Final Fantasy X Tips & Tricks - 5 Mistakes You Make in Lightning Dodging
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- I know this is titled "things you may be doing wrong" but these are meant to be tips for the people having a hard time with this side-quest! Hope this helps!
Tips & Tricks Playlist:
• FFX Tips & Tricks
Final Fantasy X is a Japenese Role Playing Game owned and developed by Square Enix. All rights to the Characters, music, and other copyrighted material seen in this video belongs to them. I do not claim nor portray myself to be the owner of any of the copyrighted material present. The gameplay and commentary was captured and recorded by myself. No copyright infringement inteded. 
Игры
Okay rewatching this I realized I wasn't clear with saying that certain things you do "Reset" the dodge counter. That isn't technically accurate. The minigame operates on a "High Score" mechanic.
As an example, if you dodge 180 lightning bolts in a row successfully, but then get hit for what would've been the 181st bolt, the dodge counter will stop, and your "high score" would be 180. When I said "Reset" I meant that if you were to start dodging after getting hit, the counter would start at zero once again. BUT your high score of 180 will still be saved.
The objective of the minigame is to get 200 dodges as a high score, so that means if you manged to dodge 200 lightning bolts in a row without getting hit, it doesn't matter how many times you get hit after that, you'll already have completed the challenge, and you can claim the sigil at the Inn.
....so if you get hit before the 200 mark you basically have to start over?...
@@Roxas-dr8om pretty much. Sigil minigames are dumb tbh
@@UG_Commentary or ball-bustingly hard
@@jb111082 this one an the chocobo one were hell for me when the game initially launched, didnt know about the crater thing as all i had was the guide book back then
@@jamesw8698 The Chocobo one was INFURIATING!! I don't know how many times I finished with 0.0.1 on the clock. I'm pretty sure I broke a controller or three over that one.
This helped. I turned off the music and it helped me. I was able to dodge 108 lightning bolts, which was about 9 minutes on my timer. I'm feeling positive about it this time, and I know I can get it. This has haunted me for almost 20 years now. This is my 3rd play-through.
I ran back and forward from the crater to the lightning tower. Pause and take a break for about 10 to 15 seconds after about every 10-15 dodges or so(whatever your more confortable with). This helped me complete it for the first time in my life about a couple weeks ago. I'm 32 and have been playing this game since I was like 12. Lol good luck!
Did you end up doing it?
It's not 20 years old
@@lostforever773 it was released in July of 2001. July 21 2021 was the 20 year anniversary.
@@davidmedford1166 oh shit
It came out when I was 5
i remember completing this on the ps2. don't leave the area, mute audio, focus when the screen turns white, dodge 50 bolts, pause to refocus/rest, repeat dodging another 50.
Awesome, didn't know about the crater trick. Just got 172 at the first try after previously not getting past 10.
I got to 188. And I never tried again. But I'm gonna give it one more shot with these tips. It's like late game free throws. They look easy. You know you got it. You've done so many. And you just choke.
Take a break every 10 to 20 lightning dodges for about 10 seconds. I completed this for the first time in my life a few weeks ago.
I’m trying it like this we will see
@@cuka2cool_748 good luck! I hope you got it.
That's what I do every time. I dodge 10 bolts and then pause. Relax and then dodge another 10. One time I messed up on 192 however. 😡
Once you think you got 200 bolts however, do another 10 or so just to be sure.
I tried that and everytime i tried to get back to it i qiuld miss. Once i got hit on the way back to the crater and i quit doing it that way lol
When i got it i did 500 straight for fun because i had it down so well.
I did this by using a code breaker to register 1 dodge as 200 back in the day lol
Modern problems require modern solutions lol
Best guide in this minigame out there. I put some music on and went to town. 324 consecutive bolts!
I'm upset that my biggest problem was that I lost count of how many I did and ended up with 428 consecutive dodges after listening to an entire album of blitzkid. Whenever I kept count I would have a fidget or miss my dodge.
Blitzkid, the Horror Punk band!?
There's also a crater in the north field, near the exit, where lightning strikes at a much higher rate.
I can already see this making all the difference. Will definitely try this on my next playthrough. Thanks for the pointers!!
20 years of playing this and you finally helped me get this one. Great suggestion regarding turning the sound off!
I never knew this. That mini game was sooooo frustrating for me so I just made my own sudo-onion knight which ended up being a cactuar lol
Thanks for putting this out there now I can finally dodge lightning bolts in real life with a great strategy and idea of how to do it thanks to this amazing video.
Just came back to the video to say thank you so much I’ve been playing this game for years and trying to do this challenge on and off and I was finally able to get it done first it was 96 in one go then got to 121 then I was on my phone with my bro talking for 35 minutes. Next thing I knew I had 211. You gave me the ultimate tip, which was mute the TV, because all I was doing after that, was focusing on the flash, and it helped severely.
Thank you for putting this together. I really appreciate your editing and patience in explaining the perfect technique to dodge all 200 lightning bolts.
I'm definitely going to try this trick the next time I play.
Your tips are really good. I already did some of these tips, including the sound one. I have another alternative area, it is more risky, but it finishes in less time.
In the lake close to the exit there is a kind of shelter. You must position Tidus near the tip of the lake (Towards the shelter). Then lightning will strike, Tidus jumps back, the moment the action ends and he turns to face the camera, another flash of lightning appears. It's really very close to each other. However, the time between one ray and another will always be the same as long as it is positioned in the same place.
1- Positioned Tidus near the tip of the lake;
2- First flash of lightning;
3- Escape from the first;
4- After the character jumps back and turns towards our screen, another flash appears and you press the button again to dodge.
5- I suggest taking notes so as not to lose count.
6- If you want take a rest, put PAUSE.
This was NOWHERE near as bad as the jump rope king challenge in FF9.
I had to train myself in the Zen mental state to preserve the good health of my cat and TV.
For me I prefer dodging my lightning in the North Section. Entering from the Travel Agency side, just like the crater, there's a spot where you can also force lightning to strike. what I like about this spot though is that its closer to the agency, but you can dodge two bolts. One for when you reach the sweat spot, and another immediately after you've dodged the first one, allowing to you to clear the challenge much faster and not have to walk so far to claim your prize
During this challenge, if you play with the sound up, all you have to do is just stop running right when you hear thunder clap. It saves time running to a crater and doesn't affect your overall score.
Yep, I've used that crater to complete the two times (I know, I need help) I've completed this challenge. It makes this faster. XD
It helped me when i counted in batches of 25, pause for 20 secs to reset myself and restart my count. Less nervous that way. Got it after 5 attempts so delighted to get it
Oh my God Finally! Thanks man, this is the first time I've ever completed the 200 Streak. Thanks for the Guide
100% saving this for my next playthrough…just need that damn dodger chocobo one too lol.
Thank you again for this tips video! I am about to try again. I commented over a year ago and still haven't tried for some reason.
I'm starting now I at 59 currently
@@kylespinelli5887 I got to 9 minutes before messing up. I also tried to use 2x speed to make it 10 minutes instead of 20. Unfortunately, there is more room for error that way.
@@kylespinelli5887 I'll probably try in another year, or maybe even get over my addiction to gaming and never complete it.
Thanks man. Your video really helped me out. Especially the crater trick and the advice to kill volume. Probably played this game through 20 times and never knew to do either of those things. Did it on the second shot this time.
You're welcome! I'm glad this helped you out and I appreciate the kind words!
After aaaaall these years I finally did it with your help! Thank you! 😁
Great job! My pleasure!
Thank you so much! You’re tips helped me immensely & now I have my Onion Knight fully powered!!🙏🏼
This is the one crest/sigil I’ve never gotten. Can’t get past 5 much less 200
The 20 minute timer is the only tip I had never done. I usually break every 10, marking somewhere each time until 200 total. That is a ridiculous way to do it. Thank you for the idea. Counting adds another element you have to think about, similar to the game sounds. I'm not sure when I will try to get the weapons again, so I hope I remember to use a timer once I DO try.
If u circle the 2 small circles I had 271 dodges in like 8-10 min didn’t time it honestly but it went fast
@@speakerboxxers3618 Try again please and time it this time. I would love to halve the time it takes. Even 10 minutes is still a tough ask.
@@speakerboxxers3618 Thank you for the recommendation.
@@speakerboxxers3618 Did you manage to try again? I understand it is kind of pointless to try again, as you already got the pieces for the ultimate weapon the first time, with 271 dodges.
@@infiniteaaron I made 3 different game saves and at 9 minutes 37 seconds I got 243 at 10 minutes about the same depends on if you mess up or you can continuously circle my finger slipped 7-9 times off the analog stick and that’s without counting at all I just did it for that long and it still works better then taking a break coming back after counting to 100 just to mess up on 124 or 189 you don’t have that stress of counting so it is a lot easier
Thanks again. Not the first time I’ve used this video.
I'm at 50 dodges now and just paused it as the video was ending lol, I got this, so easy
Failed at probably around 120 given the time I failed lol... God damn xD
"Unnecessary?" I disagree! Glad to have someone making these kind of videos. I've always had trouble with the minigames. I think the only time I EVER managed to get ALL of the Ultimate Weapons was my first, 750 hour, play through on PS2. Unfortunately, for some reason, it is also the only time I EVER had a corruption happen. The file literally corrupted right after I FINALLY beat the Chocobo Race...
that's horrible. Sorry for your loss ;_;
@@Chibiwawa Luckily, it's just a game. Thank you, though. I've probably sunk literally thousands of hours just into FFX by now, so it's not necessarily a loss. It's more a waste.
Did you alternate saves? Or did the whole memory card get messed up? My memory card still has data from 2001.
@@Zert_McGert I only had ONE save. I never made new saves at any point.
Wow wow wow! For somthing I thought I’d never do, this is amazing! Got 200 first try, and did 25 more just for extra measure. No sound helped a lot!
I made it yesterday 🎉, it took me about 15 min, thank you very much for the help ❤
This video is very enlightening. It's moved FFX up from "Never gonna play this game" to "Maaaaybe, after I exhaust all other options." I enjoyed this game on the PS2 and should deserve some respect, and this video shows what is possible. ;)
Got it on my first try thanks to this video! Thank you so much!!!!
Never thought of turning the sound off. That'll surely help for when I eventually replay the game and torture myself with getting the weapons all over again haha.
You can also Tap Square or Circle if you accidentally tapped X early. You gotta be quick but if you're fast and hit O then X again you'll dodge it
Fricken nice...
Fantastic content, First time subscriber and I can't wait to give this a try.
Here's another tip: If you do decide to count your dodges, I would recommend counting to 25, taking a small (or large) break at the pillar, then starting back from 0. This may seem like it would be ineffective, but it works great for people who feel pressure after 100 or so lightning strikes. I managed to get 129 without doing chunks of 25, then the second I started doing chunks of 25 I got 250.
Side note: There's a faster version of the crater technique I discovered in about 3 hours of practice. It's a bit difficult to explain, but you can do a small loop between the crater and the path. The trick is to go slightly under the lightning rod then immediately go back to the crater so there's less wasted time walking back and forth. This will help truncate the amount of time needed to complete this challenge quite significantly, and it's consistent enough to where I was able to do a new game and do the challenge again in one attempt.
That’s what I do. I but don’t do increments. I just break when I feel more pressure from excitement. I quit counting but just repeat until I’m hit the I go check my rates.Also equip something with no encounters. Fiend attacks increase chances of being struck.
This was incredibly helpful. Thank you
Great video. This helped out a lot. Way easier than the the chocobo minigame trophies.
Don't do it when you're half asleep or while your cat is pestering you for food.
I did this plenty of times on my PSVita and just did it for the first time on the Steam Version of the game and I can confirm this video was actually helpful even for ppl who already did it in the past. Dont panic and mash is super helpful to know as it can be tempting in order to correct. I can also confirm turning off audio helped a lot. I just did 232 dodges in a row first try just with these two infos alone.
these seem like really good tricks. if I ever try again, i will have to follow this guide.
I loved your video truly great game tips with this mini game. I once played and beat the PlayStation 2 version of this game and beat this lightning dodger mini game with no game tips. That was one of the hardest game points i have ever played. Plus this mini game is possible to beat with lots of practice. Thanks for the game tips on this mini game I found it interesting.
I am really impressed by people who managed to do this without any tricks. Takes a lot of dedication! Thank you for the kind words!
In the ps2 era, we could save the dodges at the sphere point. In the remaster they fixed it to force us dodge 200 in a row with higher fps
Whoa... thanks, It took me many tries, but when you said, that turn game audio off would help, I did it on 1 try, THANKS A LOT !
Yo I tried your crater trick and I got it in my first try! Thanks bro 👍!!
I counted to 50 4 times.. you only have to go around the 2nd black circle. was able to get it done in 11 minutes.
I never knew about the crater trick when I did it on the ps2. I ran around with the audio on low, with no encounters, and in a dark room so the flash would be more obvious. Was thinking about getting back into the remaster but was dreading this but with this trick it makes it seem so much easier.
This helped immensely! Thank you!
Don't count dodges, just set a timer 20-22 min out of sight. Turn off game sound and turn on some music and when timer goes off you did it.
True
Pain in the butt, but I did most of these tips and it worked. Note pay more attention to the big flash than where you are standing on the ground. A lot of people say you just have to stand in the same spot. Did this and the most I could get was 180. Only thing I did different here is that you don't have to run all the way to the pole. Halfway seems to be fine. I would do 20 at a time as well and take as long of a break as I needed. Ended up doing 250 in a row. So relived to have this challenge done. Now I just have to do butterflies, chocobo, and blitzball ._.'.
I actually done this twice believe it or not. I have platinumed this game and x-2.
Awesome video, got it on my 2nd try 😁 although I couldn't help counting lol
This video helped me so much, in a psychological way. I already knew the crater trick but wanted to search more tips and stumbled upon this video. I then tried this exact method (crater trick, no audio, set a timer and dont count), and got it first try! I've set a 20 min timer and did 30 more dodges just to be safe, and in the end i got 297 dodges! :D
Oh, I remember this trauma, I dodged it over 500x times (just to see if there were more items). I did the exact opposite for it 😅. I did turn the sound extra loud and just got into the sound rhythm of the thunder strikes. Sure, there are fake ones, but those sound different (more muffled) and you will be able to distinquish them easy enough. Should also make a note for the No Encounters auto-ability that weapons can have, since getting into battle will screw things up for the rhythm.
I just used the flash of light.
the first one definitely helps i didnt know about it and turning the music off i imagine would and not counting
I use the first lightning tower after the inn. Just before it, there is a spot that gives you two lightnings back to back. Dodge the first one, and immediately hold your direction back to the same spot for it to come back again.
19:51 217 bolts dodged. This video was such a big help!
Crater trick is great. I set a timer for 25 mins, to be extra sure I dodged enough. I had to turn off volume, stop counting, and just focus on watching the flashes. At one point, I overshot the crater, it didn't flash and I got hit. Lucikly, I did 18 minutes of dodging before I got hit and that was enough! Phew
These tips definitely help. I'm still struggling for dear life, getting hit at the 98 mark and having to start all over again, definitely the most infuriating "mini game" ever. The timer trick makes it feel more bearable, as i tend to lose count and start counting in 2s by accident when I want to finish counting faster.still feels impossible, will update when I finally succeed.
Yooooooooooo!!! After 14 years I finally freaking got the sigil! Let's gooooo! Thank you so much for your tips! 254 bolts dodged
Back on ps2 did it in the north part in an hour, cant wait to do it again
Holy shit, this is the one thing I have never been able to accomplish in FFX in about 15 years now other than beating Penance & Dark Magus Sisters. I’ve heard of the “crater trick” before but I think I used a different crater and when it didn’t work I just didn’t bother looking into it more lol Gonna give this a definite try pretty soon!
Thanks for this! I'm glad this video made you wanna try it again. Good luck!! :)
@@UG_Commentary omg I just did it in under 40 minutes lol I messed up twice after 70 dodges and 160 dodges, but I guess third time’s the charm lol
It’s actually pretty simple when u know where and when it hits haha
Anyway, thanks a lot you made my day!! ❤️
Grrrr!!!!
Even with these tips, I never manage to get past, maximum, 30 dodges before I get hit. Even when I seem to hit the button at the right time, I’ll still get hit randomly.
Thank you for these tips! Im setting a timer to 22 min rn
Only ever dont this once years ago and about to attempt it again now i completed it in about 15 mins as i remember but am guna run the full 20min timer this time thanks for the video :)
First mistake: Getting hit by lightning instead of dodging it
Lol
The 6th mistake I make doing Lightning Dodging is doing Lightning Dodging in the first place
This already helped a bunch. Running to that crater is awesome. I’ve definitely lost my touch. Did it a few times years ago. Just had a spot where I would stand and dodge 5-6 then run back to that spot. Got it. Then loaded up my buddy’s save and got it for him too. Then the last time I did it. I didn’t count at all. Figuring when I got to a high number I’d choke but couldn’t remember if the game told you when you dodged that many. Ended up dodging a little over 300. This time I’m running to the crater because I suck at it now. Lol. Lulu’s weapon is soooo good. Maybe this time I’ll try to get wakkas too. But blitzball sucks ass
This is definitely 200 times easier than the chocobo race for the sun sigil
nice vid man
Thank you! I appreciate it!
Thank you I got it I’m crying 😢
One additional tip that I found helpful; playing in a dark room makes it a tad easier to react to the lightning flash
Thanks man!
The hardest part is the concentration that it takes to do it. Another great tip is to take a break every five mins or so. Ive done this only once but man did that help.
#6 dont miscount after a break, i stopped at 189 lol
T_T I did the same thing at 191 and haven’t tried again cus I was so angry lol
When I did this whilst running through the thunderplanes 🤣 had no Idea you could use the crater
2/3 play troughs when it came out. On the first play Remastered, I got it. All I can say is THANK YOY
Here is the point this minigame is time based with 1 strike hitting after 3 seconds the follow up after 7 seconds and from there every 7 seconds 1 bolt. What you basically do with the crater trick is you reset the timer to make it into a 3 seconds timer every time but because you have the way to cover you basically run 3 secs to the crater and 3 secs back + the dodgetime when you can't move for a short time. However not only the lightning rods have this effect also some of the cactuar stones as well like the one in the northwest near macalania which is also a safe spot from lightning but resets the timer to 3 secs afterwards.
So instead of the crater trick you could also just stay in a corner where you are not pushed arround from dodging and stay there.
I'm currently not 100% sure if other regions have other timings as as far as I remember from PS2 days there was another counter with 3 and 4 seconds in changing rotations when using the method in another map part namely south near the exit to Rins Inn. The 7 seconds I tested currently on PC remastered Version. (also I havwe the game on PS3 as well and allways got the 200 lightning strikes ;) (yeah nothing better to do XD)
I wonder why so many people think this is the most frustrating mini game in ffx? It is extremely challenging but at least if you do it perfectly you can get it some day. And think about it, it’s hard because you are dodging a bolt which is kind of impossible in the real life.
On the other hand, the sun sigil thing is so much more luck dependent and irritating. And why would birds suddenly fly so low to hit pedestrians in the face? How stoned are they ?
I 100% agree with you on the sun sigil racing, and I do think it's the hardest of the minigames simply because of how RNG dependent it is.
But I kinda do get why there are people who say lightning dodging is difficult even with the crater trick. It could be attributed to input delay, tv response time, or generally just people not having the best reaction time. Also, I noticed that a lot of the people I've helped out online with this are from Europe, which I guess would make sense since the original PAL version ran at a slower framerate than the remaster, making the timing a little different from what they're used to. I agree with you though. This is frustrating at first, but because this is just repeating the same task over and over, you could learn to do it via practice. It's a hump that you'd eventually get over through sheer perseverance.
That sun sigil though... Running out of blood sacrifices to the RNG gods for that 😬
I didn't even understand WHEN I was supposed to dodge. Thanks! (btw the X button only works on the original 2001 NA PS2 version. All other versions use the Circle button (or whatever your talk/confirm/action button is))
EDIT: Got 189 dodges last night before I got too sleepy. Got 279 this morning woo!
Glad to have helped! Also, you're probably playing an Asian version of the game! The North American version on Playstation and Steam use X as the confirm button rather than O! It's usually the Japanese versions of games that O is the confirm button!
279? Overkill lol
@@pantherman8719 I don't want to do it again...
@@Chadius I may do it.... I never beat X so...
got this on PS2 back in the days)) didn't know about crater trick, but i figured out that the audio was distracting, so played without sound. and yes, it seemed impossible at first, but after a few attempts, it worked.
_stil think this whole minigame is ridiculous tho_
I just dont think about it and do it untill i get sick of it. Having someone to talk to is helpful
I finally did it. 232 in a row. Now lulu is fantastic to use cause mp useage has decreased drastically 😎👍🍻
i just got this done today for the first time EVER
Thank you so much
when i played ffx on PS2 more than 15y ago, i have finished this quest at a random place... i remeber exactly, 3 bolts fast, short break and again 3 bolts, and so on. i think i needed 200 tries till i finished ...
now i was motivated to create a new score and when i came to this game i wasnt able to dodge even 1 bolt... 😆 at least with the crater i was able to dodge 100 till now... i believe it will be one of the last trophy i ll get, just to get the platine trophy😄
holy god, thank you man
That crater is not the only spot where the lightning is consistent. There's a spot in the north section where lightning strikes at a much faster rate, AND you can run in circles. There's also a slight delay (introduced in the remaster) when it comes to the button press, but aside from that it's a pretty straightforward minigame. Not sure why people have so much trouble with it. I got Lulu's sigil after like an hour of practice.
Tidus' sigil is definitely the worst based off of sheer difficulty, and Wakka's is probably the most tedious. Some might also say Khimari's is pretty bad, but I got his in like 2 hours. Everyone else's is cake.
It's almost as if... people were differents!! Shocking i know...
I never had any trouble with Tidus's weapon, did 7 or 8 playthrough over 20 years, never struggled on Tidus even on the first playthrought, and Kimahri's is also a breeze once you know how it works.
On the other hand, I have never (and I mean not even once) completed Lulu's weapon. It doesnt help that I never have her in my team so I dont bother wasting my time on this hellish boring minigame...
But I did try many times, and i can't for the love of god stay focused on such a boring task for 20 minutes.
@@JetFiiire In hindsight, yeah. I realized my comment comes off as douchey, so my bad.
You never used Lulu in any of your parties? Wow. Not judging, cuz I know there are other valid party setups, but she was always a mainstay for me. At least until I could get Yuna's magic to a comparable level.
@@richardsinclair7661 well I never heard of anyone having Lulu in his big 3, like, ever. Until now.
Fan favorites seem to be Tidus, Yuna, Auron and Wakka. Maybe Rikku too with her overpowered overdrive.
I'm more of a Kimahri player myself, because I enjoy bullying Biran and Yenke on mt Gagazet very much.
But I dont see any reason to have Lulu in your big 3, since Yuna will pretty much do the same from midgame onwards + she has eons + she's more of a main character.
Anyway, to each their own.
I have mild epilepsy so this one’s a nightmare for me. I have every other celestial fully upgrade (yes tidus birds can die in a fire)
I screwed up at 176 and now I gotta figure out where I can buy a length of rope.
783. I wanted to make sure I had over 200 and was listening to a podcast for like an hour.
This wasn't easy, but I actually got through it somewhat smoother than I anticipated. I think I played it very similar, but it wasn't this particular spot/crater. I recall having a hellish time with the Chocobo catching. I wanted it bad too. It's how you get Tidus's ultimate weapon. I think it was the only one I gave up on. Frustrating! Bliztball was a pain in the ass too. I hated that game with a passion 😅 I think I got very lucky there.
I hate all minigames in FFX, I'm appreciate your help though, very clearly explained I just can't react fast enough to do it.
Thx Thx Thx your tipps Safe my Life many from them i Know but the Sound to 0 was a Changer
again Thx and Like the Video
i don't know this , unbelievable
After 20 years and played it this year i still manage to nailed it, my trick is just pause, if your eyes got teary pause, i pause every 50 dodge, its easy for me and its working
😁😁😁
I've just got Lulu's celestial weapon, by dodging around the save sphere where I fought against dark Ixion aeon, I dodge the lightning for 50 times and save the game and it's work!!!. the dodges are continue to count after I reload the save.
What country are you in? And what system are you using?
That a new one on me... I spent about an hour dodging saving , reload in 2014 only to find out on internet that you can’t do that. Was there an update that I missed?
We need more information, help this poor souls with more secrets.
Been trying this since the game was new
Thank you for the vid. I did the 200 on ps3. Now i have ps5 and the save didn’t transfer, I’ve been dreading redoing it, using this video for motivation 😭
So quick story; I attempted this challenge one time (not using the crater method cuz i didn't know about it) got to what i thought was 200, but apparently miscounted and was 3 off, so went back to do last 3 and while the screen was still mostly black from entering back into the plains a bolt struck and I wasn't ready for it so it hit me and that is the closest I have ever come to throwing my controller