Emergency call out - Melting Fuseboard
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2022
- Emergency call out to Melting fuse board and fitting our temporary sideboard to get trades up and running with Power
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Hi Nick, I've often found the bus bar not picked up by terminal so arcing under load, for years now used a plastic dental mirror after I put a board in to check behind the terminal....works a treat and only cost a quid ! Worth mentioning it for others to get one
That’s a smart idea mate!!!
Clein do a nice orange dentist mirror
@@rowles13 you could also use a endoscope camera attached to your phone.
I use a make up compact mirror. Clam shell design. The dental type mirror broke for me but mirror is crucial for many jobs.
I got a plastic dentist mirror with a built in led just to make it that bit easier to use, still only about four quid. Already come in handy so many times not just on bus bars but peering into ceilings and behind cupboards too. Never leave home without it now!
Wylex MCBs have no miss tunnel terminals for the busbar connections, a shield closes behind the gap when the screw is tightened. Can’t miss. They also have twin terminal main switch isolator’s for better connections. We sell loads of their gear, contractors are willing to pay a little bit more for safety features like these.
Always wounder why it's not recommended to fit smoke/ heat alarm under stairs when that where the fuse board is located. Then again how hard would it be for the manufacturers to fit a miniature alarm inside there fuse boards.
Ay ? Are you serious ?? That’s just what we need , even more bureaucracy and regs ! Nooooooo. Stop.
intumescent seals would work.
I think the idea is to try and prevent fire in the first place. You can get these glass tubes which go inside the CU. Fire breaks the glass and the gas extinguishes the fire. CJR tested one on his channel.
ruclips.net/video/CTnJskxP_BQ/видео.html
I have often got the DNO out to sort the earthing in that type of situation as those clamps can damage the lead sheathed cables and worst case cause catastrophic failure. I have seen them do a couple of things to remedy from using a continuous force spring to hold on a braid which is terminated into the MET or they have dug up outside and jointed modern concentric cable to the PILC and PME the supply. I think most DNOs will upgrade to PME for free so might be worth enquiring.
As you say being under the stairs is a vulnerable place so I have started to look at fitting a smoke and heat interlinked alarm in the under-stairs cupboard. With the thought that it should give an early warning of a possible situation that you won’t know about until it’s too late. Whilst there is no requirement to do this it would hopefully allow people to get out before the stairs were overcome and impassable.
"most DNOs will upgrade to PME for free..."
Upgrade?! For free ? I think you mean "most DNOs will take any opportunity to downgrade your safety to PME despite the costs to you because it's free for them "
It gives them, for little effort, the chance to abdicate all responsibility for your earthing arrangement and then when you mention the shocking reliability of that system they can point you to the Reg's where it pretty much tells you "ignore and distrust your DNO, drive your own TT rod if you feel that a reliable earth is important to you..."
There are exceedingly good reasons why large parts of the MoD and NHS estates ban TN-C-S as a means of earthing.
@@Dranok1 I guess it all depends on how you view it. The chances are that the house is already effectively being supplied via PME irrespective of current cut-out arrangements, so tidying it up, removing the crappy bonding clamp that is likely to be damaging the PILC cable etc. is an upgrade. Far better to be an honest reflection of the actual supply arrangements than masquerading as something else. And if you can get that done for the customer without them having to fork out a load more cash then I don't really see it as an issue. As it is DNOs do zero routine maintenance to their equipment in people's properties, so PME or TN-S makes little odds.
Saying PME is rubbish because of the changes to BS7671 to add an earth electrode to protect against a known failure mode is odd to me. After all, you can get failures in any system and evolving to add additional protection to mitigate those possible failures is only sensible hence RCDs, SPD, AFDDs etc.
I don't disagree, however, that PME may not be the best option in all cases and it is far easier to decide on your earthing arrangements when you control your own substations, a luxury that homeowners do not have! In my industry, we use IT arrangements quite a lot. I understand that the MOD restrict designers to ensure that cables are sized to keep running temperatures to 50C as it extends the life of the installation and the equipment. This seems a sensible practice and one that isn't considered in a domestic setting where we design to 70C. Perhaps if we considered conductor temperatures more in our domestic design we would stop cooking and burning out things like shower isolators. Rather than installing undersized cables for the load and the installation conditions. But sadly the world is not perfect and cost always drives most of the undesirable system failures in the end.
@@Mark-xr4zt In the situation you first describe, I am very much inclined to agree. But in the last 15 years I've seen one domestic PILC cable, I'm sure no more than a dozen residential ones, and just a few industrial. Whereas a good solid TNS is far more robust it seems, and the single failure mode of "sheath bond broken at roadway during pubic works, fortuitous earth paths still present" is both far less common and immensely less killy than the comparable failure mode of "CNE/PEN conductor broken at roadway, all bonded metalwork now being maintained at line voltage by the neighbours supply."
I am also sympathetic to the rest of your reply. We appear to be on the same wavelength :-)
Great points on the stairs / cupboard.
A sight like that brings it home on just how things can go wrong and lead to a tragic outcome.
That was a close call fair play to the DNO for double checking prior to energising. See the gas meter was placed conveniently in the same cupboard to fuel the fire! I see that style of earth connection a fair bit, but they seem to accept it.
Good job Nick, looking forward to the follow up, loose earth on tns lead sheath I think is quite common come across it a few times but DNO are quick to sort it out, keep up the good work
would test RCD too, not only zs on the tempo board. You're right should give the supplier a call to install correct eathing 👍🏼
So Nick , as the stairs are the fire escape, will you move the Fuse board to a different location, as part of the rewire.
And if it is a fire escape, should the cables not be fire rated?
Wow that consumer unit is in a super bad way! If you can’t Torque the torque, don’t walk the walk. Another great vid for any amateurs or apprentices out there wanting to learn from an expert! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
My old gaffer used have a little fire light on his temp boards incase it trips etc so there was a little light to help. It's a pritty treacherous place house bashing when youve got the boards up ect plumber tips on extension lead, tips the board and has to make it there with no light, it can be a real god send. Love content as always
Great work Nick, 👏🏻 keep your standards high 👌🏻
Soon as you showed that melted RCD I could smell it myself from experience lmao
Great video, decent insight into poor terminations 👍🏻
I've seen TNS earth bonds done with pipe clamps!!
Im in the HVAC industry - see this so often. Make it part of my service to re-tighten all connections on switch geat etc.
Thank you for sharing.
That’s bad. Thanks for sharing this with us take care
Good video Nick, if I'd have had a bit more notice I'd have been happy to pop over and give you a hand, Coventry isn't far from me, keep up the good work!
im going with busbar not in properly and sitting behind, bad that is ive not seen one that bad, crazy how its on the other side of the board from the main switch aswell, good video tho for people to hopefully want there electrics checking and not just thinking if its on its ok, because its not always the case, luckily this was found in time.
Ouchie that's rough Nick! Made me go and pop the cover off on my own unit to check the connections are tight. I'm not a sparky but I'd rather be sure so I can sleep soundly
Nick, can you do a video on what you can fit in your van vault drawers? Cheers.
a big stack of eighties porn mags is one guess ???
Nick, might be worth getting yourself an insulated hex screwdriver instead of the tool check + For years i did the same check out Amazon's 3mm hex T bar.
I thought the same thing when he undid the terminal In the isolator…. Unlikely, but it could be faulty and still at line level.
@@IanFarquharson2 We had a recall on these exact isolators recently with switch not isolating
great fix for temperary board
I had this recently, local council sub contractors had fitted a new split load board and not tightened up the main switch neutral connection and had tightened the line terminal before fitting the busbar!
Under stairs as well. Good job the home owner noticed the smell!
What I'm really curious about is whether those people got penalised for doing a bodge... could've killed someone
There wasn't any stickers on the board to show who installed it and I don't know if the insurance company would do anything?
Southern elec fitted a brass clamp with two brass screw for old tns
Good watch, looks a lot like my setup at home under stairs. Not designed for people 6ft and over
Welcome to Coventry...
I hope your tyres were still on your van
Like a NEW YORK plumber says if your not testing your guessing lol
Dont know wat is worse that board under the stairs, or the fact if it did catch fire the gas main beside it
Looks like the incoming phase conductor was behind the clamp and not in it ,seen far to many times where this has happened either with the breaker or main idolater ,it's about time the industry come up with a better design
Better designs already exist and are used in Germany since 40 years. Look at hagers or Eatons Busbars for example. Also they are Insulated.
The residential boards here in north america don't uses busses like that. Our main breaker is bolted onto the bus bars at the factory and the branch circuit breakers clip into the bus. I've only ever seen one instance of a loose connection heating up on the bus bars, and that was a 125 amp breaker clipped on that was being pulled off by the tension of the bigger 35mm cables.
Incoming phase conductor?! Surely you mean the busbar was behind the clamp on the outgoing side of the main isolator?
Purple (adjustable) loctite should stop the bus bar fasteners loosening themselves while still allowing removal for maintenance work/changes.
when i was an apprentice and when i have been training up young uns i was followed by my spark and i do , double check it takes some time to get the proper tight regardless of the torques , i suggest a DIYer or home owner had installed that or a cowboy with not much time under their belt
also i use metal clads and conduit couplers for a temp board them brickies like to smash around like a bull in a china shop !!!
You can over tighten modern stuff, the biggest problem I found was twisted conductors in square holes. The copper heats up and moves leaving it loose.
Hi Nick, the last few videos I’ve had to turn my to up more than normal!!!! Is your sound ok?
I had a job recently that had the earth clamp used for tns system. Ze reading was fine, believe it was about 0.20 ohms. It’d been noted down on the eicr that it was c3 and the paperwork was satisfactory.
Council turned around and made us go back to put a new TT rod in instead because they didn’t like it.
Seemed excessive to me Tbf.
Out of curiosity nick, would you leave the customer with a temp board in an emergency
Fire kills and so does it's friend smoke! If you're in any doubt about your own electrics, do as the man says and get it checked, inspected and tested. Nice little upload Nick highlighting the shocking things we come across behind closed doors.
I believe you can get little disposable self contained oxygen masks. If I lived above ground level it's definitely something I would be looking at. from memory you get about 5 mins of oxygen.... enough to gtfo.
Erm Nick ! 7:45 That is not your website URL, do you do the interwebz ?
The DNO should really have replaced the earth clamp with a constant force spring clamp but they don't always bother to. Standard BS951 clamps can damage PILC cables and can be potentially unsafe.
Do you love cable smoke detectors in the UK, so why are not one CSD into every cabinet with hazardous equipment, e.g. Harry Potter sleeping room with build-in CU and gas meter? IT-cabinets? Roofs? Specially on the running way to ground floor outside the house if the full house covered inside with flames?
Seen this on recently installed gear, I often wonder if there isn't a better design. For the bus bar.
Crabtree do a board where the breaker fits onto the din rail and by design, slots into a fixed internal busbar. Brilliant design as there's no possibility of missing the busbar. However, very very specific and the breakers are a little expensive
Schneider ikq,
Not just the fuse board under there also the gas meter lovely explosive cocktail
And you use flexibel wires directly into the breaker.We put a thing(i dont know the english name!) on the wires to keep the small wires together to decrease the contact resistance.Otherwise the thin wires spread out in the big hole and a lot of them have no contact at all.
A ferrule?
Nice video 😎
Hi Nick great work again. Love watching these videos . And reading all the comments especially the one about your van with no tires on it in Coventry lol. Plus Have you seen the Instagram request cheers,
Oh Nick, have you got a new bag??🤪😂
Funnily enough the only board I ever saw that melted like that was also a Volex
So to prevent the thin wires to spread out in the big hole to prevent that a lot off the thin wires dont have contact and so the resistance is to high.
Yet another reason to just have WAGO make fuseboards. Imagine a low contact resistance spring loaded terminal with a screw latch to prevent it being easily flicked off. It will NEVER get loose.
This already exists and it is used in Germany. There are multiple Designs from Hager for example.
@@hjkglpojh1863 i was britglish trying to say britbong needs to import more wago items THEY'RE SO GOOD HHHNNNN, a lot of german standards are good, including water supply, valves, electrics, and even tools
Why have you used a Henley block ? You could have gone from the RCD/main switch unit straight into the double pole isolator, less connections
It means he can easily provide longer tails to his temp board if necessary.
@@stupot_64 true, but you can have longer tails from the RCD/main switch unit 2-3mts ?. You are always going to position the temp socket board near to the mains.
How often should an EICR be done? would annually be complete overkill?
It's recommended that you have an EICR done every 10 years if you own your property (or when it's sold). If it is rented then it is now required every 5 years or at change of tenants.
Rental properties get done every 5 years so probably a good example.
why not men your temp board?
Hi nick,
Would not leave bonding clamp on which I think it is correct me if im wrong, which are designed for service pipes, which in my opinion makes it none compliant. Could be knocked or tampered with affecting the zs in the future also, came across this before. Western power came out and changed it to a PME and at another job they re-sweated it on. However they do charge the guys that fitt smart meters do not really have a clue, and are not electrcians. They have limted electrical knowledge, as a few i have spoke to are gas engineers by trade, and they are not the DNO. They are your energy provider. The (DNO) is the company that owns and operates the power lines. The DNO in my area of birmingham is western power, (but your energy supplier could be utilita for example) but it depends on were you are in the uk on who your DNO is.
Ze not zs*
Anybody know where where in regs books it states to try to avoid putting consumer units under-stairs please? I would love a excuse to not put consumer units there.
Makes sense. Last thing I want on fire is the stairs
I don't think there is a specific reg for a domestic premises. For commercial and lets etc, they are required to have a fire risk assessment, so it would likely be commented on that the escape route could be blocked.
@@three-phase562 would also make sure the staircase is suitably protected for the required amount of fire protection.
@@three-phase562 Can't find anything explicit about stairs - which may be because I'm not looking in the right places - but Building Regs Approved Document M part 1 does specify that CU placement must "assist people who have reduced reach" (secs 1.18, 2.30 & 3.44) including min-max heights which probably means under stairs no is no longer an acceptable site. The regs apply to new builds but not alterations / repacements of existing installations.
Why do you need a regulation to make you do it? Recommend to the customer what you consider a safe way to do it.
Ironically there’s a recall on some Volex mcbs, would of ended up a board change sooner or later
WOW.
It's funny watching a lot of you UK 🇬🇧 sparks have gotten me to check my panel and retorque the breaker terms every now and than and I'm in the states where having eicr testing is unheard of.
And yes I've even done the power mains and that is nerve racking as we AMERICANS don't believe in insulated tools lol
I got so much abuse on Reddit a couple weeks back suggesting you guys use insulated tools lol
@@WilsonCarefree we do have them just not as commen to use them like using wagos over wirenuts (although I never liked wirenuts I was told to use copper crimps with plastic sleeves
I think regardless of country or regulations/codes, imho it's a matter of common sense to use insulated tools on electrics,
@@lawrencetasker212 +1 This. Why would you not ???
@@rmorris8544 added cost and conveyance of not having to find them not popular thing in the states so the Yankee thrifty sense if cost more and is more work not worth it lol
Slack wires cause fires 🔥
Oh I love the smell of burning plastic first thing in the morning
That is the first time I have ever seen a gas meter inside a building. Is it normal in that area or other areas to have the gas meter inside?
A lot of flats have a meter cupboard where the gas meter is situated. Mine is off the hallway, the other side of the wall to the distribution board.
@@grayhalf1854 Huh, the more ya know. Thanks for taking the time to respond
Our housing trust told me unless there is a fault there is no need for them to do a EICR even though the sticker on the front of the unit is out of date by 5 years
The problem I have with AFDD's , they wouldn't pick that fault up because the fault would be before the AFDD'S
Only use crabtree starbreaker DBs. All other DBs with pin busbars are shit.
The reason the DNO leave the earth like that is because legally they don’t have to provide a earth to a dwelling. The incoming earthing has now become down to the electrician.
Im known for taking risks, an that damage I've seen before way more than once.
I used to do that quite regularly with bitcoin miners, 100 amps worth on a 120amp feed. That looks a lot like OVERLOAD baby. Sustained high currents.
Would an AFDD have caught this?
I wonder if this means it is time for BigClive to make another Part P/NICEIC Rant.
low volume on this one struggling to hear
i reckon the busbar was on the wrong side of the terminal. That is a serious amount of melting.
Your website link under MY LINKS leads to a very odd site, it's not yours mate, could you put it right.
Weak wrists ny the previous installer.
That's why all terminals need to be torqued.
That could have gone bad quick
2:11 hmm very bubbly
Used to see way too many of those very poor clamps around the cable not good should be totally outlawed
Melting fuseboard. Sounds like my gonads last week mate.
Loose wires cause fires.
Hey nick not trying to be funny but if you take the electric meter away can the electric company charge you 😂🤣
Ah Volex very much the BG of it's day. A builders special, cheap, fully loaded and ready assembled. Looks like the buss bar was never in the clamp of the main switch and the builder or homeowner never checked when they bodged it in 🤡🐔
What's up Nick
Very dangerous
Volex boards are poor they have flimsy bus bar as well
Fried eggs anyone
So you have 237 volts,and breakers for 40 amp!Why o why do you need 40 amps breaker??We in the Netherlands have all the breakers for 16 amps and it works fine!And also 237 volts!
Rarely we install a breaker for 20 amps,but thats it,not higher!
Guess you enjoy Luke warm showers and small cookers 😂😂. You must use breakers above 20a on heating loads.
CU surrounded by wood, in a wood cupboard, under a wooden staircase…. What’s not to like. It’s even got a built in grill. Bargain 😂.
Stupid thumbnail. Goodbye.
Nick, electrical panels in the US cannot be installed in any type of closet- other than a dedicated electrical closet- 90 percent of what i see in your videos would be completely illegal in the US or Canada