You can get on my email list and grab my free report "Increase Your Bottom Time - 3 Surefire Tips To Help You Stay Down Longer" here: bit.ly/bottom-time If you are ready for a more lighthearted video now, watch this next: 3 Gross Dive Truths - ruclips.net/video/T4w71MU6dBg/видео.html
Definitely great to bring attention to this. Would love to see a video how this death would have been preventable or what treatment would have been different. If you have a decompression obligation you have a ceiling. Certainly getting bent is better than drowning. Anyways, thanks for spreading the news and follow up video would be great for treatment or what could’ve been done differently if IPO had been identified.
Definitely a condition I beleive should be added to teaching material across the industry. I am a cold water instructor in Canada and I've had a very close call with IPO with a student where they did stop breathing. Fortunately I was able to get them to shore and breathing again and they made a full recovery. But it could have easily been worse and could have possibly been prevented if either me or the other instructor knew of the condition.
PADI NAUI SSI and all other scuba training schools should incorporate this information into their classes....I wish they taught me this as something else to watch for in my diving and watching others dive
I totally agree. So easy to incorporate and could potentially save a life. The author of the article I referenced did have this at the end of the article: "To that end, I asked the four largest UK agencies if they planned to include IPO in their training materials. BSAC told me IPO is already included in its entry-level training programme; RAID will roll it out during the first half of 2023; and SSI already includes IPO in its Extended Range (XR) programmes. PADI declined to comment at this time, but I have no doubt they would follow if more agencies make IPO a standard element of their training materials." So it is getting out to training agencies. Why PADI and NAUI (I assume, not positive) don't teach it is beyond me. Thanks for the input.
@@ScubaDivingSmiles I am SSI Master Diver certified...this should have been incorporated into the lessons leading upto AOW cert...as a MD I still was un familiar with this as it isn't taught...have nit taken XR classes by SSI yet and feel that they missed the boat with this one
@@bjpikas I'm SSI Master Diver since 2001, I have gone through this course work, but not sure if it was on my DAN course, or BSAC Nitrox course. T'was a long time ago, in a sea far far away... I think the other that needs to be really emphasized is Secondary Drowning, I aborted a dive in Portugal when I started tasting the sea water spray coming through a split on the second stage mouthpiece... Wasn't impressed with the dive outfit... Pretty Alarming Diving Idiots... Nuff said. Sad when anyone loses their life to a dive accident, but common sense should have prevailed and the warning signs followed up!
@@ScubaDivingSmiles PADI are probably putting together a new course/workshop for it, for anybody wishing to get a new badge, for a fee... Put Another Dollar In, NAUI were born out of PADI, the Australian Splinter group if I remember rightly, NAUI wanted safer training, I think.
Read about this in DAN’s Alert Diver. Thanks for spreading this information further. While not a great outcome, a potential trip to the deco tank would have been a MUCH better outcome.
Thank you for sharing. I am most shocked to learn that an instructor had no awareness of the condition. My PADI Open Water Course book is decades old and lists the condition. If memory serves, conditions affecting the human body were on the test. It was further reinforced in my Advanced diver training, Rescue Diver Training, etc. etc. etc. on up through all of the specialty courses. But, as with most other professions, a professional can graduate with a "C" average or an "A" average. I always wonder what answers were missed by a low scoring instructor and how one knows whether or not an instructor is good or bad. My father taught architectural engineering and gave out either an "A" or and "F". In his mind, either you build something that endures or you build something that falls down. No instructor should be certified that gets any medical questions wrong. Back to training with for that person and test again in a couple weeks. There is no emergency room in the ocean. If the description here is all there is to the story, the instructor was grossly, and possibly criminally, negligent. Ignorance of known conditions is no excuse.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply Karl. It is good to know it is in the PADI course. I looked in my NAUI book (also decades old, LOL) and did not find it in there. Either way it appears a refresher/reminder - or first time info - never hurts since quite a few people have said they didn't know about this condition. I love your fathers method - A or F when it comes to buildings. And great point that it should be that way for medical questions for instructors. This accident brings that back to the forefront. If you want to read more details on the case here is the article I was referencing in the video: divemagazine.com/scuba-diving-long-reads/accused-a-dive-instructors-wrongful-prosecution-for-manslaughter Thanks again for the input. Truly appreciate it!
Thank you...great information. I'm a life long diver, active divemaster for almost 40 years, but have never heard of this condition. (as an aside, and meant as a critique, not a criticism, all the jump cuts on your video are a bit distracting...)
I read that article and also shared it. I'm a fairly new diver but fwiw I feel like there should also be a clearer sign for medical emergencies. Part of the issue here was that the instructor didn't understand the severity and hence insisted on the safety stop (at first). The "let's go up" and "not feeling great" aren't sufficient as they could mean anything from "I'm a bit worried, let's go shallower" to "I have difficulty breathing". Would you skip a safety stop based on that? Probably not. The reaction to "abort the dive" can also vary. I found that there used to be a sign for medical issues but it doesn't seem in use. Other than that I hope that the various agencies include IPO in their training. The emphasis on DCS was in this case counter productive unfortunately.
Very true Celine. As you say, the signs we use could be interpreted as other things. This was a tough case and I think would have turned out differently if IPO was on their radar. Glad you shared it when you read it. Thanks so much for your input. It is truly appreciated- and gives food for thought. And I too hope the agencies include it in their training. Very easy to do.
Again I'd say if you have a problem and your dive was short anyway. And you're nowhere near the no decompression limits absolutely omit the safety stop get to the surface and get help.
honestly, I do feel like going to blame the student , the student is the first and last judge for his abilities and endurance... I do believe there are a lot of details which lead to this incident... I say this because I read the PADI Law book and gone through many scenarios and the related consequences...
I don't get your point. IPO is part of the training for most organisations BSAC, ScotSAC, SAA, VDST, CMAS etc. It is omitted from the training from the likes of PADI because their modus operandi is to reduce their syllabus as much as possible, many of the medical information is omitted, IPO, PFO, gas density, ICD etc as are some of the gas laws, decompression theory, mandatory decompression diving, gas usage calculations etc. PADI excels at getting divers in the water with the minimum training necessary, by omitting "advanced topics" such as outlined above - hence why it is popular with holiday divers who may only dive 30 times a year or fewer, essentially they can get a diving qualification and start diving whilst away on holiday, and still have time to enjoy the rest of their holiday. Other US style organisations also follow this philosophy. You can't have it both ways, you either reduce the syllabus for commercial purposes, or you include everything like this in the syllabus leading to longer training times. Obviously there are consequences such as this tragic event (by no means unique) with IPO, but there are many other events as a result of many medical, or operational circumstances which similarly, knowledge of which is not included in the training.
Definitely great to bring attention to this. Would love to see a video how this death would have been preventable or what treatment would have been different. If you have a decompression obligation you have a ceiling. Certainly getting bent is better than drowning. Anyways, thanks for spreading the news and follow up video would be great for treatment or what could’ve been done differently if IPO had been identified.
You can get on my email list and grab my free report "Increase Your Bottom Time - 3 Surefire Tips To Help You Stay Down Longer" here: bit.ly/bottom-time
If you are ready for a more lighthearted video now, watch this next: 3 Gross Dive Truths - ruclips.net/video/T4w71MU6dBg/видео.html
Definitely great to bring attention to this. Would love to see a video how this death would have been preventable or what treatment would have been different. If you have a decompression obligation you have a ceiling. Certainly getting bent is better than drowning. Anyways, thanks for spreading the news and follow up video would be great for treatment or what could’ve been done differently if IPO had been identified.
Thanks. Glad you found value in it. A follow-up is a good idea, thx.
Definitely a condition I beleive should be added to teaching material across the industry. I am a cold water instructor in Canada and I've had a very close call with IPO with a student where they did stop breathing. Fortunately I was able to get them to shore and breathing again and they made a full recovery. But it could have easily been worse and could have possibly been prevented if either me or the other instructor knew of the condition.
Wow, that's scary. So glad you were able to help him.
Never heard of this in 100’s of dives since 90’s, thanks
I hadn't either. Thanks for watching.
Not a peep in old NASDS materials. But back then, we didn't have the hypertension problems we have today, so it was an unknown factor.
PADI NAUI SSI and all other scuba training schools should incorporate this information into their classes....I wish they taught me this as something else to watch for in my diving and watching others dive
I totally agree. So easy to incorporate and could potentially save a life. The author of the article I referenced did have this at the end of the article:
"To that end, I asked the four largest UK agencies if they planned to include IPO in their training materials. BSAC told me IPO is already included in its entry-level training programme; RAID will roll it out during the first half of 2023; and SSI already includes IPO in its Extended Range (XR) programmes. PADI declined to comment at this time, but I have no doubt they would follow if more agencies make IPO a standard element of their training materials."
So it is getting out to training agencies. Why PADI and NAUI (I assume, not positive) don't teach it is beyond me. Thanks for the input.
@@ScubaDivingSmiles I am SSI Master Diver certified...this should have been incorporated into the lessons leading upto AOW cert...as a MD I still was un familiar with this as it isn't taught...have nit taken XR classes by SSI yet and feel that they missed the boat with this one
Wasn't sure where the XR classes fell in SSI. I agree, should be taught sooner.
@@bjpikas I'm SSI Master Diver since 2001, I have gone through this course work, but not sure if it was on my DAN course, or BSAC Nitrox course. T'was a long time ago, in a sea far far away... I think the other that needs to be really emphasized is Secondary Drowning, I aborted a dive in Portugal when I started tasting the sea water spray coming through a split on the second stage mouthpiece... Wasn't impressed with the dive outfit... Pretty Alarming Diving Idiots... Nuff said. Sad when anyone loses their life to a dive accident, but common sense should have prevailed and the warning signs followed up!
@@ScubaDivingSmiles PADI are probably putting together a new course/workshop for it, for anybody wishing to get a new badge, for a fee... Put Another Dollar In, NAUI were born out of PADI, the Australian Splinter group if I remember rightly, NAUI wanted safer training, I think.
Read about this in DAN’s Alert Diver. Thanks for spreading this information further.
While not a great outcome, a potential trip to the deco tank would have been a MUCH better outcome.
Absolutely! Thanks for watching and helping spread info too.
Thanks for this information Dianne.
You are more than welcome Joey!
Thank you for sharing. I am most shocked to learn that an instructor had no awareness of the condition. My PADI Open Water Course book is decades old and lists the condition. If memory serves, conditions affecting the human body were on the test. It was further reinforced in my Advanced diver training, Rescue Diver Training, etc. etc. etc. on up through all of the specialty courses.
But, as with most other professions, a professional can graduate with a "C" average or an "A" average. I always wonder what answers were missed by a low scoring instructor and how one knows whether or not an instructor is good or bad. My father taught architectural engineering and gave out either an "A" or and "F". In his mind, either you build something that endures or you build something that falls down.
No instructor should be certified that gets any medical questions wrong. Back to training with for that person and test again in a couple weeks. There is no emergency room in the ocean.
If the description here is all there is to the story, the instructor was grossly, and possibly criminally, negligent. Ignorance of known conditions is no excuse.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply Karl. It is good to know it is in the PADI course. I looked in my NAUI book (also decades old, LOL) and did not find it in there. Either way it appears a refresher/reminder - or first time info - never hurts since quite a few people have said they didn't know about this condition.
I love your fathers method - A or F when it comes to buildings. And great point that it should be that way for medical questions for instructors. This accident brings that back to the forefront. If you want to read more details on the case here is the article I was referencing in the video:
divemagazine.com/scuba-diving-long-reads/accused-a-dive-instructors-wrongful-prosecution-for-manslaughter
Thanks again for the input. Truly appreciate it!
Thank you...great information. I'm a life long diver, active divemaster for almost 40 years, but have never heard of this condition. (as an aside, and meant as a critique, not a criticism, all the jump cuts on your video are a bit distracting...)
Thanks. Glad you found value in it.
I read that article and also shared it. I'm a fairly new diver but fwiw I feel like there should also be a clearer sign for medical emergencies. Part of the issue here was that the instructor didn't understand the severity and hence insisted on the safety stop (at first). The "let's go up" and "not feeling great" aren't sufficient as they could mean anything from "I'm a bit worried, let's go shallower" to "I have difficulty breathing". Would you skip a safety stop based on that? Probably not. The reaction to "abort the dive" can also vary. I found that there used to be a sign for medical issues but it doesn't seem in use. Other than that I hope that the various agencies include IPO in their training. The emphasis on DCS was in this case counter productive unfortunately.
Very true Celine. As you say, the signs we use could be interpreted as other things. This was a tough case and I think would have turned out differently if IPO was on their radar. Glad you shared it when you read it. Thanks so much for your input. It is truly appreciated- and gives food for thought. And I too hope the agencies include it in their training. Very easy to do.
THANKS for the info ,but please apart of call DAN ,what is the first aid we could offer to this diver?
Thanks a lot didnt know about this!
Meaning getting to the surface is more important than safety stop in this case?
Given the outcome, I have to say yes :)
Again I'd say if you have a problem and your dive was short anyway. And you're nowhere near the no decompression limits absolutely omit the safety stop get to the surface and get help.
Totally agree!
Really good information thank you.
So glad you found it useful.
Thank you for sharing
You are more than welcome.
honestly, I do feel like going to blame the student , the student is the first and last judge for his abilities and endurance... I do believe there are a lot of details which lead to this incident... I say this because I read the PADI Law book and gone through many scenarios and the related consequences...
Interesting take on this. Not sure what the Padi law book is. Do you mean the training manual? It goes over this?
@@ScubaDivingSmiles the exact title of the books is " The Law and the Diving Professional" by PADI
I don't get your point.
IPO is part of the training for most organisations BSAC, ScotSAC, SAA, VDST, CMAS etc.
It is omitted from the training from the likes of PADI because their modus operandi is to reduce their syllabus as much as possible, many of the medical information is omitted, IPO, PFO, gas density, ICD etc as are some of the gas laws, decompression theory, mandatory decompression diving, gas usage calculations etc.
PADI excels at getting divers in the water with the minimum training necessary, by omitting "advanced topics" such as outlined above - hence why it is popular with holiday divers who may only dive 30 times a year or fewer, essentially they can get a diving qualification and start diving whilst away on holiday, and still have time to enjoy the rest of their holiday.
Other US style organisations also follow this philosophy.
You can't have it both ways, you either reduce the syllabus for commercial purposes, or you include everything like this in the syllabus leading to longer training times.
Obviously there are consequences such as this tragic event (by no means unique) with IPO, but there are many other events as a result of many medical, or operational circumstances which similarly, knowledge of which is not included in the training.
And how do I prevent my dive buddy's death after I've identified he has IPO? NOTE TO THE VIDEO EDITOR: That part of the video is tragically missing.
Always will be a dangerous sport
Definitely great to bring attention to this. Would love to see a video how this death would have been preventable or what treatment would have been different. If you have a decompression obligation you have a ceiling. Certainly getting bent is better than drowning. Anyways, thanks for spreading the news and follow up video would be great for treatment or what could’ve been done differently if IPO had been identified.