as soon as I saw the sword in my inventory I knew it was from our guardians grave and I was completely mindful blown that they brought it full circle, which implies in the old timeline we lost and that's why our tomb has the sword
No, I don't think so. Saint-14 mentions that it was one of the guardian's favorite weapons, with the implication that we had it for quite some time. I don't think it was an alternate timeline, I think it was just a future we haven't reached yet. We've just earned the sword, we have plenty of time to make it our favorite
My thing is, I get the vex can predict and calculate the future to the nth degree… but given the paracausal nature of the sword’s origins… how the ever living hell could the vex calculate that!
I think Saint 14 was referring to Bastion (the exotic Fusion rifle we get from this mission) as our favorite weapon and explainimg that that's why it's also at our grave
@@arakemi1080 they struggle to account for it, and when they can it’s generally in the present time. But this is far too deep in paracasuality and too far into the future, to just calculate that. If that were the case, then the vex would have been aware of the witness directly and its downfall with time shenanigans.
A theory I've seen is the corridors of time being the original timeline, where we beat the witness, but became mortal after the events of excision. This was before Crow wished back Cayde, which possibly was the fork in the timeline. Guardians make their own fate. We just needed a little help from Crow and Cayde to change ours.
@@kamui1769if by on rails you mean whether the game lives or dies just get the fuck out dawg, you're here commenting early as hell on a lore post about something you have to be deep into the game to understand, just to drop hate. This game lives in your head and you think about it more than your family does you. It's wild. If that was not your implication, have a nice day :)
My main guardian(my hunter) is someone born in the 1920s that basically became a superhuman after dying during a weapon test and came back to life and I've weaved him into cod ww2, ghost Recon, and now destiny. If following what happens after the final shape to see where his story goes next
i realized it was the sword on the grave stone as soon as i saw the sword. how ironic that we are about to fight the living embodiment of darkness with a sword that we first saw on our grave.
I am no latin expert but the phrase "cogito ergo sum" (I think therefore I Am) always fascinated me. It should describe how our awarness of existing it's tied to us having thoughts. Given that "therefore" is an implication, "ergo sum" probably translates better to "So I Am" we could say it's the certainty of existance. Throwing that out there.
Great interpretation! I want to point out that the meaning of this sentence refers to the idea that one's existence could be proved, and perhaps only proved, by the ability to think (or being conscious). This is the most famous achievement of the philosopher Descartes. Moreover, it’s important to note that, for Descartes, this was a fundamental truth. The only thing whose existence we can prove is the self, because of its ability to think. The fact that this exotic item omits the first part of the sentence is really interesting, and I love to speculate about its implications. Personally, I think it means that the “therefore I am” or “so I am” is open to being caused by anything one decides. It could be the ability to think, but the possibility is open. Our existence is not proved by anything outside of what we choose to put as proof of that existence. As we know, guardians make their own fate. Whatever comes before your “ergo sum” is your choice. I believe this is also well reflected by the fact that you can choose whatever role from the sword suits you best. So, yeah, it’s a really dense exotic philosophically speaking.
@@albylegato2202 Agreed that what comes before Is up to interpretation. In my opinion either: Nothing comes before "ergo", and the phrase means "We exist!", Or the sword, and what we make of It, Is the proof of existence.
We probably originally died shortly after defeating the witness but with the wish the brought back cayde changing causality were not bound to that fate anymore
I noticed almost immediately but a friend of mine didn’t who already had the sword. So, when I showed a picture of the grave he freaked out (in a funny way) that it was the same one. It’s a cool callback and possible foreshadow
It's technically a different model but heavily inspired by the one on our grave. Which i think is in itself symbolic. The sword on our grave signified our death and failure, but still a remnant of hope we could still be out there. The one we get from the Traveler is that hope given form, reforged into (imo) a more elegant and powerful design.
The moment I picked it up, I knew. Also, damn some rolls on this thing COOK. I've got a Wave Frame with Parasite seeker nades, that thing clears tons of adds with one swing. I'm farming for a Wolfpack one and a Stormcaller one, though I'm excited at the prospective Telesto one with a Caster frame. I hope it works like I think it does.
@@SaltSpirits Oh, sick! That answers a question I've had about whether the perks and frames are pre-determined, I guess not lol Now I really want a Caster Frame with the Telesto perk.
Crows wish, wishing cayde back, stopped our death timeline because caydes "trick" by riven was he will be forced to heal the guardian by dying basically.
@@Ghostdragon529 rivens wish is paracausal which basically means it can't be predicted. Since Cayde was wished back via rivens paracausal power he stopped us from the death timeline when he saved our ghost
My theory is that in an alternate timelime our Ghost did die, we became mortal, but still able to weild darkness so although we lost our abilty to defy death Our Guardian still continued fighting for the last city and the traveler. Out of respect for our Ghost we forged the sword, adding its shell to the pommel as a means of rememberance. We finally met our death and thus the sword was engraved in the Guardians grave. But during the mission where we get ergo sum, the sword finds its way back to us in this timeline, since Ghosts are always a part of the Guardian
My theory is that our death would have happened in the end, if SPOILER ALERT Our Ghost had stayed dead. Considering it was saved by what was basically a Ahamkhara wish, it couldn't really be predicted by the Vex. And, as we determined both against Atheon and later The Witness, we choose our own Destiny. That's why that prediction will not come to pass.
The vex managed to calculate the death of our ghost and our own death, which is in and of itself a massive feat calculating a guardians fate. I agree that tossing in an ahamkara Wish into the mix just completed subverted that. We would’ve died defeating the witness, which is why a funeral still would’ve been held at all.
My heart dropped when I seen it in collections, pre tfs completion, I was going through the missions like "NAH not like this" I'm still on edge just seeing it on our guardian. You just never know. When this is going to come back again. Full circle
I theorized about it and (in my opinion) the only reason we didn't die is because of crow wish to bring back cayde (so i think we changed our fate, wich is a nod to "Guardians make their own fate")
I remember putting in a ton of work and then Bungie dropping Bastion to everyone right after. And the people who ran the maze in full got an emblem as compensation. But that mission was cool. Definitely looking forward to another one.
From what comments I’ve read, I’ve developed my own theory. The sword on the grave is potentially something we were given as a way to defeat the witness. We ended up doing it just like we did, only this time cayde wasn’t around. Crow never wished for cayde but still managed to help us infiltrate the pale heart. Our connection to the traveler was forever shattered. It would only be a matter of time before our guardian would be KIA. The ergo sum was placed on a grave as a reminder of what we used to save Sol.
I love that tastes of marathon still linger on in bungie games, sword of roland, you are destiny, why would you hesitate to do something youve done a thousand times before
I feel like we’re at the part where that version of us died, cause saint didn’t know what killed us and planned to avenge us (like he doesn’t really know how powerful the witness was) plus the ghost on the grave is cracked alongside the sword. So either we die later on or we just defied fate
That weapon was apparently our favorite in that timeline, which would imply we used it when we were alive. That timeline also implies that we defeated the Witness, otherwise Saint wouldnt be able to have a speech, thanks to the final shape and all. Its seems that Cayde wasnt wished back, and as such our Ghost would be gone, after which we would die our final death sometime later.
The point of giving us this sword and having us live is to signify that guardians make their own fate. Canonically this is the sword we brought to fight the witness and we lived
I believe that was going to be our fate after defeating the witness because we didnt have a ghost. But as Cayde-6 says "nobody makes my fate but me" when he gave his light for our ghost allowed us to make our own fate, one where we dont end up in that grave.
I knew it as soon as I heard there was a special ammo sword, I knew this cause I remember thinking “we were buried with our favorite sword?? Swords are garbage lmfao they better release something good” and then the moment I heard special ammo sword I was like “oh this is gonna be the sword” 😎 glad to see they did something cool with it
My theory is that in that timeline, cade was not brought back and therefore was not able to save our ghost so we became mortal for a time and wielded the sword in his honor (hence the ghost pommel) until we eventually died
That's why the Guardian(Player) didn't shoot at her/his Ghost when he/she remembered they went to see their own future grave. Now they have swords, and their ghosts are all alright.
My theory is that the corridors of time was unable to predict Cayde sacrificing himself for us and therefore predicted that we would die after our ghost was sapped of its light.
My friend pointed out that if crow never made that wish to bring cayde back we would’ve died later one but since cayde brought our ghost back we weren’t lightless
Im pretty sure this is an alternate timeline. Its a timeline similar to D1 but instead of our character living and surviving after oryx, the witness kills them. Hence the sword is one of the elemental edge weapons.
The reason for this being what I believe to be true is that when that mission dropped only player who transfered accounts from D1 could play that particular mission. Otherwise it was skipped.
believe me or don't but I called this months ago, that we would use the "Time Sword" to literally slice through the Darkness around The Witness... I did also then say we would have to fall for it to fit perfectly but I was half right at least :)
Игры
as soon as I saw the sword in my inventory I knew it was from our guardians grave and I was completely mindful blown that they brought it full circle, which implies in the old timeline we lost and that's why our tomb has the sword
No, I don't think so. Saint-14 mentions that it was one of the guardian's favorite weapons, with the implication that we had it for quite some time. I don't think it was an alternate timeline, I think it was just a future we haven't reached yet. We've just earned the sword, we have plenty of time to make it our favorite
My thing is, I get the vex can predict and calculate the future to the nth degree… but given the paracausal nature of the sword’s origins… how the ever living hell could the vex calculate that!
I think Saint 14 was referring to Bastion (the exotic Fusion rifle we get from this mission) as our favorite weapon and explainimg that that's why it's also at our grave
@@RurouniHiro they have the time to account for paracausality.
@@arakemi1080 they struggle to account for it, and when they can it’s generally in the present time.
But this is far too deep in paracasuality and too far into the future, to just calculate that. If that were the case, then the vex would have been aware of the witness directly and its downfall with time shenanigans.
A theory I've seen is the corridors of time being the original timeline, where we beat the witness, but became mortal after the events of excision.
This was before Crow wished back Cayde, which possibly was the fork in the timeline.
Guardians make their own fate. We just needed a little help from Crow and Cayde to change ours.
Very poetic. But literally the entire game is on rails. And has been since the launch of D1
@@kamui1769if by on rails you mean whether the game lives or dies just get the fuck out dawg, you're here commenting early as hell on a lore post about something you have to be deep into the game to understand, just to drop hate. This game lives in your head and you think about it more than your family does you. It's wild.
If that was not your implication, have a nice day :)
@@kamui1769 Every story ever written is on rails because there's a beginning and end created by a person.
@@kamui1769A story without rails ceases to be a story, sadly
@@kamui1769 Except they've said on several occasions they had no idea what they wanted with the story, D2s story post Forsaken has been FAFO
i noticed, but i innerly denied it instantly. MY GUARDIAN WON'T DIE!
well um
Well, guardians do make their own fate
Well it's just a possible future simulated by the Vex. Given the paracausal nature of the Guardian I doubt it will actually happen.
My main guardian(my hunter) is someone born in the 1920s that basically became a superhuman after dying during a weapon test and came back to life and I've weaved him into cod ww2, ghost Recon, and now destiny. If following what happens after the final shape to see where his story goes next
@@tigerxhazerGod damn and I thought I was good at coming up with lore
It all made sense as Saint was staying in the city as acting Vanguard
i realized it was the sword on the grave stone as soon as i saw the sword. how ironic that we are about to fight the living embodiment of darkness with a sword that we first saw on our grave.
The Veil is the living embodiment of darkness as it mirrors the Traveler. The Witness is just merged conciousness using the Veil.
I am no latin expert but the phrase "cogito ergo sum" (I think therefore I Am) always fascinated me.
It should describe how our awarness of existing it's tied to us having thoughts.
Given that "therefore" is an implication, "ergo sum" probably translates better to "So I Am" we could say it's the certainty of existance.
Throwing that out there.
Thats the name of its ornament
It stems from Descartes writings on existence. We can only be certain that we exist, because we are conscious; thus "cognito, ergo sum"
Great interpretation! I want to point out that the meaning of this sentence refers to the idea that one's existence could be proved, and perhaps only proved, by the ability to think (or being conscious). This is the most famous achievement of the philosopher Descartes. Moreover, it’s important to note that, for Descartes, this was a fundamental truth. The only thing whose existence we can prove is the self, because of its ability to think.
The fact that this exotic item omits the first part of the sentence is really interesting, and I love to speculate about its implications. Personally, I think it means that the “therefore I am” or “so I am” is open to being caused by anything one decides. It could be the ability to think, but the possibility is open. Our existence is not proved by anything outside of what we choose to put as proof of that existence. As we know, guardians make their own fate. Whatever comes before your “ergo sum” is your choice. I believe this is also well reflected by the fact that you can choose whatever role from the sword suits you best. So, yeah, it’s a really dense exotic philosophically speaking.
@@albylegato2202
Agreed that what comes before Is up to interpretation.
In my opinion either:
Nothing comes before "ergo", and the phrase means "We exist!", Or
the sword, and what we make of It, Is the proof of existence.
@@cassandraisapanda1272
Didn't see it.
The ornament says "dubito ergo cogito".
"I doubt therefore I think"
Still interesting.
I IMMEDIATELY knew exactly what that sword was once I saw the pommel
We probably originally died shortly after defeating the witness but with the wish the brought back cayde changing causality were not bound to that fate anymore
Vox obscura has a line talking about psions seeing the traveler being hurt by darkness when you finish the mission
I noticed almost immediately but a friend of mine didn’t who already had the sword. So, when I showed a picture of the grave he freaked out (in a funny way) that it was the same one. It’s a cool callback and possible foreshadow
Maybe this is not about our guardian death, but our own, its a nice weapon and a way of saying goodbye to the player that aren't alive anymore.
The ghost shell on the grave is technically detached from the sword
It's technically a different model but heavily inspired by the one on our grave. Which i think is in itself symbolic.
The sword on our grave signified our death and failure, but still a remnant of hope we could still be out there. The one we get from the Traveler is that hope given form, reforged into (imo) a more elegant and powerful design.
The moment I picked it up, I knew.
Also, damn some rolls on this thing COOK. I've got a Wave Frame with Parasite seeker nades, that thing clears tons of adds with one swing.
I'm farming for a Wolfpack one and a Stormcaller one, though I'm excited at the prospective Telesto one with a Caster frame. I hope it works like I think it does.
Telesto bolt + Cast frame does a Heartshadow Heavy Attack
i got wave frame parasite and wave frame stormbringer, they both slap, the wolfpack one is eluding me still
@@SaltSpirits Oh, sick! That answers a question I've had about whether the perks and frames are pre-determined, I guess not lol
Now I really want a Caster Frame with the Telesto perk.
@@SaltSpirits Ive gotten 4-5 wolfpack and one electric storm. All the wolf pack were void too. I wish i could get other variants.
Wolfpack is hilarious if you're running double swords. Also telesto on a vortex frame is sooo cute too, just sprinkling the bombs all around you
I remember thinking "hey that looks familiar" when I first saw the sword, and I thought it just reminded me of the taken king swords
"i think, therefore i am" is a perfect callback to darkness and its nature
I bet in that timeline Cayde was never back to revive our ghost. But in this one he was alive to save us
We did get the sword afterall
Crows wish, wishing cayde back, stopped our death timeline because caydes "trick" by riven was he will be forced to heal the guardian by dying basically.
Huh?
@@Ghostdragon529 rivens wish is paracausal which basically means it can't be predicted. Since Cayde was wished back via rivens paracausal power he stopped us from the death timeline when he saved our ghost
Guardians make their own fate. GL today boys.
You and Preppie are absolutely flying out these video while maintaining an amazing quality. GG's to both of you!
I KNEW IT
I KNEW
THAT DANG EXOTIC SWORD
LOOKED FAMILIAR
My theory is that in an alternate timelime our Ghost did die, we became mortal, but still able to weild darkness so although we lost our abilty to defy death Our Guardian still continued fighting for the last city and the traveler. Out of respect for our Ghost we forged the sword, adding its shell to the pommel as a means of rememberance. We finally met our death and thus the sword was engraved in the Guardians grave. But during the mission where we get ergo sum, the sword finds its way back to us in this timeline, since Ghosts are always a part of the Guardian
My theory is that our death would have happened in the end, if
SPOILER ALERT
Our Ghost had stayed dead. Considering it was saved by what was basically a Ahamkhara wish, it couldn't really be predicted by the Vex. And, as we determined both against Atheon and later The Witness, we choose our own Destiny. That's why that prediction will not come to pass.
Ahamkaras are paracausal, vex cant simulate paracasality so this is my canon explanation
The vex managed to calculate the death of our ghost and our own death, which is in and of itself a massive feat calculating a guardians fate. I agree that tossing in an ahamkara Wish into the mix just completed subverted that. We would’ve died defeating the witness, which is why a funeral still would’ve been held at all.
As soon as I saw the ghost sculpture I knew instantly
Damn, an absolute banger of a video and I already want part 4 to come out
Maybe we're playing as the traveler incarnate... WE'RE DESTINY JESUS!
Bungie: yup that’s exactly what we meant.😂
My heart dropped when I seen it in collections, pre tfs completion, I was going through the missions like "NAH not like this"
I'm still on edge just seeing it on our guardian. You just never know. When this is going to come back again. Full circle
That was the first thing I noticed
I theorized about it and (in my opinion) the only reason we didn't die is because of crow wish to bring back cayde (so i think we changed our fate, wich is a nod to "Guardians make their own fate")
It might symbolise how our ghost technically died for abit
And we all thought Bastion was what Saint was refering to as “one of his favourite weapons”.
It’s funny because my emblem is what made me remember, I still wear the savior of the past emblem till this day
Same for me but with the Savior title
im not therefore i am- the Schrödinger's cat
Crow wishing back cayde is the only reason we didn’t have this ending
I recognized it immediately. Just was hoping someone else noticed. I'm not disappointed
Yes that is us. Our gravestone. We were called over 100 name title. That is us from the far future.
I noticed when i first got it that it looks the same.
Very cool i love what they did here
If paired with Perfect Paradox story the Guardian and Saint will never die.
Now It’s time for our exotic quest in the destiny universe 😂
Second i saw the weapon, i immediately remembered it
I remember putting in a ton of work and then Bungie dropping Bastion to everyone right after. And the people who ran the maze in full got an emblem as compensation. But that mission was cool. Definitely looking forward to another one.
From what comments I’ve read, I’ve developed my own theory. The sword on the grave is potentially something we were given as a way to defeat the witness. We ended up doing it just like we did, only this time cayde wasn’t around. Crow never wished for cayde but still managed to help us infiltrate the pale heart. Our connection to the traveler was forever shattered. It would only be a matter of time before our guardian would be KIA. The ergo sum was placed on a grave as a reminder of what we used to save Sol.
I love that tastes of marathon still linger on in bungie games, sword of roland, you are destiny, why would you hesitate to do something youve done a thousand times before
Yeah, I’ve been wondering about this ever since I saw that sword. When we see it again.
Cogito ergo sum; I think, therefore I AM
My heart fucking sank when i got that sword
It ties back so well too cause the weapons from that season have returned as well
Not the donkey kong racing track auuggghhh
Yeah and our death ghost became part of the sword
It’s also the dead scuffed soul of dark drinker from d1 made me cry when I say the sprite for it
I feel like we’re at the part where that version of us died, cause saint didn’t know what killed us and planned to avenge us (like he doesn’t really know how powerful the witness was) plus the ghost on the grave is cracked alongside the sword. So either we die later on or we just defied fate
I remember the puzzle of that timeline from the gravestone
We’re honestly too stubborn to die
I think it was an alternate timeline, one where we sacrifice our ghost to kill the witness and have no way to revive the ghost.
i have no mouth and i must scream refrence ???
I noticed it immediately
I think we were fated to die but the raids 4th encounter was quite literally us changing our fate
God don't make me feel old...
I don't think people realize we're in a different timeline than the one we died in... we aren't dying.
We are only alive because Crow made a last second wish to bring back Cayde, and therefore Cayde sacrificing himself to save our ghost
Never did the corridors of time back then. But i do recognize the sword.
I don't think we die. I believe it is either another timeline like Elsie bray or we just changed our destiny
Our fates are sealed
Therefore im, mr. Misty-eyed therefore im
Please someone has to get this
Broooo my mind was blown
I miss corridors of time and menagerie, best things ever
Pals, it's an alternate timeline, our knowledge of what was going to happen made that timeline shift to a safe one
I picked up on this in the witness fight before the raid the corridors might be connected to the traveler
See, I see it as us changing our fate. The fact that we have it in life means we won, and we changed the universe to one where we lived.
That weapon was apparently our favorite in that timeline, which would imply we used it when we were alive.
That timeline also implies that we defeated the Witness, otherwise Saint wouldnt be able to have a speech, thanks to the final shape and all.
Its seems that Cayde wasnt wished back, and as such our Ghost would be gone, after which we would die our final death sometime later.
Bastion is gonna get superbuffed 🗣️🗣️
But at the same time it was declared that bastion was our favourite weapon in that future. So while it was _a_ future, it might not be _the_ future.
No, the sword was what we were buried with, we just ripped the core out of it and shoved it into Bastion, we never saw bastion before then
The sword is in Zavala’s office
There was no verification that was our grave
4 years..... 4 years..... 4 YEARS!!!!! FUCK. Im old. Thought that shit was last year.
We chose our own path in the end
Bro i should have not seen this high😂😂😂
I legit thought it was the witness playing tricks on us cause he was basically the first knife but I’m guessing I’m wrong
The point of giving us this sword and having us live is to signify that guardians make their own fate. Canonically this is the sword we brought to fight the witness and we lived
Maybe we defied fate as our ghost died at the end but got revived
I believe that was going to be our fate after defeating the witness because we didnt have a ghost. But as Cayde-6 says "nobody makes my fate but me" when he gave his light for our ghost allowed us to make our own fate, one where we dont end up in that grave.
I knew it as soon as I heard there was a special ammo sword, I knew this cause I remember thinking “we were buried with our favorite sword?? Swords are garbage lmfao they better release something good” and then the moment I heard special ammo sword I was like “oh this is gonna be the sword” 😎 glad to see they did something cool with it
My theory is that in that timeline, cade was not brought back and therefore was not able to save our ghost so we became mortal for a time and wielded the sword in his honor (hence the ghost pommel) until we eventually died
It shows that same grave in the campaign, with that sword on it
That's why the Guardian(Player) didn't shoot at her/his Ghost when he/she remembered they went to see their own future grave. Now they have swords, and their ghosts are all alright.
I wasn't playing then but yes I did recognize it was that sword when I saw it
My theory is that the corridors of time was unable to predict Cayde sacrificing himself for us and therefore predicted that we would die after our ghost was sapped of its light.
DESCARTES SWORD GOES CRAZY!!! Good of Bungo to bring it back and bring about speculation of the ending
My friend pointed out that if crow never made that wish to bring cayde back we would’ve died later one but since cayde brought our ghost back we weren’t lightless
I doubt we are gonna die. Some bs plot armor is gonna save us, probably mara or the traveler will save us.
CAN'T KILL ME IF I DISMANTLE IT, HA!
Saw it and said fuck man we dying soon
I picked up on it when I watched the final cutscene.
Im pretty sure this is an alternate timeline. Its a timeline similar to D1 but instead of our character living and surviving after oryx, the witness kills them. Hence the sword is one of the elemental edge weapons.
The reason for this being what I believe to be true is that when that mission dropped only player who transfered accounts from D1 could play that particular mission. Otherwise it was skipped.
Yeah. Noticed it almost immediately
Four years.
I noticed this before.
Yeah I figure that would be the sword too when I saw it
believe me or don't but I called this months ago, that we would use the "Time Sword" to literally slice through the Darkness around The Witness... I did also then say we would have to fall for it to fit perfectly but I was half right at least :)