Another happy aluminium yacht owner here. Regarding welding the deck fittings on, much stronger than bolting, another advantages is no through hull fittings. It creates a very dry boat, most aluminium boat owners talk about vacuuming their bilge, not sponging it.. Another benefit is that I have no seacocks, many aluminium yachts have standing pipes welded in for water intake (eg, toilet water inlet). There are advantages and disadvantages to every building material, it just comes back to personal preference. Thanks.
To be clear rust is a type of corrosion (the wearing-away of metal), and to put it simply, aluminium does not rust, but it does corrode. Although these terms are often used interchangeably, they are fundamentally different. As with any metal, when it comes into contact with oxygen, an oxide layer will form on aluminium. Unlike with other metals such as iron or steel, the layer of aluminium oxide is actually protective - it’s hard, thin and fairly transparent, and is tricky to remove, unlike rust. As it’s not very noticeable and actually protects the metal, aluminium oxidation isn’t a big problem.
Aluminum boats aren’t as bad as you think. The difference between an aluminum anode and the material used in boat construction is completely different. Quality aluminum boats are built out of 6160-T6. Anodes are a much softer material. Look at Kanter Yachts in St. Thomas. They make some of the best aluminum boats in the world. Also most of the mega yachts are built in aluminum. I do boat surveying and between aluminum and steel, I have seen some very rusty steel boats. But have never come across an aluminum boat with big gaping holes from corrosion.
I dont know if youre talking about American motor-yatchs/fishing boats on t6 alluminium, but Quality aluminum sail-boats (Boréal, Bestevaer, Garcia, Alubat/Ovni etc) are all are made with 5086/5083, not "6160-T6"
@@lrvz7187 Strongly agree - 5083 it is - 6000 series is an engineering grade ALU - 5000 series is more ductile and this is what you want - hit something very hard and ALU simply bends or deflects but does not hole - of course best not to hit anything but life happens.
I lived aboard the Tole More, a 165 foot 3 masted gaff rigged schooner. She has teak decks and an aluminum hull. No complaints whatsoever. From Erie PA to Hawaii, she was a dream! 13 knots, oh yeah!
An Aluminium can also be used as a heat transfer for the heat generated by AC or the engines, meaning you do not require sea water heat exchangers that become blocked with barnacles. Aluminium does not burn like fibreglass does, so more safe if a fire does start. Aluminium is recyclable, not just burnt or put into landfill. Aluminium is easier to repair from the outside for temporary fix, just screw on some gasketed sheets. You cant epoxy a hole in a fibreglass boat when underwater.
I may stand corrected in my assertion but my understanding with regards to the limited number of aluminium yachts on the water is largely due to the limited number of yards around the globe that are capable of producing them. Yes, I'm aware that there are quite a few commercial vessel manufacturers but how many sailing vessel manufacturers are there that possess the plant and skills to build aluminium recreational yachts? Not many would be my presumption. The synopsis in this presentation is very good. I would add to it that with the exception of the potential effects of contaminated oil, all of the issues that affect aluminium yachts certainly affect steel yachts equally. I'm in Australia and there are a lot of aluminium commercial fishing/abalone/oyster vessels located in Darwin, which is a particularly harsh environment for just about anything. I've also had the luxury of sailing on Kookaburra 2 which is a 12 metre rule yacht built in 1985. That boat was built to absolutely minimum spec and despite that, it's still racing at least weekly 37 years later. I'd be interested to hear comments.
"places you wouldn't take a little fiberglass boat"...you mean like Svalbard on a Pearson 36? 😂 Another great episode Tim, thanks for the time, energy, and research you put into these.
Or sailing a junk rigg converted North Atlantic 29 through the NW-Passage like Chris & Jess Bray (YT Yacht Teleport). Or do a nonstop around the Americas including NW-Passage and Cape Horn in a 27-foot Albin Vega like Matt Rutherford. However, most people that go into the high latitudes for longer will take the safety of aluminium. And with good reason. You wouldn't try a freeze in over winter like Guirec Soudée in fibre glass either ....
The US coast guard has been successfully running aluminum boats for decades. When I was there in the 80’s maintaining a couple of 41’ we just replaced zincs every year or two along with bottom paint. On the daily and weekly just wash off salt spray to keep corrosion away. Now the Navy has tested and found that much larger ships of aluminum are not the best material for their missions.
Really? I thought the US Navy is building heaps of them now, Littoral Combat ships based on a Commercial Fast Ferry out of Australia, last I heard they were buying/building more. What has changed recently?
I would certainly opt for steel over aluminum myself because I used to be a welder. With steel, you were right in saying you could carry around a welder and I could teach almost anyone how to weld steel effectively. Aluminum on the other hand definitely needs to be maintained by a pro. Welding aluminum is so different than steel and you can make a small issue way worse in an instant trying to maintain aluminum hull by yourself. Can you learn to weld aluminum? Sure but it will never be as easy as steel to fix.
You’re correct as far as the difficulties difference, but aluminum is far from being hard to weld. With a small Tig unit, repairs / modifications are pretty easy.
Hey, never heard of engine oil being detrimental to aluminium. Btw one great thing of aluminium to be mentioned is that you can dispose of it properly once the boat lifetime is out. Fibreglass sailboats are piling up at various places of the world because practically it is extremely difficult to recycle them. In Europe we see that people tend to just abandon them at places where the community or some authority will have to remove them and have it replaced on the community's expense. In alu boats it will never be an issue, even if they reach their end of life (which is, as you also said, can be extremely long). I read a statisic that cca 70% of the aluminium ever produced is still in circulation. These big hulls, masts and booms are prime examples of well recyclability (if there is such a word?). The biggest problem I actually agree with you, is the price range. The alu boats from builders of established reputation tend to be like way up there in terms of price. Even when used.
I was wondering about that too (engine oil). Airplanes have been made out of aluminum for a LONG time and I've never seen corrosion as a result of oil or fuel coming in contact with the skin or structure. At the same time, I think I'd want the aluminum surface treated with anti-corrosive paint (zinc chromate was the classic one until it was banned) just to help avoid that problem.
Shouldn't unless its particularly acid or its had certain metals added to it. Al doesnt rust per say it oxidizes but that stops at a certain depth ...anodizing is a protective process that creates a deeper protective layer ... Thats actually very hard to scratch and resistant to attack. Hence the expedition yatchs often being left bare.. on flyingboats of old they used to plaster the bilge compartments with lanolin. Marine grades of Al are as variable as specialist Steels. The other point is if your riveting steel components to Al you had best be using the Special composition rivets... and ive forgot the name.🤦🏻♂️ That said if you want to see the ultimate short handed giant explorer yatch have a look at Beowulf ... By Steve Dashew ruclips.net/video/yrDxYkSI710/видео.html Most of the performance work boats and Australian or NZ build a lot of Al hull boats... Sailing Jupiter is the first Channel that springs to mind. Again Dutch German and Scandi companies tend to excell in building. Garcia build their Al hulled Explorer cats. If you want to paint Al you need to use an acid etch primer to key it to the Al and get the paint to stick to the primer. The other issue is thermal insulation Al is a brilliant conductor of heat ... So any Al live aboard vessel will need insulating from heat loss or tropical solar gains...and to control condensation. ..but that should be standard on any metal hulled vessel.
The French have launched a scrappage scheme for dealing with all the old glass boats .. i think they grind them up to add to Concrete. ..there are companies that have developed New resins that allow Glass fibers to be separated from the resins and both re claimed. It was in one of the online yatching mags ...they did a big article on alternative and greener materials being developed in boat building... Cars by comparison have been for some time by law built to be a min. Of 80% recyclable. Explosive hydraulic forming of Aluminium hulls has been around since the 1990s ...and if you forgive the pun you can knock a hull form out in a few minutes up to a given size... I think it was first developed in NZ ...to get seam free curved hull profiles like on racers of the period.
Contaminated oil can corrode aluminium. Acidic microbial excretions can be a problem but it is more common in diesel than engine oil. Engine oil may also become acidic with age and may also contain materials that are incompatible with aluminium. If My memory serves me correctly (it mightn't!), I don't think that some aluminium alloys and carbon play nicely together. Used engine oil contains carbon. Having said that, in a past life I worked on vintage aircraft. Corrosion mitigation was amongst my jobs. I never saw corrosion resulting from engine oil deposits but I am cognisant of the fact that different alloys, the absence of salt water as an electrolyte and low hour oil might account for this. New mineral oil was used to lubricate hinge mechanisms on control surfaces.
not sure its been mentioned by another commenter, but the reason aluminum isnt painted is corrosion. Raw aluminum very quickly forms a layer of AL-oxide which is protective. If you paint or otherwise seal aluminum, it allows any corrosion to spread rapidly, and unseen. I cant remember the chemistry of it, but anoxic aluminum is highly susceptible to salt corrosion, and that loves to exist in that oxygen free area.
Distant Shores is documenting their construction of an aluminum sailboat at the moment. But on another note, when I lived on Protection Island in Nanaimo one of my friends had a welded aluminum boat. When he moved off the island he couldn't sell the thing because the sheets were slightly made of different marine aluminum batches and suffered from dissolving rot and couldn't do anything about it. I knew they were finicky but this was a new one. Buy twice as much of the same batch and use half if it? .. Cheers to you ..
I realize your format is easily digestible, not highly technical. Still it's important to not be incorrect. So please take this as constructive. Corrosion by stray current is electrolysis, not galvanic corrosion. Corrosion through dis-similar metals is galvanic corrosion. Steel and aluminum are both rugged, strong materials. But strength is not a single property, as I believe you understand. Maybe this is another place where your audience could be informed just a little more without being too technical, just as you did when comparing fiberglass high tensile strength to steel isotropic strength. If aluminum is built to the weight of steel, it is stiffer "stronger" globally and takes more energy to crush, dent, hole, buckle, etc. Steel is hard and abrasion resistant as well as "strong" so it is exceptionally rugged overall. That's all assuming aluminum's great strength is not used to make the boat as light as possible, which just like fiberglass, can result in a boat which is strong enough as a whole, but less than rugged in places.
And the stray currents that result in electrolysis need not be supplied by your vessels electrical system. Someone welding on a steel boat in close proximity could really spoil your day.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 The galvanic corrosion start because two metals have potential difference, once they are together, one became cathode (lower/and or positive voltage) and the other anode (higher/and or negative voltage). Example: Aluminum has -1.67 Volt and Steel -0.44 Volt the difference is 1.23Volt, these tho elements together will make the aluminum corrode. The best is to be as close as zero, on the same example if you put Aluminum with Beryllium no corrosion will occur as the two material are almost at zero on potential difference. Download a galvanic corrosion table and you can see the value on each metal. As a general rule 0.2volt differential is considered safe. Aluminum has one incredible advantage over steel, once the surface is oxidate, there is no longer conductivity, (that is the reason why they don’t paint them, they basically need to naturally oxidized) and that is why modern military boat are all in aluminum and not in steel, they literally last lifetime. Don’t worry about electricity issues once the surface is oxidate is no longer conductive. No current no corrosion. If you like to do a test take a multimeter tester put on close/open circuit mode ohms (beep when two probes touches) and touch the hull from one side to the other at any distance you will notice after the boat was in the water for a while it won’t beep anymore. Most of the hulls uses aluminum 5083, 5086, and 6061 series alloy, the mast in most of the sailboat are in 7029 series, which is an extrudable 7000 series alloy very strong flexible and corrosion resistance. Conclusion: if you have the money aluminum boat are far superior than any other material, especially on salt water. The downside is if you manage to damage them they are more hard to fix on the go. At the end is just a choice and budget! Cheers
@@dhbeto Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. You make some very interesting observations, particularly pertaining to aluminimium oxidistation and its propensity to act as a dielectric. This has to make it a vastly superior material to steel from both a perspective of galvanic corrosion and electrolysis. I hadn't considered that in this context. Aluminium is quite a reactive material but of course the oxide thereof is anything but reactive. Thank you for your informed reply.
Another RUclips sailing channel is Life on Jupiter. Jamie the owner is sailing a Mumby Cyber 48 cat made out of aluminum. He would be a good resource for you to talk to about living with an aluminum sail boat as he has been on his for over 2 years having sailed from Thailand across both the Indian and Atlantic and recently did the Great Loop and is currently back in the GoM.
Yeah that Mumby 48 foot Cat he has is 6.5 tons dry, can sail really well in a light breeze, its stronger, stiffer and lighter by a long shot than an equivalent Glass boat, Australians build a lot of Aluminium boats including fast commercial ferries of thousands of tons in Cat and Tri versions that can go 30/40 knots as standard, one of them is the company building Littoral Combat ships for the American Navy. One thing ive heard with the french boats in particular that annoys owners is the wave slap under the transom and sides which is quite loud in certain conditions.
Thx mate, a well presented discussion of the pros and cons of Aluminium ( and thx for acknowledging the different pronunciations😉). Galvanic corrosion is of course possible on fibreglass boats as well particularly with the dissimilar metals issue in the presence of salt water, most notably in the standing rigging, not a good scenario. This means of course that the attention to electrical isolation is a vital requirement for any vessel, steel, aluminium or fibre glass. (unless you have the kind of budget that allows for an entirely composite hull, mast, standing rig, through hulls, mountings, anntenae and any other elements that are subject to salt water immersion. Even then you have to have some way of channelling a lightning strike to earth without blowing holes in critical structures, let alone electronics. Been there done that....) So... I think there are some excellent builders who make both sailing and power vessels from aluminium. Note that many modern military vessels are now primarily aluminium in construction and that there is a body of knowledge out there to draw on regarding the issues you have raised. I like the collision tolerance elements, Aluminium bends, deforms rather than shatters, good for adventures far from help, I like the options that are offered by the major Aluminium boat builders, swing keel, cutter rigs, and I like the strength to weight ratio of the right alloys. Note also that aircraft are largely aluminium constructions and spend most oil their lives out in the weather, and all of the issues associated with maintenance and corrosion are dealt with there too, thank god.. Anyway thanks again for your presentation. good work. cheers from Australia. the Dr.
Aluminum hull sailboats seem to be much more common in Europe (especially Nordic areas, likely due to the ice). Was looking around at Meta 36~50 ft boats recently... they are almost impossible to find in the US... and when you find them (used) in Europe they are either very expensive ($600k+) or 40+ years old and need a full refit. lol. Although I did find a pretty nice looking 1983 Ted Brewer 46' aluminum hull boat in northern WA for ~$90k, but it needs new sails and a full refit/renovation.
Fibreglass is actually far stronger than both than steel or aluminium. But it has less impact and abrasion resistance, it will fracture rather than dent, which is bad if you don't want water in your boat. You are right that it doesn't have isotropic strength too, but that's not too much of an issue on a boat as most of the forces are predictable and linear.
Great episode, learned a lot about alu boats. I would like you to make some episodes about Swedish sail boats. Would be great to see you talk about Orust island boats like Hallberg Rassy, Malö, Najad, Vindö, Regina, Fantasi, Forgus, Swedish yachts but also other boats like Albin (The Albin Vega) and others.
Here in Europe aluminium sailboats are very desirable and getting more so. France and the Netherlands are leading the way. Boreal, KM Yachts & Garcia to name a few. Corrosion or electrolysis is a real issue on older models and rightly very unforgiving with electrical mistakes. I would be avoiding older aluminium boats but definitely looking at newer models. Especially for high latitude sailing. Thanks 🙏 for the great content.
Why is corrosion or electrolysis on the older models a problem? Is the problem with the hull materials specifications or is it the electrical system? Would replacing the electrical system solve the problem?
If you had a trailer sized aluminum boat, you would find it easier to maintain than any boat you've ever touched. Unless you make gross mistakes, proper aluminum alloys are solid and lasting and way stronger per weight than steel. Aluminum is often subject to harsh criticism.
Susan & Tony here, We are currently looking at an aluminum boat , it has been painted. We are most likely not going to make a deal . Your info was helpful.
I have an aluminium hull, teak on plywood deck Koopmans 35 from 1982. It needs some TLC, so I'm fixing her up bit-by-bit. Every marina I visit in the Mediterranean has at least one or two aluminium sailing yachts.
I can't wait to start building my 32ft aluminium sail boat, as I mentioned in your steel video ( and you as well), build or buy a boat out of the material you can work with.
u just helped me answer an age old question. why some boats are hit/damaged by lightening more than others, even of the same make and model. they answer is obvious. upgraded electronics rarely include upgrades to the ground straps/system let alone the anodes. is it not true that too many anodes causes problems also, not as bad as not enough, but left un checked could lead to catastrophic failures?
Most working boats in many industries around the world are built in steel or aluminium. Many spend most of their time at sea, in nearly all conditions, 24 hours a day. Hardly any of them choose to use fibreglass.
My last sailboat was aluminum, 48 feet built in south Africa . I liked the boat but it was noisy inside in a sea way and forget about keeping paint on it . I bought it unpainted and faired and painted the hull and deck myself . took me two years. Bare aluminum turns ugly fast and starts looking like bare concrete . I got asked often if the boat was cement .
P.S. I like the rugged commercial look of bare aluminum topsides. Especially on a design that pays some tribute to working craft design. I don't know if you were getting asked out of ignorance or something else. There are some conceited jerks in the yacht world.
@@artfulalias3984 That final statement sadly seems too common James Wharram fought against it all his life.. but ive come to see it In a lot of posts .. its like ..you cannot afford to buy/pay for this so you shouldn't do this or try to do it... especially if its in the same places i visit...🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️😖 Some times the doers have bust a gut for years doing it themselves and learned how to DIY . And Whoh.. betide any one who tries or has to do anything different.🤷🏻♂️🧙♂️ Thankfully we still have the legacy of the likes of Wharram to inspire youngsters like Wildings Sailing and thousands of others building their own dreams to keep going. Before i got interested in boats i grew up in an engineering familly and with a love of unusual aircraft ...flyingboats and amphibians were one of my areas of particular interest.
@@artfulalias3984 I get it , I like the aluminum look as well , on the right boat . Personally I like shinny topsides and shiny varnish on my sailboat and I love maintaining that . We have an aluminum boat at the cottage with no paint , its great . I think most people just don't know they even built aluminum sailboats . There always shocked when I told them what the hull was built of.. I actually sold that boat and bought a Bristol . Not because it was aluminum but it was not a comfortable cruising boat , it was just to fast with a flat forward section . The boat still looks good and the paint held up over the years .
Looking at Garcias or Alluring Arctic made me actually appreciate that industrial look. Of course a good design considers this, will never look like a streamlined luxury appearance, these are more like Land Rovers and Humvees.
@@koborkutya7338 A lot of the top sailing super yatch's are aluminium hulls. So is this one featured in this propulsion systems feature. And this ones very retro traditional externally. ruclips.net/video/owm0z-Hdt0w/видео.html There are dozens of sleek racers and traditional ketch rigged vessels out there. I have a feeling Basalt fiber will be taking over from Glass and Carbon and even Aluminium in ice class boats... as it has advantages over all of them ...theres even a prototype 60 foot racer that was made for racing in the extreme S, Atlantic and able to butt growlers out of the way.
Great video- again. I find it weird though, that at least in Europe you get a steel boat pretty cheap whereas aluminium boats are soooo expensive on the market of used boats.
Oil does not degrade aluminum. Aluminum is used in every single car engine made and directly contains the engine oil. That said, there is a lot of to still watch out for.
My friend....I watch your videos and I want to comment on this....aluminum or aluminium is perfect IF is done perfect and professional....and in today's world that's mean MONEY...and I mean serious money....I'm very happy with the people who have the founds to make this realty but for the rest of us.....dreamers of the true life.. is a sad true reality... I wish many folks make their dreams reality
Thanks for a great topic. Aluminum definitely has its place in marine environments. But, It’s probably not completely appropriate to refer to metals susceptible to galvanic corrosion as “soft”. I can’t image any metal softer than gold or silver or lead which are extremely “noble” or highly cathodic on the galvanic scale. You are correct that aluminum is fairly anodic compared to most structural alloys …and care needs to be taken to either electrically isolate it or galvanically protect it with something more anodic like zinc or use brute force by applying an impressed current to balance out the galvanic circuit. It’s natural tendency to form an oxide film is quite beneficial in fighting corrosion. ….second only to the durable coating produced by anodizing. Coatings like paint often times produce undesirable results if the coating becomes scratched. The small area of aluminum exposed by the scratch is likely to experience a concentrated current that will rapidly “eat” through what is effectively an exposed anode.
Seems like it might be prudent to paint an aluminum boat on the inside at least, in case of an oil spill or the like. Likely you'd need some special paint though.
I work in a shipyard. We fix boats. Welding aluminum can be a pain. You may need to apply heat before welding it. It needs to be very clean. Welding it is time consuming. Tig welding is the best process. To hire a certified welder/fabricator to do the work is very expensive. If you own an aluminum boat, there will come a time to need fabrication work done. Steel is definitely a much easier material to work with than aluminum. Definitely listen to him. Aluminum boat owners will spend more money. Unless you know how to weld and fabrication of aluminum or money $$$$$ is not a big deal to you.
Great review as always. Hit the nail on the head to be Fair and honest. I love the center board Onvi 40/42. Yes it is expensive but I see 25 and 30 year old hauls looking like new before total refit Tobe a new boat for new owners...... It's one way to recycle expensive realestate I guess.... By the way, nice office furniture...... Congrats.
Like always great video , great thoughts. Now would you want to do one on epoxy plywood boats which happens to be my own boat and I like it but other people might not. Mine is actually epoxy ply epoxy kind of like a composite hull. Fiberglassed in and out which is rear. Thanks !
Tim love your channel watched you since the beginning. Curious though on your last video on Aluminum boats , thought you might have mentioned something about Kanter Yachts . As they have built Aluminum boats just down the highway from you for many years Cheers!
I think that aluminum, properly built is the best material there is for a sailboat. Cost being the main negative. And you don’t bolt to or though alum, you weld everything. No corrosion and NO leaks. NO bedding or through deck fittings, none. No leaks, no bolts through anything. Weld. And learn aluminum welding and carry a welder. All it takes is money. Oh well.
I watch the RUclips channel Distant Shores and the couple is having an aluminum boat built for them . As an aside is carbon fiber worth the cost / effort?
Aluminium boats offer the comfort of a tin container. Cold and unpleasant to touch/walk on. And fiberglas boats are much stronger than you seem to believe - and less prone to collision damage due to lighter displacement.
Great informations! Sir, what do you know about plywood-fiberglass or plywood-epoxy boats to 100ft? It's trimaran, foam insulation, Florida-Bahamas region, motor cruiser carter. TNX! 👌
Since this is a popular topic, I have a question that I'm sure someone will have the answer to: Why the concern about grounding to the hull of an Al or Fe boat? I get that you should have a single point ground and to my knowledge, it should be grounded to substantial structure like the keel. Isolating it is a safety hazard. At no other point should there be a power or signal return so you don't end up with circulating currents (ground loops) in the structure. Am I saying the same thing Tim was in the video? Is there some difference with a boat as compare to an airplane?
No you do not want to use aluminum hull as ground. With aluminum you aim to make sure that none of the electrical system ever get in contact with the hull. You do not want your hull to become a path for any kind of current. So on aluminum boat you want a "floating ground" (i.e. it is not a ground, no outside reference). Everything goes back to DC neg as ground. In particular you want to isolate your engine from the hull and your shaft from the engine. If you achieve that then there is no path for current to flow through your hull. Also if there is stray current in your marina, or wherever you are, if there is no path between your hull and something that would be at different potential than surrounding water then there is no current. Your hull end up to be at the same potential then surrounding water. Bottom line: no path -> no current -> no issue
You missed a very important advantage to a metal boat. Lightning ⚡ since you will be Incase in metel you will enclosed in a Fariday Cage. You can sleep at night during a lightning storm on a metal boat. Plus Any lightning protection you employe for your electronics will be extremely more effective than on a plactic boat since it will have a great ground/counterpoise to work with. Everything is naturaly bonded in a metal boat. Much better than throwing a pair of make me fell good jumper cables clamp on the back stay and tossed overboard with maybe 6 inches of surface area
@@WreakingHavoc18186 thanks Richard. I’ve tried Tef-zel but it’s a gel that is likely displaced when the threads are engaged. Do you see long-term efficacy?
Your description of aluminum is not correct assuming that marinegrade aluminum is used. Yes galvanic corrosion is a problem but if everything is installed correctly and tested there is very small risks with the metal. I have haad my workboat for about 35 years now and it is smeared in with about everything in oil and chemicals without problems, but yes of course it doesn’t look perfect but it doesn’t affect the strength. Maybe if you fill up the bottom with acid, but otherwise no. I think that the price of a aluminum sailbot to start with is a key factor to why there is so few aluminum boats out there.
I used to own fiberglass sailboats... now I've gone aluminium. There's no way I'd go back. Maintenance is a breeze... very dry boat (1981) and only dust can be found in the bilge. You should talk a out the plus side of aluminium sailboats not only possible corrosion (very unlikely if you're careful not to ground anything to the hull). I do lik your videos but this one lacks some content.
Aluminum starts to pit when exposed to fluids like gas and oil? You cannot possibly be that ignorant. Engine blocks. transmission casings and gas tanks are being made of aluminum by the thousands every day.
Speak of aluminium on ruder steýring it start be comon to use alue material in ruder axels '???? I look at one boat that boat have no zink on the ruder ;??? how long will it last ore how strong is it comper to stanley steal 316
You're a little misinformed. 5052 boatbuilder's aluminum has a slow reaction, even with salt water. Zincs? Yes you can zinc, but you can also prime with zinc. This is the coin opposite of people who prime or antifoul with copper paint. Weaker than steel? No. Not only is aluminum far stronger per weight than steel, you can maximize the design with aluminum extrusions, castings, and milling. Dissimilar metals? Try stainless steel nuts and bolts then stainless washers, then aluminum washers. The only real downside to aluminum is finding competent welding outside of the factory. There are quite a few eager arc welders and acetylene welders who would love to damage your boat. Competent welders are as rare as 400 LB ballerinas.
There are different grades of aluminum as well as steel and other types of material 5086 marine grade aluminum stand up to saltwater very well you do have a point however about dissimilar metals that’s why they make different types of anti-seizing compounds you do however need to be very careful in marinas and boat you are docked near as far as worrying about electrolysis. However oil and other petroleum based Products are most all of the diesel tanks are made from aluminum as well as most diesel tanks on semi trucks and if you’re buying a high-end aluminum boat most all of these considerations has been taken care of there are pros and cons to every type of material wood has worms and will rot in freshwater not so much in salt steel rust but there are types of steel commercially used in large ships that will only allow surface penetration as the recipe used to make the steel takes it into consideration and is layered with other types of alloys in the recipe However I’m not trying Say one is any better than the other cost seems to be the biggest factor as well as you stated were one will be Sailing. I do very much appreciate your channel and thank you so much for the job you do
Sorry but I have to take offence. Aluminium DOES RUST!!! Only its called oxidation. That white stuff you see on Aluminium boats ain't salt it is rust (oxidation). On a side note I highly doubt aluminium will last a 100 years due to the fact it will become brittle with age
Pound for pound, aluminum is actually stronger than steel. But pound for pound it is also 3 times the volume. The advantage of aluminum comes when it is in the form or tubing or beams, where thinner, lighter sections are used in tension or compression. Much like building with fiberglass sandwich, you multiply the strength of the material many times. If you built an aluminum boat as heavy as a steel boat, you'd have a ¾" thick hull that would obliterate anything you hit. But if you bent 6061 square tubing over forms and edge welded them together, you would have something stiffer than anything short of carbon fiber, but so thin skinned it would get riddled with dents. As a side note, I once saw a giant robot tyrannosaurus called Robosaurus, at an air show. It was famous for being able to rip junk cars apart. They thought it would be fun to ha e it tear apart a derelict Cesna 151, one of the smallest, lightest aluminum production airplanes. It couldn't hurt the thing. Other than some ripples where the hydraulic claws grabbed the wings and body, the cesna survived almost intact, while the field was littered with shredded 400 lb cars.
I know you are trying to be objective, but I am sorry to say that this presentation comes across as being somewhat ill-informed on the topic of aluminium boats. Many of the issues you raise are either exaggerated or simply not a problem. I say this as the owner of an Alubat OVNI, which is constructed entirely from aluminium. Corrosion is not an issue, so long as some basic precautions are observed. All OVNI’s have an electrical leak meter on the electrical panel, as standard equipment. The presence of a leak will be immediately detected and alarmed. Anodes are zinc and last 2-3 seasons. Galvanic corrosion risks can be avoided by installing an isolation transformer, which most larger OVNI’s have as standard equipment. The electrical system on my boat is no more complicated than what I would expect on any modern boat of equivalent size. OVNI’s are renowned as being highly robust, go-anywhere, blue water yachts. I would much sooner cross the Atlantic in an Aluminium boat than in something build of fibreglass. In the event of a collision with a large floating object, such as a container, aluminium will deform and dent, but is able to absorb the impact without allow water ingress. Fibreglass on the other hand, will shatter, potentially causing the boat to start taking on water. In recent months, there have been reports of Orcas attacking yachts off the coast of Portugal and in the Bay of Biscay. Several Fibreglass boats have sustained serious damage to their rudders, and have had to be lifted out for repairs. However, when an OVNI suffered a similar attack, the result was scratches to the anti fouling paint, and most likely an Orca with a few broken teeth. The rudder on my boat is 1.5 inch thick solid aluminium plate. The deck and hull of an OVNI are fully welded, making for a very stiff, strong boat. Production fibreglass yachts, such as Hanse and Beneteau, are nowhere near as strong. Suggest you do a bit more research, and check out Boreal, Alubat, Allures, KM Yachts, and Garcia. All rugged bluewater yachts and all built from aluminium.
I realise this is an old thread, but I'm glad I read your comment. I am looking at an aluminium Tucker 31from 1972 but cannot find much about these boats on the internet. What I do know is that the hull is 8mm throughout and 5mm for the deck. It looks to be in very good condition for its age and the price is attractive at £12500. I have narrowed my search down to this and a Beneteau First 305 at £10k. Similar sized boats but the first has a yanmar 2GM20F and the Tucker a beta 35. Difficult choice
We love our Alubat OVNI 39, and you are wrong on a few items about corrosion/Galvanic series and durability. Comparing an aluminum anode to the alu used in hull construction is an apples to oranges comparison. Check out our aluminum boat sailing channel (where we actually sail vs talk about it) ruclips.net/video/2OdEFgZy2A8/видео.html Cheers, Gizmo Crew
Im discovering Aluminum,,, face it, The Caribbean is not a good place to be post Pandemic, upper latitudes are becoming more of a Sane choice.... insulated Aluminum is the way to go i figure....
After the surface is clean, apply a thin coat of motor oil and kerosene fluid (it's noncombustible) sparingly over the entire surface. This will protect the metal from future oxidation. Repeat every six months. If aluminum is around salt water, repeat process every 90 days.
"motor sailer" even better absolutely. Aluminum prices are plunging suddenly making very large displacement that can maintain stiffness and rigidity plus resist rusting and fouling. Generally not used because of expense of welding but because of US Space Program ("friction welding") this problem at retail level has by and large now been solved to the point where actual sailing ships might suddenly make a return to use for niche operations absolutely absolutely absolutely.
Another happy aluminium yacht owner here. Regarding welding the deck fittings on, much stronger than bolting, another advantages is no through hull fittings. It creates a very dry boat, most aluminium boat owners talk about vacuuming their bilge, not sponging it.. Another benefit is that I have no seacocks, many aluminium yachts have standing pipes welded in for water intake (eg, toilet water inlet). There are advantages and disadvantages to every building material, it just comes back to personal preference. Thanks.
To be clear rust is a type of corrosion (the wearing-away of metal), and to put it simply, aluminium does not rust, but it does corrode. Although these terms are often used interchangeably, they are fundamentally different.
As with any metal, when it comes into contact with oxygen, an oxide layer will form on aluminium. Unlike with other metals such as iron or steel, the layer of aluminium oxide is actually protective - it’s hard, thin and fairly transparent, and is tricky to remove, unlike rust. As it’s not very noticeable and actually protects the metal, aluminium oxidation isn’t a big problem.
Aluminum boats aren’t as bad as you think. The difference between an aluminum anode and the material used in boat construction is completely different. Quality aluminum boats are built out of 6160-T6. Anodes are a much softer material.
Look at Kanter Yachts in St. Thomas. They make some of the best aluminum boats in the world. Also most of the mega yachts are built in aluminum.
I do boat surveying and between aluminum and steel, I have seen some very rusty steel boats. But have never come across an aluminum boat with big gaping holes from corrosion.
I dont know if youre talking about American motor-yatchs/fishing boats on t6 alluminium, but Quality aluminum sail-boats (Boréal, Bestevaer, Garcia, Alubat/Ovni etc) are all are made with 5086/5083, not "6160-T6"
@@lrvz7187 Strongly agree - 5083 it is - 6000 series is an engineering grade ALU - 5000 series is more ductile and this is what you want - hit something very hard and ALU simply bends or deflects but does not hole - of course best not to hit anything but life happens.
I lived aboard the Tole More, a 165 foot 3 masted gaff rigged schooner. She has teak decks and an aluminum hull. No complaints whatsoever. From Erie PA to Hawaii, she was a dream! 13 knots, oh yeah!
An Aluminium can also be used as a heat transfer for the heat generated by AC or the engines, meaning you do not require sea water heat exchangers that become blocked with barnacles. Aluminium does not burn like fibreglass does, so more safe if a fire does start. Aluminium is recyclable, not just burnt or put into landfill. Aluminium is easier to repair from the outside for temporary fix, just screw on some gasketed sheets. You cant epoxy a hole in a fibreglass boat when underwater.
I may stand corrected in my assertion but my understanding with regards to the limited number of aluminium yachts on the water is largely due to the limited number of yards around the globe that are capable of producing them. Yes, I'm aware that there are quite a few commercial vessel manufacturers but how many sailing vessel manufacturers are there that possess the plant and skills to build aluminium recreational yachts? Not many would be my presumption.
The synopsis in this presentation is very good. I would add to it that with the exception of the potential effects of contaminated oil, all of the issues that affect aluminium yachts certainly affect steel yachts equally. I'm in Australia and there are a lot of aluminium commercial fishing/abalone/oyster vessels located in Darwin, which is a particularly harsh environment for just about anything. I've also had the luxury of sailing on Kookaburra 2 which is a 12 metre rule yacht built in 1985. That boat was built to absolutely minimum spec and despite that, it's still racing at least weekly 37 years later. I'd be interested to hear comments.
"places you wouldn't take a little fiberglass boat"...you mean like Svalbard on a Pearson 36? 😂
Another great episode Tim, thanks for the time, energy, and research you put into these.
LOL Check @SailingUma and their "little" glass Uma doing just that. .ruclips.net/video/VO9XssNPUz0/видео.html
Or sailing a junk rigg converted North Atlantic 29 through the NW-Passage like Chris & Jess Bray
(YT Yacht Teleport). Or do a nonstop around the Americas including NW-Passage and Cape Horn in a 27-foot Albin Vega like Matt Rutherford.
However, most people that go into the high latitudes for longer will take the safety of aluminium. And with good reason. You wouldn't try a freeze in over winter like Guirec Soudée in fibre glass either ....
The US coast guard has been successfully running aluminum boats for decades. When I was there in the 80’s maintaining a couple of 41’ we just replaced zincs every year or two along with bottom paint. On the daily and weekly just wash off salt spray to keep corrosion away. Now the Navy has tested and found that much larger ships of aluminum are not the best material for their missions.
Really?
I thought the US Navy is building heaps of them now, Littoral Combat ships based on a Commercial Fast Ferry out of Australia, last I heard they were buying/building more.
What has changed recently?
I would certainly opt for steel over aluminum myself because I used to be a welder. With steel, you were right in saying you could carry around a welder and I could teach almost anyone how to weld steel effectively. Aluminum on the other hand definitely needs to be maintained by a pro. Welding aluminum is so different than steel and you can make a small issue way worse in an instant trying to maintain aluminum hull by yourself. Can you learn to weld aluminum? Sure but it will never be as easy as steel to fix.
You’re correct as far as the difficulties difference, but aluminum is far from being hard to weld. With a small Tig unit, repairs / modifications are pretty easy.
Hey, never heard of engine oil being detrimental to aluminium. Btw one great thing of aluminium to be mentioned is that you can dispose of it properly once the boat lifetime is out. Fibreglass sailboats are piling up at various places of the world because practically it is extremely difficult to recycle them. In Europe we see that people tend to just abandon them at places where the community or some authority will have to remove them and have it replaced on the community's expense. In alu boats it will never be an issue, even if they reach their end of life (which is, as you also said, can be extremely long). I read a statisic that cca 70% of the aluminium ever produced is still in circulation. These big hulls, masts and booms are prime examples of well recyclability (if there is such a word?).
The biggest problem I actually agree with you, is the price range. The alu boats from builders of established reputation tend to be like way up there in terms of price. Even when used.
I was wondering about that too (engine oil). Airplanes have been made out of aluminum for a LONG time and I've never seen corrosion as a result of oil or fuel coming in contact with the skin or structure. At the same time, I think I'd want the aluminum surface treated with anti-corrosive paint (zinc chromate was the classic one until it was banned) just to help avoid that problem.
Shouldn't unless its particularly acid or its had certain metals added to it.
Al doesnt rust per say it oxidizes but that stops at a certain depth ...anodizing is a protective process that creates a deeper protective layer ... Thats actually very hard to scratch and resistant to attack.
Hence the expedition yatchs often being left bare.. on flyingboats of old they used to plaster the bilge compartments with lanolin. Marine grades of Al are as variable as specialist Steels.
The other point is if your riveting steel components to Al you had best be using the Special composition rivets...
and ive forgot the name.🤦🏻♂️
That said if you want to see the ultimate short handed giant explorer yatch have a look at Beowulf ... By Steve Dashew
ruclips.net/video/yrDxYkSI710/видео.html
Most of the performance work boats and Australian or NZ build a lot of Al hull boats... Sailing Jupiter is the first Channel that springs to mind. Again Dutch German and Scandi companies tend to excell in building.
Garcia build their Al hulled Explorer cats.
If you want to paint Al you need to use an acid etch primer to key it to the Al and get the paint to stick to the primer.
The other issue is thermal insulation Al is a brilliant conductor of heat ... So any Al live aboard vessel will need insulating from heat loss or tropical solar gains...and to control condensation. ..but that should be standard on any metal hulled vessel.
The French have launched a scrappage scheme for dealing with all the old glass boats .. i think they grind them up to add to Concrete. ..there are companies that have developed New resins that allow Glass fibers to be separated from the resins and both re claimed.
It was in one of the online yatching mags ...they did a big article on alternative and greener materials being developed in boat building...
Cars by comparison have been for some time by law built to be a min. Of 80% recyclable.
Explosive hydraulic forming of Aluminium hulls has been around since the 1990s ...and if you forgive the pun you can knock a hull form out in a few minutes up to a given size... I think it was first developed in NZ ...to get seam free curved hull profiles like on racers of the period.
@@dmccorvey Perhaps the issue is that Al boats with Fe engines in them will end up producing dirty oil with small bits of iron in it? Just guessing.
Contaminated oil can corrode aluminium. Acidic microbial excretions can be a problem but it is more common in diesel than engine oil. Engine oil may also become acidic with age and may also contain materials that are incompatible with aluminium. If My memory serves me correctly (it mightn't!), I don't think that some aluminium alloys and carbon play nicely together. Used engine oil contains carbon.
Having said that, in a past life I worked on vintage aircraft. Corrosion mitigation was amongst my jobs. I never saw corrosion resulting from engine oil deposits but I am cognisant of the fact that different alloys, the absence of salt water as an electrolyte and low hour oil might account for this.
New mineral oil was used to lubricate hinge mechanisms on control surfaces.
not sure its been mentioned by another commenter, but the reason aluminum isnt painted is corrosion. Raw aluminum very quickly forms a layer of AL-oxide which is protective. If you paint or otherwise seal aluminum, it allows any corrosion to spread rapidly, and unseen. I cant remember the chemistry of it, but anoxic aluminum is highly susceptible to salt corrosion, and that loves to exist in that oxygen free area.
Distant Shores is documenting their construction of an aluminum sailboat at the moment. But on another note, when I lived on Protection Island in Nanaimo one of my friends had a welded aluminum boat. When he moved off the island he couldn't sell the thing because the sheets were slightly made of different marine aluminum batches and suffered from dissolving rot and couldn't do anything about it. I knew they were finicky but this was a new one. Buy twice as much of the same batch and use half if it? .. Cheers to you ..
I realize your format is easily digestible, not highly technical. Still it's important to not be incorrect. So please take this as constructive. Corrosion by stray current is electrolysis, not galvanic corrosion. Corrosion through dis-similar metals is galvanic corrosion. Steel and aluminum are both rugged, strong materials. But strength is not a single property, as I believe you understand. Maybe this is another place where your audience could be informed just a little more without being too technical, just as you did when comparing fiberglass high tensile strength to steel isotropic strength. If aluminum is built to the weight of steel, it is stiffer "stronger" globally and takes more energy to crush, dent, hole, buckle, etc. Steel is hard and abrasion resistant as well as "strong" so it is exceptionally rugged overall. That's all assuming aluminum's great strength is not used to make the boat as light as possible, which just like fiberglass, can result in a boat which is strong enough as a whole, but less than rugged in places.
And the stray currents that result in electrolysis need not be supplied by your vessels electrical system. Someone welding on a steel boat in close proximity could really spoil your day.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 The galvanic corrosion start because two metals have potential difference, once they are together, one became cathode (lower/and or positive voltage) and the other anode (higher/and or negative voltage).
Example: Aluminum has -1.67 Volt and Steel -0.44 Volt the difference is 1.23Volt, these tho elements together will make the aluminum corrode.
The best is to be as close as zero, on the same example if you put Aluminum with Beryllium no corrosion will occur as the two material are almost at zero on potential difference.
Download a galvanic corrosion table and you can see the value on each metal.
As a general rule 0.2volt differential is considered safe.
Aluminum has one incredible advantage over steel, once the surface is oxidate, there is no longer conductivity, (that is the reason why they don’t paint them, they basically need to naturally oxidized) and that is why modern military boat are all in aluminum and not in steel, they literally last lifetime.
Don’t worry about electricity issues once the surface is oxidate is no longer conductive.
No current no corrosion.
If you like to do a test take a multimeter tester put on close/open circuit mode ohms (beep when two probes touches) and touch the hull from one side to the other at any distance you will notice after the boat was in the water for a while it won’t beep anymore.
Most of the hulls uses aluminum 5083, 5086, and 6061 series alloy, the mast in most of the sailboat are in 7029 series, which is an extrudable 7000 series alloy very strong flexible and corrosion resistance.
Conclusion: if you have the money aluminum boat are far superior than any other material, especially on salt water.
The downside is if you manage to damage them they are more hard to fix on the go.
At the end is just a choice and budget!
Cheers
@@dhbeto Great information thanks. I thought aluminum is an affordable material. The Cyber cats by Tim Mumby seems to be quite affordable.
@@dhbeto Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. You make some very interesting observations, particularly pertaining to aluminimium oxidistation and its propensity to act as a dielectric. This has to make it a vastly superior material to steel from both a perspective of galvanic corrosion and electrolysis.
I hadn't considered that in this context. Aluminium is quite a reactive material but of course the oxide thereof is anything but reactive. Thank you for your informed reply.
“More rare than I like my steaks” - shows a picture of a Holstein cow. I guess he is a sailor not a rancher.
Haha Holsteins attitudes make you want to turn them into steaks though.
@@kalebdeese3192 Or, maybe just grind them into hamburger . . . .
@@jfuite better suited for that for sure.
Thanks for the quick response in having an aluminum boat discussion. BZ.
Another RUclips sailing channel is Life on Jupiter. Jamie the owner is sailing a Mumby Cyber 48 cat made out of aluminum. He would be a good resource for you to talk to about living with an aluminum sail boat as he has been on his for over 2 years having sailed from Thailand across both the Indian and Atlantic and recently did the Great Loop and is currently back in the GoM.
Other channels include Alluring Arctic, Seas & Summits, and the classic, White Spot Pirates which featured a lot of galvanic problems in the past.
Yeah that Mumby 48 foot Cat he has is 6.5 tons dry, can sail really well in a light breeze, its stronger, stiffer and lighter by a long shot than an equivalent Glass boat, Australians build a lot of Aluminium boats including fast commercial ferries of thousands of tons in Cat and Tri versions that can go 30/40 knots as standard, one of them is the company building Littoral Combat ships for the American Navy.
One thing ive heard with the french boats in particular that annoys owners is the wave slap under the transom and sides which is quite loud in certain conditions.
Thx mate, a well presented discussion of the pros and cons of Aluminium ( and thx for acknowledging the different pronunciations😉). Galvanic corrosion is of course possible on fibreglass boats as well particularly with the dissimilar metals issue in the presence of salt water, most notably in the standing rigging, not a good scenario. This means of course that the attention to electrical isolation is a vital requirement for any vessel, steel, aluminium or fibre glass. (unless you have the kind of budget that allows for an entirely composite hull, mast, standing rig, through hulls, mountings, anntenae and any other elements that are subject to salt water immersion. Even then you have to have some way of channelling a lightning strike to earth without blowing holes in critical structures, let alone electronics. Been there done that....)
So... I think there are some excellent builders who make both sailing and power vessels from aluminium. Note that many modern military vessels are now primarily aluminium in construction and that there is a body of knowledge out there to draw on regarding the issues you have raised. I like the collision tolerance elements, Aluminium bends, deforms rather than shatters, good for adventures far from help, I like the options that are offered by the major Aluminium boat builders, swing keel, cutter rigs, and I like the strength to weight ratio of the right alloys. Note also that aircraft are largely aluminium constructions and spend most oil their lives out in the weather, and all of the issues associated with maintenance and corrosion are dealt with there too, thank god..
Anyway thanks again for your presentation. good work.
cheers from Australia. the Dr.
Aluminum hull sailboats seem to be much more common in Europe (especially Nordic areas, likely due to the ice). Was looking around at Meta 36~50 ft boats recently... they are almost impossible to find in the US... and when you find them (used) in Europe they are either very expensive ($600k+) or 40+ years old and need a full refit. lol. Although I did find a pretty nice looking 1983 Ted Brewer 46' aluminum hull boat in northern WA for ~$90k, but it needs new sails and a full refit/renovation.
Fibreglass is actually far stronger than both than steel or aluminium. But it has less impact and abrasion resistance, it will fracture rather than dent, which is bad if you don't want water in your boat. You are right that it doesn't have isotropic strength too, but that's not too much of an issue on a boat as most of the forces are predictable and linear.
Great episode, learned a lot about alu boats.
I would like you to make some episodes about Swedish sail boats. Would be great to see you talk about Orust island boats like Hallberg Rassy, Malö, Najad, Vindö, Regina, Fantasi, Forgus, Swedish yachts but also other boats like Albin (The Albin Vega) and others.
Here in Europe aluminium sailboats are very desirable and getting more so.
France and the Netherlands are leading the way.
Boreal, KM Yachts & Garcia to name a few.
Corrosion or electrolysis is a real issue on older models and rightly very unforgiving with electrical mistakes.
I would be avoiding older aluminium boats but definitely looking at newer models.
Especially for high latitude sailing.
Thanks 🙏 for the great content.
Hello From which year would you consider aluminium boats to be less problematic regarding 'electrical mistakes'?
Why is corrosion or electrolysis on the older models a problem? Is the problem with the hull materials specifications or is it the electrical system? Would replacing the electrical system solve the problem?
If you had a trailer sized aluminum boat, you would find it easier to maintain than any boat you've ever touched. Unless you make gross mistakes, proper aluminum alloys are solid and lasting and way stronger per weight than steel. Aluminum is often subject to harsh criticism.
Susan & Tony here, We are currently looking at an aluminum boat , it has been painted. We are most likely not going to make a deal . Your info was helpful.
I have an aluminium hull, teak on plywood deck Koopmans 35 from 1982. It needs some TLC, so I'm fixing her up bit-by-bit. Every marina I visit in the Mediterranean has at least one or two aluminium sailing yachts.
I can't wait to start building my 32ft aluminium sail boat, as I mentioned in your steel video ( and you as well), build or buy a boat out of the material you can work with.
i know wood is no pc any more but would love your thoughts on it
u just helped me answer an age old question. why some boats are hit/damaged by lightening more than others, even of the same make and model.
they answer is obvious. upgraded electronics rarely include upgrades to the ground straps/system let alone the anodes.
is it not true that too many anodes causes problems also, not as bad as not enough, but left un checked could lead to catastrophic failures?
Most working boats in many industries around the world are built in steel or aluminium. Many spend most of their time at sea, in nearly all conditions, 24 hours a day. Hardly any of them choose to use fibreglass.
Greatest aluminium sailboat ever made: Paratii 2
My last sailboat was aluminum, 48 feet built in south Africa . I liked the boat but it was noisy inside in a sea way and forget about keeping paint on it . I bought it unpainted and faired and painted the hull and deck myself . took me two years. Bare aluminum turns ugly fast and starts looking like bare concrete . I got asked often if the boat was cement .
P.S. I like the rugged commercial look of bare aluminum topsides. Especially on a design that pays some tribute to working craft design. I don't know if you were getting asked out of ignorance or something else. There are some conceited jerks in the yacht world.
@@artfulalias3984
That final statement sadly seems too common James Wharram fought against it all his life.. but ive come to see it
In a lot of posts .. its like ..you cannot afford to buy/pay for this so you shouldn't do this or try to do it... especially if its in the same places i visit...🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️😖
Some times the doers have bust a gut for years doing it themselves and learned how to DIY . And Whoh.. betide any one who tries or has to do anything different.🤷🏻♂️🧙♂️
Thankfully we still have the legacy of the likes of Wharram to inspire youngsters like Wildings Sailing and thousands of others building their own dreams to keep going.
Before i got interested in boats i grew up in an engineering familly and with a love of unusual aircraft ...flyingboats and amphibians were one of my
areas of particular interest.
@@artfulalias3984 I get it , I like the aluminum look as well , on the right boat . Personally I like shinny topsides and shiny varnish on my sailboat and I love maintaining that . We have an aluminum boat at the cottage with no paint , its great . I think most people just don't know they even built aluminum sailboats . There always shocked when I told them what the hull was built of.. I actually sold that boat and bought a Bristol . Not because it was aluminum but it was not a comfortable cruising boat , it was just to fast with a flat forward section . The boat still looks good and the paint held up over the years .
Looking at Garcias or Alluring Arctic made me actually appreciate that industrial look. Of course a good design considers this, will never look like a streamlined luxury appearance, these are more like Land Rovers and Humvees.
@@koborkutya7338
A lot of the top sailing super yatch's are aluminium hulls.
So is this one featured in this propulsion systems feature.
And this ones very retro traditional externally.
ruclips.net/video/owm0z-Hdt0w/видео.html
There are dozens of sleek racers and traditional ketch rigged vessels out there.
I have a feeling Basalt fiber will be taking over from Glass and Carbon and even Aluminium in ice class boats... as it has advantages over all of them ...theres even a prototype 60 foot racer that was made for racing in the extreme S, Atlantic
and able to butt growlers out of the way.
There’s Pros & Cons to all materials, like anything, Due Diligence.
For me, Ali provides confidence in unfamiliar waters.
Great video- again. I find it weird though, that at least in Europe you get a steel boat pretty cheap whereas aluminium boats are soooo expensive on the market of used boats.
Oil does not degrade aluminum. Aluminum is used in every single car engine made and directly contains the engine oil. That said, there is a lot of to still watch out for.
My friend....I watch your videos and I want to comment on this....aluminum or aluminium is perfect IF is done perfect and professional....and in today's world that's mean MONEY...and I mean serious money....I'm very happy with the people who have the founds to make this realty but for the rest of us.....dreamers of the true life.. is a sad true reality... I wish many folks make their dreams reality
Those Dutch Bestaever aluminium yachts are just plain gorgeous, and tough, but for circa $700k for a 36 footer, it's insane.
And do not forget concrete hulls!
Thanks for a great topic.
Aluminum definitely has its place in marine environments.
But,
It’s probably not completely appropriate to refer to metals susceptible to galvanic corrosion as “soft”.
I can’t image any metal softer than gold or silver or lead which are extremely “noble” or highly cathodic on the galvanic scale.
You are correct that aluminum is fairly anodic compared to most structural alloys …and care needs to be taken to either electrically isolate it or galvanically protect it with something more anodic like zinc or use brute force by applying an impressed current to balance out the galvanic circuit.
It’s natural tendency to form an oxide film is quite beneficial in fighting corrosion.
….second only to the durable coating produced by anodizing.
Coatings like paint often times produce undesirable results if the coating becomes scratched.
The small area of aluminum exposed by the scratch is likely to experience a concentrated current that will rapidly “eat” through what is effectively an exposed anode.
Aluminium boats are more common in the UK , with Ovni being the one I've seen most of
We love our 'ALUMINIUM' Ovni 39
lol that Will Smith joke was great
White spot pirate channel has a Aluminum hull
Think I remember a couple yrs back she had some corrosion issues with it.
If you mean SV Karl, I think she is steel
@@koborkutya7338 He's aluminum. Nike had/has a nightmare with corrosion in the hull and the fuel tanks
Aluminum made Mercury tanker... [insert Dramatic Sloth]
Nice touch with the "innocent" placement of the Will Smith autobiography. I could see the corrosion occurring already.
Seems like it might be prudent to paint an aluminum boat on the inside at least, in case of an oil spill or the like. Likely you'd need some special paint though.
I work in a shipyard. We fix boats. Welding aluminum can be a pain. You may need to apply heat before welding it. It needs to be very clean. Welding it is time consuming. Tig welding is the best process. To hire a certified welder/fabricator to do the work is very expensive. If you own an aluminum boat, there will come a time to need fabrication work done. Steel is definitely a much easier material to work with than aluminum.
Definitely listen to him. Aluminum boat owners will spend more money. Unless you know how to weld and fabrication of aluminum or money $$$$$ is not a big deal to you.
🤣😂 wake you harder than Will Smith can smack! lmao
I can't wait to see 2DPA-1 used in a sailboat. Seems very promising.
Oh I didnt even know what that was had to look it up, wow could be wild stuff, I can see some top shelf high speed boats being built with that.
Great review as always. Hit the nail on the head to be Fair and honest. I love the center board Onvi 40/42. Yes it is expensive but I see 25 and 30 year old hauls looking like new before total refit Tobe a new boat for new owners...... It's one way to recycle expensive realestate I guess.... By the way, nice office furniture...... Congrats.
Distant Shores channel is in the process of getting an aluminum sail boat built
There is not much maintenance on aluminum boat. What maintenance are you talking about? just you need to change anodes regularly
Like always great video , great thoughts. Now would you want to do one on epoxy plywood boats which happens to be my own boat and I like it but other people might not. Mine is actually epoxy ply epoxy kind of like a composite hull. Fiberglassed in and out which is rear. Thanks !
Tim love your channel watched you since the beginning. Curious though on your last video on Aluminum boats , thought you might have mentioned something about Kanter Yachts . As they have built Aluminum boats just down the highway from you for many years
Cheers!
I think that aluminum, properly built is the best material there is for a sailboat. Cost being the main negative. And you don’t bolt to or though alum, you weld everything. No corrosion and NO leaks. NO bedding or through deck fittings, none. No leaks, no bolts through anything. Weld. And learn aluminum welding and carry a welder. All it takes is money. Oh well.
I watch the RUclips channel Distant Shores and the couple is having an aluminum boat built for them . As an aside is carbon fiber worth the cost / effort?
Aluminium boats offer the comfort of a tin container. Cold and unpleasant to touch/walk on. And fiberglas boats are much stronger than you seem to believe - and less prone to collision damage due to lighter displacement.
Great informations! Sir, what do you know about plywood-fiberglass or plywood-epoxy boats to 100ft? It's trimaran, foam insulation, Florida-Bahamas region, motor cruiser carter. TNX! 👌
nice video, as usual
Looks easyer to take care about rust in an aluminium boat than caring about rust and obligatory painting in a steel one.
Why do Americans say "ALUMINUM" but then say "MAGNESIUM" ?
And then call petrol, which is a liquid GAS ?????
Periodic table was not meant to be re-written..
Since this is a popular topic, I have a question that I'm sure someone will have the answer to: Why the concern about grounding to the hull of an Al or Fe boat? I get that you should have a single point ground and to my knowledge, it should be grounded to substantial structure like the keel. Isolating it is a safety hazard. At no other point should there be a power or signal return so you don't end up with circulating currents (ground loops) in the structure. Am I saying the same thing Tim was in the video? Is there some difference with a boat as compare to an airplane?
No you do not want to use aluminum hull as ground. With aluminum you aim to make sure that none of the electrical system ever get in contact with the hull. You do not want your hull to become a path for any kind of current. So on aluminum boat you want a "floating ground" (i.e. it is not a ground, no outside reference). Everything goes back to DC neg as ground. In particular you want to isolate your engine from the hull and your shaft from the engine.
If you achieve that then there is no path for current to flow through your hull. Also if there is stray current in your marina, or wherever you are, if there is no path between your hull and something that would be at different potential than surrounding water then there is no current. Your hull end up to be at the same potential then surrounding water.
Bottom line: no path -> no current -> no issue
Aluminium is a less noble metal. Not softer.
"Softer" was in quotes
@@LadyKSailing Sorry. I must have looked away at that second. It's a tricky balance how much to dump it down for general consumption
I was really hoping you would cover Aluminum sailboats!
And what about coppernickel?
You missed a very important advantage to a metal boat. Lightning ⚡ since you will be Incase in metel you will enclosed in a Fariday Cage. You can sleep at night during a lightning storm on a metal boat. Plus Any lightning protection you employe for your electronics will be extremely more effective than on a plactic boat since it will have a great ground/counterpoise to work with. Everything is naturaly bonded in a metal boat. Much better than throwing a pair of make me fell good jumper cables clamp on the back stay and tossed overboard with maybe 6 inches of surface area
Dissimilar metals, steel cleats, hmmmm; what’s your take on aluminum masts with stainless stays/shrouds and steel cleats with metal winches?
How do you protect an aluminum boom or mast from stainless? I’ve been wrapping Teflon tape around the SS screws/bolts. Is this adequate longer term?
Use Tef-Gel or Duralac as a barrier between the stainless and aluminum.
@@WreakingHavoc18186 thanks Richard. I’ve tried Tef-zel but it’s a gel that is likely displaced when the threads are engaged. Do you see long-term efficacy?
I was wondering if spraying with zinc corrosion primer might be more permanent
Duralac actually dries and creates a barrier between the metals.
Your description of aluminum is not correct assuming that marinegrade aluminum is used. Yes galvanic corrosion is a problem but if everything is installed correctly and tested there is very small risks with the metal. I have haad my workboat for about 35 years now and it is smeared in with about everything in oil and chemicals without problems, but yes of course it doesn’t look perfect but it doesn’t affect the strength. Maybe if you fill up the bottom with acid, but otherwise no.
I think that the price of a aluminum sailbot to start with is a key factor to why there is so few aluminum boats out there.
Lol I call Al3 :-) nice job. Fe3 weights .281 lbs per inch cubed, Al3 weighs 0.1 lbs per inch cubed.
Using sacrificial metal has nothing to do with it being soft. hardness is not an electrochemical property.
0:05 that boat won a shootout with Somali pirates
? does an unpainted aluminum boat attract sea creatures barnacles & other growth or is it toxic to them ?
This video cleared up many questions I had about Aluminum boat’s. Thank you ✌️
You had to put a picture of Will..huh
I used to own fiberglass sailboats... now I've gone aluminium. There's no way I'd go back.
Maintenance is a breeze... very dry boat (1981) and only dust can be found in the bilge.
You should talk a out the plus side of aluminium sailboats not only possible corrosion (very unlikely if you're careful not to ground anything to the hull).
I do lik your videos but this one lacks some content.
Does anyone make a titanium sailboat?
New digs?
If oil pits aluminum, how do aluminum Honda car engines last 300,000 miles?
They'd go a million if the steel body didn't rust out around it!
Aluminum starts to pit when exposed to fluids like gas and oil? You cannot possibly be that ignorant. Engine blocks. transmission casings and gas tanks are being made of aluminum by the thousands every day.
next up, wooden boats
That's a rotten subject that could take you down a worm hole! Sorry, I couldn't help myself, I'm a dad.
Speak of aluminium on ruder steýring it start be comon to use alue material in ruder axels '???? I look at one boat that boat have no zink on the ruder ;??? how long will it last ore how strong is it comper to stanley steal 316
this would be my choice.
You're a little misinformed. 5052 boatbuilder's aluminum has a slow reaction, even with salt water. Zincs? Yes you can zinc, but you can also prime with zinc. This is the coin opposite of people who prime or antifoul with copper paint. Weaker than steel? No. Not only is aluminum far stronger per weight than steel, you can maximize the design with aluminum extrusions, castings, and milling. Dissimilar metals? Try stainless steel nuts and bolts then stainless washers, then aluminum washers. The only real downside to aluminum is finding competent welding outside of the factory. There are quite a few eager arc welders and acetylene welders who would love to damage your boat. Competent welders are as rare as 400 LB ballerinas.
There are different grades of aluminum as well as steel and other types of material 5086 marine grade aluminum stand up to saltwater very well you do have a point however about dissimilar metals that’s why they make different types of anti-seizing compounds you do however need to be very careful in marinas and boat you are docked near as far as worrying about electrolysis. However oil and other petroleum based Products are most all of the diesel tanks are made from aluminum as well as most diesel tanks on semi trucks and if you’re buying a high-end aluminum boat most all of these considerations has been taken care of there are pros and cons to every type of material wood has worms and will rot in freshwater not so much in salt steel rust but there are types of steel commercially used in large ships that will only allow surface penetration as the recipe used to make the steel takes it into consideration and is layered with other types of alloys in the recipe However I’m not trying Say one is any better than the other cost seems to be the biggest factor as well as you stated were one will be Sailing. I do very much appreciate your channel and thank you so much for the job you do
Sorry but I have to take offence. Aluminium DOES RUST!!! Only its called oxidation. That white stuff you see on Aluminium boats ain't salt it is rust (oxidation).
On a side note I highly doubt aluminium will last a 100 years due to the fact it will become brittle with age
Pound for pound, aluminum is actually stronger than steel. But pound for pound it is also 3 times the volume. The advantage of aluminum comes when it is in the form or tubing or beams, where thinner, lighter sections are used in tension or compression. Much like building with fiberglass sandwich, you multiply the strength of the material many times.
If you built an aluminum boat as heavy as a steel boat, you'd have a ¾" thick hull that would obliterate anything you hit. But if you bent 6061 square tubing over forms and edge welded them together, you would have something stiffer than anything short of carbon fiber, but so thin skinned it would get riddled with dents.
As a side note, I once saw a giant robot tyrannosaurus called Robosaurus, at an air show. It was famous for being able to rip junk cars apart. They thought it would be fun to ha e it tear apart a derelict Cesna 151, one of the smallest, lightest aluminum production airplanes. It couldn't hurt the thing. Other than some ripples where the hydraulic claws grabbed the wings and body, the cesna survived almost intact, while the field was littered with shredded 400 lb cars.
Oops. 4000 pound cars.
I know you are trying to be objective, but I am sorry to say that this presentation comes across as being somewhat ill-informed on the topic of aluminium boats. Many of the issues you raise are either exaggerated or simply not a problem. I say this as the owner of an Alubat OVNI, which is constructed entirely from aluminium. Corrosion is not an issue, so long as some basic precautions are observed. All OVNI’s have an electrical leak meter on the electrical panel, as standard equipment. The presence of a leak will be immediately detected and alarmed. Anodes are zinc and last 2-3 seasons. Galvanic corrosion risks can be avoided by installing an isolation transformer, which most larger OVNI’s have as standard equipment. The electrical system on my boat is no more complicated than what I would expect on any modern boat of equivalent size.
OVNI’s are renowned as being highly robust, go-anywhere, blue water yachts. I would much sooner cross the Atlantic in an Aluminium boat than in something build of fibreglass. In the event of a collision with a large floating object, such as a container, aluminium will deform and dent, but is able to absorb the impact without allow water ingress. Fibreglass on the other hand, will shatter, potentially causing the boat to start taking on water. In recent months, there have been reports of Orcas attacking yachts off the coast of Portugal and in the Bay of Biscay. Several Fibreglass boats have sustained serious damage to their rudders, and have had to be lifted out for repairs. However, when an OVNI suffered a similar attack, the result was scratches to the anti fouling paint, and most likely an Orca with a few broken teeth. The rudder on my boat is 1.5 inch thick solid aluminium plate.
The deck and hull of an OVNI are fully welded, making for a very stiff, strong boat. Production fibreglass yachts, such as Hanse and Beneteau, are nowhere near as strong.
Suggest you do a bit more research, and check out Boreal, Alubat, Allures, KM Yachts, and Garcia. All rugged bluewater yachts and all built from aluminium.
Agreed, he's half informed and should do some homework and redo this video. It's given many people the wrong impression
I realise this is an old thread, but I'm glad I read your comment. I am looking at an aluminium Tucker 31from 1972 but cannot find much about these boats on the internet. What I do know is that the hull is 8mm throughout and 5mm for the deck. It looks to be in very good condition for its age and the price is attractive at £12500. I have narrowed my search down to this and a Beneteau First 305 at £10k. Similar sized boats but the first has a yanmar 2GM20F and the Tucker a beta 35. Difficult choice
We love our Alubat OVNI 39, and you are wrong on a few items about corrosion/Galvanic series and durability. Comparing an aluminum anode to the alu used in hull construction is an apples to oranges comparison. Check out our aluminum boat sailing channel (where we actually sail vs talk about it) ruclips.net/video/2OdEFgZy2A8/видео.html
Cheers,
Gizmo Crew
Im discovering Aluminum,,, face it, The Caribbean is not a good place to be post Pandemic, upper latitudes are becoming more of a Sane choice.... insulated Aluminum is the way to go i figure....
Stop looking at yourself .. djeezzz
After the surface is clean, apply a thin coat of motor oil and kerosene fluid (it's noncombustible) sparingly over the entire surface. This will protect the metal from future oxidation. Repeat every six months. If aluminum is around salt water, repeat process every 90 days.
😂😂
"motor sailer" even better absolutely. Aluminum prices are plunging suddenly making very large displacement that can maintain stiffness and rigidity plus resist rusting and fouling. Generally not used because of expense of welding but because of US Space Program ("friction welding") this problem at retail level has by and large now been solved to the point where actual sailing ships might suddenly make a return to use for niche operations absolutely absolutely absolutely.
Sod this, i going to stay with carbon.
Why do we English say aluminium and not aluminum ?
I THINK ITS IN THE SPELLING...
Both are correct look it up.
It's just kept simpler for Yanks as they're not as cultured🏴🤣🤣👍
Fool