there is a chance that if you slam your fits into the table, all the atoms of the table and your hand will miss each other and your hand will phase through the table, so yeah!
I am a German, living in America. I was used to bringing a gift to a visit, and expected a gift in return when they visit me. No such luck here in the US. I was raised that way - you give something, you get something in return... here, they look at you and say "oh you shouldn't have" and that's it... yeah. I never complained because it would be misunderstood.
Ignore the jackass above me. People in the US tend not to be sociable in that way. Honestly, it feels like its gotten colder in the last decade or so. You're making this country better by your presence and attempts to foster friendships.
This isn't necessarily true and I'm sorry you have experienced a lack of hospitality! For me, we rarely visited other people's homes, so it's not a habit I developed growing up. But I do try to remember to bring a gift now, as an adult. Even if it's just simple, like cut flowers, plenty of people in America DO bring gifts! You should explain to your friends that this is something you have always done and invite your friends to pick up the habit! It isn't an odd concept here, so it would be fun to start the tradition among your friends group!
As an atheist (not not an antitheist) who has never felt drawn to the idea of an all-powerful, all-loving father of monotheism, the idea of gods being like cats - that they don't NEED us, and if ignored will simply find someone else, but choose to be with us and sometimes place a finger on the scales of fate, in exchange for which we feel the warmth of their companionship even if they aren't always actively helpful - is a far more appealing one, and feels more honest to the world we live in than the Abrahamic god who runs headlong into the Problem of Evil. Even if I don't believe, no matter how much I wish I did, I find that idea extremely endearing.
Another thing to note is that since the gods have no need for material offerings, you can offer your time. Time is valuable because time is something you can not get back. Spend some time researching and learning about the gods, or even just talking to the gods either verbally or mentally. You can talk to a god like you would talk to a close friend, this can help foster a closer relationship. You can also spend your time working to improve the reputation of Paganism and educating those who are willing to listen. Many of the gods have been slandered and doing your part to help repair their reputation would be a great service that they can actually benefit from.
To me this all seems like myths people cling to because they hate the god of the monotheists so as an act of rebellion they follow the pagan gods which there seems to be a lot of historical revisionism for like for instance marvel making them out ot be lovey dovey being in reality they violent war mongers not to say any of this exists they are all useless superstition but if 1 was to belive in a deity it should be 1 that isn't like us fallible humans for why worship corruption lest you become corrupt .
Got it. So if I want to maximize my time on Earth I shouldn't worship any gods. Is there an opposite of worshiping gods? Can I cause them harm? That sounds like something I'd be interested in. I've got some bones to pick with them.
I convinced someone who freshly converted to Christianity that Binsfeld's Seven Princes are old gods and that working with them can help heal spiritual wounds. Beëlzebub, for example, is more than just a Lord of Gluttony.
Okay I know that most people won’t believe me, my own family doesn’t but here it goes. I did a ritual reaching out to Odin one night last month, Gave a gift of my favourite Whiskey and called out. Asking for a sign that He was there, as I had doubt this would work since my Prayers and calls out to the Christian God had always been met with utter silence. As I was walking away I swear on my life that I heard a mans voice, telling me to not be anxious, that I had reached out and he had heard. I did laps around that Entire park probably looking like an absolute lunatic, looking for some dick hiding behind a tree who overheard me and thought he’d pull my leg. I didn’t find anyone, I’ve been more and more fascinated with the Old faiths ever since. It’s one of the most incredible things I’ve ever experienced.
I believe you. Odin stood in the door way of my room and called to me by name. Nothing else. Just my name. “Dylan”, and then he turned and walked down the hall to the front door and…”dispersed”. Months before I had gotten a random draw tattoo of a skull with wings from a tattoo parlor “gimbal” machine. I’ve been making mead for a long time and have always been really good at brewing(not sure if that matters but I feel it ties in to my faith as I gift a fourth of each gallon I brew [since Odin’s calling]). I specifically devote my daily faith to Thor the Stormbringer as I’ve always been called to lightening thunder and storms since I can remember I’d sit in the rain or watch from the porch. I’ve always stood up for the innocent and weak and I’ve always put honesty and honor before self gain. Today I worked from 4am to 6pm and still had to drive 20 minutes to the farm to water the garden yet a storm rolled in as soon as I was going to leave after eating to go water. My faith grows evermore each day.
I believe you. The only one time i saw him after a blot, just in my mind and just for a second, He told me "ok, if you want to be one of ours, you can be". I could not have asked for more.
@@picklep9812 “You don’t believe in me so I’m not going to help you believe.” That doesn’t make sense, I would’ve believed if he gave me a reason to. But he didn’t, so I found something better.
He showed me the Algiz rune before I even knew what one was...on a Wednesday no less. I needed that more than anything at that point in my life. A reminder: I was safe, my ancestors were always behind me, and that I was a man. Hail Odin, the All Father: seeker of knowledge, discoverer of hidden truths, the hanging God, and bringer of order and the breath of life HAILS ODIN 🤟
I honestly love the cat analogy. It sums up the "why" part of the question really well. I still struggle with feeling like offerings are for things I want (because frankly there are things I would love to see happen in my life) but I chalk it up to hopefulness of gifts returned is not an expectation.
Despite three years of worship, I'm still in the process of breaking my habit of simply asking the gods for something as if I was praying to the Abrahamic Gods. I'm getting better, but my lack of ability to give offerings and gifts of my own due to my situation in life right now is straining that. Great video as always though, your stuff is always so well thought out and put together.
The cat analogy is perfect and truly describes the friendliness that occurs with reciprocity. Additionally that final pun made my terrible day a lot better, thank you. Calcifer demands Tuna with a side of Frith xD
The gods wish to see us become the best possible versions of ourselves. So another thing you can do to show your appreciation is to work on self-improvement and bettering your self. To work off of the cat analogy, if you cat is healthy and happy, then that makes you happy.
@@seifer447 Here when people get sick they still consumer a special cat stew using local feral cats which are considered pests and this makes for a happy cure. I dont want to try it but my Akita cross also is very happy and healthy eating 2 to 3 cats as a weekly staple feral or domestic she is not choosy. Nature is wonderful.
Scuse me, I did not come here to be emotionally manipulated into doing my self care by this reminder that the gods I love actually might be happy that *I* am happy and healthy
On the note of cats, I had been thinking about that comparison when my cat Festus did something even more analogous. Because we have several cats, we have cat balls and toys all over the house. Well, my Festus at one point started bringing them to me from time to time, giving me a cat ball. Do I have literally any use for this? Nope, not in the slightest. But anytime I hear him come down the stairs, yelling up a storm with a ball in his mouth, like Ocean said, it doesn't matter what mood I was in, I love it. Either way, awesome video as always :)
This is an extremely informative and thoughtful video. My offerings are usually, for example, ale poured in my garden when making offering to Freyr and Freyja. Or leaving bread or other food in my back yard. When and if animals eat the food, I recognize that as the gods accepting my offering.
During ritual there are times when I feel tempted to explicitly ask the Gods for particular gifts, especially when my need is high enough or if there is something stressing me out in life. I catch myself before doing this because I know this isn't how the gifting cycle works, and because it feels a little disrespectful to the Gods I'm reaching out to. Using the cat analogy, sometimes I feel like I'm the cat meowing angrily for an extra plate of food rather than the cat purring with contentment. The words you described when closing out a ritual resonate with me, because when I simply thank the Gods for what has already been given, and gift them in return, I feel more at peace and happier for it. And if the Gods decide to gift again, thats a bonus. Great video!
For me, offerings always come from a space of gratitude. They're always in thanks for gifts already received from the gods. Also, in practicing the gifting cycle, I saw that there isn't enough food in the world to thank the gods for everything they do (and it felt a bit wasteful), so I asked their direction. I saw a sign later that said "What you are is God's gift to you. What you make of yourself is your gift to God". So actions offered to the gods are just as potent an offering as food or anything else. There's no greater thing you could offer than the contents of your life, right? Tonight I'm offering Frigg incense and herbal tea to make the home a calm place to rest in thanks for her hard work today.
The cat purr is a good point. But I also like the toasting a friend for an achievement. I’ve had questions on how this all works and why. Offerings are like a toast to the gods; a way to show the respect and admiration you have for them. You’ve opened my eyes today, Ocean, and I hope this is something that I get to explore a little more.
I try to be thoughtful with my gifts, just like I would be to fellow humans. Sure often times it is just alcohol or even water for my ship-fountain to Njordr on my altar, but sometimes I genuinely feel somehow that some special gifts are really appreciated.
Sometimes in my hectic day to day I try to make small offerings even if it's a shot of whiskey on the altar or last night's offering was a piece of flat bread I made. As someone who farms I not only give some of my harvest but I give me labor of the land and the work I do with my hands as an offering. Not sure if it's the right way but I feel it is appreciated
This might be my favorite video, love the concept of frith and reciprocity. Not sure if this counts as reciprocity but I’d like to think a mom looking out for another mom would please Frigg. The formula shortage is very real in my area and the sister of one of my good friends has had serious trouble getting a very specific formula for her baby boy. She recently posted on FB, asking local friends to keep an eye out for the formula she needs and that she’d reimburse anyone who could find any. I went to the store with my toddler today and saw 6 cans of the formula on the shelf. I took a picture to confirm it was the right one, she said it was and I bought a can, told her to let me know when she needs it. No babies going hungry on my watch.
I hear the Rush song, "Resist," here: You can surrender without a prayer, but never really pray without surrender. A gift is something given up. A bargain is an exchange. I do have to say, though, that's it's hard for me to think of Frith as anything but the Sun.
I've started to think of it like this: suppose I had a friend who was much, much wealthier than I. If that friend hosted a dinner party and invited me, I would still want to bring some chocolates, or a bottle of wine, or a cake, flowers... They can definitely afford better versions of all of these things, and the gift doesn't have a noticeable impact on their situation, but it's still a nice gesture that shows that I care and value them and their friendship. If they are a good friend, they will appreciate the gesture
This was a wonderful, thoughtful video for those of us new to deity work. Thank you. Couple of points make me wanna journal around about my own thoughts on things.
Ocean, your way of expressing your thoughts on the relationship between humans and the gods, is so well done that I almost wish I could believe in the existence of the gods….
That's fine, one doesn't need to believe in tangible gods. Frith is separate from that. Offering to gods that don't exist is beneficial in and of itself.
so its like when my cat brings gifts to me because it thinks i cant hunt. i dont need it but its nice to know that it cares for me and the purring is very similar. at least thats the way i understand. we give gifts that they dont need but it is nice to know that we care?
I donate to charity as a form of offering. I tend to do beer though, sometimes herbs. Mostly I'll just feel like pouring some beer on the altar, in a cup of course. I do in thanks as well when something cool happens, if you will. As a witch though, I use one altar for all "my" gods, statues, and for magickal work. I suppose in that way I ask for specific things and sometimes in a traditional way make offerings for specific things. This has me thinking to, when I get the space for it, have a diety altar and a magickal altar. Thanks, and thanks for another great video 😃.
I think it more "the thought that counts" in offerings to gods.Its the energy behind it,the intentions , rather than the bread appearing in another realm.The effects of thought cannot be underestimated on many levels.As we know energy is neither created or destroyed ,but only transformed ,and I believe the same for the energy of thoughts.
I am new to being a Heathen, I came from a Catholic family background and I fell out of it due to various issues with Christianity personally. I have always been drawn to Norse Polytheism and something called me to take the dive. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around offerings and worshipping the Old Gods. This and various other videos tou have made has helped me out a lot. Thank you for your help in guiding path.
Great video 10 /10 wery informative video. in ancient finland, hunters usually left a piece of their prey as a gift to Tapio the god of forests and hunting, including his wife Mielikki (the goddess of hunting luck)
One thing needs to be said that isn’t here. Back in the day most of your daily worship would be to family ancestors/spirits/hearth. Offerings to the gods were usually large communal events where substantial offerings are made usually with a priest operating the procedure and lots of ritual/processions. A pagan sitting in their living room meditating with a snickers to Odin is a very modern practice. Not necessarily bad just not as sacred for my taste.
Smokers know these little rules :D when I used to smoke (luckily I quit 4 years ago) there was sometimes a times of need and you borrowed one from a colleague, a day later he is in the same need and you freely give one back. Now there was always that guy (or girl) who couldn't understand it and went "oh I'll give you 12cent for that on cigarette" like wtf no... That's not how it works :D today me, tomorrow you, it's giving and receiving without burdens
Talking about the gifting cycle and frith to mind my work as a zookeeper, especially with the troop of Japanese macaques (monkeys). Relationship building is incredibly helpful and rewarding, and gifts don't always come in the form of physical objects like food or enrichment toys, but also with positive social interactions, like initiating and reciprocating lip smacking (a friendly behavior - usually - it can vary a little by context). By building up frith as a bond of trust with monkeys, we can accomplish things like veterinary and husbandry behaviors cooperatively - benefitting all involved. That's how I use these concepts frequently in my life. I also engage in the gifting cycle with friends and certain gods. And actually this reminded me I want to make an offering before my family and I go on vacation!
I wanted to say thanks for these video. They really help with perspective. Iv been solo in my worship for a long time now. And it's a great help not having to navigate every single detail myself
This, as usual, was very succinct and well put together. As others have said, the cat analogy was purr-ticularly well said. It's like... Does Thor need this oak leaf I found on the ground, or the piece of picture jasper? Loki the caramel apple sucker, small pile of glitter, or roll of washi tape? Of course not. I freely gave them because I thought they would appreciate such things. Such is the nature of reciprocity
Thank you for making this video. I am still learning about my faith in God's and how I can practice in my daily life. This was so helpful to understand offerings and why it's valuable, purr for my gratitude
I'm fond of the idea of self-serving gifts. For example, if you sacrifice time and energy to clean and tidy your abode, perhaps in the name of the ancient Greek goddess Hygieia, then the relationship is direct: you get a cleaner and tidier abode.
My understanding of offerings is that at one time in ancient antiquity the “gods” were flesh and blood and required sustenance. Enlil was hungry and enticed by the smell of roasting meat from the survivors of the flood and thus forgave humanity in the Sumerian myth. The difference was that “they” had technology we did not. It’s all a global cargo cult in a sense.
Your videos are always so very articulated, eloquent and insightful. Could you be so kind as to do a video on being a polytheist in a science-focused/modern world where skepticism runs rampant? I am having doubts :(
Greetings from Alberta! Just as we are talking about gits to & from the Gods, the 1st large waves of migrating Sand Hill Cranes is flying. A sure sign of Spring in this neck of the woods. Blessings to you all.
Thanks, Ocean! I know I received a gift this week and as someone new to the faith, I didn't know how to express my gratitude. My "Latent Christianity" has been barging in with signs of glee and daily gratitude, but I'm watching your series on prayers and offerings to give proper thanks as soon as I have the full picture of what to do and how to do it.
One ot the principle issues of this matter is the concept of "worship" . Modern people's concept of worship is largely shaped by the Abrahamic religions and is submissive and placatory by nature . I'm not convinced that's how ancient pagans saw their relationship with the Gods . I think that relationship was seen as more reciprocal and one of mutual benefit than as a master/servant model . In very animistic traditions it is certainly one of reciprocity.
The beginning part about reciprocity reminds me very much of gift economies that existed among stateless people like the germanic tribes. The whole conversation at the beginning reminded me of "Debt: The First Five Thousand Years" by David Graeber
Wonderful segment....I love that final bit, I hope you don't mind me using that closing now. Thanks for the enlightenment once again. Your puns are silly and awesome!
Having an existential crisis of the soul lately tbh. Death has suddenly become very very scary to me. Thank you for your videos. They can’t balance the chemicals in my brain, or prove that I will still be me after I die, but they are comforting.
I do my rituals outside, so I'll leave an offering of beer and sweets outside too. In a few days the food is gone, clearly the gods must have taken them, totally not wild animals.
I'm joking, but only kinda. I believe animals are closer to the gods than we are, or are representatives of the gods. In mediation I once had a profound thought, what makes us more like the gods is what separates us most from the gods. As in our free will and intelligence
I do this prayer often sometimes I offer a piece of myself ( a lok of my hair to show I give myself to them other times it's tobacco as I like to smoke and other times I give something with great sentimental value like my father's necklaces and other times I give them a portion of the meal I have made for dinner )
Find a way or make one is a phrase I've made my own in a lot of ways, and hearing you say it at the end of this video was very comforting to me. Right place, right time. Hail!
This is a great discussion that should be had among polytheists. I would put forth that it’s not even a debate, for who can know the many names of the gods? Having met two gods has only furthered in me the belief that it is hard to know anything solidly. One presented as a Celtic masculine deity who showed me that he is known across cultures with many faces. The other was feminine and strictly presented as Egyptian. I agree that it is respectful to approach all as individuals unless they personally reveal to you their aspects or alternate names. I enjoyed your videos immensely as idea libraries and now also as a place to spout testimony of sorts in the comments. Thank you and many blessings!
I’ve been trying (and failing) to get into various forms of pagan worship for a while now, this process was always difficult for me to understand. Thank you for explaining it so well.
6:18 It could also be that the gods get busy. Not that you dont have their attention, or favor, but that they just have more pressing matters in the current moment. The few times I've felt lonely in the past years, it has felt more like that. That the gods are doing something else that matters. Then they return, and we pick back up from where we were before. It is difficult to articulate, and it's already difficult for people to understand each other anyway. So, skål! 🍻
This video cleared up a lot of questions for me as an outsider. It also raised some new ones. Do the gods acknowledge or aid people who are not engaged in reciprocity with them? If I can successfully buy a house and get food and return from a dangerous trip without ever acknowledging the gods, are they just indifferent to my indifference? Do they help out everyone regardless of frith, but have a preference for the ones that they do have frith with? If I believed in the gods but didn't feel compelled to offer them my thanks, would that change anything? I get the idea of showing gratitude. It just seems to me that if that gratitude makes no discerable difference for either yourself or the gods as far as you can tell, then it's pointless. I could be missing something here 🤷🏾
''A prayer of the Athenians - ''Rain, dear Zeus. Make it rain upon the plains and fields of Athens''. Prayer should be offered this simply, or not at all''. From the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, c. 160-180 CE. 🦁 ☀️ 🐝 ⚡ 🦅 ⚡ 🐝 ☀️ 🦁
Well done ocean. 👏 you made the second worst day I have had a million time better. It's been a hard few days for me with my depression i have been missing my son that I haven't seen since October. (Mom won't talk to me). This made me take a step back. Thank u
This is a great video which explains reciprocity in a way that is not only applicable to the gods, but to human relationships, and even to workplace culture: what is the difference between “incentives” to illicit an action, and a genuine show of appreciation from your boss?
I was thinking of how cats seem to offer us dead mice as a good analogy. Although I have read recently that it's more like a warning to others, as we used to understand it, that it was a gift from the cat fits nicely here. We don't want or need a dead rat, but we appreciate the gesture.
I see it like this: the blessings of the Gods are often material so a good portion of your worship should be material offerings. That need not be the only thing you do but I wouldn't recommend not giving something. Might be just my own experiences but I tend to have had a better feeling of connection giving offerings than just doing things. I've had absolutely amazing experiences doing both and that I think that shows how important both things are good and complementary
Ah yes the gift freely given is of higher value than the gift given in hopes of a greater gift in return. "The bread of life cast on the water will return three fold" Yet I am reminded of another " Life or the Gods/Goddesses give you what you need not what you want. These are sometimes frustrating to the individual. Till we meet again, may your dreams become reality.
The Hamingja Podcast episode 5 goes deeper into reciprocity, the gift giving cycle and the origins of it - the Proto-Indo-European ghosti principle; being the guest and the host at the same time.
"Did a bread appear in the realm of the gods? Probably not."
*So there is a chance then...*
Correct
ha yep there always is a chance
there is a chance that if you slam your fits into the table, all the atoms of the table and your hand will miss each other and your hand will phase through the table, so yeah!
@@OceanKeltoi Divine sandwich
I am a German, living in America. I was used to bringing a gift to a visit, and expected a gift in return when they visit me. No such luck here in the US. I was raised that way - you give something, you get something in return... here, they look at you and say "oh you shouldn't have" and that's it... yeah. I never complained because it would be misunderstood.
Your gift is we let you live here
Ignore the jackass above me. People in the US tend not to be sociable in that way. Honestly, it feels like its gotten colder in the last decade or so. You're making this country better by your presence and attempts to foster friendships.
This isn't necessarily true and I'm sorry you have experienced a lack of hospitality! For me, we rarely visited other people's homes, so it's not a habit I developed growing up. But I do try to remember to bring a gift now, as an adult. Even if it's just simple, like cut flowers, plenty of people in America DO bring gifts!
You should explain to your friends that this is something you have always done and invite your friends to pick up the habit! It isn't an odd concept here, so it would be fun to start the tradition among your friends group!
@@seifer447 It hasnt gotten colder people just dont like you...
@@Levestire I guess this whole concept went right over your head
I am absolutely going to call any worship I do from now on as "purring for the gods"
As an atheist (not not an antitheist) who has never felt drawn to the idea of an all-powerful, all-loving father of monotheism, the idea of gods being like cats - that they don't NEED us, and if ignored will simply find someone else, but choose to be with us and sometimes place a finger on the scales of fate, in exchange for which we feel the warmth of their companionship even if they aren't always actively helpful - is a far more appealing one, and feels more honest to the world we live in than the Abrahamic god who runs headlong into the Problem of Evil. Even if I don't believe, no matter how much I wish I did, I find that idea extremely endearing.
Another thing to note is that since the gods have no need for material offerings, you can offer your time. Time is valuable because time is something you can not get back.
Spend some time researching and learning about the gods, or even just talking to the gods either verbally or mentally. You can talk to a god like you would talk to a close friend, this can help foster a closer relationship.
You can also spend your time working to improve the reputation of Paganism and educating those who are willing to listen. Many of the gods have been slandered and doing your part to help repair their reputation would be a great service that they can actually benefit from.
This is exactly my practice. Study (seeking wisdom) for Odin, baking (building/caring for my hearth and family) for Frigg, etc.
To me this all seems like myths people cling to because they hate the god of the monotheists so as an act of rebellion they follow the pagan gods which there seems to be a lot of historical revisionism for like for instance marvel making them out ot be lovey dovey being in reality they violent war mongers not to say any of this exists they are all useless superstition but if 1 was to belive in a deity it should be 1 that isn't like us fallible humans for why worship corruption lest you become corrupt .
Got it. So if I want to maximize my time on Earth I shouldn't worship any gods. Is there an opposite of worshiping gods? Can I cause them harm? That sounds like something I'd be interested in. I've got some bones to pick with them.
I convinced someone who freshly converted to Christianity that Binsfeld's Seven Princes are old gods and that working with them can help heal spiritual wounds. Beëlzebub, for example, is more than just a Lord of Gluttony.
@@AlastorTheNPDemon I'm not sure this is the win you think it is...
Okay I know that most people won’t believe me, my own family doesn’t but here it goes.
I did a ritual reaching out to Odin one night last month, Gave a gift of my favourite Whiskey and called out. Asking for a sign that He was there, as I had doubt this would work since my Prayers and calls out to the Christian God had always been met with utter silence.
As I was walking away I swear on my life that I heard a mans voice, telling me to not be anxious, that I had reached out and he had heard.
I did laps around that Entire park probably looking like an absolute lunatic, looking for some dick hiding behind a tree who overheard me and thought he’d pull my leg. I didn’t find anyone, I’ve been more and more fascinated with the Old faiths ever since.
It’s one of the most incredible things I’ve ever experienced.
I believe you.
Odin stood in the door way of my room and called to me by name. Nothing else. Just my name. “Dylan”, and then he turned and walked down the hall to the front door and…”dispersed”.
Months before I had gotten a random draw tattoo of a skull with wings from a tattoo parlor “gimbal” machine. I’ve been making mead for a long time and have always been really good at brewing(not sure if that matters but I feel it ties in to my faith as I gift a fourth of each gallon I brew [since Odin’s calling]).
I specifically devote my daily faith to Thor the Stormbringer as I’ve always been called to lightening thunder and storms since I can remember I’d sit in the rain or watch from the porch. I’ve always stood up for the innocent and weak and I’ve always put honesty and honor before self gain. Today I worked from 4am to 6pm and still had to drive 20 minutes to the farm to water the garden yet a storm rolled in as soon as I was going to leave after eating to go water. My faith grows evermore each day.
I believe you. The only one time i saw him after a blot, just in my mind and just for a second, He told me "ok, if you want to be one of ours, you can be". I could not have asked for more.
Maybe god doesn’t show up because you refuse to see/believe
@@picklep9812 “You don’t believe in me so I’m not going to help you believe.”
That doesn’t make sense, I would’ve believed if he gave me a reason to. But he didn’t, so I found something better.
He showed me the Algiz rune before I even knew what one was...on a Wednesday no less. I needed that more than anything at that point in my life. A reminder: I was safe, my ancestors were always behind me, and that I was a man. Hail Odin, the All Father: seeker of knowledge, discoverer of hidden truths, the hanging God, and bringer of order and the breath of life HAILS ODIN 🤟
I honestly love the cat analogy. It sums up the "why" part of the question really well. I still struggle with feeling like offerings are for things I want (because frankly there are things I would love to see happen in my life) but I chalk it up to hopefulness of gifts returned is not an expectation.
I very much agree
Despite three years of worship, I'm still in the process of breaking my habit of simply asking the gods for something as if I was praying to the Abrahamic Gods. I'm getting better, but my lack of ability to give offerings and gifts of my own due to my situation in life right now is straining that. Great video as always though, your stuff is always so well thought out and put together.
The cat analogy is perfect and truly describes the friendliness that occurs with reciprocity. Additionally that final pun made my terrible day a lot better, thank you.
Calcifer demands Tuna with a side of Frith xD
The gods wish to see us become the best possible versions of ourselves. So another thing you can do to show your appreciation is to work on self-improvement and bettering your self. To work off of the cat analogy, if you cat is healthy and happy, then that makes you happy.
Damn, now we all gotta be healthy and happy. Nothing quite like a happy cat.
@@seifer447 Here when people get sick they still consumer a special cat stew using local feral cats which are considered pests and this makes for a happy cure. I dont want to try it but my Akita cross also is very happy and healthy eating 2 to 3 cats as a weekly staple feral or domestic she is not choosy. Nature is wonderful.
Scuse me, I did not come here to be emotionally manipulated into doing my self care by this reminder that the gods I love actually might be happy that *I* am happy and healthy
On the note of cats, I had been thinking about that comparison when my cat Festus did something even more analogous. Because we have several cats, we have cat balls and toys all over the house. Well, my Festus at one point started bringing them to me from time to time, giving me a cat ball. Do I have literally any use for this? Nope, not in the slightest. But anytime I hear him come down the stairs, yelling up a storm with a ball in his mouth, like Ocean said, it doesn't matter what mood I was in, I love it. Either way, awesome video as always :)
This is an extremely informative and thoughtful video.
My offerings are usually, for example, ale poured in my garden when making offering to Freyr and Freyja. Or leaving bread or other food in my back yard. When and if animals eat the food, I recognize that as the gods accepting my offering.
😊
The simplicity can’t be understated. Keep it simple and let it be. Don’t overthink it
During ritual there are times when I feel tempted to explicitly ask the Gods for particular gifts, especially when my need is high enough or if there is something stressing me out in life. I catch myself before doing this because I know this isn't how the gifting cycle works, and because it feels a little disrespectful to the Gods I'm reaching out to. Using the cat analogy, sometimes I feel like I'm the cat meowing angrily for an extra plate of food rather than the cat purring with contentment. The words you described when closing out a ritual resonate with me, because when I simply thank the Gods for what has already been given, and gift them in return, I feel more at peace and happier for it. And if the Gods decide to gift again, thats a bonus. Great video!
For me, offerings always come from a space of gratitude. They're always in thanks for gifts already received from the gods.
Also, in practicing the gifting cycle, I saw that there isn't enough food in the world to thank the gods for everything they do (and it felt a bit wasteful), so I asked their direction. I saw a sign later that said "What you are is God's gift to you. What you make of yourself is your gift to God". So actions offered to the gods are just as potent an offering as food or anything else. There's no greater thing you could offer than the contents of your life, right?
Tonight I'm offering Frigg incense and herbal tea to make the home a calm place to rest in thanks for her hard work today.
The cat purr is a good point. But I also like the toasting a friend for an achievement. I’ve had questions on how this all works and why. Offerings are like a toast to the gods; a way to show the respect and admiration you have for them. You’ve opened my eyes today, Ocean, and I hope this is something that I get to explore a little more.
05:00 This reminds me of a definition of love I once heard; Love is that which is freely given for the soul purpose of the benefit of another.
I try to be thoughtful with my gifts, just like I would be to fellow humans. Sure often times it is just alcohol or even water for my ship-fountain to Njordr on my altar, but sometimes I genuinely feel somehow that some special gifts are really appreciated.
Sometimes in my hectic day to day I try to make small offerings even if it's a shot of whiskey on the altar or last night's offering was a piece of flat bread I made. As someone who farms I not only give some of my harvest but I give me labor of the land and the work I do with my hands as an offering. Not sure if it's the right way but I feel it is appreciated
Are... the gods listening to me? I've been struggling with this question for about a week and this has appeared.
Hm.
Me too dude/person that is not a dude
@@romankotas448 I'll clarify, I am a dude lol.
Cats listen, and are amused.
Giving thank you cards as offerings is actually not a bad idea. They'd look super good on an altar too
This might be my favorite video, love the concept of frith and reciprocity. Not sure if this counts as reciprocity but I’d like to think a mom looking out for another mom would please Frigg. The formula shortage is very real in my area and the sister of one of my good friends has had serious trouble getting a very specific formula for her baby boy. She recently posted on FB, asking local friends to keep an eye out for the formula she needs and that she’d reimburse anyone who could find any. I went to the store with my toddler today and saw 6 cans of the formula on the shelf. I took a picture to confirm it was the right one, she said it was and I bought a can, told her to let me know when she needs it. No babies going hungry on my watch.
I hear the Rush song, "Resist," here:
You can surrender without a prayer, but never really pray without surrender.
A gift is something given up. A bargain is an exchange.
I do have to say, though, that's it's hard for me to think of Frith as anything but the Sun.
I have been buying Snickers bars since you announced this on your Community page. It makes me smile every time.
A snickers bad appears in the Realm of the Gods. Curious, They take it and hear a voice reverently whisper
"Because you're not you when your hungry."
I've started to think of it like this: suppose I had a friend who was much, much wealthier than I. If that friend hosted a dinner party and invited me, I would still want to bring some chocolates, or a bottle of wine, or a cake, flowers... They can definitely afford better versions of all of these things, and the gift doesn't have a noticeable impact on their situation, but it's still a nice gesture that shows that I care and value them and their friendship. If they are a good friend, they will appreciate the gesture
Thank you for this informative vid hail and blessed be
Absolutely fascinating. Thank you sir.
Also: Calcifer, Howl's Moving Castle... Much props
Kinda surprised he didn't go with Gigi.
This was a wonderful, thoughtful video for those of us new to deity work. Thank you.
Couple of points make me wanna journal around about my own thoughts on things.
Ocean, your way of expressing your thoughts on the relationship between humans and the gods, is so well done that I almost wish I could believe in the existence of the gods….
That's fine, one doesn't need to believe in tangible gods. Frith is separate from that. Offering to gods that don't exist is beneficial in and of itself.
so its like when my cat brings gifts to me because it thinks i cant hunt. i dont need it but its nice to know that it cares for me and the purring is very similar. at least thats the way i understand. we give gifts that they dont need but it is nice to know that we care?
I donate to charity as a form of offering. I tend to do beer though, sometimes herbs. Mostly I'll just feel like pouring some beer on the altar, in a cup of course. I do in thanks as well when something cool happens, if you will. As a witch though, I use one altar for all "my" gods, statues, and for magickal work. I suppose in that way I ask for specific things and sometimes in a traditional way make offerings for specific things. This has me thinking to, when I get the space for it, have a diety altar and a magickal altar. Thanks, and thanks for another great video 😃.
I think it more "the thought that counts" in offerings to gods.Its the energy behind it,the intentions , rather than the bread appearing in another realm.The effects of thought cannot be underestimated on many levels.As we know energy is neither created or destroyed ,but only transformed ,and I believe the same for the energy of thoughts.
I am new to being a Heathen, I came from a Catholic family background and I fell out of it due to various issues with Christianity personally. I have always been drawn to Norse Polytheism and something called me to take the dive. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around offerings and worshipping the Old Gods. This and various other videos tou have made has helped me out a lot. Thank you for your help in guiding path.
The prayer that you shared brought a real tear to my eye, thank you for sharing that, very beautiful, and worthwhile.
Great video 10 /10 wery informative video.
in ancient finland, hunters usually left a piece of their prey as a gift to Tapio the god of forests and hunting, including his wife Mielikki (the goddess of hunting luck)
One thing needs to be said that isn’t here. Back in the day most of your daily worship would be to family ancestors/spirits/hearth. Offerings to the gods were usually large communal events where substantial offerings are made usually with a priest operating the procedure and lots of ritual/processions.
A pagan sitting in their living room meditating with a snickers to Odin is a very modern practice. Not necessarily bad just not as sacred for my taste.
Smokers know these little rules :D when I used to smoke (luckily I quit 4 years ago) there was sometimes a times of need and you borrowed one from a colleague, a day later he is in the same need and you freely give one back. Now there was always that guy (or girl) who couldn't understand it and went "oh I'll give you 12cent for that on cigarette" like wtf no... That's not how it works :D today me, tomorrow you, it's giving and receiving without burdens
Talking about the gifting cycle and frith to mind my work as a zookeeper, especially with the troop of Japanese macaques (monkeys). Relationship building is incredibly helpful and rewarding, and gifts don't always come in the form of physical objects like food or enrichment toys, but also with positive social interactions, like initiating and reciprocating lip smacking (a friendly behavior - usually - it can vary a little by context). By building up frith as a bond of trust with monkeys, we can accomplish things like veterinary and husbandry behaviors cooperatively - benefitting all involved. That's how I use these concepts frequently in my life. I also engage in the gifting cycle with friends and certain gods. And actually this reminded me I want to make an offering before my family and I go on vacation!
This answers many questions...many thanks!
PUUUURRRRRRR FECT!
👍🐾🐺🧙♂️🐺🐾👍!!!
I wanted to say thanks for these video. They really help with perspective. Iv been solo in my worship for a long time now. And it's a great help not having to navigate every single detail myself
This, as usual, was very succinct and well put together. As others have said, the cat analogy was purr-ticularly well said. It's like... Does Thor need this oak leaf I found on the ground, or the piece of picture jasper? Loki the caramel apple sucker, small pile of glitter, or roll of washi tape? Of course not. I freely gave them because I thought they would appreciate such things. Such is the nature of reciprocity
In my perspective on food offerings the sustenance our gift provided is for the local wildlife the Gods or elf's/ ancestral spirit's manifest through.
This opened my eyes big time. Clears up exactly what I want out of my experience with the God's.
The gift not analogy really vibes for me. As ever great video
Very good content and presentation Ocean.
Neat analogy! ...Purrs for the gods and comments for the Algorithm!
Huh. I learned a version of that outro myself when I was coming up in Heathenry some 20 years ago. Good to know it is well known in the community!
Thank you for making this video. I am still learning about my faith in God's and how I can practice in my daily life. This was so helpful to understand offerings and why it's valuable, purr for my gratitude
The cat analogy was brilliant, it's better than any other explanation on the topic that I've ever heard or read
There's a Twix on my alter to Freya right now. lol
Yet again, a great and knowledgeable video. Thank you, Ocean. Can’t wait to think on these things during ritual.
I'm fond of the idea of self-serving gifts. For example, if you sacrifice time and energy to clean and tidy your abode, perhaps in the name of the ancient Greek goddess Hygieia, then the relationship is direct: you get a cleaner and tidier abode.
My understanding of offerings is that at one time in ancient antiquity the “gods” were flesh and blood and required sustenance. Enlil was hungry and enticed by the smell of roasting meat from the survivors of the flood and thus forgave humanity in the Sumerian myth. The difference was that “they” had technology we did not. It’s all a global cargo cult in a sense.
I really enjoyed this video the cat reference really made me understand. Keep up the good work
Your videos are always so very articulated, eloquent and insightful. Could you be so kind as to do a video on being a polytheist in a science-focused/modern world where skepticism runs rampant? I am having doubts :(
So glad I found your channel.
Greetings from Alberta! Just as we are talking about gits to & from the Gods, the 1st large waves of migrating Sand Hill Cranes is flying. A sure sign of Spring in this neck of the woods. Blessings to you all.
Thanks, Ocean! I know I received a gift this week and as someone new to the faith, I didn't know how to express my gratitude. My "Latent Christianity" has been barging in with signs of glee and daily gratitude, but I'm watching your series on prayers and offerings to give proper thanks as soon as I have the full picture of what to do and how to do it.
One ot the principle issues of this matter is the concept of "worship" . Modern people's concept of worship is largely shaped by the Abrahamic religions and is submissive and placatory by nature . I'm not convinced that's how ancient pagans saw their relationship with the Gods . I think that relationship was seen as more reciprocal and one of mutual benefit than as a master/servant model . In very animistic traditions it is certainly one of reciprocity.
It may have also varied from place to place as well?
Objectively untrue. The ancient people's absolutely saw themselves as beneath the gods. Believing we're equal to them is absolute arrogance.
"Let's talk about cats" got me 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Totally normal transition
@@OceanKeltoi yes indeed it's like let me drop this in here but like it also 100% worked an made sense.
I love this vide especially the ending. It describes perfectly what I believe, the gods are giving us the earth, the sun, sky, water.
The beginning part about reciprocity reminds me very much of gift economies that existed among stateless people like the germanic tribes. The whole conversation at the beginning reminded me of "Debt: The First Five Thousand Years" by David Graeber
Great channel you have here. Most informative.
Love it! "Find a way or make one."....!!! ❤❤❤
Great video. You're getting a lot better Calcifer, I didn't see the strings at all this time!
Wonderful segment....I love that final bit, I hope you don't mind me using that closing now. Thanks for the enlightenment once again. Your puns are silly and awesome!
Having an existential crisis of the soul lately tbh. Death has suddenly become very very scary to me. Thank you for your videos. They can’t balance the chemicals in my brain, or prove that I will still be me after I die, but they are comforting.
Thank you, I really needed to hear this!
I've been studying this stuff for several months now, feel as if I've stumbled upon yet another goldmine by finding your channel 👍
I do my rituals outside, so I'll leave an offering of beer and sweets outside too. In a few days the food is gone, clearly the gods must have taken them, totally not wild animals.
I'm joking, but only kinda. I believe animals are closer to the gods than we are, or are representatives of the gods. In mediation I once had a profound thought, what makes us more like the gods is what separates us most from the gods. As in our free will and intelligence
Amazing video!!
Thank you, this has been very helpful.
From Ocean
To RUclips
To Us.
From Us
To The Like
To The Bell.
A video has been given.
So may it get views.
I do this prayer often
sometimes I offer a piece of myself ( a lok of my hair to show I give myself to them other times it's tobacco as I like to smoke and other times I give something with great sentimental value like my father's necklaces and other times I give them a portion of the meal I have made for dinner )
Great video as always Ocean!
Thanks ^_^
Find a way or make one is a phrase I've made my own in a lot of ways, and hearing you say it at the end of this video was very comforting to me. Right place, right time. Hail!
This is a great discussion that should be had among polytheists. I would put forth that it’s not even a debate, for who can know the many names of the gods? Having met two gods has only furthered in me the belief that it is hard to know anything solidly. One presented as a Celtic masculine deity who showed me that he is known across cultures with many faces. The other was feminine and strictly presented as Egyptian. I agree that it is respectful to approach all as individuals unless they personally reveal to you their aspects or alternate names. I enjoyed your videos immensely as idea libraries and now also as a place to spout testimony of sorts in the comments. Thank you and many blessings!
I’ve been trying (and failing) to get into various forms of pagan worship for a while now, this process was always difficult for me to understand. Thank you for explaining it so well.
6:18
It could also be that the gods get busy. Not that you dont have their attention, or favor, but that they just have more pressing matters in the current moment.
The few times I've felt lonely in the past years, it has felt more like that. That the gods are doing something else that matters. Then they return, and we pick back up from where we were before. It is difficult to articulate, and it's already difficult for people to understand each other anyway. So, skål! 🍻
This video cleared up a lot of questions for me as an outsider. It also raised some new ones.
Do the gods acknowledge or aid people who are not engaged in reciprocity with them? If I can successfully buy a house and get food and return from a dangerous trip without ever acknowledging the gods, are they just indifferent to my indifference? Do they help out everyone regardless of frith, but have a preference for the ones that they do have frith with? If I believed in the gods but didn't feel compelled to offer them my thanks, would that change anything?
I get the idea of showing gratitude. It just seems to me that if that gratitude makes no discerable difference for either yourself or the gods as far as you can tell, then it's pointless. I could be missing something here 🤷🏾
''A prayer of the Athenians - ''Rain, dear Zeus. Make it rain upon the plains and fields of Athens''. Prayer should be offered this simply, or not at all''. From the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, c. 160-180 CE.
🦁 ☀️ 🐝 ⚡ 🦅 ⚡ 🐝 ☀️ 🦁
So many things learned. Thanks for this
HI dear O.K do happy to hear your voice had some stupid int.problems but now everything is ok and i can enjoy your stories 😘😁🖐❤🖤‼
When I make coffee I always give the first pour to the God's. It's a thanks for having the ability to work, and living my life with my family
Wired Gods. 🤭
I've never understood the tradition of gifts among humans, you've perfectly clarified some moments
Thanks
We use that closing prayer during our local blots and it works perfectly! 🖤
The concept of face, Wikipedia says it's differently perceived to separate cultures. Your mention of giving cycle different to some reminded me.
"...from Heaven to Earth, from the Earth to the [+] from the [+] to the grave, from the grave to the Sky..Lord, I lift your Name on high..."
Well done ocean. 👏 you made the second worst day I have had a million time better. It's been a hard few days for me with my depression i have been missing my son that I haven't seen since October. (Mom won't talk to me). This made me take a step back. Thank u
This is a great video which explains reciprocity in a way that is not only applicable to the gods, but to human relationships, and even to workplace culture: what is the difference between “incentives” to illicit an action, and a genuine show of appreciation from your boss?
Strangely, that was extremely insightful, thank you.
I was thinking of how cats seem to offer us dead mice as a good analogy. Although I have read recently that it's more like a warning to others, as we used to understand it, that it was a gift from the cat fits nicely here. We don't want or need a dead rat, but we appreciate the gesture.
i was just about to use a cat based analogy as soon as you said yours. although mine was “when your cat brings you a dead bird” lol
I see it like this: the blessings of the Gods are often material so a good portion of your worship should be material offerings. That need not be the only thing you do but I wouldn't recommend not giving something. Might be just my own experiences but I tend to have had a better feeling of connection giving offerings than just doing things. I've had absolutely amazing experiences doing both and that I think that shows how important both things are good and complementary
I love the notion that our offerings are us purring for the Gods.
Ah yes the gift freely given is of higher value than the gift given in hopes of a greater gift in return.
"The bread of life cast on the water will return three fold" Yet I am reminded of another " Life or the Gods/Goddesses give you what you need not what you want. These are sometimes frustrating to the individual.
Till we meet again, may your dreams become reality.
Thank you so much for explaining this so well! I finally feel like I have a starting point to work from now in my deity work.
I always look forward to your videos as you give good, realistic knowledge. That and your opening jokes & puns! 😁😁😁
The Hamingja Podcast episode 5 goes deeper into reciprocity, the gift giving cycle and the origins of it - the Proto-Indo-European ghosti principle; being the guest and the host at the same time.
Thank you for this video. It's a great insight into a question i have had for a while