REAL TALK: The Casual Appeal Of STRIVE - Top 5 Reasons
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2021
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Игры
"Guilty Gear fans knew they could not change society: so, instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed te Cashuls"
*Keep it or Refund* Round 1 *Fight!*
@VV Sure, just ignore or dismiss Maximilian's video talking about things like that.
@UCZB7b1-AptRt6dWW90C8FMw Dude, you didn't think this through for five seconds.
Let's say ASW split GGST into "casual" and "hardcore" modes. This means they have to design two fighting games at the same time that both need to be balanced and fun. ASW probably doesn't have the resources to do this, so both modes will suffer in quality.
BUT FURTHERMORE, you've now split the playerbase. Rule one of online gaming: Never, ever, ever split the playerbase. With a casual/hardcore mode split with radical gameplay changes, players in each mode will likely be unwilling to play the other, so if the population of one mode declines players in that mode would rather quit than move to the other, sending half the game into a death spiral. Furthermore, the most popular mode will tend to get more new players because they'll say "oh, this is what everyone plays, I better play this."
So there are really two possibilities: One, the "casual" mode becomes dominant, you and your five friends get salty about being forced to play a game that has the audacity to try to appeal to newcomers, and you bugger off to play MBTL when that comes out. Essentially, nothing changes. OR, the "hardcore" mode becomes dominant. All the new players are dropped in and have no idea what to do because they game was probably expecting them to come in through the casual mode and invested less time in explaining. They immediately get BTFO by you and your five friends, and give up. Because there will not be new players continuing to come in (as they'll all give up) newcomers won't have anyone to play against at their own skill level, cycle continues. The playerbase declines until it's just the tiny tiny fraction of people who would have bought Rev3, ArcSys profits decline, and GGST is left for dead.
So basically if ArcSys did what you asked, either nothing changes or you don't get amyone new to play with and pretty soon ASW has to stop pouring resources into a game that won't sell, 'cause they're gonna go broke.
@VV Okay, let me just make this crystal clear to you.
You and your friends *are not an audience that ArcSys can afford to target*. ArcSys has been trying to make its games appeal to a broader audience for a long-ass time, so that it can continue to be viable as a company. And putting a "hardcore mode" into GGST would undeniably hurt the health of the game in the long run because forked playetbases *always* hurt games. I'm not saying that's good or bad, right or wrong, that's just how it is. You don't have to be happy about it but you're acting like ArcSys doing what you wanted would have been good for them, and a good idea. That isn't the case, fairly objectively.
At the very least, the fact that you're presenting yourself as a "crusader of justice" with this whole "stand up for what's right" nonsense is hilarious. You disagree with a series of creative and business decisions made by a Japanese fighting game developer. The Justice League, you are not.
@VV No, it's not my opinion. It's literally not.
GGXrd was with with declining sales at each revision. That is objectively true.
"Casual players are gonna roll in and beat high level players"
-motto of casual players who think they're high level players.
Really I think that's the motto of failures who cling on to being decent at a video game as opposed to actual life accomplishment
@@addex1236 same thing really
Exactly 🤣 if you're getting rekt by a new player and you think you're a high level player... you ain't.
@@thebokchoy6854 yah but if we sugar coat it than they get like its non issue
"MK11 casuals have entered the chat"
I think the tower is ingenious, it makes ranking something tangible. It’s not saying, “I’m bronze 2” it’s being an anime protagonist climbing a tower to fight gods. It’s fucking great
My only problem with it right now is finding somebody that I really want to run sets with and getting the “match ended because maximum number of matches exceeded” like just please let me keep playing!
@@samedwards3186 Those people are generally on your floor.. You can go seek them out.. The floor player list will even let you teleport to where they are.
@@thomasbrowne5591 not saying that finding them is the problem, I just want to play more than 3 games at a time!
@@samedwards3186 then go to the park, I feel like competitive setting you usually play bt2 so 3 rematches is a good number. you can still do long sets with people in your floor if you keep finding them. I feel like you can learn more by playing at the park
I saw the thumbnail. My initial reaction was that I wanted to reach the top. I do not care about rankings in games.
My big reason, Ranked feels delightfully more casual than casual in other games. I get to have a blast playing with others my skill level without the damn pressure to maintain or raise a score.
This. The ranking system is incredible.
Best rank system ever, getting rid of rank score removes the stress
100% agree
Yes! Literally my only problem right now is the “match ended because maximum number of matches exceeded” like let me run sets with people!
@@samedwards3186 for real though. The only thing about the Tower system that is lame is that specific 3 rematches type stuff going on. Like I just want to learn the matchup against a person who is really good at the character, but the game won't let me, which is mostly a shame if I am fighting a character I don't meet very often, who is actually played by a good player.
I also like that you can just go straight into upper floors and get your ass whooped.
Seems like a pretty good mechanic for the people who have a drive to learn the rough way while keeping the players who don't want to get whooped happy with the better players being restricted.
It also makes it not so bad when you are using anyone else but your main and your rank drops. You can just go straight back.
I think that part is very cool.
FGC reaction to Guilty Gear Strive: "Well Done! How Dare You!"
More like FGC boomers, they just complain about everything that isn't 3rd Strike or MvC2.
GG Strive is a masterpiece btw
@@sorrowfgc indeed
Never too late to bend the knee!
@@averyhepburn8092 When hell freezes over...
@@sorrowfgc Game hasn't been out a week and people are calling it a masterpiece? I hope the best for this game but remember how much people loved DBFZ when it first came out.
"If this was a Capcom game, it'd had already been cancelled"
I exploded 🤣
There'll be riots on the street
edit: Max said the line at 3:33
@@ServantBerserkerZero "They hated him because he told the truth"
I lost it more when he said Capcom would just take the game back from you. 😂
[DarkStalkers Resurrection has left the chat]
Poor MvC Infinite
Ya know yesterday I saw a brave soul from floor 4 come up to floor 10 and they fought me for like 4 games before leaving and while they didn't get close to winning I noticed that they were slowly learning and picking up on things
I played against a mythically rare floor 1 one day.
I just hope they stuck around.
@@HellecticMojo the lowest floor I've fought so far was someone from floor 2
THIS! Got my ass kicked by a higher level Ino, but started seeing the combo sequences and won a match against them.
@@e1v1a19 I did the same thing against a Chipp player. We played 6 sets and he beat me 8 rounds in a row, but i eventually took the last 2 sets off him. Felt amazing.
I on floor 4 got my ass kicked by a Millia floor 1, pretty sure it was a smurf though :p
One other point: "New" players does not strictly mean "casual" players. By attracting a larger audience, you're going to bring in a certain subset of the population who really will strive (heh) to fully learn the complex systems and underlying mechanics to a much higher degree. Not every pro in the FGC was magically created with the release of Street Fighter 2 and never again, appealing to a wide population is how you create the scene for hardcore and professional tier players in the first place.
One thing that is important to talk about, when a fighting game dev talks about "a new audience" and "new players", it does include casuals, but it doesn't mean only casuals, it also includes people who play other fighting games but don't play their game.
I was thinking the same. I thought most of the people they might of got feedback from were players from other games that felt they never stuck with guilty gear because it’s hard compared to game they play.
Street Fighter player here. Got into GGS bc of how absolutely stunning the visuals look, and I'm not even an anime fan. I'm now at 10th floor and I'm absolutely having a blast with this game.
The Heaven matchmaking sounds like a blessing because I hate fighting for a bit, then someone level 8000 ends my career 😭😭
It's very good at keeping you against players around your skill level. And if you drop a few levels by trying out a new character you can choose to go up higher to where you are on your main or stay at your new lower rank.
I'm bout to end this scrub's whole career
Towers-"heh, I don't think so"
Me-awwww, I wanted to be a bully.
Wahhhhhhh!
I mean yours still going to run into people On their way up to.higher floors
@@CallmeTrimtab That sounds like such a good feature
@@thesaltmerchant4564 If you're good though you're instantly placed around floor 6+ in the first place, so the people completely out of their league won't have that issue so much unless they are just completely throwing their games. And win streaks give bigger boosts to floor progression too, so even if they do they'd need to keep throwing some matches if they wanted to.
Guilty Gear's strength is that it doesn't have any "bad" or "boring" characters. Every playable character is at the VERY LEAST interesting in some way.
not for all....the only reason im not playing the game is because there is no interesting character for me
@@eVuLeX I dunno what you expect from this game, like it has a dude with crazy stances, random items, diagonal dashes, wall combos, etc. GG always had the Coolest mechanics for me, I hope that a character grabs your interest eventually
@@eVuLeX There's a difference between objective character design to make a variety of unique characters - which is what OP is talking about - and a subjective point of not wanting to play any of them.
@@ivanyy i expect nothing from the game :D maybe dlcs will bring a char for me...who knows
@@OurJynx cool....and whats you point?
I hate the "casualizing" of games as much as the next guy, but people worrying about someone unskilled beating a Pro is just laughable and kind of insulting. If someone is a pro, its not because they're just mechanical gods. There's a whole set of fundamentals, acumen, knowhow and wisdom that are involved. I mean, just because a hammer is an easily recognizable and easy to use object, a pro with a hammer will know how not to smash their thumb, or miss a nail head, etc. Just because the tool is easy to use doesn't mean it doesn't take a certain skillset to unlock its actual potential.
Absolutely. I'm a noob with fighting game PvP, I only played Tekken 2 3 4 MK 1 2 3 offline vs AI years ago when I was a kid. Then I picked up Strife, and I can TELL when I run into a several year veteran that will be several floors up soon. Its like they can read my mind, just because they trounce my knowledge and movement.
@@kjukken15 facts. I went up against of of those guys and I took 21 Ls just to learn and I definitely learned a lot!
The minute I went to play people my level I was playing much better.
players getting angry about the simplification in Strive thinks that the Fighting pros are just a bunch of combo-bots without game-sense at all, maybe those players are the combo-bots with no other skill
@@viceanterra3 Hard agree. I went into the Dojo, figured out my strings and special inputs and jumped into the fire. Learning through being demolished and developing humility beats wailing on bots for sure, I think.
yeah simplifying controls are fucking stupid, for Super Moves I can understand it though
This game is so addicting. I’m always like one more match. 4 hours later..
Even getting bodied is fun for the most part because you feel you learn.
@@Plasmacat1 yup exactly!
hookganggod in a nutshell
Man i envy you guys that can do that. I havent been able to sit down and play a game all day. Closest thing in recent times is maybe Demons Souls
This happened to me lmao i went to sleep at 5 am using the same character
Here's my "glass shattered" moment. I used to be that "God" when I was in High school. I was unbeatable among my friends at Smash Bros Melee. One day, I heard that at a local arcade they were gonna run a melee tournament and thought that I was gonna win it for sure... That was the first time I ever saw advance technices such as wavedashing and L canceling and my mind was fucking blown. Since than I saw how to do all this and was a steady member of my local scene from 2007 to 2018. And dear god it was a blast.
From there I also started competing in 3rd strike, SFIV/USFIV and MvC3/UmvC3.
@@Embusterito did you compete in 2010s melee tournament saw cawn?
@@xiopia3940 have you ever had an original thought, or do you just regurgitate everyone else's jokes in hopes that someone will take enough pity to laugh?
THe floor system has actually been pretty intersetin:
I fought my way up to the 10th floor; by that point, i've been making my steady climb from floor 6 on, and was feelin pretty confident.
And then I met a *really good Chipp* and a *really good Sol* and that was essentially my wall. They were hitting me with attacks I didn't have an answer to, and my defenses and offense were equally stifled.
I've been playing fighting games for...*god knows how long*, but I've been hitting a bit of a lull for some time. I'm the kind that looks to keep going even if I *do* get blown the fuck up. Now, with those losses, it sent my rating down, and I was given the prompt to move. I *Stayed* and continued to either fight this Chipp or Sol, or fight others that were high level, taking any minor breakthroughs I could and trying to run with them.
While the floor system is definitely there to match you up against the right folks, it doesn't necessarily punish you if you want to keep going. It's allowed me to actually pick up on some things and expand my arsenal with Gio to the point I want to make my way back up there properly and challenge folks again!
For someone getting back into fighters, this system's *really* solid for training!
This was incredibly helpful. Thank you for all these details!
I really like that they let you fight at the higher floors whenever you like, and also that they don’t boot you when you get downgraded.
There was a specific breed of braindead Ken in the silver ranks of SFV that I hated playing against SO MUCH, but I don’t mind losing to good players at all. I always feel like I learn something.
@@jonmkl that’s 100% what I hated about playing smash online the most (ik, some don’t even consider it a fighting game in the first place lol). I have no problem losing to a good player. But losing to bullshit and brain dead strats or poor netcode was the most frustrating shit ever.
In addition, I like going to higher floors just to see what kind of crazy bullshit other people will do with certian charatcers if they're good.
Hell, that's how I learned to use Faust at least semi-correctly.
the "let new players make cool sh!t" argument sounds like such a no-brainer but gets ignored by so many publishers
"Casual" is such a trigger word in the FGC 😂
It is what it is.
Well, if you think about it, these "casual" (let's be real, they're "noobs") players were not born to play Street Fighter 2 or its series of 1990s, Mortal Kombat, and many other fighting games of 1990s. We (the youth of the 1990s) were born with that "killer instinct" (no pun intended) of wanting to win. Since after 2008, things have been... "pussified" and has gone downhill from there.
@@SlickRick4EVER Ok boomer
The FGC sucks in general, this guy up above my comments is a good example
Its because the FGC consists mostly of idiots with delusions of grandeur. Those idiots than get mad when people who don't eat sleep and play fighting games play them because it reminds them their not the chosen race because the push buttons
As a new Guilty Gear player, I am having a lot of fun with the game. It’s a great change from street fighter and Tekken to me. It feels very liberating to have so much freedom with RCs and just stuff I can do. It’s very fun. I think your argument of it being dumbed down I have no basis to comment on as I never played previous entries, but you seem to really enjoy playing it from the few streams I’ve seen of you playing it.
xrd was nutty
I mean by other games standards strive is still wild AF in comparison. But previous games were truly bullshit blazing.
Yeah, he said it himself he still enjoys strive and likes everything else about the game except the excessive removal of specials and mechanics in order to appeal to casual players. It is something he would have liked from the start but it isn't a deal breaker for him in this game. Especially because he found characters, like Sol, to be very fun to play.
Old school gg like accent core is insane with everything basically being a cancel on its own.
Xrd toned that down, strive has the least free form combo options of all GG.
@@billyj.causeyvideoguy7361 i miss forcebreaks
I've had a ton of friends get into fighting games bc of Strive
Here's why:
1. It looks cool (characters and style)
2. It looks like fun
3. Other friends have fun playing it
4. Netcode is so good that they can play with basically anyone
Simplification comes in after because people just see "hot damn that art looks good" first
Facts
I'm getting into it today after seeing stuff in my recommended and yeah the first 2 points and the 4th points are what are really driving me to play it, ex smash player and I fucking hated online
I love the changes to Strive. Games go so fast so losses don't go on for ages like DBZ. I love not having to watch myself get comboed for 20 minutes
Ah but you see doing the combo is fun
I agree, I’d fall asleep watching a combo in that game.
@@RicochetForce ey man it's the nature of the game. I enjoy watching characters combo routes and the differences and freedom players have making them.
True. But this game does have near endless block strings on some characters that can keep you stuck in the corner for entire rounds.
@@tunaburn2330 and you probably only gonna see that shit in a match in heaven
I watched the stream and Max legit talked for 1.45+ hrs and it was great. Provided a lot of insight, it felt like I was listening to a really good podcast.
Max's real talks are deadass some of his best content. Man has wisdom and he doesn't sugarcoat or talk down to people to get his points across.
@@KaiZenAmen Agreed. His knowledge and passion for the subject are impressive. Always enjoy listening to his rants.
@@michaelwaring1028 i cannot express how much i idolize this man.. i really admire him and wanna be the person he is now when im his age. max is truly inspirational
Indeed, i kinda wish he posted the real thing here.
This was very short and to the point but that nearly 2 hour talk reveals so much more.
The mission mode does a great job of teaching you how to play the game, but that does NOT make it casual. Learning a skill and applying it are two VERY different things.
First off that is misinterpreting what he said, it does not MAKE it casual, but it does act as a simpler more stream lined LEARNING curve for players. Point there being learning, it is not meant to teach you to apply it and simply cannot. Teaching someone to apply things is simply not possible through any way other than practice and experimentation. You can learn how to throw a perfect punch but no amount of teaching will teach you how to use it in a fight. Because there are too many scenarios and things that have to be learned through the experience gained in a fight. Why I think (think being the important word here) it does make it better for casual palyers is that it teaches them how to do it and usually shows them an example application. It doesn't do it perfectly, I think it pulls back a bit too much near the end but it does it well. And it provides all of this without forcing the player. It lets the player decide how deep they want to delve. I think this kind of got away from my desired point but to sum it up, I don't think it needs to teach application to be considered casual, I think it does a lot of great things for casual players.
@@sorrowfgc I was saying that I think it’s good for exactly that reason. I was not saying it’s bad.
I have exactly two big problems with mission mode: 1) It's called mission mode and not tutorial. 2) They teach you about chip damage in 4-start difficulty missions.
@@KuroNoTenno I agree with both of these, *especially* the latter
@@KuroNoTenno I mean do you remember the tutorial in Xrd Sign? Like wow, they frontloaded so much stuff in that Grandfather and Grandson bonding time.
As a casual who spent years before hitting gold in SFV, that game only ever gave me pain, but Strive has been an absolute blast! Capcom should be embarrassed. This is easily the most fun I’ve had with a fighting game since 3S.
I take it you were born after 1996....
What's 3S?
@@pikachuattack542 3rd Strike
My man! I too had tons of fun with 3rd strike and I'm hell of a fun time playing Strive as well. Just had 3 hours fly by playing earlier today.
@@OzonebxGaming what's easy for one person could be impossibly hard for someone else. You just make yourself look like a jerk when you say stuff like that.
The "game is easier now" was actually a selling point for me. I already have a difficult game to deal with, Tekken 7, and hearing that "Strive combos are shorter than Xrd" was a huuuge selling point to me cayse I remember trying the free BBTag weekend during Evo some years ago and trying to do a single combo with any character in the trials was impossible to me (and I already lose a lot of matches in T7 cause my opponent used my mistakes to launch me for 50% combo twice and I launched him 3 times but my combos were only 30% so he won anyway).
The floor system is designed really well, I was worried it wouldn't work but no, it works. You can feel a distinct skill level difference on each floor (and I went through 1 and 2 before hitting 3 yesterday you can notice skill level differences on each floor). Since it doesn't seem to be designed around a number of wins/losses but more around how you win/lose I think, or at least that's the feel I got. On the lat day on 2nd floor I felt like I'm starting to stomp the opponents and game just shoved me a floor higher midway through a set.
Yeah, it was a big selling point for me as well. If it needed Xrd combos I'd maybe have bought it, but these shorter combos appeals to me more (Soul Calibur was my main fighting game, but never got the juggle combo stuff down there)
It's still a bit of an issue by between floor 6 and 8, if you're not making use of good RC combos you'll just not get the damage out compared to your opponent unless you completely outplay them in neutral, but even then the combos you need to practice are generally not too difficult unless you want the really fancy shit, it's just a matter of figuring out where to put them in.
Lol. Tekken 7 is the eaaasiest Tekken has ever been.
You must reaaally suck, but😂 good for you, you're having fun at least
I won 5 games and the game already put me on floor 8 lol. Then I went to parks and started to lose to other 8 but then adapted and now I think I'm on that level. But yeah it's insane how fast you can climb on this game
School takes all my time and when I heard that my friends called this a fast past sf5 (easier combos and neutral based) , I jumped on instantly. Though the people who say easier stuff to do is a selling point is a very small niche and shouldn’t come at a cost of the higher levels of play and mind games. But if your making a game already from able established franchise and you want to make the execution easier, you have to add other stuff to make people happy. Rivals of aether is a prime example of this. They made melees stuff easier. So they added more to what the characters could do. If you don’t do this, it won’t work
@@SoloKrypton egos are paired with the worst of players, dont hurt yourself
Strive has been fun for me.
Gatlings being gone is a big part of how short high damage combos and big chonky single hits are able to exist. Gatlings force you to balance expected damage around players using those, reducing damage from individual buttons, but with the gatlings gone they can put more damage into the buttons themselves, causing damage to be higher for new/lower level players who aren't going to be using those chains reliably.
Its basically taking gg normals and replacing them with samsho normals.
@@billyj.causeyvideoguy7361 it is. The game reminds me more of samsho than gg, which is both good and bad.
@@scott1285 Its more neutral game than an oppresive combo focused game.
@@jantran5349 which as a new player I appreciate because I have been carried corner to corner and tossed thru wall after wall from players way more skilled than me who can land those combos successfully but I can also square off against people at my skill level and still feel like I'm doing something impactful
@@LulutheJester
That's why I always say, in my own content, that the gameplay flow is the most important factor for retaining new players.
More time, per round, should be spent in player interactions rather than being locked down by pressure or stuck in combos that take away all interactivity.
That's why I champion games that are designed around, or even force, more interactions and neutral. Games like the entire Virtua Fighter series, Soul Calibur entries before SC5, Tekken entries before T7, Samurai Shodown 2 & 5, Street Fighter Alpha 2 and 3rd Strike, Dead or Alive 6, Blade Strangers, Punch Planet, heck even Fantasy Strike.
Interaction is the cornerstone on which all head-to-head competitive games and sports are built upon.
The more offense-oriented and combo-heavy the game, the less meaningful interactions and mindgames occur per round. And the fighting game genre spent about 15 years moving in that direction, at the requests of the niche, which lead to the negative spiral of the genre's approachability.
Im loving strive. Giovanna is my main cuz she reminds me of cammy so i felt right at home. My only gripe with the game is it takes like 10 minutes just to get to the main menu
I have that same issue on the main menu but no one else I know does so I'm curious, what device are you on?
I'm on PC and have been wondering if it's a Windows 7 issue, if you're on something else I guess it might just be more of a general issue.
@@DWFTW well, I'm playing on my pc as well, and, it takes a bomb of time to get in the main menu, I'm playing with some friends and we are all suffering from the same problem, I think it is a issue on the game by itself
and I have a pretty nice computer, I can run a lot of nowadays games, sooo.....
The wait is not any loading of the game, so how good your computer is is no gonna change it. It's all about authentications and whatnot with the online server, so it's all about internet and ArcSys servers.
The same thing used to happen in DBFZ, but in a later patch they added the option to start the game offline in case maybe you jsut wanted to do some training or play local with a friend.
Try opening the game, disconnect from your internet and then press the button on the title screen. You will see how much faster you can get into the game.
@@DWFTW I'm on PS4 and the connecting to server message that pops up every time I boot up the game lasts several minutes. I think it's an actual issue on the developer's end rather than anything to do with our systems
The direction Strive has taken is absolutely the way to go. The game was was getting insanely bloated and complicated. All crazy shit did was Gatekeep people from playing the game. Top and high level players will say, "At the top level of play, it's all the mental game." Yet, they complain that the game has become easier from a mechanical perspective. The decision making is still there, skill absolutely matters, but you don't have to take a 4 year course on how to play it. I've been playing fighting games since SF2 Turbo, and I've been playing GG since X2. Strive is a masterstroke, the FGC will see it in time.
Preach bro. Its still generates most numbers GG has ever seen. And this is just the start. I can see number goes up even more.
Later prob playerbase gonna drop ofc like all other fighting game but most likely "stablilized playerbase" will still be pretty good.
The people who bitch about the game being simpler are the no life losers that are mad that there precious video game is being played by more people so there no longer "special"
It didnt gatekeep anything, the lack of ranked did that. The amount of combos dont matter when your opponent is the same skilllevel and wont do a 40 hit string anyway. You simply dont understand how crucial playing against a equal skilled opponent is so you think simplification is strives success.
@@lunaticmode638 It absolutely gatekept people; games like Marvel, Xrd, TFH, and Power Rangers feel really bad to play at low level, period. If you're facing someone well above your level, you realize that single hits take >60-70% (in Power Rangers' case, 100%) of your health and generate like 3+ bars of meter, which makes you realize how the game is *supposed* to be played. If you play with people down at your opening skill level who can barely do gatlings, you'll feel like two kids in a pool noodle fight flailing around and doing no damage or anything cool.
These games pound home one single message. Do you want to actually play? Hit the lab, put in your hours, then come back and maybe you can start playing. People are *finally* rebelling against that crappy mentality, and fighting games are slowly getting better as a result. Individual hits matter, toolkits and combos are more intuitive with more generous timings. Lab requirement time is being cut, and newcomers and the genre in general is better for it.
The only people who hate this kinda thing are lab monsters. And don't get me wrong, there'll always be lab monster games...but hopefully, they're done with their stranglehold over the whole damn genre.
@@Gemini_Hero I mean the people who put in the work deserve to be on top thats what ur missing in ur little rant. And its good new players are coming on but if u think the lab monster wont be at the top the ur very mistaken. U put in work u claim the reward its simple.
Everyone: Is guilty gear strive too easy QuEsTIoNmArK??
Me: who's new to Fighting games and struggles to complete 3-star missions after a week...ok.
You can do it! I believe in you!
People were and will say that every new game is too easy and noob friendly, you can safely ignore all of this and keep playing
You have to remember that the only people complaining about it being 'simple' play fighting games either professionally or for an audience for hours each day. Those people as well as their fans who don't know anything but just parrot their hero's talking points. I was really annoyed how many people were complaining without ever having played Strive (and in a lot of cases, GG at all)
@Motoko Futanagi The 3 frame buffer window in this game really does make wake up reversal options difficult.
@Motoko Futanagi I will lteach u, np. U have 3 frames to press button, u can input motion before that. U just need to time your reversal button after dp motion within that 3 frame window. Hope it makes it easier, it's still hard tho.
Honestly compared to other recent games that were "casualized", Strive still feels pretty true to the GG essence. I think strive finally did what other franchises hope to do to bring casual players in. I can see Strive going the mile, but we'll see I guess.
Yeah it kept the essence alright no air battles. Get lost clown. You are apart of the problem.
This is true. One of the reasons why a lot of casuals usually never like most fighting games is that they aren't friendly for beginners/casuals
@@lukelaser5397 Bro said air battles
Yea the start seems promising, its best sales and playerbase GG has ever been.
@@kei7540 Lol
This game is the most Guilty Gear I've played since XX. It's a lot of fun.
Means something to me. Me and my brother played XX to death, gonna need to pick it up.
@@Swordmaster7th I wish I hadn't sold mine back then, but I needed money. I miss XX. The branching paths in the story/arcade mode was a lot of fun to figure out.
@@ThirteenOhEight you can get it on steam and it has rollback net code now its great
@@superluismigueL100 I have one of them on Steam. I haven't even bothered to play it though. Maybe this weekend. Thanks.
Rollback netcode has to be an absolute priority for any future fighting game titles. No matter how the games are, good connection will make that experience 100 times better.
The simplification of mechanics doesn't encourage new players to try the game, but it undoubtedly contribute to the fact that those players who try the game keep playing for longer.
If the mechanics of Strive were the same as Xrd, all these new players would bounce off the execution barrier, because for a new player a lot of the basic techniques from this game seem impossible to do.
Strive hasn't been oversimplified. It's just very well suited for new players while retaining enough for most old players. ASW has undoubtedly been successful.
6th Reason: the music is great and the story mode it's like seeing an anime.
Honestly I doubt many people will even bother with the story mode.
@@KuroNoTenno I think i'm the only one xD
If they add instant kills it's a 100000000000/10
@@leithazizpagy4699 Same. I just feel...attacked.
Like, the story is pretty good, ngl.
@@Amdor3 No, I'm here too.
I gotta be honest, Strive is some of the most fun I've had playing a fighting game.
And I wouldn't even call myself a casual.
Made me pick up the grappler for the first time ever in my fighting game experience (been playing on and off for like 10ish years), and having to learn a whole new architype of character has made Strive a goddamn pleasure to play. Especially learning how to make the roman cancel system work in my favor.
@@Waffersforever There is only Potemkin.
@@Waffersforever Potemkin is the only correct choice. Well done.
I'll be honest I hated DBFZ. I tried to get into it many times and that game just never hooked me. But I recognized even back then that DBFZ was ArcSys' most successful project ever and anything that followed could surf that wave of success for a damn long time. The fact that Strive is also GOOD is just more wind in their sails (also sales).
With games like DBFZ is the obnoxious 2minute combos. oh i hit you, time for a 1-2 min combo conversion, shit now you hit me now i watch a 1-2 min conversion. You literally don't play the game while you are being comboed. Short combos are actually good in my opinion.
This is the first fighting game I’ve played with my girlfriend that’s had her excited enough to wanna learn more about the actual mechanics instead of just mashing buttons. Idc what anyone says, GG has done the introducing new players thing the best so far. I’ve seen gameplay from the older games now though, and I instantly get some of the disappointment of the veterans. But it’s still great.
From what I’ve seen the FGC is very elitist so I understand why so many people are angry.
Sooooo true!
@@incessantpraiz5029 theres elitist in every single genre of Gaming pls dont apply that to most of us as most of us really try to help and teach new ppl the ropes.
@@Dark_Necromancer Granted those folks are vocal and loud. They're are all over social media and forums too
@@Dark_Necromancer In all fairness I wasn't implying that at all...but you have to admit there is a certain amount of static that comes up when devs want to make their games more accessible
@@incessantpraiz5029 Those are probably ppl that cant adapt to whats coming new As a Vet at MKX i didnt like MK11s Krushing blow system one bit so i went to DBFZ and now im loving strive but some ppl call this new system Simple it is but it also has Depth and self expression when it comes to Roman cancels and Combo routes you can really tell who's behinde the stick but i also understand those are the same ppl that give the FGC that lvl of intimidation and on there behalf and for there Elitisim i humbly say im sry and to not let that sway anyone from becoming part of the FGC.
I'm new to fighters as a whole and I FLIPPING LOVE Strive. It feels like other fighters revel in their complexity and high bar for entry but Strive tells new people, "Hey no worries this is what I'm all about. Here's how you do this and here's how you do that." It's a game that's welcoming and easy to pick up but then start to see the layers and the complexity.
This game's only "limit" is how you decide to use the tools at your disposal.
I just love the name Strive too. It wants you to get better to climb the tower and even when you're at the top you can still always be better.
My personal preference though is to learn by getting my ass kicked by floor 8+ people.
This is, indeed, the most important video that Max have done. He defines the recepi for a good fighting game and finally ends the eternal fight between pros and casuals, merging them in one community, fighting games players that plays with people of their same level, no matter if the skills are superficial or deep, both can enjoy.
The hype around Strive reminds me of the early days of SF4 and what felt like a little FGC golden age. I hope this game is widely embraced and stays prominent for years.
I’m not entirely casual, I can hold my own, but still get my ass handed to me more than I can count, but honestly I enjoy the game and learn a lot each match. Hell I learned to be more patient and change up my game plan on the fly. Game’s fun af and does help a person get into fighters if they’re willing to learn.
For me, at least I know why I lose at this point and that helps my mindspace
As an og guilty gear head who started with X. In glad strive is popular. GG almost died several times, to see it be a big deal after all these years is awesome.
However! I friggin miss the old gatling system.
I want to p into low hs as ky so damn much. SO DAMN MUCH!
RIP 5K>5S>5H>2D
My main has always been Millia ever since XX. Her new kit took some real getting used to, but I'm starting to find my new groove and get some new bread and butter combos down.
I watched you play it on stream during early release, so I took the plunge. It's terrific, makes me a little angry that I never got into the rest of the series. Also, 80% of the population is on 5F or lower? I'm shocked and I really needed to hear that. :)
Wait really? I thought most people were on like 6 and 7 it’s definitely felt like that
Honestly made me feel pretty good. I'm straight newb to fighting games and just hit 5 so I'll take that as a win.
What!? I mean.. cook that people can play at that skill level and have fun but floor 5 is straight Weenie Hut Jr.
I feel like a bully with Potemkin if I get tossed back down to floor 7.. can't imagine going down to floor 5.
Max is probably saying that hyperbolically
This has been brought up on my podcast so many times, most recently in discussion with ShinKensou, and I'll be making a video on it soon. It's such an important thing that biased people overlook.
"Easy to learn" is the key to getting people in the door, "hard to master" is the key to appealing to the hardcore.
However, the genre historically has failed at retaining the non-hardcore, due to being difficult to learn, lacking non-competitive content, not teaching well (dense, front-loaded tutorials are NOT good teaching tools) and one last aspect: The game flow and gameplay speed.
Over the last 15-ish years, as fighting games became more niche and started having less and less choice than to pander to the niche, the genre shifted into the offense meta era.
By becoming increasingly fast-paced, oppressively offense-oriented, and nerfing/removing playstyles such as zoning, foosties/poking, keepout, etc. the game feel became something that pushed away more people than were drawn in across the board.
The game feel is insanely important and greatly overlooked by the FGC, because well-balanced game flow is not what the FGC wants. The hardcore competitive scene wants faster gameplay, more mechanics, more complexity, more explosively oppressive offense, etc and get bored far too quickly of anything else. But that has ultimately been bad for the bottom line of those who develop and publish the games.
I've found that many people I know, who don't play fighting games, enjoy titles like Strive, Virtua Fighter, older SoulCal, and older Tekken. Why?
Game feel. Those games are slower, have shorter combos, have intuitive feeling canned strings/dial-a-combo/target combos that are never really long, as well as have a game flow that facilitates more interactions per round and less time spent in blockstun or hitstun.
Again:
- More interactions per round.
- Less time spent in blockstun while the opponent tries to open you up.
- Less time spent stuck in long combos with all interactivity removed, other than burst or waiting for a drop/reset.
These are the keys to a gameplay flow that feels good to the type of people who have generally been off-put by the genre as a whole.
It's a universal game design standard that players of all skill levels should be in control of their character and able to have their character do something when they press a button, for greatly more gameplay time when compared to the time spent with control taken away.
It's bad game design to allow control to be taken away from players of any skill level, even in competitive games.
However, fighting games have oft been treated as an exception to the rule, as if the genre exists in a vacuum. But that's just not true.
ArcSys have finally figured this out, as evident by their attempts with GBVS and culminating in Strive. Even if damage numbers are high, the duration of pressure and combos are shorter, which gives Strive a game feel that does not push away as many people as most post-2009 fighting games have. It's the same type of gameplay that makes VF and 3D fighters feel good to non-hardcore.
Then, if you have plenty of depth in ways other than the surface level fundamentals, the result is a game that retains new players and has the depth that the competitive want too.
The FGC just has to stop insisting that everything be faster and more immediately complex, and getting mad when a new fighting game doesn't cater specifically to them in every way, so that the devs and publishers can actually find that balance.
ArcSys only got it right in Strive because they stuck to their guns despite the angry portion of the niche. I just hope they keep sticking to their guns and don't listen too much to the negative feedback, otherwise Strive could go south real quick.
I was pissed at how long this comment is. But then I was happy because you fucking nailed it, dude. Well said.👏👏👏
@@kenninitro44
Thanks. Lol
That's why I'm starting work on videos, to get these concepts across more clearly and concisely than is really possible with mere text. It's just not possible to break it down, in enough detail, with social media length posts designed for short attention spans.
I'm not a fighting game player, like watching streamers but I don't play them. I bought this because it's gorgeous. Visually stunning, I couldn't not get it.
Even if you just play single player or couch 2 player. This game is worth it, awesome game.
I remember when I first got MK9. Hadn't played a fighting game in years and never that seriously but thought I might try with this one. Booted up online vs and proceeded to get perfected by a Sub-Zero with over a thousand games won multiple times in a row and it just kept matching me against him. It honestly put me off of online fighting games for years. Matchmaking can make a very important first impression.
As someone who started on the second floor; I can say without shame this game has massively improved my skill.
Same, it put me on floor 6 and after 3 matches I locked out at floor 4 and am fighting people of similar skill lvl while winning and losing but always knowing of ways to improve.
I kind wanted to get into GGStrive, but GG seems to have a high skill curve. I'm curious about this video 👀 I am casual
If you find the characters and the visuals cool, then I'd recommend it to you.
This game is designed for casual players so I think is worth to try.
I also consider myself a casual in that I am trying to learn, but I play less frequently as others and mostly just wanna play. I never played GG before until Strive, and lemme tell you Strive has a pretty good entry barrier for newcomers.
Lots of players around your level, good netcode, good matchmaking system, and the Mission Mode teaches you a lot of how this game works too. The Tower System is where you'll fight players of your level, but at the park the range of skill level is much more free. The nice thing is that this game offers a lot, but you can ease your way in with all the mechanics. I'm enjoying myself and learning far more in a steadier pace than I did with Dragon Ball Fighterz (it was overwhelming so I dropped it).
Don't worry about the skill curve, you don't know what you don't know.
Don't look at the top level play, you'll never meet those people. You'll be stuck in the lower who will be doing the same things you do.
Strive is built to segregate casual player from the real killers in a smart way. You'll he fine.
Play it, right now is the best time to
i agree with alot of points that were made in the stream. i still don't think the interpretation of "be on the same playing field of higher players" was seen correctly. new players cant beat people that always play fighting games obviously. but I think they were referring to the game being Foreign to everyone even returning players. with how the game has no gattlings and various other gameplay changes and how match-making works I think they succeeded.
This análises was amazing. Thanks!
Max should know a lot new Guilty Gear players come from him as well. He's always had high praise for GG in discussions, and watching him play FighterZ played a huge part of it.
I watched a variety streamer who plays 200 games per year of every single genre pick up Strive, go into mission mode and learnt stuff. Then went through all characters to talk about how cool they look and checked out all their moves. She then went online and only got to floor 4 but she had fun, we then proceeded to watch all 5 hours of story mode with 7000-8000 chat together and had a great time. Strive is doing really well and new players are enjoying the game, it's a sucessful game and that's great.
mind sharing the twitch user? I just like to watch new players enjoy the game
@@jesseperez4185 She's saddummy on twitch, she plays 200+ games every year so doesn't have a permanent game outside of League.
Tried pasting a link to the vod but youtube blocked it, so here's the title of the vod she put on youtube: 역대급 애니메이션 그래픽으로 돌아온 레전드 액션게임 - 길티기어 스트라이브 (GUILTY GEAR STRIVE)
You can also find all 5 hours of the story mode watch party in the channel.
Goku is the hero of Strive confirmed
Great video Max.
The Main things for a Fighting Game and getting Casuals too check it out, is Visuals, Content, Gameplay and most importantly Word of Mouth plus Good Online n Balancing are important, when Casuals are Hooked and trying too Learn get Better and having Fun Playing the Game.
that ending song though lovely piece of work
Hoping to see the update of Rate the Theme of GGStrive, rather from the Preview.
Hearing Love the Subhuman Self and Let Me Carve Your Way back to back is a whole emotional experience.
I freaking LOVE the damage in Strive. Fighting game moves should HURT; you're expending ki, energy, strength, whatever in order to hit the opponent - the hell sense does it make for a literal ball of energy to do like 8% of your health? Dafuq? Wish more games would embrace higher damage and quicker matches, as real fights don't last but an average of what, 30 seconds or so?
The only person I've seen like this mechanic, but I love you for saying this.
If a match is over in less than a minute it would get extremely boring. It’s a fucking game where people can be launched 50 feet in the air, throw magic projectiles, and live. It’s not supposed to be like “actual fighting”.
You’re trying to compare real fights to fights with people that can fling each other through buildings and barely scratch each other?
Great video Max
Hi I am a new player here!
I absolutely agree on the getting bodied bit, I hate the feeling of being bodied hard when jumping into fighting games, but Strive not only helped me learn things with it's in depth tutorials, but the fact I had similar level players to actually get a word in edgewise for once and actually learn what I am doing.
So far this has easily become the fighting game I am best at and understand the most of, and I still have a lot to learn, but I am excited to learn it.
And when I hear that the movesets were simplified, it sucks to hear for veterans of the series, but for myself at least, it's already overwhelming with the options I have, albeit I understand new players shouldn't be the thing catered to entirely, it definitely did help me a lot, and it hit a certain sweet spot for me.
Anyways, great video!
2:20 personally for me as a bab to guilty gear, while the thousand of hours too git gud is still there. It feels much more approachable and less intimidating. Especially with things like mission mode, the recordable combos in training mode, and even the generally really good AI makes it FEEL more approachable. If that makes any sense idk
I think that it's also the fact that fighting games are becoming more and more mainstream. Alot of gamers are now trying out fighting games and with Strive having a good foundation and being the "new kid", I see that as a reason as to why Strive and Guilty Gear as a whole is getting more popular.
Also with the rona its been making ppl invest more time, and ppl are figuring out that fighting games are deep.
Also with actual good net code, and that dbfz fame
Just got to floor 7. Thanks for making me feel good max!
"My dream was jump into GG after one week and kick the shi-et out of, let's say, Dogura. And today finally I made it real.
Thank you Arc System Works."
Don't be ridiculous, people.
a bunch of my friends who never played any fighting games are interested because of how batshit insane the story is
"who is this guitar witch lady and why did she ask the British man to stroke her big tree?"
"oh yeah that's ino, she's like that all the time. also she's like 3,000 years old"
The RC system refinements were excellent. I think Wallbreak was a great competitive move and casual friendly too. Dumbing down the gatling system is actually anti-casual, because its fun to do combos. It doesn’t feel good to find out moves don’t link.
Extremely well said. Thanks, Max.
Wow, I posted nearly all of those words earlier on Dan's tweet and hearing you say the literal same things is just sending me
Funny thing: this game was also advertised pretty big, lol. More people know about Strive than about Guilty Gear.
Mission mode is done SO, SO well for new players without making it too easy to get good at. If you've ever tried the invulnerable move reversal mission you know what i'm talking about. Really made me appreciate this game above most other fighting games because of that. They show you the subtle nuances of their mechanics even if they're incredibly hard to pull off, without dumbing it down... they just made it ACCESSIBLE. Personally I think this is brilliant.
Maximilian sos un capo aguante tu canal
That is.... extremely well put. This is a video people can show there friends to kind of talk them into getting and playing strive and overtime getting them into other fighting games.
This is my first fighting game I’m trying to dump a lot of time into and so far I’m having a lot of fun. Doing tower match’s to fight people at my skill level has been great and then going into casual match’s to learn what higher level players are doing and adding it to my play style has been super fun and rewarding. Hope to see heaven some day.
The game is also super fun offline. Like GG has always been. Not everyone cares to play online most of the time.
I wish there was a bit more to do/modes. I love fighting games as a concept and the focus on characters with depth of moves but usually its all very MP focused. MP is cool sometimes but I do like playing alone.
I've always wanted to get into a fighting game. Tried several over the years but always get bogged down or demoralized by training by myself and having no direction.
I picked this game up in part because of your video here. Here's to another try!
Feels surreal seeing Rivals of Aether in a Max video but I'm so glad to see it. Would love to see a video or stream of you playing it!
I wanted to go through the mission mode to learn the mechanics and after an hour my mind already swelled with Roman cancels and all other stuff. It’s pretty intuitive when you learn all of that, but I do agree that they made a great job of refining what’s already there to balance the complexity and ease of getting into the game. Anything more and that’ll be too much for a lot of player. Yet, the game is still complex and has a lot to offer in terms of depth.
Can we appreciate the voice tuned moments with grey screen? it's a nice spice xD
Yo, that diaper bag kit at 4:58. lololol...WE KNOW YOUR SEARCH HISTORY MAX!
Just started playing fighting games for the first time last week. Having a blast!
Yes, matchmaking is really important. This is the first fighting game I'm trying seriously and in all my matches I felt that the rival is around my level. I'll add that I'm having a lot of re-matchs too, so that is a sign that we both consider the match fair and want to keep trying one more time to beat the set.
Max's point about Dragon Ball FighterZ is dead on.
I bought Strive purely off the fact that I had so much fun with FighterZ and wanted to support ArcSys' next project.
And I am having a BLAST with Strive.
High five bro
TBH what brought me in to GG Strive was the music and character design/animation, I just stayed for the gameplay
nice video Max!
One example that you may agree with.
Monster Hunter. It always had a convoluted, hidden mechanics, etc. When world released most long time people said this is casual Monster Hunter. As it turned out, just because there are improvement and streamlined mechanics doesn’t make it easy mode. MH did a fantastic job of gathering new players and challenging long time players at the same time
Maybe I'm reaching or reading to deep into this comment, I'm someone who never played a MH game in my life until world and then picked up rise which now waiting till August to play again because of how things are right now, are you saying that just like with world which as a complete nobody to MH and I got to the end that perhaps it's worth checking out GG strive Because "quality of life" or stuff from olde GG games has now been more "streamlined" so that newer players or people who have never played a GG in their life will I guess to put in my understanding of how I got through MHW, I had no idea what I was doing but over time I learned everything and especially a style that worked for me a system that worked for and I had an absolute blast with which I played MHW all the way through.if your telling me that simply if I was down to check out MHW as a nobody to the series, are you saying now is definitely the best time as a nobody to GG to jump into strive? I don't expect to get good or kick ass I'm just looking for "fun" to put it simply. and if I can find that as I did with MHW in a certain way considering that this is a fighting game now MH but still.
@@maximilian3394 Oh yeah, for sure. Max said it himself, a huuuge portion of the player base is beneath Floor 6 in the ladder, so it's not like you're going to be heading off against Pro players constantly. I'd say give it a try and see if the mechanics are fun enough for you to play it casually, or even really get in to it.
This is also exactly why the success of smash is so big, it's easy to get into but if you try to get into competitive you'll see how stupid deep it's system goes
Yup
90% of the people who play Smash don't even touch competitive type play. If competitive was removed, it'd still be crazy popular.
This is the first fighting game since Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3 that I've put more than 5 hours into, and I've had a lot of fun trying to pick up the basics as Ramlethal. I got ranked at floor 4 when I got into the online but dropped to rank 3, but I've been practicing in the park and in the training room against CPUs, as well as practicing getting inputs to be more consistent.
It's nerve-racking to play online, but I'm doing my best to challenge myself mainly because youtubers like you make fighting games look like so much fun. Thanks for being a great channel, Max.
Well said Max I agree with you whole heartedly
I could now write a whole essay about how a friend of mine ended up playing ggst - BUT thats nothing you want read. So long story short:
After his first day in strive he wrote me "DAMN you can fucking feel Sabrubato from Ramlethal". What he meant by that was, that the move is in all aspects perfectly designed. the visual, the animation, the sound, th damage it makes everything together make the move feel hard - like it should be. He enjoys the game as of now, because everything feels like it looks. If your move looks like its hard hitting - IT IS hard hitting.
Strive has the best freaking overall presentation he (and also I) saw in a fighting game.
I come from xrd. Sol never was specially appealing for me at all until Strive... But now feedback from his moves feels great. Rather than "angry man launches lots of fire and punches combo" it feels like "a retired hero, but strong, you can see he hits shorter combos but does em like a truck". Specially f.s and hs, the vibe is so satisfaying.
What’s up, notification squad? That said, I was actually there for the stream.
Speaking personally, I got into fighting games with MvC1 when I was a little kid. It wasn’t the mechanics being easy or hard that got me, it was Spider-Man being able to beat up Mega Man. That said, I feel like it’s kind of hard for franchises like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat to have large rosters from the start considering that they start from scratch for every numbered entry. As for the mechanics, yeah, that stuff gets busted wide open later on compared to the initial launch.
That is awesome. I hadn’t heard about matchmaking. Now I might get it
im casual af with fighting games. but loveee watching and following the FGC (hence me watching this channel lol). Max hit this right on the head for how i feel!
I personally recently got into strive because of the music. I feel like its a little overlooked but when ever I hear some good ass music ill figure out what its from and look into it. Ive known about guilty gear before hearing the music, but after I found it I saw character design, the style of animation, the amazing graphics and thats what made me buy the game.
"Dragon Ball Fighterz(s) put Arc System Works on the Map."
Me Cries in Discovering Arc through BlazBlue Calamity Trigger for 360.
Their track record is solidly above average in their niche. They know what they're doing, it's not for everyone though.
Thanks, Max, for the analysis. I found your views on this game and its effect on the current Fighting game scene very insightful.
I’ve always tried fighting games, MK and SF never kept me interested. Watching your gameplay two things stood out to me- it was incredibly impressive and looked difficult, but I could UNDERSTAND the game by looking at it. Obviously I couldn’t do what I was seeing, but I could actually tell what mechanics did by looking at them, something that I never was able to do in other games. I’m hooked
Strive is fun. When charecters have so many tools, especially tools that cover their weaknesses...then what's the point of having archetypes? I like that theres a clear distinction now.
My favorite part about Strive is when I watch someone at a higher skill level play, and do combos, I can understand what they are actually doing. In a lot of fighting games you see someone do huge 20 hit combos and you just can’t comprehend what’s even going on.
You're the man, Dood
*barely leaving the intro*
Yo is that Home sweet Grave?!