Wolf the Red made a followup to this video with a lot more information, turns out things are far worse than I knew when making this video. You can see his video here: ruclips.net/video/aTRTZ0zfWz4/видео.html
If you think the Ancient Norse Vikings, would tolerate Transsexuals, or even Homosexuals in their ranks, you are an idiot. These people worshipped STRENGTH, the rainbow crowd would be banished from their villages, racism is normal for Non Christians, ethnocentrism is in all peoples, it not right, but it is what it is.
@@audhumbla6927 Except you would. Paganism and Heathenry are religious in nature and not racial. We may think of it as uncommon but we don't see Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, ect. turning away people that aren't ethnically representative of the faiths region of origin, and the same stands for Paganism and Heathenism. The AFA is at it's core a white supremacist hate group and should be recognized as such.
@@T0B3Announc3d Ur wrong. all paganism is local and specific to its people. If a native american would say that only his people can practice his belief, you wouldnt say shit, so stop having diffrent standards for whites, thats racism. Paganism is ancestral.
As someone who's recently come into exploring this path, I found him first. I appreciate you bringing this forward. With my mixed family, I am mad for not realizing this sooner.
Means something to me on my journey. Then I edited to add one missing letter and lost it. And thus is how it works in what we call life. The quest for the unobtainable...perfection...typically leads to going from being as close as one can get w/o being to rolling one's ass into another zip code.
The thing that really bugs me about the Asatru Folk Society (aside from the obvious stuff) is their implied anti-adoption stance. Of all people, I feel the Norsemen should understand that family is more than blood.
Bruh literal Norse/Germanic clans were all almost exclusively blood relatives/direct family what're you talking about? I mean unless you wanna' count slaves as adoption lmao.
I strongly agree, as and Icelander I was raised in a society that was (and still sometimes is) very conservative when it came to the tradition and values of our ancestors and one of the most cherished and sacred values is: Family is sacred. No matter if some one was related in blood or not, if you loved them like family, treated them like family and viewed them as family. Then they are family, and if someone dishonored or wronged one member of the family, it was viewed as a dishonor and wrong doing on all of them. Why do you think the sagas have so many blood feuds going on.
the pagan community should be a safe place for all people no matter your sexual orientation, gender, race, culture, or nationality. we can and all should be able to be who we are.
I am a Black American veteran in his 50's that has always since I was a child viewed the All-Father as the face of God. I am the 5th generation of a family of Soldiers that has served in all our wars since the civil war. After watching your video's and hearing the wisdom of your thoughts I have decided to subscribe to your channel.
I've never considered myself to be a FAN of WoO, but I subscribed to his channel and watched most of his videos. The bigger his community grows, the more it gives off the feeling of turning more and more into a cult. I wasn't able to put my finger on it, but watching his content gave me very mixed feelings. After watching this video, I will unsubscribe WoO immediately and will share this message. This is so so so important! Thank you for putting this together!!
Totally agree.... only watched a couple of his videos... and just couldn't put my finger on what bothered me... but needless to say...don't watch his videos anymore... 🤷♀️
He’s giving me the vibe of someone who’s never belonged and probably was bullied and now overdoes it and gets high on power, I can’t take him seriously or respect him. Meanwhile ocean comes off as an amazing and respectable man just through his intellect and wisdom, he doesn’t have to be flashy or anything.
@@Cathy1864 Yeah gonna have to disagree with you there he had 2 females getting married at one of his gatherings .. but this video just seem to attack his choices of freedom like the Covid crap .. if your worried about Covid stay home .. Sorry but seems here Ocean is just punching down and twisting his words.. could Jacob have worded it better sure but .. Gender identity isn't fluid your one or the other that's biology ..
So, new pagan here. Only reason I know of WoO is because the YT algorithm put him front and center in my feed. I personally found him a little too, woo woo for lack of a better term. Some information seemed ok but I kept searching being new to paganism and also being someone that likes to read and absorb information. As I've learned more I think WoO is just doing this for cash. Which by itself, ok whatever, but coupled with the AFA stuff and the seemingly predatory behavior of new pagans who are vulnerable as new pagans and will latch onto whatever "nice" face gets presented in front of them. And I think thats what this dude is doing, presenting a nice face and exploiting the vulnerable to get money while hiding his toxic behavior. Edit: I want to say thank you Ocean for being a reliable source of information. I like the historical approach of what I have seen so far. I feel I have some differing political views but nothing that couldn't be talked over and I get the feeling you'd be down for that if we were in a situation we were talking one on one about it. Regardless, I appreciate your work. What I have seen so far.
Thanks ocean ,someone needed to tell him his views are not our views, and he really wasn't needed in the internet anyway he had nothing too teach ,no wisdom of Odin to pass on
I always felt like he was a bit show off like and i wasn't sure what i thought abt him but after this video I've made up my mind I'm glad i found ocean first
He literally has no connection to the afa, also im guessing you havent listened to his podcast he uses alot of the donations and puts it forward to buying land for a hall.
@@crushinnihilism “you’re a pagan role playing as a Viking” simply means someone who is a pagan, which can refer to a broad spectrum of different faiths, is cosplaying as a Viking, which for the Norse, was a job. So essentially you’re saying “you’re a non Christian cosplaying as a Viking, just be atheist like a rational person.” Which I assume isn’t the message you were trying to send. Im a former atheist who converted to Norse paganism. I know the general atheist view of reality(obviously there’s some differences between people since atheism is not a monolith). I know that trying to convince you of the validity of my faith is a pointless endeavor, so I will not try. Instead, I’ll say this: this comment is no different from an evangelical Christian telling us to believe what they believe. Is that the energy you want to bring to a mature discussion?
saying you don't openly support someone kind of means you openly support them though ... like, it implies you covertly support them, but obviously you just told everyone.
I recently converted to from atheism to Norse Paganism, and I’ve found myself on WoO’s channel a lot because I am still a beginner when it comes to the actual practices of the faith. Thank you for preemptively stopping me from going down the wrong path
@@Dice_roller So to be a good person you have to be a Progressive and agree with every single tenet of that faith? Lol it's absolutely hilarious that you far leftists claim to be "pagan", actual pagans from the past would eat you for breakfast. Figuratively speaking of course, I'm not saying they were cannibals, I just mean they would not recognize you as kin. They would be disgusted by many of your beliefs and practices, and you would be disgusted by nearly all of theirs.
You did not convert to Norse Paganism. You already follow a religion. If I insulted Odin, you wouldn't care at all. But if I said something about race and IQ, you would be horrified and attack me as though I just blasphemed your god. That's because you are already a zealous acolyte in the Cult of Woke.
I just came across this video and have been watching your channel to get a better understanding of norse heathenry (my boyfriend is a heathen and is actually on your discord server). I greatly appreciate this video as one of the things that made me, as a Jewish person, incredibly nervous when my SO started exploring heathenry was the ties it has had to the alt right. He actually told me about this video and I've come to see so many heathens speaking out about the AFA and it's put me so much at ease. I also just want to be as supportive as I can.
This seriously makes me angry. I'm a naturalist atheist. But that's just me. I was SO close to being a full blown anti-theist. I wanted to say "all religion is bad. Nothing good comes from it!" But then I found you. Aliaki. Wolf the red. Calon. And it softened me. It helped me. And I love watching ya'lls content. I love learning about what you believe. You've thought through it, you've discussed it, and discovered something. I know we'll differ on just what you discovered but you have it! And it occasionally makes me pause and think "you know, there might be something to this whole god(s) thing after all." But folkists, and WoO and the AFA come in and try really hard to destroy that. They make it SO easy for an angry atheist to point to them and say "see? Paganism isn't any better than Christianity or Islam! Paganism still makes people stupid sheep that want to kill in the name of their religion too!!" These people and their actions are not only dangerous to social progress. Not only create fertile ground for potential violence. Not only dangerous to frith and pagan unity. It is also dangerous to the growth of paganism itself. For both outreach so paganism as a whole will be considered and respected, but also bringing new pagans into a safe and accepting religion where they feel comfortable and free to be who they are with the blessing of their gods. I am certain that if I found a folkist or WoO instead of you, I'd be an angry anti-theist today. And that's not OK. I don't know how much I can do or how much it matters, but you have my support in getting rid of these people. No frith with folkists.
@Trinity M you must be new. The "violent sheep" comment in reference to the Abrahamic religions is a common argument used by anti-theists to try to discredit religion. It is common, and thus well known, especially in the atheists spheres. (A place Ocean frequents.) I do not agree with that take as I am not an anti-theist. And obviously, I didn't exactly go into the nuance of the argument because frankly, it didn't matter. The point wasn't that the argument was valid its that anti-theists will use folkism to try to strengthen the argument. If you want to talk legitimacy of religion, we can do that. If you want to talk about harm that religion does, or harm that people do in the name of religion, we can talk about that too. But that's not the conversation being had. The conversation being had is simply that folkism gives anti-theists more ammunition to be dicks to religious people and I don't like that. So folkism needs to not. Hence no frith with folkists.
No matter where you go and no matter what group you associate with at some point you are going to run into bad people because there are good and bad in all groups. That is something you should probably keep in mind. The best thing you can do is find a group of people you can stand and hang out with them. You don't all have to think and believe the exact same things. I don't trust groupthink and hive minds myself, but as long as there is respect and open, honest communication that is the important thing.
This honestly breaks my heart. I thought I finally found a group like his community to worship and practice with and I guess I didn't. Being in his discord and all that I still felt like I didn't fit in and some of the things being said gave a cult like feel to it. The group gatherings, the membership, a fundraiser for a hall, and so much more. Don't get me wrong I would love to attend those but it felt like a mini hierarchy was forming and it felt weird to me. It felt like I was back in the Mormon church, paying to worship and exist with my heathen family. Thank you for this and I'm kicking myself for not seeing this video sooner
@@patrickbertlein4626im always suspicious when someone says hierarchy isn't the problem lolol you're gonna need to clarify what you mean because all hierarchies have the potential of tyranny built into the framework
@@eminentbishop1325 hierarchies are a natural part of any social structure, even if implicit. Yes, it has potential for tyranny, but it also brings order to chaos. Nothing is absolutely good or bad. There is a right dose for everything, and hierarchies are no different. A healthy hierarchy benefits everyone, while an unhealthy one turns into tyranny indeed
@@victor_bueno_br hierarchies are not natural. Its a conceptualization of reality, not reality itself. What people define as hierarchies is just a means to organize information into a definitional framework, which in itself it can limited i.e. you defining it as a natural process when hierarchy isnt something that exist in the natural world. Its not as if animals purposely organize themselves into these systems. The systems are just tools we use to simplify complex sets of data and the hard truth is that the spectrum of truth is far wider than it can intuitively seem
@@victor_bueno_br but i should say i dont necessarily disagree. Social systems seem to organize along those lines. How natural that is or a representation of a good for society i think is that gray area of discussion
As a lifelong atheist who has recently been teetering on the edge of finding some form of faith stumbling across your videos while searching for intersectional pagans, I really can’t thank you more for making your stances on racism, nationalism, homophobia, and responsibility to your community so clearly and firmly stated. So, seriously, thank you so very much. I’m glad I came across your channel.
ou do know that Vikings didn't accept LGBT+ People, It was considered an insult, If you google the word "Eigir" you'll learn how Vikings nor Oden would accept a trans or LGBT person into asgard, You were given your gender by the gods when you were born and it should stay that way, stop trying to be special. It doenst matter what these people think, History is History and you would've been killed for you actions back in the day. You're young and ignorant, you'll grow out of it, but dont expect Allfather to turn his eye towards you until you accept who you are, which is the gender you were born with. It pisses me off that people like you "Look into Paganism" You're the ones making our religon look like a joke to the outside world and you are the reason we'll never be taken serious, If you're a man Thor will beat his hammer until you find yourself back to your masculinity and if you're a woman, may Freja guide you back to your Nurturing and Loving Feminine side. End of Discussion. Sincerely Whilliam Nilsson
and that’s what turns people away from faith, as I have, even as a straight cis male. If that is how the gods really are, they deserve nothing more than sneering contempt, and you deserve even less than that. This is how the gods really die, they simply outlive their usefulness. After all, _we_ created _them,_ not the other way around, and we just as easily snuff them out. Götterdämmerung, literally.
OK could someone answer this question for me! I live with a Christian and a Jewish roommate I've had many conversations about religion and recently we've had quite a few conversations about the AFA due to them being in the news more. My Jewish roommate lived in Israel for many years and she had an interesting perspective on the AFA saying that you can't truly follow "Asatru" unless you are of northern European decent.. she pointed out that many Jewish people look down or don't really consider you a true member of the Jewish tribe if you convert because membership in the tribe is solely based of your decent. She also brought up how Hasidic Jews generally don't allow marriage outside of the tribe. She also said that she believes she has a deeper connection with her god because she can trace her family back to the 12 original tribes. So my question is this..why is it acceptable for other religions or cultures to allow or not allow conversion based on ethnicity or decent but when it comes to a Northern European religion it is considered deplorable. If you are Jewish or Muslim you can usually trace your heritage back to the 12 tribes or Muhammad (ie the Saudi royalty) however many northern Europeans are also able to trace their family back to the royal family's of northern Europe (ie the Danish and Swedish royalty trace their liniage back to King Gorm the Old who claimed decent from the Volsung tribe which in turn we are told by the Saga of the Volsungs was decended from Odin.) So again where do we draw the line with what is OK and what is not acceptable?
You should have heard the non sense the Southern Baptist Church taught back in the 1980's regarding the 12 tribes, the lost tribes, and how the children of Noah populated the world. Such as the Danes are the descended of the tribe of Dan. Young Earth creationist fluff.
Your Jewish friend doesn’t really represent the Jewish ideology, it sounds like Zionist rhetoric to me, especially likely if she was raised in the Israeli school system where they teach the racist genetic narrative, I should know I spent time there growing up. The Ashkenazim (Slavic Jews) have used that narrative against the Mizrahim (Arab Jews) to claim ethnic superiority and establish segregated schools and neighborhoods. But there’s a reason why there’s these different “Jewish ethnic groups”, because they’re so heavily mixed with other non Semites, like Russian (Slavic) Jews, Amazigh (indigenous North African) Jews, Kurdish (Indo-Iranic) Jews, etc. these people are not even related to each other anymore. Only your mother has to be Jewish for you to be recognized, and it’s mostly the orthodox that still practice that, converts are more accepted now. The Jewish law isn’t about genetics being passed down, Judaism allows for lots mixing, it’s about upholding the cultural and religious traditions, which is a duty allocated to the mother. Many people in Europe have female Jewish ancestors, I’m German and I have them way back in my matrilineal ancestry, so by the law I could be recognized as Jewish if I wanted to, even though no one has been Jewish in my family for over 200 years. And even my best friend is half Polish (Jewish mother) and Irish, her synagogue recognizes her. And her husband is a heavily mixed Peruvian, so by Jewish law their children will be recognized as Polish-Irish-Spanish-Scottish-Quechua-Italian Jews, and will most likely be offered a “birthright” trip to Jerusalem even though they don’t have any ethnic Semitic ancestry or if they do it’s about 1% now. They would hold more genetic claim to Machu Picchu and Brú na Bóinne than to Jerusalem. That whole genetic thing is a more recent racist “one drop rule” narrative adopted by zionists to validate the colonization of the Fertile Crescent and to treat native Semitic Jews (such as Syrian Jews) like second class citizens and appropriate their specific cultures as their own. It’s equivalent to Euro-Americans being like “I’m 1/36th Cherokee so therefore I get to wear a Navajo ritual headdress”. Thank you for coming to my tedtalk
Because the white race is weak and being abused because of their weakness and naivety. Im Ulster Scottish and grew up in LA. There wasn't a day that went by where I wasn't reminded of my race. The most fervent antiracist "conservative" republicans who refuse to see race and to stick up for their own people seem to very densely populate the midwest and rural 99% white communities here in America. It is almost as it they have had it easy and havent had neighbors r*ped and killed. Be it Odin or Christ. Both better send me to hell for not fighting for my people.
I have been apart of the Heathen community for a year now and for the last two months I was a Patreon member of Wisdom of Odin. I was blinded by the need for a community and did not pick up on the way Jacob talked and how he discussed certain topics until I was shown Aliakai's video about 3 days ago. I then began looking at your videos along with Red the Wolf. I thank you for this information because I was introduced to Heathenry when I worked in corrections and saw it used as a white supremacists movement. I have worked very hard this last year when I told people I was Heathen to make sure they understood that I support all sexual orientations and races because I would be asked about that alot when people found out about my path in the old ways. So again thank you for the information and I look forward to obtaining more knowledge from open minded Heathens.
I have to congratulate you on being able to acknowledge where you made mistakes or didn't spot red flags. That can be really difficult. Ocean's discord (Ocean's Hold) is an excellent place to start with a solid community.
@@kassietheobald9165 If you look in the description of any of the omnipotent beard podcast episodes, there's a link labelled discord. That link should let you join. There's a pretty active entry point to chat in which is a few channels while the mods get a feel for you (protects us against bigots) and once you get past that point the server is a whole lot bigger.
This is a great video especially since YT pushes his videos on Norse paganism. I recently started looking into Norse paganism and watching some WoO videos did nothing sit right with me. Coincidentally afterwards I came across Aliakai and her video which confirmed my suspicions.
Yeah his vids seemed kinda cool at first but the more I watched the more something has started to feel a little off. At first I thought he was just a bit of a show-boating type, and he seemed maybe a bit arrogant. I had not gotten to any of his videos where he said any of the stuff sited in this video though, and just..... wow. I'm not familiar with Aliakai, I'll have to take a look at her vids.
I watched one full episode and a couple segments of his channel and had too much cringy creepy crawlies to go any further, not to mention he just sounds like a dick.
I used to follow Jacob when he first started the channel. He gave a warm welcome to the new people coming into heathenry while also putting a smile on my face. It hurts to have to turn my back on the dude but well, Cult leader vibes. All though I do hope he manages to see past his blindness as well as the toxic people around him.
You can call them toxic but atleast they stay in their lane . I find woke people patrolling and complaining about everybody else's opinions toxic. Waste of time.
@@OriginalFallofMind Woke people don't "patrol", they call out the hate where they see it on their path. Being woke simply means to be aware of social issues, so proudly, that is what I am. If your opinions are called out as toxic, you are probably hurting someone.
My first introduction to Heathenry was WoO(Yes, I know he and his lot are Asatru) then I got a good feel for his community and dipped. I found your videos shortly after and they are quite helpful.
This is the first time I've heard of any of these people or the AFA. Then again I'm British and my focus has been on reading the eddas and learning about the Gods
Same bro because when things become huge and organized things branch out and big problems occur just keeping doing what your doing be yourself by yourself is the best way.
This is the first instance of the AFA being brought to my attention as well and I am deeply disturbed that they have such an appaling view of this kind. Honestly I was unaware that issues of this kind existed in heathen society.
@@sabeydanielgmailcom I'm kinda the same. I was aware that the NatSocs and WS had seized some symbols and used the Gods in "heretical ways" but I wasn't aware of a formal organisation doing it until I watched this
Well damn. Ocean's got an intimidating streak to him. He's usually so calming that I didn't see that coming. It was a necessary point though. While unity is a largely good thing, there are some people you just can't afford to unify with as is. Besides, bigotry is inherently exclusionary. Unifying with them in excluding everyone they are bigoted against. Thank you Ocean. As a minority myself, it means lot to see you take a stand for us. ❤
Even with his mistake and poor practices, I do have to thank him for helping me in my early days of the faith, which did in turn lead me to you. It is sad to see someone go down a path of poor decisions. But I am glad to be informed of his mistakes before I got lost in them myself. Thank you.
I'm still a bit of a Heathen hatchling right now, and I started my research and experience in the community through woo and I became a patron and signed up for the yule gathering but as of recent I've been discovering videos left and right exposing woo and his community, thank you for opening my eyes to the truth about woo and leading me to canceling my patron subscription and leaving his discord server
This was like watching my favorite history teacher tear apart the class clown for not paying attention. It was fun to see your angry side for once and I have to say, I've never seen a man be so angry yet so calm at the same time.
I’m not Heathen but I’m fascinated by the religion and love learning more. What you said about WoO was facts man, we need more good people like you in the world, period.
I was apart of WoO patreon and discord for a few months before one day I cancelled everything and left without a word. I have never personally spoken to Jacob but there is a vibe in his groups and with his content that is very specific. I felt like I had to follow Jacob's path of paganism to fit in. If you aren't in the clique then what you have to say is overlooked and I was left feeling degraded and confused. Luckily I've been sucked into spiritual blackholes before and pulled myself out pretty easy but I can imagine that new pagans and lonely practitioners really let this type of thing flood their mind. It's a sticky situation that's for sure
Thank you for this eye opening WoO was the first hethan content channel I came across well I was referred to them by a friend. Anyway I'm glad to be here to experiance your content. I find the structer of your videos and the way you speak to be quite captivating and well thought out and organized. Thank you for the information ocean.
My only question, is why is it a bad thing that some people still want white people? Why do we have to conform to the new “social norm” and have multiracial families? There’s nothing wrong with it at all, someone’s race shouldnt dictate who loves them but if he is right, that white people are starting to dwindle and aren’t keeping our population numbers the same then are we not going to put ourselves at risk of persecution? Look at the United States right now, the socioeconomic support for white people is far less than that of any other race. I’ve been denied from colleges before just because I didn’t meet the criteria for my race. Even in the military all it takes is one person to claim you made a racist statement and you can lose your career and possibly even face jail time even if you never made such a statement
Man keep up the great work. WoO pushes innacurate information which took me months to find out by myself. I applaud you and Aliakai for being courageous for speaking the truth. Wassail!
@@alfredharrison597 pretty much everything. All the information he quotes from either come from outdated books with outdated innacurate information or is his personal take on aspects of the faith that don't match to what the history and texts state. And worse he is racist.
@@luchadorelmachomalo Oh no not the 'R' word. Pretty much everything in heathenry and paganism is peoples interpretations and opinions on text that even the oldest, were second and third hand accounts of stories
How is it racist to say that heathen gods are in the DNA of certain European people? Is Yahweh the Abrahamic god not in the DNA of most semitic people? Are the Loa not in the DNA and ancestry of sub-saharan African traditions and their diaspora?
@@lk1590 i’ve gone into this in other videos. But essentially it limits the Gods in favor of poor politics, which is just a mockery of the Gods. This all boils down to spiritual protectionism in the form of identity politics, which is just racism.
Hey all, what are some non-problematic Heathen RUclipsrs y’all would recommend? There’s Ocean and Wolf, obviously, but for people new to Heathenry (Hi everyone), it can be kind of difficult to sort out the bad apples...
As mentioned by others Arith Harger has great factual historical info, and he has openly addressed many of the issues talked about here regarding ancient Norse attitudes on homosexuality and gender as being nothing like AFA. If you want in depth information from a truly intelligent and kind person you’ll like him.
as a dane, i find this butchering of my and my ancestors belifs wildly offensive to me. (dane, from denmark, in scandinavia) if any was wondering. good vid my dude
As a fellow Dane, I wholeheartedly agree. Nothing in the sagas or Eddas mention Volkish rhetoric. There are many archeological finds of Viking Corpses of other ethnicities, meaning being a Viking was more so cultural than ethnic.
As an American who just started practicing.. my sincerest apologies for my shithead country. I wanted to connect with my ancestors and find some sense of identity outside of my Christian upbringing and I’ve been utterly distrusted learning how it’s practiced here in the states. I live in the northwest, in one of the most progressive and accepting cities in the country, and everyday I see ravens. I do not think this is a coincidence. I believe the Aesir are with those who worship regardless of anything else.
@@neurohackstv5723 not to mention that there have been graves found with people who were at very least gender nonconforming if not somewhere on the transgender/non-binary spectrum.
@The Bearded Dragon gender nonconforming just refers to people who do not conform to cultural gender norms, so like a woman doing an assumed male task like joining a raiding force, they are still women. We call them tomboys nowadays. No need to be offended, it's not a new idea. Here I was quoting the interpretations of grave goods by professional archaeologists in reference to female warriors being explicitly buried with grave goods associated with male warriors and not shield maidens and regular female warriors. There have also been viking graves of non-combatant males buried in female clothing and with female-associated goods. These people may have just been defying gender roles or they may have been what we call transgender now. There have also been rare graves associated with individuals with a mix of gendered grave goods. We also know from text that Loki's gender descriptors and pronouns change when in a female form, indicating explicite gender fluidity, compared to when Thor disguised as a woman, but still referred to explicitly as male. It is hard to say much on people being explicitly transgender, nonbinary, or gender fluid, especially as these explicit descriptors are recent. There is an enormous body of evidence of what we call transgender and nonbinary people existing throughout human history in non-viking cultures. Gender variance was generally better tolerated in pre-Judeo-Christian cultures. Because of this, gender variance and gender role defiance was demonized in Judeo-Christian holy texts. Generally, if a group is not othered or demonized, humans don't come up with special words for them, since they're seen as unusual parts of the norm. (Also, the exisrence of transgender people is not a load of bull. It is well documented that there are metabolic and physical brain morphology differences between pretreatment transgender and cisgender people, biology says non-cisgender people are real). I know that the existence of transgender people is the hot new culture war, but that doesn't mean that we might possibly have existed among the viking population.
@The Bearded Dragon oh, yes, women serving in the Marines would be considered gender-nonconforming as it's not commonly expected for a woman to enter military service, and usually actively discouraged. This has nothing to do with her brain's gender or her instinctual sexual preferences.
Thank you for this, i am very new to norse paganism but i come from punk rock and this is a very similiar fight the struggles of true skinheads. Thank you for this information, I feel much more confident and welcomed as a queer person. This honestly means a lot. ❤
Thank the Gods for this video and all the resources listed. Sometimes this ocean of information is difficult to navigate, especially when you’re new. Thanks so much.
OK, I've got an honest hard question... I've never been to a group blot, but I've been a practicing pagan for about 2yrs now. Why can't all of us just be fine with our ancestors? Why do my "white" germanic ancestors matter, to anyone else but me? If your "black", are your ancestors not just as important to you? Whatever you are, wherever your from, is important, because it's what you come from. Can we not all respect that and praise that idea. And give reverence to all ancestors? Why does one have to be more "true" than the other to some people?? Why the comparison? You do you and I do me, and we respect each other when we meet for dinner or blót, what's so hard about that?
BTW, I think mostly ancestors matter most when you know/remember them specifically. I do not know King Harold, other than stories, so... what would this matter if I was relation without knowledge of that ancestor specifically?
I think the problem here is even AFA say you do you and i do me, they do not seek to impose their worldview on anyone but themselves, they just want to remain separate and isolated like many faiths, especially Native American ones which were a big influence on McNallen. This video condemning them however is trying to force other people to conform with their beliefs and worldview
@@fritjofvalerijs800 I agree. If a bunch of people want to form a spiritual or religious group that excludes certain people, ok; let them. As long as they're not forcing people to join them and don't abuse or attack others, I see no problem. I feel that attacking these sort of groups only validates, in their eyes, any concerns or fears they may have. If they want to separate themselves from others, peacefully, let them. In a way, making videos condemning a group I probably would not have found out about otherwise is just free advertising for them.
@@kalinora3901 Interesting view which should be discussed at a table, because I do see your point as well as I can understand ppl feeling threatened by this group. I'm with you though that I wouldn't have heard about the AFA most likely without some of Ocean's videos and me personally, I couldn't care less about them.
The issue with this is when honoring your ancestors turns into thinking that your skin color makes you superior to every different skin color out there. Groups like the AFA with racially exclusionist philosophies rarely stop at 'merely' being exclusionist, and often act as a foundation to more extremist views and possible activities; it's not a coincidence that many members of the AFA have also been found to be members of more radical Volkish and supremacist organizations (and are a big reason for the rise of heathen symbols among neo-Nazi and fascist groups).
It's really nice to find a creator who has addressed this so directly. I don't mean Wisdom of Odin, I mean the whole concept of race and acceptance in the community. Involving myself in this community I was given a word of warning to stay on high alert for the predatory and problematic sides of the religion, and thus far you're the only person who has taken the (correct) stance of acceptance within the community. Thanks.
Were all just men and women trying to live good by the Gods and Goddesses. Some do it well, others not so much. In the end i wish anyone who follows the path the best in this life and the best in their mind.
Didn't really have much of an opinion of the guy (only seen maybe 5 of his videos) but I'm glad this is being brought up. At least the RUclips algorithm is finally recommended channels from more communities of Heathens. Prior to this I had no idea your channel existed. I look forward to seeing more from your channel.
I went into this video as WoO fan, but after this, I sadly can't watch and support Jacob any more. I will say, He has some good videos, But he has some shitty associations that I simply can't stand by or even try to justify. This is very disheartening information to hear.
Same. I've been on this path for 11 years and stumbled across Jacob's work a few months ago. I've watched the majority of his videos but had not listened to the podcasts, and I am not active on twitter, so I missed this troubling information. I'm sure Ocean ended up in my recommends because of WoO, and I'm wary of new sources but his "Viking puppers" video won me over :D Yes, Fenrir is a good doggo. I've since subscribed here and been exploring the channel - and honestly I've actively avoided this video while I determined whether I felt I could trust Ocean's content. Here I am, and I am shocked and dismayed. I have enjoyed Jacob's conversational style and the relative safety and casual nature of his video topics (something I can watch without feeling the overwhelming urge to take notes). Not sure I'll stay there much longer, at minimum I won't be recommending his work to anyone until he speaks out on this topic
I hope the Algorithm really picks this up, its important. This is the nail in the coffin really. He has no excuse and he cannot meet the bare minimum. He should know better and he wants to pretend he does, which he clearly doesn't. Thanks Ocean.
I'm just a traveler passing through. I honestly never seriously looked into the AFA or Declaration 127. I honestly didn't even know that it existed. But I'm glad it does and I'm grateful to have found this knowledge. Thank you.
Someone doesn't know their own mythology then. For example when Loki turned himself into a female horse and gave birth to Sleipner, Odin's eight-legged horse. It doesn't seem very LGBT-unfriendly.
@@georgegrimnirsson2017 well, it's a social group and have a structure so... what's the problem? Of course it's different from having a real life group but it's still a way of studying and socialize.
I’m new and just learning, about Norse Paganism so finding a community I thought would be a very good idea. I had started listening to the podcast (the wisdom of Odin), I was into the 8th podcast and each podcast something just felt weird/off like there was something more I couldn’t explain it. I also watched a few videos of his and felt the same way. Then the other day I jumped on RUclips and this video and another about him was the first few videos on my feed. So that definitely wasn’t a coincidence. So thank y’all for sharing.
thank you for speaking out on this, Ocean. eloquently put together. I've been so hesitant in my call to the Norse deities at times because I'm gay and honestly -- so many parts of the community scare me. But your videos are gems and give me hope and comfort I can find my own space. Thanks, man.
you should not be alloued to practice Asatru as gay. It is literally contradics the core principle of traditional family within Asatru religion. It is appauling.
Not going to lie, when I first stepped into this faith, I wasn't too fond of you because I had already been a pretty strong follower of Jacob's channel, having been inclined to watch his videos as I entered Heathenry. So, seeing this video a while back was somewhat dampening on my introduction to Heathenry, but as I have grown out of that honeymoon phase of things, my perspectives have changed and I find myself more like-minded to you than a lot of others I see and I have come to see Jacob or The Wisdom of Odin as what they really are. So, thank you.
Has a new Pagan and someone who has struggled with Christianity and also as someone who really is not white at all, I know I have mostly Hispanic heritage but I have never taken to it and I have honestly always loved the Pagan Outlook compared to Christianity. Have always been terrified of Gatekeepers so it's nice to see people open about sharing their own Heritage and beliefs
The very literature as recorded, or even quoted from the Christian clerics, is explicitly racist. If you didn't play Skyrim you would be advocating the burning of the Sagas.
@@fritjofvalerijs800 So being open to all peoples without hate or prejudice is only left wing? Are you saying that all the people on the right are bigots?
@@satyrsak no Fritjof Valērijs is saying that the video contains a left wing stance in the sense that the left wing often also uses the idea that not speaking about something is the same as embracing it and the video contains stances on LGBTQ+ community that are leftwing. At least thats the left wing stances i could could gather from the video.
This is a pretty unsophisticated criticism, consisting mostly of canned Woke clichés and "None of my friends likes you"-style groupthink. A small example, but claiming "We believe gender is not a social construct" is _transphobic_ is highly intellectually disingenuous, but sadly typical social media fodder. That perspective is simply the other side of the opinion scale on a controversial socio-biological claim. Are you thus claiming that only one opinion (conveniently, your own) is acceptable on this matter? Indeed the whole (fill-in-the-blank)phobic construction has been widely debunked as a low-brow shame tactic, which functions essentially to bully a point through by claiming any who believe contrary are irrationally fearful (the literal definition of phobic). As in, "I think maintaining a healthy body weight is a good life decision." "Oh, so you're fat-phobic." "Oh okay, you're right, I don't believe that anymore, thanks." Also, weird take calling the AFA _misogynistic_ (yet another typical sound-byte) when the post you are referencing on-screen literally says "We celebrate our feminine ladies." Doesn't sound much like hatred or prejudice toward women to me... I could go on, but...well one more: have you not noticed how people like yourself seem so bothered that an organization celebrates white lives and indigenous white culture, yet oddly never seem to mind literal advertising campaigns, Netflix channels, Google themes etc. that proudly proclaim the "Beauty and power of black voices", raising up "Black perspectives, black lives, black stories" etc? Don't reflexively dismiss that double-standard. Why is one more acceptable to you than the other? Especially when these groups like the AFA are advancing an indigenous religion that was virtually wiped out by the Christian church. Heathenism _is_ a marginalized indigenous religion. Lumping them in with mean ol' slave-owning Whitey on the basis of skin color alone, I imagine is the reason. Yet it wasn't Pagan Icelanders owning slaves; indeed, they were more-often captives and slaves themselves thanks to the Barbary Pirates and the Ottoman slavers.
@@BlackDoomsOpinion its because they are all counter-wank redditors who aren't actually interested in debunking folkish germanic polytheism without incurring the word "racism."
@@BlackDoomsOpinion Sensational correctionism would probably better fit the "beliefs" that these supposed polytheists assume. It is a derivation of moral correction espoused by Christian theology, and is, in my opinion, utterly alien to germanic thought.
Makes sense now why he won't fully harshly condemn the AFA. What a bad look. WoO should NOT be posturing as a leader within the movement with his shitty behavior, let alone his lack of knowledge on the topics he tries to present. As said at the end in regards to the AFA, WoO is also free to stand alone.
6:30 "...you can either placate them, or fight them. And as we've seen, there isn't another option"- Well, there _is_ another option, actually. You can ignore them. And make them irrelevant.
The sheer irony of saying people are "trying to divide our community" by denouncing an organization clearly set on ousting people from the community based on race, sexuality, and gender identity. WoO has made his side of the divide fairly clear.
The whole point of paganism is that it's exclusive. There is nothing wrong with exclusivity. Pagans are interested in reawakening the religion in their own people but they are not interested in preaching and spreading the belief system around the world to Africans, Asians and South Americans.
Thanks for this video and your channel. Queer recent ex-Christian here, and your consistency and sincerity help me hold more hope to find allies within Heathenry.
I've been a heathen for many years and just recently had WoO pop up on my instagram. I thought why not and tried to watch his videos, but I couldn't finish one. Something about them just rubbed me wrong, it reminded me of the feeling I would get when I would go to church, one man trying so hard to come off kind and full of knowledge but with something darker within. Well, it would seem the Gods were trying to warn me, as more and more I find is disturbing to say the least. Thank you for confirming what I was feeling, as an openly queer pagan, the AFA gtfo.
Not sure how I'm just now finding your channel, but your work here is probably the best thing I've yet seen on all things Heathen. As a fellow traveler on the path of Odin, I really can't express to you how happy it makes me to see our shared beliefs explained and explored in such an in depth and researched manner. I especially applaud you for your lack of bullshit in addressing how Norse Paganism intersects with the material world, both politcally, socially and morally. Your head-on take downs of those who would pervert our faith to serve thier own outside agendas is something sorely needed, and it's a true pleasure to see it done so very well. May the gods smile on you and your continuing work.
Well, glad I found this channel first. You have helped me understand more as a new Norse pagan. Im glad to know about the AFA I will be very sure to avoid them. Seems as though they try to hide their hate with our faith. Thanks for spreading knowledge not hate.
@@piglice4585 Well explain why it has to be a white only religion. No other religion in the world restricts white people from religion. I see white in most religion if not all and they dont bitch. SO YOU DO YOU NEED A RELIGION ALL FOR YOURSELF?!?! Theres already group for that called the KKK.
@@piglice4585 Hail the gods and worry about your own standing with them... No better than an extreme liberal telling people how they should and shouldn't live. Live ya own fucking life and worry about yourself. Do you even attempt to actually worship these gods or do you use the gods to spread your racist hate. Not wise fella not wise.
@@CoachJeff-i6u Be it Christ or Odin. Both know what is in my heart and I know what is right. I would be a liar and unkind to tell you I felt the white race is not something worth preserving as unique from the rest of the world. And all of our creations and traditions with us my friend. Be it Christ or Odin. Both know I would be a coward if I wasn't willing to fight for this cause that I know is just. If you believed in "living ya own fucking life" you wouldn't be religious in any way shape or form and you wouldn't be correcting my belief.
@@piglice4585 welp okay then keep on ruining it for the rest of us. I'm pretty far from woke and don't support the movements but I for sure am not about to sit here and think I'm special over skin color. I'm white as hell myself but I'm not about to tell any black person or Spanish person or Asian person or any person they can't follow the faith and call them selves Asatru. I have a hard time believing your this his holy warrior of white. IM LEANING MORE TOWARDS DELUSIONAL WHITE BOY WHO ONLY CARES ABOUT THEMSELVES. It some how hurts you if a person of color worships Odin which I'm not sure I have even met one have you. You special white people ruin it for all us other white people who actual give sacrifice, time, devotion, effort. It seems your more interested in being superior than worshipping any gods. I'm tired of everyone thinking I'm racist because I worship Odin. It's because of you idiots they even feel that way. But it's okay. I'll keep informing people you don't have to be a racist dick to worship the Asier and you sure as hell don't have to be white... Like Ocean here.
I so appreciate this video. I've been a witch for years but am recently drawn to study norse paganism, and am loving your videos. I extra appreciate that you take a strong stand against all the racist bs from these people and clearly call it out. Thank you.
Honestly, sometimes I feel like people who don’t openly condemn groups like that are worse than the groups themselves. Because they normalize that bullshit and allow it to continue.
yup. dr. king’s famous letter from birmingham jail heavily condemn the white moderate, even saying that the klan and brutal cops aren’t the “true” enemies-that the people who say that they’re “politically moderate/indifferent,” the ones who say they agree with your goal but can’t support your methods, are the enemies. silence is violence.
@@Project_Algiz Shame there doesn't seem to be a forthcoming response to this post. I'm kind of new to it all, but I'd like to know what the issue with implicit or even explicit in-group preference is. As far as I see it, from this video the AFA don't seem to advocate violence towards other people. If they do, I'd very much like to be informed.
Ugh. This is the kind of stuff that made me avoid the Norse pantheon for so long. McNallen and the AFA use Nazi imagery. The fact that wasn’t a deal breaker is disappointing and disgusting.
They DON ‘T use Nazi imagery those images many are ancient indo European images that existed centuries before the Nazis . The fact the Nazis hijacked those symbols does not make them specifically Nazi symbols get your facts right before being duped by this fraudulent bullshit.
I would think the wisdom of Odin would include the observation, "Getting your followers sick is a good way to lose followers" but I only have the wisdom of common sense :(
I came back to the Norse Paganism and when I left I don't think he had started his channel. When I came back I wanted to brush up on things better and he came up. While some of his videos were alright. Some just seemed off. I joined him on patron and that's when things really got fishy for me. He didn't have an LGBTQ board on the discord. Instead it was a private chat room started by members. He reluctantly gave in and cited something about having a bad relationship with a female to male transgender man. I don't understand what that has to do with him not having an LGBTQ board up. I've since canceled my Patreon to him and unsubcribed from his youtube channel. He just uses word salad to answer tough questions.
As mixed race person I find this all facilitating. It should be added for fairness that his Holiness the Dali Lama said Europe is for Europeans and should help others get empowered and that those people should then leave, going back to their own home countries. But then again, the Dali Lama, is about full equality and not partial equality for the world. I don’t like hearing about fire and war implying to non Europeans in Europe and I also am clearly aware of some of my people stabbing White European for dating some of my peoples Middle Eastern “women”. You can’t really have a healthy talk unless we talk about the whole picture. As a mixed race person, I’m really about fairness as I don’t fit in with any group, it’s a easy and natural stance for me as much as one thrust upon me, by nearly everyone I’ve met, and especially minorities wondering how much color I have. I would like to know, does this channel think his Holiness the Dali Lama is wrong? A spiritual leader displaced from his home country and who roughly speaking wanders the world because of it? One who’s been greatly financially supported by Whites, spiritually applauded by them too, including advocates for his Holiness and Tibetan suffrage due to CCP actions of Han racial expansionism. When I herd DL advocate for native Europeans I thought it karma for good deeds done to him, and also bravery to side step the whole 20 years of evil Nazism. But then again, 20 years doesn’t define anything about Europe, or at least it should not. And yes, I am Jewish enough to have been killed for my blood line. I am fully aware but I am also aware of Po Pot, Stalin, Mao, Imperialist Japanese superiority and other psychos/systems that get the velvet glove treatment when really they are part of a genocidal whole against humanity. I see no equal treatment or attention put on other groups. Why is that? It’s not because it’s stopped elsewhere. There are Japanese only streets in Japan, and even Thailand that Japan runs. Just as a easily searchable feeling, I mean fact, which ever word people believe is truthful. Also, I don’t see Jacob as you have implied money hungry, if anything I would say you are, because those who point the finger from my life experience in that vein often are the ones guilty of it. Either way, I think your argument is he is Pro European / White, but minus the shade that groups like Brown Power / La Raza sometimes put out from some rallies I’ve scene. I think your against Woo because he may (I’m not sure 🤔) be behaving like other groups of minorities that are pro their own minority? If so please due tell. I never reply to RUclips comments as their hard to manage but for this, I surely will as I have been a fan of Jacob for about 6 months or so and have scene nothing negative from him, but that of deep passion for his journey and the sharing of that warmly. Jacob is clearly aware I am mixed race and has been warm and inviting, hearting comments of mine and responding. You on the other hand idk if would get the same loving 🥰 treatment. Intellectuals often despise blue collar type people but you could surprise me 😉.
New guy here. Thank you for bringing this to us. I've been binging on WoO the past week. I wish I remember which one, but I recall a video where he was speaking at a school or somewhere. I'll try not to misquote. He said a black woman asked him if she could become pegan despite being African American. He says he told her something to the effect of, religion is something usually past down from our ancestors, but if she felt a calling to the gods, then who is he to say no and that she should go for it. Perhaps Jacob is falling victim to the old "a friend to all is a friend to none." Either to make a buck or to not rock the boat.
@@satyrsak It's implicitly racist when it constantly glorifies blue eyes and red or golden hair. It's explicitly racist in stories like the one in the Heimskringla where a chief is born black and treated like he's cursed. His own mother does not love him. At the conclusion of the story he is turned white and his people love him again.
Thank you for taking this on, Ocean. From the bottom of my heart, you're doing a necessary and great thing, which few would be able to undertake. Especially with such clarity, eloquence, and integrity. (Terms which Jacob Spurlock could not define nor utilize if he tried)
I am a new member into heathenry and I’m also European and I can say that thank the gods that I found this video cause I was watching the other guy’s videos for introductions into this faith. I think the main goal of Norse paganism or Asatru is that we accept everyone that wants to be part of it . These guys should completely abandon the faith cause they’re making excuses to be racist. This is about tolerance and respect not violence and racist behavior 😢
@@cavalierxii3036 Asatru isn't only for us Europeans, sure we have history and their culture written down in history but that doesn't mean that people from other countries outside of it cannot be believers. This is not OUR GODS this is EVERYONE'S GODS at least to people that want to follow asatru. I don't understand what's so confusing about my first message, literally there's no excuse to be racist just because you're pagan or wanting to its believers to be simply "white". That just nonsense... also have boundaries in what sense? I can understand like accepting members on their level of approach of the faith, but not using it as an excuse to say "we need to save the white race or the white race etc..." Still, think whatever you want to think but justifying racism just because you are calling yourself asatru is not having boundaries in fact you're overstepping them.
You are just appropriating the norse religion to make your own. Just think of your own gods that are inclusive, don’t appropriate other cultures to your benefit. Have you ever thought of what you deem as racist, may have been the norm in the past?
@@Anonymous-sq6eo I think they only distinguished between slaves and free men, not by the color of their skin. What are you saying is that due to your assumptions the asatru folk can be racist cause you people think that they were a white supremacy folk. But you have no proof about it whatsoever. Also what you're saying is that we also can support slavery because they were into slave trading back at the time... Cool let's kidnap children and woman in order to sell them... My opinion is based on respect. Religions and culture can evolve the same happened with christianism, I'm not sure if they were racist (norse people) but behaviours as slave trading and racism are no longer permitted nowadays and you cant justify to be racist just because you claim to be asatru... We have to treat everyone equally independent of what they believe and their colour of their skin, so if we going to make this work we cannot implement racism and slave trading back because they are against basic human rights. There's no excuse in those treatments, is like saying your grandfather was racist so you're racist cause he was one... they were different times with different goals in life and their way of living were pretty much different from ours. There's no excuse towards racist behaviour. And I feel truly sorry for the asatru folk to have racist people among their lines claiming that they're only racist cause of their religion. That's bullocks BTW you're not living in 10th century might consider that as well...that even if we were racist, slave traders and conquerors at the time that doesn't mean we're declaring war in other European countries because we want their money and riches nowadays. If you want to believe in other religions you have to believe with the rules and laws of every country also human rights in mind. You can't kill people just because they're black or white... unless you want to go to prison.
"We should accept everyone" and then right after that "these guys should completely abandon the faith." Very dogmatic and Christian like imo. Also, while anyone can choose to follow Asatru it's important to point out that it was never a global religion like Christianity or Islam. It was very focused on ancestors and tribe. From a modern pov the Norse would probably be viewed as "racist"
@@MrFredstt yeah but you should have into consideration the times that we're living in, just because they were into racism back in the early centuries doesn't mean that we have to be, that's just another excuse to cause harm and denigrate people depending on their beliefs or culture. As to abandon the faith I said it because as I mentioned before there are no excuse towards questionable behaviour, if they're going to use religion in order to do that well, they might as well consider to use something else because not everyone is like that. Besides to the ancestor argument it was like that back then, they had their faith already during a long time ago and it was passed from fathers to sons. Right now, its completely different cause what we're doing is reconstructing it from the little extracts we have from them, so we cannot expect to believe or put it in practical in the same way, because our background and laws are different apart and surely we're missing info. We're different that we were centuries ago and just saying things like just because in the 9th century they were racist and focused on ancestors we should be exactly that, when we have a way modern society and rights. I understand the historical background but being racist saying things like "they were racist at the time" "they were focused on ancestors" its just another excuse to be one. And definitely they don't need religion to be one.
As a new pagan: Someone speaking in such vague and ambiguous terminology as the fundamentalist group i was raised in, there are red flags. Someone speaking as a leader or authority on information or insight while looking being so new, also a huge red flag. Requiring some kind of contribution to be a part of a religious community, huge red flag. No. So much no. So many red flags. I would practice my faith by instinct before I listened to a breath from him.
I really agree with your point about requiring (monetary) contribution to be part of the community. It frankly feels like the start of a cult, and people should be very, VERY careful about that kind of thing. From an outsiders perspective, WoO is setting himself up as a figurehead
@@alfredharrison597 lmao, you could interpret what I said that way, I suppose. That just kind of shows how defensive you’re feeling though. Gate keeping philosophy or religion through financial means instantly pollutes the movement. Furthermore, he’s creating an echo chamber that selects for people who are willing to pay him money.. That’s about as bad as the televangelists who sell tap water through the TV. WoO is in a more complicated position than other personality or even philosophy based RUclips channels. Heathens have generally rejected mainstream religion & everything that goes along with it. Why is he trying to commercialize information and community, like the christians have with their faith? Until WoO proves that the money donated is going to the construction of his hall, and not his own living expenses, I’ll maintain my position.
@@TheLizander So because I throw shade BACK AT YOU im being "defensive"? How about I say all of you are attacking and being antagonistic wanting to call out this guy for not doing something you want him to do. He doesnt owe any goddamn one of you an excuse about anything, yet you all act like he does. YOU ALL are being divisive, YOU ALL are being toxic, YOU ALL are attacking this individual and yet he has not said ONE FUCKING WORD ABOUT ANY OF YOU. Before you throw shade on someone for not living up to you expectations, LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR FOR ONCE.
I found WoO during the beginning of the covid lockdown. I watch quite a bit of his videos and followed him on IG. My lockdown only lasted a short time and watching RUclips fell off the importance list. I recently started back up and WOW!!! I clearly missed a lot!! I had no idea! But like another commentator said, the larger his community has grown, the creepier the vibes get
That’s closer to the truth than you might think. Germans are having less babies, and most of the immigrants are Turks and Arabs, who do have big families. Simple math, like it or not. I am not saying we should kick them out or discriminate against them, but that does not change the fact that he is more right than wrong.
@@Anonymous-sq6eo quick question: how do you define "German" - and would you say the melanin content of your skin says anything about how German you are? (edit: not trying to put words in your mouth - but at least in the context of the video it seems that German (or European for that matter) equals white.) That aside. Germans having less babies (as in: the birthrate dropped to about 1.5) is true. most of the immigrants being Turks or Arabs is, however, wrong. Most of the immigrants are Romanians, followed by Poles, Bulgarians, Italians, Kroatians and then it's perople from Syria and Turkey. (Germans re-immigrating to Germany excluded). (quick look at the national statistics, 2019). Now, it is a question / a point of discussion / a claim that pops up every so often and while I would intuitively agree with hamanime 'well, I have a gut feeling' isn't an argument. So allow me to think out loud for a moment as I try to find a better reply. Only looking at the immigration (as opposed to the saldo; immigrants from an area minus emigrants to that area) (2020): of 1.6-ish million about 1.2m are from Europe (of which about 40k are from Turkey and about 20k from Russia). Now, not axactly sure who 'the Turks' are - if it's just Turkey or also other nations in that area. So I'll leave that open. As for 'the Arabs' I suppose you mean 'the Arab world' adding the immigration numbers from those 22 states we arrive at ~125k (with the most coming from Syria and Iraq) and it includes those whose nationality is unclear, unknown or who don't have one (total of ~10k). Afaik immigration is also not tied to acquiring the German nationality - the only ones not included are those who are 'waiting on their status' as what I think is now called a "regular migrant" (aka someone showing up at the immigration office with all the needed documents and is waiting to be entered in the 'residence registry' - no idea if that's how it's actually called. But you have to tell the state where your place of residence in Germany is.) - those registered as refugees / applying for the status as a refugee seem to be counted as formally their residence in Germany is whatever facility they stay at. Granted, the German-wide average of mothers-of-not-German-nationality is ~25% (2019) but given the above numbers I would assume the majority of those 25% are from other European countries. www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migration/_node.html www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Bevoelkerung/Wanderungen/Publikationen/Downloads-Wanderungen/wanderungen-2010120187004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile (only German though)
@@Anakianaj Generically European, German...stop the bullshit. Europeans are being bullied with socialists opening the gates of false prosperity to wild illegals who could care less about our culture. It's only to destroy our sovereignty
@@Fatelovesirony960 look, I'm open to have a discussion. but if you make an argument, please support it with facts and evidence from credible sources. My line of thinking is that generally people tend to be biased in some way and looking at the numbers can put things into perspective. If of the over a million and a half people that immigrate to Germany (which includes those whose status is so far unclear afaik) only a faction are not from the OECD countries (as in their nationality) then there's really not much else to say about it. Except you have some information that I don't have and would be kind enough to share your sources with me?
I am so glad I found this so early 😭 I've recently converted and have been taking notes, and I was using him as a guide since I believed he was experienced
For those that have a fervent belief that Heathenry is, in fact, a race based religion and you call yourself Folkish/Völkish. You must understand that Völkish, or Folkish, is not Heathenry. The practice of Norse Paganism has existed far before beliefs like Folkish. Folkish was, and is, a set of ideologies that was made to give Germany a sense of national identity. This national identity was based in antisemitism, racial superiorty and agrarianism. Völkish writers like Guido von List and Richard Wagner took Germanic and Norse beliefs and twisted them to fit their ideologies. Völkish was in part the basis for the NSDAPs ideologies. No matter what the AFA says Völkish is not Heathenry. You are not a true pagan if you follow the AFA. Germanic beliefs are cultural in nature, Völkish is not. If you are Völkish, just know that you are not and never will be a pagan, when part of your beliefs draws inspiration from Christianity. You are just co-opting symbols and beliefs to push your belief in race based supremacy. You are not a practitioner of Heathenry. You are not a pagan. You are only a racist. You are not a true pagan when your beliefs are based on appropriated and distorted historical and religious symbols, all for the purpose of politics. Your beliefs are not based in what we know our ancestors believed, your beliefs are, again, based on distortions of ancestural heritage. If you wish to believe in an ahistorical distortion of Paganism, you are free to do so, but know that your version is not and never will be the true form of Paganism.
@@dapperspaghettimonster also there was this capitol rioter that is heathen I think and hes a republican. Also the Nazis were very supportive of paganism since they liked their roots.
Thank you so much for this video. I am a norse pagan and live in Spain, because of the language I didn't know this until now. As a LGTB person I thank you deeply for this response and for taking the time and work for open our eyes about WoO
Hi Maria. Yo nací en Puerto Rico, mi familia es de España y Portugal. I’m looking for more information on the pagan traditions of Iberia. Do you have any books or channels you could recommend?
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Wolf the Red made a followup to this video with a lot more information, turns out things are far worse than I knew when making this video. You can see his video here: ruclips.net/video/aTRTZ0zfWz4/видео.html
If you think the Ancient Norse Vikings, would tolerate Transsexuals, or even Homosexuals in their ranks, you are an idiot. These people worshipped STRENGTH, the rainbow crowd would be banished from their villages, racism is normal for Non Christians, ethnocentrism is in all peoples, it not right, but it is what it is.
Ready to admit you were fooled by the covid scam yet?
Ocean I fight them! Idc about who likes me or who doesn’t! You can’t condone behavior that’s morally wrong….
@@Ruralronin Morals depend on the person
@@johnmctavish3544 ok. Doesn’t change what I said.
Note to self; Ocean has a scary mode.
And. It. Is. Awesome.
Well considered, well worded, well presented.
Thank you, Ocean.
nah. calling europein ethno things racist, is racist, you wouldnt say that about other races doing the same
@@audhumbla6927 Except you would. Paganism and Heathenry are religious in nature and not racial. We may think of it as uncommon but we don't see Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, ect. turning away people that aren't ethnically representative of the faiths region of origin, and the same stands for Paganism and Heathenism. The AFA is at it's core a white supremacist hate group and should be recognized as such.
@@T0B3Announc3d Ur wrong. all paganism is local and specific to its people. If a native american would say that only his people can practice his belief, you wouldnt say shit, so stop having diffrent standards for whites, thats racism. Paganism is ancestral.
@@T0B3Announc3d Judaism is the most racist religion on earth lmao.
Haitian Vodoun, Santeria, Palo Mayombe are all ancestral based faiths like Norse heathenry.
As someone who's recently come into exploring this path, I found him first.
I appreciate you bringing this forward.
With my mixed family, I am mad for not realizing this sooner.
I found him yesterday. Whoops.
I am in a similar situation
Means something to me on my journey. Then I edited to add one missing letter and lost it. And thus is how it works in what we call life. The quest for the unobtainable...perfection...typically leads to going from being as close as one can get w/o being to rolling one's ass into another zip code.
Sometimes I wonder if I am replying to the intended recipient!?
With a mixed family you've got bigger problems.
The thing that really bugs me about the Asatru Folk Society (aside from the obvious stuff) is their implied anti-adoption stance. Of all people, I feel the Norsemen should understand that family is more than blood.
@Gerrit Todd I mean adopting Loki was canonically a pretty poor decision.
@@cbo1244 I'm talking about the original Eddas and Sagas.
Bruh literal Norse/Germanic clans were all almost exclusively blood relatives/direct family what're you talking about? I mean unless you wanna' count slaves as adoption lmao.
I strongly agree, as and Icelander I was raised in a society that was (and still sometimes is) very conservative when it came to the tradition and values of our ancestors and one of the most cherished and sacred values is: Family is sacred. No matter if some one was related in blood or not, if you loved them like family, treated them like family and viewed them as family. Then they are family, and if someone dishonored or wronged one member of the family, it was viewed as a dishonor and wrong doing on all of them. Why do you think the sagas have so many blood feuds going on.
To quote Dom Torreto,"Family."
the pagan community should be a safe place for all people no matter your sexual orientation, gender, race, culture, or nationality. we can and all should be able to be who we are.
I am a Black American veteran in his 50's that has always since I was a child viewed the All-Father as the face of God.
I am the 5th generation of a family of Soldiers that has served in all our wars since the civil war.
After watching your video's and hearing the wisdom of your thoughts I have decided to subscribe to your channel.
Hail, and know you are, without question, most welcome in this faith
Odin in called the All-Father, not the Some-Father, after all.
Ooga booga
@@hippyjoe Booga ooga. lol
Warrior family u have.
I've never considered myself to be a FAN of WoO, but I subscribed to his channel and watched most of his videos. The bigger his community grows, the more it gives off the feeling of turning more and more into a cult. I wasn't able to put my finger on it, but watching his content gave me very mixed feelings. After watching this video, I will unsubscribe WoO immediately and will share this message. This is so so so important! Thank you for putting this together!!
Totally agree.... only watched a couple of his videos... and just couldn't put my finger on what bothered me... but needless to say...don't watch his videos anymore... 🤷♀️
Yeah me too. The more I watched the more culty it got.
He’s giving me the vibe of someone who’s never belonged and probably was bullied and now overdoes it and gets high on power, I can’t take him seriously or respect him. Meanwhile ocean comes off as an amazing and respectable man just through his intellect and wisdom, he doesn’t have to be flashy or anything.
Isn't all religions a technical form of a cult tho, not starting an argument with anyone just my view on it
@@Cathy1864 Yeah gonna have to disagree with you there he had 2 females getting married at one of his gatherings .. but this video just seem to attack his choices of freedom like the Covid crap .. if your worried about Covid stay home .. Sorry but seems here Ocean is just punching down and twisting his words.. could Jacob have worded it better sure but .. Gender identity isn't fluid your one or the other that's biology ..
So, new pagan here. Only reason I know of WoO is because the YT algorithm put him front and center in my feed. I personally found him a little too, woo woo for lack of a better term. Some information seemed ok but I kept searching being new to paganism and also being someone that likes to read and absorb information. As I've learned more I think WoO is just doing this for cash. Which by itself, ok whatever, but coupled with the AFA stuff and the seemingly predatory behavior of new pagans who are vulnerable as new pagans and will latch onto whatever "nice" face gets presented in front of them. And I think thats what this dude is doing, presenting a nice face and exploiting the vulnerable to get money while hiding his toxic behavior.
Edit: I want to say thank you Ocean for being a reliable source of information. I like the historical approach of what I have seen so far. I feel I have some differing political views but nothing that couldn't be talked over and I get the feeling you'd be down for that if we were in a situation we were talking one on one about it. Regardless, I appreciate your work. What I have seen so far.
Thanks ocean ,someone needed to tell him his views are not our views, and he really wasn't needed in the internet anyway he had nothing too teach ,no wisdom of Odin to pass on
I always felt like he was a bit show off like and i wasn't sure what i thought abt him but after this video I've made up my mind I'm glad i found ocean first
He literally has no connection to the afa, also im guessing you havent listened to his podcast he uses alot of the donations and puts it forward to buying land for a hall.
@@crushinnihilism “you’re a pagan role playing as a Viking” simply means someone who is a pagan, which can refer to a broad spectrum of different faiths, is cosplaying as a Viking, which for the Norse, was a job.
So essentially you’re saying “you’re a non Christian cosplaying as a Viking, just be atheist like a rational person.” Which I assume isn’t the message you were trying to send.
Im a former atheist who converted to Norse paganism. I know the general atheist view of reality(obviously there’s some differences between people since atheism is not a monolith). I know that trying to convince you of the validity of my faith is a pointless endeavor, so I will not try.
Instead, I’ll say this: this comment is no different from an evangelical Christian telling us to believe what they believe. Is that the energy you want to bring to a mature discussion?
@@crushinnihilism ah, my apologies. That comment looked suspiciously evangelical so I didn’t realize you weren’t being antagonistic
When he says he doesn't 'openly' support them makes it sound like he's slipping them twenties under the table or something.
"i don't OPENLY support them guys! not OPENLY!"
*asks steven mcnallen about how to celebrate holidays on twitter*
It's just a serpents way of saying "your too stupid to read between the lines"
saying you don't openly support someone kind of means you openly support them though ...
like, it implies you covertly support them, but obviously you just told everyone.
Well, he was a used car salesman before he got this gig, so...
@@phyllisdicks9830 I read that as "used car swordsman" XD
I recently converted to from atheism to Norse Paganism, and I’ve found myself on WoO’s channel a lot because I am still a beginner when it comes to the actual practices of the faith. Thank you for preemptively stopping me from going down the wrong path
Lol. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad person.
@@FableIVGaming It does, softy.
@@Dice_roller So to be a good person you have to be a Progressive and agree with every single tenet of that faith? Lol it's absolutely hilarious that you far leftists claim to be "pagan", actual pagans from the past would eat you for breakfast. Figuratively speaking of course, I'm not saying they were cannibals, I just mean they would not recognize you as kin. They would be disgusted by many of your beliefs and practices, and you would be disgusted by nearly all of theirs.
You did not convert to Norse Paganism. You already follow a religion. If I insulted Odin, you wouldn't care at all. But if I said something about race and IQ, you would be horrified and attack me as though I just blasphemed your god. That's because you are already a zealous acolyte in the Cult of Woke.
I just came across this video and have been watching your channel to get a better understanding of norse heathenry (my boyfriend is a heathen and is actually on your discord server). I greatly appreciate this video as one of the things that made me, as a Jewish person, incredibly nervous when my SO started exploring heathenry was the ties it has had to the alt right. He actually told me about this video and I've come to see so many heathens speaking out about the AFA and it's put me so much at ease. I also just want to be as supportive as I can.
I’m truly gladdened to know I have a brother who thinks like me. Just found you! Already a fan brother.
Agreed. It's really nice to hear all this.
i agree
@@aaronhuntsman7176 yes? What do you want?
This seriously makes me angry. I'm a naturalist atheist. But that's just me. I was SO close to being a full blown anti-theist. I wanted to say "all religion is bad. Nothing good comes from it!" But then I found you. Aliaki. Wolf the red. Calon. And it softened me. It helped me. And I love watching ya'lls content. I love learning about what you believe. You've thought through it, you've discussed it, and discovered something. I know we'll differ on just what you discovered but you have it! And it occasionally makes me pause and think "you know, there might be something to this whole god(s) thing after all."
But folkists, and WoO and the AFA come in and try really hard to destroy that. They make it SO easy for an angry atheist to point to them and say "see? Paganism isn't any better than Christianity or Islam! Paganism still makes people stupid sheep that want to kill in the name of their religion too!!"
These people and their actions are not only dangerous to social progress. Not only create fertile ground for potential violence. Not only dangerous to frith and pagan unity. It is also dangerous to the growth of paganism itself. For both outreach so paganism as a whole will be considered and respected, but also bringing new pagans into a safe and accepting religion where they feel comfortable and free to be who they are with the blessing of their gods.
I am certain that if I found a folkist or WoO instead of you, I'd be an angry anti-theist today. And that's not OK. I don't know how much I can do or how much it matters, but you have my support in getting rid of these people.
No frith with folkists.
I just read this comment and damn. This hit me. Thanks for your words.
@Trinity M you must be new. The "violent sheep" comment in reference to the Abrahamic religions is a common argument used by anti-theists to try to discredit religion. It is common, and thus well known, especially in the atheists spheres. (A place Ocean frequents.) I do not agree with that take as I am not an anti-theist. And obviously, I didn't exactly go into the nuance of the argument because frankly, it didn't matter. The point wasn't that the argument was valid its that anti-theists will use folkism to try to strengthen the argument.
If you want to talk legitimacy of religion, we can do that. If you want to talk about harm that religion does, or harm that people do in the name of religion, we can talk about that too. But that's not the conversation being had.
The conversation being had is simply that folkism gives anti-theists more ammunition to be dicks to religious people and I don't like that. So folkism needs to not. Hence no frith with folkists.
No matter where you go and no matter what group you associate with at some point you are going to run into bad people because there are good and bad in all groups. That is something you should probably keep in mind. The best thing you can do is find a group of people you can stand and hang out with them. You don't all have to think and believe the exact same things. I don't trust groupthink and hive minds myself, but as long as there is respect and open, honest communication that is the important thing.
@Trinity M Buddy. As a member of the Faith, I just have this to say: read through the post again. Properly, this time.
This honestly breaks my heart. I thought I finally found a group like his community to worship and practice with and I guess I didn't. Being in his discord and all that I still felt like I didn't fit in and some of the things being said gave a cult like feel to it. The group gatherings, the membership, a fundraiser for a hall, and so much more. Don't get me wrong I would love to attend those but it felt like a mini hierarchy was forming and it felt weird to me. It felt like I was back in the Mormon church, paying to worship and exist with my heathen family. Thank you for this and I'm kicking myself for not seeing this video sooner
Hierarchy is not an issue, that is a fundamental, meaning inescapable, part of all society. The issue is what that hierarchy is based on.
@@patrickbertlein4626im always suspicious when someone says hierarchy isn't the problem lolol you're gonna need to clarify what you mean because all hierarchies have the potential of tyranny built into the framework
@@eminentbishop1325 hierarchies are a natural part of any social structure, even if implicit. Yes, it has potential for tyranny, but it also brings order to chaos. Nothing is absolutely good or bad. There is a right dose for everything, and hierarchies are no different. A healthy hierarchy benefits everyone, while an unhealthy one turns into tyranny indeed
@@victor_bueno_br hierarchies are not natural. Its a conceptualization of reality, not reality itself. What people define as hierarchies is just a means to organize information into a definitional framework, which in itself it can limited i.e. you defining it as a natural process when hierarchy isnt something that exist in the natural world. Its not as if animals purposely organize themselves into these systems. The systems are just tools we use to simplify complex sets of data and the hard truth is that the spectrum of truth is far wider than it can intuitively seem
@@victor_bueno_br but i should say i dont necessarily disagree. Social systems seem to organize along those lines. How natural that is or a representation of a good for society i think is that gray area of discussion
As a lifelong atheist who has recently been teetering on the edge of finding some form of faith stumbling across your videos while searching for intersectional pagans, I really can’t thank you more for making your stances on racism, nationalism, homophobia, and responsibility to your community so clearly and firmly stated. So, seriously, thank you so very much. I’m glad I came across your channel.
ou do know that Vikings didn't accept LGBT+ People, It was considered an insult, If you google the word "Eigir" you'll learn how Vikings nor Oden would accept a trans or LGBT person into asgard, You were given your gender by the gods when you were born and it should stay that way, stop trying to be special. It doenst matter what these people think, History is History and you would've been killed for you actions back in the day.
You're young and ignorant, you'll grow out of it, but dont expect Allfather to turn his eye towards you until you accept who you are, which is the gender you were born with.
It pisses me off that people like you "Look into Paganism" You're the ones making our religon look like a joke to the outside world and you are the reason we'll never be taken serious, If you're a man Thor will beat his hammer until you find yourself back to your masculinity and if you're a woman, may Freja guide you back to your Nurturing and Loving Feminine side. End of Discussion.
Sincerely Whilliam Nilsson
and that’s what turns people away from faith, as I have, even as a straight cis male. If that is how the gods really are, they deserve nothing more than sneering contempt, and you deserve even less than that.
This is how the gods really die, they simply outlive their usefulness. After all, _we_ created _them,_ not the other way around, and we just as easily snuff them out. Götterdämmerung, literally.
OK could someone answer this question for me! I live with a Christian and a Jewish roommate I've had many conversations about religion and recently we've had quite a few conversations about the AFA due to them being in the news more. My Jewish roommate lived in Israel for many years and she had an interesting perspective on the AFA saying that you can't truly follow "Asatru" unless you are of northern European decent.. she pointed out that many Jewish people look down or don't really consider you a true member of the Jewish tribe if you convert because membership in the tribe is solely based of your decent. She also brought up how Hasidic Jews generally don't allow marriage outside of the tribe. She also said that she believes she has a deeper connection with her god because she can trace her family back to the 12 original tribes. So my question is this..why is it acceptable for other religions or cultures to allow or not allow conversion based on ethnicity or decent but when it comes to a Northern European religion it is considered deplorable. If you are Jewish or Muslim you can usually trace your heritage back to the 12 tribes or Muhammad (ie the Saudi royalty) however many northern Europeans are also able to trace their family back to the royal family's of northern Europe (ie the Danish and Swedish royalty trace their liniage back to King Gorm the Old who claimed decent from the Volsung tribe which in turn we are told by the Saga of the Volsungs was decended from Odin.) So again where do we draw the line with what is OK and what is not acceptable?
You should have heard the non sense the Southern Baptist Church taught back in the 1980's regarding the 12 tribes, the lost tribes, and how the children of Noah populated the world. Such as the Danes are the descended of the tribe of Dan. Young Earth creationist fluff.
Your Jewish friend doesn’t really represent the Jewish ideology, it sounds like Zionist rhetoric to me, especially likely if she was raised in the Israeli school system where they teach the racist genetic narrative, I should know I spent time there growing up. The Ashkenazim (Slavic Jews) have used that narrative against the Mizrahim (Arab Jews) to claim ethnic superiority and establish segregated schools and neighborhoods.
But there’s a reason why there’s these different “Jewish ethnic groups”, because they’re so heavily mixed with other non Semites, like Russian (Slavic) Jews, Amazigh (indigenous North African) Jews, Kurdish (Indo-Iranic) Jews, etc. these people are not even related to each other anymore. Only your mother has to be Jewish for you to be recognized, and it’s mostly the orthodox that still practice that, converts are more accepted now.
The Jewish law isn’t about genetics being passed down, Judaism allows for lots mixing, it’s about upholding the cultural and religious traditions, which is a duty allocated to the mother.
Many people in Europe have female Jewish ancestors, I’m German and I have them way back in my matrilineal ancestry, so by the law I could be recognized as Jewish if I wanted to, even though no one has been Jewish in my family for over 200 years. And even my best friend is half Polish (Jewish mother) and Irish, her synagogue recognizes her. And her husband is a heavily mixed Peruvian, so by Jewish law their children will be recognized as Polish-Irish-Spanish-Scottish-Quechua-Italian Jews, and will most likely be offered a “birthright” trip to Jerusalem even though they don’t have any ethnic Semitic ancestry or if they do it’s about 1% now. They would hold more genetic claim to Machu Picchu and Brú na Bóinne than to Jerusalem.
That whole genetic thing is a more recent racist “one drop rule” narrative adopted by zionists to validate the colonization of the Fertile Crescent and to treat native Semitic Jews (such as Syrian Jews) like second class citizens and appropriate their specific cultures as their own. It’s equivalent to Euro-Americans being like “I’m 1/36th Cherokee so therefore I get to wear a Navajo ritual headdress”.
Thank you for coming to my tedtalk
@@BunsBooks "Polish-Irish-Spanish-Scottish-Quechua-Italian-Jews" 🤣 excellent! Thanks for the reply I really wanted a differing opinion!
Because the white race is weak and being abused because of their weakness and naivety. Im Ulster Scottish and grew up in LA. There wasn't a day that went by where I wasn't reminded of my race. The most fervent antiracist "conservative" republicans who refuse to see race and to stick up for their own people seem to very densely populate the midwest and rural 99% white communities here in America. It is almost as it they have had it easy and havent had neighbors r*ped and killed.
Be it Odin or Christ. Both better send me to hell for not fighting for my people.
Because there is a war on whitey. Be ashamed and breed out your race.
No frith with Nazis!
I have been apart of the Heathen community for a year now and for the last two months I was a Patreon member of Wisdom of Odin. I was blinded by the need for a community and did not pick up on the way Jacob talked and how he discussed certain topics until I was shown Aliakai's video about 3 days ago. I then began looking at your videos along with Red the Wolf. I thank you for this information because I was introduced to Heathenry when I worked in corrections and saw it used as a white supremacists movement. I have worked very hard this last year when I told people I was Heathen to make sure they understood that I support all sexual orientations and races because I would be asked about that alot when people found out about my path in the old ways. So again thank you for the information and I look forward to obtaining more knowledge from open minded Heathens.
I have to congratulate you on being able to acknowledge where you made mistakes or didn't spot red flags. That can be really difficult. Ocean's discord (Ocean's Hold) is an excellent place to start with a solid community.
@@OrganisedChaosHere do you know how to join? I made similar mistakes for the same reasons
@@kassietheobald9165 If you look in the description of any of the omnipotent beard podcast episodes, there's a link labelled discord. That link should let you join. There's a pretty active entry point to chat in which is a few channels while the mods get a feel for you (protects us against bigots) and once you get past that point the server is a whole lot bigger.
This is a great video especially since YT pushes his videos on Norse paganism. I recently started looking into Norse paganism and watching some WoO videos did nothing sit right with me. Coincidentally afterwards I came across Aliakai and her video which confirmed my suspicions.
Hey, I've got a similar experience. Its like a BS detector went off listening to him.
I recommend downloading the app "Pagan and Witches Amino" its helped me.
Alikais video on this subject was recommended to me like right after a video I watched of him disturbed me. The gods know what they’re doing.
Yeah his vids seemed kinda cool at first but the more I watched the more something has started to feel a little off. At first I thought he was just a bit of a show-boating type, and he seemed maybe a bit arrogant. I had not gotten to any of his videos where he said any of the stuff sited in this video though, and just..... wow. I'm not familiar with Aliakai, I'll have to take a look at her vids.
I watched one full episode and a couple segments of his channel and had too much cringy creepy crawlies to go any further, not to mention he just sounds like a dick.
I used to follow Jacob when he first started the channel. He gave a warm welcome to the new people coming into heathenry while also putting a smile on my face.
It hurts to have to turn my back on the dude but well, Cult leader vibes.
All though I do hope he manages to see past his blindness as well as the toxic people around him.
You can call them toxic but atleast they stay in their lane . I find woke people patrolling and complaining about everybody else's opinions toxic. Waste of time.
@@OriginalFallofMind
Woke people don't "patrol", they call out the hate where they see it on their path. Being woke simply means to be aware of social issues, so proudly, that is what I am. If your opinions are called out as toxic, you are probably hurting someone.
My first introduction to Heathenry was WoO(Yes, I know he and his lot are Asatru) then I got a good feel for his community and dipped. I found your videos shortly after and they are quite helpful.
This is the first time I've heard of any of these people or the AFA. Then again I'm British and my focus has been on reading the eddas and learning about the Gods
Hey wookie, I'd stick to that ,these organisations are just nuts
@The Wookie
Good focus, my friend! That's my own, as well.
Same bro because when things become huge and organized things branch out and big problems occur just keeping doing what your doing be yourself by yourself is the best way.
This is the first instance of the AFA being brought to my attention as well and I am deeply disturbed that they have such an appaling view of this kind. Honestly I was unaware that issues of this kind existed in heathen society.
@@sabeydanielgmailcom I'm kinda the same. I was aware that the NatSocs and WS had seized some symbols and used the Gods in "heretical ways" but I wasn't aware of a formal organisation doing it until I watched this
Well damn. Ocean's got an intimidating streak to him. He's usually so calming that I didn't see that coming.
It was a necessary point though. While unity is a largely good thing, there are some people you just can't afford to unify with as is. Besides, bigotry is inherently exclusionary. Unifying with them in excluding everyone they are bigoted against.
Thank you Ocean. As a minority myself, it means lot to see you take a stand for us. ❤
@Bean Oak There is nothing intelligent about you! (Ocean struck a nerve, snowflake?)
"intimidating" LOL
Even with his mistake and poor practices, I do have to thank him for helping me in my early days of the faith, which did in turn lead me to you. It is sad to see someone go down a path of poor decisions. But I am glad to be informed of his mistakes before I got lost in them myself. Thank you.
@Anglo-Saxon believing in something like gods or mythology is literally belief / faith what are you on about
you cant say, that ones practice is poor thats wrong
I'm still a bit of a Heathen hatchling right now, and I started my research and experience in the community through woo and I became a patron and signed up for the yule gathering but as of recent I've been discovering videos left and right exposing woo and his community, thank you for opening my eyes to the truth about woo and leading me to canceling my patron subscription and leaving his discord server
This was like watching my favorite history teacher tear apart the class clown for not paying attention. It was fun to see your angry side for once and I have to say, I've never seen a man be so angry yet so calm at the same time.
@Anglo-Saxon Idk why?
I’m not Heathen but I’m fascinated by the religion and love learning more. What you said about WoO was facts man, we need more good people like you in the world, period.
Well then you are not learning, just joining the mobs.
I was apart of WoO patreon and discord for a few months before one day I cancelled everything and left without a word. I have never personally spoken to Jacob but there is a vibe in his groups and with his content that is very specific. I felt like I had to follow Jacob's path of paganism to fit in. If you aren't in the clique then what you have to say is overlooked and I was left feeling degraded and confused. Luckily I've been sucked into spiritual blackholes before and pulled myself out pretty easy but I can imagine that new pagans and lonely practitioners really let this type of thing flood their mind. It's a sticky situation that's for sure
Sacrificing this post to the algorithm as engagement 🔥🤷🔥
Thank you for this eye opening WoO was the first hethan content channel I came across well I was referred to them by a friend. Anyway I'm glad to be here to experiance your content. I find the structer of your videos and the way you speak to be quite captivating and well thought out and organized. Thank you for the information ocean.
My only question, is why is it a bad thing that some people still want white people? Why do we have to conform to the new “social norm” and have multiracial families? There’s nothing wrong with it at all, someone’s race shouldnt dictate who loves them but if he is right, that white people are starting to dwindle and aren’t keeping our population numbers the same then are we not going to put ourselves at risk of persecution? Look at the United States right now, the socioeconomic support for white people is far less than that of any other race. I’ve been denied from colleges before just because I didn’t meet the criteria for my race. Even in the military all it takes is one person to claim you made a racist statement and you can lose your career and possibly even face jail time even if you never made such a statement
Man keep up the great work. WoO pushes innacurate information which took me months to find out by myself. I applaud you and Aliakai for being courageous for speaking the truth. Wassail!
Which "inaccurate information" exactly?
@@alfredharrison597 pretty much everything. All the information he quotes from either come from outdated books with outdated innacurate information or is his personal take on aspects of the faith that don't match to what the history and texts state. And worse he is racist.
@@luchadorelmachomalo Oh no not the 'R' word. Pretty much everything in heathenry and paganism is peoples interpretations and opinions on text that even the oldest, were second and third hand accounts of stories
Stephen Mcnallen sounds exactly like a christian scamvangelous preacher....
>believes in ethnic religions
>angry when someone mentions they are ethnic
How is it racist to say that heathen gods are in the DNA of certain European people? Is Yahweh the Abrahamic god not in the DNA of most semitic people? Are the Loa not in the DNA and ancestry of sub-saharan African traditions and their diaspora?
Uh yeah all of that would be not only racist but reductive mockery of the Gods.
@@OceanKeltoi how? Explain.
@@lk1590 i’ve gone into this in other videos. But essentially it limits the Gods in favor of poor politics, which is just a mockery of the Gods. This all boils down to spiritual protectionism in the form of identity politics, which is just racism.
Hey all, what are some non-problematic Heathen RUclipsrs y’all would recommend? There’s Ocean and Wolf, obviously, but for people new to Heathenry (Hi everyone), it can be kind of difficult to sort out the bad apples...
@Kyladescope I can vouch for Wind in the Worldtree personally. He's a good man and extremely intelligent and thoughtful in his observations.
Arith Härger
Sarenth Odinsson is good too.
Skaldi is a good one
As mentioned by others Arith Harger has great factual historical info, and he has openly addressed many of the issues talked about here regarding ancient Norse attitudes on homosexuality and gender as being nothing like AFA. If you want in depth information from a truly intelligent and kind person you’ll like him.
as a dane, i find this butchering of my and my ancestors belifs wildly offensive to me. (dane, from denmark, in scandinavia) if any was wondering. good vid my dude
As a fellow Dane, I wholeheartedly agree. Nothing in the sagas or Eddas mention Volkish rhetoric. There are many archeological finds of Viking Corpses of other ethnicities, meaning being a Viking was more so cultural than ethnic.
As an American who just started practicing.. my sincerest apologies for my shithead country. I wanted to connect with my ancestors and find some sense of identity outside of my Christian upbringing and I’ve been utterly distrusted learning how it’s practiced here in the states. I live in the northwest, in one of the most progressive and accepting cities in the country, and everyday I see ravens. I do not think this is a coincidence. I believe the Aesir are with those who worship regardless of anything else.
@@neurohackstv5723 not to mention that there have been graves found with people who were at very least gender nonconforming if not somewhere on the transgender/non-binary spectrum.
@The Bearded Dragon gender nonconforming just refers to people who do not conform to cultural gender norms, so like a woman doing an assumed male task like joining a raiding force, they are still women. We call them tomboys nowadays. No need to be offended, it's not a new idea.
Here I was quoting the interpretations of grave goods by professional archaeologists in reference to female warriors being explicitly buried with grave goods associated with male warriors and not shield maidens and regular female warriors. There have also been viking graves of non-combatant males buried in female clothing and with female-associated goods. These people may have just been defying gender roles or they may have been what we call transgender now. There have also been rare graves associated with individuals with a mix of gendered grave goods. We also know from text that Loki's gender descriptors and pronouns change when in a female form, indicating explicite gender fluidity, compared to when Thor disguised as a woman, but still referred to explicitly as male.
It is hard to say much on people being explicitly transgender, nonbinary, or gender fluid, especially as these explicit descriptors are recent. There is an enormous body of evidence of what we call transgender and nonbinary people existing throughout human history in non-viking cultures. Gender variance was generally better tolerated in pre-Judeo-Christian cultures. Because of this, gender variance and gender role defiance was demonized in Judeo-Christian holy texts. Generally, if a group is not othered or demonized, humans don't come up with special words for them, since they're seen as unusual parts of the norm.
(Also, the exisrence of transgender people is not a load of bull. It is well documented that there are metabolic and physical brain morphology differences between pretreatment transgender and cisgender people, biology says non-cisgender people are real).
I know that the existence of transgender people is the hot new culture war, but that doesn't mean that we might possibly have existed among the viking population.
@The Bearded Dragon oh, yes, women serving in the Marines would be considered gender-nonconforming as it's not commonly expected for a woman to enter military service, and usually actively discouraged. This has nothing to do with her brain's gender or her instinctual sexual preferences.
He claims to have had a vision of Odin telling him to "gather the folk." 🙄 Yeah, ok, guy
His name is Jacob. Idk why that makes me laugh as hard as it does.
@@proudsaiyanprince2651 I looked up what Jacob meant as a name and now I'm laughing too! :D
heaven forbid someone has a religious experience when practicing a religion. you're just an atheist LARPer.
Yeah, its funny
Thank you for this, i am very new to norse paganism but i come from punk rock and this is a very similiar fight the struggles of true skinheads. Thank you for this information, I feel much more confident and welcomed as a queer person. This honestly means a lot. ❤
Thank the Gods for this video and all the resources listed. Sometimes this ocean of information is difficult to navigate, especially when you’re new. Thanks so much.
OK, I've got an honest hard question... I've never been to a group blot, but I've been a practicing pagan for about 2yrs now. Why can't all of us just be fine with our ancestors? Why do my "white" germanic ancestors matter, to anyone else but me? If your "black", are your ancestors not just as important to you? Whatever you are, wherever your from, is important, because it's what you come from. Can we not all respect that and praise that idea. And give reverence to all ancestors? Why does one have to be more "true" than the other to some people?? Why the comparison? You do you and I do me, and we respect each other when we meet for dinner or blót, what's so hard about that?
BTW, I think mostly ancestors matter most when you know/remember them specifically. I do not know King Harold, other than stories, so... what would this matter if I was relation without knowledge of that ancestor specifically?
I think the problem here is even AFA say you do you and i do me, they do not seek to impose their worldview on anyone but themselves, they just want to remain separate and isolated like many faiths, especially Native American ones which were a big influence on McNallen. This video condemning them however is trying to force other people to conform with their beliefs and worldview
@@fritjofvalerijs800 I agree. If a bunch of people want to form a spiritual or religious group that excludes certain people, ok; let them. As long as they're not forcing people to join them and don't abuse or attack others, I see no problem. I feel that attacking these sort of groups only validates, in their eyes, any concerns or fears they may have. If they want to separate themselves from others, peacefully, let them. In a way, making videos condemning a group I probably would not have found out about otherwise is just free advertising for them.
@@kalinora3901 Interesting view which should be discussed at a table, because I do see your point as well as I can understand ppl feeling threatened by this group. I'm with you though that I wouldn't have heard about the AFA most likely without some of Ocean's videos and me personally, I couldn't care less about them.
The issue with this is when honoring your ancestors turns into thinking that your skin color makes you superior to every different skin color out there. Groups like the AFA with racially exclusionist philosophies rarely stop at 'merely' being exclusionist, and often act as a foundation to more extremist views and possible activities; it's not a coincidence that many members of the AFA have also been found to be members of more radical Volkish and supremacist organizations (and are a big reason for the rise of heathen symbols among neo-Nazi and fascist groups).
It's really nice to find a creator who has addressed this so directly. I don't mean Wisdom of Odin, I mean the whole concept of race and acceptance in the community. Involving myself in this community I was given a word of warning to stay on high alert for the predatory and problematic sides of the religion, and thus far you're the only person who has taken the (correct) stance of acceptance within the community. Thanks.
hell yes hail to ocean keltoi
You are the king of soy in the pagan community
More of a chicken and rice guy tbh
I’m so glad I found you, wolf the red, and wind in the world tree. Thank you for the guidance.
Were all just men and women trying to live good by the Gods and Goddesses. Some do it well, others not so much. In the end i wish anyone who follows the path the best in this life and the best in their mind.
Well put; more light put on the bundle of red flags out there.
Didn't really have much of an opinion of the guy (only seen maybe 5 of his videos) but I'm glad this is being brought up. At least the RUclips algorithm is finally recommended channels from more communities of Heathens. Prior to this I had no idea your channel existed. I look forward to seeing more from your channel.
I went into this video as WoO fan, but after this, I sadly can't watch and support Jacob any more. I will say, He has some good videos, But he has some shitty associations that I simply can't stand by or even try to justify. This is very disheartening information to hear.
I’m the exact same as you, but glad I know this info now so I don’t waste my time as a new pagan
I'm in the same boat. I even recommend him and I've just finished sharing this video with those people and hope they follow suit and stop support him.
Same. I've been on this path for 11 years and stumbled across Jacob's work a few months ago. I've watched the majority of his videos but had not listened to the podcasts, and I am not active on twitter, so I missed this troubling information.
I'm sure Ocean ended up in my recommends because of WoO, and I'm wary of new sources but his "Viking puppers" video won me over :D Yes, Fenrir is a good doggo. I've since subscribed here and been exploring the channel - and honestly I've actively avoided this video while I determined whether I felt I could trust Ocean's content. Here I am, and I am shocked and dismayed. I have enjoyed Jacob's conversational style and the relative safety and casual nature of his video topics (something I can watch without feeling the overwhelming urge to take notes). Not sure I'll stay there much longer, at minimum I won't be recommending his work to anyone until he speaks out on this topic
Don’t need to her about woke BS.
This isn’t “WOKE” snowflake.
If only Japanese can truly be Shinto, why shouldn't only Germanics be Asatru?
I hope the Algorithm really picks this up, its important. This is the nail in the coffin really. He has no excuse and he cannot meet the bare minimum. He should know better and he wants to pretend he does, which he clearly doesn't. Thanks Ocean.
All cultures used to be really proud of their ancestry. Why is it seen as racism today?
It's only racist when White people do it. Everyone else gets a pass.
Got here from Suris's channel. Same for Aliakai's channel. Glad to know you. Subscribed.
I'm just a traveler passing through. I honestly never seriously looked into the AFA or Declaration 127. I honestly didn't even know that it existed. But I'm glad it does and I'm grateful to have found this knowledge. Thank you.
I merely got this video recommen ed and this old geezer (Mcgallon) is absolutely crazy.
Great vid btw
Ummm "the afa keep to themselves" not really, had M.N and members of the afa attack my Celtic group on fb because we openly welcome gays
Someone doesn't know their own mythology then.
For example when Loki turned himself into a female horse and gave birth to Sleipner, Odin's eight-legged horse. It doesn't seem very LGBT-unfriendly.
@@georgegrimnirsson2017 well, it's a social group and have a structure so... what's the problem? Of course it's different from having a real life group but it's still a way of studying and socialize.
Hey, just wanted to say don't worry about that troll trolling your group structure. They probably have no social life to speak of at all 😂
@@1987ashgriff Agreed.
@@aidanpaim805 Just was going to ask if you had joined Ocean's discord yet, I'd like to know more about this group.
I’m new and just learning, about Norse Paganism so finding a community I thought would be a very good idea.
I had started listening to the podcast (the wisdom of Odin), I was into the 8th podcast and each podcast something just felt weird/off like there was something more I couldn’t explain it. I also watched a few videos of his and felt the same way. Then the other day I jumped on RUclips and this video and another about him was the first few videos on my feed.
So that definitely wasn’t a coincidence. So thank y’all for sharing.
Hello there ,may i ask you ,are you still into norse religion?
@@ДжесикаИванова-б8ф yes
@@ДжесикаИванова-б8ф yes I am
thank you for speaking out on this, Ocean. eloquently put together. I've been so hesitant in my call to the Norse deities at times because I'm gay and honestly -- so many parts of the community scare me. But your videos are gems and give me hope and comfort I can find my own space. Thanks, man.
you should not be alloued to practice Asatru as gay. It is literally contradics the core principle of traditional family within Asatru religion. It is appauling.
@@IamAWildMan Luckily, I don't practice asatru.
@@IamAWildMan Maybe within the AFA, but there are plenty of other groups that don't followed that bigoted idea
News flash, if youre gay , youre not a pagan
@@optimalrefundable you practice judaism
Not going to lie, when I first stepped into this faith, I wasn't too fond of you because I had already been a pretty strong follower of Jacob's channel, having been inclined to watch his videos as I entered Heathenry. So, seeing this video a while back was somewhat dampening on my introduction to Heathenry, but as I have grown out of that honeymoon phase of things, my perspectives have changed and I find myself more like-minded to you than a lot of others I see and I have come to see Jacob or The Wisdom of Odin as what they really are. So, thank you.
Has a new Pagan and someone who has struggled with Christianity and also as someone who really is not white at all, I know I have mostly Hispanic heritage but I have never taken to it and I have honestly always loved the Pagan Outlook compared to Christianity. Have always been terrified of Gatekeepers so it's nice to see people open about sharing their own Heritage and beliefs
Well said! No Frith to the Folkists!
The very literature as recorded, or even quoted from the Christian clerics, is explicitly racist. If you didn't play Skyrim you would be advocating the burning of the Sagas.
We never asked for your frith liberal
@@runemasterhariwulfaz5267 Be my runemaster.
@@Arnaere always :)
Bigotry is objectionable however there is nothing wrong with expressing concern about how Europeans are losing their homelands
I really hope this religion doesn't go full on political. Dont want to sit with that crap
Yeah politics is bad. Never do anything political.
@@OceanKeltoi This is political, your stance is very left wing
@@fritjofvalerijs800 So being open to all peoples without hate or prejudice is only left wing? Are you saying that all the people on the right are bigots?
@@satyrsak no Fritjof Valērijs is saying that the video contains a left wing stance in the sense that the left wing often also uses the idea that not speaking about something is the same as embracing it and the video contains stances on LGBTQ+ community that are leftwing. At least thats the left wing stances i could could gather from the video.
I love you man I have never heard anyone speak out like this
I’ve only just started my journey and naturally found Woo.
Glad I found this video too so I can be more informed about him
No frith with folkists! Love it.
This is a pretty unsophisticated criticism, consisting mostly of canned Woke clichés and "None of my friends likes you"-style groupthink.
A small example, but claiming "We believe gender is not a social construct" is _transphobic_ is highly intellectually disingenuous, but sadly typical social media fodder. That perspective is simply the other side of the opinion scale on a controversial socio-biological claim. Are you thus claiming that only one opinion (conveniently, your own) is acceptable on this matter?
Indeed the whole (fill-in-the-blank)phobic construction has been widely debunked as a low-brow shame tactic, which functions essentially to bully a point through by claiming any who believe contrary are irrationally fearful (the literal definition of phobic). As in, "I think maintaining a healthy body weight is a good life decision." "Oh, so you're fat-phobic." "Oh okay, you're right, I don't believe that anymore, thanks."
Also, weird take calling the AFA _misogynistic_ (yet another typical sound-byte) when the post you are referencing on-screen literally says "We celebrate our feminine ladies." Doesn't sound much like hatred or prejudice toward women to me...
I could go on, but...well one more: have you not noticed how people like yourself seem so bothered that an organization celebrates white lives and indigenous white culture, yet oddly never seem to mind literal advertising campaigns, Netflix channels, Google themes etc. that proudly proclaim the "Beauty and power of black voices", raising up "Black perspectives, black lives, black stories" etc?
Don't reflexively dismiss that double-standard. Why is one more acceptable to you than the other? Especially when these groups like the AFA are advancing an indigenous religion that was virtually wiped out by the Christian church. Heathenism _is_ a marginalized indigenous religion. Lumping them in with mean ol' slave-owning Whitey on the basis of skin color alone, I imagine is the reason. Yet it wasn't Pagan Icelanders owning slaves; indeed, they were more-often captives and slaves themselves thanks to the Barbary Pirates and the Ottoman slavers.
Underrated comment.. A lot of Oceans followers don't have critical thinking.
@@BlackDoomsOpinion its because they are all counter-wank redditors who aren't actually interested in debunking folkish germanic polytheism without incurring the word "racism."
@@rapecel "Counter-wank redditors" lmao
@@BlackDoomsOpinion Sensational correctionism would probably better fit the "beliefs" that these supposed polytheists assume. It is a derivation of moral correction espoused by Christian theology, and is, in my opinion, utterly alien to germanic thought.
Oh look, a hug box
Makes sense now why he won't fully harshly condemn the AFA. What a bad look. WoO should NOT be posturing as a leader within the movement with his shitty behavior, let alone his lack of knowledge on the topics he tries to present. As said at the end in regards to the AFA, WoO is also free to stand alone.
they don't care about your woke cancel culture.
6:30 "...you can either placate them, or fight them. And as we've seen, there isn't another option"- Well, there _is_ another option, actually. You can ignore them. And make them irrelevant.
The sheer irony of saying people are "trying to divide our community" by denouncing an organization clearly set on ousting people from the community based on race, sexuality, and gender identity. WoO has made his side of the divide fairly clear.
The whole point of paganism is that it's exclusive. There is nothing wrong with exclusivity. Pagans are interested in reawakening the religion in their own people but they are not interested in preaching and spreading the belief system around the world to Africans, Asians and South Americans.
It is entirely based on race you fool...its a native european tradition! This isn't Christianity
@@zekun4741 you are correct sir
Thanks for this video and your channel. Queer recent ex-Christian here, and your consistency and sincerity help me hold more hope to find allies within Heathenry.
I've been a heathen for many years and just recently had WoO pop up on my instagram. I thought why not and tried to watch his videos, but I couldn't finish one. Something about them just rubbed me wrong, it reminded me of the feeling I would get when I would go to church, one man trying so hard to come off kind and full of knowledge but with something darker within. Well, it would seem the Gods were trying to warn me, as more and more I find is disturbing to say the least. Thank you for confirming what I was feeling, as an openly queer pagan, the AFA gtfo.
We are open and accepting heathens unless of course you disagree with our liberal talking points.
amen
Quit it with your belly aching.
Not sure how I'm just now finding your channel, but your work here is probably the best thing I've yet seen on all things Heathen. As a fellow traveler on the path of Odin, I really can't express to you how happy it makes me to see our shared beliefs explained and explored in such an in depth and researched manner. I especially applaud you for your lack of bullshit in addressing how Norse Paganism intersects with the material world, both politcally, socially and morally. Your head-on take downs of those who would pervert our faith to serve thier own outside agendas is something sorely needed, and it's a true pleasure to see it done so very well. May the gods smile on you and your continuing work.
Well, glad I found this channel first. You have helped me understand more as a new Norse pagan. Im glad to know about the AFA I will be very sure to avoid them. Seems as though they try to hide their hate with our faith. Thanks for spreading knowledge not hate.
Are white people not allowed to have anything for themselves? Everything we have has to be partially available to nonwhites? Seems racist and hateful.
@@piglice4585 Well explain why it has to be a white only religion. No other religion in the world restricts white people from religion. I see white in most religion if not all and they dont bitch. SO YOU DO YOU NEED A RELIGION ALL FOR YOURSELF?!?! Theres already group for that called the KKK.
@@piglice4585 Hail the gods and worry about your own standing with them... No better than an extreme liberal telling people how they should and shouldn't live. Live ya own fucking life and worry about yourself. Do you even attempt to actually worship these gods or do you use the gods to spread your racist hate. Not wise fella not wise.
@@CoachJeff-i6u Be it Christ or Odin. Both know what is in my heart and I know what is right. I would be a liar and unkind to tell you I felt the white race is not something worth preserving as unique from the rest of the world. And all of our creations and traditions with us my friend. Be it Christ or Odin. Both know I would be a coward if I wasn't willing to fight for this cause that I know is just. If you believed in "living ya own fucking life" you wouldn't be religious in any way shape or form and you wouldn't be correcting my belief.
@@piglice4585 welp okay then keep on ruining it for the rest of us. I'm pretty far from woke and don't support the movements but I for sure am not about to sit here and think I'm special over skin color. I'm white as hell myself but I'm not about to tell any black person or Spanish person or Asian person or any person they can't follow the faith and call them selves Asatru. I have a hard time believing your this his holy warrior of white. IM LEANING MORE TOWARDS DELUSIONAL WHITE BOY WHO ONLY CARES ABOUT THEMSELVES. It some how hurts you if a person of color worships Odin which I'm not sure I have even met one have you. You special white people ruin it for all us other white people who actual give sacrifice, time, devotion, effort. It seems your more interested in being superior than worshipping any gods. I'm tired of everyone thinking I'm racist because I worship Odin. It's because of you idiots they even feel that way. But it's okay. I'll keep informing people you don't have to be a racist dick to worship the Asier and you sure as hell don't have to be white... Like Ocean here.
I so appreciate this video. I've been a witch for years but am recently drawn to study norse paganism, and am loving your videos. I extra appreciate that you take a strong stand against all the racist bs from these people and clearly call it out. Thank you.
Honestly, sometimes I feel like people who don’t openly condemn groups like that are worse than the groups themselves. Because they normalize that bullshit and allow it to continue.
Exactly the issue
All it takes for the triumph of evil is for good folk to do nothing
@@Project_Algiz read up on McNallen's theories on heathenry and race and come back to me
yup. dr. king’s famous letter from birmingham jail heavily condemn the white moderate, even saying that the klan and brutal cops aren’t the “true” enemies-that the people who say that they’re “politically moderate/indifferent,” the ones who say they agree with your goal but can’t support your methods, are the enemies. silence is violence.
@@Project_Algiz Shame there doesn't seem to be a forthcoming response to this post. I'm kind of new to it all, but I'd like to know what the issue with implicit or even explicit in-group preference is. As far as I see it, from this video the AFA don't seem to advocate violence towards other people. If they do, I'd very much like to be informed.
Great video! Thank you so much for all of your work.
Ugh. This is the kind of stuff that made me avoid the Norse pantheon for so long. McNallen and the AFA use Nazi imagery. The fact that wasn’t a deal breaker is disappointing and disgusting.
They DON ‘T use Nazi imagery those images many are ancient indo European images that existed centuries before the Nazis .
The fact the Nazis hijacked those symbols does not make them specifically Nazi symbols get your facts right before being duped by this fraudulent bullshit.
Using the SPLC as guidance is a major fault line.
Glad I found this video before I followed the AFA group I was invited to. As a new heathen I am thankful for your work exposing these pitfalls.
I would think the wisdom of Odin would include the observation, "Getting your followers sick is a good way to lose followers" but I only have the wisdom of common sense :(
I came back to the Norse Paganism and when I left I don't think he had started his channel. When I came back I wanted to brush up on things better and he came up. While some of his videos were alright. Some just seemed off. I joined him on patron and that's when things really got fishy for me.
He didn't have an LGBTQ board on the discord. Instead it was a private chat room started by members. He reluctantly gave in and cited something about having a bad relationship with a female to male transgender man. I don't understand what that has to do with him not having an LGBTQ board up. I've since canceled my Patreon to him and unsubcribed from his youtube channel.
He just uses word salad to answer tough questions.
Just unsubbed after watching Ali's video
Question: why should there be a LGBTQ board?
@@Anonymous-sq6eo Because LGBTQ pagans exist and were part of the discord. Don't they deserve to have a place to post about being LGBTQ and Pagan.
@@TheNibNerd are LGBTQ doing things differently? If not, why is it necessary to have it?
As mixed race person I find this all facilitating. It should be added for fairness that his Holiness the Dali Lama said Europe is for Europeans and should help others get empowered and that those people should then leave, going back to their own home countries.
But then again, the Dali Lama, is about full equality and not partial equality for the world.
I don’t like hearing about fire and war implying to non Europeans in Europe and I also am clearly aware of some of my people stabbing White European for dating some of my peoples Middle Eastern “women”.
You can’t really have a healthy talk unless we talk about the whole picture.
As a mixed race person, I’m really about fairness as I don’t fit in with any group, it’s a easy and natural stance for me as much as one thrust upon me, by nearly everyone I’ve met, and especially minorities wondering how much color I have.
I would like to know, does this channel think his Holiness the Dali Lama is wrong?
A spiritual leader displaced from his home country and who roughly speaking wanders the world because of it?
One who’s been greatly financially supported by Whites, spiritually applauded by them too, including advocates for his Holiness and Tibetan suffrage due to CCP actions of Han racial expansionism.
When I herd DL advocate for native Europeans I thought it karma for good deeds done to him, and also bravery to side step the whole 20 years of evil Nazism.
But then again, 20 years doesn’t define anything about Europe, or at least it should not.
And yes, I am Jewish enough to have been killed for my blood line. I am fully aware but I am also aware of Po Pot, Stalin, Mao, Imperialist Japanese superiority and other psychos/systems that get the velvet glove treatment when really they are part of a genocidal whole against humanity.
I see no equal treatment or attention put on other groups. Why is that? It’s not because it’s stopped elsewhere. There are Japanese only streets in Japan, and even Thailand that Japan runs. Just as a easily searchable feeling, I mean fact, which ever word people believe is truthful.
Also, I don’t see Jacob as you have implied money hungry, if anything I would say you are, because those who point the finger from my life experience in that vein often are the ones guilty of it.
Either way, I think your argument is he is Pro European / White, but minus the shade that groups like Brown Power / La Raza sometimes put out from some rallies I’ve scene.
I think your against Woo because he may (I’m not sure 🤔) be behaving like other groups of minorities that are pro their own minority?
If so please due tell. I never reply to RUclips comments as their hard to manage but for this, I surely will as I have been a fan of Jacob for about 6 months or so and have scene nothing negative from him, but that of deep passion for his journey and the sharing of that warmly.
Jacob is clearly aware I am mixed race and has been warm and inviting, hearting comments of mine and responding.
You on the other hand idk if would get the same loving 🥰 treatment. Intellectuals often despise blue collar type people but you could surprise me 😉.
New guy here. Thank you for bringing this to us. I've been binging on WoO the past week. I wish I remember which one, but I recall a video where he was speaking at a school or somewhere. I'll try not to misquote. He said a black woman asked him if she could become pegan despite being African American. He says he told her something to the effect of, religion is something usually past down from our ancestors, but if she felt a calling to the gods, then who is he to say no and that she should go for it.
Perhaps Jacob is falling victim to the old "a friend to all is a friend to none." Either to make a buck or to not rock the boat.
Wisdom Of CryptoFolkism
The entire lore is blatantly racist.
@@Arnaere No.
@@satyrsak It's implicitly racist when it constantly glorifies blue eyes and red or golden hair. It's explicitly racist in stories like the one in the Heimskringla where a chief is born black and treated like he's cursed. His own mother does not love him. At the conclusion of the story he is turned white and his people love him again.
Thank you for taking this on, Ocean. From the bottom of my heart, you're doing a necessary and great thing, which few would be able to undertake. Especially with such clarity, eloquence, and integrity. (Terms which Jacob Spurlock could not define nor utilize if he tried)
Yo! Whats good bud!
No frith with folkists!!
The entire lore is racist. Like, supremacist.
Ah, people who believe that the All-Father is rather the Some-Father.
Yep sadly
@L7M What are you trying to imply? Be exact.
I am a new member into heathenry and I’m also European and I can say that thank the gods that I found this video cause I was watching the other guy’s videos for introductions into this faith. I think the main goal of Norse paganism or Asatru is that we accept everyone that wants to be part of it . These guys should completely abandon the faith cause they’re making excuses to be racist. This is about tolerance and respect not violence and racist behavior 😢
@@cavalierxii3036 Asatru isn't only for us Europeans, sure we have history and their culture written down in history but that doesn't mean that people from other countries outside of it cannot be believers. This is not OUR GODS this is EVERYONE'S GODS at least to people that want to follow asatru. I don't understand what's so confusing about my first message, literally there's no excuse to be racist just because you're pagan or wanting to its believers to be simply "white". That just nonsense... also have boundaries in what sense? I can understand like accepting members on their level of approach of the faith, but not using it as an excuse to say "we need to save the white race or the white race etc..." Still, think whatever you want to think but justifying racism just because you are calling yourself asatru is not having boundaries in fact you're overstepping them.
You are just appropriating the norse religion to make your own.
Just think of your own gods that are inclusive, don’t appropriate other cultures to your benefit.
Have you ever thought of what you deem as racist, may have been the norm in the past?
@@Anonymous-sq6eo I think they only distinguished between slaves and free men, not by the color of their skin. What are you saying is that due to your assumptions the asatru folk can be racist cause you people think that they were a white supremacy folk. But you have no proof about it whatsoever. Also what you're saying is that we also can support slavery because they were into slave trading back at the time... Cool let's kidnap children and woman in order to sell them...
My opinion is based on respect. Religions and culture can evolve the same happened with christianism, I'm not sure if they were racist (norse people) but behaviours as slave trading and racism are no longer permitted nowadays and you cant justify to be racist just because you claim to be asatru...
We have to treat everyone equally independent of what they believe and their colour of their skin, so if we going to make this work we cannot implement racism and slave trading back because they are against basic human rights. There's no excuse in those treatments, is like saying your grandfather was racist so you're racist cause he was one... they were different times with different goals in life and their way of living were pretty much different from ours. There's no excuse towards racist behaviour. And I feel truly sorry for the asatru folk to have racist people among their lines claiming that they're only racist cause of their religion. That's bullocks
BTW you're not living in 10th century might consider that as well...that even if we were racist, slave traders and conquerors at the time that doesn't mean we're declaring war in other European countries because we want their money and riches nowadays. If you want to believe in other religions you have to believe with the rules and laws of every country also human rights in mind. You can't kill people just because they're black or white... unless you want to go to prison.
"We should accept everyone" and then right after that "these guys should completely abandon the faith." Very dogmatic and Christian like imo. Also, while anyone can choose to follow Asatru it's important to point out that it was never a global religion like Christianity or Islam. It was very focused on ancestors and tribe. From a modern pov the Norse would probably be viewed as "racist"
@@MrFredstt yeah but you should have into consideration the times that we're living in, just because they were into racism back in the early centuries doesn't mean that we have to be, that's just another excuse to cause harm and denigrate people depending on their beliefs or culture. As to abandon the faith I said it because as I mentioned before there are no excuse towards questionable behaviour, if they're going to use religion in order to do that well, they might as well consider to use something else because not everyone is like that. Besides to the ancestor argument it was like that back then, they had their faith already during a long time ago and it was passed from fathers to sons. Right now, its completely different cause what we're doing is reconstructing it from the little extracts we have from them, so we cannot expect to believe or put it in practical in the same way, because our background and laws are different apart and surely we're missing info. We're different that we were centuries ago and just saying things like just because in the 9th century they were racist and focused on ancestors we should be exactly that, when we have a way modern society and rights. I understand the historical background but being racist saying things like "they were racist at the time" "they were focused on ancestors" its just another excuse to be one. And definitely they don't need religion to be one.
As a new pagan:
Someone speaking in such vague and ambiguous terminology as the fundamentalist group i was raised in, there are red flags.
Someone speaking as a leader or authority on information or insight while looking being so new, also a huge red flag.
Requiring some kind of contribution to be a part of a religious community, huge red flag.
No. So much no. So many red flags. I would practice my faith by instinct before I listened to a breath from him.
I really agree with your point about requiring (monetary) contribution to be part of the community. It frankly feels like the start of a cult, and people should be very, VERY careful about that kind of thing. From an outsiders perspective, WoO is setting himself up as a figurehead
@@TheLizander Yes because people who dont agree with YOUR worldview (or others) are cultists. Got it!
@@alfredharrison597 lmao, you could interpret what I said that way, I suppose. That just kind of shows how defensive you’re feeling though. Gate keeping philosophy or religion through financial means instantly pollutes the movement. Furthermore, he’s creating an echo chamber that selects for people who are willing to pay him money.. That’s about as bad as the televangelists who sell tap water through the TV.
WoO is in a more complicated position than other personality or even philosophy based RUclips channels. Heathens have generally rejected mainstream religion & everything that goes along with it. Why is he trying to commercialize information and community, like the christians have with their faith? Until WoO proves that the money donated is going to the construction of his hall, and not his own living expenses, I’ll maintain my position.
@@TheLizander So because I throw shade BACK AT YOU im being "defensive"? How about I say all of you are attacking and being antagonistic wanting to call out this guy for not doing something you want him to do. He doesnt owe any goddamn one of you an excuse about anything, yet you all act like he does. YOU ALL are being divisive, YOU ALL are being toxic, YOU ALL are attacking this individual and yet he has not said ONE FUCKING WORD ABOUT ANY OF YOU. Before you throw shade on someone for not living up to you expectations, LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR FOR ONCE.
I found WoO during the beginning of the covid lockdown. I watch quite a bit of his videos and followed him on IG. My lockdown only lasted a short time and watching RUclips fell off the importance list. I recently started back up and WOW!!! I clearly missed a lot!! I had no idea! But like another commentator said, the larger his community has grown, the creepier the vibes get
9:55 as a German citizen I can only say this is utter nonsense, although there are a lot of other Germans (10%-15%) who would agree with him.
That’s closer to the truth than you might think. Germans are having less babies, and most of the immigrants are Turks and Arabs, who do have big families.
Simple math, like it or not. I am not saying we should kick them out or discriminate against them, but that does not change the fact that he is more right than wrong.
@@Anonymous-sq6eo quick question: how do you define "German" - and would you say the melanin content of your skin says anything about how German you are? (edit: not trying to put words in your mouth - but at least in the context of the video it seems that German (or European for that matter) equals white.)
That aside. Germans having less babies (as in: the birthrate dropped to about 1.5) is true. most of the immigrants being Turks or Arabs is, however, wrong. Most of the immigrants are Romanians, followed by Poles, Bulgarians, Italians, Kroatians and then it's perople from Syria and Turkey. (Germans re-immigrating to Germany excluded). (quick look at the national statistics, 2019).
Now, it is a question / a point of discussion / a claim that pops up every so often and while I would intuitively agree with hamanime 'well, I have a gut feeling' isn't an argument. So allow me to think out loud for a moment as I try to find a better reply.
Only looking at the immigration (as opposed to the saldo; immigrants from an area minus emigrants to that area) (2020): of 1.6-ish million about 1.2m are from Europe (of which about 40k are from Turkey and about 20k from Russia). Now, not axactly sure who 'the Turks' are - if it's just Turkey or also other nations in that area. So I'll leave that open. As for 'the Arabs' I suppose you mean 'the Arab world' adding the immigration numbers from those 22 states we arrive at ~125k (with the most coming from Syria and Iraq) and it includes those whose nationality is unclear, unknown or who don't have one (total of ~10k). Afaik immigration is also not tied to acquiring the German nationality - the only ones not included are those who are 'waiting on their status' as what I think is now called a "regular migrant" (aka someone showing up at the immigration office with all the needed documents and is waiting to be entered in the 'residence registry' - no idea if that's how it's actually called. But you have to tell the state where your place of residence in Germany is.) - those registered as refugees / applying for the status as a refugee seem to be counted as formally their residence in Germany is whatever facility they stay at.
Granted, the German-wide average of mothers-of-not-German-nationality is ~25% (2019) but given the above numbers I would assume the majority of those 25% are from other European countries.
www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migration/_node.html
www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Bevoelkerung/Wanderungen/Publikationen/Downloads-Wanderungen/wanderungen-2010120187004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile (only German though)
@@Anakianaj Generically European, German...stop the bullshit. Europeans are being bullied with socialists opening the gates of false prosperity to wild illegals who could care less about our culture. It's only to destroy our sovereignty
@@Fatelovesirony960 look, I'm open to have a discussion. but if you make an argument, please support it with facts and evidence from credible sources. My line of thinking is that generally people tend to be biased in some way and looking at the numbers can put things into perspective. If of the over a million and a half people that immigrate to Germany (which includes those whose status is so far unclear afaik) only a faction are not from the OECD countries (as in their nationality) then there's really not much else to say about it. Except you have some information that I don't have and would be kind enough to share your sources with me?
I am so glad I found this so early 😭 I've recently converted and have been taking notes, and I was using him as a guide since I believed he was experienced
For those that have a fervent belief that Heathenry is, in fact, a race based religion and you call yourself Folkish/Völkish. You must understand that Völkish, or Folkish, is not Heathenry.
The practice of Norse Paganism has existed far before beliefs like Folkish. Folkish was, and is, a set of ideologies that was made to give Germany a sense of national identity. This national identity was based in antisemitism, racial superiorty and agrarianism. Völkish writers like Guido von List and Richard Wagner took Germanic and Norse beliefs and twisted them to fit their ideologies. Völkish was in part the basis for the NSDAPs ideologies.
No matter what the AFA says Völkish is not Heathenry. You are not a true pagan if you follow the AFA. Germanic beliefs are cultural in nature, Völkish is not. If you are Völkish, just know that you are not and never will be a pagan, when part of your beliefs draws inspiration from Christianity. You are just co-opting symbols and beliefs to push your belief in race based supremacy. You are not a practitioner of Heathenry. You are not a pagan. You are only a racist.
You are not a true pagan when your beliefs are based on appropriated and distorted historical and religious symbols, all for the purpose of politics. Your beliefs are not based in what we know our ancestors believed, your beliefs are, again, based on distortions of ancestural heritage. If you wish to believe in an ahistorical distortion of Paganism, you are free to do so, but know that your version is not and never will be the true form of Paganism.
Well damn.. He was one of the first heathens I found on YT... Guess I'll be putting some distance from him now
Thank you for sharing this information, I am new to Norse paganism and I’m lgbtq. So I’m trying to find my place here, this helps a ton.
Look, some pagans are pro LGBTQ while some are anti LGBTQ
Welcome! I'm not new but I'm part lgbtq as well. Glad to see more Lgbtqia+ coming into heathenry, you don't stand alone in this!
@@dapperspaghettimonster also there was this capitol rioter that is heathen I think and hes a republican. Also the Nazis were very supportive of paganism since they liked their roots.
@@dapperspaghettimonster thank you so much !
@@Hazelthenerd please don't ignore my comment you ignorant
Thank you so much for this video. I am a norse pagan and live in Spain, because of the language I didn't know this until now. As a LGTB person I thank you deeply for this response and for taking the time and work for open our eyes about WoO
Hi Maria. Yo nací en Puerto Rico, mi familia es de España y Portugal. I’m looking for more information on the pagan traditions of Iberia. Do you have any books or channels you could recommend?
Vikings never accepted lgtbq
@@Cretan_Wolf Reread history, little folkist 😁
So sick of this self hate be proud of yourself and your people
All blood is red.