If it's anything like being in a sensory deprivation tank, it would definitely be weird. With the body actually missing though, I'd worry about something along the lines of phantom limb syndrome being an issue.
@@nameofthegame9664 I suppose the had still the heads around them... How do you extract a brain without interrupting bloodflow and/or causing massive emorragies?
Imagine waking up and having a stranger's head attached to you, or you attached to a stranger's body. Or waking up and not having a body at all. Can't imagine what those animals were going through
It baffles me how arrogant some people are thinking this is somehow justified. They call it "the greater good". We must not progress at the expense of our own humanity. This really made me sad. I'm off to watch a comedy now 😅
@@MadMax-dp2bb let's analyze it, you basically "kills" the person whoose head is going to be transplanted, you straight up kill the host and the Best thing you can get is a tetraplegic person who is probably going to die pretty soon that's fucking fucked up!
Heart transplants are common , what is wrong with using a dead body to to give a paraplegic a full set of useable limbs , we have face transplants for burn victims and also arm transplants ,once the body is dead we can use so much from the dead person to help people , liver transplants , eye transplants , do you all really think the dead body feels the emotions of the person in once lived in , how , the person has died , only the person is dead , the body is still useful
What's nightmarish about this, to me at least, is to imagine what must be going on in the monkey's thoughts. From what I understand of it, it sounds like the body itself wasn't being kept alive by the brain's signals to the muscles, but rather by mechanical processes which kept the lungs and heart working. So this isn't so much of a "head transplant" as it was hooking a head up to what was essentially a biological machine that kept it alive. The body it was hooked up to was little more than a life support system that kept the brain active. But think about this for a second... that means that the monkey's brain would be trying to tell it to do the things it normally would, but it wouldn't be able to. It would try to breathe, but it has no lungs with which to take a breath. It would try to move, but it's not actually connected to the muscles of the body, so nothing would happen. It could just... observe its surroundings and respond to stimuli on its face. That sounds like hell.
The most bizzare part is the brain isn't solely responsible for the panic response. A large part of the feeling of panic is from your bodies reaction. So what would that feel like? The adrenal glands aren't located in the brain, they are located in the torso. So there would be no adrenaline, no feeling of your heart beating quickly, no hyperventilating. But obviously your brain would try to panic, but could it even? Even the fear and panic from being in that situation would feel strange and confusing.
I think it'd be a very surreal and more extreme version of the phantom limb syndrome, except it's an entire body. Imagine feeling like you have an itch on your leg, but even if you could command your new body to scratch it you'll always feel that itch. It would take a very long time to get used to that feeling, and it would drive nearly everyone insane to some extent.
@losmmn loserman The monkeys were specifically chosen because their brains are similar to humans. Humans aren't unique in feeling most of the things mentioned, in fact many of them are some of the most basic responses to stimuli. The only thing animals might not experience is phantom limbs, but I think it's more likely they just can't communicate it. Animals are a lot more complex than you think.
Imagine you are about to get brain surgery and you're scared, and the surgeon says "oh don't worry, i once did a head transplant, this will be super easy"
Honestly, the dog experiments freak me out more. Not just because it involved dogs, but because thinking about how either dog must have felt is horrifying. Imagine waking up with a stranger attached to your body or waking up as a disembodied head attached to another creature. It's the stuff of nightmares.
Imagine being a conscious brain without any link to sensory organs or anything that's actually horrific. No nerves or breathing or hearing just alive but nowhere.
@@Broken_Orbital how is being aware without any connection to any sense without the comfort of the context of a room or the sense of connection to your body unable to affect anything like a dream, you'd just be trapped nowhere but able to think without any way to express your panic
@@legowoshi you kinda just answered your own question... Dreams are literally just your brain actively working without being in control of your body. That's not much different than a brain actively working without being in control of a body.
@@Broken_Orbital what they would be fully aware though at least for a short time, the consciousness is fully preserved but it would sort of be like paralysis
@@Broken_Orbital if I took you and made you unable to affect any parts of your body except your brain you wouldn't just start dreaming you'd still be aware but unable to do anything except think
@@Slapnuts9627 Taking into account their high fertility and mortality rate, yes. I would still argue that using the lives of rats and mice for science is unethical despite how insignificant people think they are.
Actually the monkey doesn’t look afraid, just borderline between life and death and as if it’s not fully aware of what the heck is going on and I hope it didn’t have long term memory functions
Just imagine, a group of seemingly omnipotent, semi-bald, big-headed giants abducted your ansectors so now you just gotta be a head with no body for a day and a half while in unimaginable anguish numbed heavily by a magical mystery serum completely erasing what remaining senses you had left, given to you forcefully by the aforementioned giants as everything you knew in your short life as a Rhesus monkey in a strange, angular cave in which said giants keep you and your relatives ceases to exist and you never experience life as a monkey again, that being your final conscious state as a living being.
Thats from the viewpoint of a human trying to imagine what such a monkey would see and think, it probably wont be like that for the monkey, but I'm sure pain and confusion would be involved. Regardless of whether you have thoughts or can understand (in a way) whats happening, you will feel pain because you're alive and not numbed. And you would probably want to be in your old fucking body, right? The unethical part for me is when someone is awake and feels pain, they are probably in a state of shock. We wouldn't do it to a human under normal circumstances assuming we dont have a mental illness, but since it's a monkey or another animal it's okay.
@@JohnSmith-hq6fl one time My head was getting crushed. Didn’t feel pain, it was like everything was weird. Probably didn’t reach the point where intense pain would of been in that case. Think my brain was having issues processing what the heck was going on. The body is a strange thing.
@@whitedragoness23 Jesus, I'm sorry that you went through something like that! A curious part of me wants to ask what and why happened, but the squeamish side is like oh my lord please don't think about it, don't ask. Not to mention, it might be something you wouldn't want to talk about, so I'm kinda not sure if I should ask or not... So uh, yeah, sorry if asking about it is wrong, but I'm really curious and have some issues with interpersonal interactions, so I don't know where the boundary in this case is o:
There's something incredibly disturbing about this, honestly, especially the isolated brain transplants. It's pretty much impossible to know whether an isolated brain remains conscious, but if so, that idea is absolutely terrifying.
@@darrenmuse and the ways we fight epidemics has been greatly enhanced by Japanese experiments where they bombarded Chinese cities with biological weapons just to see what would happen.
I think that scientist should be more open to doing experimental crazy tests.. The greatest scientists who ever lived probably didn't care a lot about morals!
@@anastasia5756 I'm pretty sure they meant that unethical/questionably ethical experiments, especially on animals, were a dime a dozen in the 70s, so asking if it was unethical is somewhat redundant by nature Aka, it was a jab at the period, not saying the period made it more ethical
The key problem with this branch of medicine is that even the most recent attempts to make progress don't even bother trying to re-establish any sort of nervous system connections. They can just barely reconnect essential blood supply and combat immune system rejection, so far they aren't even trying to link up sensory connections. It's like firing manned space flight missions into orbit before you've figured out how to pressure seal the interior of a cockpit. First we need to figure out how to repair spinal cord injuries properly, THEN we can think about brain/head transplants in extreme circumstances.
Thats a good point. The only two scenarios I can imagine this being useful is someone with unbelievably horrific body injuries that didnt affect the head, and massive spinal cord damage on the donor body. Either way, who wants to live as a quadriplegic, may as well try to keep a head alive in a jar. Also, the unbelivably complex ethical rammifications of essentially live organ donation. The only body donors possible would be coma patients, meaning youd have to physically murder them rather than just let them die naturally. Seems like a cart before the horse scenario on many levels
Right? And they only "lived" For 6-15 hours max. With those results with such high cruelty is unethical imo. If they were trying to figure out how the monkey can live comfortably this would be a different story. This is just some low class Frankenstein shit.
@@skeetsmcgrew3282 you act like that isn't what is already happening with organ donation. If you believe in brain death it's all the same whether you only take the major organs or the whole damn body. Also kinda ableist to devalue the lives of quadriplegic people like that. They're lives have value too and deserve to be saved. Lastly.. Stephan Hawking, would probably still be alive if we had transplanted his head off his failing body with minimal quality of life loss at that point in his disease.
@@voidofspaceandtime4684 Feel free to show all of us exactly where they list Stephen Hawking's accomplishments as an example - we both know they did nothing of the sort. You are grossly misrepresenting what they said, both about able-ism and about Stephen Hawking. (Which were quite clearly two separate and unrelated statements.)
Yes, but also why not just figure out how to fix the fucking spin and call it a day. This is just freaks getting bored and getting a hold on money to play with.
The hardest part of a brain transplant would be the reconnection of nerves imo. Especially to the extent of regaining full functionality of the whole body.
Agreed, neural tissue is slow to regrow if it does at all. They focused on the monkeys facial movements [Crainal Nerve 7.] Since the incision point was at Cervical nerve 5 it makes sense those areas above the cut are not going to be affected. My question is, once the spinal column and thus the spinal cord was severed on both subjects. and they were frankeinstiened back together was any voluntary movement in the body noticed...? I assumed the body was being kept alive with Machines beating the heart and such. but with signals not getting to or from the control centre in the brain [thalamus and hypothalamus] to maintain body homeostasis then all they really accomplished was creating a quadriplegic monkey.
As an animal lover myself, I have some thoughts about this… Animal testing is a whole can of worms that is understandably hard to talk about. I’m a bioengineer, and so my field has to work with lab animals probably more than any other. I cant imagine the type of life those poor dogs and monkeys lived as test subjects in premodern medicine, but now, there are strict regulations to protect lab animals. You have to have a clear plan for what will be done and explanation as to why it is necessary. In addition, you have to use the minimum possible number of animals, and provide them with clean and large enough enclosures, clean food and water, proper veterinary care, stimulating toys, places to run around, etc. and when doing experiments, you have to give anesthetics unless its absolutely impossible to do so. And prolonged suffering must be avoided at all costs. Its unfortunate that we still have to use animals for experiments, but at the time being there aren’t suitable analogues that would mimic bodily responses to things accurately. I’d agree that this experiment is probably a 5 or 6 on the scale because While I imagine these creatures were treated horribly, I know this work had huge impacts on both neuroscience and making people aware that lab animals needed better treatment.
@@sparkling925 Why not experiment on convicted criminals on death row? Like murderers n such. They killed/tormented ppl they might as well be used to benefit society. It's just a thought though. And it's not something I would personally call inhumane but that might just be me.
@@hellodumplings8564 cockroaches are pretty cute though, a fair bit of people have them as pets actually. and worms are just little wiggling pink tubes, what's so disgusting about them?
Cadaver research used to be considered ethically and morally abhorrent. But look where that research has gotten us. It's not pretty, but few things in life are. Fact is, these test subjects led a much better life than a farmed animal. This wasn't cruel or sadistic. Ugly, but the research led to successful organ transportation. Weigh 100,000 people dying a slow and painful death due to renal failure. Now you could have prevented that with experimentation on a dozen or 2 animals. Which is more cruel?
i'm not criticizing the scientist, i didn't even mention the scientist. i'm saying that a procedure that prolongs the subject's life by only two days does not sound succesful, since usually the point of surgery is to prolong life as long as possible. frankly it was a joke, but please keep explaining this to me like we didn't all watch the same video.
I'm glad that the 2017 transplant never happened, I read into it some more and found that the Doctor's main volunteer actually backed out after thinking on it more. The guy has a wife and kid so I'm glad he didn't take such a massive risk; for their sakes.
The volunteer wasn't fully functional. They were essentially a head attached to a malfunctioning body. Yes he had family, but his quality of life is essentially nil. I believe he got cold feet because he believed he would lose what little functionality he still retained if things went wrong and would simply become a disembodied head.
@@anonymousplanetfambly4598 fill me in on the 2017 transplant? Not related to what anyone has said here but I've never heard of it and was going through a lot during that time, so even if I did hear of it I wouldn't be able to remember it (memory loss). It just sounds interesting to me
Reality can often be more terrifying than fiction. Morally repugnant as this was, it did advance medical knowledge significantly to the point were as a consequence, thousands possibly tens to hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved/extended/improved.
@@sonacphotos Technically speaking you're correct and head transplants could very well be possible in a further future but those experiments are still nightmare fuel.
@@sonacphotos very interesting potentially very useful. Good to understand the information and how it’s done but I don’t think humans should go much further into playing god tbh 😂😂😂 guess I’ve seen too many sci-fi horror movies. Also I love monke
@@sonacphotos I'm sorry but I feel this is just too cruel. I would rather be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life than put another living thing through this nightmare. Progression is good but it is it always necessary at the expense of others? I dont feel it is.
@@MadMax-dp2bb I geuss there's many different people, because out of all the people I've asked, a good amount would rather kill another living being, human or not. Then live the rest of there lives in a wheelchair.
So glad I found this page. first time I've seen someone discussing topics like this while preserving it as a psychology case study AND horror/disaster content simultaneously.
@@bazooka93 sorry but I watched it and it’s no worse than any nature documentary... secret of NIHM has a ton of darker implications... “we can no longer live... as rats... we KNOW too much...” Brisby:.... 😳
While yes, this is the stuff of nightmares, I’m amazed that the monkeys even lived at all, much more that they lived as long as they did, even eat at all, and in the end, neither suffered brain damage. It’s awesome in the most literal sense of the word with a horrible sickening twist
@@allanredhill8682 sapient* sentience is any form of intelligence, whether that be fission bombs, or the ability to recognize food and water. Sapient beings are like us.
I mean, to be fair, shouldn’t we think that way for cows/pigs? Pigs are extremely intelligent and if it’s so horrific for a dog why can’t it be seen the same for other animals? (This is not coming from a vegan lol)
Man this is gonna sound fucked up but it's pretty amazing how bodies can sorta just do that. It's pretty weird to think that all of those eldritch masses of flesh seen in horror media could in theory be done with enough trial and error. Curiosity is a dangerous thing.
While ethically questionable it's interesting that they attempted this and were even successful to an extend. Would be awesome if you can cover more topics like these, I think it's a great addition to your content.
Another unethical experiment the Russians tired was making a human chimp hybrid but it was in the 50 I think so DNA wasn’t even known so gene splicing wasn’t a thing. The carzy thing is if we wanted to we would be able to now. I’m curious how a ape man hybrid would look/ think act but That’d be super fucked up to do so I’m fine with just using my imagination lol.
@John Flower Cruel as these experiments may be, they are important to understand science. Eventually you might be able to transplant the head of someone who is severly bodily ill unto the body of a person who is braindead and, given some more advances in neurosurgery for nerve connection, at least give that one person a new body, a new life.
@@theangriestcatintheworld I don’t think Bigfoot but it made me think.if we created a ape human hybrid would we treat it like a animal or human or if we found an intelligent ape species would how would we treat them. Humans can be the most compassionate and kind or most evil and cruel obviously depend on the person or group of people.
Purely as a thought experiment, I wonder how much further we would be in medicine if we had no ethical roadblocks in place. I mean it would be naivé to say that we wouldn’t be further along, its really a question of how much and how much greater the cost would be.
Jesus christ. Scientists scare me, and I'm a professional scientist. It's about an 8. To get to 9 it would need to be on people, to get to 10 it just needs to be on unwilling people.
Bro. 11. Thats an 11. And I'm super mad that science almost has to do this to make progress. Like, even if you theoretically make it work over and over again you only know if it truly works once you try it. The question is should you try it. And that's very difficult to answer. If it could give people the ability to escape a wheelchair, okay. But would a person even want another person's entire body. Could you in the future maybe synthetically grow bodies and attach human heads? Imagine trans people could literally translate over to their gender and even choose the type of body they want... Its a very ethically difficult topic
This might sound really messed up but I believe we should replace capital punishment with human experimentation. Like I feel bad for the animals because we cant judge them so for the most part their innocent but say there is like a child rapist murderer, I would not feel bad if they were experimented on especially if they ended up messed up or dead because they wouldve died to the death penalty either way and theyre also horrible people. I especially think this should be the case because say something like experimental cancer cures or something of that nature were being tested, that would greatly benefit humanity.
@@JR-me7yk The issue is that a lot of people in jail are actually innocent. I can’t remember his name but a man was killed by our government despite the actual murderer clearing the man’s name.
I know I will get lot of hate but *Is it moral to let millions suffer when a suffering of a few animal could show the path to their salvation?* We already kill billions of animal for fun and food
This feels like a 10 to me. It was beneficial for our future, but it killed so many animals. The monkey at 7:33 will probably forever haunt me. He's so terrified and he died for something he didn't care about.
@ginamm7393 Sorry I took so long to reply. Also had to rewatch the video since it was 2 years old, but I THINK I was talking about 0:55? He mentions how theoretically, it would allow paraplegic people to walk and it could benefit disabled people.
Imagine if aliens abducted humans to chop off and restitch their heads bruh. That’s probably what it’s like for these animal dudes. I feel so bad for them
@@bacicinvatteneaca yes actually. I'd prefer if itd be done on humans who were in jail for things like murder/manslaughter, rape, pedophilia, you get my drift?
I was already familiar with these experiments and skipped the dog part because I'm going through some stuff right now, so my thoughts are only in relation to the monkey side of the experiment. Ethically, I don't have a problem with this experiment, and that is due to the way these monkeys were cared for while in the hands of these researchers. From the pictures and videos, the monkeys looked healthy and happy pre-surgery. During surgery, they were anesthetized, given anti-rejection meds, antibiotics, and, presumably, painkillers. I'm not 100% sure about the painkillers, but if they hadn't been administered, the monkeys would have been panicking on awakening, not calmly eating fruit. Post-surgery, their lives were short, but again: they were cared for, studied, and a great deal was learned through this procedure, experiment, and their sacrifice. No one is perfect and no experiment is perfect, but I think the most important part is that we do our best to provide the best care possible based on our knowledge at the time.
They weren’t eating fruit they had no stomach. That was ice being forced into its mouth. Also these monkeys are stolen from their mothers and raised in cages never to see the sun or interact with other monkeys. You saw a 2 second clip and made a ton of assumptions.
@@pinkdoll3578 I stated that I was familiar with these experiments and that prior familiarity includes the knowledge that this monkey was able to chew and swallow food. The monkey did have a stomach, since its head was attached to the other's body. Animals can be raised and live quite happily in captivity, though the exact origins of these monkeys is unknown. Yes, I made the assumption that these monkeys were reasonably healthy, because anesthesia can not be administered to unhealthy individuals for fear of killing them. For example: This is seen in morbidly obese patients who choose to have weight-loss surgery - they have to attain a weight goal in order for the operation to go ahead. If they do not, simply putting them under will likely kill them.
@@pinkdoll3578 as much as I love your cause the OP of this Comment is right, your going off our own assumptions though and that’s not healthy.. it could also get you in trouble, I would reread OP’s comment before saying something okay?
Btw, I love have you gave background knowledge, this is amazing and as bad as it is I heard a lot of positives come out of it, Science isn’t always ethical but it’s helpful
@@user-ns3xq5sq7g Get me in trouble? With who?… "I remember that the head would wake up, the facial expressions looked like terrible pain and confusion and anxiety." That’s a quote from Jerry Silver who worked alongside White during the experiment. Even IF this fantasy COULD have worked transferring an entire body would cost the receiver around 13 million dollars. Besides the fact that the donors body’s could save multiple people instead of just one. This experiment helped NO ONE and was NOT carried out in a way that was even remotely humane. Also when the spinal chord is detached you lose all function of the lower body ie the stomach. It couldn’t even breathe without a much one. Get your facts straight. Also the one of the dogs used in the previous experiment was a puppy. If you can glean positives from this you are sick and just plain incorrect.
@@sysbofh no he's talking about some of the other experiments conducted. They only tried to keep the brain alive. Literally just a brain sitting on a table being kept alive. Unable to see, hear, taste, feel. They were able to keep the brains alive for awhile and record that they were conscious.. albeit freaking the fuck out.
The various ones with dogs make me sad because doggos are the light of the world. But the monkey creeps me out because there's a nonzero chance that it was able to detect that it was atached to a body that was not in fact its own body. And there's just no way to go explaining that to a monkey.
"Science is humanity's most efficient tool towards progress, but it is easy to become narrow minded pursuing a result --when that happens it is important to take a step back from the lab, and look into something just as equally important... like ethics." My chemistry professor about unorthodox (borderline cruel) research methods. As a science major and human being I'll never forget those words. So for me that experiment gets a 9 since it did help further research about organ transplantation but honestly wtf
I imagine that given time the nerves would attach themselves the way veins eventually do when reattaching a body part. And I know there are plenty ofsuccessful lung and heart transplants, but of which require attachment to the nervous system to function. they might have even reattached themselves in this case given that the monkey's heart clearly worked. Or more likely they just found a way to attach the spine
For some people being a quadriplegic would still be better than death. The guy who wanted the Italian surgeon to carry out his head transplant in 2017 did so because his own body is dying and is already near useless, his head is effectively attached to a useless, dying piece of meat - so attaching it to a useless, living piece of meat would be a step up. Your body is not just your limbs, it is also your life support system, if the body dies then the brain starves.
@@MOE13576 Ok, good, because any of the million scenarios in which I end up dead would, in my amateur opinion, feel exactly the same from the first person perspective.
The biggest hurdle is how to reconnect the severed spinal cord. Given the number of neurons severed, I can imagine regaining control of the host body. Hence I imagine a biomechanical body might be an easier host, at least in the near future.
You should do an episode on the swedish tooth experiments, they are the lead reason for our great tooth health today but the cost was hundreds of humans suffering for several years
i think converting this series into podcast form would be really helpful! personally i love learning about this stuff but i tend to watch these with my phone flipped over while i do homework, but youtube zaps my battery and it’s annoying to constantly have it open, but i love these videos and appreciate your work greatly
“As such I’m going to rate this a....” me : this has to be an 11 this is insane Plain: “ it’s 6 because I’m squeamish” *what in gods name is a 10 then*
Probably what Japanese scientists did to Chinese prisoners during the second world war This included freezing limbs and smashing them, shock therapy, purposely giving them STIs, taking out organs to see how long they survived (all of these done while the victims were perfectly concious by the way) etc, etc The sad news is, this is actually what helped western medicine improve so much in so little time, because the results of these experiments had to be given to Americans in agreement to the Japanese army surrendering Edit: Nvm someone commented Unit 731 before me, I'd forgotten the name of the experiments but yeah, what I described was Unit 731
There's no such thing as a "head transplant" when it comes to vertebrates. Every vertebrate IS its head. The rest of the body is just life support for the head (particularly the brain). Therefore, all such transplants should be referred to as "body transplants".
every head is just signal processor for its body. The body is the most important part, with digestive, reproductonal, and other systems functioning mainly there.
This is an uncomfortably astute comment. I am a wet computer suspended in liquid, encased in a bone shell, attached to my meat mecha by a spaghetti noodle.
It's interesting to note how this idea differs from person to person but yet even the people doing these experiments note it to some degree. After watching this video I ended up watching the Motherboard interview of Dr. White (which is credited in the description here). Dr. White even touches on this particular point, and one thing that stuck out to me was his direct (although brief) criticism of the Soviet dog head grafting later in the interview, saying that: *"This was not an animal model [experiment] that offered much in the human range. I couldn't figure out what the idea was behind a two headed dog."* Apparently he tried to model all his experiments to gather data to help aid in the still developing field of transplant science. He also states at one point (talking about the field in general) "nobody knew how far to go - I mean after all you've got to stop somewhere."
People believed lung transplants are cruel until it actually saved someone’s life. Just need to find the balance between ethics and science in my opinion.
At first I thought you said "1917" experiment and I was like, yeah well, they were pretty f'ed up back then. But then it was 1970 and holy smokes that's only some 50 years in the past. This is insane
1970s also had forced eugenics experiments, experiments on black people without their consent in hospitals, random BS done on mental health patients like exposure to chemicals radiation electricity or bacteria... Humans can be pretty disgusting creatures when you let the ones without empathy make decisions, and expect the rest of them to follow along.
To me sometimes we as humans must realize we are not worth more then other beings.what happens to us is meant to be.This type of twisted self righteous thinking is disgusting and should be wiped out.
I feel like this some human centipede type of science. I can’t imagine just being a head being kept alive by a body that isn’t yours. However, I can’t lie about how useful head transplants can be if they manage to make it work. Unfortunately with the current need for more research on how to repair a severed nervous system I don’t see head transplants happening anytime soon... and frankly I feel like that is for the best.
Reminds me of AHS Coven where dude has his friend limbs attached to him and he remembers how each dude got each tattoo that is now apart of him. Creepy shit
Imagine how awesome it would be to transfer your conscientiousness/brain to an artificial body like an Android body, or a new body fabricated after your genetics with embryonic stem cells. Immortality
I generally agree with your ethical rating of 6 mostly because of the whole "for science" thing, except when they kept the brain alive outside of the head... For me, that simply cranked it up to a 9
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This was a quite the topic for a new series. Like don't wrong, it was really interesting, but like, I feel I need to question my ethics for a good while after that. Hope its received well by everyone else. Also if that's a 6, then I'm terrified to find find out what a 10 is.
i remember hearing about this in creepypastas about horrible experiments and science run-a-mock. but i didnt know it actually worked. i am aware said experimented animals perished, but the fact it worked for even a minute it astonishing
although the monkey was conscious after the procedure, would it have been able to move any organs under its neck? it must've been breathing if it was alive, but how? does that mean they had to reattach its synapses one by one?
Although the experiments are messed up imagine if in the future someone's body gets mangled to unfixable levels and then they just super glue their head on to a new body and they're perfectly fine to live out the rest of their life
But wouldn’t that person then have to take a medication for the rest of their life to then hoping every day their brain dosent reject this new whole body?!? I would be mortified to find myself in a new body I’d rather just die.
@@mere11yn Perhaps you might, but think about how horrifying this future is already. So many strange things going on right now would freak out a person even a decade ago, and if you went back in time to when these people were performing these experiments, they would think that the idea of children constantly using machines to access limitless knowledge would be insane. It all is relative, unfortunately.
I imagine that in the future they'll basically be able to 3D print living tissue, replacement limbs and organs, damaged brain tissue. But I also imagine that only the wealthy and privileged will have access to miracle medicine. The rest of us will just be a pool of spare parts and raw biomass.
@@pwnmeisterage there's already a thing where you take donor organs, put them in a liquid that destroys everything EXCEPT fibers, leaving a sort of organ shell or mesh, then take stem cells from the patient and have them grow into that organ, so that it doesn't get rejected.
I feel like the bad guy,but they're dead. Without arguing afterlife beliefs whether religious,cultural, or otherwise.. I'm glad they aren't suffering anymore, and I really hope vengeful spirits aren't a thing, because I feel these experiments would've factory for that kind of thing.
@@alzbetal1499 Ehh, this really isn't even that bad compared to... I don't know skinning animals alive and throwing the still living animal onto a pile of other ones. I've seen some horrific stuff on this glorious internet. Humanity can really suck, though in nature animals eating each other alive isn't too much different really if you are talking about them being in pain. sad.
@@evelynvslife It's more about how deliberate and nightmarish the thing is. Obviously from a moral calculation standpoint one person (counting the monkees as people due to intelligence) dieing is typically not as bad as a group dieing, but vivisection and torture just somehow amps things up emotionally. There's a reason deliberate action vs accidental action is used so much in ethical hypotheticals. Accidents are a lot easier to deal with on the conceance than torture.
@@MisterIvyMike yeah I’m okay hearing about that. It’s messed up, but I don’t think it’s worse than cutting two creatures heads off, leaving one dead, and transplanting one head on the others body and watching it slowly die. You are free to disagree, but I think this experiment is worse than human lobotomy.
I still will never understand why we use innocent animals as science experiments while serial killers are living in peace in prisons. This experiment to these monkeys that didn't deserve to be confused and not understand what's going on disgusts me.
I usually can't handle watching things about harming animals, but the way you make videos.. Somehow I was able to and would actually love to learn about more of these from you!
>Decapitates man
>Expects noble prize
>Gets life in prison
>Sadge.jpeg
it was the noble prize for medicine/science, not peace :)
Decapitation of peace ☮️🕊️
@@vallisdaemonum255 Well played lol
Has to be for a purpose....and done through legal loopholes
With all the violent morons and useful idiots getting Nobel Peace Prizes, this guy getting one sounds fairly reasonable.
Imagine waking up without any sensations because you’re just a brain outside your body.
If it's anything like being in a sensory deprivation tank, it would definitely be weird. With the body actually missing though, I'd worry about something along the lines of phantom limb syndrome being an issue.
I have no mouth, and I must scream.
Well, they still had the head... The probabily felt like some paralitics feel every day.
@@LoGaIta99 I’m talking about the experiment at 4:30. It was 6 brains without the heads.
@@nameofthegame9664 I suppose the had still the heads around them... How do you extract a brain without interrupting bloodflow and/or causing massive emorragies?
Imagine waking up and having a stranger's head attached to you, or you attached to a stranger's body. Or waking up and not having a body at all. Can't imagine what those animals were going through
It baffles me how arrogant some people are thinking this is somehow justified. They call it "the greater good". We must not progress at the expense of our own humanity. This really made me sad. I'm off to watch a comedy now 😅
@@MadMax-dp2bb let's analyze it, you basically "kills" the person whoose head is going to be transplanted, you straight up kill the host and the Best thing you can get is a tetraplegic person who is probably going to die pretty soon that's fucking fucked up!
@@sayori3939 I know, its awful 😥
@@MadMax-dp2bb yeah and the fact that they throw away the original host head is disturbing
Heart transplants are common , what is wrong with using a dead body to to give a paraplegic a full set of useable limbs , we have face transplants for burn victims and also arm transplants ,once the body is dead we can use so much from the dead person to help people , liver transplants , eye transplants , do you all really think the dead body feels the emotions of the person in once lived in , how , the person has died , only the person is dead , the body is still useful
What's nightmarish about this, to me at least, is to imagine what must be going on in the monkey's thoughts. From what I understand of it, it sounds like the body itself wasn't being kept alive by the brain's signals to the muscles, but rather by mechanical processes which kept the lungs and heart working. So this isn't so much of a "head transplant" as it was hooking a head up to what was essentially a biological machine that kept it alive. The body it was hooked up to was little more than a life support system that kept the brain active.
But think about this for a second... that means that the monkey's brain would be trying to tell it to do the things it normally would, but it wouldn't be able to. It would try to breathe, but it has no lungs with which to take a breath. It would try to move, but it's not actually connected to the muscles of the body, so nothing would happen. It could just... observe its surroundings and respond to stimuli on its face.
That sounds like hell.
The most bizzare part is the brain isn't solely responsible for the panic response. A large part of the feeling of panic is from your bodies reaction. So what would that feel like? The adrenal glands aren't located in the brain, they are located in the torso. So there would be no adrenaline, no feeling of your heart beating quickly, no hyperventilating. But obviously your brain would try to panic, but could it even?
Even the fear and panic from being in that situation would feel strange and confusing.
@@lobsterbark now that's interesting
"Kill me."
"Later."
I think it'd be a very surreal and more extreme version of the phantom limb syndrome, except it's an entire body.
Imagine feeling like you have an itch on your leg, but even if you could command your new body to scratch it you'll always feel that itch. It would take a very long time to get used to that feeling, and it would drive nearly everyone insane to some extent.
@losmmn loserman The monkeys were specifically chosen because their brains are similar to humans. Humans aren't unique in feeling most of the things mentioned, in fact many of them are some of the most basic responses to stimuli. The only thing animals might not experience is phantom limbs, but I think it's more likely they just can't communicate it. Animals are a lot more complex than you think.
This isn't what they meant when they said return to monkey
@@slyseal2091 definitely nothing will go wrong
@@slyseal2091 Just don't get it in your hair, that shit ain't coming off
Oh god
Nobody specified to be fair
But it is a good step towards reject humanity
Imagine you are about to get brain surgery and you're scared, and the surgeon says "oh don't worry, i once did a head transplant, this will be super easy"
On a monkey nonetheless lmao this is monty python material right here
ok but that just sounds like medic from tf2
@@sockbonez1929 yeah now that i think about it it does lol
Imagine if the doctor said that he stole the skeleton of a patient once
@@tractorenjoyer9310 engineer gaming
Honestly, the dog experiments freak me out more. Not just because it involved dogs, but because thinking about how either dog must have felt is horrifying. Imagine waking up with a stranger attached to your body or waking up as a disembodied head attached to another creature. It's the stuff of nightmares.
Imagine being a conscious brain without any link to sensory organs or anything that's actually horrific. No nerves or breathing or hearing just alive but nowhere.
You ever have a dream? It'd be just like that. 🤷♂️
@@Broken_Orbital how is being aware without any connection to any sense without the comfort of the context of a room or the sense of connection to your body unable to affect anything like a dream, you'd just be trapped nowhere but able to think without any way to express your panic
@@legowoshi you kinda just answered your own question... Dreams are literally just your brain actively working without being in control of your body. That's not much different than a brain actively working without being in control of a body.
@@Broken_Orbital what they would be fully aware though at least for a short time, the consciousness is fully preserved but it would sort of be like paralysis
@@Broken_Orbital if I took you and made you unable to affect any parts of your body except your brain you wouldn't just start dreaming you'd still be aware but unable to do anything except think
The worst part is the grafted brains. How would it be like just being a brain without any sensory organs?
I wonder if they felt a consciousness...
you would feel dead but your not dead
We're all just brains grafted onto bone suits that wear meat armor. But still give those monkeys anesthesia at least!
That's basically the plot of Johnny got his gun
@@krxzpkrxnxh1431 off topic but why is that dissasociation in a nutshell
"an unethical experiment?"
Rats and mice: First time?
I mean, the lives of pests like that are kind of insignificant.
@@Slapnuts9627 Taking into account their high fertility and mortality rate, yes. I would still argue that using the lives of rats and mice for science is unethical despite how insignificant people think they are.
@@dry1197 Either there or get beat to death with a broom in my living room, again.
@@dry1197 most mice don’t live very great lives sadly, might aswell use them for science
Lol true
Actually the monkey doesn’t look afraid, just borderline between life and death and as if it’s not fully aware of what the heck is going on and I hope it didn’t have long term memory functions
Just imagine, a group of seemingly omnipotent, semi-bald, big-headed giants abducted your ansectors so now you just gotta be a head with no body for a day and a half while in unimaginable anguish numbed heavily by a magical mystery serum completely erasing what remaining senses you had left, given to you forcefully by the aforementioned giants as everything you knew in your short life as a Rhesus monkey in a strange, angular cave in which said giants keep you and your relatives ceases to exist and you never experience life as a monkey again, that being your final conscious state as a living being.
Thats from the viewpoint of a human trying to imagine what such a monkey would see and think, it probably wont be like that for the monkey, but I'm sure pain and confusion would be involved. Regardless of whether you have thoughts or can understand (in a way) whats happening, you will feel pain because you're alive and not numbed. And you would probably want to be in your old fucking body, right? The unethical part for me is when someone is awake and feels pain, they are probably in a state of shock. We wouldn't do it to a human under normal circumstances assuming we dont have a mental illness, but since it's a monkey or another animal it's okay.
@@JohnSmith-hq6fl one time My head was getting crushed. Didn’t feel pain, it was like everything was weird. Probably didn’t reach the point where intense pain would of been in that case. Think my brain was having issues processing what the heck was going on.
The body is a strange thing.
@@whitedragoness23 Jesus, I'm sorry that you went through something like that! A curious part of me wants to ask what and why happened, but the squeamish side is like oh my lord please don't think about it, don't ask. Not to mention, it might be something you wouldn't want to talk about, so I'm kinda not sure if I should ask or not... So uh, yeah, sorry if asking about it is wrong, but I'm really curious and have some issues with interpersonal interactions, so I don't know where the boundary in this case is o:
@Pixie No I'm not sleepy, what do you mean!
There's something incredibly disturbing about this, honestly, especially the isolated brain transplants.
It's pretty much impossible to know whether an isolated brain remains conscious, but if so, that idea is absolutely terrifying.
200th like
@@darcipeepscue a Vsauce video about identity and self
I don’t think “totally evil” and “for the greater good of mankind” are mutually exclusive unfortunately.
I suppose one could think of it as an excusability scale rather than a morality one
We still use some of the information about humans surviving in freezing temperatures that was developed from Nazi torturers.
@@darrenmuse and the ways we fight epidemics has been greatly enhanced by Japanese experiments where they bombarded Chinese cities with biological weapons just to see what would happen.
I think that scientist should be more open to doing experimental crazy tests.. The greatest scientists who ever lived probably didn't care a lot about morals!
*Eren Jaegar vibing on the back*
i like how the title says “an unethical experiment???” like it was a rare thing in the 70s
doesn't make it less unethical?
@@anastasia5756 yes i know but it's like it's asking "an unethical experiment??? in 1970???"
Josef Mengele may or may not have done that to humans, just saying
@@anastasia5756 I'm pretty sure they meant that unethical/questionably ethical experiments, especially on animals, were a dime a dozen in the 70s, so asking if it was unethical is somewhat redundant by nature
Aka, it was a jab at the period, not saying the period made it more ethical
Would you prefer they described this as ethical?
"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should."
Jeff Goldblum as Ian, "Jurassic Park"
Wowe so deep
i cant imagine how helpless and terrified those animals felt
"The 1970 Monkey Head experiment" is an excellent name for a punk band.
Dangthatsalongname
dibs
Or a prog band
Ayo that would be pretty epic
Reduce it to "Monkey Head Experiment" and I honestly wouldnt question it for a second if you told me it was an actual punk band
The key problem with this branch of medicine is that even the most recent attempts to make progress don't even bother trying to re-establish any sort of nervous system connections. They can just barely reconnect essential blood supply and combat immune system rejection, so far they aren't even trying to link up sensory connections.
It's like firing manned space flight missions into orbit before you've figured out how to pressure seal the interior of a cockpit. First we need to figure out how to repair spinal cord injuries properly, THEN we can think about brain/head transplants in extreme circumstances.
Thats a good point. The only two scenarios I can imagine this being useful is someone with unbelievably horrific body injuries that didnt affect the head, and massive spinal cord damage on the donor body. Either way, who wants to live as a quadriplegic, may as well try to keep a head alive in a jar. Also, the unbelivably complex ethical rammifications of essentially live organ donation. The only body donors possible would be coma patients, meaning youd have to physically murder them rather than just let them die naturally. Seems like a cart before the horse scenario on many levels
Right? And they only "lived" For 6-15 hours max. With those results with such high cruelty is unethical imo. If they were trying to figure out how the monkey can live comfortably this would be a different story. This is just some low class Frankenstein shit.
@@skeetsmcgrew3282 you act like that isn't what is already happening with organ donation. If you believe in brain death it's all the same whether you only take the major organs or the whole damn body.
Also kinda ableist to devalue the lives of quadriplegic people like that. They're lives have value too and deserve to be saved.
Lastly.. Stephan Hawking, would probably still be alive if we had transplanted his head off his failing body with minimal quality of life loss at that point in his disease.
@@voidofspaceandtime4684 Feel free to show all of us exactly where they list Stephen Hawking's accomplishments as an example - we both know they did nothing of the sort.
You are grossly misrepresenting what they said, both about able-ism and about Stephen Hawking. (Which were quite clearly two separate and unrelated statements.)
Yes, but also why not just figure out how to fix the fucking spin and call it a day. This is just freaks getting bored and getting a hold on money to play with.
The hardest part of a brain transplant would be the reconnection of nerves imo. Especially to the extent of regaining full functionality of the whole body.
Agreed, neural tissue is slow to regrow if it does at all. They focused on the monkeys facial movements [Crainal Nerve 7.] Since the incision point was at Cervical nerve 5 it makes sense those areas above the cut are not going to be affected.
My question is, once the spinal column and thus the spinal cord was severed on both subjects. and they were frankeinstiened back together was any voluntary movement in the body noticed...?
I assumed the body was being kept alive with Machines beating the heart and such. but with signals not getting to or from the control centre in the brain [thalamus and hypothalamus] to maintain body homeostasis then all they really accomplished was creating a quadriplegic monkey.
As an animal lover myself, I have some thoughts about this…
Animal testing is a whole can of worms that is understandably hard to talk about. I’m a bioengineer, and so my field has to work with lab animals probably more than any other. I cant imagine the type of life those poor dogs and monkeys lived as test subjects in premodern medicine, but now, there are strict regulations to protect lab animals. You have to have a clear plan for what will be done and explanation as to why it is necessary. In addition, you have to use the minimum possible number of animals, and provide them with clean and large enough enclosures, clean food and water, proper veterinary care, stimulating toys, places to run around, etc. and when doing experiments, you have to give anesthetics unless its absolutely impossible to do so. And prolonged suffering must be avoided at all costs.
Its unfortunate that we still have to use animals for experiments, but at the time being there aren’t suitable analogues that would mimic bodily responses to things accurately.
I’d agree that this experiment is probably a 5 or 6 on the scale because While I imagine these creatures were treated horribly, I know this work had huge impacts on both neuroscience and making people aware that lab animals needed better treatment.
Why not use humans? like there are 7 billion of us (of course by their consent) I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of volunteers.
@@RANDOM-pf1ve messing around with animals is one thing but changing heads on humans is a rabbit hole we shouldnt enter
@@sparkling925 Why not experiment on convicted criminals on death row? Like murderers n such. They killed/tormented ppl they might as well be used to benefit society. It's just a thought though. And it's not something I would personally call inhumane but that might just be me.
“aS aN aNiMaL lOvEr mYsElF” don’t lie, you hate cockroaches and are disgusted by worms.
@@hellodumplings8564 cockroaches are pretty cute though, a fair bit of people have them as pets actually. and worms are just little wiggling pink tubes, what's so disgusting about them?
Scientist 1: “I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU TO...”
Scientist 2: “Wait, say that part one more time”
Lol
Do people not realize how clever this is? LOL. I got it.
Lol
Best comment for this video, hands down.
_Wait why is this comment underrated?_
"the surgeries were a success, but the dogs died after 2 days." that... does not sound like a success.
it successfully slow killed the dog in the most horrible way.... don't be so negative...
That was success in the 1900’s
@Tano wouldn't have to, if his body weren't paranoid.
Cadaver research used to be considered ethically and morally abhorrent. But look where that research has gotten us. It's not pretty, but few things in life are. Fact is, these test subjects led a much better life than a farmed animal. This wasn't cruel or sadistic. Ugly, but the research led to successful organ transportation. Weigh 100,000 people dying a slow and painful death due to renal failure. Now you could have prevented that with experimentation on a dozen or 2 animals. Which is more cruel?
i'm not criticizing the scientist, i didn't even mention the scientist. i'm saying that a procedure that prolongs the subject's life by only two days does not sound succesful, since usually the point of surgery is to prolong life as long as possible. frankly it was a joke, but please keep explaining this to me like we didn't all watch the same video.
The rate of success is massively impressive. Going from minutes to hours to days to months so quickly? Astounding.
Yea its kinda sorta getting decently close to potentially becoming a valid surgery for humans
Nerd
I'm glad that the 2017 transplant never happened, I read into it some more and found that the Doctor's main volunteer actually backed out after thinking on it more. The guy has a wife and kid so I'm glad he didn't take such a massive risk; for their sakes.
The volunteer wasn't fully functional. They were essentially a head attached to a malfunctioning body. Yes he had family, but his quality of life is essentially nil. I believe he got cold feet because he believed he would lose what little functionality he still retained if things went wrong and would simply become a disembodied head.
@@anonymousplanetfambly4598 fill me in on the 2017 transplant? Not related to what anyone has said here but I've never heard of it and was going through a lot during that time, so even if I did hear of it I wouldn't be able to remember it (memory loss). It just sounds interesting to me
Incredible. The rate of success here is staggering. Sounds like something out of a horror film though!
@Lippy Such an underrated classic!
Hey blue eye
@Lippy move them dead bones
The Thing.
Reality can often be more terrifying than fiction. Morally repugnant as this was, it did advance medical knowledge significantly to the point were as a consequence, thousands possibly tens to hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved/extended/improved.
As fascinated I am by these kinds of experiments, I can't believe there are people twisted enough to think them up.
Shiit. you know who they do it for.....????
@@sonacphotos Technically speaking you're correct and head transplants could very well be possible in a further future but those experiments are still nightmare fuel.
@@sonacphotos very interesting potentially very useful. Good to understand the information and how it’s done but I don’t think humans should go much further into playing god tbh 😂😂😂 guess I’ve seen too many sci-fi horror movies. Also I love monke
@@sonacphotos I'm sorry but I feel this is just too cruel. I would rather be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life than put another living thing through this nightmare. Progression is good but it is it always necessary at the expense of others? I dont feel it is.
@@MadMax-dp2bb I geuss there's many different people, because out of all the people I've asked, a good amount would rather kill another living being, human or not. Then live the rest of there lives in a wheelchair.
So glad I found this page. first time I've seen someone discussing topics like this while preserving it as a psychology case study AND horror/disaster content simultaneously.
I didn’t even know about the dog surgeries, legitimately shocked they happened AND that someone won a nobel peace prize for it
Dog: man's best friend.
Man: lol, ima make a double doggie.
Super dog 🐕
Dog +
🐕 2.0
Soon we will have cerberus to guard ourhomes.
@@ABW941 Horace is the only dog I want watching my back 😏
Had to bring it to 666!
@@RaivoltG Cool story.
Not gonna lie, secret of NIHM and plague dogs weren’t kidding about how creepy animal experiments can be... and this just cranked that up to 7.
What do we need to crank it up to 11?
Dude plague dogs lol I wanna show that to children XD
@@whydoyougottahavthis Plague Dogs were ok, but Watership Down gave me legit trauma in my childhood. Same author.
Six. It's rated a 6 on the scale.
@@bazooka93 sorry but I watched it and it’s no worse than any nature documentary... secret of NIHM has a ton of darker implications... “we can no longer live... as rats... we KNOW too much...”
Brisby:.... 😳
While yes, this is the stuff of nightmares, I’m amazed that the monkeys even lived at all, much more that they lived as long as they did, even eat at all, and in the end, neither suffered brain damage. It’s awesome in the most literal sense of the word with a horrible sickening twist
Sad that the dogs died painfully while the stupid monkeys lived. It should've been the other way around.
@@josephmonkele5992 What
This was wholeheartedly disturbing.
Bruh if this is a 6/10 what kind of unimaginable ungodly shit is a 10/10
Probably same but with humans
Unit 731 level shit
The box that simulated depression is probably up there.
Look under the heading of "Nazi" and "Japan WWII"
@@OrbitalBro whats that?
In my opinion, if it would be horrific to do to a human, then it’s also horrific to do to an animal
Just because they arent sentient like us doesnt mean the process is less torturous. If they feel pain and fear its not moral to go that far period
@@allanredhill8682 sapient* sentience is any form of intelligence, whether that be fission bombs, or the ability to recognize food and water. Sapient beings are like us.
@@roenherkth2821 Wrong, sentience isn't any form of intelligence.
I mean, to be fair, shouldn’t we think that way for cows/pigs? Pigs are extremely intelligent and if it’s so horrific for a dog why can’t it be seen the same for other animals? (This is not coming from a vegan lol)
@@star-tc7xv - I totally agree and it bothers me (I'm not vegan either)
The fact that this is only a 6 on the morality scale makes me concerned at what would be considered a 10
"YES WE DID IT! wait this brain doesnt fit in this skull.. dammit welp bring me another monkey"
Man this is gonna sound fucked up but it's pretty amazing how bodies can sorta just do that. It's pretty weird to think that all of those eldritch masses of flesh seen in horror media could in theory be done with enough trial and error. Curiosity is a dangerous thing.
You can trick a body but not a brain, immune system response is the biggest barrier in head transplant
@@Bro1212_ guess we got to start cloning are bodys...
@@Bro1212_ What if we learn how to make our own immune system with technology in the future then it might work although that would be scary to me.
I agree that its amazing how bodies can do that
Berry ... it was for the cat! LMAO
While ethically questionable it's interesting that they attempted this and were even successful to an extend. Would be awesome if you can cover more topics like these, I think it's a great addition to your content.
Another unethical experiment the Russians tired was making a human chimp hybrid but it was in the 50 I think so DNA wasn’t even known so gene splicing wasn’t a thing. The carzy thing is if we wanted to we would be able to now. I’m curious how a ape man hybrid would look/ think act but That’d be super fucked up to do so I’m fine with just using my imagination lol.
@@Nothingmore146 probably like Mr.Throgmorton from the sinking city.
@John Flower Cruel as these experiments may be, they are important to understand science. Eventually you might be able to transplant the head of someone who is severly bodily ill unto the body of a person who is braindead and, given some more advances in neurosurgery for nerve connection, at least give that one person a new body, a new life.
@@Nothingmore146 Well... Bigfoot comes to mind. >
@@theangriestcatintheworld I don’t think Bigfoot but it made me think.if we created a ape human hybrid would we treat it like a animal or human or if we found an intelligent ape species would how would we treat them. Humans can be the most compassionate and kind or most evil and cruel obviously depend on the person or group of people.
I have seen the live vivisection of this experiment. And let me tell you that the monkey was very freaked out when it saw it’s body be carried away.
Purely as a thought experiment, I wonder how much further we would be in medicine if we had no ethical roadblocks in place. I mean it would be naivé to say that we wouldn’t be further along, its really a question of how much and how much greater the cost would be.
Jesus christ. Scientists scare me, and I'm a professional scientist.
It's about an 8. To get to 9 it would need to be on people, to get to 10 it just needs to be on unwilling people.
Bro. 11.
Thats an 11.
And I'm super mad that science almost has to do this to make progress. Like, even if you theoretically make it work over and over again you only know if it truly works once you try it.
The question is should you try it. And that's very difficult to answer. If it could give people the ability to escape a wheelchair, okay. But would a person even want another person's entire body.
Could you in the future maybe synthetically grow bodies and attach human heads? Imagine trans people could literally translate over to their gender and even choose the type of body they want...
Its a very ethically difficult topic
I'd go 7-9-10 by your scale. To be fair, we've done even worse things to animals in the pursuit of better medicine for humans.
This might sound really messed up but I believe we should replace capital punishment with human experimentation. Like I feel bad for the animals because we cant judge them so for the most part their innocent but say there is like a child rapist murderer, I would not feel bad if they were experimented on especially if they ended up messed up or dead because they wouldve died to the death penalty either way and theyre also horrible people. I especially think this should be the case because say something like experimental cancer cures or something of that nature were being tested, that would greatly benefit humanity.
6 6.5 for willing people and 10 for unwilling.
Literally willingness defines this situation.
@@JR-me7yk The issue is that a lot of people in jail are actually innocent. I can’t remember his name but a man was killed by our government despite the actual murderer clearing the man’s name.
Imagine the experiments we don’t know about
Stop it aaron!
Dont go there mate....
If there's no papers, it's not scientific research
@@tsukikoamagiri There arr papers we know nothing about.
@@TheGoodCrusader less steps
@@theindianyouwatch /woosh
?
Every second of the descriptions of the surgery made me want to hurl. The level of discomfort I feel is astronomical
learning comes at a price and that price is me squirming around because of how uncomfortable I was
This specific experiment has me pretty conflicted inside. But the new format is great!
Thank you
I have to say I agree with you. This is bordering on Josef Mengele stuff.
@@anthonydefreitas6006 I keep thinking it's more Unit 731, because they were competent, which makes them somehow even worse...
I feel the same way...
I know I will get lot of hate but
*Is it moral to let millions suffer when a suffering of a few animal could show the path to their salvation?*
We already kill billions of animal for fun and food
The entire time I was just thinking how some two poor dudes have probably been tortured like this we’ll just never know
That’s unfortunately true... i think there is no greater good in this. It’s just messed up
Auschwitz. Joseph Mengle.
@@jessi4894 jep. disgusting shit. but also this seems like a professionally led experiment which makes it even more erie
We will know.. but will be undeniable truth to accept, how can one trust ever again
Unit 731. I read a little bit of what happened there and it made me want to rock it the shower for eight hours. Pure evil
This feels like a 10 to me. It was beneficial for our future, but it killed so many animals. The monkey at 7:33 will probably forever haunt me. He's so terrified and he died for something he didn't care about.
How is it beneficial?
@ginamm7393 Sorry I took so long to reply. Also had to rewatch the video since it was 2 years old, but I THINK I was talking about 0:55? He mentions how theoretically, it would allow paraplegic people to walk and it could benefit disabled people.
10/10 on the unethical scale. What the heck.
Imagine if aliens abducted humans to chop off and restitch their heads bruh. That’s probably what it’s like for these animal dudes. I feel so bad for them
Yeah, they should fatten us up in a small cage to eat us.
You should see Mars Attacks.. they touch on that.
@@murrfeeling they are. Earth is just a galactic Food Court.
@Spencer Roper wait
@Spencer Roper no...
My brain is completely split between "those poor subjects" And "this could have a very interesting results"
Well I hope it sticks to “those poor subjects” because the poor monkey ☹️ what did the damn monkey do
@@mere11yn nothing, what's the point of your question? Would you prefer the test being done on humans?
If I got to have a coffee date with Gordana.. maybe
@@bacicinvatteneaca yes actually. I'd prefer if itd be done on humans who were in jail for things like murder/manslaughter, rape, pedophilia, you get my drift?
@Pig Mask That's not very fair?
this series might be one of the best that youtube recommends to me, keep up the great work
I was already familiar with these experiments and skipped the dog part because I'm going through some stuff right now, so my thoughts are only in relation to the monkey side of the experiment.
Ethically, I don't have a problem with this experiment, and that is due to the way these monkeys were cared for while in the hands of these researchers. From the pictures and videos, the monkeys looked healthy and happy pre-surgery. During surgery, they were anesthetized, given anti-rejection meds, antibiotics, and, presumably, painkillers. I'm not 100% sure about the painkillers, but if they hadn't been administered, the monkeys would have been panicking on awakening, not calmly eating fruit. Post-surgery, their lives were short, but again: they were cared for, studied, and a great deal was learned through this procedure, experiment, and their sacrifice. No one is perfect and no experiment is perfect, but I think the most important part is that we do our best to provide the best care possible based on our knowledge at the time.
They weren’t eating fruit they had no stomach. That was ice being forced into its mouth. Also these monkeys are stolen from their mothers and raised in cages never to see the sun or interact with other monkeys. You saw a 2 second clip and made a ton of assumptions.
@@pinkdoll3578 I stated that I was familiar with these experiments and that prior familiarity includes the knowledge that this monkey was able to chew and swallow food.
The monkey did have a stomach, since its head was attached to the other's body.
Animals can be raised and live quite happily in captivity, though the exact origins of these monkeys is unknown.
Yes, I made the assumption that these monkeys were reasonably healthy, because anesthesia can not be administered to unhealthy individuals for fear of killing them. For example: This is seen in morbidly obese patients who choose to have weight-loss surgery - they have to attain a weight goal in order for the operation to go ahead. If they do not, simply putting them under will likely kill them.
@@pinkdoll3578 as much as I love your cause the OP of this Comment is right, your going off our own assumptions though and that’s not healthy.. it could also get you in trouble, I would reread OP’s comment before saying something okay?
Btw, I love have you gave background knowledge, this is amazing and as bad as it is I heard a lot of positives come out of it, Science isn’t always ethical but it’s helpful
@@user-ns3xq5sq7g Get me in trouble? With who?… "I remember that the head would wake up, the facial expressions looked like terrible pain and confusion and anxiety." That’s a quote from Jerry Silver who worked alongside White during the experiment. Even IF this fantasy COULD have worked transferring an entire body would cost the receiver around 13 million dollars. Besides the fact that the donors body’s could save multiple people instead of just one. This experiment helped NO ONE and was NOT carried out in a way that was even remotely humane. Also when the spinal chord is detached you lose all function of the lower body ie the stomach. It couldn’t even breathe without a much one. Get your facts straight. Also the one of the dogs used in the previous experiment was a puppy. If you can glean positives from this you are sick and just plain incorrect.
This is quite awful. Imagine the monkey, waking up on a new body, with no sensation bellow the cut. That thing is the stuff of nightmares.
To me the creepier one is the severed dog brain because it had some level of consciousness but with literally no sensory input
@@firewulfz I think none of them had sensory input bellow the cut. They wanted to see if it survived, not if it had a good life afterwards.
@@sysbofh no he's talking about some of the other experiments conducted. They only tried to keep the brain alive. Literally just a brain sitting on a table being kept alive. Unable to see, hear, taste, feel. They were able to keep the brains alive for awhile and record that they were conscious.. albeit freaking the fuck out.
The various ones with dogs make me sad because doggos are the light of the world. But the monkey creeps me out because there's a nonzero chance that it was able to detect that it was atached to a body that was not in fact its own body. And there's just no way to go explaining that to a monkey.
@@Evil_Emperor_Zurg Ugh.
"Science is humanity's most efficient tool towards progress, but it is easy to become narrow minded pursuing a result --when that happens it is important to take a step back from the lab, and look into something just as equally important... like ethics."
My chemistry professor about unorthodox (borderline cruel) research methods. As a science major and human being I'll never forget those words.
So for me that experiment gets a 9 since it did help further research about organ transplantation but honestly wtf
@hello amen
@hello I wouldn't.
@hello Of course not. Taking life for another is stupid
@hello I dont think talking about and deciding what one life over another is worth on RUclips will go anywhere
@hello just because a lot of people would realistically do something doesn’t mean that they’re right or ethical.
I wonder why they started with dogs and monkeys instead of something shortlived like mice just to see if a longterm option was even feasible.
larger=easier to manage
mice would be way too small for surgeries like this i think (lucky for the mice)
Watched this entirely too late at night. Really the stuff of nightmares. Sick.
But how they reattach the nervous system? They can't simply slap the head and call it a day. Yeah it survived, but now is in a lump of paralyzed meat.
I imagine that given time the nerves would attach themselves the way veins eventually do when reattaching a body part. And I know there are plenty ofsuccessful lung and heart transplants, but of which require attachment to the nervous system to function. they might have even reattached themselves in this case given that the monkey's heart clearly worked. Or more likely they just found a way to attach the spine
@@morganalabeille5004 idk man seems kinda sus
Warrior who can't feel pain
For some people being a quadriplegic would still be better than death. The guy who wanted the Italian surgeon to carry out his head transplant in 2017 did so because his own body is dying and is already near useless, his head is effectively attached to a useless, dying piece of meat - so attaching it to a useless, living piece of meat would be a step up. Your body is not just your limbs, it is also your life support system, if the body dies then the brain starves.
@@krashd he change his mind tho lol
Imagine being kidnapped and have your body stolen now being someone else’s with their consousness
From what perspective would I be experiencing this?
@@murrfeeling 3 person because you'll be dead...
@@MOE13576 Ok, good, because any of the million scenarios in which I end up dead would, in my amateur opinion, feel exactly the same from the first person perspective.
Freaky Friday : Science Edition
I'm literally gonna go to hell for just writing this comment
The biggest hurdle is how to reconnect the severed spinal cord. Given the number of neurons severed, I can imagine regaining control of the host body. Hence I imagine a biomechanical body might be an easier host, at least in the near future.
The monkies must be so damn angry! What the hell did you do to me!
The thought of cutting off heads and attaching them onto a completely different body for work alone is 9 out of ten for me
Then you must be stupid. It’s a way to save human life.
@@the4tierbridge I think you read my comment wrong
@@mynthis How so?
@@the4tierbridge _the thought of.._
@@simoki_2307 I still don't get it.
When your scale is defined by pure evil and the "greater good" you know the episode is going to get spicy.
You should do an episode on the swedish tooth experiments, they are the lead reason for our great tooth health today but the cost was hundreds of humans suffering for several years
i think converting this series into podcast form would be really helpful! personally i love learning about this stuff but i tend to watch these with my phone flipped over while i do homework, but youtube zaps my battery and it’s annoying to constantly have it open, but i love these videos and appreciate your work greatly
“As such I’m going to rate this a....”
me : this has to be an 11 this is insane
Plain: “ it’s 6 because I’m squeamish”
*what in gods name is a 10 then*
Unit 731 maybe?
Probably what Japanese scientists did to Chinese prisoners during the second world war
This included freezing limbs and smashing them, shock therapy, purposely giving them STIs, taking out organs to see how long they survived (all of these done while the victims were perfectly concious by the way) etc, etc
The sad news is, this is actually what helped western medicine improve so much in so little time, because the results of these experiments had to be given to Americans in agreement to the Japanese army surrendering
Edit: Nvm someone commented Unit 731 before me, I'd forgotten the name of the experiments but yeah, what I described was Unit 731
Just wait. He probably has a list of subjects in waiting.
@@meap6474 excuse me but they did FUCKING WHAT
@luna! It was all for the study of torture, to better understand human limits for pain and morale. The nazis did the same thing during ww2
There's no such thing as a "head transplant" when it comes to vertebrates. Every vertebrate IS its head. The rest of the body is just life support for the head (particularly the brain). Therefore, all such transplants should be referred to as "body transplants".
Technically there is a head transplant. But it will involve aligning the vertibrae and also reconnecting the bodily wires that is the spinal chord.
every head is just signal processor for its body. The body is the most important part, with digestive, reproductonal, and other systems functioning mainly there.
This is an uncomfortably astute comment. I am a wet computer suspended in liquid, encased in a bone shell, attached to my meat mecha by a spaghetti noodle.
@@RB-mm7ce If I replaced your head with another head, you would no longer be you. If I replaced your body with another body, you would still be you.
@@Duncan_Idaho_Potato absolutely not.
I can watch autopsy videos, pimple popper videos, but this, this made my skin crawl.
Seeing that little monkey wake up made me so sad
God this is hard to watch
This is the very definition of "You were so preoccupied with whether you could, you didn’t stop to think if you should"
It's interesting to note how this idea differs from person to person but yet even the people doing these experiments note it to some degree. After watching this video I ended up watching the Motherboard interview of Dr. White (which is credited in the description here). Dr. White even touches on this particular point, and one thing that stuck out to me was his direct (although brief) criticism of the Soviet dog head grafting later in the interview, saying that: *"This was not an animal model [experiment] that offered much in the human range. I couldn't figure out what the idea was behind a two headed dog."* Apparently he tried to model all his experiments to gather data to help aid in the still developing field of transplant science. He also states at one point (talking about the field in general) "nobody knew how far to go - I mean after all you've got to stop somewhere."
Finally, return to monke.
@@Martian_1336 Ew annoying comment
@@Martian_1336 I don't like thing therefore thing bad because me no like
Ftw but mostly all of you
@@Martian_1336 ew somebody who thinks we care about their opinion
@@Martian_1336 why *did you reply
People believed lung transplants are cruel until it actually saved someone’s life. Just need to find the balance between ethics and science in my opinion.
This video made me not only not skip the ad in the middle, but actually watch it emtirely.
Mostly because I needed it as a moment away from the video.
I know a vampire that replaced his brother's head with his own. He had a star on his shoulder.
Took me a while....
What?
@@johnross5098 well aint you big shit
Is that like.... a JoJo reference?
@@ghjkl795 yup
Schools against bullying: "you never know what they feel until you see the world through their eyes"
Mr. White: yes.
It's stories like these that make my throat close up
This was wonderful but frightful at the same time.
This is actually crazy interesting. The clip of the monkey's head alive, looking around and such... such a terrifying thought
At first I thought you said "1917" experiment and I was like, yeah well, they were pretty f'ed up back then. But then it was 1970 and holy smokes that's only some 50 years in the past. This is insane
1970s also had forced eugenics experiments, experiments on black people without their consent in hospitals, random BS done on mental health patients like exposure to chemicals radiation electricity or bacteria... Humans can be pretty disgusting creatures when you let the ones without empathy make decisions, and expect the rest of them to follow along.
In case you haven't realised, we're actually getting MORE fucked up as time goes on, not less...
To me sometimes we as humans must realize we are not worth more then other beings.what happens to us is meant to be.This type of twisted self righteous thinking is disgusting and should be wiped out.
imagine caring more about human life than an animals
Torn between “oh those poor monkeys!” and “this is cool as hell”
cool as hell
Oh my lord, do you all have no sympathy, these poor monkeys ☹️
@@mere11yn I literally said I feel sorry for the monkeys
@@mere11yn But as someone who’s interested in biology, the thought of a head transplant being possible is fascinating to me
@@mere11yn well, as a person who feels little to no empathy at times, no.
I feel like this some human centipede type of science. I can’t imagine just being a head being kept alive by a body that isn’t yours. However, I can’t lie about how useful head transplants can be if they manage to make it work. Unfortunately with the current need for more research on how to repair a severed nervous system I don’t see head transplants happening anytime soon... and frankly I feel like that is for the best.
If I get to decide it I want my head to be experimented on after I die
Reminds me of AHS Coven where dude has his friend limbs attached to him and he remembers how each dude got each tattoo that is now apart of him. Creepy shit
Imagine how awesome it would be to transfer your conscientiousness/brain to an artificial body like an Android body, or a new body fabricated after your genetics with embryonic stem cells. Immortality
I would actually say 4 on account of the progresses in medical science. I wonder if it was attempted today what the outcome would be.
They have completed a full skull transplant now.. Crazy..
I generally agree with your ethical rating of 6 mostly because of the whole "for science" thing, except when they kept the brain alive outside of the head... For me, that simply cranked it up to a 9
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Love your videos. Keep em coming.
great content! Been enjoying your channel for quite a while now.
I’m a fan from this first vid alone. Glad you’re expanding the range of your content
Dude, awesome video. To be honest tho your content is almost always amazing. This one was so interesting
This was a quite the topic for a new series. Like don't wrong, it was really interesting, but like, I feel I need to question my ethics for a good while after that. Hope its received well by everyone else.
Also if that's a 6, then I'm terrified to find find out what a 10 is.
Horrific. I'd score it a 10 no matter what benefits it brought to surgery in the future.
Monke "Oh my head is no longer attached to my body? Well I guess I could be worse. 6/10."
Honestly, I just really like your style regardless of content.
Thank you!
@@PlainlyDifficult Same here, well done!
I know someone who got a stem cell transplant in December 2020. Without immunosuppressants she would not be here. Science is ugly sometimes
I see cancer suppressed with cbd until a solution was reached but as you say science is ugly but it saved a gorgeous woman
@@rogaltriggs4704 yet marijuana is still illegal.
@Nobody comments are not funny you troglodyte so if I use marijuana to help with my CANCER TREATMENT, I'm destroying myself? Huh? Grow up.
@Niek Vels oh no RUclips deleted my comment. Oh well.
@@voidofspaceandtime4684 Drs prescribe opium in pill form all the time lol what are you on about?
i remember hearing about this in creepypastas about horrible experiments and science run-a-mock. but i didnt know it actually worked. i am aware said experimented animals perished, but the fact it worked for even a minute it astonishing
although the monkey was conscious after the procedure, would it have been able to move any organs under its neck? it must've been breathing if it was alive, but how? does that mean they had to reattach its synapses one by one?
Although the experiments are messed up imagine if in the future someone's body gets mangled to unfixable levels and then they just super glue their head on to a new body and they're perfectly fine to live out the rest of their life
But wouldn’t that person then have to take a medication for the rest of their life to then hoping every day their brain dosent reject this new whole body?!? I would be mortified to find myself in a new body I’d rather just die.
@@mere11yn Perhaps you might, but think about how horrifying this future is already. So many strange things going on right now would freak out a person even a decade ago, and if you went back in time to when these people were performing these experiments, they would think that the idea of children constantly using machines to access limitless knowledge would be insane. It all is relative, unfortunately.
Put our head in a jar like futurama
I imagine that in the future they'll basically be able to 3D print living tissue, replacement limbs and organs, damaged brain tissue.
But I also imagine that only the wealthy and privileged will have access to miracle medicine. The rest of us will just be a pool of spare parts and raw biomass.
@@pwnmeisterage there's already a thing where you take donor organs, put them in a liquid that destroys everything EXCEPT fibers, leaving a sort of organ shell or mesh, then take stem cells from the patient and have them grow into that organ, so that it doesn't get rejected.
I feel terrible for these animals. I hope they’re happy wherever they are.
I feel like the bad guy,but they're dead. Without arguing afterlife beliefs whether religious,cultural, or otherwise.. I'm glad they aren't suffering anymore, and I really hope vengeful spirits aren't a thing, because I feel these experiments would've factory for that kind of thing.
They're in a shallow grave behind an abandoned hospital
Yeah but they were hurting so bad, I’m just so mad. People really are messed up kind
@@alzbetal1499 Ehh, this really isn't even that bad compared to... I don't know skinning animals alive and throwing the still living animal onto a pile of other ones. I've seen some horrific stuff on this glorious internet. Humanity can really suck, though in nature animals eating each other alive isn't too much different really if you are talking about them being in pain. sad.
@@tandemic4232 omg don't even tell me about that, that is terrible. I think its time for humanity to end already tbh...
Those agonizing monkeys are heartbreaking.
I'll say 3/10, I don't like it but for some to be able to walk again or even have real limbs again, thats priceless.
Well then, that was terrible. Can we go back to talking about horrifying deaths and injuries from radiation and chemicals, please?
Yeah, horrible things happening to people I can tolerate. But animals? Nope.
Particularly Agent Orange that the US experimented on humans in wars.
@@evelynvslife Oh yeah, let's talk about human lobotomy...
@@evelynvslife It's more about how deliberate and nightmarish the thing is. Obviously from a moral calculation standpoint one person (counting the monkees as people due to intelligence) dieing is typically not as bad as a group dieing, but vivisection and torture just somehow amps things up emotionally.
There's a reason deliberate action vs accidental action is used so much in ethical hypotheticals. Accidents are a lot easier to deal with on the conceance than torture.
@@MisterIvyMike yeah I’m okay hearing about that. It’s messed up, but I don’t think it’s worse than cutting two creatures heads off, leaving one dead, and transplanting one head on the others body and watching it slowly die. You are free to disagree, but I think this experiment is worse than human lobotomy.
I still will never understand why we use innocent animals as science experiments while serial killers are living in peace in prisons. This experiment to these monkeys that didn't deserve to be confused and not understand what's going on disgusts me.
My dog died yesterday. Listening to this is just ugh.
I usually can't handle watching things about harming animals, but the way you make videos.. Somehow I was able to and would actually love to learn about more of these from you!