IS PETER THE FIRST POPE? The Chosen Round table Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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I am a Roman Catholic. I love every second of The Chosen and yet that doesn't mean I may not agree with everything put forth. I feel we have to watch this as Dallas and the writers have written the episodes. Do we have to agree 100% with everything put forward? Absolutely not. But we can accept and watch it for all the beauty they have put in every word, every scene, every episode, knowing and understanding that this show was not written for conversion. And rejoice in all the joy these episodes have brought to those who have never been exposed to the story of Jesus before.
EXACTLY!! We don’t have to agree or disagree on every nuance. I take it as entertainment & to add layers to my Bible reading & study!!
I concur! The Chosen has been a real inspiration to soooo many, and yet it is also demonized by many who've probably never even watched it! I'm retired now, Saved at 16 yrs old, and it wasn't until The Chosen that I felt compelled to read through the whole Bible, and now read and study everyday, putting on the whole Armor of God everyday-has really deepened my faith and I'm very thankful for that. I also enjoy watching The 10 Commandments with Charlten Heston as Moses, but I don't expect to take this theatrical presentation and elevate it to the same level as reading my Bible daily, or communing with God in prayer! I'm sure most of the cast of that movie were of the secular persuasion but it was still impactful by bringing Scripture to life.
I agree. There are things I have not agreed with due to scripture but I enjoy the show.
@@ellendeluca4941 I’m a Christian, no denomination. I LOVE The Chosen too!! They do tell you to read your Bible on every livestream. I LOVE that too!! I don’t agree with everything, but I’m not going to complain. It’s the VERY BEST Jesus show EVER!! Never in my life has a show brought the Bible alive like this show does!! They’re not black words on a white page anymore!! I picture Shahar Isaac, I can’t help it, & that’s okay. I’m glad to know that you love it too & aren’t complaining about the stuff that’s different. I do LOVE the round tables that they have about each episode!! I have to say that Dallas is right, it does sound like the beginnings of a joke!! Have a good day, my sister in Christ!!
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Great just take a quote about who mediates the covenant completely out of context - I bet you’re the type to interpret the Last Supper symbolically “Take and eat for this is my body… drink for this is my blood… do this is remembrance of me” Priests act IN PERSONA CHRISTI, they share in Christ’s priesthood.
@@lukewilliams448 If the Eucharist is not symbolic you participate in ritual cannibalism, if it is symbolic (symbolism isn’t a bad thing) you participate a ritualistic representation of Christ’s sacrifice. Pick one.
AMEN! One mediator
correct and that is why the righteous present our pleas to Christ.
Amen
The important part is that we all love Jesus. We can disagree on many things but as long as we get the love of Christ right we can all still love one another. I love you all!
I think Peter is the first stone in the foundation of the Church, he's the leader of the apostles and they all together go out and spread the word of the gospel. I feel like he is just the first stone and they are all part of the foundation ❤❤❤
No, Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone. Peter is a foundation rock, but not the Chief.
Best explanation I've heard so far❤
@karenjenkins66 Thank you for that, that's what I always believed 🙏 😌 ❤️
The Cornerstone!
@@AZLorie-kl5owI thought Jesus Christ was the cornerstone that they rejected.
Each one at this roundtable has explained very well what their specific belief is based on through interpretation of scriptures. Love to learn the Jewish aspect here.
I LOVE Rabbi Sobel!! I especially love the way he brings the Old Testament into it!! I don’t always agree with him, but he’s always informative.
I love my Protestant brothers and sisters and long for Christian unity that Jesus prayed for in John 17. I pray for the day that protesting hearts come back to the family table, back to the Eucharist! Our family division grieves our Father’s heart.
Hate to break it to you, but the Church is not Catholic it is those who believe Jesus is the Messiah. But no we will not turn to a "church" which has been infiltrated with idol worship praying to the dead Ishtar and Baal worship masqueraded as Christianity.
ruclips.net/video/RgN4xm8f_FU/видео.html Learn some history you were made to believe paganism is worship of God
The question to me is not only Peter as pope but many of the other apostles canonized as saints. By Paul's definition all believers who honor God are saints, not only a select group putting themselves over others. Yet if any of us calls someone a saint, it would get a few side looks.
All the Apostles (except Judas) are saints. And everyone who is with God is a saint. Most of the saints are not on the calendar... The Church only singled out a few notorious ones to present them as models to follow.
I agree that Dallas hardly pays attention to the Catholic priest; doesn't ask the priest any questions. The priest just offers explanations on his own.
Dallas turned to the priest first, after giving his explanation. I thought Dallas did a good job of walking a tightrope trying to keep the conversation civil. Give him some Grace, please.
I have been a Christian all my life, but I have only recently been learning scriptures. I just want to say that you are helping me, with your videos, learn so much about the scriptures through breaking down what goes on in The Chosen and what is said on the round tables.Thank You from the bottom of my heart❤️
If Peter was the first pope, why was Paul able to rebuke him? Shouldn’t Paul have submitted to his authority?
we are all human and popes are not infallible. As far as Catholics are concerned, Peter was the first pope, and it was the first church to be set up after Jesus rose to heaven. Jesus mission was to bring his teachings over all the earth, to Jews, and gentiles alike. That was what Paul corrected him on. it was a fundamental teaching.
@@Jennykre It's not so much about Peter's fallibility, but his authority. If Peter and his contemporaries understood Peter to be the highest authority in the church, would not Peter have insisted on others respecting his authority and the others have submitted to that authority? No doubt Peter was ONE OF the leaders in the early church, but nowhere in Acts or the epistles does it suggest that Peter had higher authority than other leaders in the church, such as Paul or James. A holistic reading of Scripture doesn't support the notion that Peter had authority over other leaders of the church, or that he had authority over the entirety of the church. In fact, it suggests the opposite.
Peter realized that Paul was right - Jesus was preaching this before Paul's position in the Early Church (the Catholic Church) was established.
Paul was rebuking Peter because he was always with Jewish Christians and never Gentile Christians. Philosophically, Peter agreed with Paul. He's even the one who proposes the accommodations for Gentiles during the Council of Jerusalem. It was not a question of authority. It was a question of Peter not acting according to what he believed. Peter was the Apostles' leader, but he remained a sinner. Think of it as Nathan rebuking David. David was the King. He had the authority. Yet, Nathan denounced him, and David kept his authority after repenting.
@@Xerxes2005 The David/Nathan example is distinguishable because there was no ambiguity from Scripture as to what their roles were. David was the king, Nathan was a prophet. While Peter was undoubtedly a leader in the early church, at no place in Acts or the epistles does it suggest that he actually had higher authority. It just isn’t there, and passages such as the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 suggest that he was a co-leader with Paul, James, and others.
These round table meetings are so enlightening.
Would suggest all those interested on the subject read " The Early Church was the Catholic Church" by Joe Heschmeyer to add to the discussion.
Question: when Jesus said, On this Rock, I will build My Church. Why do they not think or see Jesus as the Rock?
Back in Exodus 33 when Moses wanted to see the face of God and God said no one could see His face and live, so God hid Moses in the Cleft of the Rock (a type of Christ) as He passed by and Moses saw all His glory!
In the Psalms we read God is our Rock and our Fortress.
Just a thought and question in my humble opinion?
Also Acts 4:11
Does it have to be either/ or? Jesus is the cornerstone of course. But also we see Jesus himself change Simons name to Peter, which means rock. So Jesus basically says “ You are rock and upon this rock I will build my church.”
Jesus came to earth, among other things, to establish the Christian church. There were no denominations then. He wanted His people to be unified: as ONE. The word "catholic" ( with a lower case letter) means universal. So, God's church was to be unified. The Catholic ( with an upper case letter) denomination did not come about until much later.
I was baptized as Evangelical and Reform, Confirmed in the United Church of Christ and converted after much consideration to the Catholic Church. I love you brother, but believe you are still in the beginning stages of your faith journey. Peter is the first Pope. He is buried under the Vatican. Protestants arose when King Henry wanted to divorce his wife. He started his own church where family unity is not that important.
Martin Luther preseeded the Church of England. Both Luther and King Henry did what they did for selfish reasons.
Protestants were before King Henry's breakaway and for a completely different reason
@@777FSHfor the massive corruption the Catholic Church had, and still does
Excuse me, Peter died 180 years before the catholic church was formed, and he died at the hands of the Romans in Judea.Also, it is a disservice to equate him to your whorish church as a big part of his ministry he preached against Idolatry.
Peter’s strong personality and sense of justice that shows up in scriptures, when he speaks out and didn’t he cut off a Roman’s ear? He is the perfect guy to face opposition when preaching the gospel.
It’s nice to see no feathers were ruffled😂
From my perspective the Papacy was and is a Roman title that was given to the Roman Emperor. Jesus and his followers were Jewish so I personally don't believe they would have seen Peter as the Pope. I think that that idea is a tradition that was later read into the words of Peter and Jesus when Christianity became accepted as the Roman religion by Constantine. But this is only my view.
Mate we know who every single pope was from Peter to today. Almost every Pope from Peter to St Sylvester was martyred by Roman emperors. Please just open a Church history book pre 1517.
TRUTH! There's where traditions got mixed in.
You're confusing the title of Pope and that of "Pontifex maximus", which was indeed an official sacerdotal title during the Roman Republic, later conferred to the Emperor. It was abandoned in 382. Pope Theodore I took it back in 642 .
I remember listening to a podcast with the leader of an eastern Orthodox Church. I'm sorry I can't remember which one. When asked about the separation from the Catholic Church he related it back to the desire for a single Pope. They worked together as a group of Apostles for hundreds of years, making decisions together. They capitulated to keep peace but eventually it wasn't working so they split. This was fascinating early Church history.
I would like to hear Jonathans take on this..
I'm curious as to why Bishop Barron isn't on the Roundtable for Catholics anymore 🤔
Because he was too strong...
Great video! Enjoyed all the comments. I agree with you Brandon. Thanks.
Even though there is no direct link between Jonah and Simon bar Jonah, it is still an interesting allegorical or thematical interpretation of the text.
I agree 100%. It’s something that doesn’t really cross your mind and I’m grateful the Rabbi mentioned it. It’s quite plausible too. We do not know Peter’s genealogy - which means we do not know his father’s name either. Jesus is also referred to as the son of David (Gospel of Matthew) but the name of his earthly father is Joseph. So yes, interesting that Simon is referred to “Son of Jonah”. Or maybe we are thinking too much into it and it’s probably just a way to differentiate between him and Simon the zealot! But I have to admit, I do love this allegory ❤
@@jessicadmello5638... The Gentiles were part of the Promise in The Old Testament.
Yes Peter was the first pope
The Roman Catholic church was not even established until hundreds of years later. Peter was not the first pope.
Peter was never a Pope he was a rabbi a teacher he answered to God authority he trained up other believers as did the other disciples and Paul.
Your perspective is a tenacious gear set apart sifting the wheat from the chaff, RIGHT ON!
Although Scripture is important, it is also important how the followers of Christ acted afterwards, these people who actually knew the Apostles, their practices and beliefs. Which is why tradition is important too! And they are aligned with the Catholic Church's teaching. So, I disagree with you too!
I strongly disagree with the catholic beliefs here, but I understand why they hold these views. I will say that there is FAR more going on with this passage of scripture than what is being discussed. Check out Dr. Mike Heiser's work and other Biblical scholars who break down how the "rock" Jesus is referring to isn't just Peter and the other disciples but Mount Hermon itself, which is where they were. This is deeper than what most people are talking about, and Jason just scratched the surface of it.
Love Dr Heiser! He is greatly missed! Paul's statement that we do not war against flesh & blood takes on a whole new meaning & reality when you realize the mindset of the original Old Testament authors!
Love the Roundtables!
So do I!! They’re so informative!!
love the conversation! love learning others point of view.
Wanted to say that Jesus would 100% be speaking Aramaic as it was the international language at the time. Peter in Aramaic is “Kepa”, which is stone/rock. In the Assyrian Church of the East during liturgy he is still referred by the name Kepa. The Assyrian Church of the East has their own pope and I don’t see the issue with the Roman Catholic Church saying that Peter is their first pope, I think it’s just their way of placing hierarchy to positions and legitimacy. It’s not like Peter predetermined who would be next in line or established that position for himself and for the future church. It was just something that the Catholic Church established for themselves (nothing wrong with it). But I do believe that Jesus did have the apostles in hierarchy, otherwise why would Peter, James and John be the main apostles of the group. Moreover, the Assyrian Church does not believe that Mother Mary had other children, otherwise why would Jesus on the cross assign the apostle John as a son to her and that Mary would be like a mother to him. From my perspective the Middle East is patriarchal and there is always a male who is the head of the household, if Mother Mary had a son they would not be a reason for the Apostle John to step in that role. That is my perspective.
I commend the Chosen for consulting with all 3 opinions and also for your, Brandon.
Thank you for creating these videos and really researching information. It’s been wonderful for myself and I’m sure many others to get to know Jesus, the culture, the context and our faith better. However, sometimes we just need to accept that there are things we cannot decipher and will always remain a mystery. Remember Proverbs 3:5 - Trust the LORD completely, and don't depend on your own knowledge and understanding and Isaiah 55:8 - For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways.
May God continue to bless you with the wisdom to help viewers understand and love scripture. ❤
I agree with you about the structure and your take that was different than the priest. The only "structure " is the kingdom of God. There is no biblical implication it was meant for a religious structure.
I'm 43 and raised Roman Catholic from my mom's Italian side. My father was from Scotland and a non practicing protestant. Just over a year ago, I switched to a local bible based congregation. I think Peter was the way to start the lineage of popes for the Catholics and help establish the church hierarchy and structure. I think the gospel just gives Peter his mission. After John Paul II, I didn't like the direction of the church and that we never actually are taught about the Bible. Just my opinion 🙏
I was raised Catholic myself, and one of my uncles worked as a deacon at the Vatican. He used to send me stamps from the pope's mail. But I don't believe for a second that Peter was the first Pope. That is mythology. I trust history for that answer, and I trust the Scriptures which repeatedly says Jesus is the Rock--Simon Peter wasn't elevated. He was given a nick-name to describe his character, much like James and John were called "sons of thunder." If one pays attention, one will notice that Jesus only calls him Peter when he screws up. The rest of the time--even after the resurrection--Jesus calls him Simon. The literal translation from the Greek is "a loose stone." A moveable stone that rolls around the environment--gets kicked around, etc. In the same chapter where Jesus calls him "Peter," just a few verses down, the disciple's sinful character rears up, threatening violence, and Jesus called him "Satan." So, pay attention to the clues. Pay attention to the context.
@@kyrilascully7828 Thank you so much for your thoughtful and interesting response!
Yes! I love his, Rabbi Jason, bringing the Old Testament and the New Testament together the way he does♥️
The Catholic faith offers strong and steady guardrails for staying on the straight and narrow, and reconciliation/confession with a priest is one of them.
I just don’t understand the reason for confessions, if you go and confess your sins to the priest or whatever, what’s the point of that when you can and should just confess to the almighty? And also if they say you are forgiven, no human being has the authority to forgive sins. If you could explain it for my id appreciate it a lot
@@harrisonmauldin5090This is from Ave Maria Press and I think it explains confession well.
“Why go to confession? Here are some excellent reasons: To experience Christ’s love firsthand. Jesus forgave sin. He continues to do so today through his Church and his representatives-bishops and priests-to whom he gave power to forgive in his name: “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained” (Jn 20:23). It is very human to want some assurance of love and forgiveness when we have sinned, and yet repented. Jesus left us this great sign of love to lift our burdens and comfort us.
To tell the truth about ourselves. We all sin. We carry guilt. The New Testament instructs: “If we say, ‘We are without sin,’ we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing” (1 Jn 1:8-9). When we confess our sins aloud to Christ’s representative, the priest, we overcome self-deception. We’ve named our sins, a sure sign of contrition and true repentance. Modern psychology tells us that confession is “good for the soul.” It lifts burdens, relieves guilt, forgives sin, and starts you on a new path on the spiritual journey. The priest, who acts in the person of Christ, says “I absolve you.” We need to hear this to be assured of God’s forgiveness and love for us.”
@@harrisonmauldin5090 Here are some scripture verses for you to read which hopefully will help you see our point of view.
John 20 "21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
James 5 "14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders (Presbyteros/Priest) of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."
1 John 1 "8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."
1 John 5 "16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death."
Hi Brandon, Thank you for sharing the video and the viewpoints. I think the most important aspect of this clip is that Jesus recognizes that the information Peter shared was that it was directly from God. Religion is a hot topic for many and there is no way everyone will agree. I wonder if that’s what God wanted. Get the discussion started and share ideas. You did well Brandon and I learn so much from your videos. Many blessings! 😊
Dallas very rarely looks over at the Catholic priest. Why is that?
They should add an orthodox priest
Misrepresented or not represented? There’s a difference.
@@ashleydanielson3222
Sorry English ain't my first language
I meant to say that is not represented
Nobody on the chosen has misrepresented my believes
Hmmmm. Let the scripture speak for itself. Wisdom.
always believed the true church is built on "the Rock of Revelation" and not a person, even the grammar seems to agree. may we all preserve the Spirit of unity in the bond of peace until we all attain oneness in faith. eph 4
The problem is that the rock of Revelation becomes mud when so many people disagree on how to interpret it. That's why its interpretation is not left to any Billy Bo Biblethumper, but to the Church as a whole, under the lead of the successors of the Apostles, the Successor of Peter being the chief among them.
Thank you Brandon! I look for your videos every day! God Bless Everyone!
I wish dallas would look at the priest morealways.
Dallas RARELY looks at the priest! I’ve always felt bad for the priest (no I’m not Catholic). The priest doesn’t get much of a chance to speak.
He would just say something not biblical.
@@lance9249 Or, which would be even more embarrassing, he would say something biblical that they wouldn't agree with.
We don't know why he does or doesn't do that so let's not gossip and pretend to know this guy like he's our best friend. Gossiping is certainly not something God approves of.
@@jus4000kicks I didn’t say WHY. I said just that he didn’t look his way much when he was talking.
@@kathybj If we don't know why and won't be able to find it out its a useless thing to point. Way too many people are focusing on this small thing in comparison to perhaps more fruitful discussion.
😂😂 yup not even a gaze to the priest 😅
As an Evangelical, I think Dallas has that underlying dislike of Catholics. He definitely pays much more attention to the Rabi and the Evangelical preacher, on ALL roundtables.
I think it may be him being nervous? Like he doesn't want to offend? Idk, I'm just glad I'm not in his position. I'd have a very hard time keeping my mouth shut with my opinions. 😅
@@TheChosenSleuth Yeah, Dallas definitely has very much a soft spot for that. lol And, yeah I would too, Brandon. Haha Sometimes, I say too much. 🤣
@@TheChosenSleuthwho cares what you’d say, the Catholic Church is from the first century, the apostles formed the church, appointed successors of the church, and they have writings which perfectly explain the teachings of the church in the 1st and 2nd century. The Protestant churches are from the 1600’s, and if you think the later churches are right in their exegesis and understanding of scripture then I have nothing else to say😂 history, tradition, and the apostles own successors affirm the Catholic teachings 😂😂😂
If you watched the roundtable you would see he looked directly at Father Guffey (sp?) and stated we’re not naming anyone Pope here at the beginning of the conversation.
There is not a magical office that appears out of nowhere. The pope’s office is not magical. Catholicism is not magical. It is organized in its beliefs. I think having a none Catholic presenting thoughts on whether Peter was the first pope could be gaslighting if it isn’t taken in the context of the discussion that Dallas’s round table is trying to encourage.
Rabi Sobel is great at pointing out "coincidences". And there is a coincidence that Simon's father was named Jonah, and it was Jonah that brought salvation to a nation of gentiles. There doesn't have to be an "actual" connection for it to be "interesting". Take enough interesting coincidence and you start wondering... does God use these things for the type of personality that likes to delve into the details and uses them to further prove he created everything and everyone. It seems more often than not, the connection is there, whether it’s coincidence or intent is impossible to say.
Very convenient for him, however, every single typological reference in the NT is completely intentional by the Apostles.
Yes he is and read the bible Matthew 16:18
Or was the Church literally being build on the Rock, at the opening to Hades. Dr Michael Heisser makes a lot of sense on this. I do think Peter, and all the Disciples have critical roles in spreading the Gospel. I think at the end of the day the important thing, critical to all of us is JESUS. And following his teaching, behavior, live for his Glory.
Gosh, I love this rabbi! He is so fair and so smart and so inclusive.
There should (must) be an orthodox priest in this roundtable
These* roundtables*
I’ve noticed in all seasons with the round tables that Dallas has the Catholic away from the other two and is always turned away and hardly ever looks in the Catholics direction. Not sure if that’s intentional but it is rude
Yes, and often the priest has his back turned to the camera. It's like Dallas Jenkins does not want to confront him. Why? That priest seems rather meek, and even sometimes hesitant. The poor guy is alone against the other three... I preferred when it was Robert Barron. But maybe he was too strong for Dallas?
@@Xerxes2005 Well of the 3 he's always wrong makes sense.
@@lance9249 First, they usually agree, since they're all Christians. But, no, the three others are wrong of course...
The word for small rock or pebble would have been lithos.
As for Jesus' siblings(through Mary), if she had other children, it would have been unheard of in 1st Century Judaism for her to care to have been entrusted to anyone but the the closest living relative.
No, because John was at the cross. Jesus's brothers did not believe he was the One until the resurrection.
@suzanneobrien781 Sorry, but that doesn't work. Jesus wouldn't have addressed the issue if Mary had other children. It would have been automatic that they would take their mother in. That's how 1st century Jewish society worked. What do you think Jesus was addressing in Mark 7:10-13. Respect for one's parents is enshrined in the commandments, and in those days, older parents and widows depended on their family to provide for them.
@@patricktinley6545 Jesus had brothers and sisters. It is mentioned several times in scripture. You can believe whatever you want. It won't change the truth.
@suzanneobrien781 Matthew 13:55-56 four men are named as brothers (adelphoi) of the Lord: James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude.
In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary of Magdala.” Cross reference this with Matthew 27:56: “Among them [at the cross] were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” We see that at least two of the men mentioned in Matthew 13 were definitely not siblings of Jesus (although they’re called adelphoi); they were Jesus’ cousins-sons of their mother’s sister.
The terms brothers and sisters in the English translation do not necessarily refer to siblings(or half siblings if they were children of Mary, the mother of Jesus). The same term was also used in Genesis to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were uncle and nephew, and it can refer to cousins or other kinship relationships. Also, there is a pius tradition among the Eastern Churches that Joseph was a widower prior to marrying Mary and had children from his first wife and that would make them siblings(step-siblngs) of Jesus, but not children of Mary.(And I already explained the issue of Jesus entrusting the care of His mother to John.)
@@suzanneobrien781yes in Matthew!
Do not forsake the gathering together. As is the habit of some. Confessing your sins, one to another. That you may be healed. It doesn't tell is to find a priest to confess our sins
There’s really no “position” or title in Scripture called a pope. When Yeshua/Jesus called Peter (Kefa - Rock), he wasn’t saying he - Peter - was the rock he would build his church upon, but the faith he showed. The church is built on the faith that he is the Messiah and the Son of the living God.
Kefa was his name from Hebrew, not “Petros” from the Greek.
It was what we call a Hebraism, or a Hebrew idiom. Like Adam came from the Adamah (ground), Yeshua would yoshia (save), etc..
Where there is no instruction, there is no doctrine. Peter was never instructed to establish a church outside of simply delivering the gospel message which is what EVERY believer is commissioned to do.
The priesthood in the OT is only useful if there is a Temple, and we don’t have one, so no priesthood. Other than the priesthood of the Melchizedek, but that’s another topic.
Catholicism has a glaring issue seeing as Constantine changed the sabbath to Sunday WHICH HE HAD NO AUTHORITY TO DO. They mixed Passover and First Fruits with Easter (named after the goddess of fertility). Prayer beads, confession booths, prayer to dead believers in spite of the command not to speak to the dead, Mary worship, etc., Catholicism is probably one of the least Scripture-based “Christian” religions, if they can even be called Christian.
Except there is, the Keeper of the Keys of the House of David is known as a “father” by the inhabitants of Judah - Pope = Father. Christ names Peter as the rock with the keys - Christ is the wiseman who builds his Church (house of God) on the rock (Peter)
@@lukewilliams448Not really. There’s only one father - God.
Matt 23:
“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.”
Point blank, don’t be called father.
@@Maikigai So you’re essentially calling St Peter and St Paul deceivers etc
@@lukewilliams448No. I think he's calling those who developed that belief the deceivers. There's even a pagan goddess called The Queen Of Heaven. Her names were/are Inanna, Astarte, Astroth, Isis, and many others depending on what civilization the people came from & their languages.
@@Maikigai 1 Corinthians 4:14-16 "14 I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me."
Satan wins when believers argue about these details. Who knows the answer to this? Holy Spirit who provides wisdom to us when we ask in accordance with His perfect will for our lives. Our opinions don't matter. God does.
I think the main argument is to what point does tradition hold. Catholics and some parts of Orthodox hold tradition as dual role in building and teaching the Church as a deposit of faith. My wife would say that tradition is unreliable and thus why as Protestants don't believe in the traditions. Yet, not all traditions where thrown out, Trinity being one of them, or the sacrament nature of marriage and how it's preformed. A lot of the Catholic/Orthodox traditions come out of temple worship preformed by Levites. Think of the bread of the presents and other examples of the old testament. As a Catholic married to a Protestant, we often really disagree on how even worship is worship. Simply because when you remove the traditions, your left making things ups as in music style lower church liturgy or higher church liturgy which is based on Catholic liturgy and temple liturgy.
What I find is that Protestants don't understand is the point of Catholic Mass. Catholics don't understand the point of Protestant liturgy when it's not the True Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist . Simply put my wife's church has reduced the Real Presence to symbol. Yet why, because its seen as a form of work or earning something, when it was freely given. I can keep going on and on.... Yet where all going to keep going back to the debate of the Solae's and the foundation of faith, because of the removal of tradition.
I clearly see both sides, and so can other protestants. It always goes back to belief, similar to Sadducees vs. Pharisees. There comes to a point that we treat each other as brothers in Christ.
Hello Brandon 👋
Yeah, I agree with you, Brandon, in regards to Peter, "son of Jonah" and that being Jonah who was sent by God to preach to the Ninevites. What about Paul? He became the apostle to the Gentiles---not Peter.
But I do NOT discount that Peter did preach to Gentiles and reached them.
Brandon, I mean my comments to be educational, not confrontational. I hope you will see that, because I'm not trying to be controversial or instigational.
It is clear as day who the brothers of Jesus were, the parents of the brothers were mentioned in later parts of the gospels
When Jesus stepoed back onto the rock i thought he meant where they are standing that Jesus was going to build his church where they are standing. Correct me if im wrong. Also that Simon Peter would continue after Jesus death
I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding about the term Pope. The Pope historically would be the Bishop of Rome. The Bishop of Rome then was given much power by the Emperor in Constantinople. Now the Bishop had more than one church and was making Bishops. So you have an unbroken chain is what the Roman Church is saying. They have Peters body and Pauls according to them. Although, it is impossible to really verify other than looking at cause of death to the bones.
You're trying very hard (too hard?) to prove your point, Brandon.Theologically, I probably stand somewhere near to you, yet I so fully enjoy this group listening intently to each other, trying to see the value in convictions that are not their own. After all, we do serve One and the Same God (and this is not the time & place to dive any deeper, is my take on this)!
As for your remark that "the priest" is holding back: you obviously haven't seen the next Round Tables, where he is sharing (and encouraged to share!) in far more detail and explaining how non-Catholics sometimes misunderstand and/or jump to conclusions too quickly.
It's so uncomfortable for Catholics to be always in the firing line...makes me sad.Brandon has a field day....that priest is not the best rep for Catholics.
Yes. I’m checking this out because I was hoping it would be more fair.
But we Catholics are much more agreeable to the protestants than the other way around.
It seems like Brandon is still in his preaching mode from his previous pastoring a church.
Because he’s telling us all when he agrees or with what he doesn’t agree with, and he is trying to persuade us to believe what his teachings are…for us all to listen to, and consider.
He’s not my pastor I don’t even think he’s a pastor anymore, but he’s taking up the pastor role on his RUclips channel in my opinion.
I stopped watching him sadly because I like him quite a bit. But I’ve been Catholic all my life and I’m 77 and he has his immature understanding of things.
And Brandon always tells us what he thinks as if he’s correct I think he’s very prideful and he’s young that’s all!
I can say perhaps he’ll grow into more understanding of the larger picture as he gets older.
Because he’s a sweet person and so is his wife but this is making me not want to watch them because it’s not kind to anybody to do this.
And by the way, The Chosen isn’t about denominations and he’s making it like that and that disturbs me. Sorry.
This priest is a basic nice guy. He has no personality to join this group. Where did they get him? There are tons, more priest that would’ve been a better choice. Sad to say.
And Brandon laughing Brandon at everybody isn’t nice either because you think that they’re all trying to keep the peace because you think it’s funny how they’re doing it.
You are criticizing the way they’re doing it as if you know what’s best.
You seem to be able to read their minds, and what they’re doing…
Brandon, I pray for you to get humility because this is causing division just so you know.
The Chosen isn’t meant to have these discussions to divide people it is supposed to call them together and help them understand each other!!
You’re not doing that I’m sorry.
Again, I’ve watched you a long time and I really really think you’re awesome but this part of you has to grow up because it saddens me it really does.
Because you have no idea of what true theologians and Bible scholars wrote about these things in detail for centuries.
Do you think you’re smarter than them?
I think you might want to read and listen to some of the brilliant people out there who have discovered answers to some of the stuff that you still don’t agree with,
And there’s reasons and there’s proof.
There are volumes written on this, and you think you have all the answers?
I feel like you’re making fun of our beliefs, and insisting that yours are correct and sadly that’s how you come across.
You have been brought up to be very literal, which is understandable because you are an anti-Catholic and you are a fundamentalist and that’s OK .
But I wouldn’t speak to you like you’re speaking to me and us about my beliefs that are right and you’re wrong because that causes division and conflict and that’s what’s happening sadly.
OK I’ve said enough. God bless you I will pray for you and now I guess I’m going to have to not watch anymore….that saddens me but that’s OK there’s other things out there.
Brandon, you want discussion but you’re not discussing your insisting that you’re right that’s different it doesn’t mean you’re understanding or trying to understand my point of view or the Catholic point of you because you’ve already made up your mind and I think to have an open mind and listen to other people and make decisions and have discernment is much more kind. God bless you again.
@@joolz5747...This is a brilliant summary of what us,as Catholics have to go through,and its a form of persecution,which I never thought we would get on this platform,but I feel that Catholics are not fairly represented in this very submissive priest... I am not watching any more,neither,as it upsets me so much.
Also,Dallas should be more open.He has surprised me too,about his attitude.
@@janiceturner7137 TBH, the Catholics "could be more open." Dallas is not Catholic. He Idoes not believe some of the Catholic theology. The Chosen is his show. I think his attitude is fine. In fact, it seems to me that he makes a lot of concessions to keep the Catholic audience happy.
@@suzanneobrien781 Is that how you see it?There shouldn't be any of this in the first place....
Hello Brandon sorry I missed your live.
It doesn’t matter “what you believe” it matters what was taught in the 1st century after Jesus died, what did the early church fathers teach, and how did the Church worship in service?? All the answers are there for you to find🤣🤣 who cares what you believe?? It matters what is taught and proven, and there’s ZERO history until the 1600’s.🤣
Oh, the Dead Sea Scrolls gave plenty of history from way before Jesus! They were before the false teachings of the Saducees and Pharasees and modern Judaism. In fact, their calendar had the exact year & season Messiah would arrive & be sacrificed. The Essenes were the original teachings and align with basic Christian doctrine from at least 200 BC. Dr Ken Johnson has studied those "voices from the dirt" (as the ancient profits called those scrolls) intensely and is fascinating to listen to!
Ken has some excellent information and teachings. His DSS calendar presentations are top notch!
Peter's name was simon first, jesus changed it to peter which the name means the Rock , patros or peter meaning Rock, tell me if Peter was not the rock jesus was refering to why did Jesus change his name from Simon to Peter?
Yes he was !!!♥️
God is the builder of the church on Peter the rock on which he builds it.
"You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God" this declaration is the foundation of the church not Peter.
@@lance9249 tell me why did jesus change his name then from simon to peter, the name peter means rock, thats how God of Israel changed the name Jacob to Israel for a new responsibility .
Read the writings of the church fathers.
When you look at the disciples and how they floundered a bit without JHWH it does point to a need for them to have a leader. However, when you look at the disciples... they were human and as we all do, we make decisions, and mistakes, on our human understandings. So... what would be the better leader for disciples, us, after JHWH is no longer with us? Could it be that JHWH brought that leader, helper, to us before he went to heaven... the Holy Spirit? IMHO while the disciples, the books they wrote, the teachings, Elohim's Word, they spread is the foundation with Peter being the cornerstone with all the lessons we learn from his humanness. Hope that makes sense.
💜
"Protestants & Catholics don't comment on social media!" LOLLLL.
The way I see it: If the Catholic Church holds him as the first pope... then Peter was the first pope LOL. Now, if someone doesn't agree with the papacy and re: church leadership of course that's one thing, but if the Church founded the church leadership via way of Peter and the concencration Jesus bestowed on him, then that's what they did.
I'm actually looking forward to the discussions we'll all have moving forward! I enjoy healthy convo about this and our understanding. 🙂
Look, I don't think it's a salvation issue, to support or not to support a Pope. So we can just agree to disagree, okay?😊
unless you are referring to him as "Holy Father' instead of the true Holy Father (God).
Sorry, "but God',s plan included Gentiles in the Old Testament". Long before Peter.
I thought the Roman’s become Christian’s 300 years later through Constantine. Did not know Peter lived that long. Totally confused. Hmmm
Do a deep dive of research on Constantine. We have been hoodwinked.
No Constantine just played them and brought paganism into the Catholic church
Peter was NOT the first pope!
Jesus is the Rock of my salvation.
Lol people who don't know scripture and the true God are fighting. First go into your faith's history. Then come to the keyboard or open your mouth.
This one line in Scripture has been a thorn in the side for, many years ..way too long.
Especially without Scriptural Confirming itself.
Matthew is the ONLY time in Scripture that too many don't get...
And I don't get it.
The disciples ask Jesus who is greatest in the New Testament in multiple places, including:
Luke 22:24-30
The disciples argue about who is greatest among them, and Jesus tells them that whoever is greatest should be like the younger and serve as they govern.
(,Little side note here. When Jesus answered the disciples question. What Jesus' response was, that HE was the Greatest, and would serve the children, while HE tells them what is needed, and shows them how....which is similar to something else Jesus says that many don't seem to understand . When the adulteress had been "caught", they wanted to stone her, Jesus' response to that was, drawing in the sand, before He said, "Let whoever is without sin, cast the first stone" Again, referring to Himself as being the He without sin. Why He wrote it on sand, which of and in itself has a few meanings, one of which was..He hadn't yet been Crusifictied, so what He wrote in the sand, was what He said, so that if anyone didn't understand, or wanted to stone another, it would be there. Because He said it in a way, so as to have them think it was them he was addressing, and they knew they sinned. Also, writing His Word on the sand wasn't law yet, like The Law Of Moses written on Stone...unperishable, Jesus' body...perishable. The first stone cast... Figure it out, as it isn't hard... The point is, that Jesus spoke in Parables far more than what is often taught.)
Matthew 18:1-3, 19:27-30
The apostles ask who would be the greatest, and Jesus tells them that they have selfish ambitions and don't understand their request.
Matthew 20:25-28
The disciples ask Jesus who is greatest in the kingdom of heaven, and Jesus tells them that their conception of greatness is wrong. He says that whoever wants to be great should care for others and be their servant, and that the greatest in the kingdom are those who are humble and meek.
Luke 22:24
Then they began to argue among themselves about who would be the greatest among them. Jesus told them, “In this world the kings and great men lord it over their people, yet they are called 'friends of the people. ' But among you it will be different.
Then there is this...
John 21:20-23
20Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?”
22Jesus said to him, “If I [h]will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”
23Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”
I think that is enough, but there is more.
May God in Christ Bless you
FIRST😁
like a Venn diagram, Peter’s circle intersects all of ours.
To the catholics, Peter is their first pope. Sure, let them.
To all others, Peter is the great apostle leader.
We can share Peter that way, why not !
It doesn't seem like anyone's arguing so I don't understand the commentary about how they are dancing around the subject. Doesn't make sense to me. It seems like it's turning a molehill into a mountain.
NO!!! Peter is NOT the first pope!!! 😂😢😅
Matthew 16 Isaiah 22, Christ was making Peter the keeper of the keys, which is literally what the papal office is
Sola scriptura isn’t even a biblical following 🤣🤣🤣🤣 you say you follow this and not the church tradition, yet the church tradition is ANCIENT and sola scriptura is NEW🤣🤣
There's absolutely nothing new about sola scriptura lol. The Jews were known for thousands of years as "THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK" The book is the core of who they were and it's how they lived their lives. "All scripture us God-breathed" or more importantly, "I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another." - 1 cor 4:6
@@TheChosenSleuth you have to put those quotes in context and in the context Paul isn’t talking about sticking to the scriptures only as sola scriptura says, but Paul is speaking about not pronouncing judgment on one another before the Lord comes, he is also using the term “nothing beyond what is written” to clarify to the readers not to judge anyone with more than what they already have given to them in the writing, more simply, don’t add to it. The book of Corinthians didn’t have verses when it was written, it is a continuous book from one thought to the next. You don’t get to cherry pick a verse that sounds like sola scriptura but has nothing to do with it in the context 🤣
@@brennanhughes976explain the context bro
@@sciencescholar3440 I did above, Paul isn’t saying don’t go beyond what is written in scripture in general, meaning you can’t take church history and tradition into account, he is saying not to go beyond what the scriptures say you should judge one another, meaning your judgement isn’t greater than what God has declared for you. We can not cherry pick verses that sound like they agree with our viewpoint without understanding the context it was placed in.
Who is Jesus's brothers portrayed in season 3 ? I must have totally missed it 😳
They are mentioned , they don’t appear on screen.
@@TheChosenSleuth I think I do remember that, I think they were at a party or something, thanks for letting me know 😊
@@MrDavenez when Jesus goes back to see his mother in that episode, he asks her, “Where’s James and Jude?” Or he may have said, “No James and Jude?” Like he was asking where they were. She told Jesus that they preferred not to be there. They didn’t believe that Jesus was the Messiah.
@@user-zh3pu7qo6oYet after the resurrection James ran the church in Jerusalem and was the 1st real martyr. Strange that Big James also became the 1st martyr of the Apostles. And Jude wrote that very short book of the Bible, just before The Revelation! So we know that at least those 2 brothers of Jesus became believers.
@user-zh3pu7qo6o Oh, Yes I do remember that, thanks so much for helping me to remember 💖
how then does the Catholic System differ from the Sanhedrin ?
Simon Peter was a Jew, not a Roman Catholic! Jesus is The Way, the only way, to God and everlasting life!
Peter wass the first Pope. Protestant religion was a breakaway from the Catholic Church. Calvinism, Lutheranism, Henry VIII and Church of England, and other off-shoots of those who did not like the structure of the Catholic Church and the Pope of the time😘
So are you saying all the apostles that went to different places in the world started the gospel with different beliefs than Peter all over ? Is that why we have break away religions ? I am so confused 🫤
@@MrDavenezyou took the post and ran away with it…this is not what the person wrote
@@MrDavenez he didn't wrote that, there was no debate over the Papacy until 500 years ago when a group anglos and germans wanted fulfill and justify their own desires.
@@RichterX83 Yeah. I'm not sure ANYBODY was listening to "the voice of God" when they chose old man Borgia as pope of the Catholic Church. 🙄 Never a more corrupt & incestuous family in power - EVER.
@yannirepeynado I didn't mean any disrespect, I am truly asking because I didn't even know that Catholics believed Peter was the first Pope. I'm not Catholic so I was just asking about how they believe. I went to a Catholic Church once as a teenager with a friend and I loved it ❤️
THE ROCK Is that MOUNTAIN, Which is the Earth. AS spoken in Isaiah/
There is little to no evidence that Peter ever went to Rome. Peter went to Babylon and established a church. Babylon was the second largest Jewish population at that time. ❤
Beg pardon????
Goodness gracious! It is historical consensus that Babylon was code word for Rome. EVERY Church father writing in the first few centuries of the church state Peter went to Rome and established the Church of Rome, and was later helped in this task by the Apostle Paul, and then the Roman episcopate was passed to St Linus.
It seems that more and more scenes are compromised in order to appease the Catholic audience. The best thing to do is to stay true to Scripture. Nobody is going to agree 100% with the way things are presented. The important thing is to please God first, not the viewers.
The problem with saying Peter is the first pope is to make this all about a man who is clearly flawed. This is to my understanding one of the fundamental problems I see with the Catholic faith. It ends up in my mind with making Christianity about a man instead of about Jesus. This in turn makes Catholic Christianity end up becoming just like the man made religion the pharisees were observing. Without Jesus, Peter would not have been able to do what he did. It must be focused on Jesus.
You’ve been right here Brandon but people do care Who the rock/Rock is. I’m also Protestant. I’ve been taught (and explanation is in my study Bible) that Jesus is the Rock and Peter as rock. And my study Bible is a way older version not a recent one).
Peter was never a Pope or Catholic...
Geez, a lot of tap dancing to press a point by Doug, Dallas, and maybe you too, Sleuth. You just preach too much! Is that the purpose of this site? Maybe.
Disagree agreeably
My thought why the priest didn't weigh in more was bc he didn't have the historical evidence other than what the catholic church says. Very rigid (my opinion, made up) information. I grew up catholic but have always felt like it just wasn't quite right. I am in a Bible based community now and it definitely fills in where catholicism lacked. Again, my belief, my opinion.
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