A Dream of a Dream | Shōgun Ep 10 Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 25 апр 2024
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Masterpiece of a show
guys you nee to react to viral hit
Y’all should try reacting to Pantheon. Incredible show.
@@souhailaitaammihadi80yes please react to viral hit
Omi snitched on Yabushige episode 1. Toranaga used the same line "why tell a dead man the future" so he would know he was always watching and using him as a pawn before his end. That's why Yabushige looked back and smiled at him.
@@samuelmutia9608 fr, great piece of fiction.
Btw, if yall confused, I think the official Shogun podcast confirmed Blackthorne never left Japan and the Old Man visions you see are more of a dream than anything.
Yup. That's why the title of the episode is "A Dream of a Dream", for a few reasons. One of them being Blackthorne dreaming of returning to England, returning back to his life, raising his family, and growing old there, which never happens.
One thing that i dont quite understand with these dream things and if someone would care to explain, i would be grateful. So if he is dreaming of returning to england...why is there toranaga's helmet in his room. And why is there a sword which is chipped. If he was dreaming of returning back to england, I dont think he would want to take back anything related to Japan.
@@princen8213 The idea is that he would've taken some treasures from Japan in his dream.
The RL guy he's based on never left Japan. Also, Fuji never became a nun and married Blackthorne and they had kids. This is based on the real life man and also confirmed by the author in a different book in his East Asia series, where a blue-eyed Japanese person in the late Edo period claims descent from an Englishman who lived in Japan
Fact in dream he had Mariko's cross which he clearly dropped into the water is as obvious as it could get
Anjin: I've been using YOUUU.
Toranaga:NO YOU
Toranaga: *Uno reverse card*
I just realised, this whole story is basically showing how Japan entered the Edo period, two centuries of peace under the Tokugawa shogunate
I mean yea, it’s just a fictionalized version of the real events, Toranaga Yoshii for example is meant to be Tokugawa Ieyasu and Ishido is meant to be Ishida Mitsunari
@@Dell-ol6hb yeah figured, different names threw me off till i heard toranaga said edo
@@Dell-ol6hb damnm
2.5 centuries. Lasted all the way up until the Americans arrived.
@@zimvader25 knock knock. It's America. With boats. And GUNS.....GUNBOATS!
They said "Open your country. Stop having it be closed."
Toranaga gotta be one of the biggest, coldest tricksters in history. He's playing 4d chess while everyone playing checkers.. having Mariko as his queen sacrifice for the final gambit. All for his true plan to become shogun. What a wild series.. very well executed in the show from the book
He makes Palpatine look like a goof
@@deanthemachine7489 Palpatine's biggest scheme was hiring a guy, who hired an alien, who sent a robot, which sent poison maggots to kill a queen lol
@@acidrain92 and he somehow returned
nah, the plot is there to help him ngl, ochiba switching sides doesnt make sense because she was fixated on killing him to suddenly change her plan like that is not realistic, would have been much better if ochiba bluffed and tricked him sending the message that theheir army will not interfere, ony to toranaga lower his guard and ultimately lose when the battle comes
@@youssefalaa4876 I'm almost at the end of the book. I'll let you know how the book describes it after I've finished it👍🏻
Roshi got it right, the dream of a dream is the imaginary future of Blackthorn if he had left Japan. As you might know by now, most of the characters are based on real people, Blackthorn is William Adams the Mirua Anjin. Adams was the first englishman to arrive in Japan in a botched trade mission sponsored by the dutch. The events of the series happens, more or less, with some artistic freedom, Adams trains the Japanese in canon tactics and promises to build western type ships for Tokugawa. When the Tokugawa shogunate was established, by that time, he was allowed to leave Japan, but he never did. He remained an advisor of the Shogun for the rest of his life, he was responsible for foreign trade with the Dutch and the English, and did some exploration/trade missions in Asia. He died at 55 near Nagasaki.
Mhm
He had ships and worked across Asia with his ships, but he never went back home to the UK
He did eventually start regularly sending money back to his wife and kids in England
@@porksterbob He sent money back home, but he never went back home and he got married again to a Japanese woman and had kids
@@overthewebb gues the Japanese woman he got married with would be fuji then. given the boat scene
Blackthorne never returned to his home country, the flashforward was just an illusion
Some might say it was a dream lmao 😂
is this a spoiler?
@@jo1italianstyle Blackthorne is meant to be William Adams. Adams was given permission to leave Japan later but he decided to stay. He died in Japan in 1620, 20 years after the events of Shogun
Just realized Mariko planned to commit seppuku at sunset which is also when the sky turns crimson. Her and Toranaga are real ass poets
Crimson Sky for real
The scene with Fuji and Anjin spreading the ashes is so special in so many ways, but most notably
"Let your hands be the last to hold her" is a play on what Mariko told Fuji in episode 1 bringing everything full circle.
And also the scene was shot in the exact bay where the author of Shogun had his ashes spread and his daughter was on set to see on the day of filming. Really powerful that the book got to be honored in this way through the show
This show has been one of the few shows where there were no weak characters. It better win hella Emmys.
Woke Hollyweird won't let it win, not enough diversity in the cast and too old school culture for them and the story is about Japan.
@@Mwoods2272 bot
@@Mwoods2272 nice bait eunuch
@@penckok1832 Nah he got a point. These emmys always have people pulling strings behind the scene. You don't really believe all of them really earn it by their own do you? (Some celebrity do not all though)
@@penckok1832 Nope his right, I already saw White and Black people complaining on TIKTOK that is another white saviour show and racist because they didn't have black characters in the Show. Fortunately there are Black and White people defending the show because this is a historical period piece series. As he said though, it won't win Emmys because of the people complaining about Diversity.
22:34
"Why tell a dead man the future?"
It's the same thing Yabushige told his nephew about Toranaga when everyone thought Toranaga was going to die.
So was Omi a spy?
@@billytessio6326from the beginning
@@billytessio6326 Basically
@@billytessio6326 Maybe Omi told Kiku who then told Toronaga.
@@billytessio6326 - maybe not a full up "spy" but certainly feeding info to Toranaga about his uncle's doing - motivated by a whispered "if only YOU were lord"... which is the head corteasan and who met with Totanage in "stick of time" but the head of the house of tea to ensure their reward in all of this - layers upon layers going on here - magic right?
The man Blackthorne is based on (William Adams) never left Japan, the 'dream' first appears when he is unconscious, after the explosion, its a dream or its Blackthorne's dream/wish of how he wants his life to end, back in England surrounded by family, but when he is about to commit seppuku it flashes to the 'dream' again like he's giving up on that ending because he's going to kill himself in Japan. Great, great show, give it all the awards especially Mariko's actor Anna Sawai!
the ultimate one way trip 😄
In Ep 9, Mariko and Ochiba were using poetry to speak in secret. This is why, when Mariko said " Flowers are only flowers because they fall", that was the code phrase for Ochiba to send to Toranaga pledging to keep the Heir's army off the field. Why use poetry? Toranaga gave the reason when he asked "have you read it?" Clearly he knew ANY correspondence between him and Ochiba would be read. And it was since Toranaga apparently noticed the poem had been read. Mariko's death gave Ochiba the reason to write to Toranaga, on behalf of the Heir, exclaiming grief over the death of Toranaga's vassal Mariko. In reality, the poem was confirmation that the Heir supported Toranaga's claim as Shōgun, and anybody reading the message wouldn't be the wiser. This show is incredible. The book, so far, is just as amazing!
"What kind of man can wield power in a place like this?"
Yoshii Toranaga, in my opinion, was technically the villain all along. Not in a narrative sense, but his schemes and conniving has just about earned him the right of Shogun.
Like Yabushige said, he's no better than the rest of them. In Toranaga's secret heart, I believe he always wanted to be Shogun.
"No one knows what goes on in the heart of a Minowara"
Well he is no better than Ishida just more subtle and lucky.
Also in one of the early episode they say how every person has 3 different hearts, one of which is for nobody else to see, not even those closest to you
of course, did anybody actually believe him saying that "he doesn't seek to become Shogun"? Tokugawa Ieyasu was a very cunning, intelligent and ambitious man
Ochiba father's death are the beginning of toranaga scheme, he's the one that make akechi jinsai killed the lord and became the traitor 😂
That's why they shared that little look at the end.
The flash forward wasnt real, it was blackthorns "Dream of a dream", William Adams the guy who Blackthorn is based on spent the rest of his life in Japan.
"Why tell a dead man the future," is Toronaga telling/boasting to Yabushige that he will be Shogun in the future. It was Toronaga acknowledging that it is what his plan/goal is without revealing his secret heart. Perhaps that was what the shared smile was about.
it was also the words Yabushige said when referring to not telling Toronaga about the ship. It Toronaga telling Yabushige that I knew all this time about your plotting and betrayals and used it to my aid my plans. He knew how he would act based on certain things happening. Assuming Yabushige realized this and had the realization he was ultimately useful to the plan that and Toronaga dropping his walls with that smile to give him his answer for a split moment.
Also Yabu said that to his nephew first episode, and he realises his nephew was always on Torunaga's side, hence the smile. And smile back to acknowledge.
@@chewiewins Plus Omi kinda roused Toranagas son into killing Ishida messenger to completely screw Yabushige and to try kill his uncle that ultimately led to some more time for Toranaga and he got his uncle fief in the end.
日本から:
そうです。トラナガの言葉は”イエス、お前の思っている通りだ”という説明であることが日本人ならたやすく理解できます。
Wrong. Its cementing toranaga character as being so secretive that he doesnt reveal his most deepest desire (8 fences and shit) even to someone about to die
Anji and Fuji scene "burying" their pain together torn me to pieces holy crap man
She couldn’t decide whether to bury the remains in the family temple or bring with her.
So Blackthorne said “sea burial”, and now if she misses her family, all she has to do is look out at the sea and they’re there
8:22 One of the most accurate "manly cry" scenes I've ever seen in my life, at least in resemblance to myself. The unleashing of grief while trying not to completely break down. Happened to me at the death of my first pet (that was wholly mine as an adult), my brother, my mom, and my grandfather (in that order). Great acting moment that some might think looks stupid if they don't grieve in the same way.
This was a perfect show imo. My favorite part of it was the cast, there really felt like no weak characters from a writing or acting perspective. Specifically Yabushige and Fuji ended up being my favorites. I think Fuji in particular deserves more attention for her amazing character progression leading to a satisfying conclusion for her story, and the actress was among the strongest to me.
Toranaga did not tell him because he was right. His secret heart was to be shogun, now rewatch the series coming from the idea that he wasnt some benevolent lord trying to keep peace, but ishido and the regents were right in the first episode he is working to become shogun. even think about what happened before the show starts, ochiba being held in edo, its almost as if he knew what to do to kick off all this.
the minute Anjin says fuck it while looking at the cross he gives up his dream of growing old and returning home. He's ready to die. He never leaves Japan. The priest in the prison told him as much, if Toranaga likes you, you're never leaving. Awesome reactions, Sheera was on point as always and Roshi calling out the plan as it's revealed. Great job guys.
Roshi is one of the few on RUclips who actually know how to make a reaction video
My best reactors by far
Balanced with the jokes(lupa) the brains (sheera) and both (roshi)
I'd literally sub twice if it were possible
Dude, I saw you comment the same thing on another video. You’re fishing for likes.
@@Graylord12 "balanced"
@@paulreyes6221bud, welcome to RUclips.
@@Graylord12 I genuinely couldn’t have stated this any better
At this time, Osaka and Kyoto were the capitals, and Edo was still a rural area, but after the Shogun's model unified the country, it developed and later became Tokyo.
sad to see it go, but so glad it came 10/10
Masterpiece of a show. They nailed everything from character development, cinematography, to the storytelling.
To the set pieces, the costumes, the action/choreography, music
co-creator quote of the ending-
Blackthorne, through this entire story, has been a prisoner of his own ambition, which one might call the disease of colonialism, or even capitalism almost, too. But this idea of a man who is so bound by his ambition and his own sense of where he belongs in this world, and what is owed to him that he is the worst prisoner of all. So is Yabushige. They’re both like this…
But for Blackthorne, it revolves crucially around this idea of what we call the false dream. We wanted to open this episode with what feels like the beginning of a flashback structure where we jump forward into the future and we meet Blackthorne as an old man and we tell the story of an old man looking back with regret on the life that he led.
Only to realize that that was not the dream of an old man looking back, it was actually the dream of a young man looking forward to one possible version of his life. A version of his life that he has to draw to an end by killing that path. What Blackthorne is trying to kill there is not himself, it’s the version of himself that he’s always been.
And when Toranaga knocks that knife out of his hand and then looks down at him, he’s looking at a man reborn now to a completely different life.
Those words "why tell a dead man the future" came back to Yabushige when he told that to Omi. Making Omi one of Toranaga's spies.
This is what television should be twist turns unexpected happenings and sorrow & joy all in one it's only a few who can do this and Shogun mastered it beautifully 💯🔥🐲
I'm glad I'm not the only emotionally distraught one during the scene when Blackthorne offered to commit seppuku to save the village. It really showed how much impact Mariko's death had on him.
When Toranaga says “why tell dead men the future”. It makes me think Toranaga used omi the nephew of yabushige as his soy as well.
One thing about the conversation between Toranaga and Yabushige before the seppuku that is going over a lot of heads is when Toranaga tells Yabushige, "Why tell a dead man the future"?
This was the words Yabushige used when speaking to Omi in the first episode when referring to Toranaga, and was a sneaky way of saying he was onto Yabushige from the jump.
fun fact, the author of the novel, James Clavell's ashes were scattered on the exact same location as Fuji's son and husband
The grandpa scene is a what if moment. He saw a future where he could return to England, dying old with regrets. Instead he chose to stay at Japan for the rest of his life. Also Blackthorne is loosely based on a real english man who built european ships for the Japanese.
"Why tell a dead man his future?" is what Yabushige said in private to his nephew about Blackthorne in episode 1, revealing that his nephew was also a spy all along.
broooooooooooooooooooooooooooo , how tf
In the book Toronaga considered him a friend and never let him leave Japan. Later he agreed to let him go buy Blackthorn stayed anyway. There is a statue for the real Blackthorn in Japan.
when Toronaga said to Yabushige ¨why tell a dead men the future?¨ is refering when Yabushige said to Anijn on episode 1
Releasing the falcon was, I think, a reflection of him releasing Mariko, letting her finally die.
Fun Historical Context: Toranaga is based on Tokugawa Ieyasu. The Battle of Sekigahara was in 1600. After he won, he gained supremacy in Japan, and in 1603 the Emperor gave him the title of Shogun.
He died in 1616.
And John? He's based on William Adams. He lived the rest of his life in Japan, spending 20 years there. He created Western Ships for the Shogun, facilitated Japan's approval for trading factors with Netherlands and England, and then captained 4 Expeditions to Southeast Asia. He died at 55 in 1620.
Old Blackthorn scene is a fever dream of a future he dreamt of, one where he eventually leaves Japan and has a family and grows old. A dream where his history in Japan are just stories passed along to his grandchildren and the rosary necklace is a representation of his past.
But in reality Blackthorn throwing away the necklace represented him throwing away his dream of ever leaving Japan. Toranaga burned down the ship for multiple reasons. Blackthorns with his ship reprsents a threat to the Catholics. Meaning his life is always in danger. Toranaga actually thinks of Blackthorn as one of his favorite chess pieces, so he has gone out of his way to keep him by his side. Blackthorns value actually resides in his master boat engineering that they gloss over. His ships and ship building is way more advanced than anything in Japan. Its like a modern day Jet vs ww1 planes.
Toranaga was also stating that he likes Blackthorn so much that if Blackthorn ever builds himself a personal ship to leave Japan ever after accomplishing his missions for him. That Toranaga may just burn down his new ship to keep him in Japan longer (permanently).
Not me crying the whole episode😢!!! Love y’all reaction!
I was Sheera this episode, at the brim of my emotions. Channel reactions like yours are allowing me to prolong the Shogun experience.
The old man vision is a dream, William Adams who Blackthorne was based off of in real history never left Japan
I don't consider myself a superstitious man.But if an earthquake starts just when I make an important decision I think it's important to at least reconsider it
Blackthorne never left Japan, his character based on Williams Adams and he never left Japan historically, the dreams is more like vision he had if he never let go of Mariko death which he finally did when he throw the cross in the sea.
And for what Toranaga said about burning the ship again is not actually he will burn the ship that Blackthorne rebuilt but it was a parable if he ever want to leave Japan again Toranaga would do something to stop it because Tornaga wants him to stay in Japan, in real life Williams did build a western style ship for Tokugawa (Toranaga)
RIP to my dawg Yabushige. Also Toranaga didn't tell Yabs the truth because of that "every man has 3 hearts" thing Mariko told Blackthorne: "The one in his mouth for the world to see. The one in his chest for his friends and family. His true one, hidden from all but himself and God." He told Yabushige a lot of the truth because on some level they were friends, but about whether he has been planning to be Shogun which he denied to the world, he refused to tell Yabs
*The old Blackthorne in bed was just a vision he had. He stays in Japan forever.*
Toranaga asked this man to turn in his life like a work badge 😂
It was a Barry type dream, thats why he thought about it before trying to commit seppaku and then gave up on his future when he said fuck it.
Blackthorn: I demand something, mostly going home.
Toranaga: No.... You are promoted BTW.
Vision of dying comfortably in his bed in his home country, in his house, of old age, surrounded by wealth and adoring grandchildren.
"Fuck it. We live and we die."
Him letting Mariko's cross go was the destruction of that flashforward.
One of the best tv shows in recent years
The fact this ended without a major battle is a ballsy ass move, ngl.
While I hope they don't come back with a season 2 (The book is finished), I hope this opens the door to adapt the other novels.
It's not coming back for a s2. They already said that
@@Mishiman69 They said that s2 is unlikely cause the source material is finished but 2 days ago mentioned it's not entirely out of the question but I don't like the feeling of having no roadmap.
If they ever made a sequel series, it could cover the rest of the real life events. The battle of Sekigahara, was one of the biggest battles, in Japanese history.
@@chrisgooden4684 Wait, I am not familiar with the history/source material. It's finished?!? It ended off like that battle would be in season 2 and we'd see Toranaga fight/strategize to eventually become Shogun. Damn.
A 10/10 finale for a 10/10 series. Absolutely goated
The show was excellent. One of the greatest shows I've ever seen. My favorite characters were
1. Mariko
2. Yabushige
3. Fiji
You mean fuji?
Very sad too see a masterpiece end, unsure they'll do a season 2 as they ended via the books itself. Really gonna miss this show, props to all the actors!
Holy, out of all the reactions, Sheera first to quickly realize the Old Man Blackthorne confusion. This channel is really something else
The "dream of a dream" is less a flash forward and more a flash sideways; a possible future glimpsed at in moments of peril. But notice that said dream featured Mariko's cross, the very same that he lowered into the water by the end of the episode. The dream is but a dream. John is to stay in Japan and serve Toranaga.
John's vision is the Dream of a Dream. He dreams of going back to England to be with his wife and children, but would be haunted by Mariko for the rest of his life. Just like Fuji's dream of being a highborn and raising her son, she let that dream go with the ashes, just as John lets his dream go by releasing Mariko's Rosary.
Blackthorne never leaves Japan. He quite literally turns away from that future when he decides to commit suicide to save the village. He also throws the cross into the ocean. On top of that Toronaga straight says that he will never leave because he likes him. His flash fowards only happen when he is either passed out or dreaming. The last time you see it is when he gives up on that "dream". Also the he doesnt leave in the book nor did the person the book is based on. He stayed in Japan and got married to a Japanese woman.
"A dream of a Dream" the tittle of this show. I think it implies here that Blackthorn visions of himself as an old man are just that, visions.
The only time you see him as the old man is when he's still concussed by the bomb.
Then you see the kids asking him if he received this from savages. Refering to how he used to see them.
But then those words are followed by visions of Mariko. The bond and love they've shared.
I think that gradually blackthorn is at peace with his new place in the Japan culture. He found purpose, respect and order.
When he throws Mariko's cross in the water, it pretty much seals the idea that the old man is just a vision.
The quality of visual storytelling in this show is absolutely poetic. I have never seen this level of masterfull storytelling in all of my life. Every characters are so well defined, their arc and growth.
"Let your hands be the last to hold her" Had me in absolute tears. This closure to this story was absolutely heart breaking.
I love this show so much
14:47 ngl I'll catch myself bowing back too lmao
The boat part is more clear on the dub. He said that when Blackthorn is done building his ship, he'll burn it and have him build another, and again and again. Then ge says that Blackthorn's fate is to never leave Japan. All because he finds Blackthorn amusing.
Thats fucked up
@@29wanya I think in the book it was because he considered him someone closest to a friend as he is outside the typical Japanese political/culture and thus isn't really someone he has to be on guard with all the time. Also I believe he considered him to be similar in mindset, hence why he retained knowledge of the "Unless I Win" quote as it aligns with Toranaga's mentality as well. I don't know what the real reason was historically but when the real life version of Toranaga becomes shogun he allows him to leave, but chooses not too and serves as an advisor to the shogunate. Never leaving Japan.
按針に対する〝面白い〟という言い方は
表面的に面白いという意味と
こいつは〝見込みがある〟という期待する意味もあり
その結果、〝将来性がある〟という意味に繋がっています
私たち日本人は何気なく〝面白い〟と就職希望者に面接官が使う事がありますが
〝金の卵〟的にも使う言葉なので重層的単語です
@@user-fd8hr8gi4j Goshinsetsu gozaimashta.
It's not pointless to let Yabu know if he dies anyway. I really liked the moment whenn Toranaga said ''Why tell a dead man the future'' it was a reference to what Yabushige said about Toranaga to Omi in the early episodes, which could only mean Omi was working for Taoranaga from the start. Amazing short reference.
The future sequences were just a possible future. They show him with Mariko's cross in that future, but we get confirmation it was just a dream when he tosses it into the water with Fuji.
show is soo good. when toranaga is on the cliff talking about a great nation and era of no war only peace made me think of metal gear solid speeches lol
Yabushige constantly AOTing his will like [my finaler will] [my finalest will] [my true final will part3] and he finally made final will
Yeah the flash forward was just a dream. Blackthorne never leaves
The old man sequence was a dream forward of what he expected his life to be, but it would never happen.
Im pretty sure him in England was a dream he had while he was unconscious
It was, in real life Blackthorne(adams) lives the rest of his life in Japan. He gets married to a Japanese women, and has multiple kids. Some theorize that the women Fuji is based on, was the one he married.
Toranaga is a master manipulator who used everyone around him to achieve his goal. He deceived everyone into thinking he's righteous when in fact he is no different from everyone else.
"A Dream of a Dream" - Blackthorn going back, growing old and dying in England is a Dream which he had to let go. He never left the Japans.
The model for Anjin, William Adams, spent his whole life in Japan and served Tokugawa Ieyasu.
In the dream scene, Anjin, unable to understand Mariko's final actions and death,seems to be in a different future.
I saw this series in japan.
Japan is freer than back then, but I felt I am using freedom too easy and forgetting how to live with duty and responsibilities. I learned something important from SHOGUN.
Historically blackthorn never left Japan and his bones are still their today
When Anjin was about to commit seppuku, there was a scene where he imagined himself as an old man on his deathbed. However, by dying through seppuku, that future would disappear. At that moment, he decided to change his ‘fate’ with his own hands. So the image of the old and dying self at the beginning was actually Anjin’s ‘dream’.
Since we discussed Blue Eye Samurai here as well, 'Toranaga' (based on the historical Tokugawa) defeated 'Ishido' at the Battle of Sekigahara in 1600, thus ushering in the shogunate that would rule Japan relatively peacefully for 250 years. I imagine that Toranaga would be very annoyed that his capital city of Edo would be set ablaze by an angry swordswoman (Mizu) in 1657.
Other fun dates:
Manji from Blade of the Immortal became Rin's bodyguard in 1782, somewhat near the end of Tokugawa shogunate but with plenty of life left in it.
Shortly after the fall of the shogunate came the Satsuma Rebellion in 1877 where the last remnants of the samurai class made a last ditch effort to hold on to power, forming the basis for the movie The Last Samurai, where another westerner comes to meddle in Japan's affairs again. :D
And then many years later during the Taisho period starting 1912, the Demon Slayer Corps were apparently fighting a secret war against demons.
Loved this show, it really felt like a special show, I dont think we have another show like this, that is authentically japanese while made for a western audience. Was fun watching your reactions after having finished the show aswell!
They did a good job portraying the numbness of grief.
Also the scene with Fuji, Blackthorne and then the empty spot next to them as they look out at the garden.
Old Man Blackthorne was just a dream of what could be that John had while he was concussed and unconscious from the explosion. The bit where he thinks about it and says, "Fuck it," before trying to kill himself is him rejecting the idea. In the dream (A Dream of a Dream,) he is holding Mariko's crucifix...which isn't possible since he threw it into the lake when he was with Fuji. Neither John Blackthorne or his real life counterpart, William Adams, will ever leave Japan. Adams lived another 20 years, remained an important Tokugawa retainer and was considered fully samurai. He married a Japanese woman and had several children. In the book we get all of the explanation directly from Toranaga's thoughts, so there is no mistaking what his intent is. He doesn't give two shits about John's ship, nor any fleet he might make. He gets John focused on ship building to keep him busy and help him get over Mariko. He literally does plan to burn any and every ship that John builds because...according to Toranaga's own thoughts...he needs at least one friend in the world, and as an outsider, John is the perfect person to perform that role. Having established trust between them, Toranaga will never let him leave. He thinks that one day he'll be able to tell John the truth, and by then John will have become so culturally Japanese that he will be fine with it. There is a bunch of context that the show doesn't give us, but the book does:
1. Toranaga always knew what Kasigi Yabu was up to, right from the start. He maneuvered Yabu into doing everything he did, and always knew everything about his moves...because they weren't really Yabu's, they were Toranaga's. Yabu was an important pawn in the overall plan, and never knew it.
2. The "Yabu and Yoshi on a cliff" scene doesn't happen in the book, we get all the exposition internally from Toranaga himself. That being said, in the scene, Yabu realizes that Toranaga has been plotting the entire time, and wants to know if...contrary to what he always claimed...he actually wants to be Shogun and has been scheming to make it happen. Toranga's answer comes in two parts. First, he repeats to Yabu something that Yabu said to Omi in the first episode, "Why tell a dead man the future?" The point of that is to let Yabu know he's been on to him the entire time. In other words, "Yes, I've been plotting the whole time." Then Yabu stabs himself, and then looks up at Toranaga to see if he will give him a definite answer to the Shogun question. Toranaga gives him a smirk, confirming that he wants to be Shogun before beheading him.
3. Additionally, Toranga's internal monologue lets us know that the plan has been in motion for nearly twenty years, and the first actual physical move involved manipulating Mariko's father into killing Goroda. In real life, Tokugawa Ieysu manipulated Akechi into assassinating Oda Nobunaga when he was lightly guarded at a temple in Kyoto. He then used the services of Hattori Hanzo, the leader of the original ninja clan, to get him and his retinue as far away from Kyoto as possible, returning to Edo through secret mountain passes that only the Hattori clan knew. This allowed Toranaga/Tokugawa to claim that he and his people had been nowhere near the scene of the murder.
4. Fun fact, the black samurai Yasuke may have been the last person to see Oda alive before Oda was captured and forced to commit seppuku by the Akechis. Yasuke was an African slave owned by a Portuguese priest, and when Oda encountered him he was fascinated, buying him from the priest, then freeing him. Yasuke became a respected samurai and one of Oda's kosho, which means page, but really indicates an important functionary within the leader's inner circle. For example, Ishido (Ishida in real life,) was one one of the Taiko's kosho. Before we celebrate all that though, I think its important to note that Oda was a fucking monster that ruled Japan through outright fear (in one of the Akechi flashbacks we see Oda in the background, just casually beheading people for no apparent reason.) If Oda liked you and wanted to hang out, that probably means that you were a total piece of shit yourself. I doubt any of us would enjoy meeting Yasuke in real life, he was probably gangster as fuck.
5. Toranaga's discussion with Mariko about her knowing her father's purpose and wanting her to continue his fight was a straight up lie. Akechi wanted his favorite child spared death, and so arranged a marriage for her into Toranaga's clan, where she would be protected. Toranaga was fine with this out of guilt at how he was using the Akechis, and he also figured she might become useful one day. Everything Toranaga told Mariko was just meant to manipulate her into doing what she did...further, he was banking on the fact that she would die, it was part of the plan.
6. Saeki (Toranaga's shifty half brother,) was on Toranaga's side the whole time. His, "I have a warrant for your arrest and we're going to Osaka," bit was part of the deception. At the battle of Sekgihara, Saeki switches sides. Secretly, Toranaga is maneuvering him into a position where the Council of Regents will demand he commits seppuku...after using his army to help win the battle. This eliminates potential competition, lets Toranaga take all his land and wealth, and opens a spot on the Council for Toranaga's hand picked candidate...Kasigi Omi.
7. Speaking of Omi, Toranaga has been grooming him for high rank and elevation to the position of Regent the entire time, and has used him to control and manipulate Yabu. He sees himself in Omi and respects him a great deal...to the point where he acknowledges that he will likely have to kill him in the future before he becomes too powerful
8. Mariko made the deal to save the Anjin, but it was Toranaga who commanded her to do that prior to her leaving for Osaka.
9. Omi uncovered a plot by Yabu to use the gun regiment to turn on Toranaga if necessary. All of the officers were in on it, and so Toranaga used the burning of the ship (which he himself had arranged,) as a pretext to accuse them all of treason and have them executed. The heads in the village weren't peasants, they were the heads of some of the executed officers. I say, "some" because there were 54 officers. One of them came clean to Omi out of guilt, and Toranaga spared him. The other 53 were executed and their heads placed on spikes lining the beach.
10. Buntaro knew that Mariko and John were having an affair, and demanded the right to kill John (this is after the death of Mariko.) Toranaga refuses and reveals the bombshell that Mariko couldn't have cheated on Buntaro since they were no longer married and she was free to enjoy sex with whomever she wished. Toranaga had ordered Buntaro and Mariko divorced, but Mariko had requested that Toranaga not reveal this information until after her death, so as to spare Buntaro any shame. Buntaro then realizes that Toranaga sent Mariko to Osaka to die.
11. Fuji doesn't become a nun, but insists that Toranaga keep his end of the deal and give her permission to take her life. He argues against it but Fuji is Fuji and he finally gives her his permission. Part of his argument is that she is clearly pregnant with John's child...something which she denies. Feudal Japan was freaky, and Fuji was John's consort. John was hitting that, but it was more of a, "its good for your health," thing rather than an intimate affair. Mariko knew and had no problem with it, even encouraging it.
12. Toranaga plans to give John all the territory that Omi controlled, but Fuji doesn't take any shit and negotiates for a fief three times larger. Omi has divorced his wife (whom we never see in the show,) and Fuji wants her given to John as a wife. Toranaga thinks the courtesan Kiku would be a better choice, but Fuji will not hear of it. Toranaga agrees, but as soon as she departs he reverses the decision and gives Kiku to John because Toranaga lies about literally everything. Kiku is overjoyed because now she will become samurai and her children with John will be born into the samurai class despite being mixed race. Toranaga laments having to grant Fuji's request to die, thinking it a terrible waste.
13. The heir is probably Toranaga's son. Yoshi and Ochiba were involved prior to her father's death (Goroda was her father,) and it was thought she was going to be Toranaga's next wife. Then she became consort to the Taiko and somehow conceived with a man who was clearly infertile. Toranaga was around a lot at the time, and they likely continued their relationship behind the Taiko's back. Her inner monologue while everyone waits for the Taiko to die reveals that she is furious with Toranaga in a spurned lover sort of way. She clearly thinks Toranaga should claim her as his wife, adopt the Taiko's "son," and rule as sole regent. Realizing that's not going to happen and that Toranaga was likely using her, she starts on the path of revenge.
14. The trip to Osaka doesn't happen on a boat, it happens on the road, lasting about a month. It starts the next day after the Buntaro/Mariko tea ceremony, and ends when they arrive in Osaka. John and Mariko can't keep their hands off each other, and are banging it out every chance they get. This is the actual reason Mariko rejects Buntaro's offer to die. She's no longer his wife, and is about to embark on a torrid love affair with John. She has zero time for Buntaro's bullshit. John and Mariko think they're slick, keeping their relationship a secret, but literally everyone on the trip with them knows and just doesn't say anything out of politeness.
15. Shogun is like watching the Star Wars prequels from the point of view of Palpatine and all his friends. You just spent 10+ hours rooting for the bad guys and had no idea you were doing it.
Toranaga has to be one of the best masterful Shogi players I've seen. The man was four and half steps ahead of friend and foe alike. This show is a masterpiece, from the acting, dialogue, cinematography, and soundtrack. The scenes with Blackthorne and Fuji were very sweet and heartwarming.
you guys missed the part where toranaga said " Why tell a dead man the Future" its the same thing Yabushige said at the beginning when they were talking about infroming toranaga or not about the ship and the things they got from it.
It was a vision that would have been but when he decided to commit seppuku he is shown to turn away from the vision, it was the same rosary that's why that vision was something he let go.
the title of the episode literally tells it all lmao, blackthorne never went back home as you can see he threw the rosary off the boat so he never went back to England it's just a dream BROTHER
this show was hella good. i love ur reactions
I literally went this entire show without realizing Toranaga is actually Tokugawa Ieyasu until he mentioned the battle of Sekigahara. 😅 The author changed the names around for so many characters and factions, I never put two and two together.
Blackthorne never leaves Japan…as indicated by the fact he still had Mariko’s crucifix in the flash forward to him as an old man, it wasn’t possible for him to still have it…as he dropped it into the water when in the boat with Fuji. That was the dream within a dream, he was dreaming of his dream future (back in England, dying surrounded by his family)…he was imagining it whilst unconscious after the explosion.
17:47 Recall In Ep5 "broken to the fist" - After the incident of the drunken night with Fuji, Buntaro and in the following morning John and Mariko was having the conversation:
John: "my life is mine & yours is yours" (and that if she can't see past that she'll never be free of that prison)
Marikko: "it is you that is imprisoned" (If freedom is what he lived for, he shall never be free of himself)
In the finale here, John finally understood the basis of his idea logy, dreams in that moment. (we live & we die, and control nothing beyond that)
He decides to commit seppuku, thus killing those dreams. He was stopped at the very last moment by his liege.
That is the new john finding new purpose after that, breaking that prison he has encapsulated himself in.
This show is so layered and the depth so intricate it warrants many re-watches. A true masterpiece!
Bro, the smile Yabu and Toranaga shared at the very end. Like I see you dog, When he said "why tell a dead man?" was what yabu had said to Omi in the first episode. So toranaga probably knew every move Yabu had made since the beginning.
Yabushige IS me. Try every damn plan and scheme to live wealthy and healthy but fucking up and ending with nothing. He ended up with nothing, No land, no legacy. At least he got a beautiful death.
One thing thats stuck with me since finishing this show is that by the end somehow Yabushige is the most likeable piece of shit ever and even though you know he deserves his death you still kinda dont want it. Meanwhile Toranaga who's been positioned as the good guy the whole time is making it super hard for you to get behind his plans because of the sacrifices its taking to make happen. i and a few people i talk to really struggled to like him by the end. But then you sit back and realize that while we had to suffer these losses, and what feels like unnecessary deaths avoided full scale war. He prevented so much more meaningless death. God this show is fantastic
the old Anjin is a vison or a dream of how his life will be if he leaves Japan, nobody understanding, remembering what he seen and been experiencing, also the nice touch with the kids saying savage's. But that's not his future since we see him drop the cross in the water so he choose a different future and stays in Japan
Shout out from Durban South Africa. You guys are one of my fav reactors.
The final eye to eye smiles were like "You smart ***" "I know"
The show creators confirmed on the show podcast that the vision of blackthorne in England is just a dream, a version of his old self that’s dying (referring to Japanese folks as “savages”) that occurs each time he’s blacked out. He (and the real life person he’s based on) never leave Japan.
Anyone knows if they're going to see dungeon meshi??
They didn't like the first two episodes so no they won't see more of it
@@PrinterThorn thats a shame cause its so good
@@PrinterThorn damn really? It's so good I wish I could see their reaction
I've been watching reaction video after reaction video to episode 10. Literally Roshi is the first person to realize that the 'flash-forward' was a dream of a dream.
26:51 a dream of a dream 🎉
All 3 of yall must and went and got your hair done together how cute lol
Shogun is based on true stories of real people only some have different names in Shogun's book. There was an Englishman who came to Japan his name was William Adams. He never left Japan. The emperor did not allow him first to go back home. But after years of working for him and building a fleet of ships, he gave permission to Adams to go back but he did not want to. Adams is buried with his second wife in Japan. Even his 2 hometowns have an Anjin parade. He is still remembered and respected in Japan.
Yabushige and Torenagas scene was probably my favourite, yeah it was complete exposition but it was satisfying seing Torenaga finally reveiling his secret heart...
YaBoyShige will be remembered
We really don't get show like this too often now. I mean there have been a lot of good things that have come out but Shogun just feels like its in its own league of awesome.
Thank you for your reaction to shogun. Love it.