Professional Luthier Reacts: Taylor Guitar Factory Tour
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- Опубликовано: 24 сен 2021
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Chris and Matt sit down and watch a tour of Taylor Guitars' American factory.
Link to the original video: • What's Inside the Tayl...
For more information on Chris and his guitars, go to:
www.DriftwoodGuitars.com 
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I'm loving these videos! I don't know much about how guitars are made so I really appreciate your commentary on what is normal vs unique. In addition, you guys are funny and work well together.
Great content! I appreciate the interesting, thoughtful, and informed commentary. I look forward to another video on the Mexico factory.
I love your channel, the content is always fun and interesting, Thanks!
On the scarf joint, the joint is stronger when compared to a one piece neck and the consideration of grain runout. Taylor switched to the three piece necks with the NT neck development. Initially they used a finger joint and when they first made the switch they did a series of videos going over the change. Bob Taylor, on video broke headstocks and the finger joint necks took more pressure. The scarf joint came about because they look better. It’s a cool 20 year old video if you can find it. Also, Andy isn’t often building on the factory floor, but has his own workshop where he is often making sawdust.
What kind of headstock joint do Driftwood guitars use then? He said they don't use it anymore. So they are making a one piece neck? Won't that lead to more headstock breaks like with Gibsons?
@@EbonyPope You overcome that by doing a book matched laminate with a accent strip down the center of the neck all the way through the head stock when you lay up the neck blank (yes that technically makes it a three piece neck however also prevents the neck from developing a twist) plus keeping the extra material for the hand stop/surface fillet below the nut adds strength to compensate for the hollowing out of the neck at the anchor point and slot for the truss rod that goes past the nut which some route out so deep it almost penetrates through the back of the neck.
Often you'll find along with a break near the headstock, damaged/bent tuning keys from dropping the instrument mostly from leaning it against something or at times from really poor placement of the strap button on the heel of the neck so if the instrument leans forward slightly the strap slips easily slips off the button sending the instrument crashing, head stock first, down to the floor.
Eliminating the hand stop or surface fillet under the nut creates weakness on the necks of guitars, mandolins, violins, etc, etc (its not only guitars) giving you a neck more likely to break from a minor drop or bump.
Scarfing can reinforce a weak neck design to a degree but is no substitute for doing a proper layup and having a well placed surface fillet bridging the neck and head stock. If your playing strictly acoustic you'll also enjoy the additional sustain the small bit of additional mass under the nut can give you.
Best!
@EbonyPope he does one piece necks but with a headstock veneer and a backstrap wich makes the headstock a lot stronger by having a sandwich of straight grain on the weak points
Chris and Matt, thanks for the review. Enjoyed your views on guitar making.
My new favorite channel! Love your style and generosity with knowledge. Cheers from Sweden. Tried to slot my Taylor Academy, worked wonders. Didn't by the tool though, made my own from an old metal saw.
That was fun! Thanks. I remember back in the 90s, Taylor was starting to put Venetian cut-a-ways on most guitars and every single one of them had a flat spot on the binding of the tight curve. Maybe that inspired their new and different way of doing it.
Enjoyed the video. I have been to the factory, pre V class, and I tried a dozen US made Taylor’s just yesterday, all V braced. Every one of the 12 showed no visible flaws and were perfectly set up (for me anyway) and intonated. I do agree there is little difference , at least that I could discern , in sound as the price rises , except for the ornamentation and the sound nuances between the back and sides.At the factory tour, we saw the bracing process, no secrets. The braces themselves were cut a night by a special crew due to safety reasons. What I gathered from watching the attachment process to the top that no adjustments were made per top to optimize the sound. I also thought ,from the 12 I tried , that the urban ash back and sides offered a great compromise between sound and price. Finally, I this Taylor has mastered the marketing process for their product. Anxious to see your take on the V brace concept. You might reference that back to the Mark series guitars Gibson tried and failed with in the 1970 s.
The main difference between the upper and lower models is the quality of the woods used. The higher the series. The better the wood.
I love how supportive your assistant dude is. Great vibes. Good video.
Really like your channel. Keep Crushing It!
I am a hobby luthier in Hawaii and build ukuleles. Until about 20 years ago we had one factory making ukuleles and they became synonymous with what a ukulele “was”. So, I get it. But to be fair, if we are just talking about scarf joints and one piece necks I think these things could be framed in more productive ways.
For me, I look at this from the perspective of neck design and identifying the specific problem the luthier is trying to solve for. Is grain orientation at the headstock a problem for the luthier to consider? I think Gibson has provided enough examples to say that short grain orientation at the headstock is undesirable if trying to prevent neck breakage due to an accidental fall. One piece necks create short grain at the headstock, whereas scarf joints create long grain at the headstock. For this specific problem, scarf joints are a better solution than one piece necks. We just need to be clear on what specific problem we are trying to solve for.
Recently found your channel and enjoy the content. Heard you mention in other videos that you compliance map and glue your tops on before your backs so you can voice your instruments. In terms of build philosophy are you a proponent of a “stiff back” or a “resonant” back? Just curious.
I would be interested to see a reaction video to Taylor Guitar’s “History of Guitar Neck Construction: Three-piece Neck - Talk About Taylor”. Mahalo for the content!
I loved this video, guys. It was very balanced and you weren't overly judgemental and in the end- it's an acoustic guitar built for a certain player, in some part of the world. Personally, I love Taylor and I own two. They aren't always the guitar that inspires me 100% of the time, but everytime I pick one up, they always impress and I've yet to regret buying one. They make me feel like a better player than I actually am and somehow like any Ford, they do most things that people want at a not outrageous price (unless it's a builder's edition lol). Also the finishing is really impressive in my opinion. Also, I appreciate the transparency around the build process that isn't always apparent with other 'big name' factory brands. The only other thing I would add is that one time Bob Taylor was literally you guys, in that room, building one (or several) guitars at a time until he found a way to upscale the business to meet demand. That to me is something to be applauded, particularly in the repurposement of old equipment to carry out new tasks. At the same time, after watching this I really got me a hankerin for a handbuilt Driftwood Guitar 😬
Just started the video, but I appreciate the attempt on trying new content ideas! Keep it up, I’m sure the video will be great
Appreciate the input and content you’ve been churning out. Definitely a drfitwood fan now too
I can't believe I watched the whole thing, good video guys!
Heck yeah! Glad you hung in there.
Thanks for doing this video! So glad you made a detailed walk-through that highlights specifically the important distinctions between artesian custom made vs. factory mass production. Both can produce excellent quality and sound, but they are very different. Taylor makes a great trustworthy and repeatable mass produced guitar at a much lower price point. A custom guitar from a skilled and experienced luthier is an intimate process that allows two artist (luthier and the player) to enjoin into a project to produce a very personal, and highly optimized result. The price point is also necessarily much higher at this level of craftsmanship.
Very well put.
Cool video, I enjoyed the commentary. The amount of 'strength' gained from a scarf joint is going to be determined by the angle of the headstock. The steeper the headstock angle on a one piece, the shorter the grain running between the faces becomes- and the weakness that comes with it. I like how your acoustic guitars use a slotted headstock to gain greater break angle without increasing the headstock angle.
edit: Also of interest was that the Taylor 'scarf' joints appeared to have joining surfaces that were curved, rather than flat. Mine's not like that.
Morning man, love the videos
Hi guys. I bought a beautiful K24ce Builder's Edition and I'm not sure I agree with your critique about Builder's Editions being built the same as the cheaper lines. The purfling on this guitar is filled with a gorgeous Paua Abalone (very rare, only found in New Zealand) both on top and back as is the rosette, and yes, there isn't an added binding, but all the Koa edges (as you said, they're calling the edges a binding) are rounded, super smooth, yet hard and seem adequately strong. The beveled armrest and cutaway make this the most comfortable guitar I've ever played and I've been playing since the 1960's, and it is super light. The 21:1 Gold Gotoh tuners are superb as well, and the flamed Koa back and sides are IMHO unmatched in looks and intonation. I have owned Martins, Guilds, Gibsons (two 200SJ's, one is a Pre War) and I have to say that this Koa Builder's Edition is really one of the best guitars I've owned. I bought it new for $5,300 and it's now selling for $6,300 at Sweetwater, and here in Japan they are selling for $8,000 new! I didn't think of it then, but is has become an investment. Cheers.
great vid guys!
Hey Chris and Matt, just a FYI - In order to rewind or fast forward; click the letter j for rewind , l (small L) to jump forward and k is for play or pause . Makes starting and stopping much easier. BTW back and forward are by 10 seconds per click.
Really insightful, thanks for doing this! I'd love to see you react to other manufacturer's factory tour, especially Eastman's.
this was/is a much better Taylor factory tour in my mind.. Regardless, love what you guys are doing on your channel.
That was interesting! One of my favorite pastimes is finding factory tour videos and looking for cool ideas, and I do a lot of stop action also.. You might check out Maton, Ovation, Godin, and Takamine. Its kind of fun to hear the spin they put on something, and the next factory doesn't do it and they have opposite spin. My intuition as an engineer tells me that the scarf joint is stronger because of the direction of the grain in the peg head. But, having said that, I prefer the one piece also. And the scraps can be used, so I don't see that much gained in the way of saving waste. Good job!
Scarf joints are stronger than one piece necks, just look at Gibson with headstock breaks
I personally would prefer a scarf joint over a single piece of wood for the neck. The glue joint will always always be stronger than the wood itself. The way that a single piece of wood has the fibers oriented concerning the angle of the head stock, does make it more fragile. And this particular subject, is always an incredibly contested one.
Bob Taylor focused on sustainable wood sourcing and functional execution in a reliable consistent product from a sound standpoint..
The problem with Gibson is the 17 degree headstock angle, not that it’s a one piece neck.
I agree with this as well. I'd never build a one piece neck without lamination
I agree with that it saves timber, especially in a factory situation, but I’ve also had the headstock snap of on one of my acoustics with a one piece neck. Laminating the headstock does help. I tend to make Fender style necks, or multi-laminate with a headstock angle
Thanks guys, I think this is really interesting territory for discussion. I can see both sides. A guitar hand crafted by a gifted luthier is where we all want to go isn't it? Yet there is genuine inspiration still to be had with a mass produced instrument if its made by people who care. And I believe that Bob and Andy do care. Would anyone argue that a mass produced 1960s Ford Mustang is not a thing of inspiration and beauty? As a foot note, the GS Mini is a magical, little guitar, all the planets aligned when Bob came up with that.
I own a few Taylor’s and the GS Mini Koa is a phenom all of its own. Sounds bigger, rounder and clearer than much larger guitars. 100%.
a parlour guitar is a lot better than a GS mini and not much bigger.
Taylor has changed a lot over the years. I started selling them in 1994 and then got out of the retail side in '02 once i figured out how to make a living playing guitars instead of selling them. The shop I worked in had 2 very skilled luthiers who are now making high end hand made flat tops and gypsy jazz style guitars so every time Taylor changed a process we would dissect them and try to figure out if the change made a better guitar or made the process cheaper.
I've seen a lot of handmade guitars over the years that would've been much better off had they been able to use machines like the ones in this video. Gibson was still doing a ton of stuff by hand at they time and their stuff was all kinds of spotty. We'd order 7 guitars and if we were lucky 3 would be good one would be great and 3 got sent back because they just weren't consistent at all. We very rarely had a bad sounding Taylor and we sold a ton of them. We sold more Martins and Taylors than anybody in the state most years so we saw a lot of instruments.
A few years back a gentleman in California made me a neck through electric assembled like the original BC Rich guitars from the 70's. Most of the work was done with knives that he made, and he would make the curves of the blades depending on what the final body shape would be. When it came time to shape the neck he had me sit next to him and he'd have me feel it and tell him what I did or didn't like and he'd take it back and start carving again. It was a really cool experience, and it does feel special, but it was extremely labor intensive and slow and at the end of the day I can play just as well on my Taylor's CNC'd neck. Whether or not handmade is better depends largely on who's on the other end of the hand. 😄
I was gifted my Taylor guitar and could have chosen from several at the local GC, and I chose the 214ce they had over guitars costing much more. I loved the sound and feel of it, and I am a sucker for spruce and rosewood. I also liked the smaller nut width at the time but wish I had the wider nut now. 10 years later and I still have that guitar and play it all the time.
Very interesting guys. Love to hear the v class bracing thoughts?!. Never knew that about the builders edition binding.
love the factory tours and guitar reviews. You guys are doing us musicians a huge service.
I went to that factory forever ago. back when their neck carve process was so innovative
Thanks Chris, very informative video.
Where and how did you learn all that you know about lutherie?
Check the Godin acoustic plant video, the automation process is better explained. The buffing machine, for example, has sensors that can recognize the positions of the guitar and the buffing wheel, it is not just a simple CNC, it has a closed loop control system.
A stacked heal is definitely not as strong as solid wood, but it seems to me that a scarf joint for the neck/headstock is actually incredibly strong. There is a good amount of gluing surface there. And I have spoken to some builders who believe that it actually makes a more rigid neck in that area, which in some instances positively impacts tone. Now good/bad tone is subjective obviously, but I have never had in issue tonally, or otherwise with a scarf jointed headstock. What do you all think?
As a carpenter I find a professionally done scarf joint is a thing of beauty.
This video made me appreciate Taylor more , they look, play and sound great for factory guitars, couple of thousand dollars you get a guitar that look and play like 15k handmade instrument
at 28:34, the bench behind the guy with short hair is the bench I work at. the amount of time and effort that goes into our finish department being boiled down to basically "yeah it gets finished and painted" from our own company bothers me. even during the in-person factory tours, they completely skip the finish department and the necks go from the inlays barely being laid in and then all of a sudden its being paired to a body and being strung up.
also- to you two specifically, those are 600 series builders edition guitars you just talked about with the big mahogany block and no binding, thats unique to the builders edition models which also have a cutaway. those are some of the few guitars that dont get bound, nearly all, even the 300's, get bound. it is plastic though until you get to the 500's. the only necks without binding are the AD series guitars and custom orders which ask for no binding. its the same plastic-until-500-series with that too, excluding various limited edition models.
also, the necks and bodies are hand painted, as of right now. theres a spray cell with a few painters who do it. maybe thats only since ive been hired, because im yet to see a non-hand-painted guitar.
it is hard to not get delamination, thats a huge struggle for the newer guys.
it does also bug me that we dont use nitro, I mean, our 300 series guitars start over $2000 and get poly, lame. but with how everything is set up, I think the closest we could get is similar to fenders road worn series, where its nitro over poly. if we went full nitro, it would cost the company a lot and production would have to be brought to a halt for a long time.
and also, the guitar you mentioned with a "different neck joint" was a 400 series, and no, they have the same joint, it just hadn't gotten that section of the body cut out get to get fit for a neck. it gets CNC'd out and a neck gets paired to it, strung up, and there you go. this video (not you guys, the video from Taylor) seems to miss a ton of key points. in addition, I get to be the lucky guy who cleans the buffing room nightly. all necks (the ones that get buffed) are hand buffed, and gets compound all over the floor. I think we dont have a robot for it because there are so many edges and intricacies to the necks that its likely that the robot would chew straight through the finish and to the wood if there was any anomaly in the wood or finish from the finisher. its much easier to automate buffing a body as it is mostly flat.
Man I hate that it got glazed over as well. Matt and I are both fully aware that the largest part of the entire guitar build is often the finish work. Maybe we can do a video on just how much goes into the finish work at your facility!
hey guys. I really love all your videos. I'm not a acoustic guitar builder but player and they give me a deeper understanding of the instrument I love. One thing though I was wondering if you could expand on in any future video: I feel like you're somehow bashing on the three "big ones" for not doing the same precision job as you, and for rushing production for the sake of profit. I'm sure some argument is to be made there. but in the end shouldn't we also be grateful to get a quality instrument (maybe not to your build's standards) for the 3k mark. I mean I'm sure you're building the superior guitar by far. But isn't that why your instrument will cost at least 4 times 700 series "high end" taylor or twice an Martin OM42? Long story short, I think, with all due respect, you should factor in price/quality rapport a little more. In a perfect world we could all afford highest quality, and I wish I could too and I'm not a Taylor/Martin/Gibson fanboy by any means, but please know that we can't all afford your 15k guitar even if we wanted to(and I really really do). Please stop complaining about the fact that others cut corners on bracings and such when their prices are some thousand dollars below yours. It makes me and my guitars feel small for no good reason. stay positive.
best
Parker
Vçc
I mostly agree but for 3k they could at least make tighter joints concerning the bracing. Of course the fit and finish won't be in the level of Driftwood guitars but at least the way that it's but together would be top notch for any guitar above 1000 dollars.
Thanks Guys - always enjoy your comments and the education. I would like to see a review of Furch Guitars.
I've visited many of the Godin Guitars factories. They also have been buffing with robots for many years. I remember visiting the Richmond factory that was still in the process of moving things from other locations and they had in an empty room with about 12 or 13 robots that, from what I remember, a closed-down GM Camaro factory in Ontario, and they were lined up against a wall. Reminded me of a Starwars scene with all of the soldiers ( I don't know what they were called) lined up ready to be activated. Many instruments were destroyed in the programming and getting everything right for all of the different models.
I actually think Godin was doing this before Taylor.....but Robert is not an American so until recently they didn't know he existed.....I believe many of them still don't know where Canada is lol!
The NT neck design is one of the reasons I have a Taylor. Of all the production guitars, Taylor is the best playing guitar out of the box. They seldom need a setup. Neck resets are 20 minute jobs. They sound good and play good. I have a GT urban ash, AD22e and a GS mini.
Think about grain run-out when it reaches the head stock of the neck. With all the super great epoxies available, I believe a scarf joint is stronger. I still love your videos.Thank you Tim
As a comparison, check out the You tube video tour of the Yairi guitar"factory" in Japan. The complete lack of CNC and automated processes is a stark contrast. I own a 1990 Yairi DY-77 and it plays beautifully, and I'll never sell it. I also own a limited edition 2009 Taylor 414 in Tasmanian Blackwood w/ Curly Maple binding, and I absolutly love that guitar too.
i can definitely see your points, thats why its just not right comparing handmade builders to big companies like this.... totally different in terms of the craftsmanship.. big respect to you brother for doing this and informing Acoustic Geeks like me really good to know about this =) all the best all the way from the Philippines
Quick tip, if you want to rewind or fast forward in 10 sec interval, hit the letter "J" for rewind and "K" for fast forward on your keyboard. "F" is for full screen, "K" is for play/pause (spacebar works too).
I believe the 400, 700, 800 and 900 series come standard spruce/rosewood. the apppointments and the choice of wood I think is all that changes
Matt- "The people that make the machines inside factories, It's an artform."
Such a hugely inciteful statement.
My late father-in-law was one of those guys. Worked for Borg Warner. He told me that the most fun part of his job was to go back to the (usually young) design engineer and ask, "So how do you propose we make this part?"... "Huh, I dunno"
I suppose he taught a lot of engineers to think in terms of the manufacturing process.
On a more modern spin, I have a buddy sitting at his kitchen table, designing tooling to make satellite parts on his laptop... Keep it up guys.
I is worth the time to take the Taylor factory tour if you are ever in San Diego!
I have a 1996 USA made Taylor 514C . Sounds so good
I wrote all the CNC programs for the body purfling and it’s not just faster but better! Work smart not hard! Great Video guys, let me know if you have any questions I’ve been at Taylor for 18 years
Dude! That’s so cool.
Whoa!! Serious kudos to you, sir. If we ever have the chance of meeting you in real life, I’d love to shake your hand and buy you a beer!
@@DriftwoodMatt I would take a handshake and a beer my friend. Take from me that Taylor shouldn't just be known for our amazing guitars but also the work environment. This was suppose to be a temporary job out of high school but 18 years later I still love coming to work. If you are ever in our area please reach out and maybe I can show you around the Factory..
@@DriftwoodGuitars it is and hope to see you around the campus one day. You could come see how Andy and Bob are here everyday still walking the halls. Andy is definitely on the production floor more than anybody realizes. I get to work with him daily...
Absolutely! And same goes for you if you find yourself around the panhandle of Florida, come swing by our shop!
Peavey and Fender were using CNC for building electric guitars. Peavey had a system for pressing all the frets on a neck in one pass.
The Casino guys are great.
Regarding their builder's editions, it is true that they "found a way" to cut a lot of corners that take time by not adding binding, which, apart from it being decorative, what would you say the main function of binding is? Protection of the edges, right? Well... In the BE's they went with a simplistic look which is also awesome and unique in it's own way for some, me included. Not cooler than with binding, just another very cool look... The paint to cover up the edge is part of the aesthetics/looks as you can see when comparing to the academy series. You can still see that the wood on both sides of the purfling is the top (I like that detail visually), and where they cover with paint is on the actual sides. This is very well done in the finish department and I give them credit for the idea/execution. And then in terms of protection, it is no coincidence that they round the edges on these guitars to avoid dings, etc... Also, their finish is very tough...
The builders editions all have binding. It's the new cheaper guitars that don't. The builders editions have all the bells and whistles, just so you know.
Controversial opinion: binding is for covering up potentially ugly joints, and a degree of bump protection? It's a decorative solution to cover up a manufacturing/design problem.
If Taylor have found a more cost effective way to decorate the joint and cover up the problem, good on them. For sure it takes less time and effort. The customer can decide which decorative bodge they prefer and at what price.
I've watched Trogly react instinctively and negatively to any Gibson model that doesn't have binding. Even Custom Shop Crimson Division builds, allegedly the best of the best, criticised for not having binding. If their crimson team have meticulously crafted the joints so they don't need bodge tape cover ups, shouldn't that be a sign of ultimate craftsmanship? To some degree there seems to be an element of conservative traditionalism in expectations of what "a quality guitar" should look like. It shouldn't be the only permitted cover-up mechanism, or viewed as an indicator of higher quality. Its just an indicator of way more labour intensive approaches to covering up a problem area.
@@gerald5175 Hey. You sound very certain. I have a builders edition and I am very certain it doesn't have binding. Do you have one too? Maybe you do... Hey, even better, maybe you work for Taylor? This being said, I feel strongly about my reasons I stated on my original comment of why it doesn't have or need binding.
@@PaulCooksStuff Hey Paul... Not sure if you're saying your opinion is controversial, but interesting details on other builders regarding the binding subject. Thanks. I think binding's main purpose is to protect the edges, due to spruce or cedar (main top woods) are soft wood where on a top would be very susceptible to dents also because of the grain direction in different parts of the edges. You can find plenty of guitars with no binding that have a clean look. With the BE though, the paint on the edges on the sides cover up the seam between the top and the sides for a cleaner look. Strategically though, you can still see when looking carefully that the edges, from the top, is still the top as opposed to binding. Their solution to avoid the dents was to round up the edges, which they also say it's to add comfort, which it does to a small degree... Sorry for basically repeating my whole message!! haha...
@@PaulCooksStuff Are you actually saying the only reason to have binding is to cover up bad workmanship? I think all the class A handmade builders would beg to differ with you. Lol...
Interesting - I'll never afford a Driftwood guitar, but I have enormous respect for Chris's skills and ethos. His and Matt's discussions about Taylor guitars was illuminating, honest and equally respectful, even where they had either niggles or criticisms. These were always balanced by comparing the demands and limitations of hand-luthiery against those of factory-made guitars. Especially noticeable how generous Chris and Matt were when praising Bob Taylor's innovations.
An all-round excellent upload.
Really hope they do a video about V versus X bracings.
Great great videos. Unique!
Scarf joint that is glues from the bottom is by far stronger than a solid cut neck. However a laminated neck is even better than a scarf joint.
BIG UPS CASINO GUITARS, there in north carolina, same as me...good ole boys....
Great content, as always! Especially that you genuinely did NOT watch the video before shooting puts you above like 99% of reaction videos on RUclips altogether!
Your 3000 year old Guitars are the Bees Knees but my Lyrachord Ovation sounds like nothing i have ever heard. Have you ever thought of using some kind of composite Chris? Great stuff by the way. You and Matt are making great content.
I know that Taylor has a patent on the v class bracing system, but it would be interesting to see one of your builds with hand carved braces in the v formation to hear the difference. Looking forward to your video talking about it. I love my 914ce LTD but I'm a mostly electric player and am still working on my acoustic technique.
A Dutch luthier published his V brace system on a forum in the Netherlands over a year before Taylor claimed they invented it. They did not invent V Bracing
Looking forward to a video about the V bracing. Maybe another reaction to an interview with Andy Powers about how he came up with the design... Are there much surfing spots in your part of Florida?
Yes, factory building is different if you believe "perfect is the enemy of great." (Which I do) Here is what I'll say about buying a Taylor. They all feel and sound great. I can go anywhere in any Shop, pick up a Taylor and it will play great. They all sound like others in their respective model/class. Pure Consistency. I can send someone out to buy a Taylor and know it's a solid guitar. That's amazing for a factory-produced guitar. Contrast that to a Gibson or Martin; where each plays and sounds unique, and not always in a positive way. I probably played 100+ Martin D-28s before I found one that I liked. I currently own 3 different Taylors and 1-Martin. My old Cedar-topped Taylor 714CE Cedar is my favorite guitar for live gigs. My Taylor T-5 is great for traveling and where one guitar is all I wish to carry. My Martin is my fav partner when It's just me on stage. I've spent under 15K USD on all 4 combined. That's where their factory magic shines.
Chris some older guy from England built an acoustic guitar for the great guitar build off 2021 & He did a Taylor type Bolt-on neck by hand with a router & jigs he made. It was Amazing**🎸🇺🇸🎹🎼👨🏻🦯👨🏻🦯
First time viewing. I really like it. You mentioned an Academy 12 guitar. Are they around? many thx
First, you guys ROCK! I have been doing a deep dive on both Martin (in fact just visited their plant this week) and Taylor and I find your videos informative (you're a major part of that "deep dive") and very objective...as long as your hair doesn't catch on fire at the occasional blasphemy commited by production companies. But I do have a question - at one point you made the statement "...I KNOW UV finishes are not as good as nitro cellulous..." and I would really like to hear more about that. Is there another video of yours that focuses on that?
I'm looking forward to your video on the V-bracing. It's certainly controversial, and as everything related to sound, very subjective.
@@Felipe_de_Oliveira Who asked?
@@Felipe_de_Oliveira 🤦 That somehow affects the sound of the guitar?
Is tone politics the new tone wood? 🤣
@@Felipe_de_Oliveira I obviously wasn't referring to your comments about plastics....
@@Felipe_de_Oliveira 😂 👍
@@Felipe_de_Oliveira yikes to your gross comment on a guitar thread.
I once owned a 6 string ($5,500) Elrick bass that had a....SCARF JOINT! Why? so the dang headstock wouldn't snap off with all that tension. Scarf joints are stronger. You guys are young and still learning though.
As a purist when it comes to aesthetics, I prefer the look of a 1 piece neck. I don't know how else to prove which one is stronger compared to a glued headstock without a proper test with many 1 piece vs 2 piece neck/headstock. Same goes for sound in relation to vibration of neck/headstock. It is interesting to point out that Taylor's joint is not flat but wavy. This must have a purpose. Perhaps adding a tiny bit of surface area to the glue joint to make it even stronger? Not making the edges of the pieces of wood so thin with such acute angles for stronger individual pieces? On the other hand, would it be fair to point out that if the grain is running parallel to the neck, then it would not run parallel to the headstock in a 1 piece, making the headstock (more so a slotted one) itself less strong and possibly susceptible to breakage if it drops?
If you try to clamp a scarf jointed headstock just from the front and back it will skate apart forward due to the angle. The wave stops that from happening, as well as probably improving the strength of the joint slightly. A scarf joint with no short grain running thru the headstock is absolutely stonger than a one piece neck. But if the scarf is done higher up on the headstock the short grain persists, so it isnt stronger
Oh I also was the one who designed all the tooling and programmed all for the BE cutaway/heel block! I have the best job in the world
Peavey was the first CNC made guitars back in the 70's.
Would be real interesting if you do this for the Gibson Bozeman factory!
As far as I have seen most high end luthiers use scarf joints. Somogyi, Greenfield, Kostal etc
Taylor was not the first to use CNC machines in the guitar industry Dave Schechter started the CNC revolution He contacted Fadal to alter their Metal CNC Machines for use in the guitar world. Tom Anderson was a shop manager at Schecter and ran the Fadal. After Schecter was bought by a Texas millionaire, Tom started Anderson Guitaworsk. He is the gutaughtTaught Taylor the ins and out so using CN. Tpurchasedbought a couple of Fadal. Tom also helped Jerry Jones (Jerry Jones Guitars in Nashville TN) with his Fadal.
This is all correct. Taylor was the first acoustic builder to use it, but BT did see the Fadal at Anderson and immediately ordered one.
If Im not mistaken, Bob Taylor used to use finger scarf joint, than changed it to todays simpler variant, because people hated it so much. Its not always what is better, more about what sells better or is cheaper to make ;)
Darn it. I was ready for the V discussion.
If you look at the scarf it’s not a normal joint. It has a wave to it. I can see how that would not only be strong it would correct the slipping you spoke about when being clamped.
100%
Hey, what do you think about the Taylor 214ce-K Acoustic-Electric?
I believe scarf joints are stronger, if you cut out of one blanket would the wood grain is shorter at the headstock. That’s why Gibson necks are prone to be snapped at the headstock. Just my thought
You guys are single handedly changing big guitar company QA forever!! This is a good thing for guitar nuts like me and I promise the big boys are watching these videos. Great videos and love how you get under the hood. Awesome work gentlemen!!
Bob patented that neck joint in 1999. Tacoma was doing it in 1997. Is there much difference in the two? Or did Bob patent it before Tacoma?
There are quite a few companies that are suing a scarf joint. As far as I'm concerned if done proper it's stronger than a one piece neck as is a stacked heel. If I recall Godin was the first to do this. Yes it saves wood yet it's main issue for me is the end result is stronger. Point is how the Epiphone J series broke when dropped and all the other brands you tested did not.
I would love to see you guys do a reaction video for a Takamine ( Japan ) factory tour.
One small point of clarification on CNC in a guitar Mfg. environment was actually started under Peavey in the 80’s. Any early T-40 or T-60 are 100% CNC created.. first company to ever try it. Granted they are a tad crude.. they survived even today and still play and sound well.
I don't think it's cheaper to use a scarf joint. It takes longer to prepare the two surfaces for a perfect joint, and labor time is more expensive than materials, so I don't think they're doing it for the cost effectiveness. I think it does make a stronger neck, unless the neck blank is laminated.
From Taylor they do the 3 piece necks to conserve wood. I don't think they believe it actually makes them stronger. I could be wrong though. I've gigged a 110e for years now and just recently bought a Taylor 324ce and the 324ce is just amazing. Great guitars they make and your point about the paying more for the appointments I agree. That's why I bought the 324ce. It's a gorgeous satin finished mahogany top with shaded edge burst and blacked out and stripped down yet looks like a million bucks and paid 2200 bucks. Not 6000 but sounds like it's 6 grand
@@R.L.Humpert nice man. Congrats on the guitar and no I wouldn't be concerned about taylor because of this video. For the amount of guitars Taylor makes a day and given their known quality thats pretty impressive. My 2 taylors are great and if you love your 324 as much as I love mine there's nothing to worry about. The guitar in this video is no where in the same ball park as a 300 series so they had to cut corners to keep the cost way down.
@@R.L.Humpert gladi could help bro. I had a few minor issues with my 324ce the first few gigs I played with it but now its perfect. Acoustic guitars need time to adjust and settle in but the 324ce is a well built guitar. I'd be sad if they cut one of them apart lol. I use elixirs on mine. They're expensive as shit but I can get about 4 gigs on a set before I change them. I could probably get 5 and still sound good to be honest. I've thought about trying other coated brands to see which I prefer but I went from Erie ball to the elixirs and damn. What a difference
Isn't binding to protect the instrument? My rosewood guitar is bound in maple, Isn't the maple hard enough to not require binding?
Been curious to the process certain guitars have hidden fret ends/slots without using binding. My ‘13 J-45 Standard has completely hidden slots, yet no apparent binding or CA/Dust fill. Curious! Would love to hear you guys discuss that at some point. Great channel!
CNC cuts the fret slots / pockets. They aren’t cut all the way through giving the same effect as binding on the fret board. That way when the frets are installed the fret slots don’t show on the edges. This saves having to fill the ends of the fret slots and looks a lot neater. Martin has done the same thing on their unbound fret boards for several years.
I played several Taylor’s today at guitar center, and I’ve had lots of them over the years , that were really good ,but I was not impressed with any today, all needed a setup bad ,nut slots etc. and they felt really heavy to me, the best one I played was the was the 699 academy series D.
I have never had a neck separate of any design. My hunch is that the mean and standard deviation of problems are so few it is well within the standard margin of error.
If you guys want to see the spraying Robots and buffing robots go to the Furch guitar factory tour, they show it really well.
I am not satisfied with my Gibson G45 Studio, and I'm looking for something that sounds better for less money. You mentioned that the Academy 12 sounds as good as a much more expensive Taylor, being built from the same woods, namely rosewood body and sitka spruce top. I watched the Taylor Tecate Mex tour, and it now has a "sapele/poplar' laminate body. Will this guitar sound like the 12 you chopped in half, or is there a year or model number of the sweet one you talked about?
I was sitting in my back yard trying to come up with a better way of making my guitar; I knew there must be something better than the "V" bracing I had. Then it came to me!!!! I think I should try an "X"! Yes! Eurika!!! I tried to paste a photo of two jet contrails crossing. So you have to imagine that part. There is a video of Andy at Taylor explaining how he thought of the "V".
100% haha
Cool. I've been in lots of factories around the world and efficiency is king. Far more effort goes into developing the manufacturing process than developing the products. All very cool and necessary but a very different animal than hand craftsmanship.
Absolutely. Having someone who at their lowest starts at 7550 because they make handcrafted works of art talk down a factory process seems like it’s own marketing gimmick on itself to me. I paid not a lot for my AD17e and I’m sure it’ll last me as well as my 2000 410-MA has. 21 years and still going with zero issues. All that to say if i could afford 8k or so sure I’d love to see what that feels and sounds like but I’d also like to see what a builder like this would do if he did all the research to figure out how to make MIA guitars for consumers starting at 1600 or so and working it’s way up from there what their factory process would look like
You guys need to do a torture test video comparing scarf joint neck strength vs one piece necks to settle the debate.
I think we will!
Very interesting seeing a custom Guitar builder critique a Very Big Box store's builds, Really brings the differences to light between the two, I am sure you have plans for a PRS one as well, At least I hope so!, Carry On. and Thx ...
Remember fellas, 3k dollar guitars that sound unmistakable. Paint or binding for another 10k. Genius! Dudes name should be Austin Powers, ya baby ya! Well regrow the forest ya! Andy, Bob! Nice work, but if someone said here’s a free guitar I’d take the Driftwood!! Email me brother I’ll give you my inlay ideas.
Love your content. I watch the recaps to "X: Guitar factory tour video. I think you should do one on the Seagull Guitars from Godin here in Canada. I would love to hear your opinion.
33:13 that neck joint must have to be 100% perfect
As a builder, I now play my own guitars…yet I still own my two original 90’s era Taylor guitars. Even though Taylor guitars were the brand that I originally embraced, I’ve watched as the company has slowly transitioned away from what I fell in love with, and become everything that I didn’t like about Martin and Gibson. Still, my 1993 712 Grand Concert and 1995 GAWS Limited are great examples of what Taylor Guitars used to be.
-joel
Exactly!
I hope to someday play a guitar I built, but I'm still on my first uke. I cried the day I sold my '92 Taylor 512 back in the 2008 crash to pay child support (I'd do it again). I thought I'd have that guitar the rest of my life, I never had want for another. I never played a guitar I liked better.
I assume they are using a uv cured laquer, but would uv help nitro cellulose laquer cure faster and more evenly as well?
Man, as much as I love building guitars I don't think I could ever work at a guitar factory.
Definitely loving the Vids guys. This is a nice sideways step too!
RE: scarf joints though - I’m not sure you are correct (or wrong for that matter). I think it needs tested in the same way as that whole end grain ‘myth’ thing that has been flying about the past few weeks on RUclips.
Personally, I’d think the scarf joint does not perform any worse than a single piece neck. Would be very interesting to see it tested empirically.
I think we should make a test video
@@DriftwoodGuitars that would be a fun one!!! how would you do the test? that's a tricky one.
@@polescalante Drop test would be one for sure. See how prone to breaking one is over the other. Transfer would be another. Create a vibration at an equidistant point on the fret board from the joint and measure at the end of the headstock.
@@DriftwoodGuitars do it!
@@gpower the drop test would be a good one if we did 10 of each maybe? It's very inconsistent IMO since none will fall exactly the same. Maybe with some mechanism that puts and measures pressure to the tip of the headstock in the same direction as the pulling of the strings. That way we could maybe see if the grain not being straight on the headstock from the 1 piece would break before the 2 piece would?