Here's a theory, What IF the 3rd Descender is Paimon? What if the "Paimon" we have following us is a "Fragment" of her former self? Based on something JP VA's Aoi Koga stated in an interview Paimon does indeed have a "True form" and that it would leave us the audience with out mouths a gap, with how awesome and badass she is. This would imply That Paimon A. is NOT the Heavenly Principles, in fact she may be another goddess altogether, or one of 3 moon shades. OR a Rival to the Heavenly Principles herself based on how she phrased her answer as it was a bit too specific.
But then again if Paimon was a descender, she wouldn't be affected by the deletion of Scaramouche or Greater Lord Rukkhadevata. Descenders are not affected by Irminsul, what reason would Paimon have to lie to the Traveler about not remembering?
I had to read the Neuvillette's vision story again just to be sure So your telling me that the First Decender/Primordial One worked together with The Second Descender/The one who came after to kill the Third Decender and create the Gnosis? Is this why the fight between the Primordial One and the Second who came had an unclear winner in the Byakuyakoku Collection? They didn't know that they ended up working together? Or is the one who came after and the second descender two different entities since the title of Descender can only be gifted to those who have 'the will to change the world'. Tangent here but I like the idea of the Traveler gaining the Pyro gnosis so we can have a bargaining chip against the Tsaritsa. I want to see how much of a bad luck charm the gnosis are tbh. Will my artifacts become even more dogshit and only roll into flat stats? Will I start getting fowl and meat from treasure chests again or even worse cabbages💀
Leaving this here, just in case: "the usurper and one who came after" does not in any way directly reference the Second Who Came. It could even be the Third Descender, or someone else who didn't qualify to be called a Descender. Of course, there is the possibility that it's the Second Who Came, but the wording is anything but clear. It's not "and the one who came after", but "and one who came after" - there's a whole world of difference between the two. That small nitpick aside, really thought provoking video, great job! o7 I'm getting more excited for Natlan every passing day xD
it says "one who came after" not "THE ONE who came after" you can argue is writter this way to be ambiguous it can mean "the usurper and one of his creation" or the "usurper and the next decender"
i’ve read over my sources and the misunderstanding seems to come from the Genshin wiki which labelled the two interchangeably. Thanks for mentioning it though, i’ll make this distinction next time.
Hmm, judging from old lines from Venti and some details about the Tsaritsa, i believe she's the Cryo archon during the Cataclysm. Not the OG, but the current. She changed after seeing what happened to Khaenri'ah.
This may be an obvious answer or theory but relating on your second theory, it wasn't a coincidence that Paimon was found by the traveler. I feel like that the heavenly principles really did sent Paimon to keep an observation about the traveler's existence and their whole journey through Teyvat, but in exchange of her not remembering anything to avoid any suspicions about her. There were hints here and there that she might betray the travelers at any point. This can be seen after playing through some events and quest. Especially in the narzissenkreuz quest when we met Canotila and revealed some juicy lore bomb on Paimon. But its just a speculation
It's also possible that Paimon has some sort of great authority(given her crown) and the sustainer sent traveler back to Teyvat knowing fate would have them meet that way both sides would see each other's perspective at the end of our journey.
So as it stands now the the power that Celestia currently possess is the authority of the dragon sovereigns. Now that is like their soul its not the dragons themselves, it greatly diminished the dragons power and they were cast down to earth, Theyvat. Once that happened I believe Nibelung conspired with Irmin in Khaenri'ah to overthrow Celestia. Around the same time Deshret was aware of this and also wanted Sumeru to be free of gods. Nibelung more or less ordered Apep to eat Deshret after obtaining forbidden knowledge this was done to conquer that force but it failed. Celestia responded with sending down a Celestial nail on top of Apep to stop the corruption brewing inside her, this was also how the desert was formed. After the archon war the "world was on the verge of collapse" according to Apep, meaning it needed to be mended and both the Descenders that was fighting recognized that. They used the remains of the third descender to create the Gnosis supposedly the one that perished in that fight. The Third Descender is Lumine. Lumine was the only one that survived the archon war, her sibling died, but the memory of the sibling was resurrected by the Sustainer with the help of the stars. The stars were taken down from the sky and used to store the memory of humanity in order to reshape the world with the help of Irminsul through the leylines Irminsul can recieve the information from the abyss were the stars have been kept that way they can recreate humanity out of the memories from the Calamity. However Lumine was sent down again to have a chance to retrieve her body. "I wont rest until I have engulfed the thrones" She is referring to the archons I don't believe the Gnosis can be destroyed without taking down the whole foundation of Celestia. The Consequence of this is that Theyvat seizes to exist, but given that it is literally founded on her corpse I don't think she minds. The problem is Lumine is no longer considered a Descender and Irminsul can form her fate as it pleases, making it almost impossible for her to make conscious actions, the end result will always be what Theyvat intended in the first place. Now I actually believe that Tsaritsa and Lumine are working together, and Lumine has convinced Tsaritsa on one of her journeys, when she reached Snezhnaya she told her the truth of this world, and Tsaritsa became disgusted and angry, she understood that her life is not real and that Lumine deserves to leave Theyvat. It is fitting that it is the archon of love that understands this injustice and that love turned into ice. She informed the Fatui that the gods are not gods, and that humans are being controlled with the help of visions. Convinced of this the Fatui formed delusions of grandure and the seed of defying the gods blossom once more in Theyvat. And so the story is repeated, the only thing that changed was the actors in the play on the stage. Something a certain pirate boy currently located in Mondstadt tries to tell the traveller, the plot thickens...
What I’m curious about is the primordial one and the one that came after, did it actually take both of them to kill the 3rd descender? Btw, I really like the fact that you are using facts to make lore videos! Very nice job! 👍 You are very perceptive!
I believe Tsaritsa will gladly meet the Traveler, even if they have no Gnosis to have bargaining leverage. I mean.. The Traveler's achievements have spread all across Teyvat, if anything, I'd wager the Tsaritsa would rather make an ally and not an enemy of them.
Nah, ain't no way we're beating Capitano. Ranked 1 of the Harbingers and the Strongest Mortal in Teyvat? We beat the 11th, the 8th and the 6th in God Mode but even Childe is horrified of Columbina who's number 3, especially since the Top 3 are all Archon level. This is complete feelscraft but I think that since Murata is the God of War the Capitano is all about Righteousness, "has great personal strength" via Scara, "a sight on the battle field" by Childe and wants to be dueled by Varka, I'm willing to bet that Capitano would challenge Murata and whoever wins gets the Pyro Gnosis, especially because of Dainsleif's lines during the Natlan Chapter of the Teyvat Chapter Storyline where he says "The rules of war are woven in the womb. The victors shall shine bright, while the losers turn to ash". Also, the Natlan Chapter (or maybe its Final Chapter) is also called "Incandescent Ode of Resurrection". Maybe the Pyro Archon Murata could be a Murata Himeko Expy (a fan fave character from other HoYo games) and the secret she has to say to us is that she's a Phoenix and can revive so that HoYo could do their thing and kill her but bring her back to life to satisfy the community and make her playable. This would have more weight if The Tsaritsa is indeed Bronya (another fan fave from other HoYogames) because that would make all the Archons (barring Zhongli and Furina) expies from other HoYo games (if they do make the connections with The Primordial Sea and The Sea of Quanta, and The Irminsul and The Imaginary tree and whatnot). Just a maybe tho, let me cook HDKDNDKDNDK
Uh, we twins couldn't defeat the sustainer together so how we gonna defeat third decender, if it turns out to be threat to celestia or teyvat, there might be some other reason.
![Dottore's Secret: The truth behind the Scaramouche Experiment [Genshin Impact Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BA0celV-BB4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Dottore's Secret: The truth behind the Scaramouche Experiment [Genshin Impact Theory]](/img/tr.png)
Here's a theory, What IF the 3rd Descender is Paimon? What if the "Paimon" we have following us is a "Fragment" of her former self? Based on something JP VA's Aoi Koga stated in an interview Paimon does indeed have a "True form" and that it would leave us the audience with out mouths a gap, with how awesome and badass she is. This would imply That Paimon A. is NOT the Heavenly Principles, in fact she may be another goddess altogether, or one of 3 moon shades. OR a Rival to the Heavenly Principles herself based on how she phrased her answer as it was a bit too specific.
But then again if Paimon was a descender, she wouldn't be affected by the deletion of Scaramouche or Greater Lord Rukkhadevata.
Descenders are not affected by Irminsul, what reason would Paimon have to lie to the Traveler about not remembering?
@@hyteluk3 moon sisters are likely from tevyat
Is that the very first interview of her?
I had to read the Neuvillette's vision story again just to be sure
So your telling me that the First Decender/Primordial One worked together with The Second Descender/The one who came after to kill the Third Decender and create the Gnosis? Is this why the fight between the Primordial One and the Second who came had an unclear winner in the Byakuyakoku Collection? They didn't know that they ended up working together? Or is the one who came after and the second descender two different entities since the title of Descender can only be gifted to those who have 'the will to change the world'.
Tangent here but I like the idea of the Traveler gaining the Pyro gnosis so we can have a bargaining chip against the Tsaritsa. I want to see how much of a bad luck charm the gnosis are tbh.
Will my artifacts become even more dogshit and only roll into flat stats? Will I start getting fowl and meat from treasure chests again or even worse cabbages💀
I can see them doing that. It would be their best bet to get some answers out of her.
Probably the Third was so cracked the former two enemies teamed up
So you’re telling me bennett is secretly the pyro archon all along and he has the pyro gnosis. Lol
Leaving this here, just in case: "the usurper and one who came after" does not in any way directly reference the Second Who Came. It could even be the Third Descender, or someone else who didn't qualify to be called a Descender. Of course, there is the possibility that it's the Second Who Came, but the wording is anything but clear. It's not "and the one who came after", but "and one who came after" - there's a whole world of difference between the two.
That small nitpick aside, really thought provoking video, great job! o7
I'm getting more excited for Natlan every passing day xD
CN uses diff words for SwC and one who came after
@@_datsu Good to know, thanks for sharing!
oh, interesting. thanks for letting me know.
This was such a good discussion! I would love to see you dive into this Dottore thread you mentioned. Looking forward for more!
I remember somewhere in the early archon quest its already mention and implied that zhongli and venti are the original archon left
it says "one who came after" not "THE ONE who came after"
you can argue is writter this way to be ambiguous
it can mean "the usurper and one of his creation" or the "usurper and the next decender"
i’ve read over my sources and the misunderstanding seems to come from the Genshin wiki which labelled the two interchangeably. Thanks for mentioning it though, i’ll make this distinction next time.
Hmm, judging from old lines from Venti and some details about the Tsaritsa, i believe she's the Cryo archon during the Cataclysm. Not the OG, but the current. She changed after seeing what happened to Khaenri'ah.
This may be an obvious answer or theory but relating on your second theory, it wasn't a coincidence that Paimon was found by the traveler. I feel like that the heavenly principles really did sent Paimon to keep an observation about the traveler's existence and their whole journey through Teyvat, but in exchange of her not remembering anything to avoid any suspicions about her. There were hints here and there that she might betray the travelers at any point. This can be seen after playing through some events and quest. Especially in the narzissenkreuz quest when we met Canotila and revealed some juicy lore bomb on Paimon.
But its just a speculation
Great point about Paimon actually. If anything it basically confirms that Celestia has plans about the traveller even further
It's also possible that Paimon has some sort of great authority(given her crown) and the sustainer sent traveler back to Teyvat knowing fate would have them meet that way both sides would see each other's perspective at the end of our journey.
So as it stands now the the power that Celestia currently possess is the authority of the dragon sovereigns. Now that is like their soul its not the dragons themselves, it greatly diminished the dragons power and they were cast down to earth, Theyvat. Once that happened I believe Nibelung conspired with Irmin in Khaenri'ah to overthrow Celestia. Around the same time Deshret was aware of this and also wanted Sumeru to be free of gods. Nibelung more or less ordered Apep to eat Deshret after obtaining forbidden knowledge this was done to conquer that force but it failed. Celestia responded with sending down a Celestial nail on top of Apep to stop the corruption brewing inside her, this was also how the desert was formed.
After the archon war the "world was on the verge of collapse" according to Apep, meaning it needed to be mended and both the Descenders that was fighting recognized that. They used the remains of the third descender to create the Gnosis supposedly the one that perished in that fight. The Third Descender is Lumine. Lumine was the only one that survived the archon war, her sibling died, but the memory of the sibling was resurrected by the Sustainer with the help of the stars. The stars were taken down from the sky and used to store the memory of humanity in order to reshape the world with the help of Irminsul through the leylines Irminsul can recieve the information from the abyss were the stars have been kept that way they can recreate humanity out of the memories from the Calamity. However Lumine was sent down again to have a chance to retrieve her body. "I wont rest until I have engulfed the thrones" She is referring to the archons I don't believe the Gnosis can be destroyed without taking down the whole foundation of Celestia. The Consequence of this is that Theyvat seizes to exist, but given that it is literally founded on her corpse I don't think she minds. The problem is Lumine is no longer considered a Descender and Irminsul can form her fate as it pleases, making it almost impossible for her to make conscious actions, the end result will always be what Theyvat intended in the first place.
Now I actually believe that Tsaritsa and Lumine are working together, and Lumine has convinced Tsaritsa on one of her journeys, when she reached Snezhnaya she told her the truth of this world, and Tsaritsa became disgusted and angry, she understood that her life is not real and that Lumine deserves to leave Theyvat. It is fitting that it is the archon of love that understands this injustice and that love turned into ice. She informed the Fatui that the gods are not gods, and that humans are being controlled with the help of visions. Convinced of this the Fatui formed delusions of grandure and the seed of defying the gods blossom once more in Theyvat. And so the story is repeated, the only thing that changed was the actors in the play on the stage. Something a certain pirate boy currently located in Mondstadt tries to tell the traveller, the plot thickens...
What I’m curious about is the primordial one and the one that came after, did it actually take both of them to kill the 3rd descender? Btw, I really like the fact that you are using facts to make lore videos! Very nice job! 👍 You are very perceptive!
I believe Tsaritsa will gladly meet the Traveler, even if they have no Gnosis to have bargaining leverage.
I mean.. The Traveler's achievements have spread all across Teyvat, if anything, I'd wager the Tsaritsa would rather make an ally and not an enemy of them.
8:00 they have already confirmed that only venti and zhongli are the only original archons alive
Nah, ain't no way we're beating Capitano. Ranked 1 of the Harbingers and the Strongest Mortal in Teyvat? We beat the 11th, the 8th and the 6th in God Mode but even Childe is horrified of Columbina who's number 3, especially since the Top 3 are all Archon level.
This is complete feelscraft but I think that since Murata is the God of War the Capitano is all about Righteousness, "has great personal strength" via Scara, "a sight on the battle field" by Childe and wants to be dueled by Varka, I'm willing to bet that Capitano would challenge Murata and whoever wins gets the Pyro Gnosis, especially because of Dainsleif's lines during the Natlan Chapter of the Teyvat Chapter Storyline where he says "The rules of war are woven in the womb. The victors shall shine bright, while the losers turn to ash". Also, the Natlan Chapter (or maybe its Final Chapter) is also called "Incandescent Ode of Resurrection". Maybe the Pyro Archon Murata could be a Murata Himeko Expy (a fan fave character from other HoYo games) and the secret she has to say to us is that she's a Phoenix and can revive so that HoYo could do their thing and kill her but bring her back to life to satisfy the community and make her playable.
This would have more weight if The Tsaritsa is indeed Bronya (another fan fave from other HoYogames) because that would make all the Archons (barring Zhongli and Furina) expies from other HoYo games (if they do make the connections with The Primordial Sea and The Sea of Quanta, and The Irminsul and The Imaginary tree and whatnot).
Just a maybe tho, let me cook HDKDNDKDNDK
Uh, we twins couldn't defeat the sustainer together so how we gonna defeat third decender, if it turns out to be threat to celestia or teyvat, there might be some other reason.