Towards the end, for learnings sake, when you did many repetative serves and asked the question, if they were legal, it would have been nice to know and see which ones were indeed legal, and which ones were not. Earlier you did some slow-mo and told us which was was what. I would have liked to get that same feed-back on the later ones, as well. Like anything, it takes some time and learning, with feedback to tell which is what. True - all serves being drop serves would solve a lot of problems. We have that option now. The early shots and feedback were great!
I tend to agree with your suggestions to change the serving rules, though I'm not an expert player. My main questions would be, what would the most extreme serves look like if we did away with the "extra" restrictions, and would those serves be bad for the game in some way.
A few people called my serve illegal, but I didn't think so. But I've been videoing my games lately, and I think it is indeed illegal. I hit below my wait with upward motion, but I hold my paddle horizontally.
Video is a great tool for self-improvement. Sorry to hear you need to modify your serve, but good job in tracking down the issue and admitting the mistake.
@@chayanne6833 I haven't read the rules in about a year, and they seem to change every year, but the playing area of the paddle must be below your wrist. Sonic you are holding it sideways, part of the paddle playing surface is higher than your wrist. I think they changed the wording. I just checked the current rules and the wording is.. The highest point of the paddle head must not be above the highest part of the wrist (where the wrist joint bends) when the paddle strikes the ball. They show some pictures as examples. This is rule 4.A.7.b in the 2023 USA Pickleball 2023 Official Rulebook which is online for free.
@@chayanne6833 Volley serve...as long as the entire paddle face is below your wrist at the point of contact with the ball there are no restrictions on how to hold the paddle.
I was rooting for that a long time ago and it has been duly changed. The main changes were no more spinning the ball with the hand prior to hitting it and rolling the ball across the paddle with your hand to get spin. Drop serves can be hit in any fashion but must be dropped with no acceleration. Watching the pros I have seen one illegal serve called and it was pretty much a flat serve with a little top spin roughly chest high. This is January 2023.
I realize my comments are coming well after the point when Steve Paranto released this great video which I 100% agree with. And while I am gratified that the current rules now allow the drop serve, IMHO that does not go nearly far enough. My reasoning: the current serving rules still essentially prohibit anyone from hitting an effective back spin serve on the fly (emphasis on the words 'effective' and 'on the fly'). IMHO the only way to hit a serve with sufficient backspin on the fly is either to employ a slicing motion - which requires a downward or flat motion - or to hold the paddle head above the wrist and with a pronounced continental grip. And both of these remain illegal under the current rules. So to me, the current rules are basically telling every pickleballer that if you want to add an effective backspin serve to your arsenal to complement the top spin serve and create an effective element of unpredictability, the only way to do so is to employ a drop serve. But the drop serve remains an uncommon method of serving, and is virtually nonexistent at advanced levels. The end result of all this IMHO is that - unlike in tennis - the serve in pickleball is essentially the least effective tactical weapon. The evidence: when have you ever seen a pro pickleballer employ anything other than a boring topspin on-the-fly serve that EVERY single pro can hit back with near 100% success?
wait wait, the top to bottom underspin slice serve is illegal😬?? I started doing it after seeing someone else at the rec center. I hate his serve! I can't wait to tell him its illegal.
@@NathanBrantley If he is serving on the fly (i.e. not letting the ball bounce first before serving) then there must be an upward arc to to his serving motion at the point of impact. Also the paddle head must be below his wrist which would be very difficult to do with a chop (slice) serve. But frankly most serving motions are not cut and dried to detect whether theyre legal or illegal. I suspect from what you state though that this would be an illegal serve unless you hit it off the bounce. Then anything goes.
Coming from an extensive tennis background I feel more comfortable serving like I'm hitting a forehand. Some, not all, keep complaining about my racquet making contact above my belly button. This is not the case as I've videoed myself on the court and I am hitting a fully legal serve. When they complain I just revert to the drop serve. That shuts them up.
I agree the service angle rules are pretty overboard. The one where the edge of the paddle is above your wrist is to me the dumbest one of all. Does it really give someone a statistical advantage if you have the modern rules versus the original rules?
the hard-o's have taken some of the fun out of the game with these stupid rules. why isn't it enough to just make sure you make contact with the ball below your waist?
what about Rules regarding FEET ex. Does 1 or both feet have to be in contact with the ground upon impact? if NOT as long as the contact is made before the feet touch the inbounds court could you do a Jumping serve provided all of the Arm Swing Parameters are met? Im super athletic and I think I could jump almost to the kitchen line and serve halfway in the air...that would give little time to react but still be legal?
@@jazzdad52 LOL oops...didn't think of that, i just started playing a week ago :P I was thinking if I could jump across the line and be closer to the net i could drive a serve harder into someone...but yah... You're right...that would not work at all.
@@NathanBrantley perfect...thank you i found tthat out the hard way when I tried a running jump serve...it worked great, i hit is so hard and at a downward angle (cuz i have a 36" vert) that it was unreturnable...but then some of the vets told me it's Illegal AF lol
I learned to serve and followed strictly the below naval and below wrist rules I was taught. 9 months later, I realized, wow, I'm kind of tall (my legs being longer than my torso than most people), I can almost hit this like a baseball still within those two rules. Does that still stand or is 2023 different?
as per the USAPA serving rule, "The highest point of the paddle head must not be above the highest part of the wrist (where the wrist joint bends) when it strikes the ball. (See Fig 4-1 & 4-2)". What constitutes the highest point of the paddle? The middle of the head (top most part)of the paddle? I have been called out a foul, if ANY part of my paddle is above the wrist, even if before impact. Your comments would be appreciated.
The paddle "head" (aka paddle face) is the part of the paddle that is not the handle. No part of that paddle head (face) can be above where your wrist bends at the point of ball contact.
Been watching a bunch of pickleball matches on RUclips lately and have yet to see a high service call. They L 👀 K questionable at times to me. Allowing only drop serves would be a great solution so I commend you sir! Only reason to not use is that I’m sure people would be reaching up on their tiptoes as high as possible and the drop might look funny. Suck it up I say and make the drop the rule.
With the new, legal drop serve. It is possible to serve side arm legally. This puts a great side spin on the serve. The upward arc has been eliminated. In senior rec play this can have a profound effect on the game. I see a lot of people experimenting with a “chainsaw” serve trying to gain an advantage on the serve. I believe these new developments are the Result of the proliferation of tournament play and the increase of competition. Whether this is good or bad for the sport is in the perspective of the individual player.
In paddle tennis or now pop tennis (silly name btw), contact at service it's not below the waist, instead it must be below the net. This was changed to take away the advantage of really tall players whose waist is above the net, and they could have a massive killer serve by being able to serve above the net. So, if the ball doesn't have a rainbow path, the service is illegal, which some tall players actually do, because they're too lazy to bend or just want to cheat. As far as pickleball goes service rules go, I haven't played it long enough to see the advantages of these rules. Thus far, I must agree, it's a silly rule.
I understand what your saying but I could tell which ones were legal and illegal after you hit the ball. I could tell by your paddle in your follow through in which way it was pointing which determined it to be legal or not.
Good, but I dont think both feet need to be behind the line when you serve. Only one foot behind the line and touching the court, and the other foot can be hanging out anywhere as long as its not touching the ground. Including over, but not touching, the back line.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe tossing the ball up is legal if you are hitting the ball on the fly. Tossing the ball up on a drop serve is illegal.
According to the USAPA Rules of 2020: 4.A.4. The ball must be struck without bouncing. A person with a physical disability, such as having the use of only one arm, may bounce the ball before making the service motion.
All your model serves are LEGAL. The rule does not state that upward motion of paddle starts at the beginning of the swing. As long as impact is after & above the bottom of the swing, that's legal.
There's no way this guy's belly button is that high. I'm guessing he's just too comfortable serving the way he does hence the higher belly button tape.
I realize this is 2 year old so it's possible that the rules weren't as clear back then, but a couple of your descriptions of the rules were not accurate. 1. The paddle/wrist relationship is the HIGHEST part of the paddle cannot be higher the the HIGHEST point of the wrist. 2. The rules state the ARM must be moving upwards not the paddle itself. Of course that in and of itself opens a whole other can of worms. Once your elbow is in front of your shoulder the upper arm has to be moving upwards. But if one's arm is still extending at the point it's possible for the lower half of the arm to be moving parallel or down. I wish they would just abandon this rule completely as it's impossible to enforce and impact below the waist/belly button (belly button wording has been removed from rules) is enough where the arm motion doesn't really matter.
Can u imagine if tennis took away kick serves and slice serves ? Keep making pickleball soooooo easy you can learn to play well in 10 min instead of 30. Such a lame sport. Noone wants to work hard (years) at a sport anymore to master it. I have played 3 times and smoked some 4.5 players . 😂😂
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Towards the end, for learnings sake, when you did many repetative serves and asked the question, if they were legal, it would have been nice to know and see which ones were indeed legal, and which ones were not. Earlier you did some slow-mo and told us which was was what. I would have liked to get that same feed-back on the later ones, as well. Like anything, it takes some time and learning, with feedback to tell which is what.
True - all serves being drop serves would solve a lot of problems. We have that option now. The early shots and feedback were great!
Thank you. I was called out in my serves today and this helped.
Your drop serve idea is now good since Jan. 2021. Provisional... so far so good.
I tend to agree with your suggestions to change the serving rules, though I'm not an expert player. My main questions would be, what would the most extreme serves look like if we did away with the "extra" restrictions, and would those serves be bad for the game in some way.
Excellent idea of the drop serve , simple and fair!!
A few people called my serve illegal, but I didn't think so. But I've been videoing my games lately, and I think it is indeed illegal. I hit below my wait with upward motion, but I hold my paddle horizontally.
Video is a great tool for self-improvement. Sorry to hear you need to modify your serve, but good job in tracking down the issue and admitting the mistake.
could you post your video link if possible to see what about it is illegal?
Is holding your paddle horizontally illegal??
@@chayanne6833 I haven't read the rules in about a year, and they seem to change every year, but the playing area of the paddle must be below your wrist. Sonic you are holding it sideways, part of the paddle playing surface is higher than your wrist. I think they changed the wording. I just checked the current rules and the wording is.. The highest point of the paddle head must not be above the highest part of the wrist (where the wrist joint bends) when the paddle strikes the ball. They show some pictures as examples. This is rule 4.A.7.b in the 2023 USA Pickleball 2023 Official Rulebook which is online for free.
@@chayanne6833 Volley serve...as long as the entire paddle face is below your wrist at the point of contact with the ball there are no restrictions on how to hold the paddle.
I was rooting for that a long time ago and it has been duly changed. The main changes were no more spinning the ball with the hand prior to hitting it and rolling the ball across the paddle with your hand to get spin. Drop serves can be hit in any fashion but must be dropped with no acceleration. Watching the pros I have seen one illegal serve called and it was pretty much a flat serve with a little top spin roughly chest high. This is January 2023.
Please update information this year too. Very much appreciated that. ❤
I could not agree more!! Use the KISS rule and drop the damn ball and KISS the other rules goodbye!!!
I play with some chesters. I'm happy to have viewed this video.
I use the drop serve to ease my mind.
I also drop from below my knee and contact the ball about ankle high.
Only allowing drop serves would solve all the problems IMO.
Head of Paddle or Point of Contact (Middle of Paddle)? on contact of the serve
I realize my comments are coming well after the point when Steve Paranto released this great video which I 100% agree with. And while I am gratified that the current rules now allow the drop serve, IMHO that does not go nearly far enough. My reasoning: the current serving rules still essentially prohibit anyone from hitting an effective back spin serve on the fly (emphasis on the words 'effective' and 'on the fly'). IMHO the only way to hit a serve with sufficient backspin on the fly is either to employ a slicing motion - which requires a downward or flat motion - or to hold the paddle head above the wrist and with a pronounced continental grip. And both of these remain illegal under the current rules. So to me, the current rules are basically telling every pickleballer that if you want to add an effective backspin serve to your arsenal to complement the top spin serve and create an effective element of unpredictability, the only way to do so is to employ a drop serve. But the drop serve remains an uncommon method of serving, and is virtually nonexistent at advanced levels. The end result of all this IMHO is that - unlike in tennis - the serve in pickleball is essentially the least effective tactical weapon. The evidence: when have you ever seen a pro pickleballer employ anything other than a boring topspin on-the-fly serve that EVERY single pro can hit back with near 100% success?
wait wait, the top to bottom underspin slice serve is illegal😬?? I started doing it after seeing someone else at the rec center. I hate his serve! I can't wait to tell him its illegal.
@@NathanBrantley If he is serving on the fly (i.e. not letting the ball bounce first before serving) then there must be an upward arc to to his serving motion at the point of impact. Also the paddle head must be below his wrist which would be very difficult to do with a chop (slice) serve. But frankly most serving motions are not cut and dried to detect whether theyre legal or illegal. I suspect from what you state though that this would be an illegal serve unless you hit it off the bounce. Then anything goes.
Nice court! How much did it cost and did you build and paint it?
great video !
Coming from an extensive tennis background I feel more comfortable serving like I'm hitting a forehand. Some, not all, keep complaining about my racquet making contact above my belly button. This is not the case as I've videoed myself on the court and I am hitting a fully legal serve. When they complain I just revert to the drop serve. That shuts them up.
Ben Johns and McGruffin have really high contact points and do they get called ?
I agree the service angle rules are pretty overboard. The one where the edge of the paddle is above your wrist is to me the dumbest one of all. Does it really give someone a statistical advantage if you have the modern rules versus the original rules?
the hard-o's have taken some of the fun out of the game with these stupid rules. why isn't it enough to just make sure you make contact with the ball below your waist?
what about Rules regarding FEET ex. Does 1 or both feet have to be in contact with the ground upon impact?
if NOT as long as the contact is made before the feet touch the inbounds court could you do a Jumping serve provided all of the Arm Swing Parameters are met?
Im super athletic and I think I could jump almost to the kitchen line and serve halfway in the air...that would give little time to react but still be legal?
Why step into the court after serve? If you are too far foreward, will you be able to get back to let a deep return bounce?
@@jazzdad52 LOL oops...didn't think of that, i just started playing a week ago :P
I was thinking if I could jump across the line and be closer to the net i could drive a serve harder into someone...but yah...
You're right...that would not work at all.
@@poofykins at least one foot must be touching the ground.
@@NathanBrantley perfect...thank you
i found tthat out the hard way when I tried a running jump serve...it worked great, i hit is so hard and at a downward angle (cuz i have a 36" vert) that it was unreturnable...but then some of the vets told me it's Illegal AF lol
@@poofykins I've been playing for 8 months and just learned two serve rules no one taught me, I'm just passing along. Also this video is outdated.
Now there are even more rules.......no pre spin. That is very hard to see too.
I learned to serve and followed strictly the below naval and below wrist rules I was taught. 9 months later, I realized, wow, I'm kind of tall (my legs being longer than my torso than most people), I can almost hit this like a baseball still within those two rules. Does that still stand or is 2023 different?
Do you neighbors complain about the noise in your backyard pickleball court?
as per the USAPA serving rule, "The highest point of the paddle head must
not be above the highest part of the wrist
(where the wrist joint bends) when it strikes
the ball. (See Fig 4-1 & 4-2)".
What constitutes the highest point of the paddle? The middle of the head (top most part)of the paddle?
I have been called out a foul, if ANY part of my paddle is above the wrist, even if before impact.
Your comments would be appreciated.
Whatever the highest part of the paddle is AT IMPACT.
The rule refers to ANY part of the paddle head.
The paddle "head" (aka paddle face) is the part of the paddle that is not the handle. No part of that paddle head (face) can be above where your wrist bends at the point of ball contact.
The Beatles had no chance to play pickleball, probably busy singing. Anyway thank you very much for sharing your expertise.
Been watching a bunch of pickleball matches on RUclips lately and have yet to see a high service call. They L 👀 K questionable at times to me. Allowing only drop serves would be a great solution so I commend you sir! Only reason to not use is that I’m sure people would be reaching up on their tiptoes as high as possible and the drop might look funny. Suck it up I say and make the drop the rule.
Loved the video but noticed one thing: I wonder how many neighbors have moved to get away from the noise 😂
With the new, legal drop serve. It is possible to serve side arm legally. This puts a great side spin on the serve.
The upward arc has been eliminated. In senior rec play this can have a profound effect on the game.
I see a lot of people experimenting with a “chainsaw” serve trying to gain an advantage on the serve. I believe these new developments are the
Result of the proliferation of tournament play and the increase of competition. Whether this is good or bad for the sport is in the perspective of the individual player.
In paddle tennis or now pop tennis (silly name btw), contact at service it's not below the waist, instead it must be below the net.
This was changed to take away the advantage of really tall players whose waist is above the net, and they could have a massive killer serve by being able to serve above the net. So, if the ball doesn't have a rainbow path, the service is illegal, which some tall players actually do, because they're too lazy to bend or just want to cheat.
As far as pickleball goes service rules go, I haven't played it long enough to see the advantages of these rules. Thus far, I must agree, it's a silly rule.
Good points you made that’s for the tips
Great stain color on the wooden fence!!
I understand what your saying but I could tell which ones were legal and illegal after you hit the ball. I could tell by your paddle in your follow through in which way it was pointing which determined it to be legal or not.
If it’s 1% upward then it’s not a clear upward arch, so it’s probably illegal
This is bull, too many technocrats are causing pickleball to be stupid…
Is this a solution in search of a problem or are illegal serves a big problem?
Yes above the wrist can be used to generate a lot of spin
Good, but I dont think both feet need to be behind the line when you serve. Only one foot behind the line and touching the court, and the other foot can be hanging out anywhere as long as its not touching the ground. Including over, but not touching, the back line.
???
Correct ✅
I think the point is - who cares. If it looks legal and the person isn’t gaining an unfair advantage just play it.
Are you allowed to toss the ball up like that before you hit it ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe tossing the ball up is legal if you are hitting the ball on the fly. Tossing the ball up on a drop serve is illegal.
No, just a drop from as high as you want with no downward push.
I agree
under the current rules are you allowed to bounce the ball. Or if you don’t swing, The ball bounces is that a fault
According to the USAPA Rules of 2020:
4.A.4. The ball must be struck without bouncing. A person with a physical disability, such as having the use of only one arm, may bounce the ball before making the service motion.
Very good idea
Very good! 👍🏻
I stopped at here's why... doesn't matter, but I agree!
Excellent
All your model serves are LEGAL. The rule does not state that upward motion of paddle starts at the beginning of the swing. As long as impact is after & above the bottom of the swing, that's legal.
At CONTACT with the ball. the paddle must be on an upward path. Thowing the paddle up after the ball was hit it too late.
One Word... Drop Serve
Two words but I agree.
@@ricdowns9850 then drop-serve. 😅
There's no way this guy's belly button is that high. I'm guessing he's just too comfortable serving the way he does hence the higher belly button tape.
Man some stupid rules, is my backhand serve illegal! Do they want people go play more or not lol
A guy I played against used a drop-serve backhand. It was pretty good!
A 3 yr old video that doesn't incorporate newer 2023 rules should be deleted
Yeah I'm having so much difficult finding a 2023 serving rules video.
You threw all 3 balls up, I thought that was illeagle?
If my name is Tyson McGuffin, then no. 😂
3 year old video and still ridiculously obscure serving rules causing problems. Come on Pickleball sanctioning bodies... Get it together!!!!
I realize this is 2 year old so it's possible that the rules weren't as clear back then, but a couple of your descriptions of the rules were not accurate.
1. The paddle/wrist relationship is the HIGHEST part of the paddle cannot be higher the the HIGHEST point of the wrist.
2. The rules state the ARM must be moving upwards not the paddle itself. Of course that in and of itself opens a whole other can of worms. Once your elbow is in front of your shoulder the upper arm has to be moving upwards. But if one's arm is still extending at the point it's possible for the lower half of the arm to be moving parallel or down. I wish they would just abandon this rule completely as it's impossible to enforce and impact below the waist/belly button (belly button wording has been removed from rules) is enough where the arm motion doesn't really matter.
“Back then”? I’ve been playing since 2006 and the rules regarding serves was the same.
Boring AF these rules are. We should be able to put spin and such in serves
Getting too silly now, just play..
Can u imagine if tennis took away kick serves and slice serves ? Keep making pickleball soooooo easy you can learn to play well in 10 min instead of 30. Such a lame sport. Noone wants to work hard (years) at a sport anymore to master it. I have played 3 times and smoked some 4.5 players . 😂😂