Very well said. I was right on the edge of becoming a murderer myself. Even at twelve, I knew coming forward meant they would go to my abusers and ask if it was true? I was cut off from communicating with our father's family. My father got a court order before my plan was implemented. I rather be in prison than a slave any longer to this man. Yes, I wouldn't talk about the abuse publicly until my children were grown up. I never wanted to kill but for these kind of abusers. It is the only real way to stop the abuse. My abuser is on Megan's List. He was already a convicted offender when our sadistic mother brought him into our homes. I still, so many years later, have family members bring up the abuse as if I did something wrong. They lie about my ages during the abuses. Because he was in the military when convicted, his case was sealed. Which is insane. Made worse because the miliatary has not parole board and do not follow dishonorabley discharged soldiers. Because I was taught suicide was the one unforgivable sin, that is the only reason I was debating which way to go. I had the problem that if I went to prison, it would leave my mother open to bringing another brutal offender into our home and there would be no one to protect my younger brothers. By not having LE investigate our case, I have had to live my life always looking behind me. Carring the guilt of not risking going to trial because I was being told our case wasn't strong enough. It wasn't because even doctor's didn't want to know the truth. No xrays. Scars on my knees. I had to train, to make sure if he ever came at me for revenge, I will k him. Children should not have to grow-up and live out their lives knowing someone so terrible is free and a threat to the well-being of children. I was always worried about the safety of my family. That one of them might take revenge at me by going after my children. In our case too, the defense stated I was lying because I wanted all of my mother's attention. Thankfully, the court didn't fall for this since we were in court to escape her custody not to stay. But upon reflection, we had a very strong case. If only LE were allowed to talk to teachers, friends, neighbors, and xrays were taken. As well as setting up a three way conversation. They couldn't maintain their control over me without threats of retaliations. It is ridiculous to call it entrapment when children get a recorded confession. Yes, if and when that day ever happens. When children can come forward and have a safe home to escape to. I know how fortunate I was to have my paternal grandmother and aunt pushed my father to get a court order. Knowing so many cases where teachers, family and friends report abuses and the children were forced to have to face their abusers for retaliations. Victims know their abusers can either murder them or sell them. They would be gone before anyone even cared that your disappeared. When your mother forces you to comply with your abuser. My mother turned me into the other woman but I was a young girl. I would argue with her to make it stop but she told me it was my role to stop him. It was a contridiction. My mother wanted his money, his control over us. My mother was not being abused. She was in control. She gave him the board he would hit me with. When I begged her to protect me? I was told this was my fault and I deserved to be abused. Later in life. She was the victim. She was using me to keep control over her monster. She tried for years to gain control back over me. Not quite what you would expect from someone who claims you were seducing her convict boyfriend to steal him away from her. Truth be told I could have easily done it and avoided all of the pain and suffering. I hated him. He enjoyed seeing me suffer and knowing I couldn't stop him. This Menendez Case was difficult because we didn't learn of the abuse until much later into the case. All that you are now saying I never heard any of these details. So horrible. As you are saying these details are unique and make their case of abuse a lot more believable.
@@louisepowell1793 Thank you for caring. I speak up now because I am one of the lucky ones. Too many were erased by their abusers. Didn't have my grandmother to save us. I feel I have to be more than grateful. We have to speak our truth for those still suffering. Many contiue to suffer because our legal system doesn't want to deal with abusers. Feel helpless because of CPS failures and Foster Care nightmares. It is up to us, to take the power away from abusers. We have to embolden abused children. Force families to step up and stop CA. Many times I find family sees or fears abuse but to keep the family together or to avoid conflict? They support the abusers. Wow, the Stephen Sterns case is a prime example of how family refuses to take big steps to end abuse. They put it upon a child to fight off abusers when many give abusers, parents rights to harm children when it is illegal to harm adults. Religion is suppose to be about instruction and self-control yet some promote violence to dominate. And think they are Christian. But they are not. CPS needs to be stronger. We need oversight. Stop pushing abused children back into bad homes. Especially if beatings/CSA is involved. This is the abusers nature. A class or some rehab will not change their spots or heal an abused child who has been taught to become an abuser or an enabler. I can say my bounderies were warped because our abuse was so severe. I had to have someone teach me what good bounderies are and how to manage a life full of angry flashbacks. How to manage anger in healthy way that will not hurt me inside. This is such a difficult case. I must lean on Anne's years of study to trust her judgment.
The military still chooses to cover up abuse. I was abused growing up. You grow up with no self esteem or friends. I’m 70 yrs old and struggle with self esteem today.
As a child of SA and abuse, I feel for these two men. I hope they do get new trials. My understanding evidence withheld and their family wanting them freed. I hope they do get set free.
Ms Anne, I absolutely adore her. My father studied under her guidance in the late 80 s early 1990 I feel like I grew up listening to her work and words . I love love her
Free them already - we have brutal murderers and rapists who got less for just as if not more heinous for NO reason crimes. Just read an interview with their aunt, Jose’s sister, who said Jose was sick with his own traumas and she thinks Erik and Lyle should be freed. They paid their debt to society let them do something good with the rest of their lives.
It's mind-numbing how some people pretend like all violence is morally equal regardless of circumstance and perceive them as a threat to society despite the fact that, outside of their relationship with their parents, there are zero (0) reports of them being violent toward anybody else in their entire lives (even in prison, an environment that's rampant with and facilitates violence)
It’s also weird how people say “all murder is equal” when even in the court of law, that’s not the case lol. If it was, we wouldn’t have 1st degree, 2nd degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, etc.
I know it all too well all the abuse in the world i have seen you are great keep going i do everyday it takes work but keep going i am proud of myself what i overcame i know you can ❤
So excited to hear this! I think the Menendez brothers was one of the first cases that got me into true crime with the nuance of "I think this person did it, but maybe there was actually a reason". Not saying I would ever condone murder, but this one was definitely one to ponder on.
Hey STS, Joel and honorable guests! Joel, GREAT PODCAST!!! We are not at all “bleeding hearts”! We choose to take a stand against abuse and are compassionate towards children who had endured years of the most heinous cruelty one could imagine!!! Imagine if you or someone you loved were being raped repeatedly and threatened with bodily harm if they told anyone about it just try to understand how you would feel! It is true: He who sees evil being practiced and does not take a stand against it is actually cooperating with it.
I did too… I think and feel they paid already… the same way the parents did too… the trauma stay forever and suffering in jail for 33 yrs it’s enough… and tbh I think the judge was a pedophile himself for not allowing the evidence in the sec trial
@@TheMamita823 I agree w/ you! And, if he wasn't a pedophile, he might as well have been one. It is disgraceful what that judge did. He helped set the tone against the Menendez Brothers. Is that exactly legal? A real question 🤔 It doesn't seem right to me and can the judge's actions & decisions be considered outright prejudice against the brothers? Or is that judge the type who holds a belief that the brother's deserved the abuse they received, which again, is the same stance. I sincerely hope that the brothers are released from prison. Enough is enough.
@@cheatednomore6430I completely agree with you and the others. It's enough, let them go. Many Judges are sick Narcissists. It goes right to the top. Prince Charles was best friends with Jimmy Saville. He knew what Jimmy was into. It's demonic lu st.
My aunt is in her 80’s and just recently told me that she was raped when she was a teenager by someone we all knew. She’d never told anyone. I always knew she hated that man but had no idea why. The suffering is real and lasts a long time
The only reason they did that was Lyle wrote Erik a letter, that was found in Erik's cell hidden, that outlined an escape plan from the jail. They separated them so they would not escape; altho in hindsight, it was cruel to separate them as they were very close. They d-i-d kill their parents with shot guns point-blank in cold blood (even reloaded just to make sure the mom was dead), when at 18/19 and 21 and completely lied about it, when they could have easily just walked away (not shot anyone)...but they would have had to walk away from their family and the millions. If you saw the Netflix series and believe it's mostly accurate, they were VERY concerned where the latest will was held that their dad said wrote them out of the will; at one time, Erik was tasked to sleep with their dad's safe that they thought the new will would be in-if they didn't care about the $, why would they do that? Lyle has witnesses that he tried to get to lie and say that his dad did something to them or that he had told them that he was afraid for his life, when he first got arrested; and he is on recording to a woman who was helping him write a book, that he could con juries because he can cry on command (and other damning statements). Remember, on the 911 call Lyle made, he fake cried, and then said that "someone" (from the mafia the boys said) killed their parents. These young men just weren't defenseless little boys at the time of the shootings, altho what their dad did to them was despicable and he was obviously a huge bully. I think the shootings were from the anger they understandably had toward their dad (and their mom, who didn't defend them), and not from them being at all afraid for their lives. Did the $ have anything to do with it...maybe, maybe not. Having said that, I think it should have been manslaughter because of the mitigating circumstances...and the boys, now men, should be recharged and let out of prison, time served...but other commentators in LE have said that's just not going to happen at this late date, unfortunately.
If they weren’t going to let them tell their story why the hell did they let them have 2 trials in the first place? Seems like the second trial was conveniently placed in a way so that there could be no chance for an appropriate punishment…not fair at all..what about Jose’s carnage against his family not to mention a child star (Roy from Menudo - he was 14 for Christ’s sake) Not to mention the damage sexual abuse does to the still developing minds of children…Erik’s testimony is particularly heartbreaking and way too detailed to just be made up
I watch on replay and don’t comment often; you guys really DO have the best guests on every show, seriously. Anne is AMAZING and definitely a living legend, and i so admire Wendy and Wendy’s passion ( I would so love to work with her.) I hate to see the criticism in the comments of any of your guests . . . guests- please dont be discouraged by the easy, armchair haters. STS is absolutely outstanding at booking guests and Joel is amazing at directing/interviewing/listening during the conversations. STS- your team is outstanding, Bravo!
I watched the entire televised trial and was shocked that people still think they are lying. As a child of a divorced mother I had to take care of my 2 younger siblings while she worked nights. I was ten with no support system and often had to make very adult decisions. Many were life and death and I remember the intense stress I felt. What Lyle and Eric endured is almost unbelievable. Their testimonies had my stomach in knots. In my opinion I think prison was good for them. They got the intense therapy needed and are able to be happy finally. I heard many prisoners say that Lyle and Eric have helped many prisoners. I t is time for them to come home.
This was the MOST interesting night of information I’ve heard anywhere in an incredibly long time! Please have more of these women on your show, Joel. It gave me courage and knowledge I hadn’t heard. So wonderful are these fabulous BEST of the best on this topic ‼️❤️👍🌱😘
I love the long shows!!! I always enjoy when Wendy is on because she is very passionate and stands her ground on her opinions..I know a lot of people do not agree with her..but hey that's why the word "opinion" exist in our vocabulary. We don't always have to agree with someone's opinion..but they're entitled to their opinion just like we are entitled to ours..Also not everything is black and white.. I agree with both Ann and Wendy that the brothers should be released..if not they should get a new trial and all the abuse stuff should come in..I hope they just get released so we can put time and money towards other stuff and not a whole new trial. Thanks Joel and guests for a wonderful show!!!
This case is probably one of the cases I’ve seen the most disinformation about online. People will be wrong and get mad if you correct them and say “well they still should be in prison for life”. Anyway, Erik DID try to leave but his father wouldn’t allow him to live on campus at UCLA (which is verified by Jose’s sister, Marta because he told her during her visit for Erik’s high school graduation a couple of months before the murders, that Erik was going to stay home instead of living in the dorm he had paid for (he also bragged about paying under the table about getting Erik’s application accepted late because Erik initially wanted to go to Brown or UC Berkeley but he never sent the Brown application, who wanted him for a tennis scholarship, which was found in his office desk drawer filled out after the parents were killed) because he was having “psychological problems” and because of his learning disability, so Jose and Kitty would supervise his work). And Wendy is right about homophobia because we know from a book written by a juror for Erik, Hazel Thornton, that the male jurors argued for weeks about Erik’s sexuality, as if that had anything to do with anything. Anyway, this was a good episode and I really enjoyed the more technical stuff pertaining to the legal system and abuse victims, etc.
Bothe Lyle and Erik should be in prison for life. The publicity surrounding their case is just a social contagion, people get swept in and join the bandwagon.
@@tflg3257 EXACTLY!!! NO ONE ever talks about José was also concerned because his sons helped commit several burglaries in the Los Angeles area, taking about $100,000 in jewelry and cash the previous year. José reportedly made a deal with the district attorney to get Erik - who was still a minor - a slap on the wrist in exchange for pleading guilty, while both brothers were required to enter counseling. Homicide detectives wondered if money could have been the motive after learning Lyle and Erik stood to inherit $650,000 in the event of their father’s death, as well as the multi-million-dollar mansion. Suspicions were raised when Lyle and Erik used the life insurance money to make head-turning purchases, including a Porsche Carrera, Rolex watches, and a $60,000-per-year tennis coach for Lyle’s continued lessons. Lyle also purchased his own chicken wing restaurant back in New Jersey. Leads ran dry, until months later, in March 1990, when a woman named Judalon Smyth went to detectives. Smyth claimed her former boyfriend, a psychologist named Dr. Jerome Oziel - who’d professionally seen the brothers over the previous burglary charges - disclosed that Lyle and Erik made in-session confessions to killing their parents.
Lyle and Erik Menendez bought two shotguns with cash. The next day, the brothers drove to a shooting range. And the following night, they murdered Jose and Mary Louise "Kitty" Menendez as the couple ate ice cream and watched a movie in their Beverly Hills mansion. "No! No! No!" Jose Menendez, their 45-year-old father, yelled as shotgun blasts echoed in the family's living room on Aug. 20, 1989, the brothers would later tell a therapist. He was struck five times, including in the back of the head. Their 47-year-old mother, wounded, crawled on the ground as the brothers reloaded before administering a final fatal blast. They deserve life.
@@kelliintexas3575 Speaking of disinformation, your post is full of that. The estate wasn't settled until after they were arrested, and they testified that they were told by their father in 1988 that they were out of the will, and their uncle corroborated that, as Jose told him the same thing. Anything they bought after their parents' deaths, they had to get approval from their relatives. Their buying of shotguns has never been disputed, (their parents owned guns as well) and they bought the guns to protect themselves. Jose and Kitty were NOT eating ice cream, that's a myth. If you watch the crime scene footage from when the police first arrived on the scene, there was an empty glass on the coffee table; there was another empty glass in the kitchen. The medical examiner determined (and stated during his testimony) that the parents were standing when the shooting began. It's really strange how pro-prosecution people act as if they are experts on this case when all they do is spew myths and lies. Watching the first trial would give you the correct information, such as the prosecution was never able to prove the greed theory, including the in the second trial.
Great show, i hope they let the brother's out. The chat seemed a bit confused about the mother, and the whole thing about a man raping his son, and the mother doing nothing. The people who get it, are those who have lived to tell, and when i say live, i mean they didn't suicide over it, and were able to mentally overcome the trauma. I thank G-d for getting me through it all without taking my own life. Joel, thanks for bringing on such great guest's, because people do need educating. I can't believe your channel hasn't blown up by now, must be being censored. G-d bless everyone.
This was so informative about the law and also about the effects of trauma. Reading the live chat comments about similar reactions to it as well was enlightening. And no ads! Some of STS shows have them every few minutes.
I have so much admiration and respect for Dr. Anne. She is, indeed, a legend! She is a kind, caring and humble person. I can't say the same about Wendy Murphy but for the first time I agree with her commentary in favor of Eric and Lyle.
It's an atrocity the entirety of abuse wasn't allowed to be presented in the other trial. What was the motive to set up an unfair bias to include bits and pieces, if that, but not the whole of what the brothers experienced? The scary part is how influential and powerful their father was being of means and high standing with RCA, having the advantage of money, a society and cultural stand point at that time to help favor his false image. Unfortunately the abuse they endured wasn't imaginable to happen then within the male gender, and within a family, especially father to sons. It was horrible to even hear bits of the trial which seemed to angle as if this sort of deviancy from their father could possibly be at their consent? There seemed to be questions asking the brothers if they wanted to participate in what their father did? Gross and awful, and the judge/court system should be ashamed. Let anyone have people they know and love go through such awful experiences and see how an opinion could be changed to close down on pedophiles, abuse, incest, etc. It's heart breaking the brothers were looking for a way out before the murders for themselves and possibly their mother, only to see she too was a participant/accomplice/facilitator of the abuse. A lot of times it seemed they were worried and wanting to protect for her safety too and how their father also controlled her until she showed to be so similar in nature to their father.
Jose Menendez actually did hire prostitutes, a madam who be would hire prostitutes from said he requested a 12 year old prostitute (which luckily didn't happen) but it shows how he had a thing for kids
It’s so weird the way the narrative worked - I STILL have a hard time believing them. I don’t know what to believe since my gut feeling has been - and still is - that they are lying about the sexual abuse. I believe Jose was an authoritarian, and abusive, but I just can’t get there with the sexual abuse part. I think it bothered me how much they just moved on spending money, buying cars and watches, and partying, and trying to impress their peers. So I disagreed with some of the ladies’ commentary - the boys gave away watches to be approved of by their peers - that’s a big motivation for young adult sons…. Lastly, the anti-death penalty lobby is very strong amongst lawyers, Californians, politicians, and liberals … just look at the innocent project BS surrounding so many DP cases. I’d argue that if the DA didn’t go for the DP in this case, no one would be talking about this now. So interesting … good show!
@hlowrylong years later, their father has been accused of sexual assault from someone in the music industry. Most mothers know what their husband's are doing , and she turned a blind eye. Sick
Another great show! I didn't realize the son had been abused. That sheds a completely different light on everything. Joel, you truly do have the best guests!
They haven’t proved sexual abuse. This is a new thing occurring in society. They also want Scott Peterson out! Mr Menendez isn’t here to defend himself! Another thing, why did they kill their mother?
Once again we had experts on trauma and sexual abuse who actually evaluated the brothers to explain the complexities behind abuse, incest and trauma, only to have a bunch of ignorant people claiming victims can “just leave” and complaining that rich kids spent money Unbelievable
U said it right Leticia… ignorant ppl cus they don’t put themselves in someone else’s shoes… let them go thru the same and see how they’ll sing another song
Looking back on the media coverage and response to this case it is a stain on our society. Can you imagine what someone who was a victim of sexual abuse at the hands of their parent watching this coverage might’ve thought as they watched these two young men being villainized for their claims of sexual abuse simply because they came from a wealthy family?? Wonder how much longer they might’ve waited to come forward as a result of hearing how the Menendez brothers were treated by our society. Such a shame.
I am certain that was the goal....statistically there must have been some perpetrators influencing the case. I can't explain otherwise why there was so much gaslighting involved to create the false and strong perception about the brothers characters and the case.
1:13:26 👏👏👏 go Ms Murphy. No child should live a childhood filled with TERROR. 🎉 AND Dr Burgess with just pure genius ❤ groundbreaking show, thank you 😊
No doubt they BOTH need to be released!!! There are people who were convicted of 1st degree murder that were sentenced to less time and were granted parole
My mother knew and then blamed us when the ‘secret’ was finally out. I was 11, my sister was 10, and our youngest sister was 5 when the abuse started. When my 10 year old sister turned 15, she had one period, and then she was pregnant.
I'm so sorry you and your sisters had to endure this! I'll NEVER understand how a mother can sit by and either ignore or accept such abuse. In some ways I feel that a mother/parent who does this is worse than the abuser. As a mother, it is our job to protect our children! When I discovered my (now ex) husband molesting my daughter, I made him leave IMMEDIATELY. In fact, it took every ounce of restraint that I could muster not to murder the bastard. Thankfully I had a moment of clarity and realized that if I were to attack him that my children would have a dead father and I (their mother) would be in prison for murdering him. I got my daughter into counseling, reported my ex to the authorities and divorced him. That was 20 years ago and I don't regret it one bit. I had my daughter in individual and group therapy. During the group therapy we mothers participated. It literally blew my mind at the amount of women who were still with their daughter's abusers!
@@deniece0821 Thank you for sharing your healthy reaction to your daughters’ abuse! I believe we heal by talking about it and you got her talking immediately. How beautiful a mother you are! In the sexual trauma unit in a psychiatric hospital they gave this example. I you see an accident on the way to workplace you share that with your coworkers. Far from being salacious, your talking is healing you from witnessing someone else’s trauma. You talk about it until you don’t need to anymore.
One thing I would like to say is neither one of the Menendez brothers ever claimed to be completely innocent, especially for the duration of their actual trials, and neither one of them expected or believed they deserved to be fully acquitted. They were both hoping for either manslaughter or 2nd degree convictions. They were 💯 horrifically abused in every way imaginable and were battered people. Had they been the Menendez sisters instead of brothers, I 💯 believe there would have been a different outcome. Just look at the cases of Francine Hughes and Gypsy Rose Blanchard. In the first trial, prosecutor Pam Bozanitch absurdly claimed that men could not be SA-ed because they lacked the anatomical equipment to be SA-ed. The other prosecutor Lester Kuriyama attempted to delegitimize Erik’s ongoing 12 years of SA by claiming he was secretly gay and inwardly homophobic and didn’t want to admit he liked it, despite the fact that throughout his life he has only had romantic relationships with women as significant others. Would that homophobia and/or blatant disregard for the experiences of male survivors of SA fly as a prosecution technique in a courtroom if the case were to be tried today? Absolutely NOT. I as well as a lot of SA survivors have claimed that their testimonies were too specific to be made up in any way and from just from my own experience I could relate to how they survived all the SA by all the little things they said. Erik described his peculiar fixation for eating lemons all the time in order to survive his ongoing SA. I did the EXACT SAME THING to survive my SA. Lyle hoarded stuffed animals to such an extent he gave them characters, personalities, and stories whenever he got a chance to play by himself in his home up until age 17. I did almost the exact same thing too to survive my SA, even though I will admit I wasn’t as old as Lyle when I finally stopped playing with the stuffed animals. If you really look at the little pieces and actually discuss this case with the abuse survivors community as well as experts who specialize in treating and legally advocating for survivors of SA, you will see that the ONLY thing that makes sense within the context of the brothers’ trial is that their abuse was 💯 real. Before you all throw me to the wolves let me be clear here: I am NOT advocating for people taking the law into their own hands and committing homicides based on vigilante justice. I also do 💯 believe they could have and should have chosen another option to escape their abuse other than killing their abusers by their own hands. At the same time, if someone feels hypervigilant, battered, terrorized, and trapped in a house of all kinds of abusive horrors with what they believe they had absolutely no escape from, then their ability to see every one of their options would clearly be diminished. So do I believe they should not have killed? Yes. Do I also believe that their killings though not justified were entirely understandable? ALSO YES. As journalist Robert Rand who has been reporting on their case for decades now has consistently stated, NOTHING gives you a free pass to kill mom and dad and they did absolutely deserve to be held accountable for their crime and spend some time in prison. However, once you take a look at the full picture of the case, I do believe the evidence for it shows that it was either a manslaughter under Imperfect Self Defense or a 2nd degree murder at BEST or WORST, depending on how you choose to look at it in regards to either a prosecution or a defense point of view, and not a 1st degree murder deserving of the possibility of them either facing the death penalty or life in prison without the possibility of parole. And based on ALL OF THAT WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY STATED in consideration with the time they’ve each already served while incarcerated being 30+ years, the fact that all things considered they’ve been relatively model inmates, and the fact that in all their recent interviews it’s clear they have genuine remorse for what they did and recognize they should not have done it and still want to help other survivors, I say there’s only one right thing to do that would be serving them justice, right now in 2023: #FreeTheMenendezBrothers
You are living your life through them as if they're the poster children for abuse, which they are not. Horrifically abused in every way imaginable? But all of Lyle and Erik's evidence is "he said, she said." Their case doesn't do service for the many victims of actual horrific abuse.
@@tflg3257 As a survivor of abuse, myself, the abuser does not do the vile things when witnesses are around. Abuse is hard to prove, but leaves emotional scars.
@tflg3257 there’s way more evidence than “he said, he said.” The most important of which is Roy Rosello, a member of the band Jose managed, came out and said he was also raped by Jose. But there is more if you want to hear.
Having been watching the trial the last few days, I want to point out that the mother sexually abused Lyle, aside from her other faults. Too many people consider her a bystander.
Please please let them free!!! Their parents were f…… horrible! I cannot believe they were found guilty to spend that kind of time in jail all these years! I’ve never been molested or raped in my life but for some reason every time I hear the words, I absolutely am mortified to try to imagine how anyone could feel being treated like that. It is so disgusting to me and leaves me in such fear and I’m 71.!! These boys were absolutely tortured and they should’ve been set free from the very beginning!! I pray they get a few years of normal life, both of them!!!! 💖💝💕💓😘
They werent boys they were LEGAL MEN at the time of the killing. They went back to the car and reloaded the gun to bang bang more. They were cut out of the will. People of abuse dont kill. They were at an age they could have left..
If I'm not mistaken there was some pretty severe physical abuse, also. Im pretty sure there were family members and tennis trainers who witnessed José physically hit and choke Lyle and Erik.
NO ONE ever talks about José was also concerned because his sons helped commit several burglaries in the Los Angeles area, taking about $100,000 in jewelry and cash the previous year. José reportedly made a deal with the district attorney to get Erik - who was still a minor - a slap on the wrist in exchange for pleading guilty, while both brothers were required to enter counseling. Homicide detectives wondered if money could have been the motive after learning Lyle and Erik stood to inherit $650,000 in the event of their father’s death, as well as the multi-million-dollar mansion. Suspicions were raised when Lyle and Erik used the life insurance money to make head-turning purchases, including a Porsche Carrera, Rolex watches, and a $60,000-per-year tennis coach for Lyle’s continued lessons. Lyle also purchased his own chicken wing restaurant back in New Jersey. Leads ran dry, until months later, in March 1990, when a woman named Judalon Smyth went to detectives. Smyth claimed her former boyfriend, a psychologist named Dr. Jerome Oziel - who’d professionally seen the brothers over the previous burglary charges - disclosed that Lyle and Erik made in-session confessions to killing their parents.
@@kelliintexas3575 You are literally spamming the same uninformed rant on every comment you get the chance or feel the need to. Stop it, get some help 👨🏾🦲.
Let's do not forget that Menudo guy back then was still in the industry and of course trying to help his family out financially he kind of had to keep quiet about the abuse he endured to the point of anal injury and bleeding profusely
Wow wow wow that is disgusting that a person who has gone through sexual assault can’t be on a jury, but a person who has assaulted can be on a jury Must be a lot of Judges that have been sexual assaulted,as has been in the history of abused women.
The mother did not want to give up her lifestyle and her status in the community. Clearly she did not care about her boys only herself! She was stone cold.!!!
Kitty was a victim of Jose (and she didn't deserve _that_ ), but she was also a perpetrator and enabler. If she had taken Lyle and Erik the first time she witnessed the abuse and just left Jose, none of this would ever have happened !
I am a trauma survivor and abuse of any kind is an ugly thing and stays with the victims for a lifetime. However I cannot justify Erik and Lyle murdering there parents but they were extremely terrible parents with no natural affection. I don't care how much money Jose shelled out for his sons or for his wife. Also it doesn't take away from her molestation of her sons or abuse of her sons but Kitty was a victim of Jose's as well. When Lyle was 10 he walked in on Jose raping Kitty. There upbringing and family dynamic was extremely traumatic and dysfunctional. When Lyle came to visit for Erik's graduation he stayed in the guest house not in the family home although they had 7-8 bedrooms. That tells you everything you need to know. Anyways I hope Erik and Lyle learned that the only people who really stuck by them when they went to prison was there family and Leslie Abrahamson. So they would be idiots to cheat on there wives who have stuck by them loyally when they were sentenced to life in prison (not having anything to offer a wife except there personality)and made a ton of sacrifices to stand by them. People definitely judged those women and treated them bad for making the decision to marry Lyle and Erik. But I hope Lyle and Erik are faithful and appreciate what they have. Its nice Erik married Tammie and she alowed him to be the step father of her daughter. Because he wasn't getting to be a father any other way. Thats a very special thing. There wives also saw the positive in them while the world thought they were heartless serial killers. Im glad Erik and Lyle are rehabilitating prisoners and I cannot wait to have them slowly and quietly intergrate into society. -Lots of love from a trauma survivor
He did hire prostitutes. Cheri Woods, a Madame in Hollywood/Beverly Hills came forward. Also, Jose Menendez was a sadomasochist and a sex addict. It didn't matter to him if the person was male or female, young or his age. Sadomasochism is in the DSM, paraphilia as well, but sexual addiction is described in other ways. He was a sexual deviant. Sick, sick man with a host of other issues.
I’ve been in STS Nation long enough to know Geragos has already been on the show ❤ one of my favorite old school interviews was with Georgia Cappelman ❤❤❤❤ #STSNATION
@@christinefougere Yes, because they didn’t exhibit all of the symptoms that the past 30 years of research has shown that they would exhibit! (Sarcasm) I really hope you don’t have children.
Wendy is A M A Z I N G !!!! I LOVE AND ADMIRE HER PASSION! She has raised excellent points about the justice system in how really it is the “INJUSTICE SYSTEM.” I learned so much from her about how court cases often do not result as they often should because the jurors who can understand a victim are immediately dismissed without argument! Instead, the jurors who can think like the perpetrator are left to sit on the jury and set these monsters free!! This gives whole new meaning to, “The judicial system is BROKEN.” You bet it is!! How do we change that for victims all across the country? Why has it not been changed? We have very intellectual scholars today who can be learned from! WHY IS EVERYTHING TO THE BENEFIT OF THE PERPETRATOR!!?? Is there anyone left in positions of power who WANT TO DO RIGHT BY PEOPLE!!??
I feel as if abuse has to be mentioned regarding the mother of the guys as well…at least verbal abuse and her knowing what was happening but ignoring it…no reporting was done.🤷♀️
New subscriber!! This is my 2nd show...I'm still drying my eyes from the first with Kerri Rawson , Ann and some lovely Dr. man.😢 This case here ..the bros have been close to my heart since i was a teenager. I'm sending boatloads of energy towards their freedom💚💚💚. The two trials were a crock and these 2 boys never got any support for the horrific abuse they suffered at the parents hands. Ridiculous. Unacceptable! The rapes should have been dealt with before the murders. Free Eric and Lyle. And then give them both, a big appology for no one coming to their rescue as children...then locking them in cages for almost thirty years! Enough!!
An important topic and thank you for adding some meaning to it. Any society that wants to be healthy has to give priority to meaning against pleasure and power. When it comes to meaning, "why" is the most important question, for example, why psychopaths are always some kind of addicts and what does addiction do for them? Why was abuse present behind closed doors earlier and nowadays is usually more transparent? Why are people allowed to kill in self-defense when a person can be terrorized by a mosquito, so is terror the cause of murder, or is the lack of self-regulation? When we have a clear why, we can measure how realistic it is to apply the "why" under the circumstances. Under these circumstances, the Menendez brothers deserve a second chance because if we kill meaning, we kill health, only paranoia and ignorance are left. What I mean, do you know who asks the most whys? Children do and intuitive people do. If the previous trial was protecting the law, which is power, and protecting victims, which is safety (the pleasure of comfort), the new trial should also protect meaning. And meaning is not nurtured only in court, but in a family, in education, in society, etc. 1:15:15 Take care.
It disturbs me and makes me a bit angry that the Menuto band member who FINALLY opened his mouth, waited this long and now, whether they are released or not, they have been institutionalized, and will never have a normal life as we know it. I pray for those boys that they find as close to a normal life that they can for the rest of their lives.
Really? Put yourself in Roy’s shoes where you are a teenager in a popular music band in the 80’s, getting SA by the manager on an ongoing basis and in exchange for a record deal you are the sacrifice by getting drugged and SA by the music executive. That doesn’t sound like something easy to come out. Add culture and shame added on top of being a male. Unfortunately it happened this way and Roy had the courage to finally expose Edgardo Diaz and Jose Menendez. This continues today and everyone suffers at the cost of young innocent children/teens.
I’m sorry but if we are to understand victims handle abuse differently, as with what happened with the brothers, we also have to accept that Roy processed his abuse and the trauma from that differently.
As a survivor, imo Wendy Murphy is exactly on point as to how the abused felt back when these boys were in the news. Especially when living in a wealthy household.
I can’t comprehend how come the judge could be so heartless to have disallowed sexual abuse as defense on their second trial after having seen many witnesses testimonies and evidences that confirmed the sexual abuse claim by the brothers, he should be held accountable!!! How flawed the justice system was, poor guys!! They must be freed, the court has trialed them so unfairly
Because they kept losing high profile cases and I’m pretty sure it also had to do with money. I don’t know if not winning cases results in funding, but it’s a fkd up system. It seems like the brothers were abused also by the justice system when the SA wasn’t allowed on the 2nd trial .
You don't go to a murder trial to argue an "excuse" for executing people. It was a brutal murder. All the SA did was prevent them from getting death row
I cannot believe they were victimized a second time when Uncle did not produce the letter for their trial. What kind of family is this? Horrid and tragic
I think the brothers should be freed. I believe the brothers, and I think their parents were mentally ill monsters. I think they threatened to tell people what Jose was doing to them, and I think Jose threatened to kill them. It's easy to say that the brothers should have just moved away, but i think they were afraid of being found if they left and what Jose would do to them. I think the brothers were tortured literally, emotionally, mentally, physically. I believe the murders were manslaughter, and I believe that they should have been released after 10 or 15 years. They have suffered enough already.
Yikes! This is the one subject that gets the most passionate response from both sides in chat! I’ll refrain from giving my opinion since I know it won’t change anything…
But u still said something… and everybody is entitled to say what they feel about whatever subject… why?… cus of things like this case… the “mom” and “dad” abusing them and acting like they were a happy fam… like many other families out there… covering the abuse… something we should let out there for ppl not to act surprise when something violent happens… but then again justice is blind and the parents acted just as justice
My father molested me and I am a Woman now.. I can't imagine how hard it would be for a man in that time Woman now.. I can't imagine how hard it would be for a man in that time Is to be able to be understand and admit to that. What a lot of people don't realize is the amount of shame that comes with it. I still can't fully tell my husband what happened to me by my own fother, I literally just hint around and I'm 50 years old. They Need to let them out a prison immediately
@@joan7151 no. I actually cared for him through his brain cancer until he passed. Most people don't resort to murder. I can tell you though that I am 50 and still carry shame even though I know I did nothing wrong. We are all different and handle things differently. I am sure it's more difficult for men.
In live chat (which I missed, darn it) there are hundreds of comments by people who have no clue how and why the abused feel as we do. Of course I understand but there remains a huge disconnect. I’m all for the brothers to be released now. 🌱 I wish we could hear more from Ann, next time. Great stuff tonight, Joel ❤
Joan, not all abused children have to also fear for their life like Erik and Lyle had to. It was a quite unique case in that way. However many children get killed by their abusive parents. Luckily the Menendez brothers could safe their lives from their disgusting parents. If you feel that raping a child is ok and that the Menendez brothers should still be in jail than go and watch the entire trial.
Really illuminating podcast. I’ve been looking for info after I started the Netflix monsters. The young actor that plays lyle was my reason to watch having seen his one and only other acting in general hospital as Spenser. I’m a fan. But unfortunately Nicolas Chavez is playing this role in many ways that most likely did not happen as to the producers and it’s made me question. Thank you for this podcast.
In my country, murder is max 30 years. Possible psychiatric sentence on top of it, which can mean life. I remember the Menendez case ( I was 19) and indeed the sexual-abuse-or-not topic. I can now see it is very true. They were terrorized, but also tortured, especially Erik, IMO. Great to hear Ann's experiences and thoughts working with the case back then.
Lyle was terrorized in different ways. Less sexually, but all those talks he had to have with his father, sometimes for hours listening to the strategies and politics are a form of mental abuse.
Why didn’t they move out of the house if they were so scared? Both chose to live at home. Dad tried to set up the older one in business out of state. But, as a spoiled failure he came home. The other one was 19! It must have just been awful when Dad supported him to travel all over the world for tennis !!! HE came home to live also.
@@barbara2002 Look up Learned Helpless. Erik was 18 at the time and had just graduated from high school. He was set to move into a dorm in September and Lyle was going back to Princeton (his parents had bought a condo for him there). You really should research this case.
Amen to Wendy. Loved the rant. I am the mother of a boy who was sexually assaulted by his father. His first childhood memory is of his father assaulting him.
Dr. Burgess- Much respect. Thank you for supporting the TRUTH.
Very well said. I was right on the edge of becoming a murderer myself. Even at twelve, I knew coming forward meant they would go to my abusers and ask if it was true? I was cut off from communicating with our father's family. My father got a court order before my plan was implemented. I rather be in prison than a slave any longer to this man.
Yes, I wouldn't talk about the abuse publicly until my children were grown up. I never wanted to kill but for these kind of abusers. It is the only real way to stop the abuse. My abuser is on Megan's List. He was already a convicted offender when our sadistic mother brought him into our homes. I still, so many years later, have family members bring up the abuse as if I did something wrong. They lie about my ages during the abuses. Because he was in the military when convicted, his case was sealed. Which is insane. Made worse because the miliatary has not parole board and do not follow dishonorabley discharged soldiers.
Because I was taught suicide was the one unforgivable sin, that is the only reason I was debating which way to go. I had the problem that if I went to prison, it would leave my mother open to bringing another brutal offender into our home and there would be no one to protect my younger brothers.
By not having LE investigate our case, I have had to live my life always looking behind me. Carring the guilt of not risking going to trial because I was being told our case wasn't strong enough. It wasn't because even doctor's didn't want to know the truth. No xrays. Scars on my knees. I had to train, to make sure if he ever came at me for revenge, I will k him. Children should not have to grow-up and live out their lives knowing someone so terrible is free and a threat to the well-being of children. I was always worried about the safety of my family. That one of them might take revenge at me by going after my children.
In our case too, the defense stated I was lying because I wanted all of my mother's attention. Thankfully, the court didn't fall for this since we were in court to escape her custody not to stay. But upon reflection, we had a very strong case. If only LE were allowed to talk to teachers, friends, neighbors, and xrays were taken. As well as setting up a three way conversation. They couldn't maintain their control over me without threats of retaliations. It is ridiculous to call it entrapment when children get a recorded confession.
Yes, if and when that day ever happens. When children can come forward and have a safe home to escape to. I know how fortunate I was to have my paternal grandmother and aunt pushed my father to get a court order. Knowing so many cases where teachers, family and friends report abuses and the children were forced to have to face their abusers for retaliations. Victims know their abusers can either murder them or sell them. They would be gone before anyone even cared that your disappeared.
When your mother forces you to comply with your abuser. My mother turned me into the other woman but I was a young girl. I would argue with her to make it stop but she told me it was my role to stop him. It was a contridiction. My mother wanted his money, his control over us. My mother was not being abused. She was in control. She gave him the board he would hit me with. When I begged her to protect me? I was told this was my fault and I deserved to be abused. Later in life. She was the victim. She was using me to keep control over her monster. She tried for years to gain control back over me. Not quite what you would expect from someone who claims you were seducing her convict boyfriend to steal him away from her. Truth be told I could have easily done it and avoided all of the pain and suffering. I hated him. He enjoyed seeing me suffer and knowing I couldn't stop him.
This Menendez Case was difficult because we didn't learn of the abuse until much later into the case. All that you are now saying I never heard any of these details. So horrible. As you are saying these details are unique and make their case of abuse a lot more believable.
Sorry you went through this abuse ❤❤
@@louisepowell1793 Thank you for caring. I speak up now because I am one of the lucky ones. Too many were erased by their abusers. Didn't have my grandmother to save us. I feel I have to be more than grateful. We have to speak our truth for those still suffering.
Many contiue to suffer because our legal system doesn't want to deal with abusers. Feel helpless because of CPS failures and Foster Care nightmares.
It is up to us, to take the power away from abusers. We have to embolden abused children. Force families to step up and stop CA. Many times I find family sees or fears abuse but to keep the family together or to avoid conflict? They support the abusers.
Wow, the Stephen Sterns case is a prime example of how family refuses to take big steps to end abuse. They put it upon a child to fight off abusers when many give abusers, parents rights to harm children when it is illegal to harm adults.
Religion is suppose to be about instruction and self-control yet some promote violence to dominate. And think they are Christian. But they are not.
CPS needs to be stronger. We need oversight. Stop pushing abused children back into bad homes. Especially if beatings/CSA is involved. This is the abusers nature. A class or some rehab will not change their spots or heal an abused child who has been taught to become an abuser or an enabler.
I can say my bounderies were warped because our abuse was so severe. I had to have someone teach me what good bounderies are and how to manage a life full of angry flashbacks. How to manage anger in healthy way that will not hurt me inside.
This is such a difficult case. I must lean on Anne's years of study to trust her judgment.
The military still chooses to cover up abuse. I was abused growing up. You grow up with no self esteem or friends. I’m 70 yrs old and struggle with self esteem today.
This is a very sad way to have experienced your childhood. I’m sorry your mother didn’t protect you from this monster.
What a horrific story , you are a strong woman❤sending you love from Poland
Was watching her at the trial she was brilliant i hope the brother s are released soon ❤
🙏🙏
As a child of SA and abuse, I feel for these two men. I hope they do get new trials. My understanding evidence withheld and their family wanting them freed. I hope they do get set free.
Did you off anyone? I bet not.
@@2Ryled
What If It Was Proven That They Acted In Self Defence Would Then Have A Problem With That 🤔
Ms Anne, I absolutely adore her. My father studied under her guidance in the late 80 s early 1990 I feel like I grew up listening to her work and words . I love love her
Free them already - we have brutal murderers and rapists who got less for just as if not more heinous for NO reason crimes. Just read an interview with their aunt, Jose’s sister, who said Jose was sick with his own traumas and she thinks Erik and Lyle should be freed. They paid their debt to society let them do something good with the rest of their lives.
🙏🙏
Just let them out been in there long enough they deserve to be free parents were wrong what they did them free
I wonder where there's info about the parents childhoods? I heard Kitty's father had anger issues and abused his wife
Absolutely awesome. Truly blown away by these brilliant women. Thanks so much.
One of the two is brilliant yes
It's mind-numbing how some people pretend like all violence is morally equal regardless of circumstance and perceive them as a threat to society despite the fact that, outside of their relationship with their parents, there are zero (0) reports of them being violent toward anybody else in their entire lives (even in prison, an environment that's rampant with and facilitates violence)
^^^
Well done, Ruby Red.
It’s also weird how people say “all murder is equal” when even in the court of law, that’s not the case lol. If it was, we wouldn’t have 1st degree, 2nd degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, etc.
Amen. You put it so well!
I think they would have killed anyone for that money.
As a survivor of 48 years of abuse, I LOVE the passion of your guests! Very well said!
48 years actually abused? Or still living to age 48 after having been abused earlier? So sorry 😞
I know it all too well all the abuse in the world i have seen you are great keep going i do everyday it takes work but keep going i am proud of myself what i overcame i know you can ❤
So excited to hear this! I think the Menendez brothers was one of the first cases that got me into true crime with the nuance of "I think this person did it, but maybe there was actually a reason".
Not saying I would ever condone murder, but this one was definitely one to ponder on.
Hey STS, Joel and honorable guests!
Joel, GREAT PODCAST!!! We are not at all “bleeding hearts”!
We choose to take a stand against abuse and are compassionate towards children who had endured years of the most heinous cruelty
one could imagine!!! Imagine if you or someone you loved were being raped repeatedly and threatened with bodily harm if they told anyone about it just try to understand how you would feel!
It is true: He who sees evil being practiced and does not take a stand against it is actually cooperating with it.
YES
I really want to hear Anne speak ..I’ve always thought these boys were abused by their father
I did too… I think and feel they paid already… the same way the parents did too… the trauma stay forever and suffering in jail for 33 yrs it’s enough… and tbh I think the judge was a pedophile himself for not allowing the evidence in the sec trial
@@TheMamita823 I agree w/ you! And, if he wasn't a pedophile, he might as well have been one. It is disgraceful what that judge did. He helped set the tone against the Menendez Brothers. Is that exactly legal? A real question 🤔 It doesn't seem right to me and can the judge's actions & decisions be considered outright prejudice against the brothers? Or is that judge the type who holds a belief that the brother's deserved the abuse they received, which again, is the same stance. I sincerely hope that the brothers are released from prison. Enough is enough.
@@cheatednomore6430I completely agree with you and the others. It's enough, let them go. Many Judges are sick Narcissists.
It goes right to the top. Prince Charles was best friends with Jimmy Saville. He knew what Jimmy was into. It's demonic lu st.
why?
@@TheMamita823what evidence??
My aunt is in her 80’s and just recently told me that she was raped when she was a teenager by someone we all knew. She’d never told anyone. I always knew she hated that man but had no idea why. The suffering is real and lasts a long time
Considering their history & relationship, I think it was the height of cruelty to separate Lyle & Eric upon their imprisonment.
The only reason they did that was Lyle wrote Erik a letter, that was found in Erik's cell hidden, that outlined an escape plan from the jail. They separated them so they would not escape; altho in hindsight, it was cruel to separate them as they were very close. They d-i-d kill their parents with shot guns point-blank in cold blood (even reloaded just to make sure the mom was dead), when at 18/19 and 21 and completely lied about it, when they could have easily just walked away (not shot anyone)...but they would have had to walk away from their family and the millions. If you saw the Netflix series and believe it's mostly accurate, they were VERY concerned where the latest will was held that their dad said wrote them out of the will; at one time, Erik was tasked to sleep with their dad's safe that they thought the new will would be in-if they didn't care about the $, why would they do that? Lyle has witnesses that he tried to get to lie and say that his dad did something to them or that he had told them that he was afraid for his life, when he first got arrested; and he is on recording to a woman who was helping him write a book, that he could con juries because he can cry on command (and other damning statements). Remember, on the 911 call Lyle made, he fake cried, and then said that "someone" (from the mafia the boys said) killed their parents. These young men just weren't defenseless little boys at the time of the shootings, altho what their dad did to them was despicable and he was obviously a huge bully. I think the shootings were from the anger they understandably had toward their dad (and their mom, who didn't defend them), and not from them being at all afraid for their lives. Did the $ have anything to do with it...maybe, maybe not. Having said that, I think it should have been manslaughter because of the mitigating circumstances...and the boys, now men, should be recharged and let out of prison, time served...but other commentators in LE have said that's just not going to happen at this late date, unfortunately.
absolutely agree!!😢
They are together now
@@bettywith2girls The “escape” story turned out to not be true.
If they weren’t going to let them tell their story why the hell did they let them have 2 trials in the first place? Seems like the second trial was conveniently placed in a way so that there could be no chance for an appropriate punishment…not fair at all..what about Jose’s carnage against his family not to mention a child star (Roy from Menudo - he was 14 for Christ’s sake) Not to mention the damage sexual abuse does to the still developing minds of children…Erik’s testimony is particularly heartbreaking and way too detailed to just be made up
Yes, you are right. That is exactly what happened, and I blame the judge for this miscarrage of justice.
huh??
Saw Dr Ann and clicked immediately!!
Same. Wanted to hear more from her.
Same and then we got Murphy
God help us
I’m out
@@louisejeffries7155 She definitely dominated the conversation.
I watch on replay and don’t comment often; you guys really DO have the best guests on every show, seriously. Anne is AMAZING and definitely a living legend, and i so admire Wendy and Wendy’s passion ( I would so love to work with her.) I hate to see the criticism in the comments of any of your guests . . . guests- please dont be discouraged by the easy, armchair haters. STS is absolutely outstanding at booking guests and Joel is amazing at directing/interviewing/listening during the conversations. STS- your team is outstanding, Bravo!
One of your best shows ever, Joel! Wendy and Ann are brilliant, love Wendy's passion❤
Wow! One guest dominated the conversation. Bothered me a lot.
I don't think so.
Dr Ann is more paused and nice to listen to. I couldn't finish the episode. Made me nervous.
I watched the entire televised trial and was shocked that people still think they are lying. As a child of a divorced mother I had to take care of my 2 younger siblings while she worked nights. I was ten with no support system and often had to make very adult decisions. Many were life and death and I remember the intense stress I felt. What Lyle and Eric endured is almost unbelievable. Their testimonies had my stomach in knots. In my opinion I think prison was good for them. They got the intense therapy needed and are able to be happy finally. I heard many prisoners say that Lyle and Eric have helped many prisoners. I t is time for them to come home.
This was the MOST interesting night of information I’ve heard anywhere in an incredibly long time!
Please have more of these women on your show, Joel. It gave me courage and knowledge I hadn’t heard. So wonderful are these fabulous BEST of the best on this topic ‼️❤️👍🌱😘
I admire Dr. Burgess so much. What a role model!
I love the long shows!!! I always enjoy when Wendy is on because she is very passionate and stands her ground on her opinions..I know a lot of people do not agree with her..but hey that's why the word "opinion" exist in our vocabulary. We don't always have to agree with someone's opinion..but they're entitled to their opinion just like we are entitled to ours..Also not everything is black and white..
I agree with both Ann and Wendy that the brothers should be released..if not they should get a new trial and all the abuse stuff should come in..I hope they just get released so we can put time and money towards other stuff and not a whole new trial.
Thanks Joel and guests for a wonderful show!!!
This case is probably one of the cases I’ve seen the most disinformation about online. People will be wrong and get mad if you correct them and say “well they still should be in prison for life”. Anyway, Erik DID try to leave but his father wouldn’t allow him to live on campus at UCLA (which is verified by Jose’s sister, Marta because he told her during her visit for Erik’s high school graduation a couple of months before the murders, that Erik was going to stay home instead of living in the dorm he had paid for (he also bragged about paying under the table about getting Erik’s application accepted late because Erik initially wanted to go to Brown or UC Berkeley but he never sent the Brown application, who wanted him for a tennis scholarship, which was found in his office desk drawer filled out after the parents were killed) because he was having “psychological problems” and because of his learning disability, so Jose and Kitty would supervise his work). And Wendy is right about homophobia because we know from a book written by a juror for Erik, Hazel Thornton, that the male jurors argued for weeks about Erik’s sexuality, as if that had anything to do with anything. Anyway, this was a good episode and I really enjoyed the more technical stuff pertaining to the legal system and abuse victims, etc.
Bothe Lyle and Erik should be in prison for life. The publicity surrounding their case is just a social contagion, people get swept in and join the bandwagon.
@@tflg3257 EXACTLY!!! NO ONE ever talks about José was also concerned because his sons helped commit several burglaries in the Los Angeles area, taking about $100,000 in jewelry and cash the previous year. José reportedly made a deal with the district attorney to get Erik - who was still a minor - a slap on the wrist in exchange for pleading guilty, while both brothers were required to enter counseling.
Homicide detectives wondered if money could have been the motive after learning Lyle and Erik stood to inherit $650,000 in the event of their father’s death, as well as the multi-million-dollar mansion. Suspicions were raised when Lyle and Erik used the life insurance money to make head-turning purchases, including a Porsche Carrera, Rolex watches, and a $60,000-per-year tennis coach for Lyle’s continued lessons. Lyle also purchased his own chicken wing restaurant back in New Jersey.
Leads ran dry, until months later, in March 1990, when a woman named Judalon Smyth went to detectives. Smyth claimed her former boyfriend, a psychologist named Dr. Jerome Oziel - who’d professionally seen the brothers over the previous burglary charges - disclosed that Lyle and Erik made in-session confessions to killing their parents.
Lyle and Erik Menendez bought two shotguns with cash. The next day, the brothers drove to a shooting range. And the following night, they murdered Jose and Mary Louise "Kitty" Menendez as the couple ate ice cream and watched a movie in their Beverly Hills mansion.
"No! No! No!" Jose Menendez, their 45-year-old father, yelled as shotgun blasts echoed in the family's living room on Aug. 20, 1989, the brothers would later tell a therapist. He was struck five times, including in the back of the head. Their 47-year-old mother, wounded, crawled on the ground as the brothers reloaded before administering a final fatal blast.
They deserve life.
@@kelliintexas3575 Speaking of disinformation, your post is full of that. The estate wasn't settled until after they were arrested, and they testified that they were told by their father in 1988 that they were out of the will, and their uncle corroborated that, as Jose told him the same thing. Anything they bought after their parents' deaths, they had to get approval from their relatives. Their buying of shotguns has never been disputed, (their parents owned guns as well) and they bought the guns to protect themselves. Jose and Kitty were NOT eating ice cream, that's a myth. If you watch the crime scene footage from when the police first arrived on the scene, there was an empty glass on the coffee table; there was another empty glass in the kitchen. The medical examiner determined (and stated during his testimony) that the parents were standing when the shooting began.
It's really strange how pro-prosecution people act as if they are experts on this case when all they do is spew myths and lies. Watching the first trial would give you the correct information, such as the prosecution was never able to prove the greed theory, including the in the second trial.
@@kelliintexas3575 spreading lies, misinformation with such ease shows what kind of person you really are. A shallow, nothing human being.
Great show, i hope they let the brother's out. The chat seemed a bit confused about the mother, and the whole thing about a man raping his son, and the mother doing nothing. The people who get it, are those who have lived to tell, and when i say live, i mean they didn't suicide over it, and were able to mentally overcome the trauma. I thank G-d for getting me through it all without taking my own life. Joel, thanks for bringing on such great guest's, because people do need educating. I can't believe your channel hasn't blown up by now, must be being censored. G-d bless everyone.
Sad realization: in hindsight the Mendez brothers never knew what it was like to be free despite all the money they had
This was so informative about the law and also about the effects of trauma. Reading the live chat comments about similar reactions to it as well was enlightening. And no ads! Some of STS shows have them every few minutes.
Ads, a few ,not bad.
I have so much admiration and respect for Dr. Anne. She is, indeed, a legend! She is a kind, caring and humble person. I can't say the same about Wendy Murphy but for the first time I agree with her commentary in favor of Eric and Lyle.
It's an atrocity the entirety of abuse wasn't allowed to be presented in the other trial. What was the motive to set up an unfair bias to include bits and pieces, if that, but not the whole of what the brothers experienced? The scary part is how influential and powerful their father was being of means and high standing with RCA, having the advantage of money, a society and cultural stand point at that time to help favor his false image. Unfortunately the abuse they endured wasn't imaginable to happen then within the male gender, and within a family, especially father to sons. It was horrible to even hear bits of the trial which seemed to angle as if this sort of deviancy from their father could possibly be at their consent? There seemed to be questions asking the brothers if they wanted to participate in what their father did? Gross and awful, and the judge/court system should be ashamed. Let anyone have people they know and love go through such awful experiences and see how an opinion could be changed to close down on pedophiles, abuse, incest, etc.
It's heart breaking the brothers were looking for a way out before the murders for themselves and possibly their mother, only to see she too was a participant/accomplice/facilitator of the abuse. A lot of times it seemed they were worried and wanting to protect for her safety too and how their father also controlled her until she showed to be so similar in nature to their father.
Dr. Ann *I'm not here to make jokes, I'm here to solve this case* Burgess....love her!
Jose Menendez actually did hire prostitutes, a madam who be would hire prostitutes from said he requested a 12 year old prostitute (which luckily didn't happen) but it shows how he had a thing for kids
And this was at the same time he was raping his own kids
He sounded like such a sick and depraved monster.
Yeah and the girls he did get he hurt and scared so badly he was cut off
What's the name of this madam? Everybody's making new accusations all of a sudden.
I don’t remember her name but this was information that I believe was known at the time of the first trial.
Woop! Two female legends! Love these women, thank you!
You mean _legends_ ?
I agree. Absolutely stunning 🤩 🤩
Holy cow!! I am going to have to go back and rewatch now with this discussion in mind
I watched that trial live and always believed they were molested by their father.
I agree 100%
It’s so weird the way the narrative worked - I STILL have a hard time believing them. I don’t know what to believe since my gut feeling has been - and still is - that they are lying about the sexual abuse. I believe Jose was an authoritarian, and abusive, but I just can’t get there with the sexual abuse part.
I think it bothered me how much they just moved on spending money, buying cars and watches, and partying, and trying to impress their peers.
So I disagreed with some of the ladies’ commentary - the boys gave away watches to be approved of by their peers - that’s a big motivation for young adult sons….
Lastly, the anti-death penalty lobby is very strong amongst lawyers, Californians, politicians, and liberals … just look at the innocent project BS surrounding so many DP cases. I’d argue that if the DA didn’t go for the DP in this case, no one would be talking about this now.
So interesting … good show!
@hlowrylong years later, their father has been accused of sexual assault from someone in the music industry. Most mothers know what their husband's are doing , and she turned a blind eye. Sick
@@hlowrylongI agree. I still don’t believe them. It blows my mind that murder isn’t an automatic death penalty.
Another great show! I didn't realize the son had been abused. That sheds a completely different light on everything. Joel, you truly do have the best guests!
Both son's were abused. However though he stopped abusing lyle he continued abusing Erik until right up until that nightvx
@@samelsmore3987proof?? facts?
They haven’t proved sexual abuse. This is a new thing occurring in society. They also want Scott Peterson out! Mr Menendez isn’t here to defend himself! Another thing, why did they kill their mother?
@@samelsmore3987i wonder why he stopped abusing lyle
@missthunderstormable I'm not sure. I think he almost used it as a way of punishing Erik though x
Once again we had experts on trauma and sexual abuse who actually evaluated the brothers to explain the complexities behind abuse, incest and trauma, only to have a bunch of ignorant people claiming victims can “just leave” and complaining that rich kids spent money
Unbelievable
U said it right Leticia… ignorant ppl cus they don’t put themselves in someone else’s shoes… let them go thru the same and see how they’ll sing another song
Yes!
The judge discredited Dr.Ann
like he knew better to
No accounting for some people
Looking back on the media coverage and response to this case it is a stain on our society. Can you imagine what someone who was a victim of sexual abuse at the hands of their parent watching this coverage might’ve thought as they watched these two young men being villainized for their claims of sexual abuse simply because they came from a wealthy family?? Wonder how much longer they might’ve waited to come forward as a result of hearing how the Menendez brothers were treated by our society. Such a shame.
I am certain that was the goal....statistically there must have been some perpetrators influencing the case. I can't explain otherwise why there was so much gaslighting involved to create the false and strong perception about the brothers characters and the case.
1:13:26 👏👏👏 go Ms Murphy. No child should live a childhood filled with TERROR. 🎉 AND Dr Burgess with just pure genius ❤ groundbreaking show, thank you 😊
I think the brothers could be an incredible asset and life coach to work with sexual abuse victims... rather than sitting in jail.
👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 HELL YES to the lawyer chick! Keep spreading the message, bravo, well done.
Mark needs to take her up on the offer. These brothers have been in prison way too long.
Excellent conversation.
Great intervention of all of you!
No doubt they BOTH need to be released!!! There are people who were convicted of 1st degree murder that were sentenced to less time and were granted parole
Dershowitz should not discuss abuse after the allegations regarding Epstein and himself
Drs. Burgess and Brucato are the undisputed experts on this topic.
Love Dr. Brucato as well!❤
Maltreatment of children and young people is rampant in our society! Can we fix this horrendous problem?
Great Guests! ❤
My mother knew and then blamed us when the ‘secret’ was finally out. I was 11, my sister was 10, and our youngest sister was 5 when the abuse started. When my 10 year old sister turned 15, she had one period, and then she was pregnant.
I'm so sorry. You had a double trauma
I'm so sorry you and your sisters had to endure this! I'll NEVER understand how a mother can sit by and either ignore or accept such abuse. In some ways I feel that a mother/parent who does this is worse than the abuser. As a mother, it is our job to protect our children!
When I discovered my (now ex) husband molesting my daughter, I made him leave IMMEDIATELY. In fact, it took every ounce of restraint that I could muster not to murder the bastard. Thankfully I had a moment of clarity and realized that if I were to attack him that my children would have a dead father and I (their mother) would be in prison for murdering him.
I got my daughter into counseling, reported my ex to the authorities and divorced him. That was 20 years ago and I don't regret it one bit.
I had my daughter in individual and group therapy. During the group therapy we mothers participated. It literally blew my mind at the amount of women who were still with their daughter's abusers!
@@deniece0821 Thank you for sharing your healthy reaction to your daughters’ abuse! I believe we heal by talking about it and you got her talking immediately. How beautiful a mother you are! In the sexual trauma unit in a psychiatric hospital they gave this example. I you see an accident on the way to workplace you share that with your coworkers. Far from being salacious, your talking is healing you from witnessing someone else’s trauma. You talk about it until you don’t need to anymore.
Brilliant video in soo many levels! As a DV survivor of 3 years of abuse - I feel heard.
One thing I would like to say is neither one of the Menendez brothers ever claimed to be completely innocent, especially for the duration of their actual trials, and neither one of them expected or believed they deserved to be fully acquitted.
They were both hoping for either manslaughter or 2nd degree convictions. They were 💯 horrifically abused in every way imaginable and were battered people. Had they been the Menendez sisters instead of brothers, I 💯 believe there would have been a different outcome. Just look at the cases of Francine Hughes and Gypsy Rose Blanchard. In the first trial, prosecutor Pam Bozanitch absurdly claimed that men could not be SA-ed because they lacked the anatomical equipment to be SA-ed. The other prosecutor Lester Kuriyama attempted to delegitimize Erik’s ongoing 12 years of SA by claiming he was secretly gay and inwardly homophobic and didn’t want to admit he liked it, despite the fact that throughout his life he has only had romantic relationships with women as significant others. Would that homophobia and/or blatant disregard for the experiences of male survivors of SA fly as a prosecution technique in a courtroom if the case were to be tried today? Absolutely NOT.
I as well as a lot of SA survivors have claimed that their testimonies were too specific to be made up in any way and from just from my own experience I could relate to how they survived all the SA by all the little things they said. Erik described his peculiar fixation for eating lemons all the time in order to survive his ongoing SA. I did the EXACT SAME THING to survive my SA. Lyle hoarded stuffed animals to such an extent he gave them characters, personalities, and stories whenever he got a chance to play by himself in his home up until age 17. I did almost the exact same thing too to survive my SA, even though I will admit I wasn’t as old as Lyle when I finally stopped playing with the stuffed animals. If you really look at the little pieces and actually discuss this case with the abuse survivors community as well as experts who specialize in treating and legally advocating for survivors of SA, you will see that the ONLY thing that makes sense within the context of the brothers’ trial is that their abuse was 💯 real.
Before you all throw me to the wolves let me be clear here: I am NOT advocating for people taking the law into their own hands and committing homicides based on vigilante justice. I also do 💯 believe they could have and should have chosen another option to escape their abuse other than killing their abusers by their own hands. At the same time, if someone feels hypervigilant, battered, terrorized, and trapped in a house of all kinds of abusive horrors with what they believe they had absolutely no escape from, then their ability to see every one of their options would clearly be diminished. So do I believe they should not have killed? Yes. Do I also believe that their killings though not justified were entirely understandable? ALSO YES.
As journalist Robert Rand who has been reporting on their case for decades now has consistently stated, NOTHING gives you a free pass to kill mom and dad and they did absolutely deserve to be held accountable for their crime and spend some time in prison. However, once you take a look at the full picture of the case, I do believe the evidence for it shows that it was either a manslaughter under Imperfect Self Defense or a 2nd degree murder at BEST or WORST, depending on how you choose to look at it in regards to either a prosecution or a defense point of view, and not a 1st degree murder deserving of the possibility of them either facing the death penalty or life in prison without the possibility of parole.
And based on ALL OF THAT WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY STATED in consideration with the time they’ve each already served while incarcerated being 30+ years, the fact that all things considered they’ve been relatively model inmates, and the fact that in all their recent interviews it’s clear they have genuine remorse for what they did and recognize they should not have done it and still want to help other survivors, I say there’s only one right thing to do that would be serving them justice, right now in 2023: #FreeTheMenendezBrothers
You are living your life through them as if they're the poster children for abuse, which they are not. Horrifically abused in every way imaginable? But all of Lyle and Erik's evidence is "he said, she said." Their case doesn't do service for the many victims of actual horrific abuse.
@@tflg3257 As a survivor of abuse, myself, the abuser does not do the vile things when witnesses are around. Abuse is hard to prove, but leaves emotional scars.
@CatAclysm286 excellent post.
@tflg3257 there’s way more evidence than “he said, he said.” The most important of which is Roy Rosello, a member of the band Jose managed, came out and said he was also raped by Jose. But there is more if you want to hear.
Great show and great guests ❤love from Frankfurt/🇩🇪
Brilliant Guests!!!
Dr Burgess!!!! 🫶🏼🤩🫶🏼🤩🫶🏼🤩
A star! A legend for sure! A woman way ahead of her time, what a beautiful contributor to humanity!
Having been watching the trial the last few days, I want to point out that the mother sexually abused Lyle, aside from her other faults. Too many people consider her a bystander.
Thank you for this very informative discussion. 👏
Please please let them free!!! Their parents were f…… horrible! I cannot believe they were found guilty to spend that kind of time in jail all these years! I’ve never been molested or raped in my life but for some reason every time I hear the words, I absolutely am mortified to try to imagine how anyone could feel being treated like that. It is so disgusting to me and leaves me in such fear and I’m 71.!! These boys were absolutely tortured and they should’ve been set free from the very beginning!! I pray they get a few years of normal life, both of them!!!! 💖💝💕💓😘
They werent boys they were LEGAL MEN at the time of the killing. They went back to the car and reloaded the gun to bang bang more. They were cut out of the will. People of abuse dont kill. They were at an age they could have left..
They both were sexually,emotionally,and physically abused by both the mother and father. There is a lot to unpack in this case.
If I'm not mistaken there was some pretty severe physical abuse, also. Im pretty sure there were family members and tennis trainers who witnessed José physically hit and choke Lyle and Erik.
The Mom did NOT abuse them.
NO ONE ever talks about José was also concerned because his sons helped commit several burglaries in the Los Angeles area, taking about $100,000 in jewelry and cash the previous year. José reportedly made a deal with the district attorney to get Erik - who was still a minor - a slap on the wrist in exchange for pleading guilty, while both brothers were required to enter counseling.
Homicide detectives wondered if money could have been the motive after learning Lyle and Erik stood to inherit $650,000 in the event of their father’s death, as well as the multi-million-dollar mansion. Suspicions were raised when Lyle and Erik used the life insurance money to make head-turning purchases, including a Porsche Carrera, Rolex watches, and a $60,000-per-year tennis coach for Lyle’s continued lessons. Lyle also purchased his own chicken wing restaurant back in New Jersey.
Leads ran dry, until months later, in March 1990, when a woman named Judalon Smyth went to detectives. Smyth claimed her former boyfriend, a psychologist named Dr. Jerome Oziel - who’d professionally seen the brothers over the previous burglary charges - disclosed that Lyle and Erik made in-session confessions to killing their parents.
@@kelliintexas3575Yes she did.
@@kelliintexas3575 You are literally spamming the same uninformed rant on every comment you get the chance or feel the need to.
Stop it, get some help 👨🏾🦲.
Such eloquent passionate guests ! Love it
You need to have Dr. Burgess on alone so we can hear her. She has so much knowledge and insight to share, especally concerning this case
Let's do not forget that Menudo guy back then was still in the industry and of course trying to help his family out financially he kind of had to keep quiet about the abuse he endured to the point of anal injury and bleeding profusely
horrific 😮😢
These two women are by far the most level headed, brilliant minds ever!!! LOVE THEM BOTH SOOOOOO MUCH! 💖💝💕💓💞😘🥰
Wow wow wow that is disgusting that a person who has gone through sexual assault can’t be on a jury, but a person who has assaulted can be on a jury Must be a lot of Judges that have been sexual assaulted,as has been in the history of abused women.
The mother did not want to give up her lifestyle and her status in the community. Clearly she did not care about her boys only herself! She was stone cold.!!!
She was abused mentally and emotionally
@@MacSwanShe abused them herself
Kitty was a victim of Jose (and she didn't deserve _that_ ), but she was also a perpetrator and enabler. If she had taken Lyle and Erik the first time she witnessed the abuse and just left Jose, none of this would ever have happened !
I am a trauma survivor and abuse of any kind is an ugly thing and stays with the victims for a lifetime. However I cannot justify Erik and Lyle murdering there parents but they were extremely terrible parents with no natural affection. I don't care how much money Jose shelled out for his sons or for his wife. Also it doesn't take away from her molestation of her sons or abuse of her sons but Kitty was a victim of Jose's as well. When Lyle was 10 he walked in on Jose raping Kitty. There upbringing and family dynamic was extremely traumatic and dysfunctional. When Lyle came to visit for Erik's graduation he stayed in the guest house not in the family home although they had 7-8 bedrooms. That tells you everything you need to know. Anyways I hope Erik and Lyle learned that the only people who really stuck by them when they went to prison was there family and Leslie Abrahamson. So they would be idiots to cheat on there wives who have stuck by them loyally when they were sentenced to life in prison (not having anything to offer a wife except there personality)and made a ton of sacrifices to stand by them. People definitely judged those women and treated them bad for making the decision to marry Lyle and Erik. But I hope Lyle and Erik are faithful and appreciate what they have. Its nice Erik married Tammie and she alowed him to be the step father of her daughter. Because he wasn't getting to be a father any other way. Thats a very special thing. There wives also saw the positive in them while the world thought they were heartless serial killers. Im glad Erik and Lyle are rehabilitating prisoners and I cannot wait to have them slowly and quietly intergrate into society. -Lots of love from a trauma survivor
Dr. Burgess and Wendy Murphy..both excellent as usual.
He did hire prostitutes. Cheri Woods, a Madame in Hollywood/Beverly Hills came forward. Also, Jose Menendez was a sadomasochist and a sex addict. It didn't matter to him if the person was male or female, young or his age. Sadomasochism is in the DSM, paraphilia as well, but sexual addiction is described in other ways. He was a sexual deviant. Sick, sick man with a host of other issues.
I’ve been in STS Nation long enough to know Geragos has already been on the show ❤ one of my favorite old school interviews was with Georgia Cappelman ❤❤❤❤ #STSNATION
If you have never been SA by a family member your negative opinion means ZERO.
Absolutely
They weren't SA, it's all lies.
Nailed it!!!
@@christinefougere Yes, because they didn’t exhibit all of the symptoms that the past 30 years of research has shown that they would exhibit! (Sarcasm) I really hope you don’t have children.
You don't have to have experienced sexual assault by a family member to have an opinion.
Those kids have suffered enough through their whole lives.
Wendy is A M A Z I N G !!!! I LOVE AND ADMIRE HER PASSION! She has raised excellent points about the justice system in how really it is the “INJUSTICE SYSTEM.” I learned so much from her about how court cases often do not result as they often should because the jurors who can understand a victim are immediately dismissed without argument! Instead, the jurors who can think like the perpetrator are left to sit on the jury and set these monsters free!! This gives whole new meaning to, “The judicial system is BROKEN.” You bet it is!!
How do we change that for victims all across the country? Why has it not been changed? We have very intellectual scholars today who can be learned from! WHY IS EVERYTHING TO THE BENEFIT OF THE PERPETRATOR!!?? Is there anyone left in positions of power who WANT TO DO RIGHT BY PEOPLE!!??
Flight or Fight response kicks in naturally!!
I feel as if abuse has to be mentioned regarding the mother of the guys as well…at least verbal abuse and her knowing what was happening but ignoring it…no reporting was done.🤷♀️
Now this is a team I'd want on my side!
New subscriber!! This is my 2nd show...I'm still drying my eyes from the first with Kerri Rawson , Ann and some lovely Dr. man.😢
This case here ..the bros have been close to my heart since i was a teenager. I'm sending boatloads of energy towards their freedom💚💚💚.
The two trials were a crock and these 2 boys never got any support for the horrific abuse they suffered at the parents hands.
Ridiculous.
Unacceptable!
The rapes should have been dealt with before the murders.
Free Eric and Lyle.
And then give them both, a big appology for no one coming to their rescue as children...then locking them in cages for almost thirty years!
Enough!!
Yes but they won’t. The system will never admit they railroaded a case or even put completely innocent ppl in prison!
An important topic and thank you for adding some meaning to it. Any society that wants to be healthy has to give priority to meaning against pleasure and power.
When it comes to meaning, "why" is the most important question, for example, why psychopaths are always some kind of addicts and what does addiction do for them? Why was abuse present behind closed doors earlier and nowadays is usually more transparent? Why are people allowed to kill in self-defense when a person can be terrorized by a mosquito, so is terror the cause of murder, or is the lack of self-regulation? When we have a clear why, we can measure how realistic it is to apply the "why" under the circumstances. Under these circumstances, the Menendez brothers deserve a second chance because if we kill meaning, we kill health, only paranoia and ignorance are left. What I mean, do you know who asks the most whys? Children do and intuitive people do. If the previous trial was protecting the law, which is power, and protecting victims, which is safety (the pleasure of comfort), the new trial should also protect meaning. And meaning is not nurtured only in court, but in a family, in education, in society, etc. 1:15:15
Take care.
Dr. Burgess is utterly on point!
The alleged 'sexual abuse' was relevant to the sentencing phase. That is why they didnt get death penalty.
And that was the only time the jury in the second trial was able to see and hear evidence of it
Amazing guests. No doubt.
It disturbs me and makes me a bit angry that the Menuto band member who FINALLY opened his mouth, waited this long and now, whether they are released or not, they have been institutionalized, and will never have a normal life as we know it. I pray for those boys that they find as close to a normal life that they can for the rest of their lives.
Really? Put yourself in Roy’s shoes where you are a teenager in a popular music band in the 80’s, getting SA by the manager on an ongoing basis and in exchange for a record deal you are the sacrifice by getting drugged and SA by the music executive. That doesn’t sound like something easy to come out. Add culture and shame added on top of being a male. Unfortunately it happened this way and Roy had the courage to finally expose Edgardo Diaz and Jose Menendez. This continues today and everyone suffers at the cost of young innocent children/teens.
I’m sorry but if we are to understand victims handle abuse differently, as with what happened with the brothers, we also have to accept that Roy processed his abuse and the trauma from that differently.
Dr. Ann Burgess is the real deal! I love her 💞
Victims, revictimized, by our corrupt ass system😡 our “justice” system never fails to disappoint.
As a survivor, imo Wendy Murphy is exactly on point as to how the abused felt back when these boys were in the news. Especially when living in a wealthy household.
Deben estar libres.
Excellent, EXCELLENT breakdown! Thank you ladies for the perspective! FREE THE MENENDEZ BROTHERS!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I can’t comprehend how come the judge could be so heartless to have disallowed sexual abuse as defense on their second trial after having seen many witnesses testimonies and evidences that confirmed the sexual abuse claim by the brothers, he should be held accountable!!! How flawed the justice system was, poor guys!! They must be freed, the court has trialed them so unfairly
Because they kept losing high profile cases and I’m pretty sure it also had to do with money. I don’t know if not winning cases results in funding, but it’s a fkd up system. It seems like the brothers were abused also by the justice system when the SA wasn’t allowed on the 2nd trial .
You don't go to a murder trial to argue an "excuse" for executing people. It was a brutal murder. All the SA did was prevent them from getting death row
Ann Burgess...youre an absolut shining star ❤
I cannot believe they were victimized a second time when Uncle did not produce the letter for their trial. What kind of family is this? Horrid and tragic
My family sweetie same thing
I have restraining orders and in intensive therapy honestly
@@AlabamaT Sorry to hear. Good luck and positive thoughts for you.
I think the brothers should be freed. I believe the brothers, and I think their parents were mentally ill monsters. I think they threatened to tell people what Jose was doing to them, and I think Jose threatened to kill them. It's easy to say that the brothers should have just moved away, but i think they were afraid of being found if they left and what Jose would do to them. I think the brothers were tortured literally, emotionally, mentally, physically. I believe the murders were manslaughter, and I believe that they should have been released after 10 or 15 years. They have suffered enough already.
Wendy totally took over … irritating
She sounds like a nutcase. Saying even if raped everyday nothing justifys self defense. Shes a total nutjob shes.a abuser prolly
Agreed.
The abuse should have been a mitigating factor in their sentence. Therefore they've done enough time by now. Or round it off to 35-40 years.
Yikes! This is the one subject that gets the most passionate response from both sides in chat! I’ll refrain from giving my opinion since I know it won’t change anything…
Wise…
But u still said something… and everybody is entitled to say what they feel about whatever subject… why?… cus of things like this case… the “mom” and “dad” abusing them and acting like they were a happy fam… like many other families out there… covering the abuse… something we should let out there for ppl not to act surprise when something violent happens… but then again justice is blind and the parents acted just as justice
My father molested me and I am a Woman now.. I can't imagine how hard it would be for a man in that time Woman now.. I can't imagine how hard it would be for a man in that time Is to be able to be understand and admit to that. What a lot of people don't realize is the amount of shame that comes with it. I still can't fully tell my husband what happened to me by my own fother, I literally just hint around and I'm 50 years old. They Need to let them out a prison immediately
So did you end up murdering your father???
@@joan7151 no. I actually cared for him through his brain cancer until he passed. Most people don't resort to murder. I can tell you though that I am 50 and still carry shame even though I know I did nothing wrong. We are all different and handle things differently. I am sure it's more difficult for men.
I know how you feel. I was abused by my Grandfather, and when I told my Aunt, she said he did it because I was adopted. That made me feel even worse.
@@sharongannon-rp1cp I am so sorry
You need to do a show with Dr.Burgess alone as the other woman never seems to shut up and Dr.Burgess is who we tuned in for.
In live chat (which I missed, darn it) there are hundreds of comments by people who have no clue how and why the abused feel as we do. Of course I understand but there remains a huge disconnect. I’m all for the brothers to be released now. 🌱
I wish we could hear more from Ann, next time. Great stuff tonight, Joel ❤
So did you murder your abuser(s)???
Joan, not all abused children have to also fear for their life like Erik and Lyle had to.
It was a quite unique case in that way. However many children get killed by their abusive parents.
Luckily the Menendez brothers could safe their lives from their disgusting parents.
If you feel that raping a child is ok and that the Menendez brothers should still be in jail than go and watch the entire trial.
How many of these men who won’t recognize the trauma, (examples: Judge, Dershowitz) are themselves perpetrators?
Really illuminating podcast. I’ve been looking for info after I started the Netflix monsters. The young actor that plays lyle was my reason to watch having seen his one and only other acting in general hospital as Spenser. I’m a fan. But unfortunately Nicolas Chavez is playing this role in many ways that most likely did not happen as to the producers and it’s made me question. Thank you for this podcast.
In my country, murder is max 30 years. Possible psychiatric sentence on top of it, which can mean life. I remember the Menendez case ( I was 19) and indeed the sexual-abuse-or-not topic. I can now see it is very true. They were terrorized, but also tortured, especially Erik, IMO. Great to hear Ann's experiences and thoughts working with the case back then.
Lyle was terrorized in different ways. Less sexually, but all those talks he had to have with his father, sometimes for hours listening to the strategies and politics are a form of mental abuse.
Why didn’t they move out of the house if they were so scared? Both chose to live at home. Dad tried to set up the older one in business out of state. But, as a spoiled failure he came home. The other one was 19!
It must have just been awful when Dad supported him to travel all over the world for tennis !!! HE came home to live also.
@@barbara2002 Look up Learned Helpless. Erik was 18 at the time and had just graduated from high school. He was set to move into a dorm in September and Lyle was going back to Princeton (his parents had bought a condo for him there). You really should research this case.
Amen to Wendy. Loved the rant. I am the mother of a boy who was sexually assaulted by his father. His first childhood memory is of his father assaulting him.
Love you Dr. Burgess!!🥰