Diminished Scale over Dominant 7 - using a TRIAD - Q & A with Robert Renman
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Using the Diminished Scale over Dominant 7 chords works great, and here is an idea coming from this approach. We can create a major TRIAD 1.5 whole-steps below the chord we are playing over. From there, you can move this major triad in 1.5 whole-step increments (3 frets). Any of those triads can be used over a Dominant Seventh chord, due to the symmetrical nature of this scale. Cool yah?
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And the other two triads for the A7 that work similarly are the C major triad and the Eb major triad because those are the other two that are in the minor 3rd diminished sequence from the A. Lots of fun to work these into your A mixolydian or A minor penta/blues. Thanks for posting!
Yes! And playing around between the A7 and the F#dim7 itself on a solo it makes it super cool. I like to use it even in some orchestral composition for movies when I wanna get some tension
Those are both great ideas. Thank you.
You can also take all those triads and play them minor as well or mix everything up using major and minor. The natural 3 and b3 are both part of the diminished octotonic (half whole) scale, as well as the 5th and root
i always thought playing outside meant playing in my backyard! thanks for clarifying!
lol
Dang, that’s why I never got paid for my jazz gigs.
I used to hate music theory, but these days I actually really enjoy leaning theory 🧨🧠
I think it's all in how one teaches.
Some guys teach really well. Make it easy to understand, while others make it very difficult. This guy and a few others have great teaching methods. I use to hate theory too.
But now , I'm enjoying it.
I've learned so much from RUclips in the last year or so.
It's exciting. Using diminish and whole tone scales & arpeggios over dominant 7 & minor chords.
Also, improvising off passing chords. So much to learn.
I like players who play outside a bit. It's sounds cool, as long as it doesn't get too dissonant.
I like the more melodic/harmonic sound.
I have looked for ideas to Jazz up my blues for years without luck .......until now. Your lessons are the best I have found ! Thank you Robert !
if you learn the scales and mode in them..You aint playing outside of nothing.lol
The DOMINANT pentatonic R...x....2...x...3...............5................b7...x.....R
It's 5th mode is R............b3...x....4..x....5....x....6...................R
Leading tone MODEs from the parallel scales....
The b4 has the same pitch as maj3
loc b4. bb7 = Harmonic minor
loc b4 = melodic minor
phry b4 = Lydian b3 ...............Lydian b3 = IV of Harmonic MAJOR
loc b4, bb6 = melodic minor b5
Harmonic minor b5 = III mode of Hungarian MAJOR
Hungarian MAJOR = #2, #4, b7 or Mix #2, #4..or Lydian dominant #2
Harmonic minor b2 or Melodic minor b2.
You can easily alter the b2 chord to whatever.
The harmonic Minor, Harmonic MAJOR, Hungarian MAJOR, Meldoic minor b5
ALL HAVE POSSIBLE FULL DIMINISHED in them.
I listed them for REASONS....
example...The melodic minor DO NOTE have FULL diminished in it.
The Melodic minor b5 dose....
you'll get Lydian dominant b2
I showed you the Dorainish pentatonic for REASON
It has....1 ,b3, 5, 6....in it.
Dorian #4
Dorian b5
Dorian b2, #4
Dorian b2. b4........you now can also make the II chord of meldoic minor Dominant
The lydian ish mode....showing it you'll know you can alter it to Minor, dominant
or FULL diminised
Lydian #2
Lydian b7.....aka lydian domiant
lydian #2, b7
Lydian b2, b7
All these modes exist from scales people created centuries ago. Nothing new
or exotic about them.
You can modulate like this....from C Major/A Minor
Play the C# note = Dorian with LEADING TONE = D melodic minor
or Play the G# note = A Harmonic minor
( b6 ) HArmonic minor....
In other words....C# and G# = A Harmonic MAJOR
while in D melodic minor the A7 is mix b6
Harmonic MAJOR is just Mix b6 with a LEADING TONE
or the Mix b6 is just aeo wtih MAj3..
kind of like the dorian vs Mix.....b3 or maj3
aeo b5 is the VI mode of melodic minor
Harmonic minor b5 is just aeo b5 with a LEADING TONE.
When you modulate like that...the D minor is now Lydian b3 the E is Mix b2
If you play D melodic minor b5...it would be E dorian b2, b4
The parallel scales ALL WORK together to help you push or pull anyway you want
If you play (N6)...harmonic minor b2 or melodic minor b2
If you play the Bb as maj7....it'll help you shift to D min....G minor...or C minor
which is like cycling down to the forth....F, Bb, Eb
1........2..........3..4..........5............6.............7...8
the five missing notes....b3, b6,b7......b2, b5
b6 = Harmonic MAJOR
b3 = melodic minor
b3, b6 = Harmonic minor
Harmonic /melodic minor ...b5
Harmonic/melodic minor ...b2
harmonic minor #4
melodic minor #4 = Lydian b3
There's only 12 notes....you cant play outside of those 12 notes..unless you install extra frets.lmao
@@oneeyemonster3262 that was ridiculous
@@alamooji3716 Like this...DORK
How da fuck can you play jazz without knowing this SIMPLE SHIT....
Play the DOMINANT PENTATONIC over the LYDIAN DOMINANT
the third mode is R.........b3.........b5........b6............b7
as in Aeo b5
or over the Mix b6
As in... LOC b4 or fucken ALTENATIVE Jazzy ass term mode
and stop wearing out the god damn scale..it sound the SAME..like
the rest of the jazzy ass guitar players.lmao
Geesus...as if all b3 interval is rocket science. U aint in sunday school..FFS
@@alamooji3716 or like this....The 5th from G7 is D dorian
The 5th from D lydian dominant = A melodic min dorian with leading tone.
the 5th from E Mix b6 = B dorian b2
Oki doke....
@@alamooji3716 incase you're still SLOW..
when you play dorain b2 and maj7..
it's fucken Melodic min b2....Aka NeoPolymamrous..N de fffffken 6.lmao
54 seconds into the video, and I already love this guy, can't wait to see the rest!
Robert , Nice playing and good job explaining this. You slowed it down enough for us to grasp. A lot of teachers don't get how important it is to do that! Thanks FF
Finally, I got it. I've been trying to figure that out forever.Best lesson ever on diminished. 😊😊😊😊
Well done. I love diminished scales and chords. They make classy sophisticated turns.
It's like the relative minor chord, but turned into a Major chord.
I never thought of it this way before. Thank you..
If you were playing an A major chord F# would be the relative minor. But you're playing an A dominant - the 5th of D - which means you're actually playing in D major and the F# is the 3 minor... turned into a major chord. I'm not meaning to be picking at minutiae but if you recognize eacg dominant chord as the "5 of" it's major key you open up a myriad of soloing possibilities - E Dorian works on an A dominant as does F# Phrygian, G Lydian and so on. In addition to the diminished scale demonstrated here, you can really spice up your blues playing by thinking of the dominant in terms of its relative major key. Cheers!
@Brent Pulford : Just came back to this lesson, because it's one of Robert's more advanced lessons, to find your gem of a comment. Please don't feel sorry for going into detail at all though, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm always looking for these days. So thank you very much for taking the time to reply in detail.
I taught myself all the modes of the Major scale long ago. So I understand that E dorian, F# phrygian and G lydian (along with A mixolydian, B aeolian, and C# locrian) are all contained within D Major, and how they work so well with an A dominant chord, but there's still no Major third in the F# chord of those modes. It's how turning that F# minor into a Major works so well that I don't quite get, but love the sound of.
Is it perhaps because our ears are sort of fooled into hearing something part way in between a half step passing tone (the flat 9 in this case) and the relative minor chord that it sounds so good? I'm still at a loss for this one, but (like many things) using it regardless ofc, lols.
In any case, if you (or someone else who knows) happens to read this, it would be an awesome bit of knowledge to have. Thanks in advance.
I think the answer is Tension. The F# major triad here is part of the diminished scale. That’s what creates tension and makes you ears twist a bit. 😊
Definitely cool stuff. Most players I listen to use this kind of thing very sparingly though. Just as little accents here and there.
We were taught to call the “half-whole scale” the Symmetrical Dominant scale. It is the one and only “mode” of the Diminished scale.
It’s formula is: 1-b9-#9-3-#11-5-13-b7.
(Notice that it has 8 notes.)
Good for a chord with b9-#9-#11-13!
We call the 2-4-6’s by their up-an-octave names because that gives us more useful information.
- Another useful scale is the Altered Dominant scale; its formula is: 1-b9-#9-3-b5-#5-b7.
It is the 7th mode of the Melodic Minor scale. (Notice that is has 7 notes.)
Good for a chord with b9-#9-b5-#5.
- Thanks for a great lesson!
Awesome lesson.👍 I really like the camera angle on the guitar neck as you play. This is superior to reading TAB because we actually see how the riff is played and we can also slow it down with the speed control under settings .
Diminished scale is mathematically perfect ^^ my favourite sounding too.
Great lesson with cool examples pf its applications in a typical 1-4-5 jam. That Strat also being played by expert doesn't hurt either!
That Stratocaster is one of the most beautiful ones I ever seen! And it sounds great too!
Good stuff been listening for over 5 years always good
Great tip! Thanks Robert
It sounds nice as you play and they combine nicely, different styles on the guitar, and in this clip you blended that blues and jazz in the right way.
Thanks!
Thanks Robert, for tying together bits and pieces for me. James
Thank you very much Robert! This lesson goes a long way!
+TheYearThree Thanks!
I knew this but didn’t know what it was. Killer
Sounds absolutely beautiful. Thank you so much! I like that it's not just randomly out, but the connection can be heard.
Adim7 Bbdim7 Cdim7 C#dim7 etc. arpeggios make for some blazing fast diminished runs. Great when you want to get that entire half whole scale in a short time before you fall back inside. Let's face it, you've got 1 bar usually to develop and bail out before it starts sounding weird. I like ascend on one descend on the next etc. So many ideas...
you can definitely hear the Oz Noy in that first one. nice tips
Great hip idea, Robert, Thanks.
Yep. I concur. Great lesson plus user friendly presentation style. Definitely sub-worthy. Thanks!
Glad to hear, thank you.
The lessons are so good for learning how to integrate diminished coulor in blues but also love so much your playing.
+Canel Wine Pear Thank you so much!
FANTASTIC, thanks for sharing!!
Glad you like it!
You are my voice. Thank you for all the help.
Excellent Robert. Absolutely brilliant!
Rob - thanks for this insight! I really picked up some interesting perspectives. Thx !
fantastic lesson
Another cool bit to slip in is the minPentatocic from a minor third higher so in A it would be Cmin pent just a tiny bit
Hey I really liked this, I taught my self mostly by ear and I can really see you don't need to have too much theory to understand this lesson. Thanks much bro!
+the empyrean Glad to hear!
Well done!!! Don't stop... I've more to learn!
I have been studying the Johnny Smith method of learning all the diminished arpeggios and all the diminished scales. It has been a bit of a beating as he uses both bass clef and treble clef in each exercise. Thank-you for showing me the F# major arpeggio against the A7 chord. I could play it instantly. What a wonderful workaround!
Love it! I'm a pianist, but this is very helpful for me as well.
Brenda Martin
I thought pianist knew these kind of stuff from the start.
Great lesson 🔥🙌🏾😎💫 I’ll come back to this in a few years 😄🙈🎸
Always good stuff Robert, thx brother
Thanks for watching
Great stuff. Thanks
Awesome tip! Very cool superimposed triad.
Easy and cool. Thanks for the tip!
Another awesome lesson to improve the blues ! Thank You...!!!
Thank you ....excellent lesson !
You are welcome!
0:34 i laughed like hell! Damn that was great man!
Always great lessons and playing Robert. Thank you.
Thanks for listening
I like you're lessons. Very easy to understand and applicable to any situation.
Nice stuff Dude!! Thank you for sharing this!
Glad you liked it!
Brilliant. Magic fingering' mastering the ' fretboard.. 🎇🎇🎇🎇🎇
Many thanks!
that is so cool! u have a great blues feel & tasty style,2 the first order👍 thank u 4 sharing!
Playing a diminished tone half way through a blues song sounds too fusion/jazz. Not my taste but certainly someone else's. The sweetest spot to play a diminished scale/triad in a blues song is right on the 12th bar, before the progression resolves back to the root chord. Robert Ford is a master at this musical prowess.
Great video Robert, thanks for sharing.
Got ya! Loved it! Thanks!!!!
Rock on!
It looks like your playing an F# dim scale (half/whole step) starting from the third note A of the scale then Bb,C,C# on the high E string and making an arpeggio to F# of the low E and then working your way back up the strings. Hope that's right! Lol. Anyway, I played it on an A7 vamp using the blues scale with the F# dim. scale arpeggio. Sounds awesome, Great lesson. Made me a subscriber!
A great video & it's sparking all kinds of ideas. Such as, exercises on using each chord tone in the major triad & figuring out how to resolve to a chord tone of the target chord.
+James Robinson Thanks James!
Thanks. You are a great teacher.
Please keep it up! I love learning new stuff!! Feels so good!!
I don't understand this yet, but I know this is amazing. 👍👍👍
That is the exact feeling I have rn xD
If you know what relative chords are, then you're halfway there. It's like if you're playing a C Major, then A minor is your relative minor, because they both are the exact same key (C, D, E, F, G, A, B and A, B, C, D, E, F, G).
The only difference here is he's making the relative minor into a Major chord also. And instead of playing the F# on the 2nd fret like a normal barre chord, he's playing the F# chord using the "D shape" up on the 6th fret.
Fantastic, Thank You 👏
Welcome!
thanks... its help me a lot!!!
Thanks Robert.
Great lesson. Great trick. Got to learn it.
Can you make a A° chord as G#M I couldn't sight any poly chord formations. Though an A° scale is it possible in Music theory, or do some sounds not mix well with others?
Great Lesson!
Glad you liked it!
Good job!
Very nice tone and playing!
lovely lesson!!! such a nice touch on the guitar... very knowledgeable and describe it well.. I am a drummer learning guitar and having a blast doing so... Your Guitars are beautiful as well...
Nice tone!
Loved it
Grate lesson ♥️
Thank you
A Bb C Db Eb E Gb G - A half whole diminished scale. You can also play the C and Eb major chords over the A7 like Robert shows here. :)
Fantastic session 👏…I love this stuff 💙….straight to the vocabulary 👉🏻💥
Glad you enjoyed it
Hey there friend, that sounds awesome, n great job of breaking it down. You rock my brother, n thank you for sharing that. Can't wait to use it . Sat nite lol😁👍👍👍
Thank you for this, Robert Renman - informative, helpful and very musical … !
Robert your a great player. That is right in line with our beloved Robben Ford!! Do more on this. This is where tasty rubber hits the road.
"Hipper than eveeeeeeer." Thanks for the awesome lesson!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Robert, your lessons are top shelf. Thank you!
Thanks a lot!
Good one! I'm gonna try that~!
Have fun!
Wow so helpful and understandable.Thank you so much.
Thank u very much
What a Professor, what a feeling, ideas...aproach...wonderfull. Thanks, super.
+Martin Glavaš Thank you.
Your lessons are great and very very helpful. I really appreciate them.
Gregg Stallings Thanks!
So the Major triad to solo over the A7 chord is F# maj. { F#, A#, C#}. Intervals then from an "A root" perspective is the 6, b9, and the 3rd. So the characteristic 'outside' note is the b2/b9 , and to a lesser degree the ma6/13 within context of an A7 chord? Thank you for another great lesson.
That’s right! This is just one small snapshot of a much bigger picture.
hi Robert; thanks for that. You're right it does sound good!
If you are playing that triad over A but in A# it is an Ab9 chord it is also a D b9 thats why it resolves. If I see it correctly. It is in key. Either way it does grab the ear................ I like it
Great stuff Robert.
Robert u r super duper hero...u r so much talented y don't u compose something a song or instrumental etc I want to hear ur song...
that was one hell of a lesson man, cheers for that!
You earned my sub ! this lesson was great, helped me a lot
Thanks, glad to hear!
Great job! Very clear and useful to improve my palying. Thanks!
+Claudio Pereira Thank you.
Thé best teacher
This helped a lot in using the diminished scale! thanks!!
Glad to hear!
why does playing in fmajor give you that hip sound? what is the relationship to the A7 and D7 chords? forgive me if I am missing something. Thanks
Fantastic lesson brother!!!!
Thank you kindly!
Cool Riff Rob
Thanks your vids are so helpful keep up the good work!
Dean botts Thank you.
Amazing!!! Blows My mind! Thanks!! Salutes from brazil
great idea!! sounds very nice
Hi, this reminds me of (outside) A jazz blues turnaround Ebm7-F#7b5-B9-E7... :)
Nicely done, Robert!
thankee!!
Thanks Robert
Subscribed!! I love that your videos don't waste time on stuff that someone looking at the concept featured in the video should already know. In other words, someone looking up application of diminished does not need 10 minutes on which notes are in the blues or pentatonic scale, so thank you for not spending a bunch of time on that. Perfect instructions for middle of the road players like me that can play ok, but are looking to get hipper and expand their vocabulary. Am I correct in assuming that from a dominant chord I can play a hw diminished from the root? It will take me some time (probably forever) to play as hip as you do, but this really helped me understand something that I just couldn't get my head around.
Thanks! On dominant chords, you start with a half step, yes.