It's not surprising that he would feel that way growing up there. He sees the wealth and prosperity that he and his companions experience and is proud of the accomplishments of his city.
SPOILER (JAYCE/VIKTOR BIO) And you can already see the conflict with Viktor incoming, being a disabled and a zaunite. Jayce is entitled with vague buzzword ("progress", "liberty") while Viktor is far more compound when he speaks about human progress.
I think Piltover and Zaun is the most politically interesting area of Runeterra, it has so much potential and with the story of Arcane focusing on two sisters just surviving I’m really excited to see what they do.
Noxus also has a lot of political intrigue as well, I've always wondered how a person survives being a politician in a city full of assassins and... leblanc
@@someonelikeable616 Basically all those who survive are part of lb's plan at some extend. Some are even back ups plan just in case her first choice messes up.
@Pedro Benitez-Racero And... Well, Demacia is not that interesting tbh. They are pretty much usual monarchy setting, with a basic conflict explored in many different games (yeah, the mage revolution and discrimination is a topic in half fantasy settings). It is not bad, but... Vanilla, as almost everything in Demacia.
@@frostfrost8907 to me all of there regions are amazing Damacia has a Civil war, there king is dead, there prince had gone missing before, mages are a used and persecuted (except noble families they live with ease), 3 demon powerful demons are destroying each part of the county. Honestly I dont think damacia is that boring and vanilla. But it your points
Imo Caitlyns dynamic with Vi&Jinx and how it's framed will be integral to the framing of politics in Arcane. She is the sympathetic topsider being taken on a trip through Zaun by two very radical people, her perspective in the end will be telling on what Arcane is trying to show
@@travelkingable Caitlyn was already a cop. It doesn't lead to her becoming one. If anything, the end result seems to be her focused on protecting civilians, not following orders.
@@Silenteric then it's the "There can be good cops in a broken system" scenario, which is honestly worse than her being uncritically a tool of the state.
@@travelkingable I mean there indeed are good people inside broken systems, what would be bad is if you justified keeping a bad system because of those good people which I think is what you are implying
Before this video: Jinx is crazy for blowing up parts of Piltover After watching this video: You have to be crazy for not trying to blow up Piltover. Get Jinxed!
I'm not a league player, but I loved Arcane. I can't stop reading and watching lore now lol. I really relate to Jinx and how she developed, and I think not having any knowledge on her character beforehand helped me sympathize with her. I cried so much
I knew nothing, absolutely nothing about LoL, watched Arcane because it looked pretty. I ended very mad with Vi's betrayal. I can't accept that she went to the other side to by a cop, and she going to the Council to demand that they send troops to wreck the city instead of explaining who exactly was causing problems to prevent exactly what she was asking made no sense.
Ok but it was a bad idea, not figthing back but, starting with the top there's still a giant f*ck off army of enforcers and definitely enough layers of leadship to command said army. She blew up the current leadership but there will be a lot of people willing to take their place.
@@an8strengthkobold360 yeah but it's based lol. Like the SR terrorists killing tsarists before the bolshevik revolution, gotta show that someone's fighting back
I truly worry for the people employed by RIOT. If the politics writers are *forced to put into their games by the execs* follow the model of "a bad ruler is better than a disobedient citizen" then it's safe to assume that RIOT itself is run on the model of "a bad boss is better than a disobedient employee" and that's a terrifying thought.
@@rdtiel Might be a leap in logic on its own, but Riot legitimately does have issues with crunch and overworking of employees. There was a walkout in 2019 and demands for unionization
It was very funny hearing Caitlyn sarcastically say to Vi "I suppose topsiders are responsible for all your problems?" Because Piltover is literally responsible for everything going on in The Lanes. The only thing anyone in Piltover does for The Lanes that isn't entirely negative is maintaining a relationship with the effective leader to keep the peace. But there's no benefit for The Lanes other than not getting violently attacked again. And it's not any figures of particular power that maintain this parasitic, yet empathetic deal; It's an Enforcer. None of the council members make efforts to properly negotiate better conditions for the underground, they merely want a pacified populace to let them continue running their city into the ground with pollution and total disregard for safety/health. Vander has a good heart, but he's not a hero for constantly telling his people to avoid fighting for a better future. In fact we see from Jayce's story a positive take on fighting the system to improve the future, but as his rebellion was bloodless it was shown as good and heroic. Zaun does not have that luxury, and their inevitable conflict is displayed as not entirely justifiable as though there's a peaceful solution to getting Piltover's boot off their collective throats. I am sure it'll end with that centrist message, so my main concern is how Vi's character can be reconciled when she's seen firsthand the corruption of Piltover and all the terrible effects on The Lanes it's had. Piltover doesn't need her near as much as Zaun does, so why would she go and stay? I suppose this also captures my interest as I am increasingly curious what direction Vi takes to justify her future choices; Will she just not care? Will she gain a more self-centered perspective? Can she really forget everyone down there for the city responsible for the horrors she's seen? Many questions yet to be answered, and will hopefully be answered in the final act.
The very first thing Vi does when she gets a chance to talk to the Council is request them to take out Silco with the biggest guns they have. She then accompanies a squad of Enforcers to destroy one of Silco's factories. And she's entirely justified to feel that way. Probably wrong, but justified. The problem with class analyses (like most analytical frameworks) is that they can inadvertently smooth over the actual conflicts and concerns in an attempt to force everything into the desired framework. Vi is not "centrist" because she wants to punch out Silco. There is no reason Vi as a character should feel even an ounce of solidarity with a rich crime lord who destroyed her family, flooded the undercity with drugs, and used Piltover's police to crush his political opponents. Class analyses of Arcane are also frustrating because they NEVER discuss Ekko and the Firelights. All this talk about violence as a force for change and somehow the people committing guerrilla attacks against the man in broad daylight never get a mention.
@@latrodectusmactans7592 I think the reason Ekko and the Firelights don't get mentioned much, specifically in the context of class analysis between Piltover and Zaun, is because they represent an alternative for how a better Zaun could work, but not an alternative to the broader conflict. If Ekko had the manpower and means, I'm 90% certain they would be going after Piltover and the Enforcers just as much as Silco. So, they get folded into the broader class of the Undercity, because that's where their interests are.
I also think what's interesting about Vander is he experienced what happens when you try and fight, actually fight for the good of the people. People die, people get hurt on both ends, and then next thing you know the entire underground safety is you're responsibility, all the while you look after two orphaned girls - who would have still had their parents if you kept you're head down. That's an experience I can't see anyone wanting to see repeated, and honestly I understand his position
Sylas is a forever fave of mine and I am continually mad with his portrayal as a villain for trying to overthrow a system that has systemically abused and murdered people for being born different.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 The problem is when pretty much every revolutionary or person looking for radical change that you depict are portrayed as evil. Xerath, Sylas and now this character from Aracne. At this point it stops being “just showing that leaders of revolutions can be bad” to becoming an active statement that revolutions in general are bad. As Skyen explains the problem is also that all these characters are shown as inherently less sympathetic than the leaders of the oppressive systems they seek to overthrow. No matter how bad a person they are it is pretty fucking rich to claim that: a revolting slave is as bad as his master or a member of an actively genocideded people and his genocider are comparably bad. And that is like I said not even what is being shown, instead the oppressors are shown as BETTER than the oppressed, because they revolted and tried to break free from the system.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 What Einder below said is relevant to my view point as well, I.e. Riot didn’t need to portray him like that, it was entirely possible to paint Sylas in a way that he wasn’t a villain and it was their choice as the ones building the narrative to write it in a way that wags a finger at Sylas and his beliefs, but also, you say he’s a thug, but i don’t recall him actually doing anything in his story to support such a notion. I may be forgetting something, so please feel free to correct me, but what exactly has he done that the Demacian military and nobility haven’t done to people with magic in their attempts to wipe it out and maintain control of their city-state? I can see an argument for the ‘model rebel’ mandating someone be better than their oppressors, but that isn’t how the world really works, and I don’t think it’s fair to ask people who have been persecuted to be kind to the people who have destroyed their lives and livelihoods just because it would be taking the moral high ground. And that’s kind of the issue here, because Sylas is not a perfect moral bastion he’s painted as a villain and “just as bad” when the two injustices are not at all equal. Tl:dr; I acknowledge the narrative has decided Sylas is a villain and I still love him, I just don’t necessarily agree with the idea that he is more evil or even on an equal staging of morality as a government that has persecuted, imprisoned and executed people who have magic just because they wanted to maintain their status and control.
@@jackrahbit8343 that one time he would only let a dude be free if he killed another dude. like the character you idolize isnt sylas, you like the idea of what you wanted him to be. you have made your own separate character from the actual Sylas and made that your forever fav and ignore any current thing Sylas has done that makes him not the bright eyed freedom fighter you wish he was.
@@gigimelenohelophobia471 chill chill mate, I literally asked for the correction if I had forgotten something; that’s not me ignoring things about the character, that’s me needing to have brain space for more than League Lore. You’re making a lot of assumptions that just aren’t true because I have a different view and dislike some of the characterization of a character that I really like. I’m fine with Sylas being a villain, he’s still a fave villain or not, I just think it’s worth examining Riot’s constant insistence on making sure they shrug and go “but both sides!” which is what the entire vid is about P:
@@jackrahbit8343 The thing is, that they want people to like said regions. If they go with the narrative with the 'one side' statement, then they can't have their cake and eat it too. You have to recognize that they are going to continue making characters for these regions and likely don't want them immediately hated for being on the 'wrong side'. It's also why Noxus was developed into being less objectively evil into its current iteration. Whether or not any of this is the right call, is not for me to say. I am simply stating that they sort of have to do it this way if they're going to have this plot thread where you can play characters on both sides of the conflict.
As a latinamerican, me, and my friends, we always though that Zaun was a representation of our continent. A common day for us involves poverty, fear of the police, being robbed, being hungry. The norm for us is violence and corruption and loose of hope. We can only dream for the chance to get out of here. Even countries that seem to be in a good spot, are not, those are usually silent hells. You can imagine our surprise when Ixtal came out, and our not so much of a surprise to see it being forgoten, like our continent is ussaly be by riot. We were excited to finally see a latin representation, and we had a Hella Thicc mean girl. yeah... About Zaun, i crave for the exploration of Piltover's society and i trully want to see a story of the low class rising. The idea of the academy giving oportunities to "everyone" for a chance of growth is trully inspiring and i would like to see actual poor characters getting a better life and using it to help others In The Real Way. Tecnology is fine, but a kid starving won't be helped by it easily. Ekko is trully my hero, is someone i wanted to be as a child, smart and skilled and someone who can protect the ones around him. I remember having 11y.o. (i'm the older of six sibblings) and thinking that my parents won't be home because they are working and i have to take care of the house, and some days we had enough rize to pass the night. I remember going with my father every weekind since i was 5 to seel the cartoon and the plastincs we gathered and celebrate with coockies and soda, until the inflation made the money worth less so we had so buy only the necessary. I remember feeling hungry because i gave my food to my siblings. I trully hope Riot tells the story in the way it should be. Systemic violence is what creates all we live everyday in my continent. Systemic violence should not be treated respectfully.
Riot's treatment of Ixtal is a shame, it's such a wonderful region that is barely explored. I also think you're probably not too far off, after all, Riot is an US company and their history with Latin America definitely would be at least indirectly influencing an American reading of capitalist exploitation. Also, considering Ixtal, Zauns neighbour nation, is based on Latin America and Piltover uses Deco Art aesthetics as they are associated with 1920's USA, the connection between the two continents kinda resembles the isthmus between North- and South America.
Sometimes the internet really makes me appreciate how fucking lucky I am. I'm also a latin american, but I'm in Chile and I live as a middle class citizen. While there were months where I could only eat rice and chicken because my dad was jobless and my mom didn't make enough, we actually made it through and I hope you guys do the same. You'll get out of there, I promise. I'd propose to maybe consider going to study abroad with a full scholarship, but that's not an option for a lot of people...
Me, being dragged by two nurses through a hallway back to my room: SYLAS WAS RIGHT! BURN DEMACIA! The nurses, paid by Riot: it's nap time, night night both sides are right~
"Having conceived Babel, yet unable to build it themselves, they had thousands to build it for them. But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of those who planned. And the minds that planned the Tower of Babel cared nothing for the workers who built it. The hymns of praise of the few became the curses of the many." Metropolis continues to stay relevant nearly 100 years after. I will be so disappointed if they don't pay at least some homage to the Ur-example of Cyberpunk.
@@nullskull6860 Metropolis, a film from 1930 (iirc). it is about a society divided in two (the workers and the rich), in which a wealthy guy falls in love with one of the workers. a lot of it was lost because of shitty preservation and wwii, but there is a mostly complete version that came out in 2010 or so.
Skyen: *Warns us that he is being payed to talk Arcane and has motivation to be positive* Also Skyen: *Produces an eloquent and blistering spicy piece, dismantling Riot's story telling structure and presenting that what riot tells us to think isn't the only, let alone best, perspective to take.*
@@Oscar97o most game devs don't *explicitly* tell anyone what to think. However, like skyen says, every story is presented through a certain lens and with a certain mental/philosophical/political/whatever framework. Humans are inherently imperfect and biased, so how can we make things that are 100% completely unbiased? They're not telling us explicitly to think anything, but the choices they make in their stories tell us something anyway, whether we like it or not.
@@danha3107 however, as a viewer it is pedantic and loses the point of the entertainment/art if you don't at first view it through the lens given, *then* push past it.
@@kitnal4143 yes ofc. I should’ve been more clesr about that. I’m just saying that I think it’s important to recognize that because the idea that “they’re not telling you to think anything, they just make stuff” is just wrong
@@danha3107 yeah, I guess I see it as a more: " they make stuff that is insight into how *they think* and follows the creators viewpoints" rather rather "they are trying to make you think a certain way". I could be wrong, but I don't think art that tells people what to think works very well.
"Remember to act with solidarity towards those who are worse off than yourself" Best signoff I've heard in a long time, thanks for keeping it real. You got me really interested in the show, I'll be watching it!
The funny thing about "don't judge" or "don't choose a side" is that the person who tells it always chooses the side. Still, there is someone good and someone bad. And only in recent years has there been a mania to please everyone at once. Which made some characters more complex and better revealed motivation. On the other hand, it removed from the focus of the characters whose motivation is really bad things: greed, malice, corruption, insidiousness. Which in general makes the stories too vanilla-sweet. Like a cartoon about a pony. But bad people exist.
"I have no poli-sci degree" He says as he proceeds to dismantle some questionable story telling perfectly and eloquently. This is why he is my favorite League RUclipsr and the only one tbh. And I dont even play any Riot Games games anymore. Awesome video TB keep the high quality commentary coming.
@@markmittelbach7975 yeah, his observations doesn't require a degree. It's straightforward and concise if you know the story he's going for (that's a compliment).
@@markmittelbach7975 If you really think that, I'm either worried about the quality of your degree, or you have a particularly negative view of academic papers in general (which I would understand)
I just realised that Zed similarly is portrayed as evil for trying to have the Kinkou take a more active role in defending ionic, also falling into this pattern.
I'd argue he's not so much bad because of his stance on defending Ionia as he is because of the methods he uses and pushes other people into, that being shadow magic. Shadow magic is demonstrably harmful to the user when employed in excess.
Didn't Zed also try to drain the life energy of Ionia to power something in the Xayah/Rakan trailer though? Idk, I might be remembering this completely wrong. (also Xayah winning that fight is funny when you consider what would happen in game)
Is Zed portrayed as evil though? I get the impression that he's presented as flawed, but has a point, and that Shen is the one who sticks to the old ways too strictly. Even Akali, Shen's own student recognises that the Kinkou Order is too passive. Hell, even KARMA, the Spirit of Ionia, recognises that violent action is needed.
Actually Zed is improving. Originally he was stereotypical, but his speeches made sense... until they introduced Jhin, where they brought reason to why he did those things. Seeing how well they humanized Victor when t hey could just make a cliche story on him, I really, really think they'll explore the shit out of Zed.
The two sides ended up being presented not as two sides piltover and Zaun but much more about the two (or more) sides of the various character stories. Jinx and Vic, Jayce and Victor, Silco and Vander. While there is some happy memories associated with the peace Vander sought with Officer Grayson, it is still represented as tenuous and, in some ways, one made in fear. Vander is afraid and Silco is violent, but we see that it was Vander who betrayed the cause and Silco who took it down a darker road. The conflict between Vander and Vi is also hinged on this idea, peace in misery versus violence towards progress. I'll be interested to see how it all progresses
I wanna know your thoughts now. I think that Piltover is portrayed as scum throughout the series. The only redeeming people are the young and innocent. I feel like Jayce is a redeemable idiot, but still doesn’t get the inequality between him and Viktor. And Zaun is portrayed as an animal pushed to its limits. Violent and scary, but you can’t blame them.
My main complaint about the show on this front is the treatment of hummerdinger. At the start of the show he's clearly the most respected and influential member of the council of Piltover, and given his age and inhuman life span he's probably been such for decades if not more. He is /personally/ responsible for the state of affairs in the city and undercity. His policies, his failure to notice, really failure to care, was necessary for things to get so bad in the first place. The show's implied message is 'how sad, if only he'd known, if only someone from the undercity had reached out to him sooner, he could have done something years ago', but he was in charge, the moral imperative should have been on him to see, not on those suffering under his policies to penetrate the gilded bubble of power and privilege that he helped build around himself and his fellow elite. I just wish there had been some recognition of that culpability in the text. A 'what have I built' moment. But it never comes. The narrative frames furry yoda as blameless and above reproach.
I don’t know, I don’t think the show portrayed him as really all that innocent. His interactions with Viktor are often unintentionally cruel as he kinda ignores Viktor’s suffering and doesn’t do anything to help him cure his illness. As well, we can put together that the same negligence he showed toward Vik and Jayce also led to Singed being able to be let loose in Zaun. Overall I’d say his inaction is directly shown to cause massive problems for the people of the undercity. He does also have a ‘what have I done?’ moment when he explores Zaun on his own after he got kicked off the council. his redemption arc begins to start because he chose to acknowledge the problems in the undercity on his own, not because a zaunite reached out to him.
Just watched the first arc and with how horrifying Silco is I really hope we get some kind of Piltover equivalent, even if its in a roundabout way like comparing the system itself to Silco. Whether Piltover rulers know about him or not he is their responsibility and they allowed Zaun to get to that point in the first place. No matter how horrifying or power hungry Silco is he is a product of Zaun. This will not end when Silco is defeated. WIth the opening shot of arcane literally being a cop killing civilians I really don't have an idea of how Vi becomes a police officer without serious overhaul to the police force, Caitlyn is nice and Vi's views can change to understand the police better, but damn i really hope they don't just show her more Zaunite atrocities and have her go "ah i guess there ARE worse things than Enforcers better join the Enforcers" as if a person who had seen their own parents murdered in cold blood could ever rationalize that as less of a threat. Unless the point is how Vi is utterly broken and beaten to the point she'll do anything to have a place even if it's join the police, but i highly doubt thats gonna be the case? Also how will Caitlyn react to being told of the atrocities the Enforcers have commited. Will she fire people? Will she vow to help rebuild a broken police force even if it rejects her? Will she become vigilante Batman and serve and protect all of Piltover and Zaun saying fuck the piltover rule i have gadgets? I highly doubt that last one would happen but it would be cool and be able to have Cait's sense of duty conflict with her upbringing.
There are implications from Vi's lore that she was brainwashed and doesn't remember her childhood. Of course we'll see how the show handles this strange transition.
I mean the police are shown as brutal and corrupt beating people around and the leaders luitenent sides with silco for money one of the people running the administration is insinuated to be an idiot easily pressured and convinced by honeyed words and impressed by children's toys. Jayce is effectively othered by Caitlyn's family not fully because they think he's dangerous but because he's of a much lower house and removed from the academy.
Your content is immaculate. I think the concept of a character like Sylas being "flawed" could lead to an interesting story, but not when he is portraid as a villain for not only questioning the system, but to stand up, and stand against said system. Also it's very interesting that the name of the company is y'know...Riot, and yet if the character does so much as point a finger at the flaws of the system they are treated as a "bad guy".
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 Yes, that's true, most revolutionaries have done and still are doing some terrible things and it's completely valid to cast a light on that to not idolize bad people for their only redeeming action, but thing is that both sides act like they're in the right and they have no flaws, that's just silly, you can ask someone that has lived through revolutions and government oppression and you see how jaded about everything they are, they have seen, both sides, time and time again making the same mistakes as the previous ones, the point I'm trying to make is that, in your comment I see that you feel like a revolution, a violent, armed revolution is never the right thing to do but you have to understand, when the people have felt like their lives don't belong to them, like you don't get to decide how to live your own life, generation after generation of oppressed, torn apart from the absolute despair of seeing a loved one lose their life because they dare to speak badly of the government, do you really think a government like that should just stay as it is cuz revolution violent bad?
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 I agree with both of you.Thank you for pointing out the possibility of passing people as "heroic !" instead of flawed people who often are just as bad as others. I agree about Sylas, i really like him as himself a flawed character, but the framing is what I don't like, it instead frames him as the villain, and ignores the flaws of the system, it shows him as just a "bad guy" going against the "totally not flawed and oppressive system". It's pretty hard in general to not make it feel like the story is just excusing terrible people, which is how the Sylas and Xerath framing feel like to me.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 Actually I totally agree with your point there, I actually hate the idea that a singular person is "the hero" of the "glorious revolution" I have seen that, time and time again just leads to fanaticism.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 That doesn't mean you write revelationaires as one dimensional bad guys, that's just as bad as white washing revelationaires because they're no naunce. Yes, revelutions often end up becoming as bad as the oppressors but there are good arguments for violent action and not all people who support violence are just madmen indulging in violence or simply fighting for more power. The solution is to simply have a villain that simply wants a revelution for the sake of reveage thus showing have violent protest can lead to people becoming just as bad as the status quo and another character that use violence but has self-restraint and simply wants change but still pointing out the issues that come with violent revelution.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 There's not even one person he uses violence and has self restraint, Sylas is the only character representing violent protest and that's the problem. I'll give Riot credit for showing both sides however one side is being more humanized than the other.
Man, now after watching the show it's crazy how well Heimerdinger encapsulates your last point. He is a politician and founding father of the city and is depicted as the ultimate "moral good" of the story despite the fact that he perpetuates a system that exploits, demeans, and kills the people of the undercity. He sees magic as terrifying and evil and tells Jayce that magic has caused great harm in the past but never expands upon what happened; keeping that information to himself and expecting Jayce to just accept what he says is true. If you haven't watched past episode 3 stop reading but his conversation with Victor was pretty chilling when you think about it. Here is Victor, dying and about to have a breakthrough on research that could save his life, and Heimerdinger basically says my condolences but you have to stop. What is Heimer so scared of? That magic may get in the "wrong hands" and cause death and destruction. If access to power with the potential to do both great good and great hard would lead to death and destruction if it got in the hands of the lower class what does that say about your society? Heimer wants to maintain the status quo and Victor is expected to martyr himself for it.
⚠️Spoiler warning ⚠️ : To add to that when he’s kicked off the council and he goes to the under-city and sees how fucked it is I feel like they should have shown more of him seeing what he has allowed to rot and fester and understanding that he has been a horrible leader.
You're pretty spot on with how the story is playing out. We learn right off the bat that at some point the people of Zaun attempted to overthrow Piltover in a rebellion that catastrophically failed, leaving Vander scarred for life and unwilling to take further action against them lest he have further blood on "his hands". His attitude of increasingly suicidal pacifism, even when they repeatedly and directly threaten his children and surprise raid his home/business, is "good" because he's "avoiding pointless bloodshed", while Silco attempting to reunite Piltover and Zaum as one nation by force is "evil" because he's an "evil and ambitious opportunist crime boss who doesn't care if people get hurt". Note that at no point when someone tries to get Vander to actively resist or fight Piltover does he advocate peaceful reform or that violence is wrong. His only rebuttal boils down to "we can't win". **At no point does Vander ever state that Piltover doesn't deserve to be overthrown**, it's that he no longer believes it's *possible* and is now content to placate his oppressors in the hopes they won't oppress him further. It's pretty clear the direction the story is going to go. The people of Zaum will eventually be "duped" into rallying around Silco's super drug-fuelled rebellion (totally ignoring the fact that Zaum has every right to want Piltover overthrown for being a corrupt oligarchy that gets off on oppressing them and literally drowning them in their trash and pollution), while the Piltover council will be "manipulated" by Mel into taking a "hard stance" and being needlessly cruel to Zaun to pour fuel on the fire (ignoring the fact that the Council is morally bankrupt and totally okay with screwing over Zaum on a good day, if not outright gunning them down en masse if they its people ever forget "their place"). Eventually Silco will get killed and Mel will be arrested, the tension will suddenly deescalate as if these two goons had mind-controlled everyone into following them rather than their existence being the symptom of the real problem, and we'll end on the non-ending of "now that Jayce and Caitlyn are in high-ranking positions in Piltover and Vy is a Warden policing Zaum's streets, we can peacefully reform the system from within and end the class divide *the right way*".
There is not a single word saying silco is erong and its bad. At least I dont think of it like that. And I think thats enough, he is not bad, he thinks differently than vander.
@@rammycanales3784 he is bad but that's because he is an abusive person that's just evil and is only after money and power himself. Yes he wants piltover overthrown but not for the right reasons. He wants it overthrown so that he can be the man in power who gets the same privileges as the council does now. Vander is not perfect either. But at least he tries to protect his people and he uses his power to keep everyone as safe as he can. If he would succeed he would install a political system that is similar to democracy more likely than Silco. Because his motivations are not driven by a hunger for power but rather for justice. Silco would just start giving privileges to Zaun people and giving disadvantages to Piltover People only resulting in a flipped over situation between Piltover and Zaun but basically the same as before.
This... was really not the read I got on it. Vander's position isn't shown as "good." He's chosen inaction, and it's *very clearly* not actually working. Everyone around him - his friends, his family, his peers, and his competitors alike all express their frustration with his passivity and point out - sometimes to Vander himself - that he's not actually helping anyone. However, it is presented as a *sympathetic* position; He lost however many friends and comrades in that first rebellion, undoubtedly absorbed a lot of trauma personally, and is caring for the orphans of those people he lost. His inaction is wrong, but it's understandable why he is where he is. he's lost so much and is terrified of losing what little he still has. He fought, he lost, and he gave up the fight. Silco on the other hand is, is a really interesting inversion, and as presented in Arcane, could definitely be one of the best antivillains I've ever seen. Magneto-level. yes, he absolutely does villainous acts... but these are mostly offenses against traditional law and order, in a society where traditional law and order is obviously antagonistic towards him and his entire community simply because they exist. he clearly believes violence between Zaun and Piltover is inevitable, and he prepares accordingly for that... but he does not seek to instigate that violence. In fact the actions he takes in this regard are pretty much entirely peaceful (if coercive) - he buys off the police to keep them out of Zaun (specifically he entraps and blackmails a police officer who until that point had been filling air with genocidal ranting.) Later on he actually presents a whole-ass diplomatic option to Jace to resolve the conflict and gain independence. His political theses are not only repeated at various times by the protagonists (especially Vi) but they are also constantly proven to be correct. And not through Silco manipulating circumstances to get that result, it's just because that's how things really are.
Skyen did what no other content creator had the guts to do: he tackled the politics of piltover and zaun in one of the biggest media releases on one of the biggest and most toxic gaming communities out there. i have nothing but utmost respect for you, my man. Also prepare for the shitstorm that is going to come from this here and on twitter on the following days
@@simonm1233 well COD is dominated by children. League gears towards more to teens and adults. And I kid you not... the toxic from kids is different from the toxic from grown up.
I dont think its about other creators having guts or not, but more so about having interest in the thing. Plenty of people dont think about this angle of inquiry because its not something they are used to keep an eye out for, even if for people who are in the know one physicaly cant unsee political messaging. Hell, writers often cant see it, even as basic as "drawing equivalence is a political statement", and they wrote these!
This was spot on and exactly why the story started to drop off towards the second half. Silco was introduced as a revolutionary willing to fight for change at any cost, and took in Jinx out of a connection through betrayal. By the second half he's just a drug pushing manipulator interested in personal power while Piltover's corruption is seen as just minor trade regulation breaches
It always bothered me that Sylas was portrayed as just a villain, instead of someone who was desperate and broken by so many years of torture and unfair treatment... and was driven to take extreme actions.
@@joaoteodororeis2051 Demacia's rule of capturing, torturing and killing mages just for being who they are costed a lot of lives, too. If Sylas is a villain, then so are Jarvan III, Jarvan IV and the upper class of Demacia. Also, take into account that they've been hunting mages for centuries.
@@mafediaz1934 any of them is good. Do you think random people of demacia have to be killed just because of the leaders? NO. Usually jokers of history end badly, you need probably some violence but in the end a political structure behind.
And those extreme actions make him a villain. Just like how Demacia's government is a villain as well. Both sides are committing bad things. Yes, Sylas was basically created by this system, doesn't excuse his actions. Just like the government isn't excused either. No one wins the ethical war.
"The system is good! The problem is that a few bad apples created the bad situation! As soon as the good apple is in the right place evwrything will be good again!" Uhh... Why would you consider a system good if a few people can throw a wrench into it and screw evwrything up? A system with a clear and crucial flaw is not a good one! Failsafes people! Mechanisms that forbid "a few bad apples" to ruin everything for everyone else!
@@StarDreamsStudios But any system that relies in a single position/person is easier to corrupt Systems don't have to depend on "good intentions" nor "good faith". Look at the legal system, and in particular, DMCA. That system is prone to abuse because it depends in the good faith of the person making the DMCA claim has evidence that their copyright is being disrespected, and platforms have no responsability to check if said claim is true
There's also the thing that if they portray some piltovians (likely caitlyn) as the "good apple"...we alrrady know that despite this, they did nothing to change the system
Hey no I totally get that, I felt the same way about the demcia story especially. That's why when they produced or showed the new Caitlyn voice lines I was kind of mad about it. Why is she all of a sudden the voice of reason and reform within P&Z and wants to bridge the gap but wasn't that the reason behind Vi?
The interesting topic would also be: How far would you go, in your despair to end the awful situation that you're in because of people who disregard other people's life, to end it? Sometimes we see these tragic characters (not heroes nor villains) become the people that they; in first instance, swore vengeance upon due to "necessity" and "not having any other option other than take action". Morally, where do those people end up when they had to do things not so "good"? Is it all only a cycle? Are they better than their former oppressors?
Good and evil are relative Realistically, I don't believe you can do any good in this world without getting your hands a little dirty Morally questionable choices are inevitable if you want quick results And a revolution, noble as it is, has never been without bloodshed Of course, we can always try to calm things down and be reasonable, but that won't work for everyone I'm not saying this is the best, or the only way, of course. In fiction, the protagonist would normally be the one who would resist the urge to do something bad just because it would make things easier saying "Just because it's easy doesn't mean it's right" and we would all cheer for them and their good vibes mentality But at the end of it, who knows? Maybe the hero is right Or maybe the ends really justify the means and they just can't bring themselves to do what it needs to be done
I can kind of see where Riot is coming from with trying to make their stories less black and white, as i think it makes stories much more interesting (at least for my tastes). But I will agree that most of their execution about making these themes more "grey" in a sense has been lacking to say the least. It remains to be seen wether or not arcane will succeed in these points but i think that piltover and zaun is one of the better narratives at the moment, and I hope it won't get dragged dowm by their apparent need for "impartiality"
I think its much less about making stories Grey and more like Gamers are Allergic to the P word and they have money Also right wing ideologies are not political
@@Bobogdan258 IMO the problem with azir and xerath is that azir didn't want a civil war, so he tried to undermine the slavery with tiniest possible steps, but shown nothing to xerath, because there wasn't much to show, but he could have just told xerath something he could even get him on his side (maybe) but he could have had better results by just that alone, as emperor he could have made difference (unlike irl), and xerath was mostly right, only thing that can dethrone the monarch is his people, just the way he did it was kind of dumb, if the ruler is going to be connected to dead-man switch nuke, delete him before he gets connected, in story xerath was shown to be smart and studying magic, but didn't thought "huh precisely calibrated powerfull magic could be dangerous when destabilized" just something I don't quite understand on that story.
“Trust the process” thinking: the tragic end of Arcane is the council unilaterally voting to “save” Zaun while an impatient and violent agent fires a bazooka at them.
What's even worse is, they didn't even talk about stopping to exploit them. They just talked about letting them be a separate city state while they exploit them and it took them forever to get to this tiny concession under threat of outright civil war. They tried to demonstrate why you should trust the process and instead perfectly demonstrated why the process doesn't work.
i have a degree in political science your discussion was great skyen, will return to flesh out my thoughts after work ok, i have some time, so I'm just gonna have a long stream of consciousness because i can't organize my thoughts on break. first i want to discuss the "right of revolution" that you may have come across before. this political philosophy indicates that a people has the right to revolt against a tyrannical government that directly endangers their wellbeing. american revolution, french revolution, iranian revolution. oppressors don't have any right to sovereignty. sovereignty lies within the people, and unless the people all willingly agree to bestow sovereignty onto a body, then there is no "rightful" overseer. using the american government as an example: we have traded in personal liberties and freedoms in exchange for the governing body ensuring their people very broad and general basic rights (bill of rights, constitution, amendments, you know the deal). in exchange for the government protecting these rights, we vest in them powers like creating laws, passing judgement, etc. they have a constituency to help the people - congress at a local level, the president at a national level. the concept in theory *should* work well. the issue is that we went from 13 states to 50, and the history of this country has been violent, bloody, full of horrible oppression that still loves to rear its ugly head today. the national constituency is often at odds with the local constituency. the pro being that many voices are heard, the con being that the two parties will always butt heads and progress is rarely ever made. the upper class control the direction of the country with their wallets while the working class have to figure out how to keep their liveliness. hey, what does that remind you of? sylas was not wrong. xerath was not wrong. when ekko trash talks piltover, he isn't wrong. they exploit the working class and use agents like camille to periodically remind zaunites that they will never, EVER be anything better than that. they allow the chem barons to abuse the working class, have no sympathy to people struggling to survive in hazardous living conditions, make no attempt to improve their lifestyle. sure, you could argue zaun is on the cusp of being an anarchist state, and anarchy = bad, but said anarchy is inflicted by piltover's governing body. they keep just enough control to ensure that the flow of goods and resources into their own hands remains steady, while letting the working class suffer and struggle to live day to day. it's pure, rampant, unchecked capitalism with no love for the common man.
@Mohamed Ramadan i didn't say wealth inequality is capitalism, i said wealty inequality is a product of unchecked capitalism. and rampant capitalism as I phrased it is not anarcho capitalism and/or laissez faire. Yes, rampant capitalism means completely unchecked capitalism and the free market. But I meant it in terms of it being corrupt and heavily controlled. piltover has a very clear rigid structure designed to maximize profit at the expense of the physical, mental and economic well being of the working class. i don't know how you can even try to argue this isn't a rampant, corrupt capitalist society. Laissez faire fundamentally doesn't work anymore because there will always be people who will monopolize, cut costs, and exploit to generate as much revenue for themselves as they can. They neglect to help out the people who make less than them because it does not serve their interest. In Piltover, the upper class control the direction society moves in by controlling the circulation high value goods such as hextech crystals, (which need I remind you are *products of genocide on Skarner's entire race*) and stamping out any working class citizens who try to make better futures for themselves. Ekko's parents are working themselves to the bones trying to secure a better future for him in Piltover. That future would literally entail them being separated from their son - it's effectively them sacrificing their lives to try and make sure Ekko lives a good life. I'd literally said that was a disorganized stream of consciousness, did you not read the first few sentences?
Arcane is going to be my first time directly interacting with LoL lore and plot, and while I already was cautious about Riot (with its MANY problems) presenting the series, I'm even more on my edge over the "both sides" comment. however. you've already talked a lot about this show, about the people's work and thoughts coming into it outside of pure "company think", about the animation *and* the politics that it's based on, and I've got some hope on having a good time without cringing about Some Choices. thanks for the vid!!
Even if you do make a "two sides" argument with Piltover and Zaun, and show both to be corrupt and have their leaders be drunk with power, that would still not make them equally bad or serve as an excuse to keep the status quo. I hope that even if Riot does intend to show both sides as evil, or at least more complex than "good side, bad side", they do address Zaun being entirely justified in wanting Piltover gone. Exploitation is horrible and even trying to make a case for maintaining the status quo is morally bankrupt and not easy for the audience to relate to if they know anything about the history of the two cities. I don't have high hopes, but until I see the series, I can still dream.
The Two Sides argument with these two is hilarious because you eventually run into Zaun is as bad as Piltover because *Checks notes* Piltover controls zaunite politics for money and power"
Another great video, and I say this as someone who DOES have a degree in political science. Thanks for your analyses TB, always a pleasure to listen to. TBH it's kinda motivating me to keep me writing my own stories, though of course they're never gonna become popular Netflix series lmao
It's funny the whole time watching arcane I was like 'ok I know who is supposed to be the bad guys but I definitely agree with them way more than the the people who are supposed to be the good guys' this is an excellent vid to break down the subtext in arcane. The final scene is a perfect example of the whole idea of the 'antagonist' being impatient
I think the problem is, and believe me I struggle with this all the time too, is that these stories are not *about* politics, they just have politics in them. At the end of the day, whether Piltover remains corrupt or not is irrelevant to the stories at large being told here. The political unrest is merely set-dressing or world-building meant to establish context for why these events might be happening, but it itself is not the main focus of the story. None of the characters are fighting a political revolution, except for of course, Silco, whose only purpose in the show is to serve as the antagonist. Even his political revolution plot is set-dressing meant to explain his motives, but his purpose is in how his revolution impacts all of the Champion/main characters and their stories. The only aspect of the government that really plays a significant role in any story is how The Council, namely Heimerdinger, impacts Jayce and Viktor's stories which have nothing really to do with equality and are more about the study of magic with regards to Hextech.
The downright psychotic degree of insistence so much media demonstrates that all arguments be treated as if both sides are equally valid is deeply, deeply frustrating.
i rly hope that singed will be in the storyline of arcane cuz he matches the story so much! there is the possibility that the barmen guy in the trailers is warwick and if warwick is in this story, singed has a high chance of being in the series.
My personal problem with Demacia is that even though they made Sylas extremally monstrous and really hard to sympathize with, as a person from Poland, I find it really hard to NOT sympathize with him. While I don't remember personally the days when our people faced genocide and enslavement ourselves I remember when my late grandfather told me stories about how he survived under the occupant and then under the communist regime. Those stories were a lot of times horrifying in how both the nazis and communists treated normal, everyday people and my grandfather didn't even live in the big city where oppression was even more extreme. I think that's the reason why I find Sylas sympathetic while Demacia seems absolutely monstrous. Like you said Jarvan IV and Garen have good intentions and believe they are the good guys but Hitler and Stalin believed that as well.
Also that jarvan and garen might have no idea how extreme these mageseeker are. I would think if you would try to change the System the mageseeker who would Lose their whole porpuse are going to the extreme with mages to Show how much theyre needed instead of beeing " ohh youre right we kill poeple cause we are scared "
@@bobob6128 That's the problem with carving out a world and stories within backstories and lore excerpts. You really can't progress stories beyond a certain point or they'll create changes that ripple out and change the world or other characters. Jarvan and Garen are "good guys" but they'll never discover how extreme mageseekers are because that would introduce change. Vi and Caitlyn are trying to protect as many people as they can while fighting against the corruption inherent in their system and hierarchy, but they'll never succeed meaningfully because that would introduce change. So it creates this weird stasis in the world of Runeterra where we have hundreds of stories going on, but none will actually finish or even progress.
I don't understand how people can't sympathize with Sylas. He grew up in a cell eating rats and only started a violent revolution when he was about to be executed for no reason.
@@zloktopod Considering the post was coming from a Polish perspective, nah, it's entirely appropriate to put Hitler and Stalin in the same sentence. If they can share a country before turning on each other, they can share a sentence.
I suspect that they see the Piltover-Zaun conflict more in light of the conflict between the Piltover Aristocrats and the Zaun Chem-Barons, as opposed to a true class conflict between those with political power and those without.
And much like data, you can't do anything meaningful _without_ politics. Though much unlike data, people like to pretend they don't have any politics at all.
@Tony Tran you really managed to take a word as inherently political as "progressive" and convice yourself it refers to something apolitical??..... this civilisation really depresses me
From what I have seen thus far the show actually criticizes Piltover quite a lot. In an episode Caitlyn actually sees that the lower levels of Zoan are horrible nightmarish and all kinds of fucked up, while Vi confronts her by saying "do you forget about this place, up there?" (or something along those lines). The kids are poor and trying to survive against the enforcers who are shown to be vicious and, all around assholes. So I'd say that the shows sides with the little guy, which I say it's a good change of pace. It also portrays the higher ups to be corrupt as all hell.
Riot: "let's fund this youtuber to make an Arcane video." TB: "so here is how Riot wrote Shurima to support slavery." Jokes aside though, I wouldn't be surprised if the writers wanted to tell a more reasonable story, but the Chinese censorship prohibited portraying anti-government characters in a positive light, so they smooth the edges.
Literally was thinking to myself "hey one more day till arcane i wonder if skyen is going to do a 'things to know' vid like necrit and dinka" and then (♡˙︶˙♡)
I started watching Arcane for the escapism from the monotony, repetitiveness, and loneliness of my everyday life, and didn’t really consider the political and social themes as all I desired was a fantastical world of magic, adventure, and heroism where I didn’t need to think as hard but sit back and enjoy the romantic themes and animation. Now, after watching act one, I’m staying for that deeper subject matter as I realized that it was what I had been yearning for in my other favorite shows. This video was extremely illuminating, and I hate that the story tellers are falling, once again, into their ways of defining the different classes/factions by a single representative, whilst pushing the ideals of the establishment’s superiority and that we shouldn’t revolt against an unjust system. I’m gonna keep watching though, I’m too far in to stop now. Thank you for this eloquent breakdown and analysis!
After the show coming out, here's a quote that's exactly what you are getting at "I'm not putting you away Vander." "Without you down here, it all falls apart." That with the right people on top, "trust the process" and it'll work out. Or maybe I'm just bad at interpretation.
Late to this but I figured I'd give my two cents. Piltover and the Enforcers don't intend to lock Vander up because he is a passive enforcer (heh) of the status quo. He is the idea of a person who has given up because he "doesn't want things to get worse." His revolt led to the deaths of many and several orphans (who he adopted), and he wants to live a passive life doing whatever he can to make sure things stay peaceful. Silco, on the other hand, believes for the longest time that nothing is more important than independence. After all, if your nation is independent there won't BE any worry of your children going hungry, or your parents dying of overwork. He didn't understand Vander's passivity until he took in Jinx as a daughter. It's why the deal was doomed the moment Jayce demanded the handover of Jinx to the Enforcers. Silco had absolutely 0 intention of ever giving her up and he would have either negotiated for a different solution or called it off altogether.
Vey well put, this is exactly what I feel might disappoint me with Arcane. I've had the same issue with Legend of Korra where the first season had a very bad dynamics between factions and all grievances of non benders vs benders where just thrown out as jealousy and the main issue was never examined
I feel like there is a degree of evil wherein violence and revolution is absolutily needed to overcome it. But I'm still skeptical cause most revolutions generally don't work out as planned.
Revolutions are never perfect, but often necessary. You can't predict the future, but it stands to reason if you let things continue as they are they will continue to stay that way. Hoping that things will get better as time progresses isn't effective, and if other non-revolutionary actions aren't sufficient to get the needed change then the only option left is to revolt. Nobody ever wants it to come to that, but if you can't avoid it you can't get too hung up on what happens after until you actually make it there.
after watching the first 3 episodes, i think i can conclude that this time it is not from an authoritarian bias, but actually examining the politics. silco, though a bit power hungry, genuinely tries to do what's best for the people of zaun, whilst his former partner, vander, is collaborating with piltover, betraying his former self to make his life easier. silco and jinx, are the heroes of the story because they stay true to themselves. whilst vi, and all of piltover, are the villains for accepting a system of oppression
While I agree with your conclusion, the framing of the show so far has Silco and Jinx as the "bad side". If you asked people who the villain is after these 3 episodes most would say Silco and almost no one would say Mel and her council, who really are the main upholders of opression.
@@pointlessnesses i think that the more astute watchers will be able to point out that the reason zaun is how it is right now is because of the mistreatment by piltover. and silco, now with jinx, are trying to end this stranglehold on zaun.
I would like to point out that once again the villain, and it is Silco, is being portrayed as someone seeking vengeance against the system and can be considered both callous and ruthless.
@@SH-qs7ee Silco just wants power for himself. He opresses everyone in his circle if they stop to support everything he does.. Mel is manipulative and evil too. So is half of the council. I think there are evil people on both sides. There is no clear Villian in my opinion. But if I had to choose I would say it's the head of the council Mel and Silco. We don't know what Jinx's motives and desires are yet.
SPOILER WARNING!!! So far with what I've seen with Arcane they are doing a fairly good job of not falling into this tarp though there are some parts I am kind of cynical of. I think the best example is that Silco plan worked. While it is hard to seem Vander as necessarily wrong, he's strategy did help prevent mass collateral damage that would the under-city residents would have suffered if war broke out, and Silco's actions are irredeemable, especially mass disrupting the drug Shimmer which hurt a massive number of undercity residents. At the same time his strategy sort of worked. Jace might have agreed to make peace because he was traumatized seeing a kid killed as collateral damage, but let's be honest, the rest of the Piltover elites were just cared shitless of a war, probably did not want to damage all the side deals they had with Silco and his ilk, and Mel probably had a lot of dirt on all of them. Also, there is the long running double standard you seem multiple time for Piltover verses, Under-City residents, Jace refusing to crack down on Piltover corruption, him getting a promotion for his dangerous experiments, while Vi hunted down and thrown into a prison that's shock Gitmo guards, for indirectly causing it. Which also lends itself to examining how the Piltover system creates its own problems. Corruption and negligence is just as responsible for every as Silco of Jinx, the last episode is even called "The monster you Create". I think in this case the showing also side comment was more about understand the complexities of not only these issues but how we address them. You can both respect and be frustrated by Vanders policy, and both hate Silco's actions and understand where they are coming from. Also, the fact he has resistance from other undercity residences is important to note. It can of shows the rebellion can be done "right", but you got to be careful to not latch on to whatever demagogue claims to be fighting for the greater good and blindly fallows his strategies without though for the consequences.
I am still really hopeful having watched the first 2 parts that it has something interesting to say beyond centrism. Nobably in the show's criticisms of Heimerdinger we get some resistance to King's the myth of time and it's done by one of our piltover heroes. Heim is a good vehicle for this due to his longevity. It's gonna be interesting to see if they stick to that idea or if it's revealed to be portrayed as a character flaw in part 3. It was really hard to say what it would be in the moment. I honestly just hope they don't do Vi and Victor dirty in this. Even though I know her backstory, I hope she doesn't end up as a cop and I hope he's portrayed sympathetically. Basically it's make or break for part 3 and it's kinda interesting not knowing where they're going to go with it. I know my hopes will probably be dashed but based on a lot of what I've seen so far I'm willing to take the risk.
The class conflict here is unavoidable. I don't think Riot quite understands what they've done here with this whole war between the rich and the working class. Zaun is right to be upset. They are living in the worst of conditions. If they don't address that, I'll be pretty upset. But then again, it's Riot, and as you've mentioned it's far from the first time they've taken a moral conflict and made it into a "both sides are evil" problem when that's far from the case
And yet Zaun in itself looks like a miniature projection of the PNZ conflict with their Chem-Barons. As far as I see it, they are fighting fire with fire. My way of solving would be to use the power of the hextech crystal to solve the problem of pollution. But the political conflict will stay as long as Piltover wants to stay PiltOVER.
The thing is, I don't mind a "both sides are evil" idea so long as we can agree the motivation for the Zaun side is entirely justified. Making them corrupt and having leaders of the would-be revolution be drunk with power would be far from unrealistic, and it would add some depth to what I otherwise a very clear "good vs bad" conflict. What I fear is Riot will just stop at ONE singular guy being evil and say "see, everyone is bad, let's keep the status quo" instead of actually doing anything with the movement. Address why it is so popular, whether Piltover has done anything good despite their morally bankrupt way of acquiring their wealth, how Zaunites would act if their objective of toppling the corrupt Piltover government succeeded. There is a lot of room for conversation and exploration in this topic and if Riot's history had taught us anything, they may just scratch the surface and not even bother to develop any of it.
Yes, very good idea they should totally take a morally grey story and characters and change it into a good vs bad scenario with my values as the good and the others as the bad.
@@nicolaszan1845 thinking the other are bad around history seems legit. Just see every communism revolution and how he ends to be a dictator. Unipersonal power is something very dangerous.
It's interesting to come back to this after Philosophy Tube's "Violence & Protest" video essay dropped. A lot of points dovetail together well here. Above all else, the show suggests explicit (often intentional) violence is unredeemable while implied (often unintentional) violence isn't. To pull from Zizek's "Violence": "He [Nikolai Lossky] simply couldn't understand who would want to destroy his way of life. What had the Losskys and their kind done? His boys and their friends, as they inherited the best of what Russia had to offer, helped fill the world with talk of literature and music and art, and they led gentle lives. What was wrong with that? While Lossky was without doubt a sincere and benevolent person, really caring for the poor and trying to civilise Russian life, such an attitude betrays a breathtaking insensitivity to the systemic violence that had to go on in order for such a comfortable life to be possible. We're talking here of the violence inherent in a system: not only direct physical violence, but also the more subtle forms of coercion that sustain relations of domination and exploitation, including the threat of violence."
I would say to your criticisms of Demacia and Shurima stories that there have been multiple historical precedents where the revolutionaries turn out to be worse dictators than the regime they overthrew. You portray Zaun as this worker region that should rise up and topple Piltover. While the portrayal of the Zaun villain does show that revolutionary does not always do things for you. Sometimes he just uses popular dissent to make a power grab.
Watched the final clip and thought: Dammit, it was going so well and guess how it ends. The system was about to do peace thing with the thing they oppressed. Jinx was out of line and ruined it. Jinx is portraited as lost and piltover was redeemable because they where bout to offer peace. Not shitting on the series, but Skyen freaking called it.
The centrist stance, the painting of slaves as vile for being impatient with their situation and the ever redeemable elites...this was more insightful than I’d expect from a show review on RUclips in 2021. Impressive. Subscribed!
I think your point about the rebellious being seen as bad and the ones that rule being seen as flawed but redeemable interesting because it seems like you are going what Riot have asked you to do: "we shall make it neutral and you can decide what you believe". I won't comment on Surima because I am not well versed with its lore, but Sylas is still portrayed as redeemable and sympathetic. Not all the time, sure, but that is the same for every person in the demacia story. Lux is an optomist that wants a better world for everyone but still benefits from her noble status and hides her magic and let's her own family hunt people just like her so she can save herself. Garen is a complicit soldier of the state even when he knows the mages that they hunt are often innocent of any crime beyond how they were born, but stays in line to protect his sister as out of fear of not being able to defend his home from other threats. Sylas is no different. He is someone that witnessed the torture and murder of hundreds of innocent people and then saw himself imprisoned for 15 years, even after being a loyal dog to the state. He fights to change the status quo knowing that no meaningful change could happen without forcing it to happen. Yet he doesn't kill the king, and is worried when he realises the message the the Kings death would send. He kills people, but only to exact change, to him it isn't revenge but the cracked eggs that must be sacrifices to save more people. The way modern league portrays it lore is less "I I scared to take strong opinions either way" and more "these characters all have detailed motivations and histories that we are trying to make as human and believable as possible". It represents a drive to move away from "this guy is bad" and "this guy is good", because everyone is grey, and only a very select few characters will ever fit into the "unredeemable bad"- the only one I can think of is Morde and even then he has layers to his villainy. It isn't just bad people bring bad for the sake of it.
There are a few more I can think of as irredeemably bad, but none of them are human. ex. Fiddlesticks, Nocturne, Volibear, The voidlings in general, and I think veigar.
@@caledvwych1366 Volibear defo isn't all bad, like as far as I am concerned we can't place labels of "good" and "evil" on creatures and beings just following their survival instincts. Like Voli is a god that sees beyond the mortality of man.
I can accept that certain things are outside the spectrum of regular human morality. But I'm also pretty sure that both Anivia and Ornn consider Voli to be at least hostile, and probably evil, so they seem to fit into the "human" morality system and thus I think that I would include voli as well. Though, I can see why you would say he is outside of it. Also, I do not understand how anything I said was political? Moral and political are two different things (at least for me, I am aware they are more connected for some people).
I watched this after seeing the show itself. I see your points, but I found that Silco was addressed in a far more nuanced way. I thought he was a master class in who to write a strong antagonist.
Now I think about it - they had to push REALLY hard to make Silco the bad guy. Everything Silco says about Piltover is correct; the only reason the audience has any reason to dislike him is because he’s an extremist. It’s just that his methods, like human experimentation and blackmailing cops, are too far. From his perspective, Zaunite independence is a goal worth paying any cost for. It’s like he was TOO good at being the justifiable villain, because they had to make him use some really terrible methods to come across as a villain. The way he’s shot in every scene he’s in makes him look sinister though, and it seems like it’s trying to draw a conclusion for you. In reality, how far is “too far” for self determination, democracy and the lives of Zaunites? Is Vander really a “good guy” because he gave up the fight for independence because the personal stakes were too high, and was his peaceful compromise worth it? Had Silco succeeded, he might have been remembered as a hero and a freedom fighter in Zaun.
The reason they consistently fuck up these stories that are so close to the point it’s painful is the same reason they retconned Zac into slime Batman. The logical, inescapable conclusion of the stories they themselves are telling are things they fundamentally disagree with. Conservative storytellers will always fail because, if they do they’re job correctly, they will consistently disprove their own perspective. So the obfuscate at the last second when they realize that their heroes, the Monarchs, the Oligarchs, the Slave owners, were actually the bad guys the whole time. They get so close and instead of realizing their own stance is bunk they say “oopsie, can’t have that, it must the the traumatized slave that’s REALLY at fault.” But it falls apart under the barest scrutiny.
Season 1 spoilers below ... There is one element of the show that gives me hope for a more nuanced political story in season 2: Ekko and the Firelights. They seem like a pretty classically punk anarchist group, living outside the system and taking the fight to both the enforcers and the chembarons, exploiters from the upper city and the lower. And while Silco and his ilk are a bunch of violent mobsters and the enforcers look like actual stormtroopers, the Firelights come out of the season looking like ... the good guys, actually. Their sanctuary is an oasis of light and life amidst and darkness and pollution. What if Ekko and his group step up to fill the power vacuum left by Silco, and start to actually fight for the best interests of the people of Zaun? Will Heimerdinger stand up against the corrupt system he built? This one line from Ekko in episode 9 gives me hope that I'm not just making all this up: "It's not enough to give people what they need to survive. You have to give them what they need to LIVE." Bread and roses, anyone?
Yes I agree. The movement has a beautiful solarpunk aesthetic as well which was a great visual balance against the polished finery of Piltover and the grimy industries of Zaun. I feel like they were unequivocally portrayed in a positive light too unlike the Chembarons and The Councillors. Honestly surprised at how nuanced the politics actually got, I was expecting something much more black and white. Not that it's perfect, but it was much better than most.
Really nice video. Honestly a lot of mainstream media have really bland takes on social conflict or power struggles or all that, there's some popular anime and games with the same problems.
This video feels like a thesis statement for Skyen's entire channel, or at least the parts that aren't tied to character design. 9:05: In a literal sense, showing the conflict and letting the audience come to their conclusions is a good thing. In practice, though, the author should probably be leading the audience to one particular set of conclusions. You shouldn't outright say the xenophobic fascist empire is evil, but you probably shouldn't give the impression that their view of the world is equally valid to those egalitarian heroic rebels. For the record, I think Riot (and other "apolitical" game publishers) _does_ lead the audience to certain sets of conclusions-they just don't want to admit it.
In a way I find it sad that art has to be "justified" because life is not either. Show me a (realistic) dystopia were bad things happen and nobody gets to save them because sometimes worlds go down like that. But (sadly) art will always be influently to ones perspective, one way or another so not many dare to create it.
@@TheThomas2730 Um, most pre-Hunger-Games dystopian novels? And a lot of post-YA-dystopia-crash ones, too. I'm not sure what your point is, anyways; neither I nor Skyen are complaining about the existence of bad things, just the framing. The existence of enslaving emperors and genocidal kings isn't the problem; framing them as flawed but ultimately noble, and their opposition as power-hungry villains who're doing more harm than good, is.
this show was amazing the politics was discussed perfectly, every character made the decision that was right for them and their cause but the conflict rose when others did the exact same thing, no character was stupid and they all tried to do good arcane is an amazing show
I think they sidestepped our concerns in a way I didn't expect with the last episodes. Obviously there was the Revolution vs. Opression that you discussed, but I never got the message that the revolutionaries were bad or misguided. At the very least it wasn't the same ham-fisted look this topic that they did in the comics.
They basically just made Silco a failed revolutionary and had Ekko, Jinx, and Jayce shown as actual movers and shakers... But then undermined that by not giving Ekko nearly enough screen time. Still, it's far better than the "rich old white guy who owns multiple factories run on child labor and sics the cops on his enemies is the face of the revolution" narrative some people apparently wanted.
Idk if I haven't watched enough of your videos, but I wasn't expecting this level of leftism from you. It is a breath of fresh air, I am grateful for your nuanced, yet not centrist perspective, and overall, rather objective analysis.
19:39 yeah... you predicted pretty much the whole theme of the show there. I came to this video after finishing Arcane, dissappointed with the weird centralist themes present throughout the conflicts of the show. I really want to know how they're gonna go about wrapping up the plot if they continue with their tendency towards the preservation of the status quo in piltover and zaun.
Welp, this video aged pretty well I think... since the show ends s1 with that "if only they had been more patient/less radical" scenario you point out, in the most literal way. The politics of the show are really really green and definitely use centrist tropes but in the end, I would say that it's not completely painting the situation as "both sides are good and bad". Worst sin Arcane committed was not seeing more of the firelights and Ekko tho. I feel like they were supposed to be the example of ""good"" rebellion against an oppressive system, but we never see them fight directly against the status quo. Even though we're told they're a problem for _both_ Silco and Piltover, what we actually see doesn't support that narrative (Ekko even admits most of their casualties are because of Silco)
How are you getting that? If Jinx had been just a little bit less crazy, Silco would have hit a home run and scored a total victory. We have Jayce and Mel realising that Piltover has been the bad guys all along. By the end, even Heimerdinger seems to get that he is personally culpable for things having gotten this badly. The Firelights were not a rebellion. They were mostly just an anti-Silco gang, and not overly concerned with Piltover or politics at all. And for Ekko, this was largely personal.
@@Carabas72 ehh I'll try to explain how I interpreted things:: By the end I think it's not so much that Mel and Jayce realize Piltover is the bad side or that Zaunites deserve better, more than that, they see that they'll be personally affected by the conflict between the two sides, so they decide to act in favor of stopping it. Stopping direct conflict, giving into Silco's demands, will not actually be that much better for the people living in the Undercity. Independence is good, but they're still giving Zaun to a criminal and washing their hands off. And, even if Jinx hadn't been completely crazy by the end there, Silco was probably gonna attack still because he wasn't willing to give her up. Then it wouldn't have been a victory, because like Jayce said, a war between the two would be way worse for Zaunites (they already live like shit, they don't need to add active warzone to it lol) This is where I get the feeling that Ekko and the firelights were supposed to be the "third option". Ekko asks Caitlyn to be the one who gives them the gemstone because he sees that's a bargaining chip he can maybe use to get enforcers out of the Undercity or make Piltover take down Silco for good, who knows what he wanted to ask for specifically. He might not be giving monologues about a "Nation of Zaun" and of course has strong personal motivations, but I think a more independent Undercity is still one of his "collective" goals, though obviously lower on the list than "taking Silco down" since the guy is literally controlling the people with drugs. I think we are meant to compare and contrast the firelights' ideology of not just surviving but _living_ with Piltover's "out of sight, out of mind" approach and Silco's "power over all" rule. This is where giving them such little development was a problem imo. Because by having Ekko's role as a potential leader of the Undercity not explored fully, the show's left with a very bland stance on the topic of what's the best solution in this situation: Vander, who defended the status quo where they're still constantly oppressed, is the good guy and Silco, a violent criminal who advocates for liberation, is the bad guy. So imo there is a fair bit of "both sides" in the show, Zaun deserves liberation - but the place is run by criminals; Piltover is oppressive, but they just need the "right" people in power to change things. In the end, this is just how I saw things tho, and Arcane is more character driven than anything else, so it not having a perfect political message isn't that bad.
@@merlumiliI agree with what you said but I think we will get the firelights having more of a direct impact in season 2 given Ekko interacts with Heimerdinger, the most influential yet ignorant character who’s sort of a representation of Piltover. So given those two working together Ekko might be able to achieve something. Also the season did end with Jinx (who sort of represents Zaun) directly attacking Piltover, and again season 2 will probably go more into the effects of that
Yuuup, you put into words what I've been feeling since we got the first longer trailer. Piltover and Zaun are my favorite region because of their politics, but I fear that Arcane will try to present the conflict as radicals bashing heads, just to show us that the status quo is good actually. Hope I'm wrong, but Riot's record on such themes makes me anticipate some bullshit.
I kind of understand what you mean with the fact that many characters that started uprisings are evil and powerhungry, but nevertheless I think of them pretty similarly as you and never felt forced to sympathise with Jarvan IV for example. Riot also tells the stories of Noxus where a revolution was achieved without violence on the scale of Demacia or Shurima and the new Noxus is consistantly portrayed as better than the old one. I think characters are well written and not as black and white as they used to be in the older days when Demacia was good and Noxus was evil and everything else was Barbaric.
I love what you said about preference of status quo as that's exactly what Cait says in Vi's story (me paraphrasing) it's better those people died for nothing and we keep the status quo than to have more die for any sort of change.
Came here because I was starved of Arcane content, and instead got a really interesting lesson about the politics of Runeterra, and seemingly the kind of politics Riot Games is advocating. Would love to hear more breakdowns of this nature, quite honestly. Even on a meta-level of what Riot is doing.
You see Mr Skyen, a piece of media is not political when it discusses real life political topics. A piece of media is political when there is gay people in it. Now if you will excuse me i am gonna go play Bioshock and Fallout: New vegas, my favorite Politic-free videogames.
When Jayce commented about Piltover being a bastion of equality and enlightenment, entirely unironically... Oof. That was some serious privilege.
It's not surprising that he would feel that way growing up there. He sees the wealth and prosperity that he and his companions experience and is proud of the accomplishments of his city.
SPOILER (JAYCE/VIKTOR BIO)
And you can already see the conflict with Viktor incoming, being a disabled and a zaunite. Jayce is entitled with vague buzzword ("progress", "liberty") while Viktor is far more compound when he speaks about human progress.
Even though Jayce clearly wasnt raised upper class, he was still born in piltover and had a lot of advantages that saunite kids didn't have
@@naholiel I want Viktor/Jinx/Singed vs Jayce/Vi/Caitlyn now
@@randomthoughts0829 his family is a minor house who owns a factory. Lol the guy is literally a trust fund kid
I think Piltover and Zaun is the most politically interesting area of Runeterra, it has so much potential and with the story of Arcane focusing on two sisters just surviving I’m really excited to see what they do.
Noxus also has a lot of political intrigue as well, I've always wondered how a person survives being a politician in a city full of assassins and... leblanc
@@someonelikeable616 Basically all those who survive are part of lb's plan at some extend. Some are even back ups plan just in case her first choice messes up.
@Pedro Benitez-Racero And... Well, Demacia is not that interesting tbh. They are pretty much usual monarchy setting, with a basic conflict explored in many different games (yeah, the mage revolution and discrimination is a topic in half fantasy settings). It is not bad, but... Vanilla, as almost everything in Demacia.
@@frostfrost8907 to me all of there regions are amazing
Damacia has a Civil war, there king is dead, there prince had gone missing before, mages are a used and persecuted (except noble families they live with ease), 3 demon powerful demons are destroying each part of the county.
Honestly I dont think damacia is that boring and vanilla. But it your points
@@frostfrost8907 i think it can be interesting if they make demacia ft noxus
Politics? In *my* show about poor people getting opressed? No way!
This got me to laugh out loud, thanks :D
It's more likely than you think!
the main characters are females... it was political from the start /s
@@Unlyricallyrics
Women being protagonists is not automatically political. Eg Alien and Alien II.
@@realdaggerman105 nah if the protagonist isn't a straight man it's political
Imo Caitlyns dynamic with Vi&Jinx and how it's framed will be integral to the framing of politics in Arcane. She is the sympathetic topsider being taken on a trip through Zaun by two very radical people, her perspective in the end will be telling on what Arcane is trying to show
I mean, considering we know this leads to her and Vi becoming a cop, I think we all know where this is leading.
@@travelkingable Caitlyn was already a cop. It doesn't lead to her becoming one. If anything, the end result seems to be her focused on protecting civilians, not following orders.
@@Silenteric then it's the "There can be good cops in a broken system" scenario, which is honestly worse than her being uncritically a tool of the state.
@@travelkingable Why do you consider it worse?
@@travelkingable I mean there indeed are good people inside broken systems, what would be bad is if you justified keeping a bad system because of those good people which I think is what you are implying
Before this video: Jinx is crazy for blowing up parts of Piltover
After watching this video: You have to be crazy for not trying to blow up Piltover. Get Jinxed!
I'm not a league player, but I loved Arcane. I can't stop reading and watching lore now lol.
I really relate to Jinx and how she developed, and I think not having any knowledge on her character beforehand helped me sympathize with her. I cried so much
I knew nothing, absolutely nothing about LoL, watched Arcane because it looked pretty.
I ended very mad with Vi's betrayal. I can't accept that she went to the other side to by a cop, and she going to the Council to demand that they send troops to wreck the city instead of explaining who exactly was causing problems to prevent exactly what she was asking made no sense.
Ok but it was a bad idea, not figthing back but, starting with the top there's still a giant f*ck off army of enforcers and definitely enough layers of leadship to command said army.
She blew up the current leadership but there will be a lot of people willing to take their place.
@@an8strengthkobold360 yeah but it's based lol. Like the SR terrorists killing tsarists before the bolshevik revolution, gotta show that someone's fighting back
she committed multiple homicides and prevented the peaceful Independence of zaun, what show were you watching?
"this video is not sponsored by riot"
I'm eleven minutes in, and I can see why they probably wouldn't wanna sponsor it haha
I truly worry for the people employed by RIOT. If the politics writers are *forced to put into their games by the execs* follow the model of "a bad ruler is better than a disobedient citizen" then it's safe to assume that RIOT itself is run on the model of "a bad boss is better than a disobedient employee" and that's a terrifying thought.
:(
Thats a leap in logic right there
Yikes
@@rdtiel Might be a leap in logic on its own, but Riot legitimately does have issues with crunch and overworking of employees. There was a walkout in 2019 and demands for unionization
@@rdtiel it is a leap of logic, that lands sadly accurately from reports about the company.
It was very funny hearing Caitlyn sarcastically say to Vi "I suppose topsiders are responsible for all your problems?" Because Piltover is literally responsible for everything going on in The Lanes. The only thing anyone in Piltover does for The Lanes that isn't entirely negative is maintaining a relationship with the effective leader to keep the peace. But there's no benefit for The Lanes other than not getting violently attacked again. And it's not any figures of particular power that maintain this parasitic, yet empathetic deal; It's an Enforcer.
None of the council members make efforts to properly negotiate better conditions for the underground, they merely want a pacified populace to let them continue running their city into the ground with pollution and total disregard for safety/health. Vander has a good heart, but he's not a hero for constantly telling his people to avoid fighting for a better future. In fact we see from Jayce's story a positive take on fighting the system to improve the future, but as his rebellion was bloodless it was shown as good and heroic. Zaun does not have that luxury, and their inevitable conflict is displayed as not entirely justifiable as though there's a peaceful solution to getting Piltover's boot off their collective throats.
I am sure it'll end with that centrist message, so my main concern is how Vi's character can be reconciled when she's seen firsthand the corruption of Piltover and all the terrible effects on The Lanes it's had. Piltover doesn't need her near as much as Zaun does, so why would she go and stay? I suppose this also captures my interest as I am increasingly curious what direction Vi takes to justify her future choices; Will she just not care? Will she gain a more self-centered perspective? Can she really forget everyone down there for the city responsible for the horrors she's seen? Many questions yet to be answered, and will hopefully be answered in the final act.
I know in that moment I really wanted Vie to just go off on how yeah literally all of her problems lead back to the exploitative upper class
The very first thing Vi does when she gets a chance to talk to the Council is request them to take out Silco with the biggest guns they have. She then accompanies a squad of Enforcers to destroy one of Silco's factories.
And she's entirely justified to feel that way. Probably wrong, but justified.
The problem with class analyses (like most analytical frameworks) is that they can inadvertently smooth over the actual conflicts and concerns in an attempt to force everything into the desired framework. Vi is not "centrist" because she wants to punch out Silco. There is no reason Vi as a character should feel even an ounce of solidarity with a rich crime lord who destroyed her family, flooded the undercity with drugs, and used Piltover's police to crush his political opponents.
Class analyses of Arcane are also frustrating because they NEVER discuss Ekko and the Firelights. All this talk about violence as a force for change and somehow the people committing guerrilla attacks against the man in broad daylight never get a mention.
@@latrodectusmactans7592 I think the reason Ekko and the Firelights don't get mentioned much, specifically in the context of class analysis between Piltover and Zaun, is because they represent an alternative for how a better Zaun could work, but not an alternative to the broader conflict. If Ekko had the manpower and means, I'm 90% certain they would be going after Piltover and the Enforcers just as much as Silco. So, they get folded into the broader class of the Undercity, because that's where their interests are.
I also think what's interesting about Vander is he experienced what happens when you try and fight, actually fight for the good of the people.
People die, people get hurt on both ends, and then next thing you know the entire underground safety is you're responsibility, all the while you look after two orphaned girls - who would have still had their parents if you kept you're head down.
That's an experience I can't see anyone wanting to see repeated, and honestly I understand his position
Sylas is a forever fave of mine and I am continually mad with his portrayal as a villain for trying to overthrow a system that has systemically abused and murdered people for being born different.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 The problem is when pretty much every revolutionary or person looking for radical change that you depict are portrayed as evil. Xerath, Sylas and now this character from Aracne. At this point it stops being “just showing that leaders of revolutions can be bad” to becoming an active statement that revolutions in general are bad.
As Skyen explains the problem is also that all these characters are shown as inherently less sympathetic than the leaders of the oppressive systems they seek to overthrow. No matter how bad a person they are it is pretty fucking rich to claim that: a revolting slave is as bad as his master or a member of an actively genocideded people and his genocider are comparably bad. And that is like I said not even what is being shown, instead the oppressors are shown as BETTER than the oppressed, because they revolted and tried to break free from the system.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 What Einder below said is relevant to my view point as well, I.e. Riot didn’t need to portray him like that, it was entirely possible to paint Sylas in a way that he wasn’t a villain and it was their choice as the ones building the narrative to write it in a way that wags a finger at Sylas and his beliefs, but also, you say he’s a thug, but i don’t recall him actually doing anything in his story to support such a notion. I may be forgetting something, so please feel free to correct me, but what exactly has he done that the Demacian military and nobility haven’t done to people with magic in their attempts to wipe it out and maintain control of their city-state?
I can see an argument for the ‘model rebel’ mandating someone be better than their oppressors, but that isn’t how the world really works, and I don’t think it’s fair to ask people who have been persecuted to be kind to the people who have destroyed their lives and livelihoods just because it would be taking the moral high ground. And that’s kind of the issue here, because Sylas is not a perfect moral bastion he’s painted as a villain and “just as bad” when the two injustices are not at all equal. Tl:dr; I acknowledge the narrative has decided Sylas is a villain and I still love him, I just don’t necessarily agree with the idea that he is more evil or even on an equal staging of morality as a government that has persecuted, imprisoned and executed people who have magic just because they wanted to maintain their status and control.
@@jackrahbit8343 that one time he would only let a dude be free if he killed another dude. like the character you idolize isnt sylas, you like the idea of what you wanted him to be. you have made your own separate character from the actual Sylas and made that your forever fav and ignore any current thing Sylas has done that makes him not the bright eyed freedom fighter you wish he was.
@@gigimelenohelophobia471 chill chill mate, I literally asked for the correction if I had forgotten something; that’s not me ignoring things about the character, that’s me needing to have brain space for more than League Lore. You’re making a lot of assumptions that just aren’t true because I have a different view and dislike some of the characterization of a character that I really like. I’m fine with Sylas being a villain, he’s still a fave villain or not, I just think it’s worth examining Riot’s constant insistence on making sure they shrug and go “but both sides!” which is what the entire vid is about P:
@@jackrahbit8343 The thing is, that they want people to like said regions. If they go with the narrative with the 'one side' statement, then they can't have their cake and eat it too. You have to recognize that they are going to continue making characters for these regions and likely don't want them immediately hated for being on the 'wrong side'. It's also why Noxus was developed into being less objectively evil into its current iteration. Whether or not any of this is the right call, is not for me to say. I am simply stating that they sort of have to do it this way if they're going to have this plot thread where you can play characters on both sides of the conflict.
As a person whose only experience with any runeterra lore and other riot content is your content, I really appreciate this.
Try his friend, Necrit’s channel. His channel probably has the most comprehensive lore explanations of anywhere.
As a latinamerican, me, and my friends, we always though that Zaun was a representation of our continent. A common day for us involves poverty, fear of the police, being robbed, being hungry. The norm for us is violence and corruption and loose of hope. We can only dream for the chance to get out of here. Even countries that seem to be in a good spot, are not, those are usually silent hells.
You can imagine our surprise when Ixtal came out, and our not so much of a surprise to see it being forgoten, like our continent is ussaly be by riot. We were excited to finally see a latin representation, and we had a Hella Thicc mean girl. yeah...
About Zaun, i crave for the exploration of Piltover's society and i trully want to see a story of the low class rising. The idea of the academy giving oportunities to "everyone" for a chance of growth is trully inspiring and i would like to see actual poor characters getting a better life and using it to help others In The Real Way. Tecnology is fine, but a kid starving won't be helped by it easily.
Ekko is trully my hero, is someone i wanted to be as a child, smart and skilled and someone who can protect the ones around him.
I remember having 11y.o. (i'm the older of six sibblings) and thinking that my parents won't be home because they are working and i have to take care of the house, and some days we had enough rize to pass the night. I remember going with my father every weekind since i was 5 to seel the cartoon and the plastincs we gathered and celebrate with coockies and soda, until the inflation made the money worth less so we had so buy only the necessary. I remember feeling hungry because i gave my food to my siblings.
I trully hope Riot tells the story in the way it should be. Systemic violence is what creates all we live everyday in my continent. Systemic violence should not be treated respectfully.
Thank you for this comment.
I wish you all the best, much love from israel
Riot's treatment of Ixtal is a shame, it's such a wonderful region that is barely explored.
I also think you're probably not too far off, after all, Riot is an US company and their history with Latin America definitely would be at least indirectly influencing an American reading of capitalist exploitation. Also, considering Ixtal, Zauns neighbour nation, is based on Latin America and Piltover uses Deco Art aesthetics as they are associated with 1920's USA, the connection between the two continents kinda resembles the isthmus between North- and South America.
Sometimes the internet really makes me appreciate how fucking lucky I am.
I'm also a latin american, but I'm in Chile and I live as a middle class citizen. While there were months where I could only eat rice and chicken because my dad was jobless and my mom didn't make enough, we actually made it through and I hope you guys do the same.
You'll get out of there, I promise. I'd propose to maybe consider going to study abroad with a full scholarship, but that's not an option for a lot of people...
"Oh hey they made a Latín American Reg- a aaand its a Maya parody thats only mentioned once and forgotten, cool
much love from Palestine
Me, being dragged by two nurses through a hallway back to my room: SYLAS WAS RIGHT! BURN DEMACIA!
The nurses, paid by Riot: it's nap time, night night both sides are right~
"Having conceived Babel, yet unable to build it themselves, they had thousands to build it for them. But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of those who planned. And the minds that planned the Tower of Babel cared nothing for the workers who built it. The hymns of praise of the few became the curses of the many."
Metropolis continues to stay relevant nearly 100 years after. I will be so disappointed if they don't pay at least some homage to the Ur-example of Cyberpunk.
wait what is that quote from?
@@nullskull6860 Metropolis, a film from 1930 (iirc). it is about a society divided in two (the workers and the rich), in which a wealthy guy falls in love with one of the workers.
a lot of it was lost because of shitty preservation and wwii, but there is a mostly complete version that came out in 2010 or so.
@@nullskull6860 It's from the 1927 film Metropolis.
Skyen: *Warns us that he is being payed to talk Arcane and has motivation to be positive*
Also Skyen: *Produces an eloquent and blistering spicy piece, dismantling Riot's story telling structure and presenting that what riot tells us to think isn't the only, let alone best, perspective to take.*
Yeah but this is not a sponsored video anyway.
@@Oscar97o most game devs don't *explicitly* tell anyone what to think. However, like skyen says, every story is presented through a certain lens and with a certain mental/philosophical/political/whatever framework. Humans are inherently imperfect and biased, so how can we make things that are 100% completely unbiased? They're not telling us explicitly to think anything, but the choices they make in their stories tell us something anyway, whether we like it or not.
@@danha3107 however, as a viewer it is pedantic and loses the point of the entertainment/art if you don't at first view it through the lens given, *then* push past it.
@@kitnal4143 yes ofc. I should’ve been more clesr about that. I’m just saying that I think it’s important to recognize that because the idea that “they’re not telling you to think anything, they just make stuff” is just wrong
@@danha3107 yeah, I guess I see it as a more: " they make stuff that is insight into how *they think* and follows the creators viewpoints" rather rather "they are trying to make you think a certain way". I could be wrong, but I don't think art that tells people what to think works very well.
"Remember to act with solidarity towards those who are worse off than yourself" Best signoff I've heard in a long time, thanks for keeping it real. You got me really interested in the show, I'll be watching it!
The funny thing about "don't judge" or "don't choose a side" is that the person who tells it always chooses the side. Still, there is someone good and someone bad. And only in recent years has there been a mania to please everyone at once. Which made some characters more complex and better revealed motivation. On the other hand, it removed from the focus of the characters whose motivation is really bad things: greed, malice, corruption, insidiousness. Which in general makes the stories too vanilla-sweet. Like a cartoon about a pony. But bad people exist.
"I have no poli-sci degree"
He says as he proceeds to dismantle some questionable story telling perfectly and eloquently.
This is why he is my favorite League RUclipsr and the only one tbh. And I dont even play any Riot Games games anymore.
Awesome video TB keep the high quality commentary coming.
Same. :3
I do have a poli-sci degree, and he's a just a bibliography away from a published academic papers
@@markmittelbach7975 yeah, his observations doesn't require a degree.
It's straightforward and concise if you know the story he's going for (that's a compliment).
@@markmittelbach7975 If you really think that, I'm either worried about the quality of your degree, or you have a particularly negative view of academic papers in general (which I would understand)
I have never played league but can i watch the show ?? Will i understand it ?
I just realised that Zed similarly is portrayed as evil for trying to have the Kinkou take a more active role in defending ionic, also falling into this pattern.
Yep.
I hope they don't portray Viktor like this by the end of Arcane but, well.. we'll see.
I'd argue he's not so much bad because of his stance on defending Ionia as he is because of the methods he uses and pushes other people into, that being shadow magic. Shadow magic is demonstrably harmful to the user when employed in excess.
Didn't Zed also try to drain the life energy of Ionia to power something in the Xayah/Rakan trailer though? Idk, I might be remembering this completely wrong. (also Xayah winning that fight is funny when you consider what would happen in game)
Is Zed portrayed as evil though? I get the impression that he's presented as flawed, but has a point, and that Shen is the one who sticks to the old ways too strictly. Even Akali, Shen's own student recognises that the Kinkou Order is too passive. Hell, even KARMA, the Spirit of Ionia, recognises that violent action is needed.
Actually Zed is improving.
Originally he was stereotypical, but his speeches made sense... until they introduced Jhin, where they brought reason to why he did those things.
Seeing how well they humanized Victor when t hey could just make a cliche story on him, I really, really think they'll explore the shit out of Zed.
The two sides ended up being presented not as two sides piltover and Zaun but much more about the two (or more) sides of the various character stories. Jinx and Vic, Jayce and Victor, Silco and Vander. While there is some happy memories associated with the peace Vander sought with Officer Grayson, it is still represented as tenuous and, in some ways, one made in fear. Vander is afraid and Silco is violent, but we see that it was Vander who betrayed the cause and Silco who took it down a darker road. The conflict between Vander and Vi is also hinged on this idea, peace in misery versus violence towards progress. I'll be interested to see how it all progresses
I wanna know your thoughts now.
I think that Piltover is portrayed as scum throughout the series. The only redeeming people are the young and innocent. I feel like Jayce is a redeemable idiot, but still doesn’t get the inequality between him and Viktor.
And Zaun is portrayed as an animal pushed to its limits. Violent and scary, but you can’t blame them.
My main complaint about the show on this front is the treatment of hummerdinger.
At the start of the show he's clearly the most respected and influential member of the council of Piltover, and given his age and inhuman life span he's probably been such for decades if not more. He is /personally/ responsible for the state of affairs in the city and undercity. His policies, his failure to notice, really failure to care, was necessary for things to get so bad in the first place.
The show's implied message is 'how sad, if only he'd known, if only someone from the undercity had reached out to him sooner, he could have done something years ago', but he was in charge, the moral imperative should have been on him to see, not on those suffering under his policies to penetrate the gilded bubble of power and privilege that he helped build around himself and his fellow elite.
I just wish there had been some recognition of that culpability in the text. A 'what have I built' moment. But it never comes. The narrative frames furry yoda as blameless and above reproach.
I don’t know, I don’t think the show portrayed him as really all that innocent. His interactions with Viktor are often unintentionally cruel as he kinda ignores Viktor’s suffering and doesn’t do anything to help him cure his illness. As well, we can put together that the same negligence he showed toward Vik and Jayce also led to Singed being able to be let loose in Zaun. Overall I’d say his inaction is directly shown to cause massive problems for the people of the undercity.
He does also have a ‘what have I done?’ moment when he explores Zaun on his own after he got kicked off the council. his redemption arc begins to start because he chose to acknowledge the problems in the undercity on his own, not because a zaunite reached out to him.
Just watched the first arc and with how horrifying Silco is I really hope we get some kind of Piltover equivalent, even if its in a roundabout way like comparing the system itself to Silco. Whether Piltover rulers know about him or not he is their responsibility and they allowed Zaun to get to that point in the first place. No matter how horrifying or power hungry Silco is he is a product of Zaun. This will not end when Silco is defeated. WIth the opening shot of arcane literally being a cop killing civilians I really don't have an idea of how Vi becomes a police officer without serious overhaul to the police force, Caitlyn is nice and Vi's views can change to understand the police better, but damn i really hope they don't just show her more Zaunite atrocities and have her go "ah i guess there ARE worse things than Enforcers better join the Enforcers" as if a person who had seen their own parents murdered in cold blood could ever rationalize that as less of a threat. Unless the point is how Vi is utterly broken and beaten to the point she'll do anything to have a place even if it's join the police, but i highly doubt thats gonna be the case? Also how will Caitlyn react to being told of the atrocities the Enforcers have commited. Will she fire people? Will she vow to help rebuild a broken police force even if it rejects her? Will she become vigilante Batman and serve and protect all of Piltover and Zaun saying fuck the piltover rule i have gadgets? I highly doubt that last one would happen but it would be cool and be able to have Cait's sense of duty conflict with her upbringing.
There are implications from Vi's lore that she was brainwashed and doesn't remember her childhood. Of course we'll see how the show handles this strange transition.
I mean the police are shown as brutal and corrupt beating people around and the leaders luitenent sides with silco for money one of the people running the administration is insinuated to be an idiot easily pressured and convinced by honeyed words and impressed by children's toys. Jayce is effectively othered by Caitlyn's family not fully because they think he's dangerous but because he's of a much lower house and removed from the academy.
Mel, actually.
Don't worry we have Camille to worry about
Your content is immaculate.
I think the concept of a character like Sylas being "flawed" could lead to an interesting story, but not when he is portraid as a villain for not only questioning the system, but to stand up, and stand against said system. Also it's very interesting that the name of the company is y'know...Riot, and yet if the character does so much as point a finger at the flaws of the system they are treated as a "bad guy".
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 Yes, that's true, most revolutionaries have done and still are doing some terrible things and it's completely valid to cast a light on that to not idolize bad people for their only redeeming action, but thing is that both sides act like they're in the right and they have no flaws, that's just silly, you can ask someone that has lived through revolutions and government oppression and you see how jaded about everything they are, they have seen, both sides, time and time again making the same mistakes as the previous ones, the point I'm trying to make is that, in your comment I see that you feel like a revolution, a violent, armed revolution is never the right thing to do but you have to understand, when the people have felt like their lives don't belong to them, like you don't get to decide how to live your own life, generation after generation of oppressed, torn apart from the absolute despair of seeing a loved one lose their life because they dare to speak badly of the government, do you really think a government like that should just stay as it is cuz revolution violent bad?
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 I agree with both of you.Thank you for pointing out the possibility of passing people as "heroic !" instead of flawed people who often are just as bad as others. I agree about Sylas, i really like him as himself a flawed character, but the framing is what I don't like, it instead frames him as the villain, and ignores the flaws of the system, it shows him as just a "bad guy" going against the "totally not flawed and oppressive system". It's pretty hard in general to not make it feel like the story is just excusing terrible people, which is how the Sylas and Xerath framing feel like to me.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 Actually I totally agree with your point there, I actually hate the idea that a singular person is "the hero" of the "glorious revolution" I have seen that, time and time again just leads to fanaticism.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 That doesn't mean you write revelationaires as one dimensional bad guys, that's just as bad as white washing revelationaires because they're no naunce. Yes, revelutions often end up becoming as bad as the oppressors but there are good arguments for violent action and not all people who support violence are just madmen indulging in violence or simply fighting for more power. The solution is to simply have a villain that simply wants a revelution for the sake of reveage thus showing have violent protest can lead to people becoming just as bad as the status quo and another character that use violence but has self-restraint and simply wants change but still pointing out the issues that come with violent revelution.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 There's not even one person he uses violence and has self restraint, Sylas is the only character representing violent protest and that's the problem. I'll give Riot credit for showing both sides however one side is being more humanized than the other.
the way riot portrays class oppression, or just oppression in general makes it very painfully clear who is in the writers room lol.
True lol revolutions and social movements are literally one of the reasons I’m allowed to exist as a poc in the US
Man, now after watching the show it's crazy how well Heimerdinger encapsulates your last point. He is a politician and founding father of the city and is depicted as the ultimate "moral good" of the story despite the fact that he perpetuates a system that exploits, demeans, and kills the people of the undercity. He sees magic as terrifying and evil and tells Jayce that magic has caused great harm in the past but never expands upon what happened; keeping that information to himself and expecting Jayce to just accept what he says is true.
If you haven't watched past episode 3 stop reading but his conversation with Victor was pretty chilling when you think about it. Here is Victor, dying and about to have a breakthrough on research that could save his life, and Heimerdinger basically says my condolences but you have to stop. What is Heimer so scared of? That magic may get in the "wrong hands" and cause death and destruction. If access to power with the potential to do both great good and great hard would lead to death and destruction if it got in the hands of the lower class what does that say about your society? Heimer wants to maintain the status quo and Victor is expected to martyr himself for it.
⚠️Spoiler warning ⚠️ : To add to that when he’s kicked off the council and he goes to the under-city and sees how fucked it is I feel like they should have shown more of him seeing what he has allowed to rot and fester and understanding that he has been a horrible leader.
You're pretty spot on with how the story is playing out.
We learn right off the bat that at some point the people of Zaun attempted to overthrow Piltover in a rebellion that catastrophically failed, leaving Vander scarred for life and unwilling to take further action against them lest he have further blood on "his hands". His attitude of increasingly suicidal pacifism, even when they repeatedly and directly threaten his children and surprise raid his home/business, is "good" because he's "avoiding pointless bloodshed", while Silco attempting to reunite Piltover and Zaum as one nation by force is "evil" because he's an "evil and ambitious opportunist crime boss who doesn't care if people get hurt".
Note that at no point when someone tries to get Vander to actively resist or fight Piltover does he advocate peaceful reform or that violence is wrong. His only rebuttal boils down to "we can't win". **At no point does Vander ever state that Piltover doesn't deserve to be overthrown**, it's that he no longer believes it's *possible* and is now content to placate his oppressors in the hopes they won't oppress him further.
It's pretty clear the direction the story is going to go. The people of Zaum will eventually be "duped" into rallying around Silco's super drug-fuelled rebellion (totally ignoring the fact that Zaum has every right to want Piltover overthrown for being a corrupt oligarchy that gets off on oppressing them and literally drowning them in their trash and pollution), while the Piltover council will be "manipulated" by Mel into taking a "hard stance" and being needlessly cruel to Zaun to pour fuel on the fire (ignoring the fact that the Council is morally bankrupt and totally okay with screwing over Zaum on a good day, if not outright gunning them down en masse if they its people ever forget "their place"). Eventually Silco will get killed and Mel will be arrested, the tension will suddenly deescalate as if these two goons had mind-controlled everyone into following them rather than their existence being the symptom of the real problem, and we'll end on the non-ending of "now that Jayce and Caitlyn are in high-ranking positions in Piltover and Vy is a Warden policing Zaum's streets, we can peacefully reform the system from within and end the class divide *the right way*".
someone @ me after the 20th so I can come back and see how much of this was on point
There is not a single word saying silco is erong and its bad. At least I dont think of it like that. And I think thats enough, he is not bad, he thinks differently than vander.
@@rammycanales3784 he is bad but that's because he is an abusive person that's just evil and is only after money and power himself. Yes he wants piltover overthrown but not for the right reasons. He wants it overthrown so that he can be the man in power who gets the same privileges as the council does now. Vander is not perfect either. But at least he tries to protect his people and he uses his power to keep everyone as safe as he can. If he would succeed he would install a political system that is similar to democracy more likely than Silco. Because his motivations are not driven by a hunger for power but rather for justice. Silco would just start giving privileges to Zaun people and giving disadvantages to Piltover People only resulting in a flipped over situation between Piltover and Zaun but basically the same as before.
This... was really not the read I got on it.
Vander's position isn't shown as "good." He's chosen inaction, and it's *very clearly* not actually working. Everyone around him - his friends, his family, his peers, and his competitors alike all express their frustration with his passivity and point out - sometimes to Vander himself - that he's not actually helping anyone. However, it is presented as a *sympathetic* position; He lost however many friends and comrades in that first rebellion, undoubtedly absorbed a lot of trauma personally, and is caring for the orphans of those people he lost. His inaction is wrong, but it's understandable why he is where he is. he's lost so much and is terrified of losing what little he still has. He fought, he lost, and he gave up the fight.
Silco on the other hand is, is a really interesting inversion, and as presented in Arcane, could definitely be one of the best antivillains I've ever seen. Magneto-level. yes, he absolutely does villainous acts... but these are mostly offenses against traditional law and order, in a society where traditional law and order is obviously antagonistic towards him and his entire community simply because they exist. he clearly believes violence between Zaun and Piltover is inevitable, and he prepares accordingly for that... but he does not seek to instigate that violence. In fact the actions he takes in this regard are pretty much entirely peaceful (if coercive) - he buys off the police to keep them out of Zaun (specifically he entraps and blackmails a police officer who until that point had been filling air with genocidal ranting.) Later on he actually presents a whole-ass diplomatic option to Jace to resolve the conflict and gain independence. His political theses are not only repeated at various times by the protagonists (especially Vi) but they are also constantly proven to be correct. And not through Silco manipulating circumstances to get that result, it's just because that's how things really are.
@@Red-Magic It's time
Skyen did what no other content creator had the guts to do: he tackled the politics of piltover and zaun in one of the biggest media releases on one of the biggest and most toxic gaming communities out there. i have nothing but utmost respect for you, my man.
Also prepare for the shitstorm that is going to come from this here and on twitter on the following days
Even more toxic than CoD?
@@simonm1233 well COD is dominated by children. League gears towards more to teens and adults. And I kid you not... the toxic from kids is different from the toxic from grown up.
I dont think its about other creators having guts or not, but more so about having interest in the thing. Plenty of people dont think about this angle of inquiry because its not something they are used to keep an eye out for, even if for people who are in the know one physicaly cant unsee political messaging. Hell, writers often cant see it, even as basic as "drawing equivalence is a political statement", and they wrote these!
This was spot on and exactly why the story started to drop off towards the second half. Silco was introduced as a revolutionary willing to fight for change at any cost, and took in Jinx out of a connection through betrayal. By the second half he's just a drug pushing manipulator interested in personal power while Piltover's corruption is seen as just minor trade regulation breaches
It always bothered me that Sylas was portrayed as just a villain, instead of someone who was desperate and broken by so many years of torture and unfair treatment... and was driven to take extreme actions.
Well... tbh his "extreme actions" did cost a lot of lives in Demacia. So yeah, I can see him as a villain
@@joaoteodororeis2051 Demacia's rule of capturing, torturing and killing mages just for being who they are costed a lot of lives, too. If Sylas is a villain, then so are Jarvan III, Jarvan IV and the upper class of Demacia. Also, take into account that they've been hunting mages for centuries.
@@mafediaz1934 any of them is good. Do you think random people of demacia have to be killed just because of the leaders? NO. Usually jokers of history end badly, you need probably some violence but in the end a political structure behind.
And those extreme actions make him a villain. Just like how Demacia's government is a villain as well. Both sides are committing bad things. Yes, Sylas was basically created by this system, doesn't excuse his actions. Just like the government isn't excused either. No one wins the ethical war.
This is why i like Noxus better.. Its simple whoever has strength in any form gets the prime cuts
"The system is good! The problem is that a few bad apples created the bad situation! As soon as the good apple is in the right place evwrything will be good again!"
Uhh... Why would you consider a system good if a few people can throw a wrench into it and screw evwrything up?
A system with a clear and crucial flaw is not a good one!
Failsafes people! Mechanisms that forbid "a few bad apples" to ruin everything for everyone else!
I mean any system with good intentions can be turned rotten. There really is no perfect system.
@@StarDreamsStudios But any system that relies in a single position/person is easier to corrupt
Systems don't have to depend on "good intentions" nor "good faith". Look at the legal system, and in particular, DMCA. That system is prone to abuse because it depends in the good faith of the person making the DMCA claim has evidence that their copyright is being disrespected, and platforms have no responsability to check if said claim is true
There's also the thing that if they portray some piltovians (likely caitlyn) as the "good apple"...we alrrady know that despite this, they did nothing to change the system
Hey no I totally get that, I felt the same way about the demcia story especially. That's why when they produced or showed the new Caitlyn voice lines I was kind of mad about it. Why is she all of a sudden the voice of reason and reform within P&Z and wants to bridge the gap but wasn't that the reason behind Vi?
one of vi's skills is "assault and battery" she is not the voice of reason.
As I listen to this video, I couldn't help but think that you would be a good professor.
THIS!
The interesting topic would also be: How far would you go, in your despair to end the awful situation that you're in because of people who disregard other people's life, to end it?
Sometimes we see these tragic characters (not heroes nor villains) become the people that they; in first instance, swore vengeance upon due to "necessity" and "not having any other option other than take action". Morally, where do those people end up when they had to do things not so "good"? Is it all only a cycle? Are they better than their former oppressors?
Good and evil are relative
Realistically, I don't believe you can do any good in this world without getting your hands a little dirty
Morally questionable choices are inevitable if you want quick results
And a revolution, noble as it is, has never been without bloodshed
Of course, we can always try to calm things down and be reasonable, but that won't work for everyone
I'm not saying this is the best, or the only way, of course.
In fiction, the protagonist would normally be the one who would resist the urge to do something bad just because it would make things easier saying "Just because it's easy doesn't mean it's right" and we would all cheer for them and their good vibes mentality
But at the end of it, who knows?
Maybe the hero is right
Or maybe the ends really justify the means and they just can't bring themselves to do what it needs to be done
"Long essay you won't read in response to things you haven't said."
COMMENTS FOR THE ALGORITHM GOD.
I can kind of see where Riot is coming from with trying to make their stories less black and white, as i think it makes stories much more interesting (at least for my tastes). But I will agree that most of their execution about making these themes more "grey" in a sense has been lacking to say the least. It remains to be seen wether or not arcane will succeed in these points but i think that piltover and zaun is one of the better narratives at the moment, and I hope it won't get dragged dowm by their apparent need for "impartiality"
To be honest, Xerath's backstory is pretty dark gray compared to Azir's very light gray take.
I think its much less about making stories Grey and more like Gamers are Allergic to the P word and they have money
Also right wing ideologies are not political
@@Bobogdan258 IMO the problem with azir and xerath is that azir didn't want a civil war, so he tried to undermine the slavery with tiniest possible steps, but shown nothing to xerath, because there wasn't much to show, but he could have just told xerath something he could even get him on his side (maybe) but he could have had better results by just that alone, as emperor he could have made difference (unlike irl), and xerath was mostly right, only thing that can dethrone the monarch is his people, just the way he did it was kind of dumb, if the ruler is going to be connected to dead-man switch nuke, delete him before he gets connected, in story xerath was shown to be smart and studying magic, but didn't thought "huh precisely calibrated powerfull magic could be dangerous when destabilized" just something I don't quite understand on that story.
This video was so much better than I expected! Blown away
“Trust the process” thinking: the tragic end of Arcane is the council unilaterally voting to “save” Zaun while an impatient and violent agent fires a bazooka at them.
yep
They were voting for deal, not peace itself. Joke would be broken with Silco dead anyway
What's even worse is, they didn't even talk about stopping to exploit them. They just talked about letting them be a separate city state while they exploit them and it took them forever to get to this tiny concession under threat of outright civil war.
They tried to demonstrate why you should trust the process and instead perfectly demonstrated why the process doesn't work.
i have a degree in political science
your discussion was great skyen, will return to flesh out my thoughts after work
ok, i have some time, so I'm just gonna have a long stream of consciousness because i can't organize my thoughts on break.
first i want to discuss the "right of revolution" that you may have come across before. this political philosophy indicates that a people has the right to revolt against a tyrannical government that directly endangers their wellbeing. american revolution, french revolution, iranian revolution. oppressors don't have any right to sovereignty. sovereignty lies within the people, and unless the people all willingly agree to bestow sovereignty onto a body, then there is no "rightful" overseer.
using the american government as an example: we have traded in personal liberties and freedoms in exchange for the governing body ensuring their people very broad and general basic rights (bill of rights, constitution, amendments, you know the deal). in exchange for the government protecting these rights, we vest in them powers like creating laws, passing judgement, etc. they have a constituency to help the people - congress at a local level, the president at a national level. the concept in theory *should* work well. the issue is that we went from 13 states to 50, and the history of this country has been violent, bloody, full of horrible oppression that still loves to rear its ugly head today. the national constituency is often at odds with the local constituency. the pro being that many voices are heard, the con being that the two parties will always butt heads and progress is rarely ever made. the upper class control the direction of the country with their wallets while the working class have to figure out how to keep their liveliness. hey, what does that remind you of?
sylas was not wrong. xerath was not wrong. when ekko trash talks piltover, he isn't wrong. they exploit the working class and use agents like camille to periodically remind zaunites that they will never, EVER be anything better than that. they allow the chem barons to abuse the working class, have no sympathy to people struggling to survive in hazardous living conditions, make no attempt to improve their lifestyle.
sure, you could argue zaun is on the cusp of being an anarchist state, and anarchy = bad, but said anarchy is inflicted by piltover's governing body. they keep just enough control to ensure that the flow of goods and resources into their own hands remains steady, while letting the working class suffer and struggle to live day to day. it's pure, rampant, unchecked capitalism with no love for the common man.
@Mohamed Ramadan i didn't say wealth inequality is capitalism, i said wealty inequality is a product of unchecked capitalism.
and rampant capitalism as I phrased it is not anarcho capitalism and/or laissez faire. Yes, rampant capitalism means completely unchecked capitalism and the free market. But I meant it in terms of it being corrupt and heavily controlled. piltover has a very clear rigid structure designed to maximize profit at the expense of the physical, mental and economic well being of the working class. i don't know how you can even try to argue this isn't a rampant, corrupt capitalist society.
Laissez faire fundamentally doesn't work anymore because there will always be people who will monopolize, cut costs, and exploit to generate as much revenue for themselves as they can. They neglect to help out the people who make less than them because it does not serve their interest.
In Piltover, the upper class control the direction society moves in by controlling the circulation high value goods such as hextech crystals, (which need I remind you are *products of genocide on Skarner's entire race*) and stamping out any working class citizens who try to make better futures for themselves. Ekko's parents are working themselves to the bones trying to secure a better future for him in Piltover. That future would literally entail them being separated from their son - it's effectively them sacrificing their lives to try and make sure Ekko lives a good life.
I'd literally said that was a disorganized stream of consciousness, did you not read the first few sentences?
Arcane is going to be my first time directly interacting with LoL lore and plot, and while I already was cautious about Riot (with its MANY problems) presenting the series, I'm even more on my edge over the "both sides" comment. however. you've already talked a lot about this show, about the people's work and thoughts coming into it outside of pure "company think", about the animation *and* the politics that it's based on, and I've got some hope on having a good time without cringing about Some Choices. thanks for the vid!!
Even if you do make a "two sides" argument with Piltover and Zaun, and show both to be corrupt and have their leaders be drunk with power, that would still not make them equally bad or serve as an excuse to keep the status quo.
I hope that even if Riot does intend to show both sides as evil, or at least more complex than "good side, bad side", they do address Zaun being entirely justified in wanting Piltover gone. Exploitation is horrible and even trying to make a case for maintaining the status quo is morally bankrupt and not easy for the audience to relate to if they know anything about the history of the two cities.
I don't have high hopes, but until I see the series, I can still dream.
The Two Sides argument with these two is hilarious because you eventually run into Zaun is as bad as Piltover because *Checks notes* Piltover controls zaunite politics for money and power"
I /hope/ they come down at least a little on the side of zaun, like you describe. Until its fist season comes to a close... Ill hope
Another great video, and I say this as someone who DOES have a degree in political science. Thanks for your analyses TB, always a pleasure to listen to. TBH it's kinda motivating me to keep me writing my own stories, though of course they're never gonna become popular Netflix series lmao
hey man, who knows.
Dude, you never know
Waiting 'til one of the top 10 Netflix shows says "Written by Chroniko97" 😉...anything is possible!!!!!!! Just do what you love...
Rooting for you!
“It’s a good thing League of Legends isn’t a political game or id have some choice words with the design team”
Well then, TBSkyen.
It's funny the whole time watching arcane I was like 'ok I know who is supposed to be the bad guys but I definitely agree with them way more than the the people who are supposed to be the good guys' this is an excellent vid to break down the subtext in arcane. The final scene is a perfect example of the whole idea of the 'antagonist' being impatient
I think the problem is, and believe me I struggle with this all the time too, is that these stories are not *about* politics, they just have politics in them. At the end of the day, whether Piltover remains corrupt or not is irrelevant to the stories at large being told here. The political unrest is merely set-dressing or world-building meant to establish context for why these events might be happening, but it itself is not the main focus of the story. None of the characters are fighting a political revolution, except for of course, Silco, whose only purpose in the show is to serve as the antagonist. Even his political revolution plot is set-dressing meant to explain his motives, but his purpose is in how his revolution impacts all of the Champion/main characters and their stories. The only aspect of the government that really plays a significant role in any story is how The Council, namely Heimerdinger, impacts Jayce and Viktor's stories which have nothing really to do with equality and are more about the study of magic with regards to Hextech.
@@mustard5382 Yep! I really loved the scenes in his community.
The downright psychotic degree of insistence so much media demonstrates that all arguments be treated as if both sides are equally valid is deeply, deeply frustrating.
i rly hope that singed will be in the storyline of arcane cuz he matches the story so much! there is the possibility that the barmen guy in the trailers is warwick and if warwick is in this story, singed has a high chance of being in the series.
Singed is the late Halloween special
נודר נדרים שאם סינג'ד מגיע התוכנית הופכת לGOAT שלי תוך דקה.
@@amitaiavrahami4920 מילים כדורבנות
You can actually find his name + voice actor in the credits of episode 1&2
@@jayjaywolf8988 yea the actor can voice multiple characters but that doesnt mean warwick is 100% in the series
holy crap Skyen... a fantastic video... the politics of Runeterra is something i didn't know i wanted to study
My personal problem with Demacia is that even though they made Sylas extremally monstrous and really hard to sympathize with, as a person from Poland, I find it really hard to NOT sympathize with him. While I don't remember personally the days when our people faced genocide and enslavement ourselves I remember when my late grandfather told me stories about how he survived under the occupant and then under the communist regime. Those stories were a lot of times horrifying in how both the nazis and communists treated normal, everyday people and my grandfather didn't even live in the big city where oppression was even more extreme. I think that's the reason why I find Sylas sympathetic while Demacia seems absolutely monstrous.
Like you said Jarvan IV and Garen have good intentions and believe they are the good guys but Hitler and Stalin believed that as well.
Also that jarvan and garen might have no idea how extreme these mageseeker are. I would think if you would try to change the System the mageseeker who would Lose their whole porpuse are going to the extreme with mages to Show how much theyre needed instead of beeing " ohh youre right we kill poeple cause we are scared "
dont put stalin and hitler in the same sentence
@@bobob6128 That's the problem with carving out a world and stories within backstories and lore excerpts. You really can't progress stories beyond a certain point or they'll create changes that ripple out and change the world or other characters. Jarvan and Garen are "good guys" but they'll never discover how extreme mageseekers are because that would introduce change. Vi and Caitlyn are trying to protect as many people as they can while fighting against the corruption inherent in their system and hierarchy, but they'll never succeed meaningfully because that would introduce change. So it creates this weird stasis in the world of Runeterra where we have hundreds of stories going on, but none will actually finish or even progress.
I don't understand how people can't sympathize with Sylas. He grew up in a cell eating rats and only started a violent revolution when he was about to be executed for no reason.
@@zloktopod Considering the post was coming from a Polish perspective, nah, it's entirely appropriate to put Hitler and Stalin in the same sentence.
If they can share a country before turning on each other, they can share a sentence.
I suspect that they see the Piltover-Zaun conflict more in light of the conflict between the Piltover Aristocrats and the Zaun Chem-Barons, as opposed to a true class conflict between those with political power and those without.
Much like data, there's no such thing as unbiased politics.
And much like data, you can't do anything meaningful _without_ politics. Though much unlike data, people like to pretend they don't have any politics at all.
@Tony Tran you really managed to take a word as inherently political as "progressive" and convice yourself it refers to something apolitical??..... this civilisation really depresses me
Thank you for your service, Skyen.
From what I have seen thus far the show actually criticizes Piltover quite a lot. In an episode Caitlyn actually sees that the lower levels of Zoan are horrible nightmarish and all kinds of fucked up, while Vi confronts her by saying "do you forget about this place, up there?" (or something along those lines).
The kids are poor and trying to survive against the enforcers who are shown to be vicious and, all around assholes.
So I'd say that the shows sides with the little guy, which I say it's a good change of pace. It also portrays the higher ups to be corrupt as all hell.
I love the transparency behind your financial situation in regards to this topic. It’s an incredibly refreshing thing to see.
Riot: "let's fund this youtuber to make an Arcane video."
TB: "so here is how Riot wrote Shurima to support slavery."
Jokes aside though, I wouldn't be surprised if the writers wanted to tell a more reasonable story, but the Chinese censorship prohibited portraying anti-government characters in a positive light, so they smooth the edges.
It's more possible that Riot's upper management censors them because "controversial" opinions aren't good for marketing the game
Literally was thinking to myself "hey one more day till arcane i wonder if skyen is going to do a 'things to know' vid like necrit and dinka" and then (♡˙︶˙♡)
I started watching Arcane for the escapism from the monotony, repetitiveness, and loneliness of my everyday life, and didn’t really consider the political and social themes as all I desired was a fantastical world of magic, adventure, and heroism where I didn’t need to think as hard but sit back and enjoy the romantic themes and animation. Now, after watching act one, I’m staying for that deeper subject matter as I realized that it was what I had been yearning for in my other favorite shows. This video was extremely illuminating, and I hate that the story tellers are falling, once again, into their ways of defining the different classes/factions by a single representative, whilst pushing the ideals of the establishment’s superiority and that we shouldn’t revolt against an unjust system. I’m gonna keep watching though, I’m too far in to stop now. Thank you for this eloquent breakdown and analysis!
After the show coming out, here's a quote that's exactly what you are getting at
"I'm not putting you away Vander."
"Without you down here, it all falls apart."
That with the right people on top, "trust the process" and it'll work out.
Or maybe I'm just bad at interpretation.
Late to this but I figured I'd give my two cents.
Piltover and the Enforcers don't intend to lock Vander up because he is a passive enforcer (heh) of the status quo. He is the idea of a person who has given up because he "doesn't want things to get worse." His revolt led to the deaths of many and several orphans (who he adopted), and he wants to live a passive life doing whatever he can to make sure things stay peaceful.
Silco, on the other hand, believes for the longest time that nothing is more important than independence. After all, if your nation is independent there won't BE any worry of your children going hungry, or your parents dying of overwork. He didn't understand Vander's passivity until he took in Jinx as a daughter. It's why the deal was doomed the moment Jayce demanded the handover of Jinx to the Enforcers. Silco had absolutely 0 intention of ever giving her up and he would have either negotiated for a different solution or called it off altogether.
Vey well put, this is exactly what I feel might disappoint me with Arcane. I've had the same issue with Legend of Korra where the first season had a very bad dynamics between factions and all grievances of non benders vs benders where just thrown out as jealousy and the main issue was never examined
I feel like there is a degree of evil wherein violence and revolution is absolutily needed to overcome it. But I'm still skeptical cause most revolutions generally don't work out as planned.
Yeah just like what happened in my country
Revolutions are never perfect, but often necessary. You can't predict the future, but it stands to reason if you let things continue as they are they will continue to stay that way. Hoping that things will get better as time progresses isn't effective, and if other non-revolutionary actions aren't sufficient to get the needed change then the only option left is to revolt. Nobody ever wants it to come to that, but if you can't avoid it you can't get too hung up on what happens after until you actually make it there.
after watching the first 3 episodes, i think i can conclude that this time it is not from an authoritarian bias, but actually examining the politics. silco, though a bit power hungry, genuinely tries to do what's best for the people of zaun, whilst his former partner, vander, is collaborating with piltover, betraying his former self to make his life easier. silco and jinx, are the heroes of the story because they stay true to themselves. whilst vi, and all of piltover, are the villains for accepting a system of oppression
While I agree with your conclusion, the framing of the show so far has Silco and Jinx as the "bad side". If you asked people who the villain is after these 3 episodes most would say Silco and almost no one would say Mel and her council, who really are the main upholders of opression.
@@pointlessnesses I would say Mel lol
@@pointlessnesses i think that the more astute watchers will be able to point out that the reason zaun is how it is right now is because of the mistreatment by piltover. and silco, now with jinx, are trying to end this stranglehold on zaun.
I would like to point out that once again the villain, and it is Silco, is being portrayed as someone seeking vengeance against the system and can be considered both callous and ruthless.
@@SH-qs7ee Silco just wants power for himself. He opresses everyone in his circle if they stop to support everything he does.. Mel is manipulative and evil too. So is half of the council. I think there are evil people on both sides. There is no clear Villian in my opinion. But if I had to choose I would say it's the head of the council Mel and Silco. We don't know what Jinx's motives and desires are yet.
SPOILER WARNING!!!
So far with what I've seen with Arcane they are doing a fairly good job of not falling into this tarp though there are some parts I am kind of cynical of. I think the best example is that Silco plan worked. While it is hard to seem Vander as necessarily wrong, he's strategy did help prevent mass collateral damage that would the under-city residents would have suffered if war broke out, and Silco's actions are irredeemable, especially mass disrupting the drug Shimmer which hurt a massive number of undercity residents. At the same time his strategy sort of worked. Jace might have agreed to make peace because he was traumatized seeing a kid killed as collateral damage, but let's be honest, the rest of the Piltover elites were just cared shitless of a war, probably did not want to damage all the side deals they had with Silco and his ilk, and Mel probably had a lot of dirt on all of them.
Also, there is the long running double standard you seem multiple time for Piltover verses, Under-City residents, Jace refusing to crack down on Piltover corruption, him getting a promotion for his dangerous experiments, while Vi hunted down and thrown into a prison that's shock Gitmo guards, for indirectly causing it. Which also lends itself to examining how the Piltover system creates its own problems. Corruption and negligence is just as responsible for every as Silco of Jinx, the last episode is even called "The monster you Create".
I think in this case the showing also side comment was more about understand the complexities of not only these issues but how we address them. You can both respect and be frustrated by Vanders policy, and both hate Silco's actions and understand where they are coming from. Also, the fact he has resistance from other undercity residences is important to note. It can of shows the rebellion can be done "right", but you got to be careful to not latch on to whatever demagogue claims to be fighting for the greater good and blindly fallows his strategies without though for the consequences.
I am still really hopeful having watched the first 2 parts that it has something interesting to say beyond centrism.
Nobably in the show's criticisms of Heimerdinger we get some resistance to King's the myth of time and it's done by one of our piltover heroes. Heim is a good vehicle for this due to his longevity. It's gonna be interesting to see if they stick to that idea or if it's revealed to be portrayed as a character flaw in part 3. It was really hard to say what it would be in the moment.
I honestly just hope they don't do Vi and Victor dirty in this. Even though I know her backstory, I hope she doesn't end up as a cop and I hope he's portrayed sympathetically.
Basically it's make or break for part 3 and it's kinda interesting not knowing where they're going to go with it. I know my hopes will probably be dashed but based on a lot of what I've seen so far I'm willing to take the risk.
The class conflict here is unavoidable. I don't think Riot quite understands what they've done here with this whole war between the rich and the working class. Zaun is right to be upset. They are living in the worst of conditions. If they don't address that, I'll be pretty upset. But then again, it's Riot, and as you've mentioned it's far from the first time they've taken a moral conflict and made it into a "both sides are evil" problem when that's far from the case
And yet Zaun in itself looks like a miniature projection of the PNZ conflict with their Chem-Barons. As far as I see it, they are fighting fire with fire. My way of solving would be to use the power of the hextech crystal to solve the problem of pollution. But the political conflict will stay as long as Piltover wants to stay PiltOVER.
The thing is, I don't mind a "both sides are evil" idea so long as we can agree the motivation for the Zaun side is entirely justified. Making them corrupt and having leaders of the would-be revolution be drunk with power would be far from unrealistic, and it would add some depth to what I otherwise a very clear "good vs bad" conflict.
What I fear is Riot will just stop at ONE singular guy being evil and say "see, everyone is bad, let's keep the status quo" instead of actually doing anything with the movement. Address why it is so popular, whether Piltover has done anything good despite their morally bankrupt way of acquiring their wealth, how Zaunites would act if their objective of toppling the corrupt Piltover government succeeded.
There is a lot of room for conversation and exploration in this topic and if Riot's history had taught us anything, they may just scratch the surface and not even bother to develop any of it.
Yes, very good idea they should totally take a morally grey story and characters and change it into a good vs bad scenario with my values as the good and the others as the bad.
@@nicolaszan1845 thinking the other are bad around history seems legit. Just see every communism revolution and how he ends to be a dictator. Unipersonal power is something very dangerous.
It's interesting to come back to this after Philosophy Tube's "Violence & Protest" video essay dropped. A lot of points dovetail together well here. Above all else, the show suggests explicit (often intentional) violence is unredeemable while implied (often unintentional) violence isn't. To pull from Zizek's "Violence":
"He [Nikolai Lossky] simply couldn't understand who would want to destroy
his way of life. What had the Losskys and their kind
done? His boys and their friends, as they inherited the
best of what Russia had to offer, helped fill the world
with talk of literature and music and art, and they led
gentle lives. What was wrong with that?
While Lossky was without doubt a sincere and benevolent person, really caring for the poor and trying to civilise Russian life, such an attitude betrays a breathtaking insensitivity to the systemic violence that had to go on in order for such a comfortable life to be possible. We're talking here of the violence inherent in a system: not only direct physical violence, but also the more subtle forms of coercion that sustain relations of domination and exploitation, including the threat of violence."
I would say to your criticisms of Demacia and Shurima stories that there have been multiple historical precedents where the revolutionaries turn out to be worse dictators than the regime they overthrew.
You portray Zaun as this worker region that should rise up and topple Piltover. While the portrayal of the Zaun villain does show that revolutionary does not always do things for you. Sometimes he just uses popular dissent to make a power grab.
Watched the final clip and thought: Dammit, it was going so well and guess how it ends. The system was about to do peace thing with the thing they oppressed. Jinx was out of line and ruined it. Jinx is portraited as lost and piltover was redeemable because they where bout to offer peace.
Not shitting on the series, but Skyen freaking called it.
He has a point I have the same problem with other popular fictional series like X-men The oppressed are demonized while the oppressor’s are humanized.
The centrist stance, the painting of slaves as vile for being impatient with their situation and the ever redeemable elites...this was more insightful than I’d expect from a show review on RUclips in 2021. Impressive. Subscribed!
I think your point about the rebellious being seen as bad and the ones that rule being seen as flawed but redeemable interesting because it seems like you are going what Riot have asked you to do: "we shall make it neutral and you can decide what you believe". I won't comment on Surima because I am not well versed with its lore, but Sylas is still portrayed as redeemable and sympathetic. Not all the time, sure, but that is the same for every person in the demacia story. Lux is an optomist that wants a better world for everyone but still benefits from her noble status and hides her magic and let's her own family hunt people just like her so she can save herself. Garen is a complicit soldier of the state even when he knows the mages that they hunt are often innocent of any crime beyond how they were born, but stays in line to protect his sister as out of fear of not being able to defend his home from other threats. Sylas is no different. He is someone that witnessed the torture and murder of hundreds of innocent people and then saw himself imprisoned for 15 years, even after being a loyal dog to the state. He fights to change the status quo knowing that no meaningful change could happen without forcing it to happen. Yet he doesn't kill the king, and is worried when he realises the message the the Kings death would send. He kills people, but only to exact change, to him it isn't revenge but the cracked eggs that must be sacrifices to save more people. The way modern league portrays it lore is less "I I scared to take strong opinions either way" and more "these characters all have detailed motivations and histories that we are trying to make as human and believable as possible". It represents a drive to move away from "this guy is bad" and "this guy is good", because everyone is grey, and only a very select few characters will ever fit into the "unredeemable bad"- the only one I can think of is Morde and even then he has layers to his villainy. It isn't just bad people bring bad for the sake of it.
There are a few more I can think of as irredeemably bad, but none of them are human. ex. Fiddlesticks, Nocturne, Volibear, The voidlings in general, and I think veigar.
@@caledvwych1366 Volibear defo isn't all bad, like as far as I am concerned we can't place labels of "good" and "evil" on creatures and beings just following their survival instincts. Like Voli is a god that sees beyond the mortality of man.
Exactly, he is just proyecting his own political biases.
I can accept that certain things are outside the spectrum of regular human morality. But I'm also pretty sure that both Anivia and Ornn consider Voli to be at least hostile, and probably evil, so they seem to fit into the "human" morality system and thus I think that I would include voli as well. Though, I can see why you would say he is outside of it.
Also, I do not understand how anything I said was political? Moral and political are two different things (at least for me, I am aware they are more connected for some people).
I watched this after seeing the show itself. I see your points, but I found that Silco was addressed in a far more nuanced way. I thought he was a master class in who to write a strong antagonist.
Now I think about it - they had to push REALLY hard to make Silco the bad guy.
Everything Silco says about Piltover is correct; the only reason the audience has any reason to dislike him is because he’s an extremist. It’s just that his methods, like human experimentation and blackmailing cops, are too far. From his perspective, Zaunite independence is a goal worth paying any cost for. It’s like he was TOO good at being the justifiable villain, because they had to make him use some really terrible methods to come across as a villain. The way he’s shot in every scene he’s in makes him look sinister though, and it seems like it’s trying to draw a conclusion for you.
In reality, how far is “too far” for self determination, democracy and the lives of Zaunites? Is Vander really a “good guy” because he gave up the fight for independence because the personal stakes were too high, and was his peaceful compromise worth it? Had Silco succeeded, he might have been remembered as a hero and a freedom fighter in Zaun.
The reason they consistently fuck up these stories that are so close to the point it’s painful is the same reason they retconned Zac into slime Batman. The logical, inescapable conclusion of the stories they themselves are telling are things they fundamentally disagree with. Conservative storytellers will always fail because, if they do they’re job correctly, they will consistently disprove their own perspective. So the obfuscate at the last second when they realize that their heroes, the Monarchs, the Oligarchs, the Slave owners, were actually the bad guys the whole time. They get so close and instead of realizing their own stance is bunk they say “oopsie, can’t have that, it must the the traumatized slave that’s REALLY at fault.” But it falls apart under the barest scrutiny.
First video I've watched of yours, great quality and the outro sealed it. Hats off sir!
Dude this video fucking rocks your analysis is on point. Even the terms you use are top notch. Immediate subscribe
I gotta think about how vander in the show at some point says ‘everybody loses in war’…. Like dude you are already losing!!!
Well, it was clear that Zaun couldn't actually win against Piltover. If they tried they'd go extinct.
Season 1 spoilers below ...
There is one element of the show that gives me hope for a more nuanced political story in season 2: Ekko and the Firelights. They seem like a pretty classically punk anarchist group, living outside the system and taking the fight to both the enforcers and the chembarons, exploiters from the upper city and the lower. And while Silco and his ilk are a bunch of violent mobsters and the enforcers look like actual stormtroopers, the Firelights come out of the season looking like ... the good guys, actually. Their sanctuary is an oasis of light and life amidst and darkness and pollution. What if Ekko and his group step up to fill the power vacuum left by Silco, and start to actually fight for the best interests of the people of Zaun? Will Heimerdinger stand up against the corrupt system he built?
This one line from Ekko in episode 9 gives me hope that I'm not just making all this up: "It's not enough to give people what they need to survive. You have to give them what they need to LIVE."
Bread and roses, anyone?
Hell yeah! Nice analysis of some of my favorite scenes in Arcane.
Yes I agree. The movement has a beautiful solarpunk aesthetic as well which was a great visual balance against the polished finery of Piltover and the grimy industries of Zaun. I feel like they were unequivocally portrayed in a positive light too unlike the Chembarons and The Councillors. Honestly surprised at how nuanced the politics actually got, I was expecting something much more black and white. Not that it's perfect, but it was much better than most.
The analysis that takes place in your Bad Apple segment was chef's kiss, very well done!!!! @T B Skyen
Really nice video. Honestly a lot of mainstream media have really bland takes on social conflict or power struggles or all that, there's some popular anime and games with the same problems.
No DO the politics of Arcane now the show has aired. It is super intresting to compare the politics between the real world, it is super informative!
This video feels like a thesis statement for Skyen's entire channel, or at least the parts that aren't tied to character design.
9:05: In a literal sense, showing the conflict and letting the audience come to their conclusions is a good thing. In practice, though, the author should probably be leading the audience to one particular set of conclusions. You shouldn't outright say the xenophobic fascist empire is evil, but you probably shouldn't give the impression that their view of the world is equally valid to those egalitarian heroic rebels.
For the record, I think Riot (and other "apolitical" game publishers) _does_ lead the audience to certain sets of conclusions-they just don't want to admit it.
In a way I find it sad that art has to be "justified" because life is not either. Show me a (realistic) dystopia were bad things happen and nobody gets to save them because sometimes worlds go down like that. But (sadly) art will always be influently to ones perspective, one way or another so not many dare to create it.
@@TheThomas2730 Um, most pre-Hunger-Games dystopian novels? And a lot of post-YA-dystopia-crash ones, too. I'm not sure what your point is, anyways; neither I nor Skyen are complaining about the existence of bad things, just the framing. The existence of enslaving emperors and genocidal kings isn't the problem; framing them as flawed but ultimately noble, and their opposition as power-hungry villains who're doing more harm than good, is.
this show was amazing the politics was discussed perfectly, every character made the decision that was right for them and their cause but the conflict rose when others did the exact same thing, no character was stupid and they all tried to do good arcane is an amazing show
Thank you SO MUCH. I had a hard time figuring the exact problem I had with Riot and Arcane, and this clarifies a lot!
21:50 was very clever. LOL
Your ideas are so thought provoking that I took notes.
I think they sidestepped our concerns in a way I didn't expect with the last episodes. Obviously there was the Revolution vs. Opression that you discussed, but I never got the message that the revolutionaries were bad or misguided. At the very least it wasn't the same ham-fisted look this topic that they did in the comics.
They basically just made Silco a failed revolutionary and had Ekko, Jinx, and Jayce shown as actual movers and shakers... But then undermined that by not giving Ekko nearly enough screen time.
Still, it's far better than the "rich old white guy who owns multiple factories run on child labor and sics the cops on his enemies is the face of the revolution" narrative some people apparently wanted.
Class analysis of Piltover and Zaun. Very interesting.
I don't know anything about LoL or Arcane, but as a Sociology PhD student, this was solid, well-explained, interesting, and valid.
Idk if I haven't watched enough of your videos, but I wasn't expecting this level of leftism from you. It is a breath of fresh air, I am grateful for your nuanced, yet not centrist perspective, and overall, rather objective analysis.
AHHHHHHHHH I’m so glad you touched on this. Spoke my mind through every minute.
Great video, great rhetoric, great arguments. Very interesting to hear and your voice is great too. I'll definitely subscribe!
19:39 yeah... you predicted pretty much the whole theme of the show there. I came to this video after finishing Arcane, dissappointed with the weird centralist themes present throughout the conflicts of the show. I really want to know how they're gonna go about wrapping up the plot if they continue with their tendency towards the preservation of the status quo in piltover and zaun.
This is the right video I was looking for.
After having watched arcane, you hit the nail on the head.
I'd argue that he was right on some political things in Arcane but pleasantly surprisingly wrong on others.
Welp, this video aged pretty well I think... since the show ends s1 with that "if only they had been more patient/less radical" scenario you point out, in the most literal way.
The politics of the show are really really green and definitely use centrist tropes but in the end, I would say that it's not completely painting the situation as "both sides are good and bad".
Worst sin Arcane committed was not seeing more of the firelights and Ekko tho. I feel like they were supposed to be the example of ""good"" rebellion against an oppressive system, but we never see them fight directly against the status quo. Even though we're told they're a problem for _both_ Silco and Piltover, what we actually see doesn't support that narrative (Ekko even admits most of their casualties are because of Silco)
How are you getting that?
If Jinx had been just a little bit less crazy, Silco would have hit a home run and scored a total victory. We have Jayce and Mel realising that Piltover has been the bad guys all along. By the end, even Heimerdinger seems to get that he is personally culpable for things having gotten this badly.
The Firelights were not a rebellion. They were mostly just an anti-Silco gang, and not overly concerned with Piltover or politics at all. And for Ekko, this was largely personal.
@@Carabas72 ehh I'll try to explain how I interpreted things::
By the end I think it's not so much that Mel and Jayce realize Piltover is the bad side or that Zaunites deserve better, more than that, they see that they'll be personally affected by the conflict between the two sides, so they decide to act in favor of stopping it.
Stopping direct conflict, giving into Silco's demands, will not actually be that much better for the people living in the Undercity. Independence is good, but they're still giving Zaun to a criminal and washing their hands off.
And, even if Jinx hadn't been completely crazy by the end there, Silco was probably gonna attack still because he wasn't willing to give her up. Then it wouldn't have been a victory, because like Jayce said, a war between the two would be way worse for Zaunites (they already live like shit, they don't need to add active warzone to it lol)
This is where I get the feeling that Ekko and the firelights were supposed to be the "third option". Ekko asks Caitlyn to be the one who gives them the gemstone because he sees that's a bargaining chip he can maybe use to get enforcers out of the Undercity or make Piltover take down Silco for good, who knows what he wanted to ask for specifically. He might not be giving monologues about a "Nation of Zaun" and of course has strong personal motivations, but I think a more independent Undercity is still one of his "collective" goals, though obviously lower on the list than "taking Silco down" since the guy is literally controlling the people with drugs. I think we are meant to compare and contrast the firelights' ideology of not just surviving but _living_ with Piltover's "out of sight, out of mind" approach and Silco's "power over all" rule. This is where giving them such little development was a problem imo. Because by having Ekko's role as a potential leader of the Undercity not explored fully, the show's left with a very bland stance on the topic of what's the best solution in this situation: Vander, who defended the status quo where they're still constantly oppressed, is the good guy and Silco, a violent criminal who advocates for liberation, is the bad guy.
So imo there is a fair bit of "both sides" in the show, Zaun deserves liberation - but the place is run by criminals; Piltover is oppressive, but they just need the "right" people in power to change things.
In the end, this is just how I saw things tho, and Arcane is more character driven than anything else, so it not having a perfect political message isn't that bad.
@@merlumiliI agree with what you said but I think we will get the firelights having more of a direct impact in season 2 given Ekko interacts with Heimerdinger, the most influential yet ignorant character who’s sort of a representation of Piltover. So given those two working together Ekko might be able to achieve something. Also the season did end with Jinx (who sort of represents Zaun) directly attacking Piltover, and again season 2 will probably go more into the effects of that
Yuuup, you put into words what I've been feeling since we got the first longer trailer. Piltover and Zaun are my favorite region because of their politics, but I fear that Arcane will try to present the conflict as radicals bashing heads, just to show us that the status quo is good actually. Hope I'm wrong, but Riot's record on such themes makes me anticipate some bullshit.
Great video! Very informative, I enjoyed this one a lot. You pointed out a lot of invisible things I never noticed before in riots lore.
I kind of understand what you mean with the fact that many characters that started uprisings are evil and powerhungry, but nevertheless I think of them pretty similarly as you and never felt forced to sympathise with Jarvan IV for example. Riot also tells the stories of Noxus where a revolution was achieved without violence on the scale of Demacia or Shurima and the new Noxus is consistantly portrayed as better than the old one. I think characters are well written and not as black and white as they used to be in the older days when Demacia was good and Noxus was evil and everything else was Barbaric.
this is my first time watching any of your content- i have to say, it’s extremely high quality. i love the way you present ideas
I love what you said about preference of status quo as that's exactly what Cait says in Vi's story (me paraphrasing) it's better those people died for nothing and we keep the status quo than to have more die for any sort of change.
Came here because I was starved of Arcane content, and instead got a really interesting lesson about the politics of Runeterra, and seemingly the kind of politics Riot Games is advocating. Would love to hear more breakdowns of this nature, quite honestly. Even on a meta-level of what Riot is doing.
Definitely agree here! I’d love to see more analyses of this type.
Instant follow, phenomenal analysis.
You see Mr Skyen, a piece of media is not political when it discusses real life political topics. A piece of media is political when there is gay people in it.
Now if you will excuse me i am gonna go play Bioshock and Fallout: New vegas, my favorite Politic-free videogames.
literally every fuqing "bro gamer" ever