i believe pyro does have a large support role, with things like defending teamates from enemy projectiles spychecking and just being great in terms of overall defense
@@shaddysehly5040Pyro is a Jack-of-all-Trades He's good at maintaining pressure, picking off medics and other enemies, has an entire subclass committed to supporting your team as much as you can, and can also deny entire choke points, Uber pushes and other annoyances with his flamethrower Just the fact at how easily and smoothly can Pyro go from offensive to defensive and then become pure support is what truly makes him OP Good Pyro adds a point to quite literally everything
Yet sniper is the highest skill demanding class at aiming. So no skill ? annoying, too much skill ? overpowered (and also touch grass because that require unrealistic 8000 hours to be godly at him that even the original developer of TF2 wouldn't though sniper be that broken with that many hours). But i think you need to consider that now matter how high some people spend their hours in TF2, there is always a *counterplay* except >8000 hours sniper, especially in maps that have huge sightline (ctf_turbine, plr_hightower, pl_wutville, etc.) because sniper is pretty much need multiple people to counter him or get close to counter him which is more harder than it sound if you're in Casual because most people play alone / solo queue and sniper can just headshot / his teammates can kill you before you get close to the sniper, especially in these maps that everyone liked for some reason that there's 24/7 hours community servers host on them.
@@michaeljonathan9715 Highest skill? Spy, Demo, Soldier, etc all exist lol His greatest hurdle is "knowing how to aim" which applies to literally every class, even pyro to an extent.
@@keaton5101 It was still the case even before the bot crisis. No other class demands the amount of "respect" that a good Sniper does in maps. Entire maps can be ruined by one singular sniper. The closest comparison that comes to mind is Engineer. But even good engineers still have counters. Sniper's counters are...countered by Item Unlocks or the extreme damage output. Even if half of the roster jumps an unaware sniper, turning and getting a quickscope headshot for 150 damage drops half the roster in one shot, and is a two shot on the rest of the ENTIRE CAST without considering overheal from a medic (temporary health that decays anyways). Entire maps are designed around this one Class, and maps that fail to do so suffer when one sniper abuses the lack of design around him. No other class gives you a feeling of helplessness like Sniper does, and scales exponentially with time and skill put into the class. Half the roster isn't able to play the game normally once a good sniper takes root, Especially Medic, Heavy and Demoman. Heavy mostly, though.
shooting the floor and doing more damage than a demoman's direct hits for some fucking reason* yeah soldier has a super high skill CEILING, but his skill floor is in the fucking abyss
I was also going to bring up the heavy, sure you need to aim but not nearly as much as other classes do And the Engineer.. his sentry does the work for him. Although to be fair his skill ceiling is much higher
@@JesseMC_ytyou have never played TF2 in your life, wtf are you talking about, heavy doesn't need to aim? Engi relies on his sentry to do his work for him? Play one hour of engineer and you'll see that turtling is not an effective way if playing engineer
Valve's new game Deadlock implemented fire in such a good way through the character Infernus imo. To set someone on fire you must heat them up enough for them to get the DoT debuff, after an enemy is on fire it becomes a wild chase to try to keep them burning for as long as possible as your bullets as well as your abilities reset the timer. Couple that with items that increase your damage the longer it ticks and it becomes incredibly fun and rewarding. The opponent has plenty of counterplay as heating up does have a falloff distance (meaning that you can't burn people who are super far away) and they can break line of sight with good movement to not get the DoT reset.
Forgot to say that another counterplay is outhealing the DoT through lifesteal although that has counterplay from Infernus' part as well as he can buy items that reduce healing so it's a constant game of tug and war
Ngl, when I started playing TF2 my go to class was the Pyro, I'd sit near the cart and wait for people to start pushing it, then I'd pop out of cover and just burn them to death, it was pretty effective back then. Now I like using my shotgun as my main weapon and the flamethrower as a secondary weapon, cause it's really freaking fun to just shoot people as Pyro. Btw an entire house burned to ashes on my street earlier this week and the lady who lived there got 3rd degree burns in 80% of her body, she also had to jump out her window to escape the fire and fell for about 4 meters before hitting the ground. Amazingly she got up and walked down the street, I saw her walking and it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen in my entire life. And then I watched all night as the fire turned her house and all the stuff she had to ashes, we called the firefighters as soon as we saw the fire but they took almost an hour to arrive, she's currently recovering and I hope she survives. People called an ambulance too at the time but a neighbor drove her to a nearby hospitcal cause the ambulance took even longer than the firetruck. I didn't know this, but fire is pretty hecking loud, it was around one AM when I first heard the sound of fire, I was playing the original RE2 on my phone using a single earphone, and heard this weird noise I thought was rain at first, then I heard the screams. I looked out my window to see this massive fire burning like hell. All this was caused by a gas leak. Saddest part is, the lady managed to escape the house unburnt at first, but returned to retrieve some money she was keeping at home because she didn't know how to use bank apps and some people in her family were apparently taking advantage of her and stealing her money... Edit: She passed away unfortunately...
@bebrasmachnayq5691 It's real unfortunately, I will never forget the sight of this poor lady walking down the street with burns all over her body, nobody knew what to do, her son wanted to hug her but that would hurt her even more. I didn't know her personally but had met her plenty of times before, seeing another human being like that and being powerless to do anything is sad and revolting bro, I really hope she wakes up and makes a full recovery.
@@rickydo6572 I hope she is okay and I can sympathize with the part her own family took advantage of her. Because my own grandma is like that. Only my mom and 1 of my aunts still give a shit how she lives while the rest see her as a safe that can be persuaded to take money. Fire is dangerous. But so is people's greed and incompetence 😢
It’s actually criminal how high-quality your videos are, dude. Always a treat to see you pop up in my feed, and fun to have found this diamond yet to get the recognition it deserves. Hyped to stay tuned to your future projects! o7
I think one of the more fun uses of fire is its interactions with armored enemies. Some games simply treat fire as a damage over time, with little effect on tanky foes, and the way to use fire against tanky foes is either combos or using it in an overwhelming capacity to boost the damage. However, Helldivers 2, at least recently, moved its flamethrowers into a role balanced around the short range, by letting all flamethrowers deal damage regardless of armor. One of the lesser included aspects of fire is the fact that it can deal damage even through metal, heating up the squishier stuff under the protection, and it's nice to use flamethrowers in a way that, while challenging and dangerous, is still effective.
That is actually a pretty good way to make different kinds of weapons have their own niche. These days you'll get 30 different assault rifles, but back then each weapon was unique with it's own use case. Having fire based stuff ignore armor is a pretty neat nod back to that time.
I'm glad to see THE FINALS mentioned in this video! Its become my favourite fps purely because how fun it is and how many ideas are mashed together. otherwise, great video!
Solid direction, good thesis, consistently solid editing, nicely done. If I have two pieces of criticism though, one would be that you probably shouldn't have talked about DRG this time. Everything you said about it made sense, the problem is that you already clarified that fire is rarely a problem in PvE games and the issue being discussed is PvP. I understand if other games like Overwatch aren't different enough to warrant a mention or if you specifically wanted an example of fire done better than in TF2, but the only way DRG could've been relevant is if your point was that its flamethrower could be better than Pyro's specifically if brought into a PvP setting. And I'm pretty sure that's not what you were saying there. The other is that while your thesis largely makes sense, you failed to specify that keeping a distance isn't always possible. I don't know shit about The Finals outside of what you just told me, but the majority of classes in TF2 perform their best at fairly close range. This often forces them to either go in and try to just out-DPS the Pyro which is surprisingly difficult for multiple reasons, or limit their own abilities by keeping a distance. Some classes don't even have the latter as an option thanks to airblast. Despite those, I enjoyed this video overall and everything you said did make sense. Nice job!
Video game fire is the most satisfying mechanic ever implemented, and my Helldivers 2 kit is set up entirely with this in mind. When I get in close, the world is set ablaze.
My idea of balancing crowd control (for specifically movement shooters) is to make the person using it have less health then everyone else and have the damage ramp up over time on enemys. The idea of this is that the cc user has to stay in the fight risking their life to earn elims through movement as their damage ramps upward. The enemy now instead of being able to avoid this damage, has to catch the cc user before they eventually burn up, requiring fast reaction and good aim to catch out the pyromancer, while requiring good smoves from the cc user as to not get instantly one shot.
14:40 damn i just went through a really bad breakup yesterday and that's the last thing i thought i was gonna get out of a video essay about fire in video games. Thank you for that i really needed to hear it.
i have a few things to say about your pyro rant 1: having a low skill ceiling doesnt mean its bad, iit just means its easier for new players 2: i wouldn't say airblast is annoying, its a great support tool and teaches players to be cautious about where they aim their rockets and that maybe relying only on the rocket launcher is a bad idea 3: pyro's main weakness is ranged so just staying far enough away can be enough
@@TheMadJagger still, im saying having a low skl ceiling isnt necessarily a bad thing if you can balance it right, and unlockables dont count since we are mostly talking about stock pyro here
@@shaddysehly5040What you mean is low skill floor, low skill ceiling means that class doesn’t have much to learn Pyro is an example of a low skill floor, but decently high skill ceiling, while say Spy has a high skill floor and ceiling
@@jblazerndrowzy ahh i see kinda forgot to separate the two, pyro is indeed easy to learn but a bit hard to master all the mechanics like detonator jumping proper airblast timing etc
Great video! But I think you should have mentioned how Pyro's flames behaved before Jungle Inferno and how oppressive and inconsistent it was them and how it's been changed after the update to reward better aim and afterburn duration related to how long a player stays in the fire.
I know its a little different, but i always thought scorch and the firestars in titanfall 2 were an interesting way of handling fire. Sure, they're not the standard liquid fuel flamethrowers or molotovs that most people envision (sticking to players and dealing guaranteed damage over time) the thermite only effects the area where it hits, if you leave that area you dont keep taking damage. The damage over time is also really only there to balance out Scorch's massive damage potential and empower him to punish bad positioning. Its balanced by the fact that you need to be skilled to use it against players with a good understanding of chokepoints and movement, but is so incredibly rewarding by being so massively damaging. Firestars dont just tick you over time (unless you're in a titan) they either block off a choke or instantly kill you.
Honorable mention for Vermintide's Sienna, another PvE implementation of fire that explores non-DoT aspects of fire such as its explosive potential for spike damage and the ability to exploit and balance your overheat gauge to increase your combat power. Unlimited ammunition is a major advantage, but it requires skill to use well.
Great video, immediately obviously really well polished. I'd almost say seemingly the majority of the effort was put into the polish over the scripting & delivery, but it still makes for a great overall video.
The problem with fire that creates the "What was I supposed to do?" effect is that if you get a lethal amount of shot the Game tells you you are dead. If you get a leather amount of fire the game lets you run around for a few seconds watching your HP go down to the inevitable death.
14:21 saying REAPER isn’t very good in the grand scheme of things when he was one of the meta DPS in the last couple professional Overwatch tournaments and basically in every team comp is INSANE
Note: DRG driller's flamethrower is often built to rely on so-called sticky flames, sticking to terrain itself, harming all enemies walking through the burning area as opposed to merely killing the few enemies hit directly It allows a small ring of flames on circumference of the tunnel to become a trap that kills any small enemies walking through, no matter how numerous they are It also doesn't need to be constantly maintained, just replenished from time to time The flaw is that fire kills a burning enemy with a delay, so you have to pre-plan where enemies will go to set up sticky flames some distance away from yourself, or near-dead living torches will still be able to hurt you; fire isn't as good for rapid response as instant-damage explosions or direct hits
The finals flamethrower is just DRG but the things you left out, driller can also ignite gas, it perhaps isn't that common but an enemy that spawns gas can always spawn, and removing it or using it as an explosion to kill enemies is a handy mechanic
In the WW1 game Verdun there is a flamethrower too, and it is ver well balanced. The Wechselapparat cant be reloaded, if its empty yopu need to find an ammobox, and these are rare. So to resupply you need a friend who play an according soldier to be wildly effective. When you fire it there is a delay bofre flames come out, making it a weapon to lock down enemies or push a planned, slow push against well entrenched enemies, but you cant reallly be reactionary with it, the weapon is just too slow. It is also given to one soldier of a specific type of squad, which when selected dissatvantages all three other players in that squad with worse gear if I remember correctly.
I really enjoy how fire works in Darkest Dungeon 2. Instead of just dealing damage over time, it inflicts a stacking "burned" condition which makes targets more susceptible to fire attacks for the next few turns. This lets a creative player snowball damage by combining fire attacks.
i got your solution right here: afterburn that's cosmetic and deals no damage on its own, but allows for combos with projectile weapons like the tf2 flare gun. that's it.
be careful of fire before it breathes beware of its fury before the hot breeze control it, and the entire world is at your hands ignore it, and it will take many with please
No game needs it. Yet, practically every pvp game has a comp scene. Why? Because it's fun to win. It's fun to complete the objective. It's satisfying. It's fun to feel your skill being rewarded and it is fun to play against people on the same level.
I think q good way to balance fire is adding the potential for self-damage. Real military flamethrowers spewed flaming liquid that would splash off walls and stick to things, so if a Flamethrower Operator isn't careful they can get caught in the backsplash and burn themself alive.
5:19 Umm spy medic engei these classes still may need aim skills, but they can play fine without them (pyro has the flare gun with is arguably the most impotent out of all of these)
i think Zarya is a great iteration of the “flamethrower” archetype. now it’s not exactly a flamethrower but it more or less acts the same. zarya is a tank character which means she’s big and slow. she’s got these bubbles that can be used on herself or on her teammates to protect them from damage but not only does it block damage but the more damage the bubble takes the more damage zarya will do. zarya with no charge for her beam deals pretty low damage but once she reaches max charge she deals a crap ton of damage. she’s an incredibly well designed tank character and fits the flamethrower archetype very well.
She uses energy cannon or something, but I agree, if she is still like in OW1 then she fits well that archetype with additional twist of working for the damage
As a pyro main I would like to argue that pyro doesn’t have the lowest skill ceiling because that would be sniper . Also we are very easy to counter due to how the flamethrower works and due to the flamethrower we rush into combat to get as much damage as possible but due to this mindset we become hyper focused on one person which makes us completely vulnerable from being attacked from behind or on the sides trust me I know because that’s what happens with me and all the other pyros. I also use the degreaser as my primary weapon and the degreaser has reduced after burn making it harder for me to kill my enemies with just fire so I often have to switch to my shotgun to finish my opponent off
I think another big thing with the Heavy in the finals is that it is the slowest class in the game. If you're playing as a Medium or especially a Light, just booking it to a more advantageous position as soon as you see the flames and trying to take out the flamethrower heavy from a safe distance is a valid option. It also doesn't affect your movement and aim, and its single target DPS is pretty low, so if you can keep your head on your shoulders and land your shots, you can probably kill the flamethrower Heavy before they can kill you
This is really good video, another example of fire in games I would suggest looking into is rising storm 2:Vietnam which depicts a flame thrower accurately in that the flames stick and don’t go away quickly and you can easily kill yourself with it if you aren’t careful
Great video overall, I'm really impressed by how well structured it is. I'm onligated to metion that pyro sounds better at support than simply burning gas tho... That said I don't play the Finals, maybe it really is a massive problem.
I love how everyone universally shits on the scorch shot when it's just a shittier version of the rocket launcher on a class that's less mobile and less healthy than the soldier
Duck game has to be most well thought out form of fire in pvp game It's lethal to everyone and literally everyone. Even the one who tries to shoot it so most people become very aware of it and try to avoid it
One thing I wanna point out is that Pyro isnt a strictly offensive class and he is the most well-rounded class in TF2. He fits into every role, be it offense, defense or support.
![[TF2] A Mann's Guide to the Backburner](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AfLjXdJfb78/mqdefault.jpg)
NOTE: I know Medic doesn't have to aim to be effective too, I should've specified "offensively effective".
JOIN THE DISCORD: discord.gg/KZ7RPShsuY
i believe pyro does have a large support role, with things like defending teamates from enemy projectiles spychecking and just being great in terms of overall defense
@@shaddysehly5040Pyro is a Jack-of-all-Trades
He's good at maintaining pressure, picking off medics and other enemies, has an entire subclass committed to supporting your team as much as you can, and can also deny entire choke points, Uber pushes and other annoyances with his flamethrower
Just the fact at how easily and smoothly can Pyro go from offensive to defensive and then become pure support is what truly makes him OP
Good Pyro adds a point to quite literally everything
What about huntsman?
The Corssbow is kinda hard I guess
THATS the thing you note? And not making up lies about WoW?
Another way to balance fire in PvP is by overheating the player's computer
dragons fury.png
It’s pretty ironic that at least by my experience grass and fire both are catalysts for bad performance
*insert low quality skeleton dancing in fire*
As a Driller main, I say that my pc is already overheating 😎🔥
Genius tactics
4:47 Pyro is definitely labeled as no skill, but ask any tf2 player and they can tell you sniper is the most hated.
sniper essentially has the exact issue stated of being unintuitive to interact with
yeahhh sniper is hated to the point where people would say the game would be essentially unchanged if Sniper isnt in the game.
Yet sniper is the highest skill demanding class at aiming. So no skill ? annoying, too much skill ? overpowered (and also touch grass because that require unrealistic 8000 hours to be godly at him that even the original developer of TF2 wouldn't though sniper be that broken with that many hours).
But i think you need to consider that now matter how high some people spend their hours in TF2, there is always a *counterplay* except >8000 hours sniper, especially in maps that have huge sightline (ctf_turbine, plr_hightower, pl_wutville, etc.) because sniper is pretty much need multiple people to counter him or get close to counter him which is more harder than it sound if you're in Casual because most people play alone / solo queue and sniper can just headshot / his teammates can kill you before you get close to the sniper, especially in these maps that everyone liked for some reason that there's 24/7 hours community servers host on them.
Well, why be concerned about the guy who can easily kill at short distance when there's the guy who can kill from any distance?
@@michaeljonathan9715 Highest skill? Spy, Demo, Soldier, etc all exist lol His greatest hurdle is "knowing how to aim" which applies to literally every class, even pyro to an extent.
"Among the TF2 community, Pyro is the most widely hated class in the entire game."
No... No he's not... Sniper is...
Times has changed. After so many years when sniper mains hit another thousand hours, peoples finally noticed who the real menace is
this was not the case before the aimbot uprising
@@keaton5101 It was still the case even before the bot crisis. No other class demands the amount of "respect" that a good Sniper does in maps. Entire maps can be ruined by one singular sniper. The closest comparison that comes to mind is Engineer. But even good engineers still have counters. Sniper's counters are...countered by Item Unlocks or the extreme damage output. Even if half of the roster jumps an unaware sniper, turning and getting a quickscope headshot for 150 damage drops half the roster in one shot, and is a two shot on the rest of the ENTIRE CAST without considering overheal from a medic (temporary health that decays anyways). Entire maps are designed around this one Class, and maps that fail to do so suffer when one sniper abuses the lack of design around him. No other class gives you a feeling of helplessness like Sniper does, and scales exponentially with time and skill put into the class. Half the roster isn't able to play the game normally once a good sniper takes root, Especially Medic, Heavy and Demoman. Heavy mostly, though.
5:21 "pyro is the only class that doesn't need to aim to be effective" soldier shooting the floor:
Oh boy.... and here i am using the RL like a damned slug shotgun. (Good thing i main pyro)
shooting the floor and doing more damage than a demoman's direct hits for some fucking reason*
yeah soldier has a super high skill CEILING, but his skill floor is in the fucking abyss
I was also going to bring up the heavy, sure you need to aim but not nearly as much as other classes do
And the Engineer.. his sentry does the work for him. Although to be fair his skill ceiling is much higher
Spy who (mostly) uses mele, Medic Medigun, engi sentry
@@JesseMC_ytyou have never played TF2 in your life, wtf are you talking about, heavy doesn't need to aim? Engi relies on his sentry to do his work for him? Play one hour of engineer and you'll see that turtling is not an effective way if playing engineer
"Out of all nine classes pyro is the only class that doesn't need to aim to be effective."
Soldier class: *intense sweating*
and demo, spy, medic, engie
@@lukecasaus3338Those classes aren’t dependent on aim, and if your using pipes as a demo you do need some damn good aim
demos sticky spamming: 🥴
I’m pretty sure spray-and-pray weapons generally require less braincells to rub than projectile weapons.
As a demo main I sweat 10 inches while aiming my pipes, there's a big difference between 100 and 30 dmg.
Most Players: WHAT I GOT KILLED BY FIRE I HATE FIRE
Me in Battlefield 1: IT'S A FU*KING FLAMETROWER RUN!!!!! **Coolest cinematic fight ever happens**
Fire in BF1 is really great. Also bajonetcharging a Fireguy is some of the best you can do
5:21 "Pyro is the only class that doesn't need to aim to be effective"
(Distant rancho relaxo noises)
Valve's new game Deadlock implemented fire in such a good way through the character Infernus imo.
To set someone on fire you must heat them up enough for them to get the DoT debuff, after an enemy is on fire it becomes a wild chase to try to keep them burning for as long as possible as your bullets as well as your abilities reset the timer. Couple that with items that increase your damage the longer it ticks and it becomes incredibly fun and rewarding. The opponent has plenty of counterplay as heating up does have a falloff distance (meaning that you can't burn people who are super far away) and they can break line of sight with good movement to not get the DoT reset.
Forgot to say that another counterplay is outhealing the DoT through lifesteal although that has counterplay from Infernus' part as well as he can buy items that reduce healing so it's a constant game of tug and war
@@Ly.. Another counterplay is items like debuff reducer and remover
@@Leo.23232 yea there's tons of possibilities
Fire (haha) rate slow will also slow down how fast he can apply burn with his bullets!
Ngl, when I started playing TF2 my go to class was the Pyro, I'd sit near the cart and wait for people to start pushing it, then I'd pop out of cover and just burn them to death, it was pretty effective back then. Now I like using my shotgun as my main weapon and the flamethrower as a secondary weapon, cause it's really freaking fun to just shoot people as Pyro.
Btw an entire house burned to ashes on my street earlier this week and the lady who lived there got 3rd degree burns in 80% of her body, she also had to jump out her window to escape the fire and fell for about 4 meters before hitting the ground.
Amazingly she got up and walked down the street, I saw her walking and it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen in my entire life.
And then I watched all night as the fire turned her house and all the stuff she had to ashes, we called the firefighters as soon as we saw the fire but they took almost an hour to arrive, she's currently recovering and I hope she survives.
People called an ambulance too at the time but a neighbor drove her to a nearby hospitcal cause the ambulance took even longer than the firetruck.
I didn't know this, but fire is pretty hecking loud, it was around one AM when I first heard the sound of fire, I was playing the original RE2 on my phone using a single earphone, and heard this weird noise I thought was rain at first, then I heard the screams.
I looked out my window to see this massive fire burning like hell.
All this was caused by a gas leak. Saddest part is, the lady managed to escape the house unburnt at first, but returned to retrieve some money she was keeping at home because she didn't know how to use bank apps and some people in her family were apparently taking advantage of her and stealing her money...
Edit: She passed away unfortunately...
nice story, enjoyed reading it.
hope she gets better and... why are people like this at the end
Is this real? If yes then sad
If no then cool
@bebrasmachnayq5691
It's real unfortunately, I will never forget the sight of this poor lady walking down the street with burns all over her body, nobody knew what to do, her son wanted to hug her but that would hurt her even more.
I didn't know her personally but had met her plenty of times before, seeing another human being like that and being powerless to do anything is sad and revolting bro, I really hope she wakes up and makes a full recovery.
@@rickydo6572 I hope she is okay and I can sympathize with the part her own family took advantage of her. Because my own grandma is like that. Only my mom and 1 of my aunts still give a shit how she lives while the rest see her as a safe that can be persuaded to take money.
Fire is dangerous. But so is people's greed and incompetence 😢
lol, yeah pyros cool 😎
We're going to Hoxxes IV with this one 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Rock and stone!
WE'RE RICH!
ROCK AND STONE
GIMME AN R! GIMME AN S! GIMME A ROCK AND STONE!
ROCK ME LIKE A STONE!!!
It’s actually criminal how high-quality your videos are, dude. Always a treat to see you pop up in my feed, and fun to have found this diamond yet to get the recognition it deserves. Hyped to stay tuned to your future projects! o7
I think one of the more fun uses of fire is its interactions with armored enemies. Some games simply treat fire as a damage over time, with little effect on tanky foes, and the way to use fire against tanky foes is either combos or using it in an overwhelming capacity to boost the damage.
However, Helldivers 2, at least recently, moved its flamethrowers into a role balanced around the short range, by letting all flamethrowers deal damage regardless of armor. One of the lesser included aspects of fire is the fact that it can deal damage even through metal, heating up the squishier stuff under the protection, and it's nice to use flamethrowers in a way that, while challenging and dangerous, is still effective.
That is actually a pretty good way to make different kinds of weapons have their own niche.
These days you'll get 30 different assault rifles, but back then each weapon was unique with it's own use case.
Having fire based stuff ignore armor is a pretty neat nod back to that time.
And then there's Helldivers 2 where a flamethrower can cook up a delicious flambéed charger in seconds
Hd2 has one of the most fun flamethrowers in any game imo
it's not too great against Chargers anymore, but it's still fun for chaff
Btw the pc port of Halo CE did have a flamethrower for multiplayer
fire video 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🎆🔥👩🚒🚒🧯🧯🚒🔥🔥🚒🧯👩🚒👩🚒
Hidden talent keep it hidden
Booo 🍅🍅🍅
Very subtle story
Was not expecting a life lesson, but I’m happy for it
I'm glad to see THE FINALS mentioned in this video! Its become my favourite fps purely because how fun it is and how many ideas are mashed together. otherwise, great video!
I am Pyro. I became real.
Holy crap
how pertinent
What the hell? Pyro can talk?
You can't fool me spy, I see right through you
Don't you mean mm-mMmMmmmMMMM-mmMMmM-nmmM
Solid direction, good thesis, consistently solid editing, nicely done.
If I have two pieces of criticism though, one would be that you probably shouldn't have talked about DRG this time. Everything you said about it made sense, the problem is that you already clarified that fire is rarely a problem in PvE games and the issue being discussed is PvP. I understand if other games like Overwatch aren't different enough to warrant a mention or if you specifically wanted an example of fire done better than in TF2, but the only way DRG could've been relevant is if your point was that its flamethrower could be better than Pyro's specifically if brought into a PvP setting. And I'm pretty sure that's not what you were saying there.
The other is that while your thesis largely makes sense, you failed to specify that keeping a distance isn't always possible. I don't know shit about The Finals outside of what you just told me, but the majority of classes in TF2 perform their best at fairly close range. This often forces them to either go in and try to just out-DPS the Pyro which is surprisingly difficult for multiple reasons, or limit their own abilities by keeping a distance. Some classes don't even have the latter as an option thanks to airblast.
Despite those, I enjoyed this video overall and everything you said did make sense. Nice job!
Neptunia Fan spotted! :D
This video is amazing! All these edits look really good
THE FINALS MENTIONED, WE'RE REACHING THE FINAL WITH THIS, SCOTTY 🗣 🔊 🔥 🔥 🔥
Born to burn! - Eruptor
YES SKYLANDERS MENTION !
@@bodonoah4000 hey hey, I'm on fire! - Hothead
Blast and furious! - blast zone
greetings, fellow skylanders fan
@@JamesTheAce0 greetings.
Video game fire is the most satisfying mechanic ever implemented, and my Helldivers 2 kit is set up entirely with this in mind. When I get in close, the world is set ablaze.
0:52 ain't no way that bro is using the volcano against the destroyer bro should just use the flamethrowe
My idea of balancing crowd control (for specifically movement shooters) is to make the person using it have less health then everyone else and have the damage ramp up over time on enemys.
The idea of this is that the cc user has to stay in the fight risking their life to earn elims through movement as their damage ramps upward. The enemy now instead of being able to avoid this damage, has to catch the cc user before they eventually burn up, requiring fast reaction and good aim to catch out the pyromancer, while requiring good smoves from the cc user as to not get instantly one shot.
14:40 damn i just went through a really bad breakup yesterday and that's the last thing i thought i was gonna get out of a video essay about fire in video games.
Thank you for that i really needed to hear it.
We fight for ROCK. AND. STONE!
ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
I really appreciate how when you use video game terminology, such as crutch and crowd control, you add in a little definition for what it is
The definition shown for crowd control was correct, but the way he used the term throughout the video was wrong
i have a few things to say about your pyro rant
1: having a low skill ceiling doesnt mean its bad, iit just means its easier for new players
2: i wouldn't say airblast is annoying, its a great support tool and teaches players to be cautious about where they aim their rockets and that maybe relying only on the rocket launcher is a bad idea
3: pyro's main weakness is ranged so just staying far enough away can be enough
> Low skill ceiling
Detonator pyros: are we a joke to you?
@@TheMadJagger still, im saying having a low skl ceiling isnt necessarily a bad thing if you can balance it right, and unlockables dont count since we are mostly talking about stock pyro here
@@TheMadJaggerCombo Pyros: Mmph hmm hmmm
@@shaddysehly5040What you mean is low skill floor, low skill ceiling means that class doesn’t have much to learn
Pyro is an example of a low skill floor, but decently high skill ceiling, while say Spy has a high skill floor and ceiling
@@jblazerndrowzy ahh i see kinda forgot to separate the two, pyro is indeed easy to learn but a bit hard to master all the mechanics like detonator jumping proper airblast timing etc
This became really wholesome really fast towards the end. Thank you, Lucid.
Great video! But I think you should have mentioned how Pyro's flames behaved before Jungle Inferno and how oppressive and inconsistent it was them and how it's been changed after the update to reward better aim and afterburn duration related to how long a player stays in the fire.
Thumbs up for Pumpkin Hill! Also good video
Did not expect a philosophical turn at the end there. Quite the welcome surprise though. Great video
I know its a little different, but i always thought scorch and the firestars in titanfall 2 were an interesting way of handling fire. Sure, they're not the standard liquid fuel flamethrowers or molotovs that most people envision (sticking to players and dealing guaranteed damage over time) the thermite only effects the area where it hits, if you leave that area you dont keep taking damage. The damage over time is also really only there to balance out Scorch's massive damage potential and empower him to punish bad positioning. Its balanced by the fact that you need to be skilled to use it against players with a good understanding of chokepoints and movement, but is so incredibly rewarding by being so massively damaging. Firestars dont just tick you over time (unless you're in a titan) they either block off a choke or instantly kill you.
This video has crazy emplemon vibes and I love it
9:52 the drillers flamethrower can even melt through the ice in the glacial zone, which adds a little more to his environmental destructive design
Commenting for the algorithm, great video! I hope it starts picking up soon
I love this channel so much
A tale of four pyros!!! :D
That was a FIRE video!
The flames of hell bear arms that drag me under, closer to my damnation
i LOVE when someone talks about my thoughts thanks Lucid
I love how you used the acronym chapter thing EmpLemon used for his REVENGE video, you pulled the format off very well.
Honorable mention for Vermintide's Sienna, another PvE implementation of fire that explores non-DoT aspects of fire such as its explosive potential for spike damage and the ability to exploit and balance your overheat gauge to increase your combat power. Unlimited ammunition is a major advantage, but it requires skill to use well.
Just found your channel from the web fishing game video. Wow, you have real skill. Keep making great content, you have a bright future
i sense some emplemon inspiration, and i like it! keep it up!
minecraft: have you heard of breaking/extinguishing?
Great video, immediately obviously really well polished.
I'd almost say seemingly the majority of the effort was put into the polish over the scripting & delivery, but it still makes for a great overall video.
Man. That ending hit a lot harder than it should have, thank you
The problem with fire that creates the "What was I supposed to do?" effect is that if you get a lethal amount of shot the Game tells you you are dead. If you get a leather amount of fire the game lets you run around for a few seconds watching your HP go down to the inevitable death.
Fantastic video as always!
No sabía que existía este canal pero es sublime! Una obra maestra este video
Got an error screen at 11:04 and thought it was some inside joke from The Finals I hadn't encountered yet.
14:21 saying REAPER isn’t very good in the grand scheme of things when he was one of the meta DPS in the last couple professional Overwatch tournaments and basically in every team comp is INSANE
Note: DRG driller's flamethrower is often built to rely on so-called sticky flames, sticking to terrain itself, harming all enemies walking through the burning area as opposed to merely killing the few enemies hit directly
It allows a small ring of flames on circumference of the tunnel to become a trap that kills any small enemies walking through, no matter how numerous they are
It also doesn't need to be constantly maintained, just replenished from time to time
The flaw is that fire kills a burning enemy with a delay, so you have to pre-plan where enemies will go to set up sticky flames some distance away from yourself, or near-dead living torches will still be able to hurt you; fire isn't as good for rapid response as instant-damage explosions or direct hits
the finishing point was pretty sweet, im sure someone needed to hear that
"doesn't need to aim to be effective, instead relying entirely on positioning"
Engineer building his Sentry in a cheeky spot: 😅
You got the best taste in background music man, first red hot skull and then follow it up with splash canyon. Damn
Love that you used the song Red Hot Skull from Sonic Adventure for this video
Damn, somehow fits such heavy meaning into the balance of a game
The finals flamethrower is just DRG but the things you left out, driller can also ignite gas, it perhaps isn't that common but an enemy that spawns gas can always spawn, and removing it or using it as an explosion to kill enemies is a handy mechanic
i always appreciate games who give flamethrowers strong offense but like no range and a big overheat .
In the WW1 game Verdun there is a flamethrower too, and it is ver well balanced. The Wechselapparat cant be reloaded, if its empty yopu need to find an ammobox, and these are rare. So to resupply you need a friend who play an according soldier to be wildly effective. When you fire it there is a delay bofre flames come out, making it a weapon to lock down enemies or push a planned, slow push against well entrenched enemies, but you cant reallly be reactionary with it, the weapon is just too slow. It is also given to one soldier of a specific type of squad, which when selected dissatvantages all three other players in that squad with worse gear if I remember correctly.
Anytime I can use fire anywhere in game i just can't help but get so excited
I really enjoy how fire works in Darkest Dungeon 2. Instead of just dealing damage over time, it inflicts a stacking "burned" condition which makes targets more susceptible to fire attacks for the next few turns.
This lets a creative player snowball damage by combining fire attacks.
phylosophical gamedesign huh? yeah that's a neat video
i got your solution right here: afterburn that's cosmetic and deals no damage on its own, but allows for combos with projectile weapons like the tf2 flare gun. that's it.
I never thought someone would go back to the 3ds times and use a funky barn soundtrack for a video...
6:10 “Annoying at best, wildly destructive at worst”
I think you got the two items swapped with the quote
I see DRG in thumbnail. I click. ROCK AND STONE
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?!
@@tylersullivan4446 ROCK AND STONE
IF YOU ROCK AND STONE, YOUR NEVER ALONE!
be careful of fire before it breathes
beware of its fury before the hot breeze
control it, and the entire world is at your hands
ignore it, and it will take many with please
the end got deep outta nowhere and i love it
Was not going into this video expecting the ending to hit me like that…
Not every game needs to be a damn competitive esport!
But every game needs to be fun, and a lot of times, fire is not very fun to play agains't.
but every game needs to be fair
No game needs it. Yet, practically every pvp game has a comp scene. Why? Because it's fun to win. It's fun to complete the objective. It's satisfying. It's fun to feel your skill being rewarded and it is fun to play against people on the same level.
@@sg_sumthin4171nah
@@weeb_dweebSounds like a skill issue.
As a Demomain I dont find pyro that annoying or hard to deal with, until they airblast my bombs back at me.
I think q good way to balance fire is adding the potential for self-damage. Real military flamethrowers spewed flaming liquid that would splash off walls and stick to things, so if a Flamethrower Operator isn't careful they can get caught in the backsplash and burn themself alive.
0:57 using Aquatic Capital as a transition song in a video about fire, such a bold choice
i really thought the ending was gonna go into "and that's why this video is sponsored by BetterHelp!"
5:19 Umm spy medic engei these classes still may need aim skills, but they can play fine without them (pyro has the flare gun with is arguably the most impotent out of all of these)
i think Zarya is a great iteration of the “flamethrower” archetype. now it’s not exactly a flamethrower but it more or less acts the same. zarya is a tank character which means she’s big and slow. she’s got these bubbles that can be used on herself or on her teammates to protect them from damage but not only does it block damage but the more damage the bubble takes the more damage zarya will do. zarya with no charge for her beam deals pretty low damage but once she reaches max charge she deals a crap ton of damage. she’s an incredibly well designed tank character and fits the flamethrower archetype very well.
She uses energy cannon or something, but I agree, if she is still like in OW1 then she fits well that archetype with additional twist of working for the damage
As a pyro main I would like to argue that pyro doesn’t have the lowest skill ceiling because that would be sniper . Also we are very easy to counter due to how the flamethrower works and due to the flamethrower we rush into combat to get as much damage as possible but due to this mindset we become hyper focused on one person which makes us completely vulnerable from being attacked from behind or on the sides trust me I know because that’s what happens with me and all the other pyros. I also use the degreaser as my primary weapon and the degreaser has reduced after burn making it harder for me to kill my enemies with just fire so I often have to switch to my shotgun to finish my opponent off
I think another big thing with the Heavy in the finals is that it is the slowest class in the game. If you're playing as a Medium or especially a Light, just booking it to a more advantageous position as soon as you see the flames and trying to take out the flamethrower heavy from a safe distance is a valid option. It also doesn't affect your movement and aim, and its single target DPS is pretty low, so if you can keep your head on your shoulders and land your shots, you can probably kill the flamethrower Heavy before they can kill you
Fire is fun to use. Don’t wanna be set on fire? Check your corners
2:03
"Call of Duty"
CoD:United Offensive had flamethrowers as weapons you can use. Rare, but they were there.
This is really good video, another example of fire in games I would suggest looking into is rising storm 2:Vietnam which depicts a flame thrower accurately in that the flames stick and don’t go away quickly and you can easily kill yourself with it if you aren’t careful
6:19 The entire skill can be summed up by having the high ground.
wake up baby lucid dropped a new video
6:28 that is a SICK frag bro, respect
I don't think that's his footage because I've played with him once he had the game sense of an emu
Fire in the hole🗣️🔥🔥
15:45 God damn the last bit was for real FIRE
Great video overall, I'm really impressed by how well structured it is.
I'm onligated to metion that pyro sounds better at support than simply burning gas tho... That said I don't play the Finals, maybe it really is a massive problem.
doesn't need to aim
medic in the corner
Soldier in the corner
Demo in the corner (stickies)
Engineer in the corner with his level 3 aimbot
I love how everyone universally shits on the scorch shot when it's just a shittier version of the rocket launcher on a class that's less mobile and less healthy than the soldier
Duck game has to be most well thought out form of fire in pvp game
It's lethal to everyone and literally everyone. Even the one who tries to shoot it so most people become very aware of it and try to avoid it
“Ah fire” - Robot devil
This is a flammenwurfer.
It wurfs flammens.
gen 6 primal kyogre has entered the chat
Great video on a cool topic
I’m fine with any Crowd Control when snipers exist and vice versa.
Love this channel
One thing I wanna point out is that Pyro isnt a strictly offensive class and he is the most well-rounded class in TF2. He fits into every role, be it offense, defense or support.