Ah I love this topic. It appears we are in alignment in terms of how we interpret the cognitive functions! Again this is why I am surprised when I’m referred to as ‘logical’ when I’m actually very inconsistent with logic and don’t understand it. But I think Fi+Te manages to arrive at wonderful Ti places (especially since INTPs with Ti+Fe constantly impress me with their outstanding emotional intelligence, no matter what people say!)
(INTP here) I think Ti can assist Fi and likewise Fi can assit Ti - which could maybe extend to the other functions. Tuning into this video (and channel) to assist better understanding my older brother who's a INFP. Thanks!
My experience is a little different. I always type INFP (whether on a test or by matching myself to type descriptions), but INTP is always just a hair behind. I don't feel like it is possible that either Fi or Ti are an unused "demon" function for me, or even a strongly non-preferred function. Te (productivity) and Fe (connecting), on the other hand are always struggles. This was true from my earliest memories through today, so I don't think it's a product of life experiences. Myers-Briggs did not originally lay out 4 or 8 function stacks. They had only a dominant and an auxiliary, and personality tests that attempt to measure functions directly do not put them into the prescribed order. I question whether the full 8 function order is true for every person, or if there are really subtypes that have different natural preferences.
Yeah that's true, we all have different experiences and different ideas about the mbti systems. I do have much more difficulty with Te and Fe on the daily, but i umderstand them more, so to speak? Ti is more of an unknown entity to me.
This totally sounds like my way of thinking. I’m all over the place. It makes sense when in times of crisis, Ti could be there to help pick up the pieces and put us back together when we crash. Does that sound right? Could developing Ti be used to add an internal logical structure to thoughts and feeling? I too am trying to grasp Ti. Have a wonderful and adventurous day :)
It's not that a type doesn't have feelings, it's that an INTP struggles with expressing their feelings and their resolution is less, so an INFP might have loads of different feelings about a particular book, a high resolution, whereas for an INTP they might just have one simplified feeling for that book, bad/good/great, they lack nuance essentially. The easiest way to imagine Ti as an INFP is to just think of Fi but instead of categorizing your system of how you feel about things, an INTP is categorizing how things operate. Logic and reason itself is something anyone can use, they have nothing to do with a type, however, if you're doing Ti it puts you in a stance where you are virtually forced to reason constantly, cause otherwise your system will make no sense and suffer from contradictions. Contradictions in feelings isn't really a thing, so there's no inherent reasoning needed for the system. You can technically have a more intelligent, reasonable and logical INFP than an INTP. Just as it's possible for an INTP to be more emotional than an INFP, but it typically isn't common, but nonetheless possible. I mean, cold intellectual INFP's exist, and so do stupid warm INTP's; we're just stuck in a stereotype hell because we've been unable to accurately identify what the cognitive functions actually do. //INTP
Thank you, that's a great way of clarifying! I have mostly been exposed to Ti from tertiary or inferior Ti users so i don't know much about the subject. It is so removed from my usual way of thinking about things that it's like trying to imagine what a rhinoceros looks like from hearsay, the way medieval artists did. I will not get it right because the closest i can approach it is from the extreme simplification that Ti=logic when both Ti and logic are so much more than that. Like many things, the more i learn the less i know. So thank you so much for the comment, i love hearing from you INTPs 😊
11:38 Actually this is a good point about how you required reason to keep your system of feelings about things straight. Just imagine that instead you were categorizing how a thing operates, like for example, an INTP could've categorized why it is that iron itself is necessary or not for optimal health. They would wanna understand the process itself instead of forming any sense of feelings about it. In both cases, Fi and Ti, it gives the person a system that they can follow and act upon. Understanding the nature of slaughtering animals gives insight where an INTP might decide it's morally wrong, but they would wanna understand the process before forming any feelings about it.
Well said! It's not uncommon to see TiNe and FiNe users take completely different routes, for completely different reasons, to the same conclusion. INTPs are some of my most favorite people -- sometimes there's friction, but the main issue is that both types lack initiatives to start anything. It's helpful to have a third-party catalyst to pull an INTP and INFP into the same room. Then fun things happen.
well, just like contractions for Ti makes it chaotic, Fi also needs congruance in feeling, for ex, if something goes against the Fi values, it's impossible to move on for an infp without justifying..
As an INFP I seem to be pretty decent at Ti logic tests. I'm not sure or not though if I'm just tapping into inferior Te in short bursts to complete each question. I feel like I care about logic but I would just rather stay in Ne imagination land most of the time. Being enneagram 4w5 with the 5 wing I'm also always constantly researching and analyzing everything into oblivion. So there have been times when I have considered that I might be INTP. I feel like with me being enneagram 4w5 it makes me feel somewhere in the middle of both types but it is skewed considerably more towards INFP if that is even possible which it seems like it is.
I noticed over and over again that the 5th function is surprisingly weaker in people then it's often portrayed. Also that the 6th function is a lot stronger then it's often portrayed. It actually seems to me that INFP's I know use Ti more then ENTJ, ESTJ's. Once reason is FI being so similar to Ti, as an introverted judging function.
@@radishraven9 I generally agree with Scocionics. But their assertion that 5th is strong, I just don't see that in reality. If it's "strong but not valued", then it seems to be heavily not valued.
Up at 3:30am? My adult daughter often watches anime at those wee hours - it's not something like that is it? Getting an episode first release out of Japan? Or were you just catching up on all your comments? INTPs are observing you as a Fi role model, huh? How clinical (and TP) of them! I think it's a little funny that everyone always wants to be a little more like some other type - which you can do, for sure, as you grow. I'm almost smack dab between INFJ and INFP in my MBTI (roughly 52/48 in two full M-B testings 15 years apart) but have worked on expanding myself on Extroversion for over 20 years now. Looking into your 'demon' functions is a worthwhile experiment, at least to understand them and how they can drive you. I get the part about something 'feeling' right, even though there is no logical basis for that. Maybe 'logic' doesn't work for that - I know I have contradictions like that in my head, but I think that's all part of being human. I think 'logic' as applied to humans is mainly a relative term anyway. INTPs may believe they are without feeling but it's there, just not dominating. Even their 'logic' is a human, emotionally driven one. Like you said, we aren't robots. Dig down a little under that surface and they are there, just as confusing and contradictory as any Fi.
I believe I am an INTP, and for me emotions are very hard to express and define. I can physically feel something (in my body), but understanding emotions any deeper feels clumsy, like I'm fumbling in the dark. I have to "logic my way" through emotions to delve any deeper than surface level. If I see something that's meant to be sad, I often need to think about why it's sad and connect it with something I can understand and have experienced. In a way, I can imagine that's what Fi is (understanding other people's emotions by connecting them with your experiences), but I think I am too cold and logical in my processing of emotioms to be an Fi dom (perhaps I'm wrong though). As others have mentioned, I think one way to look at it is the colour spectrum. When you understand emotions well, you can see the entire rainbow and then some, but with people like me we see more in black, white and greys, and the distinction between each gradiant is much more fuzzy and there are fewer shades. Another way to look at it is that you can look at an object (feelings) and see it fully, even touch it, but for us it's like being blindfolded and only getting to touch the object. I will say that I appreciate INFP's and other FI users because of the authenticity you bring. I personally cherish being authentic too and I think in a way both Fi and Ti want to be authentic in their own way. Fi wants authentic values more and Ti wants authentic reasoning more, but I think there can be a large degree of overlap between INFP's and INTP's in that regard, much due to the other functions. Anyway, I think it's really admirable when people are true to themselves and their values.
Hi, first of all i love that you have a username with an animal, like mine! Thank you for the clarification, it is fascinating to me how INTPs think! I think maybe I'm colorblind to Ti?
@@radishraven9 I appreciate your response, despite being fashionably late with my comment. I chose my username because of the PFP: Kermit the frog giving the finger, i. e. an irate amphibian. Quite literal, although I suppose the definition of what constitutes anger is more abstract, as it is an emotion (which is quite fitting for the topic at hand). Would your username reflect a raven who was obsessed with radishes (the vegetable)? Ravens have a knack for collecting things, both useful and useless. In this sense, they may be anthropomorphised as quite sentimental, much as how the INFP's are portrayed. Your comparison seems apt. I like to think that I understand the Fi need for authenticity, but I don't have a strong sense of self or what my values are, beyond what makes sense to me and for the world. Fe probably helps in that regard. I understand and relate to your example about caring about animals but still eating meat, and seeing the contradiction in that. I detest hypocrisy and double standards, and try to avoid it as much as possible in myself. Authenticity.
@@Onnarashi i thought the pun on rad and radish was fun, i guess it just sounded nice. I do think ravens are super smart and remember a lot of things. I love kermit 😊 lol ironic it is associated with an emotion 😂
@@radishraven9 Makes sense. Yes, ravens are smart, maybe even logical. Sentimental but also capable of logic. Just like INFP's. In any case, I hope you have a lovely Christmas holiday. It's only a week off. God jul.
Hi, INTP here. I can only talk about my own experiences with Fi and maybe implore you to look for parallels. Do you ever think of yourself as 'using' Fi? I mean syntactically you do but it's an introverted function that's building itself internally all the time right? For me the way I've learnt to see (not use) Fi is when I go on walks or when I'm in my room alone, I ask myself how I feel about relevant matter. It helps me realign my Ti and form better conclusions that will help me see things more clearly. I've never really considered myself to be unaware of feelings or not have them, but my life just isn't about that, it's about explanations that I constantly come up with that hold my experience of being together. This doesn't mean that I don't have Fi, it's still building itself, remodelling and changing with time, the same as Ti, Si & Ni. I think you might be able to do the same with Ti. As you've observed and experienced things over the years you may have noticed certain patterns, certain consistencies in peoples behaviours, social groups, interpersonal relationships etc? Do you ever think about those and affirm yourself that those patterns & consistencies that you notice are actually true despite there not being many Te external & verified sources backing you up? If you're a Te user that might sound like schizophrenia but that is actually your Ti. Instead of dismissing those thoughts, when you're alone and not in the requirement of using your most trusted functions, dig deeper, ask yourself why you may have come to those conclusions, see if they add up and if they do then hold on to your findings and consider them as principles. I'm sure it'll help with your Fi as well. And plus Ti is just cool as hell, as is Fi.
Hmm i have thought about this a lot. I mean in CBT theory thoughts are linked to bodily sensations and core emotions. I think feelings are thoughts but more social relation based. Basic emotions come from the amygdala but complex feelings have a coupling from amygdala to the frontal cortex. I think complex thought is pure frontal cortex. But that's just my theory. So yes to your questions 🙂
@@Jodzilla hmm yeah i don't know about that since the amygdala is such a primitive and integral part of the brain that is coupled to basic functions in the mid brain. So just the same as we don't forget to breathe or digest we don't forget how to feel different emotions, though we might forget the memories behind them.
I remember looking up to radishraven so strongly because she had career, at least had some momentum in her life and she was a fellow Infp. But now, I feel confused because here I am after figuring out my life ugliness/confusion. And radishraven is more or less in the same spot in life as I found her channel in 2020. I feel so baffled that I am pulling up to a understanding of roughly the same level as I see radishraven having. I guess I ll have to find even more successful infps to study and implement life tactics from. I am open to suggestions for infp role models that are have found success.
You can't measure the growth of a person by their youtube channel. I have learnt a good deal since 2020 and a lot has happened in my life since then, you just don't see it. A lot of positive change has happened in my career, financial state, my relationships, my physical and mental health... I'm sorry you wanted to watch someone who demonstrated success in a conventional sense. I hope you find what you seek somewhere else.
Having Ti as a primary function doesn’t automatically make you present perfect arguments. INTP’s HATE any kind of confrontations. They are also very random, as the Ti and Ne are coming up with new ideas as they speak, kind of like brainstorming out loud. I swear, sometimes I don’t know what going to come out of my mouth!! Sometimes the thoughts are created and conveyed without reasoning, just generated almost as a constant stream. And there’s Si in there, quickly pulling memories to use for the argument or thought. It seems to happen extremely fast. It’s hard to explain, but it’s really cool!! I come up with some REALLY WEIRD ideas, and some brilliant ideas, and I don’t know where they come from. The whole Ti/Ne thing is about coming up with ideas, which I really enjoy. It’s another form of creativity, except no one can see it but the INTP. The INTP’s world is in their head, kind of black and white. I assume feelings would add the colors. You are very correct, observing feelings is not the same as experiencing them. It does bring a little sense of accomplishment. I am driven to accomplish things: ideas, projects, written papers, etc. So, my thoughts must be constructive. The INTP doesn’t see feelings as being related to anything constructive, they are more destructive, clouding thoughts with random “glitter”, obscuring the view of what they are trying to accomplish. Yes, I do have some INTJ characteristics, being more organized and driven than the typical INTP. But I have all the weirdness (and other characteristics) of the INTP. And I’m more hands-on vs. theoretical, like an ISTP. A hands-on, driven, weirdo!! You are also correct, you cannot “feel” Ti. It is more of a process, used in combination with Ne and Si to generate ideas. Ti = AI??? But you also have Ne & Si and the 2nd and 3rd functions. How do they work with Fi?? And this is exactly why it is interesting to listen to you. You are trying to understand Ti thru the use of feelings because that is your dominant function. It’s kind of like seeing a different side of humanity, or a different planet. Yea, that’s a bit extreme. There’s nothing wrong with your way of thinking, it’s just different to me. We think using our primary function. It’s who we are. We can’t change that. Trying to understand a different way of thinking is interesting. **My original comment started here, but I had a whole lot of thoughts and didn’t want them to get lost at the end.** With myself as an INTP and my daughter an INFP, I too have thought about the similarities and differences between them. She always says we a very alike. We are and aren’t. To me, everything has to make sense. I am always looking for the logical sense in everything. I’m surprised my wife hasn’t killed me, I tend to pull apart the plot holes and errors in movies, and other thinks I notice, using my 2nd function (Ne). The INFP must do a similar thing with their Ne, but I assume it’s looking at the emotional aspect vs. the logical. It’s not that INTP’s don’t feel emotion, they don’t feel them with the DEPTH and WIDTH that the 1st function Fe/Fi type types do. The INTP’s emotional intelligence/maturity is very low. The best explanation that I’ve found for that is the Personality Hacker’s “Car Model”. I won’t post a link, but it’s easy to find. This explains SO MUCH!! I rarely watch their videos because they talk WAY TOO MUCH! I can’t sit still for 1-2 hours!! I have many other things to do!! In the front seat is the Driver (1st function), which is the part of you that you most identify with (INTP - Ti, INFP - Fi), which you would spend 80% of your time with. The Co-pilot (2nd function) is a part of you that you identify with, but not as strong as the driver (INTP & INFP - Ne). Behind the co-pilot is the 10 year old part of you (3rd function), that you know is there but have a push/pull relationship with, sometimes you’re good at it, sometimes it messes you up (INTP & INFP Si). Behind the driver is your 4th function, the 3 year old, is the most unsophisticated part of you, you have a tendency to not see it, it often influences you from the shadows until it makes its presence known, usually thru inner turmoil (INTP - Fe, INFP - Te). This is your blind spot. They also gave nicknames to the 8 functions: Learning processes • Introverted iNtuition - “Perspectives” • Extraverted iNtuition - “Exploration” • Introverted Sensing - “Memory” • Extraverted Sensing - “Sensation” Decision-making processes • Introverted Thinking - “Accuracy” • Extraverted Thinking - “Effectiveness” • Introverted Feeling - “Authenticity” • Extraverted Feeling - “Harmony” So, the INTP’s & INFP’s 1st, 4th & 8th functions are all Decision making processes. One we understand well, and the other 2 are blind spots and relatively unknown to us. I won’t go into any more detail, you can find the “Car model” and digest it for yourself. I did find an excellent page on the INTP cognitive stack (all 8 functions) from the Psychology Junkie, that goes into great detail. I didn’t look to see if they had an INFP equivalent, but they have an INFP page. I’ve learned a lot from AJ Drenth’s Personality Junkie website and his books (he is an INTP), but he doesn’t talk about the 4 shadow functions, and I haven’t done much research into them. But they are just the flipped i/e of the primary functions (INTP - Ti, Ne, Si, Fe, Te, Ni, Se, Fi). AJ does go into a lot of details about Typology and is definitely worth the read (for the nerd types). While his books are great, much of the material is available on his website. My previous attempts to include links in RUclips comments have resulted in the comment being deleted. I hope you made it thru my rant!! This took probably 2 hours to write and edit.
I was scrolling thru your videos, looking at the titles, and I found you had made a Fi vs. Ti video on July 8, 2022. You actually did a better job with that one, a bit less random, except for the grocery store part. One comment that stuck with me is you said Fe is superficial and Fi is more internal. That really resonated with me. Yes, my inferior Fe is definitely superficial, with minimal emotional awareness, like they are teasing me, giving me hints as to how I am/should feel, but never explaining what they are or what to do with them. Emotions suck for the INTP!! And things you are uncomfortable with tend to be suppressed. Are you uncomfortable with Te?? I'd think the T functions are a lot more useful than the F functions. As a Ti Dom I can't think of a use for Fe or Fi, I'd rather KNOW what is right vs. FEEL what is right. Feeling is subjective. Knowing is factual. Of course, there can be a blending of the 2, when your thoughts or feelings are being manipulated, such as the media does. I mostly ignore the news, you can't trust they are telling the truth, and they tend to play with people's emotions to get them to believe what they are saying. In that case, I guess I am aware of Fi, since I can recognize when the media or commercials are messing with people's emotions?? And shopping is geared towards the sensors, they need to have the latest trend or gadget to impress their friends. That raises another question. How are Sensing and Feeling related?? They can both be illogical and irrational. Oh well, that's enough for now!!
Hi first of all thanks for your long and interesting comment! I don't think my reply can encompass all my thoughts but I'll try to be brief. Yes I'm aware and pretty well-versed of the personalityjunkie theory, and the car model is the way i view the function stack. I love the creativity of INTPs! I'm not saying INTPs are eloquent, because they often are not doing better than me in that respect but they are quite clear in writing at least. I cannot explain how Fi and Ne work together in one comment, but i hope you learn more on this channel. It is interesting how you view feelings as superfluous, since for me that spark or glitter is what gives meaning to my life. Like you said it is exactly like being from different planets! Of course you guys feel things but it is pretty simplistic and rudimentary, just like my logic.
@@davefengler4266 i don't remember that video well but i was definitely more awake making it lol. I'm sorry emotions suck for you guys. I'm uncomfortable being forced to use Te in the world to get stuff done, I'd rather just daydream all day. When it comes to what is right, my philosophy is that certain things can't be "known". Is there even an objective truth of what is right? No, just a subjective one in my opinion. And that is only a fact to you, but not to someone else. I think your awareness of what manipulates people's emotions is more inferior Fe. Being aware of what manipulates you specifically is more Fi. I guess also for you feeling and sensing are related because they are both "other" to you, because for me it would make more sense that thinking and sensing are related.
@@radishraven9 Thanks!! More insight into the INTP. INTP’s tend to overthink things (Ti-Si loop), resulting in indecisiveness. I recently realized another result of that loop (combined with inferior Fe) is being very sensitive to rejection, based on overthinking something and assuming the worst, which is completely illogical. I tend to be sensitive to criticism and being ignored. Not seeing a reply in a day makes me subconsciously think, “Am I being ignored? Did I say something wrong?”. I feel hurt, but I don’t understand why. There’s no logical reason to feel hurt! BUT!! How can I have these feelings if I “have no feelings”??!! As we know, INTP’s have feelings, but they are very primitive. The INTP’s visible anger tends to be rare but explosive, probably from years of repression. The same with sadness and happiness. When INTP’s do show emotions, they tend to be extreme and out of proportion to the situation. I guess that is the downside of being an INTP. At least when an INFP is having an emotional problem they know what they are!
A diplomatic and very respectable attempt to mediate between our demons and dispositions 😂 One of my favorite Ti videos of yours! 😅 I think INxPs are indeed similar in categorizing their world into a unique and self-made framework. Fi often can't be understood from the Ti lens, but neither can Ti from the Fi lens. The color their person is seen in does change through their dominant lenses in that, to the contrary, INFPs may appear highly logical, or INTPs appear emotionally caring and do what "feels" right. While it's a way of emulating and when you follow closely it can be a bit off... But yes, I'm rarely convinced of using Fi, nor do I get it fully, though it's worth exploring. It truly seems to be helpful in a plight or last resort when I want to guide myself emotionally instead of trying to understand people's feelings by Fe. 🧑🔬🥼🥽🧪⚗🧫🔬 INTPs assemble 😂
Haha thanks for contributing to the INFP-INTP diplomacy! 🥼🤝🥼 I'm glad i made somewhat sense 😅 yeah it's weird how people on the outside might say I'm logical but if you dig deeper something is a bit off...
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Ah I love this topic. It appears we are in alignment in terms of how we interpret the cognitive functions! Again this is why I am surprised when I’m referred to as ‘logical’ when I’m actually very inconsistent with logic and don’t understand it. But I think Fi+Te manages to arrive at wonderful Ti places (especially since INTPs with Ti+Fe constantly impress me with their outstanding emotional intelligence, no matter what people say!)
Thank you! Yes exactly i couldn't have said it better! 😊
(INTP here) I think Ti can assist Fi and likewise Fi can assit Ti - which could maybe extend to the other functions.
Tuning into this video (and channel) to assist better understanding my older brother who's a INFP.
Thanks!
Yeah i love intps! I'm sure Fi and Ti users can learn a lot from each other 😊
I diagnose you with the case of 'overthinking'
Yes, that's no news to me
@radishraven9 so you like it then? 😂
@@SA2004YG it's not something to like or dislike, it just is a fact that i tend to overthink
@radishraven9 but it's something that can be controlled, since you didn't look for a way to do it than you're at least fine with it
@@SA2004YG yeah i mean I've accepted it
On this thread of thought and feeling, I would highly recommend a book called De Cates error, by Antonio Damasio
My experience is a little different. I always type INFP (whether on a test or by matching myself to type descriptions), but INTP is always just a hair behind. I don't feel like it is possible that either Fi or Ti are an unused "demon" function for me, or even a strongly non-preferred function. Te (productivity) and Fe (connecting), on the other hand are always struggles. This was true from my earliest memories through today, so I don't think it's a product of life experiences.
Myers-Briggs did not originally lay out 4 or 8 function stacks. They had only a dominant and an auxiliary, and personality tests that attempt to measure functions directly do not put them into the prescribed order. I question whether the full 8 function order is true for every person, or if there are really subtypes that have different natural preferences.
Yeah that's true, we all have different experiences and different ideas about the mbti systems. I do have much more difficulty with Te and Fe on the daily, but i umderstand them more, so to speak? Ti is more of an unknown entity to me.
This totally sounds like my way of thinking. I’m all over the place. It makes sense when in times of crisis, Ti could be there to help pick up the pieces and put us back together when we crash. Does that sound right? Could developing Ti be used to add an internal logical structure to thoughts and feeling? I too am trying to grasp Ti. Have a wonderful and adventurous day :)
It's not that a type doesn't have feelings, it's that an INTP struggles with expressing their feelings and their resolution is less, so an INFP might have loads of different feelings about a particular book, a high resolution, whereas for an INTP they might just have one simplified feeling for that book, bad/good/great, they lack nuance essentially.
The easiest way to imagine Ti as an INFP is to just think of Fi but instead of categorizing your system of how you feel about things, an INTP is categorizing how things operate. Logic and reason itself is something anyone can use, they have nothing to do with a type, however, if you're doing Ti it puts you in a stance where you are virtually forced to reason constantly, cause otherwise your system will make no sense and suffer from contradictions. Contradictions in feelings isn't really a thing, so there's no inherent reasoning needed for the system.
You can technically have a more intelligent, reasonable and logical INFP than an INTP. Just as it's possible for an INTP to be more emotional than an INFP, but it typically isn't common, but nonetheless possible. I mean, cold intellectual INFP's exist, and so do stupid warm INTP's; we're just stuck in a stereotype hell because we've been unable to accurately identify what the cognitive functions actually do.
//INTP
Thank you, that's a great way of clarifying! I have mostly been exposed to Ti from tertiary or inferior Ti users so i don't know much about the subject. It is so removed from my usual way of thinking about things that it's like trying to imagine what a rhinoceros looks like from hearsay, the way medieval artists did. I will not get it right because the closest i can approach it is from the extreme simplification that Ti=logic when both Ti and logic are so much more than that. Like many things, the more i learn the less i know. So thank you so much for the comment, i love hearing from you INTPs 😊
11:38 Actually this is a good point about how you required reason to keep your system of feelings about things straight. Just imagine that instead you were categorizing how a thing operates, like for example, an INTP could've categorized why it is that iron itself is necessary or not for optimal health. They would wanna understand the process itself instead of forming any sense of feelings about it. In both cases, Fi and Ti, it gives the person a system that they can follow and act upon. Understanding the nature of slaughtering animals gives insight where an INTP might decide it's morally wrong, but they would wanna understand the process before forming any feelings about it.
@@radishraven9 👍😆
Well said! It's not uncommon to see TiNe and FiNe users take completely different routes, for completely different reasons, to the same conclusion. INTPs are some of my most favorite people -- sometimes there's friction, but the main issue is that both types lack initiatives to start anything. It's helpful to have a third-party catalyst to pull an INTP and INFP into the same room. Then fun things happen.
well, just like contractions for Ti makes it chaotic, Fi also needs congruance in feeling, for ex, if something goes against the Fi values, it's impossible to move on for an infp without justifying..
As an INFP I seem to be pretty decent at Ti logic tests. I'm not sure or not though if I'm just tapping into inferior Te in short bursts to complete each question. I feel like I care about logic but I would just rather stay in Ne imagination land most of the time. Being enneagram 4w5 with the 5 wing I'm also always constantly researching and analyzing everything into oblivion. So there have been times when I have considered that I might be INTP. I feel like with me being enneagram 4w5 it makes me feel somewhere in the middle of both types but it is skewed considerably more towards INFP if that is even possible which it seems like it is.
Yeah i understand! enneagram seems to have a role to play here
I noticed over and over again that the 5th function is surprisingly weaker in people then it's often portrayed. Also that the 6th function is a lot stronger then it's often portrayed.
It actually seems to me that INFP's I know use Ti more then ENTJ, ESTJ's. Once reason is FI being so similar to Ti, as an introverted judging function.
Hmm interesting there are different theories about that, i don't really know what is true.
@@radishraven9 I generally agree with Scocionics. But their assertion that 5th is strong, I just don't see that in reality.
If it's "strong but not valued", then it seems to be heavily not valued.
Up at 3:30am? My adult daughter often watches anime at those wee hours - it's not something like that is it? Getting an episode first release out of Japan? Or were you just catching up on all your comments? INTPs are observing you as a Fi role model, huh? How clinical (and TP) of them! I think it's a little funny that everyone always wants to be a little more like some other type - which you can do, for sure, as you grow. I'm almost smack dab between INFJ and INFP in my MBTI (roughly 52/48 in two full M-B testings 15 years apart) but have worked on expanding myself on Extroversion for over 20 years now. Looking into your 'demon' functions is a worthwhile experiment, at least to understand them and how they can drive you. I get the part about something 'feeling' right, even though there is no logical basis for that. Maybe 'logic' doesn't work for that - I know I have contradictions like that in my head, but I think that's all part of being human. I think 'logic' as applied to humans is mainly a relative term anyway. INTPs may believe they are without feeling but it's there, just not dominating. Even their 'logic' is a human, emotionally driven one. Like you said, we aren't robots. Dig down a little under that surface and they are there, just as confusing and contradictory as any Fi.
Ah no i wasn't watching anime! Yeah logic is a much more nuanced thing than i make out in the video. Thanks for watching! 😊
I believe I am an INTP, and for me emotions are very hard to express and define. I can physically feel something (in my body), but understanding emotions any deeper feels clumsy, like I'm fumbling in the dark. I have to "logic my way" through emotions to delve any deeper than surface level. If I see something that's meant to be sad, I often need to think about why it's sad and connect it with something I can understand and have experienced. In a way, I can imagine that's what Fi is (understanding other people's emotions by connecting them with your experiences), but I think I am too cold and logical in my processing of emotioms to be an Fi dom (perhaps I'm wrong though).
As others have mentioned, I think one way to look at it is the colour spectrum. When you understand emotions well, you can see the entire rainbow and then some, but with people like me we see more in black, white and greys, and the distinction between each gradiant is much more fuzzy and there are fewer shades. Another way to look at it is that you can look at an object (feelings) and see it fully, even touch it, but for us it's like being blindfolded and only getting to touch the object.
I will say that I appreciate INFP's and other FI users because of the authenticity you bring. I personally cherish being authentic too and I think in a way both Fi and Ti want to be authentic in their own way. Fi wants authentic values more and Ti wants authentic reasoning more, but I think there can be a large degree of overlap between INFP's and INTP's in that regard, much due to the other functions. Anyway, I think it's really admirable when people are true to themselves and their values.
Hi, first of all i love that you have a username with an animal, like mine! Thank you for the clarification, it is fascinating to me how INTPs think! I think maybe I'm colorblind to Ti?
@@radishraven9 I appreciate your response, despite being fashionably late with my comment. I chose my username because of the PFP: Kermit the frog giving the finger, i. e. an irate amphibian. Quite literal, although I suppose the definition of what constitutes anger is more abstract, as it is an emotion (which is quite fitting for the topic at hand).
Would your username reflect a raven who was obsessed with radishes (the vegetable)? Ravens have a knack for collecting things, both useful and useless. In this sense, they may be anthropomorphised as quite sentimental, much as how the INFP's are portrayed.
Your comparison seems apt. I like to think that I understand the Fi need for authenticity, but I don't have a strong sense of self or what my values are, beyond what makes sense to me and for the world. Fe probably helps in that regard. I understand and relate to your example about caring about animals but still eating meat, and seeing the contradiction in that. I detest hypocrisy and double standards, and try to avoid it as much as possible in myself. Authenticity.
@@Onnarashi i thought the pun on rad and radish was fun, i guess it just sounded nice. I do think ravens are super smart and remember a lot of things. I love kermit 😊 lol ironic it is associated with an emotion 😂
@@radishraven9 Makes sense. Yes, ravens are smart, maybe even logical. Sentimental but also capable of logic. Just like INFP's.
In any case, I hope you have a lovely Christmas holiday. It's only a week off. God jul.
Hi, INTP here.
I can only talk about my own experiences with Fi and maybe implore you to look for parallels.
Do you ever think of yourself as 'using' Fi? I mean syntactically you do but it's an introverted function that's building itself internally all the time right? For me the way I've learnt to see (not use) Fi is when I go on walks or when I'm in my room alone, I ask myself how I feel about relevant matter. It helps me realign my Ti and form better conclusions that will help me see things more clearly. I've never really considered myself to be unaware of feelings or not have them, but my life just isn't about that, it's about explanations that I constantly come up with that hold my experience of being together. This doesn't mean that I don't have Fi, it's still building itself, remodelling and changing with time, the same as Ti, Si & Ni.
I think you might be able to do the same with Ti. As you've observed and experienced things over the years you may have noticed certain patterns, certain consistencies in peoples behaviours, social groups, interpersonal relationships etc? Do you ever think about those and affirm yourself that those patterns & consistencies that you notice are actually true despite there not being many Te external & verified sources backing you up? If you're a Te user that might sound like schizophrenia but that is actually your Ti. Instead of dismissing those thoughts, when you're alone and not in the requirement of using your most trusted functions, dig deeper, ask yourself why you may have come to those conclusions, see if they add up and if they do then hold on to your findings and consider them as principles.
I'm sure it'll help with your Fi as well. And plus Ti is just cool as hell, as is Fi.
Do you think that feelings are thoughts? Is a feeling just a thought that is attached to a sensation or an emotion? 🤔
Hmm i have thought about this a lot. I mean in CBT theory thoughts are linked to bodily sensations and core emotions. I think feelings are thoughts but more social relation based. Basic emotions come from the amygdala but complex feelings have a coupling from amygdala to the frontal cortex. I think complex thought is pure frontal cortex. But that's just my theory. So yes to your questions 🙂
@@radishraven9 then that would suggest a forgetful person could forget a feeling. Interesting.
@@Jodzilla hmm yeah i don't know about that since the amygdala is such a primitive and integral part of the brain that is coupled to basic functions in the mid brain. So just the same as we don't forget to breathe or digest we don't forget how to feel different emotions, though we might forget the memories behind them.
@@radishraven9 sorry. I forgot what we were talking about.
that's how most infp conversations go lol
@@Jodzilla
I remember looking up to radishraven so strongly because she had career, at least had some momentum in her life and she was a fellow Infp.
But now, I feel confused because here I am after figuring out my life ugliness/confusion. And radishraven is more or less in the same spot in life as I found her channel in 2020. I feel so baffled that I am pulling up to a understanding of roughly the same level as I see radishraven having.
I guess I ll have to find even more successful infps to study and implement life tactics from. I am open to suggestions for infp role models that are have found success.
You can't measure the growth of a person by their youtube channel. I have learnt a good deal since 2020 and a lot has happened in my life since then, you just don't see it. A lot of positive change has happened in my career, financial state, my relationships, my physical and mental health... I'm sorry you wanted to watch someone who demonstrated success in a conventional sense. I hope you find what you seek somewhere else.
Oh wow. An actual example of a Ti demon in practice.
Having Ti as a primary function doesn’t automatically make you present perfect arguments. INTP’s HATE any kind of confrontations. They are also very random, as the Ti and Ne are coming up with new ideas as they speak, kind of like brainstorming out loud. I swear, sometimes I don’t know what going to come out of my mouth!! Sometimes the thoughts are created and conveyed without reasoning, just generated almost as a constant stream. And there’s Si in there, quickly pulling memories to use for the argument or thought. It seems to happen extremely fast. It’s hard to explain, but it’s really cool!! I come up with some REALLY WEIRD ideas, and some brilliant ideas, and I don’t know where they come from. The whole Ti/Ne thing is about coming up with ideas, which I really enjoy. It’s another form of creativity, except no one can see it but the INTP. The INTP’s world is in their head, kind of black and white. I assume feelings would add the colors.
You are very correct, observing feelings is not the same as experiencing them. It does bring a little sense of accomplishment. I am driven to accomplish things: ideas, projects, written papers, etc. So, my thoughts must be constructive. The INTP doesn’t see feelings as being related to anything constructive, they are more destructive, clouding thoughts with random “glitter”, obscuring the view of what they are trying to accomplish.
Yes, I do have some INTJ characteristics, being more organized and driven than the typical INTP. But I have all the weirdness (and other characteristics) of the INTP. And I’m more hands-on vs. theoretical, like an ISTP. A hands-on, driven, weirdo!!
You are also correct, you cannot “feel” Ti. It is more of a process, used in combination with Ne and Si to generate ideas. Ti = AI??? But you also have Ne & Si and the 2nd and 3rd functions. How do they work with Fi??
And this is exactly why it is interesting to listen to you. You are trying to understand Ti thru the use of feelings because that is your dominant function. It’s kind of like seeing a different side of humanity, or a different planet. Yea, that’s a bit extreme. There’s nothing wrong with your way of thinking, it’s just different to me. We think using our primary function. It’s who we are. We can’t change that. Trying to understand a different way of thinking is interesting.
**My original comment started here, but I had a whole lot of thoughts and didn’t want them to get lost at the end.** With myself as an INTP and my daughter an INFP, I too have thought about the similarities and differences between them. She always says we a very alike. We are and aren’t. To me, everything has to make sense. I am always looking for the logical sense in everything. I’m surprised my wife hasn’t killed me, I tend to pull apart the plot holes and errors in movies, and other thinks I notice, using my 2nd function (Ne). The INFP must do a similar thing with their Ne, but I assume it’s looking at the emotional aspect vs. the logical.
It’s not that INTP’s don’t feel emotion, they don’t feel them with the DEPTH and WIDTH that the 1st function Fe/Fi type types do. The INTP’s emotional intelligence/maturity is very low.
The best explanation that I’ve found for that is the Personality Hacker’s “Car Model”. I won’t post a link, but it’s easy to find. This explains SO MUCH!! I rarely watch their videos because they talk WAY TOO MUCH! I can’t sit still for 1-2 hours!! I have many other things to do!!
In the front seat is the Driver (1st function), which is the part of you that you most identify with (INTP - Ti, INFP - Fi), which you would spend 80% of your time with.
The Co-pilot (2nd function) is a part of you that you identify with, but not as strong as the driver (INTP & INFP - Ne).
Behind the co-pilot is the 10 year old part of you (3rd function), that you know is there but have a push/pull relationship with, sometimes you’re good at it, sometimes it messes you up (INTP & INFP Si).
Behind the driver is your 4th function, the 3 year old, is the most unsophisticated part of you, you have a tendency to not see it, it often influences you from the shadows until it makes its presence known, usually thru inner turmoil (INTP - Fe, INFP - Te). This is your blind spot.
They also gave nicknames to the 8 functions:
Learning processes
• Introverted iNtuition - “Perspectives”
• Extraverted iNtuition - “Exploration”
• Introverted Sensing - “Memory”
• Extraverted Sensing - “Sensation”
Decision-making processes
• Introverted Thinking - “Accuracy”
• Extraverted Thinking - “Effectiveness”
• Introverted Feeling - “Authenticity”
• Extraverted Feeling - “Harmony”
So, the INTP’s & INFP’s 1st, 4th & 8th functions are all Decision making processes. One we understand well, and the other 2 are blind spots and relatively unknown to us. I won’t go into any more detail, you can find the “Car model” and digest it for yourself.
I did find an excellent page on the INTP cognitive stack (all 8 functions) from the Psychology Junkie, that goes into great detail. I didn’t look to see if they had an INFP equivalent, but they have an INFP page.
I’ve learned a lot from AJ Drenth’s Personality Junkie website and his books (he is an INTP), but he doesn’t talk about the 4 shadow functions, and I haven’t done much research into them. But they are just the flipped i/e of the primary functions (INTP - Ti, Ne, Si, Fe, Te, Ni, Se, Fi). AJ does go into a lot of details about Typology and is definitely worth the read (for the nerd types). While his books are great, much of the material is available on his website. My previous attempts to include links in RUclips comments have resulted in the comment being deleted.
I hope you made it thru my rant!! This took probably 2 hours to write and edit.
I was scrolling thru your videos, looking at the titles, and I found you had made a Fi vs. Ti video on July 8, 2022. You actually did a better job with that one, a bit less random, except for the grocery store part. One comment that stuck with me is you said Fe is superficial and Fi is more internal. That really resonated with me. Yes, my inferior Fe is definitely superficial, with minimal emotional awareness, like they are teasing me, giving me hints as to how I am/should feel, but never explaining what they are or what to do with them. Emotions suck for the INTP!! And things you are uncomfortable with tend to be suppressed.
Are you uncomfortable with Te?? I'd think the T functions are a lot more useful than the F functions. As a Ti Dom I can't think of a use for Fe or Fi, I'd rather KNOW what is right vs. FEEL what is right. Feeling is subjective. Knowing is factual. Of course, there can be a blending of the 2, when your thoughts or feelings are being manipulated, such as the media does. I mostly ignore the news, you can't trust they are telling the truth, and they tend to play with people's emotions to get them to believe what they are saying. In that case, I guess I am aware of Fi, since I can recognize when the media or commercials are messing with people's emotions?? And shopping is geared towards the sensors, they need to have the latest trend or gadget to impress their friends. That raises another question. How are Sensing and Feeling related?? They can both be illogical and irrational. Oh well, that's enough for now!!
Hi first of all thanks for your long and interesting comment! I don't think my reply can encompass all my thoughts but I'll try to be brief. Yes I'm aware and pretty well-versed of the personalityjunkie theory, and the car model is the way i view the function stack.
I love the creativity of INTPs! I'm not saying INTPs are eloquent, because they often are not doing better than me in that respect but they are quite clear in writing at least. I cannot explain how Fi and Ne work together in one comment, but i hope you learn more on this channel. It is interesting how you view feelings as superfluous, since for me that spark or glitter is what gives meaning to my life. Like you said it is exactly like being from different planets! Of course you guys feel things but it is pretty simplistic and rudimentary, just like my logic.
@@davefengler4266 i don't remember that video well but i was definitely more awake making it lol. I'm sorry emotions suck for you guys. I'm uncomfortable being forced to use Te in the world to get stuff done, I'd rather just daydream all day. When it comes to what is right, my philosophy is that certain things can't be "known". Is there even an objective truth of what is right? No, just a subjective one in my opinion. And that is only a fact to you, but not to someone else.
I think your awareness of what manipulates people's emotions is more inferior Fe. Being aware of what manipulates you specifically is more Fi.
I guess also for you feeling and sensing are related because they are both "other" to you, because for me it would make more sense that thinking and sensing are related.
Have you seen my comments?
I have dave i just need time to answer
@@radishraven9 Thanks!!
More insight into the INTP. INTP’s tend to overthink things (Ti-Si loop), resulting in indecisiveness. I recently realized another result of that loop (combined with inferior Fe) is being very sensitive to rejection, based on overthinking something and assuming the worst, which is completely illogical. I tend to be sensitive to criticism and being ignored. Not seeing a reply in a day makes me subconsciously think, “Am I being ignored? Did I say something wrong?”. I feel hurt, but I don’t understand why. There’s no logical reason to feel hurt!
BUT!! How can I have these feelings if I “have no feelings”??!! As we know, INTP’s have feelings, but they are very primitive. The INTP’s visible anger tends to be rare but explosive, probably from years of repression. The same with sadness and happiness. When INTP’s do show emotions, they tend to be extreme and out of proportion to the situation. I guess that is the downside of being an INTP. At least when an INFP is having an emotional problem they know what they are!
A diplomatic and very respectable attempt to mediate between our demons and dispositions 😂 One of my favorite Ti videos of yours! 😅 I think INxPs are indeed similar in categorizing their world into a unique and self-made framework. Fi often can't be understood from the Ti lens, but neither can Ti from the Fi lens. The color their person is seen in does change through their dominant lenses in that, to the contrary, INFPs may appear highly logical, or INTPs appear emotionally caring and do what "feels" right. While it's a way of emulating and when you follow closely it can be a bit off... But yes, I'm rarely convinced of using Fi, nor do I get it fully, though it's worth exploring. It truly seems to be helpful in a plight or last resort when I want to guide myself emotionally instead of trying to understand people's feelings by Fe.
🧑🔬🥼🥽🧪⚗🧫🔬 INTPs assemble 😂
Haha thanks for contributing to the INFP-INTP diplomacy! 🥼🤝🥼 I'm glad i made somewhat sense 😅 yeah it's weird how people on the outside might say I'm logical but if you dig deeper something is a bit off...