I went the hard tail to keep me off the nasty single track. It worked. I ride it only on gravel roads and easy green trails. That’s what I want to reduce the risk of injury due to crashing. I’m an old dude now.
Love my hard tail Emtb I’ve had it everywhere on trails including black and double black trails. There are things it does very well and things it lacks. I learned to ride on a hard tail and enjoy riding it.
I bought a Specialized Tero 3.0 full power hard tail, I upgraded the front fork to a Fox Step cast, drive train to Eagle 12 speed, rims to DT Swiss all mountain, Added kushcores and better tires. I’m extremely pleased!
My hardtail ebike allows me to go where my healthy on form friends go, and we ride together. Without my hardtail ebike I couldn't ride together with my friends, or they would have to wait a lot for me. Therefore, for me, a hardtail is great. Mostly we ride cross country, so, no trails, then we don't need full suspension bkes.
@@romiejohnbanares1184 I measure the battery by how many hours riding I get out of one charge, not the kilometres travelled. I regularly get 7 hours and have had 8 hours from a charge. I hope you enjoy your riding. 🙂
I have both a Trek Rail and an Orbea Urrun and both bikes are great. I wanted the Urrun when it first came out but it wasn't available here in Australia when I was buying, and the Rail was one of few bikes I could actually get at the time. I had also just spent the previous 6 years riding a rigid 4.8" fat bike - so I'm basically an idiot anyway - and so the thought of a hardtail was almost luxurious. Unless I'm going into the thick of things my go to bike is the Urrun. I upsized the tyres to 2.6 which has taken most of that excess rigidity out of the frame and I prefer the Shimano 60nm to the full power Bosch. Again, I'm an idiot. My next birthday is 67 and both bikes are keeping me out there enjoying myself.
I have an Urrun also. Good to hear about 2.6 tyres, as I have some coming next week. I've done about 2000 km so far and love the bike. So light I only use motor on hills so I'm getting 150 - 200klms out of each charge. Never do tech stuff (65 years old). Bike is perfect for long run adventure riding.
I have 2 budget hardtail ebikes I built up to run trails and explore with. They work well and are a lot of fun. Just pick the right tool for the job..🍊🤙
You properly hate hardtails! So biased PMSL! 😆Not everybody wants to chuck themselves down steep root filled tech trails and massive jumps, id wager the majority of casual EMTB riders go nowhere near most of the extreme tracks you ride and don't need a full suss, you shouldn't look at things just through your own eyes and interests is my opinion.
I would love an emtb hardtail for bike packing or spending the night up the mountains then bumble downhill by sunrise. I'd still do it on a regular hardtail tho but it's not as enjoyable when an emtb just gives you energy to spare for whatever you're gonna do next.
I like my regular hardtail...love it actually. It's fun. Reminds me of when I was a kid. It feels young to me and I'm in my 50's. Yes, I do find "better" lines on it because it doesn't perform like my full suspension bikes where I can simply point and shoot. I find my eyes are scanning faster...the curve...the drop...put the tire between the rocks...watch the root angles... punch up the rocky garden...shift my weight...watch the landing...etc. Over time I've built up my quiver of bikes WITHOUT going broke and the enjoyment I get out of the different types keeps me interested, and sometimes excited and every now and again, scared.
With emtb it may be different but hardtails tend to be more maneuverable and faster for redirecting momentum. If you have steep trails or are tackling big features, full sus rides like a monster truck cruising over rock.
haha now the challenge becomes getting your emtb hard tail down rough terrain without falling apart =D Gives "finding a clean line" a whole new definition!
I have a Cannondale neo cujo hardtail. Remember,.here in the states they are governed at 20mph. I go at road bike pace to my neighborhood trails, the bike is fast. I ride it just like a regular hardtail, I stand alot and I learned how to pedal smoothly while standing. Plus, I got strong enough to bunnyhop it. Steve, if the bikes in England were at 20mph you would see how a E hardtail is great midweek shredder.
You don't miss out on learning skills by riding full suspension bikes -- but they can certainly make up for lack of skill. Of course, the benefit would be increased confidence which might allow a beginner to progress rapidly. I would actually not be surprised if a HT rider would become a better HT rider by riding a FS for a while.
Mountain bikes' Jeremy Clarkson disagrees with bikes he can't ride. Seriously though, I think you've missed a point by hating on an access point to the sport in order to sell more expensive bikes. I ride hardtail because I flipping hate faff. In the UK we need a decent bearing design which doesn't wear out after one mucky British ride - deviate are on to something but not seen any emtb designs like it :/
Bikes don't teach. Riders learn. Wrong line choices etc on a HT are a much harsher lesson than on a FS. You learn what NOT to do faster on a HT as they are less forgiving. They are not "better" bikes. They are "poorer" or "worse" or more "limited" and those short comings don't allow for mistakes as readily as a FS bike. It is no different than comparing a 100mm travel XC bike vs a 200mm travel DH bike on a rough downhill trail. Both can do it but if you mess up a line or landing on the DH bike you need less skill to recover from mistakes or bad choices.
I started mountain biking right after high school in 1989 on a hard tail Specialized Hard Rock. Fast forward to 2023 I'm 52 years old and I'm riding a Santa Cruz Megatower and when on solo rides I'm on my Transition Repeater e-mbt. I couldn't care less if the latest hard tail came with the best e-motor in the world because I would never ride one again. I do believe that there's just no need for them anymore.
I love emtb hardtail cheaper and can be set up to be very comfortable with the right tires and psi in those tires at least 2.6” wide running 10-12 psi.
You make an interesting point towards the end of the video that a hybrid might be a better choice than a hardtail for gravel touring. I have a Carrera Subway (Hesc motor 420Wh) which I feel like I've almost out grown now. It's been across Dartmoor and done some time in the Brecons as well as covering most of Pembs. It's decent bike although possibly a bit range challenged. I chose it over more mtb style bikes because it doesn't have a coil fork. But I'd love to see some "adventure bike" style e bike reviews. I don't mean the really hardcore stuff, more at the relaxed end of the market. Like what would be a good choice of bike for something like the Ridgeway?
Putting motors on to anything takes out the weight and handling advantages of an mtb let alone the financial aspect too. Not withstanding, you can get an entry level full sus bike for the price of a decent xc hardtail. For flowy xcountry trails, hardtails are are way quicker and more pure than a full sus bike if you can ride and are fit enough to access it. Ebikes also encourage sitting down vs standing up which makes a difference to the way they are ridden and balanced as well. So it's not a simple argument. Similar to narrow vs fatter skis 😉
I am a 53yr old mtb beginner (well it's been years so yeah newbie), and looking to get a mtb to regain my fitness once I've had an hip Op! From my little past experience a hardtail had me picking my lines carefully and really pushed my limited skills. When trying a friends full sus I thought about my lines less, went faster... Great! (no I almost crashed twice) I pushed beyond my ability. So I will be looking for a low powered electric hardtail (Trek 8 + 50/60NM torque), to give me a bit of assistance but not take over. If anyone has any suggestions of other emtb hardtails, please educate me 😊
I bought Grand Canyon:ON for daily driving to work, grocery store, or fishing trips. It's been great for that stuff, but part of me has gotten interested in real mountain biking (real as in actually shredding trails for the sake of it, acoustic or electric doesn't matter), and this hardtail emtb feels restricting in that aspect. Canyon grades it as 3, which means it should be ok for that, but then again it's not 4 like Stoic. I've been having hard time deciding if upgrading my ebike with better fork, brakes, wheelset and tires would be a good idea for some trail riding or if I should just get a new mtb for that purpose, and leave the Grand Canyon:ON as my commuter. Ep8 feels like wasted potential if I don't put the 85nm to good use on trails. It's a good quality bike, but ends up feeling like unfortunate inbetweener. Should probably ask the hardtail expert Blake if it would be cool to make it HaRdCoRe 😅
Problem for me with EMTB hardtails is that you spend so much more time sitting down on an EMTB then you do on an MTB. A hardtail is quite literally a pain in the a**e with all the pedal bob and impacts you get from every single rock, root and pebble in your path. But I've converted quite a few MTBers to EMTB now and I always advise them to spend all their money on the motor and frame, because the rest can be upgraded later. If you buy a hardtail EMTB then it's highly likely that sooner or later you're going to regret it
You came into this with a strong bias against hardtails and it shows. If we are being honest here you have spent years on a full sus which has made you comfortable plowing lines and you aren't adapting to the bikes differences. As for an ehardtail the big issue currently is the selection sucks. There are no aggressive geo ehardtails made, instead we get offerings like the Marlin which is borderline hybrid geometry. So on that reasoning alone I would agree that ehardtails suck, but when they finally catch up to modern geo I would be onboard with an ehardtail, until then I will stick to my analog hardtails.
Motorcycle people got over the hardtail thing, in about the late 30's or so? Who the hell wants a bike that beats the living daylights out of you? A dual suspension XC amish bike can weigh 24 lbs or less these days. And their shorter travel works a lot better than old short travel did. Ive bought full suspension mt bikes since they started making them, but the new ones are WAY better. And yup I rode those full rigid mt bikes in the late 80's /early 90's. Clankers.
there are no progressive e-hardtails with powerful motors and large batteries on the market. all the full power hardtails stop at 120mm travel, fairly steep fork angle. I built an insane 140mm travel progressive e-hardtail, with a pnw coast suspension dropper. by far unsurpassed in power and range, and very confortable to ride thanks to the RS pike upfront and 40mm air spring of the suspension dropper. obvious advantages of hardtails are their usefulness in every day life: commuting, pulling trailers, good mudguards, all of which full suspension bikes suck at. the only progressive e-hardtail on the market is the Rose Bonero plus, but it's very weak and has only a small range. to put it into perspective, the bike I built weighs 25.5kg, has 135Nm, 1400Wh and is equipped with an integrated high power light system, full coverage mudguards and a rear rack. not a single carbon component on there.
The thing is that there are hardly any Ebike Hardtails in the DC, trail oder let alone enduro category. Most of them are tailored to trekking, commuting or maybe light forest tracks. I do love my Enduro Hardtail and yes, I don't like rock gardens, but even on a full sus, who likes them?! 😅
I went the hard tail to keep me off the nasty single track. It worked. I ride it only on gravel roads and easy green trails. That’s what I want to reduce the risk of injury due to crashing. I’m an old dude now.
Steve “I don’t hate hardtails” but here’s a video on why I hate hardtails, total bias as per usual.
The old school hardtail is the dna to this evolution and will be forever fun to ride, amen to that 🙃
Love my hard tail Emtb I’ve had it everywhere on trails including black and double black trails. There are things it does very well and things it lacks. I learned to ride on a hard tail and enjoy riding it.
What are you riding? I looking for an aggressive e Hardtail 😮
I bought a Specialized Tero 3.0 full power hard tail, I upgraded the front fork to a Fox Step cast, drive train to Eagle 12 speed, rims to DT Swiss all mountain, Added kushcores and better tires. I’m extremely pleased!
Love my HT Haibike with 2.6" tires and a Yari fork
My hardtail ebike allows me to go where my healthy on form friends go, and we ride together. Without my hardtail ebike I couldn't ride together with my friends, or they would have to wait a lot for me. Therefore, for me, a hardtail is great. Mostly we ride cross country, so, no trails, then we don't need full suspension bkes.
Suspension seat pole is a game changer.
I prefer hard tails I’ve ridden mine on black- red blue single track and bridal ways. Cheaper to service and you have to develop . more skill
Apologies, I didn't explain how I got to the Urrun. After some 15+mths of fun on the Rail I saw the Urrun advertised and just couldn't help myself.
@@AllanDownunder i ordered urrun 40. How long is the battery? It got ep6
@@romiejohnbanares1184 I measure the battery by how many hours riding I get out of one charge, not the kilometres travelled. I regularly get 7 hours and have had 8 hours from a charge. I hope you enjoy your riding. 🙂
I have both a Trek Rail and an Orbea Urrun and both bikes are great. I wanted the Urrun when it first came out but it wasn't available here in Australia when I was buying, and the Rail was one of few bikes I could actually get at the time. I had also just spent the previous 6 years riding a rigid 4.8" fat bike - so I'm basically an idiot anyway - and so the thought of a hardtail was almost luxurious. Unless I'm going into the thick of things my go to bike is the Urrun. I upsized the tyres to 2.6 which has taken most of that excess rigidity out of the frame and I prefer the Shimano 60nm to the full power Bosch. Again, I'm an idiot. My next birthday is 67 and both bikes are keeping me out there enjoying myself.
I have an Urrun also. Good to hear about 2.6 tyres, as I have some coming next week. I've done about 2000 km so far and love the bike. So light I only use motor on hills so I'm getting 150 - 200klms out of each charge. Never do tech stuff (65 years old). Bike is perfect for long run adventure riding.
I have 2 budget hardtail ebikes I built up to run trails and explore with.
They work well and are a lot of fun. Just pick the right tool for the job..🍊🤙
You properly hate hardtails! So biased PMSL! 😆Not everybody wants to chuck themselves down steep root filled tech trails and massive jumps, id wager the majority of casual EMTB riders go nowhere near most of the extreme tracks you ride and don't need a full suss, you shouldn't look at things just through your own eyes and interests is my opinion.
I would love an emtb hardtail for bike packing or spending the night up the mountains then bumble downhill by sunrise.
I'd still do it on a regular hardtail tho but it's not as enjoyable when an emtb just gives you energy to spare for whatever you're gonna do next.
I like my regular hardtail...love it actually. It's fun. Reminds me of when I was a kid. It feels young to me and I'm in my 50's. Yes, I do find "better" lines on it because it doesn't perform like my full suspension bikes where I can simply point and shoot. I find my eyes are scanning faster...the curve...the drop...put the tire between the rocks...watch the root angles... punch up the rocky garden...shift my weight...watch the landing...etc. Over time I've built up my quiver of bikes WITHOUT going broke and the enjoyment I get out of the different types keeps me interested, and sometimes excited and every now and again, scared.
With emtb it may be different but hardtails tend to be more maneuverable and faster for redirecting momentum. If you have steep trails or are tackling big features, full sus rides like a monster truck cruising over rock.
Why did I go from a hard tail to a full suspension bike ?
My body told me and my mind said price wasn’t an issue . lol
haha now the challenge becomes getting your emtb hard tail down rough terrain without falling apart =D Gives "finding a clean line" a whole new definition!
I have a Cannondale neo cujo hardtail. Remember,.here in the states they are governed at 20mph. I go at road bike pace to my neighborhood trails, the bike is fast. I ride it just like a regular hardtail, I stand alot and I learned how to pedal smoothly while standing. Plus, I got strong enough to bunnyhop it. Steve, if the bikes in England were at 20mph you would see how a E hardtail is great midweek shredder.
You don't miss out on learning skills by riding full suspension bikes -- but they can certainly make up for lack of skill. Of course, the benefit would be increased confidence which might allow a beginner to progress rapidly. I would actually not be surprised if a HT rider would become a better HT rider by riding a FS for a while.
I got Hardtail Ebike with 29” wheels also better than Allmtn 2 Riding to Work on Mullet set up Hardtail got suspension Seatpost & Pike ultimate forks
How do you like it?
Mountain bikes' Jeremy Clarkson disagrees with bikes he can't ride. Seriously though, I think you've missed a point by hating on an access point to the sport in order to sell more expensive bikes. I ride hardtail because I flipping hate faff. In the UK we need a decent bearing design which doesn't wear out after one mucky British ride - deviate are on to something but not seen any emtb designs like it :/
Was that Blake Sampson’s scout you threw in the bushes😂
Bikes don't teach. Riders learn. Wrong line choices etc on a HT are a much harsher lesson than on a FS. You learn what NOT to do faster on a HT as they are less forgiving. They are not "better" bikes. They are "poorer" or "worse" or more "limited" and those short comings don't allow for mistakes as readily as a FS bike. It is no different than comparing a 100mm travel XC bike vs a 200mm travel DH bike on a rough downhill trail. Both can do it but if you mess up a line or landing on the DH bike you need less skill to recover from mistakes or bad choices.
I started mountain biking right after high school in 1989 on a hard tail Specialized Hard Rock. Fast forward to 2023 I'm 52 years old and I'm riding a Santa Cruz Megatower and when on solo rides I'm on my Transition Repeater e-mbt. I couldn't care less if the latest hard tail came with the best e-motor in the world because I would never ride one again. I do believe that there's just no need for them anymore.
I love emtb hardtail cheaper and can be set up to be very comfortable with the right tires and psi in those tires at least 2.6” wide running 10-12 psi.
Love my ebike hardtail put a suspension seat post on it rides great
I like the challenge of riding a hard tail.
Some of us don't have the luxury of choice, I'm over the weight limit for anything but a hardtail within the range of bikes I can actually afford....
You make an interesting point towards the end of the video that a hybrid might be a better choice than a hardtail for gravel touring. I have a Carrera Subway (Hesc motor 420Wh) which I feel like I've almost out grown now. It's been across Dartmoor and done some time in the Brecons as well as covering most of Pembs. It's decent bike although possibly a bit range challenged. I chose it over more mtb style bikes because it doesn't have a coil fork. But I'd love to see some "adventure bike" style e bike reviews. I don't mean the really hardcore stuff, more at the relaxed end of the market. Like what would be a good choice of bike for something like the Ridgeway?
Putting motors on to anything takes out the weight and handling advantages of an mtb let alone the financial aspect too. Not withstanding, you can get an entry level full sus bike for the price of a decent xc hardtail.
For flowy xcountry trails, hardtails are are way quicker and more pure than a full sus bike if you can ride and are fit enough to access it.
Ebikes also encourage sitting down vs standing up which makes a difference to the way they are ridden and balanced as well.
So it's not a simple argument.
Similar to narrow vs fatter skis 😉
I am a 53yr old mtb beginner (well it's been years so yeah newbie), and looking to get a mtb to regain my fitness once I've had an hip Op!
From my little past experience a hardtail had me picking my lines carefully and really pushed my limited skills.
When trying a friends full sus I thought about my lines less, went faster... Great! (no I almost crashed twice) I pushed beyond my ability. So I will be looking for a low powered electric hardtail (Trek 8 + 50/60NM torque), to give me a bit of assistance but not take over.
If anyone has any suggestions of other emtb hardtails, please educate me 😊
I bought Grand Canyon:ON for daily driving to work, grocery store, or fishing trips. It's been great for that stuff, but part of me has gotten interested in real mountain biking (real as in actually shredding trails for the sake of it, acoustic or electric doesn't matter), and this hardtail emtb feels restricting in that aspect. Canyon grades it as 3, which means it should be ok for that, but then again it's not 4 like Stoic. I've been having hard time deciding if upgrading my ebike with better fork, brakes, wheelset and tires would be a good idea for some trail riding or if I should just get a new mtb for that purpose, and leave the Grand Canyon:ON as my commuter. Ep8 feels like wasted potential if I don't put the 85nm to good use on trails. It's a good quality bike, but ends up feeling like unfortunate inbetweener. Should probably ask the hardtail expert Blake if it would be cool to make it HaRdCoRe 😅
Happy Trails to all the Hammerheads..!!! Ride…!!!!! ❤❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉😅😅🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃
Problem for me with EMTB hardtails is that you spend so much more time sitting down on an EMTB then you do on an MTB. A hardtail is quite literally a pain in the a**e with all the pedal bob and impacts you get from every single rock, root and pebble in your path.
But I've converted quite a few MTBers to EMTB now and I always advise them to spend all their money on the motor and frame, because the rest can be upgraded later. If you buy a hardtail EMTB then it's highly likely that sooner or later you're going to regret it
Get a better seat..🍊🤙
Stand Up, when it's bumpy? 😂 Like we all do on MTB! 😊
@@eXaviar this
@@ebikeprepping ?
@@eXaviar I'm agreeing with your statement.
Someone who's loaded 🤣
Debunking many of Matt Jones theories on the spot😂
You came into this with a strong bias against hardtails and it shows. If we are being honest here you have spent years on a full sus which has made you comfortable plowing lines and you aren't adapting to the bikes differences.
As for an ehardtail the big issue currently is the selection sucks. There are no aggressive geo ehardtails made, instead we get offerings like the Marlin which is borderline hybrid geometry. So on that reasoning alone I would agree that ehardtails suck, but when they finally catch up to modern geo I would be onboard with an ehardtail, until then I will stick to my analog hardtails.
Motorcycle people got over the hardtail thing, in about the late 30's or so? Who the hell wants a bike that beats the living daylights out of you?
A dual suspension XC amish bike can weigh 24 lbs or less these days. And their shorter travel works a lot better than old short travel did. Ive bought full suspension mt bikes since they started making them, but the new ones are WAY better.
And yup I rode those full rigid mt bikes in the late 80's /early 90's. Clankers.
there are no progressive e-hardtails with powerful motors and large batteries on the market. all the full power hardtails stop at 120mm travel, fairly steep fork angle. I built an insane 140mm travel progressive e-hardtail, with a pnw coast suspension dropper. by far unsurpassed in power and range, and very confortable to ride thanks to the RS pike upfront and 40mm air spring of the suspension dropper. obvious advantages of hardtails are their usefulness in every day life: commuting, pulling trailers, good mudguards, all of which full suspension bikes suck at.
the only progressive e-hardtail on the market is the Rose Bonero plus, but it's very weak and has only a small range.
to put it into perspective, the bike I built weighs 25.5kg, has 135Nm, 1400Wh and is equipped with an integrated high power light system, full coverage mudguards and a rear rack. not a single carbon component on there.
The thing is that there are hardly any Ebike Hardtails in the DC, trail oder let alone enduro category.
Most of them are tailored to trekking, commuting or maybe light forest tracks.
I do love my Enduro Hardtail and yes, I don't like rock gardens, but even on a full sus, who likes them?! 😅