Cybertruck Thermal Management: A Departure From Previous Tesla Models
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
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Julian and Jordan discuss the thermal management system in the Tesla Cybertruck and compare it to previous Tesla models.
Munro Live is a RUclips channel that features Sandy Munro and other engineers from Munro & Associates. Munro is an engineering consulting firm and a world leader in reverse engineering, costing, and teardown benchmarking.
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#tesla #cybertruck #elonmusk 
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Use code MUNROLIVE50 to get 50% OFF your first Factor box plus 20% off your next box at bit.ly/3vD2Zr8!
More single use packaging and parcel delivery. 😢
Hi Team. Thanks for your entertaining, balanced channel. Here's an idea: could you number the teardown episodes? that way, viewers could make sure that when reviewing at a later date, they don't miss an episode. Amazing stuff. Well done, especially moving to full EV.
Balanced?? 😂😂😂 🐑🐑🐑
@@JetFire9 I thought that was a weird choice of words, also
Ha ha my sugestion to for the same reson!
Well, you have the playlist, but it's in the opposite order... Would be nice if they set the order in all their teardown playlist to be chronological oldest to latest.
There is a FirefoxAddon for playing them in reverse. Think it was „Enhancer for YT“ or something similar.
These two guys are serious professionals… love hearing them refer to the components as monuments
Goodness knows why he called a HVAC compressor a “monument”.
This is why I don't take their word for anything. It's not a sign of professionalism to call major components 'monuments.' It's akin to people calling methane and LOX 'methalox.' It SOUNDS cool and technical, but it's NOT terminology actual professionals use. It's what SALESMEN and rank amateurs use.
These guys can fawn over these pieces of garbage as much as they want, but there's a good reason real companies don't follow suit. It's not that they aren't as technically savvy; quite the opposite is true. It's not because their engineers are worse...again, quite the opposite. It's because both those things are the opposite they see these design decisions as asinine, and stick with good designs that are proven to work.
What? Methane and LOX? That’s a kind of obscure analogy. You must be really smart.
@@ChitFromChinola Nope. But it's a known example.
A known example of what? Of an obscure analogy that 0.5% of readers will understand?
🤗THANKS JORDAN,JULIAN AND ALL THE MUNRO TEAM FOR SHARING THIS WITH US 🥶📐📐📐
Guys, please define your acronyms at least once early in each video.
Thanks for an excellent explanation.
Google!? Otherwise everyone else has to listen to needless explanations every time.
@@steneox2392 Could be done via titles
You two complement each other perfectly. IMHO Very well done.
Good video great presentation. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
One of the things I don't hear you talking about is repairability. For example, does putting the blower motor outboard the dash make it easier to change out in 10 years?
Yes. But you need a hoist to remove the mega beam because it now has a very substantial mass.
You know these are 3-phase PM motors? They have a better lifespan than brush DC motors. Also, the cabin air filter is super easy to exchange.
If you're worried about repairability then you're not the type of customer OEMs want/need
@@Factoryseconds123here's the secret, car companies make money on service as well. Like a lot of money.
yes, usually when you need to change blower, usually whole dash must come apart, this is way better solution
Excellent video. Great duo of engineers. Great product to review.
Thank you very much!
@@MunroLive Too bad tesla are terrible engineers pushing outdated horse and buggy outdated ev technology over newer ice technology. Which has less parts cheaper to produce and easier to fix and more durable. The tesla model y has 27 recalls and model 3 has 25 recalls and no its not just ''software over the air updates'' its actual manufacturing problems lol. Like failing traction batteries and suspension and control arms and steering linkages even bolts that bolt seats in lol. These cars are junk and elon musk is a fraud and so are elderly vehicles/ev are 1830s technology cannot compete with 1860s ice technology it couldnt back then and it still cant now get over yourselves the government needs to also buncha retards.
Jordan and Julian well done, great video, I'm Sure Sandy will be proud of you!
Still early in the teardown but comparing behind the frunck in the Cybertruck versus F150 Lightning, the amount of cooling hoses are quite reduced, very clean on Tesla
lol you rather take a "clean" (something you can't even see under the hood and cover) cooling hose system rather than actual cooling capability? The Cybertruck seems to overheat very quickly
@@Aztasudo you have one or have some owner said that publicly, that it overheats easily?
@@Chamieiniibet "I made it up for dramatic purposes"
My Cyberbeast hasn't overheated yet and I've been beating the crap out of it...
lol, “seems” to.
The best part is no part.
I am enjoying the teardown of this amazing vehicle, I do wish that they would have shown a little bit of the removal of the frunk lid as well as the frunk cover. I hope that in future episodes they don’t skip over too much of the teardown aspects.😮
Most of it is just snap fit for the plastic trunk parts. The hood is most likely 4 bolts and 1 plug for the lights.
Its not amazing,its just ok!
The front areas in Tesla's are ridiculously easy to take apart
It's not an amazing vehicle not even close
@@alanmay7929 “amazing“- causing great surprise, wonderment, astonishing. The cyber truck is, indeed, amazing, as are all the Tesla models! No other auto manufacturer can produce vehicles like this with the technology that is within.
Can you please show more of the actual tear down in addition to the engineering explanation to what we are seeing? See it being broken down would be very interesting. I find it more engaging than just hearing engineers break things down.
Great content and pacing, really like how you're evolving your presentations, all the best
You should number (#) your teardowns of the CT!
this is #2
@@MunroLive
Thanks but put #3 in the next one soo I know I haven't missed any, please!
This is the first CT teirdown I watched, your videos are first class production (good sound, camerawork and pressenters), the other I didn't manage to watch moore then 3 minutes of.
Nice to see a Munro video that doesn't waste time playing lame music at the beginning.
So music in the next video then, you got it!
@@MunroLivenoooo
@@MunroLive hahahaha yes
Never noticed because the first thing I do for almost every youtube video is skip the first 5 or 10 seconds. The right arrow is the most useful key on the keyboard to make youtube less annoying - same for skipping through the baked in ads on many videos. Rich rebuilds is about the only youtuber I've seen who puts ads interesting enough to be worth watching for pure entertainment value in his videos.
@@peglor Yeah Rich got it nicely. Almost sometimes i wonder if he is joking or just takin a piss with add... XD
I’m absolutely fascinated by the design and engineering of the Cybertruck.
Jordan is the best. M&A, don’t let this guy get poached by a competitor!!!
These guys are great! Impressive work by Jordan and Julian.
Great review. Thanks guys!
Thank you guys for showing us this!
The strap could have also been to spread the load or the strength of what it attaches to. Changes in the Giga casting or support could account for strap removal. Great Job guys. RESPECT!!!
Indeed. Seeing how they don't need the strap anymore without major changes to the exchanger, it is very likely that the steel beam was the locally overloaded part. Screwing into cast aluminium vs screwing into sheet metal.
Wondering if the heat exchanger base plate was made thicker?
Good point. I am sure Munro & Assoc. will let us know how Tesla managed it.@@imconsequetau5275
Super presentation great camera work. 😂 Lov'en all the lightweight material.
4:21 Thanks for showing the comparison of the chiller from M3/Y vs . CT. Usually, the Chiller has enough headroom compared to how much the battery needs for example during fast charging, it starts with high cooling power and then starts to drop, to ensure there is a balance between Max Cell temperature, and temperature gradient of the cells (very high chiller power for a longer period, will result in high thermal gradient causing the power/current limits to be pulled down thus system derates). The same chiller operates as heat scavenger tranfwr medium during cold ambient condition, to transfer heat from coolant to Refrigerant, to augment heat pump mode for cabin heating. However the LCC being sized larger in CT makes sense, as that does the bulk of work as it needs to exchange thermal capacity from the Refrigerant side during heating or cooling to/from the coolant side as it manages both cabin (which the CT has a lot more than 3/Y with a lot of greenhouse glass) and battery, potentially even taking some of the eDrive cooling on itself. My guess is the chiller is good till 9kW max, 5 to 2kW average depending on the operation, and LCC is about 15kW max, 9kW average before losses. The cabin may take up 4 to 7kW for Cabin pull down of that LCC thermal capacity. Comes down to CoP rating at those operating temperatures of the fluid and ambient (air talks to the coolant via the radiator, then the coolant interacts with Refrigerant via LCC)
Also, the battery in the CT is nearly twice the size (and mass) of a Model 3/Y battery, and there will be an extension pack, making it even bigger. Even if it would run cooler during charging as said in the video (which is nonsense, the pack input voltage has no effect on cell-level charging), cooling/heating that mass alone needs twice the capacity.
@@HenryLoenwind makes you wonder watts per mile are calculated but not watts per hour while turned off. 😂
@@HenryLoenwind I'm almost certain the extender pack of 40ish to 50 kWh will come with its own inner cooling loop with a small thermal loop, mostly coolant only, no Refrigerant. That way the connection is just a HV from main pack. The extender pack may have its own internal HV-LV dcdc converter to power the auxillairies like pumps, or may come from main vehicle for LV connection, but I highly doubt it would share liquid cooling with main pack/vehicle, the coolant leakage/refill issue alone is not worth it
@@battousaihimura I rather doubt that having its own air intake, air outlet, radiator, fan, coolant pump, reservoir, etc. would be cheaper than connecting two coolant lines when the pack is installed at a service centre. Also, where would the air inlet and outlet even be? We know from the pictures that the pack has no vents towards the inside of the bed, so they would be through that small access hole between the bed and the "penthouse", sucking in air from the area around the rear axle...
@@scottleggejr"watts per hour" would be a measure of the acceleration of power usage. Watt already is "amount per time"...
Love❤ you interesting reviews! Thx
Good update keep it up the good work 👍👍
Thanks 👍
What are those numerous dots about? They’re on the castings and I think various other components. Are you doing some sort of 3D scanning?
yes, for scanning
@@MunroLive thanks!
If you look in the background at 17:33 you can see them 3D scanning parts.
Fascinating ❤
Appreciate the analysis
The 3D scanning dots make it look quite interesting. Wonder how much they will charge for the 3D scan model.
Great video guys, thanks! Hi Sandy!
Hello! 18:25
Glad to notice Jordan using metric first and then the inch conversion. I wonder what units Tesla standardise on? Thanks for another great video, guys!
Great job Julian.
When is a video comming with a teardown of the 2024 Taycan? I cant wait to see how they cool this battery.
right? do an actually good car.
@@laloajuria4678 pshhh
Just mash down the pedal and you’ll get your sunglasses back soon enough.
Older vehicles had the blower outside. Chevy made some that you had to remove the passenger side inner fender to replace it. I saw one old antique car that it was right behind the headlight. I think it was a 53 Buick but im not sure. A guy i worked for had it. It had an inline 8 too.
How many 12 volt elements are left in the Cybertruck?
It's time!!
Thank you!
You're welcome!
All the teams, and individuals, do a remarkable job at presenting. It's a pretty dry sunject at times, but they manage to inject huge interest into the subject matter. And Jordan is doing a great job at smoothly taking over where Cory fronted up the videos.
Thank you.
these two guys are brilliant, good catch for @munrolive
YOURE KILLING HIM!!!
Thanks for sharing your in depth teardown, always very insightful.
Could you show us how the radiator assy is attached to the front casting and also what are the component (radiator, AGS, pump, fan...) ? Thanks in advance
Thanks!
Thank you!
Great job! I had been wondering in particular whether they would preserve the accumulator from the Model S
I think in CT its double if not even more in size. So barely any space left IMO.
Mind blowing the pace of information exchange!
With such a big windshield, does the structure around it need to be stiffer to reduce stress on the glass?
On the Offroadtest by Tesla on the Bacha(?) Peninsula one cracked in a sudden washout. Got hit hard.
the camera angle makes the car look even more humongous
Silverado is kicking butts with it s big battery
Cybertruck interior needed more 70serie Landcruiser inspiration …
What is the big hole in midlle between front seat …
Thank you guys for this great episode. One addition to the heat generation topic while towing. The tabless 4680 battery cells should be helping a lot to not generate a lot of heat while under load. Cheers Guys
Not really, battery cycle efficiency is quite high.
@@boredKiwi
You are actually agreeing with @VAST86.
@@imconsequetau5275 true, didn't notice the 'not'! Although I'll also note OP may have meant temperature rather than heat.
Hi guys, any observations regarding possible set-up for RHD? I notice there seems to be an unused mounting point on the LHS tower casting - could this be for RHD builds?
I guess the black and white spots are for 3D modelling?
I want to see some more of your metrology equipment, light the scanner in the background
What's with the coating on the castings? When these were the big new thing there was much discussion on the simplicity of the process, no heat treat etc... At what stage are they coating and why? With the thousands of castings sitting outside the factory are those corroding and then getting cleaned and coated before assembly? Are the other models coating the castings now?
The giga-casting is coated, but the crossmember bolted to it apparently is not. Different alloy or not as exposed to elements?
@@lancebybee7962 I'd guess the super beam isn't as exposed to the elements. Then the reason we see coatings on the inside of the giga-castings is that masking is more expensive than extra paint.
the CT is the First TESLA thats using e-Coating on the Gigacastings.
since this Vehicle is OFF ROAD & ALL WEATHER , Castings are Multi-layered e-Coated.
Please do an episode on your photogrametry process. I see all the targets in your videos. Do you use a v-stars to map the space then a separate photogrametry camera? Would be a great video. Thanks.
Well other companies are doing xray modelling…
@@chriauc2976 I'd like to see the CAT scanner that fits a light truck. It would be great if we could see the process of measuring and recreating a 3D model.
9:00 Batteries are a lot like humans - Monroe Live 2024
Lol!!!!
I have been advocating moving the cabin HVAC to forward of firewall for years to get stuff out of the cabin. Lots of money to be saved by taking the battery inverter box off battery, including all the inverters in it, and sticking it forward of the firewall as well. that will save a lot of expensive castings attached to motors. The charger port can go behind the drivers side front wheel arch. The size of the frunk would be cut in half, but there would be more options for the load carrying rear of the CT.
The battery architecture can be any voltage you like but individual cells are still 3.5 (approx). Higher voltages reduce system losses and busbar sizes but does that really affect the need for resistive battery heating of not?
Do you actually know the voltage of the cells? I'd be curious to know since LifeP04 cells are generally 3.2 volts and Li-ion is 3.7 nominal.
@@TRauck1506 The 4680 cells are all NMC, which willl be 3.6-3.7.
@davidElliott5843
No, battery voltage is irrelevant. The need for resistive heating depends on the delta-temperature of the refrigerant and the design point for ambient air. If the heat pump cannot cope, then the resistive heating is needed.
Correct, 400/800V is irrelevant, Julian should enlighten himself with the electric engineers. Furthermore, since 2019 (Model 3) Tesla has managed to get rid of a resistive heater. They use one of the motors to create extra heat. Björn Nyland calls it the afterburner 😆.
And then there is towing; Americans tend to focus on tow-weight while air resistance icw speed is the primary factor that dictates the required power output. The weight is a minor factor, only relevant during acceleration and deceleration.
I am very concerned regarding the durability of the 48 volt wire gauge. In the eastern / northern salt belt, existing 12 volt wire durability is an issue. How will smaller wires hold up?
SALT is non issue with ALL Tesla.
@@markplott4820 watch some south main auto. Salt causes many wiring issues.
Salt has the largest ingress through the connectors, not the insulation. I suspect that the connector design, routing, and harness support have the greatest effect on durability, compared to salt/brine presence.
The new 48V Tesla wire harnesses not only have smaller wires, but also power over Ethernet, which greatly simplifies wiring. (Multiple switched loads can share the same pair of wires.)
Is there a front mega casting??
Only the earliest 2020 models had a strap on the heat pump. There was some flaw that they later addressed with the newer supermanifolds.
Cool Video.
What are the dots on the truck for?
The chiller is simply supported by the other components and therefore not adding stress on the bolts and its length.
fewer acronyms plz!
Go Go Gadget Munro. Love these deep dive teardowns.
Can't wait for the next one.
I am surprised that Tesla did not cast the air shock storage directly into their rear frame castings. This would have allowed the tanks to become a structural part of the truck.
Especially as air tanks could be completely irregular in shape.
Sort of how windshield washer tanks could be fit into weird parts of a car body.
Cheers.
I'd like to hear more about how these components work.
Does anyone know if the exoskeleton is taking any/much load?
At the very least, we'll find out further in the teardown
its a Bespoke BEV Unibody chassis .
its using Front & Rear massive Gigacastings.
and its using 4680 cell Structural battery pack.
CT supports up to 2500lb payload (cargo) and over 120 sq ft.
CT can tow Excess of 12,000 lbs.
Unibody is covered in Stainless Steel plates.
I AIN'T NEVA GONNA STOP SKIPPIN THESE COMMERCIALS ~ WM
9:30 fun fact, higher voltage battery packs have higher internal resistance, resulting in similar I^2*R losses for the same capacity and cell type.
looks like the liquid cooling loop is in the way of maintenance on the hvac blower
All of this will be out of date by next year, and thats the Cybertruck we all want.
It is already out of date
What are the white sticker dots in the area around the thermal management system ?
Are the apparently stick-on dots in a 'grid' across everything added so they can precisely register photographs as they progress thru teardown?
Not for simple pictures but for the 3D scanning software. You can see them scanning something in the background at 17:33, btw. Also, "temporary" is relative---they don't waste time on scraping them off again ;).
I was wondering what those are for too.
amazing Cybertruck details given
Is that the exoskeleton😂😂😂😂😂
Curious on a couple things:
- Why was the Cybertruck cabin called out many times as being so large? By volume, wouldn’t MY and MX be quite close (3-row, etc)?
- Why paint those front cyber castings, especially on the ‘interior’ side? Seems a waste of paint/time, no?
I think that the traveling and the capability of the suspension and dumpers on the cyber truck reduce the shock and vibration loads on the LCC,
liquid-cooled condenser.
and I think it could be possible to remove the support on the other models now when they are moving to a more up-to-date dampening technology used in the model 3+ Highland; FSD - Frequency Selective Damping developed by KONI.
Higher grade bolts on the LCC?
I feel like for cleaning the windshield we’re going to need a magnetic cleaner so we can reach it inside
I've had a special windscreen cleaner (a swivelling plate on an extendable stick) for years, as it's hard for me to reach the windscreen in a normal car. So nothing new there...
Clean design
Yeah. Very few tubes and electrical connections. Very neat packaging from this viewpoint.
Model 3 introduced actively heating using the motors (not just passively), i.e., running the motors intentionally inefficiently in order to increase heat production as needed and to the factor needed moment to moment. I think they then spread that capability to all their other cars: Model Y, Model S, and Model X. Correct me if I'm wrong. Does the CyberTruck buck that trend? I'd be very surprised if it does. The additional heating capacity needed by a high efficiency 800 volt architecture could just use the big motors of the CyberTruck. (Obviously only needed when it's too cold, but that's a lot of places a lot of the time.)
What are the black and white dots for?
If I worked at Munro, I'd be the dot-matrix sticker dude.
While you were in there, did you see the Phoenix radar? No one has stated if it was in the cybertruck yet
Just look how clean it is, how few wires and pipe runs. Do a side by side comparison to a naked F150 lightning or Rivian R1T.
I'm surprised as well because I thought the design might have rushed. So far I'm impressed.
What are the odds that the larger components find their way into the other models? Would the increased cost and weight offset the advantage of part commonalities? I am assuming they would generally have a performance benefit (eg better cooling) in the smaller models, but would there be performance downsides instead?
The heat exhanger only exhange heat, if the smaller one is good enough, on the smaller models, compared to all the other components in the system, then there would be no benefit to cooling or heating performance by replacing the heat exhanger for a larger model.
also they can be made at pretty much the same machine i think.. the only difference between them should be how many layers/plates are stacked there, with each layer being identical. also the base plate and top plate are pretty much identical based on what can be seen..
Are there any mild steel on the Cybertruck? The stainless steel anticorosive abilities makes me want it but I dont want it to rust out underneath like a Delorean :). Ive had my Aluminum Model S since 2016 now and it turns out to be very corosion resistant on our salty roads in Norway apart from the fron upper control arm which is easy to replace once in a while, And some brakelines rust a bit.
That slapped on label on the prominent monument looks like GM 1980’s….
I wonder if the LCC's individual laminates are the same as with previous LCC's laminates they look the same from what I can see.
Here is a cheat as you teardown continue the teardown. The blue plugs/markers indicate the 48 volts lines.
What is the purpose of putting so many dots on the vehicle? Is it for scanning? Thanks
What are the white dots that are on most of the parts for?
Handheld 3D scanners use them, probably to minimize drift as you move them around
Please tear down the climate control system, inc. HVAC unit. Im very interested to see if the size of the evaporator, condesnsor has also increased along with the upsized LCC and compressor. Also, are they using any PTC elements.
Great teardown series!
I need to know which is the model of his Under Armour shirt !
It make you wonder if the CyberTruck Liquid Cooled were put on the Model S Plaid if drag strip racing performance would be improved.
Interesting Package ! Front Plate Condenser Side Mounted from 1 end Leads to Early O- ring Failure and even end line Rub Wear ! Blower Motor Ease of Replacement is a Must Many o-Manufacture Problems Persist even under Warranty ! Cross Members Heavily Slung are Sometimes Prone to Multiple Problems Cracking, Popping Sounds When Coming Loose Heat Pump Close to Fire Wall Traditionally Very Noisy Leading to Body Boom ! Still one Tight Assembly Sacrifices in Engineering Play to Function, Form and Space !
MEGA SUPER ULTRA
What are all the white dots all over the vehicle for? Some sort of scanning, for 3D purposes?
Yeah, they are for those Chinese guys that are scanning the parts in the background.