'Oumuamua Is at the Heart of an Ongoing Battle Raging Within the Scientific Community... Again
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
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#darkcomets #oumuamua #astrum
dark comet, avi loeb, darryl seligman, oumuamua, astrum
It just boggles my mind that we are able to spot 3 metre objects millions of kms away and analyse them in such detail
Science baby!
And they can't find any trace of who Stashed Cocaine in one of the Most Secure buildings on the Planet the US White House !
*I guess when you don't want the Public to know the Real Answers...you don't even ask the questions !*
Yet CCTV footage has 144p resolution
@@WilliamFord972 that used to be true lol
thats only what the people in control told us to believe
Oumuamua reminded me so much of the book "Rendezvous with Rama" by Arthur C Clarke. There's an object in that novel that shares some physical characteristics with Oumuamua.
The humans in the book dub the object Rama, and divert a spacecraft to study it. Rama turns out to be a mysterious, alien spacecraft. The story focuses on the crew's exploration of the vessel, and what little they discover about it, but most of it is still a mystery. They surmise that Rama is on some unknown mission, and was using our sun's gravity the way we use planetary gravity, for acceleration on to somewhere else.
There are three other books in the series, written later that continue the story of Rama when a second Rama craft visits earth.
excellent books, also could be dropping off alien anthropologists to do a study of us, did any notice the pickup UFO sighting a little later. 🤭
I started reading the second one.
An interesting question to be posed about security on interstellar voyages, in the event of organic intruders when... say everyone is in cryosleep.
@@brendandrummond1739 I like that idea, could make for a great sci-fi!
I started on the second book then I had to go to the first book of start all over
Important context to give about Dr. Loeb is that he's an AVID alien enthusiast. Much like the history channel, it's his answer to literally everything,
I would like it to be true, but it's important to take his affirmations in this particular topic with a grain of salt
Tbh anything about aliens should be taken with many grains of salt. It’s too easy for news companies to get viewers if they put “aliens!!” in the headlines lol
@@thebuilder5271might even need to add some pepper and spices to the salt we should be taking the claim with, an extraordinary explanation needs lots of strong evidence that leave no other possible explanation unexplored and well... there's definitely another likely explanation in this case.
Oumuamua came from his homeworld...
He's certainly an AVI enthusiast.
@@thebuilder5271 its a shame really, I have an instinctive reluctance to believe anything that someone says when there answer for most things unexplainable is 'aliens'
What I love is the increasing number of times astronomers say something like " our current physics tell us this shouldnt happen". Like all the new stuff being found by James Webb and Hubble etc. Scientists are working at the edges of their knowledge and like the terrestrial explorers of old are, from what I gather, excited at the idea of exploring their maths and physics to try and work out whats happening.
Im excited and Im just a long retired nurse.😂
The funniest scenario would be if Oumuamua really IS an alien probe, but desperately trying to rule out aliens leads us to discovering dark comets 😛
Low key I think it might be a space buoy/probe.
Being dark makes it not a comet? It’s an asteroid if it doesn’t have a tail isn’t it?
@@alphagt62 I guess the difference is a comet is an icy object and an asteroid is a rocky object. A dark comet, supposedly, would be an icy object with a coma, which is invisible.
@@alphagt62 astroids are natural we dot know here yet
I despise "scientists" like Loeb. Seriously, pointing to aliens before even _exploring_ natural causes is no different than pointing to "god", interdimensional beings, humans from the future, and w/e else our imagination and ignorance can conjure up. I'm so sick of this stupid aliens narrative that's cropped up again. And I believe there are aliens out there, even! But bad science is bad science and Loeb's hypotheses don't deserve to be presented on the same footing as Seligman et al.
The sheer speed of Oumuamua is fascinating all by itself, its gone past Neptunes orbit already compared to how long it took Voyager I and II to reach the outer Solar System.
Any object from interstellar space would be expected to be moving at high relative velocity due to the sun's own motion. The sun travels about the galaxy at around 200 km/sec. That's close to ten times the velocity needed to escape the Earth's gravity entirely. or about six times the velocity at which the Earth orbits the sun.
@@bobbun9630 This 200 km/s is true and false at the same time. The fastest object in our vicinity is Barnard's Star and its speed relative to Sun is 142.6±0.2 km/s. Nothing else around us moves as fast.
Relative to our local group of stars, oumuamua is basically standing still
@@JKa244 yes that is a curious measurement. it was hanging out in the neighborhood, and we ran into it
@nmarbletoe8210. That idea makes it even more amazing; our galaxy could have run into it. What would something completely static in the universe look like and how could it exist?
I like how it was originally shaped like a stick and then later changed to a round plate shape as it was closer observed.
The more things that come into our system that we don't understand, the BETTER it is for science. Science isn't in crisis... it's literally our best available tool for figuring out wtf is going on. Certainly, it may be incomplete, but that is what makes it so vital.
Yes yes, but that's not very useful for generating a buzz wordy, catchy 'controversial' click-bait title.
He is using "crisis" in its academic context. In formal logic/information theory/ academic lingo, "crisis" signifies much less distress than in everyday use. "Crisis" in academia has meaning closer to "incongruous". It is usually used as the opposite of the term "normal science", which refers to situations were there is widespread consensus in the scientific community.
Basically, when a scientist says a field of science is in crisis, they mean that there are one or several subjects within the field for which there is no clear consensus.
"Crisis" in academia is very common! It is a part of the scientific process, and is usually seen as positive, as it means science is pushing up against problems requiring novel discoveries.
If you want to learn more about the meaning of "crisis" in it's scientific context, then study science philosophy / formal logic. "Crisis" in it's academic meaning was defined by Kuhn, but to get the necessary context, it is also necessary to know a bit of formal logic, as well as be familiar with Karl Poper and the concept of scientific positivism.
Imagine the horror if they detected its deaccelerating fast as it enters the solar system
That will be the headlines one day Maybe soon too.
Before the 2024 election maybe.
There are two possibilities about Oumuamua true nature.
First, it could be an artificial spacecraft or probe that aren't familiar to our design. It's not like the nature of other civilizations if they exist out there would follow the same custom like ours here on Earth. It may have it's structure and outer shells retrofitted to look like an asteroid. This space rocks is well capable enough in handling the harsh condition in the vacuum of space.
The second observation would be that Oumuamua is simply an object that's no different to an asteroid or comet. But simply doesn't categorized in the same group. One of mankind greatest flaw is the trait of being arrogance that likes to believed they already know everything. It's a key problem within our collective subconscious. Reeling to the idea that what we know, the nature of our world and the universe should follow to our proposed dictated laws and rules. This is a mistake as probability and unpredictable outcome would dampened the stated quotas. Unfortunately, human egos are stubborn and overwhelmed in a herd mentality that one must follow in order to fit in the society that everyone should follow accordingly.
We should be open-minded to what's to know out there instead just breaking the idea from our grounded based belief.
Bruv. Thats blatant projection.@@rogueascendant6611
now that sounds scary goddayum
If it did they wouldn't tell us. If you are trying to create a world of tax slaves the last thing you want is for anyone to realize there might be something outside, an escape essentially, it would motivate revolt.
If we don't build some small "contingency probes" and have them ready to launch when things like this fly past, we will never intercept one. We don't have enough advance warning that one is coming, so we need to make generic probes and have them on hand, ready for a rapid launch whenever an interesting target comes by.
No point... the chance of intercepting such objects is virtually zero, they are just going too fast.
Couldn't we simply have crafts orbiting almost every planet so that no matter where an object appeared from, we could have a probe start accelerating ahead of time to study, pursue or intercept it once it get close? Even if it was too fast, we'd at least get closer photographs or scans. Course, it'd be hugely expensive. However, we don't know if it'd be worth it till we tried. However, one thing that bothers me is I never know if I'm hearing the whole truth or an objective report.
@@sunnyjim1355 Yeah. As much as that would be cool, an intercept with something like oumuamua would cost tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of m/s in velocity changes. Something like that is just not feasible yet unfortunately.
@@switzerlandful"Simply"
You need to know the objects path or you just wasted hundred of millions to put a probe in solar orbit
Have any scientists calculated Oumuamua's trajectory out of our solar system? If it's heading out toward a nearby star, that would be very exciting indeed, because it would presumably be so unlikely to happen randomly.
@@WatcherNine My question was not where it came from, but where it's headed as it left our solar system. If it's just heading out in a random direction, we can't infer anything. If it's heading out to a nearby star, which would be exceedingly unlikely to happen randomly, then that might suggest it's a traveler with intention.
But your comment made me realize - If its trajectory incoming was from a nearby star, then made a slingshot move past our sun and headed out to another nearby star, that would be so improbable to have happened randomly that we might as well celebrate our first encounter with alien technology.
Hey, I thought I'd give you a more useful answer as it was an interesting question. Oumuamua is heading towards the constellation Pegasus. The 10 visible stars there are between 67 and 690 light years away. Based on it's speed of 87kmps (or 1LY every 3.5k years), it'll get to the nearest star in a little under a 250,000 years, or to the furthest in 2.4 million years
Thank you, that suggests it's not an alien tourist @@craigbryan6980
What I do not quite understand is why it is difficult to figure out what it is, if the direction out are different from where it came from, it is obviously not made by an alien intelligence?
@@craigbryan6980 - but where is it coming from?
Same place? If not, it is obviously not a probe?
I'm impressed by the number of high resolution images we constantly get of this object and others like it which were nothing more than a couple pixels on a CCD. I'm also impressed at how no two of the depictions look the same.
It's because WE DONT KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE!!!!!
SCIENTISTS ARE STILL DEBATING IT GENERAL SHAPE. Let alone its texture and color
Scientists can only hypothesize what it looks like and have artists try to replicate it. It’s like why illustrations of dinosaurs are always different because we are still missing a lot of info on them. But yeah impressive that they’re able to guess how it looks based on how it behaves
You're not supposed to notice that. You're no fun. What a party pooper.
there’s only one real picture of oumuamua that was taken by James Webb on a telescope & looking at it is pretty much pointless . you can’t make anything out of it . they show the image at 4:12
The third option is General Relativity does not predict hyperbolic trajectories very accurately. To date we have measured just a few hyperbolic trajectories relative to the sun that are not comets. There is Oumuamua and a few number of spacecraft like Galileo that have passed by earth at high velocity on a hyperbolic trajectory. Both groups of objects have experienced unknown accelerations. For spacecraft the error has been named the "Flyby Anomaly". Observations of hyperbolic trajectories relative to our sun could lead to new physics just like the Precession of Mercury did a century ago.
Thanks for that. Classic. Science is supposed to overcome the "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" problem, but sadly it often seems to have forgotten the art of contending with the space between "accepted theory" and unfounded speculation.
@@AndSendMe What is the accepted theory for the Flyby Anomaly? This has been a multi decade mystery in basic physics, if you have an answer we would like to know!
@@thequantumtemple Sorry if I raised your hopes. I was speaking to the way this video uses General Relativity (the 'hammer': an accepted theory) as a reason to frame Oumuamua's acceleration as a big mystery, and treating Loeb's speculation as valid, when there was evidence (which you pointed out) that something else may be involved (including this in one's thinking is what I refer to as "the space between").
@@AndSendMe Thanks for your views. With the motion of galaxies and intergalactic web requiring the use of dark matter and dark energy as the dominate scientific response, I wanted to highlight General Relativity deviations observed within our solar system. These are deviations that can be tested with cubesat launches that may lead to Modified General Relativity or other new physics.
Yeah interesting had never heard of that. However I think that conclusion is a stretch. more likely the anomaly is due to an unknown error in telemetry? Or maybe some unknown objects interfering?
Oumuamua certainly captured the imagination. Where it came from, where it's gone, what it is. The questions are endless.
It’s a beeg rock
Could it be a large dildo? Accelerating towards a massive space beaver perhaps?
@OfficialGeneratorX beeg rock, came from the real far, going a lot further. All questions answered.
@@alexbosse8528 @officialGernatorX Yes, and all UFO's are weather balloons and swamp gas ;-)
@@alexbosse8528 i mean... pretty much... it didnt really do much soooo yea. beeg rock
I’d put my money on the dark comet theory over the alien one. I’m just a guy who likes to read about space stuff but my first thought when I heard about Oumuamua and the fact comets can accelerate was “cant it be possible for some comets to emit invisible gas?”
I just find the insistence of somehow proving its not alien in origin and bending over backwards to find some other explanation at all costs to be highly indicative of the poor current state of Scientific research amongst academics. It's as if an "alien" hypothesis must be thrown out at all costs whether it is true or not.
@@tfk884I wouldn't say they must be thrown out at all costs, but they definitely fall into the extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof category. Until such time as the existence of spacefaring aliens is proven, the sensible starting point is looking for solutions in the laws of physics. Aliens tend to be use as handwavium to explain things we can't ... yet ... explain otherwhise.
The object was tumbling so much that anyone inside would have been scrambled aeons ago. If it was an alien craft. Its contents were dead a VERY long time ago.
We glean more information by doing so. It pushes the scientific community to do more research and look more deeply at their work. It's best the we remain 100% skeptical of alien anything until we are literally looking them in the eyes.
@@tfk884how could you prove it is alien? Is it not the best way trying first to prove that there's a natural explanation of its behavior? And if there isn't, then we talk aliens, or magic, or whatever.
Just to add to this, and to be clear, Dr Loeb stated it very clearly, he is offering a possible theory that fits with the current understanding of scientific laws and discoveries, not disregarding something just because it is not plausible within our knowledge. He then further stated that, the next one should scientifically be studied via a probe so that we do not keep speculating.
"I'm not saying its aliens but... *Wink wink.*"
If you have a proper degree and even jokingly mention aliens you get about a dozen cameras jammed in your face. That said extraordinary speculation requires extraordinary proof.
If we are working under assumption it's always far more likely to follow the more mundane assumption to avoid laymen running wild in speculation.
I'm a psychiatrist. Our buzzword is psychopath. If I came out and said, "well until we've analyzed every human on Earth it's not far fetched to think up to 1 in 3 people could be full blown psychopaths."
I wouldn't be technically lying but I would be disingenuously garnering fame for myself by nudge nudging spectacular (and almost certainly false) claims.
Yes it has nothing to do with selling books 😂
I hate everyone involved that let this opportunity just fly past us.
@@sirweebs2914 It accelerated away from the solar system. when we realised it was not following the predicted trajectory how were we supposed to catch up with it.
Oumuamua was a galactic golf ball or frisbee. The wow signal was the "heads up" shout by the aliens letting us know they knocked their object towards us. 🤷😂
@jasonrodriguez2004God made all intergalactic life, aliens included. Please stop spamming The Bible on educational videos, sibling 👽❤Tyvm, Jesus loves you too 🙏
This is my new favourite theory. We should be careful to listen for more wow signals! 🤣
Maybe it was a v1 Von Neumann probe that didn’t make it?
I think it is more likely that Oumuamua is a shoe or slipper which accidentally flew off a big foot, as this would explain it's tumbling motion *and* its elongated shape. It also explains the source of the acceleration, which is probably frozen sweat from the foot which vaporizes in the sunlight.
@@josboersema1352 Ok nice joke, but what do you really think it is? 👨⚕️🎓⁉️🌌🗿🌌
Besides Korg's obvious family lol
The main issue I have with Loeb's theory is that a tumbling solar sail wouldn't be very effective.
That’s the cool part, we don’t know it was spinning. That’s just the best guess we have based off observations. 🤷🏼♂️
Loeb is a crackpot. He has no theory, only a hypothesis. He is famous for writing a bunch of one page "paper" without doing the real work as a scientist.
i thought his point was exactly that it couldnt be a light sail and as there was no other explanation for the acceleration except the light sail than it has to be an alien spacecraft
@@cjh.1920 can you suggest a better explanation for the regular changes in it's brightness?
The idea is that it was broken or malfunctioning; that the probe or other device to which the sail was originally attached had gone off course or had suffered an impact, some other event which sent the sail careening away. The concept necessitates that Oumuamua was unimaginably ancient and was not actually intended to enter Sol system, maybe it was in a parked orbit and got smacked by some energetic particle or micrometeoroid.
Thank you for your time and work. It is very much appreciated. Be blessed 🙌🙏
I watched Hale Bopp in 90s and it was OK with the naked eye- but then I put on a set of gen2 Russian night vision goggles-- it went from a 4-5 degrees Smudge above the Western horizon to an incredible, monstrous fireball that stretched completely across the western sky from the north to the south-- it went from an object a finger length long to something that crossed the entire sky!! I really feel blessed to have been in a position- (with the night vision goggles) - to have seen it like that. It really awed me to realize that the actual comet was hundreds or maybe thousands of times bigger than what is revealed with the naked eye or even the 699x telescope I had. If you have any real military grade night vision go out during a new moon away from urban light sources and look up. There are thousands more stars than you ever realised.
The hill of "Aliens" will be exceptionally difficult to overcome given A. C. Clarke's novel Rendezvous with Rama. Except for the name the introduction of Rama in the book is very close to the way Oumuamua entered the solar system. Including the rotation and "flashing" in the early stages.
Not to mention a propulsion system that defies our current understanding of physics and engineering
Fiction is fiction
You can make any idea make sense in fiction,. No reputable scientists think it was aliens...only the uneducated that make up details
You provide a really excellent narrative, exciting the curiosity in us all. Please continue. It is an inspiration
Weird comment.
I like how you mentioned Avi accusing them of bad maths, then described him as "pushing" his model without actually describing what "bad math" issues he found with their paper.
Good luck with next models 😊
It was actually 'Spaceball One" speeding up to Ludicrous speed.
I love this subject SO much. When you deep dive on this, it’s incredibly interesting.
Here is a connect the dots mystery solved narrative.
If the artist rendering of the spacecraft Omuamua is accurate its appearance is exactly like the alleged photo of the crash landed spacecraft the Apollo 20 mission was deployed to investigate.
The dead female crewmember onboard the crashed spacecraft on the moon was a member of the MU society located in the Gobi Desert. There was a conflict with the Atlanteans. The Atlanteans conducted a sneak attack against MU but some of MU escaped just in time.
Some of MU,s spacecraft escaped just in time 1 of these grabbed a hunk of rock in the rings of Saturn and hurled it at the Atlanteans. It broke up before impact but caused a worldwide cataclysm 11.4k years ago.
2 of MU,s spacecraft were damaged by the Shockwave 1 crashed on the moon,the other is still tumbling thru our solar system on autopilot.
The earthbound refugees of MU migrated to the Tibetean plateau focusing on their spiritual practices to atone for this heinous act of destruction.
The Atlanteans dispersed to America-The Yucatan-Paragonia & Egypt.
It's absolutely stunning / breathtaking that we can detect such tiny forces out in the cosmos, but it's all because such tiny forces over time can cause such sizeable changes in orbits. ....So cool =)
yes! the anomalous acceleration was less than a millionth of a G!
but it was detectable over time as it added up to a significant change in the position vs expected position
so imagine what the aliens can detect if they are way ahead of us... they can probably read all our thoughts from a thousand light years away.
This is why I appreciate Loeb; he makes other scientists get out of their armchairs and do the work to gather more evidence.
Interesting that an established scientist has some kid scientist trying to prove he's smarter. Probably did half the math on his iphone his parents got him.
Couldn't disagree more. Loeb's continued publishing of completely baseless, debunked garbage has no positive effect on the scientific community, and it only serves to spread disinformation and detract from respectable research..
Loeb always says it aliens no matter what. He doesnt want to disprove everything else first but just says "Aliens"
I can hear the smile in your voice. It made me smile too.
I just culled a bunch of my subscriptions. You are too good to leave.
Without question
I know the feeling
I concur. He clearly does his research for each video, and presents it in such a digestible way
You're mixing metaphors. You should have said he's too good to kill.
It's the quality and his asmr voice for me
Rendezvous with Rama is a science fiction novel by Arthur C. Clarke is inspired by interstellar craft, cigar shape UFOs.
Your voice soothes my soul.
Maybe it has parts that melt and combust when exposed to starlight and it “speeds up” when that happens and slows down as that part starts to solidify again in the absence of direct starlight?
If Oumuamua is alien, it was predicted in Star Trek IV and, finding the whales were still roaming the seas, moved on.
If it isn't that and is indeed a light sail, how did it slow down to its observed speed?
... and why didn't it stop to have a gander at our weirdness?!?
It took one look and said "Nah, I'm good."
@@Ave_EchidnaAliens lock their doors when they drive past Earth! 🤣
It concluded there was no intelligent life down here and set course for the next star 🤣
Launched micro probes at earth to study.
They were just here for a rock concert.
The universe truly is mysterious, that’s why I find it fascinating!
i find it very fascinating! that’s why I find it mysterious.
@@ZEROmg13I find it's very mysterious! that's why I find it so fascinating.
What about my bee whole?
I agree with y’all! It’s both mysterious and fascinating, something like Oumuamua is rare and now theres another one like it!
@@jennyanydots2389 mind your own beehole 😅
A really good video, thanks a lot !!!
How absolutely awesome the speed of this thing is if it can overtake Voyager 1/2 in such a short time.
Ah yes voyager half
You got it wrong. Oumuamua originated from a very special frame of reference, the so-called local standard of rest (LSR)
The sol system is the speeding one.
@@MortenChristensen1979.
Can you explain it in but more detail
If Oumuamua was a solar sail, then wouldn't it's albedo have increased dramatically as it was heading away from us?
Could be a broken or malfunctioning sail, right?
A tumbling solar sail would not work
it was tumbling so the brightness changed every so many hours. i forget was it 8 hours rotation?
seems like space junk more than a functional sail
@@nmarbletoe8210"space junk" ? Based on what? Your imagination?
@@norml.hugh-mann There was one other object detected in space with similar non-gravitational acceleration and lack of cometary outgassing. Guess what it was!
Has anyone plotted the departure trajectory against the future position of nearby stars?
Now see, THERE'S a genius idea. Where was it going?
It is now heading away from the Sun towards Pegasus towards a vanishing point 66° from the direction of its approach.
Yes.
@@andoniades Oh, good.
@@thomasmount3530 Given the fact that it came from nowhere around here and estimates suggest our solar system is the first it's encountered in 45 million - several billion years, I doubt our -guesses- _predictions_ about where it's going will tell us much ...
Ngl i am now a member and AHHHHHH YOU DESERVE ITTTTTT
My problem with the acceleration theory of out gassing of Oumuamua is that observations have confirmed it’s tumbling and unless that out gassing isn’t perfectly aligned so that the effect of thrusting isn’t effected then it’s not going to push Oumuamua in any particular movement.
Not long ago someone published a paper saying that oumuamua was indeed expelling water vapor that was trapped until the thing warmed up. From real real cold to pretty dang hot.
Sauce? I'd love to know more.
BBQ?
@@lancerevell5979 It's a meme, darlink.
The use of the word 'sauce' instead of 'source'.
@@user-mp9qf5zy3l "Sauce" is internet slang for the word "source". Is that what you were asking about?
If Oumuamua is accelerating due to outgassing, it should be possible to correlate the angle of it with fluctuations in the acceleration. Assuming that data exists.
Because due to its very peculiar shape, there should be times when very little surface area is pointing at the sun, or in the opposite direction of acceleration.
It’s not outgassing
@@fromthefire4176. then what is it!!!?
@@feralbluee idk but I remember Occam’s Razor better than everyone bending over backwards in a panic not to have to entertain the idea of aliens. Which it very well may not have been, nobody can know. But outgassing, considering shape, tumbling, and our lack of any other record of that producing this kind of effect, is just ridiculous. It’s more likely an orbital mechanic like the flyby effect that we don’t yet understand enough about.
But aliens are still a better explanation than a good 75% of theories I’ve heard from the modern crackpot types who don’t understand why the public has become so aggressively apathetic to space science, while they nerd out over stuff like Martian rocks and make fools of themselves by how dogmatically they still resist, deny, and ignore serious discussion of aliens.
Na
Saltiest reply so far@@ETAisNOW ;)
worth mentioning about the reported acceleration of oumuamua - it did not increase in speed as it exited the solar system, but rather didn't slow down quite as much as would be expected. whatever that force is, it is still considered an acceleration even though oumuamua was still slowing down
that's dumb, then why look for causes of acceleration instead of failures in the model?
@@cyfangz9238 Why would that matter? You use energy to accelerate, and it will cost energy to continue the same speed while something is pushing against you. Either way you want to define it, it still says this thing had an increase in push.
@@ghoulbby
To claim a thing had an increase in push due to a lack of reaching an expected decrease insinuates the projected model was perfect, so that only a new outside force that deviates from the model would be responsible.
To simply claim a thing had a increase in speed surpassing a projected model is different, however.
Having a force or not pushing against said thing changes the way a solution would be looking into.
That's why it matters.
The thing with Oumuamua is not only that it didn't have the Coma, but it also changed it's trajectory .
Plus, even if it had a Hydrogen based "Dark Coma" - shouldn't we at least see SOME dust...?
Spitzer telescope observations place tight limits on any carbon-based molecules or dust around ‘Oumuamua and rule out the possibility that normal cometary outgassing is at play (unless it is composed of pure water). Moreover, cometary outgassing would have changed the rotation period of ‘Oumuamua, and no such change was observed.
You always sound like you're smiling with your entire being when talking, like you're having the best day ever, petting a dog, drinking something really good and explaining something of your favourite topic to your very best friend while waiting for a nice dinner to be ready. I hope that is true
I am tired of seeing this comment. I've seen it 50 times now. Who cares. And you had to bring a fog into the picture, good lord, they're vermin, disgusting creatures.
Loeb is always good for a laugh.
Didn't recognize gnize the voice but knew I was in for a good one when he said this is Astrum.
Because of its "odd" shape, could it have been possible that it was given a gravitational assist? Thus increasing it's speed?
Gravitation works on the mass. In a vacuum the shape it not very relevant. As far as I understand physics.
One of those accelerating objects that looked similar to Oumuamua was 2020 SO, which turned out to be artificial.
yup :)
And it's commonly agreed to be a Centaur rocket booster.
It was a derelict rocket booster
1st rule of cosmology - it's never aliens
Until it is.
I started watching Warhammer 40k lore videos to fall alseep to. This video showed up in my feed shortly after. IDK what to feel about this.
It's hilarious to think Oumuamua could have been an alien ship full of a treasure trove of technologies and new science and we just let it go because we were too cheap and too lazy to send a probe despite how peculiar it was.
Aliens might not feel like crossing space and time just to see us, but their debris wouldn't care so it's likely alien debris would actually be the first contact we ever made.
Sad. OH WELL. It's done now.
Unlikely but another theory yes
It's a fucking rock lol
Watching too much sci fi if you think we can just send "probes"
once it was in our solar system it was too late to "send a probe" (whatever you mean by that). It was traveling too fast for us to react in time.
Who said it would have an alien in it vs just a probe? That’s exactly what we would do if we had the tech right now and saw a green planet.
17 m/s is not acceleration, it is speed!
If you have delta V you experienced acceleration.
it's an error in measurement- we expected it to be at (for not-to-scale example) 1000m/s, but we measured 1050m/s. There's a deviation of 50m/s, and at some point it experienced some nonzero acceleration we haven't accounted for. That's what "acceleration bla bla bla 17m/s" means
Can be used for either, it's a unit of measurement. Yes it's usually used to reference speed, unless denoted in squares, but this is just a silly comment, sorry.
Curious question here. If Oumuamua is an alien craft, I think it’s a safe bet that it’s probably information gathering, just like our own probes. It’s possible then that it’s like the Voyager crafts, and is shot out into space without a clear trajectory in mind beyond its initial mission. But we might also guess that the alien race that created it is advanced enough to plan a course for their craft throughout the entire galaxy. If we study it’s trajectory and come up with a group of stars it could be aiming for, and look to see if those stars have planets with the potential to support life, could it lend some weight to the alien craft hypothesis?
If we couldnt correctly calculate its trajectory inside our own system i dont think any long term trajectory would be trustworthy
@@hullmees666 maybe. But maybe we can be a lot more general. If it’s an alien craft it’s probably not going to change its trajectory out in empty space.
@@Dylanshreds1you aren't getting it...We don't have good enough info for our own damn solar system so we darn sure don't have data from beyond it
@@norml.hugh-mann I’m pretty sure astronomers today are capable of determining the relative size of planets, their basic chemical composition, and the distance from their star. At least that’s the impression that has been made by all the information about exoplanets coming out in the last decade or so.
@@Dylanshreds1 If that was the case the next logical place would be Alpha Centauri purely because its the next closest system. Some scientists think there could possibly be life there. Proxima b is considered the most likely habitable world in the system.
Loeb's explanation is actually the easier one to come up with since it only requires one to essentially hypothecate a large enough surface area and thickness to produce a given acceleration for an assumed average radiation pressure. Pity it didn't come close enough to get a really good look at it.
Love this topic. Can’t get enough of this object 😊 tnx Alex.
What’s mind blowing is how we can even detect objects so small. Seems if ET was flying around our solar system astronomers would certainly know about them.
there are many unusual things sighted
If they were detectable by our instruments, yes. Any alien race advanced enough for interstellar travel - if that's even possible - would likely also be advanced enough to avoid detection if they chose to.
YEAH, BENDING LIGHT,SPACE, AND TIME TO TRACEL i'D IMAGINE, WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO OBSERVE. =)@@strategicsage7694 dang caps
People expect Aliens to come in a fancy spacecraft and land in an airport. The object Oumuamua is a perfect camouflage not to be detected and not leave an artificial signal, i.e. a radio signal.
Another great video.
When I first heard of this it reminded me of Rama because of it's general shape and it's extrasolar flight path
Rama indeed, what else! Arthur C.Clarke would have loved this, I'm sure.
The acceleration was given as "17 metres per second". Is this 17 metres per second squared?" 17 metres per second squared is a very large acceleration. I would like to know more about this, if possible, please.
Alex really messed this up. He didn't specify that the total gain was 17m/s - which seems logical to me.
An acceleration of 17m/s^2 is about 1.8 gravities, and would be definite proof of alien tech.
But of coruse, IT IS NEVER ALIENS.
I googled it... Its speed rose by 17 meters per second in total.
"On 27 June 2018, astronomers reported a non-gravitational acceleration to ʻOumuamua's trajectory, potentially consistent with a push from solar radiation pressure.The resulting change in velocity during the period when it was near its closest approach to the Sun summed to about 17 meters per second."
I think there was a few orders of magnitude mistake. That would be such a huge acceleration for a celestial object that all the debates about whether it is an alien ship or not would be pointless :)
@@Chris.Davies Aha. Thank you. That makes a lot of sense to me. I am very grateful for your kindness.
@@AndrasMihalyi Thank you very much for your kind and full reply. I was really startled by the numbers in the video and your reply helps me make sense of what is going on. 17 metres per second total change of velocity is far more understandable. Thank you for your help, your time, and your kindness.
they've already explained it years ago, the closer you get to a gravity well, the faster you move, like terminal velocity but with no limit due to the lack of resistance
I have to assume the math was done for this
@@TylerTheTiler it's the same concept as those little coin things in McDonald's, the coin spins faster the further down into the "well" it goes, until eventually it drops, same thing happens with any comet, they all speed up on entry
@@Colm1800 yes I understand that, I played KSP. I'm saying I assume the scientists/astonomers have already factored this into everything and did the math on it
Apart from the tumbling, is there another explanation for its changing reflectivity? An odd shape like Arrokoth , perhaps, or a close orbiting attendant object? I'm not satisfied with just one possible solution to anything
Love your channel, keep it up!
Loeb points out that any outgassing, visible or invisible, that is sufficient to cause acceleration would also impact rotation, but there was no indication of rotational changes in Oumuamua.
interesting! bolsters the radiation pressure idea, which requires a very light weight object.
alien space junk perhaps
Wouldnt that also apply to his own solar sail idea, given that oumuamua is confirmed to be rotating?
@@Dorsidwarf that is just for outgassing. radiation pressure doesn't do that afaik
loeb is full of himself imo
@@nmarbletoe8210 Radiation pressure would impact the incoming trajectory, but I saw no indication of that.
Imagine if the signals of uniform light change didn’t come from spinning, but instead came from it sending uniform signals that are normal for them but bizarre to us to be used as a signal
'Oumuamua [emphasis on the initial 'O] did get a good flyby look at the solar system's inner planets including Earth, a random (?) trajectory that would make an interplanetary probe engineer proud.
Avi Loeb's book has several logical holes in it. I encourage you all to look at some of the counterarguments against his theories. And one can't forget that he's a proponent of setting up light-sail probes and sending them out into deep space. Unsurprisingly, he thinks a light-sail is the best explanation for this phenomena. Hmmm.
Can you list some logical holes?
You can look at the same statement with the opposite conclusion. He knows a lot about solar sails, so he has the expertise to explain that potential possibility. It would be more of a red flag if he was advocating for a possibility outside his range of knowledge.
Avi Loeb also used to give seminars on investing in Dogecoin, while being heavily invested in said crypto. His "work" with light sails has the appearance of promoting book sales (pun intended).
Idk if "Scientist In Name Only" is circulating yet, but Loeb 100% fits. He doesn't do anything scientific, he just uses his degree as a weird form of clout, writes papers on stoner theories, and grifts
@@R.JoshFieldif that’s the case, then wouldn’t his writings easily have been dispelled? Why hasn’t it been done yet and why is he still relevant and not labeled a hack?
Since Oumuamua is so far away by now, do you think it could be possible to have the JWST look at it? Or has the Oumuamua's trajectory caused it to go missing from our sight?
Oumuamua is much too small, cold, and dark. JWST can see things that are very far away, are unbelievably enormous, and that emit red and infrared light.
unfortunately, we need completely different kinds of telescopes to look at faraway stars versus close-by asteroid things. JWST isn't capable of focusing close enough to picture Oumuamua, even if we pointed it at where the object should be, for example. And yeah, too small, to cold, not enough light coming off of it.
It's been gone for a long time, and unlike a comet in our solar system, isn't coming back
he shows a picture taken of it at 4:12 . they might as well have used a rock to take the picture you can’t tell what your looking at all
Webb can't look at small and close objects unless its using ir. Thats one of the reasons the picture of Titan from webb is as good as it is. Oumuamua is just too small, too cold and too far away for webb to see it
Oumuamua reminds me of a conductor and the movement of the conductor through the magnetic field of the Sun induces current and vice versa, the current passing through the superconductor in the magnetic field generates the movement of the superconductor.
I left one of these in the customers Khasi this morning. Certainly didn’t see it coming
Alex, your channel is so awesome for laypeople like myself! I love the info you bring and the presentation that is accessible and thorough.
One gripe: please use “hypothesis” when talking about scientific ideas. There is so much confusion among the general public about the difference between our colloquial use of the word theory and a scientific theory, which has the highest explanatory power and predictive power in science.
It’s a small gripe, but it’s super distracting to hear of scientists positing their hypotheses and you calling these ideas “theories.”
Love the channel and thanks for the content!
Oumuamua may also have a different reason for accelerating than these objects based in our solar system. Acceleration is a very general action that can be created by a number of different situations. Our telescopes can only detect gases and dust that reflect sunlight, so there may be other compositions of gas and particulate matter that are not being considered.
That said, when people suggest aliens as a theory, they are immediately prejudiced against, with such things are considered "impossible" - even for no good scientific reasons (not that every theory about aliens has any scientific reasoning, some have none) . Loeb's hypothesis is scientifically rigorous and just as valid as the alternative scientific theory. Dismissing it based on prejudice and our beliefs is unscientific.The science itself should be evaluated on its own merits, whether proven true or false it should be respected as a scientific theory.
In any case, study of these new accelerating objects are very interesting, and more flybys will hopefully give more insight about the objects in our solar system, and maybe interstellar objects too.
Define scientific rigorous lol?
@@alexnahan969 I'd say that 'scientifically rigorous' means that it has been extensively tested against opposing theories and still remains a logically sound conclusion, but it is not a technical term, and as is the case with every non-technical term, there is a massive amount of subjectivity introduced through the context in which it was used and the idiolect of the person using it
Absolutely f-ing not. This papers might be rigorous by his method but starting from such a ludicrous hypothesis is far from the scientific rationality. Nature has proven an incommensurate amount of times that it's surprisingly rich and that we still have a lot to learn. The "I want to believe" mindset should not be given the same credit as any other natural explanations. Aliens are the new-age escape goats, the modern equivalent to the good old theist theories about everything unknown, something scientific method is deeply against. What Loeb did was intellectual laziness or pure sensationalism and doesn't deserve any glance at all.
@@alexnahan969 based on sound scientific principles and logic, using valid data sets and double-checked information from experimental sources. Enough?
When the Vera C. Rubin observatory is in operation, we are going to see SOOO MANY strange interstellar objects passing through the solar system. We have seen two objects ENTIRELY BY ACCIDENT: I/Oumuamua and I/Borisov. They were only a year or two apart and we weren't really even looking. I anticipate seeing a plethora of interstellar objects.
at some point it makes me think with those other objects that have recently seen something like in star wars ..a group chases someone and we are just spectators
I could swear that it was only a couple years ago, can’t believe that it’s been almost 6 years
pretty sure it's just a comet with gas pushing it away. I'm onboard with the hydrogen gas explanation. Simplest explanation is probably the most correct one.
Oumuamua is a very interesting case. I'm very happy Avi Loeb brought up that question, because we scientists tend to get a bit arrogant that we know everything but nature is so much more diverse - even if it's a natural cause, it's a discovery level. And if it's not natural - well, that's even cooler.
Grifter shill.
On the contrary, the mistake in my view is to constantly scream "alien!" every time we encounter something we don't understand. Sensationalist scientists like Avi Loeb are evidently not immune to this. Truth is, as every other extraordinary claim, aliens should always be the last possibility entertained, not the first. The odds are so overwhelmingly in favor of unknown natural processes as opposed to aliens that one might as well play the lotto instead.
Not to mention, 500 years ago, we'd have screamed "God! Angels!" for every unknown phenomena and we would have been just as wrong (presumably). And in both cases, we would be motivated by a metaphysical need to believe, by culture, not by reason.
Back in the days, the Bible would make us see angels all around, and today science fiction and pseudo-science spawned this alien-of-the-gap line of reasoning we see everywhere. At last, there's way too many similarities between science fiction and our conception of aliens for the latter not being a direct product of the former.
You scientists definitely don't know everything and Avi Loeb was the arrogant one cleary.
@@75YBA No, keeping lazy scientists sharp and pushing them to gather more evidence by teasing them with an alien tech hypothesis which they normally preemptively reject. Folks who accuse him of being a "grifter" are not understanding his larger strategy which he is very vocal about. And he's winning the strategy by obtaining the private funding that average armchair scientists crunching numbers in a lab are not.
"Experts were shocked," and "Experts were surprised" are two of the most spoken phrases in the world.
Can’t believe the piece of destroyed planet fragment theory. There would surely be more pieces with it. It was solo
We have to remember that we are traveling through space and are not just floating in the same place….
These objects are also in our path as it were, so we can expect to see foreign objects from time to time ….
Dust might be a good topic for you in the future and how our solar system is affected by it …
That’s what I’m thinking, we’re moving forward, so it makes sense that other things would be moving toward us. The gravity of our sun would cause these to speed up.
@@chrislail3824 so, yes, that's why we encountered it, and that's why it followed a hyperbolic trajectory through the solar system, but we are very good at calculating gravitational effects, and 'Oumuamua's speed had changed a slightly different amount than expected- it was 17m/s off from our estimates when it was on the way out, as said in the video. What's puzzling isn't that it passed by, or that it flung past the sun at a high speed, but that it flung past the sun at a speed we didn't expect.
Some people in the comments have posited it's related to the Pioneer effect- an unexpected deviation in velocity when the Pioneer probe was accelerated to a hyperbolic trajectory, out of the solar system. Voyager 1 and 2 both felt a similar effect too. The position is that we don't actually fully completely understand general relativity for hyperbolic paths, leading to slight inaccuracies in calculations for objects at these speeds. It's likened to the original explanation for the precession of Mercury's orbit, which was first adequately explained by general relativity, due to its close proximity to the sun.
Almost all of the objects in the sol system are bound. However, Objects passing through on a path will be affected by a multitude of solar system objects in addition to objects outside of our system. Once in the heliopause, only guessing will answer these questions.
Your comment makes zero sense. It’s like it was written by AI.
We didn't even see it until it passed us. They think it accelerated. Not really enough time to get an exact direction and velocity. Oumuamua perfectly illustrated why we need more than 1 planet. No way to detect that in time, no way to stop it if you did, moving way to fast. Probably would have been 200-250 MTs because of it's high speed. That's a Krakatau level event, and it would have hit us before we even knew it was there.
This might sound silly but could a solar wind sail be used like a wind turbine to generate electric power in space?
Could it be angular momentum or tidal forces at play here?
Maybe it didn’t spout off material, but the sudden gravitational field may have rugged on the lighter side in such a way where it “flings” it much more strongly than otherwise
No, a unique mass distribution cannot cause unexpected acceleration. No matter how the thing is shaped, it’s going to move along a predictable path due to the gravitational force between the two objects unless there are additional forces to gravity.
It is incredibly most likely that the object released gas that we simply did not see with our limited abilities that depend on standard compositions of comas (gasses that reflect enough light).
would have changed the rotation period of ‘Oumuamua, and no such change was observed.
I wish we had probes we could send to catch up with these objects so we could have a closer look.
There are probes already, just turn the steering wheel 🙃
I know this is an old topic, but one explonation to Oumuamua's odd shape that I heard, which I was surprised to didn't mention, was that it might actually not be cigar or disk shaped at all, but simply had a contrasting dark and light side, like some moons in our solar system.
Which to me makes much more sense.
But I guess now we will never really know for sure.
Today in climatology the prevailing wisdom is to immediately denounce and destroy anybody who questions your theory or simply asks questions. Totally unlike astronomy where even Einstein doesn't have that status and whose theories are regularly put to the test.
Is it possible that solar magnetic activity could influence a strongly magnetic asteroid-like object? Would we be able to detect magnetic interaction from the distance we were observing from?
Magnetism is already a weak force, for magnetism to affect such a large object even if it was fully magnetic itself, think of the strongest magnet on earth has little to no effect on other objects 10 miles away which 0.0004 the circumference of earth. if there were any other force that could push an object like this I would bet gravity, another weak force, but one we do not fully understand.
I really am making most of this stuff up, but if this is an alien material/substance than it could totally be in the realm of possibility.
We should save alien tech as a hypothesis after all else fails over years of analysis. Yet, suggesting aliens as a possibility shouldn't be ridiculed either. One day it will be the last hypothesis standing.
No. The HOPE that it's aliens shouldn't be ridiculed. But the insistence that we consider it's aliens when perfectly valid, and frankly much much much more plausible, explanations suffice absolutely should be ridiculed as crack pottery.
No. The HOPE that it's aliens shouldn't be ridiculed. But the insistence that we consider it's aliens when perfectly valid, and frankly much much much more plausible, explanations suffice absolutely should be ridiculed as crack pottery.
Can't wait till they release the actual pictures 👏
During its time entering the solar system it oumuamua made 1 course change when approaching the sun which moved its course further away from earth and 2 speed changes after its gravity assist from the sun. To this day none of these changes can be explained. Combined with its extremely unusual shape this object is either ETI or beyond our current understanding of natural events. Either way its behaviour is weird asf
We know the big asteroids in our solar system won't hit us in any relevant future, but we don't know about the ones of the size that could devastate a continent, and then there could be these objects from outside coming in at a high speed. Higher speed means even a relatively small object could do enormous damage on our planet. Maybe the only realistic scenario where we would suddenly die out.
wich is why we need to spread out. first mars. then titan. and then alpha centauri.
Lets hope so. Humanity is a pox.
@@1969bones69 You go first. ill pay for the rope. c'mon you know your life is insignificant, no one will even notice.
@@1969bones69
Agreed.👍🇮🇪🇷🇺🇷🇺
Everyone of us will die in end
Gravity accelerates through pulling. Evaporation especially through a tube creates push.
😑💨
Maybe a liquid inside it? But the liquid going from one side to the other in a sea-saw motion implies it had gravity. Then again if it was being pulled/pushed by different planets and the sun that might explain it. That’s *if* it wasn’t frozen.
Given how short a time we've been aware of these near earth objects, we can not honestly say how long they have been in our solar system. If they originate with our solar system, that is all well and good. However, what if they arrived 1000, 2000, or even 6000 years ago? How would we know?
I am an astronomer (Max-Planck-Institute for Radio astronomy). I can say with great confidence that IF this is an alien probe, it would be a badly designed one. Its non gravitational acceleration is near the upper limit, but within the range that has been seen in comets- so there is nothing extraordinary or unexplainable about it. Saying this is an alien probe is like saying a man is an alien because he's seven feet tall.
The best guess is that neither of the two theories will turn out to be correct. There are just too many examples of new findings in space that go against what we thought we knew. The most recent being that galaxies near the edge of the universe are far too advanced in their development, than we would have thought with our current knowledge of galaxy formation. Obviously something was missed. Same thing is going to likely happen with these six dark comets.
I am mostly a layman watching this, but even I could tell where we went wrong, assuming the summary was accurate. The idea that it's (possibly) not a comet, but also not an asteroid, so it must be aliens, even in the absence of any knowledge on the subject is just a formal error in logic. There is too much we don't know, or like you said just some gap in our understanding of the things we do know.
I agree
It will likely turn out to be a new subtype of space object that's very common and just remained undetected/understood By humans until just now...
It means something like "the thing from far away comes."
Oumuamua had space rock camo which is common on ships from civilations that can wipe us out in an instant.
M/s is a measure of velocity, not acceleration.