We Need to Discuss
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Link to the tweet in the video: / 1127935564274196480
Followup Video from Wolf the Red: • @TheWisdomOfOdin (Jaco...
Link to Declaration 127: www.declaration...
SPLC article on Volkism: www.splcenter....
Recognizing Fascism in Heathenry: northofannwn.w...
Heathen youtubers for you to check out:
Wolf the Red: / @wolfthered
Wind in the World Tree: / @windintheworldtree
So for this video, we're looking at The Wisdom of Odin and some statements that he has made both in the past and recently regarding Declaration 127 and the Asatru Folk Assembly, known as the AFA.
Patreon: / oceankeltoi
Twitter: / oceankeltoi
Twitch: / oceankeltoi
Instagram: / oceankeltoi
ending theme music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio
Wolf the Red made a followup to this video with a lot more information, turns out things are far worse than I knew when making this video. You can see his video here: ruclips.net/video/aTRTZ0zfWz4/видео.html
If you think the Ancient Norse Vikings, would tolerate Transsexuals, or even Homosexuals in their ranks, you are an idiot. These people worshipped STRENGTH, the rainbow crowd would be banished from their villages, racism is normal for Non Christians, ethnocentrism is in all peoples, it not right, but it is what it is.
Ready to admit you were fooled by the covid scam yet?
Ocean I fight them! Idc about who likes me or who doesn’t! You can’t condone behavior that’s morally wrong….
@@Mountaintopt Morals depend on the person
@@johnmctavish3544 ok. Doesn’t change what I said.
Note to self; Ocean has a scary mode.
And. It. Is. Awesome.
Well considered, well worded, well presented.
Thank you, Ocean.
nah. calling europein ethno things racist, is racist, you wouldnt say that about other races doing the same
@@audhumbla6927 Except you would. Paganism and Heathenry are religious in nature and not racial. We may think of it as uncommon but we don't see Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, ect. turning away people that aren't ethnically representative of the faiths region of origin, and the same stands for Paganism and Heathenism. The AFA is at it's core a white supremacist hate group and should be recognized as such.
@@T0B3Announc3d Ur wrong. all paganism is local and specific to its people. If a native american would say that only his people can practice his belief, you wouldnt say shit, so stop having diffrent standards for whites, thats racism. Paganism is ancestral.
@@T0B3Announc3d Judaism is the most racist religion on earth lmao.
Haitian Vodoun, Santeria, Palo Mayombe are all ancestral based faiths like Norse heathenry.
As someone who's recently come into exploring this path, I found him first.
I appreciate you bringing this forward.
With my mixed family, I am mad for not realizing this sooner.
I found him yesterday. Whoops.
I am in a similar situation
Means something to me on my journey. Then I edited to add one missing letter and lost it. And thus is how it works in what we call life. The quest for the unobtainable...perfection...typically leads to going from being as close as one can get w/o being to rolling one's ass into another zip code.
Sometimes I wonder if I am replying to the intended recipient!?
With a mixed family you've got bigger problems.
I've never considered myself to be a FAN of WoO, but I subscribed to his channel and watched most of his videos. The bigger his community grows, the more it gives off the feeling of turning more and more into a cult. I wasn't able to put my finger on it, but watching his content gave me very mixed feelings. After watching this video, I will unsubscribe WoO immediately and will share this message. This is so so so important! Thank you for putting this together!!
Totally agree.... only watched a couple of his videos... and just couldn't put my finger on what bothered me... but needless to say...don't watch his videos anymore... 🤷♀️
Yeah me too. The more I watched the more culty it got.
He’s giving me the vibe of someone who’s never belonged and probably was bullied and now overdoes it and gets high on power, I can’t take him seriously or respect him. Meanwhile ocean comes off as an amazing and respectable man just through his intellect and wisdom, he doesn’t have to be flashy or anything.
Isn't all religions a technical form of a cult tho, not starting an argument with anyone just my view on it
@@Cathy1864 Yeah gonna have to disagree with you there he had 2 females getting married at one of his gatherings .. but this video just seem to attack his choices of freedom like the Covid crap .. if your worried about Covid stay home .. Sorry but seems here Ocean is just punching down and twisting his words.. could Jacob have worded it better sure but .. Gender identity isn't fluid your one or the other that's biology ..
Thanks
OK could someone answer this question for me! I live with a Christian and a Jewish roommate I've had many conversations about religion and recently we've had quite a few conversations about the AFA due to them being in the news more. My Jewish roommate lived in Israel for many years and she had an interesting perspective on the AFA saying that you can't truly follow "Asatru" unless you are of northern European decent.. she pointed out that many Jewish people look down or don't really consider you a true member of the Jewish tribe if you convert because membership in the tribe is solely based of your decent. She also brought up how Hasidic Jews generally don't allow marriage outside of the tribe. She also said that she believes she has a deeper connection with her god because she can trace her family back to the 12 original tribes. So my question is this..why is it acceptable for other religions or cultures to allow or not allow conversion based on ethnicity or decent but when it comes to a Northern European religion it is considered deplorable. If you are Jewish or Muslim you can usually trace your heritage back to the 12 tribes or Muhammad (ie the Saudi royalty) however many northern Europeans are also able to trace their family back to the royal family's of northern Europe (ie the Danish and Swedish royalty trace their liniage back to King Gorm the Old who claimed decent from the Volsung tribe which in turn we are told by the Saga of the Volsungs was decended from Odin.) So again where do we draw the line with what is OK and what is not acceptable?
You should have heard the non sense the Southern Baptist Church taught back in the 1980's regarding the 12 tribes, the lost tribes, and how the children of Noah populated the world. Such as the Danes are the descended of the tribe of Dan. Young Earth creationist fluff.
Your Jewish friend doesn’t really represent the Jewish ideology, it sounds like Zionist rhetoric to me, especially likely if she was raised in the Israeli school system where they teach the racist genetic narrative, I should know I spent time there growing up. The Ashkenazim (Slavic Jews) have used that narrative against the Mizrahim (Arab Jews) to claim ethnic superiority and establish segregated schools and neighborhoods.
But there’s a reason why there’s these different “Jewish ethnic groups”, because they’re so heavily mixed with other non Semites, like Russian (Slavic) Jews, Amazigh (indigenous North African) Jews, Kurdish (Indo-Iranic) Jews, etc. these people are not even related to each other anymore. Only your mother has to be Jewish for you to be recognized, and it’s mostly the orthodox that still practice that, converts are more accepted now.
The Jewish law isn’t about genetics being passed down, Judaism allows for lots mixing, it’s about upholding the cultural and religious traditions, which is a duty allocated to the mother.
Many people in Europe have female Jewish ancestors, I’m German and I have them way back in my matrilineal ancestry, so by the law I could be recognized as Jewish if I wanted to, even though no one has been Jewish in my family for over 200 years. And even my best friend is half Polish (Jewish mother) and Irish, her synagogue recognizes her. And her husband is a heavily mixed Peruvian, so by Jewish law their children will be recognized as Polish-Irish-Spanish-Scottish-Quechua-Italian Jews, and will most likely be offered a “birthright” trip to Jerusalem even though they don’t have any ethnic Semitic ancestry or if they do it’s about 1% now. They would hold more genetic claim to Machu Picchu and Brú na Bóinne than to Jerusalem.
That whole genetic thing is a more recent racist “one drop rule” narrative adopted by zionists to validate the colonization of the Fertile Crescent and to treat native Semitic Jews (such as Syrian Jews) like second class citizens and appropriate their specific cultures as their own. It’s equivalent to Euro-Americans being like “I’m 1/36th Cherokee so therefore I get to wear a Navajo ritual headdress”.
Thank you for coming to my tedtalk
@@BunsBooks "Polish-Irish-Spanish-Scottish-Quechua-Italian-Jews" 🤣 excellent! Thanks for the reply I really wanted a differing opinion!
Because the white race is weak and being abused because of their weakness and naivety. Im Ulster Scottish and grew up in LA. There wasn't a day that went by where I wasn't reminded of my race. The most fervent antiracist "conservative" republicans who refuse to see race and to stick up for their own people seem to very densely populate the midwest and rural 99% white communities here in America. It is almost as it they have had it easy and havent had neighbors r*ped and killed.
Be it Odin or Christ. Both better send me to hell for not fighting for my people.
Because there is a war on whitey. Be ashamed and breed out your race.
So, new pagan here. Only reason I know of WoO is because the YT algorithm put him front and center in my feed. I personally found him a little too, woo woo for lack of a better term. Some information seemed ok but I kept searching being new to paganism and also being someone that likes to read and absorb information. As I've learned more I think WoO is just doing this for cash. Which by itself, ok whatever, but coupled with the AFA stuff and the seemingly predatory behavior of new pagans who are vulnerable as new pagans and will latch onto whatever "nice" face gets presented in front of them. And I think thats what this dude is doing, presenting a nice face and exploiting the vulnerable to get money while hiding his toxic behavior.
Edit: I want to say thank you Ocean for being a reliable source of information. I like the historical approach of what I have seen so far. I feel I have some differing political views but nothing that couldn't be talked over and I get the feeling you'd be down for that if we were in a situation we were talking one on one about it. Regardless, I appreciate your work. What I have seen so far.
Thanks ocean ,someone needed to tell him his views are not our views, and he really wasn't needed in the internet anyway he had nothing too teach ,no wisdom of Odin to pass on
I always felt like he was a bit show off like and i wasn't sure what i thought abt him but after this video I've made up my mind I'm glad i found ocean first
He literally has no connection to the afa, also im guessing you havent listened to his podcast he uses alot of the donations and puts it forward to buying land for a hall.
@@crushinnihilism “you’re a pagan role playing as a Viking” simply means someone who is a pagan, which can refer to a broad spectrum of different faiths, is cosplaying as a Viking, which for the Norse, was a job.
So essentially you’re saying “you’re a non Christian cosplaying as a Viking, just be atheist like a rational person.” Which I assume isn’t the message you were trying to send.
Im a former atheist who converted to Norse paganism. I know the general atheist view of reality(obviously there’s some differences between people since atheism is not a monolith). I know that trying to convince you of the validity of my faith is a pointless endeavor, so I will not try.
Instead, I’ll say this: this comment is no different from an evangelical Christian telling us to believe what they believe. Is that the energy you want to bring to a mature discussion?
@@crushinnihilism ah, my apologies. That comment looked suspiciously evangelical so I didn’t realize you weren’t being antagonistic
When he says he doesn't 'openly' support them makes it sound like he's slipping them twenties under the table or something.
"i don't OPENLY support them guys! not OPENLY!"
*asks steven mcnallen about how to celebrate holidays on twitter*
It's just a serpents way of saying "your too stupid to read between the lines"
saying you don't openly support someone kind of means you openly support them though ...
like, it implies you covertly support them, but obviously you just told everyone.
Well, he was a used car salesman before he got this gig, so...
@@phyllisdicks9830 I read that as "used car swordsman" XD
I used to follow Jacob when he first started the channel. He gave a warm welcome to the new people coming into heathenry while also putting a smile on my face.
It hurts to have to turn my back on the dude but well, Cult leader vibes.
All though I do hope he manages to see past his blindness as well as the toxic people around him.
You can call them toxic but atleast they stay in their lane . I find woke people patrolling and complaining about everybody else's opinions toxic. Waste of time.
@@OriginalFallofMind
Woke people don't "patrol", they call out the hate where they see it on their path. Being woke simply means to be aware of social issues, so proudly, that is what I am. If your opinions are called out as toxic, you are probably hurting someone.
@NoraMakesSounds Why don't they call out the hatred of goyim by the jews?
I recently converted to from atheism to Norse Paganism, and I’ve found myself on WoO’s channel a lot because I am still a beginner when it comes to the actual practices of the faith. Thank you for preemptively stopping me from going down the wrong path
Lol. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad person.
@@FableIVGaming It does, softy.
@@Dice_roller So to be a good person you have to be a Progressive and agree with every single tenet of that faith? Lol it's absolutely hilarious that you far leftists claim to be "pagan", actual pagans from the past would eat you for breakfast. Figuratively speaking of course, I'm not saying they were cannibals, I just mean they would not recognize you as kin. They would be disgusted by many of your beliefs and practices, and you would be disgusted by nearly all of theirs.
You did not convert to Norse Paganism. You already follow a religion. If I insulted Odin, you wouldn't care at all. But if I said something about race and IQ, you would be horrified and attack me as though I just blasphemed your god. That's because you are already a zealous acolyte in the Cult of Woke.
This honestly breaks my heart. I thought I finally found a group like his community to worship and practice with and I guess I didn't. Being in his discord and all that I still felt like I didn't fit in and some of the things being said gave a cult like feel to it. The group gatherings, the membership, a fundraiser for a hall, and so much more. Don't get me wrong I would love to attend those but it felt like a mini hierarchy was forming and it felt weird to me. It felt like I was back in the Mormon church, paying to worship and exist with my heathen family. Thank you for this and I'm kicking myself for not seeing this video sooner
Hierarchy is not an issue, that is a fundamental, meaning inescapable, part of all society. The issue is what that hierarchy is based on.
@@patrickbertlein4626im always suspicious when someone says hierarchy isn't the problem lolol you're gonna need to clarify what you mean because all hierarchies have the potential of tyranny built into the framework
@@eminentbishop1325 hierarchies are a natural part of any social structure, even if implicit. Yes, it has potential for tyranny, but it also brings order to chaos. Nothing is absolutely good or bad. There is a right dose for everything, and hierarchies are no different. A healthy hierarchy benefits everyone, while an unhealthy one turns into tyranny indeed
@@victor_bueno_br hierarchies are not natural. Its a conceptualization of reality, not reality itself. What people define as hierarchies is just a means to organize information into a definitional framework, which in itself it can limited i.e. you defining it as a natural process when hierarchy isnt something that exist in the natural world. Its not as if animals purposely organize themselves into these systems. The systems are just tools we use to simplify complex sets of data and the hard truth is that the spectrum of truth is far wider than it can intuitively seem
@@victor_bueno_br but i should say i dont necessarily disagree. Social systems seem to organize along those lines. How natural that is or a representation of a good for society i think is that gray area of discussion
I’m truly gladdened to know I have a brother who thinks like me. Just found you! Already a fan brother.
Agreed. It's really nice to hear all this.
i agree
@@aaronhuntsman7176 yes? What do you want?
As a lifelong atheist who has recently been teetering on the edge of finding some form of faith stumbling across your videos while searching for intersectional pagans, I really can’t thank you more for making your stances on racism, nationalism, homophobia, and responsibility to your community so clearly and firmly stated. So, seriously, thank you so very much. I’m glad I came across your channel.
ou do know that Vikings didn't accept LGBT+ People, It was considered an insult, If you google the word "Eigir" you'll learn how Vikings nor Oden would accept a trans or LGBT person into asgard, You were given your gender by the gods when you were born and it should stay that way, stop trying to be special. It doenst matter what these people think, History is History and you would've been killed for you actions back in the day.
You're young and ignorant, you'll grow out of it, but dont expect Allfather to turn his eye towards you until you accept who you are, which is the gender you were born with.
It pisses me off that people like you "Look into Paganism" You're the ones making our religon look like a joke to the outside world and you are the reason we'll never be taken serious, If you're a man Thor will beat his hammer until you find yourself back to your masculinity and if you're a woman, may Freja guide you back to your Nurturing and Loving Feminine side. End of Discussion.
Sincerely Whilliam Nilsson
and that’s what turns people away from faith, as I have, even as a straight cis male. If that is how the gods really are, they deserve nothing more than sneering contempt, and you deserve even less than that.
This is how the gods really die, they simply outlive their usefulness. After all, _we_ created _them,_ not the other way around, and we just as easily snuff them out. Götterdämmerung, literally.
Even with his mistake and poor practices, I do have to thank him for helping me in my early days of the faith, which did in turn lead me to you. It is sad to see someone go down a path of poor decisions. But I am glad to be informed of his mistakes before I got lost in them myself. Thank you.
@Anglo-Saxon believing in something like gods or mythology is literally belief / faith what are you on about
you cant say, that ones practice is poor thats wrong
I just came across this video and have been watching your channel to get a better understanding of norse heathenry (my boyfriend is a heathen and is actually on your discord server). I greatly appreciate this video as one of the things that made me, as a Jewish person, incredibly nervous when my SO started exploring heathenry was the ties it has had to the alt right. He actually told me about this video and I've come to see so many heathens speaking out about the AFA and it's put me so much at ease. I also just want to be as supportive as I can.
as a dane, i find this butchering of my and my ancestors belifs wildly offensive to me. (dane, from denmark, in scandinavia) if any was wondering. good vid my dude
As a fellow Dane, I wholeheartedly agree. Nothing in the sagas or Eddas mention Volkish rhetoric. There are many archeological finds of Viking Corpses of other ethnicities, meaning being a Viking was more so cultural than ethnic.
As an American who just started practicing.. my sincerest apologies for my shithead country. I wanted to connect with my ancestors and find some sense of identity outside of my Christian upbringing and I’ve been utterly distrusted learning how it’s practiced here in the states. I live in the northwest, in one of the most progressive and accepting cities in the country, and everyday I see ravens. I do not think this is a coincidence. I believe the Aesir are with those who worship regardless of anything else.
@@neurohackstv5723 not to mention that there have been graves found with people who were at very least gender nonconforming if not somewhere on the transgender/non-binary spectrum.
@The Bearded Dragon gender nonconforming just refers to people who do not conform to cultural gender norms, so like a woman doing an assumed male task like joining a raiding force, they are still women. We call them tomboys nowadays. No need to be offended, it's not a new idea.
Here I was quoting the interpretations of grave goods by professional archaeologists in reference to female warriors being explicitly buried with grave goods associated with male warriors and not shield maidens and regular female warriors. There have also been viking graves of non-combatant males buried in female clothing and with female-associated goods. These people may have just been defying gender roles or they may have been what we call transgender now. There have also been rare graves associated with individuals with a mix of gendered grave goods. We also know from text that Loki's gender descriptors and pronouns change when in a female form, indicating explicite gender fluidity, compared to when Thor disguised as a woman, but still referred to explicitly as male.
It is hard to say much on people being explicitly transgender, nonbinary, or gender fluid, especially as these explicit descriptors are recent. There is an enormous body of evidence of what we call transgender and nonbinary people existing throughout human history in non-viking cultures. Gender variance was generally better tolerated in pre-Judeo-Christian cultures. Because of this, gender variance and gender role defiance was demonized in Judeo-Christian holy texts. Generally, if a group is not othered or demonized, humans don't come up with special words for them, since they're seen as unusual parts of the norm.
(Also, the exisrence of transgender people is not a load of bull. It is well documented that there are metabolic and physical brain morphology differences between pretreatment transgender and cisgender people, biology says non-cisgender people are real).
I know that the existence of transgender people is the hot new culture war, but that doesn't mean that we might possibly have existed among the viking population.
@The Bearded Dragon oh, yes, women serving in the Marines would be considered gender-nonconforming as it's not commonly expected for a woman to enter military service, and usually actively discouraged. This has nothing to do with her brain's gender or her instinctual sexual preferences.
I have been apart of the Heathen community for a year now and for the last two months I was a Patreon member of Wisdom of Odin. I was blinded by the need for a community and did not pick up on the way Jacob talked and how he discussed certain topics until I was shown Aliakai's video about 3 days ago. I then began looking at your videos along with Red the Wolf. I thank you for this information because I was introduced to Heathenry when I worked in corrections and saw it used as a white supremacists movement. I have worked very hard this last year when I told people I was Heathen to make sure they understood that I support all sexual orientations and races because I would be asked about that alot when people found out about my path in the old ways. So again thank you for the information and I look forward to obtaining more knowledge from open minded Heathens.
I have to congratulate you on being able to acknowledge where you made mistakes or didn't spot red flags. That can be really difficult. Ocean's discord (Ocean's Hold) is an excellent place to start with a solid community.
@@OrganisedChaosHere do you know how to join? I made similar mistakes for the same reasons
@@kassietheobald9165 If you look in the description of any of the omnipotent beard podcast episodes, there's a link labelled discord. That link should let you join. There's a pretty active entry point to chat in which is a few channels while the mods get a feel for you (protects us against bigots) and once you get past that point the server is a whole lot bigger.
This is the first time I've heard of any of these people or the AFA. Then again I'm British and my focus has been on reading the eddas and learning about the Gods
Hey wookie, I'd stick to that ,these organisations are just nuts
@The Wookie
Good focus, my friend! That's my own, as well.
Same bro because when things become huge and organized things branch out and big problems occur just keeping doing what your doing be yourself by yourself is the best way.
This is the first instance of the AFA being brought to my attention as well and I am deeply disturbed that they have such an appaling view of this kind. Honestly I was unaware that issues of this kind existed in heathen society.
@@sabeydanielgmailcom I'm kinda the same. I was aware that the NatSocs and WS had seized some symbols and used the Gods in "heretical ways" but I wasn't aware of a formal organisation doing it until I watched this
This is a great video especially since YT pushes his videos on Norse paganism. I recently started looking into Norse paganism and watching some WoO videos did nothing sit right with me. Coincidentally afterwards I came across Aliakai and her video which confirmed my suspicions.
Hey, I've got a similar experience. Its like a BS detector went off listening to him.
I recommend downloading the app "Pagan and Witches Amino" its helped me.
Alikais video on this subject was recommended to me like right after a video I watched of him disturbed me. The gods know what they’re doing.
Yeah his vids seemed kinda cool at first but the more I watched the more something has started to feel a little off. At first I thought he was just a bit of a show-boating type, and he seemed maybe a bit arrogant. I had not gotten to any of his videos where he said any of the stuff sited in this video though, and just..... wow. I'm not familiar with Aliakai, I'll have to take a look at her vids.
I watched one full episode and a couple segments of his channel and had too much cringy creepy crawlies to go any further, not to mention he just sounds like a dick.
This was like watching my favorite history teacher tear apart the class clown for not paying attention. It was fun to see your angry side for once and I have to say, I've never seen a man be so angry yet so calm at the same time.
@Anglo-Saxon Idk why?
My first introduction to Heathenry was WoO(Yes, I know he and his lot are Asatru) then I got a good feel for his community and dipped. I found your videos shortly after and they are quite helpful.
Well damn. Ocean's got an intimidating streak to him. He's usually so calming that I didn't see that coming.
It was a necessary point though. While unity is a largely good thing, there are some people you just can't afford to unify with as is. Besides, bigotry is inherently exclusionary. Unifying with them in excluding everyone they are bigoted against.
Thank you Ocean. As a minority myself, it means lot to see you take a stand for us. ❤
@Bean Oak There is nothing intelligent about you! (Ocean struck a nerve, snowflake?)
"intimidating" LOL
I went into this video as WoO fan, but after this, I sadly can't watch and support Jacob any more. I will say, He has some good videos, But he has some shitty associations that I simply can't stand by or even try to justify. This is very disheartening information to hear.
I’m the exact same as you, but glad I know this info now so I don’t waste my time as a new pagan
I'm in the same boat. I even recommend him and I've just finished sharing this video with those people and hope they follow suit and stop support him.
Same. I've been on this path for 11 years and stumbled across Jacob's work a few months ago. I've watched the majority of his videos but had not listened to the podcasts, and I am not active on twitter, so I missed this troubling information.
I'm sure Ocean ended up in my recommends because of WoO, and I'm wary of new sources but his "Viking puppers" video won me over :D Yes, Fenrir is a good doggo. I've since subscribed here and been exploring the channel - and honestly I've actively avoided this video while I determined whether I felt I could trust Ocean's content. Here I am, and I am shocked and dismayed. I have enjoyed Jacob's conversational style and the relative safety and casual nature of his video topics (something I can watch without feeling the overwhelming urge to take notes). Not sure I'll stay there much longer, at minimum I won't be recommending his work to anyone until he speaks out on this topic
I was apart of WoO patreon and discord for a few months before one day I cancelled everything and left without a word. I have never personally spoken to Jacob but there is a vibe in his groups and with his content that is very specific. I felt like I had to follow Jacob's path of paganism to fit in. If you aren't in the clique then what you have to say is overlooked and I was left feeling degraded and confused. Luckily I've been sucked into spiritual blackholes before and pulled myself out pretty easy but I can imagine that new pagans and lonely practitioners really let this type of thing flood their mind. It's a sticky situation that's for sure
He claims to have had a vision of Odin telling him to "gather the folk." 🙄 Yeah, ok, guy
His name is Jacob. Idk why that makes me laugh as hard as it does.
@@proudsaiyanprince2651 I looked up what Jacob meant as a name and now I'm laughing too! :D
heaven forbid someone has a religious experience when practicing a religion. you're just an atheist LARPer.
Yeah, its funny
I’m not Heathen but I’m fascinated by the religion and love learning more. What you said about WoO was facts man, we need more good people like you in the world, period.
Well then you are not learning, just joining the mobs.
Hey all, what are some non-problematic Heathen RUclipsrs y’all would recommend? There’s Ocean and Wolf, obviously, but for people new to Heathenry (Hi everyone), it can be kind of difficult to sort out the bad apples...
@Kyladescope I can vouch for Wind in the Worldtree personally. He's a good man and extremely intelligent and thoughtful in his observations.
Arith Härger
Sarenth Odinsson is good too.
Skaldi is a good one
As mentioned by others Arith Harger has great factual historical info, and he has openly addressed many of the issues talked about here regarding ancient Norse attitudes on homosexuality and gender as being nothing like AFA. If you want in depth information from a truly intelligent and kind person you’ll like him.
Well said! No Frith to the Folkists!
The very literature as recorded, or even quoted from the Christian clerics, is explicitly racist. If you didn't play Skyrim you would be advocating the burning of the Sagas.
We never asked for your frith liberal
@@runemasterhariwulfaz5267 Be my runemaster.
@@Arnaere always :)
It's really nice to find a creator who has addressed this so directly. I don't mean Wisdom of Odin, I mean the whole concept of race and acceptance in the community. Involving myself in this community I was given a word of warning to stay on high alert for the predatory and problematic sides of the religion, and thus far you're the only person who has taken the (correct) stance of acceptance within the community. Thanks.
hell yes hail to ocean keltoi
6:30 "...you can either placate them, or fight them. And as we've seen, there isn't another option"- Well, there _is_ another option, actually. You can ignore them. And make them irrelevant.
Nithings.
Issue is if you ignore them sometimes the ignoring basically means "Oh they don't care and thus they won't stop us so we're going to do it more" and that causes other problems... Shit like this can't be dealt with by schoolyard rules. Of course at the same time "Fight Them" doesn't have to be smear campaigns or physical violence. You can "Fight" people by doing a lot of things that aren't detrimental to people around them.
OK, I've got an honest hard question... I've never been to a group blot, but I've been a practicing pagan for about 2yrs now. Why can't all of us just be fine with our ancestors? Why do my "white" germanic ancestors matter, to anyone else but me? If your "black", are your ancestors not just as important to you? Whatever you are, wherever your from, is important, because it's what you come from. Can we not all respect that and praise that idea. And give reverence to all ancestors? Why does one have to be more "true" than the other to some people?? Why the comparison? You do you and I do me, and we respect each other when we meet for dinner or blót, what's so hard about that?
BTW, I think mostly ancestors matter most when you know/remember them specifically. I do not know King Harold, other than stories, so... what would this matter if I was relation without knowledge of that ancestor specifically?
I think the problem here is even AFA say you do you and i do me, they do not seek to impose their worldview on anyone but themselves, they just want to remain separate and isolated like many faiths, especially Native American ones which were a big influence on McNallen. This video condemning them however is trying to force other people to conform with their beliefs and worldview
@@fritjofvalerijs800 I agree. If a bunch of people want to form a spiritual or religious group that excludes certain people, ok; let them. As long as they're not forcing people to join them and don't abuse or attack others, I see no problem. I feel that attacking these sort of groups only validates, in their eyes, any concerns or fears they may have. If they want to separate themselves from others, peacefully, let them. In a way, making videos condemning a group I probably would not have found out about otherwise is just free advertising for them.
@@kalinora3901 Interesting view which should be discussed at a table, because I do see your point as well as I can understand ppl feeling threatened by this group. I'm with you though that I wouldn't have heard about the AFA most likely without some of Ocean's videos and me personally, I couldn't care less about them.
The issue with this is when honoring your ancestors turns into thinking that your skin color makes you superior to every different skin color out there. Groups like the AFA with racially exclusionist philosophies rarely stop at 'merely' being exclusionist, and often act as a foundation to more extremist views and possible activities; it's not a coincidence that many members of the AFA have also been found to be members of more radical Volkish and supremacist organizations (and are a big reason for the rise of heathen symbols among neo-Nazi and fascist groups).
Man keep up the great work. WoO pushes innacurate information which took me months to find out by myself. I applaud you and Aliakai for being courageous for speaking the truth. Wassail!
Which "inaccurate information" exactly?
@@alfredharrison597 pretty much everything. All the information he quotes from either come from outdated books with outdated innacurate information or is his personal take on aspects of the faith that don't match to what the history and texts state. And worse he is racist.
@@luchadorelmachomalo Oh no not the 'R' word. Pretty much everything in heathenry and paganism is peoples interpretations and opinions on text that even the oldest, were second and third hand accounts of stories
No frith with Nazis!
I admire Stephen, he is a great man.
thank you for speaking out on this, Ocean. eloquently put together. I've been so hesitant in my call to the Norse deities at times because I'm gay and honestly -- so many parts of the community scare me. But your videos are gems and give me hope and comfort I can find my own space. Thanks, man.
you should not be alloued to practice Asatru as gay. It is literally contradics the core principle of traditional family within Asatru religion. It is appauling.
@@IamAWildMan Luckily, I don't practice asatru.
@@IamAWildMan Maybe within the AFA, but there are plenty of other groups that don't followed that bigoted idea
News flash, if youre gay , youre not a pagan
@@optimalrefundable you practice judaism
I hope the Algorithm really picks this up, its important. This is the nail in the coffin really. He has no excuse and he cannot meet the bare minimum. He should know better and he wants to pretend he does, which he clearly doesn't. Thanks Ocean.
Well, glad I found this channel first. You have helped me understand more as a new Norse pagan. Im glad to know about the AFA I will be very sure to avoid them. Seems as though they try to hide their hate with our faith. Thanks for spreading knowledge not hate.
Are white people not allowed to have anything for themselves? Everything we have has to be partially available to nonwhites? Seems racist and hateful.
@@piglice4585 Well explain why it has to be a white only religion. No other religion in the world restricts white people from religion. I see white in most religion if not all and they dont bitch. SO YOU DO YOU NEED A RELIGION ALL FOR YOURSELF?!?! Theres already group for that called the KKK.
@@piglice4585 Hail the gods and worry about your own standing with them... No better than an extreme liberal telling people how they should and shouldn't live. Live ya own fucking life and worry about yourself. Do you even attempt to actually worship these gods or do you use the gods to spread your racist hate. Not wise fella not wise.
@@CoachJeff-i6u Be it Christ or Odin. Both know what is in my heart and I know what is right. I would be a liar and unkind to tell you I felt the white race is not something worth preserving as unique from the rest of the world. And all of our creations and traditions with us my friend. Be it Christ or Odin. Both know I would be a coward if I wasn't willing to fight for this cause that I know is just. If you believed in "living ya own fucking life" you wouldn't be religious in any way shape or form and you wouldn't be correcting my belief.
@@piglice4585 welp okay then keep on ruining it for the rest of us. I'm pretty far from woke and don't support the movements but I for sure am not about to sit here and think I'm special over skin color. I'm white as hell myself but I'm not about to tell any black person or Spanish person or Asian person or any person they can't follow the faith and call them selves Asatru. I have a hard time believing your this his holy warrior of white. IM LEANING MORE TOWARDS DELUSIONAL WHITE BOY WHO ONLY CARES ABOUT THEMSELVES. It some how hurts you if a person of color worships Odin which I'm not sure I have even met one have you. You special white people ruin it for all us other white people who actual give sacrifice, time, devotion, effort. It seems your more interested in being superior than worshipping any gods. I'm tired of everyone thinking I'm racist because I worship Odin. It's because of you idiots they even feel that way. But it's okay. I'll keep informing people you don't have to be a racist dick to worship the Asier and you sure as hell don't have to be white... Like Ocean here.
Ummm "the afa keep to themselves" not really, had M.N and members of the afa attack my Celtic group on fb because we openly welcome gays
Someone doesn't know their own mythology then.
For example when Loki turned himself into a female horse and gave birth to Sleipner, Odin's eight-legged horse. It doesn't seem very LGBT-unfriendly.
@@georgegrimnirsson2017 well, it's a social group and have a structure so... what's the problem? Of course it's different from having a real life group but it's still a way of studying and socialize.
Hey, just wanted to say don't worry about that troll trolling your group structure. They probably have no social life to speak of at all 😂
@@1987ashgriff Agreed.
@@aidanpaim805 Just was going to ask if you had joined Ocean's discord yet, I'd like to know more about this group.
I'm currently agnostic (used to be Catholic) and looking into other religions and what really baffles me with Jacob Toddson is how he reacts to criticism. I told him in the comments of a video that he's spreading lies about Catholicism and that he should do more research on this topic (since he comes from a protestant backround) and he literally called me a brainwashed. Kind of bad how he treats his viewers who criticize him. I unfollowed him because of his very imature reaction.
If only Japanese can truly be Shinto, why shouldn't only Germanics be Asatru?
Stephen Mcnallen sounds exactly like a christian scamvangelous preacher....
I'm still a bit of a Heathen hatchling right now, and I started my research and experience in the community through woo and I became a patron and signed up for the yule gathering but as of recent I've been discovering videos left and right exposing woo and his community, thank you for opening my eyes to the truth about woo and leading me to canceling my patron subscription and leaving his discord server
I would like to begin by saying that I am a part of the Wisdom of Odin community and I denounce the AFA or any organization that promotes racism, homophobia, sexism,transphobia or any kind of bigotry.
I would like to make a distinction; Jacob is not seen as the end all be all source of information on norse paganism, nor is he considered our supreme leader or something crazy like that. We respect him because he brought a bunch of pagans together into a loving and inclusive community, but we are all free to have our own paths and find wisdom from whatever sources we please. Additionally, his inaction when it comes to signing Declaration 127 does not mean he is racist/sexist/homophobic etc; the first rule in the WoO discord guidelines is that no discrimination is allowed against anyone based on race, sexuality, or gender etc. Neo-Nazis or people with similar beliefs are immediately banned. Many admins have publically made statements against discrimination and groups like the AFA. Jacob himself has denounced bigotry in a RUclips community post and on his Instagram.
As someone who is part of the LGBT community I would be the last person to be part of a group that felt unsafe or pushed discriminatory beliefs of any kind.
So before jumping to any conclusions, please take the time to remember that a whole community shouldn't be labeled badly because one person in it decides not to sign a document.
It's not just the document tho. Sure, by outward posts and appearances he seems very inclusive. The problem is he remains vague in his statements. Also he allegedly has friends he wants to be in his circle for either the sake of money or unity. These members seemed secretive or being on the DL for their views. Why keep people with unsavory views in the community even if they're just simply lurking?
Why hasn't he gone into depth of the issues with AFA besides them being "too formal"?
In fact, why is it community members defending him against criticism as oppose to him giving out a statement? Yeah there's a community post, but why isn't continuous or enforced?
Thank you for denouncing tho.
You should check out Aliakais recent video on him because some of your claims about what he does and does not support do not seem accurate based on his actual documented actions.
And for someone you claim is inclusive he seems surprisingly incapable of categorically condemning the AFA for their bigotry. In fact he wasn't even capable of condemning them at all. His actual statement makes it pretty clear that he actually does support them, he's just not going to be open about it because of might scare people like yourself away and he'd lose some of that sweet patreon grift money.
You know that whole "NPC" meme that the liberal left hates so much? Well, you are seeing that meme live and in the flesh right here, right now, in these youtube comments. Someone who is a "prominent figure in this movement" decided to attack someone else because they didnt do what they were expected to do and all the nice little yes men and women and followers who have no critical thought of their own are bowing their heads and nodding in compliance and repeating the mantra "WoO racist, orange man bad!". Don't believe me? JUST READ THESE COMMENTS! Its almost like its the same script with words changed around ever so slightly to make you THINK its all different people, but how can it be different people WHEN ITS A HIVEMIND MENTALITY!
@@Vivi2372 "...on his actual documented actions?" WHAT ACTIONS? WHY ARE PEOPLE "DOCUMENTING" WHAT THIS GUY IS DOING? FOR FUCKS SAKE!
Thank you for this, i am very new to norse paganism but i come from punk rock and this is a very similiar fight the struggles of true skinheads. Thank you for this information, I feel much more confident and welcomed as a queer person. This honestly means a lot. ❤
Thank the Gods for this video and all the resources listed. Sometimes this ocean of information is difficult to navigate, especially when you’re new. Thanks so much.
Makes sense now why he won't fully harshly condemn the AFA. What a bad look. WoO should NOT be posturing as a leader within the movement with his shitty behavior, let alone his lack of knowledge on the topics he tries to present. As said at the end in regards to the AFA, WoO is also free to stand alone.
they don't care about your woke cancel culture.
Didn't really have much of an opinion of the guy (only seen maybe 5 of his videos) but I'm glad this is being brought up. At least the RUclips algorithm is finally recommended channels from more communities of Heathens. Prior to this I had no idea your channel existed. I look forward to seeing more from your channel.
No frith with folkists! Love it.
Thank you for this eye opening WoO was the first hethan content channel I came across well I was referred to them by a friend. Anyway I'm glad to be here to experiance your content. I find the structer of your videos and the way you speak to be quite captivating and well thought out and organized. Thank you for the information ocean.
3:12 This is definitely true. When I first started looking into Heathenry, his channel was one of the first I found. But he didn't sit right with me, personally. Luckily, I found your video about the significance of wearing a Mjölnir, and you've been my main source of learning since then (along with books, of course.) Keep doing what you're doing, man.
As a new pagan:
Someone speaking in such vague and ambiguous terminology as the fundamentalist group i was raised in, there are red flags.
Someone speaking as a leader or authority on information or insight while looking being so new, also a huge red flag.
Requiring some kind of contribution to be a part of a religious community, huge red flag.
No. So much no. So many red flags. I would practice my faith by instinct before I listened to a breath from him.
I really agree with your point about requiring (monetary) contribution to be part of the community. It frankly feels like the start of a cult, and people should be very, VERY careful about that kind of thing. From an outsiders perspective, WoO is setting himself up as a figurehead
@@TheLizander Yes because people who dont agree with YOUR worldview (or others) are cultists. Got it!
@@alfredharrison597 lmao, you could interpret what I said that way, I suppose. That just kind of shows how defensive you’re feeling though. Gate keeping philosophy or religion through financial means instantly pollutes the movement. Furthermore, he’s creating an echo chamber that selects for people who are willing to pay him money.. That’s about as bad as the televangelists who sell tap water through the TV.
WoO is in a more complicated position than other personality or even philosophy based RUclips channels. Heathens have generally rejected mainstream religion & everything that goes along with it. Why is he trying to commercialize information and community, like the christians have with their faith? Until WoO proves that the money donated is going to the construction of his hall, and not his own living expenses, I’ll maintain my position.
@@TheLizander So because I throw shade BACK AT YOU im being "defensive"? How about I say all of you are attacking and being antagonistic wanting to call out this guy for not doing something you want him to do. He doesnt owe any goddamn one of you an excuse about anything, yet you all act like he does. YOU ALL are being divisive, YOU ALL are being toxic, YOU ALL are attacking this individual and yet he has not said ONE FUCKING WORD ABOUT ANY OF YOU. Before you throw shade on someone for not living up to you expectations, LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR FOR ONCE.
The sheer irony of saying people are "trying to divide our community" by denouncing an organization clearly set on ousting people from the community based on race, sexuality, and gender identity. WoO has made his side of the divide fairly clear.
The whole point of paganism is that it's exclusive. There is nothing wrong with exclusivity. Pagans are interested in reawakening the religion in their own people but they are not interested in preaching and spreading the belief system around the world to Africans, Asians and South Americans.
It is entirely based on race you fool...its a native european tradition! This isn't Christianity
@@zekun4741 you are correct sir
the pagan community should be a safe place for all people no matter your sexual orientation, gender, race, culture, or nationality. we can and all should be able to be who we are.
Considering many Pagan communities (Not just Norse but Irish, Welsh and various others that are too multiple to list) were outright obliterated, attacked, persecuted and more for basically "not being Christian" i'm fairly sure that if anyone should make a safe place for someone who isn't "standard" it should be Pagans. Who else would know what it's like to be forced out because you don't fit into someone or some god's pretty little box?
The "they're wrong by the way" after talking about the AFA's position on Trans people made me feel so so happy, you're such an amazing guy!
Thank you for sharing this information, I am new to Norse paganism and I’m lgbtq. So I’m trying to find my place here, this helps a ton.
Look, some pagans are pro LGBTQ while some are anti LGBTQ
Welcome! I'm not new but I'm part lgbtq as well. Glad to see more Lgbtqia+ coming into heathenry, you don't stand alone in this!
@@dapperspaghettimonster also there was this capitol rioter that is heathen I think and hes a republican. Also the Nazis were very supportive of paganism since they liked their roots.
@@dapperspaghettimonster thank you so much !
@@Hazelthenerd please don't ignore my comment you ignorant
Sacrificing this post to the algorithm as engagement 🔥🤷🔥
I would think the wisdom of Odin would include the observation, "Getting your followers sick is a good way to lose followers" but I only have the wisdom of common sense :(
Honestly, sometimes I feel like people who don’t openly condemn groups like that are worse than the groups themselves. Because they normalize that bullshit and allow it to continue.
Exactly the issue
All it takes for the triumph of evil is for good folk to do nothing
@@Project_Algiz read up on McNallen's theories on heathenry and race and come back to me
yup. dr. king’s famous letter from birmingham jail heavily condemn the white moderate, even saying that the klan and brutal cops aren’t the “true” enemies-that the people who say that they’re “politically moderate/indifferent,” the ones who say they agree with your goal but can’t support your methods, are the enemies. silence is violence.
@@Project_Algiz Shame there doesn't seem to be a forthcoming response to this post. I'm kind of new to it all, but I'd like to know what the issue with implicit or even explicit in-group preference is. As far as I see it, from this video the AFA don't seem to advocate violence towards other people. If they do, I'd very much like to be informed.
I’m so glad I found you, wolf the red, and wind in the world tree. Thank you for the guidance.
I merely got this video recommen ed and this old geezer (Mcgallon) is absolutely crazy.
Great vid btw
as a young trans person dipping my toe in norse paganism, i had no idea woo has been doing any of this, and im really glad you made this video, it makes me feel safe and cared for as a new member of the community
Lol
I so appreciate this video. I've been a witch for years but am recently drawn to study norse paganism, and am loving your videos. I extra appreciate that you take a strong stand against all the racist bs from these people and clearly call it out. Thank you.
As a complete non-Asatruar, the entire dialogue presented in this video looks ridiculous and wholly unappealing. Politicizing your religion into various sub communities only shows that there is no transcendent basis, but merely another worldly ideology. Another 'community'.
All the politics and “holier than thou arts” reminds me why I’ve always been a solo practitioner. You have people talking about grading moral superiority based hatefulness of a hate group.
Got here from Suris's channel. Same for Aliakai's channel. Glad to know you. Subscribed.
Not going to lie, when I first stepped into this faith, I wasn't too fond of you because I had already been a pretty strong follower of Jacob's channel, having been inclined to watch his videos as I entered Heathenry. So, seeing this video a while back was somewhat dampening on my introduction to Heathenry, but as I have grown out of that honeymoon phase of things, my perspectives have changed and I find myself more like-minded to you than a lot of others I see and I have come to see Jacob or The Wisdom of Odin as what they really are. So, thank you.
Has a new Pagan and someone who has struggled with Christianity and also as someone who really is not white at all, I know I have mostly Hispanic heritage but I have never taken to it and I have honestly always loved the Pagan Outlook compared to Christianity. Have always been terrified of Gatekeepers so it's nice to see people open about sharing their own Heritage and beliefs
So sick of this self hate be proud of yourself and your people
I kept thinking the dude was saying Voltron.
Part of the issue of perception is these terms are too loosely thrown around. 'Transphobic, mysoginistic, ethnocentric' etc.
Many faiths around the world would fall under those categories, not least many Native Americans who exclude all people from their ceremonies who are not 'one of them'
No one would call the Native Americans racist for keeping their faith exclusive and isolated, the only reason to level the accusations at the AFA is modern lefty political correctness.
Let them do their own thing, is a measured stance. We need to challenge them disavow them etc, is not when you would not give the same treatment to the many other faiths and groups that claim the same sort of ideas. Heathenry becoming Woke and adhering to radical left wing ideologies undermines it like it undermines all organisations it creps into
You know, people like you make me realize just how stupid the majority of humanity really is. And by that, I mean you specifically and people who think like you.
Amen brother, you said what I was thinking while listening to the video and reading ( most ) of the comments. I grew up in Norway and I'm happy my parents gave me an old Norwegian name ( Ottar ).Why can all other groups claim exlusivity, and be applauded for it, but if you're a white European you're racist?
As a heathen living in the southern U.S. and as a person who works with inmates I have been called everything imaginable. I have been slandered both at work and at home as a racist and misogynistic man. I was not aware that declaration 127 even existed, but now that I have been informed of it I will be reading it in its entirety. I denounce anyone who believes that white people or black people are superior over the other. Odin is the Allfather, not the Some Father. Thank you Ocean. You have given me much food for thought.
Not sure how I'm just now finding your channel, but your work here is probably the best thing I've yet seen on all things Heathen. As a fellow traveler on the path of Odin, I really can't express to you how happy it makes me to see our shared beliefs explained and explored in such an in depth and researched manner. I especially applaud you for your lack of bullshit in addressing how Norse Paganism intersects with the material world, both politcally, socially and morally. Your head-on take downs of those who would pervert our faith to serve thier own outside agendas is something sorely needed, and it's a true pleasure to see it done so very well. May the gods smile on you and your continuing work.
Were all just men and women trying to live good by the Gods and Goddesses. Some do it well, others not so much. In the end i wish anyone who follows the path the best in this life and the best in their mind.
I despise racism so of course I dislike the afa but I can't get behind using modern day politics in a faith that is older than liberal politics . That doesn't mean I'm Republican again I hate politics but today's liberals would never make it the ancient world!
Well said
New guy here. Thank you for bringing this to us. I've been binging on WoO the past week. I wish I remember which one, but I recall a video where he was speaking at a school or somewhere. I'll try not to misquote. He said a black woman asked him if she could become pegan despite being African American. He says he told her something to the effect of, religion is something usually past down from our ancestors, but if she felt a calling to the gods, then who is he to say no and that she should go for it.
Perhaps Jacob is falling victim to the old "a friend to all is a friend to none." Either to make a buck or to not rock the boat.
I’m new and just learning, about Norse Paganism so finding a community I thought would be a very good idea.
I had started listening to the podcast (the wisdom of Odin), I was into the 8th podcast and each podcast something just felt weird/off like there was something more I couldn’t explain it. I also watched a few videos of his and felt the same way. Then the other day I jumped on RUclips and this video and another about him was the first few videos on my feed.
So that definitely wasn’t a coincidence. So thank y’all for sharing.
Hello there ,may i ask you ,are you still into norse religion?
@@ДжесикаИванова-б8ф yes
@@ДжесикаИванова-б8ф yes I am
How is it racist to say that heathen gods are in the DNA of certain European people? Is Yahweh the Abrahamic god not in the DNA of most semitic people? Are the Loa not in the DNA and ancestry of sub-saharan African traditions and their diaspora?
Uh yeah all of that would be not only racist but reductive mockery of the Gods.
@@OceanKeltoi how? Explain.
@@lk1590 i’ve gone into this in other videos. But essentially it limits the Gods in favor of poor politics, which is just a mockery of the Gods. This all boils down to spiritual protectionism in the form of identity politics, which is just racism.
I'm just a traveler passing through. I honestly never seriously looked into the AFA or Declaration 127. I honestly didn't even know that it existed. But I'm glad it does and I'm grateful to have found this knowledge. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this video. I am a norse pagan and live in Spain, because of the language I didn't know this until now. As a LGTB person I thank you deeply for this response and for taking the time and work for open our eyes about WoO
Hi Maria. Yo nací en Puerto Rico, mi familia es de España y Portugal. I’m looking for more information on the pagan traditions of Iberia. Do you have any books or channels you could recommend?
Vikings never accepted lgtbq
@@Cretan_Wolf Reread history, little folkist 😁
@@Geralt_harvey3784 I'm a bit late in on this, but could you explain more and what sources may be out there? Genuine question.
Bomb video, this is how you deal with enlightened centrists.
Sorry, I'm new here. I'm not familiar with the term enlightened centrist.
@@DomAnthony89 The type who says that both sides are as good/bad as one another and refuses to take a side because they are too "enlightened" for such conflicts, even when it's between actual racists and people fighting against actual racists.
@@Svartalf42 ahh. Ok. Thank you for the clarification.
Let's be honest there's no such thing as a centrist, they're just fascists who don't know they're fascists yet
Well put; more light put on the bundle of red flags out there.
Great video! Thank you so much for all of your work.
I love you man I have never heard anyone speak out like this
I’ve only just started my journey and naturally found Woo.
Glad I found this video too so I can be more informed about him
Thank you for taking this on, Ocean. From the bottom of my heart, you're doing a necessary and great thing, which few would be able to undertake. Especially with such clarity, eloquence, and integrity. (Terms which Jacob Spurlock could not define nor utilize if he tried)
Yo! Whats good bud!
wow!As a Brazilian pagan I am truly happy to see that you (being one of my favorite channels on the Nordic theme) are against these racist views that, unfortunately, are so common in this kind of religion. thought
Anyway, thanks for being one of the good-heathens out there and bringing good info for us.
sorry for bad english lol
Roleplayers
If you're brazillian, you're not a pagan, its exclusive to europeans
I've been a heathen for many years and just recently had WoO pop up on my instagram. I thought why not and tried to watch his videos, but I couldn't finish one. Something about them just rubbed me wrong, it reminded me of the feeling I would get when I would go to church, one man trying so hard to come off kind and full of knowledge but with something darker within. Well, it would seem the Gods were trying to warn me, as more and more I find is disturbing to say the least. Thank you for confirming what I was feeling, as an openly queer pagan, the AFA gtfo.
I've listened to his podcast and I enjoy a lot of his videos for the information that they provide. At the same time his podcast really kind of reeked of pretentiousness especially when I heard how they just bashed Tyr followers while providing no meaningful information about Tyr himself outside of a couple of personal experiences of the guests and some very basic information.
Context - I'm very new to this faith and I'm learning everyday. Jacob's videos have helped me in regards to books I should read as well as given me some perspective on the Gods. But I definitely get the vibe that he is the type who may or may not (for lack of a better way of putting it) "Believe his own bullshit."
After seeing this video it confirmed a lot of bad vibes I was getting especially from listening to his podcast and in fact raised some serious red flags about him that I never picked up on.
I'm really glad I found this video and your channel. I'm a deconstructing Christian who's felt a pretty strong pull towards this religion multiple times. One of those times I did a rather shallow search for paganism and Wisdom of Odin was front and center. I even thought I did enough searching to confirm that he wasn't aligned with anything shady. Thankfully people such as yourself have their own channel.
I am a new member into heathenry and I’m also European and I can say that thank the gods that I found this video cause I was watching the other guy’s videos for introductions into this faith. I think the main goal of Norse paganism or Asatru is that we accept everyone that wants to be part of it . These guys should completely abandon the faith cause they’re making excuses to be racist. This is about tolerance and respect not violence and racist behavior 😢
@@cavalierxii3036 Asatru isn't only for us Europeans, sure we have history and their culture written down in history but that doesn't mean that people from other countries outside of it cannot be believers. This is not OUR GODS this is EVERYONE'S GODS at least to people that want to follow asatru. I don't understand what's so confusing about my first message, literally there's no excuse to be racist just because you're pagan or wanting to its believers to be simply "white". That just nonsense... also have boundaries in what sense? I can understand like accepting members on their level of approach of the faith, but not using it as an excuse to say "we need to save the white race or the white race etc..." Still, think whatever you want to think but justifying racism just because you are calling yourself asatru is not having boundaries in fact you're overstepping them.
You are just appropriating the norse religion to make your own.
Just think of your own gods that are inclusive, don’t appropriate other cultures to your benefit.
Have you ever thought of what you deem as racist, may have been the norm in the past?
@@Anonymous-sq6eo I think they only distinguished between slaves and free men, not by the color of their skin. What are you saying is that due to your assumptions the asatru folk can be racist cause you people think that they were a white supremacy folk. But you have no proof about it whatsoever. Also what you're saying is that we also can support slavery because they were into slave trading back at the time... Cool let's kidnap children and woman in order to sell them...
My opinion is based on respect. Religions and culture can evolve the same happened with christianism, I'm not sure if they were racist (norse people) but behaviours as slave trading and racism are no longer permitted nowadays and you cant justify to be racist just because you claim to be asatru...
We have to treat everyone equally independent of what they believe and their colour of their skin, so if we going to make this work we cannot implement racism and slave trading back because they are against basic human rights. There's no excuse in those treatments, is like saying your grandfather was racist so you're racist cause he was one... they were different times with different goals in life and their way of living were pretty much different from ours. There's no excuse towards racist behaviour. And I feel truly sorry for the asatru folk to have racist people among their lines claiming that they're only racist cause of their religion. That's bullocks
BTW you're not living in 10th century might consider that as well...that even if we were racist, slave traders and conquerors at the time that doesn't mean we're declaring war in other European countries because we want their money and riches nowadays. If you want to believe in other religions you have to believe with the rules and laws of every country also human rights in mind. You can't kill people just because they're black or white... unless you want to go to prison.
"We should accept everyone" and then right after that "these guys should completely abandon the faith." Very dogmatic and Christian like imo. Also, while anyone can choose to follow Asatru it's important to point out that it was never a global religion like Christianity or Islam. It was very focused on ancestors and tribe. From a modern pov the Norse would probably be viewed as "racist"
@@MrFredstt yeah but you should have into consideration the times that we're living in, just because they were into racism back in the early centuries doesn't mean that we have to be, that's just another excuse to cause harm and denigrate people depending on their beliefs or culture. As to abandon the faith I said it because as I mentioned before there are no excuse towards questionable behaviour, if they're going to use religion in order to do that well, they might as well consider to use something else because not everyone is like that. Besides to the ancestor argument it was like that back then, they had their faith already during a long time ago and it was passed from fathers to sons. Right now, its completely different cause what we're doing is reconstructing it from the little extracts we have from them, so we cannot expect to believe or put it in practical in the same way, because our background and laws are different apart and surely we're missing info. We're different that we were centuries ago and just saying things like just because in the 9th century they were racist and focused on ancestors we should be exactly that, when we have a way modern society and rights. I understand the historical background but being racist saying things like "they were racist at the time" "they were focused on ancestors" its just another excuse to be one. And definitely they don't need religion to be one.
This WOO guy simply doesn't want to get dragged into arguments or grief. You have no right to call him out.
He's got every right to. No frith with folkish heathens. If you don't understand that folk heathens are filled with nazi's then you really need to climb out of under that rock.
Too bad for him 🙁
Thank you for making this video. I just unsubscribed from Jacob a few minutes ago-- I'm a mixed-race (and agender) Heathen, and I'm absolutely shaken to learn that he rubs elbows with people who would see me as near nonhuman.
What type of mental illness agender is;
i hear it for the first time
Ah, people who believe that the All-Father is rather the Some-Father.
Yep sadly
@L7M What are you trying to imply? Be exact.
“They assume you align with them” yes exactly this. You’re extremely well spoken on this issue and hit all the points very well.
Started this path very recently. I knew the white supremacists existed, en masse, but I feel as though I was thrust into this reality so quickly. I started with WoO, I had no idea…
I am in my forties. I began researching paganism over 20 years ago. My advice to new practitioners is research like A LOT and keep your eyes wide open because not everything that is around on the internet is reliable. I follow the WoO channel, I found some of his videos interesting but I havent watched all of them so I was quite surprised to see your video pointing out these topics. Good to know. Racism among the norse pagan community is a serious issue that must be addressed. I enjoy your video. I will definetely subscribe to your channel
Are you confusing racism with folkism.
9:55 as a German citizen I can only say this is utter nonsense, although there are a lot of other Germans (10%-15%) who would agree with him.
That’s closer to the truth than you might think. Germans are having less babies, and most of the immigrants are Turks and Arabs, who do have big families.
Simple math, like it or not. I am not saying we should kick them out or discriminate against them, but that does not change the fact that he is more right than wrong.
@@Anonymous-sq6eo quick question: how do you define "German" - and would you say the melanin content of your skin says anything about how German you are? (edit: not trying to put words in your mouth - but at least in the context of the video it seems that German (or European for that matter) equals white.)
That aside. Germans having less babies (as in: the birthrate dropped to about 1.5) is true. most of the immigrants being Turks or Arabs is, however, wrong. Most of the immigrants are Romanians, followed by Poles, Bulgarians, Italians, Kroatians and then it's perople from Syria and Turkey. (Germans re-immigrating to Germany excluded). (quick look at the national statistics, 2019).
Now, it is a question / a point of discussion / a claim that pops up every so often and while I would intuitively agree with hamanime 'well, I have a gut feeling' isn't an argument. So allow me to think out loud for a moment as I try to find a better reply.
Only looking at the immigration (as opposed to the saldo; immigrants from an area minus emigrants to that area) (2020): of 1.6-ish million about 1.2m are from Europe (of which about 40k are from Turkey and about 20k from Russia). Now, not axactly sure who 'the Turks' are - if it's just Turkey or also other nations in that area. So I'll leave that open. As for 'the Arabs' I suppose you mean 'the Arab world' adding the immigration numbers from those 22 states we arrive at ~125k (with the most coming from Syria and Iraq) and it includes those whose nationality is unclear, unknown or who don't have one (total of ~10k). Afaik immigration is also not tied to acquiring the German nationality - the only ones not included are those who are 'waiting on their status' as what I think is now called a "regular migrant" (aka someone showing up at the immigration office with all the needed documents and is waiting to be entered in the 'residence registry' - no idea if that's how it's actually called. But you have to tell the state where your place of residence in Germany is.) - those registered as refugees / applying for the status as a refugee seem to be counted as formally their residence in Germany is whatever facility they stay at.
Granted, the German-wide average of mothers-of-not-German-nationality is ~25% (2019) but given the above numbers I would assume the majority of those 25% are from other European countries.
www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migration/_node.html
www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Bevoelkerung/Wanderungen/Publikationen/Downloads-Wanderungen/wanderungen-2010120187004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile (only German though)
@@Anakianaj Generically European, German...stop the bullshit. Europeans are being bullied with socialists opening the gates of false prosperity to wild illegals who could care less about our culture. It's only to destroy our sovereignty
@@Fatelovesirony960 look, I'm open to have a discussion. but if you make an argument, please support it with facts and evidence from credible sources. My line of thinking is that generally people tend to be biased in some way and looking at the numbers can put things into perspective. If of the over a million and a half people that immigrate to Germany (which includes those whose status is so far unclear afaik) only a faction are not from the OECD countries (as in their nationality) then there's really not much else to say about it. Except you have some information that I don't have and would be kind enough to share your sources with me?
Late to the party but you really need to be front and centre I think. I've dabbled in Heathenry/Norse paganism since I was a teen and have recently started deep-diving into it more devotedly, and it's painful as hell thinking you've found something refreshing and 'clean' only to see it dance around the ugly aspects of this religion with no clear position one way or the other. So I thank you for being firm and straightforward, because it's what a lot of new Heathens really do need to see. 100% subscribed to you my man, keep up the good work. Skal.
Being new to norse paganism and queer in every possible way, I find this video very important and informative. WoO has been pushed into my feeds by the algorithm and I was not prepared to understand what can possibly be so wrong in some niches of the faith. Gosh. Thank you for pointing this out.
Well damn.. He was one of the first heathens I found on YT... Guess I'll be putting some distance from him now