Democracy Is Overpowered In Stellaris
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
- Stellaris Galactic Paragons brings us faster ways to conquer the galaxy. This Stellaris Galactic Conquest will use democracy, aptitude and the Here Be Dragons Origin. We will do the unthinkable to conquer the galaxy in just 20 years.
Oh, and we'll get infinite unity and become the crisis by year 10...
Lets dive in!
Stellaris Version 3.8
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I also neglected to mention in the video your edicts can all be run and you can finish as many agendas as you want early for 20k unity a pop at year 10, just spam that support button for extra unity lol
This feels like a Spiffing Brit video lol 😂
vassals: we won't stand for this anymore! we must rise up and destroy you!......but we will keep paying our taxes
but why?
What mod does this use? @MontuPlays
"Become my Vassal so i can protect you."
"Protect me from what?"
"From what my FUCKING DRAGON will do to you if you dont."
I made them an offer they couldn't refuse
@@MontuPlays you do make a fair point though
forced protection
@@MontuPlays its a win win for the both of you. For you its a win win because you either gain a vassal or gain more territory for expansion. for him its a win win because he get to live or die quickly.
so, normal diplomacy. instead of battleships, you use dragons, no dragons irl, yet.
I love democracy.
I love the Republic
@ZenithTSF cringe.
@ZenithTSF yes
@ZenithTSF for safe and secure society I bet 😎
@@TJRex01 The power you give me now I will lay down when this crisis has abated.
My allegiance is to the Republic, to Democracy!
Long. Live. The EMPIRE
I have the high ground!
Step 1. Use bug to get unlimited unity
Step 2. Talk to Here Be Dragon super early by having 6 ascension perks
Step 3. Having overwhelming fleet power super early because dragon is on your side lets you do whatever you want politically, including federations
2 1/2. safescum to trigger Here be Dragon repeatedly for wanted outcome
4. join Dragon with a 1 ship fleet and admiral, delete that ship to get the admiral onto an otherwise not supposedly admiral carrying unit
the amount of abuse in this build is worthy of the spiffing brit
@@kinngrimm to be fair, the admiral thing is not strictly necessary, just a fun addition!
Bug? Surely you mean feature...
@@MontuPlays mate i hope you didn't see this as an attack on you, you provide excelent content, i was just adding to theme of OPs comment =)
Is that admiral trick possible with other fleets that do not allow for admirals or only with this Dragon this way? I often tried to add fleets i was gifted to others and everytime got anoyed when that wasn't possible ^^. I mean Bubbles followed me, grew up by eating my pizza, learned to crack a joke on my behalf, but just couldn't accept my authority ... what a rebel -_-
@@kinngrimm attack? Not at all, I just wanted to add a point of info there
"The developers turned the % modifier into a flat reduction..."
I immediately said "oh no" when you said this. I think I know where this is going, particularly after you said don't colonize.
Changing any modifier from flat to percentage based or percentage based to flat, is always going to be a point of failure as far as balance goes.
@@kiritotheabridgedgod4178 it would be balanced if they put a minimum of 1 empire size
@@waterking1013 not the point, point is, you're often better of tweaking the numbers as opposed to how the numbers are applied, when it comes to balancing.
i don't see why they don't make the modifier multiplicative. Like one governer takes 2% off of 100%, then the next takes 2% off of 98%, etc.
@@cringe8166 from what I can tell and think of, harder to code, easier to fuck up and break and the potential to slow down sim speed.
If you're only working with percentage changes, multiplicative works fine, but if you're working with both flat and percentage changes, the multiplicative percentage reductions get fucky and have drastically different results depending on the order of operations. It's not so bad on sim speed if you only have to do that for one or two things, but stellaris is certainly a unique kettle of fish.
The Rakatan Infinite Empire was a nice touch, for those who don't know it is a faction in the old expanded Star Wars universe that conquered the galaxy a long time before the present setting.
very infamous for the Star Forges *cough cough* Jedi Civil War with Revan and Malak *cough cough*
Disney's greatest crime against star wars was nuking the expanded universe.
They're not lithoids though. And one of the reptile appearances looks almost exactly like the in-game Rakata, with their far-apart eyes.
I was looking for this comment.
@@vallraffsI was looking for this comment too.
Who knew democracy was so unethical in stellaris. Love it
Don’t you pay attention to politics?
@@thegradyfiles To be fair, I'd rather have a democracy that occasionally uses corruption to hand power to people that didn't earn it... than an imperial or dictatorial leadership that seizes that corrupt level of power permanently!
Especially given what I often make my emperors do to my pops...
"politicians are a lot like diapers: They should be changed frequently, and for the same reason"
Problem is, in the west, 'democracy' is a brand. It covers for oligarchy.
@@JB-xl2jc
@@JB-xl2jcyep.
People tend to forget just how bad dictatorships and other forms of goverment were for the average citizen. Democracy, out of all of them, is simply the least bad
For those who wonder 'why are Paradox using players as beta-testers???' I'd say part of it is that the playerbase seems to love to find ways to break their games.
I think the devs enjoying seeing it quite a bit too.
Pretty sure a dev even said something like "We can test for hours, but getting it out there gives us more data than we could ever get from internally testing."
I had my homeworld get duplicated by the Doorway event recently while doing a Doomsday/Eager Explorers run. That was a nice game breaker.
@@asteropax6469 That's nice, our people got to see their beloved home explode into pieces all over again :)
@@blackcitadel9 yeah. Like, look for game breaking bugs and fix them, but balance and exploits aren't as important
I love the implications of a Admiral on a dragon, is he like riding throughout the galaxy destroying the enemies of democracies with his liberty loving beast
The fact that this isn't necessarily an intended interaction and I can't straight up assign Slim Pickens to ride the dragon is a big miss by Paradox.
My Little Dragon: Democracy Is Magic
Stellaris 3.8.4 Empire Size now has a floor of 50, and thus can no longer go negative. :D
Imagine working at Paradox, showing up on a monday morning after having a rough weekend to be briefed by your manager that Montu broke the game again.
Time to hunt some achievements then.
This strategy is entirely ironman compatible
Start of the video: ok, thats strange ....how would he do that?
Mid: U DUCKING WHAT??
I love that you made the Rakatan Empire, a militaristic slaver empire, as an overpowered democracy. It's so beautiful.
So basically all you have to do is reduce your empire size to paradoxical antimatter, remember to vote, make friends with a dragon, and then scare your neighbors with the immortal wyvern rider you managed to create.
Why didn't I think of that?!
I thought I was watching Spiff for a moment from how perfectly balanced this strategy is
So that's Star Wars with the "Sith win" ending. Overtake the republic, check. Use the force to gain absolute power over ancient super weapon, check. Force all neighbors into submission, check. Kill the rest, check. Bring eternal balance to the force. 😅
Its basicly the wave from ST Generations but with an ancient dragon instead of a star destroying missile ;D
I love trying Montu's builds out, I get to see how much worse I can make them go for me. Love the videos though.
saw the abuse of that empir sprawl reduction on another channel, but he did really optimize this build in terms of OP and abuse
My man Montu with the Star Ocean Anime Villan Build; with the egalitarian sacred order of the Sky Dragon, the galactic utopia/dystopia, merging with the sky dragon to become a star devouring monster and triggering an JRPG-Style galactic get-together to bring down the BBEG at the end of the universe...
"Rakata"
"Infinite Empire"
I understood this reference.
One thing I didn't hear in the video was that at year 10, after you immediately gain the infinite unity, you should enact ALL of your agendas, by completing them early.
And you can fire off all your edicts as well
@@MontuPlays And you can nab active sensor link from each empire you meet, for 30 years, by offering 1 active sensor link + 1 consumer good monthly for 1 active sensor link 30 years, this ramps up the meeting time very early
@@beaglejack2023 that... Is a very good idea that I did not think of doing!
He's too dangeorus to be left alive
@@beaglejack2023 This way you have to finish first contact or likely other empire will do. Better trade for contacts as at year 10 each empire has at least contact with 2 other empires, so you can technically have contacts with whole galaxy within several month span
A unity exploit, what a time to be alive. Now who said unity was useless lol?!
You can combine this with holy covenant, harmony, and +unity civic (which can be earned by statecraft) with docile pops to cause pops to also give negative empire size. 85% from Ascension 10, 20% from a level 10 governor, and 10% from docile. If combining cybernetic with this despite spiritualist, you can add another 10% discount.
-“Please set your diplomatic stance to isolationist’
*proceeds to conquer the whole galaxy*
This is absolutely hilarious, Montu
As always, Montu proves his genius. I have got to try this at my next opportunity. It looks like even more fun than when he broke Knights of the Toxic God by offering prisoners jobs on the Order's space station before the patch.
just need to so this vid is so well directed, had me on the edge of my seat the whole time, and more than a few "oh no!"s. well don't montu, fantastic work!
Each patch some poor dev is gonna have to be like "Alright what strange way is Montu going to abduct the dragon early this time?"
Hrozgar should get a fixed Admiral so they could be elected in a democracy
This would be so cool for everything from the ether drake to the psionic entity.
This... this is beautiful
Paradox is like me, in that we both try to fix things and end up making it much worse.
Imagine what the PDX programmer in charge of bounding the derived variables must have been feeling when they realized they didn't bind the empire size variable to greater than or equal to one?
It is pretty incredible that those empire size effects apply to idle leaders rather than only assigned ones
"Oh no. Looking at all of these fleets. Isn't it dangerous? Well AcKtuRelLY no
This dragon should be able to tank these *HUNDREDS OF Ks WORTH OF SHIPS* relatively easy"
Absolutely gold 😂
Ive been playing for like 20 hours and never been attacked once. Even after switching to max difficulty/aggresiveness
“There seems to be some kind of bug…” was the dragon thing your first clue? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
That infinite Unity gain is one of the most broken things I've seen. How you or anyone discovered it is beyond me XD
I like how your vassals rebel against you but still pay their taxes.
Authoritarian Empire -> Oligarchic Military Federation -> Ratiocratic Democracy.
That is the ideal means to Galactic Conquest. You have to be completely dedicated to conquest and this may involve enslavement for any populations that resist you, in tun you provide citizenship like the Roman Empire. First they can pay for their own freedom and can continue to live freely given they don't resist the law, otherwise they are re-enslaved. Second, they can apply for citizenship but this requires service for the Empire similar to Rome.
After you have conquered the Galaxy, you then turn towards being an Oligarchic Military Federation in order to maintain and develop the empire into becoming a coherent structure to itself as prior it was just a conquering military institution, you now need that military complex to serve the needs of those who have sought to become citizens and maintain this society in whole.
Then you become a Ratiocratic Democracy, not just a Democracy, but a Democracy of Learned People who adhere to Reasonable Expectations and Interests to prevent Democracy from spirally into a madness upon itself. Ultimately, it is really more of a Ratiocracy in which Democracy comes about as a consequence of its achievements. A natural progression rather than one that forced upon a people.
By the way, the same can apply to a planetary government and something we should do if we bother to dehumanize the sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists and borderline personality disorder dumbfucks within our population to make such a venture possible.
There is a great disturbance in the Force.
I'm gonna be trying this ngl, I've been playing democratic even though it ain't really that good of a government type on stellaris but I like technocracy, I'm happy it finally became a meta.
I adore the KotOR reference. That's a deep cut
If you want a version of this build that lets you take an ascension perk but doesn't let you do a full galactic conquest (if you only want to do half-cheese), you could take Teachers of the Shroud or Overtuned instead of Here Be Dragons. If you go Teachers, start researching Psionic Theory ASAP so you can have it by Year 10. If you go Overtuned, you'll start with Gene Splicing already. This will let you pick up Psionic Ascension and Genetic Ascension when you get your infinite unity, though it does mean no dragon. If you go Psionic and are lucky with your first Shroud event though, you may spawn a Psionic Avatar, which should also get you that huge fleet power needed to start vassalizing the AI.
Ah, back when aptitude didn't suck.
Put -X%, hehe 0% empire let's go!
Put -X, hehe negative empire let's go!
"...and now Stellaris is perfectly balanced, as all things should be."
Ladies and gentlemen, this exploit deserves to be watched with a nice warm cup of Yorkshire Tea because these are Spiff-level shenanigans!
To avoid any confusion: I 100% mean this as a compliment.
I love democracy. I love the republic.
As soon as you said Infinite Empire, I was on board. And you did not disappoint.
... and separately, watching that dragon immortality battle reminded me of days in eve as a logi pilot; watching that armor rep kick in with every strike.
I noticed the flag change between 1:00 and 2:00. Did it just take a couple tries to get your strat down?
Actually it did, I had some issues with the dragon events firing. However that change was made AFTER I recorded all the gameplay footage, as I realised the flag I used was the same as the GPO and I wanted to change it
spliced run
@@bignerd3783 The footage gameplay footage used was all from the same run!
Nice touch on the “Infinite empire” with the “Rakata”. Not many know about them
that admiral that rides the dragon?
name them Miraak lol
This is spiffingbrit levels of shenanigans and I couldnt be happier
Admiral Kaleesie over here conquering everything on the back of the dragon 😂
the virgin early dragon necromancy exploit VS the chad Dragon Anarchism President
"Perfectly balanced, as all things should be" made me double check if I wasn't watching a Spiffing Brit video.
Wish I knew this was patched out. Spent so long in the first 5 years (Was just going for the unity). When I finally got a precursor I wanted I went forward, then noticed that the minimum empire size is a fixed 50 now
I keep forgetting people play this multiplayer so they *need* to fix the exploits fast x_x
Lovely throwback to KOTOR with the Rakatan Infinite Empire
Actually edict upkeep and costs also get negative when your anti-empire has an anti-size.
They do have a base value that they don't tend to go below actually. Though with under 100 empire size you can fire off council agendas for only 20k unity, I neglected to cover that as well
@@MontuPlays Probably true, the game doesn't break down the calculus - only the balance. Actually at -512 empire size, you can fire the agendas for 'only' 8300 unity...
At least 'legally' reaching -512 should be impossible (unless you want to go over-over leader cap) so shenanigans get covered up to a point.
Also the game says : Base : -82.40 unity Reductions : -10% Psionic -10% Spiritualist Total cost : -65.92 unity... HOW IS THAT BONUSES? 🤣
My dragon communication was bugged once but after I finished the psionics tradition it suddenly contacted me to join me and give me the opportunity to hatch eggs myself. Well, I built dragon hatcheries but they as well were bugged and I wasn't able to make any more dragons
??? I thought I was watching Montu Plays and not the Spiffing Brit.
I think this run has made the devs go home and rethink their life....
Grab your Yorkshire tea everyone! This is a worthy addition to the great tea drinking moment's like buying energy credits with energy credits .
You had me at "immortal dragon". Played off and on for years, and can safely say this will be the first time I will try out egalitarian 😂.
The star wars references
...what an absolute wild ride of a video.
“Do you see this, someone is trying to be the galactic custodian. We can’t allow this!” “Yea dude but like, he’s got all 4 xeno diplomacy techs and like 5 envoys in thrbglssctoc community
I noticed only a little bit of the Spiffing Brit creeping in to this video.
I'm so glad that we have Montu to remind us of how fair and balanced Stellaris is.
I love the nods to TheSpiffingBrit XD
lol this felt more like a spiffingbrit video with the balance demonstration
Montu how long until the leader trait tier list?? 😩 I cant wait any longer...
SoonTM
Almost as crazy as that one time I blew up the galaxy in 2217. Yes, 2217.
Plays a democracy...forces the entire galaxt to submit to his empire. Just as intended.
They can fix this easily by just making the bonuses from the tradition only apply if a leader is assigned to a position, i.e. ship, planet, army, councilor. It's such an easy oversight that I'm really surprised it wasn't part of the design to begin with. Not to mention negative empire size keeps rearing its head over and over, how many times is it going to take for them to just hard cap the empire size reduction to zero?
It's odd that this wasn't the first change tbh. They implemented caps elsewhere. Weird.
Or just set the minimum empire size to 0.
0 size was also exploitable because it eliminated the unity cost of planetary ascension. So if you want to set a cap, it should be 1
@@baddie9180 Seems I was mistaken about that then. I'll edit. I still think even 0 size is a problem and it should be kept strictly positive
Really loved the Star Wars Legends reference!!
Stellaris was always broken, but paragons got it to the edge. Hilarious😂
0:47 "Hey! i understood that reference!"
I love the Republic, I love Democracy.
- Sheev Palpatine.
The Spiffing Brit: "Stay out of my territory."
I prefer hidden op above outright balance exploits.
0:26 me haveing from start ruler with 20+ traits : yes.... balance.....of course......
I am eyeing the Crusader civic, it fits perfectly with a Fanatic Egalitarian+Militarist build I have wanted to make work for a while.
You are very strong in the Dark Side of the Force, please, teach me Master!
Ah, yes, more star wars references!
A surprise, but a welcome one
guess I go ahead a do this playthrough before the inevitable patch.
ah, that's why minimum empire size is now 50
This would make the spiffing brit proud.
bring the galactic yorkshire tea bois... here be balance
This video brought to you by Spiffing Montu.
I think I have an addiction to playing on Grand Admiral, I keep starting and dropping easy games where I play on Ensign at like year 1, or 2. But on Grand Admiral I keep playing until year 80-90 when I finally lose to the neighboring crisis aspirant, determined exterminators. Also, scaling mid game is pretty nice, gives me a chance to not lose straight away.
6 governors, -24 empire size? How? Shouldn't that be -12?
This is what they get for not making leader cap scale like starbase cap. Just make it a hard limit per pops in your empire; 5+(pop/50) or something. That way a thriving system with over 100 population could support one famous governor and scientist. You would still have sub 20 leaders for most of the game too.
Yeah, Paradox are going to crush this in a near instant. Because you went ahead and made a video Montu. Still they would notice sooner or later anyhow, all you've done is made it obvious sooner.
Am I imagining things or did Fanatic Egalitarian used to disable Academic Privilege? Maybe I'm completely imagining that, or maybe they changed it
Shared burdens does disable it, the ethics do not
@@butifarras Gotcha, maybe that's what I was thinking of. Or maybe a mod.
OH. You know what I'm thinking of, I'm conflating the Shared Burdens disabling it and the fact that any stratified economy at all pisses off your egalitarian pops (but not a huge deal really).
Unlimited Pow..um, Unity!
the admiral in my headcannon is the Protagonist from Ride on King 🤣🤣
I swear my Empire is usually bigger, it must be because it is only 2.7 Kelvin up in here... Only leaders and envoys, no workers, it's clearly a shower, not a grower!
Paradox: "you can't earn achievements with most mods enabled because that's unfair and can be exploited and everyone knows achievements need to be gatekept because they're not meant to provide a sense of accomplishment or satisfaction to the player, they're instead there in order to flex on others or like show capability or... Idk lol"
Also Paradox: