Why DUAL SPEARS are a PROBLEM - Elden Ring Controversy
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Elden Ring has many different types of weapons and builds, but one particular type of weapons DOMINATE PvP completely and those are PIERCE DAMAGE WEAPONS. They get TONS of benefits that strike or slash weapons don't get. And double Cross-Naginatas abuses this, making it the PERFECT build.
Today, Ranni teaches you everything about damage types, counter bonus damage, spears and the controversy behind thrusting weapons in PvP.
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![PC Master Race Explained in 9 minutes [Animated]](/img/1.gif)
I know, I know... I forgot about the STANDARD damage type
How would you nerf these setups though?
Make them hit like a Honda accord instead of a 8x2 truck
Remove tracking from pierce attacks like they did in Dark Souls 2. That would be a good tradeoff for having counter damage.
Power stance doing half the poise damage. Keep the power but it better kill me when trading otherwise I gonna use hyperarmor
Make it attack slower
Remove every other weapon from the game there is no point to playing anything else if it can't compete so, so simply don't lets players use other things.
whats sad is if you only equip 1 naginata it has hands down the coolest spear moveset
Yep
Your a true connoisseur ❤ I feel the same, I also do cosplay and I suck. So I'm extra salty
One spear: classy
Two spears: barbaric
And also one of the harder weapons to make use of...
@@vitorvena nah, one spear with like a medium shield is sexy af
In every Elden Ring PVP players nightmare, they see double Naginata in their sleep. They will always see them.
It's easy to deal with if you bait it.
its a good setup but not hard to beat imo. My personal nightmare is tanky bois that 2h a 1h thrusting sword and black knife aow on switch which always seems to tag me even if i dodge perfectly
BUT NOT FOR ME :)
@@MRBABABOI4090star fist with bleed+ endure/leveled up arcane plus the bleed talisman(i dont remember the name)
And ofc the rot winged,amber medallion+2 and turtle one to recover faster your stamina to catch them when they will be at 1 hp
i just use a single Cross-Naginata on a normal/quality build. i like the moveset of it in that version; it's very cool, and fits stylistically with many of the builds i make.
I just now realized....
Ranni is drinking a cup of your cerulean tears...
Fuck thats good.
In duels, I typically see dual spears, 2h thrusting weapons, greatswords and casters. Rarely ever see the slower stuff, like axes, hammers and colossals. I see shields even less than above.
From messing around with many weapons in the arena, my guess is bc they're a lot harder to use in a braindead way. To be effective with colossals I gotta break out all my mixups and get tricky with these boys. If you aren't really good you'll just be swinging at air while getting styled on
I only see a few setups :
Dual nagis
Spinning slash spam with your nagakiba/BKG/IG
Backpeddaling casters that spam moonveil when you get bored
Epileptic dual greatspears users (very skilled (real))
The one dude that thinks the frog head is a replacement for a sense of humor
Thats all pvp has to offer outside of ganking and bornfire duelists
Ultra Greatsword user here, and yes it is true that slower weapon users are few and far between but when I do get to duel another, I will gladly partake in the unga bunga
@@NoNono-o3h this lmfao only thing I would add is the serpent hunter abusers that would be scary if they didn't suck
@@mist-hoparcaniner-leobrain6256 i was thinking of adding it but I've only really seen it used to kill afk farmers
I honestly will never understand how they thought it was a good idea to make powerstanced attacks FASTER than normal attacks...
They're not.
It's the running attack spam.
If you try to press l1 you will always lose to a 1 handed r1 if poise isn't affecting anything
@zytha2890 2:36
Explain this, then.
@@TheTraveler980 He's not the brightest...
Only people with no appreciation for the game use double spears. It’s a boring play style also for PvP
@@MenmaNamikaze23 Honestly its just one of the many styles that completely breaks the flow of the fight, other styles can literally no engage in actual fighting or a few ones that remove half of the skillset for engaging by denying you the ability to defend yourself or go on the offensive...
I am by no means a fromsoft newbie. When ER came out I was keen to begin my hooligan antics with invasions at low levels as I usually do, hoping my ( and most players at the time ) inexperience would make for some fun encounters. My first real invasion was into a twink who had two cross-naginata and literally one shot me. That's when I knew shit was going to be wild
This is why i stopped playing this game entirely. I was already fed up with the same copy spammed AOE bosses, so every 2nd invader being some min/max 2-shot insta stunlock madness proc sweat build didnt help. Never touching this again. I just hope for a Bloodborne 2 or anything better than this circusshow.
When you're listening to the vid at work and the edits are still hilarious even if you can't see them because of the sound effects 😂
*comically loud hand crack*
@@calibula95 *massive reverberating fart*
the best counter is ALT+F4
ruclips.net/video/PJFSYY82NtI/видео.html
Nameless White Masks: Are you sure about that? *Dies to Blistered Dog and Crow gank squad*
7:08 "You will very rarely see them in invasions or duels"' Yeah, sure....
I've only seen them once or twice in recent months amidst many invasions.
If they can slow colossal sword crouch poke they can slow duel spear running attack
The entire dual spears moveset is problematic. The Gugs nerfs worked bc the rest of the moveset is not braindead
So Dragonbolt blessing a spell taught by the dragons to humans give a boost to hardness huh ?
Yeah Vyke ain't beating the scalie allegations
Tip: counter this set up with quick step rapier spam (no seriously try it)
Quickstep is brutally nerfed. I don't think that works anymore
This is true
They are too fast, even reverse quickstep doesn't work half the time
@@OnlyWaifuYT double spears have a very thin hitbox, you dont necessarily have to i frame it just step it and counter. Also if they do a running l1 you can jump time it into an R2 if you're using a larger weapon
@@OnlyWaifuYT try out poison great thrusting swords in arena, that would be a hilarious video. Add finger print shield and it's a recipe for true cancer. 2 running r2s to poison on meta level if you use poison weapon AOW
You know what infuriates me? Its how when one handing/powerstancing long weapons the character completely ignores weight and gravity by holding it by the back end tip instead of ATLEAST TRYING to grip it closer to the middle... this would make sense and as a result nerf the range of one handed spears giving incentive to two hand where yoy would get back that range by having one hand back at the end and the other one closer to the middle allowing the character to fully push the wepon foward during trusting attacks...
I liked using dual red lighting dragon spears in the past until it started to feel really gross in pvp
You mean powerstancing bolt of gransax
@@DaPerfecto57🖐️🤓
@@fawazahmed4978🤡👈
I'm just here to get roasted by Ranni....
She called me her little kfc bucket (the racism hurts so good😩😩😩😩)
No dlc no women
@@moonwalk2005bro ?
It's really a neckbeard in his moms basement with a voice changer😂
@@David-sc5kfdown bad. I'm here for the info
I used to struggle with dual spear, but reverse bloodhound step into backstab is the ultimate counter to dual spear L1 spammers.
Nobody brings it up, but the first, and second, parts of bloodhound finesse can dodge things pretty well. If you time it right, bloodhound finesse can put you directly behind the enemy immediately.
@@nathanstoughton ruclips.net/video/0UMStWb48mk/видео.htmlsi=h90yRzv5sFBGmhcr this is the technique I'm talking about
Just played Dark Souls 2 yesterday. Remembered that everything had counterdamage, just thrusting weapons had the most and that sweet spot damage kind if balanced spears. Don't know why they got rid of those systems. It feels like they would help with balance in ER.
I died by a 2 spear guy, he yea bagged me, and then messaged me I should quit because I suck, I was only using a torch
I block tbagers and down pointers
my favourite blue doll is back again to step on me
4:13 ha that little fart is way funnier than it should be
I wonder how useful talismans that gave more defense against specific physical damage types would be, like how the drake talismans reduced specific elemental damage. Maybe then pierce attacks wouldn't be such an issue? I dunno
I am one of the lucky ones who can say that they have never encountered a double naginata in PVP (thank god)
Dear fingers, I just want the twin axe moveset from ds3 back
my first pvp experience in elden ring was a dude with dual naginatas.
i wasnt so eager to play pvp after that
Black flame tornado build when
Please stop referring to me as fast food items
"Never "
I would just increase the start-up frames of dual-wielding spears and lower those frames for one-handed spear use... basically trade attack speeds.
If I remember correctly, the Naginata has the best damage of any spear (at least, when infused and built right). The slower speed of it’s normal moveset and higher stamina consumption were seemingly meant to compensate for this. It’s slower and uses more stamina than the other spears. But when you dual wield them, only the stamina usage matters because the dual spear moveset is the same speed regardless of the spears used. That makes the Naginatas just as fast as any other when dual wielded, but also with that extra damage AND intrinsic bleed. Just another reason that they are OP.
I wish they hadn’t nerfed shields in PvP so badly, because using a shield in PvP feels pretty bad. Hyper aggressive dual wielders should have viable counters, and I don’t think anyone should have to use the absolute heaviest shield (fingerprint) just to counter the dual naginatas. A normal greatshield should do. Using lighter greatshields (spiked palisade) and some medium shields has surprised me with how absolutely flimsy my guard feels. I get my guard broken so easily in PvP. You just have to use it really strategically and not rely on it too much, because it just won’t save you from aggressive players.
I'm a 2 handed greatshield as a weapon enjoyer
Trust me, its better that way no one wants a turtle meta, turtles are as annoying as dual spears crouch spammers.
@@mulhollanddrivehobo6910turtles rely on their ability to take massive amounts of damage though, probably can still deal damage but isn't as built for that because of points into vigor, endurance, and vitality. There are ways to get around shields or really high defense and poise, but not an easily exploitable way to get basically infinite damage
With that sick two handed move set I reckon this should have been in the halberd class and done a bit more poise damage
I played my first run with the Vulgar Militia Saw on a quality build (not the Arcane status variety). Malenia frustrated me so much, I pulled out the Mimic Tear and Gransax/Nagi. I beat her first try with that setup and finished the rest of the game with my Militia Saw.
I feel no shame.
I did a NG+7 run with dual Inquisitor Girandoles and got her first try, even with my 1500hours in Elden Ring she always kills me at least 10 times on NG+7 with any other build.
You are woman who’s trash at the game. Most women aren’t good at videogames
@5:52
Random Scottish AI Momentum
Also, hot take: strike damage should've been the one to get the counterhit bonus, not the pierce one.
I think that one of the most insulting things about this absolute bullcrap OP status of double spears is that using the spears like that you would be hardly able to properly put force into your attack. As a proper spear thrust gets its force from the rotation of the torso, just like a proper punch.
Dual spears are just the new "Helixtodon" from DkS2 (Powerstance Helix & Mastodon Halberd)
From just keeps on doing the same old same old
Isn't standard the 4th phys dmg type?
"Standard" is an infusion type or more in regards to PURE physical, not a physical damage type per se
As a PVE only scrub. It’s wild to watch weapons get OP/nerfed in PvP, personally I’m pretty annoyed that my PvE experience gets disrupted because people play like degenerates in PvP.
You know it's been a while since From introduced the "pvp exclusive balance adjustements" so that pvers woudn't complain about their favorite L2 stick getting nerfed
Homie is gonna shit his pants when he discovers most changes are pvp exclusive
SHIELDS! DO SHIELDS PLZ!!! (and how they are nearly unusable in pvp, besides parry)
fingerprint shield with blood infusion 1 shots 50 vig on the ash of war. pretty busted imo
@@VMVMV202that's just shield crash letting you feel like a proper bleed build for 40 seconds, not the shield itself
@@NoNono-o3h fingerprint shield procs madness and bleed at the same time from 1 ash of war that's why it one shots. No other shield has that utility of direct damage status effects.
@@VMVMV202 probably palisade
But my point stands, the strong part is the statys effects, shields on their own arent that good
@@VMVMV202 1. It's pretty slow so good luck hiting with it. 2. most ppl run 60 vig 3.I get it that there are like 1 or 2 gimiky shields that can be used for attacking, but that's not what shields should do. You should be able to block with them. But now 2 zweihander pokes guard breaks you. They've turned them from something viable where you could get amazing trades by managing your stamina well into a joke. And there were a ton of ways to deal with them, but the pea brains kept complaining about how they couldn't just R1 spam their way through and they nerfed them into oblivion.
You see, i use this spear... Two handed, by itself.
Only thing i put on it is the dagger quickstep.
Supplement with a longsword with wild thrust to feel like a slower devil may cry character. Wish that attack came out faster... the idea behind it is so cool.
It would be nice to see it's PS moveset changed to something less op. It would be nonsense to nerf the damage on PSS alone so a moveset change or nerfing of recovery time seems the best. Nerfing overall PS damage could be nice but I'm sure it would kill many PS weapon classes.
I wanna dual poker swords with the main hand being placidusax's sword for the fun of it.
the best counter is a incantation that makes body have yellow lighting, also dual wield straight swords with lighting infusions and broggart roar on each sword is probably the best weapons for duel , you can swap into the ash of war that gives you poise and deffences for sword period of time on main hand
Catch flame is good against them too. Their insectoid brain explodes when they realise they cant spam out of hitstun against it even with that insane speed.
You use the cross naginata because it’s OP.
I use the cross naginata to cosplay sword saint Isshin.
We are not the same.
I just like the particularly pestering piercing poking Partizan.
Hell yeah. I just really hate how the partizan looks in elden for some reason , but it's a great weapon. Very fun and most people have no clue what the hell you have
This is literally everyone’s build at lvl 200 + and then proceed to teabag you when they kill you thinking they got sKilL
Fuck, my soda was frozen
I might use it in invasions on my bleed build tbh. Every invasion is basically a gank and they teabag you after 🤷♂️
Yes do whatever it takes to make those maidenless scrubs put their foolish ambitions to rest everytime you kill a host you make world a better place 😂
True and real.
Don't do it.I play with the tongue on full time.Its nice to see a invader who isn't using meta weapons and pointing down after.
@@Superluminal_30000 You Hosts all try to gank and have the nerve to ask for sportsmanship? XD
@@gokublack8342 the obvious implication was that he was playing solo but way to prove his point lmao
Powerstance naginatas poked me so hard I lost my healthbar in real life or some other anime trope idk
The only honest way to use them is in a marrionette cosplay.
Um actually, theres also standard damage. Madam.
Players love using Bloodhound Step with those, to counter as with that bs behavior, use pike, bleed, and Ash Of War Stormcaller, since Stormcaller gives hyper armor, they will be caught in it regardless how heavy their armor is, to make them unable to escape it, you could also use the Ancient Death Rancor spell to bait them to coming towards you
I agree with everything 1000%, but had a good chuckle at “mastering PSGS crouch spam” as if it isn’t just spamming one button while moving. Play with psgs for 10 minutes and bam you’ve nailed the muscle memory down. And I’m being generous calling it muscle memory.
Just used this with my bleed build and put the blood tax Ash of War on it. Its tigers bleed so fast, and it deletes enemies in both pve and pvp without enemies getting close. I had no idea they were that great since all of the videos I said they were terrible.
idk why i cant play at colosseum, my level is in metta but the wait time takes 100 hours to find a player :(
That's odd... do you play on PC?
Have you unlocked all 3 colosseums and are you mainly trying to cue for duels?
@@OnlyWaifuYT I play on PC and it's rare if it takes more than 10 seconds to find someone to play against
Same here@@miguelnascimento2847
@@OnlyWaifuYT i play on ps5
You should do a lighting build with these would be interesting to see
I wanted to do a lightning build so I went for double Bolt of Gransax, now I feel bad.
Insane that I can pick out the macalania wood theme instantly in any video it’s in
1:18 if you think about it, historically spears were the earliest weapons, sorts of hard to make spears are easy to replace cheap and very effective. You can throw them to.
I’d like to see the double spear method get a load of the Dual Curved Greatsword Method. Twin Beastman’s Curved Greatsword, one with Seppuku, other with Royal Knight’s resolve(with bleed). Claw talisman, Lord of Blood talisman, Great Jar, and Erdtree talismans. No spells needed, but optional buff spells.
6:55 fucking AVGN, classic.
Always fun to roll out & when they do the stab & then parry as soon as the roll finishes
Because it always catches them (in my experience)
I used a naginata whit a uchigatana to make a isshin sword saint build
There is a reason the spear was called the king of melee weapons historically :) tho irl naginatas are more like glaives, not really spears x)
Im pretty sure I started this build trend back when elden ring first released. In those times when so many people were running exploits & broken builds this was the counter.
Hmm if I had to nerf these setups, Id probably introduce a dex requirement near equivalent to that of Dual Wielding two Heavy Weapons for wielding two spears. Id also probably remove the tracking from the dash attack.
actually there are FOUR types of physical dmg. “Physical” counts as its own dmg type, the other three aren’t subtypes, despite the From stat screens always making it look like that
Ok so one of the best counters to PSS that worked for me is quick step on a thrusting sword you can literally quick step into the atk and poke them to death and get out of there range before they can hit you because the recovery times on Spears is slower then thrusting swords and there's a thrusting sword that takes little to no stat investment called the nobles estoc that pretty much every single build can use this set up was also good against PSW I always carry a estoc with quick step but that was before patch 1.10 no one uses them anymore so I can't test if quick step is actually truly nerfed to oblivion
That Feel Good Inc cover in the intro was great lmao
Anyone know the name of the artist?
Anthony Vincent!
Meanwhile I only use one and put Black Flame Tornado on.
I was playing with power without even realizing.
I want onlywaifu to do a talk about final fantasy 10. Everytime I watch a video I find myself asking where is that music from and why does it make me feel like I am missing something. I think you would have alot to say about it.
I'd love to. But I'd have to replay it again and I just don't have the time now, sadly...
I also find it really difficult to time parries correctly with pierce attacks.
Try that dual naginata against the dual Zimmerman and songbird armored core meta
lance with lightning infusion + spear talismen + shard of alexander + repeating thrusts + Lightning Scorpion Charm, is my favorite build rn
You know, any time I see a complaint about PvP balance all i can really think is, "Did you not play any of this companies games? The entire point is fighting the next insurmountable challenge after the next." You're supposed to loose horribly to completey unfair circumstances. Thats basically the mission statement of the dev team.
Yes, so why is only one player being challenged? Both should feel the challenge because they're both playing a game about insurmountable odds. They themselves cannot be the insurmountable odd
In my experience, the best counter to dual spear the dual spear users themselves. I tend to be very stupid when I play pvp, but I've met my match against a dual pike user trading into fully charged quarian grandeur on Terra Magica. Less prominent examples include runing headfirst into swarms of flies or volcano pots, getting caught by beast claws and one instance of landing lifesteal fist three times in a row.
I think a good counter is jump attacks and also incantation/sorcery counters
Bro, you should make a video on meta level and how people view overleveled players,
I trade into them with str greatsword HA (higher flat DEF) with boiled crab active and pray they don’t have spear talisman. Trades are foul but you get the priority for a follow up.
Honestly I feel like Powerstance war spears with madness proc is just a tad more annoying
Ngl I kinda miss the other Ranni with a mug picture
When a Dual wielding cross naginatas roll catches you: this is when the fun begins
You forgot standard damage 😧
Its a shame really, my favorite type of build in ds2 became so hated in elden ring.
As a Whip user primarily I find that Whips can act in some ways as a small counter due to the slight range advantage and new poise changes. But the problems arise when you have to trade in any way, as whips deal paltry damage in comparison to spears, but at least you can proc status effects like posion a bit easier. It's definitely still a heafty up-hill battle, but it can still catch spear users off guard when you space right and out range them, that is until they pull out Pikes, well then you're just screwed lol. At least I'll die looking badass like Juno Hoslow in that situation!
I told a friend of mine about the bull that is 2 spears and now he spams them at me everytime then try’s to say how it’s completely fair and I’m supposed to just get around it, meanwhile he’ll quit out if he dies once to a dual spear player
I’ve been enjoying strait sword with off hand spear. Fun mix up. With a soft swap parry shield 🛡️
Elden Ring pvp is just one big hot steamy mess, for the most part.
Using a certain weapon because it’s good: 🤡
Using a weapon because it’s cool: 🗿
>one of the coolest movesets
>Relegated to being half of a set for people keenly familiar with the taste of their uncles nether regions
Meta players are a blight
Hey guys, this video came out on my birthday!
Considering the fact that pokey sticks have always been the most reliable, easy-to-use, easy-to-make weapon in the ancient warfare (even in modern warfare when the time is right), this is pretty understandable :D
Naginata is one of my favorite weapons, i use bloodflame spell with it to give it that extra bleedyness. Probably has one of the best moveset. IMO the best ash on a naginata is "blood tax" it does a bunch of stabby stabs and each hit heals, and this stacks with the swaddling cloth so you can get 20%+ HP from a single series of 5 stabs
You also can't roll a bloodflame bleed proc's damage so there's that jank on top.
Wouldn’t parrying be good against this? I mean if your opponent is spamming one move over and over why not pull out the buckler?
Question. What would happen if we threw the ice spear ash of war into the equation? Would it better or worst the setup?
7:06 literally 70% of arena fights are against double spear users
I don't play PvP anymore but GOD, how I love these videos 😂
I personally counter things in close-range by using the endure weapon art. Even before the duration buff, people legit do not expect a guy in light/medium armor to be able to out-trade you in a clash of hits
even patches uses a single spear with a shield. he knows it's power is too much.
0:09 how did you transition from running attack into poke so quickly ?