Just a few things I wanted to clear up. First of all I wrote this script from an anime viewers perspective with everything before s4 part 3 in mind. I apologize to anyone who thought this was an anime and manga complete analysis of the best ending possible, I was merely trying to speculate about what I thought the best outcome could be with the information I had. Because this is the case it may make the video seem very flawed in regards to the totality of the story, but I was just trying to predict a possible outcome and didn’t fully understand the solidified motivations for each character yet up to that point. I had a long list of explanations written up of me trying to correct my mistakes. In order to write up that list I read the manga ending to piece together the details I was not aware of. I think through this new explanation it is okay to omit that long list of explanations now because other people explain how the video is flawed in reference to the manga perfectly well throughout the comment section. Although some parts of this video misconstrued certain details, I hope you can understand the ideas of understanding and sympathy I was getting at. I believe these principles can lead to the best semblance of peace we as humans can achieve, and although absolute peace is not achievable and there will always be some amount of division and turmoil, at the end of the day we are all just human and hearing each other out and trying to understand each other is the best thing we can do to try to maintain order and some amount of unity, albeit imperfect. Please refrain from spoiling the ending of the manga for others in the comments, I was initially an anime only when I made this video, but through wanting to engage with comments I had a few close calls and decided to finish the manga for myself to avoid spoiling it accidentally. If you are going to discuss manga spoilers, please try to explicitly state that, and have a some sort of separation before you do so the anime onlys can have fun trying to predict the ending. Try to be respectful of one another and remember that at the end of the day we are all human. Thank you.
when it come to feeling like you have to do something it really does not matter on right or wrong i feel that what there going for with Eren grand speeches and over all stubbornness mix that in with his angry and so on
the freedom Eren wanted is a free for all, not just people of Paradis Island considering how much power he has over Eldians everyone is free to do what they want, they can try to stop him, kill him, whatever it is, but he also has that freedom as well it doesn't really boil down to "understanding", but "freedom"; the survey corps fellows thinks freedom does not grant you the right to "do whatever you want" such killing and taking away the freedom of others, Eren thinks the opposite and takes the word at face value
Thing is humans also are hard-wired to seek groups and collectives to survive better, like packs of wolves or other animal herds. We form large groups to protect ourselves better from the other groups we see as worse, and when that worse group is gone you start to see more division.
@@thunderspark1536 The circles get smaller basically. In reality its more accurate to say that people are in various circles of different sizes and their actions depend on which circle the person is consciously aware of at the moment(or which they are biased towards)
Eren didn't care about what happens within the island, as long as the Eldians living there had the freedom to choose their own future, whether that future is good or bad, it didn't matter. That's the whole point of Eren's look on freedom. He didn't care about prosperity, he only cared about freedom.
Although that was the outcome that Eren desired, and technically (at least as far as the anime is currently concerned) his plan is coming to fruition, I am more criticizing the naivety of valuing the unadulterated freedom of the Eldian people over wishing for at least some amount of understanding between them. The newest part of the anime really started to harp on the fact that he has little to no free will in the matter on his own, which also further explains why he is so hard set on valuing freedom above all else and makes it easier to be sympathetic towards his ideals. I just think that a little degree of freedom being exchanged, for at least a small amount of understanding amongst the Eldian people is a worthwhile trade off, considering the dire consequences humanity endured with complete individual freedom and a lack of understanding of others.
@@animeapologist Have you read the manga? because if you have you would a clearer undestanding of why Eren did what he did. Plus even as seen in the lastest episode that he cannot change the future so he has no choice of following that cruel path to freedome.
@@gabrielemond5308 He can't change the future but that was a future he chose. It's made clear that, although he can't change it, he wouldn't even if he could. Knowing what he knows through the Founder's power, he would still go through with the rumbling. He's obviously not happy about it, but he wouldn't lie down and accept the death of his people and, most importantly, his friends.
"When Titans were the greatest threat, Titans were the enemy. When countries were the greatest threat, countries were the enemy. For as long as people hold firm to different beliefs, there will always be an enemy." ~ Attack on titan: The Final Season episode 27 mid-info card
Yep which means the true enemy is within ourselves which means to ensure peace mutually assured destruction of all human life must be executed. That way only one act of cruelty is needed to stop this cursed cycle
A very mature take. The story literally mentions over and over that people will always find a way to divide themselves into "us vs them" even if the Titans were gone but that goes over so many peoples' heads for some reason
Eren’s goal was never to stop all war or human conflict. He specifically wanted to end all hatred toward Eldians, protect Paradis from the world, and create the outside world he saw in Armin’s book.
Yes the show is trying to show us that rumbling is the only way, but only because the characters thinks that, doesn't mean that it is actually true. Yep what you said is absolutely correct, if Eren kills everyone outside Paradise, the hatred would not be gone, they would fight each other. But Eren doesn't care about that. He just wants to wipe out everyone outside paradise. So technically his plan can successed.
That's partly what led to the downfall of the Eldian Empire in the first place. When there were no more enemies to fight and conquer, they turned on each other. A very realist take, and it's a good take at that.
@@ashleighchance9420 difference here is. Elian's of the past were tired of dominating the rest of humanity so they begun infighting. This version of eldians are being oppressed by eldians. So their lack of enemies would institute freedom for hundreds of years at least. As the population grows and trees on the outside world begin growing again they will move out there and hundreds of years later we would have some bigger diversity. Every land animal has gone extinct though so they'd have to bring their cattle to populate the outside word as well as seeds. Erens rumbling did more than just kill humans. It was a mass extinction event for every animal and plant on the planet
@@erendripaeger9875 Eren never did it because of freedom, to save his friends or end the curse, he did because thats what he wanted to do. its his nature.
The Rumbling isn’t meant for universal peace. It was meant to ensure the safety of the citizens of Paradis from the forces beyond the sea who saw them as an island of devils. Civil Disputes within Paradis would also fall under the same freedom Eren mentions when his friends try to stop the rumbling.
It's funny that it parallels socialist year 1 thinking and so many of the nations in the show are socialist style portrayals and ideology being displayed.
@@yournumberonepal Socialism is about worker rights and struggles of rights under Capitalism. At no point were worker rights specifically involved in Attack on Titan, nor was Capitalism. The story is more fundamentally about the broad struggle for freedom. There is a little bit of surface level critique of class, but class struggle itself is as old as slavery. And the artstyle and ideology of the military is very much Nazi Germany. Under Nazi Germany, a theory called Social Darwinism drove their racist deology. This theory applies the idea of natural selection and survival of the fittest to human society. This means different groups of people compete for resources and power, and that some are more fit or superior than others. Nazis used this theory to claim themselves to be the superior race and all others were inferior, in order to justify inequality, imperialism, racism, eugenics, and genocide. In AoT, the Marleyians believe the Eldians are devils to justify inequality, imperialism, racism, eugenics, and genocide. Here, the similiarities are the dehumanization of "the other" in order to justify immoral acts against them.
@@deepseadarew6012 No, that is Marxism. Socialism is the man being made aware of his oppression. In Marx variety of socialism this manifests as the proletariat being made aware of their oppression by the bourgeoisie, basically class oppression. In Nazism this was manifest as racial oppression with the oppressor being the Jews. This is the part of socialism I was focused on as the concepts stem from more modern Critical Theory where the oppressor and oppressed are examined. The parallels in this story would start from a similar perspective, the concepts of oppressor and oppressed in AoT are quite clear as are they are similar to many historical events though they were sort of meshed together from different time periods.
Lmao Eren did the Rumbling just for the war between two sides equal and for his friends to be the equivalent to the Tybur family and for the rest of the world to see them as heroes
@@Omega-jg4oq "Even if I wasn't aware of how this would all end with you guys stopping me... I still would've reduced everything in this world to dust... I wanted to turn all the earth into a brand new land." (Eren, Chapter 139)
Okay... the rumbling was meant to be a tool for Eren to save Paradis NOT END HUMAN CONFLICT. Eren's plan could lead to peace if he manipulated Eldians' minds into being more sympathetic or more inclined to peace which is something Eren does not like because Eren wants them to free to choose for themselves. Its true humans need to understand each other like Gabi in order to be more sympathetic but that's not always the case since all people are different and sympathy ranges in terms of how much an individual has for their fellow man. Eren shows how he understands but has no choice because there so many people and the problem is more complex than his own misunderstanding... Eren doesn't do genocide out of Hate or anger but out of helplessness/little to no other options and survival/preservation. Paradis never hated mankind but their discovery of their reputation among humanity is what made them hate them too. Eren using the founder to change Eldians would be the better option than Zeke's with humanity because humanity cannot change unlike Eldians. The founder could create a utopian society for the Eldians but at the cost of some of their freedom which is a fair trade off since Laws take away freedom from humans for their own safety and betterment. In conclusion the rumbling worked but Eren didn't plan on solving human conflict even though he could but it would just go against his ideology (Eren is the symbol of Freedom after all and Freedom is the opposite of order/control but both can be comprised since he is Human at the end of the day not a God).
I was more analyzing the irony in the ideology of his plan and how it may eventually incur far too much suffering upon those he loves, compared to the freedom he thinks a possible immense amount of suffering is worth. It makes sense that he has the desire to bestow freedom upon the Eldian people, given the horrible circumstances that tortured him his whole life, and the fact that his fate is predetermined to be the arbiter of freedom is also a great touch of irony by the author. Although his plan is not flawed in the sense that he is unable to carry it through and achieve what he wants, his ideology is the result of being forced to live within a system of complete control, and wishing to completely give back that control to the rest of the Eldian people. But through giving all power to the peoples individual freedoms, he is actually opening up the best opportunity for another authoritarian regime to rise and oppress once again (horseshoe theory). I guess what it really comes down to for me is Eren being okay with history going down the same path of destruction again for the sake up freedom, but since “the game” (Eren’s life) was rigged in the way that it was I get why he had such a naive view of freedom.
@@animeapologist well that's one of the problems I have with the ending... Eren sacrificed everything for practically nothing... he didn't even discover that the freedom he sought-after wouldn't even make him happy. If Eren actually wanted to solve Paradis' problem he can but first Eren must deal with his own issues such as freedom. I thought in his relationship with Mikasa he would discover a different type of freedom (instead of the freedom to do what you want why not the freedom that comes from peace... the freedom to live which is what I thought Isayama was foreshadowing as both characters gave each other's cruel worlds colour and happiness/purpose to live for each other) when one is happy and in love they are in peace look at Grisha when he married Carla. Love helps people find meaning in their lives though not in others'. it could help Eren decide what is truly important in life rather than the basic desire of his young self. Instead of that Isayama just repeats the cycle again instead of leaving it to a conclusion when a conclusion was within reach.
@@triton5336 Umm so what is your solution to Pardis island problem do nothing if that happens than Marley and the rest of the world will invade and kill everyone on Pardis island, after that they will take all of the resources they have and after technology caught up to the power of Titans all Eldains around the world will die be infertile or most likely be turned into a Titan to make one last use what of them, you can criticise someone plan all you want however you must come out with a different plan as well.
@@hightower2141 the solution is the rumbling lol... I didn't say its the wrong solution. However there is more to it than that to truly save Paradis. Isayama could have only done 2 things... 1 make Mikasa side with him during the Rumbling out of her own free will instead of do what Eren wanted which was for her to kill him to stop the rumbling. Or 2 Make Eren go for the full rumbling with no plans of stopping but then Mikasa and Armin help him realize there maybe another way... Fake Eren's death by Armin's hand so humanity will consider diplomacy. Eren would be tired of the killing but also knows Armin is good with such things as when he trusted Armin to stop the Garrison Regiment from blowing them up. Eren leaves with Mikasa and Armin plays Hero or rather Helos. Ymir could have learned what real love is from Eren and Mikasa, Eren freed her and in more ways than one so gives him one last request: remove Titans from the world, but she won't just do that she will combine all shifters into Eren and leave their powers Dormant inside him till he dies. Eventually war will begin, Mikasa and Eren dies the cycle continues but this time things will change with Eren in the paths ready to fight one last time... once and for all. These Ends would have worked better than the garbage we got.
This video helps reinforce the idea that interaction between groups leads to less conflict, not more. You learn that they're just people, who need food, happiness, and a life to do what they want.
@@jimmyehlschlaeger3624 Eren was making the case for saving Armin over Erwin, this was before Eren had access to future memories. Also, season 1 episode 6, the Mikasa flashback I believe, might be episode 7, shows that Eren doesn't consider people who attack his friends as human. So even in the event Eren was discussing it in terms of the future, Eren doesn't consider the rest of the world in humanity. Eren was so fanatical on this point he doomed his mom to bring about the future after gaining access to the paths.
Couple of issues. - Founder can only rewrite history via memories of Eldians, not the rest of the world. - Eren had no interest in peace. He did, ideally, want to protect his friends. But the Rumbling was more about his ideal of freedom (which is very specific and not what most of us generally think of as freedom). Zeke was the idealist that was acting somewhat altruistically. Eren's motivations are driven by his own personal desire for his twisted view of freedom first. Protecting Paradis is a secondary factor. He also never mentions anything about any peace. Creating peace and protecting something are very different.
Zeke's plan is to end titans and all the terrible things that come from that power, at no point is he portrayed to be gullible enough to believe there would be no conflict. A world without titans is better than a world with. There's no reason to say; because bad things will still happen it's pointless to do anything about problems.
@@yournumberonepal actually no , Zeke's plan is to used the Founding Titan's powers to make all Eldians sterile so they could no longer have kids, and the Power of the Titans would end ......the eldians still can live peacefully for the next 50-100 yrs until they all die ......they just can't reproduce, killing someone who isn't born yet is not considered as genocide
Which is just utter bs anyways since eldians will continue killing themselves so they're gonna split and we all know what happens when 1 race/country splits. They just create a new country and viola, another war starts. His intentions are rooted from good but it solves nothing in the end therefore its pointless.
@@gudhaxer41343 tell me in any other outcome will there not be fighting or conflict? Is there a situation where everybody lives in peace and harmony with no issues whatsoever? No it solves the targeted discrimination of him and his race of people that was the root cause of going to extremes because the opposition was on the extreme and plotting complete destruction. They may and will fight but they will survive they would eventually build the outside world. People always say that as if any other option automatically equals no conflict even in season 3 it was a civil war of sorts
He also holds no nationalism about “his people” either. Of course, he doesn’t not care about them but the special says there’s more to it than just saving Eldia.
Manga spoilers..... this is exactly how I interpret the extended ending of the manga. Some people view it as the rest of the world taking revenge for the rumbling and that Eren was right all along, but my interpretation is that Isayama is saying that conflict will always exist, as long as people have the ability to assign themselves to groups there will always be a reason for one group to dislike another. This is why I think Armin is the best character in the series. He knows that achieving peace and understanding is a massive undertaking that may very well be doomed to failure, but trying to do so is the best any of us can ever do.
@ushnikmitra and by "near future" you mean hundreds of years later, not to mention he was already handicapped by Eren having done the rumbling. Also I will admit that one line thanking Eren was dumb, even Isayama has admitted that
You're right and I hate it when those Yaegrists say "Look at the last chapter and you know Eren/ Floch was right". If Eren's plan succeeds, it's just a more horrible future, a civil war with Titan shifter. And I think Paradise is not innocent in the extended ending, in the last chapter we're informed that the Yaegrist took over the country and united all people because they feared being revenged by the outsider or something, there must be some new genocides or wars outside the wall before the rest of the world could finally fighting back.
@ushnikmitra Lol I never said genocide on an island is justified, it's just less unjustified than on the world, you are distort my words. But I think I have wrong memory about Isayama's favourite character, thanks for remind me.
Armin even said that the war for power will just be reduzed to a smaler scale on the Island. The events after the rumbling even show another war with people who are pro Eren and anti Eren.
Like many have said, neither Zeke or Eren ever claimed that their plans would bring about world peace, they were meant to accomplish other things entirely. Also, when I clicked on this video I thought it would be something about how the titans from the inner walls didn't trample everyone inside the walls.
There was already division in the anime between the Yeagarists and the Paradis military. When the “heros” of the story had to chose a side; even though they knew what Eren was trying to do, they still decided to support him on his quest when they could have actually stopped him before Eren implemented his plan.
As others mentioned here before... Rumbling would work perfectly in accordance to actual goal it was launched for. Goal was securing Paradis freedom from outside threats, not some eternal peace. This peace talk is so often brought up by fandom and amusingly enough also few characters in story itself, and all of them utterly ignore actual context behind Rumbling.
It wouldn't be a long term solution, but I am struggling to see exactly what other options he has available. Remember, the people of Paradis are NOT equal to the people outside of it. Zekes plan is essentially suicide and so I can see why that's unfavorable, but Armin's plan wouldn't work either, Even if Eren crushed the global military alliance, people would still fear the Eldians and their ability to turn into titans. No matter how long it took, people would look to undermine their strength and destroy Paradis, whether they had to do it through subterfuge or building up even better armies, or what have you. The first king's plan of just keeping the two species of human separate also didn't work... At least with Eren's plan, Everyone would have the ability to become titans, which would put humanity back on a more or less even playing field (The titan shifters would still have OP amounts of power though) Zeke's plan would also achieve this with similar results, putting humanity back on an even playing field, but again, I understand why suicide isn't a great option for him.
but it isn’t out of the question that the people of paradis in the near future could fight amongst themselves but it definitely see your points and reasoning.
So are you saying in a sense that Paradis should join Marley Mid-East War on the side of the Allies? That's what I interpreted here because to me, talking with Marley is never going to work. Why? The majority of Marley just hated the Eldians too much and Marley always behaved as this "man who is going to threaten anyone to get whatever he wanted because he has guns". The reason why I think the Mid-East Allied Forces are willing to accept help from Paradis by the time of the Battle of Fort Slava is because any help will be appreciated at that point and because both the Mid-East and Paradis shared a common enemy.
Initially I thought Eren’s best option was what I said, in that he could use the power of the founding Titan to rewrite history. When I worked on the script for this video it was around the time the trailer for season 4 part 3 dropped, so the series hadn’t yet harped on how bottlenecked Eren’s fate was and how little free will he had since I am an anime only viewer. I thought he could use the founding Titan’s power to coerce Ymir to wish for understanding and acknowledgement of differences amongst the Eldian people from the future. It doesn’t really seem that way as the anime portrays it now, so I hope his friends are able to convince him to allow Eldians to give up a small amount of freedom for understanding post-rumbling, so that they and their descendants have a better shot at a semblance of prosperity instead of enduring the horrible fate King Fritz bestowed upon Ymir’s people and the world for 2,000 years.
@@animeapologist There is one thing missing in your plan by the way. How will Eren be fed to Gabi? Not only Eren will be resisting that plan but I can see Armin and Mikasa also resisted such a plan as well.
That's exactly what Erwin and Eren said when Pxis asked them about the story of enemies uniting to take down another common enemy. There would always be conflict as long as there are two or more people in the world. Eren knows this already. The only reason he's proceeding with the rumbling is because he has already seen the future and knows how it will turn out. He's just tired of carrying the burden of sins that were committed years before he was born and wants his friends to stop him by killing him. He believes he'll only be free when he's dead. You can't blame the guy tbh
He vowed to kill ALL of the Titans and then he became one. Quite the conundrum he found himself in season 1, don't you think? Yet he named to actually pull it off in the end, at least temporarily. 😕
eren didnt go into the rumbling wanting to be killed, he went in it fully intending to wipe out the world but instead saw a future memory of the alliance killing him, which he's kinda forced to just succumb to. or atleast thats what i think
The thing is, The Founding Titan isn't some magical lamp. It doesn't grant wishes, nor could it just rewrite all of Eldia's history. The amount of things Eren could change were limited purely to those of the Attack Titan themselves, something that didn't come about until long after Eldia started becoming the warmongers history knew them as; and even beyond that, we don't know how many "generations" back the Attack Titan's power functions. It could be limited to two, or it could be more. On top of this, Eren never cared about what came after. All he cared about was ensuring that Eldians had *a* future at all, because he couldn't dictate what that future would look like. The whole conflict revolving around the Founding Titan is a perfect example of moral ambiguity once you look at it beyond the context of the acts taken themselves. Neither side is in the right, because both outcomes end up in the same place down the road. The only difference is who are the ones left standing to fight each other. The one person who had a chance to change the course of history was Willy Tybur during the Declaration of War, but he didn't out of fear that Eren would wipe out everyone else. This fear then started that declaration, and thus forced Eren's hand as the choice between Paradis or The World was made for him. Had no declaration been made and the world chose to leave Paradis be, The Rumbling wouldn't have happened at all; or at least not in Eren's lifetime. After that, it would have all come down to what action Zeke took.
I believe that Eren's concept of freedom actually ties all the way back to Ymir, not just the current Eldians. She was a slave and, even after gaining the founding Titan, remained under the control of the original Eldian king. Neither she nor her descendants ever had freedom; instead, they were bred and forced to consume the carcasses of their parents in order to maintain and expand their use by the Eldians for power (and later the Marlayans, who only appreciated their utility as Titans and Titan-shifters). As Eren appealed to Ymir in S4 E21, "You are not a slave. It's your choice. You have a choice," with this extending to her descendants - representing, for the first time, freedom.
It appears that we are conflating freedom with peace. Notice, at the end of Season 3, Eren did not ask if the people of Paradis would have "peace" if they defeated all of their enemies across the sea; he asked if they would finally be "free." Whether you use that freedom to live in peace or destruction is up to you; but Eren's goal is to finally give the subjects of Ymir the freedom to make that choice.
The rumbling would specifically ensure that for a while, a foreign invader wouldn't come to paradis with the intention of murdering most if not all the inhabitants. Even if infighting occurred afterwards it wouldn't likely compare to what would happen if a coalition of other nations decided to come to the island with hostile intent. Of course there would be no plan that would result in a utopia, these plans were only hatched in the interest of avoiding worst case scenarios. They were also created as short term solutions, of course there will never be any guarantee that peace continues in the long term. (Mind you this isn't to say that killing off 85% of the worlds population is in any way justifiable).
This video misses the point of the rumbling. World peace is not the goal of anyone in the entire show. Eren doesn’t want his entire race to be systematically exterminated by the United Nations of the entire planet. A 100% rumbling would 100% end the persecution of Eldians, that’s a fact. Because everyone would be an Eldian
This is so obvious that I can’t believe this video was made. How do you manage to completely misinterpret the goal of the rumbling when it’s literally repeated multiple times throughout the season by Eren himself.
@@kamilmagomedov2070I think it's y'all who are misinterpreting, the question this Video is asking is, why is it any better if Eldians kill Eldians instead of non eldians, the whole reason the conflict between Paradise and the rest of the world exists isn't because what happened 2000 years ago, or even 100 years ago, no, it's human nature, the suffering in the world of AoT was created by the human nature of conflict and violence, and taking out the other side doesn't make a difference, because by that logic, the next conflict that arises should also end the same way, with one side getting wiped out If the reason for the rumbling was to prevent injustice from happening because an entire race of people were getting wiped out for sins they didn't commit, then is it just to do the same you don't want done to you?
It doesn't matter if suffering continues to exist, but the diving line between Eldians and other people will always overshadow every other type of discrimination, which will have Eldians under constant threat and vice versa. Another potential solution would be to gradually convert the entire world into Eldians, through marriage slowly humans could eventually have Eldian blood, ending this type of discrimination (although highly unlikely as a realistic solution). But that aside, to have Eldians prevail as the dominant race would in fact be the ideal outcome, considering the founding titan is literally akin to a god, and so are the 9 titans. By providing good education to those who inherit these Titans, and adding in the mix the memories of previous users, it's as if these people may have already lived more than 1 lifespans and hold greater knowledge that could be used for the greater good. Not to mention the limitless instant communication of the Founding Titan and the ability to control every other Eldian, it's like a sort of evolved ant society.
I think what most people don't understand, including you, is that the show shifts it's priorities. At first it was about claiming lost lands from titans, then it was about uncovering the truth about titans which led to uncovering the truth about the world, which then shifted towards peace talks and treaties, and then finally shifted towards solving a problem when all else failed. Let's be real here, for the Marleyans the problem was Eldians, and vice versa. By the end of season 4, it was deemed an all out war with both parties pretty much wanting to annihilate the other. Eren, through the rumbling simply won the war. Gabi wasn't the only person filled to the brim with hatred for the Island devils. Reiner was the same way. Did his values change after returning home from the island? Yes. Did he change his goals though? Nope. The island was still the problem. If he chose the island he'd be turning his back on his family. If he chose his family, that'd mean killing his friends on the island. Reiner couldn't change his goals after living on the island for four years and Gabi is suddenly the perfect next of kin after spending a week on the island? So all things considered, I don't really see how Gabi being Eren's successor solves anything.
Something that i think is interesting in the world of AOT, is that, as long as humanly was borne that was always war, there was never a time in history that humanity was in peace and i think that's why character like Eren see peace as a unreachable dreeam, it's just a too foreign concept for them.
Eren just making sure his ppl r free, what they choose to do with their freedom is not his concern Humans will argue and fight no matter the circumstanves as it’s in their nature
Zeke's plan at this point it was the only plan getting rid of the power of titans. No other plan offered another solution Attack on titan have continously mentioned how as long as titans exist, there will be no peace, but not as to say that if titans disappeared, peace would be fundamental after that. But the whole point was for the inequality to dissappear. The series also showed us how after Marley ended the wars with other nations, then everyone could sit at the table speaking about diplomacy as equals. But with eldians it was not the same since there was an inherent fear of the titan powers that existed Therefore Zeke as well as many eldians wished for eldians to have never been born at all but that would be a big analogy for the power of titans. Of course eternal peace is unachievable and I think Zeke knows that, but Zeke at the time of the anime was the only one who proposed a solution that would get rid of titan powers, with the cost being all of the eldian future. He wouldn't kill all the eldians currently alive but would peacefully with the threat of the rumbling have the titans dissappear hence that inherent fear to dissappear I am not mentioning erens plan cause it seems simple but many of the things that it covers are still at this point manga only and I don't want to spoil anything
Floch knew this point, which is why he was so adamant about killing outsiders. He knew they'd be the first of the eldain empire to fight back and he wanted to kill them for it. Even in his final moments he begged them to not kill Eren as it would doom eldia. Previously he was calling them traitors but in his final moments he talked to them as people. He told them why they shouldnt go and with his final breath tried to persuade them. I can't understand why people hate floch man
@@JojoSmacks Floch gave everything for his people and nation rather then some vague impossible ideal, he is the opposite of the childish comic book hero
@@JojoSmacks people hate floch because he gleefully mocked innocent people to their faces that their loved ones were being massacred and then executed them for refusing to kiss his ass, it's not that complicated. he became EXACTLY as bad as the people he hated and wanted dead. he also decimated the military- his own people- so the eldians on paradis wouldn't have been safe from his little dictatorship either.
@@JojoSmacks The Eldian Empire was terrible and shouldn’t be brought back. Floch definitely had fascist tendencies, that’s why people don’t like him. His way of thinking was VERY black and white
@@cats1177 except those haters can't even deny the fact that the story is presented in a black and white scenery and the diplomacy between paradis and outer world is completely off-screened coz author have no idea about how to justify his hero team
It wouldn’t guarantee their safety from each other after the event, true, but I don’t think that was the point. If that’s how it turned out, at least they had the freedom of choice to do so. While the world was persecuting them, they had no freedom. They had little to no control over their destiny. That’s all Eren wanted for them and his friends. Even at the cost of the rest of the world’s freedom. And while it can’t guarantee their safety from each other, it guarantees their safety from everyone else. It’s a horrible necessity, but it was the only way to 100% guarantee the race of Eldia survived.
Bruh. It’s not erens problem if eldians fight each other. He doesn’t care. It’s not Zekes concern if other non eldians fight non eldians. Their goals weren’t to create absolute peace.
Congratulations, you argued that the rumbling wouldn't work because it doesn't do something that it isn't supposed to due. Eren isn't trying to end all conflict, he is trying to end the specific conflict which is threatening to wipe out his people The rumbling isn't about some higher ideal of peace, it is merely about survival. Eldia would likely face new conflicts after the rumbling, but at least they would be alive to see them. The world after the rumbling may be better, or it may simply be another hell. Fact is the only way to know is to live to see it.
When this anime started (I know manga was first but I was a kid when it started) I was wondering where the Titans were coming from, like a factory I thought sorta like fallout FEV mutants, and years years later, it's now a giant debate about philosophy and human actions, I never would have thought of this going so far into the future.
Heres the thing. My theory is that ut would only work if the rumbling gets complete but if it doesnt it would just make the situation worst. There prob could have ended up being peace negotiations between nations they just need time and patience. Like real life. Also the show have said multiple time the rumbling wouldnt stop wars there will still be wars with the people of the walls. Also eren is 100% not justified and the story i think is def on the same opinion as me and some may not understand why the other characters would be against it becuase "well its the most guranteed way to save eldia(which isnt true) but the reasoning is not based on logistics its based on morals and ethics. Its simply wrong to do so. These are just tye thoughts i had about it for awhile and honestly its impressive that this story can start a lot of intresting discussions and agruments about whats right and wrong
Zeke's plan wasn't half bad. It involves destroying marley bases, and it will remove the titan problem. The one deterent factor of everyone acting the way they are is because of fear and built up trauma. Fear of rumbling, fear of being invaded, fear of being overthrown.
Yeah I like his plan most, "the Eldian don't have to suffer anymore if they don't exist anyway", if Eren's friend on his side then the titan problem would last forever, and like Armin said next happen is a civil war in that little island. I don't know why all characters suddenly want to have kids that much and oppose his plan, and why only Zeke has this idea but not Karl Fritz?
I really do hate how fast everyone was to dismiss Zekes plan. By any objective metric if you were in the paths and could choose who won, the best would be Zeke. He was even fine with crushing Marley with the rumbling so that Eldians could live their last 100 years in peace. People just dismiss the fact that Eren is such a petulent baby even now at the end, destroying the whole world because he thought it would be better in his head. Thats quite litteraly what a child does.
If you watched the episode Marley plans to attack Eldia paradis island for fossil fuel (Cause they are out of energy sources and food shortage). Eren rumbling plan is a good idea to protect their people. if he doesn't attack the entire world, paradise might be devastated.
@@JustDONEItRN Im assuming you are yet to watch S4 Part 2 and you just finished part 1. If you watced season 2 you would know that Zeke explicitly agreed with the rumbling. His point was that the primary goal was to make the Edlians die out and they could use the rumbling to crush Marley to ensure their protection. You also forget that it was Hizaru who wanted the supplys
Eren could have done something like the 50 year plan. Or he could have used the founder to the destroy the worlds military and overthrow Marley, freeing the eldians from the internment zones then creating a new eldian government on Marley. He could have done the same with some other countries as well, who didn't wish to make peace with Paradise. He could have had started a new eldian Empire. (An actual empire not the thing Floch mentioned). But those require a lot of time and do not line up with some of Eren's principles, even though its a better option and result in less death. He had options but non of them he would have chosen as the full scale rumbling was what he truly wanted in the end.
Conflict would be forever present. It's just how nature works. But the Rumbling is far too big of a threat to be overlooked. Not just to humanity but to the planets Ecosystem itself. It's like the concept of Nuclear peace, balance of terror. The reason we don't fire nukes at each other is because we understand that it would kill us all and multiple other nations have nukes too. The same applies to Rumbling, if other nations has something that could cause damage to Paradise at that scale Eren wouldn't activate rumbling in fear of retaliation. Or Marely would use there weapons in fear of the rumbling. But this balance of terror breaks when only one party has this power which was the case with Rumbling. Eren could do global genocide without any equal threat present to himself. And Marley didn't have anything that could stop the rumbling so the only was to A. Either make something that can stop the rumbling if it happens. (Make aircrafts and precision weapons) B. Stop the people who can cause the Rumbling by killing them. Marley took option A and tried to get resources from beneath Paradise which caused this whole mess. One thing that gets on my nerves is when people say that Marley had it coming because they attacked Paradise, while completely ignoring the 2000 year of Torture, enslavement and rape of Marley's people done by Eldians.
Marley did have it coming though. If you want to use that logic to justify Marley's retaliation against Eldia then you have to again use it to explain why Eldia retaliated back. It doesn't actually matter who started it because its cyclic. This isn't me saying one side is more right than the other because that's all a matter of perspective. But it is quite clear Marley had this coming. You don't tortue Eldians, turn them into titans, and send them to kill the remaining Eldians on the island for years on top of years without expecting to be retaliated against, regardless of what happened to you thousands of years ago.
But look at world war 2. How usa nuked japan twice. Great example of how Eren didn't have to kill everyone. Especially whe you realise that not everyone outside paradise was their enemy.
@@Brug98 says that while Paradis gets bombed to oblivion by mankind. They definitely weren't all his enemies but Eren knew that and so did the US when the killed innocence during the bombing its just collateral damage at that point.
@@Brug98 bro I didn't say Eren did the same thing as the US. I am stating both knew they would be killing civilians considering most who would die from both attacks would be civilians. The reason US wanted to do that was to end the war with Japan swiftly and decisively. Eren wanted the same outcome but more of a total obliteration so Paradis would be safe but stopped at 20%.
I believe since the rumbling is set in a time period close to ww1, that Marley could have and should have used aerial bombardments from aircraft and airships, and also should have used mustard or chlorine gas.
While I don't disagree with your points on how things would eventually turn sour, this isn't a good argument against it the rumbling, Eren doesn't care for what happens with in the island, he cares about eliminating the threat outside of it, he acknowledges at multiple points that he is not creating peace, but only giving his people freedom from the outside world
I always saw it this way. Eren 'granted' freedom to the people of paradis. Doesnt MATTER how they use the 'granted freedom', that is of least concern to Eren He always wanted the 'freedom', 'freedom' to be OUTSIDE the walls. And he gives that 'freedom' to paradis.
The only way to achieve World Peace is to completely eliminate Free Will within humans. But this isn't Eren's goal. Eren isn't seeking World Peace, he's seeking the preservation of his friend's lives by killing off every last creature on the planet than isn't on the island and all humans who aren't Eldians. This isn't going to stop division and wars and grabs for power but it does leave 90% of the world left to be reclaimed by the surviving Eldians, at least providing a buffer of peace for his friends to live normal and peaceful lives until their deaths. Whatever happens after that, Eren does not care. Only the lives of his friends matter, not peace, not happiness, not even human lives.
you completely missed what eren was trying to achieve, he didnt want to just prevent future wars, he wanted to give the eldians freedom, the ability to do as they pleased without marley wanting to bomb them and shit
eren didnt care about eldia, he did the rumbling for purely selfish reasons just like how reiner broke into wall maria. they both did these terrible things for selfish reasons to make themselves feel good fully knowing that it is morally unforgivable. eren had an extremely childish view on freedom - he is constantly fixated on the idea of freedom without properly knowing what it was. eren did the rumbling for this idea of freedom - there would be nobody in his way if the entire world, aka his enemies, were gone. he was disappointed at what really was outside the walls, it wasn't what he wanted so he'll keep on chasing that true idea of freedom that his childish mind had. the only way to achieve this freedom is to keep moving forward and kill those in his way, and thats why he did the rumbling
@@Capinet so you're saying he killed the entire world for no reason? eren was not crazy, nor pure evil, he did what he did for his people and himself, what you say has no grounds on anything said in the series
@@joaquinruggiero3997 that was not what i said. eren did the rumbling so that he could be "free". he wanted to do it, he did the rumbling willingly. the way eren saw freedom was specifically the freedom that he saw in armin's book. it was an extremely childish and narrow-minded viewpoint of freedom. at the end of s3 where the scouts finally go to the ocean, the reason why eren asks if `they kill everyone on the otherside of the ocean, will they be free` is because eren sees the outside world as a blockade for his freedom. eren and reiner are direct parallels of eachother - this is why eren literally talks about why they are the same in liberio. reiner breached the walls because he wanted to, for purely selfish desires. and eren did the rumbling for the same reason, eren wanted to. this was the only way to reach the freedom that eren had been chasing for so long.
Few things people don't understand is that Eren never wanted to do the Rumbling to "end human conflict" forever. It's either letting his people go extinct, or wipe out the rest of the world. We do see Eren is contemplating about his future decision to do the rumbling when he is in Marley. He ask himself if it isn't better to allow Eldians die out and end the titan power conflict and struggle forever. But he choses the rumbling and refuse the other choice because that was the only choice to make so his friends will live in peace and their families too for many years to come, until many generation later humans will fight eachother again and probably wipe out Eldians anyway who knows, but on Eren's mind atleast his friends won't be alive then as having died by old age and have lived peaceful non-conflict filled lives too. Wierd and controversial analogy I will make but it's nearly the same, say if you are either black or white skinned, and you see a future where either White people entirely go extinct or all black people, what do you chose? your own "race" or the other. Not really a nice choice and very controversial and hectic debate to have but that is what Eren is having, that is Attack on Titan. Not really a easy choice to be forced and put onto you by a lot of different people memories in your mind and future. Also I'am a manga reader and can say most of this will be explained make sense what and why Eren is doing this all for.
From the ending of the last chapter we already know Erens plan only worked temporarily. War, hatred and destruction came right back some years later. It never ends.
I’m glad I actually stuck around and watched the video, at first I thought it was going to go a different direction but it ended up echoing my thoughts on what I feel is missing when Zeke and Eren’s plans are being discussed.
A very Christian concept in a world devoid of Christians. King Fritz was never going to make peace since he believed in strength alone. Ymir was originally a slave of the most deplorable kind to his people. Survival of the fittest does not really bring peace. Forgiveness is a foreign concept to this world. Eren's plan was to lose to his friends the entire time so that they could become Heroes and bring the peace that he couldn't.
plus no human are equal we are not identical twins so there will be differences, whether we like it or not thats why people like Eren are important people who cares about others and the future Paradise seems to heading towards the path of "caring each other" it will not remove inequality because inequality will always exist even if you radically support the stupid or something
Thank you for your analysis. I am still a bit puzzled to understand why a considerable amount of readers hate the manga ending. In my opinion, the ending, instead of showing that everything was in vain, showed how Armin and Historia managed to secure an armistice of more or less 80-100 years. After that, is possible that things once again fell through but at least they had the opportunity and time to find many other options to coexist with the outside world.
That is not the only problem with the manga. If I understand the issue correctly, it is that Eren is still a whiny, selfish brat who is portrayed as causing the rumbling because he wants to, and also very weirdly wishes to consummate his feelings with Mikasa which also infuriates those who wanted more time with Eren and Mikasa (because time was never given to explore that) and also those who wanted more time with Eren and Historia (simply because Eren was the only one who really supported Historia, and that too was left underdeveloped and unfulfilled unlike the possible Eren and Mikasa relationship). Most importantly, Eren literally put himself on this own path, meaning his years of scheming and character development are considered useless because he was fated to become the monster that started the rumbling, and not because he was a person who really observed a world that utterly hated Paradisians and Eldians and wished both to be wiped off the Earth and therefore was a person making a hasty impossible choice. Finally, Eren’s version of freedom is very likely not our version of freedom. It is likely that Eren’s version of freedom was very literally a sandbox world where there was nothing outside of the Walls and unimpeded exploration was possible, and the fact that there were oppressors only added to this regret instead of being the sole reason he committed himself to the Rumbling. Even if we take that Eren really hates the fact that everyone hates Eldians and Paradisians as the reason for his disappointment in what he saw outside the walls, he eventually comes to a form of freedom that is that everyone is allowed to do what they want including stamping out all the world that hates you (which are non-Eldian humans). That is, he still does not care about human rights as much as we thought he did. Those would be the arguments for hating the ending. Some do think Eren really did the best he could in securing Eldians a future in a world that would otherwise hate Eldians. Others focus on how perfectly circular the story is - war started the titans, and it will go on beyond the titans. Some think it is perfectly fine for Eren to have contradicting thoughts because this proves how complex the situation is, and freedom can be a mixture of altruism and selfishness. Some like it because it still proves Eren was the same securer of freedom he was in the beginning.
It's worth noting that the series makes no secret of the fact that the Rumbling wouldn't work and is being carried out by someone who is not of a grounded mind
Except, a large part of the division is due to a lack of resources. After the rumbling, there's vastly more resources and space available for Eldians to regain.
I think what may have needed to actually happen is Eren would’ve needed to manipulate Ymir’s memories/past and make it so that the Titan tree never existed in the first place which in turn would hopefully get rid of the Titans overall.
If gabi is the answer to the problem that Marley faces, then armin is literally a side character for no reason. I can’t say that plan is wrong but there could be flaws such as the assumption of understanding is the only answer to this problem. That the reality is that there are many problems, as you already laid out, to humanity than a singular person to solve everyone’s problems. In essence, it has to be the collaboration of everyone to make the best decision for humanity than to be selfish which is extremely hard to accomplish. I admire your point and argument against Eren and zeke. Both are taking in the wrong approach
I agree. That’s why I don’t understand those fans who said Eren is right! Rumbling is good. Understanding a character and acknowledging that a character do bad things are totally different. People understand the joker. But what joker did are horribly wrong. That’s a fact. Understanding Eren and his pain is good. But blindly saying he’s doing the right thing is… meh.
Okay ..... then what would you do if ypu were eren ? Never start the rumbling so you could be destroyed by the world ? Or just hoping for some peace and understanding from the marleyans who always hated the eldians without even accepting them as humans?
That's my whole point. Yeh I would do the same. But that doesn't mean I am right. Character do bad decisions or bad things and so do we. But we have to accept the fact that that's wrong. It's like saying we should kill all germans in holocaust because of what they did to jews. If I am jew, I would do it but that doesn't mean it is right. You just become what you fear.
His mental exercise is a good example of how despite being passionate and somewhat talented indeed In the end of the day he is still an amateur and can't come up with a better ending than an actual professional who actually built an amazingly written fictional world
Full disclosure I am strictly an anime watcher so I have no clue how the show will end but ever since part 2 of season 4 I’ve been saying Erin doesn’t want to do the rumbling but being able to know the future he must know that he will more than likely be stopped by both people of Marley and more importantly Paride will show the what’s left of the world that the “island devils” aren’t the devils that they were believed to be. We’ve seen gabby make this realization and I believe it will also happen on a larger scale. Of course not everyone will feel the same but I don’t believe many people will raise up to fight the very same people who actually saved the world unlike the Tybor family
Manga spoilers! It’s analysis videos like this that truly show how deep and complex attack on Titan is and why I love it so much. In the end, it was actually Armin that finally started the dialogue with the other side and achieved a peace that lasted for at least Gabi’s generation. There was no war after the rumbling until well after Mikasa’s death not just because the world was devastated and couldn’t continue, but because Armin and the gang brokered peace deals between Paradis and the world. Armin achieved Gabi’s dream of proving to the world that Eldians can also be good people by killing Eren in front of the Marleyan survivors. I would like to say though that you’re wrong about Eren and Zeke’s plans being the only option. The show demonstrates numerous times that Eren could’ve done a small scale rumbling, using just the Shiganshina wall Titans, to destroy the worlds military for a generation. That would’ve been sufficient for the world to agree to a non-aggression pact on Paradis’s terms. Hell, it would’ve demonstrated they had mercy, since the Eldians could have actually wiped them all out. But it was Eren that took the rumbling all the way. He was the one that didn’t have mercy. While the prioritization of destruction of the worlds military was a legitimate self defense measure, Eren’s continuation of the destruction of all civilization was purely selfish. As he himself explained, he did it because he was disappointed the world wasn’t an empty landscape like it was in Armin’s book. He was waiting for a world that had been untouched by humans for over a hundred years or more to be just his and his friends. And when he didn’t get that, he decided he’d just make the world that way.
Eren didn’t do that because the progression of tech was making titans outdated. Had the outside would been prepared the flying boat and a big enough bomb would easily kill the founding titan let alone anything developed later. The peace agreement would go the same way as it went with Karl Fritz, it would last until the outside world decided they could handle it. Also Eren wasn’t disappointed that the world wasn’t empty, he was disappointed that everyone out-there viewed him and his race as subhumans who need to be exterminated.
@@hibubgames7667 no, eren was disappointed because outside the walls didn't align with his idea of freedom, aka an undiscovered canvas of a world ready to be explored. that was the freedom eren sought after for so long, and he continues to chase it. that is why he did the rumbling, if he eliminates the 1 thing in the way of his idea of freedom - then he will truly be free to his eyes.
The goal in Eren's mind was for the Eldians of Paradis to just not be in fear of being wiped out and in the extra pages they got carpet bombed thanks to the rumbling being stopped
Please watch the video or careful analysis because as seen through out AOT even the Eldians are fighting among themselves so I highly doubt whatever peace you think the Rumbling will give. It's highly unlikely peace would be achieve as long humanity exist. There will always be a means to war simple as that for pro genocide people like you
I like how you linked this to philosophical concepts. However (haven't read the manga), it is not Peace Eren wants. And I don't think it is completely vengeance as well. Rather, he does what he has to do to protect the Eldians. Marley plan always has been to invade Paradis, take control of the founder for themselves, and enslave (eradicate?) the 'island devils'. Either Eren exterminates them all or they will (as we saw with the two public speeches in Marley - the first time Eren is in Marley, and also during Tybur's speech. Eren also knows he only has a few years left being a Titan, and once Marley acquires the Founder it is over for Eldians and the world. As such he chose to be the bad guy, and exterminates the whole world. To protect his friends and the people he cares about before it is too late. He never sought glory, or power, but to save everyone even if it costs him in life. Now obviously there are moral implications, and the threat of extermination doesn't justify genocide, but I believe this is the moral dilemma Eren went through.
I heard that in Foundation for Economic Freedom the opposite of war is not peace but trade and prosperity. There’s also a real world case where countries with a McDonald’s have not fought each other or have rarely fought each other.
Problem is, Eren's main motivation was his sick desire of Freedom so of course his plan doesn't make much sense i always felt he was using it as an excuse and justification to pursue his ambition
AAAAAAAAAAAAAH i wish you were a manga reader, I'll keep your channel in my aot list, I'll come back in October to see what you have to say. Very pertinent so far, that is
I mean if I was in Erens position obviously I would go along with his plan. It's us or them really. The focus is on survival at this point not "humanity will be this or that". If another faction of humans wants my faction dead I would do it to them 1st.
Have you seen the ending in the Manga? There is a scene about Paradis getting bombed by warplanes so the Rumbling clearly did not work as a solution to save Paradis. But I think we should look at the Rumbling not as a solution to move stuff forward but as a plot device that facilitates stuff like showcasing the themes of the story. Plus, I do not think Eren actually intended to Paradis to actually become a perpetual superpower forever or entirely eradicate its enemies. He could have seen all the futures and only decided the one where his friends could live their lives in peace without the titan's curse or fear of war. After that, Paradis and humanity as a whole could do whatever they want and that mattered not to him. This is my interpretation based on how Eren said that everything was done for his friends like Armin along with the fact that Eren did not take any concrete steps to fully stop Armin and his gang from preventing the rumbling beforehand despite having the power to see the future. I think he wanted to be stopped exactly at that point. Had the Rumbling go unopposed due to Eren keeping his friends contained early on, the Jaegarist faction would be powerful due to Floch being alive and would probably oppress them for not sharing their radical beliefs. In short, Eren did not care about Paradis or Humanity as a whole. He just wanted his friends to have a good life. After that, humanity could go **** themselves and he did not care. He probably saw that there was no way to save humanity as a whole from its typical warmongering nature and so chose the ending where his friends would have the best outcome than trying to make changes that were futile. That's why the manga ending feels cyclical with Paradis getting bombed but the tree that Ymir fell down into still remained and was again discovered.
The only way for everything to kind if stabiliza is to get rid of the titan power complety that is what eren is doing since the plan for his titan to be inherited by historia's child .
Eren activating the Rumbling literally took away the walls, so that's a non-issue. Also, if Eren was able to 100% the Rumbling, the entire planet would then belong to the Eldians of Paradis. They'd have way too much space to fight amongst each other, likely for thousands of years.
Ah yes all that dead sizzling land. If Eren 100% the rumbling than the only place that has any resources left like animals and plant life is in the island. Everything outside of Paradis is a dead zone.
and it will took 100 years after the population of humans started to be normal again and everyone starts making their own countries and fight because of different ideals and the great titan war will start again. The cycle never ends
Started binging the other day thinking “yo everyone says that show is amazing and it’s finally finished might as well do it” Turned out it’s not finished and I’m just here after hours of excitement and now? FALL!?
Completely missed the point which wasnt even that complex. Ofcourse there will always be division in the world. But since when is division for example between the rich and the poor the same as nazi level racism and ethnic cleansing. Eren was never gonna solve humanity nor was that ever his intention. He just wanted to protect and free his people from a world that literally saw them as devils, again not that complex
Eren's plan was simple, he just want "his friends life long and happy", he achieved his goal even though the cost is 80% of humanity. He knew, even rumbling can't archive "world peace"
I'm pretty sure that Eren's plan was not only for him to initiate the Rumbling, but to actually be stopped and killed well before he could complete it, by none other than a united force of Marlayan and Paradis Eldians (and even a non-Eldian pilot). Eren wasn't trying to ensure that Paradis would be prosperous forever; he was trying to create a collective trauma and legacy that would cement the consequences and horror of what can happen when hatred, war, oppression, and exploitation are taken too far. It's not that future wars won't happen, or that Paradis will remain united and idyllic; it's that everyone even generations from now will reflexively think about The Rumbling whenever they think about potentially pushing people too far. It will be a constant, eternal, and overwhelming reminder to all of humanity that no matter how much power you wield or how much control you think you have, the only way to ensure safety and prosperity is to not give other people enough reasons to want to threaten it by any means necessary. This holds as true for Paradis as it does the rest of the world. The Yaegerists who might by paranoid and militaristic in the future will also be forced to think about The Rumbling and the circumstances that led up to it and acknowledge that backing your enemies into a corner and/or putting a firm boot on their necks is likely to backfire spectacularly. Eren very clearly wanted things to play out the way they did. He wanted to be stopped and killed in the very manner in which he was--after all, he could have done many things to ensure that the efforts to stop him never had a chance (even without killing anyone, like telling Foch to just blow up the flying boat while the Yaegerists still had possession of it). Eren showed both Paradis and the rest of the world the consequences of us-or-them mentality taken to its most extreme. He became the enemy of both sides, in a way, and was stopped by an alliance of both sides who wanted to stop the logical conclusion from playing out to its bloody end.
Unless if Marley reverse engineers the first evangelions. They’re technically like titans except they need an entry plug (cockpit) inserted in the nape
The Rumbling would have been the best solution if it succeedes, but only if the Jeagerists are still around, and Eren survives. They'd be able to maintain order, and the founding titan will still be able to maintain total control over the Eldians, that's only if you want peace, but that isn't the goal of The Rumbling. As literally no one exists beyond Paradis, nothing is stopping people from using their freedom (the ultimate goal of The Rumbling is to grant Paradis freedom, not to make the world a better place. And in that, it DOES work.) The entire goal of The Rumbling isn't world peace, but rather to save everyone in the city, and his friends to grant them freedom, so I imgaine that Eren would remove the ability to titan shift from Eldians entierly. And in the goal of The Rumbling, it would 100% succeed, if successful, but if it fails, then the hatre cycle just continues on, no matter how much of the hate they blame on Eren, it would just be a Code Geass cope out, so I imagine that something would be different, and given how the world of AoT works, if The Rumbling fails, then sometime in the future, Paradis would be destroyed.
You did realize that if that succeed fighting among themselves would happen right like even if titan powers don't exist as you mentioned. I'm pretty sure time will come the Eldians among Paradis would just go to war among themselves and how did the empire fell because they started a war among themselves. So I highly doubt the Rumbling will be the total peace it will but for a time being. Because as long as humans exist will always have a means to war
It's so weird how this subtle theme was around in the manga yet most people didn't even notice it unless they really paid attention. Wisecrack already made a video about this back in 2017 before season 2 when people used to think the show was just about killing Titans.
"When it was just about killing titans" way to oversimplify it when the first 3 seasons has better world building and complexity than the post Timeskip season
@@FictionHubZA also it was so much more gritty and it also has more character development. In a few years time when everything is said and done, I think we will remember AoT's pre timeskip more fondly
@@zomebody5529 Yes I agree with that. I read the Manga a few years back and I didn't watch season 4. It just didn't capture my interest as much. The story felt like it kinda lost focus after that.
Just a few things I wanted to clear up. First of all I wrote this script from an anime viewers perspective with everything before s4 part 3 in mind. I apologize to anyone who thought this was an anime and manga complete analysis of the best ending possible, I was merely trying to speculate about what I thought the best outcome could be with the information I had. Because this is the case it may make the video seem very flawed in regards to the totality of the story, but I was just trying to predict a possible outcome and didn’t fully understand the solidified motivations for each character yet up to that point. I had a long list of explanations written up of me trying to correct my mistakes. In order to write up that list I read the manga ending to piece together the details I was not aware of. I think through this new explanation it is okay to omit that long list of explanations now because other people explain how the video is flawed in reference to the manga perfectly well throughout the comment section. Although some parts of this video misconstrued certain details, I hope you can understand the ideas of understanding and sympathy I was getting at. I believe these principles can lead to the best semblance of peace we as humans can achieve, and although absolute peace is not achievable and there will always be some amount of division and turmoil, at the end of the day we are all just human and hearing each other out and trying to understand each other is the best thing we can do to try to maintain order and some amount of unity, albeit imperfect. Please refrain from spoiling the ending of the manga for others in the comments, I was initially an anime only when I made this video, but through wanting to engage with comments I had a few close calls and decided to finish the manga for myself to avoid spoiling it accidentally. If you are going to discuss manga spoilers, please try to explicitly state that, and have a some sort of separation before you do so the anime onlys can have fun trying to predict the ending. Try to be respectful of one another and remember that at the end of the day we are all human. Thank you.
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Tf you wrote all
when it come to feeling like you have to do something
it really does not matter on right or wrong i feel that what there going for
with Eren grand speeches and over all stubbornness mix that in with his
angry and so on
the freedom Eren wanted is a free for all, not just people of Paradis Island considering how much power he has over Eldians
everyone is free to do what they want, they can try to stop him, kill him, whatever it is, but he also has that freedom as well
it doesn't really boil down to "understanding", but "freedom"; the survey corps fellows thinks freedom does not grant you the right to "do whatever you want" such killing and taking away the freedom of others, Eren thinks the opposite and takes the word at face value
I hope the anime takes the 2 endings from the manga and combines them into 1 ending
Like Erwin said after they overthrew the government "humans will fight until the day there is only 1 or less left of them"
That's correct, we see it in real life as well
Honestly Erwin saying that pretty much sumed up what Eren had to and we saw the reason why in the end of the manga
As a professional said
As long as there are 2 people left on the planet, someone's gonna want someone dead
Thing is humans also are hard-wired to seek groups and collectives to survive better, like packs of wolves or other animal herds. We form large groups to protect ourselves better from the other groups we see as worse, and when that worse group is gone you start to see more division.
@@thunderspark1536 The circles get smaller basically. In reality its more accurate to say that people are in various circles of different sizes and their actions depend on which circle the person is consciously aware of at the moment(or which they are biased towards)
Eren didn't care about what happens within the island, as long as the Eldians living there had the freedom to choose their own future, whether that future is good or bad, it didn't matter. That's the whole point of Eren's look on freedom.
He didn't care about prosperity, he only cared about freedom.
EXACTLY he cared about them being freed from oppression and having the option to choose
so basically eren brings freeDOOM and democracy to people outside paradis 😂
Although that was the outcome that Eren desired, and technically (at least as far as the anime is currently concerned) his plan is coming to fruition, I am more criticizing the naivety of valuing the unadulterated freedom of the Eldian people over wishing for at least some amount of understanding between them. The newest part of the anime really started to harp on the fact that he has little to no free will in the matter on his own, which also further explains why he is so hard set on valuing freedom above all else and makes it easier to be sympathetic towards his ideals. I just think that a little degree of freedom being exchanged, for at least a small amount of understanding amongst the Eldian people is a worthwhile trade off, considering the dire consequences humanity endured with complete individual freedom and a lack of understanding of others.
@@animeapologist Have you read the manga? because if you have you would a clearer undestanding of why Eren did what he did. Plus even as seen in the lastest episode that he cannot change the future so he has no choice of following that cruel path to freedome.
@@gabrielemond5308 He can't change the future but that was a future he chose. It's made clear that, although he can't change it, he wouldn't even if he could. Knowing what he knows through the Founder's power, he would still go through with the rumbling. He's obviously not happy about it, but he wouldn't lie down and accept the death of his people and, most importantly, his friends.
"When Titans were the greatest threat, Titans were the enemy. When countries were the greatest threat, countries were the enemy. For as long as people hold firm to different beliefs, there will always be an enemy."
~ Attack on titan: The Final Season episode 27 mid-info card
And I thank the staff for writing that. Thats a very succint explanation of AoT's theme of conflict
titans werent a threat they are danger
Yep which means the true enemy is within ourselves which means to ensure peace mutually assured destruction of all human life must be executed. That way only one act of cruelty is needed to stop this cursed cycle
Titans didnt hold a different believe. That third sentence is a non-sequitor.
_threat_ is what makes an enemy. Percieved or not, logical or illogical.
@@pittyconor2489 no I am the danger.
A very mature take. The story literally mentions over and over that people will always find a way to divide themselves into "us vs them" even if the Titans were gone but that goes over so many peoples' heads for some reason
The story lol. The story's dogshit.
War never changes.
@@ashleighchance9420 it changes but never ends
Eren’s goal was never to stop all war or human conflict. He specifically wanted to end all hatred toward Eldians, protect Paradis from the world, and create the outside world he saw in Armin’s book.
@@ashleighchance9420I read that in the guy from fallout 4's voice 💀
Yes the show is trying to show us that rumbling is the only way, but only because the characters thinks that, doesn't mean that it is actually true. Yep what you said is absolutely correct, if Eren kills everyone outside Paradise, the hatred would not be gone, they would fight each other. But Eren doesn't care about that. He just wants to wipe out everyone outside paradise. So technically his plan can successed.
Exactly. The keyword is freedom. Eren wants freedom, not peace.
That's partly what led to the downfall of the Eldian Empire in the first place. When there were no more enemies to fight and conquer, they turned on each other.
A very realist take, and it's a good take at that.
I think world peace is not the goal for the rumbling, it's to end the cycle of hate against the eldians
@@ashleighchance9420 difference here is. Elian's of the past were tired of dominating the rest of humanity so they begun infighting. This version of eldians are being oppressed by eldians. So their lack of enemies would institute freedom for hundreds of years at least. As the population grows and trees on the outside world begin growing again they will move out there and hundreds of years later we would have some bigger diversity. Every land animal has gone extinct though so they'd have to bring their cattle to populate the outside word as well as seeds. Erens rumbling did more than just kill humans. It was a mass extinction event for every animal and plant on the planet
@@erendripaeger9875 Eren never did it because of freedom, to save his friends or end the curse, he did because thats what he wanted to do. its his nature.
The Rumbling isn’t meant for universal peace. It was meant to ensure the safety of the citizens of Paradis from the forces beyond the sea who saw them as an island of devils. Civil Disputes within Paradis would also fall under the same freedom Eren mentions when his friends try to stop the rumbling.
It's funny that it parallels socialist year 1 thinking and so many of the nations in the show are socialist style portrayals and ideology being displayed.
@@yournumberonepal Socialism is about worker rights and struggles of rights under Capitalism. At no point were worker rights specifically involved in Attack on Titan, nor was Capitalism. The story is more fundamentally about the broad struggle for freedom. There is a little bit of surface level critique of class, but class struggle itself is as old as slavery.
And the artstyle and ideology of the military is very much Nazi Germany.
Under Nazi Germany, a theory called Social Darwinism drove their racist deology. This theory applies the idea of natural selection and survival of the fittest to human society. This means different groups of people compete for resources and power, and that some are more fit or superior than others. Nazis used this theory to claim themselves to be the superior race and all others were inferior, in order to justify inequality, imperialism, racism, eugenics, and genocide.
In AoT, the Marleyians believe the Eldians are devils to justify inequality, imperialism, racism, eugenics, and genocide. Here, the similiarities are the dehumanization of "the other" in order to justify immoral acts against them.
@@deepseadarew6012 No, that is Marxism. Socialism is the man being made aware of his oppression. In Marx variety of socialism this manifests as the proletariat being made aware of their oppression by the bourgeoisie, basically class oppression. In Nazism this was manifest as racial oppression with the oppressor being the Jews. This is the part of socialism I was focused on as the concepts stem from more modern Critical Theory where the oppressor and oppressed are examined. The parallels in this story would start from a similar perspective, the concepts of oppressor and oppressed in AoT are quite clear as are they are similar to many historical events though they were sort of meshed together from different time periods.
Lmao Eren did the Rumbling just for the war between two sides equal and for his friends to be the equivalent to the Tybur family and for the rest of the world to see them as heroes
@@Omega-jg4oq "Even if I wasn't aware of how this would all end with you guys stopping me... I still would've reduced everything in this world to dust... I wanted to turn all the earth into a brand new land." (Eren, Chapter 139)
Okay... the rumbling was meant to be a tool for Eren to save Paradis NOT END HUMAN CONFLICT. Eren's plan could lead to peace if he manipulated Eldians' minds into being more sympathetic or more inclined to peace which is something Eren does not like because Eren wants them to free to choose for themselves. Its true humans need to understand each other like Gabi in order to be more sympathetic but that's not always the case since all people are different and sympathy ranges in terms of how much an individual has for their fellow man. Eren shows how he understands but has no choice because there so many people and the problem is more complex than his own misunderstanding... Eren doesn't do genocide out of Hate or anger but out of helplessness/little to no other options and survival/preservation.
Paradis never hated mankind but their discovery of their reputation among humanity is what made them hate them too. Eren using the founder to change Eldians would be the better option than Zeke's with humanity because humanity cannot change unlike Eldians.
The founder could create a utopian society for the Eldians but at the cost of some of their freedom which is a fair trade off since Laws take away freedom from humans for their own safety and betterment.
In conclusion the rumbling worked but Eren didn't plan on solving human conflict even though he could but it would just go against his ideology (Eren is the symbol of Freedom after all and Freedom is the opposite of order/control but both can be comprised since he is Human at the end of the day not a God).
I was more analyzing the irony in the ideology of his plan and how it may eventually incur far too much suffering upon those he loves, compared to the freedom he thinks a possible immense amount of suffering is worth. It makes sense that he has the desire to bestow freedom upon the Eldian people, given the horrible circumstances that tortured him his whole life, and the fact that his fate is predetermined to be the arbiter of freedom is also a great touch of irony by the author. Although his plan is not flawed in the sense that he is unable to carry it through and achieve what he wants, his ideology is the result of being forced to live within a system of complete control, and wishing to completely give back that control to the rest of the Eldian people. But through giving all power to the peoples individual freedoms, he is actually opening up the best opportunity for another authoritarian regime to rise and oppress once again (horseshoe theory). I guess what it really comes down to for me is Eren being okay with history going down the same path of destruction again for the sake up freedom, but since “the game” (Eren’s life) was rigged in the way that it was I get why he had such a naive view of freedom.
@@animeapologist well that's one of the problems I have with the ending... Eren sacrificed everything for practically nothing... he didn't even discover that the freedom he sought-after wouldn't even make him happy. If Eren actually wanted to solve Paradis' problem he can but first Eren must deal with his own issues such as freedom.
I thought in his relationship with Mikasa he would discover a different type of freedom (instead of the freedom to do what you want why not the freedom that comes from peace... the freedom to live which is what I thought Isayama was foreshadowing as both characters gave each other's cruel worlds colour and happiness/purpose to live for each other) when one is happy and in love they are in peace look at Grisha when he married Carla.
Love helps people find meaning in their lives though not in others'. it could help Eren decide what is truly important in life rather than the basic desire of his young self. Instead of that Isayama just repeats the cycle again instead of leaving it to a conclusion when a conclusion was within reach.
@@triton5336 Umm so what is your solution to Pardis island problem do nothing if that happens than Marley and the rest of the world will invade and kill everyone on Pardis island, after that they will take all of the resources they have and after technology caught up to the power of Titans all Eldains around the world will die be infertile or most likely be turned into a Titan to make one last use what of them, you can criticise someone plan all you want however you must come out with a different plan as well.
@@hightower2141 the solution is the rumbling lol... I didn't say its the wrong solution. However there is more to it than that to truly save Paradis.
Isayama could have only done 2 things... 1 make Mikasa side with him during the Rumbling out of her own free will instead of do what Eren wanted which was for her to kill him to stop the rumbling. Or 2 Make Eren go for the full rumbling with no plans of stopping but then Mikasa and Armin help him realize there maybe another way... Fake Eren's death by Armin's hand so humanity will consider diplomacy. Eren would be tired of the killing but also knows Armin is good with such things as when he trusted Armin to stop the Garrison Regiment from blowing them up. Eren leaves with Mikasa and Armin plays Hero or rather Helos. Ymir could have learned what real love is from Eren and Mikasa, Eren freed her and in more ways than one so gives him one last request: remove Titans from the world, but she won't just do that she will combine all shifters into Eren and leave their powers Dormant inside him till he dies. Eventually war will begin, Mikasa and Eren dies the cycle continues but this time things will change with Eren in the paths ready to fight one last time... once and for all.
These Ends would have worked better than the garbage we got.
@@triton5336 Rest
This video helps reinforce the idea that interaction between groups leads to less conflict, not more. You learn that they're just people, who need food, happiness, and a life to do what they want.
Which is why Armin and Historia are the true heroes here.
"Who need food and happiness"
Specially food when it comes to Sasha, she REALLY, REALLY needed food lol.
For some people yes, most people just can't be bothered to attempt to understand others
@@ashleighchance9420 Armin is a villain, he doomed his island, Historia at least acceded to Erens plan.
@@jimmyehlschlaeger3624 Eren was making the case for saving Armin over Erwin, this was before Eren had access to future memories. Also, season 1 episode 6, the Mikasa flashback I believe, might be episode 7, shows that Eren doesn't consider people who attack his friends as human. So even in the event Eren was discussing it in terms of the future, Eren doesn't consider the rest of the world in humanity. Eren was so fanatical on this point he doomed his mom to bring about the future after gaining access to the paths.
Couple of issues.
- Founder can only rewrite history via memories of Eldians, not the rest of the world.
- Eren had no interest in peace. He did, ideally, want to protect his friends. But the Rumbling was more about his ideal of freedom (which is very specific and not what most of us generally think of as freedom).
Zeke was the idealist that was acting somewhat altruistically. Eren's motivations are driven by his own personal desire for his twisted view of freedom first. Protecting Paradis is a secondary factor. He also never mentions anything about any peace. Creating peace and protecting something are very different.
Zeke's plan is to end titans and all the terrible things that come from that power, at no point is he portrayed to be gullible enough to believe there would be no conflict.
A world without titans is better than a world with. There's no reason to say; because bad things will still happen it's pointless to do anything about problems.
i love this comment
Yeah , Zeke's plan was better than eren's plan
@@arham1283 In what way? Zeke was planning to genocide all Eldians. In what way is that better?
@@yournumberonepal actually no , Zeke's plan is to used the Founding Titan's powers to make all Eldians sterile so they could no longer have kids, and the Power of the Titans would end ......the eldians still can live peacefully for the next 50-100 yrs until they all die ......they just can't reproduce, killing someone who isn't born yet is not considered as genocide
@@arham1283 You may want to do a look up on genocide. Forced sterilization of a group of people is genocide.
you are right, but eren doesn't care about creating peace, he simply wants to stop his people from being killed by those in the outside world
Peace is literally impossible no matter the outcome that's why I always said it's about survival
Which is just utter bs anyways since eldians will continue killing themselves so they're gonna split and we all know what happens when 1 race/country splits. They just create a new country and viola, another war starts. His intentions are rooted from good but it solves nothing in the end therefore its pointless.
@@gudhaxer41343 tell me in any other outcome will there not be fighting or conflict? Is there a situation where everybody lives in peace and harmony with no issues whatsoever? No it solves the targeted discrimination of him and his race of people that was the root cause of going to extremes because the opposition was on the extreme and plotting complete destruction. They may and will fight but they will survive they would eventually build the outside world. People always say that as if any other option automatically equals no conflict even in season 3 it was a civil war of sorts
He also holds no nationalism about “his people” either. Of course, he doesn’t not care about them but the special says there’s more to it than just saving Eldia.
@@mud5728 then why did he gave *to save eldia* speech during declaration of rumbling??
Manga spoilers..... this is exactly how I interpret the extended ending of the manga. Some people view it as the rest of the world taking revenge for the rumbling and that Eren was right all along, but my interpretation is that Isayama is saying that conflict will always exist, as long as people have the ability to assign themselves to groups there will always be a reason for one group to dislike another. This is why I think Armin is the best character in the series. He knows that achieving peace and understanding is a massive undertaking that may very well be doomed to failure, but trying to do so is the best any of us can ever do.
@ushnikmitra and by "near future" you mean hundreds of years later, not to mention he was already handicapped by Eren having done the rumbling. Also I will admit that one line thanking Eren was dumb, even Isayama has admitted that
You're right and I hate it when those Yaegrists say "Look at the last chapter and you know Eren/ Floch was right". If Eren's plan succeeds, it's just a more horrible future, a civil war with Titan shifter. And I think Paradise is not innocent in the extended ending, in the last chapter we're informed that the Yaegrist took over the country and united all people because they feared being revenged by the outsider or something, there must be some new genocides or wars outside the wall before the rest of the world could finally fighting back.
@ushnikmitra Lol I never said genocide on an island is justified, it's just less unjustified than on the world, you are distort my words. But I think I have wrong memory about Isayama's favourite character, thanks for remind me.
Eren doesn't care about peace he just wanted his people to live and be free.
Armin even said that the war for power will just be reduzed to a smaler scale on the Island.
The events after the rumbling even show another war with people who are pro Eren and anti Eren.
Like many have said, neither Zeke or Eren ever claimed that their plans would bring about world peace, they were meant to accomplish other things entirely.
Also, when I clicked on this video I thought it would be something about how the titans from the inner walls didn't trample everyone inside the walls.
@@jimmyehlschlaeger3624 If I recall correctly, the titans were moving in straight lines, still, some people died
I agree to this. If you'd recall the great titan war, this was same dilemma. "They ran out of people to fight, so they fought among themselves".
Eren's goal wasn't enternal peace
There was already division in the anime between the Yeagarists and the Paradis military. When the “heros” of the story had to chose a side; even though they knew what Eren was trying to do, they still decided to support him on his quest when they could have actually stopped him before Eren implemented his plan.
Who? And when?
As others mentioned here before... Rumbling would work perfectly in accordance to actual goal it was launched for. Goal was securing Paradis freedom from outside threats, not some eternal peace. This peace talk is so often brought up by fandom and amusingly enough also few characters in story itself, and all of them utterly ignore actual context behind Rumbling.
The "wish" wouldn't affect anyone outside of the Subjects of Ymir. Unless something's up when Ramzi saw Ymir before he was stepped on by a titan.
It wouldn't be a long term solution, but I am struggling to see exactly what other options he has available. Remember, the people of Paradis are NOT equal to the people outside of it. Zekes plan is essentially suicide and so I can see why that's unfavorable, but Armin's plan wouldn't work either, Even if Eren crushed the global military alliance, people would still fear the Eldians and their ability to turn into titans. No matter how long it took, people would look to undermine their strength and destroy Paradis, whether they had to do it through subterfuge or building up even better armies, or what have you. The first king's plan of just keeping the two species of human separate also didn't work... At least with Eren's plan, Everyone would have the ability to become titans, which would put humanity back on a more or less even playing field (The titan shifters would still have OP amounts of power though) Zeke's plan would also achieve this with similar results, putting humanity back on an even playing field, but again, I understand why suicide isn't a great option for him.
but it isn’t out of the question that the people of paradis in the near future could fight amongst themselves but it definitely see your points and reasoning.
So are you saying in a sense that Paradis should join Marley Mid-East War on the side of the Allies? That's what I interpreted here because to me, talking with Marley is never going to work. Why? The majority of Marley just hated the Eldians too much and Marley always behaved as this "man who is going to threaten anyone to get whatever he wanted because he has guns".
The reason why I think the Mid-East Allied Forces are willing to accept help from Paradis by the time of the Battle of Fort Slava is because any help will be appreciated at that point and because both the Mid-East and Paradis shared a common enemy.
Initially I thought Eren’s best option was what I said, in that he could use the power of the founding Titan to rewrite history. When I worked on the script for this video it was around the time the trailer for season 4 part 3 dropped, so the series hadn’t yet harped on how bottlenecked Eren’s fate was and how little free will he had since I am an anime only viewer. I thought he could use the founding Titan’s power to coerce Ymir to wish for understanding and acknowledgement of differences amongst the Eldian people from the future. It doesn’t really seem that way as the anime portrays it now, so I hope his friends are able to convince him to allow Eldians to give up a small amount of freedom for understanding post-rumbling, so that they and their descendants have a better shot at a semblance of prosperity instead of enduring the horrible fate King Fritz bestowed upon Ymir’s people and the world for 2,000 years.
@@animeapologist There is one thing missing in your plan by the way. How will Eren be fed to Gabi? Not only Eren will be resisting that plan but I can see Armin and Mikasa also resisted such a plan as well.
“cause at the end of the day, long as there's two people left on the planet, someone is gonna want someone dead.”
-sniper tf2
That's exactly what Erwin and Eren said when Pxis asked them about the story of enemies uniting to take down another common enemy. There would always be conflict as long as there are two or more people in the world. Eren knows this already. The only reason he's proceeding with the rumbling is because he has already seen the future and knows how it will turn out. He's just tired of carrying the burden of sins that were committed years before he was born and wants his friends to stop him by killing him. He believes he'll only be free when he's dead. You can't blame the guy tbh
He vowed to kill ALL of the Titans and then he became one. Quite the conundrum he found himself in season 1, don't you think? Yet he named to actually pull it off in the end, at least temporarily. 😕
eren didnt go into the rumbling wanting to be killed, he went in it fully intending to wipe out the world but instead saw a future memory of the alliance killing him, which he's kinda forced to just succumb to. or atleast thats what i think
The thing is, The Founding Titan isn't some magical lamp. It doesn't grant wishes, nor could it just rewrite all of Eldia's history. The amount of things Eren could change were limited purely to those of the Attack Titan themselves, something that didn't come about until long after Eldia started becoming the warmongers history knew them as; and even beyond that, we don't know how many "generations" back the Attack Titan's power functions. It could be limited to two, or it could be more.
On top of this, Eren never cared about what came after. All he cared about was ensuring that Eldians had *a* future at all, because he couldn't dictate what that future would look like. The whole conflict revolving around the Founding Titan is a perfect example of moral ambiguity once you look at it beyond the context of the acts taken themselves. Neither side is in the right, because both outcomes end up in the same place down the road. The only difference is who are the ones left standing to fight each other.
The one person who had a chance to change the course of history was Willy Tybur during the Declaration of War, but he didn't out of fear that Eren would wipe out everyone else. This fear then started that declaration, and thus forced Eren's hand as the choice between Paradis or The World was made for him. Had no declaration been made and the world chose to leave Paradis be, The Rumbling wouldn't have happened at all; or at least not in Eren's lifetime. After that, it would have all come down to what action Zeke took.
I believe that Eren's concept of freedom actually ties all the way back to Ymir, not just the current Eldians. She was a slave and, even after gaining the founding Titan, remained under the control of the original Eldian king. Neither she nor her descendants ever had freedom; instead, they were bred and forced to consume the carcasses of their parents in order to maintain and expand their use by the Eldians for power (and later the Marlayans, who only appreciated their utility as Titans and Titan-shifters). As Eren appealed to Ymir in S4 E21, "You are not a slave. It's your choice. You have a choice," with this extending to her descendants - representing, for the first time, freedom.
It appears that we are conflating freedom with peace. Notice, at the end of Season 3, Eren did not ask if the people of Paradis would have "peace" if they defeated all of their enemies across the sea; he asked if they would finally be "free." Whether you use that freedom to live in peace or destruction is up to you; but Eren's goal is to finally give the subjects of Ymir the freedom to make that choice.
The rumbling would specifically ensure that for a while, a foreign invader wouldn't come to paradis with the intention of murdering most if not all the inhabitants. Even if infighting occurred afterwards it wouldn't likely compare to what would happen if a coalition of other nations decided to come to the island with hostile intent. Of course there would be no plan that would result in a utopia, these plans were only hatched in the interest of avoiding worst case scenarios. They were also created as short term solutions, of course there will never be any guarantee that peace continues in the long term. (Mind you this isn't to say that killing off 85% of the worlds population is in any way justifiable).
This video misses the point of the rumbling. World peace is not the goal of anyone in the entire show. Eren doesn’t want his entire race to be systematically exterminated by the United Nations of the entire planet. A 100% rumbling would 100% end the persecution of Eldians, that’s a fact. Because everyone would be an Eldian
Did you read the manga?
@@dragospop202 yeah
This is so obvious that I can’t believe this video was made. How do you manage to completely misinterpret the goal of the rumbling when it’s literally repeated multiple times throughout the season by Eren himself.
@@kamilmagomedov2070I think it's y'all who are misinterpreting, the question this Video is asking is, why is it any better if Eldians kill Eldians instead of non eldians, the whole reason the conflict between Paradise and the rest of the world exists isn't because what happened 2000 years ago, or even 100 years ago, no, it's human nature, the suffering in the world of AoT was created by the human nature of conflict and violence, and taking out the other side doesn't make a difference, because by that logic, the next conflict that arises should also end the same way, with one side getting wiped out
If the reason for the rumbling was to prevent injustice from happening because an entire race of people were getting wiped out for sins they didn't commit, then is it just to do the same you don't want done to you?
It doesn't matter if suffering continues to exist, but the diving line between Eldians and other people will always overshadow every other type of discrimination, which will have Eldians under constant threat and vice versa. Another potential solution would be to gradually convert the entire world into Eldians, through marriage slowly humans could eventually have Eldian blood, ending this type of discrimination (although highly unlikely as a realistic solution).
But that aside, to have Eldians prevail as the dominant race would in fact be the ideal outcome, considering the founding titan is literally akin to a god, and so are the 9 titans. By providing good education to those who inherit these Titans, and adding in the mix the memories of previous users, it's as if these people may have already lived more than 1 lifespans and hold greater knowledge that could be used for the greater good. Not to mention the limitless instant communication of the Founding Titan and the ability to control every other Eldian, it's like a sort of evolved ant society.
I think what most people don't understand, including you, is that the show shifts it's priorities. At first it was about claiming lost lands from titans, then it was about uncovering the truth about titans which led to uncovering the truth about the world, which then shifted towards peace talks and treaties, and then finally shifted towards solving a problem when all else failed. Let's be real here, for the Marleyans the problem was Eldians, and vice versa. By the end of season 4, it was deemed an all out war with both parties pretty much wanting to annihilate the other. Eren, through the rumbling simply won the war.
Gabi wasn't the only person filled to the brim with hatred for the Island devils. Reiner was the same way. Did his values change after returning home from the island? Yes. Did he change his goals though? Nope. The island was still the problem. If he chose the island he'd be turning his back on his family. If he chose his family, that'd mean killing his friends on the island. Reiner couldn't change his goals after living on the island for four years and Gabi is suddenly the perfect next of kin after spending a week on the island? So all things considered, I don't really see how Gabi being Eren's successor solves anything.
Erens goal wasnt to end all human violence. His goal was to stop the active racism and attempt at genocide on his people.
Something that i think is interesting in the world of AOT, is that, as long as humanly was borne that was always war, there was never a time in history that humanity was in peace and i think that's why character like Eren see peace as a unreachable dreeam, it's just a too foreign concept for them.
Uhhh humanity is in its most peaceful era
Eren just making sure his ppl r free, what they choose to do with their freedom is not his concern
Humans will argue and fight no matter the circumstanves as it’s in their nature
Zeke's plan at this point it was the only plan getting rid of the power of titans. No other plan offered another solution
Attack on titan have continously mentioned how as long as titans exist, there will be no peace, but not as to say that if titans disappeared, peace would be fundamental after that.
But the whole point was for the inequality to dissappear. The series also showed us how after Marley ended the wars with other nations, then everyone could sit at the table speaking about diplomacy as equals. But with eldians it was not the same since there was an inherent fear of the titan powers that existed
Therefore Zeke as well as many eldians wished for eldians to have never been born at all but that would be a big analogy for the power of titans. Of course eternal peace is unachievable and I think Zeke knows that, but Zeke at the time of the anime was the only one who proposed a solution that would get rid of titan powers, with the cost being all of the eldian future. He wouldn't kill all the eldians currently alive but would peacefully with the threat of the rumbling have the titans dissappear hence that inherent fear to dissappear
I am not mentioning erens plan cause it seems simple but many of the things that it covers are still at this point manga only and I don't want to spoil anything
Funny enough Kiyomi actually stated this exact problem to floch even if the rumbling did succeed
Floch knew this point, which is why he was so adamant about killing outsiders. He knew they'd be the first of the eldain empire to fight back and he wanted to kill them for it. Even in his final moments he begged them to not kill Eren as it would doom eldia. Previously he was calling them traitors but in his final moments he talked to them as people. He told them why they shouldnt go and with his final breath tried to persuade them. I can't understand why people hate floch man
@@JojoSmacks Floch gave everything for his people and nation rather then some vague impossible ideal, he is the opposite of the childish comic book hero
@@JojoSmacks people hate floch because he gleefully mocked innocent people to their faces that their loved ones were being massacred and then executed them for refusing to kiss his ass, it's not that complicated. he became EXACTLY as bad as the people he hated and wanted dead. he also decimated the military- his own people- so the eldians on paradis wouldn't have been safe from his little dictatorship either.
@@JojoSmacks The Eldian Empire was terrible and shouldn’t be brought back. Floch definitely had fascist tendencies, that’s why people don’t like him. His way of thinking was VERY black and white
@@cats1177 except those haters can't even deny the fact that the story is presented in a black and white scenery and the diplomacy between paradis and outer world is completely off-screened coz author have no idea about how to justify his hero team
It wouldn’t guarantee their safety from each other after the event, true, but I don’t think that was the point. If that’s how it turned out, at least they had the freedom of choice to do so. While the world was persecuting them, they had no freedom. They had little to no control over their destiny. That’s all Eren wanted for them and his friends. Even at the cost of the rest of the world’s freedom. And while it can’t guarantee their safety from each other, it guarantees their safety from everyone else. It’s a horrible necessity, but it was the only way to 100% guarantee the race of Eldia survived.
Bruh. It’s not erens problem if eldians fight each other. He doesn’t care. It’s not Zekes concern if other non eldians fight non eldians. Their goals weren’t to create absolute peace.
Congratulations, you argued that the rumbling wouldn't work because it doesn't do something that it isn't supposed to due. Eren isn't trying to end all conflict, he is trying to end the specific conflict which is threatening to wipe out his people
The rumbling isn't about some higher ideal of peace, it is merely about survival. Eldia would likely face new conflicts after the rumbling, but at least they would be alive to see them.
The world after the rumbling may be better, or it may simply be another hell. Fact is the only way to know is to live to see it.
When this anime started (I know manga was first but I was a kid when it started) I was wondering where the Titans were coming from, like a factory I thought sorta like fallout FEV mutants, and years years later, it's now a giant debate about philosophy and human actions, I never would have thought of this going so far into the future.
Im glad yt recommend videos like this. I have to sub
Heres the thing. My theory is that ut would only work if the rumbling gets complete but if it doesnt it would just make the situation worst. There prob could have ended up being peace negotiations between nations they just need time and patience. Like real life. Also the show have said multiple time the rumbling wouldnt stop wars there will still be wars with the people of the walls. Also eren is 100% not justified and the story i think is def on the same opinion as me and some may not understand why the other characters would be against it becuase "well its the most guranteed way to save eldia(which isnt true) but the reasoning is not based on logistics its based on morals and ethics. Its simply wrong to do so.
These are just tye thoughts i had about it for awhile and honestly its impressive that this story can start a lot of intresting discussions and agruments about whats right and wrong
Zeke's plan wasn't half bad. It involves destroying marley bases, and it will remove the titan problem. The one deterent factor of everyone acting the way they are is because of fear and built up trauma. Fear of rumbling, fear of being invaded, fear of being overthrown.
Yeah I like his plan most, "the Eldian don't have to suffer anymore if they don't exist anyway", if Eren's friend on his side then the titan problem would last forever, and like Armin said next happen is a civil war in that little island. I don't know why all characters suddenly want to have kids that much and oppose his plan, and why only Zeke has this idea but not Karl Fritz?
I really do hate how fast everyone was to dismiss Zekes plan. By any objective metric if you were in the paths and could choose who won, the best would be Zeke. He was even fine with crushing Marley with the rumbling so that Eldians could live their last 100 years in peace. People just dismiss the fact that Eren is such a petulent baby even now at the end, destroying the whole world because he thought it would be better in his head. Thats quite litteraly what a child does.
Exactly! Eren never grew up since the day his mother day. He was always 10.
If you watched the episode Marley plans to attack Eldia paradis island for fossil fuel (Cause they are out of energy sources and food shortage). Eren rumbling plan is a good idea to protect their people. if he doesn't attack the entire world, paradise might be devastated.
@@JustDONEItRN Im assuming you are yet to watch S4 Part 2 and you just finished part 1. If you watced season 2 you would know that Zeke explicitly agreed with the rumbling. His point was that the primary goal was to make the Edlians die out and they could use the rumbling to crush Marley to ensure their protection. You also forget that it was Hizaru who wanted the supplys
Eren could have done something like the 50 year plan. Or he could have used the founder to the destroy the worlds military and overthrow Marley, freeing the eldians from the internment zones then creating a new eldian government on Marley. He could have done the same with some other countries as well, who didn't wish to make peace with Paradise. He could have had started a new eldian Empire. (An actual empire not the thing Floch mentioned). But those require a lot of time and do not line up with some of Eren's principles, even though its a better option and result in less death. He had options but non of them he would have chosen as the full scale rumbling was what he truly wanted in the end.
Conflict would be forever present. It's just how nature works. But the Rumbling is far too big of a threat to be overlooked. Not just to humanity but to the planets Ecosystem itself.
It's like the concept of Nuclear peace, balance of terror. The reason we don't fire nukes at each other is because we understand that it would kill us all and multiple other nations have nukes too. The same applies to Rumbling, if other nations has something that could cause damage to Paradise at that scale Eren wouldn't activate rumbling in fear of retaliation. Or Marely would use there weapons in fear of the rumbling.
But this balance of terror breaks when only one party has this power which was the case with Rumbling. Eren could do global genocide without any equal threat present to himself.
And Marley didn't have anything that could stop the rumbling so the only was to
A. Either make something that can stop the rumbling if it happens. (Make aircrafts and precision weapons)
B. Stop the people who can cause the Rumbling by killing them.
Marley took option A and tried to get resources from beneath Paradise which caused this whole mess.
One thing that gets on my nerves is when people say that Marley had it coming because they attacked Paradise, while completely ignoring the 2000 year of Torture, enslavement and rape of Marley's people done by Eldians.
Marley did have it coming though. If you want to use that logic to justify Marley's retaliation against Eldia then you have to again use it to explain why Eldia retaliated back. It doesn't actually matter who started it because its cyclic. This isn't me saying one side is more right than the other because that's all a matter of perspective. But it is quite clear Marley had this coming. You don't tortue Eldians, turn them into titans, and send them to kill the remaining Eldians on the island for years on top of years without expecting to be retaliated against, regardless of what happened to you thousands of years ago.
But look at world war 2. How usa nuked japan twice. Great example of how Eren didn't have to kill everyone. Especially whe you realise that not everyone outside paradise was their enemy.
@@Brug98 says that while Paradis gets bombed to oblivion by mankind. They definitely weren't all his enemies but Eren knew that and so did the US when the killed innocence during the bombing its just collateral damage at that point.
@@triton5336 eren is not doing what US did
@@Brug98 bro I didn't say Eren did the same thing as the US. I am stating both knew they would be killing civilians considering most who would die from both attacks would be civilians. The reason US wanted to do that was to end the war with Japan swiftly and decisively. Eren wanted the same outcome but more of a total obliteration so Paradis would be safe but stopped at 20%.
just turn all eldians outside the wall into colossals smh
Screws with their freedom.
Here before your channel is famous lol love how you did the video learned more about the universe lore.
I believe since the rumbling is set in a time period close to ww1, that Marley could have and should have used aerial bombardments from aircraft and airships, and also should have used mustard or chlorine gas.
While I don't disagree with your points on how things would eventually turn sour, this isn't a good argument against it the rumbling, Eren doesn't care for what happens with in the island, he cares about eliminating the threat outside of it, he acknowledges at multiple points that he is not creating peace, but only giving his people freedom from the outside world
have you ever heard of in-group preference?
I always saw it this way. Eren 'granted' freedom to the people of paradis.
Doesnt MATTER how they use the 'granted freedom', that is of least concern to Eren
He always wanted the 'freedom', 'freedom' to be OUTSIDE the walls. And he gives that 'freedom' to paradis.
Yeah basically. Erens ideal is to have the freedom to see the ocean, to have the freedom to prosper.
The only way to achieve World Peace is to completely eliminate Free Will within humans.
But this isn't Eren's goal. Eren isn't seeking World Peace, he's seeking the preservation of his friend's lives by killing off every last creature on the planet than isn't on the island and all humans who aren't Eldians. This isn't going to stop division and wars and grabs for power but it does leave 90% of the world left to be reclaimed by the surviving Eldians, at least providing a buffer of peace for his friends to live normal and peaceful lives until their deaths. Whatever happens after that, Eren does not care. Only the lives of his friends matter, not peace, not happiness, not even human lives.
Violence breeds violence but in the end it has to be this way 🔥🔥
love the metal gear reference lol
Erens goal wasnt to fix all conflict.....Ill say it again
True which is what people forget. Eren wants his friends save from humanity not to end all conflict
you completely missed what eren was trying to achieve, he didnt want to just prevent future wars, he wanted to give the eldians freedom, the ability to do as they pleased without marley wanting to bomb them and shit
eren didnt care about eldia, he did the rumbling for purely selfish reasons just like how reiner broke into wall maria. they both did these terrible things for selfish reasons to make themselves feel good fully knowing that it is morally unforgivable. eren had an extremely childish view on freedom - he is constantly fixated on the idea of freedom without properly knowing what it was. eren did the rumbling for this idea of freedom - there would be nobody in his way if the entire world, aka his enemies, were gone. he was disappointed at what really was outside the walls, it wasn't what he wanted so he'll keep on chasing that true idea of freedom that his childish mind had. the only way to achieve this freedom is to keep moving forward and kill those in his way, and thats why he did the rumbling
@@Capinet so you're saying he killed the entire world for no reason? eren was not crazy, nor pure evil, he did what he did for his people and himself, what you say has no grounds on anything said in the series
@@joaquinruggiero3997 that was not what i said. eren did the rumbling so that he could be "free". he wanted to do it, he did the rumbling willingly. the way eren saw freedom was specifically the freedom that he saw in armin's book. it was an extremely childish and narrow-minded viewpoint of freedom. at the end of s3 where the scouts finally go to the ocean, the reason why eren asks if `they kill everyone on the otherside of the ocean, will they be free` is because eren sees the outside world as a blockade for his freedom. eren and reiner are direct parallels of eachother - this is why eren literally talks about why they are the same in liberio. reiner breached the walls because he wanted to, for purely selfish desires. and eren did the rumbling for the same reason, eren wanted to. this was the only way to reach the freedom that eren had been chasing for so long.
Few things people don't understand is that Eren never wanted to do the Rumbling to "end human conflict" forever.
It's either letting his people go extinct, or wipe out the rest of the world.
We do see Eren is contemplating about his future decision to do the rumbling when he is in Marley. He ask himself if it isn't better to allow Eldians die out and end the titan power conflict and struggle forever.
But he choses the rumbling and refuse the other choice because that was the only choice to make so his friends will live in peace and their families too for many years to come, until many generation later humans will fight eachother again and probably wipe out Eldians anyway who knows, but on Eren's mind atleast his friends won't be alive then as having died by old age and have lived peaceful non-conflict filled lives too.
Wierd and controversial analogy I will make but it's nearly the same, say if you are either black or white skinned, and you see a future where either White people entirely go extinct or all black people, what do you chose? your own "race" or the other. Not really a nice choice and very controversial and hectic debate to have but that is what Eren is having, that is Attack on Titan. Not really a easy choice to be forced and put onto you by a lot of different people memories in your mind and future.
Also I'am a manga reader and can say most of this will be explained make sense what and why Eren is doing this all for.
From the ending of the last chapter we already know Erens plan only worked temporarily. War, hatred and destruction came right back some years later. It never ends.
Plot twist this video was made by ChatGpt
I’m glad I actually stuck around and watched the video, at first I thought it was going to go a different direction but it ended up echoing my thoughts on what I feel is missing when Zeke and Eren’s plans are being discussed.
I honestly kinda think Eren was after revenge...
A very Christian concept in a world devoid of Christians. King Fritz was never going to make peace since he believed in strength alone. Ymir was originally a slave of the most deplorable kind to his people. Survival of the fittest does not really bring peace. Forgiveness is a foreign concept to this world.
Eren's plan was to lose to his friends the entire time so that they could become Heroes and bring the peace that he couldn't.
plus no human are equal
we are not identical twins
so there will be differences, whether we like it or not
thats why people like Eren are important
people who cares about others
and the future Paradise seems to heading towards the path of "caring each other"
it will not remove inequality because inequality will always exist even if you radically support the stupid or something
You make good points but the overuse of shutter stock photos is extremely distracting and unecessary
lmao frr
Yeah that's why it's called "Attack On Mid"
Thank you for your analysis. I am still a bit puzzled to understand why a considerable amount of readers hate the manga ending. In my opinion, the ending, instead of showing that everything was in vain, showed how Armin and Historia managed to secure an armistice of more or less 80-100 years. After that, is possible that things once again fell through but at least they had the opportunity and time to find many other options to coexist with the outside world.
That is not the only problem with the manga. If I understand the issue correctly, it is that Eren is still a whiny, selfish brat who is portrayed as causing the rumbling because he wants to, and also very weirdly wishes to consummate his feelings with Mikasa which also infuriates those who wanted more time with Eren and Mikasa (because time was never given to explore that) and also those who wanted more time with Eren and Historia (simply because Eren was the only one who really supported Historia, and that too was left underdeveloped and unfulfilled unlike the possible Eren and Mikasa relationship).
Most importantly, Eren literally put himself on this own path, meaning his years of scheming and character development are considered useless because he was fated to become the monster that started the rumbling, and not because he was a person who really observed a world that utterly hated Paradisians and Eldians and wished both to be wiped off the Earth and therefore was a person making a hasty impossible choice.
Finally, Eren’s version of freedom is very likely not our version of freedom. It is likely that Eren’s version of freedom was very literally a sandbox world where there was nothing outside of the Walls and unimpeded exploration was possible, and the fact that there were oppressors only added to this regret instead of being the sole reason he committed himself to the Rumbling. Even if we take that Eren really hates the fact that everyone hates Eldians and Paradisians as the reason for his disappointment in what he saw outside the walls, he eventually comes to a form of freedom that is that everyone is allowed to do what they want including stamping out all the world that hates you (which are non-Eldian humans). That is, he still does not care about human rights as much as we thought he did.
Those would be the arguments for hating the ending. Some do think Eren really did the best he could in securing Eldians a future in a world that would otherwise hate Eldians. Others focus on how perfectly circular the story is - war started the titans, and it will go on beyond the titans. Some think it is perfectly fine for Eren to have contradicting thoughts because this proves how complex the situation is, and freedom can be a mixture of altruism and selfishness. Some like it because it still proves Eren was the same securer of freedom he was in the beginning.
Odm gear doesn't make sense but you see they made it make sense
It's worth noting that the series makes no secret of the fact that the Rumbling wouldn't work and is being carried out by someone who is not of a grounded mind
Hell, Eren is literally in a weird mental paradise prison where he thinks he is actually providing freedom when he is really trampling over anything
Except, a large part of the division is due to a lack of resources. After the rumbling, there's vastly more resources and space available for Eldians to regain.
Also I don't understand why the warriors attacked the walls instead of yk, blending in like Grisha did
The warriors attacked the walls cuz they wanna see how the king will react, and they will do there next move based on how the king acts.
I think what may have needed to actually happen is Eren would’ve needed to manipulate Ymir’s memories/past and make it so that the Titan tree never existed in the first place which in turn would hopefully get rid of the Titans overall.
If gabi is the answer to the problem that Marley faces, then armin is literally a side character for no reason. I can’t say that plan is wrong but there could be flaws such as the assumption of understanding is the only answer to this problem. That the reality is that there are many problems, as you already laid out, to humanity than a singular person to solve everyone’s problems. In essence, it has to be the collaboration of everyone to make the best decision for humanity than to be selfish which is extremely hard to accomplish. I admire your point and argument against Eren and zeke. Both are taking in the wrong approach
That's why the strongest one dominate and rule , weak ones deserve to die already
I agree. That’s why I don’t understand those fans who said Eren is right! Rumbling is good. Understanding a character and acknowledging that a character do bad things are totally different. People understand the joker. But what joker did are horribly wrong. That’s a fact. Understanding Eren and his pain is good. But blindly saying he’s doing the right thing is… meh.
Okay ..... then what would you do if ypu were eren ? Never start the rumbling so you could be destroyed by the world ? Or just hoping for some peace and understanding from the marleyans who always hated the eldians without even accepting them as humans?
That's my whole point. Yeh I would do the same. But that doesn't mean I am right. Character do bad decisions or bad things and so do we. But we have to accept the fact that that's wrong. It's like saying we should kill all germans in holocaust because of what they did to jews. If I am jew, I would do it but that doesn't mean it is right. You just become what you fear.
His mental exercise is a good example of how despite being passionate and somewhat talented indeed
In the end of the day he is still an amateur and can't come up with a better ending than an actual professional who actually built an amazingly written fictional world
I subscribed to your channel because I respect the amount of images used in this video
Actually said to Floch that their plan would confine the violence to the island of Paradis.
How is ending one war pointless, because other conflicts exist?
Full disclosure I am strictly an anime watcher so I have no clue how the show will end but ever since part 2 of season 4 I’ve been saying Erin doesn’t want to do the rumbling but being able to know the future he must know that he will more than likely be stopped by both people of Marley and more importantly Paride will show the what’s left of the world that the “island devils” aren’t the devils that they were believed to be. We’ve seen gabby make this realization and I believe it will also happen on a larger scale. Of course not everyone will feel the same but I don’t believe many people will raise up to fight the very same people who actually saved the world unlike the Tybor family
Manga spoilers!
It’s analysis videos like this that truly show how deep and complex attack on Titan is and why I love it so much. In the end, it was actually Armin that finally started the dialogue with the other side and achieved a peace that lasted for at least Gabi’s generation. There was no war after the rumbling until well after Mikasa’s death not just because the world was devastated and couldn’t continue, but because Armin and the gang brokered peace deals between Paradis and the world. Armin achieved Gabi’s dream of proving to the world that Eldians can also be good people by killing Eren in front of the Marleyan survivors.
I would like to say though that you’re wrong about Eren and Zeke’s plans being the only option. The show demonstrates numerous times that Eren could’ve done a small scale rumbling, using just the Shiganshina wall Titans, to destroy the worlds military for a generation. That would’ve been sufficient for the world to agree to a non-aggression pact on Paradis’s terms. Hell, it would’ve demonstrated they had mercy, since the Eldians could have actually wiped them all out. But it was Eren that took the rumbling all the way. He was the one that didn’t have mercy. While the prioritization of destruction of the worlds military was a legitimate self defense measure, Eren’s continuation of the destruction of all civilization was purely selfish. As he himself explained, he did it because he was disappointed the world wasn’t an empty landscape like it was in Armin’s book. He was waiting for a world that had been untouched by humans for over a hundred years or more to be just his and his friends. And when he didn’t get that, he decided he’d just make the world that way.
Eren didn’t do that because the progression of tech was making titans outdated. Had the outside would been prepared the flying boat and a big enough bomb would easily kill the founding titan let alone anything developed later.
The peace agreement would go the same way as it went with Karl Fritz, it would last until the outside world decided they could handle it.
Also Eren wasn’t disappointed that the world wasn’t empty, he was disappointed that everyone out-there viewed him and his race as subhumans who need to be exterminated.
@@hibubgames7667 no, eren was disappointed because outside the walls didn't align with his idea of freedom, aka an undiscovered canvas of a world ready to be explored. that was the freedom eren sought after for so long, and he continues to chase it. that is why he did the rumbling, if he eliminates the 1 thing in the way of his idea of freedom - then he will truly be free to his eyes.
The goal in Eren's mind was for the Eldians of Paradis to just not be in fear of being wiped out and in the extra pages they got carpet bombed thanks to the rumbling being stopped
Please watch the video or careful analysis because as seen through out AOT even the Eldians are fighting among themselves so I highly doubt whatever peace you think the Rumbling will give. It's highly unlikely peace would be achieve as long humanity exist.
There will always be a means to war simple as that for pro genocide people like you
I like how you linked this to philosophical concepts.
However (haven't read the manga), it is not Peace Eren wants. And I don't think it is completely vengeance as well.
Rather, he does what he has to do to protect the Eldians. Marley plan always has been to invade Paradis, take control of the founder for themselves, and enslave (eradicate?) the 'island devils'. Either Eren exterminates them all or they will (as we saw with the two public speeches in Marley - the first time Eren is in Marley, and also during Tybur's speech.
Eren also knows he only has a few years left being a Titan, and once Marley acquires the Founder it is over for Eldians and the world. As such he chose to be the bad guy, and exterminates the whole world. To protect his friends and the people he cares about before it is too late. He never sought glory, or power, but to save everyone even if it costs him in life. Now obviously there are moral implications, and the threat of extermination doesn't justify genocide, but I believe this is the moral dilemma Eren went through.
I heard that in Foundation for Economic Freedom the opposite of war is not peace but trade and prosperity. There’s also a real world case where countries with a McDonald’s have not fought each other or have rarely fought each other.
wait, but wouldn't another founder just undo the sterile problem?
Problem is, Eren's main motivation was his sick desire of Freedom so of course his plan doesn't make much sense i always felt he was using it as an excuse and justification to pursue his ambition
AAAAAAAAAAAAAH i wish you were a manga reader, I'll keep your channel in my aot list, I'll come back in October to see what you have to say. Very pertinent so far, that is
I mean if I was in Erens position obviously I would go along with his plan. It's us or them really. The focus is on survival at this point not "humanity will be this or that".
If another faction of humans wants my faction dead I would do it to them 1st.
Have you seen the ending in the Manga? There is a scene about Paradis getting bombed by warplanes so the Rumbling clearly did not work as a solution to save Paradis. But I think we should look at the Rumbling not as a solution to move stuff forward but as a plot device that facilitates stuff like showcasing the themes of the story. Plus, I do not think Eren actually intended to Paradis to actually become a perpetual superpower forever or entirely eradicate its enemies. He could have seen all the futures and only decided the one where his friends could live their lives in peace without the titan's curse or fear of war. After that, Paradis and humanity as a whole could do whatever they want and that mattered not to him. This is my interpretation based on how Eren said that everything was done for his friends like Armin along with the fact that Eren did not take any concrete steps to fully stop Armin and his gang from preventing the rumbling beforehand despite having the power to see the future. I think he wanted to be stopped exactly at that point. Had the Rumbling go unopposed due to Eren keeping his friends contained early on, the Jaegarist faction would be powerful due to Floch being alive and would probably oppress them for not sharing their radical beliefs.
In short, Eren did not care about Paradis or Humanity as a whole. He just wanted his friends to have a good life. After that, humanity could go **** themselves and he did not care. He probably saw that there was no way to save humanity as a whole from its typical warmongering nature and so chose the ending where his friends would have the best outcome than trying to make changes that were futile. That's why the manga ending feels cyclical with Paradis getting bombed but the tree that Ymir fell down into still remained and was again discovered.
The only way for everything to kind if stabiliza is to get rid of the titan power complety that is what eren is doing since the plan for his titan to be inherited by historia's child .
Eren activating the Rumbling literally took away the walls, so that's a non-issue. Also, if Eren was able to 100% the Rumbling, the entire planet would then belong to the Eldians of Paradis. They'd have way too much space to fight amongst each other, likely for thousands of years.
Ah yes all that dead sizzling land. If Eren 100% the rumbling than the only place that has any resources left like animals and plant life is in the island. Everything outside of Paradis is a dead zone.
and it will took 100 years after the population of humans started to be normal again and everyone starts making their own countries and fight because of different ideals and the great titan war will start again. The cycle never ends
Started binging the other day thinking “yo everyone says that show is amazing and it’s finally finished might as well do it”
Turned out it’s not finished and I’m just here after hours of excitement and now? FALL!?
What a sensible video, great 💙💙
Completely missed the point which wasnt even that complex. Ofcourse there will always be division in the world. But since when is division for example between the rich and the poor the same as nazi level racism and ethnic cleansing. Eren was never gonna solve humanity nor was that ever his intention. He just wanted to protect and free his people from a world that literally saw them as devils, again not that complex
Eren's plan was simple, he just want "his friends life long and happy", he achieved his goal even though the cost is 80% of humanity.
He knew, even rumbling can't archive "world peace"
People in bunkers be chilling.
I'm pretty sure that Eren's plan was not only for him to initiate the Rumbling, but to actually be stopped and killed well before he could complete it, by none other than a united force of Marlayan and Paradis Eldians (and even a non-Eldian pilot). Eren wasn't trying to ensure that Paradis would be prosperous forever; he was trying to create a collective trauma and legacy that would cement the consequences and horror of what can happen when hatred, war, oppression, and exploitation are taken too far. It's not that future wars won't happen, or that Paradis will remain united and idyllic; it's that everyone even generations from now will reflexively think about The Rumbling whenever they think about potentially pushing people too far. It will be a constant, eternal, and overwhelming reminder to all of humanity that no matter how much power you wield or how much control you think you have, the only way to ensure safety and prosperity is to not give other people enough reasons to want to threaten it by any means necessary.
This holds as true for Paradis as it does the rest of the world. The Yaegerists who might by paranoid and militaristic in the future will also be forced to think about The Rumbling and the circumstances that led up to it and acknowledge that backing your enemies into a corner and/or putting a firm boot on their necks is likely to backfire spectacularly.
Eren very clearly wanted things to play out the way they did. He wanted to be stopped and killed in the very manner in which he was--after all, he could have done many things to ensure that the efforts to stop him never had a chance (even without killing anyone, like telling Foch to just blow up the flying boat while the Yaegerists still had possession of it). Eren showed both Paradis and the rest of the world the consequences of us-or-them mentality taken to its most extreme. He became the enemy of both sides, in a way, and was stopped by an alliance of both sides who wanted to stop the logical conclusion from playing out to its bloody end.
No way, there is no such thing as unintentional perfect cut screen exist*
1:48
Unless if Marley reverse engineers the first evangelions. They’re technically like titans except they need an entry plug (cockpit) inserted in the nape
The Rumbling would have been the best solution if it succeedes, but only if the Jeagerists are still around, and Eren survives. They'd be able to maintain order, and the founding titan will still be able to maintain total control over the Eldians, that's only if you want peace, but that isn't the goal of The Rumbling.
As literally no one exists beyond Paradis, nothing is stopping people from using their freedom (the ultimate goal of The Rumbling is to grant Paradis freedom, not to make the world a better place. And in that, it DOES work.)
The entire goal of The Rumbling isn't world peace, but rather to save everyone in the city, and his friends to grant them freedom, so I imgaine that Eren would remove the ability to titan shift from Eldians entierly.
And in the goal of The Rumbling, it would 100% succeed, if successful, but if it fails, then the hatre cycle just continues on, no matter how much of the hate they blame on Eren, it would just be a Code Geass cope out, so I imagine that something would be different, and given how the world of AoT works, if The Rumbling fails, then sometime in the future, Paradis would be destroyed.
so you mean fascism, then that doesn't really free eldians from war mongers, just them under new management
You did realize that if that succeed fighting among themselves would happen right like even if titan powers don't exist as you mentioned.
I'm pretty sure time will come the Eldians among Paradis would just go to war among themselves and how did the empire fell because they started a war among themselves. So I highly doubt the Rumbling will be the total peace it will but for a time being. Because as long as humans exist will always have a means to war
Proper video man I'm only 1 min in commenting this! Waiting for 1,000 subs
It's so weird how this subtle theme was around in the manga yet most people didn't even notice it unless they really paid attention. Wisecrack already made a video about this back in 2017 before season 2 when people used to think the show was just about killing Titans.
"When it was just about killing titans" way to oversimplify it when the first 3 seasons has better world building and complexity than the post Timeskip season
@@zomebody5529 Yes the world building was better but the main aim was to kill all titans and find out what's in the basement.
@@FictionHubZA also it was so much more gritty and it also has more character development. In a few years time when everything is said and done, I think we will remember AoT's pre timeskip more fondly
@@zomebody5529 Yes I agree with that. I read the Manga a few years back and I didn't watch season 4. It just didn't capture my interest as much. The story felt like it kinda lost focus after that.