Sunbury Station: Pioneer of Boring Architecture
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2024
- Well, it had to start somewhere. Might as well start here.
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“The biggest modification came in 1940, when it was blown up” - it’s these kind of lines thrown into the an otherwise sincere story that make your channel so entertaining!
"traumatic impromptu redevelopment"?
I laughed out loud at that.
Worthy of Auto Shenanigans, that one.
Reminds me of a friend's description of Southhampton as 'having been extensively remodelled by the Luftwaffe'
@@TheFrogfather1😂😂😂
If there's anybody complaining of this footage being shot on a rainy day: you're wrong. This is the kind of architecture that always gives the impression that it's raining.
Looks better in heavy drizzle
It's a photographer's trick to photograph things on a wet day to emphasise how drab they are. It was handy for fabricating or backing up any point it would help, such as this needs closing, it's not in use; often backed up by passenger nos taken on a wet day, like a Sunday.
@@Nick-ye5kk It would look better in a thick fog, when you couldn't see it.😁😁
@@neilbain8736yes but rain at night shots are often better looking than on a clear dry day
I wasn't about to complain about the rain, more point out the irony of the station being called SUNbury.
Victorian Design Philosophy - Make the Toilets look like part of the main building in style. 1960s Design Philosophy - Make The Main Building Look Like The Toilet Block.
So true it hurts!
modern philosophy: eliminate the toilets, riders can hold it in!
Victorian architecture has a strong sense of civic pride. You arrive in a new town by train and the station says "We know how to make a building, we are proud of our town. Come and see what we have made"
A clasp station says "Nothing to see here. You might as well get back on the train"
And just a few miles from Sunbury, there is Hounslow. They demolished Treaty Road and its elegant Victorian civic centre, library and swimming baths. For a shopping mall.
Asbestos: turning “clasp” into “gasp”.
School asbestos. Durable. Quite bouncy. surprisingly chewy. 😆😆
"oh and asbestos, lots of asbestos" had me giggling but then coughing because my school was 10% windows/90% asbestos.
I'm wondering if the powers that be were aware of the problems of asbestos at the time
@@keithparker1346 originally asbestos was considered a miracle material because it was light weight, durable, and fireproof, so it went into everything. By the 1970s they were well aware that breathing asbestos fibres was bad, but as long as the asbestos was whole and undisturbed, it was perfectly safe, so in most countries it was still used in construction well through the 1980s. The thinking was, as long as it's inside panels and walls, it won't be damaged, so it's fine. It wasn't till the late 1980s they realized that as buildings wear down, and is exposed to wind and weather, the asbestos components break down and the fibres are released. And that's why so many buildings were quarantined in the 1990s to have all the asbestos cleaned out.
It's scary how many secondary schools were built using this method.
Yh I went to one, a year into my time there we were moved from one of the blocks. For the remainder of my time there we only saw people in full hazmat suits allowed to enter to rip out the asbestos 😭
Yes, the good ol' 1970's
I went through lots of these CLASP buildings,hospital clinics, council offices etc, my primary school was built through them, it then got demolished due to poor construction and replaced with a RAAC building that's now been earmarked for closure and rebuilding within the next 10 years. But it is still in use...
Ironically the Victorian era building the school outgrew, is still standing and is now one of those little Tesco Metros, after the local shop and flat were bought out.
And yes, it was a mining area....
I always appreciate the inclusion of architectural elements into your excellent videos, Jago. It’s obviously such an integral part of both the form and function of rail.
As it happens, I was in Dessau the other week, which was the home of the Bauhaus art and architecture school. The ideas of using modular elements in construction and functionalism in design. Although the school was closed in 1933, the ideas have proved very influential. When done well, modernism can produce buildings which are pleasing to look at. When done on the cheap, not so much.
Wokingham had one of these stations (now thankfully bulldozed and rebuilt). I walked past one day while the rotting structure was being repainted, and heard one painter say to the other "don't bother painting that bit, mate, that's the bit everyone pisses against"!
I think Virginia Water too? Certainly the driver's mess room at Staines is, though it now has bits on top.
@@chasselmes8141 Meopham station is also one of those horrid things! I remember distinctly seeing Information display boards from the 1980s there when I was younger!
maybe paint that bit yellow?
@@sillypuppy5940 haha - or a bullseye target!!
That's my local station which now has a building that's quite decent in my opinion. Its south, glass wall certainly attracted the driver of a Land Rover shortly after it opened as he rammed it to facilitate removing cash from the booking office! However, when I see photos of the original Victorian structure I realise what we have lost. A bit sad, really.
Gives me Toronto subway station vibes. (The vibes are best expressed with a weary sigh.)
@@redcuillin Agreed! The first older TTC station that springs to mind as having any visual interest is maybe Dupont, but I think that was built after the sad Toronto architecture boom of the '50s/'60s so maybe it doesn't count.
Just sat down to enjoy your Sunbury video with coffee and a banana as a reward for working until 10.00am. Reached for banana and knocked coffee into my lap. Now sitting here in damp trousers with another coffee held tightly in both hands. Sometimes I wonder if its worth carrying on.....anyway Sunbury.
this excellent video brings back memories of many, many buildings i'd rather forget.
You are the Pevsner to my wheeled suitcase of Greater London rail memorabilia
Even dull stones are turned over on this channel, great!!
Well, a picture of my old school near Nottingham was the very last thing I was expecting to see in this video!
I was at Kempton Park station a few weeks ago, and you can literally see trains at Sunbury station down the line when standing on the platforms.
Sounds like the gap between Upton Park and Plaistow on the London District Line
Kempton Park station, when I lived in Sunbury, was only open on race days, so that's probably the reason the two stations are so close to each other. Philip Heselton
True it is very near
@@user-kt4gu6qu7d Yes, Kempton Park once was a race day only station, there also used to be a siding to 'stable' race-day traffic (a long time ago).
It looks like a temporary office on a building site
That brought back memories of Ronan Point.
Ronan point didnt have the steel frames. Just the panels stacked on top of each other with a floor panel in-between .
@@Mitch-HendrenI think Mr H made a video about it a while back.
The prefab "CLASP" system of building became very popular at the same time in East Germany, where it is known as "Plattenbau". Almost unknown in West Germany.
If it wasn't for the fact that if it was a station, it would be mistaken for a School building if it was in the vicinity of one
Yes, this style of building is in a class of its own. (waits for trap door to the crocodile pit to open under me...)
But not being near a school it's definitely a library.
In the 1960s we were still trying to produce buildings to replace those which had been lost in WW2. Function was much more important than appearance.
As an alumnus of the University of York it was nice to see a brief shot of Vanburgh College, the campus was another pioneer of CLASP buildings.
I've passed through Sunbury station a couple of times, but don't think I've ever used it.
I was always told that the Shepperton branch was originally intended to meet up with the Chertsey branch (where I grew up), but it never did.
The university of York cerierty has more furtureism about
Yes, the original idea was to run on to Chertsey. Which is why the (original) station at Shepperton was built as a through-station, not a terminus, with an up platform which was redundant.
Appreciate that you refrained from using the words 'ugly', or even 'hideous'.
I mean, they're not hideous.
The phrase "damned by faint praise" describes that building, and its entire style of building.
There's nothing hideous about them, but there's nothing *inspirational,* either. It's four walls and a prefabricated roof and that's your lot.
This brings back memories of visting my nan, who lived in Shepperton. We'd travel up by train 2 or 3 times a year to see her for a week or two. I seem to remember Job's Dairy being next to the station. That was back in the 70's/80's. I'm preety sure the site was full of flats the last time I used that line
A good rainy video always make everything look very drab! I was around Sunbury in the 1980's so saw this building back then! Thanks for the memory! 🤣
It is drab. Everything now is drab. I live in a town where even the locals admit "it looks better in't fog"
Theres no doubt that sunbury is practical rather than aesthetically pleasing. This is a theme carries on throughout stations in Spelthorne and Runnymede
I now have a name for the architecture I loathe the most. CLASP. Thank you Mr H
That big yellow brick building behind the station to the left is lovely. I like the big round window.
I worked in that building, it wasn't anything special...
@@robc.9559 Doesn't have to be special to be pretty I guess. What did you do in that building? It looks like it be government somehow...
@PtolemyJones when I worked in it, it was an insurance brokerage...
An enduring memory of vinegar stinking CLASP 'buildings' at Virginia Water was during the enforced daily 29min wait .... after having seen the Reading train pull out of the station whilst the Chertsey Flier was held at the home signal ... day in, day out until I got fed up and bought a car, which did Addlestone - Bracknell in damn nearly less time than I'd spent changing trains.
In my station ratings, Virginia Water came very low down in the list of stations you would want to spend time on waiting for a train. Only slightly higher than Weybridge.
So glad you included my station Berrylands - the epitomy of drab...
This style of passenger station began in the U.S. during the 1950s and continued into the 1990s. The long-distance passenger train version is called an "Amshack." Since some of the largest cities in America get only 2-4 trains a day, Amshack's serve many very large cities, even when the original passenger station is still standing. A good example is Cincinnati, OH, where the original station is now a museum.
Although utterly uninspired and drab, an Amshack is usually warm in the winter, when they are most necessary. It's better than nothing more than an open bus shelter, which is what you will find at Green River, WY, Thurmond, WV, Wasco, CA, and even Yuma, AZ.
Born and raised in Hampton to a car-less family so it was nice be visually reacquainted with the station, which I frequented often.
I remember occasionally seeing the old beige ATP trains hurtling through on test runs way back when, and there was one sat in the nearby Strawberry Hill depot through much of the 90's.
There’s a few of these at a station called Hilsea just outside Portsmouth. Fascinating video, explains these odd buildings I’ve seen on various networks ❤love this channel
Old Fashioned and Neglected in their 60s, thats my grandad again
Elmers End has a similar style building, great video J!
Nice to see my local station, I wish they would finally allow Oyster/ contactless cards at Sunbury & Kempton it’s such a nightmare if you’re commuting into central London cause you have to get off at Hampton and then wait 30 minutes for a bus
I actually LIVE in Sunbury, and completely agree with all your comments. Unfortunately, the station isn't even on the oyster system!
The larger buidings remind me if Triang's Arkitex model construction sets of the 1960s, while Sunbury station itself puts me in mind of the original Hornby Dublo stations
Hello Jago, “blown up” that reminds me of one of your videos where you mentioned the Luftwaffe and there involvement in town planning in the 1940s. But, I have a vague memory of a building “that was improved off the face of the Earth” when it was demolished in 1901, that building being the old town hall in Tonbridge (Kent). Apologies if I have got it wrong. Keep up the excellent work. Best wishes from Oxfordshire
Sunbury is also here in Melbourne, is electrified and has a 40-minute daytime frequency, so 2 trains an hour sounds lush in comparison!
I like the fact that you filmed this on a suitably miserable day, it brought out the depressing mundaneness of Sunbury Station.
Thank you for a not so boring video. Buildings like that make you appreciate what the Victorians gave us.
I went to one of the CLASP schools shown, and my local line (Reading line) had mostly CLASP stations, and only found out they were the same system a couple of years ago
Upon proudly proclaiming that I knew what CLASP stood for, my wife gave me that look. Again.
My local station, Kidderminster, in Worcestershire, had a similarly bland building. The original building it had when it opened in 1852 was replaced by another in 1859, then that building was destroyed by fire in 1863. It was then replaced by a lovely Mock Tudor building, but in 1968 it was demolished due to dry rot and replaced with a simple rectangular brick structure, not too dissimilar to the CLASP building, in 1974. In 2017 construction of a new, larger, glass fronted building started, which opened in 2020. It's... alright, I think, but the contrast in looks between that and the GWR style building of Kidderminster Town station (the terminus of the Severn Valley Railway), a mere 50/60-odd yards away from the mainline station, is still noticable.
Kidderminster is alright, but I much preferred the heritage station across the road! The pub there was a nice setting for a few pre match pints
@@Mikeb1001 Yeah, I prefer the heritage railway station as well. Though the new building at the National Rail station is better than what we had, but I wish the Mock Tudor building hadn't rotted away.
All those buildings and all that asbestos. A great legacy.
I can't be the only one (I grew up in nearby Twickenham) who does not pronounce Sunbury as Sun-bur-ree but as Sun-bree?
It's quite exciting hearing it pronounced differently! I didn't know Sunbury could be pronounced any other way!
I grew up in Sunbury. I used to think that the phrase "all and sundry" was "all in Sunbury"! Philip Heselton
As a former Teddingtonian (Fulwell actually), I agree: 'Sun-bree' was the invariable pronunciation.
@@harstan7333 Actually Sumbree! Philip Heselton
Hay! Watch it, Hazzard. I have fond memories of Sunbury Station. Back in the day I lived opposite Shepperton Station, and in slow days - they were mostly slow days - the booking clerk/ticket collector/porter/station announcer at Sunbury would jump on the down train to Shepperton and stay on it as the up train jumping off again at Sunbury... That was his career! 😂
In the 80's i think this was the last line out of waterloo to get automatic doors, thats how forgotten it was
Somehow, this architecture class just works for me. It's like a blast from a very British, very '80s past. Anyone else feeling it? :)
Is Jago Stalking me?
I flew into the UK today to attend a funeral in Sunbury later this week.
I'll be using Sunbury Station tomorrow.
If you go down a few stops to Shepperton, they got an old carriage at the end of the platform, and they are using it as offices.
These are so typical of the Southern, and as such they have a certain nostalgia to them. Some examples really ought to be preserved for their historical significance
As awful as these buildings are, I do believe at least some need to be preserved. Historically these sorts of things are what enabled us to put the war behind us - historically they were vital.
There is a part of me that actually really likes the class style of buildings from that era. They are brilliant in their simplicity.
Asbestos has good anti-rust properties. It's also safe if undisturbed.
But don’t breathe in anywhere near it
@@markherzog9484 that's only a problem if the asbestos is disturbed in any way.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 And probably for the workers who made the slabs.
likewise landmines. Why can't people just leave then alone?
@@emjayay no, they and their families would have got problems. But then the asbestos isn't undisturbed.
“You are the steel frame to my concrete panel” is an oddly poignant, rather touching sign off. Good work 👍🏼
I recently came across a video about the whole Modernism in Mid-Century Britain. Fascinating.
My old school was built by using the CLASP method. The year before us was the last (unless they went on to sixth fourm) to see a full Secondary Education in the old building, which was demolished and a newer building put up in 2018. I do wish I had asked to get a little piece of concrete, as some of my best memories were made in its halls, despite how draughty and cold it was in winter! However, the new build is far better and now there's lots of room to expand into should the school need it.
Post war architects take of the future was abysmal and depressing.
It's likely that a fair number of them thought there probably wouldn't _be_ a future. A middle-aged European living in the 1950s had direct personal memory (if not experience) of two near-apocalyptic world wars, and had every reason to suspect that a third and final one was on the horizon. On top of the monumental pressures from above to keep costs down, what use is it making anything _pretty_ under those conditions?
It was all about functionality rather than looking pretty. Architects are also restricted by planning regulations
One line used as a siding to park trains that had taken passengers to Kempton Park races, waiting to take them back. Many years ago.
When racing from Kempton Park was televised, you could see the trains parked up.
That part of Sunbury, and Sunbury Cross is not known for its beautifil buildings, maybe except the waterworks. Sunbury Cross could do with a 40's style modification, LOL.
That style of Architecture is what school was
I can't help but feel that our Jago was clasping for anything kind to say about the style of building construction used at Sunbury.
I had a girlfriend who lived in sunbury, back when I was at college. I used to get to and from there by train.
The station always felt quite "unlovely" and unloved.
I also had a girlfriend who lived in Hampton, and despite being geographically very close, and in reality offering the same sort of services and facilities, Hampton station always felt much less threatening, more pleasing to the eye, and more pleasant to be in and around.
Of course this should in no way be considered to be a reflection on the girlfriends in question.
I went to a Nottinghamshire school, that style of architecture was instantly recognisable. I guess some of our buildings were part of why it was invented.
I worked in Sunbury for 25 years - and I never knew all this.
This explains why Meopham Station is so grim.
The powers that be got rid of a lovely Victorian Station in Oxford (I am just old enough to remember it) and replaced it with a structure not dissimilar to Sunbury in the 60s.. This claspy station has itselfbeen replaced - no great loss IMHO. The station building at Belmont (south of Sutton) may well have been another. Its no longer there to compare - this time they didnt build a replacement.
The "other" buildings you showed reminded me of my secondary school which was built in the early 50s. Maybe too early for Clasp or an early example? (are you sure the S stood for steel?)
Sorry - the old GWR station at Oxford was not lovely! Timber, gas lit and very run down.
@@rolandharmer6402 I was about 6 when it was "got rid of". It was much more interesting than what they replaced it with.
The 1971 station was built on the assumption that railways were in terminal decline, Oxford-Birmingham would be closed and Oxford would just be the terminus of a shuttle from Paddington. So when BR bucked up its socks in the 80s, it became chronically undersized, as well as boring architecturally.
> Maybe too early for Clasp or an early example? (are you sure the S stood for steel?)
There have been a number of different prefabricated-panel systems over the years. Some have steel frames (e.g., CLASP) or wood or concrete frames. While others make the panels themselves load-bearing, and fasten them together _without_ a frame (e.g., the Larsen & Nielsen system of Ronan Point).
East Grinstead had a CLASP station until they found asbestos on a routine inspection. How they'd missed it for the first fourty years I do not know...
The new Network Rail station is also modular, but I dare say far more visually appealing than CLASP ever was. I do hope they keep and list at least one of them though, even if it's as a warning to future generations!
Weird seeing my hometown train station turn up in my feed. I had no idea it was destroyed in the war and rebuilt, I've never seen any photos of the old station. I'd always assumed it was just beamed into existence in the 70s, after they ploughed the M3 through Sunbury Common.
The excitement of the Shepperton line is never knowing if the train is going to run
Neatly combining Jago's interests in railways and architecture. The rather bleak styling also feels reminiscent of Euston and the London Midland electrification of the 1960s.
CLASP isn't all bad. Much of the University of York was built out of it, and in the late 1960s it served its purpose well. It had the great advantage that the buildings concerned could be put up quickly, and with careful design it could provide a good place to live and work in.
Should've hired UERL's very own Charles Holden to design the station.
He expired in 1960, and had most likely retired before then.
That said, what a brilliant person can make, less-brilliant people can still *copy.*
Never heard of "Clasp" b4 Jago - Every day is a Skool er er I mean School Day!!! 😉😁🚂🚂🚂
I often take into focus the buildings that now often surround the station , beautiful and interesting modern architecture. In the case of Sudbury , that modern building on the left of most of the shots almost seem part of the station , they certainly improve the general aesthetic and the area visually . So one might not notice the “boring “ station building. Well I don’t anyway.
Jago, you've touched on what it is that architects and designers appreciate in modernism, brutalism and so forth. Essentially, it is meaning.
A building like this is a response to the economic, cultural and social context in which it was created. In this case, the station is a conscious and deliberate attempt to create a modern transport network from the fragments of an old fashioned and dilapidated and bombed out system. This meaning makes the building beautiful, even if it isn't exactly pretty.
The original Victorian architecture was likewise an attempt to present the railways as an upper class opulence available to everyone in a society that is highly class aware. In this sense it also has a deep meaning the underlies it's beauty.
However, when the Victorian style is removed from the Victorian context, it looses all this meaning and becomes a pastiche with very little to love.
If the station had, after the war, been rebuilt in the Victoran style it would be entirely forgettable. It would be considered as an unimportant reproduction with no particular value.
Excellent as usual, Jago!
Please do a video on Shepperton! Or the wider Shepperton line. I think it would be really interesting
"The station had a few modifications over the years, but the biggest modification came in 1940. . . .
When it was blown up." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I lived in Sunbury from 1952 to 1964. Somewhere I have a photograph of the original building on the south side of the line, which I took on my Brownie 127 camera in the early 1960s. I could probably find it if you're interested. I think it looked very simi9lar to the one you've shown at Fulwell. I seem to remember a very boring, probably temporary station building on the north side which must have been temporary after the original was bombed during the war. I haven't got a photo of that: I probably considered it too boring to photograph! Philip Heselton
WELL DONE JAGO EXCELLENT WORK AS USUAL
I remember getting the old 18 from London Bridge to go nose about Sunbury where it terminated then got the train back as back then my BR "PT" card meant super cheap train travel and it was actually a grand day out. I only ever ventured there again buying an ex British Gas Transit luton for £200 from a bloke out there, always remember that fondly as I made more money in a month with that Luton than anything else lol
Sunbury is also a station on the public transport map in Melbourne, Australia.
Some nice shots of Berrylands station hidden in there. Upcoming video on my old stomping ground?
Goody!!
An new video from Mr H
i look forward to these thanks dude
As you say the main point about CLASP buildings was that they could be built over disused coal mines, prevalent in Notts avoiding sunsidence. A similar sytem was used in Herts just after the war, for school buildings hundreds built and still in use
The idea of modular, factory-made components assembled within a framework allowing local variations is pretty good. It's just a pity that the aesthetic they were following was a cheap version of Brutalism. The whole thing expresses a lack of interest, rising to actual contempt, for the way ordinary people experience public space, like the "architecture" of the New Towns (I saw Basildon when it was new, and thought that actually looked quite good, but we can all make mistakes). There's also the fact that concrete grows all sorts of dingy fungi and mildews that makes it look permanently dank (tip: benzalkonium chloride, the active ingredient of cheap disinfectants, will control that quite well); and then there's the asbestos, but you can't (I think) blame them for that. Maybe Lego could be commissioned to design the next modular building system?
Ooh, the University of York got a little cameo there. Interestingly although I'd generally regard CLASP as pretty ugly, the UoY buildings kind of work; I think it's the adjacent lake and green spaces that make it ok. Several of the UoY buildings are listed now.
Thanks jago .My local station. Sunningdale is also a clasp station. Not a very inspiring station for such an affluent area, but good for shopping at Waitrose.
There used to be one of these at East Grinstead, a sad example of rationalisation after the loss of lines in 3 directions. It’s been replaced with a marginally better station thank goodness!
The good old scratch and sniff panels at school
Hi Jago, nice. I can only think that Sunbury is the Bauhaus to the end of British rail. Ref to the art school of course.
I was surprised you even did this station, considering I remember u did Kempton Park not long ago
Some of those CLASP buildings actually have a handsome retro charm though. Even if this station is like a soulless bunker.
Great video Jago
The irony of having a vision for the nationalised railways then build a structure which doesn't excite a single soul to use them.