any position or situation.
On the topic of injury: I’ve got a nerve injury in my leg. This causes my leg to become suddenly numb or erupt into burning nerve pain. You can imagine that doing the taekwondo kicks I trained in is nearly an impossible task. Effectively delivering force when your balance is broken is not realistic. Ground fighting is not so bad.
I agree with the intensely boring comment. I tried out BJJ for a few lessons and had no motivation to stick with it bacause it just didn;t grab me. Newaza was always the part I liked least when I did Judo so I was probably kidding myself when I thought I might want to pick up BJJ.
Some generalizations coming at you here: If I had to guess, the most popular martial art family in the US is karate (to include things like kempo, TKD, and TSD) but specifically an American style of karate developed 40-60 years ago by a Vietnam war vet who learned something while stationed in Okinawa, Japan, and Korea, and mixed it together, sometimes along with boxing or wrestling. If those schools offer ground fighting at all, it's usually not the focus, and is watered down Judo or Japanese Jujutsu. Today though, we are seeing a change in that where these random Karate dojos offer ground fighting, and they either bring in something like a BJJ purple belt to teach it, or the instructor does his best to train in it online or maybe even at a different school, and incorporate it into his own lessons, either way still watered down, but now it's BJJ. I hold a second degree black belt in ninjutsu, and it spent about half the time training in ground fighting, from a Japanese Jujutsu base. When I roll with BJJ guys, they are 1. Usually better than me but 2. Also get super weird about positions. High level BJJ uses guards, positions and techniques that would never in a million years work, if they weren't doing just grappling, and therefore modern BJJ (not necessarily what was going on in the 90s in brazil) is very poor for self defense. Don't believe me? Show me a real world application for a donkey guard, or land one of those spin on your back take down things when the guy is allowed to deck you in your face... Not that other arts aren't guilty of the same thing. (Look at kyokushins rolling thunder kick, for example) ... So I'm content to say, for self defense applications, you NEED to be comfortable on the ground. The question is that should you really spend so much time on the ground that you qualify for a black belt in BJJ, or are you good after about blue or purple belt? Pulling guard therefore is also stupid. If I ran those competitions, I'd have to think that would be a non engagement penalty. Anyway. Yes BJJ has a lot to offer on the ground. But American wrestling, judo, some Japanese Jujutsu, and other systems offer better options often times. Or a similar stance; it's good as a secondary style for people. It's not efficient by itself. I say that about a lot of styles though.
Says that Japanese Ju Jutsu and Judo offer better options yet doesnt realize that judo *is* a form of ju jutsu. You do make some good points though. Judo is also watered down thanks to the Olympics.
@@chrisjackson8151 it's semantics, but unless you're prepared to say, sumo, Ninpo Taijutsu, Judo, Aikido, and Brazilian Jiujitsu at least are all forms of Japanese Jujutsu, then Its probably best to look at all of those as separate but related. I'm not gonna die on that hill though so categorize how you want. I would say Japanese Jujutsu is just the granddaddy to all that, and Judo is probably the most direct descendant of JJJ's original intent. (throwing a guy in armor)
The bottom closed guard was a “oh shit” position the samurai would train in for emergencies. It was never meant to be a primary fighting position - it was also extensively trained in by women in samurai family. Samurai focused on the open guard - which is what Rickson Gracie has been pushing as the new standard for BJJ.
It's refreshing because in today's climate, criticizing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is generally strongly discouraged. Constructive criticism is beneficial for growth and improvement. Jujitsu (Japanese), Karate and other martial arts got their share for the last 15 years. From what i see, the various styles took notice and some are evolving. Bjj is going to be 100 years old, time to get a reality check.
@@PlacidTanuki I have done that against purples. Karate had plenty of basic grappling in the systems, this is well documented, it is also well documented how it started to ignore these skills and pushed more towards a "boxing" approach especailly in Japan were it was billed as "Japanese Boxing" to try and stave off the rise of Western Boxing (which it failed to do)
How deep was your bjj experience? I am a Judoka first taekwondoin second but I found some love for bjj especially for its community. Still hate the grappling format. It’s like the Wild West of grappling only without horses and guns- only the herding part lol 😂
I train both Judo and BJJ, and IMO the fusion of the two is ideal. Judo has serious "martial art" problems on the same scale as your criticisms of BJJ. At least, this is the case in its modern and common expression. I think *ancient* Judo (we could say before 1950) retained more valid "martial art" value. BJJ has the advantage that it imposes very few limits -- a BJJka may expect to train for silly IBJJF rules, or MMA, or self defense, or whatever, and that means within the BJJ-sphere there is almost nothing that isn't in scope. That's its value to me... Judo adds the primacy of aggression, the standup game, and a more complete positional value system.
I'll take this from the perspective of someone with blackbelts in judo and bjj. Not engaging on the ground in a bjj class is the exact same as pulling guard in a judo class. I see people cross over a lot, but many times I see them attempting to try to beat the other using the other. Beating judo using bjj, or vise versa. Both instances are examples of shitty students with a shitty attitude. I can understand your frustration within the bjj community. But I came out of the the Minnesota Martial Arts Academy, we were a jiu-jitsu for mma school, traditional bjj if you will. In this I will point out the 4 rules of jiu-jitsu stated by Chris Haueter. 1. Be the guy on top 2. When on top stay on top 3. When on bottom have a guard thall shall not pass. 4. Never forget rule number 1 I will definitely admit the obvious flaws of modern bjj, but to say that the flaws in modern judo aren't any more dangerous is ridiculous. But that's for another debate.
Interesting thoughts. I think people frequently perceive the Judo vs BJJ question to be a question of which is better, when in actuality the truth is that they teach you different skills, with some cross over, and many of the skills being complementary to the other system. Training Judo will improve your BJJ and training BJJ will improve your Judo. Though I will admit as someone that started Judo in the 90's that modern Judo rules...with the leg grab ban...really has taken it down a notch in terms of raw overall interstyle grappling ability. Old school judo was much more beneficial for BJJ.
I feel you, though I have a diferent background. I only do/did no-gi training and feel like being able to survive against high ranked guys in a BJJ ruleset is enough BJJ. Personally would add some stuff I did not like: 1) higher ranked guys crying about you using strength (hello? isn't this fighting?) 2) as I mentioned I only did no-gi, but it is actually hard to find a gym that will let you do no-gi only, at least here in Brazil. 9 out of 10 gyms will tell you you need to take gi classes to do the no-gi classes. 3) some black belts will do "cheat" stuff, like letting you face huge guys to gass you out and than roll with you lol. but this is not something specific to BJJ only 4) contrary to you, I actually hate the cultural aspect. I don't want to be forced to act like a Japanese if I am not one. the bowing stuff, and OSS calling and other stuff is cringy to me
Honestly, it sounds like you just tried to do judo in your BJJ class. As an instructor of Jiu-Jitsu I would find that irritating too. It would be like if I went to judo and only tried tomoe nagi all the time so I could enter newaza faster. That's completely legitimate under the rules, but kinda misses the point of training judo. As far as striking being most efficient in some cases, there needs to be done understanding that priority of controlling the opponent takes priority over damaging the opponent. If you are in a position where striking doesn't lose control, then you are also in a position where you don't really have to strike. Honestly the greatest thing to me about Jiu-Jitsu as a self defense tool is that it controls escalation of aggression better than any other Martial art I can think of. I can fight to get off the bottom and run, or I can fight to control and hold my opponent in a position where their ability to hurt me is minimized, or when they are in that position that I have control of I can choose to strike them, or I can choose to choke or break them.
In that sense it is the best self defense martial art - sure, you can kill an attacker rather quickly with Muay Thai, boxing, wrestling, or judo, but where does that leave you? Sure, you won the meaningless street fight, great! Now you get to go to prison for years for manslaughter and excessive use of force. Bjj allows you to gain and maintain control of an opponent until the authorities arrive at which point you can walk free.
You say that using practical strategies an effective ones irritates you because being in the floor is more practical? Oh, and that sounds as someone who never did a Judo throw and never went to the stand up game ( Nage Waza), hey, and its Tomoe Nage, instead of Nagi, the accent english united statean dropped there
@@elijahwilson1422 You know the USA special forces train it too, right? In Japan the do train it too, right? The police too, right? USA and Japan's too right? They train more martial arts than only BJJ, they do train Judo too I meant aikido of course
@@elijahwilson1422 The military does train it. It is just they cut down the techniques and only choose the ones that works. Nowadays, they just changing up the combat program. There is always a Joint-military session where the two countries exchange training techniques. The U.S. Army has an MMA program which is the Combatives Program. I knew a few people who took it up when they were in service and when they were no longer in serving, they ended up training in both BJJ or Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and MMA. The Japanese military does Nippon Kempo, Aikido, and Judo.
Yoshinkan Aikido is pretty special, good thing it is still taught to the Tokyo Metropolitan Riot Police. In the U.S. Yoshinkan Aikido is rare there are only a few out there but some of the organizations are a bit corrupted.
If you are look for a particular style there is only two. There is a lot of Judo schools nowadays that are under the IJF so they follow the curriculum, since the IJF is more sports and olympic style Judo. If you want to find a traditional Judo that is somewhat both follow the traditional sense and sports look up for organization called World Judo Federation or find a Judo school that teaches both illegal techniques and traditional techniques.
Jiu Jitsu teaches people alot of bad habits from grappling without pointing out the bad habits. But we don't do this with wrestling, we know there aren't submissions in wrestling.
Bjj is going the way of karate. Mcdojos , belt factories & jr black belts
Yes. Ignorance of this "strong bottom position" dangers is pretty dillusional/arrogant... what I infact hated in BJJ was people saying BJJ is superior, when you just can stand up or try to avoid grappling (IMHO there is a place for every Martial Art). Other fact is that in a self defence situation ground is the last place where I want to be (there could be also others coming to attack you). But yeah it is important to know ground game as well and there BJJ really comes handy
Just standing up and avoiding grappling is a grappling skill in itself.
Usually wrestlers do it best, but you can learn it in BJJ as well.
27 years Judoka shodan. I've done JJJ, Wrestling and BJJ. I trained it for two years. While I enjoy newaza, it wasn't for me. They never started from standing, always on your backside or knees. It was completely unrealistic and it's obviously been watered down over the years since GJJ.
The BJJ schools up this way start from standing
But yes, BJJ got watered down because of tournaments and emphasis on style and points.
@@elijahwilson1422 good for your school, one I went to never did. Always from knees, guard or backside.
Smart and honest commentary. I hope you make content more frequently.
Thanks! And me, too. There should be content coming soon.
Tengu, you've created one of those rare YT channels where even the comments are worthwhile. Hats off to you.
Butt scooting is disrespectful.
I used to be a prison guard, bjj has a gym mat sized training scar. In a self defense situation you don't want to be on the ground too long incase more people join the fight and it's not always wise to pull guard if it means landing on a curb
I have said this for years, if your confrontating more than one opponent, the last place you want to be is on the ground. Situational awareness, how about rockey ground, pea gravel, glass or a slope. The good guys don't get to pick when we get jumped or robbed. The situation is usually going to favor evil. Be prepared.
Lots of good points.
BJJ has a similar narrative to martial arts like karate 50 years ago;
it's like a superpower and is superior to other forms of fighting.
It attracts a lot of nerds who find that appealing, but don't have much other experience that would cause them to think things through a bit more.
There's just an assumption that 'I train BJJ therefore I can defend myself.'
The moment you step out the dojo everything changes;
the ground is no longer a nice comfortable area that invites rolling around on it.
When are you likely to need fighting skills?
Probably when you're out in the city on a Saturday night.
What will you be wearing?
Probably $500 worth of good clothes, maybe a new shirt.
So your go-to if an altercation starts is to start rolling around in the street?
When you could've just delivered a sharp jab-cross and been on your way.
I deeply, deeply love Judo and Jujutsu but I do not and never enjoyed BJJ. My father pulled me out of Judo as a kid and put me in BJJ because he saw it makes for better UFC fighters, writing off Judo in its entirety. I was competing with significantly larger, older, stronger men at a very young age and all of my training partners dominated me and I was discouraged from using anything I used in Judo. I hated it. I still cannot enjoy and appreciate the art today, even in a completely different gym. To this day my father shits on any other art and holds it against me personally for choosing anything other than BJJ. I am trying to not let it bother me.
😭It makes me so sad to hear that. All martial arts have something to offer and BJJ (in my opinion) has very little of offer in a non sporting context. You need to know what to do if you fall on the ground sure, but it doesn't have to be BJJ and it doesn't have to be that complex. Maybe point out to your father the interview on Jesse Encamp's channel with Bill Wallace and the dodgyness of the first UFC's and how the Gracie family heavily manipulated the sport for personal gain. Then point out that the moment the field was opened up competitors like Kazushi Sakuraba immediately starting dismantling the Gracie propaganda and BJJ became far less relevant as the sport progressed. Classical martial arts are SO important to the community, it is so sad that people the damage that MMA has done to the industry.
It’s fine to not like something. You do what you like. It sounds as if your dad is trying to live through you. Tell him to find his own interests.
@@mikebennett938BJJ has very little to offer to someone who has no interest in it. The same can be said about other arts as well.
I know he's your dad and i don't want to be disrespectful, but your father sounds like a bully. Also it sounds crazy to me that the older stronger guys at that BJJ gym insisted on using their size to dominate you to feed their ego instead of toning it down or giving you a different partner where you can both learn. Ego I've noticed, seems like a massive problem in BJJ more than in other gyms as this sadly isn't the first story like this that I've heard. So I wouldn't even acknowledge what your father says and just do what you love.
Does your father actually train BJJ, or have any other solid martial arts skills?
If not, then disregard his views and find a legit role model.
But then again you could critize modern Judo ruleset most people train for with as much zest, with all the grip limitations and the bizzarre roll throughs they do all the time habitually landing into under a pin and somehow scoring. It's just as stupid as guard pulls and berimbolos. Makes me think of that 90s case where a Judo world champion was beaten and robbed by a random bum on Kopakabana beach.
It seems to me that there is currently no complete grappling system, at least not one that is popular. Almost every grappling system teaches you a specific set of skills and leaves you with huge holes in your game in other areas. This being the case, if one wants to be a complete grappler then cross training between different styles is often necessary. BJJ often leaves people ill prepared in the area of takedowns. Judo, especially modern Judo, leaves one ill prepared for leg grab takedowns while standing and let's be honest many Judo clubs don't produce people with great ground skills. And neither Judo nor BJJ give a lot of instruction on how to get back to your feet from an inferior position, like it sounded you liked to do when training BJJ. Folkstyle wrestling teaches you how to escape back to your feet but Freestyle and Greco-Roman do not. And none of those three styles of wrestling teach you anything about submissions or guard play. Of all the famous styles of grappling...training only one will usually leave a person with huge holes in their grappling game.
And BJJ despite allowing more than all the others has fallen into the same situation because of what you said...the rules allowing guard pulling which allows many BJJ practitioners to never learn good stand up...kind of how turtling and waiting for the ref to save you in Judo allows many Judoka's, even good judokas, to have limited ground game skills.
Instead of seeing different grappling arts as competitors of one another, I often see them as places where I can learn new skills and gain new tools that make me a better overall grappler. For me Judo and BJJ are like two sides of the same coin...this was even more the case in Judo before the leg grab ban and gripping rules.
The marriage of old school Judo and BJJ would have produced a relatively well rounded grappler in Gi.
But it depends on what an individual is personally looking for. In your case, it sounds like you don't like ground game much so Judo alone is a better fit for you.
I will say as someone who started with old school Judo (in the 1990's) and then expanded to wrestling and then to BJJ...that ground game grows on you over time. I was often a relatively lazy Judoka on the ground before I started BJJ. And I was at that time not really a huge fan of ground game but after training it extensively, I started to really enjoy it more and see more of the art and technique in it. When I competed in a Judo tournament in Hong Kong after training BJJ for some years it felt like I had a whole new set of skills by combining the two. Combining Judo and BJJ can create a real synergy...but doing so is definitely not for everyone.
I have been wanting to do a grappling martial art. I have one place that teaches fundamentals of BJJ at 6:30pm then has Judo from 7:30 to 8:30. Since I'm a fat 37 year old beginner, would you recommend I do both or focus on one grappling art? Also if I do both, should I do each one twice a week, totaling 4 classes a week or do one class of each? I've heard that you don't want to do too many classes a week or else you get injured from over training.
@@Darthzilla99 I would suggest you start doing BJJ 2 to 3 times and then after you are in better shape from training start adding Judo in. You are far more likely to get injured doing Judo than BJJ since people often get injured during that out of control moment while falling. BJJ is much easier for older people to ease into, especially if they are not in good shape. Once you are in decent shape try experimenting by adding the Judo in. A one hour class is pretty quick. A lot will depend on how much live rolling you are doing. If you are doing like 15 to 25 minutes of live rolls during the BJJ class then you will be pretty tired to do Judo right after when you first start. Once you are in better shape it will be easier to do 2 classes in a row.
It's fine to not like a thing, but you qualify that sentiment with a bunch of rationalisation about realism when Judo is as abstract as it's ever been, and the tactical validity of your mat time isn't an excuse to disregard the people who trust you to roll with them.
Judo is far better and more complete as a grappling art. BJJ only focuses on the ground. And while the skill to do that is good to have, Judo has it and much more. Throwing, joint locking, takedowns, etc.
Maybe the true BJJ is the friends we snuggled along the way
😆
It feels like you’re speaking to me directly in an unintentionally validating way. Thank you.
you’re gonna have to dial back the common sense, some people’s heads are gonna explode..
I practiced Kyokuhsin, Wado-ryu and BJJ. All I can say is that Bjj is not that practical in real life situations because it involves the ground game way too much. No throws are being taught at a bjj class, no arm locks from a standing position always starting on your knees or from a ground point. It was fun for a while but I never saw any long term benefits unless you are a mma fighter or you enjoy rubbing on concrete. I will be joining an Aikido club soon, I have always been curious about this art and with my previous striking experience I'm sure something good will come out of it. As for BJJ, I think its the new hot stuff and everyone is doing it because Bjj has a smart marketing strategy to it, linked with mma and all the rest, but I think old school JJJ, Combat Sambo or Combat Hapkido are better for self defence. Bjj is just sport nowdays. Osu from Romania!
I couldn't agree with you more. My closest friend and business partner was a police officer who did a lot of close personal protection work for officials and spent A LOT of time on this stuff. He was a 140kg Maori and a weapon on the ground. To be fair he was just a weapon all round. The police fell for the propaganda of BJJ for a while and incorporated it into their official training. It hung around for a couple of years and then they pulled the bulk of it out again because officer injury rates went up significantly. The simple fact is you don't want to be on the ground in a real confrontation full stop. There is no sugar coating this reality. Are you aware of a system called Gongkwon Yu Sul? It is a hybrid hapkido system that incorporates a Kyokoshin style striking system, judo and some ground. It's reasonably practical and a lot of fun, check it out :)
@@mikebennett938 I did some research on Gongkwon Yu Sul and it sounds like a fun yet very useful martial art. Unfortunately there are no dojos in my area and i think the only one in Europe is located in Germany. Maybe in the future the organization will expand and I will surely give it a try. Cheers!
Wrong, LOTS of BJJ instructors heavily emphasisw stand up
@@elijahwilson1422 maybe in america, but at least at my dojo in romania that was not the case. leaving techniques alone, bjj doesn't have the martial arts dojo spirit, it feels just like walking into a gym. Where as in kyokushin, aikido or any other style of traditional martial art it feels like you step into another world. just my take on in.
@@albertmarkethinkpr1325 it's real popular among accomplished, high level wrestlers, both Freestyle and Greco-Roman. So to say it never begins from stand up is laughable and you can see this in the early UFC matches and also from footage of Vale Tudo fights. I used what I learned to disarm someone of their .45, then turned my back, cranked their arm and flipped them three times in the and keep them from murdering both of us. When the cops showed up they took my side and shooting takedowns is big in BJJ as are sweeps from standing.
I feel like I have the exact opposite opinion of bjj that the internet does.
Bjj is ground game and that's fine, but it needs to stop paying lip service to takedowns. My bjj instructor was a world champion, and when I tested for my blue belt, I had to know four judo throws. We were trained to do a few judo throws, but none of the setup necessary execute them on a resisting opponent. Why is it that a world champion in jiu-jitsu can't properly teach takedowns? Because you don't need to be good at takedowns to win at jiu-jitsu. Takedowns just exist as a vestige in the sport. It's like they're only around to delude bjj players into thinking their wrestling is okay because they always start from standing at their gym.
I also think guard pulling is kind of a scapegoat. If you banned it, it's just going to get replaced with something probably worse like consensual takedowns or something. The truth is that in order for all the guard playing to be incentivized, takedowns have to be disincentivized.
Lastly, when I was at jiu-jitsu I would start standing up whenever I could but looking back it's just stupid and dangerous to start from standing. Nobody has good enough ukemi to take falls properly, and the ruleset is so open ended that someone could just decide to attempt kani basami on you because he saw it on a RUclips video and now your knee has been Rokas'd. So, you're just increasing your risk of getting injured severalfold and you're not even going to learn how to wrestle doing so.
tl;dr Bjj is to stand up what sumo is to ground game, and that's okay on its own, but bjj players need to stop deluding themselves into thinking bjj is even capable of teaching adequate takedowns.
I think that’s reasonable. I would lean that way, too, the issue is that BJJ itself and many practitioners don’t really treat it or market it that way. It is, instead, the “””best””” grappling style and they want to go head to head with Judo, Wrestling, etc. and incorporate them.
This is all good and fine, but it just incurs judging the art along the same lines it sees itself. Which, at current date, is art that increasingly wants to be in the same conversation in the realm of takedowns as other arts.
I've been studying Brazilian jiujitsu for over seven years. I'm a purple belt, and I am so glad people are pointing these things out.
I primarily started BJJ because judo is hard to find in my area. I've studied other martial arts (primarily karate), and I did judo as a teen. I now cross-train in wrestling and judo on top of my BJJ. People freak out when you osoto gari them, like you're not "supposed" to do that. Uh, okay.
I play a lot of Kimura traps on the ground, but I try to get topside as much as possible for as long as possible. To me, BJJ is tactically making the best out of a bad situation, but I ain't hanging out in bottom guard for poops and chuckles during a live roll.
Agreed on the bit about speaking Japanese. I studied the language in college. It's good for you. It will make you smarter and more perceptive of the techniques. People whine about that way too much.
see, as somebody who does aikido in a practical way. anybody ive ever sparred with told me i cant use aikido.
like, really? that martial art everybody says doesnt work, i cant use in a simple sparring session? hwy is that?
oh, because none of your basic as shit strikes do anything? youve got horrible probing range, and you have no ability to use foot work?
i think its because they want to land strikes, and not get tapped out while standing up.
I’m in the same boat, bjj purple doing it for around 8 years, but I always did stand up and for the last 3 years even focused 80% of my efforts in the stand up.
The original intent of Japanese jujutsu was "oh shit i lost my sword. He probably still has one. Lets put him on the ground, and get in position to 1. Choke him, 2. Break his limb, 3. Stab him with my knife. Lets also not worry too much about hitting him since hes probably in armor"
Not that we should be asking ourselves "what would musashi do?" Every step we take, but i do think that 1. Judo is more in line with this thinking than BJJ just based on the rules to its competitions and 2. Between guard sitting/butt scootching, hand games, and the totally bizarre guards, is this actually what the true founders of jujutsu had in mind? Hell is this what the gracies had in mind when they were developing it for vale tudo?
If you wouldnt do it in MMA, why are you practicing it for BJJ competition? .
Again, you could say the same about a lot of styles, like point karate for example. But i think the difference is that BJJ guys all too often are so pretentious about how infallible their style is. Or how they think.
Its just a fighting system like any other.
Are you sure you smell better? ;)
One of the senseis at my club is 87. He doesnt do intense randori anymore (he does some light playful stuff) but i think he did up until he was like 83-84. I think that judo is totally doable by older people who have done judo, but i think starting judo when you are older (even just middle aged) is much harder. If you know how to fall, falling as a 60 year old is no big deal. If you dont know how to fall, taking lots of falls in order to learn sucks as a 40 year old.
hi, great channel! im very interested in your ''particular'' style of judo (and newaza?) because im close to your weight, care to elaborate? thanks!
Hi! Where I train we never really banned leg grabs and we often do untimed ne waza (albeit we always start on the feet, there isn’t any guard pulling).
As for what I’ve generally build my game around, it’s Drop Tai Otoshi, Tomo Nage, O Soto Gari/Otoshi (both sides), and a couple sacrifice throws like Uki Waza. Frankly, I don’t think my style is awfully pretty, but it has let me hang with people about my weight class-although there are size differences that are definitely a lot more difficult to overcome.
Also, if you’re coming at this from a pure Judo PoV, I’d suggest looking at maybe 2 pins and really mastering them. They don’t have to be fancy, but they should be reliable to you. I think when you’re doing to do dropping and sacrificing stuff, the bare minimum you need is to know how to pin. If it’s a true Judo rule set, you’ll probably also need to investigate a turn over or two. Submissions are fine, but they can come later. For Judo, hold downs are broadly speaking more consistent means to victory. If you find yourself training in BJJ and you want to do hold down practice, you can either talk to your partner or just mentally count out the seconds in a pin-that’s something I’ve done over the years.
Other than that it’s just blending all that together. I’m not like a crazy seasoned competitor or anything, but usually drop Tai or O Soto scores a waza ari for me and you can cement the match with a pin.
If you want some video reference I’d check out Kashiwazaki’s instructional. It’s free on RUclips. It’s in Japanese, but I think it’s visual enough for anyone to get the gist. He isn’t a drop Tai O specialist, but he is a Tomoe and pin specialist. I took a lot of inspiration from him on a strategic level and still reference his film today.
Hope that help! If you’re looking for a Tai Otoshi reference, by the way, I set mine up similarly to Won Hee Lee, but I’m no where near good enough to stay standing and pull off the witch craft that dude did, hence the drop adaptation.
Good luck!
@@TenguMartialArts great reply! thanks a lot!
Nice video, share a lot of you feelings!
I love your openness to other martial arts, I mean let’s be real you spent 5000 hours spamming wristlocks in aikdo my dude…but I think you need to give this one another try.
I’ve seen a lot of judo guys who have a high rank or black belt go into a bjj class and get submitted by blues and purple belts and then never come back or complain that if it was a real fight they would have just punched the guy on bottom….you seem like a very rational dude but I think you may have fallen into this category with your experience.
Shooting for a double leg it’s very effective buts it’s not in the rules for judo so I don’t do them in judo class. That could of course be a point of criticism for that art but I don’t see you taking the same stance in regards to judo..
Yes there are techniques that are relatively useless outside the sport of bjj but the vast majority are applicable and almost all upper belts you could find will have a great understanding of both bottom and top games. This idea that a bjj will pull guard in the street is a bit dated and especially with the rise of nogi, wrestling and takedowns are apart of most classes.
Additionally, I think Jiu Jitsu is the only martial art that offers unique application with submissions/offense from the bottom position. I get the idea of not wanting to be below somebody in an altercation but the reality is that it can happen and then less you train there on a somewhat frequent basis it’s going to feel foreign and uncomfortable. This idea specifically aligns well with women’s self-defense as they tend to be smaller and weaker than men on average and in an altercation with a man will benefit from understanding these concepts.
Nonetheless I’m loving your content and it’s refreshing to see someone so knowledgeable on the history of martial arts. Keep up the great content!
I completely agree. One bad experience can change a view permanently. Personally I train BJJ with other athletes as well to see how it will work against someone throwing strikes or trying a ground and pound style. It’s not as impossible as people make it seem to deal with someone trying to pin and ground and pound or even just throw strikes from a semi dominant position. Always having to posture up to throw strikes for any leverage, opens up many opportunities that people who don’t train just won’t see. I believe as the saying goes, a martial art is only as effective as the practitioner. God bless. A similar argument can also be made to the multiple opponent myth with BJJ, if you use the art in a strict and rigid way then you will only be able to see and use it in that specific way. Open your view and then more pieces will connect.
Yeah yeah, belt over there and there, that is the only thing that made you continue un Jiu-jitsu, hey, and if someone who never trained ground work (Ne Waza) its obvious that gets submitted, if a Judoka is well skilled in ne waza he might beat any belt, even if took you 9 years to reached, it took them years too, and Jiu-jitsu the only one who offers a street fight real situation? What only stays on the ground, oh, an look at Morote Gari, Double leg takedown from Judo... and you have fall in your experience too if you think Tengu did it
Thank god somebody out there said bjj is not all that and a bag of chips. Yes, just casually taking the bottom like its just not a big deal is quite foolish in my opinion when less energy is expended on top. All my thought focus is entirely on realistic combat and if your on bottom your opponent will not always have a heavy jacket on which limits several movements. I have found that my balance was superior by a large margin while standing and countering for position before the ground game. When on the ground of course i got smoked as the new guy. I learned a great deal from bjj but the undying love affair as the perfect or superior martial art turns my stomach. Moderation in all things. Bjj is a feather in my cap along with other arts that make me what i am. Be a well rounded artist and be able to defend yourself in any position or situation.
Well said
On the topic of injury: I’ve got a nerve injury in my leg. This causes my leg to become suddenly numb or erupt into burning nerve pain. You can imagine that doing the taekwondo kicks I trained in is nearly an impossible task. Effectively delivering force when your balance is broken is not realistic. Ground fighting is not so bad.
I agree with the intensely boring comment. I tried out BJJ for a few lessons and had no motivation to stick with it bacause it just didn;t grab me. Newaza was always the part I liked least when I did Judo so I was probably kidding myself when I thought I might want to pick up BJJ.
Some generalizations coming at you here:
If I had to guess, the most popular martial art family in the US is karate (to include things like kempo, TKD, and TSD) but specifically an American style of karate developed 40-60 years ago by a Vietnam war vet who learned something while stationed in Okinawa, Japan, and Korea, and mixed it together, sometimes along with boxing or wrestling.
If those schools offer ground fighting at all, it's usually not the focus, and is watered down Judo or Japanese Jujutsu. Today though, we are seeing a change in that where these random Karate dojos offer ground fighting, and they either bring in something like a BJJ purple belt to teach it, or the instructor does his best to train in it online or maybe even at a different school, and incorporate it into his own lessons, either way still watered down, but now it's BJJ.
I hold a second degree black belt in ninjutsu, and it spent about half the time training in ground fighting, from a Japanese Jujutsu base. When I roll with BJJ guys, they are 1. Usually better than me but 2. Also get super weird about positions.
High level BJJ uses guards, positions and techniques that would never in a million years work, if they weren't doing just grappling, and therefore modern BJJ (not necessarily what was going on in the 90s in brazil) is very poor for self defense.
Don't believe me? Show me a real world application for a donkey guard, or land one of those spin on your back take down things when the guy is allowed to deck you in your face... Not that other arts aren't guilty of the same thing. (Look at kyokushins rolling thunder kick, for example)
... So I'm content to say, for self defense applications, you NEED to be comfortable on the ground. The question is that should you really spend so much time on the ground that you qualify for a black belt in BJJ, or are you good after about blue or purple belt?
Pulling guard therefore is also stupid. If I ran those competitions, I'd have to think that would be a non engagement penalty.
Anyway. Yes BJJ has a lot to offer on the ground. But American wrestling, judo, some Japanese Jujutsu, and other systems offer better options often times.
Or a similar stance; it's good as a secondary style for people. It's not efficient by itself. I say that about a lot of styles though.
Says that Japanese Ju Jutsu and Judo offer better options yet doesnt realize that judo *is* a form of ju jutsu. You do make some good points though. Judo is also watered down thanks to the Olympics.
@@chrisjackson8151 it's semantics, but unless you're prepared to say, sumo, Ninpo Taijutsu, Judo, Aikido, and Brazilian Jiujitsu at least are all forms of Japanese Jujutsu, then Its probably best to look at all of those as separate but related.
I'm not gonna die on that hill though so categorize how you want. I would say Japanese Jujutsu is just the granddaddy to all that, and Judo is probably the most direct descendant of JJJ's original intent. (throwing a guy in armor)
@@chrisjackson8151bjj is a subset of judo which is a subset of JJJ. Judo was watered down by Kano so it could be practiced full speed.
Which martial arts do you practice? Judo is one, and based on your videos I guess primarily japanese arts?
The bottom closed guard was a “oh shit” position the samurai would train in for emergencies. It was never meant to be a primary fighting position - it was also extensively trained in by women in samurai family. Samurai focused on the open guard - which is what Rickson Gracie has been pushing as the new standard for BJJ.
It's refreshing because in today's climate, criticizing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is generally strongly discouraged. Constructive criticism is beneficial for growth and improvement. Jujitsu (Japanese), Karate and other martial arts got their share for the last 15 years. From what i see, the various styles took notice and some are evolving. Bjj is going to be 100 years old, time to get a reality check.
have you seen the video where a guy joined a BJJ tournament and didnt do BJJ. he just stood there, and BJJ did NOTHING .
@@dbspaceodittyhe went against white belts, so they didn't really know BJJ neither
@@PlacidTanuki I have done that against purples. Karate had plenty of basic grappling in the systems, this is well documented, it is also well documented how it started to ignore these skills and pushed more towards a "boxing" approach especailly in Japan were it was billed as "Japanese Boxing" to try and stave off the rise of Western Boxing (which it failed to do)
How deep was your bjj experience? I am a Judoka first taekwondoin second but I found some love for bjj especially for its community. Still hate the grappling format. It’s like the Wild West of grappling only without horses and guns- only the herding part lol 😂
I train both Judo and BJJ, and IMO the fusion of the two is ideal. Judo has serious "martial art" problems on the same scale as your criticisms of BJJ. At least, this is the case in its modern and common expression. I think *ancient* Judo (we could say before 1950) retained more valid "martial art" value. BJJ has the advantage that it imposes very few limits -- a BJJka may expect to train for silly IBJJF rules, or MMA, or self defense, or whatever, and that means within the BJJ-sphere there is almost nothing that isn't in scope. That's its value to me... Judo adds the primacy of aggression, the standup game, and a more complete positional value system.
I'll take this from the perspective of someone with blackbelts in judo and bjj. Not engaging on the ground in a bjj class is the exact same as pulling guard in a judo class.
I see people cross over a lot, but many times I see them attempting to try to beat the other using the other. Beating judo using bjj, or vise versa. Both instances are examples of shitty students with a shitty attitude.
I can understand your frustration within the bjj community. But I came out of the the Minnesota Martial Arts Academy, we were a jiu-jitsu for mma school, traditional bjj if you will. In this I will point out the 4 rules of jiu-jitsu stated by Chris Haueter.
1. Be the guy on top
2. When on top stay on top
3. When on bottom have a guard thall shall not pass.
4. Never forget rule number 1
I will definitely admit the obvious flaws of modern bjj, but to say that the flaws in modern judo aren't any more dangerous is ridiculous. But that's for another debate.
Interesting thoughts. I think people frequently perceive the Judo vs BJJ question to be a question of which is better, when in actuality the truth is that they teach you different skills, with some cross over, and many of the skills being complementary to the other system. Training Judo will improve your BJJ and training BJJ will improve your Judo. Though I will admit as someone that started Judo in the 90's that modern Judo rules...with the leg grab ban...really has taken it down a notch in terms of raw overall interstyle grappling ability. Old school judo was much more beneficial for BJJ.
Good video
I feel you, though I have a diferent background. I only do/did no-gi training and feel like being able to survive against high ranked guys in a BJJ ruleset is enough BJJ.
Personally would add some stuff I did not like:
1) higher ranked guys crying about you using strength (hello? isn't this fighting?)
2) as I mentioned I only did no-gi, but it is actually hard to find a gym that will let you do no-gi only, at least here in Brazil. 9 out of 10 gyms will tell you you need to take gi classes to do the no-gi classes.
3) some black belts will do "cheat" stuff, like letting you face huge guys to gass you out and than roll with you lol. but this is not something specific to BJJ only
4) contrary to you, I actually hate the cultural aspect. I don't want to be forced to act like a Japanese if I am not one. the bowing stuff, and OSS calling and other stuff is cringy to me
Honestly, it sounds like you just tried to do judo in your BJJ class. As an instructor of Jiu-Jitsu I would find that irritating too. It would be like if I went to judo and only tried tomoe nagi all the time so I could enter newaza faster. That's completely legitimate under the rules, but kinda misses the point of training judo. As far as striking being most efficient in some cases, there needs to be done understanding that priority of controlling the opponent takes priority over damaging the opponent. If you are in a position where striking doesn't lose control, then you are also in a position where you don't really have to strike. Honestly the greatest thing to me about Jiu-Jitsu as a self defense tool is that it controls escalation of aggression better than any other Martial art I can think of. I can fight to get off the bottom and run, or I can fight to control and hold my opponent in a position where their ability to hurt me is minimized, or when they are in that position that I have control of I can choose to strike them, or I can choose to choke or break them.
This response echos a lot of the same sentiments I had watching the video. Good comment!
In that sense it is the best self defense martial art - sure, you can kill an attacker rather quickly with Muay Thai, boxing, wrestling, or judo, but where does that leave you? Sure, you won the meaningless street fight, great! Now you get to go to prison for years for manslaughter and excessive use of force. Bjj allows you to gain and maintain control of an opponent until the authorities arrive at which point you can walk free.
You say that using practical strategies an effective ones irritates you because being in the floor is more practical? Oh, and that sounds as someone who never did a Judo throw and never went to the stand up game ( Nage Waza), hey, and its Tomoe Nage, instead of Nagi, the accent english united statean dropped there
You spent time training Aikido but think BJJ is a waste of time.........tell that to the military and US Special forces that train it.
Ok, you're hurted, just admit it
@@KaitoYarikawa then WHY is BJJ common in military and special forces training and Aikido is not? Answer the question
@@elijahwilson1422 You know the USA special forces train it too, right? In Japan the do train it too, right? The police too, right? USA and Japan's too right?
They train more martial arts than only BJJ, they do train Judo too
I meant aikido of course
@@elijahwilson1422 The military does train it. It is just they cut down the techniques and only choose the ones that works. Nowadays, they just changing up the combat program. There is always a Joint-military session where the two countries exchange training techniques. The U.S. Army has an MMA program which is the Combatives Program. I knew a few people who took it up when they were in service and when they were no longer in serving, they ended up training in both BJJ or Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and MMA. The Japanese military does Nippon Kempo, Aikido, and Judo.
Yoshinkan Aikido is pretty special, good thing it is still taught to the Tokyo Metropolitan Riot Police. In the U.S. Yoshinkan Aikido is rare there are only a few out there but some of the organizations are a bit corrupted.
hi, great channel! im very interested in your ''particular'' style of judo (and newaza?) because im close to your weight, care to elaborate? thanks!
If you are look for a particular style there is only two. There is a lot of Judo schools nowadays that are under the IJF so they follow the curriculum, since the IJF is more sports and olympic style Judo. If you want to find a traditional Judo that is somewhat both follow the traditional sense and sports look up for organization called World Judo Federation or find a Judo school that teaches both illegal techniques and traditional techniques.
Jiu Jitsu teaches people alot of bad habits from grappling without pointing out the bad habits. But we don't do this with wrestling, we know there aren't submissions in wrestling.
You literally touched upon everything I wanted to say in a video...but better than I would've made it😂🥲