Well, that's what's going to happen much of the time. There have been many times when I've found the heel more likable than the face, or even thought the heel was justified in opposing the face. But since I can't cheer the heel or boo the face, I have no choice but to just sit and watch in exasperated silence.
Stevie is the man. He never gave himself enough credit. I know he's a humble guy and I know he wasn't an absolute top guy in the "big" companies but he really was a great wrestler and heel. I agree Stevie, most of the guys in AEW look more like fans, or like they've never been in a fight before. They don't look intimidating or like they could really beat anyone up (Jack Perry, Orange Cassidy as prime examples). I really love the show Stevie.
Yeah take away the boom and there is not much else but he is better being a heel a he can do a good promo,aew has plenty of talent but tony cant book his way out of a paper bag and gives way too much creative freedom,mox and jericho being prime examples.
@huh8662 only difference is in nXt he was over for the Undisputed Era's banging theme as well as his wrestling ability. Since going over to AEW that has now changed to just his theme.
MJF kicked the Devil Adam Cole in the nuts and threw the mask in the audience at Double or Nothing that was the end of devil story. But why bring back Adam Cole as baby face could there not to heels that hate each other in a storyline?
@@petebagwell6666 Lots of wrestling storylines are inconsistent if you think about it hard enough, some have argued that Ripley and Priest deserved to be betrayed.
I am glad that I'm not the only one who was confused as to why Adam Cole is angry at MJF and how Cole is supposed to be a face. It kinda reminds me of the Ussos suddenly reuniting after being apart so long, but WWE is taking its time to make sure it makes sense and goes somewhere.
@@djdonald243 it makes sense in the idea that Cole was always the babyface and MJF was always the heel,although the devil reveal and betraying MJF was a heel move it was done as he knew MJF would ultimately betray him as he had teased it many times during and MJF said himself he betrays them before they do,maybe if Cole hadn't needed time out it may have been played out in a better way but this is how I saw the basic outline of the story
@@alexandermontejo447 that how i saw the whole deal as mjf was always teasing turning on cole,cole did the same before finally going through with it,it was never a true face and heel program and the injuries also caused plenty of issues with what they may have wanted to do also
AEW ruined this storyline, but another commentor on a recent video on the Adam Cole and MJF feud on an AEW video on RUclips said that AEW should have Adam Cole express regret over screwing over MJF and now wanting to slay the monster he "created." The Undisputed Kingdom should turn on him while he seeks redemption. I completely agree with that commentor. If AEW did that, they could salvage this storyline. Right now, the story makes no sense at all. The way the story is currently being presented to audiences is so poorly executed that I would go so far as to say it's insulting to the intelligence of AEW viewers.
The best way to fix things now would be to have MJF take over the Undisputed Kingdom and have them all turn against Cole. That's what I wanted to happen from the moment MJF turned heel three months ago.
@SeasideDetective2 That would be a good idea! MJF could then reclaim his Devil persona, fully embrace his heel status, and make the Undisputed Kingdom far more successful under his leadership than it was under Adam Cole's leadership.
About AEW booking week to week: I’ve been saying for a while now that Tony Khan basically had everything booked from the first pay-per-view up through Adam Page winning the world title ahead of time. If you look at AEW’s booking after Adam Page won the world title, it’s like they don’t know what to do with their storylines. The fact that it’s now confirmed that they book week to week seems to confirm that theory for me.
The question is how does someone book a consistent show for 3 years with it all planned out and now he does the Vince thing of booking week to week? He legit books the show the day before the show most of the time. That's terrible and has been proven to not work in wrestling. You need long term plans/concepts to build on week to week. WWE now does that all the time, Bianca and Jade were literally put together just so they can have a singles feud. That's how you build stories. Why would TK get so arrogant to change his system?
@@blablablaa14 I don't think Bianca and Jade are together exclusively for the eventual feud. It's beneficial for Jade to be with somebody more experienced that she can learn from, and to help hide her shortcomings. Plus Bianca and her whole I have a really long wig gimmick was already tired, so it freshens her up a bit too. But, I do understand what you're saying here.
@@hwogrillo Yes there are other good reasons, but obviously the plan is one of them turning on the other which is a huge money match for them and has been planned long time ahead, which is what AEW should have done with Jade and basically wasted all her dream matches by being so sure she will be there forever. Same for Sting, same for Cody, same for Danielson. We get like 20% of the matches we should have with this roster and that's not how AEW should work. We should be getting 100% of the matches we want
@@blablablaa14 I agree, with that. I the case of Sting or Danielson I can see it since the time left for them in the ring was/is pretty limited. But they constantly waste supposed dream matches just for the sake of having them, rather than having it make any sort of logical sense. They're stepping over dollar bills to pick up dimes.
@@hwogrillo Yeah it was pretty limited and they didn't push on those stories to finish them. We are never getting Sting vs Cody, never getting Omega vs Danielson in a decisive win, we aren't getting Jade vs Britt. Those are matches they had years to do and decided not to so they can have Sting spend his career with Darby and Danielson can waste time fighting every midcarder in AEW
The worst part is their fans can’t even take the “criticism” and atleast acknowledge it and consider making changes…they just want to call you a hater/every name in the book and continue to enable it 🤷♂️
Because he's not a traditional heel, he's a Tweener Like Ric Flair was. A Tweener is a popular Heel. I think they should flip him though, Max SHOULD be the Face that does Heel things to win.
@@kurtanglerookieyear I think that's a great way of putting it. By himself, dude doesn't look like a threat at all. Guys too lazy to go to the gym and look more intimidating, if he looked like more of an athlete I think people would like him better
The mindset with AEW, and their fans, is this: 1-No one will ever get tired of anything no matter how much they see it and 2-There are no negative consequences to booking. Bad booking only exists in WWE. Every outcome in AEW is either neutral or beneficial to all parties involved. 3-Heels and babyfaces don't matter (per Meltzer even). It can change week to week. As long as they get "good matches", everything else isn't important. 4-No one's size is an advantage or a disadvantage. It's believable for anyone to be competitive with anyone.
@@david-p8e6o I wouldn’t say that, I just think a lot of mf’s live on Twitter, but even for the videos I’ve created, I’ve had a few AEW fanboys go stupid in my comments but nothing major to how some of these guys display it.
@@hartfantomit's not that serious, people be taking one comment that is like "wow I actually like aew and i'm not complaining about x or y" for some kind of alienation when in reality it is simply someone enjoying the moment.
I don't get it if you're on national TV and you basically wrestle in speedos. You think working out would be a big part of your life. It's an image business.
Just have Adam Cole blame MJF for missing almost 2 years of action. Also have Adam blame MJF for Britt Baker leaving him (Kayfabe or not). Thats how it should have been presented.
Good point, MJF is in his third heel run in less than six years, counting his pairing with Cody as a babyface run. For comparison's sake, the double turn at WrestleMania 13 was the first time Brett turned heel since he was in the Hart Foundation, and the only time Austin turned at all besides the infamously poor invasion run.
@@ch46745 CallMeCrazy is right. He is talking about the double turn where Austin went Babyface. BEfore that, he'd always been a heel (at least basically always where people would remember). Though he is forgetting the "Vince and Austin" heel run after WMX7, which started BEFORE the invasion (and, imho, shouldn't be considered to be quite the same since he turned on Vince to join the INvasion). ANd that heel run at least was very funny.
I'm starting to think that AEW turn people heel or face for no other reason than that they have quotas to fill based on how many of each type they have at the moment. They're obviously going by the seat of their pants, not giving too much thought to what should happen next. Aside from Adam Cole, one of the most recent examples is Anna Jay. She turned heel earlier this year to join the Outcasts, did almost nothing with them, went to Japan for a while, and now she's come back and she's suddenly a face again.
MJF was still heel when him and Cody were friends, he'd act nice to Cody's face, then talk crap when Cody would go on somewhere. He always hated Brandi and The Bucks.
The Swerve/Adam Page switch made perfect sense, no "excuse" needed. This situation is different and is rightfully criticized. I think your bias is showing a bit, Stevie.
The Adam Cole injury was at the Grand Slam show last year. That was the same show where Moxley got hurt either at the beginning of the match or later, depending on how you look at it.
I appreciate the honest with Stevie Richards as an experienced Pro-Wrestler. Adam Cole Vs MJF was doomed from the start. AEW is walking pinata at a birthday party. 🤦🏾♂️
I agree, though this is also nothing new with pro wrestling booking. The worst offender I think is still when Gene Snitsky was the heel for accidentally causing Lita's miscarriage, and Kane was treated as the babyface, a grieving father who lost the child he was supposed to have. Were we supposed to forget that Lita was only pregnant because she was kidnapped and r@ped by Kane??
I fully agree with Stevie and I feel the same right now about this developing Cody/KO feud. We're supposed to be booing KO because he turned heel but in all honesty, I love Cody but in principle he's the reel heel between the two of them and KO is being treated unfairly but being presented as the heel.
you know i never even thought about it until you brought it up... Adam cole was the heel, he was the bad guy, even when he came back a few months ago. Now it's all turned around, weird af... thats the cokey tony kahn booking. 6:55 "assume, ass u n me" Wow thats so good i never heard that 😐
I think this is just making the best of a tough situation, I agree completely there's not a satisfying reason why he's face but the year long injury completely derailed the angle. MJF turned heel because the face run had run its course and he's an amazing heel, so by default Cole has to be face if they want MJF-Cole. Think Page has been awesome since the swerve feud started, just what was needed.
Personally I think there is a bigger story here being told. Daniel Garcia stayed on with AEW and fans thought he would go to WWE. Then he is placed in with MJF and now Adam Cole. I think MJF and Cole are swerving us and are actually still working together as a heel faction under Undisputed Kingdom. If done right they can push Garcia and who ever faces them as a huge baby face. It will also help make sense of all the chaos going on in this story. My hope is they are going to tell a good story that is just messy at this point but has the potential to all tie together. Maybe giving Tony and the bookers too much credit but I am at least willing to watch it play out before jumping all over it. One thing WWE does well is Easter Eggs with in there story lines, which get people talking. If AEW can do this with this story they will make this story work and make people big baby faces in there story much like the bloodline story.
Nah, while Adam Page seems to be a face/heel revolving door or I think he's meant to be a tweener but doesn't have enough to pull it off. Topped off by having a lot of random absences and getting dragged into the Bucks shenanigans, And Swerve mostly did a sort of organic babyface turn after the first feud (ending in the Texas Deathmatch with the blood drinkign stuff) while feuding with Joe (and being hassled by Page who despite losing the deathmatch started to get heel by interfering constantly). He was getting over with the "who's house" and Nana's dancing and all that so his turn makes sense. The problem is more that they had the deathmatch to end the feud. But then just kept going in the background of Swerve's title chase, and then randomly again after. MJF and Cole is just "oh woopd Coles injured. Lets drag the angle on for a few months despite being unable to pay off". Then MJF also got injured, but they did the Devil reveal anyways. Setting up a guy who couldn't fight vs another guy who couldn't fight lol. Then 4 months later MJF came back and heel turn on Garcia and the feud with Osprey. That turn was not all that terrible, and at least it was an actual turn done. Buddy cop babyface MJF probably had hit its shelf life anyways. But Adam Cole just wanders back like nothing happened after tormenting both MJF and half a dozen other babyfaces. To save a guy he has no history with. Like they could have him come back and save Kyle OReilly from a Undisputed Kingdom attack, his long time friend and turning him by feuding with his heel faction that presumably is still the leader of. Then try and loop around to MJF.
@@chuckles9767I mean for Roman it make sense he's been in a heel run for a long time and even he turn babyface he still have the same personality as his heel character and currently still suffering the consequences of his arrogant
They dropped the ball on this two. They shouldn't of even split up they were top 10 merch sellers. Be like WWF splitting up the new age outlaws after 2 months.
I'm not going to defend the inconsistencies, it doesn't make any sense that Adam Cole is suddenly a babyface, but I think there are some details we might be leaving out. Just from the fan's perspective, people didn't really like the Devil angle, the Undisputed Kingdom was booked really weak or not booked at all, and while I enjoyed MJF as a babyface, even though he was a bit cringe at times, I know there were people who were growing tired of it. There is an important part of MJF's return promo that people might have forgotten, but he said his main motivation was hate. He got a big pop because he re-signed with AEW and was a face in the context of the story with Adam Cole. He basically told us right then and there in that promo that he was a heel and would be back to his regular MJF ways. Right away, he grabbed Daniel Garcia, a beloved babyface character, and manipulated him. MJF just wanted an opportunity to make an example of someone. It was a shocking "turn", and a memorable one, though a bit poorly timed because Mariah May then had that incredible turn on Toni Storm like the next week. Since nobody liked the Devil/ Undisputed Kingdom, it was maybe the best idea to drop it altogether and have Adam come back as the face to MJF's heel. It still doesn't excuse the bad booking, they could have tried to make more sense of it, but for what's happened this year and where they are now that Adam Cole is back and can wrestle again, maybe it was a better call. Hindsight 20/20, not their best work, pretty egregious, but it's pro wrestling. It's not the first or last time we'll see terrible booking.
I'd actually cut them some slack because they couldn't predict that injury and with it the storyline would have been going very smoothly. But if they do the surprise return, they should not do it for Adam Cole to save Daniel Garcia but to kick MJF's backside. That would be believable for Adam Coles character and their storyline and it would allow for them to rerun their feud in light of the new circumstances of MJF now being heel and Adam Cole returning from an injury and during that feud they could establish that Adam Cole changed during his absense and turn him face. Also by doing this they wouldn't be putting Daniel Garcia in a position where he needs to be safed by a random return of Adam Cole. DC got pretty much burried in this storyline and is now back to the lower midcard far away from challenging for any title and all they did to build him up is just wasted because they sacrificed it for Adam Cole to return and turn face immediatly.
Well they did give some sort of explanation about it. Cole came out saying that mjf is a fake. That everything he was doing was fake. In that retrospect then I guess I can understand it. Kind of like when sting turned heel in tna when hogan came in to only reveal that hogan was the heel all along and sting was the face the whole time. It kind of reminds me of that.
The injury and long recovery is why ton top of MJF being active as a big heel in that time. HHH returning? Face, why? Because his injury, being gone, and coming back to other heels.
AEW turned into the WWE that went almost out of business in the 90's, cartoony characters, no muscle, focus on comedy, sing, dance, have this matches that no one will remember, no real faces or heels, for a company that stated they were going to be more ''sport based or more real'' it really is the most unbelievable wrestling company in the world, they can't suspend your desbelief for at least 1 second, WWE turned out to be the more ''sport based'' wrestling company, and 50x better.
I agree with the majority of this. But MJF has been babyface once, and this is his 2nd heel run. That's all within just over 5 years. That really ain't too bad
In wrestling is it okay to have heal vs heal or babyface vs babyface? Like in comicbooks you can have punisher vs daredevil or captain america vs ironman or superman vs batman or Joker/Riddler War or Flash Rogues vs Flash Rogues (pick a side). Or the Society of Villains needing to pick Luthor or Grodd... or if Darkseid is this bigger threat do they go with Darkseid or work to save Earth with heroes. Like if Adam Cole was still the same heel Adam Cole and he came back....and MJF was now a heel...would those 2 going head to head be ...bad storytelling? Or is "pick a side" not something they do in wresrling? Also sometimes those type of stories do mean some people prefer Bats and others Superman. And sometimes it's how that feud effects other people in that story. So yeah i personally think having an audience complicted as some pick one wrestlers and others chant for another one is interesting and fun too. For me with this Cole vs MJF ...i m team MJF...he's just a better heal. But yeah serious question as i m new to wrestling...can there be babyface vs babyface or heel vs heel and that would work?
I think I was the size of Adam Cole in Grade 7…it took me until Grade 9 to be bigger than most of the rest of the roster. I just didn’t have the gymnastics abilities…stupid hockey, and rugby :( Otherwise, I maybe could have been adored by >600K people :(… I suspect that’s pretty common
It COULD make sense if they jusy tried to put some story in. Cole comes out and says "I messed up, I wanted to prove you couldn't be trusted and I became a worse person for it. Now I got what I wanted, bad boy MJF. I did this. I had good intentions but I lost control....I have to fix it."
There seems to be some sort of storyline, with the Blackpool guys against the rest. Maybe they want to relive the war too? MJF can get good reaction at a cemetary, Adam Cole bay bay is awesome too. They could have an awesome feud. But they are in AEW, so the bookers will screw it up. Nobody watches TNA, but there, they could have a proper match and the crowd would apreciate it, all 4 of them.
It’s a head scratcher. Insulting to anybody who’s kept up. MJF shoulda gone after Cole to restart the feud. That woulda made sense. This just made Cole look like a hypocrite. Terrible booking. I’d rather cheer MJF after that promo.
I would’ve much rathered Adam Cole comes out on a dynamite, do this thing for a bit before calling out MJF and apologizing to him. Tell him he was jealous etc. Him getting injured again was karma for what he did to him. Make him look sympathetic and then boom, have MJF beat on him and try to injure him again. The undisputed kingdom don’t come help him either cuz Adam left them high and dry and how they didn’t need Adam when they won gold. They could even talk about his issues with Brit. Even have Adam lose before confronting MJF as this could all count as karma for turning on him. They could drag this out for months if needed before actually meeting MJF again. Instead his promo came off very heelish especially when he was the one to turn on MJF.
What about Kris Statlander turning babyface again? After about six months as a heel? What's the explanation for the split between Statlander and Stokely Hathaway? This makes no sense!
MJF is about to be Lost in The Sauce Feuding with Adam Cole. Running From Him Is Laughable. He's Shaped just How Paul Heyman Was Shaped when he was in WCW with the Dangerous Alliance. MJF should Feud With Jay Lethal because they are Opposites and both Want a Main Event Spot.That would Also Intersect MJF with Christian Cage they might can cook something good). What Swerve is Doing Going Up Against MVP and Shelton Benjamin is Cool. Swerve is Good at Picking His Battles And Stories. He Simultaneously Worked His Way Up to a Title Shot wrestling solid ass basic wrestling matches, while Feuding With Adam Page having extremely over the top violent matches. He Did Both. For me Swerve is the Top Guy in AEW. Him or Moxley. Moxley's Promo was Very Good Last Dynamite. It Reminded me of the kinda shit Raven From ECW use to do with some Stone Cold Steve Austin in the mix. All in All this company has quirks but it also has alot of good shit to work with.
AEW's biggest issue is that everybody is heel. So, you get guys who just are pushed babyface, but are still heel. At this point, they need an MJF face. If Mox and MJF are the only people you have in this company, they both cant be heels. This should of been a heel Cole, to slowly bring MJF back to a face spot. Just not that sunshine and sacharine face spot
I do not get how hard it is to continue the Adam Cole story for becoming the champion without Wardlow helping or MJF to be the champion and give a reason for Adam Cole to wrestle MJF. I get that both were injured but that does not mean the story could not have continued.
On the latest episode of Dynamite, MJF was talking about denying Cole his revenge. But why would Cole want to take revenge? MJF is the one who should seek it. 🙄 Makes zero sense. Classic Tony Khan booking.
What makes Cole worse is that he was out with an ankle injury so there's no excuse for him not training his upper body at all. It seems like a lot of the ROH generation of wrestlers put zero effort into improving their physique... Adam Cole, Sammi Zayn, Kevin Owens, Chris Hero all look like hammered shit so I can understand why they used to annoy the shit outta Jim Cornette back in the day.
Stevie has very quickly become my favourite insight of his generation. So respectful, reasonable, and humble. It's refreshing.
This is 💯 spot on from one of the nicest, unbiased people in the business and AEW Stans are gonna wrongfully hammer this guy.
They can rage in the comments if they want, it's all good engagement
Getting no reaction is worse than being booed.
Well, that's what's going to happen much of the time. There have been many times when I've found the heel more likable than the face, or even thought the heel was justified in opposing the face. But since I can't cheer the heel or boo the face, I have no choice but to just sit and watch in exasperated silence.
Getting booed at least means you're getting attention, and it's working, no reaction at all is a completely different kettle of fish.
Stevie is the man. He never gave himself enough credit. I know he's a humble guy and I know he wasn't an absolute top guy in the "big" companies but he really was a great wrestler and heel. I agree Stevie, most of the guys in AEW look more like fans, or like they've never been in a fight before. They don't look intimidating or like they could really beat anyone up (Jack Perry, Orange Cassidy as prime examples). I really love the show Stevie.
Here's the safest assumption of all...Adam Cole's music will always be more over than Adam Cole.
Yeah take away the boom and there is not much else but he is better being a heel a he can do a good promo,aew has plenty of talent but tony cant book his way out of a paper bag and gives way too much creative freedom,mox and jericho being prime examples.
There’s a lot of “Theme song merchants” in wrestling right now where the theme or even chants are more over than the actual wrestler.
4@@kieranmcconnell9723
Ironically his rival mjf doesn't have that issue, his song is just a generic stock song
@huh8662 only difference is in nXt he was over for the Undisputed Era's banging theme as well as his wrestling ability. Since going over to AEW that has now changed to just his theme.
Steven is fun to listen to. A real intelligent human being not clouded in ego. Thanks you for your take on the business 👌
So I guess we are forgetting the devil reveal and betrayal? Ok then 😂
Aew is consistent in its inconsistencies
Injuries are a killer.
@petebagwell6666 so family guy irl?
MJF kicked the Devil Adam Cole in the nuts and threw the mask in the audience at Double or Nothing that was the end of devil story. But why bring back Adam Cole as baby face could there not to heels that hate each other in a storyline?
@@petebagwell6666 Lots of wrestling storylines are inconsistent if you think about it hard enough, some have argued that Ripley and Priest deserved to be betrayed.
Stevie is the man! I’m quickly becoming a fan of his insights!
I am glad that I'm not the only one who was confused as to why Adam Cole is angry at MJF and how Cole is supposed to be a face. It kinda reminds me of the Ussos suddenly reuniting after being apart so long, but WWE is taking its time to make sure it makes sense and goes somewhere.
@@djdonald243 it makes sense in the idea that Cole was always the babyface and MJF was always the heel,although the devil reveal and betraying MJF was a heel move it was done as he knew MJF would ultimately betray him as he had teased it many times during and MJF said himself he betrays them before they do,maybe if Cole hadn't needed time out it may have been played out in a better way but this is how I saw the basic outline of the story
@@ianfitton9400 except that outline doesn't exist at all.
The usos didn't reunite at all. Jey is still being hostile to both Jimmy and Roman. Don't you guys pay attention at all.
@@alexandermontejo447 that how i saw the whole deal as mjf was always teasing turning on cole,cole did the same before finally going through with it,it was never a true face and heel program and the injuries also caused plenty of issues with what they may have wanted to do also
@@alexandermontejo447 Yeet
Eat
Sleep
I’ll Show You, You’ll See
Repeat
AEW ruined this storyline, but another commentor on a recent video on the Adam Cole and MJF feud on an AEW video on RUclips said that AEW should have Adam Cole express regret over screwing over MJF and now wanting to slay the monster he "created." The Undisputed Kingdom should turn on him while he seeks redemption. I completely agree with that commentor. If AEW did that, they could salvage this storyline. Right now, the story makes no sense at all. The way the story is currently being presented to audiences is so poorly executed that I would go so far as to say it's insulting to the intelligence of AEW viewers.
The best way to fix things now would be to have MJF take over the Undisputed Kingdom and have them all turn against Cole. That's what I wanted to happen from the moment MJF turned heel three months ago.
“Slaying the monster he created” is definitely one of the most AEW mark things I’ve heard yet.
@SeasideDetective2 That would be a good idea! MJF could then reclaim his Devil persona, fully embrace his heel status, and make the Undisputed Kingdom far more successful under his leadership than it was under Adam Cole's leadership.
About AEW booking week to week: I’ve been saying for a while now that Tony Khan basically had everything booked from the first pay-per-view up through Adam Page winning the world title ahead of time. If you look at AEW’s booking after Adam Page won the world title, it’s like they don’t know what to do with their storylines. The fact that it’s now confirmed that they book week to week seems to confirm that theory for me.
The question is how does someone book a consistent show for 3 years with it all planned out and now he does the Vince thing of booking week to week? He legit books the show the day before the show most of the time. That's terrible and has been proven to not work in wrestling. You need long term plans/concepts to build on week to week. WWE now does that all the time, Bianca and Jade were literally put together just so they can have a singles feud. That's how you build stories. Why would TK get so arrogant to change his system?
@@blablablaa14 I don't think Bianca and Jade are together exclusively for the eventual feud. It's beneficial for Jade to be with somebody more experienced that she can learn from, and to help hide her shortcomings. Plus Bianca and her whole I have a really long wig gimmick was already tired, so it freshens her up a bit too. But, I do understand what you're saying here.
@@hwogrillo Yes there are other good reasons, but obviously the plan is one of them turning on the other which is a huge money match for them and has been planned long time ahead, which is what AEW should have done with Jade and basically wasted all her dream matches by being so sure she will be there forever. Same for Sting, same for Cody, same for Danielson. We get like 20% of the matches we should have with this roster and that's not how AEW should work. We should be getting 100% of the matches we want
@@blablablaa14 I agree, with that. I the case of Sting or Danielson I can see it since the time left for them in the ring was/is pretty limited. But they constantly waste supposed dream matches just for the sake of having them, rather than having it make any sort of logical sense. They're stepping over dollar bills to pick up dimes.
@@hwogrillo Yeah it was pretty limited and they didn't push on those stories to finish them. We are never getting Sting vs Cody, never getting Omega vs Danielson in a decisive win, we aren't getting Jade vs Britt. Those are matches they had years to do and decided not to so they can have Sting spend his career with Darby and Danielson can waste time fighting every midcarder in AEW
The worst part is their fans can’t even take the “criticism” and atleast acknowledge it and consider making changes…they just want to call you a hater/every name in the book and continue to enable it 🤷♂️
And that is why I can't watch AEW. The "sickos" gatekeeping the product is a huge problem.
AEW is the equivalent to foot fetish content. Only certain people enjoy it and proudly boast about it, the rest think that's disgusting.
I like both MJF and Adam Cole. But yeah it's a strange and disappointing turn in their story.
Or a washed up has been for any veteran that knows what they're talking about
Or just don't be chronically on the Internet and just watch the show 💀 @@thestoneshooter1151
I never understood how MJF turned face and tagged with Adam Cole the first time.
Because even as a heel MJF was so damned talented that it was impossible for the crowd to boo him.
Because he's not a traditional heel, he's a Tweener Like Ric Flair was. A Tweener is a popular Heel. I think they should flip him though, Max SHOULD be the Face that does Heel things to win.
The shirts and goofiness were selling way too good for them to drop the story as they originally planned
Because Cole was dead in the water after losing a casket match to the mascot
I think they were forced to tag together in the roh tag titles while building to their match. During that time mjf became to trust Adam.
I don't even understand what people see in Adam Cole.
Most people see a gas station employee, AEW fans see their wet dream.
Great wrestler. Great on the mic. Good looking dude. He’s just built like a high schooler.
WWE used him perfectly ensconcing him in a three man unit that was dominant and heelish. On his own, he's exposed. The guy is too wee.
@@kurtanglerookieyear I think that's a great way of putting it. By himself, dude doesn't look like a threat at all. Guys too lazy to go to the gym and look more intimidating, if he looked like more of an athlete I think people would like him better
He was decent in NXT, since going to AEW he's just another dude that's buddies with the Elite.
The mindset with AEW, and their fans, is this:
1-No one will ever get tired of anything no matter how much they see it and
2-There are no negative consequences to booking. Bad booking only exists in WWE. Every outcome in AEW is either neutral or beneficial to all parties involved.
3-Heels and babyfaces don't matter (per Meltzer even). It can change week to week. As long as they get "good matches", everything else isn't important.
4-No one's size is an advantage or a disadvantage. It's believable for anyone to be competitive with anyone.
Never ever seen a AEW fan say any of what you typed lol.
@@hartfantom You don't visit enough channels then. That said, he shouldn't generalize the entire AEW viewer base either.
@@hartfantom hes just making shit up like the rest
@@david-p8e6o I wouldn’t say that, I just think a lot of mf’s live on Twitter, but even for the videos I’ve created, I’ve had a few AEW fanboys go stupid in my comments but nothing major to how some of these guys display it.
@@hartfantomit's not that serious, people be taking one comment that is like "wow I actually like aew and i'm not complaining about x or y" for some kind of alienation when in reality it is simply someone enjoying the moment.
the rich kid fantasy wrestling booking, why is anyone surprised by this, it comes from the mind of a mark with money.
Good thing most fans are poor, bc they would probably end up donating all their money to WWE😍
Yeah but honestly the way Tony youd think he never watched wrestling but once in highlights. He uses old ideas but does them worse.
Does AEW not allow Adam Cole to workout?
Lmao 😂
Literally laughed out loud 😂
I don't get it if you're on national TV and you basically wrestle in speedos. You think working out would be a big part of your life. It's an image business.
I think it's more of an issue where he was forced to work out in NXT, but now in AEW he spends most of his time streaming video games on his Twitch.
He's too busy with his video games bullshit that Britt Baker got tired of his bony ass
Just have Adam Cole blame MJF for missing almost 2 years of action. Also have Adam blame MJF for Britt Baker leaving him (Kayfabe or not). Thats how it should have been presented.
The story is Cole betrayed MJF before MJF could betray him.
I appreciate Stevie needing only two minutes to lay out a better way to book this than whatever the heck we'll get until the next injury.
Good point, MJF is in his third heel run in less than six years, counting his pairing with Cody as a babyface run. For comparison's sake, the double turn at WrestleMania 13 was the first time Brett turned heel since he was in the Hart Foundation, and the only time Austin turned at all besides the infamously poor invasion run.
Austin was a heel under The Million Dollar Man as The Ringmaster and I think he was originally heel in the early stages of his Stone Cold persona.
@@ch46745 CallMeCrazy is right. He is talking about the double turn where Austin went Babyface. BEfore that, he'd always been a heel (at least basically always where people would remember). Though he is forgetting the "Vince and Austin" heel run after WMX7, which started BEFORE the invasion (and, imho, shouldn't be considered to be quite the same since he turned on Vince to join the INvasion). ANd that heel run at least was very funny.
I'm starting to think that AEW turn people heel or face for no other reason than that they have quotas to fill based on how many of each type they have at the moment. They're obviously going by the seat of their pants, not giving too much thought to what should happen next. Aside from Adam Cole, one of the most recent examples is Anna Jay. She turned heel earlier this year to join the Outcasts, did almost nothing with them, went to Japan for a while, and now she's come back and she's suddenly a face again.
MJF was still heel when him and Cody were friends, he'd act nice to Cody's face, then talk crap when Cody would go on somewhere. He always hated Brandi and The Bucks.
"Those people already paid their ticket. They were already in the building. Those aren't the people you're doing it for."
Never a truer word spoken.
"He was revealed to be the Devil..."
And I never tuned in to another AEW show again...
The Swerve/Adam Page switch made perfect sense, no "excuse" needed. This situation is different and is rightfully criticized.
I think your bias is showing a bit, Stevie.
The Adam Cole injury was at the Grand Slam show last year. That was the same show where Moxley got hurt either at the beginning of the match or later, depending on how you look at it.
I love listening to Stevie talk about wrestling.
I appreciate the honest with Stevie Richards as an experienced Pro-Wrestler. Adam Cole Vs MJF was doomed from the start. AEW is walking pinata at a birthday party. 🤦🏾♂️
I agree, though this is also nothing new with pro wrestling booking. The worst offender I think is still when Gene Snitsky was the heel for accidentally causing Lita's miscarriage, and Kane was treated as the babyface, a grieving father who lost the child he was supposed to have. Were we supposed to forget that Lita was only pregnant because she was kidnapped and r@ped by Kane??
Snitsky later became a babyface as well.
From devil too saint with new story in between. Who needs a redemption arc. Or more likely can't think up a believable redemption art
This booking only makes sense to a mark on cocaine.
You just described me.... and it STILL doesn't make sense! There may be another substance in the mix that we're unaware of.
That is what happened to Big Show. The heel/babyface flip flop really made him stale.
6:57, that deserved a Paulie walnuts style Whoa, nice line Stevie, still got it.
No no no, you guys got it all wrong. They are all heels🤣
I fully agree with Stevie and I feel the same right now about this developing Cody/KO feud. We're supposed to be booing KO because he turned heel but in all honesty, I love Cody but in principle he's the reel heel between the two of them and KO is being treated unfairly but being presented as the heel.
Get it right peeps, it's M-G-F.😂
*Mid G F.
Gud point. In the past, they should have made the rival between the two. The biggest one in history.
Adam Coles music has more muscle than Adam Cole. He looks sickly
Absolutely! That's what everybody is saying!
you know i never even thought about it until you brought it up... Adam cole was the heel, he was the bad guy, even when he came back a few months ago. Now it's all turned around, weird af... thats the cokey tony kahn booking. 6:55 "assume, ass u n me" Wow thats so good i never heard that 😐
I think this is just making the best of a tough situation, I agree completely there's not a satisfying reason why he's face but the year long injury completely derailed the angle. MJF turned heel because the face run had run its course and he's an amazing heel, so by default Cole has to be face if they want MJF-Cole. Think Page has been awesome since the swerve feud started, just what was needed.
I agree, that’s why I keep saying that Tony Khan doesn’t know how to book matches.
Personally I think there is a bigger story here being told. Daniel Garcia stayed on with AEW and fans thought he would go to WWE. Then he is placed in with MJF and now Adam Cole. I think MJF and Cole are swerving us and are actually still working together as a heel faction under Undisputed Kingdom. If done right they can push Garcia and who ever faces them as a huge baby face. It will also help make sense of all the chaos going on in this story. My hope is they are going to tell a good story that is just messy at this point but has the potential to all tie together. Maybe giving Tony and the bookers too much credit but I am at least willing to watch it play out before jumping all over it. One thing WWE does well is Easter Eggs with in there story lines, which get people talking. If AEW can do this with this story they will make this story work and make people big baby faces in there story much like the bloodline story.
Stevie and I have the same haircut! And it scares me 😂
Nah, while Adam Page seems to be a face/heel revolving door or I think he's meant to be a tweener but doesn't have enough to pull it off. Topped off by having a lot of random absences and getting dragged into the Bucks shenanigans,
And Swerve mostly did a sort of organic babyface turn after the first feud (ending in the Texas Deathmatch with the blood drinkign stuff) while feuding with Joe (and being hassled by Page who despite losing the deathmatch started to get heel by interfering constantly). He was getting over with the "who's house" and Nana's dancing and all that so his turn makes sense.
The problem is more that they had the deathmatch to end the feud. But then just kept going in the background of Swerve's title chase, and then randomly again after.
MJF and Cole is just "oh woopd Coles injured. Lets drag the angle on for a few months despite being unable to pay off". Then MJF also got injured, but they did the Devil reveal anyways. Setting up a guy who couldn't fight vs another guy who couldn't fight lol.
Then 4 months later MJF came back and heel turn on Garcia and the feud with Osprey. That turn was not all that terrible, and at least it was an actual turn done. Buddy cop babyface MJF probably had hit its shelf life anyways.
But Adam Cole just wanders back like nothing happened after tormenting both MJF and half a dozen other babyfaces. To save a guy he has no history with. Like they could have him come back and save Kyle OReilly from a Undisputed Kingdom attack, his long time friend and turning him by feuding with his heel faction that presumably is still the leader of. Then try and loop around to MJF.
@@chuckles9767I mean for Roman it make sense he's been in a heel run for a long time and even he turn babyface he still have the same personality as his heel character and currently still suffering the consequences of his arrogant
The safest course of action is to reveal that Adam and MJF are trolling the fans and that they are actually together.
This is peak Tony Khan booking.
It doesn’t have to make sense to everyone.
Only to him.
Still makes more sense than the Bloodline storyline, but good luck getting Stevie to bite the hand that fed him.
They dropped the ball on this two. They shouldn't of even split up they were top 10 merch sellers. Be like WWF splitting up the new age outlaws after 2 months.
Wow I can't be the only person who totally forgot about that angle 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
I'm not going to defend the inconsistencies, it doesn't make any sense that Adam Cole is suddenly a babyface, but I think there are some details we might be leaving out.
Just from the fan's perspective, people didn't really like the Devil angle, the Undisputed Kingdom was booked really weak or not booked at all, and while I enjoyed MJF as a babyface, even though he was a bit cringe at times, I know there were people who were growing tired of it.
There is an important part of MJF's return promo that people might have forgotten, but he said his main motivation was hate. He got a big pop because he re-signed with AEW and was a face in the context of the story with Adam Cole. He basically told us right then and there in that promo that he was a heel and would be back to his regular MJF ways. Right away, he grabbed Daniel Garcia, a beloved babyface character, and manipulated him. MJF just wanted an opportunity to make an example of someone. It was a shocking "turn", and a memorable one, though a bit poorly timed because Mariah May then had that incredible turn on Toni Storm like the next week.
Since nobody liked the Devil/ Undisputed Kingdom, it was maybe the best idea to drop it altogether and have Adam come back as the face to MJF's heel. It still doesn't excuse the bad booking, they could have tried to make more sense of it, but for what's happened this year and where they are now that Adam Cole is back and can wrestle again, maybe it was a better call.
Hindsight 20/20, not their best work, pretty egregious, but it's pro wrestling. It's not the first or last time we'll see terrible booking.
I'd actually cut them some slack because they couldn't predict that injury and with it the storyline would have been going very smoothly. But if they do the surprise return, they should not do it for Adam Cole to save Daniel Garcia but to kick MJF's backside. That would be believable for Adam Coles character and their storyline and it would allow for them to rerun their feud in light of the new circumstances of MJF now being heel and Adam Cole returning from an injury and during that feud they could establish that Adam Cole changed during his absense and turn him face.
Also by doing this they wouldn't be putting Daniel Garcia in a position where he needs to be safed by a random return of Adam Cole. DC got pretty much burried in this storyline and is now back to the lower midcard far away from challenging for any title and all they did to build him up is just wasted because they sacrificed it for Adam Cole to return and turn face immediatly.
1:40 This is the clearest indication that Joe's world title run sucked. And it's a damn shame.
not to mention the devil and his henchman also attacked Samoa joe, swerve, jay white, etc.
Well they did give some sort of explanation about it. Cole came out saying that mjf is a fake. That everything he was doing was fake. In that retrospect then I guess I can understand it. Kind of like when sting turned heel in tna when hogan came in to only reveal that hogan was the heel all along and sting was the face the whole time. It kind of reminds me of that.
The injury and long recovery is why ton top of MJF being active as a big heel in that time. HHH returning? Face, why? Because his injury, being gone, and coming back to other heels.
One of the funniest wrestling storylines of all time.
Wwe has plenty of heel vs heel or face vs face matches like liv vs Tiffany Stratton recently or lashed out at legend vs piper Niven
Booker of the decade am I right guys
Most of wrestling to me has gone down hill but I still watch.
That didn’t take long. Can’t blame you for going for the bag
I'm happy Stevie pointed out this nonsense 😂😂
MJF has already put Adam Coke over and then nothing happens. This promin by Cole made absolutely no sense.. Who wants to see this match again
I feel like AEW has forgotten the audience and is just entertaining themselves.
Me being an AEW fan and plan on being at full gear ….. I don’t care what the story is I want to see them two go at it
AEW turned into the WWE that went almost out of business in the 90's, cartoony characters, no muscle, focus on comedy, sing, dance, have this matches that no one will remember, no real faces or heels, for a company that stated they were going to be more ''sport based or more real'' it really is the most unbelievable wrestling company in the world, they can't suspend your desbelief for at least 1 second, WWE turned out to be the more ''sport based'' wrestling company, and 50x better.
I thought adam cole would return with some muscle but he looks even smaller than before
I agree with the majority of this. But MJF has been babyface once, and this is his 2nd heel run. That's all within just over 5 years. That really ain't too bad
Adam Cole looks like if you took my 5'3 100 lbs body and stuck Shawn Michaels head on it.
In wrestling is it okay to have heal vs heal or babyface vs babyface? Like in comicbooks you can have punisher vs daredevil or captain america vs ironman or superman vs batman or Joker/Riddler War or Flash Rogues vs Flash Rogues (pick a side). Or the Society of Villains needing to pick Luthor or Grodd... or if Darkseid is this bigger threat do they go with Darkseid or work to save Earth with heroes. Like if Adam Cole was still the same heel Adam Cole and he came back....and MJF was now a heel...would those 2 going head to head be ...bad storytelling? Or is "pick a side" not something they do in wresrling? Also sometimes those type of stories do mean some people prefer Bats and others Superman. And sometimes it's how that feud effects other people in that story. So yeah i personally think having an audience complicted as some pick one wrestlers and others chant for another one is interesting and fun too. For me with this Cole vs MJF ...i m team MJF...he's just a better heal. But yeah serious question as i m new to wrestling...can there be babyface vs babyface or heel vs heel and that would work?
Adam Cole looks like Pops from Regular Show😂😂
Honestly booking like this is part of the reason I don't watch aew anymore. It's a joke
I think I was the size of Adam Cole in Grade 7…it took me until Grade 9 to be bigger than most of the rest of the roster. I just didn’t have the gymnastics abilities…stupid hockey, and rugby :(
Otherwise, I maybe could have been adored by >600K people :(…
I suspect that’s pretty common
It COULD make sense if they jusy tried to put some story in. Cole comes out and says "I messed up, I wanted to prove you couldn't be trusted and I became a worse person for it. Now I got what I wanted, bad boy MJF. I did this. I had good intentions but I lost control....I have to fix it."
The MJF low blow to Cole was the greatest AEW moment
Tony Khan has become Vince McMahon in that he thinks the fans are stupid and have no long term memory.
Thumbnail: CM Punk and Adam Cole had a baby?
There seems to be some sort of storyline, with the Blackpool guys against the rest. Maybe they want to relive the war too?
MJF can get good reaction at a cemetary, Adam Cole bay bay is awesome too. They could have an awesome feud. But they are in AEW, so the bookers will screw it up. Nobody watches TNA, but there, they could have a proper match and the crowd would apreciate it, all 4 of them.
It’s a head scratcher. Insulting to anybody who’s kept up. MJF shoulda gone after Cole to restart the feud. That woulda made sense. This just made Cole look like a hypocrite. Terrible booking. I’d rather cheer MJF after that promo.
What happened to adam cole's faction?
I would’ve much rathered Adam Cole comes out on a dynamite, do this thing for a bit before calling out MJF and apologizing to him. Tell him he was jealous etc. Him getting injured again was karma for what he did to him. Make him look sympathetic and then boom, have MJF beat on him and try to injure him again. The undisputed kingdom don’t come help him either cuz Adam left them high and dry and how they didn’t need Adam when they won gold. They could even talk about his issues with Brit. Even have Adam lose before confronting MJF as this could all count as karma for turning on him. They could drag this out for months if needed before actually meeting MJF again. Instead his promo came off very heelish especially when he was the one to turn on MJF.
I think that the new casual wrestling viewer, really doesn't care about storytelling, they are just watching for the entertainment value.
"IT MAKES NO SENSE!" Should be AEWs tagline
Put Wardlow with Adam Cole!
Alexa Bliss swallows.
Im just happy Mjf is the Heel he is better as a heel anyway even with the story not making sense
What about Kris Statlander turning babyface again? After about six months as a heel? What's the explanation for the split between Statlander and Stokely Hathaway? This makes no sense!
MJF is about to be Lost in The Sauce Feuding with Adam Cole. Running From Him Is Laughable. He's Shaped just How Paul Heyman Was Shaped when he was in WCW with the Dangerous Alliance. MJF should Feud With Jay Lethal because they are Opposites and both Want a Main Event Spot.That would Also Intersect MJF with Christian Cage they might can cook something good). What Swerve is Doing Going Up Against MVP and Shelton Benjamin is Cool. Swerve is Good at Picking His Battles And Stories. He Simultaneously Worked His Way Up to a Title Shot wrestling solid ass basic wrestling matches, while Feuding With Adam Page having extremely over the top violent matches. He Did Both. For me Swerve is the Top Guy in AEW. Him or Moxley. Moxley's Promo was Very Good Last Dynamite. It Reminded me of the kinda shit Raven From ECW use to do with some Stone Cold Steve Austin in the mix. All in All this company has quirks but it also has alot of good shit to work with.
AEW's biggest issue is that everybody is heel. So, you get guys who just are pushed babyface, but are still heel. At this point, they need an MJF face. If Mox and MJF are the only people you have in this company, they both cant be heels. This should of been a heel Cole, to slowly bring MJF back to a face spot. Just not that sunshine and sacharine face spot
Poor Paul was just waiting on that call from Hogan, I swear hogan did so many heel like things during his long baby face run haha.
Is Adam cole Stevie Richards long lost son 😂
MJF had the potential to be special, then this whole thing with Adam Cole started, he re-signed, then got an AEW tattoo.
No lies told
Tony Khan can not book and as a result even the best aew talent is ice cold.
I do not get how hard it is to continue the Adam Cole story for becoming the champion without Wardlow helping or MJF to be the champion and give a reason for Adam Cole to wrestle MJF. I get that both were injured but that does not mean the story could not have continued.
Stevie looking like CM Punk in the thumbnail
This fued was derailed by both mjf and Cole getting injured than proceeded to do nothing
Of course it doesn’t make sense, as Tony Con can’t book.
On the latest episode of Dynamite, MJF was talking about denying Cole his revenge. But why would Cole want to take revenge? MJF is the one who should seek it. 🙄 Makes zero sense. Classic Tony Khan booking.
Why couldn't they just keep Adam a heel for the feud? Heel vs heel isn't unheard of
What makes Cole worse is that he was out with an ankle injury so there's no excuse for him not training his upper body at all. It seems like a lot of the ROH generation of wrestlers put zero effort into improving their physique... Adam Cole, Sammi Zayn, Kevin Owens, Chris Hero all look like hammered shit so I can understand why they used to annoy the shit outta Jim Cornette back in the day.