Are you a Catwoman stan 🐈⬛ or a Penguin fan? 🐧 Let me know below and thanks for watching! For a complete list of all of my reactions and links to socials and more, visit my website: kaiielle.com. Suggest movies and TV series to me here: forms.gle/XZVvZhfhwFzsDpRU9 And come join my Discord server: discord.gg/4KQXhXJQVU Cheers! ✌
Both. I think people of my generation who lived with the Adam West Batman (which was light-hearted and kid-friendly) until 1989 are reminded of the Adam West series when you have the themed villains (Jack Nicholson had his crew, and Danny DeVito had his themed crew). We considered the Tim Burton films to be dark because of how much the Adam West version was still in popular culture. I get why people who have Matt Reeves and Christopher Nolan in their lives when they first watch these don't feel the same.
Michelle Pfeiffer's portrayal of Catwoman is my favorite out of any incarnation. Between her latex outfit, her makeup and the completely different tones of voice for the two sides of the same character are so purrfect. (Sorry, but I had to do a cat pun).
My absolute favourite Batman. It has the best Penguin & Catwoman performances on screen, it has the best set design of any Batman movie, plus it has that perfect balance of camp and darkness.
There’s something fun and whimsical about these movies that the new ones lack. A kind of energy that harkens back to the comics and tv shows of the 80s and 90s before the obsession with realistic interpretations and grittiness. I like both but really appreciate these older movies for what they are.
17:47 - Fun fact - The "whip mannequin beheading" scene was not only done in one take, but on the first take. Michelle Pfeiffer extensively trained with the whip and in the BTS, director Tim Burton yells "cut" right afterwards to which applause from the crew erupts as they appear on screen to congratulate her.
🦇🐈⬛🐧 Imagine, if you will, the summer of 1992. My new local theater was about to be christened with an 8 PM screening of Batman Returns. The line was out the door with people excited. Across the street, the local McDonalds had commemorative cups and Frisbee lids and the promise of more merchandise to come to cash in on the second wave of Bat-mania. And then the movie opened. Not lying, McDonalds pulled all the merchandise as fast as they absolutely could because they objected to the content. Specifically the darker tone, violence and the sex jokes. Lots and lots of sex jokes. So, yeah, compared to the first movie, this is such a drastic change in tone. Batman looks… well.. impotent. Penguin yo-yos between monster and the horniest man in the world. But at least we got a pretty defining version of Catwoman! And three months later, got the animated series which is always worth celebrating. I agree, this is not a good Batman movie. It’s barely a good movie except for the character studies and a few of the one liners (“You have kind of a dark side, Selina.” “No darker than yours.”), but still worth a watch. Once. And it gets better from here! Right?
Batman (1989) and Batman Returns (1992) were comics made into movies. From the way Gotham looks, the stories and the characters. With some tropes from the 80's tropes. Which makes them very different to the later ones. Both were an upgrade to the Batman series from 1966-1968. Which I hear had it's own charm.
I saw this film when I was about 13/14, I loved it. however seeing it through your eyes I realise how adult it was and ridiculous. But I do remember that it was just about the characters and the performances. Yes, Michelle Pfeffer was the reason why everyone loved it back in the early 90s. Did not realise how much double entendre was in it.
Great reaction. This has been my favorite Batman movie since I was a kid, but I love that you're honest about your feelings about the movies you watch. It's okay that this wasn't your cup of tea, it's a remarkably strange film. Maybe one of the strangest big-budget releases of the 90s. Since you talked a fair bit in the Batman 89 reaction about loving Billy Dee Williams, there's a fascinating behind the scenes story about why he's not in this one. Harvey Dent was actually one of the primary antagonists in the original script -- HE was to be the corrupt public official who Bruce sparred with, who partnered with Cobblepot, and who pushed his secretary Selina Kyle out a high-rise window. In the climax, Selina's shocking "kiss" was to burn half his face, leaving him ready to be full-on Two Face for the next movie. So what happened, and where did Max Schrek come from? Basically, Warner Bros decided to get super racist. They didn't want a black co-lead. They literally bought Williams out of his contract -- paid his full acting salary -- to get him to NOT be in the movie, and forced Burton and his writers to change the script. They changed as little as possible, other than the name and his being a business magnate instead of a politician, but for the most part kept the role and dialogue exactly the same. Listen to the Batman Returns episode of the fantastic podcast Blank Check with Griffin & David if you want to hear the full details, but that's the gist. As much as I love Christopher Walken, I feel like this could've been an even better movie if they'd stuck with the original plan.
I used to dislike this movie, but after multiple viewings, it grew on me. Something kept me coming back and thinking, "did I really not like this?" and now, depending on the day, I have a hard time figuring out which of the two Burton movies I liked more. Michelle's Catwoman definitely makes the decision much harder. Her descent is just amazing to watch, and her physical work is next level. Anyone willing to put a live bird in their mouth for a scene gets props for dedication. I love her arc in particular, and overall I love Burton's spin on Penguin in this. Thematically, he is very close to his comic counterpart, (heir to the Cobblepot estate, but cast down from high society and turning to crime in order to regain what he believes should be his rightful place) but very different in execution which sets him apart from his origins and paints him more as an homage to Frankenstein's monster. The story to this one is far more subdued and less clear-cut than the original, which might be a knock against it for some, but there are a lot of little details that flesh it out when you notice them. And the plot centers a lot around Gotham's inner-city politics and how the corruption from the rich is filtering down to the rest of the city as Shreck puppeteers officials to his own ends. Very fitting for the setting. Though I do like how they even gave him one redeeming quality in that he cares very much for his own son, Chip, and does everything he does for his sake, underhanded as it is. It even parallel's with Penguin's story, in that his parents threw him away, while Max offers up his own life for his son. "Tragic irony, or poetic justice? You tell me." There's a lot to like here, and I've come around on this movie since my first viewing all those years ago. One day I hope it'll hit you the same way. Maybe not, but I didn't think I'd find myself going back to it so often back then either.
"This is just so weird..." I kinda love that Batman is hardly in it and we focus mainly on the weirdo villains. Revenant Catwoman and sewer monster Penguin are very interesting takes on the characters and I appreciate that the movie takes the time to explore them. I am eternally sad we never got the Burton Batman Forever, which would have featured Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face and Robin Williams as Riddler. Still, definitely watch Batman Forever, but be aware it is tonally different from the Burtons. Schumacher is a fan of the Adam West Batman (the 1966 Batman movie is very funny) and it shows in his 2 Batman entries.
Out of all the Batman movies, I like this one the most. I thought the first one tried to please a certain kind of crowd, but missed a bit. Batman Returns demonstrates a confidence in Tim Burton's handling of the material. I liked the movie a lot more than I thought I would.
30:14 I love how Bruce and Selina aren't wearing masks but everyone else is showing how these alter egos are the masks they wear to hide what feels like their true identities as Batman and Catwoman. It's a nice subtle detail.
Tim Burton himself actually said he prefers Batman Returns over 1989. He felt the first was a bit dull and boring at times and not really what he truly wanted for his Batman movie. (He and his wife even wrote a treatment in 1985 that's very different yet has similarities to Returns like Joker being the Mayor, and set in the winter. And a scarier sounding Joker described as being a new incarnation of Satan and having spiked up hair like Beetlejuice before he even did that film.) Batman Return's screenwriter, Wesley Strick, also revealed that Tim Burton complained about making superhero movies and compared them to Chinese water torture. That's when he asked Burton "If you hate it so much, why are you doing the sequel?" And he told him "Because I think I learned a lot during the first Batman movie and I want a second movie where I can put to use everything I learned." And to basically undo the mistakes he thought he made with the 1989 film considering that it was also a studio interfered movie. Burton originally wanted Brad Dourif as Joker but WB always wanted Jack Nicholson as a more profitable actor, Sean Young was supposed to play Vicki Vale and shot a scene where she rode on a horse with Bruce but fell off the horse and had to be replaced, the producer wanted Prince for the pop songs, give Batman Nike shoes, have him fight a ninja as Joker's goon, and change the climax with the church chase to make it feel like Phantom of the Opera. You can also see why in Batman Returns, everything is SO different like Gotham, the Batcave, the gadgets, the batsuit, and no Vicki or Knox because he couldn't stand them. It was so different from the first film that Burton jokingly said "We might as well just call it 'Batman' again." For a while, he didn't want to come back considering the first film was his first major studio movie and didn't want to go through it immediately after and did Edward Scissorshands. The writer for the original did wrote an early script titled Batman II with Vicki coming back, Penguin and Catwoman closer to the comics and wanted to steal hidden treasure under Wayne Manor, Robin was included as a homless child, many of the same sets were to return, snd they even expanded Jack Napier's background as to why he killed Bruce's parents as he was hired by a mob killing the riches familes of Gotham and the treasure being linked it. It was very much what people expected this seauel to be. But Burton didn't like it, he felt it was more of the same movie and had too much plot. WB then allowed him to have the creative freedom to do whatever he wanted. Meaning, he could his own writers, he didn't have to listen to the studio's notes like including Robin, he could have his own pop songs, and didn't need to use the same sets. WB got what they wanted of making the sequel a Tim Burton movie. But because of that, kids and parents were startled by the film's dark twisted tone, the disgusting Penguin and downbeat ending compared to the first film's. WB was left exactly how Burton felt before making the second film, feeling as long as Batman was on the poster, would it even matter who directed the movie(?)
there will never be a Catwoman as epic and gorgeous as Michelle! EVER! her sexy but unhinged performance was perfect! I was obsessed with her as a kid, wanted to be Catwoman at every Halloween lol
Tim Burton had directed Paul Reubens in Pee Wee's Big Adventure back in 1985. Batman Returns was filmed shortly after Reubens' arrest for indecent exposure in an adult theater and Burton must have been trying to help him get back into the swing of things.
This movie came out the summer I turned 13. I ended up seeing it in theaters four times. It was really my proper introduction to Batman. And it was completely overtaken in my fandom just a few months later when Batman the Animated Series started airing. Kevin Conroy is my Batman. Mark Hamill is my Joker. That series still holds up as a classic.
"Wow, Batman has nice handwriting..." And bat-stationary. Batman's bat-themed knicknacks is a callback to the Adam West show, where everything was bat-this and bat-that. And I mean everything. Bat-shark repellant 😅
I think of the two Tim Burton Batman films as transitional pieces - a bridge between the Adam West TV show and the Nolan trilogy. They have a darkness of tone (supposedly inspired by the graphic novel The Dark Knight Returns) which foreshadows the Nolan films, but also moments of absurd, colourful campiness (the Joker in the museum, Penguin's rubber duck etc) which would not have been out of place in the 1966 show. Great in their day for exorcising the view of Batman as a franchise purely for kids, but since eclipsed by Nolan's additions to the franchise.
21:43 That was a fairly big criticism a lot of people had with both of Tim Burton's Batman movies. They seemed more focused on the villain characters and Bruce/Batman is just...there. He's the title character but he's treated like the least interesting character and gets the least development.
Yeah, we had to wait until Mask of the Phantasm to get a movie that focused on Batman/Bruce Wayne. Batman Begins took a lot of inspiration from that animated movie too.
1989 Batman is still my favourite live action comic book adaptation ever but Barman Returns is pretty good too. It feels much more 'burtonish' (the same thing with the Dark Knight where you can see more Nolan's style than in the Batman Begins). And Michael Keaton is my favourite live action Batman, a little bit psycho, a little bit creepy, just perfect.
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but Christopher Walkens charcter is named Max Schreck as a nod to the german actor of the same name who is most famous for playing Count Orlok in Nosferatu (1922).
Yep... The ogre Shrek was less well known in 1993 (the first Shrek film came out in 2001 but the book it was based on was released in 1990 - Shrek was named after the Yiddish word for "fear", derived from Shreck, the German word for "fear"... making Max Shreck's name - both the actor's name and the character's name here - all the more appropriate).
Michelle Pfeiffer was a checker at the only grocery store (at the time) in the town where I grew up. I met her younger sister Dedee (Dorothy) Pfeiffer July 1st. She was super sweet and pretty like her sister.
@kaiielle You should at least watch the Mask of the Phantasm animated movie. It was released theatrically in 1993, and you don't need to have watched the tv show first. It's a standalone story, and one of the best Batman films ever made.
I'm actually mostly with you on this one. I knew absolutely nothing about Batman through most of my childhood. My dad was a Marvel Comics collector, so I saw lots of Marvel related stuff, but not much DC. My very first experience with Batman was "The Dark Knight" (I wasn't aware there was a movie before it at the time in the Nolan trilogy). Heath Ledger's Joker was so epic and terrifying, and the whole vibe was so cool, I was hooked immediately, but on the Joker, not so much Batman himself. I wanted more Joker. I went from there to the Animated Series, caught up on the rest of the Nolan Trilogy, then went back to these old movies. And I'm sorry to the fans who grew up with these and get nostalgic about them, but these just... if the Nolan Batman movies are your introduction, these just aren't that good. I mean... Heath Ledger's Joker is menacing and intelligent, always one step ahead. Nicholson's Joker was just a clown. 😉 Seriously though, what I do like about these old movies is that the city looks much more gothic and atmospheric. That's a positive from these. But the characters and the general plots are just cartoonish, and not in the cool "Batman the Animated Series" way, but in the "This is just ridiculous" way. Now, I liked Michelle Pfieffer as Catwoman. Sexy and fun. Best part of the movie by a mile. I like Michael Keaton as an actor. His Batman/Bruce Wayne is okay. But as far as these old movies go, after starting with Nolan, they just don't do anything for me. If I had to give them star ratings (the ones you've seen so far only, of course), I'd give the first one three stars, and this one two (and without Michelle's Catwoman, this would be a one-star). It's just my opinion on them. For the people who like them, I'm happy. If this Batman is their favorite iteration, that's awesome. It's just not for me. ✌🤓
It's kind of funny seeing someone who didn't know these movies when they were new find them goofy.😅 The whole thing especially about the first movie was that it was considered a very dark and gritty adaptation. People had been very much used to the 60s live action show (which is fantastic but essentially a comedy adventure show) and many of the comic books before the 80s also being very silly. Batman had been dark in the 40s, very silly in the 50s and 60s before that was toned down again in the 70s... but only in the 80s was Batman getting really dark, and this movie was to pay tribute to that trend. So people who were not avid comic readers were kind of puzzled why a Batman movie was so dark and serious. Me as a kid didn't like it all that much either. As I got older I grew to appreciate it more. Apparently that doesn't translate to today anymore.😅 Batman Returns was more cartoonish in some ways but also got trouble for violence and horrifying imagery. Neither of the Tim Burton Batman movies were meant as kids movies or anything.😁 I get why they seem so strange if you started with the Dark Knight trilogy. Personally I would only put the Dark Knight above the Burton movies. Batman Begins I found very lackluster and dull, and DK Rises is good but a bit of an overblown mess imo. I think a big part is Christopher Nolan's wish for realism. Specifically Gotham City lacks any character in that trilogy imo, it looks like any generic city. When I ride the tram to work every day much of it looks like it might as well be in Nolan's Gotham. Burton's Gotham is more artistic and moody, instantly recognizable. Characters like Batman fit there, they don't feel so misplaced like in Nolan's everyday enviroment. Also... Danny Elfman's music is great. I can never remember anything Hans Zimmer composed. But Elfman's Batman theme is instantly recognizable like John Williams' Superman (and Star Wars and Indiana Jones) themes. I miss those epic hero themes. So overall Batman 89 and Batman Returns are my second and third favorite Batman movies.
It is really funny how looking back, going from the Adam West Batman to the Michael Keaton Batman was such a drastic change. The TV series & movie was so brightly colored and comical. These are so dark and serious. How do we go from Bat Shark Repellent to guns on the Batmobile?! There's absolutely no way Batman could possibly get any darker and grittier than Tim Burton. It was simply not possible. It's really funny how things change.
This is my favorite Batman movie, and imo the best one of them all. I liked Val Kilmer as a batman filler. I tolerated Clooney, and never cared for Christian Bale as Batman. He sounded ridiculous to me whenever he did the "Batman" voice. It irked me. But Michael Keaton was the surprise no one thought would work, because he was mostly known for his comedy. When he played a clever killer in a movie, he was totally believable. I forgot the name of it. Plus, how many chills in that car scene with Peter in Spiderman Homecoming? The man is a brilliant actor.
As disjointed as the plot of this movie is, I think that the performances by Danny Devito, Michelle Pfeifer Michael Keaton and Christopher Walken and their respective characters and their one liners and sets, costumes, cinematography and soundtrack and direction overall made up for it.
YES!!! Love this movie! I watched THE FLASH on Blu Ray last night, the movie could have been better if Ezra Miller hadn't screwed up with his arrests and criminal record, but it was great seeing Michael Keaton suit up as the Dark Knight one last time.
Batman Returns is my favorite Batman movie, and for my money, the best. The Nolan movies and The Batman strove for realism, and did make very good movie. But returns, I think, is the most true-to-form, most faithful to the spirit of the characters. While Penguin is portrayed here are a ruthless, calculating psychopath instead of a criminally-bent socialite mobster, he's still the type of over-the-top, criminally insane adversary that Batman has as a hallmark of his theme.
This is one of the top 3 superhero movie scores of all time. The other two are Elfman's Spider-Man (which is somewhat reminiscent of this) and of course Williams' Superman.
Best Batman movie ever! - Thing is theu really went like the comic, and gave it some style, and made it dark, as well as fun. - The new ones just go too "realalisitic" and "dark". It lost all the campness. - If you think these are mad, you need to watch the next ones too!
Considering how people hate Alien 3 and Terminator 3 are hated by so many people they probably will never win a poll which is sad because there are also quiet a lot people, like me, who love them. Most reactors skip them because people tell them to and never form their own opinion. Really hope you get to them some day ❤
Catwoman was absolutely everything in this movie Great reaction as always. Catch you for Falcon + Winter Soldier. Oh, and congrats on 20K suibs. Well deserved (and overdue) 🐈⬛
Kaiilelle your FACIAL EXPRESSIOn when the penguin said "id like to fill her Void" said it all . And when he was eating the fish was just disgustingly nasty
This one's definitely an acquired taste, but definitely one of my favorite Batman movies. Edit: Hold on. Gotham is about as goofy as this movie. I wonder what the show does different that appeals to you. 😅
For starters, the show is not nearly as flamboyant/circus-y as these films. The show leans much more into a "crime drama" genre, which is what drew my interest to watch it in the first place despite not having seen anything Batman prior to it. Ben McKenzie being cast as the main character was also a big selling point for me as I had just re-watched The OC right before Gotham S1 released so I was feeling a bit of Ben affection at the time. The show hooked me in because the story was drawn out over long seasons of 20+ episodes, so the show could really take its time and while there are some very outrageous moments in it, it's balanced heavily with more serious and emotional scenes, which I love.
Yes, that was the late Vincent Schiavelli that you spotted. He did play the subway ghost, and the leader of the Gypsies in Buffy, the teacher Mr. Vargas in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, and about 160 other roles. In addition, he wrote three travel/cook books.
Yes, it was the late Paul Reuben as Tucker Cobblepot. Also his wife, Esther Cobblepot was played by Diane Louise Salinger who was Simone in Pee Wee’s Big Adventure. Batman Returns is the reason why Tim Burton never got to direct any further Batman films. Warner Bros received thousands of complaints from parents about the violent & sexualised content of Batman Returns. McDonald's was criticized for its child-centered promotion and toys, and discontinued its Batman Returns campaign in September 1992. Warner Bros. decided to continue the series without Burton (described as "too dark and odd for them"), replacing him with Joel Schumacher. A rival studio executive said, "If you bring back Burton and Keaton, you're stuck with their vision. You can't expect Honey, I Shrunk the Batman" (referring to the 1989 science-fiction comedy, Honey, I Shrunk the Kids).
It was indeed Paul Rubens, and him as Oswald's father in Gotham was in homage to this. I love it. I know some people will say to avoid Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, but I think they're cheesy fun.
I'm happy to see 42 minut review is considered short as I was interested to see the reaction of this movie. I remember seeing this when I was 8 or 9? Penguin's ending scene sinking in the water looking all gross made an impression. Funny enough the projector shooting the movie I think broke and it either froze or stopped at that point so... fun times. This movie was pretty dark and I contribute that towards Tim Burton having more creative control. One of the reasons I know this is different compared to the 1989 movie. Along with what you mentioned too. The Animated Series came out around this time, but the Penguin stories imo never really improved until the Gotham series came out many years later. I really enjoyed the reaction though and doesnt't surprise me this wasn't your cup of tea. It's a movie..as you said. If this wasn't a Batman movie coming off the success of the 1989 movie, pretty sure this would've been panned more than it already was
Oh, I meant the 5 mins of discussion at the end is short - well, it's on the short side for my videos anyway! Yes, Penguin's story in the Gotham show is still my favourite (out of what I've seen/read anyway, which isn't *much* compared to others, but I can only go with what I know). Thanks for watching!
As I recall, "housecoat" was used by my grandmother to describe a simple neck to mid-calf covering she'd wear around the house, while doing chores. Her neighbor across the street did the same, often walking across the street to visit, wearing her housecoat. So I guess at some point the term was in common use, but the meanings diverged, and then women in the US at least stopped using them as work clothes.
Having multiple villains is not an easy thing to pull off and this movie is the perfect example of that, and was a mistake this franchise kept committing until it's burial in Batman & Robin. I always felt like The Penguin arc was the least interesting and the movie should have focused on Catwoman/Selina and her "relationship" with Batman/Bruce Wayne with Max as the B-plot.
(At this point I save my comments to a Notepad file...just in case the original video goes away...😉) What a shame you didn't like this. Not sure if I would still say this is true, but for many years this was far and away my favorite Batman movie. What's sort of interesting is that comics have changed so much is that you straight-up don't seem to know that the tone of this movie is what comics were like for decades. The areas where Raimi's Spider-Man and the Tim Burton Batman movies' tonal Venn diagrams overlap is a reasonable summary of where comics were for most of the 20th century. Admittedly, I'm not a comic book expert, but I'm pretty sure that it's not until you get into the big comic boon of the '90s that you start seeing the more serious and gritty comics. Tim Burton's first directing gig was Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, and so him having Paul Reubens play the Penguin's dad was just a tip of the hat to his friend. I believe his appearance on "Gotham" made Reubens one of, if not the only person to play the same role in two different iterations of the DC movie and TV universe. The name Max Schreck is taken from a German silent film actor, who is most famous for playing Nosferatu back in 1922. I think the way Schreck is costumed also sort of hints at Burton's interest in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, years before he would direct the second movie adaptation of the book in 2005. Pfeiffer really held the bird in her mouth for that one shot where it flies out of it. The actor you recognize from Ghost is named Vincent Schiavelli, and he's a pretty famous character actor, so you're likely to keep finding him in things. Funny enough, this was the first time (the 4K UHD might have helped) noticing the ducks as part of a defunct ride in the zoo when the camera first sweeps into it near the beginning, so you are correct. 🐈⬛
LOL good call on saving them. I hate when copyright flags many hours after I share the video in early access! 🫠 I understand these style of movies are matching the comics, I guess the me of today has just grown too accustomed to the more serious tone of films and it's what I enjoy the most right now. But I appreciate all the effort and creativity that went into these and there are always good things I can pick out and enjoy. Thanks for all the info! 😊
This film had a pretty good video game for the SNES, by the way. A side-scrolling beat em up where you fight all the different members of Penguin's gang. It also had a Batmobile stage, and the giant duck was one of the bosses.
New to your channel, love the reaction 🙂Don't worry, you're not the only one who didn't like it. Warner Bros. HATED it. They wanted to sell Happy Meals and toys. Burton gave them a gothic, psychotic, nightmare 😂 I LOVE Batman Returns. Michelle Pfieffer is without doubt THE definitive Catwoman (yes, better then Julie Newmar and Eartha Kitt, fight me 😆). DeVito is great as Penguin (though greatly changed from his comic book version), and Keaton IS Batman. The thing that Burton's films did that make them the best adaptation of Batman, imo, is that he actually showed GOTHAM as it should be, gothic and twisted. His stories also lean into a more comic book style, especially the more surreal 2nd one. Nolan's are AMAZING films yes, but Burton's have a magic that Nolan's and more modern adaptations don't.🙂
Favorite Batman especially over the Dark Knight trilogy. Keaton Batman, I just feel the emptiness of his own life, waiting at home, driving around at night Vs. Bale who can't wait to retire. Smh lol The action. The aggressive humor which ss a kid I found funny. Penguin getting people to cry when he died. 😭❤️
"Max Schreck" is also the name of a real-life German actor who played the vampire in the silent film Nosferatu. I'm guessing the film wanted to emphasize what a blood sucker Christopher Walken's character is :)
I totally agree with you about the first Batman movie being way better. I saw this movie in theaters when it came out, and I was pretty disappointed with it. 🦇🐈
Originally Christopher Walken’s role was supposed to be done by Billy Dee Williams/ Harvey Dent and Michelle was supposed to make him become Two-Face at the end but Tim couldn’t get Billy back for the movie. He created the Max Shrek character instead for this movie.
Yep, you nailed it. Not much of a Bruce Wayne/Batman movie as it is Penguin and Catwoman. Still fun but not as good as the first. I remember we had all the cups and happy meal toys from this movie when it came out..
I think all the pre-Nolan sequels suffered from having 2 villains. They had to spend so much time cramming in their origin stories it left little time for an interesting plot.
This film was originally going to been an origin story for Two-Face as well. He was supposed to be the one who pushed Selina out the window, and when he got electrocuted at the end, he would have been hideously scarred instead of killed, to set up the 3rd film. The writers ultimately ended up replacing Harvey with the Max Shreck character.
That has actually been proven false. I know it's a movie but that would be seriously stretching it if he didn't get fully charred. Look up the scripts online for confirmation. There are two different ones. The writer has also said that was never thought of. What was confirmed though was that Shreck was originally going to be related to Penguin and it was a rich vs poor theme. Selina was originally going to stay dead but test audiences liked her performance so much so they went all in on the 9 lives.
My favorite Christmas movie glad you enjoyed it. The fan theory and its only a theory there never has been official confirmation but the couple the Cobblepots meet on their way to dump their son into the river is Thomas and Martha Wayne which meant the parents of both Batman and Penguin met long ago before their sons met years later. Again just speculation. All in all a nice dark but campy movie you expect from Burton.
Tim Burton wanted Burgess Meredith, the original Penguin from the Adam West Batman series but his health was failing so Paul Ruebens or Pee Wee Herman played Oswald’s father in the movie. Burgess is famous for Mickey from the Rocky movies and he played Amon in Clash of Titans.
I feel the different eras of Batman either target kids or adults. Tim Burton managed to do both with this movie since it's wacky and childish and at the same time dark and violent.
I'm so relieved you weren't blown away by this one. In my opinion, it's by far the most overrated Batman movie. I know you liked Pfeiffer as Catwoman, but the character was ridiculous. I mean, she purred, meowed, crawled on all fours, licked herself clean, and oh yeah, had NINE LIVES! Ugh. Yes, she looked fantastic. I feel like Burton wanted to make a super dark version of the stupid Adam West show, and on that score, he certainly succeeded.
It's okay I grew up in new England we referred to Toboggans as long narrow sleds. I move to Louisiana and heard people referring to the caps on their heads to keep their ears warm as toboggans I commented about it and a guy laughed and said, "you must be a Yankee" Lol and yes, we are all friend's still to this day. 😄
My favorite Batman movie, second favorite superhero movie after the original 2002 Spider-Man, and 6th favorite movie overall. It has my favorite film score, with Catwoman's theme being my favorite musical composition of all time. It's not really a great adaptation of Batman (and nothing beats the original Animated Series in that respect), but this may be one of if not the best *movies* that just happens to have Batman in it. Finally, this, Edward Scissorhands, and Nightmare Before Christmas (what I like to call the "Christmas Trilogy") are easily the best works in both Tim Burton's and Danny Elfman's careers.
🦇Normally, I'd be right there with you on this movie on it's plot being thin and all not that interesting. But, you also said something else that I agree with in that Michelle Pfeiffer just at up her scenes. Add to that I also think Danny DeVito and Christopher Walken did as well. So, I still like this movie today because, while I still think the plot could've been done better, I'm here for the actors performances and various one-liners. I enjoy this movie more if I turn off my brain. 🦇
It's a dark, fetishistic, atmospheric cinematic fever dream with little narrative cohesion. That's what it is, that's what it wants to be, and those who enjoy it enjoy it just for that. (Meaning that those who dislike it for those reasons absolutely have a point.)
I like returns better because of the characters. I dont realy care about the story of the first one either. The score is a vibe as well. That makes it so I don't need a realy solid story. Overall I like begins and dark knight a smidge better because it has a story on top of every thing else. i couldn't get into Gotham. I stopped in season 2.
the tall thin clown if didn't know he is Doug Jones you wont recognise him as he is not known for being himself, but you will likely have seen his characters in many tv and movies from Hocus Pocus, Hellboy, Fantastic 4, Star Trek Discovery and Buffy
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
Are you a Catwoman stan 🐈⬛ or a Penguin fan? 🐧 Let me know below and thanks for watching! For a complete list of all of my reactions and links to socials and more, visit my website: kaiielle.com. Suggest movies and TV series to me here: forms.gle/XZVvZhfhwFzsDpRU9 And come join my Discord server: discord.gg/4KQXhXJQVU Cheers! ✌
My favorite Catwoman. She's at the tippy top of the crazy/hot sliding scale 😅
Both. I think people of my generation who lived with the Adam West Batman (which was light-hearted and kid-friendly) until 1989 are reminded of the Adam West series when you have the themed villains (Jack Nicholson had his crew, and Danny DeVito had his themed crew). We considered the Tim Burton films to be dark because of how much the Adam West version was still in popular culture. I get why people who have Matt Reeves and Christopher Nolan in their lives when they first watch these don't feel the same.
Michelle Pfeiffer's portrayal of Catwoman is my favorite out of any incarnation. Between her latex outfit, her makeup and the completely different tones of voice for the two sides of the same character are so purrfect. (Sorry, but I had to do a cat pun).
My absolute favourite Batman. It has the best Penguin & Catwoman performances on screen, it has the best set design of any Batman movie, plus it has that perfect balance of camp and darkness.
I like how Bruce and Selina were the only ones who weren't wearing a mask at the masquerade ball
I honestly didn't even realize that 🤣
That's because Batman and Catwoman are their true selves, while Bruce and Selina are the "masks" they wear around other people.
They tried to make Michelle Pfeiffer look frumpy at the beginning and she still looked gorgeous.
There’s something fun and whimsical about these movies that the new ones lack. A kind of energy that harkens back to the comics and tv shows of the 80s and 90s before the obsession with realistic interpretations and grittiness. I like both but really appreciate these older movies for what they are.
Totally. It's interesting seeing the changes in cinema in general through the decades.
17:47 - Fun fact - The "whip mannequin beheading" scene was not only done in one take, but on the first take. Michelle Pfeiffer extensively trained with the whip and in the BTS, director Tim Burton yells "cut" right afterwards to which applause from the crew erupts as they appear on screen to congratulate her.
That's so fun!! I love that for her.
The most underrated Batman movie ever, love the style, performances, and atmosphere of this movie, plus it's endlessly quotable
underrated where?? First two Batman movies with Keaton are the most famous, loved and held in the highest regard. it's certainly not underrated...
@@mayaamis Batman Returns more famous than The Dark Knight?
🦇🐈⬛🐧 Imagine, if you will, the summer of 1992. My new local theater was about to be christened with an 8 PM screening of Batman Returns. The line was out the door with people excited. Across the street, the local McDonalds had commemorative cups and Frisbee lids and the promise of more merchandise to come to cash in on the second wave of Bat-mania.
And then the movie opened.
Not lying, McDonalds pulled all the merchandise as fast as they absolutely could because they objected to the content. Specifically the darker tone, violence and the sex jokes. Lots and lots of sex jokes.
So, yeah, compared to the first movie, this is such a drastic change in tone. Batman looks… well.. impotent. Penguin yo-yos between monster and the horniest man in the world. But at least we got a pretty defining version of Catwoman! And three months later, got the animated series which is always worth celebrating. I agree, this is not a good Batman movie. It’s barely a good movie except for the character studies and a few of the one liners (“You have kind of a dark side, Selina.” “No darker than yours.”), but still worth a watch. Once.
And it gets better from here! Right?
@mattperiolat this is a good movie you just don't want to admit it......
Batman (1989) and Batman Returns (1992) were comics made into movies. From the way Gotham looks, the stories and the characters. With some tropes from the 80's tropes.
Which makes them very different to the later ones.
Both were an upgrade to the Batman series from 1966-1968. Which I hear had it's own charm.
I saw this film when I was about 13/14, I loved it. however seeing it through your eyes I realise how adult it was and ridiculous. But I do remember that it was just about the characters and the performances. Yes, Michelle Pfeffer was the reason why everyone loved it back in the early 90s. Did not realise how much double entendre was in it.
Great reaction. This has been my favorite Batman movie since I was a kid, but I love that you're honest about your feelings about the movies you watch. It's okay that this wasn't your cup of tea, it's a remarkably strange film. Maybe one of the strangest big-budget releases of the 90s.
Since you talked a fair bit in the Batman 89 reaction about loving Billy Dee Williams, there's a fascinating behind the scenes story about why he's not in this one. Harvey Dent was actually one of the primary antagonists in the original script -- HE was to be the corrupt public official who Bruce sparred with, who partnered with Cobblepot, and who pushed his secretary Selina Kyle out a high-rise window. In the climax, Selina's shocking "kiss" was to burn half his face, leaving him ready to be full-on Two Face for the next movie.
So what happened, and where did Max Schrek come from? Basically, Warner Bros decided to get super racist. They didn't want a black co-lead. They literally bought Williams out of his contract -- paid his full acting salary -- to get him to NOT be in the movie, and forced Burton and his writers to change the script. They changed as little as possible, other than the name and his being a business magnate instead of a politician, but for the most part kept the role and dialogue exactly the same.
Listen to the Batman Returns episode of the fantastic podcast Blank Check with Griffin & David if you want to hear the full details, but that's the gist. As much as I love Christopher Walken, I feel like this could've been an even better movie if they'd stuck with the original plan.
Really did not know this. Not the WB is super racist bit but the buying Williams contract out. So sad but nothing really changes.
25:26 your reaction, is exactly the same as every teenage boy who saw this the first time.
She is THEE definition for cat woman forever 🤌🏻
That is not only Paul Rubens as Penguin's father, but also Diane Salinger as Penguin's mother, she played Simone in _Pee-wee's Big Adventure_
I used to dislike this movie, but after multiple viewings, it grew on me. Something kept me coming back and thinking, "did I really not like this?" and now, depending on the day, I have a hard time figuring out which of the two Burton movies I liked more. Michelle's Catwoman definitely makes the decision much harder. Her descent is just amazing to watch, and her physical work is next level. Anyone willing to put a live bird in their mouth for a scene gets props for dedication. I love her arc in particular, and overall I love Burton's spin on Penguin in this. Thematically, he is very close to his comic counterpart, (heir to the Cobblepot estate, but cast down from high society and turning to crime in order to regain what he believes should be his rightful place) but very different in execution which sets him apart from his origins and paints him more as an homage to Frankenstein's monster.
The story to this one is far more subdued and less clear-cut than the original, which might be a knock against it for some, but there are a lot of little details that flesh it out when you notice them. And the plot centers a lot around Gotham's inner-city politics and how the corruption from the rich is filtering down to the rest of the city as Shreck puppeteers officials to his own ends. Very fitting for the setting. Though I do like how they even gave him one redeeming quality in that he cares very much for his own son, Chip, and does everything he does for his sake, underhanded as it is. It even parallel's with Penguin's story, in that his parents threw him away, while Max offers up his own life for his son. "Tragic irony, or poetic justice? You tell me."
There's a lot to like here, and I've come around on this movie since my first viewing all those years ago. One day I hope it'll hit you the same way. Maybe not, but I didn't think I'd find myself going back to it so often back then either.
"This is just so weird..."
I kinda love that Batman is hardly in it and we focus mainly on the weirdo villains. Revenant Catwoman and sewer monster Penguin are very interesting takes on the characters and I appreciate that the movie takes the time to explore them.
I am eternally sad we never got the Burton Batman Forever, which would have featured Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face and Robin Williams as Riddler.
Still, definitely watch Batman Forever, but be aware it is tonally different from the Burtons. Schumacher is a fan of the Adam West Batman (the 1966 Batman movie is very funny) and it shows in his 2 Batman entries.
again I did not know the Dee Williams or Robin Williams were meant to play those roles I am starting to wonder if I am actually a film buff now hmm...
Out of all the Batman movies, I like this one the most. I thought the first one tried to please a certain kind of crowd, but missed a bit. Batman Returns demonstrates a confidence in Tim Burton's handling of the material. I liked the movie a lot more than I thought I would.
21:13 - Michelle Pfeiffer said once in an interview that she really had to hold a live little bird in her mouth for this scene.
30:14 I love how Bruce and Selina aren't wearing masks but everyone else is showing how these alter egos are the masks they wear to hide what feels like their true identities as Batman and Catwoman. It's a nice subtle detail.
Tim Burton himself actually said he prefers Batman Returns over 1989. He felt the first was a bit dull and boring at times and not really what he truly wanted for his Batman movie. (He and his wife even wrote a treatment in 1985 that's very different yet has similarities to Returns like Joker being the Mayor, and set in the winter. And a scarier sounding Joker described as being a new incarnation of Satan and having spiked up hair like Beetlejuice before he even did that film.)
Batman Return's screenwriter, Wesley Strick, also revealed that Tim Burton complained about making superhero movies and compared them to Chinese water torture. That's when he asked Burton "If you hate it so much, why are you doing the sequel?" And he told him "Because I think I learned a lot during the first Batman movie and I want a second movie where I can put to use everything I learned." And to basically undo the mistakes he thought he made with the 1989 film considering that it was also a studio interfered movie. Burton originally wanted Brad Dourif as Joker but WB always wanted Jack Nicholson as a more profitable actor, Sean Young was supposed to play Vicki Vale and shot a scene where she rode on a horse with Bruce but fell off the horse and had to be replaced, the producer wanted Prince for the pop songs, give Batman Nike shoes, have him fight a ninja as Joker's goon, and change the climax with the church chase to make it feel like Phantom of the Opera. You can also see why in Batman Returns, everything is SO different like Gotham, the Batcave, the gadgets, the batsuit, and no Vicki or Knox because he couldn't stand them. It was so different from the first film that Burton jokingly said "We might as well just call it 'Batman' again."
For a while, he didn't want to come back considering the first film was his first major studio movie and didn't want to go through it immediately after and did Edward Scissorshands. The writer for the original did wrote an early script titled Batman II with Vicki coming back, Penguin and Catwoman closer to the comics and wanted to steal hidden treasure under Wayne Manor, Robin was included as a homless child, many of the same sets were to return, snd they even expanded Jack Napier's background as to why he killed Bruce's parents as he was hired by a mob killing the riches familes of Gotham and the treasure being linked it. It was very much what people expected this seauel to be. But Burton didn't like it, he felt it was more of the same movie and had too much plot. WB then allowed him to have the creative freedom to do whatever he wanted. Meaning, he could his own writers, he didn't have to listen to the studio's notes like including Robin, he could have his own pop songs, and didn't need to use the same sets. WB got what they wanted of making the sequel a Tim Burton movie. But because of that, kids and parents were startled by the film's dark twisted tone, the disgusting Penguin and downbeat ending compared to the first film's. WB was left exactly how Burton felt before making the second film, feeling as long as Batman was on the poster, would it even matter who directed the movie(?)
When Penguin says he wants to learn his real name and you say, "Cobblepot", the subtitles heard that as "bubble butt". Made me laugh. 😄
OMG amazing hahaha
there will never be a Catwoman as epic and gorgeous as Michelle! EVER! her sexy but unhinged performance was perfect! I was obsessed with her as a kid, wanted to be Catwoman at every Halloween lol
Tim Burton had directed Paul Reubens in Pee Wee's Big Adventure back in 1985. Batman Returns was filmed shortly after Reubens' arrest for indecent exposure in an adult theater and Burton must have been trying to help him get back into the swing of things.
This movie came out the summer I turned 13. I ended up seeing it in theaters four times. It was really my proper introduction to Batman. And it was completely overtaken in my fandom just a few months later when Batman the Animated Series started airing. Kevin Conroy is my Batman. Mark Hamill is my Joker. That series still holds up as a classic.
"Wow, Batman has nice handwriting..."
And bat-stationary. Batman's bat-themed knicknacks is a callback to the Adam West show, where everything was bat-this and bat-that. And I mean everything. Bat-shark repellant 😅
I think of the two Tim Burton Batman films as transitional pieces - a bridge between the Adam West TV show and the Nolan trilogy. They have a darkness of tone (supposedly inspired by the graphic novel The Dark Knight Returns) which foreshadows the Nolan films, but also moments of absurd, colourful campiness (the Joker in the museum, Penguin's rubber duck etc) which would not have been out of place in the 1966 show. Great in their day for exorcising the view of Batman as a franchise purely for kids, but since eclipsed by Nolan's additions to the franchise.
I knew you would love Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman...which wasn't going out on a limb too much.
21:43 That was a fairly big criticism a lot of people had with both of Tim Burton's Batman movies. They seemed more focused on the villain characters and Bruce/Batman is just...there. He's the title character but he's treated like the least interesting character and gets the least development.
Yeah, we had to wait until Mask of the Phantasm to get a movie that focused on Batman/Bruce Wayne. Batman Begins took a lot of inspiration from that animated movie too.
1989 Batman is still my favourite live action comic book adaptation ever but Barman Returns is pretty good too. It feels much more 'burtonish' (the same thing with the Dark Knight where you can see more Nolan's style than in the Batman Begins). And Michael Keaton is my favourite live action Batman, a little bit psycho, a little bit creepy, just perfect.
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but Christopher Walkens charcter is named Max Schreck as a nod to the german actor of the same name who is most famous for playing Count Orlok in Nosferatu (1922).
Yep... The ogre Shrek was less well known in 1993 (the first Shrek film came out in 2001 but the book it was based on was released in 1990 - Shrek was named after the Yiddish word for "fear", derived from Shreck, the German word for "fear"... making Max Shreck's name - both the actor's name and the character's name here - all the more appropriate).
Michelle Pfeiffer was a checker at the only grocery store (at the time) in the town where I grew up. I met her younger sister Dedee (Dorothy) Pfeiffer July 1st. She was super sweet and pretty like her sister.
I love the way the subtitles make her ask, "How many straight cats are there in Gotham?"
Has Kaiielle seen BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES? If not, we got to get to see it. 30yrs later it still holds up, maybe even better.
I haven't, but I'd like to one day when I feel like I'm ready to make the commitment! 😊
@kaiielle You should at least watch the Mask of the Phantasm animated movie. It was released theatrically in 1993, and you don't need to have watched the tv show first. It's a standalone story, and one of the best Batman films ever made.
I'm actually mostly with you on this one. I knew absolutely nothing about Batman through most of my childhood. My dad was a Marvel Comics collector, so I saw lots of Marvel related stuff, but not much DC. My very first experience with Batman was "The Dark Knight" (I wasn't aware there was a movie before it at the time in the Nolan trilogy). Heath Ledger's Joker was so epic and terrifying, and the whole vibe was so cool, I was hooked immediately, but on the Joker, not so much Batman himself. I wanted more Joker. I went from there to the Animated Series, caught up on the rest of the Nolan Trilogy, then went back to these old movies. And I'm sorry to the fans who grew up with these and get nostalgic about them, but these just... if the Nolan Batman movies are your introduction, these just aren't that good. I mean... Heath Ledger's Joker is menacing and intelligent, always one step ahead. Nicholson's Joker was just a clown. 😉
Seriously though, what I do like about these old movies is that the city looks much more gothic and atmospheric. That's a positive from these. But the characters and the general plots are just cartoonish, and not in the cool "Batman the Animated Series" way, but in the "This is just ridiculous" way. Now, I liked Michelle Pfieffer as Catwoman. Sexy and fun. Best part of the movie by a mile. I like Michael Keaton as an actor. His Batman/Bruce Wayne is okay. But as far as these old movies go, after starting with Nolan, they just don't do anything for me. If I had to give them star ratings (the ones you've seen so far only, of course), I'd give the first one three stars, and this one two (and without Michelle's Catwoman, this would be a one-star). It's just my opinion on them. For the people who like them, I'm happy. If this Batman is their favorite iteration, that's awesome. It's just not for me. ✌🤓
This is my Batman. We owned it on VHS and I watched it over and over as a 9 year old. Watching it as an adult I have such a better appreciation of it.
I definitely didn't get some of the jokes when I was a kid. Especially the lines during the masquerade ball ("semi-hard feelings", etc...). :D
We call it a housecoat here too. Love the penguin. Congrats on the 20k 🎉
Michelle Pfeiffer posted a video on her Instagram a while ago showing she still knows how to use that whip
I feel like once you learn, it never leaves you! Kind of like riding a bike.
It's kind of funny seeing someone who didn't know these movies when they were new find them goofy.😅
The whole thing especially about the first movie was that it was considered a very dark and gritty adaptation.
People had been very much used to the 60s live action show (which is fantastic but essentially a comedy adventure show) and many of the comic books before the 80s also being very silly.
Batman had been dark in the 40s, very silly in the 50s and 60s before that was toned down again in the 70s... but only in the 80s was Batman getting really dark, and this movie was to pay tribute to that trend.
So people who were not avid comic readers were kind of puzzled why a Batman movie was so dark and serious. Me as a kid didn't like it all that much either. As I got older I grew to appreciate it more.
Apparently that doesn't translate to today anymore.😅
Batman Returns was more cartoonish in some ways but also got trouble for violence and horrifying imagery.
Neither of the Tim Burton Batman movies were meant as kids movies or anything.😁
I get why they seem so strange if you started with the Dark Knight trilogy.
Personally I would only put the Dark Knight above the Burton movies. Batman Begins I found very lackluster and dull, and DK Rises is good but a bit of an overblown mess imo.
I think a big part is Christopher Nolan's wish for realism. Specifically Gotham City lacks any character in that trilogy imo, it looks like any generic city. When I ride the tram to work every day much of it looks like it might as well be in Nolan's Gotham. Burton's Gotham is more artistic and moody, instantly recognizable. Characters like Batman fit there, they don't feel so misplaced like in Nolan's everyday enviroment.
Also... Danny Elfman's music is great. I can never remember anything Hans Zimmer composed. But Elfman's Batman theme is instantly recognizable like John Williams' Superman (and Star Wars and Indiana Jones) themes. I miss those epic hero themes.
So overall Batman 89 and Batman Returns are my second and third favorite Batman movies.
It is really funny how looking back, going from the Adam West Batman to the Michael Keaton Batman was such a drastic change.
The TV series & movie was so brightly colored and comical. These are so dark and serious. How do we go from Bat Shark Repellent to guns on the Batmobile?!
There's absolutely no way Batman could possibly get any darker and grittier than Tim Burton. It was simply not possible.
It's really funny how things change.
This is my favorite Batman movie, and imo the best one of them all.
I liked Val Kilmer as a batman filler.
I tolerated Clooney, and never cared for Christian Bale as Batman. He sounded ridiculous to me whenever he did the "Batman" voice. It irked me.
But Michael Keaton was the surprise no one thought would work, because he was mostly known for his comedy.
When he played a clever killer in a movie, he was totally believable. I forgot the name of it.
Plus, how many chills in that car scene with Peter in Spiderman Homecoming? The man is a brilliant actor.
I *KNEW* that Michelle Pfieffer's Cat Woman would become Kaiielle's spirit animal!!! 😼😼😼
As disjointed as the plot of this movie is, I think that the performances by Danny Devito, Michelle Pfeifer Michael Keaton and Christopher Walken and their respective characters and their one liners and sets, costumes, cinematography and soundtrack and direction overall made up for it.
YES!!!
Love this movie!
I watched THE FLASH on Blu Ray last night, the movie could have been better if Ezra Miller hadn't screwed up with his arrests and criminal record, but it was great seeing Michael Keaton suit up as the Dark Knight one last time.
Batman Returns is my favorite Batman movie, and for my money, the best. The Nolan movies and The Batman strove for realism, and did make very good movie. But returns, I think, is the most true-to-form, most faithful to the spirit of the characters. While Penguin is portrayed here are a ruthless, calculating psychopath instead of a criminally-bent socialite mobster, he's still the type of over-the-top, criminally insane adversary that Batman has as a hallmark of his theme.
Shoutout to Oswald for the French Flipper Trick. 🖖🏾
Great reaction! This is my favourite Batman movie. As much as i love the Penguin here, Catwoman is by far my favourite.
AWESOME score composed by Danny Elfman. My Xmas movie.
This is one of the top 3 superhero movie scores of all time. The other two are Elfman's Spider-Man (which is somewhat reminiscent of this) and of course Williams' Superman.
Mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it...
Best Batman movie ever! - Thing is theu really went like the comic, and gave it some style, and made it dark, as well as fun. - The new ones just go too "realalisitic" and "dark". It lost all the campness. - If you think these are mad, you need to watch the next ones too!
Considering how people hate Alien 3 and Terminator 3 are hated by so many people they probably will never win a poll which is sad because there are also quiet a lot people, like me, who love them. Most reactors skip them because people tell them to and never form their own opinion. Really hope you get to them some day ❤
Catwoman was absolutely everything in this movie
Great reaction as always. Catch you for Falcon + Winter Soldier. Oh, and congrats on 20K suibs. Well deserved (and overdue) 🐈⬛
Thanks so much! 😊
Kaiilelle your FACIAL EXPRESSIOn when the penguin said "id like to fill her Void" said it all . And when he was eating the fish was just disgustingly nasty
This one's definitely an acquired taste, but definitely one of my favorite Batman movies.
Edit: Hold on. Gotham is about as goofy as this movie. I wonder what the show does different that appeals to you. 😅
For starters, the show is not nearly as flamboyant/circus-y as these films. The show leans much more into a "crime drama" genre, which is what drew my interest to watch it in the first place despite not having seen anything Batman prior to it. Ben McKenzie being cast as the main character was also a big selling point for me as I had just re-watched The OC right before Gotham S1 released so I was feeling a bit of Ben affection at the time. The show hooked me in because the story was drawn out over long seasons of 20+ episodes, so the show could really take its time and while there are some very outrageous moments in it, it's balanced heavily with more serious and emotional scenes, which I love.
Now I'm. just picturing Cory Michael Smith's Penguin trying to bite someone's nose off 😆
Robin Lord Taylor, you mean! But honestly, same 🤣
@@kaiielleOh yeah, got Penguin and Nygma's actors mixed up for a second there!
Yes, that was the late Vincent Schiavelli that you spotted. He did play the subway ghost, and the leader of the Gypsies in Buffy, the teacher Mr. Vargas in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, and about 160 other roles. In addition, he wrote three travel/cook books.
This was considered dark for the time lmao
It's still dark.
@@georgeizcazu152 certain parts yes.
Compared to the Adam West show, it certainly is.
Sure was.
Danny de vito as penguin for me is 1 of the most memorable portayals of any batman's rogue gallery on the movies.
Yes, it was the late Paul Reuben as Tucker Cobblepot. Also his wife, Esther Cobblepot was played by Diane Louise Salinger who was Simone in Pee Wee’s Big Adventure.
Batman Returns is the reason why Tim Burton never got to direct any further Batman films.
Warner Bros received thousands of complaints from parents about the violent & sexualised content of Batman Returns.
McDonald's was criticized for its child-centered promotion and toys, and discontinued its Batman Returns campaign in September 1992.
Warner Bros. decided to continue the series without Burton (described as "too dark and odd for them"), replacing him with Joel Schumacher. A rival studio executive said, "If you bring back Burton and Keaton, you're stuck with their vision. You can't expect Honey, I Shrunk the Batman" (referring to the 1989 science-fiction comedy, Honey, I Shrunk the Kids).
It was indeed Paul Rubens, and him as Oswald's father in Gotham was in homage to this. I love it. I know some people will say to avoid Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, but I think they're cheesy fun.
I'm happy to see 42 minut review is considered short as I was interested to see the reaction of this movie. I remember seeing this when I was 8 or 9? Penguin's ending scene sinking in the water looking all gross made an impression. Funny enough the projector shooting the movie I think broke and it either froze or stopped at that point so... fun times. This movie was pretty dark and I contribute that towards Tim Burton having more creative control. One of the reasons I know this is different compared to the 1989 movie. Along with what you mentioned too. The Animated Series came out around this time, but the Penguin stories imo never really improved until the Gotham series came out many years later. I really enjoyed the reaction though and doesnt't surprise me this wasn't your cup of tea. It's a movie..as you said. If this wasn't a Batman movie coming off the success of the 1989 movie, pretty sure this would've been panned more than it already was
Oh, I meant the 5 mins of discussion at the end is short - well, it's on the short side for my videos anyway! Yes, Penguin's story in the Gotham show is still my favourite (out of what I've seen/read anyway, which isn't *much* compared to others, but I can only go with what I know). Thanks for watching!
As I recall, "housecoat" was used by my grandmother to describe a simple neck to mid-calf covering she'd wear around the house, while doing chores. Her neighbor across the street did the same, often walking across the street to visit, wearing her housecoat. So I guess at some point the term was in common use, but the meanings diverged, and then women in the US at least stopped using them as work clothes.
Having multiple villains is not an easy thing to pull off and this movie is the perfect example of that, and was a mistake this franchise kept committing until it's burial in Batman & Robin. I always felt like The Penguin arc was the least interesting and the movie should have focused on Catwoman/Selina and her "relationship" with Batman/Bruce Wayne with Max as the B-plot.
Fun Fact: Danny DeVito was so committed to the role that he actually bit into a real fish.
This movie is a Christmas movie no doubt.
2:45 - That is definitely Paul Reubens AKA PeeWee Herman, dear Kaiielle!! ❤️
In Scotland we also call it a house coat.
(At this point I save my comments to a Notepad file...just in case the original video goes away...😉)
What a shame you didn't like this. Not sure if I would still say this is true, but for many years this was far and away my favorite Batman movie. What's sort of interesting is that comics have changed so much is that you straight-up don't seem to know that the tone of this movie is what comics were like for decades. The areas where Raimi's Spider-Man and the Tim Burton Batman movies' tonal Venn diagrams overlap is a reasonable summary of where comics were for most of the 20th century. Admittedly, I'm not a comic book expert, but I'm pretty sure that it's not until you get into the big comic boon of the '90s that you start seeing the more serious and gritty comics.
Tim Burton's first directing gig was Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, and so him having Paul Reubens play the Penguin's dad was just a tip of the hat to his friend. I believe his appearance on "Gotham" made Reubens one of, if not the only person to play the same role in two different iterations of the DC movie and TV universe.
The name Max Schreck is taken from a German silent film actor, who is most famous for playing Nosferatu back in 1922. I think the way Schreck is costumed also sort of hints at Burton's interest in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, years before he would direct the second movie adaptation of the book in 2005.
Pfeiffer really held the bird in her mouth for that one shot where it flies out of it.
The actor you recognize from Ghost is named Vincent Schiavelli, and he's a pretty famous character actor, so you're likely to keep finding him in things.
Funny enough, this was the first time (the 4K UHD might have helped) noticing the ducks as part of a defunct ride in the zoo when the camera first sweeps into it near the beginning, so you are correct. 🐈⬛
LOL good call on saving them. I hate when copyright flags many hours after I share the video in early access! 🫠
I understand these style of movies are matching the comics, I guess the me of today has just grown too accustomed to the more serious tone of films and it's what I enjoy the most right now. But I appreciate all the effort and creativity that went into these and there are always good things I can pick out and enjoy.
Thanks for all the info! 😊
The actress who played Penguin's mother also played Simone in Pee-wee's Big Adventure.
This film had a pretty good video game for the SNES, by the way. A side-scrolling beat em up where you fight all the different members of Penguin's gang. It also had a Batmobile stage, and the giant duck was one of the bosses.
New to your channel, love the reaction 🙂Don't worry, you're not the only one who didn't like it. Warner Bros. HATED it. They wanted to sell Happy Meals and toys. Burton gave them a gothic, psychotic, nightmare 😂 I LOVE Batman Returns. Michelle Pfieffer is without doubt THE definitive Catwoman (yes, better then Julie Newmar and Eartha Kitt, fight me 😆). DeVito is great as Penguin (though greatly changed from his comic book version), and Keaton IS Batman. The thing that Burton's films did that make them the best adaptation of Batman, imo, is that he actually showed GOTHAM as it should be, gothic and twisted. His stories also lean into a more comic book style, especially the more surreal 2nd one. Nolan's are AMAZING films yes, but Burton's have a magic that Nolan's and more modern adaptations don't.🙂
Favorite Batman especially over the Dark Knight trilogy. Keaton Batman, I just feel the emptiness of his own life, waiting at home, driving around at night Vs. Bale who can't wait to retire. Smh lol
The action. The aggressive humor which ss a kid I found funny. Penguin getting people to cry when he died. 😭❤️
"Max Schreck" is also the name of a real-life German actor who played the vampire in the silent film Nosferatu. I'm guessing the film wanted to emphasize what a blood sucker Christopher Walken's character is :)
I didn't know 'housecoat' was a Canadian thing. My mother called it a housecoat, therefore, I call it a housecoat. We're Texan.
YESSSS
We call it a housecoat in Scotland too lol 🏴👍🏻.
15:30 - I often wonder what Danny DeVito was really eating there.
I totally agree with you about the first Batman movie being way better. I saw this movie in theaters when it came out, and I was pretty disappointed with it. 🦇🐈
Originally Christopher Walken’s role was supposed to be done by Billy Dee Williams/ Harvey Dent and Michelle was supposed to make him become Two-Face at the end but Tim couldn’t get Billy back for the movie. He created the Max Shrek character instead for this movie.
Yep, you nailed it. Not much of a Bruce Wayne/Batman movie as it is Penguin and Catwoman. Still fun but not as good as the first. I remember we had all the cups and happy meal toys from this movie when it came out..
I was 12 when Michelle Pfeiffer put on the Catwoman outfit. Yeah, puberty hit me like a MAC truck!
😂😂😂😂
Yep, that was Paul Rubens
Rest in Peace to the legend. 🙏
My first time seeing Michelle Pfeiffer was in The Witches of Eastwick such a good movie
I think all the pre-Nolan sequels suffered from having 2 villains. They had to spend so much time cramming in their origin stories it left little time for an interesting plot.
This film was originally going to been an origin story for Two-Face as well. He was supposed to be the one who pushed Selina out the window, and when he got electrocuted at the end, he would have been hideously scarred instead of killed, to set up the 3rd film. The writers ultimately ended up replacing Harvey with the Max Shreck character.
@Rocket1377 Oh really, that's super interesting!
That has actually been proven false. I know it's a movie but that would be seriously stretching it if he didn't get fully charred. Look up the scripts online for confirmation. There are two different ones. The writer has also said that was never thought of. What was confirmed though was that Shreck was originally going to be related to Penguin and it was a rich vs poor theme. Selina was originally going to stay dead but test audiences liked her performance so much so they went all in on the 9 lives.
My favorite Christmas movie glad you enjoyed it. The fan theory and its only a theory there never has been official confirmation but the couple the Cobblepots meet on their way to dump their son into the river is Thomas and Martha Wayne which meant the parents of both Batman and Penguin met long ago before their sons met years later. Again just speculation. All in all a nice dark but campy movie you expect from Burton.
Tim Burton wanted Burgess Meredith, the original Penguin from the Adam West Batman series but his health was failing so Paul Ruebens or Pee Wee Herman played Oswald’s father in the movie. Burgess is famous for Mickey from the Rocky movies and he played Amon in Clash of Titans.
I feel the different eras of Batman either target kids or adults. Tim Burton managed to do both with this movie since it's wacky and childish and at the same time dark and violent.
I'm so relieved you weren't blown away by this one. In my opinion, it's by far the most overrated Batman movie. I know you liked Pfeiffer as Catwoman, but the character was ridiculous. I mean, she purred, meowed, crawled on all fours, licked herself clean, and oh yeah, had NINE LIVES! Ugh. Yes, she looked fantastic. I feel like Burton wanted to make a super dark version of the stupid Adam West show, and on that score, he certainly succeeded.
Oh, and great reaction! :)
It's okay I grew up in new England we referred to Toboggans as long narrow sleds. I move to Louisiana and heard people referring to the caps on their heads to keep their ears warm as toboggans I commented about it and a guy laughed and said, "you must be a Yankee" Lol and yes, we are all friend's still to this day. 😄
Yes Peewee played Penguin's father
My favorite Batman movie by far.
My favorite Batman movie, second favorite superhero movie after the original 2002 Spider-Man, and 6th favorite movie overall. It has my favorite film score, with Catwoman's theme being my favorite musical composition of all time. It's not really a great adaptation of Batman (and nothing beats the original Animated Series in that respect), but this may be one of if not the best *movies* that just happens to have Batman in it. Finally, this, Edward Scissorhands, and Nightmare Before Christmas (what I like to call the "Christmas Trilogy") are easily the best works in both Tim Burton's and Danny Elfman's careers.
🦇Normally, I'd be right there with you on this movie on it's plot being thin and all not that interesting. But, you also said something else that I agree with in that Michelle Pfeiffer just at up her scenes. Add to that I also think Danny DeVito and Christopher Walken did as well. So, I still like this movie today because, while I still think the plot could've been done better, I'm here for the actors performances and various one-liners. I enjoy this movie more if I turn off my brain. 🦇
It's a dark, fetishistic, atmospheric cinematic fever dream with little narrative cohesion. That's what it is, that's what it wants to be, and those who enjoy it enjoy it just for that. (Meaning that those who dislike it for those reasons absolutely have a point.)
I like returns better because of the characters. I dont realy care about the story of the first one either. The score is a vibe as well. That makes it so I don't need a realy solid story. Overall I like begins and dark knight a smidge better because it has a story on top of every thing else. i couldn't get into Gotham. I stopped in season 2.
I have never head the term "house coat" before.
Max Shreck's name is used here as an homage to an actual person. Look him up! He has a curious, if didactic connection to Batman.
The duckvis a possible reference to Burgess Meredith who used to quack in the 60s tv show as Penguins don't realky make any noise🎩
Michelle Pfiefer is awesome. She is the best Catwoman since Julie Newmar.
Catwoman. Michelle Pfeiffer IS Catwoman!
"I wanna play an integral part in his degradation" Selina, MA'AM. This is not that kind of movie
My favorite non Nolan Batman movie followed closely by Batman And Robin
the tall thin clown if didn't know he is Doug Jones you wont recognise him as he is not known for being himself, but you will likely have seen his characters in many tv and movies from Hocus Pocus, Hellboy, Fantastic 4, Star Trek Discovery and Buffy