the "admitting that other gods exist does not mean that you have to worship/pray them" part hit me so hard that now i have to say this to my restrictive christian parents and hope not to die after
For me, one of the deities that has long been with my as a companion is Lord Ganesha, even before I became a Hellenist. This was in part due to visiting a Hindu Temple in college where I felt a connection with the Hindu deities, and I was given a free statue of Ganesha to take home. Even though my religious journey has brought me to Hellenism, I still do honor Ganesha and keep the statue on my altar. So the idea that one culture's deities could be wrong and another right never made sense to me. If anything it just smacks of latent Christianity.
I think Ganesha was historically worshipped in the Greek kingdoms of what is now Northern India. Herakles is also a Buddhist deity. Westerners are confused about that, because they project Christian expectations into Polytheism and Animism.
I loved this video. I think latent Christianity drives me, and likely others, to seek the One Truth, but sometimes we just have to accept that such a thing, if it even exists, is not for humans to find in our lifetime.
I'm not a Christian (Jewish) but even the old testament (Torah) talks about other gods. It never made sense to me that Christians don't believe that other gods exist when the admonishment wasn't 'don't believe in them' or 'deny them" it was 'don't worship them.' That's very different. But I do think that there's also something inside of me that's been driving me to find 'the one truth.' The truth I'm finding is that human psychology is MUCH richer and more complex than most individuals can conceptualize. I'm coming to feel that the Jungian commonalities that people share in their stories are so much more important than our differences.
@@vociferonheraldofthewinter2284 it’s why I say Archetypes are the Software of Wetware. Also Ocean has an early video on Yahweh getting defeated in the Old Testament.
The right pantheon is the platonic pantheon god is all good and he created all things through his goodness. The gods of mythology are all evil and cannot be of divine origin for that which is divine must be totally perfect. So to the gods must totally be perfect in god there cannoy be 1 spot of taint
In addition to Isis being worshiped in Rome, Egyptians themselves acknowledged many foreign Gods. Their was a temple to Ba'al (I'm not sure which Ba'al, since that title refers to multiple deities) and Ishtar, and Anat was recorded as one of Set's wives. Speaking of middle eastern Gods and the worship of Isis abroad, there's actually a temple to Isis in Isreal, right next to what is thought to Solomon's mine.
I also heard this take from another heathen, that only the Germanic Gods exist and no others. I found it to be a bizarre opinion to hold coming from a polytheist, and also really quite upsetting. I'm not fond of the fundamentalist approach. There is so much history, so many deities from so many traditions and the various experiences that people have had. It seems strange to diminish that.
I'm a Heathen. My girlfriend is a Hellenist. I have had some really badass experiences with some of her gods, and she has had the same with some of ours. Our UPG experiences with each other's deities has been more than enough to convince us that just because a god or group of gods belongs to a different tradition or pantheon doesn't mean they're not real. This is why I have adopted the personal policy of not denying the existence of any god, and yes, that includes the Christian god (although I still firmly believe that if he does exist he is none of the things Christians claim him to be). And using "different experiences make Polytheism false" argument is literally using the existence of Polytheism as an argument against Polytheism. Side note, if my gf and I ever have kids in the future, they'll be growing up with more gods than they'll ever know what to do with. After all, why have just one Pantheon when you could Havamal? Edit: I also wanted to point out that Chicken Friars will live rent-free in my mind until the end of time.
Fun Fact: the Greek Gods Themselves have actually commented on the nature of Jesus. It is said that both the Delphic and Chaldean Oracles declared that Jesus was to be considered a "divine man". As in, not a full fledged deity but more akin to a hero. Regarding Yahweh, both Greeks and Hellenized Jews (like those living in Alexandria) tended to believe He is a form of either Zeus (because He's a Sky God focused on Law and Order) or Dionysos (because His worship often involves vegetation, wine, and dancing)!
@@martinecheverria5968 It's not even a secret anymore that the Bible is polytheist. Between that and First Kings 11, there's more than enough evidence to support such a claim.
I had a strange journey spiritually. I was raised with non denominational Christianity, became an atheist when I turned 17. Some years later I’m now embracing a combination of Hindu, Buddhist, and Daoist teachings. With which I have found fulfillment and personal experiences.
People seem to think there isn't enough room in the ENTIRE FREAKING COSMOS for all the gods. I find it more likely and plausible for them all to exist rather than just one or even one pantheon. Why not?
All the deities that I have "felt" anything within myself are all death/underworld gods, like Hades, Persephone, Hel, Ereshkigal, Osiris, Donn, Morrígan
Eh, that probably checks out. I mean, there's usually people who you just form better relationships with. And they can be a certain type that just meshes well with you. I for one worship mostly masculine war gods and tricksters even though I'm not very warlike or even that masculine. There just seem to be types of gods that work well with people for whatever reason. You might just mesh well with underworld gods.
I find the accusation of non-Norse gods not existing strange. I mean, I know synchronicity of the gods has occurred historically, but we also have examples of foreign deities being brought into common practice. This is seen most clearly with the Greeks and Romans, but there are other examples out there of this (even within Indigenous American traditions). I could understand if someone wished to practice some level of synchronicity, limiting the number of gods outside their pantheon (by synchronizing those they can), as there is some historical basis for this (even if I don't agree with doing it, at least not that often), but outright denial of the existence of foreign deities seems strange.
Even when I was Christian I always felt that there had to be more than one god (which is kind of why I turned from Christianity in the first place). Honestly it makes more sense that there is more than one pantheon, even Heathens have two, the Vanir and the Aesir. It only made sense to me that every culture has it's own pantheon.
The bible affirms the existence of other gods (which would be the Sons of the Creator God). Read psalm 82, exodus 12:12, or any passage of the new testament that talks about the principalities and powers
There are and the bible even says so it names them principalities or powers rulers in high places. In the book witchcraft and demonology it names these spirits the princes of the powers of the air. The gods of this aeon not in. A gnostic sense rather in just the literal translation, age this is why paul said the gods of the nations were demons. If you are truly a Christian than conspiracy realities are to be excepted part and parsal for jesus said the god of this world is the devil. Is it any surprise then that he called those bathed in the blood of christ the sons of satan? Is it any surprise the bible says the heart of man is so hopelessly wicked. Jesus name literally means the hand that destroys the establishment of the eye who do you think this was refercing? Lucifer
@@martinecheverria5968 Even in Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me." Though the bible says do not worship other gods, this verse didn't deny the existence of others. It just forbade the worship of others.
Ancient peoples used to, when they travelled to foreign lands, pay the due respect to the local gods whilst worshipping their own. This isn't something that can be practiced in places like the US or Australia in the modern day, the power dynamics are all backwards, but it should still inform our idea of how actual practitioners of polytheistic faiths viewed the beliefs of others. It's also why I tend to believe that, in some form, all gods exist, I just only worship the celtic gods, mainly those of britain and ireland. (Which is very different to how christians tend to equate worship and belief.)
I am sure I am not the only confirmed atheist who looks forward to watching Ocean's videos. Whilst I may not accept the existence of the supernatural, I really like the stories and I always find something new to take away with me having heard them. What polytheism offers is a different take on the human condition and that is interesting regardless of one's belief. I feel comfortable here, and the fact of Ocean's acceptance of other world views just makes it the more so. Good man yourself.
Atheist here also. I like the stories as well and approach them similarly to the way Joseph Campbell did. Mainly that there are symbolic truths to be found when the stories are not taken literally, and they can all offer insights to the human condition.
Just wanted to say that I love your videos Ocean. I grew up in an ultra conservative church and I struggled with it for years. I still know that I’ve had spiritual experiences with Christ that don’t necessarily line up with doctrine, because I’ve also had experiences with Thor and Odin. I tend to believe that there was some divinity (for lack of a better word) in Christ, and that his message was wildly misinterpreted for various reasons. My personal practice includes Christ with Thor and Odin, and I tend to get a lot of kick back from family. I appreciate your channel and what it provides
The abrahamic religions are big one "mine is true, yours is not" whoch completely flies in the face of ancient practice of tolerance. There is evidence in various histories of adoption, adaptation and assimilation within various religious practices and traditions, which only bolsters the argument of "my gods are mine, and your god are yours, let's talk about that."
I saw a claim that only the Greek gods existed once.. It was odd. I think that perhaps the need for "One Truth" or an "Ultimate Power" may stem in part from a lack of comfort with ambiguity and chaos, and insecurity around having internal worth and meaning vs external validation. In other words, and to paraphrase an old movie: "This is my storm God. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My storm God is my best friend..." I believe in my gods and myself. I recognize their power, and am not concerned with comparing it to that of others, for others gods are not mine. The truth of my life is something I will spend my life looking for, and the truth that can be spoken is not the real truth. (bonus Daoism!)
The idea that polytheists believe that their Pantheon is the only correct one is a misconception that I see from many atheists, including myself when I was an atheist. I'm glad that you made a video dispelling this narrative since it can be an easy way to justify disregarding polytheism entirely. On a somewhat rated note, an interesting theory is that all of the Pantheons of the various polytheist traditions have some overlap with each other. If you look at the similarities of deities from various Pantheons then it's not too far-fetched to assume that some of them were worshipped by different cultures under different names.
There's a concept called Interpretatio Graeca (Greek Translation) during the Hellenic period. They definitely saw their pantheon as "the only gods", but also recognized that the gods can appear in deferent "aspects" to deferent people/cultures. The main application was to combine greek and roman gods, but also to understand most surrounding pantheons (Carthaginian, Etruscan, Egyptian, Germanic, random cults in remote mountains, etc.)
My friend recommended this video to me and I actually am quite glad to hear this take because I have ran into this in my past where other Pagans would bring this up and claim that to "jump from pantheon to pantheon" was allegedly disrespectful to the respective deities and that you could get in big trouble for it. I find this quite ironic as in my own past, I have had encounters with Brigid and then later on I finally had contact with Odin after mistaking him for the Morrigan. Lo and behold, Odin was around during more formative years of my life and after consulting a trusted source to commune with Odin, he even recommended I work WITH the Morrigan. I always found the idea of thinking only one pantheon is the "true" pantheon or the only one you have to work with asinine. The gods (no matter which pantheon) I feel have a lot they do wish to teach us. To limit people from learning from them and limit the gods themselves I feel is silly.
Tbh its kinda intuitive where there is conflicting belief, like parallel gods. Like if I believe in eg the sun, sky, and earth deities of the eg Norse tradition, its weird to accept that the sun, sky and and earth gods from Egyptian and/or Greek tradition exist too. If they exist in parallel, that kinda diminishes them, and instead of some kind of cosmic gods they turn out to be more like some animist local spirits. An alternative would be yhat the Norse sun god and the Egyptian and the Greek sun gods are all one sun god, just experienced by different people in different traditions.
The way I resolve that is that there are no sun gods. Just gods associated with the sun. A deity being associated with something doesn't mean they have exclusive rule of it, merely that they are a powerful divine entity either born from that thing's energy or that took a particular interest and liking to that thing (not sure which.)
@@alicev5496 this. Especially with science answering questions like "what is that big burning bright thing in the sky?" it is easier to have concept of gods having power of or over something rather than being that something. To me it doesn't diminish anything unless there is a need for supremecy somewhere.
I haven't heard this in polytheist circles. For me it's a comfort to have a multiplicity of gods or there, even if I never learn about some of them let alone meet them.
I have had to explain that I acknowledge that other gods exist. I have thought that I was alone in this thought process since I have converted. Thank you for your explanation
honestly i find that this is worryingly common among new polytheists. "well i do stuff with the greek gods but i think all the gods exist. is that weird" is practically verbatim from some conversations i've had. i really hope they all find this video too
I don’t believe in this, but rather that all deities from every mythic Pantheon exists in and of a sphere of many metaphysical dimensions/domains, (perhaps hyperspace/DMT-reality or quantum mechanics) and that we humans can tap into some of that residual divine essence that we like to call spiritualism or gnosis.
A Polytheist believing only in the Gods of their culture to the total exclusion of all others is logically inconsistent. If you believe in a near infinite amount of Gods and spirits then what's one or ten or a hundred or a million more? On top of that, when we consider that many deities are linked to specific locations like specific rivers or trees or mountains then the very existence of land outside of the arbitrary borders of whatever land occupied by a certain culture is evidence enough that there must be Gods outside of the ones you are already familiar with. Add to this that deities have local variations in customs within singular cultural pantheons already and it just becomes all too easy to accept the other Gods as real (whether as independent entities or as localized forms of Gods you already know). There's also the fact that some Gods are apotheosized humans. Humans that would have only been present in specific regions of the world during Their lifetimes. If you are from India and you go west and find people worshipping deities like Antinous (the deified lover of the Roman emperor Hadrian) or Divus Julius (the apotheosized Julius Caesar) then already you have examples of Gods outside of your own culture that were being worshipped in the ways of the people local to where They lived. Surely this would be evidence enough that people in other lands have access to the divine or else how could their dead not just manifest as mighty dead but as Gods? Some divine authority would have had to have been involved
I appreciate, in ways that I cannot sufficiently articulate, your channel immensely. The information, arguments and perspective you provide here has been invaluable as I begin exploring this new path. The ADHD makes reading for lengthy amounts of time difficult, and creators like yourself are a lifesaver in those moments when the desire to learn is great, but the capacity for focused attention in not so much. Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you.
I've met people that believed they were better than others to worship an exclusive German polytheist tradition, but I've never heard a polytheist invalidating other pantheons and deities. Now that I think of it, they really were folkists, saying that only "those who were of the tradition on previous life were accepted into the current branch of tradition". Quite ironic, that only a member of said tradition can confirm if you were a member of that tradition.
All the culture and religion that came from Proto Indo-European heritage has a single source from the wider culture of PIE, from Germany, Scandinavia and greater Europe all the way to India and Iran. Even Christianity has been somewhat influenced by PIE. To say that only one pantheon of gods is the true one not only brings you down to the Christian “one-true-god”level of morality, but ignores the historical connection of these gods from the distant past.
I don't think there are multiple pantheons; I think there's only one pantheon, that stories about the gods are allegorical, that the beings we refer to as say, Thor, or Jupiter, or Anubis are just one God referred to by different names across cultures.
The first deity I had appreciable contact with was from the Egyptian tradition... but as much as I love him I couldn't find my heart in those practices. I ended up in heathenry... And a member of my first hall gave me hell for worshipping outside the One True Pantheon or whatever. Come to find out he is a white supremacist of the banal and cowardly kind, the most boringly vanilla bigot I have ever encountered. I'm so glad to have gone no contact with him long ago.
The only time I have ever heard of, one pantheon would be Christianity. I’ve never heard this from a polytheist. I can’t believe someone even said this!
If i may mention something slightly off topic about something in your video, I love that bit in stroops infographic there about not owing anyone a debate. You have no obligation to explain your religion or lack thereof and have every right and capacity to say I'm not going to discuss it. I know at least here in the south we tend to have plenty of ambush evangelism and saying no and discussing it no further in my experience shuts it down a little bit faster than trying to get them to accept that you have a different belief.
Ad a follower of the germanic path, I think the while concept of vanir is proof that they're other gods from other pantheons. That's just my interpretation, of course
I believe all religions hold only part of the truth. I believe many greasy spirits exist. As a child going through foster care I grew up learning many religions. My blood family are native American spirituality and Hungarian traditional spirituality. No one religion has all the answers, they are but mere fragments of the truth distorted and fractured, like looking into a broken mirror. I am interested in hearing your point of view. I am working on a book about this.
I’m only about five minutes in I have to take a break to run some errands. However, from what I am hearing this is absolute gold!. I’m coming from a very heavy Christian tradition. In fact I would say I’m not even out of it. I’m really just starting to question things, but one of the reasons why I’m very frustrated with Christianity is how other Christians will point to other Christians and tell them that they are going to hell because they have a false theology, I can’t tell you how many times I have heard a Presbyterian or Baptist or Lutheran or Pentecostal tell a Mormon or a seventh day or Jehovah witness that they are going to hell because they have the wrong beliefs. Even though they technically are still in the realm of Christianity. I’m loving this video. I love what you’re talking about and I’m excited to finish it. I was so excited that I had to leave this comment and I’m only a little into the video lol
I mean, it is rather self defeating. If a pagan argues that they are basically throwing all of the philosophical advantages paganism has over monotheism and kicks them out of the window.
Not being contentious, this is a serious question: What does incorporating Fortuna into your practice "within a Heathen context" look like? I too have felt drawn to specific deities from other pantheons outside of Norse Heathenry (in my case Welsh/Cornish and Hellenic), but have had difficulties in figuring out the "how-to."
doesn't comparative mythology prove that most of the pantheons from Europe through the siberia into the near east and india and even parts of north america are just taking the yamnaya culture's stories and changing the details around; theres usually a sky father that creates two twins and a cow, one twin kills the other, usually to mold them into the earth. theres a sacred tree that gives gifts of wisdom but at a price because the wisdom comes from the roots of the tree connecting to the underworld river that removes the memories from the dead and the underworld is guarded by dogs usually 3 or one 3 headed one, and the underworld has 3 witches that see\write the future, and theres a third brother who kills a dragon, usually a three headed one, usually so he can rescue that cow
Amazing video that is much needed. I feel a sort of latent Christianity is to blame for me (and many others) for the paranoia that there must "be only one" and that it is "impossible" for others to exist. As a baby pagan it was hard to overcome that paranoia that conflicted with my belief of all. I certainly have encounter polytheists who's idea of being "polytheist" is worshiping the old gods of one pantheon and claiming any other as false or not being able to validate worshiping other pantheons. This is going to be extremally helpful to bring up when I encounter such questioning about my beliefs.
I was about to make the same comment that others have already made. Coming from Christianity, the idea of mutually exclusive truth is deeply ingrained: “If this, then not that.” “The existence of mine negates the existence of yours.” It’s such a different mindset with polytheism, and I have a feeling it takes a good deal of work to move away from that type of monotheistic worldview.
Being a Gaelic and Norse pagan myself, I've struggled with this question, but mainly when a non-practitioner asked me which afterlife I believe is true.
This is honestly the first time I heard about a heathen claiming only his gods exist - in the context of real life. Before that it's just fiction in the form of Vikings where characters like Floki insist that only the Norse gods exist and everyone else is a "false god". So I'm wondering if these heathens I'm hearing about now in your video and in the comments below were influenced by fiction, or whether those fictional character reflect those actual people. If that makes any sense.
I am ethnically Assyrian but I feel a much stronger connection to the Norse and Germanic pantheon than the Assyrian one, yet I also don't want to completely abandon my Assyrian ancestors! Assyrians are a Christian majority nowadays and I grew up in a Christian family but I've been interested in paganism for a very long time I am completely new to this, so thank you very much
The idea that only one pantheon of gods exists is the strangest take one can have within polytheism, and to be somewhat I honest I think there may some sort of folkist impetus in some variations of the take. I can only imagine the applications this must have among AFA adherents.
It's so nice to be able to view your videos all together! The continuous discussion is always fantastic. The term latent christianity has been so useful in thinking about these sorts of things & has made my own world view seem so much more full & vaildated with the vocabulary and resources that you've shared.
I've always thought it is that there IS only one pantheon. A pantheon of "overgods", who are icons or archetypes of various ideals. For example...why do almost all dog related gods hold a position of death or afterlife gods? Why do almost all thunder or skyfather gods seem to have something to do with serpents of some sort? There's quite a few correlations. Why was Apollo born in a cave, but Amaterasu sealed herself in one during an argument with her brother? There's some kind of...relation here. Chango of the Orisha is a thunder God who has a magic weapon that he uses to smite his enemies and is viewed as the best warrior of his people. So aside from the people worshipping him and the whole skin tone thing... he's almost Thor. So in my head, there is only one pantheon, they just have different types of skins they wear, almost like a variation of a video game character. A different avatar. They're so powerful, so vast they can only interact with us by lessening themselves to a human form. And each people see them as their own kind.
I'm a norse pagan, but I've had one spiritual experience involving the Greek god Ares. Thus, I acknowledge the prescence of gods beyond the norse pantheon.
Thank you for sharing this video Ocean. I found it very helpful as my personal experience with different ditties has come from many different cultures without me knowing much about any of them. I try to stay away from pinning stuff down, regardless of how powerful my experience is, it would require some evidence I could prove to you. In some situations I believe I do have a form of physical proof but I would say it could still be debatable from another's perspective. Don't mean to write an essay, you have highly engaging content, which I am extremely grateful for. Thank you again Ocean, may you be blessed by the deities you hold dear, and the one I hold near as well 🙏🏽
I have this headcannon that the gods are all an energy/a force of nature personified and we all call them by a different name. Roman vs Greek gods are a great example of this but I also would say that both Zeus and Thor are both thunder by different names, or Hel, Hades, and Anubis are all death incarnate.
As disclaimer, I am an atheist, still I never heard that regarding polytheism, since like you said it is counter productive. But maybe it is also because I have read many different mythological stories and know how various deities got integrated by various cultures. I mean basically one can see the sky father / male weather deity trope spreading from the proto Indo European origins to all over the northern hemisphere, that it would be silly to assume that any one culture who makes use of that archetype is more right than others.
It is so funny / interesting listening to you using reason on religion. I'm not an academic and I am whole unused to it being used outised Og atheists arguing against literal interpretation of this and that... Listening to a pegan spending so much time (this and other videos) on logic. I think I have a tendency to separate my belief from logic. You have inspired me to look at it in a different light. Thank you Cheers from Denmark
From my reading, Europeans seem to have always seen their gods as related or comparable and even had no problem sacrificing to the gods of their enemies for advantage in battle. The pantheons seem mostly tied to a place or people. The Romans might sacrifice to the local gods because they were in those gods territory, not their own. The personal gods across all the indo-euros were primarily tied to ancestry though. De Coulanges book The Ancient City details this extensively and is worth reading. At the end of the year I do a burn and give sacrifice to celebrate all the gods, known and unknown in thanks for another year on earth. It’s an ahistorical rite, but I feel compelled to do it this way so I do.
I see connections between all religions, and not simply on a basis of human nature. I believe all these ancient polytheistic faiths (as well as the monotheistic ones to a degree) hold but a shred of some primordial truth, we all hold a piece of the puzzle if you will.
I also agree that the consequences of holding only one pantheon as true far outweigh the benefits. Even with the case of say, "who is right about where we go when we die?" I already hold that different people may go to different places, so other people having a different idea about the afterlife doesn't really effect MY beliefs about the afterlife(s). To me, "who is right about x" is just not that important, which is where I run into trouble with people who find that question very important.
I really want to see a video on how you practice. Like maybe an alter tour if you have one or just explanation on how you practice your faith. Because in relation to other polytheist you have a unique take on why you do what you do. Ig that is to say you seem more justified since you have more detail as to why you do what you do.
I like to believe that all pantheons exist. And if you believed in one during your life, then in death you go to whatever afterlife for that pantheon. And If you didn't believe in any religion/pantheon during your life, then they could choose a afterlife that goes with a pantheon. If any are real, hopefully so.
The ancient Greeks already dealt with this question and came to a conclusion with which I identify, the gods in different pantheons are one and the same being that comes to people in the form that is best for these people and their culture
Your concern for epistemological consistency is truly noteworthy. In my efforts to do likewise I am currently a non believer. History seems to lend credence to your position. I have only seen where a polytheist might assert their gods as more powerful, most likely before conflict; not, however, that the others were non existent. I thought that was the claim of the monotheist. I am a wonder as to the number and practices of so many destroyed or unrecorded pantheons. Great video, great pun. Looking forward to your philosophical presentations.
This is a beautiful video, and I bet this helps with latent Christianity. That there can only be "one true god" verses all the gods being real and just not part of our worship
The only true pantheon is obviously god, god as a spooky ghost, and god as a nice hippie. All other religions are inferior because their gods aren’t just one god wearing different hats. And let’s also not forgot gods lovely red skinned assistant who helps him “DEAL” with the bad people. Honestly that dude doesn’t get enough appreciation, for some reason most followers of the three hats really don’t like him.
I actually think and believe there are only one set/group of gods and goddesses and every culture/pantheon has different names for them and different jobs/roles such as Greek, norse, celtic, germanic. But it's all one set or grouof deites. And it's not their fault we humans worship them differently
Watching your videos is slowly changing my atheistic, naturalistic stance as I’m a big god of war fan and after playing the last one I literally want to pray to Heimdallr for perception against those that wish to do me harm👌🏾
If we are asking about the original god(s) it would most Likely end in one of 3 options. - Nature (elemental) worship - Sun and / or moon worship - and animism
A great opener!!! A PAN theon!!! Lol!!! The points that you bring to the table today, are very interesting...! I just had a " chat" with a ( self proclaimed monotheistic Christian)! Yup!! It got good,til we got to certain traditions , n then his " stuff ", fell apart! We will just say the rest of the chat went in the compost toilet, quick!! I get it about shared space of the ' gods ' , but the whole of the traditions for one just being right, and others being wrong...not so much??!! I ended , just saying ... you do your's, n I will be ( right ) over here..doing mine...and we can agree, to disagree, if ya want!!?? Lol! Thanks for the food for thought...quite a feast!! [Blot]!!?? As to your outro: YES!!! it is a curse on my mind...I guess I am just a glutton for philosophy pun -ishment!!! Ok..the door out,is over here..>>>!?????? 👍🐾🐺🧙♂️🐺🐾👍!
I really appreciate this video, after watching days ago, it has been on my mind a lot. This opinion has really opened my eyes and led me down a path of letting go of my issues with Christianity. Even if I choose not to worship their God, I must remember that if I believe in many gods, I must be more open. Even if some Christianity denies our faith, we must take the high road and not let it ruin our lives. Thank you once again for great content!
the idea of a "one correct religion" is such an abrahamic view, to my knowledge (correct me if im wrong) there is no punishment for worshipping gods from other pantheons in any/most polytheistic viewpoints, so why should you believe only your religion is the right one?
This makes me want to mull over Myth and Religion of the North by E. O. G. Turville-Petre all over again. So much overlappage damnear worldwide. Also BTW, Amon Amarth's The Great Heathen Army LP is about to drop and they're using your catchphrase as a track.
I believe that, as a polytheist, that multiple pantheons are existent and agree that it’s a personal experience for what is practiced. Much like my practice in the reconstruction of Norse paganism and the Norse pantheon!
the "admitting that other gods exist does not mean that you have to worship/pray them" part hit me so hard that now i have to say this to my restrictive christian parents and hope not to die after
Its been a year. Are you still alive?
@@KiltedShepherdasking the real questions here
For me, one of the deities that has long been with my as a companion is Lord Ganesha, even before I became a Hellenist. This was in part due to visiting a Hindu Temple in college where I felt a connection with the Hindu deities, and I was given a free statue of Ganesha to take home. Even though my religious journey has brought me to Hellenism, I still do honor Ganesha and keep the statue on my altar.
So the idea that one culture's deities could be wrong and another right never made sense to me. If anything it just smacks of latent Christianity.
I think Ganesha was historically worshipped in the Greek kingdoms of what is now Northern India. Herakles is also a Buddhist deity.
Westerners are confused about that, because they project Christian expectations into Polytheism and Animism.
Jai Sri Ganesh!
Well,... it's hard to resist a god that likes candy!!
@@thepeopleslibrary8673 there's also the "viking" Buddha statue that exists
I am drawn to both Hindu and Hellenist deities so I relate a lot to this.
I loved this video. I think latent Christianity drives me, and likely others, to seek the One Truth, but sometimes we just have to accept that such a thing, if it even exists, is not for humans to find in our lifetime.
Well maybe if we can reincarnate…
I'm not a Christian (Jewish) but even the old testament (Torah) talks about other gods. It never made sense to me that Christians don't believe that other gods exist when the admonishment wasn't 'don't believe in them' or 'deny them" it was 'don't worship them.' That's very different.
But I do think that there's also something inside of me that's been driving me to find 'the one truth.' The truth I'm finding is that human psychology is MUCH richer and more complex than most individuals can conceptualize. I'm coming to feel that the Jungian commonalities that people share in their stories are so much more important than our differences.
@@vociferonheraldofthewinter2284 it’s why I say Archetypes are the Software of Wetware.
Also Ocean has an early video on Yahweh getting defeated in the Old Testament.
The right pantheon is the platonic pantheon god is all good and he created all things through his goodness.
The gods of mythology are all evil and cannot be of divine origin for that which is divine must be totally perfect.
So to the gods must totally be perfect in god there cannoy be 1 spot of taint
The one truth is the one that resonates with you and youalone
In addition to Isis being worshiped in Rome, Egyptians themselves acknowledged many foreign Gods. Their was a temple to Ba'al (I'm not sure which Ba'al, since that title refers to multiple deities) and Ishtar, and Anat was recorded as one of Set's wives. Speaking of middle eastern Gods and the worship of Isis abroad, there's actually a temple to Isis in Isreal, right next to what is thought to Solomon's mine.
Hadad, most likely, THE Ba'al, in essence. He'd be syncretized with Seth in their texts.
Anat was another deity the Egyptians loved in the NK period.
I also heard this take from another heathen, that only the Germanic Gods exist and no others. I found it to be a bizarre opinion to hold coming from a polytheist, and also really quite upsetting. I'm not fond of the fundamentalist approach. There is so much history, so many deities from so many traditions and the various experiences that people have had. It seems strange to diminish that.
strange thing is existence of so many useless dieties lol :D
I see each pantheon as a facet of the overall truth. With the Anima Mundi at the center of it all.
Also wouldn't make sense from an ancient Germanic perspective.
@@jamesbradleysears7188 yeah wasn’t the archaeological evidence the Vanir were partly related to the Tuatha dé Danann?
Worst type of "heathen" tbh. I bet he also thinks that Caucasian people are superior to others
I'm a Heathen. My girlfriend is a Hellenist. I have had some really badass experiences with some of her gods, and she has had the same with some of ours. Our UPG experiences with each other's deities has been more than enough to convince us that just because a god or group of gods belongs to a different tradition or pantheon doesn't mean they're not real. This is why I have adopted the personal policy of not denying the existence of any god, and yes, that includes the Christian god (although I still firmly believe that if he does exist he is none of the things Christians claim him to be). And using "different experiences make Polytheism false" argument is literally using the existence of Polytheism as an argument against Polytheism.
Side note, if my gf and I ever have kids in the future, they'll be growing up with more gods than they'll ever know what to do with. After all, why have just one Pantheon when you could Havamal?
Edit: I also wanted to point out that Chicken Friars will live rent-free in my mind until the end of time.
Fun Fact: the Greek Gods Themselves have actually commented on the nature of Jesus. It is said that both the Delphic and Chaldean Oracles declared that Jesus was to be considered a "divine man". As in, not a full fledged deity but more akin to a hero. Regarding Yahweh, both Greeks and Hellenized Jews (like those living in Alexandria) tended to believe He is a form of either Zeus (because He's a Sky God focused on Law and Order) or Dionysos (because His worship often involves vegetation, wine, and dancing)!
@@WildMen4444 Good old Yahweh, Greek god of wine and orgies! lmao
Hey man, read Psalm 82! This is how it starts: "God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the gods”
Can I ask what your GF things about the unknown god, Agnostos Theos?
@@martinecheverria5968 It's not even a secret anymore that the Bible is polytheist. Between that and First Kings 11, there's more than enough evidence to support such a claim.
-You certainly have a lot of ways to say “god”, but what do you mean by “god”? Heathen? Egyptian? Celtic?
-All of them at once.
This is precisely why I left a monotheistic religion and embraced polytheism. So much more fulfilling and a richer experience.
"It feels good thus it must be true" type of argument
I had a strange journey spiritually. I was raised with non denominational Christianity, became an atheist when I turned 17. Some years later I’m now embracing a combination of Hindu, Buddhist, and Daoist teachings. With which I have found fulfillment and personal experiences.
People seem to think there isn't enough room in the ENTIRE FREAKING COSMOS for all the gods. I find it more likely and plausible for them all to exist rather than just one or even one pantheon. Why not?
Also think of the likelihood of other civilizations out there in the universe, and what gods they may have!
All the deities that I have "felt" anything within myself are all death/underworld gods, like Hades, Persephone, Hel, Ereshkigal, Osiris, Donn, Morrígan
Eh, that probably checks out. I mean, there's usually people who you just form better relationships with. And they can be a certain type that just meshes well with you. I for one worship mostly masculine war gods and tricksters even though I'm not very warlike or even that masculine. There just seem to be types of gods that work well with people for whatever reason. You might just mesh well with underworld gods.
I find the accusation of non-Norse gods not existing strange. I mean, I know synchronicity of the gods has occurred historically, but we also have examples of foreign deities being brought into common practice. This is seen most clearly with the Greeks and Romans, but there are other examples out there of this (even within Indigenous American traditions). I could understand if someone wished to practice some level of synchronicity, limiting the number of gods outside their pantheon (by synchronizing those they can), as there is some historical basis for this (even if I don't agree with doing it, at least not that often), but outright denial of the existence of foreign deities seems strange.
It is downright bizarre.
Even when I was Christian I always felt that there had to be more than one god (which is kind of why I turned from Christianity in the first place). Honestly it makes more sense that there is more than one pantheon, even Heathens have two, the Vanir and the Aesir. It only made sense to me that every culture has it's own pantheon.
The bible affirms the existence of other gods (which would be the Sons of the Creator God). Read psalm 82, exodus 12:12, or any passage of the new testament that talks about the principalities and powers
Psalm 82:1 "God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the gods”
There are and the bible even says so it names them principalities or powers rulers in high places.
In the book witchcraft and demonology it names these spirits the princes of the powers of the air.
The gods of this aeon not in. A gnostic sense rather in just the literal translation, age this is why paul said the gods of the nations were demons.
If you are truly a Christian than conspiracy realities are to be excepted part and parsal for jesus said the god of this world is the devil.
Is it any surprise then that he called those bathed in the blood of christ the sons of satan? Is it any surprise the bible says the heart of man is so hopelessly wicked.
Jesus name literally means the hand that destroys the establishment of the eye who do you think this was refercing? Lucifer
@@martinecheverria5968 Even in Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me."
Though the bible says do not worship other gods, this verse didn't deny the existence of others. It just forbade the worship of others.
Even Heathens sounds like a sick name for a band.
Ancient peoples used to, when they travelled to foreign lands, pay the due respect to the local gods whilst worshipping their own. This isn't something that can be practiced in places like the US or Australia in the modern day, the power dynamics are all backwards, but it should still inform our idea of how actual practitioners of polytheistic faiths viewed the beliefs of others. It's also why I tend to believe that, in some form, all gods exist, I just only worship the celtic gods, mainly those of britain and ireland.
(Which is very different to how christians tend to equate worship and belief.)
I am sure I am not the only confirmed atheist who looks forward to watching Ocean's videos. Whilst I may not accept the existence of the supernatural, I really like the stories and I always find something new to take away with me having heard them. What polytheism offers is a different take on the human condition and that is interesting regardless of one's belief. I feel comfortable here, and the fact of Ocean's acceptance of other world views just makes it the more so. Good man yourself.
Atheist here also. I like the stories as well and approach them similarly to the way Joseph Campbell did. Mainly that there are symbolic truths to be found when the stories are not taken literally, and they can all offer insights to the human condition.
Atheist here also. I like the fact that he explains his beliefs in a way that invites interpretation and personal experience. I like it.
Just wanted to say that I love your videos Ocean. I grew up in an ultra conservative church and I struggled with it for years. I still know that I’ve had spiritual experiences with Christ that don’t necessarily line up with doctrine, because I’ve also had experiences with Thor and Odin. I tend to believe that there was some divinity (for lack of a better word) in Christ, and that his message was wildly misinterpreted for various reasons. My personal practice includes Christ with Thor and Odin, and I tend to get a lot of kick back from family. I appreciate your channel and what it provides
Christ with Thor and Odin. I like that
The abrahamic religions are big one "mine is true, yours is not" whoch completely flies in the face of ancient practice of tolerance. There is evidence in various histories of adoption, adaptation and assimilation within various religious practices and traditions, which only bolsters the argument of "my gods are mine, and your god are yours, let's talk about that."
I saw a claim that only the Greek gods existed once.. It was odd.
I think that perhaps the need for "One Truth" or an "Ultimate Power" may stem in part from a lack of comfort with ambiguity and chaos, and insecurity around having internal worth and meaning vs external validation.
In other words, and to paraphrase an old movie: "This is my storm God. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My storm God is my best friend..."
I believe in my gods and myself. I recognize their power, and am not concerned with comparing it to that of others, for others gods are not mine. The truth of my life is something I will spend my life looking for, and the truth that can be spoken is not the real truth.
(bonus Daoism!)
The idea that polytheists believe that their Pantheon is the only correct one is a misconception that I see from many atheists, including myself when I was an atheist. I'm glad that you made a video dispelling this narrative since it can be an easy way to justify disregarding polytheism entirely.
On a somewhat rated note, an interesting theory is that all of the Pantheons of the various polytheist traditions have some overlap with each other. If you look at the similarities of deities from various Pantheons then it's not too far-fetched to assume that some of them were worshipped by different cultures under different names.
There's a concept called Interpretatio Graeca (Greek Translation) during the Hellenic period. They definitely saw their pantheon as "the only gods", but also recognized that the gods can appear in deferent "aspects" to deferent people/cultures. The main application was to combine greek and roman gods, but also to understand most surrounding pantheons (Carthaginian, Etruscan, Egyptian, Germanic, random cults in remote mountains, etc.)
My friend recommended this video to me and I actually am quite glad to hear this take because I have ran into this in my past where other Pagans would bring this up and claim that to "jump from pantheon to pantheon" was allegedly disrespectful to the respective deities and that you could get in big trouble for it.
I find this quite ironic as in my own past, I have had encounters with Brigid and then later on I finally had contact with Odin after mistaking him for the Morrigan. Lo and behold, Odin was around during more formative years of my life and after consulting a trusted source to commune with Odin, he even recommended I work WITH the Morrigan.
I always found the idea of thinking only one pantheon is the "true" pantheon or the only one you have to work with asinine. The gods (no matter which pantheon) I feel have a lot they do wish to teach us. To limit people from learning from them and limit the gods themselves I feel is silly.
Tbh its kinda intuitive where there is conflicting belief, like parallel gods. Like if I believe in eg the sun, sky, and earth deities of the eg Norse tradition, its weird to accept that the sun, sky and and earth gods from Egyptian and/or Greek tradition exist too. If they exist in parallel, that kinda diminishes them, and instead of some kind of cosmic gods they turn out to be more like some animist local spirits. An alternative would be yhat the Norse sun god and the Egyptian and the Greek sun gods are all one sun god, just experienced by different people in different traditions.
The way I resolve that is that there are no sun gods. Just gods associated with the sun. A deity being associated with something doesn't mean they have exclusive rule of it, merely that they are a powerful divine entity either born from that thing's energy or that took a particular interest and liking to that thing (not sure which.)
@@alicev5496 this. Especially with science answering questions like "what is that big burning bright thing in the sky?" it is easier to have concept of gods having power of or over something rather than being that something.
To me it doesn't diminish anything unless there is a need for supremecy somewhere.
I haven't heard this in polytheist circles. For me it's a comfort to have a multiplicity of gods or there, even if I never learn about some of them let alone meet them.
I have had to explain that I acknowledge that other gods exist. I have thought that I was alone in this thought process since I have converted. Thank you for your explanation
honestly i find that this is worryingly common among new polytheists. "well i do stuff with the greek gods but i think all the gods exist. is that weird" is practically verbatim from some conversations i've had. i really hope they all find this video too
I too, have a ridiculously wide variety of cooking instruments which I value equally. You could call me a Pantheist.
I don’t believe in this, but rather that all deities from every mythic Pantheon exists in and of a sphere of many metaphysical dimensions/domains, (perhaps hyperspace/DMT-reality or quantum mechanics) and that we humans can tap into some of that residual divine essence that we like to call spiritualism or gnosis.
A Polytheist believing only in the Gods of their culture to the total exclusion of all others is logically inconsistent. If you believe in a near infinite amount of Gods and spirits then what's one or ten or a hundred or a million more? On top of that, when we consider that many deities are linked to specific locations like specific rivers or trees or mountains then the very existence of land outside of the arbitrary borders of whatever land occupied by a certain culture is evidence enough that there must be Gods outside of the ones you are already familiar with. Add to this that deities have local variations in customs within singular cultural pantheons already and it just becomes all too easy to accept the other Gods as real (whether as independent entities or as localized forms of Gods you already know). There's also the fact that some Gods are apotheosized humans. Humans that would have only been present in specific regions of the world during Their lifetimes. If you are from India and you go west and find people worshipping deities like Antinous (the deified lover of the Roman emperor Hadrian) or Divus Julius (the apotheosized Julius Caesar) then already you have examples of Gods outside of your own culture that were being worshipped in the ways of the people local to where They lived. Surely this would be evidence enough that people in other lands have access to the divine or else how could their dead not just manifest as mighty dead but as Gods? Some divine authority would have had to have been involved
the gods help those who help themselves - Aesop
This is for sure one of my favorite videos so far. ❤
I appreciate, in ways that I cannot sufficiently articulate, your channel immensely. The information, arguments and perspective you provide here has been invaluable as I begin exploring this new path.
The ADHD makes reading for lengthy amounts of time difficult, and creators like yourself are a lifesaver in those moments when the desire to learn is great, but the capacity for focused attention in not so much.
Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you.
I've met people that believed they were better than others to worship an exclusive German polytheist tradition, but I've never heard a polytheist invalidating other pantheons and deities.
Now that I think of it, they really were folkists, saying that only "those who were of the tradition on previous life were accepted into the current branch of tradition". Quite ironic, that only a member of said tradition can confirm if you were a member of that tradition.
It's kind of like a football cheer:
"There's only one god
He is the sun god
Ra! Ra! Ra!"
Lol
All the culture and religion that came from Proto Indo-European heritage has a single source from the wider culture of PIE, from Germany, Scandinavia and greater Europe all the way to India and Iran. Even Christianity has been somewhat influenced by PIE. To say that only one pantheon of gods is the true one not only brings you down to the Christian “one-true-god”level of morality, but ignores the historical connection of these gods from the distant past.
Saying that multiple derivatives from the same original exist separately is also ignoring the historical connection, though.
I don't think there are multiple pantheons; I think there's only one pantheon, that stories about the gods are allegorical, that the beings we refer to as say, Thor, or Jupiter, or Anubis are just one God referred to by different names across cultures.
The first deity I had appreciable contact with was from the Egyptian tradition... but as much as I love him I couldn't find my heart in those practices. I ended up in heathenry... And a member of my first hall gave me hell for worshipping outside the One True Pantheon or whatever. Come to find out he is a white supremacist of the banal and cowardly kind, the most boringly vanilla bigot I have ever encountered. I'm so glad to have gone no contact with him long ago.
Saw that pantheon pun coming from a mile away lmao. Loving all of your videos, man.
The only time I have ever heard of, one pantheon would be Christianity. I’ve never heard this from a polytheist. I can’t believe someone even said this!
Aye, another great observation here Ocean. Well done! Skål! 🍻
If i may mention something slightly off topic about something in your video, I love that bit in stroops infographic there about not owing anyone a debate. You have no obligation to explain your religion or lack thereof and have every right and capacity to say I'm not going to discuss it. I know at least here in the south we tend to have plenty of ambush evangelism and saying no and discussing it no further in my experience shuts it down a little bit faster than trying to get them to accept that you have a different belief.
Obviously only the Pantheon of gods *I* worship is real. Everyone else is objectivley wrong
Ad a follower of the germanic path, I think the while concept of vanir is proof that they're other gods from other pantheons. That's just my interpretation, of course
I believe all religions hold only part of the truth. I believe many greasy spirits exist. As a child going through foster care I grew up learning many religions. My blood family are native American spirituality and Hungarian traditional spirituality. No one religion has all the answers, they are but mere fragments of the truth distorted and fractured, like looking into a broken mirror. I am interested in hearing your point of view. I am working on a book about this.
To claim that "only one pantheon exists" as a polytheist, dishonors our ancestors which also dishonors our own present existence.
I love that you included that TikTok at the end 🤣 Great video!
As always, "Biggest Pantheon is Best Pantheon."
Alternate joke: Polytheist is Best Theist.
I’m only about five minutes in I have to take a break to run some errands. However, from what I am hearing this is absolute gold!. I’m coming from a very heavy Christian tradition. In fact I would say I’m not even out of it. I’m really just starting to question things, but one of the reasons why I’m very frustrated with Christianity is how other Christians will point to other Christians and tell them that they are going to hell because they have a false theology, I can’t tell you how many times I have heard a Presbyterian or Baptist or Lutheran or Pentecostal tell a Mormon or a seventh day or Jehovah witness that they are going to hell because they have the wrong beliefs. Even though they technically are still in the realm of Christianity. I’m loving this video. I love what you’re talking about and I’m excited to finish it. I was so excited that I had to leave this comment and I’m only a little into the video lol
I mean, it is rather self defeating. If a pagan argues that they are basically throwing all of the philosophical advantages paganism has over monotheism and kicks them out of the window.
Not being contentious, this is a serious question: What does incorporating Fortuna into your practice "within a Heathen context" look like? I too have felt drawn to specific deities from other pantheons outside of Norse Heathenry (in my case Welsh/Cornish and Hellenic), but have had difficulties in figuring out the "how-to."
doesn't comparative mythology prove that most of the pantheons from Europe through the siberia into the near east and india and even parts of north america are just taking the yamnaya culture's stories and changing the details around; theres usually a sky father that creates two twins and a cow, one twin kills the other, usually to mold them into the earth. theres a sacred tree that gives gifts of wisdom but at a price because the wisdom comes from the roots of the tree connecting to the underworld river that removes the memories from the dead and the underworld is guarded by dogs usually 3 or one 3 headed one, and the underworld has 3 witches that see\write the future, and theres a third brother who kills a dragon, usually a three headed one, usually so he can rescue that cow
Amazing video that is much needed. I feel a sort of latent Christianity is to blame for me (and many others) for the paranoia that there must "be only one" and that it is "impossible" for others to exist. As a baby pagan it was hard to overcome that paranoia that conflicted with my belief of all. I certainly have encounter polytheists who's idea of being "polytheist" is worshiping the old gods of one pantheon and claiming any other as false or not being able to validate worshiping other pantheons.
This is going to be extremally helpful to bring up when I encounter such questioning about my beliefs.
This video was very interesting. Thank you for sharing
I was about to make the same comment that others have already made. Coming from Christianity, the idea of mutually exclusive truth is deeply ingrained: “If this, then not that.” “The existence of mine negates the existence of yours.” It’s such a different mindset with polytheism, and I have a feeling it takes a good deal of work to move away from that type of monotheistic worldview.
Being a Gaelic and Norse pagan myself, I've struggled with this question, but mainly when a non-practitioner asked me which afterlife I believe is true.
Multiple Gods, why not multiple afterlives?
@@OceanKeltoi A very fair answer.
They’re all real
This is honestly the first time I heard about a heathen claiming only his gods exist - in the context of real life. Before that it's just fiction in the form of Vikings where characters like Floki insist that only the Norse gods exist and everyone else is a "false god".
So I'm wondering if these heathens I'm hearing about now in your video and in the comments below were influenced by fiction, or whether those fictional character reflect those actual people. If that makes any sense.
I am ethnically Assyrian but I feel a much stronger connection to the Norse and Germanic pantheon than the Assyrian one, yet I also don't want to completely abandon my Assyrian ancestors!
Assyrians are a Christian majority nowadays and I grew up in a Christian family but I've been interested in paganism for a very long time
I am completely new to this, so thank you very much
Thank you. Well reflected.
The idea that only one pantheon of gods exists is the strangest take one can have within polytheism, and to be somewhat I honest I think there may some sort of folkist impetus in some variations of the take. I can only imagine the applications this must have among AFA adherents.
I believe that religions exist in parallel and when you finally die you will go to where to you believe
It's so nice to be able to view your videos all together! The continuous discussion is always fantastic. The term latent christianity has been so useful in thinking about these sorts of things & has made my own world view seem so much more full & vaildated with the vocabulary and resources that you've shared.
Thank you for the well thought out, clear video.
I've always thought it is that there IS only one pantheon.
A pantheon of "overgods", who are icons or archetypes of various ideals.
For example...why do almost all dog related gods hold a position of death or afterlife gods?
Why do almost all thunder or skyfather gods seem to have something to do with serpents of some sort?
There's quite a few correlations.
Why was Apollo born in a cave, but Amaterasu sealed herself in one during an argument with her brother?
There's some kind of...relation here.
Chango of the Orisha is a thunder God who has a magic weapon that he uses to smite his enemies and is viewed as the best warrior of his people.
So aside from the people worshipping him and the whole skin tone thing... he's almost Thor.
So in my head, there is only one pantheon, they just have different types of skins they wear, almost like a variation of a video game character.
A different avatar.
They're so powerful, so vast they can only interact with us by lessening themselves to a human form.
And each people see them as their own kind.
I'm a norse pagan, but I've had one spiritual experience involving the Greek god Ares. Thus, I acknowledge the prescence of gods beyond the norse pantheon.
Thank you for sharing this video Ocean. I found it very helpful as my personal experience with different ditties has come from many different cultures without me knowing much about any of them. I try to stay away from pinning stuff down, regardless of how powerful my experience is, it would require some evidence I could prove to you. In some situations I believe I do have a form of physical proof but I would say it could still be debatable from another's perspective. Don't mean to write an essay, you have highly engaging content, which I am extremely grateful for. Thank you again Ocean, may you be blessed by the deities you hold dear, and the one I hold near as well 🙏🏽
I have this headcannon that the gods are all an energy/a force of nature personified and we all call them by a different name. Roman vs Greek gods are a great example of this but I also would say that both Zeus and Thor are both thunder by different names, or Hel, Hades, and Anubis are all death incarnate.
That isn't correct. Their tales and personalities don't match up.
As disclaimer, I am an atheist, still I never heard that regarding polytheism, since like you said it is counter productive. But maybe it is also because I have read many different mythological stories and know how various deities got integrated by various cultures. I mean basically one can see the sky father / male weather deity trope spreading from the proto Indo European origins to all over the northern hemisphere, that it would be silly to assume that any one culture who makes use of that archetype is more right than others.
It is so funny / interesting listening to you using reason on religion. I'm not an academic and I am whole unused to it being used outised Og atheists arguing against literal interpretation of this and that... Listening to a pegan spending so much time (this and other videos) on logic.
I think I have a tendency to separate my belief from logic. You have inspired me to look at it in a different light.
Thank you
Cheers from Denmark
From my reading, Europeans seem to have always seen their gods as related or comparable and even had no problem sacrificing to the gods of their enemies for advantage in battle. The pantheons seem mostly tied to a place or people. The Romans might sacrifice to the local gods because they were in those gods territory, not their own.
The personal gods across all the indo-euros were primarily tied to ancestry though. De Coulanges book The Ancient City details this extensively and is worth reading.
At the end of the year I do a burn and give sacrifice to celebrate all the gods, known and unknown in thanks for another year on earth. It’s an ahistorical rite, but I feel compelled to do it this way so I do.
Very good points!
I see connections between all religions, and not simply on a basis of human nature. I believe all these ancient polytheistic faiths (as well as the monotheistic ones to a degree) hold but a shred of some primordial truth, we all hold a piece of the puzzle if you will.
I do agree
Saying only one pantheon is real is just monotheism with extra steps.
I also agree that the consequences of holding only one pantheon as true far outweigh the benefits. Even with the case of say, "who is right about where we go when we die?" I already hold that different people may go to different places, so other people having a different idea about the afterlife doesn't really effect MY beliefs about the afterlife(s). To me, "who is right about x" is just not that important, which is where I run into trouble with people who find that question very important.
I really want to see a video on how you practice. Like maybe an alter tour if you have one or just explanation on how you practice your faith. Because in relation to other polytheist you have a unique take on why you do what you do. Ig that is to say you seem more justified since you have more detail as to why you do what you do.
Thank you, I always find your videos informative and really interesting.
Pantheon - He has his pants on.
Heathenry - Henry is on fire.
The art of "spell"ing.
My friend congrats and thanks for sharing.
I like to believe that all pantheons exist. And if you believed in one during your life, then in death you go to whatever afterlife for that pantheon. And If you didn't believe in any religion/pantheon during your life, then they could choose a afterlife that goes with a pantheon. If any are real, hopefully so.
The ancient Greeks already dealt with this question and came to a conclusion with which I identify, the gods in different pantheons are one and the same being that comes to people in the form that is best for these people and their culture
I guess you could say that a Monotheist would venerate the kitchen.
Your concern for epistemological consistency is truly noteworthy. In my efforts to do likewise I am currently a non believer.
History seems to lend credence to your position. I have only seen where a polytheist might assert their gods as more powerful, most likely before conflict; not, however, that the others were non existent. I thought that was the claim of the monotheist.
I am a wonder as to the number and practices of so many destroyed or unrecorded pantheons.
Great video, great pun. Looking forward to your philosophical presentations.
This is a beautiful video, and I bet this helps with latent Christianity. That there can only be "one true god" verses all the gods being real and just not part of our worship
The only true pantheon is obviously god, god as a spooky ghost, and god as a nice hippie. All other religions are inferior because their gods aren’t just one god wearing different hats.
And let’s also not forgot gods lovely red skinned assistant who helps him “DEAL” with the bad people. Honestly that dude doesn’t get enough appreciation, for some reason most followers of the three hats really don’t like him.
I just think all the Gods and Goddesses are real regardless which pantheon they are in. Respect from an fellow pagan ( Hellenist ).
Ocean has returned! HAIL!!!
I actually think and believe there are only one set/group of gods and goddesses and every culture/pantheon has different names for them and different jobs/roles such as Greek, norse, celtic, germanic. But it's all one set or grouof deites. And it's not their fault we humans worship them differently
Watching your videos is slowly changing my atheistic, naturalistic stance as I’m a big god of war fan and after playing the last one I literally want to pray to Heimdallr for perception against those that wish to do me harm👌🏾
There is only one Manygods, all other manygods are false.
A great discussion!
If we are asking about the original god(s) it would most Likely end in one of 3 options.
- Nature (elemental) worship
- Sun and / or moon worship
- and animism
A great opener!!! A PAN theon!!! Lol!!! The points that you bring to the table today, are very interesting...! I just had a " chat" with a ( self proclaimed monotheistic Christian)! Yup!! It got good,til we got to certain traditions , n then his
" stuff ", fell apart! We will just say the rest of the chat went in the compost toilet, quick!! I get it about shared space of the ' gods ' , but the whole of the traditions for one just being right, and others being wrong...not so much??!! I ended , just saying ... you do your's, n I will be ( right ) over here..doing mine...and we can agree, to disagree, if ya want!!?? Lol! Thanks for the food for thought...quite a feast!! [Blot]!!??
As to your outro: YES!!! it is a curse on my mind...I guess I am just a glutton for philosophy pun -ishment!!! Ok..the door out,is over here..>>>!??????
👍🐾🐺🧙♂️🐺🐾👍!
I'll be honest with you I thought the thumbnail said Patreon
I really appreciate this video, after watching days ago, it has been on my mind a lot. This opinion has really opened my eyes and led me down a path of letting go of my issues with Christianity. Even if I choose not to worship their God, I must remember that if I believe in many gods, I must be more open. Even if some Christianity denies our faith, we must take the high road and not let it ruin our lives. Thank you once again for great content!
the idea of a "one correct religion" is such an abrahamic view, to my knowledge (correct me if im wrong) there is no punishment for worshipping gods from other pantheons in any/most polytheistic viewpoints, so why should you believe only your religion is the right one?
I like to think the different creation stories are for that particular region the culture started from
The One True God is the Flying Spaghetti Monster. All other Gods exist rent free in the FSM's universe!
At least, that's what the pirates told me.
I don't see an issue of being skeptical of pantheons you haven't directly experienced.
This makes me want to mull over Myth and Religion of the North by E. O. G. Turville-Petre all over again. So much overlappage damnear worldwide. Also BTW, Amon Amarth's The Great Heathen Army LP is about to drop and they're using your catchphrase as a track.
All paths are like branches on one tree
I believe that, as a polytheist, that multiple pantheons are existent and agree that it’s a personal experience for what is practiced. Much like my practice in the reconstruction of Norse paganism and the Norse pantheon!