Well-known divorce attorney here. The ability to recognize and avoid getting into a relationship with a narcissist will save you a trip to my office (and likely a therapist’s office). Get educated. Be informed. Vet a potential partner very carefully.
Jonathan Noble Esquire 1) This in formation should taught to teenagers BEFORE they get into one of these ‘relationships’. 2) Narcissist abuse should be the first thing they teach therapist and marriage councillors in their training. 3) Once identified Narcs should have to have it tattooed on their forehead so we can identify them and stay away.
They brag about their niceness and good morals. And at the same time, they are totally unaware of their dark feelings. They are scary and dangerous. They are incapable of being introspective.
My ex did this as well. But that friend never did anything to them. It puzzled me for years. Until I found out my ex is just a POS Narc. I guess it makes them feel superior to badmouth innocent people
- Or whenever you speak positive about someone else instead of them no matter how much that person deserves recognition they will bad mouth about them to you or worse they will accuse you of hoping to have an affair with that person or some other kind of nonsense like according to them you have a delusion that the person whom you are talking positive about is in love with you.
#10 when you anticipate interactions with them, you begin to feel anxious and/or a subtle sense of dread. It is immediate, and you may not even understand the cause. After interactions, you are drained and down. You're relieved it's over and you may feel kind of dirty or used.
Absolutely. It's the same with me. I get a regular phone call every week and I start feeling anxious hours before. I've been 'writing up' the calls in a notebook for nearly 2 years now as a kind of therapy.
@@edmundhunt5158 Yes you are enjoying life and and being productive and then they keep calling ie family. Hard to set boundaries without canceling phone. Tempting
Guilt trips, blame, half truths, twisted words, answering your questions with questions, fits of unexpected rage when it comes to your feelings...they’ll suck the life right outta you, blame YOU for it and you’ll still seem like the insane one.
@@Nutritionistheanswer I know people like that too ! They point fingers , interupt , gang up on people , mocking , slandering , making me feel like I'm always in the wrong .
There is plausible deniability, so you can't find evidence that it's done to hurt you: 1) Silent treatment 2) No eye contact 3) Withholds praise, attention, love and sex 4) Talks to everybody else but ignores you 5) Super kind to everybody else outside the home but ice cold toward you at home 6) Never interested to hear what you have to say 7) Calls you addicted to drama and pretends to be the victim when you want to solve a situation between you 8) Stares at other women/men but accuses you of being jealous or downright deny it when you point it out 9) "Forgets" to hold the self closing door for you, so that it slams right in your face
Yes. Plausible deniability is so accurate. In my very long marriage, it became a given that I was "paranoid" that even I bought it because things never added up. Good list.
I got out of such a relationship last autumn and still relive some of these annihilating situations in my dreams, well i.e. nightmares. It truly feels like emotional detox from my system. I am relieved every day to be free from this confusing and manipulative energy. It is painful to look at the reason why I got in such a relationship in the first place, but it is so worth it and truly liberating.
Here are mine: 1) don't listen/interrupt you and/or walk away while you're in mid-sentence. 2) gossips 3) shames & guilt trips + constant disapproval and complaining 4) passive aggressive - backhanded compliments or backhanded sympathy - backstabbing 5) SHALLOW 6) only cries if being held accountable/called out - never out of genuine compassion or empathy 7) STINGY with everything - money, genuine compliments, kindness, affection 8) MANIPULATIVE even when honesty and assertiveness would work just fine 9) CRITICAL - of everyone but themselves and negative/ungrateful - never happy
My ex would do things like: text me “I’m not ignoring you, I’m at Home Depot.” Me receiving a text, scratching my head, because I am perfectly content; and, no feelings at all of being ignored. I text back something like, “no worries”...but wonder why he is a Home Depot. I text again, asking why is he there, and he responds he is working on a project. Two hours of back and forth and a zillion questions, I finally find out he is at Home Depot buying lumber to make benches for his farm table. Now, a standard person would say that from the get go; but the covert narcissist, intentionally dribbles out unsatisfactory answers, trapping me into asking more questions, which makes me appear needy, and obsessive. Trapping me into a dialogue I didn’t seek, want or need. To make it worse, one last text from me, asking how he got all of that lumber in his car. His answer is: he and “his friend” used his friend’s SUV. Again, setting me up...what friend? Like, who doesn’t just say: “Going to Home Depot with Bill...” So, not only do I get accused of being jealous; but, because the ex was talk texting, “Bill” listens to a one sided conversation, draws conclusion that I’m needy and smothering, and my ex narc setting me up to look bad all along. What is that called other than lying? Manipulation? Gaslighting? Does anyone know? Has anyone experienced this from a covert narc?
1) Treat you as if you were the person they'd been waiting for since they were born 2) Propose after a month or so. Once you're in their net 3)Never stand up for you 4)Make hurtful jokes 5)Belittle you 6)Barge in a conversation when it's not about them 7)Give the silent treatment 8)Lie about everything 9)Never take accountability, not even when they're caught red-handed.
I don't know if silent treatment can be on that list. From personal experiences anyway. I do the silent treatment when I'm really upset until I cool down -- times vary depending on how heated the arguments got. Not talking helps process the argument without making it worse. Until ready to have a civil conversation again.
“They overlook you.” That is a great statement. Once I notice someone who starts designing a friendship or relationship with me without ever inquiring on my perspective or personal philosophy I know I’m in a bad spot. Someone having a sweeping assumption about me without asking many questions is a serious red flag.
Thank you for sharing that! That very thing has happened to me. I wasn't very invested in the relationship, but a person in a class I was teaching became my "bestie", bringing me coffee and constantly seeking conversation about a passion she found out that I had. She sought to disrupt the class and keep my attention. I noticed later, her doing the very same with her boss, owners of businesses she frequented, other instructors, anyone she felt was in charge of anything. I thought it humorous....teacher's pet syndrome, I called it. Now I realize what it was!
On the other side of that is when you do something they don't like and they start accusing you of motivations and thoughts that never occurred to you, or you make a mistake and they say you did it on purpose. A couple examples from my own life: I'd hand my ex wife a plate of hot food and warn her it was hot, but she wouldn't listen and burn her mouth then get mad at me for not warning her and say I did it on purpose. Or, she would ask her mom to get a specific type of item at the store and if her mom got the wrong thing, my ex wife would yell at her and call her "stupid" then accuse her mom of doing it on purpose to deprive the ex wife of whatever it was she asked for. Or, my "favorite", when one of her doctors would request something absolutely routine and absolutely within the realm of their expertise, like a urine or blood sample, she would get angry and make up these grand conspiracies that the doctors were out to get her and they wanted to check her for hard drugs because some former druggie friend was mad at her and told her doctors that she was on drugs and everyone was working against her to ruin her life, when the reality is closer to she has diabetes and takes medication to control it and the doctor wants to test her urine and blood to make sure the medication is working.
When you tell them a sad, funny, crazy or astonishing story and you get NO reaction. Not a wow, omigod, really, you're kidding, that's nuts, or even a simple laugh at the appropriate places in the story.
Yes. This should definitely be added to the list. This point is hardly ever raised in videos. Perhaps it could be called 'withholding reaction". I encounter some form of this with a sibling. Just this by itself is damaging enough.
This can be very crushing, especially when it's a family member. The only solace we have is that, when it happens, we have a clear example of what *not* to do to others.
My husband’s favorite response when I call him out on his silence when asked a question: “I thought it was rhetorical” with a smug look on his face. Heard that line hundreds of times in our years together. The arrogance is infuriating.
Good morning everyone. After reading a majority of the comments, on various narc behavior topics, I was astonished not only to see the incredible SIMILARITIES between posters , but MANY of their experiences AND the FULL NARCS behavior are IDENTICAL to each narc--from being control freaks..To using God and scripture to TRY and convince their points of view, thoughts, feelings, ideas.. To ignoring the partner and the partner's needs.. To ignoring the partner during conversation if the conversation did NOT involve around the narc.. To HATING holidays, birthdays..etc; and PURPOSELY RUINING each holiday, birthday, etc. etc.. To CONSTANTLY projecting their feelings/thoughts, etc. To CONSTANTLY gaslighting etc.. To being cheap..To holding grudges forever... And so much, MUCH MORE.. I'd love to know, from anyone that may have ANY idea including from Dr. Carter, WHY their brains are ALL wired the SAME--even though each narcs background, culture, religion etc, is different. WTH is going on here? (Sorry everyone-frustration kicked in LOL) It's mind boggling, to say the least!
This information makes me want to be a better person. Thick patterns of narcissism run through my family. No doubt even though I'm definitely the odd man out, I recognise elements of them rubbed off on me. Ewww. Going to work on that! I get to decide who I want to be, and it's not that! Thank you.
I've been working on these things in myself for about 10 years (since I had my own children) and it's very possible to work through 😊 all the best to you!
One year with my Covert Narcissist/Dismissive Avoidant: MONTH one : Great MONTH two : Greater MONTH three : Fabulous (heavy love bombing starts/mirroring.) MONTH four : Heaven (I love you.) MONTH five : Seventh heaven. MONTH six : Mask starts to come off (devaluing starts.) Love bombing abruptly stopped. MONTH seven : full devalue/dismissive behavior, refusal to talk about issues by ignoring, silent treatment, she would just look away and it seemed I magically disappeared, aloofness, very strange behavior that you would not believe until it happens to you. It's like they want you in the same house, but in different rooms. MONTH eight : discard phase begins, distancing/lying begins (tons of gaslighting also), begins sabotaging relationship by no longer putting in ANY effort. One sided relationships are not fun at all, so yes, you can be in a relationship and still feel lonely. MONTH nine : VERY passive/aggressive in nature, not a care in the world, lying clearly shows. MONTH ten : Doesn't even call anymore. MONTH eleven : Everything is my fault. MONTH twelve : I left her for good, NO contact at all, PERIOD. She did want to remain friends on social media. I blocked her. MONTH thirteen : I sought therapy and learned words about the Covert Narcissist I never even knew before. MONTH fourteen : Her; closure letter mailed to me, but, she'd like me to respond (Hoovering) Me; NO contact. I'm done with the mind games. Can anybody else relate to this mind boggling behavior?
Absolutely! I stayed with mine for over three years. Mine was live bombing for the first month only. Once I told him I loved him it immediately switched off. I should of left right then but just now learning about the Dismissive Avoidant and Covert Narc creatures. After the first month: -communication stopped, no texting or responses for the entire day. Would ask why and always some great excuse. This only got worse as time went by. -lying and making stuff up to fit whatever situation he was dealing with. -come home hours late, no text or call and tell me he “got busy”. -stealing from me. I set him up once by marking my pain pill bottle right before he arrived. He took six while using my bathroom and I confronted him about it immediately and he started calling me terrible names, shoved me and ghosted for the first time. After six weeks I begged him to come back. -he ghosted five total different times ranging from 6weeks to 3months at a time and only came back if I begged. I always thought it was me since he was a master of gaslighting. -last straw was finding his secret local GAY men’s dating site and knowing he had been having sex with men the whole time. He used me as a cover for his double life and a narcissistic supply. I blocked him and no contact now. I have spent the past five months since in bed trying to recover from all the abuse and mind games.
same timeline for me, but stretched a little more out. I was dealing with this person for a few years until I was completely done with him and started to reflect was when I was noticing that the relationship was all wrong! then a year or so after that was when I learned about the word narcissism.
From my perspective... 1. They always want to be seen as the victim/ martyr/ hero. They'll be full of stories to impress this image on whomsoever will listen. 2. They always need rescuing, create problems which need solving, create tension, drama and chaos over everything 3. They pretend to be humble and benevolent 4. They manipulate people using the other's sense of sympathy and pity, criticism and intimidation 5. They're highly passive aggressive 6. They're subtly sabotaging 7. They have short tempers and can get overtly aggressive and even violent if their covert operations aren't working 8. They coerce and control by disapproval, disappointment, discouragement, devaluation 9. They do what they can to prevent their children from picking up life skills 10. They're never happy with anything their scapegoats/ victims do. 11. They can find the bad in the good. Even if they won the lottery they could find reasons why that is a terrible thing. Nothing will ever be good enough. 12. They will do subtle things to show disrespect, like spoiling posed for photographs (important to the victims) by making faces etc. 13. They will always lament about the perceived bad stuff in their lives, and never be grateful or show true happiness for anything good. 14. If you buy a new appliance or change something around the house they will mentally say "challenge accepted", to destroy/ undo that and other items and changes over time and sometimes quite directly. 15. They'll constantly withdraw support for family/ couple activities, won't support the victims in their endeavours, never compliment, never praise, praise only if in order to triangulate and put down a 3rd party. 16. They put their toxic guilt and shame onto the victims. 17. Very scheming and deceptive. Always looking for their benefit. 18. Always make excuses as to why they can't listen to you or resolve something. 19. Always have illogical justifications for their actions. 20. Are very hypocritical. Of course some of these overlap with overt narcs.
Also: 21. They keep bringing up sad memories from the past to trigger your emotions 22. Take credit for others' actions. Leave the victim's name out of past stories, to show the victim made zero contribution to things. 23. Feigned incompetence. They knowingly do tasks badly/ wrongly so as to manipulate others into always doing them.
Your ex sounds like the CEO of a company I used to work for. He'd praised me in front of my colleagues, but be incredibly invalidating and abusive in private --and of course he felt he could call me at home and harass me whenever he pleased. I so regret not having recorded every incident and pursuing legal action. It was such a psychologically-harmful behavior.
that happened to me in my family of origin....my father used us as narcissistic supply to make him look good in the eyes of others while in the home he did everything possible to undermine us and our lives, control every component of our lives - the narc knows what the needs of others are so much better than anyone else right - and profoundly neglected our individual needs because none of our individual traits meant anything to him unless it could make him look good in the eyes of others
1. Humble-bragging Make themselves seem important without being boastful 2. Over-virtuous - lots of advice, overlook your feelings, no empathy 3. friendly with little real follow-through. When they leave you never hear from them again 4. Eager to hear about your problems but won’t talk about theirs, collect data to feel superior 5. They’re unable to engage deeply with people that are different from them, control mentality, 6. No Curiosity about others’ beliefs, hidden judgement 7. Time management of their own nature, procrastinate or are late everywhere, lack of coordination with others 8. Constantly wondering how they come across with others, have to have extra pats on the back 9. They don’t want to receive feedback from you even if it’s valid. I recognize this behaviour, thank you.
I think 4. Might just as often start with over sharing. Reach out for help by *privately* sharing their "deepest" secrets as a way to get you to trust and get you to share at deep level, rapidly switch the focus to you. Catches empaths very quickly. Normal people might pick this false vulnerability as creepy.
@Traciee Hinns I have occasionaly called them on their 'self-putdowns'. In my experience, some can play 'affronted', others just go silent. I think that the idea behind the putdown is that IF someone does call their BS, they can INTERNALLY play the Victim.
My mom is like that. I usually change the subject. Or suddenly have to go to the bathroom. Mom: "I know I've been a terrible mother." Me: "Oh man, my bladder is about to explode." It's so tempting to say, "yes, you are correct. You have not been a good mother." But it's easier to just go to the bathroom.
True in the US perhaps, but remember that many other people have been taught to do this by their parents and/or culture to avoid being put down by others...
@@LL949 Here we use self-deprecating humor for that. It works pretty well, because people can see that you don't take yourself too seriously. Fishing for compliments or sympathy is something different.
My ex narc would use physiological facts on me to make me feel more attached to him. Like I had to stay with him. So manipulative:( and I found out most of what he said is not true and or he twisted them to make it seem worse.
#6 - lack of curiosity about you. It’s difficult to share with a covert narcissist because there’s no active listening when speaking to them. When people talk, it’s natural to ask questions and provide prompts to further the conversation. I’ve found when the tables are turned and I finally take a moment to share what’s happening in my life, it’s silence on their end. If they do respond, it’s usually to turn the conversation back to them. For years I thought my lack of sharing was due to the lack of drama in my life, but later realized I knew all the details of their life and they knew very little about mine.
In actual fact, you know very little about their lives because most of it is the "good stuff" and exaggerated. They know nothing about your life because they aren't interested, and anything you have told them about it is forgotten, unless it's negative and makes them feel better about themselves.
Fell into this trap with my husband. I'm autistic and very introverted so conversation on our early dates being driven by me asking things and him happy to talk for hours on end felt like a godsend. Oops.
That's so true. And it's kind of a self-perpetuating thing, for me at least - I feel less and less inclined to tell her about myself or what I'm doing, because I know she's not really interested. So when she does, out of a sense of obligation, ask something about me, I feel like I'm suddenly unable to say anything. I've got so used to hearing all about her life and her problems, I've lost the ability or motivation to talk about myself.
1) Talks endlessly about themselves, but has a 30-second tolerance for listening to you. 2) Interrupts your story so often, it takes you four times longer to get through it. 3) Compliments a person and immediately follows up with how much better they are than that person. 4) NEVER asks other people questions about themselves. 5) Shows undue fondness for people who compliment them. 6) Hyper aware of their status in every situation. 7) Expects you to be keenly interested in their life, but does not reciprocate. 8) Views compliments you express about other people as personal threats and reacts with rage and anger. 9) Even the noteworthy events in your life only serve as an opening to turn the conversation back to themselves.
Absolutely like I just poured this out of my own brain and heart... Omg. Every time I open my mouth to speak... He thinks of any sound, word, noise, etc that he can do to drown out the sound of my voice... Then looks up later like "oh were you saying something?" but they are the kind of people that would never dream of having to repeat themselves... Ugh. 😟 so evil.
Do they ask you more than 1 question in a row about yourself? No. Do they empathise when you express feelings? No. Do they compliment you? No. Do they get upset if you disagree with them? Yes Do the admit mistakes? No. Do they blame you? Yes. Do the withhold information because they are afraid? Yes. Do they meltdown when they dont get what they want? Yes. = narcissist.
My guesses: 1) subtle, but persistent love bombing; 2) inauthenticity, have no original ideas of their own; 3) sneaky, deceptive behavior; 4) frequently lie; and 5) they can’t manage their emotions and are often paranoid and/or insecure. But we’ll see what Dr. Carter says.
Number 2 we are writers and they started copying my ideas. I broke it off recently and made sure to give honest criticism, but every time I made sure that they thought everything that they were doing was fine. In order to write effectively you need to permeate through the layers of information and be researching at the same time. You can't have superficial conversations they need to be highly detailed and in depth. Everything must be on the table no topic or idea is sacred!
Id like to add from some groups that I've seen : 1) Extreme Immaturity ("wrestling" with others like a teen), poking people, "teasing " constantly . 2) (Entitled) -dismissive or downright rude to anyone "less than" them (Waitstaff, ex's, (IF your around-otherwise the ex is still in play and told YOUR horrible) 3) They will make "corrections" OFTEN (CONSTANTLY criticize)..especially at the end. 4) Triangulation with ex's, strangers, family and friends. (whichever gets more of a "rise" out of you) 5) Baiting -pushing buttons only THEY know affect you- then will bring you out in public (then will flip out when you react to the baiting you've been silently enduring ) 6) SECRET smear campaigns (you wont know until YEARS later (early signs are people not looking directly at you, watching you "funny" or you suddenly feel a "shift" in how they see you) 7) YOUR illness and injury...... are looked upon as opportunities to "play". 8) Extreme text or calling in the beginning (watch for if they are in other provinces or states (its to keep fantasy and reality APART) (Love bombing) 9) (Discard) then all of a sudden will drop off communication alarmingly one day ( without explanation) - (making YOU try harder (but they are already onto another sources (which is the REAL REASON WHY you don't hear from them) 10) Secrecy with communication- computers and cell phones (MASSIVE FLAG) Phone face down, or never goes off (Even worse) 11) Increased Desensitization with Sexualization- will begin with a rush BUT eventually turns into ONLY their wants and desires (no kissing/cuddling/hand holding)(which are usually shame based acts and become more and more deviant as time goes by) 12) Daily excessive pornography use (FLAG FLAG FLAG FLAG FLAG) HIDING or lying about extent or even viewing porn use. Saying "all guys watch it this much every day, its like a NEWSPAPER to me! " (Nope they don't) 13) You will no longer be taken out WITH them -they will now go "solo" (and disappear for longer and longer "Store" trips or to see "family" (who now are HELPING them - because they think YOU are such a horrible person) -- and eventually you will look around to find no more friends and family standing. 14) CONTROL/Finances: Concentration on a job or income becomes almost impossible as the games and manipulations increase. YOUR money is THEIR money and their money is THEIR money . 15) GHOSTING - At some point they will create "space" for all the side lives . Typically they seem to have about 3-20 strangers or ex's they will REGULARLY talk to - that have no idea your still together (ALWAYS talk to an ex or check out what they are saying) FLAG if you cant just pop into their home they LIVE in or call them nights and weekends. 16) If you come upon them in a group - they will look shocked and like they don't "recognize you" (COMPARTIMENTALIZATION)--- (then either will pull you away quickly ignoring THEM or look annoyed and continue talking to the group while ignoring YOU) 17) Outrageously and obviously flirting with or watching others when with you (to the point others will mention it) You will then be labeled "controlling" or "insecure" for being rightfully indignant at the blatant disrespect. 18) They typically look healthy and full and the other partner will begin to look worn, dull, to thin or to big , and probably jumpy or cranky.
4, 6 and 13 especially ring true for me, for those narcs who are so-called friends and family members. They use these things hoping to beat down your confidence and self-esteem on a long term basis. Evil, truly evil.
I'd say most of these are my ex. Except he never talked bad about me as far as I know. I'm realizing he's a narcissist. Fell for another one. I'm so heartbroken.
1. Criticizes indirectly. Starts sentence with, " I just say some people do......" The some people, they are talking about is you. 2. Conversations are always about them. I once asked my husband what the women did for a living he had just had an half an hour conversation with. He didn't have a clue. 3. May criticize you behind your back to his or her friends and family. 4. Doesn't experience fear, sadness, joy, or grief...only experiences anger. 5. Is very respectful and peaceful..until you call them on behavior 6. Tells everyone except you...how wonderful you are. 7. Never puts in any real efforts for your birthday or other occasions. 8. Never thanks people. (This one I found especially odd....and later telling) 9. Never apologizes....never.
I agree! The one I don't completely agree with though is 'doesn't experience fear'. The covert narcissist I know comes across as a coward to me (with the passive aggressive behavior, like they're afraid to be direct and upfront).
Omg. Yes the waiting. He would come home but sit in the car on the phone forever if he even came home. He would say he was coming but then run into anyone and stay out
As humans (not narcissists), many of us are brought up to see the good, help others, forgive, give everyone a chance or two, don't judge blah blah blah, etc etc. People, PLEASE protect your peace. It is helpful to know the signs, but if you see them and still let these entities into your life, they will destroy you. God gave you discernment, two ears and two eyes for a reason❤︎
From my 26 years living with a cov narc: 1. Puts partner down to elevate themselves. 2. Encourages children to criticise the other parent. 3. Embarrasses partner in front of others (only those whose opinion the cn doesn’t value) 4. Allows their family to put down the partner (re education status, current job) 5. Has no real friends, just work colleagues and those who can provide a needed service. 6. Anniversaries and birthdays are overlooked or minimised. 7. Enjoys partner waiting on them and never offers praise. 8. Coercive when trying to get what they want, chronic lying. 9. Silence. Doesn’t engage in small talk. And a few more subtle signs ! 1. Doesn’t tend to smile and engage with strangers in a social setting, at the shops. 2. Is incapable of just having fun for fun’s sake, never enjoys a laugh with their partner. 3. Focuses all attention on their children and ignores partner. 4. Has no interest in other people’s children. 5. Expects others to plan social events, holidays. 6. Doesn’t see the value in pets (sorry Gus). 7. Treats partner as an indentured slave. 8. Questions partner’s version of reality. 9. Dislikes partner being able to do things that they perceive are their domain. I could go on :)
J S disagree on the pets..they seem to “love” manipulating and controlling dogs. Even heard them say “ I love dogs because they do what I say without talking back, unlike you”
Being with a covert is SO bad that I often find myself wishing I had an overt in place of the covert so that my trauma would've been easier to identify and heal.
Yep. My brothers-in-law are overt narcissists. Nasty, horrible men. Their brother (my husband) is a covert narcissist... A miserable man who has made my life miserable. I feel almost nauseous when people say, "Oh, you married the GOOD brother." My thinking: "Really?...REALLY? You have no idea." After 40 years, the divorce is almost finalized. Glad to be starting a new chapter, but I'm also scared.
@@ptyrrell54 I'm genuinely happy for you. Glad you're breaking away. Being scared after all that you've gone through is very normal. Don't let it stop you from doing what's right for you, though. Feel the fear and do it anyway. Good luck!
Can confirm. I was with an overt once for a short relationship and it was a hell of a lot easier than the covert who came after. The overt never made me feel seriously invested and never love bombed in a subtle and convincing way. The overt was annoying to the point of being comical and their criticisms about my appearance just made me roll my eyes. The covert on the other hand got down into the depths of my soul and really hurt me...it’s disgusting to think about it.
They need the adulation of strangers. They would rather have praise from someone they don't know. They also will put you down in a peculiar, unexpected way to strangers leaving you wondering why that was important to them.
Yes. Like when you are trying to pay attention to what they are saying being told to stop acting coy with them. Or when while they pause for too long when assuming they have finished speaking when you begin offering your opinion too then saying in a loud voice enough for everyone else in the hall to hear, "Why are you always interrupting everyone?" - As if they are on a stage and everyone there was supposed to stay silent during their entire non-existent 'speaking engagement' there that day.
I know this is an old comment but YES. Pretty sure I know someone who is a covert narcissist, and they always cared much more about what complete strangers or acquaintances thought of them than what their own family thought.
My sister is a covert. She can tell you a story about something that's going on in her life, and in the same story, shes the victim and the hero of the story. Its bizarre.
I always find it interesting that my covert narc is the first to complain about being interrupted and that no one listens to him yet that is exactly what he does. Actually whatever he complains about is really a version of what he does to others. That and being an expert in the silent treatment and pretending problems do not exist and redirecting the conversation back to something that involves him or his childhood. It’s amazing how many things he thinks are similar to a story involving his childhood. He always goes back to a past event.
All my married life , my husband says I interrupt him , weird cause I'm still making my point, and he's interrupting me, saying your interrupting me,,, then I lose my train of thought, I can't stand being in a conversation with him, it's like I'm in a marriage with only myself,, alone, no fun laughing smiles hugs easy conversations, it's the pits, then when your old, raising kids in this type of marriage, they end up ,as adults are the same way to you...then your even more alone, guilty, remorseful, depressed. I'll probably be one of those old people alone in a nursing home with 0 visitor's......
🤔 Lets's see: 1. You'll catch them smirking when something "bad" happens to you 2. Lies like a school child & when caught will deny & even laugh 3. Doesn't like pets & have no regard if they accidently step on their paws. 4. Doesn't like children 5. Will give you the silent treatment even when you're in the same room 6. Always the victim & blame others for their own shortcomings 7. No sense of humor 8. Unable to socialize 9. Unable to have healthy & lengthy relationships 10. Jealous & envious 11. Immature & child like mentality. 12. Looks up to superheroes. 13. Pretends to be religious/spiritual 14. Perverted minds
Elle Smith Happy to know other people see & understand about these demons & their fake personas. I never dated a narc, but I have a few of them in my family & relatives 🤦🏽♀️
Cruelty to animals is not tied to narcs. Sense of humor certainly isn't a factor either. Narcs tend to be very good at socializing. I'm not sure narcs look up to superheros, as that would seem to be antithetical to the basic condition.
If it wasn't for you, I would've ended up in a very unhappy relationship. Therefore, I MUST say thank you so much, Dr., for sharing this information with us 🙏🏿 💜
Can't stop talking , usually about themselves .2. Always helpful usually towards other before thier family.3. Happy go lucky unless there is a problem to solve 4. Silence aometimes for days if not weeks.5. Unable to have a serious conversation. I could go on. Oh and lack of responsibility. Childish . extra extra. 😉
Yup, two, three, four, and five for me. Spot on! Evasive so I broke up with her. Every time I was *ALLOWED* to see her it had to be coming back from school or she was going somewhere and she needed a hug. The last time she was called by a family member to help move for a week (rough divorce) and after two weeks of no communication or contact she was like can I get a hug before I go? I was like nope! So basically making it 3 weeks and after that I was done.
1) Finds passive-aggressive ways to lower your self-esteem through loaded questions and backhanded "compliments" 2) When you bring up a topic or event they won't hold themselves accountable for they just don't respond and go silent 3) If told that they hurt you, they want it to be to known it is actually you who hurt them, and you should actually be sorry 4) Tries to make you jealous and tries harder if you don't seem sufficiently offended 5) Makes comments about acts and gestures they want you to perform for them, but will not reciprocate those acts and will still find ways to complain about your gratitude not meeting their needs 6) Pretends to be very socially aware, kind and caring - but only actually cares about preserving those optics so they can harm, manipulate, and coerce while being continually given the benefit of the doubt 7) Acts oblivious to the way they behave and if they do ever apologize it is in the context of "I didn't know it would come across that way" 8) Showers you in affection if they sense you are slipping away, withholds affection if you are getting too close 9) Makes up events and details so they can be disappointed with you for "not remembering" things that never actually happened (smirks when you feel bad for being "unobservant") 10) Gets off on your groveling. Is sexually attracted to you putting yourself down, praising them, or self-sacrificing to please them.
Sometimes they DO come to you and want to discuss their "problems," for attention. "Poor little me, I've had it so rough lately." No, you just want people to feel sorry for you! A heavy martyr streak is common in covert narcs.
So it seems that on this measure, narcissists are damned if they do and damned if they don't, ...share details about themselves. I have a coworker who does this and it costs nothing to sit and listen.
LOL right! I had to strain to listen to some sob stories because I could not find the reason they were so down about something so small. "Yesterday was rough" means one coworker ignored them 😒 Seriously, it's worse than dealing with a kindergartner.
Yes, a heavy martyr streak. Also, a heavy 'messiah complex' in the case of male covert narcissists. They act like they are the only ones who care about the underdogs. Ugh! Dramatic jerks.
@@wisconsinfarmer4742 We all do it sometimes but when its constant and they never reciprocate, it becomes draining and you feel used when they dump their crap on you.
Yes, we do all do it. Sometimes it doesn't cost you anything to just listen, and I do that, but a lot of times they want to drag you in and get you to commiserate or take their side, even if they are being unreasonable. It's one thing to say that it doesn't cost anything to listen, but sometimes there is a high emotional cost to listening, especially if you are empathetic.
The entire subject of narcissism is so complex that it makes my head spin. It was so difficult for me to actually determine what type of narcissism that I was dealing with. So, I just addressed the actions. I was clearly involved in a toxic family relationship. It was clear that it was emotionally killing me. I knew I had to go, regardless of why these things were happening.
both parents and both siblings narcs and it has destroyed my inner core to an extent I never thought possible. Am 59 now and only recently after my father's passing I blew the thing up and decided to go no contact because they all sidelined me and my children from the funeral. Thought I would feel better with no contact but I am dealing for months now with the fall out in my inner self and how long I was subjected to the nonsense. My mother: " what have you done wrong to get cancer?" that was 10 years ago and I only went no contact with the woman recently. Now I feel horrible that I couldn't' be a better mother to my children because of defensive patterns I had to build for myself just to survive the narcs in my family of origin. Brain fog for 50 years. Unbelievable
The only way to win them is avoiding a direct conversation with them yet threatening them indirectly that you will expose their deeds to everyone. The fear of being exposed is what makes them crazy
I asked my covert narc husband of 10+yrs of being married. How come when I cry you never want to give me a hug or just pat on the back and say it's ok? He says, why do you make yourself cry?!😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣😂...I feel like I'm in a relationship with a rock! I think a mime would be more attentive!😁
Someone said to me that I can control my crying so stop. But I realize that that is how she sees and interprets crying in herself. I did move forward with determination to never cry in front of her again. That helps the gray rock process.
He can’t comprehend that the reason you cry is sincere because the only reason he does it is because he ‘makes himself’ so as to manipulate a situation or person.
Mine's not even a narcicicst and he does this .. he can turn around and sleep while I'm in the middle of a breakdown (which doesn't happen too often either)
Covert narc's are very slick. They appear wonderful to everyone else, except the target. Everyone always told me how much my husband loved me...but if so, why didn't I feel that way? He practically ignored me. I felt insignificant, non-existent when I was with him. He never touched me in a loving way. He mirrored my touch when we hugged. It was so unnatural. I felt touch-deprived. He was an odd person... anytime I asked a question, he would answer me with the exact question. I never got answers bc I was too busy defending myself. The pattern of narcissism was like clockwork: love bombing, control, invalidating, gaslighting, seeking new supply, flying monkeys, discard...then ghost or Hoover...
"Relationships in a meaningful way" --- that is exactly what was missing from our 25 year marriage. It broke my spirit, wounded my soul and left me feeling small and worthless...UNTIL I had a name for it! Now I am little by little, and sometimes big leaps, moving into my real life. I am leaving the life that I allowed to be constructed by my Narcissist. I have (with symptoms very similar to bad drug withdrawal) left him and find myself doing things he wouldn't allow. I got my first Christmas Tree in 26 years this year! My 18 & 19 year old sons had their first stockings! I use whatever bowl, dish or cup I want without being told which is for what! I realized when I left that I had a hard time leaving the house to go anywhere without checking in with him. Now I just GO! I ride the waves of happy, sad and meh. I have a long term plan but I'm working to be in the moment & living to sundown tomorrow. No more overloading!
My mother exhibits most of these. Some days it's so hard dealing with her; I've decided I need to do what's right for me and as long as I'm being kind to her, taking care of myself first is my priority.
I have living parents that have this problem. I tend to them - as they are in their late 80s. I Helps to just stay SHALLOW with them but do the loving tasks because you are you and doing you! ( this my stuff I say to myself)
@@natalyatucker3158 thank you for this encouragement. I want to honor my parents as it is the first commandment with a promise! The abuse is traumatic and how can I even discuss my life of experience being raised by two people who seemed to hate me, while honoring them and thereby honoring the Lord? This is an impossibility for a Christian, it would seem. My abusive father passed away several years ago, but my mother is still at it. How can we honor people when we do not respect the way they interact with us personally, or most people around them? Any other Christian's out there with some insight for me?
@@ofhismercy109 I think the word honor can have quite complex meaning. Honor could mean you seeing the awful tragedy of them being a child of God, but not knowing how to live, or how to get anything out of life. One has to honor the truth above all else, I feel. Discussing them is not dishonouring them. I can promise you that. I have struggled with that question. It's part of the deep co-dependency and shame we develop. Best wishes to you, and all others here.
My narcissist is giving me the silent treatment for Christmas for being frustrated at work and, wait for it, having feelings about it that she became aware of. MY feelings caused HER to have a bad day.
The one about time management is often overlooked. I was expected to drop whatever I was doing at any time of the day because he needed....? It has only been recently that I was aware this was a manipulation technique. ( Me) “Can we do that chore at 6:00 am before it gets too hot?” “ No, I don’t want to get up that early.... (later) .... Hey, I need a hand out here!” (It’s 12 noon and 98*). Thanks Doc for your help. It is over.
Mine would try to keep me and the kids busy doing HIS stuff on their days off from school. I finally said half-heartedly, It’s a day vacation. We don’t want to work. The a$$ then said, get outta here and shooed me away as if I was a dog. His mother witnessed it. I am so thankful I divorced him. Recently, I read a book written by Michael Nesmith called The Prison. I quickly compared it to marriage (synonymous with slavery). At times I am lonely, but not enough to give up my freedom.
Vic Baker What do you do with someone who has been abused, neglected, etc., throughout their entire childhood, got into a lot of trouble in their teens, locked up in their 20s, had therapy, studied the Bible, claims they were healed, enough to become a well functioning person, except for the fact that they are a sex addict, and they insist that they absolutely can’t survive without being in charge, and being treated like a King basically, blames anything that isn’t making them feel lusted after or genuinely adored or given praise and reassurance constantly on your lack of affection being the problem, and wants to have sex everyday and makeout often and sort of wants a porn like sex life, and they won’t ever let go of their past, throughout their entire adulthood, so they use it as a crutch and play the sympathy card every chance they see fit? Somehow they’re able to get high paying jobs or run a business, whether poorly or not, they manage to get paid and work hard, but they are terrible at relationships and they don’t have any close friends,.. how do you deal with this person?
Kelly Johnston : You just described my very recently ex husband. Were you talking about my narc or yours? ( trying to be funny, but it’s not funny). My biggest takeaway from all these videos, all the counseling, and dozens of books is, “I cannot change someone else”, and “Narcissists don’t change.” “ if I try to fix it I’m a codependent and an active part of the problem- I cannot fix it” ( and I’m not terribly excited about being a codependent). My best move was talking to an attorney BEFORE I decided to get a divorce, it made me more assured and I felt safer after they told me what to expect. What I wish Dr. C or someone could do is vet Attorneys who specialize in narc abuse. My attorney did passingly well but he stuck me in a house with a sex addict ( you’ve been married for decades and he doesn’t hit you so it’ll be ok - NOT) for nearly a year before the divorce was finalized. Whaaaa! I would have rather taken the beating. Don’t share (ideas or plans) with a narc, they use it to take advantage. If you haven’t viewed Ross Rosenberg or Dr. Ramani, add them to your list. Watch stuff from a year ago. As you learn, you become stronger. 💪💪 Strength to you. Rosenberg is the one who said, If you are going to leave a covert narc, Run, but silently. If they know what you are up to they’ll sabotage you. Hence his foot dragging and my living with my ex for sooooooo long after filling for divorce.( Google Rosenberg covert run quietly)
Hi James, I know we don't know eachother. I'm doing a survey asking people a hypothetical question for a business I'd like to start. Would you ever pay someone to just listen to you and your life problems, concerns, life story?.. please tell me truthfully, not what I want to hear. Thanks for your time! Have a blessed day!
@@truthrangers4815 hi i have looked in to it in the past but its expensive and you dont even get a full hour for the price of a session in many casses. I have had talking therapies funded by the national health service in england for free which we are fortunate to have in this country in the distant past, and had both good and bad experiences from it im autistic and cbt therapy didn't work for me for some reason . Good luck with whatever you decide to do . Kind regards. James
1. Fake happy or sad for you 2. Boasts how others made them feel special 3. Cries crocodile tears 4. Always comparing and jealous of others 5. Counts others blessings 6. Tries to use you and gets upset if you don’t let them 7. Steal others ideas and pretends it’s theirs 8. Super unoriginal 9. Gossips 10. Others misfortune makes them excited and happy 11. Uses sex for favors etc 12. Thinks that they’re better than others but knows that isn’t true so constantly seek validation 13. Always fishing for a compliment by saying how old and ugly they’re to get you to say “no, you’re not ugly and not too old”
I need to say that for friendliness without follow through.... This can be a sign of social anxiety. I have this sometimes and it really doesn’t mean I don’t care about the other person when I don’t follow through, for me it’s just that I sometimes feel nervous to reach out. If I don’t hear from them I wonder if I’m too mushy and they’re secretly weirded out by me. 🥳 Also I like to be completely present if I’m asking someone else about their life, so if I have a lot going on I won’t reach out because I’d rather be absent then give the illusion of presence when my mind is actually far away or not focused on attuning to the other person. Probably a good way to tell the difference is to see if they receive you well when you do reach out and maybe if they apologize about being busy or overwhelmed. People with social anxiety are pretty easily overwhelmed so don’t judge based on this trait alone!
I agree with this! Also, some people sincerely want to follow through, but have other priorities and become overwhelmed. Then the guilt and embarrassment sets in for being a bad friend...hard cycle to get out of with social anxiety!
Yes - also of ADHD (which often coincides with anxiety, but even on its own). Those with ADHD can have a great deal of trouble maintaining commitments to friends, desire it as they might, intend as they might, TRY as they might.
I'm this way also, at the time I am excited to run into a friend, I am genuine by saying let's get together. I ran into a friend the other day, I was excited to see her..and I said lets get together,, she replied, ya say that but we don't get together, in the past I had two others say that to me when I said that,,,,to be honest. I meant it, and truly wished getting together,
Oops not done....my feelings were hurt, by them saying that, cause it is a two way street, they don't call me either, and back when I was young and healthy I called to get together with these 3 gals more than they called me. I find it rude they said that! Anyway I agree! I've gotten really nervous and socially awkward at times in my old age, and although my intentions are genuine, I'm too tired or in to much pain to follow through.
My sister falls into the Covert spectrum very nicely. Victimhood, putting people on guilt trips, treating people as "other" and beneath her if their points of view differ from hers (she has done that to me all our lives). There has always been a shallowness that I started picking up on as a teen.
I'm just learning about the covert narcissist. When I met my mother in law, the first thing she told me was to leave her son alone because he has to study and become an engineer(I was also studying) We've been married 20 years and she still treats me strangely. She has also done things I feel are questionable. She always mentioned how her children's spouses were not good enough for her children. (A punch in the gut). She always puts others down and talks about how high class she is. She has mentioned how she doesn't want to see anyone, only her kids, and when they get together without the spouses, she is so happy and says "I am so happy I am with my family. She always puts me down in subtle ways when we are together like making me feel really uncomfortable and always making herself the center of attention. When I speak with her she always makes it seem like I am below her or just acts in a way I can't point my finger, but I can't connect with her. It feels like she is toying with me. Whenever she meets a man, she disappears and doesn't want her kids to bother her, but when she is alone, she constantly guilts her kids into paying attention to her. She has told her kids she will never go into a residnence and her kids will take care of her when she is old. I bought her a plant once and she literally told me "I never asked you to buy me a plant." The other day I was sharing my son's graduation photos and she said that my husband and son are wonderful and purposely didn't include me. When I put a boundary she gets angry. She often does this when my husband is there and he says nothing. Recently he did say something when I mentioned a cake I made and wanted to share with my sister in law and she intervened saying her daughter also makes better cakes than me. She always makes me feel like I am less than her children. It's really frustrating because it's been happening for years and my husband just says sarcastically "She is special" or don't contact her or speak with her, but I don't feel like he really gets it. Anyway thanks for listening.
I had to keep learning how to set firmer boundaries. My MIL stomps on my boundaries and acts innocent. Dr C's video about how the narc trains you to comply was very validating and helpful for me. My therapist said to stop feeding the alligator hoping it won't bite you. I used to think I was good at boundaries and I was with normal people. But I'd never met anyone like my MIL and it has been years of torment just trying to get her to respect normal boundaries that literally every other person I know respects. I had to absolve myself of the delusion that she would ever grow or get better. I agree with your husband...do not contact her! And if you do something with her as a family, minimize your interactions with her. Keep watching Dr C's videos. Keep practicing healthy boundaries. I hope you find some relief soon!
She seems to be disordered. Know it's not possible to have a loving shared relationship with her. She's jealous of you. I wouldn't even bother to expect anything other than this "strange" behavior. Try killing her with kindness and compliments. Defer to her and perhaps realize that her superior act is really a mask for her feeling insecure. It's not going to be worth your time to hope or expect any differently. Just keep being you but ignore her bids to rile you up or get you to question yourself or your integrity. You know you are worthy. The other thing that helps me in these situations is when she demeaning or dismissive just know that she is reflecting her own feelings...she's projecting out her insecurity and unhappiness in hopes to shed some of it onto you...which in turn (in her mind) makes her more powerful and thus happy. But it's a facade so it's not real. You are real.
This is my ex sister in law to a “T.” Her possessiveness of her younger brother was beyond icky. I was never good enough either. She would take pictures at family gatherings, and it was so obvious when she would move the camera to crop me out of a picture. My ex husband never ever stood up for me; yet expected me to give her and his mother undying respect. Super creepy. You are for real not alone. They are unbelievably mean. I used to think surviving their abuse was a badge of honor somehow. Now I look back at precious years wasted trying to make them happy….when they clearly never can be. 🙏🏻
They love overlooking you until you show you are more than capable of the same things as them if not even more, and they get angry and start throwing a tantrum once you stand up to their game. Then they give you the silent treatment.
Another tactic of covert narcissists is to have many "life has not been fair" stories, at the ready, to gain attention, sympathy, and favors that they will never reciprocate.
If I had a dime for every time my husband told me that life is not fair, how he thought this or that would be easier, or this takes him back to a childhood event or a childhood moment where his mother or father should have taught him something about life, I would be so rich right now. It really reminds me of a little kid who doesn’t want to play a game by the rules but then at least you knew that was a game.
@@Nutritionistheanswer Sorry, gave you a dislike by mistake. My sister was doing missionary work in El Salvador, meanwhile my brother-in-law claimed, "She's gonna see a little mini-me's down there." He can go from overt to covert in the same sentence. I'm glad I've "gray-rocked" him and my co-dependent sister for my own well-being.
Too bad they never discovered soon enough that some professors with tenure who travel around the world too can make big money telling lots of life is unfair stories for illustrating to all of their students how the disease process happens [minus the spiritual component in that disease process ] in which the only names which have been changed are those whom they needed to protect as innocents.
I had a covert narcissist as my manager and she hated it if anyone liked me or complimented me, especially if she was present. If I did something better than her, she immediately declared that she might as well quit trying and just go home. She also withheld information from me, such as a complimentary report/award from our supervisor or the need for me to work extra shifts or attend a required meeting. She also never told me that I was working long enough shifts to have earned a 15 minute break, so I never got a chance to sit down for even a minute during my work day. After serving her loyally for 12 years, I moved to a different position and she has refused to speak to me for more than 5 years now.
Oh, the procrastination. They don''t even do the things they say they're going to do for themselves, and yet we expect them to keep their promises to us. Who's more crazy in this case ?
Colleagues who pretend to be friends but have an agenda , the agenda is all about themselves . What an eye opener. Thanks a lot . Always had my doubts but could never pin point it
I used to want to be like the narcissists in my life - meaning, having the ability to not really care what anyone thinks. That is until I realized what a shallow way to live one’s life. I want to experience the ups & downs and I want to jump for joy with others or sit in the ashes with them when they are hurting. The life of a narcissist must be so empty, futile and a miserable way to live.
Codependents and narcissists both care very much what others think. This is from whence they derive their false sense of who they are. It is a very vulnerable and painful way to live.
so true, they can be suspicious. My friend's mother is a narc and my friend said, My mother said when people helps others they get like a hit (rush). ie projecting when they are demeaning to others they get their hit (supply) but need more.
my god this video just hit me like a ton of bricks. i already knew i was abused in relationships by narcs, but was less aware of COVERT narcissism and now i am realizing why so many friendships/acquaintanceships and other types of relationships felt “off,” all of the things you’ve listed apply to multiple people i know and almost the entire group of people i was around when i was younger. like wtf wow
Was married to a covert narc for 19 yrs, since divorced. Understanding most of the problems were b/c of his narcissism. It was so insidious & now after so many yrs seeing so clearly all the signs Dr. Carter is talking about. So much gas lighting took place which I now understand. Thought I was crazy for over a decade. Couldn’t work anything out, all centered on him, so little if any empathy. But looking to the future & knowing what to /not to look for in a partner. If you have been in a narcissistic relationship don’t beat yourself up but learn , grow & heal to move forward. I didn’t know what it was at the time. I am just now really understanding what I lived through. It affected my kids greatly and are healing and moving forward to.
1. Bragging -interwoven into most conversations, even if you have big stuff of your own going on & the call/interaction was about that. 2. Highly virtuous (Mostly for show) 3. Really friendly when they run into you but very little real follow through ‘let’s catch up for lunch’ no follow through. 4. Data collecting - ask you questions, probing so they can store the information, so they can throw back at you later. 5. Struggle to converse too deeply with people who fall outside their club, their way of thinking & interests, they don’t want to know, not interested. 6. Sense of curiosity missing - no depth in conversations or connections. 7. Time management in their own unique way, usually extremes, rigid or all over the place late and disorganised. 8. Always wondering what people are thinking about them, worrying if they are measuring up are people seeing how special they are. 9. Do not want to receive feedback, even if your approach is diplomatic. H = 6 signs T = 7 signs Two narcissist best friends, who also enable each other and have other enablers and Flying Monkeys. It’s all so obvious now.
My girlfriend and I went to have coffee. There were two tables on the porch. One was empty. There was a man sitting at the other one. I made the mistake of asking him if it was okay for us to sit there. ( This was since social distancing) Dude launched into a 30 minute monologue about himself.
@@susanmadison6466 hahahaha...Oh my God. Yes, I've had the misfortune of crossing paths with people like this too. They might have just met you, yet they immediately make you their emotional dumping ground and launch their 'I, Me, Myself' tirade without even bothering to know if you're listening/tired/have something to do.
The being friendly with little follow up one hit me because I do this but I am being very genuine in my interaction it's just that I have social anxiety disorder and tend to isolate and not contact people out of fear of not being worthy of connection. I also have ADHD and my life is pretty unorganized and chaotic. ❤ so keep in mind that one could be for other reasons too.
"So do you" "So are you" "You do the same thing" "No! YOU are the control freak!" "It's always all about YOU!" "You just want me to sit here and rot!" These are things I hear constantly. I am not allowed to go out and be like other guys, she always has to be there.
Hi Jerry, I know we don't know eachother. I'm doing a survey asking people a hypothetical question for a business I'd like to start. Would you ever pay someone to just listen to you and your life problems, concerns, life story?.. please tell me truthfully. Thanks for your time! Have a blessed day!
All this is completely accurate. Think it's worth mentioning that they are king/queens of the silent treatment. Remember, not saying anything actually speaks volumes. Silence is a response.
I am an adult daughter of the covert n. mother. After many years I discovered why my life was so hard. I am in my 40s and going on therapy because of CPTSD. I Hope my heart, soul and mind will be cured.
Spot on as usual! Thx Dr. C!!! Me: Hey I’d like to talk to you about something you said that made me feel uncomfortable. Covert Narc (after several days of avoidance): Uncomfortable? What does that word even mean??? If i don’t know what that means- it doesn’t exist so you don’t know what you’re talking about. I couldn’t have made you feel uncomfortable. I am a good person! Stop saying bad things about me. Me: (head in hand) Forget it.
All of this...pretty much all of it described my relationship with the ex. I should also say that they will promise to do things with people but never follow through. They're flaky. Also extremely unappreciative of their partner. And very much into the tit-for-tat mindset. They only do things for you when they expect you'll do something for them in return. If they do any household chores at all (which is also their responsibility), they expect you to throw them a parade and worship the ground they walk on. And also another big one- covert narcs lean heavily upon the victim mentality. If their behavior harms someone and they get called out on it, they act like they're the ones being victimized. The lack of self-awareness is incredibly frustrating!
This articulation is exceptionally precise. It's disconcerting how the experience can be emotionally painful, given that, with hindsight, the notions or convictions appear absurd. It's remarkable that we were once ensnared by them.
Wow. This talk is excellent. The gr8 friend who is a master data collector, but manages to reveal nothing personal, ever! Yes, It’s all about power and control.
I'm in the process of leaving my narcassist and I feel like I have to keep watching these videos or else he sucks me right back in with the manipulstion and confusion It is subtle, and it's all these little things that's SO hard to explain. You do a good job at breaking down the language.. it's a very heartbreaking and exhausting situation to be in.
Way back when dinosaurs roamed I had a “friend” who always bragged about her kids. I finally started bragging about mine but only in front of her. I have great kids who are kind and funny as well as intelligent...her’s not.so.much. I realized their behavior was learned from watching their mother and finally ended our relationship (we’d been friends since we were six). I couldn’t wait any longer for her to stop being a mean gossip. She only ever had nasty negative things to say about anyone I inquired about ( I’d moved away from our hometown). I so wish I didn’t have to see her in our wedding photos. 🤬
@@martymaloney1032 covert mothers only look like the perfect mom or fake brag about their kids to make themselves feel better about themselves or their kids that are below average. My sister in law is jealous if my kids because they are both gifted and beautiful.
ah yes!! this is so relatable ! she will put me down behind closed doors... small jabs that can easily fly under the radar but then is just as quick to show me off like a trophy on social media when I achieve something.
@@SurvivingNarcissism been there and been left multiple times or stuck in something opposite of what is was told. I finally said the insanity is enough.
Some coverts always seem to be the victim of life. Every thing goes wrong, they have a terrible amount of bad luck. I met 2 of these in my life and they are horrible, because they make you feel like a sadist if you choose to save yourself. Which is the wise road to take when dealing with a narcisist. People need to learn more about coverts, in my eyes they are more dangerous because you don't spot it right away. Warm greatings from Belgium and a big thanks!
My jaw was dropping the entire video. I couldn’t put my finger on the diagnosis for my boyfriend and THIS is it. This is it. No question he fits every single criteria and I know I’m not the crazy one I KNOW this is accurate. Wow. I’m in shock.
You know what I really like about this gentleman besides his very calming voice and fine counsel? He gets to the point right out the shoot instead of blah, blah blahing on and on for ten or so minutes before even sharing the first point. This was fabulous information.
This one girl in college was the epitome of a data collector. She even told me! She was interested in neuroscience and was basically using my life story as a case study. I caught on after a few years when I realized we were “best of friends” and I knew very little about her background, family conflict, dating history etc. Kind of chilling when I think about it.
I was at a "so-called friend's" house one day. I was getting ready to leave because I had 2 hour bus ride ahead of me. My "friend" told me, "If you leave now, God told me to tell you that's something is bad is going to happen to you." I immediately left and realized that she wanted me to stay because she was lonely and that she wasn't concerned about my safety getting home. Of course, nothing bad happened on my way home.
I have like 3 of these signs and I hope I'm not a narcissist. I struggle with social anxiety and tend to overthink how I'm perceived by people. I'm going to be mindful of narcissistic traits though.
I need to know I’m not alone, please. These are just some of the traits that tell me my mother is probably a covert narcissist: 1) Exhibits toxic positivity whenever you’re lamenting/sad about something. 2) Never validates you in any of your opinions or thoughts; and if the evidence is undeniable that you are correct, it’s only met with silence, never agreement. 3) Will literally give more love, kindness, and care to someone she hardly knows than to someone she birthed. 4) Talks very loudly, especially on the phone or over Zoom. 5) Overlooks and ignores you for not being the person she imagined you’d be and look like. 6) Gets annoyed with you easily. 7) Guilt-trips you. 8) Compares you to others. 9) Her style of comforting is borderline yelling at you while telling you things aren’t that bad (See Trait #1) 10) Never takes accountability and will deny until the very end. Will cry and/or give you the silent treatment when caught/when things don’t go her way. If an apology has to be given, it’s rarely if ever sincere. 11) Will shun anyone who calls her out/corrects/puts their foot down on her dumb nonsense. 12) Thrives and flourishes with other people who are near her on the narcissism spectrum and display similar traits and qualities. Seems to be wary of people that are much higher than her on the spectrum though for some reason (perhaps more malignant narcissists?) (Can anyone explain this?) 13) Actively encouraged me to go back to friends who were abusive to me and to “just forgive them and forget. People make mistakes, etc.” 14) I don’t like hugging her or any kind of physical interaction with her, and don’t like to tell her “love you Mom” because it feels like a twisted lie. 15) Is extremely gregarious in public settings, but cold and quiet behind closed doors. 16) The relationship feels empty and lacking in warmth, like it’s missing something significant in order to thrive and succeed. Can anyone else relate to any of these? I feel so bad sometimes because my Mom definitely isn’t as bad as other narcissistic mothers I’ve heard about (she’s never beaten me physically or anything), but she still makes me feel bad about myself sometimes. My Mom seems like Narcissism Lite, if that makes sense.
Well-known divorce attorney here. The ability to recognize and avoid getting into a relationship with a narcissist will save you a trip to my office (and likely a therapist’s office). Get educated. Be informed. Vet a potential partner very carefully.
Jonathan Noble Esquire
1) This in formation should taught to teenagers BEFORE they get into one of these ‘relationships’.
2) Narcissist abuse should be the first thing they teach therapist and marriage councillors in their training.
3) Once identified Narcs should have to have it tattooed on their forehead so we can identify them and stay away.
THANKS
Jonathan Noble Esq ,What state do you practice in ? I'm not married to it ,but I need help getting it out of my home . I live in northern California.
Janet McCombie Hi. I’m a lawyer in Northern California.
Quiche Lorraine I’m not sure what you mean, but I’m sending you good energy and the hope that things are going well in your life.
They brag about their niceness and good morals. And at the same time, they are totally unaware of their dark feelings. They are scary and dangerous. They are incapable of being introspective.
They talk negatively about their closest friends behind their backs.
My ex did this all. the. time. It was exhausting, especially as we share friends. Well, we did until he alienated them all.
My ex did this as well. But that friend never did anything to them. It puzzled me for years. Until I found out my ex is just a POS Narc. I guess it makes them feel superior to badmouth innocent people
- Or whenever you speak positive about someone else instead of them no matter how much that person deserves recognition they will bad mouth about them to you or worse they will accuse you of hoping to have an affair with that person or some other kind of nonsense like according to them you have a delusion that the person whom you are talking positive about is in love with you.
facts.
Constantly! Everyone is trash...no one is off limits for their back stabbing.
#10 when you anticipate interactions with them, you begin to feel anxious and/or a subtle sense of dread. It is immediate, and you may not even understand the cause. After interactions, you are drained and down. You're relieved it's over and you may feel kind of dirty or used.
Absolutely. It's the same with me. I get a regular phone call every week and I start feeling anxious hours before. I've been 'writing up' the calls in a notebook for nearly 2 years now as a kind of therapy.
@@edmundhunt5158 Yes you are enjoying life and and being productive and then they keep calling ie family. Hard to set boundaries without canceling phone. Tempting
Oh definitely! Him being unpredictable and me never knowing which version I was gonna get next interaction triggered my anxiety.
Amen!!
Ah yes, the mental and emotional exhaustion. I know it well.
Guilt trips, blame, half truths, twisted words, answering your questions with questions, fits of unexpected rage when it comes to your feelings...they’ll suck the life right outta you, blame YOU for it and you’ll still seem like the insane one.
answering questions with questions, yup!
Suck the life right out of you. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Why then do i still feel such pity and i do!
She McGee exactly! If I want to know why he didn’t answer my question suddenly he had no idea what I mean.
@@Nutritionistheanswer I know people like that too ! They point fingers , interupt , gang up on people , mocking , slandering , making me feel like I'm always in the wrong .
Feigning a bad memory..
1. Entitlement
2. Exploitativeness
3. Insecurity
4. Emotional reactivity
5. Self doubt
Just run, run like hell.
Now that I know I always run from first red flag 🚩 😂
There is plausible deniability, so you can't find evidence that it's done to hurt you:
1) Silent treatment
2) No eye contact
3) Withholds praise, attention, love and sex
4) Talks to everybody else but ignores you
5) Super kind to everybody else outside the home but ice cold toward you at home
6) Never interested to hear what you have to say
7) Calls you addicted to drama and pretends to be the victim when you want to solve a situation between you
8) Stares at other women/men but accuses you of being jealous or downright deny it when you point it out
9) "Forgets" to hold the self closing door for you, so that it slams right in your face
Yes. Plausible deniability is so accurate. In my very long marriage, it became a given that I was "paranoid" that even I bought it because things never added up. Good list.
this whole list is so relatable to me.
I got out of such a relationship last autumn and still relive some of these annihilating situations in my dreams, well i.e. nightmares. It truly feels like emotional detox from my system. I am relieved every day to be free from this confusing and manipulative energy. It is painful to look at the reason why I got in such a relationship in the first place, but it is so worth it and truly liberating.
You must have met my ex !😄
This description is perfect
Here are mine:
1) don't listen/interrupt you and/or walk away while you're in mid-sentence.
2) gossips
3) shames & guilt trips + constant disapproval and complaining
4) passive aggressive - backhanded compliments or backhanded sympathy - backstabbing
5) SHALLOW
6) only cries if being held accountable/called out - never out of genuine compassion or empathy
7) STINGY with everything - money, genuine compliments, kindness, affection
8) MANIPULATIVE even when honesty and assertiveness would work just fine
9) CRITICAL - of everyone but themselves and negative/ungrateful - never happy
Ooh, that's good She McGee!
She McGee interrupting OTHER PEOPLE too and not just you, to the point it becomes embarrassingly rude.
Taking things outta context and telling half truths can totally change the entire story AND there’s absolutely no lie actually being told.
@@83steps72 Oh YES!!!
@@davidslocum9536 unfortunately I am all too familiar!
My ex would do things like: text me “I’m not ignoring you, I’m at Home Depot.” Me receiving a text, scratching my head, because I am perfectly content; and, no feelings at all of being ignored. I text back something like, “no worries”...but wonder why he is a Home Depot. I text again, asking why is he there, and he responds he is working on a project. Two hours of back and forth and a zillion questions, I finally find out he is at Home Depot buying lumber to make benches for his farm table. Now, a standard person would say that from the get go; but the covert narcissist, intentionally dribbles out unsatisfactory answers, trapping me into asking more questions, which makes me appear needy, and obsessive. Trapping me into a dialogue I didn’t seek, want or need. To make it worse, one last text from me, asking how he got all of that lumber in his car. His answer is: he and “his friend” used his friend’s SUV. Again, setting me up...what friend? Like, who doesn’t just say: “Going to Home Depot with Bill...” So, not only do I get accused of being jealous; but, because the ex was talk texting, “Bill” listens to a one sided conversation, draws conclusion that I’m needy and smothering, and my ex narc setting me up to look bad all along. What is that called other than lying? Manipulation? Gaslighting? Does anyone know? Has anyone experienced this from a covert narc?
Yessss!!! It’s straight up gaslighting!!!
Wow I have had a thousand conversations exactly like that with my “girlfriend” it’s the same tactic
Yes
Gaslighting for sure!
I hope you are in a position to terminate the relationship with that person. No good will come from it.
1) Treat you as if you were the person they'd been waiting for since they were born 2) Propose after a month or so. Once you're in their net 3)Never stand up for you 4)Make hurtful jokes 5)Belittle you 6)Barge in a conversation when it's not about them 7)Give the silent treatment 8)Lie about everything 9)Never take accountability, not even when they're caught red-handed.
Sounds like people I met they never take responsbility everything is always my fault .
This a very good description of my X.
The Gargoyle and very secretive and deceitful.
@@marierose6792 Mine too.
I don't know if silent treatment can be on that list. From personal experiences anyway.
I do the silent treatment when I'm really upset until I cool down -- times vary depending on how heated the arguments got.
Not talking helps process the argument without making it worse. Until ready to have a civil conversation again.
“They overlook you.” That is a great statement. Once I notice someone who starts designing a friendship or relationship with me without ever inquiring on my perspective or personal philosophy I know I’m in a bad spot. Someone having a sweeping assumption about me without asking many questions is a serious red flag.
Hey, thank you. This is wisdom
Brilliantly said
Thank you for sharing that! That very thing has happened to me. I wasn't very invested in the relationship, but a person in a class I was teaching became my "bestie", bringing me coffee and constantly seeking conversation about a passion she found out that I had. She sought to disrupt the class and keep my attention. I noticed later, her doing the very same with her boss, owners of businesses she frequented, other instructors, anyone she felt was in charge of anything. I thought it humorous....teacher's pet syndrome, I called it. Now I realize what it was!
This is so true. Little little signs of overlooking. Then suddenly big ones if u r grey rocking habitually.
On the other side of that is when you do something they don't like and they start accusing you of motivations and thoughts that never occurred to you, or you make a mistake and they say you did it on purpose.
A couple examples from my own life: I'd hand my ex wife a plate of hot food and warn her it was hot, but she wouldn't listen and burn her mouth then get mad at me for not warning her and say I did it on purpose. Or, she would ask her mom to get a specific type of item at the store and if her mom got the wrong thing, my ex wife would yell at her and call her "stupid" then accuse her mom of doing it on purpose to deprive the ex wife of whatever it was she asked for. Or, my "favorite", when one of her doctors would request something absolutely routine and absolutely within the realm of their expertise, like a urine or blood sample, she would get angry and make up these grand conspiracies that the doctors were out to get her and they wanted to check her for hard drugs because some former druggie friend was mad at her and told her doctors that she was on drugs and everyone was working against her to ruin her life, when the reality is closer to she has diabetes and takes medication to control it and the doctor wants to test her urine and blood to make sure the medication is working.
When you tell them a sad, funny, crazy or astonishing story and you get NO reaction. Not a wow, omigod, really, you're kidding, that's nuts, or even a simple laugh at the appropriate places in the story.
Yes. This should definitely be added to the list. This point is hardly ever raised in videos. Perhaps it could be called 'withholding reaction". I encounter some form of this with a sibling. Just this by itself is damaging enough.
This can be very crushing, especially when it's a family member. The only solace we have is that, when it happens, we have a clear example of what *not* to do to others.
My husband’s favorite response when I call him out on his silence when asked a question: “I thought it was rhetorical” with a smug look on his face. Heard that line hundreds of times in our years together. The arrogance is infuriating.
Good morning everyone. After reading a majority of the comments, on various narc behavior topics, I was astonished not only to see the incredible SIMILARITIES between posters , but MANY of their experiences AND the FULL NARCS behavior are IDENTICAL to each narc--from being control freaks..To using God and scripture to TRY and convince their points of view, thoughts, feelings, ideas.. To ignoring the partner and the partner's needs.. To ignoring the partner during conversation if the conversation did NOT involve around the narc.. To HATING holidays, birthdays..etc; and PURPOSELY RUINING each holiday, birthday, etc. etc.. To CONSTANTLY projecting their feelings/thoughts, etc. To CONSTANTLY gaslighting etc.. To being cheap..To holding grudges forever... And so much, MUCH MORE..
I'd love to know, from anyone that may have ANY idea including from Dr. Carter, WHY their brains are ALL wired the SAME--even though each narcs background, culture, religion etc, is different. WTH is going on here? (Sorry everyone-frustration kicked in LOL)
It's mind boggling, to say the least!
Excellent description. They all (narcs) behave the same! It's like they are dead inside
This information makes me want to be a better person. Thick patterns of narcissism run through my family. No doubt even though I'm definitely the odd man out, I recognise elements of them rubbed off on me. Ewww. Going to work on that! I get to decide who I want to be, and it's not that! Thank you.
I've been working on these things in myself for about 10 years (since I had my own children) and it's very possible to work through 😊 all the best to you!
Same.
Same here.
So proud of you
I recognize a lot in my family too. I watch myself.
One year with my Covert Narcissist/Dismissive Avoidant:
MONTH one : Great
MONTH two : Greater
MONTH three : Fabulous (heavy love bombing starts/mirroring.)
MONTH four : Heaven (I love you.)
MONTH five : Seventh heaven.
MONTH six : Mask starts to come off (devaluing starts.) Love bombing abruptly stopped.
MONTH seven : full devalue/dismissive behavior, refusal to talk about issues by ignoring, silent treatment, she would just look away and it seemed I magically disappeared, aloofness, very strange behavior that you would not believe until it happens to you. It's like they want you in the same house, but in different rooms.
MONTH eight : discard phase begins, distancing/lying begins (tons of gaslighting also), begins sabotaging relationship by no longer putting in ANY effort. One sided relationships are not fun at all, so yes, you can be in a relationship and still feel lonely.
MONTH nine : VERY passive/aggressive in nature, not a care in the world, lying clearly shows.
MONTH ten : Doesn't even call anymore.
MONTH eleven : Everything is my fault.
MONTH twelve : I left her for good, NO contact at all, PERIOD. She did want to remain friends on social media. I blocked her.
MONTH thirteen : I sought therapy and learned words about the Covert Narcissist I never even knew before.
MONTH fourteen :
Her; closure letter mailed to me, but, she'd like me to respond (Hoovering)
Me; NO contact. I'm done with the mind games.
Can anybody else relate to this mind boggling behavior?
This is exactly what happened to me 9 months ago. On and off. I feel relieved that I’m out of it💯
Absolutely! I stayed with mine for over three years. Mine was live bombing for the first month only. Once I told him I loved him it immediately switched off. I should of left right then but just now learning about the Dismissive Avoidant and Covert Narc creatures. After the first month:
-communication stopped, no texting or responses for the entire day. Would ask why and always some great excuse. This only got worse as time went by.
-lying and making stuff up to fit whatever situation he was dealing with.
-come home hours late, no text or call and tell me he “got busy”.
-stealing from me. I set him up once by marking my pain pill bottle right before he arrived. He took six while using my bathroom and I confronted him about it immediately and he started calling me terrible names, shoved me and ghosted for the first time. After six weeks I begged him to come back.
-he ghosted five total different times ranging from 6weeks to 3months at a time and only came back if I begged. I always thought it was me since he was a master of gaslighting.
-last straw was finding his secret local GAY men’s dating site and knowing he had been having sex with men the whole time.
He used me as a cover for his double life and a narcissistic supply. I blocked him and no contact now. I have spent the past five months since in bed trying to recover from all the abuse and mind games.
Yup
Yes, but mine stretched out for 11 years. By year 8, it started to disintegrate
same timeline for me, but stretched a little more out. I was dealing with this person for a few years until I was completely done with him and started to reflect was when I was noticing that the relationship was all wrong! then a year or so after that was when I learned about the word narcissism.
Narcissist epidemic at the times we're living in. Full of insecure, jealous and envious people in the world, it's crazy!
Under lock down under some roofs it must be just unbearable to some people.
@@francesbernard2445 yes. So glad l didn't have to be in lockdown with the Narcissists in my fam. 💗💗💗🌺🌺🌺🌱
The Bible Speaks of this Amen!
I blame TikTok and Instagram for giving narcissists the perfect platform for documenting their delusions of grandeur.
@@AFAskygoddess I blame television and cable keeping boomers selfish
From my perspective...
1. They always want to be seen as the victim/ martyr/ hero. They'll be full of stories to impress this image on whomsoever will listen.
2. They always need rescuing, create problems which need solving, create tension, drama and chaos over everything
3. They pretend to be humble and benevolent
4. They manipulate people using the other's sense of sympathy and pity, criticism and intimidation
5. They're highly passive aggressive
6. They're subtly sabotaging
7. They have short tempers and can get overtly aggressive and even violent if their covert operations aren't working
8. They coerce and control by disapproval, disappointment, discouragement, devaluation
9. They do what they can to prevent their children from picking up life skills
10. They're never happy with anything their scapegoats/ victims do.
11. They can find the bad in the good. Even if they won the lottery they could find reasons why that is a terrible thing. Nothing will ever be good enough.
12. They will do subtle things to show disrespect, like spoiling posed for photographs (important to the victims) by making faces etc.
13. They will always lament about the perceived bad stuff in their lives, and never be grateful or show true happiness for anything good.
14. If you buy a new appliance or change something around the house they will mentally say "challenge accepted", to destroy/ undo that and other items and changes over time and sometimes quite directly.
15. They'll constantly withdraw support for family/ couple activities, won't support the victims in their endeavours, never compliment, never praise, praise only if in order to triangulate and put down a 3rd party.
16. They put their toxic guilt and shame onto the victims.
17. Very scheming and deceptive. Always looking for their benefit.
18. Always make excuses as to why they can't listen to you or resolve something.
19. Always have illogical justifications for their actions.
20. Are very hypocritical.
Of course some of these overlap with overt narcs.
Also:
21. They keep bringing up sad memories from the past to trigger your emotions
22. Take credit for others' actions. Leave the victim's name out of past stories, to show the victim made zero contribution to things.
23. Feigned incompetence. They knowingly do tasks badly/ wrongly so as to manipulate others into always doing them.
My goodness, that's a lot! And accurate too! Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissism Thanks Dr. C
That also overlaps with malignant narcissism
@@Stigmatix666 yes it does a little...
My ex liked to praise me and the kids to other people but invalidated our accomplishments in private
Yes, very typical of narcissism.
Your ex sounds like the CEO of a company I used to work for. He'd praised me in front of my colleagues, but be incredibly invalidating and abusive in private --and of course he felt he could call me at home and harass me whenever he pleased. I so regret not having recorded every incident and pursuing legal action. It was such a psychologically-harmful behavior.
yes!
Same! Same! Same!!!!!! Ughh
that happened to me in my family of origin....my father used us as narcissistic supply to make him look good in the eyes of others while in the home he did everything possible to undermine us and our lives, control every component of our lives - the narc knows what the needs of others are so much better than anyone else right - and profoundly neglected our individual needs because none of our individual traits meant anything to him unless it could make him look good in the eyes of others
1. Humble-bragging Make themselves seem important without being boastful
2. Over-virtuous - lots of advice, overlook your feelings, no empathy
3. friendly with little real follow-through. When they leave you never hear from them again
4. Eager to hear about your problems but won’t talk about theirs, collect data to feel superior
5. They’re unable to engage deeply with people that are different from them, control mentality,
6. No Curiosity about others’ beliefs, hidden judgement
7. Time management of their own nature, procrastinate or are late everywhere, lack of coordination with others
8. Constantly wondering how they come across with others, have to have extra pats on the back
9. They don’t want to receive feedback from you even if it’s valid.
I recognize this behaviour, thank you.
Very much recognise all these!
Marry who gives you money honey and hide your money status
I think 4. Might just as often start with over sharing. Reach out for help by *privately* sharing their "deepest" secrets as a way to get you to trust and get you to share at deep level, rapidly switch the focus to you. Catches empaths very quickly. Normal people might pick this false vulnerability as creepy.
They also put themselves down hoping you will contradict them - a subtle "humble" way of fishing for compliments - false humility.
@Traciee Hinns I have occasionaly called them on their 'self-putdowns'. In my experience, some can play 'affronted', others just go silent. I think that the idea behind the putdown is that IF someone does call their BS, they can INTERNALLY play the Victim.
My mom is like that. I usually change the subject. Or suddenly have to go to the bathroom.
Mom: "I know I've been a terrible mother."
Me: "Oh man, my bladder is about to explode."
It's so tempting to say, "yes, you are correct. You have not been a good mother." But it's easier to just go to the bathroom.
True in the US perhaps, but remember that many other people have been taught to do this by their parents and/or culture to avoid being put down by others...
@@LL949 Here we use self-deprecating humor for that. It works pretty well, because people can see that you don't take yourself too seriously. Fishing for compliments or sympathy is something different.
Oh, and if you do pay them a genuine compliment they act like it's the most bizarre thing they've ever heard, or like they've never heard it before.
Blame shifting, zero empathy, and yes! Collecting data to feel superior
My ex narc would use physiological facts on me to make me feel more attached to him. Like I had to stay with him. So manipulative:( and I found out most of what he said is not true and or he twisted them to make it seem worse.
#6 - lack of curiosity about you. It’s difficult to share with a covert narcissist because there’s no active listening when speaking to them. When people talk, it’s natural to ask questions and provide prompts to further the conversation. I’ve found when the tables are turned and I finally take a moment to share what’s happening in my life, it’s silence on their end. If they do respond, it’s usually to turn the conversation back to them. For years I thought my lack of sharing was due to the lack of drama in my life, but later realized I knew all the details of their life and they knew very little about mine.
In actual fact, you know very little about their lives because most of it is the "good stuff" and exaggerated. They know nothing about your life because they aren't interested, and anything you have told them about it is forgotten, unless it's negative and makes them feel better about themselves.
omg this!
Fell into this trap with my husband. I'm autistic and very introverted so conversation on our early dates being driven by me asking things and him happy to talk for hours on end felt like a godsend. Oops.
@@lavendarcrash2941 Sorry to hear. I glad to hear that you coming into this truth so healing can begin. My mom was a covert narc.
That's so true. And it's kind of a self-perpetuating thing, for me at least - I feel less and less inclined to tell her about myself or what I'm doing, because I know she's not really interested. So when she does, out of a sense of obligation, ask something about me, I feel like I'm suddenly unable to say anything. I've got so used to hearing all about her life and her problems, I've lost the ability or motivation to talk about myself.
1) Talks endlessly about themselves, but has a 30-second tolerance for listening to you.
2) Interrupts your story so often, it takes you four times longer to get through it.
3) Compliments a person and immediately follows up with how much better they are than that person.
4) NEVER asks other people questions about themselves.
5) Shows undue fondness for people who compliment them.
6) Hyper aware of their status in every situation.
7) Expects you to be keenly interested in their life, but does not reciprocate.
8) Views compliments you express about other people as personal threats and reacts with rage and anger.
9) Even the noteworthy events in your life only serve as an opening to turn the conversation back to themselves.
Number 8 is so true.. sigh.
@@Tinnerty It's the most bizarre thing, isn't it?
Spot on
Absolutely like I just poured this out of my own brain and heart... Omg. Every time I open my mouth to speak... He thinks of any sound, word, noise, etc that he can do to drown out the sound of my voice... Then looks up later like "oh were you saying something?" but they are the kind of people that would never dream of having to repeat themselves... Ugh. 😟 so evil.
👏🏼👏🏼
Do they ask you more than 1 question in a row about yourself? No.
Do they empathise when you express feelings? No.
Do they compliment you? No.
Do they get upset if you disagree with them? Yes
Do the admit mistakes? No.
Do they blame you? Yes.
Do the withhold information because they are afraid? Yes.
Do they meltdown when they dont get what they want? Yes.
= narcissist.
Perfect!
My guesses:
1) subtle, but persistent love bombing;
2) inauthenticity, have no original ideas of their own;
3) sneaky, deceptive behavior;
4) frequently lie; and
5) they can’t manage their emotions and are often paranoid and/or insecure.
But we’ll see what Dr. Carter says.
Agree on all of thee above!👍
Number 2 we are writers and they started copying my ideas. I broke it off recently and made sure to give honest criticism, but every time I made sure that they thought everything that they were doing was fine. In order to write effectively you need to permeate through the layers of information and be researching at the same time. You can't have superficial conversations they need to be highly detailed and in depth. Everything must be on the table no topic or idea is sacred!
YES YES
Whats Wrong With Any of these things.
Described my ex perfectly
Id like to add from some groups that I've seen :
1) Extreme Immaturity ("wrestling" with others like a teen), poking people, "teasing " constantly .
2) (Entitled) -dismissive or downright rude to anyone "less than" them (Waitstaff, ex's, (IF your around-otherwise the ex is still in play and told YOUR horrible)
3) They will make "corrections" OFTEN (CONSTANTLY criticize)..especially at the end.
4) Triangulation with ex's, strangers, family and friends. (whichever gets more of a "rise" out of you)
5) Baiting -pushing buttons only THEY know affect you- then will bring you out in public (then will flip out when you react to the baiting you've been silently enduring )
6) SECRET smear campaigns (you wont know until YEARS later (early signs are people not looking directly at you, watching you "funny" or you suddenly feel a "shift" in how they see you)
7) YOUR illness and injury...... are looked upon as opportunities to "play".
8) Extreme text or calling in the beginning (watch for if they are in other provinces or states (its to keep fantasy and reality APART) (Love bombing)
9) (Discard) then all of a sudden will drop off communication alarmingly one day ( without explanation) - (making YOU try harder (but they are already onto another sources (which is the REAL REASON WHY you don't hear from them)
10) Secrecy with communication- computers and cell phones (MASSIVE FLAG) Phone face down, or never goes off (Even worse)
11) Increased Desensitization with Sexualization- will begin with a rush BUT eventually turns into ONLY their wants and desires (no kissing/cuddling/hand holding)(which are usually shame based acts and become more and more deviant as time goes by)
12) Daily excessive pornography use (FLAG FLAG FLAG FLAG FLAG) HIDING or lying about extent or even viewing porn use. Saying "all guys watch it this much every day, its like a NEWSPAPER to me! " (Nope they don't)
13) You will no longer be taken out WITH them -they will now go "solo" (and disappear for longer and longer "Store" trips or to see "family" (who now are HELPING them - because they think YOU are such a horrible person) -- and eventually you will look around to find no more friends and family standing.
14) CONTROL/Finances: Concentration on a job or income becomes almost impossible as the games and manipulations increase. YOUR money is THEIR money and their money is THEIR money .
15) GHOSTING - At some point they will create "space" for all the side lives . Typically they seem to have about 3-20 strangers or ex's they will REGULARLY talk to - that have no idea your still together (ALWAYS talk to an ex or check out what they are saying) FLAG if you cant just pop into their home they LIVE in or call them nights and weekends.
16) If you come upon them in a group - they will look shocked and like they don't "recognize you" (COMPARTIMENTALIZATION)--- (then either will pull you away quickly ignoring THEM or look annoyed and continue talking to the group while ignoring YOU)
17) Outrageously and obviously flirting with or watching others when with you (to the point others will mention it) You will then be labeled "controlling" or "insecure" for being rightfully indignant at the blatant disrespect.
18) They typically look healthy and full and the other partner will begin to look worn, dull, to thin or to big , and probably jumpy or cranky.
4, 6 and 13 especially ring true for me, for those narcs who are so-called friends and family members. They use these things hoping to beat down your confidence and self-esteem on a long term basis. Evil, truly evil.
Last one is so true. My sister is a covert, and all of her ex's have put in weight, and look more baggaged than without her.
😳😲😲 soooooo spot on with my ex!!!!! All of it!!!
All accurate
I'd say most of these are my ex. Except he never talked bad about me as far as I know. I'm realizing he's a narcissist. Fell for another one. I'm so heartbroken.
1. Criticizes indirectly. Starts sentence with, " I just say some people do......" The some people, they are talking about is you.
2. Conversations are always about them. I once asked my husband what the women did for a living he had just had an half an hour conversation with. He didn't have a clue.
3. May criticize you behind your back to his or her friends and family.
4. Doesn't experience fear, sadness, joy, or grief...only experiences anger.
5. Is very respectful and peaceful..until you call them on behavior
6. Tells everyone except you...how wonderful you are.
7. Never puts in any real efforts for your birthday or other occasions.
8. Never thanks people. (This one I found especially odd....and later telling)
9. Never apologizes....never.
Damn. He nails EVERY one of these☆
Good list. I especially heard no apologies, ever.
@@harriethancock never
Exactly. Nailed it.
I agree! The one I don't completely agree with though is 'doesn't experience fear'. The covert narcissist I know comes across as a coward to me (with the passive aggressive behavior, like they're afraid to be direct and upfront).
Best way to deal with a narcissist is to total block them out of your life. Nothing good comes from associating with these types of people.
Walks into a room and greets everyone except you and their best party trick - keeping you waiting and waiting and waiting
Omg. Yes the waiting. He would come home but sit in the car on the phone forever if he even came home. He would say he was coming but then run into anyone and stay out
He asked me, "Why are you always happy? I realized then that it REALLY bothered him to see me smile. 3 years after leaving, I'm smiling all the time.
As humans (not narcissists), many of us are brought up to see the good, help others, forgive, give everyone a chance or two, don't judge blah blah blah, etc etc. People, PLEASE protect your peace. It is helpful to know the signs, but if you see them and still let these entities into your life, they will destroy you.
God gave you discernment, two ears and two eyes for a reason❤︎
@Spring Lemon thanks Lemon. I've been narc-free for over a year and plan to stay this way👍🏾
@@Jackgritty28 you said it ALL
From my 26 years living with a cov narc:
1. Puts partner down to elevate themselves.
2. Encourages children to criticise the other parent.
3. Embarrasses partner in front of others (only those whose opinion the cn doesn’t value)
4. Allows their family to put down the partner (re education status, current job)
5. Has no real friends, just work colleagues and those who can provide a needed service.
6. Anniversaries and birthdays are overlooked or minimised.
7. Enjoys partner waiting on them and never offers praise.
8. Coercive when trying to get what they want, chronic lying.
9. Silence. Doesn’t engage in small talk.
And a few more subtle signs
!
1. Doesn’t tend to smile and engage with strangers in a social setting, at the shops.
2. Is incapable of just having fun for fun’s sake, never enjoys a laugh with their partner.
3. Focuses all attention on their children and ignores partner.
4. Has no interest in other people’s children.
5. Expects others to plan social events, holidays.
6. Doesn’t see the value in pets (sorry Gus).
7. Treats partner as an indentured slave.
8. Questions partner’s version of reality.
9. Dislikes partner being able to do things that they perceive are their domain.
I could go on :)
So sorry JS. I cannot imagine, 26 years of that! 😩
@@davidslocum9536 try 44 years!
Absolutely
J S disagree on the pets..they seem to “love” manipulating and controlling dogs. Even heard them say “ I love dogs because they do what I say without talking back, unlike you”
Nailed it!!💯
Being with a covert is SO bad that I often find myself wishing I had an overt in place of the covert so that my trauma would've been easier to identify and heal.
Yep. My brothers-in-law are overt narcissists. Nasty, horrible men. Their brother (my husband) is a covert narcissist... A miserable man who has made my life miserable. I feel almost nauseous when people say, "Oh, you married the GOOD brother." My thinking: "Really?...REALLY? You have no idea." After 40 years, the divorce is almost finalized. Glad to be starting a new chapter, but I'm also scared.
Yeah if mine was an Overt, I would've left a LONG time ago. It's almost too late once you find out how evil they are. Had me fooled for years
@@ptyrrell54 I'm genuinely happy for you. Glad you're breaking away. Being scared after all that you've gone through is very normal. Don't let it stop you from doing what's right for you, though. Feel the fear and do it anyway. Good luck!
Can confirm. I was with an overt once for a short relationship and it was a hell of a lot easier than the covert who came after. The overt never made me feel seriously invested and never love bombed in a subtle and convincing way. The overt was annoying to the point of being comical and their criticisms about my appearance just made me roll my eyes. The covert on the other hand got down into the depths of my soul and really hurt me...it’s disgusting to think about it.
@@alexap.4816 Exactly!
No curiosity means a hidden sense of judgment towards you!
They need the adulation of strangers. They would rather have praise from someone they don't know. They also will put you down in a peculiar, unexpected way to strangers leaving you wondering why that was important to them.
My ex told his AP I was trying to ruin his son's birthday after he started a fight I tried to stop from happening smh.
Yes. Like when you are trying to pay attention to what they are saying being told to stop acting coy with them. Or when while they pause for too long when assuming they have finished speaking when you begin offering your opinion too then saying in a loud voice enough for everyone else in the hall to hear, "Why are you always interrupting everyone?" - As if they are on a stage and everyone there was supposed to stay silent during their entire non-existent 'speaking engagement' there that day.
I know this is an old comment but YES. Pretty sure I know someone who is a covert narcissist, and they always cared much more about what complete strangers or acquaintances thought of them than what their own family thought.
Exactly
My sister is a covert. She can tell you a story about something that's going on in her life, and in the same story, shes the victim and the hero of the story. Its bizarre.
My sister is exactly the same! Love that you expressed that so succinctly.
That's My Mom😊
😂
My sister too. Unfortunately we are not on speaking terms the past few months because she got tired of me questioning her bs
Sounds like my ex! Lol well put
I always find it interesting that my covert narc is the first to complain about being interrupted and that no one listens to him yet that is exactly what he does. Actually whatever he complains about is really a version of what he does to others. That and being an expert in the silent treatment and pretending problems do not exist and redirecting the conversation back to something that involves him or his childhood. It’s amazing how many things he thinks are similar to a story involving his childhood. He always goes back to a past event.
Oh yes! You always interrupt me!!!!!!! And that was what he did whenever a conversation was not about him...
Confusion and manipulation, that's all they know.
Diane Eberle OMG this is exactly the situation with mine I feel your pain
All my married life , my husband says I interrupt him , weird cause I'm still making my point, and he's interrupting me, saying your interrupting me,,, then I lose my train of thought, I can't stand being in a conversation with him, it's like I'm in a marriage with only myself,, alone, no fun laughing smiles hugs easy conversations, it's the pits, then when your old, raising kids in this type of marriage, they end up ,as adults are the same way to you...then your even more alone, guilty, remorseful, depressed. I'll probably be one of those old people alone in a nursing home with 0 visitor's......
@@weepingsparrow1372 hug and kiss from me
🤔 Lets's see:
1. You'll catch them smirking when something "bad" happens to you
2. Lies like a school child & when caught will deny & even laugh
3. Doesn't like pets & have no regard if they accidently step on their paws.
4. Doesn't like children
5. Will give you the silent treatment even when you're in the same room
6. Always the victim & blame others for their own shortcomings
7. No sense of humor
8. Unable to socialize
9. Unable to have healthy & lengthy relationships
10. Jealous & envious
11. Immature & child like mentality.
12. Looks up to superheroes.
13. Pretends to be religious/spiritual
14. Perverted minds
Naz ......this is my ex he hated my sons made our life a misery everything on your list is my old life .... ThAnkyou
Elle Smith Happy to know other people see & understand about these demons & their fake personas. I never dated a narc, but I have a few of them in my family & relatives 🤦🏽♀️
They have sense of humour
Not everyone likes or wants kids. Hence the proudly child free movement and antinatalism.
Cruelty to animals is not tied to narcs. Sense of humor certainly isn't a factor either. Narcs tend to be very good at socializing. I'm not sure narcs look up to superheros, as that would seem to be antithetical to the basic condition.
If it wasn't for you, I would've ended up in a very unhappy relationship. Therefore, I MUST say thank you so much, Dr., for sharing this information with us 🙏🏿 💜
Can't stop talking , usually about themselves .2. Always helpful usually towards other before thier family.3. Happy go lucky unless there is a problem to solve 4. Silence aometimes for days if not weeks.5. Unable to have a serious conversation. I could go on. Oh and lack of responsibility. Childish . extra extra. 😉
Well, you're dealing with someone who has the emotional maturity of a 10 year old.... If that. 👶
Sounds very familiar 👍
Yup, two, three, four, and five for me. Spot on! Evasive so I broke up with her. Every time I was *ALLOWED* to see her it had to be coming back from school or she was going somewhere and she needed a hug. The last time she was called by a family member to help move for a week (rough divorce) and after two weeks of no communication or contact she was like can I get a hug before I go? I was like nope! So basically making it 3 weeks and after that I was done.
Damn same experience spot on
Do you guys know why they go silent for weeks i want to kinna know then they go super needy mode too and rage mode
1) Finds passive-aggressive ways to lower your self-esteem through loaded questions and backhanded "compliments"
2) When you bring up a topic or event they won't hold themselves accountable for they just don't respond and go silent
3) If told that they hurt you, they want it to be to known it is actually you who hurt them, and you should actually be sorry
4) Tries to make you jealous and tries harder if you don't seem sufficiently offended
5) Makes comments about acts and gestures they want you to perform for them, but will not reciprocate those acts and will still find ways to complain about your gratitude not meeting their needs
6) Pretends to be very socially aware, kind and caring - but only actually cares about preserving those optics so they can harm, manipulate, and coerce while being continually given the benefit of the doubt
7) Acts oblivious to the way they behave and if they do ever apologize it is in the context of "I didn't know it would come across that way"
8) Showers you in affection if they sense you are slipping away, withholds affection if you are getting too close
9) Makes up events and details so they can be disappointed with you for "not remembering" things that never actually happened (smirks when you feel bad for being "unobservant")
10) Gets off on your groveling. Is sexually attracted to you putting yourself down, praising them, or self-sacrificing to please them.
Sometimes they DO come to you and want to discuss their "problems," for attention. "Poor little me, I've had it so rough lately."
No, you just want people to feel sorry for you! A heavy martyr streak is common in covert narcs.
So it seems that on this measure, narcissists are damned if they do and damned if they don't, ...share details about themselves. I have a coworker who does this and it costs nothing to sit and listen.
LOL right! I had to strain to listen to some sob stories because I could not find the reason they were so down about something so small. "Yesterday was rough" means one coworker ignored them 😒 Seriously, it's worse than dealing with a kindergartner.
Yes, a heavy martyr streak.
Also, a heavy 'messiah complex' in the case of male covert narcissists. They act like they are the only ones who care about the underdogs. Ugh! Dramatic jerks.
@@wisconsinfarmer4742 We all do it sometimes but when its constant and they never reciprocate, it becomes draining and you feel used when they dump their crap on you.
Yes, we do all do it. Sometimes it doesn't cost you anything to just listen, and I do that, but a lot of times they want to drag you in and get you to commiserate or take their side, even if they are being unreasonable. It's one thing to say that it doesn't cost anything to listen, but sometimes there is a high emotional cost to listening, especially if you are empathetic.
The entire subject of narcissism is so complex that it makes my head spin. It was so difficult for me to actually determine what type of narcissism that I was dealing with. So, I just addressed the actions. I was clearly involved in a toxic family relationship. It was clear that it was emotionally killing me. I knew I had to go, regardless of why these things were happening.
both parents and both siblings narcs and it has destroyed my inner core to an extent I never thought possible. Am 59 now and only recently after my father's passing I blew the thing up and decided to go no contact because they all sidelined me and my children from the funeral. Thought I would feel better with no contact but I am dealing for months now with the fall out in my inner self and how long I was subjected to the nonsense. My mother: " what have you done wrong to get cancer?" that was 10 years ago and I only went no contact with the woman recently. Now I feel horrible that I couldn't' be a better mother to my children because of defensive patterns I had to build for myself just to survive the narcs in my family of origin. Brain fog for 50 years. Unbelievable
The only way to win them is avoiding a direct conversation with them yet threatening them indirectly that you will expose their deeds to everyone.
The fear of being exposed is what makes them crazy
I asked my covert narc husband of 10+yrs of being married. How come when I cry you never want to give me a hug or just pat on the back and say it's ok? He says, why do you make yourself cry?!😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣😂...I feel like I'm in a relationship with a rock! I think a mime would be more attentive!😁
Someone said to me that I can control my crying so stop. But I realize that that is how she sees and interprets crying in herself. I did move forward with determination to never cry in front of her again. That helps the gray rock process.
He can’t comprehend that the reason you cry is sincere because the only reason he does it is because he ‘makes himself’ so as to manipulate a situation or person.
I feel you sister. Mine does the same thing
Same. You are not alone. It’s the worst thing ever
Mine's not even a narcicicst and he does this .. he can turn around and sleep while I'm in the middle of a breakdown (which doesn't happen too often either)
Covert narc's are very slick. They appear wonderful to everyone else, except the target. Everyone always told me how much my husband loved me...but if so, why didn't I feel that way? He practically ignored me. I felt insignificant, non-existent when I was with him. He never touched me in a loving way. He mirrored my touch when we hugged. It was so unnatural. I felt touch-deprived. He was an odd person... anytime I asked a question, he would answer me with the exact question. I never got answers bc I was too busy defending myself. The pattern of narcissism was like clockwork: love bombing, control, invalidating, gaslighting, seeking new supply, flying monkeys, discard...then ghost or Hoover...
"Relationships in a meaningful way" --- that is exactly what was missing from our 25 year marriage. It broke my spirit, wounded my soul and left me feeling small and worthless...UNTIL I had a name for it! Now I am little by little, and sometimes big leaps, moving into my real life. I am leaving the life that I allowed to be constructed by my Narcissist. I have (with symptoms very similar to bad drug withdrawal) left him and find myself doing things he wouldn't allow. I got my first Christmas Tree in 26 years this year! My 18 & 19 year old sons had their first stockings! I use whatever bowl, dish or cup I want without being told which is for what! I realized when I left that I had a hard time leaving the house to go anywhere without checking in with him. Now I just GO! I ride the waves of happy, sad and meh. I have a long term plan but I'm working to be in the moment & living to sundown tomorrow. No more overloading!
I am so happy to hear about your story of victory.
🥂 to no more overloading!!
My mother exhibits most of these. Some days it's so hard dealing with her; I've decided I need to do what's right for me and as long as I'm being kind to her, taking care of myself first is my priority.
@@natalyatucker3158 My parents are Narcissists too.
@@natalyatucker3158 Thanks, same to you.
I have living parents that have this problem. I tend to them - as they are in their late 80s. I Helps to just stay SHALLOW with them but do the loving tasks because you are you and doing you! ( this my stuff I say to myself)
@@natalyatucker3158 thank you for this encouragement. I want to honor my parents as it is the first commandment with a promise! The abuse is traumatic and how can I even discuss my life of experience being raised by two people who seemed to hate me, while honoring them and thereby honoring the Lord? This is an impossibility for a Christian, it would seem. My abusive father passed away several years ago, but my mother is still at it. How can we honor people when we do not respect the way they interact with us personally, or most people around them? Any other Christian's out there with some insight for me?
@@ofhismercy109 I think the word honor can have quite complex meaning. Honor could mean you seeing the awful tragedy of them being a child of God, but not knowing how to live, or how to get anything out of life. One has to honor the truth above all else, I feel. Discussing them is not dishonouring them. I can promise you that. I have struggled with that question. It's part of the deep co-dependency and shame we develop. Best wishes to you, and all others here.
My narcissist is giving me the silent treatment for Christmas for being frustrated at work and, wait for it, having feelings about it that she became aware of. MY feelings caused HER to have a bad day.
The one about time management is often overlooked. I was expected to drop whatever I was doing at any time of the day because he needed....? It has only been recently that I was aware this was a manipulation technique. ( Me) “Can we do that chore at 6:00 am before it gets too hot?” “ No, I don’t want to get up that early.... (later) .... Hey, I need a hand out here!” (It’s 12 noon and 98*). Thanks Doc for your help. It is over.
I can relate to that tactic as well.
Mine would try to keep me and the kids busy doing HIS stuff on their days off from school. I finally said half-heartedly, It’s a day vacation. We don’t want to work. The a$$ then said, get outta here and shooed me away as if I was a dog. His mother witnessed it. I am so thankful I divorced him. Recently, I read a book written by Michael Nesmith called The Prison. I quickly compared it to marriage (synonymous with slavery). At times I am lonely, but not enough to give up my freedom.
Toni Dozier : “Doing His stuff”yup! . There was never time to help with my stuff, but his stuff always got done.
Vic Baker What do you do with someone who has been abused, neglected, etc., throughout their entire childhood, got into a lot of trouble in their teens, locked up in their 20s, had therapy, studied the Bible, claims they were healed, enough to become a well functioning person, except for the fact that they are a sex addict, and they insist that they absolutely can’t survive without being in charge, and being treated like a King basically, blames anything that isn’t making them feel lusted after or genuinely adored or given praise and reassurance constantly on your lack of affection being the problem, and wants to have sex everyday and makeout often and sort of wants a porn like sex life, and they won’t ever let go of their past, throughout their entire adulthood, so they use it as a crutch and play the sympathy card every chance they see fit? Somehow they’re able to get high paying jobs or run a business, whether poorly or not, they manage to get paid and work hard, but they are terrible at relationships and they don’t have any close friends,.. how do you deal with this person?
Kelly Johnston : You just described my very recently ex husband. Were you talking about my narc or yours? ( trying to be funny, but it’s not funny). My biggest takeaway from all these videos, all the counseling, and dozens of books is, “I cannot change someone else”, and “Narcissists don’t change.” “ if I try to fix it I’m a codependent and an active part of the problem- I cannot fix it” ( and I’m not terribly excited about being a codependent). My best move was talking to an attorney BEFORE I decided to get a divorce, it made me more assured and I felt safer after they told me what to expect. What I wish Dr. C or someone could do is vet Attorneys who specialize in narc abuse. My attorney did passingly well but he stuck me in a house with a sex addict ( you’ve been married for decades and he doesn’t hit you so it’ll be ok - NOT) for nearly a year before the divorce was finalized. Whaaaa! I would have rather taken the beating. Don’t share (ideas or plans) with a narc, they use it to take advantage. If you haven’t viewed Ross Rosenberg or Dr. Ramani, add them to your list. Watch stuff from a year ago. As you learn, you become stronger. 💪💪 Strength to you. Rosenberg is the one who said, If you are going to leave a covert narc, Run, but silently. If they know what you are up to they’ll sabotage you. Hence his foot dragging and my living with my ex for sooooooo long after filling for divorce.( Google Rosenberg covert run quietly)
Subtle manipulation like a slow dripping tap
Hi James, I know we don't know eachother. I'm doing a survey asking people a hypothetical question for a business I'd like to start. Would you ever pay someone to just listen to you and your life problems, concerns, life story?.. please tell me truthfully, not what I want to hear. Thanks for your time! Have a blessed day!
@@truthrangers4815 hi i have looked in to it in the past but its expensive and you dont even get a full hour for the price of a session in many casses. I have had talking therapies funded by the national health service in england for free which we are fortunate to have in this country in the distant past, and had both good and bad experiences from it im autistic and cbt therapy didn't work for me for some reason . Good luck with whatever you decide to do . Kind regards. James
@@jamesnock5572 thank you so much for your reply! I greatly appreciate the feedback!🥰
@@truthrangers4815 no problem take care
@@jamesnock5572 you as well, thanks!
1. Fake happy or sad for you
2. Boasts how others made them feel special
3. Cries crocodile tears
4. Always comparing and jealous of others
5. Counts others blessings
6. Tries to use you and gets upset if you don’t let them
7. Steal others ideas and pretends it’s theirs
8. Super unoriginal
9. Gossips
10. Others misfortune makes them excited and happy
11. Uses sex for favors etc
12. Thinks that they’re better than others but knows that isn’t true so constantly seek validation
13. Always fishing for a compliment by saying how old and ugly they’re to get you to say “no, you’re not ugly and not too old”
I need to say that for friendliness without follow through.... This can be a sign of social anxiety. I have this sometimes and it really doesn’t mean I don’t care about the other person when I don’t follow through, for me it’s just that I sometimes feel nervous to reach out. If I don’t hear from them I wonder if I’m too mushy and they’re secretly weirded out by me. 🥳 Also I like to be completely present if I’m asking someone else about their life, so if I have a lot going on I won’t reach out because I’d rather be absent then give the illusion of presence when my mind is actually far away or not focused on attuning to the other person.
Probably a good way to tell the difference is to see if they receive you well when you do reach out and maybe if they apologize about being busy or overwhelmed. People with social anxiety are pretty easily overwhelmed so don’t judge based on this trait alone!
I agree with this! Also, some people sincerely want to follow through, but have other priorities and become overwhelmed. Then the guilt and embarrassment sets in for being a bad friend...hard cycle to get out of with social anxiety!
Yes - also of ADHD (which often coincides with anxiety, but even on its own). Those with ADHD can have a great deal of trouble maintaining commitments to friends, desire it as they might, intend as they might, TRY as they might.
I'm this way also, at the time I am excited to run into a friend, I am genuine by saying let's get together. I ran into a friend the other day, I was excited to see her..and I said lets get together,, she replied, ya say that but we don't get together, in the past I had two others say that to me when I said that,,,,to be honest. I meant it, and truly wished getting together,
Oops not done....my feelings were hurt, by them saying that, cause it is a two way street, they don't call me either, and back when I was young and healthy I called to get together with these 3 gals more than they called me. I find it rude they said that! Anyway I agree! I've gotten really nervous and socially awkward at times in my old age, and although my intentions are genuine, I'm too tired or in to much pain to follow through.
Yes I'm agree with you, while at the same time it's quite hard to tell since narcissism comes as a spectrum.
Sorry for my english 🙏
My sister falls into the Covert spectrum very nicely. Victimhood, putting people on guilt trips, treating people as "other" and beneath her if their points of view differ from hers (she has done that to me all our lives). There has always been a shallowness that I started picking up on as a teen.
I'm just learning about the covert narcissist. When I met my mother in law, the first thing she told me was to leave her son alone because he has to study and become an engineer(I was also studying) We've been married 20 years and she still treats me strangely. She has also done things I feel are questionable. She always mentioned how her children's spouses were not good enough for her children. (A punch in the gut). She always puts others down and talks about how high class she is. She has mentioned how she doesn't want to see anyone, only her kids, and when they get together without the spouses, she is so happy and says "I am so happy I am with my family. She always puts me down in subtle ways when we are together like making me feel really uncomfortable and always making herself the center of attention. When I speak with her she always makes it seem like I am below her or just acts in a way I can't point my finger, but I can't connect with her. It feels like she is toying with me. Whenever she meets a man, she disappears and doesn't want her kids to bother her, but when she is alone, she constantly guilts her kids into paying attention to her. She has told her kids she will never go into a residnence and her kids will take care of her when she is old. I bought her a plant once and she literally told me "I never asked you to buy me a plant." The other day I was sharing my son's graduation photos and she said that my husband and son are wonderful and purposely didn't include me. When I put a boundary she gets angry. She often does this when my husband is there and he says nothing. Recently he did say something when I mentioned a cake I made and wanted to share with my sister in law and she intervened saying her daughter also makes better cakes than me. She always makes me feel like I am less than her children. It's really frustrating because it's been happening for years and my husband just says sarcastically "She is special" or don't contact her or speak with her, but I don't feel like he really gets it. Anyway thanks for listening.
You’re sifting through a lot! Know that I’m pulling for you! Dr. C
I had to keep learning how to set firmer boundaries. My MIL stomps on my boundaries and acts innocent. Dr C's video about how the narc trains you to comply was very validating and helpful for me. My therapist said to stop feeding the alligator hoping it won't bite you. I used to think I was good at boundaries and I was with normal people. But I'd never met anyone like my MIL and it has been years of torment just trying to get her to respect normal boundaries that literally every other person I know respects. I had to absolve myself of the delusion that she would ever grow or get better. I agree with your husband...do not contact her! And if you do something with her as a family, minimize your interactions with her. Keep watching Dr C's videos. Keep practicing healthy boundaries. I hope you find some relief soon!
She seems to be disordered. Know it's not possible to have a loving shared relationship with her. She's jealous of you. I wouldn't even bother to expect anything other than this "strange" behavior. Try killing her with kindness and compliments. Defer to her and perhaps realize that her superior act is really a mask for her feeling insecure. It's not going to be worth your time to hope or expect any differently. Just keep being you but ignore her bids to rile you up or get you to question yourself or your integrity. You know you are worthy. The other thing that helps me in these situations is when she demeaning or dismissive just know that she is reflecting her own feelings...she's projecting out her insecurity and unhappiness in hopes to shed some of it onto you...which in turn (in her mind) makes her more powerful and thus happy. But it's a facade so it's not real. You are real.
This is my ex sister in law to a “T.” Her possessiveness of her younger brother was beyond icky. I was never good enough either. She would take pictures at family gatherings, and it was so obvious when she would move the camera to crop me out of a picture. My ex husband never ever stood up for me; yet expected me to give her and his mother undying respect. Super creepy. You are for real not alone. They are unbelievably mean. I used to think surviving their abuse was a badge of honor somehow. Now I look back at precious years wasted trying to make them happy….when they clearly never can be. 🙏🏻
It’s called Emotional Incest- I’ve experienced this as well- it’s very creepy, occlusive & ugly.
All the best to you!💙
They love overlooking you until you show you are more than capable of the same things as them if not even more, and they get angry and start throwing a tantrum once you stand up to their game. Then they give you the silent treatment.
Another tactic of covert narcissists is to have many "life has not been fair" stories, at the ready, to gain attention, sympathy, and favors that they will never reciprocate.
If I had a dime for every time my husband told me that life is not fair, how he thought this or that would be easier, or this takes him back to a childhood event or a childhood moment where his mother or father should have taught him something about life, I would be so rich right now. It really reminds me of a little kid who doesn’t want to play a game by the rules but then at least you knew that was a game.
@@Nutritionistheanswer Sorry, gave you a dislike by mistake. My sister was doing missionary work in El Salvador, meanwhile my brother-in-law claimed, "She's gonna see a little mini-me's down there." He can go from overt to covert in the same sentence. I'm glad I've "gray-rocked" him and my co-dependent sister for my own well-being.
Too bad they never discovered soon enough that some professors with tenure who travel around the world too can make big money telling lots of life is unfair stories for illustrating to all of their students how the disease process happens [minus the spiritual component in that disease process ] in which the only names which have been changed are those whom they needed to protect as innocents.
I had a covert narcissist as my manager and she hated it if anyone liked me or complimented me, especially if she was present. If I did something better than her, she immediately declared that she might as well quit trying and just go home. She also withheld information from me, such as a complimentary report/award from our supervisor or the need for me to work extra shifts or attend a required meeting. She also never told me that I was working long enough shifts to have earned a 15 minute break, so I never got a chance to sit down for even a minute during my work day. After serving her loyally for 12 years, I moved to a different position and she has refused to speak to me for more than 5 years now.
Oh, the procrastination. They don''t even do the things they say they're going to do for themselves, and yet we expect them to keep their promises to us. Who's more crazy in this case ?
Got to love the thumbs down ! 13 disgruntled narcissists watched this video so far. Thank you once again for a very helpful video.
Colleagues who pretend to be friends but have an agenda , the agenda is all about themselves . What an eye opener. Thanks a lot . Always had my doubts but could never pin point it
I used to want to be like the narcissists in my life - meaning, having the ability to not really care what anyone thinks. That is until I realized what a shallow way to live one’s life. I want to experience the ups & downs and I want to jump for joy with others or sit in the ashes with them when they are hurting. The life of a narcissist must be so empty, futile and a miserable way to live.
Codependents and narcissists both care very much what others think. This is from whence they derive their false sense of who they are. It is a very vulnerable and painful way to live.
Non narcissists think you are "trying to hard" to be nice when you are just being positive & nice.
so true, they can be suspicious. My friend's mother is a narc and my friend said, My mother said when people helps others they get like a hit (rush). ie projecting when they are demeaning to others they get their hit (supply) but need more.
my god this video just hit me like a ton of bricks. i already knew i was abused in relationships by narcs, but was less aware of COVERT narcissism and now i am realizing why so many friendships/acquaintanceships and other types of relationships felt “off,” all of the things you’ve listed apply to multiple people i know and almost the entire group of people i was around when i was younger. like wtf wow
and in my mind i always was like “howcome im the Emotional Support Giver but its never reciprocated and why are my relationships so empty”
Not only do they like to collect the dirt they like to use it against you, sometimes at a later date which really hits you in the guts.
Was married to a covert narc for 19 yrs, since divorced. Understanding most of the problems were b/c of his narcissism. It was so insidious & now after so many yrs seeing so clearly all the signs Dr. Carter is talking about. So much gas lighting took place which I now understand. Thought I was crazy for over a decade. Couldn’t work anything out, all centered on him, so little if any empathy. But looking to the future & knowing what to /not to look for in a partner. If you have been in a narcissistic relationship don’t beat yourself up but learn , grow & heal to move forward. I didn’t know what it was at the time. I am just now really understanding what I lived through. It affected my kids greatly and are healing and moving forward to.
1. Bragging -interwoven into most conversations, even if you have big stuff of your own going on & the call/interaction was about that.
2. Highly virtuous (Mostly for show)
3. Really friendly when they run into you but very little real follow through ‘let’s catch up for lunch’ no follow through.
4. Data collecting - ask you questions, probing so they can store the information, so they can throw back at you later.
5. Struggle to converse too deeply with people who fall outside their club, their way of thinking & interests, they don’t want to know, not interested.
6. Sense of curiosity missing - no depth in conversations or connections.
7. Time management in their own unique way, usually extremes, rigid or all over the place late and disorganised.
8. Always wondering what people are thinking about them, worrying if they are measuring up are people seeing how special they are.
9. Do not want to receive feedback, even if your approach is diplomatic.
H = 6 signs
T = 7 signs
Two narcissist best friends, who also enable each other and have other enablers and Flying Monkeys. It’s all so obvious now.
Thanks for summarizing! :-)
Well done! That's teamwork! Ty
Thank you
My girlfriend and I went to have coffee. There were two tables on the porch. One was empty. There was a man sitting at the other one.
I made the mistake of asking him if it was okay for us to sit there. ( This was since social distancing)
Dude launched into a 30 minute monologue about himself.
@@susanmadison6466 hahahaha...Oh my God. Yes, I've had the misfortune of crossing paths with people like this too. They might have just met you, yet they immediately make you their emotional dumping ground and launch their 'I, Me, Myself' tirade without even bothering to know if you're listening/tired/have something to do.
When you ring them you lose their interest if it isn't about them.
yesss
Yep as soon as u tell them something about you, they just can’t wait to tell you how theyve had the same , and then ramble on about themselves.
The being friendly with little follow up one hit me because I do this but I am being very genuine in my interaction it's just that I have social anxiety disorder and tend to isolate and not contact people out of fear of not being worthy of connection. I also have ADHD and my life is pretty unorganized and chaotic. ❤ so keep in mind that one could be for other reasons too.
"So do you" "So are you" "You do the same thing" "No! YOU are the control freak!" "It's always all about YOU!" "You just want me to sit here and rot!" These are things I hear constantly. I am not allowed to go out and be like other guys, she always has to be there.
Hi Jerry, I know we don't know eachother. I'm doing a survey asking people a hypothetical question for a business I'd like to start. Would you ever pay someone to just listen to you and your life problems, concerns, life story?.. please tell me truthfully. Thanks for your time! Have a blessed day!
I think my whole life must have been FULL of these folks.... Good Grief! Maybe I will just stick to hanging out with my dogs!
A very viable choice for a lot of us, LOL
Yes same I’ve been attracting them
Great comment "they like to stay in the shallow end." Absolutely true. #6 resonted with me. No curiosity whatsoever. Thanks as always.
All this is completely accurate. Think it's worth mentioning that they are king/queens of the silent treatment. Remember, not saying anything actually speaks volumes. Silence is a response.
They will only give you bread crumbs, and a slice of bread only when they fear they will lose you, and then you are back to bread crumbs.
I am an adult daughter of the covert n. mother. After many years I discovered why my life was so hard. I am in my 40s and going on therapy because of CPTSD. I Hope my heart, soul and mind will be cured.
Spot on as usual! Thx Dr. C!!!
Me: Hey I’d like to talk to you about something you said that made me feel uncomfortable.
Covert Narc (after several days of avoidance): Uncomfortable? What does that word even mean??? If i don’t know what that means- it doesn’t exist so you don’t know what you’re talking about. I couldn’t have made you feel uncomfortable. I am a good person! Stop saying bad things about me.
Me: (head in hand) Forget it.
Omgggg, the “I’m a good person” saying!!! He says it so much, he must be trying to convince himself.
The lack of curiosity is the most hurtful part… :/
they are dangerous. the sooner you understand and the position you need to take
All of this...pretty much all of it described my relationship with the ex. I should also say that they will promise to do things with people but never follow through. They're flaky. Also extremely unappreciative of their partner. And very much into the tit-for-tat mindset. They only do things for you when they expect you'll do something for them in return. If they do any household chores at all (which is also their responsibility), they expect you to throw them a parade and worship the ground they walk on. And also another big one- covert narcs lean heavily upon the victim mentality. If their behavior harms someone and they get called out on it, they act like they're the ones being victimized. The lack of self-awareness is incredibly frustrating!
This articulation is exceptionally precise. It's disconcerting how the experience can be emotionally painful, given that, with hindsight, the notions or convictions appear absurd. It's remarkable that we were once ensnared by them.
Wow. This talk is excellent. The gr8 friend who is a master data collector, but manages to reveal nothing personal, ever! Yes, It’s all about power and control.
I'm in the process of leaving my narcassist and I feel like I have to keep watching these videos or else he sucks me right back in with the manipulstion and confusion
It is subtle, and it's all these little things that's SO hard to explain. You do a good job at breaking down the language.. it's a very heartbreaking and exhausting situation to be in.
Nothing from love to give. Ever. They are closed hearted and only live in their mind.
Heart = Truth : Mind = Ego
The heart is literally just a muscle. All emotion is in the mind.
Keep on counting your blessings while being thankful for the capacity to love instead of only being part of the barter system.
That seems to be the whole population, narcissism seems to be very prevalent.
yes, in America
Yes!!
Covert narcissist is very quiet ، cool and calm .. opposite of overt narcissism.. he is like snake .. suddenly he bits you ..
Acts like a great mother on social media but deep down you know it's all a fake persona to make people think she's great at motherhood.
Oh god yes
Way back when dinosaurs roamed I had a “friend” who always bragged about her kids. I finally started bragging about mine but only in front of her. I have great kids who are kind and funny as well as intelligent...her’s not.so.much. I realized their behavior was learned from watching their mother and finally ended our relationship (we’d been friends since we were six). I couldn’t wait any longer for her to stop being a mean gossip. She only ever had nasty negative things to say about anyone I inquired about ( I’d moved away from our hometown). I so wish I didn’t have to see her in our wedding photos. 🤬
@@martymaloney1032 covert mothers only look like the perfect mom or fake brag about their kids to make themselves feel better about themselves or their kids that are below average. My sister in law is jealous if my kids because they are both gifted and beautiful.
ah yes!! this is so relatable ! she will put me down behind closed doors... small jabs that can easily fly under the radar but then is just as quick to show me off like a trophy on social media when I achieve something.
@@Beeyourself321 Hugs
They aren't really detectable until they act out
Don't ever go on a trip with a narcissist either. They will trap you.
That would not be a good vacation! Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissism been there and been left multiple times or stuck in something opposite of what is was told. I finally said the insanity is enough.
U can feel the Silent dissaproval.but when hes gone i feel like im in heaven.
They can "feel" however they want. Nobody at all is " superior" than another.
Some coverts always seem to be the victim of life. Every thing goes wrong, they have a terrible amount of bad luck. I met 2 of these in my life and they are horrible, because they make you feel like a sadist if you choose to save yourself. Which is the wise road to take when dealing with a narcisist.
People need to learn more about coverts, in my eyes they are more dangerous because you don't spot it right away.
Warm greatings from Belgium and a big thanks!
My jaw was dropping the entire video. I couldn’t put my finger on the diagnosis for my boyfriend and THIS is it. This is it. No question he fits every single criteria and I know I’m not the crazy one I KNOW this is accurate. Wow. I’m in shock.
Right,.... this video fits my sibling completely . She is exactly like this.
I married one 20 years ago. He ruined my life. 😢
You know what I really like about this gentleman besides his very calming voice and fine counsel? He gets to the point right out the shoot instead of blah, blah blahing on and on for ten or so minutes before even sharing the first point. This was fabulous information.
This one girl in college was the epitome of a data collector. She even told me! She was interested in neuroscience and was basically using my life story as a case study. I caught on after a few years when I realized we were “best of friends” and I knew very little about her background, family conflict, dating history etc. Kind of chilling when I think about it.
I was at a "so-called friend's" house one day. I was getting ready to leave because I had 2 hour bus ride ahead of me. My "friend" told me, "If you leave now, God told me to tell you that's something is bad is going to happen to you." I immediately left and realized that she wanted me to stay because she was lonely and that she wasn't concerned about my safety getting home.
Of course, nothing bad happened on my way home.
Playing the God card. Who can argue if you invoke the Ultimate Authority Figure? Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissism Yes. I realized just how manipulating and dangerous she was. She was more than willing to include God in her lie.
I have like 3 of these signs and I hope I'm not a narcissist. I struggle with social anxiety and tend to overthink how I'm perceived by people. I'm going to be mindful of narcissistic traits though.
I need to know I’m not alone, please. These are just some of the traits that tell me my mother is probably a covert narcissist:
1) Exhibits toxic positivity whenever you’re lamenting/sad about something.
2) Never validates you in any of your opinions or thoughts; and if the evidence is undeniable that you are correct, it’s only met with silence, never agreement.
3) Will literally give more love, kindness, and care to someone she hardly knows than to someone she birthed.
4) Talks very loudly, especially on the phone or over Zoom.
5) Overlooks and ignores you for not being the person she imagined you’d be and look like.
6) Gets annoyed with you easily.
7) Guilt-trips you.
8) Compares you to others.
9) Her style of comforting is borderline yelling at you while telling you things aren’t that bad (See Trait #1)
10) Never takes accountability and will deny until the very end. Will cry and/or give you the silent treatment when caught/when things don’t go her way. If an apology has to be given, it’s rarely if ever sincere.
11) Will shun anyone who calls her out/corrects/puts their foot down on her dumb nonsense.
12) Thrives and flourishes with other people who are near her on the narcissism spectrum and display similar traits and qualities. Seems to be wary of people that are much higher than her on the spectrum though for some reason (perhaps more malignant narcissists?) (Can anyone explain this?)
13) Actively encouraged me to go back to friends who were abusive to me and to “just forgive them and forget. People make mistakes, etc.”
14) I don’t like hugging her or any kind of physical interaction with her, and don’t like to tell her “love you Mom” because it feels like a twisted lie.
15) Is extremely gregarious in public settings, but cold and quiet behind closed doors.
16) The relationship feels empty and lacking in warmth, like it’s missing something significant in order to thrive and succeed.
Can anyone else relate to any of these? I feel so bad sometimes because my Mom definitely isn’t as bad as other narcissistic mothers I’ve heard about (she’s never beaten me physically or anything), but she still makes me feel bad about myself sometimes.
My Mom seems like Narcissism Lite, if that makes sense.
After they revealed their true nature to me I blocked them on every thing possible
Hi Kelly, RUN!! Fast and don’t ever see him again!! SAVE yourself from the NARC!!
I feel like you end up feeling a lot of douchy energy from a covert narcissist.