There is a better way to tune guitars and you've probably been getting it wrong all this time, I was! Discover compensated tunings and be more in tune than you've ever been before! Get your Cherub Flow Tune Clip: Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5V3MNHH Website: www.cherubtechnology.com/wst_905li This video contains paid promotion from Guitar World and Cherub More details on how CSGuitars implements product promotion - www.csguitars.co.uk/disclosure #guitarworld #cherub #tuning Time Codes - 00:00 - Introduction & Sponsor 01:08 - Cherub Flow Tune Clip Details 02:25 - Why Compensated Tuning Rocks! 08:28 - Use With Bass Guitars 08:57 - Conclusion and Links More from CSGuitars: Gain access to exclusive content at: www.patreon.com/csguitars Join CSGuitars Discord - discord.gg/csguitars Buy CSGuitars Merchandise - www.csguitars.co.uk/store Website - www.csguitars.co.uk Contact - colin@csguitars.co.uk ____________________________________________________________________ *Description contains affiliate links. Purchasing using one of these links will generate a small commission for CSGuitars at no additional cost to you.*
So is this why i never trust guitar tuners. Used one once and it sounded off, so never used them again. I just keep fine-tuning until it all sounds perfect to my ears.
Any chance you can post a follow up video with a demo of side by side playing comparisons with regular tuning vs. compensated tuning for chords, fretted notes, etc.? It would help us hear the differences between the them!
@@DaisyHollowBooks Do a simple google search for compensated tuning vs standard tuning. There are several great vids out there by some well known artists. 2 great vids are James Taylor (as already mentioned in this video) and an outstanding comparison by Paul Davids.
@@NWTMasterWolf I always thought intonation being out would be about the same if it's 12th fret harmonic or open string, as it's a proper octave node, as opposed to fretting on the 12th fret which really depends on intonation
The 12th harmonic on a bass (or guitar for that matter) has much less energy than a plucked open string and so will be some what flatter than the open played even medium hard. Also, a vibrating string's ends do not add the same amount of mass to the vibrating string as the centre, adding other errors as well. As they say in Texas, "its a whole thing". I was very happy my new tuner handles a bass B string as my old one did not, even though the bass is fret-less. I was never happy with the tuning on my low string when I had to use a harmonic.
My first tuner was a floppy 7" single that came with book one of 'the complete rock and pop guitarist' it's only advantage was that it would then perfectly match the pitch of the vinyl records I was playing on my worn out gramophone....
@Peanus Birthday For people with the serious misfortune of being born in the dim and distant past of the late 20th Century, that wild lawless and savage time that humanity barely survived by the skin of its teeth i.e. BEFORE THE YEAR 1990!!! There were NO clip-on tuners, no FX pedal tuners, no amplifiers with built in tuners and no little plastic boxes that you could plug your guitar into or use its in-built microphone for tuning your guitar AT ALL! Pitch Pipes were often the only method of tuning your guitar. So, nothing to do with being 'poor' just a lack of available technology YET TO BE INVENTED....
@@Ronno4691 LOL! about 10 years ago, a lady came into the shop I was working in, (we hadn't been open all that long...) & asked for a set of pitch pipes! I laughed and asked 'What FOR?' 'To tune my guitar!', she retorted! I told her NO1 used pipes any more for over 20 years and we had a plethora of electronic pedal and clip on tuners that were far easier & more accurate than pipes EVER were! 'OH!' she said! She was so OUT of touch she thought guitar tuning was still stuck in the 1970s & 80s! LOL! Naturally I sold her a Snark!
I had books 1 and 2, with the same floppy record for tuning. Luckily for me, I also had an analogue tuner with a 6 position switch, so you'd set it to whichever string you wanted to tune, then try and get the needle to wobble around somewhere near the centre! 😂
Ok - turns out I’ve been compensating for years by accident, just retuning by ear after putting on a capo or similar. Never occurred to me to tune slightly flat out of box! Great stuff from CSG as always.
One thing I learned is to file my nut slot. If the open string is in tune and the first fret note is high, carefully file the nut slot a bit deeper until both notes are in tune, according to the tuner. This not only affects all of the fretted notes intonation but makes the guitar feel so much better when you play! Many times I've had to use baking soda and super glue because I filed the slot too deep and the first fretted note always buzzes if you do that. In learning to do this, I have ruined a number of nuts. I suggest you use your $99 Fender Squier to practice on before ruining the nut on your $1,200 American Strat.
Hey, Colin, Wayne Reed here. I do watch a lot of music related videos. Mainly to see how others teach, or explain things. What examples they use. I'm retired, and enjoy watching Pros! and chuckle (then don't watch again) non-Pros who shouldn't be teaching anyone! Ha! I'm 74. Started TEACHING in 1975. Been gigging since '65. Been playing since 1960. I've played all over the USA and Canada, and in China for a couple months a while back. Although I've played a lot of instruments in my day, my focus is guitar, bass and harmonica. I say this NOT to pat myself on the back. But rather to try to add a bit of credibility to my next comments. Colin, my man, I've enjoyed every one of your wonderfull videos that I've watched! Not only are your videos produced well, with outstanding content . . . as wel as ACCURATE content . . . your presentation is equally outtanding. Well done! BTW: I've been teaching compensated tuning for a LONG time! It goes right along with properly setting up your guitar. 2 important facts many forget, or never learned . . . 1). You can't intonate with the guitar laying down with the headstock/neck on a block! You have to hold it in playing psition. The position YOU play in! And 2). You compensate the intonation set up NOT so it's perfect at some static fret's harmomic, but to YOU! To YOUR hands, your finger's playing pressure. Your pick attack. You TUNE, you SET UP, and you INTONATE to YOU! THEN . . . you'll be in tune with the world. Assuming the rest of the world is in tune! HA!!! My best, Wayne
That's a terrific note. As a long-time player and producer, I always check intonation and tuning with "live" playing, and have adjusted to how I play, even when that is slightly off "perfect". I think in addition to one's playing techniques, we have to remember most of our instruments are are primarily constructed from natural materials, which also change and respond. It's a dynamic system, unique in its details in every case.
This is a very interesting concept, but it does raise a few questions: - How do you intonate a guitar if you want to use compensated tuning? - Wouldn't open strings be slightly out of tune with the rest of the (fretted) strings? Or is it too little to be noticeable? - If you're playing in a band context, you would have to tune all the instruments the same way, but... would you have to tune the bass the same amount of cents off for it to match the guitars, or does that have its own separate "compensated tuning"? - Again in a band context: What if there's a keyboard in the mix? Would it sound out of tune with the open strings of a guitar tuned in compensated tuning? - Is this the same principle that applies to compensated nuts, like Earvana? Thanks a lot for this video!
When it comes to the keyboard, I would recommend tuning to the keyboard especially if there's no way to adjust it. One time my band was recording in the studio and we recorded an acoustic guitar Parr first and then the keyboard. It was a disaster together. We were using a capo and the guitar was "in tune" but it wasn't tuned to the same frequency as the piano so we had to re record the whole acoustic part which was the whole song to match the piano which was only the final chorus
You intonate guitar like you would a normal one. You can either do it regularly and then compensate the tuning or intonate it with the compensated tuning and make sure both readings are the same cents apart. That depends on the tuning you use. I’d say that depends on whether you often play the same note for a long amount of time. If so, yeah, it’s better if they’re both tuned the same way. Same answer as before. I’d say yes but I’m not sure, I did a little research but I never heard about them.
Nice to see this getting more attention. A couple of years ago, I was commissioned to record some guitar for a guy. One of the issues I encountered was that the track I was sent had drums and bass. Whoever had recorded the bass hadn't considered this and had tuned his bass to "perfect" tuning. This led to many of his notes going very sharp and together with everything else sounded like shit. I did tell the guy about it tho (he usually got his bass recorded by me, but for this one time my bass was off for repairs and maintenance, so he went to someone else to record bass). I gave the customer basically the same explanation you did here, but I didn't really know this was a thing people actually thought about.
I produced film scores for a big chunk of my life, and this comment just gave me Vietnam-style flashbacks. Working with musicians that someone else hired to play/sing a part is such a nightmare. Out of tune instruments, sloppy timing, embarrassing vocals, sending recorded parts in weird, bad file formats, etcetera; there's many reasons I started hiring everybody myself. Dealing with that crap in *exhausting.*
Great advice! I've had issues with my b string on my SG for a bit, I'd be tuning and retuning each session and never able to get a clean sound on an open D chord. thanks for the tip this should help a lot.
I'm so happy there are still things for me to learn out there. I know about open tunings, drop tunings, Tennessee tuning, justified tuning, microtonal mechanisms. But sweetened tunings are very happily sitting on that list now.
I didn't know this had a name, "compensated tuning", but that's basically what we do naturally by picking hard when tuning as you explained. I guess any guitarist or bassist with half a working ear figures that out quickly the first time playing with a band, or along to a record, as a perfectly tuned guitar sounds completely off :)
Not sure if you've already done a video on this, but I would LOVE to see you break down the science of True Temperament fretboards (maybe even do some mythbusting) -- how it would interact with a standard nut vs a compensated one, what some cons might be, etc. \m/
For 16 years I thought I was just crazy to find "perfect tune" and intonate after playing a few chords, and that the B string was just a nasty bugger that liked taunting me. Until I watched this - thank you for clarifying that I'm not insane.
This is really great. I’ve been playing for 50 years, but only in the last few years have I understood compensated tuning. I used to believe that all guitars were essentially perfect, but now I know that there’s no such thing as perfection in tuning.
Huh, so I've been compensating for years, apparently. I always tuned a little more by ear after finishing with the tuner, to catch that sweet spot. Neat concept!
I think the thing I appreciate the most about your videos is I have a fun time "playing" name that tune. 😊 It seems you play all the songs I like to listen to. A very close second favorite is your witty sense of humor. Christmas is only a few months away. I might put this tuner on the back burner as a good option. 👍
Being an old guy that started playing at a young age I spent at least half of my years using a pitch pipe and then fixing the sound from there. I still do that today even though I use a digital tuner. After I use the tuner I play some licks and strum some chords adjusting each string until everything sounds good to my ear. And I have noticed if I then go back and check with the tuner I always end up slightly flat, even though I still sound in tune with the other people I'm playing with. I never thought much about any of it, that's just how it worked out.
Thanks for this, I've been playing music over 40 years, starting in school band playing brass instruments, but , I've never heard of tuning flat before. I appreciate the tip as when I play guitar my chords do always seem a bit off. Cheers my fellow musician.
for metal guitars I'd recommend tuning to the attack of the string, not the sustained note, so your guitar is more in pitch when actually played (especially with fast notes) Edit: didn't watch to the end, this was already adressed in the video. mb
I’ve always done a different sort of by-ear tuning. Where I set the D string correctly, then tune each string to the one next to it. All except the B, where I fret 3 (D) and tune the octave to the D string. It’s been a very trusty and reliable way of tuning! But now I must try your way! Lol
I recently went up one gauge of strings on my guitars (from 9 to 10 on electric, and 10 to 11 on acoustic; I prefer light strings) because I found that no matter how lightly I tried to fret, I was always pulling things slightly out of tune, especially because I tune to A flat. I've been tuning the B string a little flat forever- really works on open D and A chords. Something I was thinking about a couple of weeks ago regarding the open B string is that it's not really used that much in first-position chords anyway; if you think about it, it's only open E/E minor and one G voicing until you get into suspended chords like an A sus2 etc, so it doesn't really matter if it's a bit flat because it's almost always fretted. Of course I'm just talking about strumming open chords
I have done a similar thing with all my locking nut trem equipped axes. I tune just slight FLAT with the locking nuts NOT tightened and the fine tuners all set to 50% of the travel position. Then, once I lock down the nut plates, each string invariably goes slight sharp, meaning almost to perfect tune. Then fine tune as needed. I'm no genius but have been doing this for decades as it just seemed to make sense to me from day 1. Great, useful vid as always Colin!
A cool trick is to use is tuning with 5th and 7th fret harmonics. The 5th fret harmonic of one string will be the same pitch as the 7th fret harmonic of the adjacent higher string. It’s especially useful for bass because it makes the pitch much easier to hear and tube
I’ve been doing this intuitively on my guitars in low tunings like drop A, drop G and drop F, always tuning the low string a bit lower so that it sounds in tune when playing power chords
Guys and Colin.. The Cherub is great I'm sure, but here's an alternative I've been using for years.. Get yourself an A = 440 hertz tuning fork. Use your Ears and tune the 1st string 5th fret "A" to pitch use the tuning fork. Then tune the B 2nd string 5th fret E to the 1st string open E. UNISON. Then the 3rd G string 9th fret E to the 1st string open E, UNISON. then D 4th string 2nd fret E, to the open 1st string OCTAVE. then the A 5th string 7th fret E to the 1st string open E. OCTAVE Then finally tune the open E 6th string to the 2nd fret 4th string E... AND ALSO STRIKE THE 1ST STRING OPEN the 3 string should sound even rather than off.. You'll hear it.. What this method does is to tune the instrument to ITSELF.. The end result is not too far off the compensated tuning!!! However I think it sounds a bit better. Because the guitar string pitches are working together. As Colin rightly says tune using the pressure you would normally hit the strings with and not as the note fades out.. Also ensure the guitar is set up and your strings are in good nick. If you can use your ears it's useful as you don't have to rely on a tuner. If you're in a studio or on stage you still have the option of an electronic tuner.. Give it a try, works for me....
I've never seen anyone say this before (but I'm sure others recommend it elsewhere). I've been doing this for years, thinking it was my intonation creating the need. It makes me happy to know I 'discovered' something that others do too and it's not necessarily my gear.
I usually set the tuning with an electronic tuner and then fix the slight weird untuned vibrations between strings by ear, within the range the tuner gave me. If I go too far, I go back to the tuner and then compensate by ear again. I have watched videos before about this topic and knowing the amount of cents prior to tuning so I'm gonna try it.
love your videos Colin! just wondering, are you aware of a similar compensated tuning chart for bass ? i would imagine it's not something most bassists have considered since we generally play less chords, but for those of us that like to get chordy, pitch drift is definitely an issue in a lot of situations on a standard scale bass (worse on short scale) so i wonder if the same negative cent values could be applied to a standard tuned bass (or maybe you'd need to double the values or something?) obviously there's no substitute for good technique, and especially fingerstyle bassists can adjust left and right hand technique to compensate for these pitch anomalies, but i wonder if the compensated tuning system would help make that easier, or if it would just not really be beneficial on a bass.
I had a whole complex approach to tuning different strings different degrees of flat, so the guitar would be in tune with itself. Then I got a Peterson Intellitouch strobe tuner with compensation, and it’s close enough to what I want that I don’t need to fuss anymore. (And that original James Taylor video on tuning is AWESOME and explained to me what I’d been trying to do for years.)
Without a tuner, I follow a luthier technique, tuning the entire guitar to the G string. Get the G (the usual misbehaving string) right. Fret it at 2 and then get the open A string in tune with that octave A on the G string. Then fret the A string at the second fret and dial in the B string to that. Fret the B at the third and dial in the D string, then fret the D at the second and dial in the E strings. Tuning to octaves like that WORKS. The whole guitar comes out beautifully in tune.
"Has cents displayed on screen, making it definitively accurate to one cent." (9:10) No, that makes it precise to one cent. It means nothing in regards to accuracy. Otherwise, this is a great video with a ton of useful observation. I'd be interested to know if it's actually a strobe tuner or if that's just a display mode, though.
BTW, if you do Pedalboard tuners....... the Pedaltrain tuner is like a small rod that fits under a Boss jack, the input, output and power are all on a hydra cable to fit under the board. Saves a TON of space..
Great video, just one question: If you do the intonation, as in fretted 12th fret vs 12th fret harmonics, do you pick it on the fretted 12th string as well with your regular picking velocity?
I use the tuner first, then adjust by ear as needed. And yeah the attack & decay change how your tuner looks so I take that into account. I have never had a problem with my bass & a Snark, but I play a 4 string & rarely down tune. After tuning on guitar I play a chord pattern to make sure it sounds good, and then some power chords & a blues riff. For bass I have a couple of riffs I play. Those let me hear if my tuning is off or not, and it helps warm up my fingers.
Hmm...my Snark doesn't like the low E (or lower) on my bass. I usually use the octave harmonic, though, which seems to make the Snark happy. I have an older Super Tight, so maybe new models are better?
Never thought this was a thing of theory, although I know about tuning pianos. I always found my guitar sound "boring" and not nicely in tune when using an electronic tuner while playing, (same as a piano that is tuned too "perfect"). So I tuned the lowest E (or asked someone of the band to play it) and tuned the rest by hearing, ending with comparing the two E strings and a chord on the 12th fret for certainty. But when going back to the electronic tuner, things were not perfect pitch. So I presume I developed this method by experience. Btw: A few cents difference between strings also makes the guitar sing a bit more. I prefer using a pitch shifter instead of a chorus for that same reason. Sounds just a bit more natural imho also because of the minor latency of the altered signal. I sometimes put more latency to get a bit of a 12-string sound or duo guitar sound. But yes. Perfect pitch is not the way, certainly when hitting hard.
I’ve been using sweetened tunings almost exclusively since I learned about them over a decade ago, after I started using Peterson headstock and pedal tuners
My first tuner was using my ear to try and get a string tuned to the song I was hearing on the radio or tape player… then relative tuning from there. Then a pitch pipe, then I found a tuning fork at a swap meet.
Maybe a stupid question, but is the cent compensation related to the actual pitch (frequency) of the string or the position and gauge of the string relative to the other strings? e.g would the "b" string on a baritone (F#) also be tuned -6 cents because it's the second highest pitched string? Or would it require some other compensation because F# is a different frequency than B?
Ok, I’ll go get one,…and it’s out of stock as of 10-9-2022. 🙄 Update: I had to break away from the usual sources and found a shop in Spokane WA that had it in stock. Big thanks to Marks Guitar Shop for sending it my way!
Oh good, a rechargable tuner! Now instead of changing a battery every year or two, I can just throw the whole thing away after a few years when the non-changeable li-ion battery dies! Awesome!
Funny thing I've always done this when tuning. First tune exactly with the tuner (to roughly "get there"), and then play a handful of chords to pick up which strings need adjusting for "well-tempered" tuning.
Sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious. How do we bring strings up to pitch? By increasing tension, of course. How do most vibrato systems allow us to drop the pitch? By decreasing tension, of course. So how is it that we can behave as if fretting a string, and pressing *down* on it, does NOT alter the tension applied to that string? And how is it that the change in tension we apply by how we fret and how we strum does NOT vary with the string gauge? (insert embarrassed face-palm here) The question this elicits, however, is whether this suggested approach to tuning also holds for multi-scale/fan-fretted instruments, where the strings are intended to have different tension than a standard fretboard?
I mostly find myself adjusting the tuning of the B string up and down depending on what I'm playing. If you tune the G and B perfectly to a tuner, you'll get a good 4th but an atrocious major 3rd due to the guitar having straight frets; so if you're playing something with a lot of double stops on that pair of strings you can flatten the B until the major third stops beating. I've heard that both EVH and Hendrix did similar stuff, although I'm not sure how true that is.
Great Video Thank! ??? Question? If I’m playing slide guitar, which you made me think about when you said Barre Chords, does this compromised tuning apply to it as well? 😎🎸🎶☮️
One reason I had to shift sometimes from 440 to 442 was when I played with bandoneons, because they are tuned this way. Fun, when an entire orchestra has to shift
If you're going to be playing the guitar with compensated tuning and nothing else, definitely intonate with the compensation. If you're going back and forth between that and standard, I guess you'd either have to pick one, or find a middle ground between the two.
One thing you didn't mention (unless I missed it) is to tune up not tune down to remove slack from the string and maintain stable tuning. Fender however recommends the opposite for locking tuners - tune down, don't tune up. Any idea why that would be preferred?
Fender recommendations should always be ignored. Every piece of hardware on a fender can and should be upgraded. No one can even agree how to align the springs or float/deck/block the term. Leo fender was barely a guitarist and IMO his designs are timeless esthetically but the sound and playability was all luck.
I've been thinking about this on and off for years. Eventually settled on not compensating at all because while maybe my heavy strikes make notes go sharp, that would make all my other notes be flat at the same time. And for what I play nothing is consistent with dynamics enough to worry about 10 cents. Though maybe recording is a different story. Change tunings for each section.
I believe Eddie tuned it slightly flat so he can play all the 3 string bar chords, because the major 3rd always sounds bad unless its flat with high distortion. The problem is basically eliminated when playing clean.
I have a gorgeous 12 string acoustic. I always tune it with the capo on 3rd fret because I tune it 3 steps down to C#. It stays in tune when I move the capo up or down but if I remove the capo the bass strings are way out so I have to retune it with a chromatic tuner. Sometimes the tuner gives a perfect result on the screen but the guitar is slightly out of pitch so I finish tuning it by ear.
I'm a bass player, and the only clip on tuners I've found which will consistently register the low B are the TC Electronics, Silver Snark 2, and the D'addario that comes with the maintenance kit. most other clip ons, including earlier snarks, won't register the B unless it's fretted at the 5th fret and tuned to E. I'd be interested to see if these cherub are able to perform as advertised on the low strings
Retuning B makes sense because equal temperament tuning means B is naturally a bit sharp from what our ear expects, so defining can help even if you aren’t overly sharp.
The fact that perfect pitches don't harmonize perfectly is one of the most baffling quandaries in music. We were probably better off before we knew how to express pitches in mathematical terms, because knowing that the sound can be wrong even when the math is right just drives us batty.
I normally sing the low E then just 5 fret harmonic except for B which is 4th. But I also now can just feel the vibrations enough to know what I need to do. Trying to get to the point where I can tune my guitars based on the feel of the tension
There is a better way to tune guitars and you've probably been getting it wrong all this time, I was! Discover compensated tunings and be more in tune than you've ever been before!
Get your Cherub Flow Tune Clip:
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5V3MNHH
Website: www.cherubtechnology.com/wst_905li
This video contains paid promotion from Guitar World and Cherub
More details on how CSGuitars implements product promotion - www.csguitars.co.uk/disclosure
#guitarworld #cherub #tuning
Time Codes -
00:00 - Introduction & Sponsor
01:08 - Cherub Flow Tune Clip Details
02:25 - Why Compensated Tuning Rocks!
08:28 - Use With Bass Guitars
08:57 - Conclusion and Links
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*Description contains affiliate links. Purchasing using one of these links will generate a small commission for CSGuitars at no additional cost to you.*
So is this why i never trust guitar tuners. Used one once and it sounded off, so never used them again. I just keep fine-tuning until it all sounds perfect to my ears.
whats a pitch pape?😀
Any chance you can post a follow up video with a demo of side by side playing comparisons with regular tuning vs. compensated tuning for chords, fretted notes, etc.? It would help us hear the differences between the them!
I wouldn't mind seeing that as well.
@@DaisyHollowBooks Do a simple google search for compensated tuning vs standard tuning. There are several great vids out there by some well known artists. 2 great vids are James Taylor (as already mentioned in this video) and an outstanding comparison by Paul Davids.
@wayneknazek7362 Cool. Thanks.
It wont happen, he made it clear this is a sponsored video.
Paul Davids did exactly that using standard and James Taylor tuning.
If you're having trouble tuning a bass, try playing the twelfth fret harmonic instead of the open string.
That will only work if it's intonation is correct.
@@NWTMasterWolf I always thought intonation being out would be about the same if it's 12th fret harmonic or open string, as it's a proper octave node, as opposed to fretting on the 12th fret which really depends on intonation
@@NWTMasterWolf Intonation has nothing to do with harmonics. Intonation would play a factor if you were instead fretting the 12th fret to tune
The 12th harmonic on a bass (or guitar for that matter) has much less energy than a plucked open string and so will be some what flatter than the open played even medium hard. Also, a vibrating string's ends do not add the same amount of mass to the vibrating string as the centre, adding other errors as well. As they say in Texas, "its a whole thing". I was very happy my new tuner handles a bass B string as my old one did not, even though the bass is fret-less. I was never happy with the tuning on my low string when I had to use a harmonic.
@@NWTMasterWolf no
My first tuner was a floppy 7" single that came with book one of 'the complete rock and pop guitarist' it's only advantage was that it would then perfectly match the pitch of the vinyl records I was playing on my worn out gramophone....
Wow, that's brilliant. I hadn't considered how that would necessarily keep you in tune with your out-of-tune record player.
That's so awesome.
@Peanus Birthday For people with the serious misfortune of being born in the dim and distant past of the late 20th Century, that wild lawless and savage time that humanity barely survived by the skin of its teeth i.e. BEFORE THE YEAR 1990!!! There were NO clip-on tuners, no FX pedal tuners, no amplifiers with built in tuners and no little plastic boxes that you could plug your guitar into or use its in-built microphone for tuning your guitar AT ALL! Pitch Pipes were often the only method of tuning your guitar. So, nothing to do with being 'poor' just a lack of available technology YET TO BE INVENTED....
@@Ronno4691 LOL! about 10 years ago, a lady came into the shop I was working in, (we hadn't been open all that long...) & asked for a set of pitch pipes! I laughed and asked 'What FOR?'
'To tune my guitar!', she retorted!
I told her NO1 used pipes any more for over 20 years and we had a plethora of electronic pedal and clip on tuners that were far easier & more accurate than pipes EVER were!
'OH!' she said! She was so OUT of touch she thought guitar tuning was still stuck in the 1970s & 80s! LOL!
Naturally I sold her a Snark!
I had books 1 and 2, with the same floppy record for tuning. Luckily for me, I also had an analogue tuner with a 6 position switch, so you'd set it to whichever string you wanted to tune, then try and get the needle to wobble around somewhere near the centre! 😂
Ok - turns out I’ve been compensating for years by accident, just retuning by ear after putting on a capo or similar. Never occurred to me to tune slightly flat out of box! Great stuff from CSG as always.
One thing I learned is to file my nut slot. If the open string is in tune and the first fret note is high, carefully file the nut slot a bit deeper until both notes are in tune, according to the tuner. This not only affects all of the fretted notes intonation but makes the guitar feel so much better when you play!
Many times I've had to use baking soda and super glue because I filed the slot too deep and the first fretted note always buzzes if you do that. In learning to do this, I have ruined a number of nuts. I suggest you use your $99 Fender Squier to practice on before ruining the nut on your $1,200 American Strat.
Your comment should be pinned.
spend the money and get the right sized nut files
your comment should be PRINTED
Hey, Colin, Wayne Reed here. I do watch a lot of music related videos. Mainly to see how others teach, or explain things. What examples they use. I'm retired, and enjoy watching Pros! and chuckle (then don't watch again) non-Pros who shouldn't be teaching anyone! Ha! I'm 74. Started TEACHING in 1975. Been gigging since '65. Been playing since 1960. I've played all over the USA and Canada, and in China for a couple months a while back. Although I've played a lot of instruments in my day, my focus is guitar, bass and harmonica. I say this NOT to pat myself on the back. But rather to try to add a bit of credibility to my next comments. Colin, my man, I've enjoyed every one of your wonderfull videos that I've watched! Not only are your videos produced well, with outstanding content . . . as wel as ACCURATE content . . . your presentation is equally outtanding. Well done! BTW: I've been teaching compensated tuning for a LONG time! It goes right along with properly setting up your guitar. 2 important facts many forget, or never learned . . . 1). You can't intonate with the guitar laying down with the headstock/neck on a block! You have to hold it in playing psition. The position YOU play in! And 2). You compensate the intonation set up NOT so it's perfect at some static fret's harmomic, but to YOU! To YOUR hands, your finger's playing pressure. Your pick attack. You TUNE, you SET UP, and you INTONATE to YOU!
THEN . . . you'll be in tune with the world. Assuming the rest of the world is in tune! HA!!! My best, Wayne
That's a terrific note. As a long-time player and producer, I always check intonation and tuning with "live" playing, and have adjusted to how I play, even when that is slightly off "perfect". I think in addition to one's playing techniques, we have to remember most of our instruments are are primarily constructed from natural materials, which also change and respond. It's a dynamic system, unique in its details in every case.
This is a very interesting concept, but it does raise a few questions:
- How do you intonate a guitar if you want to use compensated tuning?
- Wouldn't open strings be slightly out of tune with the rest of the (fretted) strings? Or is it too little to be noticeable?
- If you're playing in a band context, you would have to tune all the instruments the same way, but... would you have to tune the bass the same amount of cents off for it to match the guitars, or does that have its own separate "compensated tuning"?
- Again in a band context: What if there's a keyboard in the mix? Would it sound out of tune with the open strings of a guitar tuned in compensated tuning?
- Is this the same principle that applies to compensated nuts, like Earvana?
Thanks a lot for this video!
When it comes to the keyboard, I would recommend tuning to the keyboard especially if there's no way to adjust it. One time my band was recording in the studio and we recorded an acoustic guitar Parr first and then the keyboard. It was a disaster together. We were using a capo and the guitar was "in tune" but it wasn't tuned to the same frequency as the piano so we had to re record the whole acoustic part which was the whole song to match the piano which was only the final chorus
You intonate guitar like you would a normal one. You can either do it regularly and then compensate the tuning or intonate it with the compensated tuning and make sure both readings are the same cents apart.
That depends on the tuning you use.
I’d say that depends on whether you often play the same note for a long amount of time. If so, yeah, it’s better if they’re both tuned the same way.
Same answer as before.
I’d say yes but I’m not sure, I did a little research but I never heard about them.
@@blackfowl75 Thanks!
Nice to see this getting more attention. A couple of years ago, I was commissioned to record some guitar for a guy. One of the issues I encountered was that the track I was sent had drums and bass. Whoever had recorded the bass hadn't considered this and had tuned his bass to "perfect" tuning. This led to many of his notes going very sharp and together with everything else sounded like shit. I did tell the guy about it tho (he usually got his bass recorded by me, but for this one time my bass was off for repairs and maintenance, so he went to someone else to record bass). I gave the customer basically the same explanation you did here, but I didn't really know this was a thing people actually thought about.
I produced film scores for a big chunk of my life, and this comment just gave me Vietnam-style flashbacks. Working with musicians that someone else hired to play/sing a part is such a nightmare. Out of tune instruments, sloppy timing, embarrassing vocals, sending recorded parts in weird, bad file formats, etcetera; there's many reasons I started hiring everybody myself. Dealing with that crap in *exhausting.*
dang i saw this video title and thought "i doubt it" but this is actually really smart. i should have gotten into compensated tuning years ago
Great advice! I've had issues with my b string on my SG for a bit, I'd be tuning and retuning each session and never able to get a clean sound on an open D chord. thanks for the tip this should help a lot.
I'm so happy there are still things for me to learn out there. I know about open tunings, drop tunings, Tennessee tuning, justified tuning, microtonal mechanisms. But sweetened tunings are very happily sitting on that list now.
Didn't realise this existed for acoustic. I definitely do the metal thing of compensating for hitting the lower strings harder
I didn't know this had a name, "compensated tuning", but that's basically what we do naturally by picking hard when tuning as you explained.
I guess any guitarist or bassist with half a working ear figures that out quickly the first time playing with a band, or along to a record, as a perfectly tuned guitar sounds completely off :)
Not sure if you've already done a video on this, but I would LOVE to see you break down the science of True Temperament fretboards (maybe even do some mythbusting) -- how it would interact with a standard nut vs a compensated one, what some cons might be, etc.
\m/
For 16 years I thought I was just crazy to find "perfect tune" and intonate after playing a few chords, and that the B string was just a nasty bugger that liked taunting me. Until I watched this - thank you for clarifying that I'm not insane.
Thanks for the graphic that shows all the string tunings. I totally ripped that off with a screen-shot and will see how that sounds with my guitars.
This explains a lot. Thanks, I found this video incredibly illuminating and useful
This is really great. I’ve been playing for 50 years, but only in the last few years have I understood compensated tuning. I used to believe that all guitars were essentially perfect, but now I know that there’s no such thing as perfection in tuning.
Huh, so I've been compensating for years, apparently.
I always tuned a little more by ear after finishing with the tuner, to catch that sweet spot. Neat concept!
I think the thing I appreciate the most about your videos is I have a fun time "playing" name that tune. 😊 It seems you play all the songs I like to listen to. A very close second favorite is your witty sense of humor.
Christmas is only a few months away. I might put this tuner on the back burner as a good option. 👍
Thanks for this video! Man you really have good content.
Being an old guy that started playing at a young age I spent at least half of my years using a pitch pipe and then fixing the sound from there. I still do that today even though I use a digital tuner. After I use the tuner I play some licks and strum some chords adjusting each string until everything sounds good to my ear. And I have noticed if I then go back and check with the tuner I always end up slightly flat, even though I still sound in tune with the other people I'm playing with. I never thought much about any of it, that's just how it worked out.
Thanks for this, I've been playing music over 40 years, starting in school band playing brass instruments, but , I've never heard of tuning flat before. I appreciate the tip as when I play guitar my chords do always seem a bit off. Cheers my fellow musician.
This starts to make sense now. Thanks a lot.
for metal guitars I'd recommend tuning to the attack of the string, not the sustained note, so your guitar is more in pitch when actually played (especially with fast notes)
Edit: didn't watch to the end, this was already adressed in the video. mb
Didn't know about tuning the attack instead of the sustain and decay. Thanks for that nugget of knowledge.
I’ve always done a different sort of by-ear tuning. Where I set the D string correctly, then tune each string to the one next to it. All except the B, where I fret 3 (D) and tune the octave to the D string. It’s been a very trusty and reliable way of tuning! But now I must try your way! Lol
1st time I have heard of this, thanks Colin, BTW, your getting good at channeling Papa Het!
I recently went up one gauge of strings on my guitars (from 9 to 10 on electric, and 10 to 11 on acoustic; I prefer light strings) because I found that no matter how lightly I tried to fret, I was always pulling things slightly out of tune, especially because I tune to A flat. I've been tuning the B string a little flat forever- really works on open D and A chords. Something I was thinking about a couple of weeks ago regarding the open B string is that it's not really used that much in first-position chords anyway; if you think about it, it's only open E/E minor and one G voicing until you get into suspended chords like an A sus2 etc, so it doesn't really matter if it's a bit flat because it's almost always fretted. Of course I'm just talking about strumming open chords
I have done a similar thing with all my locking nut trem equipped axes. I tune just slight FLAT with the locking nuts NOT tightened and the fine tuners all set to 50% of the travel position. Then, once I lock down the nut plates, each string invariably goes slight sharp, meaning almost to perfect tune. Then fine tune as needed. I'm no genius but have been doing this for decades as it just seemed to make sense to me from day 1.
Great, useful vid as always Colin!
Knocked it out of the park as always Colin!
All I hear is a great reason for me to tune even lower
That clip-on tuner having a strobe setting looks really good - I also find strobe easier to use than a needle display.
Good luck finding one! I went trying to buy one and no one has them?
Treated myself to a Peterson strobe clip-on instead - already had its big brother on my board so it's very familiar.
Thank you for this video and the link to the tuner.
EVH's tech said Ed's hands were so strong that he had to tune the guitar extra flat to compensate for the extra tension.
That's just bad technique.
That's just bad technique.
@@nuberiffic possibly, old habits die hard I guess.
Literally just bad technique, if you press too hard it pitches up. I would have loved to hear him play something scalloped
When you sell 100 million albums, you must be doing SOMETHING right. Ed would tune....then everyone else tuned to HIM.
great vid im definitely gonna try out that tuner
Great post as always. Very informative. Hope they paid you well for superb performance lol
I just pluck hard when I'm tuning, like you said, and this seems to compensate enough to make my intonation pretty damn good.
Fascinating - that pesky B - great information, cheers 😎
A cool trick is to use is tuning with 5th and 7th fret harmonics.
The 5th fret harmonic of one string will be the same pitch as the 7th fret harmonic of the adjacent higher string.
It’s especially useful for bass because it makes the pitch much easier to hear and tube
I’ve been doing this intuitively on my guitars in low tunings like drop A, drop G and drop F, always tuning the low string a bit lower so that it sounds in tune when playing power chords
Well that makes sense as, the slacker the string, the MORE you are going to stretch it OUT of tune when you fret a note on it!
My Peterson StrobeHD tuner has sweetened/compensated tuning settings and those are what I use to tune to.
Guys and Colin.. The Cherub is great I'm sure, but here's an alternative I've been using for years..
Get yourself an A = 440 hertz tuning fork. Use your Ears and tune the 1st string 5th fret "A" to pitch use the tuning fork. Then tune the B 2nd string 5th fret E to the 1st string open E. UNISON.
Then the 3rd G string 9th fret E to the 1st string open E, UNISON.
then D 4th string 2nd fret E, to the open 1st string OCTAVE.
then the A 5th string 7th fret E to the 1st string open E. OCTAVE
Then finally tune the open E 6th string to the 2nd fret 4th string E... AND ALSO STRIKE THE 1ST STRING OPEN the 3 string should sound even rather than off.. You'll hear it..
What this method does is to tune the instrument to ITSELF..
The end result is not too far off the compensated tuning!!! However I think it sounds a bit better. Because the guitar string pitches are working together.
As Colin rightly says tune using the pressure you would normally hit the strings with and not as the note fades out.. Also ensure the guitar is set up and your strings are in good nick.
If you can use your ears it's useful as you don't have to rely on a tuner.
If you're in a studio or on stage you still have the option of an electronic tuner..
Give it a try, works for me....
I bought the cherub tuner, and I think its compensated tuning mode works best for acoustic guitar and maybe not for some electric guitars.
Band name: The Everchanging Whims
Album name: Algorhythm ( I spelled it like that , on a whim, because music. I may change it 😜)
I've never seen anyone say this before (but I'm sure others recommend it elsewhere). I've been doing this for years, thinking it was my intonation creating the need. It makes me happy to know I 'discovered' something that others do too and it's not necessarily my gear.
I usually set the tuning with an electronic tuner and then fix the slight weird untuned vibrations between strings by ear, within the range the tuner gave me. If I go too far, I go back to the tuner and then compensate by ear again. I have watched videos before about this topic and knowing the amount of cents prior to tuning so I'm gonna try it.
love your videos Colin! just wondering, are you aware of a similar compensated tuning chart for bass ? i would imagine it's not something most bassists have considered since we generally play less chords, but for those of us that like to get chordy, pitch drift is definitely an issue in a lot of situations on a standard scale bass (worse on short scale) so i wonder if the same negative cent values could be applied to a standard tuned bass (or maybe you'd need to double the values or something?) obviously there's no substitute for good technique, and especially fingerstyle bassists can adjust left and right hand technique to compensate for these pitch anomalies, but i wonder if the compensated tuning system would help make that easier, or if it would just not really be beneficial on a bass.
I am so glad I saw this. Playing an open D on most of my guitars has always sounded kind of harsh even when my guitar is in tune and now I know why.
Same. It drives me crazy
I had a whole complex approach to tuning different strings different degrees of flat, so the guitar would be in tune with itself. Then I got a Peterson Intellitouch strobe tuner with compensation, and it’s close enough to what I want that I don’t need to fuss anymore. (And that original James Taylor video on tuning is AWESOME and explained to me what I’d been trying to do for years.)
Without a tuner, I follow a luthier technique, tuning the entire guitar to the G string. Get the G (the usual misbehaving string) right. Fret it at 2 and then get the open A string in tune with that octave A on the G string. Then fret the A string at the second fret and dial in the B string to that. Fret the B at the third and dial in the D string, then fret the D at the second and dial in the E strings. Tuning to octaves like that WORKS. The whole guitar comes out beautifully in tune.
Helpful!
This is great. I always had problems with the B string sounding weird with a D chord especially.
"Has cents displayed on screen, making it definitively accurate to one cent." (9:10) No, that makes it precise to one cent. It means nothing in regards to accuracy.
Otherwise, this is a great video with a ton of useful observation.
I'd be interested to know if it's actually a strobe tuner or if that's just a display mode, though.
i tried it on my one of my acoustic guitars and now wonderwall sounds wonderful!
BTW, if you do Pedalboard tuners....... the Pedaltrain tuner is like a small rod that fits under a Boss jack, the input, output and power are all on a hydra cable to fit under the board. Saves a TON of space..
i thought a stupid topic but was surprised. its a good idea.
That B trick is amazing!
Great video, just one question: If you do the intonation, as in fretted 12th fret vs 12th fret harmonics, do you pick it on the fretted 12th string as well with your regular picking velocity?
I use the tuner first, then adjust by ear as needed.
And yeah the attack & decay change how your tuner looks so I take that into account.
I have never had a problem with my bass & a Snark, but I play a 4 string & rarely down tune.
After tuning on guitar I play a chord pattern to make sure it sounds good, and then some power chords & a blues riff.
For bass I have a couple of riffs I play.
Those let me hear if my tuning is off or not, and it helps warm up my fingers.
Hmm...my Snark doesn't like the low E (or lower) on my bass. I usually use the octave harmonic, though, which seems to make the Snark happy. I have an older Super Tight, so maybe new models are better?
@@TheStrykerProject I have had the same experience with an older Snark & a newer one
And both red & blue, if that maters.
@@dw7704 Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the info.
Never thought this was a thing of theory, although I know about tuning pianos. I always found my guitar sound "boring" and not nicely in tune when using an electronic tuner while playing, (same as a piano that is tuned too "perfect"). So I tuned the lowest E (or asked someone of the band to play it) and tuned the rest by hearing, ending with comparing the two E strings and a chord on the 12th fret for certainty. But when going back to the electronic tuner, things were not perfect pitch. So I presume I developed this method by experience. Btw: A few cents difference between strings also makes the guitar sing a bit more. I prefer using a pitch shifter instead of a chorus for that same reason. Sounds just a bit more natural imho also because of the minor latency of the altered signal. I sometimes put more latency to get a bit of a 12-string sound or duo guitar sound. But yes. Perfect pitch is not the way, certainly when hitting hard.
I never knew that, thanks
I’ve been using sweetened tunings almost exclusively since I learned about them over a decade ago, after I started using Peterson headstock and pedal tuners
My first tuner was using my ear to try and get a string tuned to the song I was hearing on the radio or tape player… then relative tuning from there.
Then a pitch pipe, then I found a tuning fork at a swap meet.
Colin, the 440 pitch was established in 1936, in the us not in the 1800's, and internationaly in 1955
What do you think orchestras had been trying to accomplish since the 1800s?
Don't confuse the end of a movement with its beginning.
I prefer a standby switch that shorts a big resistor that reduces the B+ voltage to allow the filter caps to form before full voltage is applied.
Maybe a stupid question, but is the cent compensation related to the actual pitch (frequency) of the string or the position and gauge of the string relative to the other strings? e.g would the "b" string on a baritone (F#) also be tuned -6 cents because it's the second highest pitched string? Or would it require some other compensation because F# is a different frequency than B?
Ok, I’ll go get one,…and it’s out of stock as of 10-9-2022. 🙄
Update: I had to break away from the usual sources and found a shop in Spokane WA that had it in stock. Big thanks to Marks Guitar Shop for sending it my way!
this was made for intonation ! , for compensation a strobetuner can do the job , but for intonation , you need the percentage
Oh good, a rechargable tuner! Now instead of changing a battery every year or two, I can just throw the whole thing away after a few years when the non-changeable li-ion battery dies! Awesome!
Another very interesting video! Quick question, what is that gorgeous acoustic you are playing at 3:18?
Well you managed to sell out Amazons inventory with this video. I'll be on the hunt!
Funny thing I've always done this when tuning. First tune exactly with the tuner (to roughly "get there"), and then play a handful of chords to pick up which strings need adjusting for "well-tempered" tuning.
Sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious. How do we bring strings up to pitch? By increasing tension, of course. How do most vibrato systems allow us to drop the pitch? By decreasing tension, of course. So how is it that we can behave as if fretting a string, and pressing *down* on it, does NOT alter the tension applied to that string? And how is it that the change in tension we apply by how we fret and how we strum does NOT vary with the string gauge? (insert embarrassed face-palm here)
The question this elicits, however, is whether this suggested approach to tuning also holds for multi-scale/fan-fretted instruments, where the strings are intended to have different tension than a standard fretboard?
I mostly find myself adjusting the tuning of the B string up and down depending on what I'm playing. If you tune the G and B perfectly to a tuner, you'll get a good 4th but an atrocious major 3rd due to the guitar having straight frets; so if you're playing something with a lot of double stops on that pair of strings you can flatten the B until the major third stops beating. I've heard that both EVH and Hendrix did similar stuff, although I'm not sure how true that is.
7:30 - "Compensated tuning makes a lot of cents." Now THAT makes sense! 🤓
Great Video Thank!
??? Question?
If I’m playing slide guitar, which you made me think about when you said Barre Chords, does this compromised tuning apply to it as well? 😎🎸🎶☮️
One reason I had to shift sometimes from 440 to 442 was when I played with bandoneons, because they are tuned this way. Fun, when an entire orchestra has to shift
I play in drop A on a 6 string. If I don't tune "6" flat it's terrible. Great video.
4:20 Thanks valuable info as always.
HOWEVER, what about the intonation? Should we intonate with the compensation as well?
If you're going to be playing the guitar with compensated tuning and nothing else, definitely intonate with the compensation.
If you're going back and forth between that and standard, I guess you'd either have to pick one, or find a middle ground between the two.
@@JWBails Why would anyone go back to standard though? I Don't completely understand what you said.
Would you please make a video explaining how a guitar's physical orientation in space affects the tuning?
One thing you didn't mention (unless I missed it) is to tune up not tune down to remove slack from the string and maintain stable tuning. Fender however recommends the opposite for locking tuners - tune down, don't tune up. Any idea why that would be preferred?
Fender recommendations should always be ignored. Every piece of hardware on a fender can and should be upgraded. No one can even agree how to align the springs or float/deck/block the term. Leo fender was barely a guitarist and IMO his designs are timeless esthetically but the sound and playability was all luck.
I dont know or care what the Irn Bru pedal does but I need it on my board
That Les Paul is fucking beautiful mate, both in terms of sound and appearance
This is the most useful ad I've ever seen
I use True Temperament and Evertune bridge. I don't have these problems. Is the future and we are waiting for you there.
I've been thinking about this on and off for years. Eventually settled on not compensating at all because while maybe my heavy strikes make notes go sharp, that would make all my other notes be flat at the same time. And for what I play nothing is consistent with dynamics enough to worry about 10 cents. Though maybe recording is a different story. Change tunings for each section.
I believe Eddie tuned it slightly flat so he can play all the 3 string bar chords, because the major 3rd always sounds bad unless its flat with high distortion. The problem is basically eliminated when playing clean.
My first tuner was a pitch pipe. My first broken string (and many after that) were a direct result of those pitch pipes...
I have a gorgeous 12 string acoustic. I always tune it with the capo on 3rd fret because I tune it 3 steps down to C#.
It stays in tune when I move the capo up or down but if I remove the capo the bass strings are way out so I have to retune it with a chromatic tuner. Sometimes the tuner gives a perfect result on the screen but the guitar is slightly out of pitch so I finish tuning it by ear.
I have this with the LOW C in drop C or C tuning. I always have it a little lower, because well, it just sounds better :)
Just got the last one ordered.
I'm a bass player, and the only clip on tuners I've found which will consistently register the low B are the TC Electronics, Silver Snark 2, and the D'addario that comes with the maintenance kit. most other clip ons, including earlier snarks, won't register the B unless it's fretted at the 5th fret and tuned to E. I'd be interested to see if these cherub are able to perform as advertised on the low strings
Retuning B makes sense because equal temperament tuning means B is naturally a bit sharp from what our ear expects, so defining can help even if you aren’t overly sharp.
@TEXT Me ON TELEGRAM 👉 CSGuitars these boys are getting so bad. Fuck off.
The fact that perfect pitches don't harmonize perfectly is one of the most baffling quandaries in music. We were probably better off before we knew how to express pitches in mathematical terms, because knowing that the sound can be wrong even when the math is right just drives us batty.
I personally prefer an Old Style sweep needle "VU " type tuner , in line , but the rest is Correct . Intonation being spot on is VERY important .
I normally sing the low E then just 5 fret harmonic except for B which is 4th. But I also now can just feel the vibrations enough to know what I need to do. Trying to get to the point where I can tune my guitars based on the feel of the tension
Getting a guitar with an Evertune bridge has changed my life, especially where chugging and cowboy chords are concerned.
My piezo tuner just broke so this video is good timing
I confess I'm slightly skeptical, but I'm going to give this a go. I do hit problems with open chords in particular.