30:45 - “Cesar committed two major mistakes when dealing with his defeated rivals […]. The second misunderstanding is that he assumed that they were much more intelligent and perceptive than they actually were.” _Love it._
Caesar's behaviour before his assassination was so careless and reckless that it has been seriously suggested that he was deliberately courting assassination as a political move, a case of suicide by senator.
I just read Barry Strauss’ Death of Caesar, and he makes a compelling case for Caesar being a foreal risk junkie, and his Ides attitude was an extension of that. Barry articulates it far better!
Pompey said this while operating under Sulla's command. "'Will you not give up reading laws to us men girt with swords?" This man would go on to become the ""Defender of the Republic"".
Actually the incompetence of Metellus Scipio contributed to making history more than Caesar's genius and Pompey's skills combined. He was the true history maker of the time.
Possibly so, but if it wasn't Scipio, it'd be somebody else... having severely corrupt people lead who weren't necessarily capable but simply held their interests in mind? Seems the typical Rome to me. They didn't really typically have a history of picking qualified men in these kinds of positions... It was all about interests in mind. In fact, they actually seemed to be more and more likely to want to kill you the more capable you were, and this only worsened as Rome progressed on (see: Majorian... Stilicho... near the fall of the Empire). Perhaps it was unfortunate Scipio was especially unwise, but Caesar was a crafty cookie and probably could've handled almost anyone they threw at him, because their talent pool...well... for the most part, wasn't very talented (at least militarily). You don't conquer the amount of territories he did with luck alone of others incompetence for the most part.
Honestly he wasn't *that* bad. His overall strategy wasn't terrible. Caesar was just at his A game in terms of maneuver and was able to finally force a battle to his terms
Late releases are the fking best! Me and my girlfriend just had a bad breakup and part of the reason is because I’m obsessed with Rome. You’re the best!
Damn really? You have my condolences for the bad break up, but you spending time on things your passionate about is a healthy way to deal. History is great and Roman history in particular is fascinating. Maybe if it is in the cards for your situation take a history class on rome. In my class we just read meditations by Marcus Aurelius one of my fav emperors. His Stoic philosophy might be helpful to you after a breakup i know it would've helped me after mine
@@MrWeezy312 Thanks man. The fact that we broke up I think will be a good thing and opportunity as it was a toxic situation. You’re right, I watch historical documentaries instead of entertaining other women. That should be a good thing lol. She said a lot of horrid things to me on my way out and they still echo in my head but that too shall pass. Thanks again brother.
@@WaveChronicles0 at the end of the day new knowledge and hard work will make you better every day. People can be temporary but if you learn to master the process of day to day work and stress you’ll be able to accomplish anything, wish you all the best.
True. It is to Octavian's credit that he cultivated a loyal friendship and utilized the talents of such a person. The best leaders in history are known because of the achievements of the people they trusted.
@@azzgunther They were childhood friends, that's not something in your control. When he handed over the armies to him, he wasn't tested yet, it was nearly pure luck that he ended up being so talented, especially since Octavian had no idea interest in military, so he would have had no idea what makes a great general. Not to mention that Agrippa never tried to betray him, even though he had plenty oppurtunities to do so, and most generals in his position would. Octavian lucked out so incredibly much on one of his childhood friends ending up the one of the most competent AND most loyal general in roman history. And on the topic of giving Octavian credit for being such a talented HR manager that he surrounded himself only with the best people... He let his relatives manipulate succession behind his back (including murders), he let the Claudians into the ruling family, who were there strictly for personal benefits, and overall he failed in many instances related to identifying people's true intentions. He let the "republic" in such state that it could never recover and would be guaranteed to turn into an empire, while then handing the empire to people completly unfit to be in such position. While you can claim that it wasn't his fault that his successors weren't as good as him, it doesn't take a genius to figure out your system will break once it happens. Between purging the political class, not dealing with the germanic tribes, establishing praetorian guard, making his office hereditary, failing to secure proper succession and making sure republican tradition was dead for good, he set up Rome for an inevitable failiure. It's tiring only hearing praise for him, without anybody ever taking a proper look at what his actions ACTUALLY did, to the point he is consistently considered as the undisputed top emperor and the best thing that has ever happened to Rome.
@@bumbuyman All well worth considering. The gist of my point is that we too often overrate the individual as some sort of conduit through with perfection flows into our universe and, in so doing, we tend to not properly appreciate that the truly notable men were great delegators. They had the ability to identify and surround themselves with people who, whatever their strengths or weaknesses, thrive when working under their boss. How far does Genghis Khan go without Subutai? Caesar found people to pick up Mark Anthony's slack in matters of administration and enjoyed his tactical abilities when backed into a corner (he credits Anthony with saving the day at the Battle of Alesia). His campaign in Gaul benefited from Labienus being adept at holding regions. Imagine how quickly the Gallic Wars would have been lost if he had to deal with the same clowns that Julian had to deal with centuries later. And though Lebienus defected during the Civil War, he didn't stab Caesar to death as so many Roman emperors' cadres killed their leaders in the coming centuries. I default to that perspective on leaders. It's as strange to say that Octavian is nothing without Agrippa as it is to say that Octavian was a perfect individual who did it all on his own. The reality is that he lived a long life of getting more things right than wrong, nurtured good luck when he got it, and found people with whom he could create major change in the world.
@@azzgunther We see plenty critiques of Ceasar and GengisKhan, but for some reason Augustus is nearly immune to it, I would like to see that change. But he built a cult of personality, that somehow not only persisted for the entire duration of the Roman Empire, but still exists today, while most other great leaders and empire founders are looked at much more critically.
@@bumbuyman On that topic: do you have any names that you'd suggest that I look further into? The capacity of the individual is a topic that fascinates me and so people like Caesar, Khan, Phillip II (and his son, sort of), Cyrus the Great, etc. have been fun historical examples to study. I'm looking for more obscure names of people whose stories I should know.
My favorite part of your late republic series is how with every video you put forth with more confidence that Metellus Scipio was the head of the bonii, while also insulting him more and more. Big fan.
Hi, I've been a huge fan of this channel for a long, long time, but I don't think many would agree with the characterization of Caesar that he really just wanted to "get his war face on" and was not so interested in politics or the economy, or law, etc. He passed endless reforms, engaged in many building projects, roads, draining marshes, modified ordinances within Rome, reorganized Italy(or began the process, such as adding Cisalpine Gaul into the districts of Italy, and extending citizenship to its inhabitants), added new senators, elevated the non-Roman Italian aristocracy, built up Rome's port, and so on. He passed morality laws, and designated himself as the censor of morality. In fact, a great bulk of Augustus's reforms and actions were begun by Caesar between 49-44bc. The guy clearly had ideas.
Caesar actually had 3 provinces, Transalpine Gaul, Cisalpine Gaul, and Illyricum. Illyricum gave him one more legion at the outset of the Gallic War. He even campaigned in Illyricum one of the years as there was a Dalmatian incursion and he needed to keep the integrity of those borders.
My daughter has lived in Switzerland since 2017. One day about I realized I didn't have her full address, so she texted it to me. The last part was Lusanne,Vaud, HC. I'm like HC what the hells that. She told me that stood for Helvetic Confederation. I laughed my but off because I had told myself once I had the spare time I was gonna read Mommsens History of the Roman Republic and boy is that Great. But my boy JC made his bones battling the Helvetii and here's my daughter living right in the neighborhood.
Oh by the way Be nice to your brother Getas not so bad and if you're ever in the Grampian s again ,for God's sake make sure the scouts and sentries are on their toes. And you might want to always lock the bathroom door.
Funnily enough I’ve been reading The Landmark book on Caesars many wars and I must say the translation makes it very easy to follow his exploits, essentially reading like an action novel in many aspects. Not only that but it makes you realise how shrewd a politician Caesar was with his use of language in order to justify his actions (as most of what he wrote was being sent directly to the Senate in Rome). A great read for anyone who can get their hands on it!
For now I'm into Appian and Polybius. There is a lot more great stuff to read from these Greeks and Romans than I have the time or eye-sight. That's what like about Thersites. They can do the reading so I don't have to.
I have bought every Landmark book series out there after reading the Caesar landmark one. The amount of information in it is incredible, the elaborations, the maps, the details, the notes, the other little things it does to stand out. Really helps. And you can also choose to ignore notes at the bottom if you find that kind of thing annoying. For a fair bit of criticism about it though, I do find the notes sometimes to be almost excessive and repetitive, sometimes it just seems like "filler" to even the page notes out. That's my one and only complaint about the series really. If you didn't know, there is a new Landmark being released next month, in December, the Anabasis. I'm excited to grab a copy of that one.
Its a shame you didn't talk about the assassination of Cicero but I guess in the grand scheme of history, he didn't do anything that important. His consulship was bland. He didn't lead any armies. He was just really good at getting the Senate to do what he wanted.
Cicero murdered thousands of people during his consulship, and was forced into temporary exile as a consequence. He was a good lawyer and speaker, and probably had some idea that the Republic was foundering, but other than sentimental appeal had no tools to fix it. Those who cannot eat, and retired soldiers who want land, cannot be placated by sentiment for old legal forms.
Caesar's calendar needed correcting nearly right away by his successor Augustus. The original Julian calendar had a leap year every three years instead of every 4 years.
This was one hell of a video!! and I am very excited about your Augustus video, I always wondered how did he single handily created a new order that ended the civil war and no one rebelled under him, and how later his successors was NOT able to recreate this success with all the later civil wars happening again.
Pope Gregory wasn't in the middle ages, I think you said this in other videos too, he was a Pope of the late 1500s and his calendar reform was in 1582.
15:15 Julius Caesar's funeral pyre was "almost" The Temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus... That's like burning down the Whitehouse for Abraham Lincoln... Or burning down the Second Temple in honor of King Solomon...Shit doesn't make any sense... But MAN, that's hardcore
Who would be the first recognized Emperor? Because even Agustus kept up the "first among equals" notion. Was Tiberius the first legally recognized Emperor by the Senate? Roman videos are great as always!
Tiberius pretty much left things as they had been during the last years of Augustus, when he had been effectively co - emperor. Claudius was the first person to try something new.
19:49 "If he took an IQ test, the results would come back negative!" LMAO gotdamn, Thersites, I love your videos but I didn't know you had jokes like that :)
The meeting at Luca happened to renew the triumvirate not to form it, that meeting happened to extend Caesar’s command but in this video you make it sound like the Luca conference is where they first decided to ally
While i agree that Senate picking fight against Caesar is a big mistake but this is a first time that Metellus is much to be blamed. I only knew Cato are the one who sabotaged for Caesar compromised to hold only 1 legion in exchange for Caesar reelection and Bibilus are the one who is incompetent. Edit : this is also the only one that i see that Caesar dictator just kinda skimmed over, there are no mention of Caesar seems to desire kingship(to be fair this could be senatorial propaganda considering Caesar should be too politically savvy for that) and of course that one of the Caesar assasin is Brutus is also not mentioned.
@Thersites the historian I would love to have a conversation with you about this specific timeline of Caesar’s first election as consul to his death, focusing on the career and relationships of both Caesar and Labienus.. myself and a few other friends of mine have been working on a Script for a TV show that would cover this timeframe and having done lots of research on this topic I know I still have a lot more to learn before we can continue to tackle our script. For clarification we are college graduates with history, political science, and film degrees between us. Not trying to waste your time… (The pilot episode ends with with Caesar crossing the pomerium to stand for election)
@TyniBi yeah this would be an ensemble style show with a focus on historical realism that follows the major players of the late republic with a focus on Caesar and labenius but does follow Crassus all the way to him and his sons death. Follows the 8th,9th,10th and 13 legions, Pompeii and his role in Roman politics. Senate elections and the division between reformers and “conservatives”. The gaulic wars, the civil war, the Alexandria campaign, the North Africa campaign. Watch Julius Caesar take a political system by storm and then destroy the means to repair it.
did Caesar had any actual battle plan for Parthia? I mean, if he had marched in there Roman style, he also would have been kited and shot to pieces. thanks
There's a reason Caesar is known as one of the great generals of all time. If you think he was going to pull a Crassus or Antony, you are out of your mind
@@herbthompson8937 talking? What's wrong with you? I aksed a question under a video. My ass is irrelevant here :- ) Do you know what Caesar's actual battle plans were for Parthia?
Crassus' handling of the situation wasn't that stupid really in that he imagined the Parthians would run out of arrows. Surena, the Parthian general that doesn't get enough credit, was only expecting to stall the Romans since his army was stuck fighting in Armenia. So he had a mobile cavalry force and gave them an entire baggage train with nothing but arrows just to hold them off. Crassus' problem is that they were led by competent people. They shot at the Romans, then charged whenever he got into a shield wall since they wouldn't effectively fight in melee in such a formation. After Crassus' noticed they kept resupplying, he tried to force a breakout but the breakout force ended up getting ambushed since the Parthians hid some of their numbers and couldn't be reinforced fast enough. After the breakout force that included Crassus' son was slaughtered, the Romans eventually lost their nerve and I don't think Crassus was in a position to command rationally. There's claims that the Romans had to basically commit mutiny to make the decision to crawl back to Carrhae. Crassus' wasn't the worst commander but he was ill suited to handle this novel encounter. As seen with Antony, the benefit of hindsight can help a lot since he was actually pretty successful initially and only spluttered when his baggage train and siege machines got wrecked. After all Ventidius, who paved the way for Antony to make his conquest plans, was successful against the Parthians. Caesar's greatest ability in his life was to exploit the hell out of opportunities, he lost a lot of battles but also won a lot by the process of learning from experience.
Er, Octavian didn't exactly capture Lepidus. You kind of skipped over the entire war in Sicily against Sextus Pompey. Lepidus tries to get Octavian to let him have Corsica, Sicily and Sardinia. So Octavian gets Lepidus' troops to defect to him and retires him with extreme prejudice, but leaves him as Pontifex Maximus and makes it comfortable for him.
Caesar biggest problem was Cleopatra who was sleeping with Anthony. She is the one who convinced Caesar to go to the Senate without his guards. She told him a real man didn't need guards and he fell for it.
In your other videos I've enjoyed your disdain of Cicero. Everybody else I've read or seen or heard has a ton of respect for Cicero, but I think your views are compelling on this. So I have a question for you: what about Marc Anthony? Isn't he also a total jackass, maybe comparable to Scipio? I'm curious how you see him
Antony at least had the redeeming factor of being a good military mind, and could be useful in that capacity. Scipio was an active detriment to his cause in every possible way.
@@davidhoran7116 lol about Scipio. But I'm not sure at all Marc Anthony was good militarily. His campaigns in Persia are disastrous. He lost to Octavian, etc. At least since he based himself in Egypt, everything he did was embarrass himself. That's what I've heard anyway
@@federook78 he was a good general, no other Roman up untill the time of Plutarch could defeat Persia, in war you win or lose, so losing to Octavian those not make him a bad general, Pompey the great was also a good general who later lost to ceaser
Would had been very intresting to see how Ceasar planned to deal with the Parthian horse archers and vast deserts. I think it would have been even a bigger challange than his battles against gaul, germania or optimate legions. Alexander the great managed but Persia was more infantry based at the time if understood it correctly.
I'm thinking with all the civil wars from Marius and Sulla through to the 2nd triumvirate it was a curse to be born a roman male. A loooot of men were killed.
38:02 what's so complex about warlordism? Because that's all that Augustus was, the alpha warlord, the one who killed all the others, the bloodiest, nastiest of them all. A simple, tyrannical warlord, albeit a cunning, deceitful and hypocritical one. Thus the Romans were left at the mercy of the disturbing lottery that was the unknown personality of their next tyrant. They had luck (mostly) for 200 years and then it all collapsed, because Augustus had levelled all institutions, laws and liberties. All that remained was the military, thus the 100 years of barracks emperors.
I think that Crassus Jr. deserved a mention: Crassus Sr. was certainly an ass and a mediocre commander (to be generous) but his son was praised by Caesar and the Parthians. And I'd dare say that one thing is to conquer those pesky Gauls and another much more complicated thing seems to me to conquer the Basques, i.e. the Aquitani, something that only Crassus Jr. did (although not completely, the final war was the Cantabrian War by an Octavian that grew so nauseated of the brutality of it that refused to be given a triumph).
Georgie Pineda for Secretary of State! Lol, no seriously...best foreign policy advice for any power west of the Levant. Don't start none with Parthia and there won't be none with Parthia.
the pronunciation IS NOT "see-sar" it's "kai-sar" JOO-LI-US KAI-SAR = Julius Caesar the Romans HAVE NO soft "c" sound, they used "s" for that CICERO is not "sis-sir-oh", it's "kik-ker-oh"
If I were doing a historiography I would have to point out that you are clearly very biased in regard to Caesar. We all have a lens and it helps to understand what your lens is to not let it impact your conclusions too much.
The Anglosphere (with the exception of the US Founding Fathers, who loved Cato and hated Caesar) has been riding Caesar's junk ever since Shakespeare's play. He's due for a slight haircut.
@@shock_n_Aweful Thersites seemed plenty objective to me? He commended Caesar on the Clementia poliicy and all the housekeeping reforms (including the improved calendar, that was good enough to last thousands of years!). Your boy Julio literally committed genocide with one hand and turned a republic into a monarchy with the other. Meanwhile, the Optimates were equal parts jealous and dumb. And all of them, on both sides, were myopic; all of them loved them some slavery, mass murder, rapine and theft. None of these chaps are "good people" by any objective modern standard. With that in mind, I think Thersites did a great job. But your mileage may vary (and cleary has varied).
30:45 - “Cesar committed two major mistakes when dealing with his defeated rivals […]. The second misunderstanding is that he assumed that they were much more intelligent and perceptive than they actually were.” _Love it._
“If he took an IQ test, it would come back negative.” Lmao
Caesar's behaviour before his assassination was so careless and reckless that it has been seriously suggested that he was deliberately courting assassination as a political move, a case of suicide by senator.
I just read Barry Strauss’ Death of Caesar, and he makes a compelling case for Caesar being a foreal risk junkie, and his Ides attitude was an extension of that.
Barry articulates it far better!
Pompey said this while operating under Sulla's command. "'Will you not give up reading laws to us men girt with swords?"
This man would go on to become the ""Defender of the Republic"".
I'm now convinced that Mr. Thersites is actually a team of at least 10 lads with similar voices.
I'm impressed as well. And I can't imagine someone putting this together on their own.
Actually the incompetence of Metellus Scipio contributed to making history more than Caesar's genius and Pompey's skills combined.
He was the true history maker of the time.
The Mitch McConnell or Joe Manchin.
Possibly so, but if it wasn't Scipio, it'd be somebody else... having severely corrupt people lead who weren't necessarily capable but simply held their interests in mind? Seems the typical Rome to me. They didn't really typically have a history of picking qualified men in these kinds of positions... It was all about interests in mind. In fact, they actually seemed to be more and more likely to want to kill you the more capable you were, and this only worsened as Rome progressed on (see: Majorian... Stilicho... near the fall of the Empire). Perhaps it was unfortunate Scipio was especially unwise, but Caesar was a crafty cookie and probably could've handled almost anyone they threw at him, because their talent pool...well... for the most part, wasn't very talented (at least militarily). You don't conquer the amount of territories he did with luck alone of others incompetence for the most part.
Something tells me that this is not a compliment for Metellus 😉
Honestly he wasn't *that* bad. His overall strategy wasn't terrible. Caesar was just at his A game in terms of maneuver and was able to finally force a battle to his terms
Late releases are the fking best! Me and my girlfriend just had a bad breakup and part of the reason is because I’m obsessed with Rome. You’re the best!
Damn really? You have my condolences for the bad break up, but you spending time on things your passionate about is a healthy way to deal. History is great and Roman history in particular is fascinating. Maybe if it is in the cards for your situation take a history class on rome. In my class we just read meditations by Marcus Aurelius one of my fav emperors. His Stoic philosophy might be helpful to you after a breakup i know it would've helped me after mine
@@MrWeezy312 Thanks man. The fact that we broke up I think will be a good thing and opportunity as it was a toxic situation. You’re right, I watch historical documentaries instead of entertaining other women. That should be a good thing lol. She said a lot of horrid things to me on my way out and they still echo in my head but that too shall pass. Thanks again brother.
Girlfriends are temporary, but Roma is Aeterna
@@WaveChronicles0 at the end of the day new knowledge and hard work will make you better every day. People can be temporary but if you learn to master the process of day to day work and stress you’ll be able to accomplish anything, wish you all the best.
@@machiavelllli I heed this advice and thank you sir
Marcus Agrippa was the real hero. Octavian would be nothing without Agrippa.
True. It is to Octavian's credit that he cultivated a loyal friendship and utilized the talents of such a person. The best leaders in history are known because of the achievements of the people they trusted.
@@azzgunther They were childhood friends, that's not something in your control. When he handed over the armies to him, he wasn't tested yet, it was nearly pure luck that he ended up being so talented, especially since Octavian had no idea interest in military, so he would have had no idea what makes a great general. Not to mention that Agrippa never tried to betray him, even though he had plenty oppurtunities to do so, and most generals in his position would. Octavian lucked out so incredibly much on one of his childhood friends ending up the one of the most competent AND most loyal general in roman history.
And on the topic of giving Octavian credit for being such a talented HR manager that he surrounded himself only with the best people... He let his relatives manipulate succession behind his back (including murders), he let the Claudians into the ruling family, who were there strictly for personal benefits, and overall he failed in many instances related to identifying people's true intentions. He let the "republic" in such state that it could never recover and would be guaranteed to turn into an empire, while then handing the empire to people completly unfit to be in such position. While you can claim that it wasn't his fault that his successors weren't as good as him, it doesn't take a genius to figure out your system will break once it happens.
Between purging the political class, not dealing with the germanic tribes, establishing praetorian guard, making his office hereditary, failing to secure proper succession and making sure republican tradition was dead for good, he set up Rome for an inevitable failiure. It's tiring only hearing praise for him, without anybody ever taking a proper look at what his actions ACTUALLY did, to the point he is consistently considered as the undisputed top emperor and the best thing that has ever happened to Rome.
@@bumbuyman All well worth considering. The gist of my point is that we too often overrate the individual as some sort of conduit through with perfection flows into our universe and, in so doing, we tend to not properly appreciate that the truly notable men were great delegators. They had the ability to identify and surround themselves with people who, whatever their strengths or weaknesses, thrive when working under their boss.
How far does Genghis Khan go without Subutai? Caesar found people to pick up Mark Anthony's slack in matters of administration and enjoyed his tactical abilities when backed into a corner (he credits Anthony with saving the day at the Battle of Alesia). His campaign in Gaul benefited from Labienus being adept at holding regions. Imagine how quickly the Gallic Wars would have been lost if he had to deal with the same clowns that Julian had to deal with centuries later. And though Lebienus defected during the Civil War, he didn't stab Caesar to death as so many Roman emperors' cadres killed their leaders in the coming centuries.
I default to that perspective on leaders. It's as strange to say that Octavian is nothing without Agrippa as it is to say that Octavian was a perfect individual who did it all on his own. The reality is that he lived a long life of getting more things right than wrong, nurtured good luck when he got it, and found people with whom he could create major change in the world.
@@azzgunther We see plenty critiques of Ceasar and GengisKhan, but for some reason Augustus is nearly immune to it, I would like to see that change. But he built a cult of personality, that somehow not only persisted for the entire duration of the Roman Empire, but still exists today, while most other great leaders and empire founders are looked at much more critically.
@@bumbuyman On that topic: do you have any names that you'd suggest that I look further into? The capacity of the individual is a topic that fascinates me and so people like Caesar, Khan, Phillip II (and his son, sort of), Cyrus the Great, etc. have been fun historical examples to study. I'm looking for more obscure names of people whose stories I should know.
Holy shit this channel needs more subscribers
My favorite part of your late republic series is how with every video you put forth with more confidence that Metellus Scipio was the head of the bonii, while also insulting him more and more. Big fan.
His name is rarely mentioned in popular histories like Tom Holland's.
He's actually getting justice from Thersites.
25:30 But-You are enemies-
*HE WAS A CONSUL OF ROME! A Consul of Rome.*
Hi, I've been a huge fan of this channel for a long, long time, but I don't think many would agree with the characterization of Caesar that he really just wanted to "get his war face on" and was not so interested in politics or the economy, or law, etc. He passed endless reforms, engaged in many building projects, roads, draining marshes, modified ordinances within Rome, reorganized Italy(or began the process, such as adding Cisalpine Gaul into the districts of Italy, and extending citizenship to its inhabitants), added new senators, elevated the non-Roman Italian aristocracy, built up Rome's port, and so on. He passed morality laws, and designated himself as the censor of morality. In fact, a great bulk of Augustus's reforms and actions were begun by Caesar between 49-44bc. The guy clearly had ideas.
He really should read some Michael Parenti
Caesar actually had 3 provinces, Transalpine Gaul, Cisalpine Gaul, and Illyricum. Illyricum gave him one more legion at the outset of the Gallic War. He even campaigned in Illyricum one of the years as there was a Dalmatian incursion and he needed to keep the integrity of those borders.
My daughter has lived in Switzerland since 2017. One day about I realized I didn't have her full address, so she texted it to me. The last part was Lusanne,Vaud, HC. I'm like HC what the hells that. She told me that stood for Helvetic Confederation. I laughed my but off because I had told myself once I had the spare time I was gonna read Mommsens History of the Roman Republic and boy is that Great. But my boy JC made his bones battling the Helvetii and here's my daughter living right in the neighborhood.
Oh by the way Be nice to your brother Getas not so bad and if you're ever in the Grampian s again ,for God's sake make sure the scouts and sentries are on their toes. And you might want to always lock the bathroom door.
Funnily enough I’ve been reading The Landmark book on Caesars many wars and I must say the translation makes it very easy to follow his exploits, essentially reading like an action novel in many aspects. Not only that but it makes you realise how shrewd a politician Caesar was with his use of language in order to justify his actions (as most of what he wrote was being sent directly to the Senate in Rome). A great read for anyone who can get their hands on it!
For now I'm into Appian and Polybius. There is a lot more great stuff to read from these Greeks and Romans than I have the time or eye-sight. That's what like about Thersites. They can do the reading so I don't have to.
I have bought every Landmark book series out there after reading the Caesar landmark one. The amount of information in it is incredible, the elaborations, the maps, the details, the notes, the other little things it does to stand out. Really helps. And you can also choose to ignore notes at the bottom if you find that kind of thing annoying. For a fair bit of criticism about it though, I do find the notes sometimes to be almost excessive and repetitive, sometimes it just seems like "filler" to even the page notes out. That's my one and only complaint about the series really. If you didn't know, there is a new Landmark being released next month, in December, the Anabasis. I'm excited to grab a copy of that one.
Its a shame you didn't talk about the assassination of Cicero but I guess in the grand scheme of history, he didn't do anything that important. His consulship was bland. He didn't lead any armies. He was just really good at getting the Senate to do what he wanted.
Every prominent man of the period died a violent death (except possibly Milo).
Cicero was the last to go, an old man by Roman standards.
Cicero murdered thousands of people during his consulship, and was forced into temporary exile as a consequence. He was a good lawyer and speaker, and probably had some idea that the Republic was foundering, but other than sentimental appeal had no tools to fix it. Those who cannot eat, and retired soldiers who want land, cannot be placated by sentiment for old legal forms.
Milo died violently too.
He died fighting for the Senatorial cause at Compsa in 48.
What are you saying? Cicero pater patriae est! He saved the State! Down with Catiline!
Caesar's calendar needed correcting nearly right away by his successor Augustus. The original Julian calendar had a leap year every three years instead of every 4 years.
Many men will tell tales about how forgiveness can backfire. Ceasar would say, but... let his wounds speak for him.
2 videos on Rome within a day! You sir just made my day
Would really love to see a Metellus sitcom.
Metellus is an amazingly cool name.
This is one of the best and exciting scripts you’ve ever written. Packed fully of large concepts and kept moving perfectly with narrative.
Love this channel!
Happy Friday night for me -thank you for your great work, Professor! 👍
I had some professors in Uni make the argument the republic fell with SULLA.
This was one hell of a video!! and I am very excited about your Augustus video, I always wondered how did he single handily created a new order that ended the civil war and no one rebelled under him, and how later his successors was NOT able to recreate this success with all the later civil wars happening again.
Pope Gregory wasn't in the middle ages, I think you said this in other videos too, he was a Pope of the late 1500s and his calendar reform was in 1582.
It was Pope Gregory XIII tbc who did the Gregorian Calendar that we use today, not Pope Saint Gregory I "The Great"
This was a great lecture. In University there was nothing like this. I would whole heartily do a course on this for no problem. Thank you so much
Didn’t Mark Antony challenge Octavian to hand to hand combat as his last stand?
Your lectures are absolutely amazing. Keep up the great work. Love this era of history
15:15 Julius Caesar's funeral pyre was "almost" The Temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus... That's like burning down the Whitehouse for Abraham Lincoln... Or burning down the Second Temple in honor of King Solomon...Shit doesn't make any sense... But MAN, that's hardcore
Who would be the first recognized Emperor? Because even Agustus kept up the "first among equals" notion. Was Tiberius the first legally recognized Emperor by the Senate? Roman videos are great as always!
Tiberius pretty much left things as they had been during the last years of Augustus, when he had been effectively co - emperor.
Claudius was the first person to try something new.
Or you could say Diocletian. The end of the principate and the dawn of the dominate
this is really good stuff, exactly what i need. thanks thersites, keep it up! i might have to consider donating with patreon for the first time ever
It's a shame that channels like yours containing educational historical content do not have many views.
19:49 "If he took an IQ test, the results would come back negative!" LMAO gotdamn, Thersites, I love your videos but I didn't know you had jokes like that :)
You distil it and tell it so well.
You're spoiling us today!
Excellent
The meeting at Luca happened to renew the triumvirate not to form it, that meeting happened to extend Caesar’s command but in this video you make it sound like the Luca conference is where they first decided to ally
Forgotten is Crassius was the hero of the battle of colline gate. His reputation was sabotaged by Cassius.
Perfect timing. 👌
It was interesting. Thank you.
While i agree that Senate picking fight against Caesar is a big mistake but this is a first time that Metellus is much to be blamed.
I only knew Cato are the one who sabotaged for Caesar compromised to hold only 1 legion in exchange for Caesar reelection and Bibilus are the one who is incompetent.
Edit : this is also the only one that i see that Caesar dictator just kinda skimmed over, there are no mention of Caesar seems to desire kingship(to be fair this could be senatorial propaganda considering Caesar should be too politically savvy for that) and of course that one of the Caesar assasin is Brutus is also not mentioned.
@Thersites the historian
I would love to have a conversation with you about this specific timeline of Caesar’s first election as consul to his death, focusing on the career and relationships of both Caesar and Labienus.. myself and a few other friends of mine have been working on a Script for a TV show that would cover this timeframe and having done lots of research on this topic I know I still have a lot more to learn before we can continue to tackle our script.
For clarification we are college graduates with history, political science, and film degrees between us. Not trying to waste your time…
(The pilot episode ends with with Caesar crossing the pomerium to stand for election)
@TyniBi I would be more than willing to discuss it with you one on one my friend
@TyniBi yeah this would be an ensemble style show with a focus on historical realism that follows the major players of the late republic with a focus on Caesar and labenius but does follow Crassus all the way to him and his sons death.
Follows the 8th,9th,10th and 13 legions, Pompeii and his role in Roman politics. Senate elections and the division between reformers and “conservatives”. The gaulic wars, the civil war, the Alexandria campaign, the North Africa campaign.
Watch Julius Caesar take a political system by storm and then destroy the means to repair it.
Little known fact, during the late Republic, the only people who believed in Astrology were Scipios.
did Caesar had any actual battle plan for Parthia? I mean, if he had marched in there Roman style, he also would have been kited and shot to pieces.
thanks
There's a reason Caesar is known as one of the great generals of all time. If you think he was going to pull a Crassus or Antony, you are out of your mind
@@herbthompson8937 exactly that's why I asked
@@istvansipos9940 so you admit you're talking out of your ass?
@@herbthompson8937 talking? What's wrong with you? I aksed a question under a video. My ass is irrelevant here :- )
Do you know what Caesar's actual battle plans were for Parthia?
Crassus' handling of the situation wasn't that stupid really in that he imagined the Parthians would run out of arrows. Surena, the Parthian general that doesn't get enough credit, was only expecting to stall the Romans since his army was stuck fighting in Armenia. So he had a mobile cavalry force and gave them an entire baggage train with nothing but arrows just to hold them off.
Crassus' problem is that they were led by competent people. They shot at the Romans, then charged whenever he got into a shield wall since they wouldn't effectively fight in melee in such a formation. After Crassus' noticed they kept resupplying, he tried to force a breakout but the breakout force ended up getting ambushed since the Parthians hid some of their numbers and couldn't be reinforced fast enough. After the breakout force that included Crassus' son was slaughtered, the Romans eventually lost their nerve and I don't think Crassus was in a position to command rationally. There's claims that the Romans had to basically commit mutiny to make the decision to crawl back to Carrhae.
Crassus' wasn't the worst commander but he was ill suited to handle this novel encounter. As seen with Antony, the benefit of hindsight can help a lot since he was actually pretty successful initially and only spluttered when his baggage train and siege machines got wrecked. After all Ventidius, who paved the way for Antony to make his conquest plans, was successful against the Parthians.
Caesar's greatest ability in his life was to exploit the hell out of opportunities, he lost a lot of battles but also won a lot by the process of learning from experience.
Er, Octavian didn't exactly capture Lepidus. You kind of skipped over the entire war in Sicily against Sextus Pompey. Lepidus tries to get Octavian to let him have Corsica, Sicily and Sardinia. So Octavian gets Lepidus' troops to defect to him and retires him with extreme prejudice, but leaves him as Pontifex Maximus and makes it comfortable for him.
Caesar biggest problem was Cleopatra who was sleeping with Anthony. She is the one who convinced Caesar to go to the Senate without his guards. She told him a real man didn't need guards and he fell for it.
In your other videos I've enjoyed your disdain of Cicero. Everybody else I've read or seen or heard has a ton of respect for Cicero, but I think your views are compelling on this.
So I have a question for you: what about Marc Anthony? Isn't he also a total jackass, maybe comparable to Scipio? I'm curious how you see him
Antony at least had the redeeming factor of being a good military mind, and could be useful in that capacity. Scipio was an active detriment to his cause in every possible way.
@@davidhoran7116 lol about Scipio. But I'm not sure at all Marc Anthony was good militarily. His campaigns in Persia are disastrous. He lost to Octavian, etc. At least since he based himself in Egypt, everything he did was embarrass himself. That's what I've heard anyway
@@federook78 he was a good general, no other Roman up untill the time of Plutarch could defeat Persia, in war you win or lose, so losing to Octavian those not make him a bad general, Pompey the great was also a good general who later lost to ceaser
Would had been very intresting to see how Ceasar planned to deal with the Parthian horse archers and vast deserts. I think it would have been even a bigger challange than his battles against gaul, germania or optimate legions. Alexander the great managed but Persia was more infantry based at the time if understood it correctly.
Streets of Rage is a classic!
Ave, true to Caesar!
I'm thinking with all the civil wars from Marius and Sulla through to the 2nd triumvirate it was a curse to be born a roman male. A loooot of men were killed.
Nice video
38:02 what's so complex about warlordism? Because that's all that Augustus was, the alpha warlord, the one who killed all the others, the bloodiest, nastiest of them all. A simple, tyrannical warlord, albeit a cunning, deceitful and hypocritical one.
Thus the Romans were left at the mercy of the disturbing lottery that was the unknown personality of their next tyrant. They had luck (mostly) for 200 years and then it all collapsed, because Augustus had levelled all institutions, laws and liberties. All that remained was the military, thus the 100 years of barracks emperors.
And the rise of Elegabalus.
Thanks to pronouncing Sulla's name correctly.
Nice Streets of Rage pic!
Y was Octavian picked by Caesar rather than Mark Anthony??
Ave Caesar
How about doing a video about the fall of the American Republic.
I'm going to just throw my hat into the ring here and say Agrippa won the battle of Actium not Octavian lol
You are probably right about that.
Metellus Scipio jad the best lineage? So in other words, he was the most inbred out of all of them. Clearly he’ll make the best leader! /s
Well, that's one way to pronounce 'Optimates' I suppose...
Very cool
What's your opinion on Adrian Goldsworthy?
I think that Crassus Jr. deserved a mention: Crassus Sr. was certainly an ass and a mediocre commander (to be generous) but his son was praised by Caesar and the Parthians. And I'd dare say that one thing is to conquer those pesky Gauls and another much more complicated thing seems to me to conquer the Basques, i.e. the Aquitani, something that only Crassus Jr. did (although not completely, the final war was the Cantabrian War by an Octavian that grew so nauseated of the brutality of it that refused to be given a triumph).
At first when I saw the title I thought we were talking about America
???
@@herbthompson8937 we are basically witnessing the rot set into the American republic.
@@UltraViresAdInfinitum so you didn't read the second half of the title???? The US will be just fine buddy
@@herbthompson8937 IDK dude... you just need to take a quick look at our k - 12 public education system these days...
@@UltraViresAdInfinitum thankfully we have school choice on top of reforming our public education system.
He was a consul of ROME!
He was a consul of rome!
Don't mess with Parthia.
Georgie Pineda for Secretary of State! Lol, no seriously...best foreign policy advice for any power west of the Levant. Don't start none with Parthia and there won't be none with Parthia.
I like them on the dumb side, it makes me feel smarter
the pronunciation IS NOT "see-sar" it's "kai-sar"
JOO-LI-US KAI-SAR = Julius Caesar
the Romans HAVE NO soft "c" sound, they used "s" for that
CICERO is not "sis-sir-oh", it's "kik-ker-oh"
you wouldn't call CRASSUS, "srass-us"
Based take that will make romaboos seethe, ancient germans>>>>ancient romans. We won. We always win even when we lose we win in the end.
I still believe britain is fictional
Vae victis!
Scipio sounds like Biden
If I were doing a historiography I would have to point out that you are clearly very biased in regard to Caesar. We all have a lens and it helps to understand what your lens is to not let it impact your conclusions too much.
He's way too kind.
Caesar's behaviour in the last year of his life was insanely extravagant.
Premature senility possibly.
The Anglosphere (with the exception of the US Founding Fathers, who loved Cato and hated Caesar) has been riding Caesar's junk ever since Shakespeare's play. He's due for a slight haircut.
@@katarishigusimokirochepona6611 modern historians are generally more self aware their lens and try harder to be objective
@@shock_n_Aweful Thersites seemed plenty objective to me? He commended Caesar on the Clementia poliicy and all the housekeeping reforms (including the improved calendar, that was good enough to last thousands of years!).
Your boy Julio literally committed genocide with one hand and turned a republic into a monarchy with the other. Meanwhile, the Optimates were equal parts jealous and dumb. And all of them, on both sides, were myopic; all of them loved them some slavery, mass murder, rapine and theft. None of these chaps are "good people" by any objective modern standard.
With that in mind, I think Thersites did a great job. But your mileage may vary (and cleary has varied).
@@katarishigusimokirochepona6611 you are completely misunderstanding. I am saying the exact opposite of what you think I am.