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If this set had been on New Capenna it would have been a smash hit. However.... Another way they could have run it was having an Omen Path open up between New Capenna and Ravnica. Have a gangs vs guilds type of set. Seeing how at the end of War of the Spark we saw a lot, if not all, the guilds uniting into three color factions. The murder could have been what triggered a war between the two groups of organizations.
I feel like its worth mentioning that satisfying world building is NOT just shoehorning recurring characters back into every set. I wish they'd break away from all that.
Part of why I'm excited for Bloomburrow. I'm not a big Redwall person, but it feels like a return to the vibe of Lorwyn with original concepts playing off of tropes, instead of 90% trope and 10% original.
Which is part of why it feels like Fortnite, or a Hanna Barbera cartoon. Haha look now [marketable character] is in a funny cowboy hat because he's a cowboy! Don't you get it? they're lassoing now and saying yeehaw! Have a Marvel-tier pun or joke as the flavor text! There's nothing wrong with using characters that we've seen or having them travel to new places, its an important storytelling device, but the way its done makes it feel like a dumb joke or episode of a nickelodeon cartoon instead of the living, breathing worlds and planes that Magic has always been about. It's just grating and honestly borderline insulting how much they harangued the gimmick in OTJ and ESPECIALLY in MKM, in my opinion.
@@Wingnut202 tbf, it seems like Thunder Junction has a little bit more going on in the background, but the worldbuilding wasn't a focus in the story and didn't come through in the cards much.
Yup. Every time I see I see Liliana, Jayce et al in a new set I cringe. They kind of harm suspension of disbelief. I’m not discovering a new plane. They are. And they beat me to it and are already there.
There were more detectives in MKM than dinosaurs in lost Caverns. A singular set had more detectives then there are werewolves across 7 DIFFERENT INNISTRAD SETS.
I was honestly annoyed when they added detective as a creature type. Not because I have a problem with new creature types, but because when I heard the title of the set, I was hoping for rogues, assassins, spies, thieves, scouts, etc. Making them all detectives felt so unnecessary to homogenize them into a new creature type at the expense of creature type variety, and instead there were painfully few of any of the other types.
@@SomeOfTheJuice Yeah, but detective is also a super-niche type overall. I mean, any of the types you mentioned could arguably encompass a variety of people. Detective is literally just the name of one single profession, and it's extremely narrow of a descriptor.
@@SomeOfTheJuice A better idea would be like the Outlaw thing in TJ. Outlaws include 4-5 creature types so synergy is super easy. Maybe instead of detective, they could say "lawful creatures" or something and include soldiers, advisors, and whatever else
One of the things that bugged me about Murders at Markov Manor is if you watch or read old pulp detective stories, there is usually 1 detective. Not 37 running around in the story. They should have made like 1 detective per guild plus a neutral one, and had lots of “suspect”creatures
It's kind of bizarre. The kind of structure they're going for reminds me more of something like a slockly death game (victims we care about, a very large quirky cast, tonial whiplash). Which. Is a choice. But it's not the kind of thing you would call noir. It has that vibe of a parady made without love for the source material.
The detectives definitely needed to be integrated more into the Guilds. Not exist as this weird offshoot organization that has no connection to the signature facet of Ravnica's world-building. _Of course_ the Guilds would have their own internal investigators to deal with crimes or mysteries.
@@japonianoMaybe they also didn't like that we just had New Capenna. But they were so excited about detectives they couldn't wait another 1 or 2 years... ?
For me, the number one reason for Karlov Manor failing is the lack of a break in the story. You can't have a murder mystery if you can open the victim, the twist, and the answer in your first booster of the set.
It didn't help that WotC put out that video to introduce ppl to the themes and mechanics of the video that blatantly spoiled the murder mystery before the story was even finished releasing. I had been waiting until the full story was out to read the story just to get spoiled by a video that in no way seemed like it was going to spoil anything lol. I honestly didn't bother reading the story for the set after that.
On one hand, fair and agreed. On the other hand, a murder mystery isn’t enough to cover two sets, and we’ve seen from experience that tiny sets meant to separate the end of the story from the bulk of it are. Not a great idea. So I’m not sure what the answer was. I think a murder case and investigation in general isn’t a bad background for a MtG set; I just don’t know how to make it a “mystery” for the players.
Yeah, they should really, like, distribute the accompanying fiction of a set ahead of the first look so that it's finished before cards get shown so that anyone who cares has ample opportunity to read it, instead their current policy of [checks notes] ... Hmm.
The trenchcoats and fedoras look was bizarre, but I feel like we do need to set the record straight: The first Ravnica block story was ALL ABOUT detectives. Agrus Kos was entirely playing out a cop show story with all the cliches--his drug addiction, him holding himself responsible for his partner, being told he's too close to this case, the whole bit.
Detective. Singular. I did have a section in here about Agrus I had to cut for time, but in short, he was a singular investigator defined more by being a ex-soldier than a "Private Eye", it focussed on a singular character not 50+ detectives, and he didn't dress up in a trenchcoat and fedora.
@@TolarianCommunityCollege It really feels like everyone is ignoring the whole "Our friends and family gets murdered and nobody bats an eye, but Teys Karlov dies and suddenly it's a big to-do? Guess we'll have to investigate ourselves!" angle.
@@Badbufonyes, investigation should be done by Boros/Azorius guild, not by some random guys. I don't believe guilds allow to emerge so powerful organization.
He is clearly saying Markov on purpose. It's supposed to be funny. I don't see how it's a joke or how it's funny at all, but you don't say it wrong 50 times in your video while having the correct name in the thumbnail without it being intentional. Maybe it isn't a joke. Maybe he did it for exactly the comments we are writing. The algorithm demands engagement.
Some minor corrections about Bloomburrow: 1. Bria and Byrke are from a starter kit, so they're probably not indicative of power level or complexity. 2. Bloomburrow only has a "light" kindred mechanical theme. Each color pair does have a critter type, and the set is indeed designed so that you can make a cohesive deck by drafting creatures of that type, which should make it very new player friendly. However, this is going to primarily work by giving creatures of the same type similar mechanical themes that make them synergize with the same strategy rather than actually requiring/benefitting creatures of that type. For example Boros will mechanically be an equipment deck, tis just that all the mice in the set will be designed to synergize with equipment. (I do appreciate you using the word "kindred" though, because "typal" just sounds lame)
I wish you mentioned something about Lost Caverns of Ixalan’s worldbuilding, as the whopping 20,000 word Planeswalker’s guide put so much about the world for us to love, and it expanded the world that people really liked on top of a great set.
One of the issues I had with MKM, flavour-wise, was that "murder mystery" as a theme doesn't mesh with the concept of a game of Magic being a battle between clashing planeswalkers. We're supposed to be summoning armies to send into battle against our enemies - solving cases, looking for clues, and starting up a detective agency in the middle of that simply doesn't go. And yes, Bloomburrow is quite possibly the most excited I've been for a new Magic set in years. I've gotten so fatigued at them just throwing anything and everything at us just to find something that might stick, Bloomburrow feels like an actual, cohesive creation that they've dedicated real time and effort to. I also love that it feels more like a more traditional fantasy setting - traditional fantasy has always been my jam, and I'm relishing a return to that style at last.
I think one of the factors that will make bloomburrow a super beloved set is its focus on supporting creature types that don’t currently have buildable decks in commander. People LOVE typal decks
Prof hits home with the Redwall influence being another driving factor for me personally, I remember reading the books and watching the cartoon series when I was a kid, was a massive redwall nerd so Bloomburrow hits me right in the nostalgia. I've always loved those sort of settings, why I like Hollow Knight so much because it combines my two loves, human style worlds inhabited by tiny creatures and exploring decaying worlds past their greatness ala a lot of the Soulsborne series.
MaRo has said repeatedly that Bloomburrow will not be a typal focused set. But everyone keeps talking about typal with it. I worry the wrong expectations are being set...
@@DJK5364 I can't remember the name of the video, but in it a Magic designer spoke about how the Lorwyn block was a confusing draft environment because players would often be stuck with a hand full of tribal cards that they didn't know what to do with- something that was particularly frustrating in Limited because there isn't really a clear goal with how each tribe wants to win. With how EDH has been influenced by tribal mechanics in the last few years I think they are putting a lot more thought into how each card interacts with one another rather than stapling Tribal to their relevant cards.
>detective set with sherlock hats and fedoras >cowboy set with cowboy hats (also with NO revolvers) >haunted house set >racing set Bloomburrow seems to be most normal in a streak of five sets, the other 4 are meme sets.
My friends didn't want to play Markov Manor because they didn't like the theme. It felt like "Oh, they're making this because they want to sell the Clue crossover" and that feels kind of gross.
Wizards: "We want to do a murder mystery set in the style of noire film and pulp detective novels, but we need a plane to set it on!" *Glances at New Capenna, the actual 20's/30's themed plane full of crime syndicates* Wizards: "I'm going to ignore that."
@@KynElwynn *were* no police. There's angels all over the place now; 'they set up a law enforcement organization' isn't any more of a stretch than 'everyone on Ravnica suddenly dresses in 1920s noir fashions'
There's a pretty strong theory that they initially intended this set to take place on New Capenna but it was not a very well liked set so they changed it to the player's favourite plane
I play exclusively Gladiator, where I only need one of something to be a playset, and it's STILL eating all my mythic WCs! I can't imagine what the 60/4 players are going through.
BIG score is honestly criminal, I might quit if wotc pulls this off again. Both in paper and arena it's been frustrating. In paper they're scarce enough to be low inventory at stores and prone to crazy spikes (see cage and synthesizer) and arena they're as you said.
I was actually quite happy with that because I get the choice of spending mythic wildcards on reprints that were previously rare, and I had almost 20 of those lying around. Might be an Explorer/Pioneer thing, but rare wildcards feel so scarce.
@@eduardoserpa1682seriously, right? Most decks seem to use tons of Rares, but not many Mythics. So ironically, Mythics are typically rather easy for me to craft at any time (Though I play Standard, and I only have 2 decks right now… The vast majority of decks just require way too many Rares 😅)
I feel the same, but to be frank, Ixalan is kind of a meme set, so is bloomburrow if I think about it, and duskmourn seems also like a meme set. Like everything adopting a tropey genre that isn't that original fantasy setting or is a bit more originally designed I'd probably call a meme, since I hate lazy art direction.
@@fragtore6457 The original Ixalan would be what I would consider the beginning of the meme sets, like "hey it's dinosaurs, you like dinosaurs right?! and pirates!" Although I would say they at least put some effort into doing their own thing, contrary to murders at karlov manor and outlaws at thunder junction
I find the idea that Ravnica could be swept up in a new fashion trend way more believable than the idea that people from all over the multiverse all independently decided to wear the same hat
Especially when it's people working in the same profession, giving them even more reason to follow a trend so they look like they belong among their peers.
@@cherry9787 I believe this to be more about how it used to be one big set and two minor sets. I have my doubts about whether GRN, RNA + WAR or MID + VOW suffered from the same problems considering they are by all means (besides "meant to be drafted together") multi-set blocks.
I miss a lot of things. I started when Invasion came out. I quit about a year and a half ago and don't see myself ever returning. The game is a hollow shell of what it use to be in practically every way.
All I'm praying for in Bloomburrows is some more spiders for my Shelob commander deck. The classic big toughness and reach is getting a little old and Shelob turning creatures into food artifacts and buffing spiders felt like a breath of fresh air for the creepy crawlies.
funnily enough it was the thunder junction epilogue story that got me back into magic. i enjoyed the character dynamic between jace and vraska enough to join a prerelease and get obsessed with mtg after a nearly 2 year break. now im spending so much money completing a kamigawa theme cube, my first cube ;o;
For me the epilogue was the final straw. Not because of character interaction, that was fine, but the fact that it was so silly and WotC is scared to put stakes in its storytelling. But to each their own. Glad you found enjoyment out of what I could not.
I am so excited about Bloomburrow! I already know I will get all of the recon's and probably a play booster box as well! The art reminds me of one of my favorite indie games, The Night of the Rabbit. It has a town called Mousewood, that feels a lot like these pictures so far. I just love it so much!
MKM was my first ever favorite set, in part because I love murder mysteries and I joined in Eldraine. When it came out I was so surprised that no one was excited about it. I thought it was very fun and interactive to draft, with fewer bombs and the really cool disguise mechanic! That’s just me and my friends though, so good for us that the boxes are cheaper :3
It's honestly a good set, I liked the limited quite a bit and the surveil lands are probably going to be the most important cards from a standard set for quite some time.
If WOTC could work with Brian Jacques estate and Troy Howell to do a Redwall Secret Lair when Bloomburrow... They could be some of the most beautiful Magic cards ever printed!
Cowboys prerelease was one of the best MTG experiences I've ever had, everyone was wearing cowboy hats and speaking like a cowboy, got a lot of howdies lmao. Every round start the owner had everyone yell YEEEEEEEHAWWWW. I played Red green black and went 3-0 on my matches(6-1 on games)
Went Won, Drew, lost at my draft night but unlike Markov manor it really felt like my deck was cohesive, a red/blue/black crime focused set which, if I got the combo on the field, really begun to pop off, giving things -3/-0, tapping things, pinging things, it all felt very good and I only needed 2-3 mana to get the combos going (the 1 cost 1/1 flying owl that taps a target creature is damn good). Compared to Karlov Manor and my attempt at a disguise deck just failing miserably because, as the prof said, if you get mana stalled it basically fucks you over for the rest of the game. Then you saw people with plot decks really pop off, lost my third game to a very well built plot deck.
Agreed. I don't mind the vast majority of the random visitors, but Marchesa definitely felt super out of place. As far as I know she's still the queen, right? Why does she need to start doing crimes in Thunder Junction? Maybe if there'd been some storyline about her wanting to conquer it or something, but that's totally not the case, she's just a random "hey remember this character?" add-in.
I actually don't mind from a flavor perspective. What makes it the Wild West isn't just the aesthetic, but the idea that all these people from across the planes are realizing the potential of the Omenpaths and are exploring for the first time, and Thunder Junction just happened to be a place where a lot of paths lead to. It's a bit strange that everyone immediately adopted the local attire, but it's not so much of a stretch for world leaders to be checking it out when you have (in the story at least) Ral Zarek there looking to install an interplanar telegraph/telephone system, spreading the influence of the Izzet League beyond Ravnica. Which is ironic, since it's a better showing of Ravnican guild politics than Markov Manor had.
MKM and the Clue theme is what got me back into the hobby when it was annouced. Then I proceeded to buy ravnica remastered, mkm, fallout and OTJ so don't discount the long term implications.
Thanks for the video prof! My friends and I have recently got into magic a few months ago and you’ve been our go to guy for all things magic. Keep up the great work and we hope you get 1 million on the channel asap!
Karlov Manor was so pedestrian and insignificant feeling. Previous sets showed off entirely new planes/ returned to longtime fan favourites or continued cool ideas like Phyrexia. Karlov felt like a budgeted hearthstone add on. A bunch of characters in some house with murder mystery as the theme, and a bunch of clue tokens for the gameplay. Oh but wait its technically on Ravnica so it should be a sales explosion right? Ugh
@@captawesome42 What story? A person died in a realm where death isnt a big deal and everyones wearing fedoras/trenchcoats WOOOW. Expansions should deliver an exciting premise from the moment you form an impression of them. Ixalan? Exploring ruins and dinosaurs! Eldraine? Fairy tale high fantasy with kingdoms and knights and mystic creatures! Karlov? A murder mystery! In a house! With fedoras and trenchcoats I guess...
Budget hearthstone mini-expansion really IS an apt for this, especially since Hearthstone had their own murder mystery set come out two years ago with Murder at Castle Nyathria...
No one around me wanted to buy Tunder, the aesthetics don't tell us anything outside the US. There is a very simple explanation. There are good cards. And good reprints. There are no more secrets.
There's also a Redwall animated series which is...surprisingly close to the books. Theres a reason it got nicknamed 'Game of Thrones for kids' when people went back to watch it recently.
But Agrus _was_ a police detective, he wasn't some random-ass private investigator who just so happened to become famous. The Boros investigated crimes because, surprise surprise, that's what the police has to do in order to solve cases - at its core, it was a fantasy action story with mystery elements that came from the villains' schemes, it wasn't a "detective story".
nailed it, when me and my friends started playing Return to Ravnica had came out that year, and pretty much was the only expansion i was enthralled with. Haven't played in over a decade, but my cousin wanted to know about the game, so i got some bloomburrow decks for me and my wife and i gotta say, these are so inviting, it was so hard to look at magic without looking through the "guilds of ravnica" lens but this whole aesthetic has a charm that i can get behind, and with that being said, i am now looking to get a couple of the Outlaws decks lol
I don’t believe people cared that MKM was detectives set rather than a Ravnica set, people weren’t high on the story or themes of OTJ either. MKM was just a bad limited set (Disguise) and weak constructed cards, so there was no reason to open it. OTJ has amazing limited, and powerful and rare constructed cards. I think that’s it, full stop.
Thankfully so. I mean, I do care about the story at least a bit and about the card art especially, and I would have been bummed had good mechanics come from MKM - because then that would have meant missing out on decent cards if I didn't want to compromise on the flavor, which - I will stand by it - is terrible in MKM. OTJ, while also being corny and not that great flavor-wise, is at least not as egregious as MKM. So in that regard, at least I can be happy that the cards I want are largely not out of MKM. And I hope wotc doesn't adapt your philosophy of card design, which ultimately equates to just creating mechanically interesting cards. They should value art and story also, for the players that do care about the flair of the game.
Exactly. The draft format was miserable. The prof is 180 degrees off here. It had little to do with the story/flavor. It was just a miserable draft format…especially following up Ravnica remastered.
It's been awhile since I got hyped for a set, but this BloomBurrow is really making me rethink going back to Arena. The last time I got exceited was on Doctor Who.
I recently got back into magic through mtg arena, and I didn't even know Karlov Manor was a Ravnica set, and I am a massive Ravnica fan. That seems like a huge problem.
Not a MTG player, loving your channel. But I help out a lot at my local card shop, and when Murders at Markov came out the Magic scene didnt come out a single time, maybe for a pack or so, but most of the time they just bought sleeves and no one played in events for Markov. However Junction on the other hand did get a bit of traction. People came out for the draft, and actually bought product. This video explained a lot!
As someone recently returning to MtG, I am so happy to see a set that returns to good old fashioned fantasy elements and world building. The art and stories they've release so far for Bloomburrow have me very excited for it to release.
I recently coerced my fiancee to try and learn to play as a fun couples activity. She is absolutely ecstatic about Bloomburrow, which in turn makes me ecstatic since that might mean I get to play more haha.
The collation was really good in my box. Complete set of Uncommons, close to 3x set of Commons, less than 30 cards in excess of the above. Perfect for a set cube.
@@gaebril131 Very heartened to hear this! Putting together a 1r/2u/3c draft sim is how I'd like to approach bloomburrow. Sometimes it can be a huge headache getting the last 20% of commons and uncommons when the box has a shitty collation.
Same, really looking forward to it, even if it was a bad set, I mean I'd be a bit sad but that wasn't going to stop me getting cards. Karlov Manor was a case of 'love the theme...found the cards very boring' and thus once I'd done my one draft of it at the FLGS, I just didn't pick up any more booster packs.
around here, both murders and outlaws are pretty comparable. well... as far as play boosters are concerned. I know this, considering I bought into murders quite a bit.
I am not even that big of a vorthos but... the first ravnica was a mistery story and the main character was agrus kos, a boros detective. The story of the set has internal coherence, for those who cared enough to follow it: Trostani has been killing people for months, people has been dying in mysterious ways, but as they were only guildless and people society didn't care about, they didn't matter to the guilds... but that is why there are so many detectives going around, with the agency over it: there have been that many murders. I agree that all of this is not referenced in the cards, and that is a big miss. But the coherence and flavor is there, it just was badly translated to the cards and gameplay. It usually happens on top-down sets. The hats were indeed too much.
When you don't care about the story or it just feels thrown together that is a flavor fail. Art style and story have become important to me as I don't need more cards and can't afford to buy boxes like I used to. When I had to be reminded that Manor took place on Ravnica I knew there was a failure to launch. I like a lot of the cards but most come off as boring.
I bought two boxes of OTJ at my lgs tonight and my wife and I both got one. Spent the night opening them up and making a deck. It’s been very fun. The mechanics are cool and overall I’ve been happy. Skipped MKM
@@devononair “enters” will always mean battlefield. If it enters the grave it will say “enters the graveyard” for clarification. Also “dies” means “enters the grave from the battlefield”
I've been following Bloomburrow since its teaser. I read Redwall as a kid and I could not be more exited for a set that evokes a similarly cutesy, but genuine world.
Seeing someone talk about War of the Spark just makes me sad about the most recent phyrexian ark which had all the villains easily killed, no real lasting impact as planeswalkers were just magically made human and no planes ended up being lost. That arks ending hurt with how it had no real risk to main characters
It does feel weird that pretty much any big impact the Phyrexian multiverse war had....has been completely undone. All the Planeswalkers are fine, if some of them are depowered. Perhaps it's because we haven't visited a plane that was majorly hit by the invasion. Ixalan basically had the Phyrexians countered because 'massive fuggin dinosaurs' the same way Ikoria did, Ravnica seemed to do just fine and Thunder Junction, Bloomburrow and Duskhaven are new planes we've not been to before. We haven't seen any of the 'hard hit' planes like Theros where a lot of their gods got Phyrexianified and killed etc.
@luketfer in Thunder Junction's defense, it was practically empty before the omenpaths opened up and folks used it as a multiversal trading post. The vault Oko is after predating most everything else, it seems like.
@@luketferI do agree with the lack of overall impact after the Phyrexian invasion. The praetors being killed off so easily, Vorinclex decapitated by a nobody, and Jinny G basically slipping on a bana peel and falling into tank treads when he could have acted more in-character and not been on the front lines. I could go on about the oil just... not doing anything once Norn died.
Not that this isn't an accurate description of how the Phyrexian arc went, but this exact complaint was leveled at War of the Spark back in the day. No confirmed named planeswalker deaths except Gideon, Domri and Dack (who didn't even have a card in the set) really rubbed some people the wrong way.
War of the Spark and the Phyrexian saga wanted to have the show-stopping Infinity War/Endgame style 'EVERYTHING is happening, this is HUGE, ALL your favourite characters are here!' style story, but were too cowardly to actually follow-through on the premise. They wanted to have their cake and eat it, too.
I disagree with the too many detectives part. Its a typal theme and a major theme in both blue/white and blue/black in the set, AND its a brand new creature type. Can you imagine if they made this big new detective mattes set of cards and there were like 20 detectives total? Itd be awful.
Naah, any changes to the status quo are forbidden no matter how much sense they would make, thus says the Professor. Ravnica didn't have detectives before so they never can.
Thunder Junction got me to purchased a wizards of the coast product for the first time since the original ixalan. And the idea of a boros mouse commander deck has definitely caught my attention. If it weren't for the professor, though, I wouldn't have known about the existence of either. Thanks professor!
I still cant get over the fact that they chose Ravnica if all places. Aplane with 2 necromancer guilds and the Boros has dedicated detetive officers. And if they didnt want to the Azorius couldve! The Orzhov couldve just resurrected her and said "Who did it". And to top it all off NEW CAPENNA WAS RIGHT FUCKING THERE. A set literally made for this and they just didnt. A story about a detective trying to solve a murder while fighting the family, or families, trying to stop them. It couldve been good! But they wanted a quick cash grab.
Only casually interested in MTG, but wanted to say I love that you mentioned Redwall! I adored the books as a child and it was my first thought seeing some of the artwork. Kudos to you Prof ❤
As a new comer to Magic, and MKM being the first set I started with, there was definitely a learning curve. It took me a few times of reconfiguring decks to create synergy and a clear win condition. Overall I don’t hate it and I’m grateful that I have cards to play with. I’m hoping by starting with this set it will give me an edge when I’m able to purchase a new set with less confusing mechanics to build with. I just built a new commander deck with Judith, Connoisseur of Carnage and I look forward to seeing how it performs next time my play group meets up for commander.
Lol i opened karlov manner boosters and was like “i hate this collecting evidence thing” then when thunder junction came out i was like “hehe crimes are fun”
I was wondering what it was about Murder at Karlov Manor that made it so uninteresting to me as a Magic set (aside from the cards) and this summed it up perfectly
After watching: I think there's a decent chance MKM will end up considered underrated, and OTJ overrated. Why? Obvious power vs synergistic, conditional, or niche power. Obvious power is obvious. Everyone can see it. Everyone can build around it. Everyone can pick up a single. Everyone can sigh when they see it played *again*, or just shrug and remove it on sight. Most will agree on whether obvious power is auto-include, or power crept out. Synergistic, conditional, and niche power is the kind of thing that makes people discuss. Is it even good? What deck does it go in? Hey have you heard of this? No, omg that fits perfectly in my deck! Oh wait, what does that do? Oh damn, I've never seen that card/combo/situation before! People that like to brew love this kind of power. It takes a long time for opinion to settle, if it ever does, and then someone comes up with something new that changes perceptions anyway. I think opinion on OTJ cards will settle and for the most part, we'll move on. Good, or bad, either way, next. MKM has a bunch of cards that are gonna pop up every now and then and be interesting when they do.
I know MKM has big worldbuilding flaws (no more than OTJ, IMO) but I really really enjoyed the limited environment. Had some of the best draft games ever.
The theme of Karlov Manor was destroyed for me the moment I drew my first legendary from the set. It was Teysa, alive and well. "Wait, doesn't this set start with her death? Why is she now in it?" Then again: "A yes, Orzov. Death means nothing." Then again: "... then why is everyone making such a drama?" I like the detective and disguise mechanics though. An added morph mechanic is nice and I like a lot of the cards (the Clue crossover was a bit too obvious though) Can't care for Thunder Junction much as Cowboys doesn't really feel like Magic anymore (neither do Detectives, but at least it's on a known plane I guess?) Looking forward to bloomborrow though. Squirrel Commander Deck incoming!
Straight up. Bloomburrow is the most excited I've been for a set in years. Maybe decades. The visuals we've seen so far look spectacular. The story set up we've gotten so far looks intriguing. And a set based around under represented tribes (that also happen to be cute animals) is gonna be a home run.
I agree with a lot of this points in the video, especially a lot of the commentary related to set flavor. That being said, I am primarily a competitive limited player and couldn't disagree more with the statement that OTJ is a better draft set than MKM. In my opinion MKM is one of the best limited environments ever created, at least for competitive play. I do agree with Prof here that the meta is a bit more complicated than most limited sets and does require more knowledge of the combat tricks and whatnot to excel, so the set isn't ideal for casual players. However, the decision trees in MKM are second to none in terms of competitive play and I think more people should give MKM its flowers for how well that was done. Anywho, love the content prof, and always appreciate your point of view.
It has been so intresting to see these two sets back to back. My first Prerelease ever was MKM and now getting to paly with OTJ the difference is shocking I was excited to purchase the precons from OTJ unlike MKM. I've had fun with both and MKM will hold a place in my heart for being my first full set but I am excited to see what all is commiung down the line.
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Ye was also not a big fan of Murders at Markov Manor
FUCKING KARLOV. IT'S KARLOV MANOR!
@@fleshmagi XD
If this set had been on New Capenna it would have been a smash hit. However.... Another way they could have run it was having an Omen Path open up between New Capenna and Ravnica. Have a gangs vs guilds type of set. Seeing how at the end of War of the Spark we saw a lot, if not all, the guilds uniting into three color factions. The murder could have been what triggered a war between the two groups of organizations.
Final tally:
• Murders at Karlov Manor: 5
• Murders at "Markov" Manor: 24
Thank you. It’s been aggravating me to no end, and I’m only 5 minutes in.
To be fair, Nahiri murdered more vampires at Markov Manor in SoI than there were murders in all of MKM...
THANK YOU! I started counting but then came to the comments to see if anyone had already done that. Take my like
ill get alcohol poisoning XD
Thank you! I'm only 1:30 minutes in, and I came to the comments to see if anyone had commented.
I feel like its worth mentioning that satisfying world building is NOT just shoehorning recurring characters back into every set. I wish they'd break away from all that.
Part of why I'm excited for Bloomburrow. I'm not a big Redwall person, but it feels like a return to the vibe of Lorwyn with original concepts playing off of tropes, instead of 90% trope and 10% original.
Which is part of why it feels like Fortnite, or a Hanna Barbera cartoon. Haha look now [marketable character] is in a funny cowboy hat because he's a cowboy! Don't you get it? they're lassoing now and saying yeehaw! Have a Marvel-tier pun or joke as the flavor text! There's nothing wrong with using characters that we've seen or having them travel to new places, its an important storytelling device, but the way its done makes it feel like a dumb joke or episode of a nickelodeon cartoon instead of the living, breathing worlds and planes that Magic has always been about. It's just grating and honestly borderline insulting how much they harangued the gimmick in OTJ and ESPECIALLY in MKM, in my opinion.
@@Wingnut202 tbf, it seems like Thunder Junction has a little bit more going on in the background, but the worldbuilding wasn't a focus in the story and didn't come through in the cards much.
I agree, and I don't even know anything about the story of MtG!
Yup. Every time I see I see Liliana, Jayce et al in a new set I cringe. They kind of harm suspension of disbelief. I’m not discovering a new plane. They are. And they beat me to it and are already there.
There were more detectives in MKM than dinosaurs in lost Caverns. A singular set had more detectives then there are werewolves across 7 DIFFERENT INNISTRAD SETS.
I was honestly annoyed when they added detective as a creature type. Not because I have a problem with new creature types, but because when I heard the title of the set, I was hoping for rogues, assassins, spies, thieves, scouts, etc. Making them all detectives felt so unnecessary to homogenize them into a new creature type at the expense of creature type variety, and instead there were painfully few of any of the other types.
@@SomeOfTheJuice Yeah, but detective is also a super-niche type overall. I mean, any of the types you mentioned could arguably encompass a variety of people. Detective is literally just the name of one single profession, and it's extremely narrow of a descriptor.
@@SomeOfTheJuice A better idea would be like the Outlaw thing in TJ. Outlaws include 4-5 creature types so synergy is super easy. Maybe instead of detective, they could say "lawful creatures" or something and include soldiers, advisors, and whatever else
@@SomeOfTheJuice But that would have had too much Synergy with Thunder Junction's outlaw mechanic and can't have that!
@@cherry9787 they could have just let advisors/scouts/soldiers be in the "batch group"=detectives. 🤷♂️
One of the things that bugged me about Murders at Markov Manor is if you watch or read old pulp detective stories, there is usually 1 detective. Not 37 running around in the story. They should have made like 1 detective per guild plus a neutral one, and had lots of “suspect”creatures
It's kind of bizarre. The kind of structure they're going for reminds me more of something like a slockly death game (victims we care about, a very large quirky cast, tonial whiplash). Which. Is a choice. But it's not the kind of thing you would call noir. It has that vibe of a parady made without love for the source material.
Murder by Death had multiple detectives though haha
The detectives definitely needed to be integrated more into the Guilds. Not exist as this weird offshoot organization that has no connection to the signature facet of Ravnica's world-building. _Of course_ the Guilds would have their own internal investigators to deal with crimes or mysteries.
What makes it worse is that Wizards already had a template for a mystery set: Shadows Over Innistrad.
But they already had their gimmick wedding set!
Also, it could have been Murder at Markov Manor, which flows off the tongue better. I've made that slip up plenty of times. 24 times even.
Honestly, if this set had been on New Capenna with actually good writing, it would have been heat. A New Capenna Noir set sounds awesome.
New Capenna noir would have been perfect. Gangs have always been a staple of the genre.
I'm pretty sure you'll never see good writing in the MtG universe again
Am I seriously the only person that thinks if an alternative were found, _Fiora_ is the most sensible choice?
The main theory is that MKM was originally in New Capenna, but WotC pushed fedora hats on Ravnica to milk-out the plane's fandom, yet here we are
@@japonianoMaybe they also didn't like that we just had New Capenna. But they were so excited about detectives they couldn't wait another 1 or 2 years... ?
Biggest thing that got my attention to Bloomborrow is the art where the mice is standing bravely against the giant dark wolf. Instant buy in for me.
Its pretty obvious. Cowboys Hats > Detectives Hats.
You are completely right.
Don't forget the boots. Cowboy Boots beat gumshoes.
Man, you work at wizards don’t you 😂😅
I respect that as your opinion but I will always love detective pulp noir over cowboy pulp. Now if it's Eastwood it gets tougher.
Noir could have been so cool but they clown nosed it
It's actually impressive that he was able to ping back from Markov Manor and Karlov Manor at one point before it stayed Markov Manor
He must have Sorin on the brain. I thought that was just a me problem…
I like the comparison of why one set was a success and one was not. Would be an interesting retrospetive series.
Idk why my immediate thought at the idea of a retrospective series with this premise was Legends vs Homelands, but it was.
Seconded!
peeporiot
For me, the number one reason for Karlov Manor failing is the lack of a break in the story. You can't have a murder mystery if you can open the victim, the twist, and the answer in your first booster of the set.
I remember when they were holding Elesh Norn's head up in victory before march of the machine's spoiler season was even finished
I don't think flavor and lore is important enough to boycott a set. long term Markov manor does ok. I stashed a case of play boosters.
It didn't help that WotC put out that video to introduce ppl to the themes and mechanics of the video that blatantly spoiled the murder mystery before the story was even finished releasing. I had been waiting until the full story was out to read the story just to get spoiled by a video that in no way seemed like it was going to spoil anything lol. I honestly didn't bother reading the story for the set after that.
On one hand, fair and agreed. On the other hand, a murder mystery isn’t enough to cover two sets, and we’ve seen from experience that tiny sets meant to separate the end of the story from the bulk of it are. Not a great idea. So I’m not sure what the answer was. I think a murder case and investigation in general isn’t a bad background for a MtG set; I just don’t know how to make it a “mystery” for the players.
Yeah, they should really, like, distribute the accompanying fiction of a set ahead of the first look so that it's finished before cards get shown so that anyone who cares has ample opportunity to read it, instead their current policy of [checks notes] ... Hmm.
The trenchcoats and fedoras look was bizarre, but I feel like we do need to set the record straight: The first Ravnica block story was ALL ABOUT detectives. Agrus Kos was entirely playing out a cop show story with all the cliches--his drug addiction, him holding himself responsible for his partner, being told he's too close to this case, the whole bit.
Detective. Singular. I did have a section in here about Agrus I had to cut for time, but in short, he was a singular investigator defined more by being a ex-soldier than a "Private Eye", it focussed on a singular character not 50+ detectives, and he didn't dress up in a trenchcoat and fedora.
i don't think wotc knows or even cares about it. the plot of the new one is just a meme
@@TolarianCommunityCollege It really feels like everyone is ignoring the whole "Our friends and family gets murdered and nobody bats an eye, but Teys Karlov dies and suddenly it's a big to-do? Guess we'll have to investigate ourselves!" angle.
@@Badbufonyes, investigation should be done by Boros/Azorius guild, not by some random guys. I don't believe guilds allow to emerge so powerful organization.
Funny how the prof also says Markov Manor.. This set is so not Ravnican that we even forget the murder was on Karlov manor.
I think this is also due to RUclips restricting videos if the word "Murder" is used a bunch
He is clearly saying Markov on purpose. It's supposed to be funny. I don't see how it's a joke or how it's funny at all, but you don't say it wrong 50 times in your video while having the correct name in the thumbnail without it being intentional.
Maybe it isn't a joke. Maybe he did it for exactly the comments we are writing.
The algorithm demands engagement.
@@nertak7518he said it was a joke that he was just going to lean into in his previous videos
I've been calling it "Markovs at Karlov Darkov" because I can't be bothered to learn the real name, lol
marklars at marklar marklar
Some minor corrections about Bloomburrow:
1. Bria and Byrke are from a starter kit, so they're probably not indicative of power level or complexity.
2. Bloomburrow only has a "light" kindred mechanical theme. Each color pair does have a critter type, and the set is indeed designed so that you can make a cohesive deck by drafting creatures of that type, which should make it very new player friendly. However, this is going to primarily work by giving creatures of the same type similar mechanical themes that make them synergize with the same strategy rather than actually requiring/benefitting creatures of that type. For example Boros will mechanically be an equipment deck, tis just that all the mice in the set will be designed to synergize with equipment.
(I do appreciate you using the word "kindred" though, because "typal" just sounds lame)
I wish you mentioned something about Lost Caverns of Ixalan’s worldbuilding, as the whopping 20,000 word Planeswalker’s guide put so much about the world for us to love, and it expanded the world that people really liked on top of a great set.
Yes I really love the world of ixalan, one of my fave planes
Wizards treats Ixalan like rubble for no reason
One of the issues I had with MKM, flavour-wise, was that "murder mystery" as a theme doesn't mesh with the concept of a game of Magic being a battle between clashing planeswalkers. We're supposed to be summoning armies to send into battle against our enemies - solving cases, looking for clues, and starting up a detective agency in the middle of that simply doesn't go.
And yes, Bloomburrow is quite possibly the most excited I've been for a new Magic set in years. I've gotten so fatigued at them just throwing anything and everything at us just to find something that might stick, Bloomburrow feels like an actual, cohesive creation that they've dedicated real time and effort to. I also love that it feels more like a more traditional fantasy setting - traditional fantasy has always been my jam, and I'm relishing a return to that style at last.
I think one of the factors that will make bloomburrow a super beloved set is its focus on supporting creature types that don’t currently have buildable decks in commander. People LOVE typal decks
Especially little animal ones.
Prof hits home with the Redwall influence being another driving factor for me personally, I remember reading the books and watching the cartoon series when I was a kid, was a massive redwall nerd so Bloomburrow hits me right in the nostalgia. I've always loved those sort of settings, why I like Hollow Knight so much because it combines my two loves, human style worlds inhabited by tiny creatures and exploring decaying worlds past their greatness ala a lot of the Soulsborne series.
Ditto! When I heard about Bloomburrow my very first thoughts were "Redwall MTG?! Fuck yes!" and "....I hope there is a legendary Badger."@luketfer
MaRo has said repeatedly that Bloomburrow will not be a typal focused set. But everyone keeps talking about typal with it. I worry the wrong expectations are being set...
@@DJK5364 I can't remember the name of the video, but in it a Magic designer spoke about how the Lorwyn block was a confusing draft environment because players would often be stuck with a hand full of tribal cards that they didn't know what to do with- something that was particularly frustrating in Limited because there isn't really a clear goal with how each tribe wants to win. With how EDH has been influenced by tribal mechanics in the last few years I think they are putting a lot more thought into how each card interacts with one another rather than stapling Tribal to their relevant cards.
>detective set with sherlock hats and fedoras
>cowboy set with cowboy hats (also with NO revolvers)
>haunted house set
>racing set
Bloomburrow seems to be most normal in a streak of five sets, the other 4 are meme sets.
Which one is racing set? BTW in places where guns are outlawed, illegal racing or just aggresive behavior on roads cause more death than weapons...
My friends didn't want to play Markov Manor because they didn't like the theme. It felt like "Oh, they're making this because they want to sell the Clue crossover" and that feels kind of gross.
yeah, it felt like hasbro threw their properties at WOTC and said "do something" Can't wait for a Monopoly themed set
@@SpectrumIntruder that one's gonna have 56 creatures with the new 'capitalist' creature type
@@MrHalapino13 "your Purphoros landed on my hotel at Marvin Gardens. I get twelve treasure tokens."
I hate all the universes beyond and crossover crap.
A monopoly set would be heat
I am very excited for Bloomburrow. Magic hasn't been feeling like Magic lately between all of these meme and Universes Beyond sets.
Wizards: "We want to do a murder mystery set in the style of noire film and pulp detective novels, but we need a plane to set it on!"
*Glances at New Capenna, the actual 20's/30's themed plane full of crime syndicates*
Wizards: "I'm going to ignore that."
OMG YES!!! Imagine a murder mystery in New Capenna and it’s something like the Obscura’s Raffine.
Where's the law enforcement on New Capenna to look into a murder? That was the main reason New Capenna wasn't used, there's no police.
@@KynElwynn *were* no police. There's angels all over the place now; 'they set up a law enforcement organization' isn't any more of a stretch than 'everyone on Ravnica suddenly dresses in 1920s noir fashions'
There's a pretty strong theory that they initially intended this set to take place on New Capenna but it was not a very well liked set so they changed it to the player's favourite plane
@@flaetsbnort That's wild to me since New Capenna was the last set I was inspired to go to a prerelease for.
Man I got product fatigued out of magic like 8 months ago but Bloomburrow looks so freaking cool
As an Arena player, Thunder Junction is a mythic wildcard black hole.
Facts.
I play exclusively Gladiator, where I only need one of something to be a playset, and it's STILL eating all my mythic WCs! I can't imagine what the 60/4 players are going through.
BIG score is honestly criminal, I might quit if wotc pulls this off again. Both in paper and arena it's been frustrating. In paper they're scarce enough to be low inventory at stores and prone to crazy spikes (see cage and synthesizer) and arena they're as you said.
I was actually quite happy with that because I get the choice of spending mythic wildcards on reprints that were previously rare, and I had almost 20 of those lying around. Might be an Explorer/Pioneer thing, but rare wildcards feel so scarce.
@@eduardoserpa1682seriously, right? Most decks seem to use tons of Rares, but not many Mythics. So ironically, Mythics are typically rather easy for me to craft at any time
(Though I play Standard, and I only have 2 decks right now… The vast majority of decks just require way too many Rares 😅)
Jup, looks great, sounds great. Didn't know Bloomburrow was coming, but I am excited for first time in a long time after your introduction.
I'm *so* excited for Bloomburrow, and having to suffer through two meme sets in a row to get to it has been so rough
Jawline check
Every set this year is a meme set.
I feel the same, but to be frank, Ixalan is kind of a meme set, so is bloomburrow if I think about it, and duskmourn seems also like a meme set. Like everything adopting a tropey genre that isn't that original fantasy setting or is a bit more originally designed I'd probably call a meme, since I hate lazy art direction.
I'm unironically rereading Redwall through Legend of Luke to prepare myself.
@@fragtore6457 The original Ixalan would be what I would consider the beginning of the meme sets, like "hey it's dinosaurs, you like dinosaurs right?! and pirates!" Although I would say they at least put some effort into doing their own thing, contrary to murders at karlov manor and outlaws at thunder junction
I find the idea that Ravnica could be swept up in a new fashion trend way more believable than the idea that people from all over the multiverse all independently decided to wear the same hat
Especially when it's people working in the same profession, giving them even more reason to follow a trend so they look like they belong among their peers.
I wish so badly we went back to 3 set blocks. I miss being able to live in a plane then just blow by one
yup, agree. plus they just felt way more cohesive from a gameplay and storytelling perspective. whole experience was better.
Supposedly, Wizards' marketing data showed that blocks aren't as successful as the current model 🤷♂️
Three set blocks are too easy to mess up.
Two set blocks are what they should have continued.
@@cherry9787
I believe this to be more about how it used to be one big set and two minor sets. I have my doubts about whether GRN, RNA + WAR or MID + VOW suffered from the same problems considering they are by all means (besides "meant to be drafted together") multi-set blocks.
I miss a lot of things. I started when Invasion came out. I quit about a year and a half ago and don't see myself ever returning. The game is a hollow shell of what it use to be in practically every way.
All I'm praying for in Bloomburrows is some more spiders for my Shelob commander deck. The classic big toughness and reach is getting a little old and Shelob turning creatures into food artifacts and buffing spiders felt like a breath of fresh air for the creepy crawlies.
funnily enough it was the thunder junction epilogue story that got me back into magic. i enjoyed the character dynamic between jace and vraska enough to join a prerelease and get obsessed with mtg after a nearly 2 year break. now im spending so much money completing a kamigawa theme cube, my first cube ;o;
For me the epilogue was the final straw. Not because of character interaction, that was fine, but the fact that it was so silly and WotC is scared to put stakes in its storytelling.
But to each their own. Glad you found enjoyment out of what I could not.
I feel like Murders and Duskmourn should’ve been set in the same plane
I'm so unreasonably excited for bloomburrow and thunder junction took me by surprise with how much I enjoyed it.
I am so excited about Bloomburrow! I already know I will get all of the recon's and probably a play booster box as well! The art reminds me of one of my favorite indie games, The Night of the Rabbit. It has a town called Mousewood, that feels a lot like these pictures so far. I just love it so much!
MKM was my first ever favorite set, in part because I love murder mysteries and I joined in Eldraine. When it came out I was so surprised that no one was excited about it. I thought it was very fun and interactive to draft, with fewer bombs and the really cool disguise mechanic! That’s just me and my friends though, so good for us that the boxes are cheaper :3
It's honestly a good set, I liked the limited quite a bit and the surveil lands are probably going to be the most important cards from a standard set for quite some time.
If WOTC could work with Brian Jacques estate and Troy Howell to do a Redwall Secret Lair when Bloomburrow... They could be some of the most beautiful Magic cards ever printed!
Cowboys prerelease was one of the best MTG experiences I've ever had, everyone was wearing cowboy hats and speaking like a cowboy, got a lot of howdies lmao. Every round start the owner had everyone yell YEEEEEEEHAWWWW. I played Red green black and went 3-0 on my matches(6-1 on games)
Went Won, Drew, lost at my draft night but unlike Markov manor it really felt like my deck was cohesive, a red/blue/black crime focused set which, if I got the combo on the field, really begun to pop off, giving things -3/-0, tapping things, pinging things, it all felt very good and I only needed 2-3 mana to get the combos going (the 1 cost 1/1 flying owl that taps a target creature is damn good). Compared to Karlov Manor and my attempt at a disguise deck just failing miserably because, as the prof said, if you get mana stalled it basically fucks you over for the rest of the game.
Then you saw people with plot decks really pop off, lost my third game to a very well built plot deck.
set retrospectives and deep dives don't happen often enough here! excellent job
The weirdest part of Thunder Junction lore is that Marchesa's there... like, ma'am, you are a queen! What are you doing!?
Vacation.
Wizards dgaf about the story anymore. They got their poor excuse to put any character in any set now.
Sometimes a gal just has to commit some crimes
Agreed. I don't mind the vast majority of the random visitors, but Marchesa definitely felt super out of place. As far as I know she's still the queen, right? Why does she need to start doing crimes in Thunder Junction? Maybe if there'd been some storyline about her wanting to conquer it or something, but that's totally not the case, she's just a random "hey remember this character?" add-in.
I actually don't mind from a flavor perspective. What makes it the Wild West isn't just the aesthetic, but the idea that all these people from across the planes are realizing the potential of the Omenpaths and are exploring for the first time, and Thunder Junction just happened to be a place where a lot of paths lead to. It's a bit strange that everyone immediately adopted the local attire, but it's not so much of a stretch for world leaders to be checking it out when you have (in the story at least) Ral Zarek there looking to install an interplanar telegraph/telephone system, spreading the influence of the Izzet League beyond Ravnica. Which is ironic, since it's a better showing of Ravnican guild politics than Markov Manor had.
MKM and the Clue theme is what got me back into the hobby when it was annouced. Then I proceeded to buy ravnica remastered, mkm, fallout and OTJ so don't discount the long term implications.
Thanks for the video prof! My friends and I have recently got into magic a few months ago and you’ve been our go to guy for all things magic. Keep up the great work and we hope you get 1 million on the channel asap!
Btw how the professor writes its videos is refreshing. Such good linear and easy to follow storytelling.
Karlov Manor was so pedestrian and insignificant feeling. Previous sets showed off entirely new planes/ returned to longtime fan favourites or continued cool ideas like Phyrexia. Karlov felt like a budgeted hearthstone add on.
A bunch of characters in some house with murder mystery as the theme, and a bunch of clue tokens for the gameplay. Oh but wait its technically on Ravnica so it should be a sales explosion right? Ugh
yeah, if you don't read the story or play the game I can totally see how those could be your takeaways from MKM
@@captawesome42 What story? A person died in a realm where death isnt a big deal and everyones wearing fedoras/trenchcoats WOOOW.
Expansions should deliver an exciting premise from the moment you form an impression of them. Ixalan? Exploring ruins and dinosaurs! Eldraine? Fairy tale high fantasy with kingdoms and knights and mystic creatures!
Karlov? A murder mystery! In a house! With fedoras and trenchcoats I guess...
Budget hearthstone mini-expansion really IS an apt for this, especially since Hearthstone had their own murder mystery set come out two years ago with Murder at Castle Nyathria...
@@luketfer Or like Medivhs house party adventure
Have I got *great* news for you about that upcoming plane that’s literally just a spooky mansion
I am so excited for Bloomburrow. I have never been this excited for a set and I've been playing for almost 10 years now.
No one around me wanted to buy Tunder, the aesthetics don't tell us anything outside the US. There is a very simple explanation. There are good cards. And good reprints. There are no more secrets.
New drinking game, take a drink every time Prof says Markov instead of Karlov.
Everyone dies from alcohol poisoning >.>
No thanks. I like having a working liver.
Agreed, I'm super excited for Bloomburrow
I love whoever edits your videos, that Glass Onion bit was hilarious
Well said. I am very excited for Bloomburrow. And your insight on MKM and Outlaws make sense.
Bloomburoghs announcement made me want to pick up the red wall books and I'm so glad that I did
There's also a Redwall animated series which is...surprisingly close to the books. Theres a reason it got nicknamed 'Game of Thrones for kids' when people went back to watch it recently.
The real flavour fail of Thunder Junction is that there are no real guns. Dammit.
The first Ravnica book the Boros guild was the “detective” one. Agrus Kos was not only a “Policeman”.
Thank you! I couldn’t have been the only one who read the books!
But Agrus _was_ a police detective, he wasn't some random-ass private investigator who just so happened to become famous. The Boros investigated crimes because, surprise surprise, that's what the police has to do in order to solve cases - at its core, it was a fantasy action story with mystery elements that came from the villains' schemes, it wasn't a "detective story".
nailed it, when me and my friends started playing Return to Ravnica had came out that year, and pretty much was the only expansion i was enthralled with. Haven't played in over a decade, but my cousin wanted to know about the game, so i got some bloomburrow decks for me and my wife and i gotta say, these are so inviting, it was so hard to look at magic without looking through the "guilds of ravnica" lens but this whole aesthetic has a charm that i can get behind, and with that being said, i am now looking to get a couple of the Outlaws decks lol
I don’t believe people cared that MKM was detectives set rather than a Ravnica set, people weren’t high on the story or themes of OTJ either.
MKM was just a bad limited set (Disguise) and weak constructed cards, so there was no reason to open it.
OTJ has amazing limited, and powerful and rare constructed cards. I think that’s it, full stop.
Absolutely hitting the nail on the head! I dont think even the professor could sum it up better in a few sentences.
OTJ draft is very bomb heavy and very swingy. Some archetypes are unplayable bad like UR.
Thankfully so. I mean, I do care about the story at least a bit and about the card art especially, and I would have been bummed had good mechanics come from MKM - because then that would have meant missing out on decent cards if I didn't want to compromise on the flavor, which - I will stand by it - is terrible in MKM. OTJ, while also being corny and not that great flavor-wise, is at least not as egregious as MKM. So in that regard, at least I can be happy that the cards I want are largely not out of MKM.
And I hope wotc doesn't adapt your philosophy of card design, which ultimately equates to just creating mechanically interesting cards. They should value art and story also, for the players that do care about the flair of the game.
@JohnFromAccounting I've found a fair amount of luck playing UR in limited, if anything it's one of the more popular archetypes I've came into
Exactly. The draft format was miserable. The prof is 180 degrees off here. It had little to do with the story/flavor. It was just a miserable draft format…especially following up Ravnica remastered.
It's been awhile since I got hyped for a set, but this BloomBurrow is really making me rethink going back to Arena. The last time I got exceited was on Doctor Who.
I recently got back into magic through mtg arena, and I didn't even know Karlov Manor was a Ravnica set, and I am a massive Ravnica fan.
That seems like a huge problem.
Loved Redwall. Bloomburrow looks really neat!
Markov Manor!
More like Markdown Manor
@@JesGolbezMark-Oooow! Manor?
Sets so bad one of the largest MTG content creators can't be bothered to say its name correctly lol
Tbh I always make the same mistake lol
I almost wanted to count how many times he said it wrong vs correct.
Not a MTG player, loving your channel. But I help out a lot at my local card shop, and when Murders at Markov came out the Magic scene didnt come out a single time, maybe for a pack or so, but most of the time they just bought sleeves and no one played in events for Markov. However Junction on the other hand did get a bit of traction. People came out for the draft, and actually bought product. This video explained a lot!
Me, hyped for Bloomburrow, hearing its gonna be good according to prof gives even more hype
As someone recently returning to MtG, I am so happy to see a set that returns to good old fashioned fantasy elements and world building. The art and stories they've release so far for Bloomburrow have me very excited for it to release.
Outlaws of Markov Manor Junction (Thunder edition)
I recently coerced my fiancee to try and learn to play as a fun couples activity. She is absolutely ecstatic about Bloomburrow, which in turn makes me ecstatic since that might mean I get to play more haha.
I suspect the Play Boosters saw some major tweaks after their initial reception
The collation was really good in my box. Complete set of Uncommons, close to 3x set of Commons, less than 30 cards in excess of the above. Perfect for a set cube.
@@gaebril131 Very heartened to hear this! Putting together a 1r/2u/3c draft sim is how I'd like to approach bloomburrow. Sometimes it can be a huge headache getting the last 20% of commons and uncommons when the box has a shitty collation.
14:28 boaster pack
I loved RedWall as a kid, this is great news for me!
Same, really looking forward to it, even if it was a bad set, I mean I'd be a bit sad but that wasn't going to stop me getting cards. Karlov Manor was a case of 'love the theme...found the cards very boring' and thus once I'd done my one draft of it at the FLGS, I just didn't pick up any more booster packs.
IMO best thing about Karlov manor is the fetchable Surviel lands.
around here, both murders and outlaws are pretty comparable. well... as far as play boosters are concerned.
I know this, considering I bought into murders quite a bit.
I am not even that big of a vorthos but... the first ravnica was a mistery story and the main character was agrus kos, a boros detective.
The story of the set has internal coherence, for those who cared enough to follow it: Trostani has been killing people for months, people has been dying in mysterious ways, but as they were only guildless and people society didn't care about, they didn't matter to the guilds... but that is why there are so many detectives going around, with the agency over it: there have been that many murders.
I agree that all of this is not referenced in the cards, and that is a big miss. But the coherence and flavor is there, it just was badly translated to the cards and gameplay. It usually happens on top-down sets.
The hats were indeed too much.
When you don't care about the story or it just feels thrown together that is a flavor fail. Art style and story have become important to me as I don't need more cards and can't afford to buy boxes like I used to. When I had to be reminded that Manor took place on Ravnica I knew there was a failure to launch. I like a lot of the cards but most come off as boring.
I thought it was because the kids don’t like Columbo anymore.
yet they loved the resurgence of western, curious eh
Just one more thing before I go...
The story would have been much more satisfying with a Columbo frame than as a whodunnit.
Damn that segue to the factor ad gave me a brilliant idea that I was hoping you were leading up to
I'm super pumped for Bloomburrow
I bought two boxes of OTJ at my lgs tonight and my wife and I both got one. Spent the night opening them up and making a deck. It’s been very fun. The mechanics are cool and overall I’ve been happy. Skipped MKM
I’m happy that they are changing it to “enters” instead of “enters the battlefield”
Eh? But... you can enter the graveyard, land or library... isn't this going to be more ambiguous?
@@devononair “enters” will always mean battlefield. If it enters the grave it will say “enters the graveyard” for clarification. Also “dies” means “enters the grave from the battlefield”
I've been following Bloomburrow since its teaser. I read Redwall as a kid and I could not be more exited for a set that evokes a similarly cutesy, but genuine world.
Seeing someone talk about War of the Spark just makes me sad about the most recent phyrexian ark which had all the villains easily killed, no real lasting impact as planeswalkers were just magically made human and no planes ended up being lost. That arks ending hurt with how it had no real risk to main characters
It does feel weird that pretty much any big impact the Phyrexian multiverse war had....has been completely undone. All the Planeswalkers are fine, if some of them are depowered. Perhaps it's because we haven't visited a plane that was majorly hit by the invasion. Ixalan basically had the Phyrexians countered because 'massive fuggin dinosaurs' the same way Ikoria did, Ravnica seemed to do just fine and Thunder Junction, Bloomburrow and Duskhaven are new planes we've not been to before. We haven't seen any of the 'hard hit' planes like Theros where a lot of their gods got Phyrexianified and killed etc.
@luketfer in Thunder Junction's defense, it was practically empty before the omenpaths opened up and folks used it as a multiversal trading post. The vault Oko is after predating most everything else, it seems like.
@@luketferI do agree with the lack of overall impact after the Phyrexian invasion. The praetors being killed off so easily, Vorinclex decapitated by a nobody, and Jinny G basically slipping on a bana peel and falling into tank treads when he could have acted more in-character and not been on the front lines. I could go on about the oil just... not doing anything once Norn died.
Not that this isn't an accurate description of how the Phyrexian arc went, but this exact complaint was leveled at War of the Spark back in the day. No confirmed named planeswalker deaths except Gideon, Domri and Dack (who didn't even have a card in the set) really rubbed some people the wrong way.
War of the Spark and the Phyrexian saga wanted to have the show-stopping Infinity War/Endgame style 'EVERYTHING is happening, this is HUGE, ALL your favourite characters are here!' style story, but were too cowardly to actually follow-through on the premise. They wanted to have their cake and eat it, too.
I disagree with the too many detectives part. Its a typal theme and a major theme in both blue/white and blue/black in the set, AND its a brand new creature type. Can you imagine if they made this big new detective mattes set of cards and there were like 20 detectives total? Itd be awful.
I mean, maybe the high crime rate in Ravnica spurred the need for a crime squad?
Naah, any changes to the status quo are forbidden no matter how much sense they would make, thus says the Professor. Ravnica didn't have detectives before so they never can.
Thunder Junction got me to purchased a wizards of the coast product for the first time since the original ixalan. And the idea of a boros mouse commander deck has definitely caught my attention. If it weren't for the professor, though, I wouldn't have known about the existence of either. Thanks professor!
I still cant get over the fact that they chose Ravnica if all places. Aplane with 2 necromancer guilds and the Boros has dedicated detetive officers. And if they didnt want to the Azorius couldve! The Orzhov couldve just resurrected her and said "Who did it". And to top it all off NEW CAPENNA WAS RIGHT FUCKING THERE. A set literally made for this and they just didnt. A story about a detective trying to solve a murder while fighting the family, or families, trying to stop them. It couldve been good! But they wanted a quick cash grab.
I was basically ambivalent about this set until I read this comment, now I'm also upset that it wasn't in new capenna 😩
I've always thought of the Lorwyn esthetic when I think MTG. Bloomburrow looks amazzzing!❤
MKM was too complex to draft with my friends. That for me is the big mistake. Didn't bother buying a box.
Only casually interested in MTG, but wanted to say I love that you mentioned Redwall! I adored the books as a child and it was my first thought seeing some of the artwork. Kudos to you Prof ❤
when I heard Bloomburrow name mention I perked up like a dog who heard you mention bacon, I'm so excited for critter world
As a new comer to Magic, and MKM being the first set I started with, there was definitely a learning curve. It took me a few times of reconfiguring decks to create synergy and a clear win condition. Overall I don’t hate it and I’m grateful that I have cards to play with. I’m hoping by starting with this set it will give me an edge when I’m able to purchase a new set with less confusing mechanics to build with. I just built a new commander deck with Judith, Connoisseur of Carnage and I look forward to seeing how it performs next time my play group meets up for commander.
Lol i opened karlov manner boosters and was like “i hate this collecting evidence thing” then when thunder junction came out i was like “hehe crimes are fun”
I was wondering what it was about Murder at Karlov Manor that made it so uninteresting to me as a Magic set (aside from the cards) and this summed it up perfectly
After watching: I think there's a decent chance MKM will end up considered underrated, and OTJ overrated.
Why? Obvious power vs synergistic, conditional, or niche power.
Obvious power is obvious. Everyone can see it. Everyone can build around it. Everyone can pick up a single. Everyone can sigh when they see it played *again*, or just shrug and remove it on sight. Most will agree on whether obvious power is auto-include, or power crept out.
Synergistic, conditional, and niche power is the kind of thing that makes people discuss. Is it even good? What deck does it go in? Hey have you heard of this? No, omg that fits perfectly in my deck! Oh wait, what does that do? Oh damn, I've never seen that card/combo/situation before! People that like to brew love this kind of power. It takes a long time for opinion to settle, if it ever does, and then someone comes up with something new that changes perceptions anyway.
I think opinion on OTJ cards will settle and for the most part, we'll move on. Good, or bad, either way, next. MKM has a bunch of cards that are gonna pop up every now and then and be interesting when they do.
I know MKM has big worldbuilding flaws (no more than OTJ, IMO) but I really really enjoyed the limited environment. Had some of the best draft games ever.
The theme of Karlov Manor was destroyed for me the moment I drew my first legendary from the set.
It was Teysa, alive and well. "Wait, doesn't this set start with her death? Why is she now in it?"
Then again: "A yes, Orzov. Death means nothing."
Then again: "... then why is everyone making such a drama?"
I like the detective and disguise mechanics though. An added morph mechanic is nice and I like a lot of the cards (the Clue crossover was a bit too obvious though)
Can't care for Thunder Junction much as Cowboys doesn't really feel like Magic anymore (neither do Detectives, but at least it's on a known plane I guess?)
Looking forward to bloomborrow though. Squirrel Commander Deck incoming!
Will just say, no the set doesn't start with her death. It starts with Zeganas
Well, it doesn't start with her death, so a card showing her being alive doesn't really ruin anything
Straight up.
Bloomburrow is the most excited I've been for a set in years. Maybe decades.
The visuals we've seen so far look spectacular.
The story set up we've gotten so far looks intriguing.
And a set based around under represented tribes (that also happen to be cute animals) is gonna be a home run.
Take a shot every time Karlov manor was said wrong.
I agree with a lot of this points in the video, especially a lot of the commentary related to set flavor. That being said, I am primarily a competitive limited player and couldn't disagree more with the statement that OTJ is a better draft set than MKM. In my opinion MKM is one of the best limited environments ever created, at least for competitive play. I do agree with Prof here that the meta is a bit more complicated than most limited sets and does require more knowledge of the combat tricks and whatnot to excel, so the set isn't ideal for casual players. However, the decision trees in MKM are second to none in terms of competitive play and I think more people should give MKM its flowers for how well that was done. Anywho, love the content prof, and always appreciate your point of view.
Cappenna should have been the plane that happened all that
It has been so intresting to see these two sets back to back. My first Prerelease ever was MKM and now getting to paly with OTJ the difference is shocking I was excited to purchase the precons from OTJ unlike MKM. I've had fun with both and MKM will hold a place in my heart for being my first full set but I am excited to see what all is commiung down the line.
Cowboy hats > detective hats
Pretty spot-on analysis! It does look like Bloomburrow is going to be pretty amazing, I hope it sells really well!
I like Murders.....😅
I’m there too but that might be because I had a blast at prerelease
I really enjoyed it too. It has a lot of issues but I had heaps of fun
Played pre-release for the first time ever using OTJ and I gotta say it was really fun!
I don't like every single relevant creature being legendary
I don’t watch every video but I will say it feels like such a nice call back when I saw the Tolarian Winds intro.