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Now that Aquaman 2 is out and the DCEU is officially dead, I’d love for you to have Kalinowski and Roxy on to do a DCEU post-mortem. It’d be a mini DC Movie news reunion!
Coy’s point at 39:35 is absolutely spot on about Gen Z audiences and Marvel having to age up their material - they need to keep their longtime fans loyal and on side and the only way they can do that is by keeping their interest and producing more mature material that is of a good quality (hopefully Echo, Deadpool 3, Daredevil BA, Blade will be examples of this).
@@Fan-Nimater101 it has been for a long time…but they are now struggling to keep all the different segments of the audience interested as audiences grow older and Gen Z audiences start becoming more prominent, and they must be realising quickly that they are not striking a chord with Gen Z..
Why does Marvel think that people only respond to characters in their specific demographic? Young people and women were already onboard for the OG characters in the golden era. The more you try to microtarget specific parts of the audience, the more you fail more often than not. Their movies used to appeal to everyone and they made bank.
I mean we kinda do. The problem is they keep throwing these characters we love in shitty movies and focusing more on there already established characters. I would rather have A kick ass Ms. Marvel movie then to have her shoehorn into A lame Marvels movie.
I feel like Kristian has gone through a journey of rediscovery with film in a way that I’m excited for this upcoming year. I feel like there are higher standards, and when Kristian gets excited for a movie now, I put it up at the top of my list
you can't say one of the reasons that people didn't see the Marvels is because they felt lost because they never watched the TV shows and then say they need to set up the young Avengers in a TV show.
I admire Winston being wrong and just planting his flag on that hill despite Kristian and Coy pelting him with all those facts. Not enough people cared about The Marvels to turn out and support it and it's doubtful anyone will turn out for Young Avengers with those three leads.
Yeah I don't think it's unbearable like Kristian & Coy described it's much like a lot of the rest of the DCEU, it's ok. Probably a 5.5/6 out of 10. Not gonna win any Oscars but an entertaining time at the movies
I appreciate Winston's enthusiasm for Young Avengers because it's not the first time he seems excited to that idea on previous episodes.....but literary nobody would go watch that movie, for many of the reasons Kristian mentioned
Honestly the Young Avengers skepticism feels rooted in the word YOUNG, Ive seen so many people dismiss the idea without knowing anything about the team or their stories. Even in comics Ive always felt that YOUNG moniker was a barrier to entry for some. The entire Young Avengers arc also involves the actual Avengers as well so Ive never been trepidatious about the concept as a film.
@@babytoshiro7014 Yeah, they just haven’t done a good job setting it up other than having random characters appear. Kamala can’t lead them. I understand completely if people don’t want something like the Champions where that original run by Waid stunk.
Agreed, it's much like how people used to hate in Tom Holland calling him Iron Man Jr. They should go with The Champions for the name instead especially since it seems Kamala is bringing the team together like in the comics
@@babytoshiro7014 Yes, many people didn’t read it and that accounts for most people not reading comics in general. The Young Avengers literally involve the Avengers and one of the characters as a reveal being a young Kang who went back in time where he doesn’t want to become the conqueror makes perfect sense for a movie if it was all planned. Allan Heinberg didn’t give up on it and his original run of 12 issues was great. His sequel with the Children’s Crusade was very good and then the Guillen and McKelvie was great too. It was just meant to be a 12 issue limited series originally where the Children’s Crusade was never part of the plan. It was the first comic Heinberg wrote and he wasn’t getting an ongoing where he said after the 12 issues came out what the plan was.
For the number of characters in a Young Avengers project they need a series. Nobody cares about those characters enough to carry a film and nobody knows enough about them to develop them all and make us care in 2 hours. Dumb idea.
Regarding the "young avengers". People have to care about the characters... Other than very small parts of the internet and fandom, the masses (who are needed to make a large budgeted movie a success) just don't care about these characters. Nothing to do with "wokeness" or "politics". Marvel is in danger as a brand (just like star wars) because its main fans are getting older and younger generations aren't into it like older fans were at the same age (in raw numbers). Its tricky... Do you alienate your reliable fanbase to chase a younger one... Who doesn't have the same brand loyalty as the "old" fans? And increasingly more and more I.P is doing this to mixed results at the very best.
I enjoy all of the Disney+ series but what they should have done is introduce each of the "Young Avengers" alongside the OG characters in their own movies (like how they introduced Black Panther and Spider-Man in Civil War) and then fleshed them out in Disney+ series. Like you said not every casual consumer is watching Disney+ or cares about it.
I feel like I watched a different movie than you guys (respecting your opinion). I really enjoyed Aquaman 2. I also really liked the first film as well. The dialogue or screenplay didn't bother me. The story was pretty good. Some action sequences were amazing. The visuals were great by and large. You guys used the word "boring" to describe Aquaman 2. I would describe it as a fun, high fantasy, and high adventure movie. Nothing boring about it. Anyway, thats my take. Thanks for the show fellas!
Kristian is right on about earning it for these comic movies. A great example is the first Deadpool. Great set piece in the beginning in the movie followed by STORY and an ending battle that feels earned
Universe six sixteen might be the most old man thing Kristian has ever said. Thanks for all the shows this year. Been a real good mix and always positive and fun. Have a good Christmas everyone.
My dad and I just saw Aquaman 2 and both of us really enjoyed it. Its like a solid 7 out of 10. Its not perfect and its not gonna win any awards but its very enjoyable. I think you guys are being too hard on it
Just make comic movies for older audience. Kids show up to those, adults don’t show up to kid/teen aimed movies. Even as a show I still see young avengers failing to bring the viewership they want. The shows aside from Loki just don’t provide a good enough story to justify 6 episodes and they want to make them longer.
The other point no one mentioned is that currently it’s just an all girls team of 4. Even if they add 1 guy, there is no way in hell I’m watching that movie. They are gearing to an audience that doesn’t watch it. All of us actual paying audience are getting ignored. It’s a dumb idea that will flop even if they are introduced over time. Disney has an overall problem of forgetting who their actual audience is. They did it with animation, ignoring parents. With Star Wars, killing legacy characters & bad scripts and now with marvel. Disney have no idea how to actually give their buying customers what they want anymore. This upcoming Ff movie will be the decision on whether it’s dead to me for good or not
One of the complaints about The Marvels is that no one knew 2 of the characters because not everyone watches/has Disney+, so doing a Young Avengers show before a movie is the same not great idea.
A Young Avengers movie is a horrible idea and they have to know it when they look at the numbers. Bunch of D list characters who mostly had piss poor introductions and the majority of them on D+ at that. Not to mention the concept is first brought up in the biggest MCU bomb of all time. How tf can they think that would work? The MCU now reminds me of the 2015 All New All Different era in the comics when they tried to force feed readers things they didn't want and failed. Why are they trying to emulate that disaster?
Idk, if I agree with Winston about the Marvels and women, there are 7 women in my immediate personal life that I interact with on a daily basis. Out of those 7, only two are super fans of Marvel and they didn't go see the Marvels because they just didn't feel like it was worth a trip to the theatre because they did not expect it to be good based off of what they had read online about it and in discussing it with friends. Out of the other 5 women, 3 are moms and 2 are grandmas and they rarely get to the theatre at all and they don't really watch things like Marvel or Star Wars.
The demographic that turned out most for The Marvels was actually white men and women didn’t support the movie as much since they didn’t care. So Marvel knows who actually shows up and Coy isn’t wrong about making sure you don’t leave your original audience which obviously wasn’t just white men behind.
The only reason I feel that the Young Avengers should never be a thing that happens in the MCU as it today (maybe in cinematic "universe" that was solely centered on the team itself), is because be the time the first film came out (and 100% its sequel): the "youth" won't be the youth anymore. It should just be New Avengers and go from there.
The Young Avengers are teenagers, but they’re closer to 18 and really the only young one is Iman Vellani as Kamala. Everyone else cast so far is older than her.
I watched the movie in the theater and I disagree so much with Kristian and everyone else saying it's a bad movie. It's a good fun movie that needs to be seen in theater. Could have been better? Yes, but due to drama behind the scenes and merger I was surprised it came out decent.
And in some ways - Marvel might have been better off keeping all their younger / lighter / new generation content only on Disney+ - and keep developing the older / more serious / saga-focused material in theaters or as Film events on D+. Imagine a 2 part film of Loki S2 material released a year apart, or maybe even six months apart.
I understand the controversy surrounding such a thing and I understand that everyone behind the scenes was grieving but I will die on this hill saying that Yahya Abdul Mateen should have taken on the character of T’Challa after Chadwick Boseman died. That’s a role that is worthy of his talents as an actor. He’s been wasted in these Aquaman films as Black Manta. Everyone harped on the idea that recasting would be unfair to a new actor, which I think is silly because any lead role on that scale is a difficult undertaking but between Watchmen and other performances Mateen himself is a super star talent worthy of a role like Black Panther. Hearing he’s wasted even more is heartbreaking.
Black Manta as a character doesn’t even really have agency in The Lost Kingdom. I saw significantly more people say that T’Challa should have been recast and I didn’t see anyone say it would be unfair to a new actor. If he could do a convincing accent like Boseman, he was talented enough to take over.
I am not interested in a Young Avengers movie or Disney+ series. Marvel studios needs to pause and focus on the main characters people want to see before it’s too late. Maybe we are already there?
One of the most famous kang stories was a young avengers run if they retool kangs dynasty to be a young avengers movie they could do that storyline and recast majors as younger.
I have be honest, I find it very hard to believe that we will specifically get a Young Avengers film when we still don't even have Avengers 5 and 6 ready to go. If it were to happen it would be after those films and ALSO my best guess is that the Young Avengers are going to be featured in the next Avengers film anyway even if not called "Young Avengers". I highly doubt a solo Avengers film for them is going to get made.
They’ve been setting it up horribly for years. How did you not see it? Lol just kidding. They have been setting it up but it’s been terrible and hopefully they don’t do it
@@bobbyfischer9927 I don't personally think it's much to do with setting it up as they are just establishing new characters that COULD be an ensemble for a future Avengers film
Its more likely we get an unofficial “Young Avengers formation” in Films like Thunderbolts and Secret wars, rather than Have it just pop up first as an IP in 2027/2028. We’ll see the young avengers bc they are integral to secret wars, before they get their own time on screen.
The one problem I see with waiting years for young avengers is Hailee Steinfeld will be like 31-32 when it’s out. At that point the young cast they have now won’t be so young anymore. But if they can get Miles from Sony to be in it, the box office/hype for the show would significantly increase.
8:45 Tell that to Israel Winston. 20,000 dead. 8,000 of them children. I liked Hawkeye. It's actually one of my favorites of the MCU shows. Let's not suddenly retroactively re-write the narrative just because recent entries have been mediocre. 29:51 I don't think there should be a Young Avengers. I think Kate Bishop and Ms Marvel (don't really care about anyone else) should be integrated into the main Avengers team alongside the older characters. It'll give audiences an opportunity to endear themselves to them since you already have a greater chance of people watching an Avengers movie than some kids that are just derivative of already established characters 46:40 I disagree that it's too late for them to change course on the multiverse. All they would need to do is drop the multiverse as a saga and just relegate it to a storyline within a Doctor Strange movie. The next Doctor Strange could be a Civil War type event with several heroes teaming up to fix the incursions and fixing the MCU main 616 storyline.. They then can retool the main Saga storyline with other characters - The Avengers, FF, Spider-Man facing an MCU focused villian like Galactus, Doom etc. They need to drop the multiverse. It's just nostalgia bait nonsense that has been nothing more than an excuse to drop in has-been characters/actors from old Marvel movies. This has broken the MCU's narrative and forward momentum. I don't care about the multiverse. Never have and now that they potentially won't be recasting Kang, it's time to move away from it for the sake of the MCU's survival. Thanos and the Infinity Stones worked because we had a easy to follow storyline. The multiverse is a mess.
Nando movies made a brilliant pitch for a young avengers film which if marvel does anything like it I think would be good. Just need good storytelling, writing, and dialogue between these characters. If done well people will like it.
I disagree. It's not safe to say that at all. With Marvel Studios returning back to their roots of making films, I think Thunderbolts will be the Guardians of the Galaxy of 2025.
Young Avengers would be bad only if it presupposes everyone having seen the Disney Plus offerings, which they have not. I am up for it, but I have seen everything so I am not the one they need to convince.
I somewhat agree. I reckon that them being wanted or not matters much less if what's offered is ultimately high quality… but if past is prologue confidence in the quality isn't that strong. So yeah, if it's good, great. It makes a bad situation worse if not, though.
I really don't care which character they bring from Sony to MCU. This whole sharing custody between MCU & Sony is not working anymore. It's very tedious at this point.
I don’t mind Young Avengers but it has to be 4-5 years from now. Marvel has all these characters that frankly I like but they’re just there and I would like to see what their status is. What are they doing? How they contributing to greater MCU. They need to do something with those characters.
No. Entertainment takes many forms, it could be heartbreak or hand grenades, and could also either be tried and tested or new and unseen. Therefore it being enjoyable in the moment and/or of objective merit upon reflection are quite different assessments.
Marvel has missed multiple opportunities to 'reset' after the conclusion of End Game and it's too bad. Even with the end of No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness along with Loki season 2, I was so ready to have a completely new 'reality' start. Instead, we're mainly getting movies for no one and a complete lack of 'epic storytelling'.
Young avengers might work if it has like 125 million dollar budget. I doubt any of those actors demand huge money except hailee steinfield. The timing is not good if marvel was on a roll they could get away with it. Marvel needs to focus fixing Thor and hulk. Sequels for Spiderman and strange. Give us new characters like ghost rider and nova
They have to start Setting up Doom, but unfortunately I dont believe he has a long enough runway Post F4 to establish how big of a threat he is when he becomes God Doom. You have to physically see/feel the on screen deaths that he has to cause.
I think the multiverse problem was accentuated by Sony using it as a get out of jail free card for terrible executive decisions. Say what you will about the way the MCU has used the multiverse as a concept I think Sony using it as a catch all to just make anything happen is souring any possibility of appreciating the concept fully?
This is so subtle but I been cracking up for 20 minutes when ur talking about Aquaman not being released last year perhaps bc of Avatar and Winston goes “2 water movies 😂
Young Avengers could be the new version of Guardians. Nobody knew who the fuck Star Lord was or anything and that movie kicked ass. People want good movies with good characters. You don't need audiences to know the IP in order to see it. Make a Deadpool budgeted Young Avengers and you will make your money back in the first week worldwide.
I thought introducing the multiverse to the MCU during Endgame was a bad idea. It creates no consequences and quick resolutions to any plot holes. It was a slippery slope and the MCU has fallen.
Ms Marvel needs to be relegated to a side character like Kitty Pride. If shes a main attraction in any upcoming movie then its going to fail imo. People dont care about her character.
Sorry to disagree fellas, but rather if you think the movie is good or not, I was never bored, and thought the film was actually good and fun and better then the first movie. Just my opinion, always glad to listen to y'all opinion.
As I before, I suspect Aquaman 2 was a better film BEFORE the reshoots and extensive cuts. And i’m guessing the reshoots and cuts were a result of this universe being scrapped.
I love that Kristian was just over it all at the end there! LOL (I wrote it because I know you really love it when people use LOL). Messing with you Kristian. We all feel that way sometimes, like we are over it. I'm over comic book movies for the time being, at least, I'm not going to the theatre anymore to see them. I catch them when get to streaming when I have some down time.
I have no interest in Young Avengers BUT I realise that it’s not being made for people of my age. If I were a kid i’d probably be very excited about it. And I think we need to remember this before we rage out about films like that.
The Young Avengers in the comics were not marketed for children and started after Avengers Disassembled. One of the core characters is Iron Lad who went back in time and is revealed to be a young Kang who doesn’t want to be the conqueror of the future. It’s a story that is literally for adults and the sequel involves Billy and Teddy trying to find Scarlet Witch.
jesus thank you, a professional non fan boy unbiased other than the basic level of love necesssary to create a comic/comic movie talk show, talk show. this is dope and I will be honest I have skipped over these thumbnails for a good while and this is my first time viewing. i think its hilarious that you are all sayin what I have been feeling for quite sum time about many comic movies. to me literally the spiderverse movies are the only thing killing the entertainment industry in the best ways possible. i have always said these things should be kept to an animated world and simply modernized personality and technology wise. i do feel most of the pieces are to highly scrutinized by picky fans. which is why i always simplify all of it by this categorization, is it simply entertaining. is it making me feel the script the way the comics do? only spiderverse scores are doing that. i smile i laugh i feel the scenes. these early spiderverse movies are revving things up so i dont put them to the flame right away. i give them ample time to work up to the crescendo that is at the heart of any and all series'. grown ups that are jus unhappy with most things cannot be the only scope used to look at this genre in the entertainment world. always use that same childish viewpoint. does it make me think and feel and want to become that character if even for a moment. the live action super hero genre in general is bothersome to me. dceu corp got rid of the rock as black adam womp womp then henry cavill is gone too? ok so all strong men are being removed from the super hero world in the live action version which is hilariously contradictory to what a super hero is and should be. imo the live action category is pretty trashy in general. black adam was sick but a little lackluster. i value your work and efforts gentlemen and wholeheartedly endorse your claims and reasonings my good sirs.
I think they are finding the breaking point on how thin they can stretch Marvel Thor, Hulk, Dr. strange are cool! But when you start getting to third tier characters like Ms. Marvel and Monica Rambeaux you have stretched it too thin! Hopefully XMen will be what they need to revitalize it!
They had successful movies with "no tier" characters like Ant-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy. It's pretty silly to suggest using characters like Monica Rambeau or Ms. Marvel is somehow going too far lol.
@@Rockscissorspaper Ant Man has his own individual power! He can shrink! That’s a cool power! Guardians also have individual powers! The Marvels powers to me seem undefined and have little difference to the other Superheroes powers! You have to have a cool unique power! I’m bot even sure what those characters can do! Pass between objects? Create physical matter? They don’t really look cool or have cool names? Pretty weak!
I quite enjoyed the movie for my part, I went in with no expectations and knew what kind of movie I was facing having watch the first one. It's clear WB had been trying to go after the MCU crowd with their last set of DCEU movies, the movie is on par with the rest by being ligth-hearted, comedic, action pack and no major stake at its core. I genuinely liked everything about the movie except for Jason Momoa who looked like he wasn't even trying to act anymore, the guy looked lazy and had way too much fun in this one.. for some reason I didn't believe him as Aquaman anymore but a fraud. Patrick Wilson however was the highlight and had way more gravitas. Also the world building is still pretty well don and couldn't help but seeing under-water Star Wars, especially in the haven pirate scene.
I do not want to see an X-Men vs Avengers movie unless it's part of Secret Wars or they use Rogue taking Carol Danvers powers as one of the big storylines. Otherwise, I don't know where it would fit.
I'm not well versed in this storyline but what is the ultimate point of Rogue taking Captain Marvel's powers? I see it posted a lot in comments sections and it usually ties in with people disliking Brie Larson. Is there a purpose to Rogue taking her powers?
@@terrymcginnis01Rogue was a villain at the time and Destiny (Mystique's partner who was taking care of Rogue) had a vision of Carol Danvers (who wasn't Captain Marvel at the time btw) ruining Rogue's life. Also iirc Rogue took Carol's powers by mistake when they were fighting. She wasn't trying to do so on purpose or she didn't know what would happen when she touched Carol something like that. It's been a minute lol But yeah a lot of people who say "Rogue take Captain Marvel's powers" probably don't know about Rogue's villain backstory and Carol Danvers history
@@terrymcginnis01 It's an epic event. I first knew about it from the animated series but same outcome as the comics for the most part. Rogue was with the Brotherhood and Mystique had Rogue take Ms Marvel's (Carol) permanently that left her in a coma. That's where Rogue got her flight and strength from but she was haunted by Carol's mind trapped in her body. With how Feige made her so overpowered in the MCU, this would be perfect for her to go out.
Young Avengers would be A wonderful idea after we move away from these upcoming movies. Young Audiences need this kind of movie, just with A actual good script, because with A good script then it will work. These characters can work without being resorted to the migufin of the story.
Rotten Tomatoes has an average rating section no one looks at which really should be what people see first instead of the percentage of positive reviews. The average rating for Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom from critics is 4.8/10.
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Now that Aquaman 2 is out and the DCEU is officially dead, I’d love for you to have Kalinowski and Roxy on to do a DCEU post-mortem. It’d be a mini DC Movie news reunion!
Yes please Mike would be great on the DCEU aftermath.
Yeah, I think this would be a fun, great idea. I mean, if it would be pulled off, I would love a grand panel of Coy, Winston Roxy and Mike.
Coy’s point at 39:35 is absolutely spot on about Gen Z audiences and Marvel having to age up their material - they need to keep their longtime fans loyal and on side and the only way they can do that is by keeping their interest and producing more mature material that is of a good quality (hopefully Echo, Deadpool 3, Daredevil BA, Blade will be examples of this).
I did the Leo DiCaprio meme thing when he said that. Felt similar for quite some time now, was validating to hear here!
He’s 100% right. They’re trying to bring a new audience when the real lovers of Marvel have been here all along
The audience is for everyone
@@Fan-Nimater101 it has been for a long time…but they are now struggling to keep all the different segments of the audience interested as audiences grow older and Gen Z audiences start becoming more prominent, and they must be realising quickly that they are not striking a chord with Gen Z..
Forget about young avengers
Who are THE AVENGERS NOW😅
Facts
Well Doctor Strange apparently isn’t one according to Benedict Cumberbatch.
Lol so true. Where is Shang Chi??? He should be leading the new team alongside Wong and we haven't seen him in anything since
Why does Marvel think that people only respond to characters in their specific demographic? Young people and women were already onboard for the OG characters in the golden era. The more you try to microtarget specific parts of the audience, the more you fail more often than not. Their movies used to appeal to everyone and they made bank.
I mean we kinda do. The problem is they keep throwing these characters we love in shitty movies and focusing more on there already established characters. I would rather have A kick ass Ms. Marvel movie then to have her shoehorn into A lame Marvels movie.
I feel like Kristian has gone through a journey of rediscovery with film in a way that I’m excited for this upcoming year. I feel like there are higher standards, and when Kristian gets excited for a movie now, I put it up at the top of my list
Having kids he can take to movies or watch things together has given him a different perspective, too.
you can't say one of the reasons that people didn't see the Marvels is because they felt lost because they never watched the TV shows and then say they need to set up the young Avengers in a TV show.
Yeah, that’s very hypocritical to say.
I admire Winston being wrong and just planting his flag on that hill despite Kristian and Coy pelting him with all those facts. Not enough people cared about The Marvels to turn out and support it and it's doubtful anyone will turn out for Young Avengers with those three leads.
33 year old Hayley Steinfeld in YOUNG avengers.....lmfao
She'll be 40 by the time it gets made 💀
I actually enjoyed Aquaman, I was surprised how good it was after hearing all of the bad reviews.
Yeah I don't think it's unbearable like Kristian & Coy described it's much like a lot of the rest of the DCEU, it's ok. Probably a 5.5/6 out of 10. Not gonna win any Oscars but an entertaining time at the movies
Just rewatched Hawkeye. Absolutely loved it. Kate Bishop should be leading the Young Avengers but I agree it should be a series.
Dude I just finished rewatching Hawkeye as well and I agree Kate would be great.
I appreciate Winston's enthusiasm for Young Avengers because it's not the first time he seems excited to that idea on previous episodes.....but literary nobody would go watch that movie, for many of the reasons Kristian mentioned
The one thing a comic book movie can’t afford to be is boring.
Fact
Honestly the Young Avengers skepticism feels rooted in the word YOUNG, Ive seen so many people dismiss the idea without knowing anything about the team or their stories. Even in comics Ive always felt that YOUNG moniker was a barrier to entry for some. The entire Young Avengers arc also involves the actual Avengers as well so Ive never been trepidatious about the concept as a film.
Which if people actually read the comics, they will know how great a YA potentially could be. But I would change who leads imo
@@babytoshiro7014 Yeah, they just haven’t done a good job setting it up other than having random characters appear. Kamala can’t lead them. I understand completely if people don’t want something like the Champions where that original run by Waid stunk.
Alan Heinberg did such a good job with the comic, hell he's working on sandman right now and that rules too.
Agreed, it's much like how people used to hate in Tom Holland calling him Iron Man Jr. They should go with The Champions for the name instead especially since it seems Kamala is bringing the team together like in the comics
Young Avengers = Disney believing the older Marvel fans have been squeezed dry, and it's now time to give up on them and focus on kids.
Wut
That’s literally false and proves you know nothing about the Young Avengers.
@@DanV900Seems a great deal never read the first 2 vol of Young Avengers.
Too bad Allan gave up on the comic he created.
@@babytoshiro7014 Yes, many people didn’t read it and that accounts for most people not reading comics in general. The Young Avengers literally involve the Avengers and one of the characters as a reveal being a young Kang who went back in time where he doesn’t want to become the conqueror makes perfect sense for a movie if it was all planned. Allan Heinberg didn’t give up on it and his original run of 12 issues was great. His sequel with the Children’s Crusade was very good and then the Guillen and McKelvie was great too. It was just meant to be a 12 issue limited series originally where the Children’s Crusade was never part of the plan. It was the first comic Heinberg wrote and he wasn’t getting an ongoing where he said after the 12 issues came out what the plan was.
wait?! their trying to make money?! noooooo.. say it ain’t so. 😢
Take a shot every time Kristian says “colossal error” 😆
Coys sweater is dope as hell.
Me and my girlfriend had fun watching this movie. Was it bad and dumb? Yes. But was it also fun? Yes
Young Avengers is not what the MCU needs right now. They don’t even know what to do with the main team. Who’d even be on the Young Avengers anyway?
Winston looks baaaaaaaaaked here hahahaha
For the number of characters in a Young Avengers project they need a series. Nobody cares about those characters enough to carry a film and nobody knows enough about them to develop them all and make us care in 2 hours. Dumb idea.
Regarding the "young avengers". People have to care about the characters... Other than very small parts of the internet and fandom, the masses (who are needed to make a large budgeted movie a success) just don't care about these characters. Nothing to do with "wokeness" or "politics".
Marvel is in danger as a brand (just like star wars) because its main fans are getting older and younger generations aren't into it like older fans were at the same age (in raw numbers).
Its tricky... Do you alienate your reliable fanbase to chase a younger one... Who doesn't have the same brand loyalty as the "old" fans? And increasingly more and more I.P is doing this to mixed results at the very best.
Totally true
I enjoy all of the Disney+ series but what they should have done is introduce each of the "Young Avengers" alongside the OG characters in their own movies (like how they introduced Black Panther and Spider-Man in Civil War) and then fleshed them out in Disney+ series. Like you said not every casual consumer is watching Disney+ or cares about it.
I feel like I watched a different movie than you guys (respecting your opinion). I really enjoyed Aquaman 2. I also really liked the first film as well. The dialogue or screenplay didn't bother me. The story was pretty good. Some action sequences were amazing. The visuals were great by and large. You guys used the word "boring" to describe Aquaman 2. I would describe it as a fun, high fantasy, and high adventure movie. Nothing boring about it. Anyway, thats my take. Thanks for the show fellas!
Kristian is right on about earning it for these comic movies. A great example is the first Deadpool. Great set piece in the beginning in the movie followed by STORY and an ending battle that feels earned
Yes and Deadpool was CHEAP to make!!
The problem with Young Avengers is the same as West Coast Avengers: nobody gives af!
Universe six sixteen might be the most old man thing Kristian has ever said.
Thanks for all the shows this year. Been a real good mix and always positive and fun. Have a good Christmas everyone.
About Young Avengers, if they wait a lot they would have to remove the word "Young" from the title
Hailee steinfeld will be about the same age chris Evans was when he started as cap.
They only need to be younger than whoever the _actual_ Avengers end up being for the title to be correct… so they'll still be fine.
My dad and I just saw Aquaman 2 and both of us really enjoyed it. Its like a solid 7 out of 10. Its not perfect and its not gonna win any awards but its very enjoyable. I think you guys are being too hard on it
Yeah they're acting like it's as bad as Ayers Suicide Squad and it's nowhere near that level of bad
Just make comic movies for older audience. Kids show up to those, adults don’t show up to kid/teen aimed movies. Even as a show I still see young avengers failing to bring the viewership they want. The shows aside from Loki just don’t provide a good enough story to justify 6 episodes and they want to make them longer.
The other point no one mentioned is that currently it’s just an all girls team of 4. Even if they add 1 guy, there is no way in hell I’m watching that movie. They are gearing to an audience that doesn’t watch it. All of us actual paying audience are getting ignored. It’s a dumb idea that will flop even if they are introduced over time.
Disney has an overall problem of forgetting who their actual audience is. They did it with animation, ignoring parents. With Star Wars, killing legacy characters & bad scripts and now with marvel. Disney have no idea how to actually give their buying customers what they want anymore. This upcoming Ff movie will be the decision on whether it’s dead to me for good or not
These Young Avengers aren't going to be very YOUNG, by the time they make this $hit
One of the complaints about The Marvels is that no one knew 2 of the characters because not everyone watches/has Disney+, so doing a Young Avengers show before a movie is the same not great idea.
Seeing Aquaman tonight and still hopeful. Just looks like dumb fun
A Young Avengers movie is a horrible idea and they have to know it when they look at the numbers. Bunch of D list characters who mostly had piss poor introductions and the majority of them on D+ at that. Not to mention the concept is first brought up in the biggest MCU bomb of all time. How tf can they think that would work? The MCU now reminds me of the 2015 All New All Different era in the comics when they tried to force feed readers things they didn't want and failed. Why are they trying to emulate that disaster?
Idk, if I agree with Winston about the Marvels and women, there are 7 women in my immediate personal life that I interact with on a daily basis. Out of those 7, only two are super fans of Marvel and they didn't go see the Marvels because they just didn't feel like it was worth a trip to the theatre because they did not expect it to be good based off of what they had read online about it and in discussing it with friends. Out of the other 5 women, 3 are moms and 2 are grandmas and they rarely get to the theatre at all and they don't really watch things like Marvel or Star Wars.
The demographic that turned out most for The Marvels was actually white men and women didn’t support the movie as much since they didn’t care. So Marvel knows who actually shows up and Coy isn’t wrong about making sure you don’t leave your original audience which obviously wasn’t just white men behind.
The only reason I feel that the Young Avengers should never be a thing that happens in the MCU as it today (maybe in cinematic "universe" that was solely centered on the team itself), is because be the time the first film came out (and 100% its sequel): the "youth" won't be the youth anymore. It should just be New Avengers and go from there.
The Young Avengers are teenagers, but they’re closer to 18 and really the only young one is Iman Vellani as Kamala. Everyone else cast so far is older than her.
I watched the movie in the theater and I disagree so much with Kristian and everyone else saying it's a bad movie. It's a good fun movie that needs to be seen in theater. Could have been better? Yes, but due to drama behind the scenes and merger I was surprised it came out decent.
And in some ways - Marvel might have been better off keeping all their younger / lighter / new generation content only on Disney+ - and keep developing the older / more serious / saga-focused material in theaters or as Film events on D+. Imagine a 2 part film of Loki S2 material released a year apart, or maybe even six months apart.
And the DCEU goes out with a whimper.
Didn't like the movie?
@@peteparker22 just got out of it and I really liked it!
@@EleventhCubFan nice to hear! I actually enjoyed it overall. Probably a 3/5 at least
I understand the controversy surrounding such a thing and I understand that everyone behind the scenes was grieving but I will die on this hill saying that Yahya Abdul Mateen should have taken on the character of T’Challa after Chadwick Boseman died. That’s a role that is worthy of his talents as an actor. He’s been wasted in these Aquaman films as Black Manta. Everyone harped on the idea that recasting would be unfair to a new actor, which I think is silly because any lead role on that scale is a difficult undertaking but between Watchmen and other performances Mateen himself is a super star talent worthy of a role like Black Panther. Hearing he’s wasted even more is heartbreaking.
Black Manta as a character doesn’t even really have agency in The Lost Kingdom. I saw significantly more people say that T’Challa should have been recast and I didn’t see anyone say it would be unfair to a new actor. If he could do a convincing accent like Boseman, he was talented enough to take over.
Aquaman 2 was good, man. Not terrible.
Enjoyed it way more than Dr. Strange 2 and Thor: Love and Thunder and Captain Marvel for sure. \o/
I am not interested in a Young Avengers movie or Disney+ series. Marvel studios needs to pause and focus on the main characters people want to see before it’s too late. Maybe we are already there?
One of the most famous kang stories was a young avengers run if they retool kangs dynasty to be a young avengers movie they could do that storyline and recast majors as younger.
I have be honest, I find it very hard to believe that we will specifically get a Young Avengers film when we still don't even have Avengers 5 and 6 ready to go. If it were to happen it would be after those films and ALSO my best guess is that the Young Avengers are going to be featured in the next Avengers film anyway even if not called "Young Avengers". I highly doubt a solo Avengers film for them is going to get made.
They’ve been setting it up horribly for years. How did you not see it? Lol just kidding. They have been setting it up but it’s been terrible and hopefully they don’t do it
@@bobbyfischer9927 I don't personally think it's much to do with setting it up as they are just establishing new characters that COULD be an ensemble for a future Avengers film
Its more likely we get an unofficial “Young Avengers formation” in Films like Thunderbolts and Secret wars, rather than Have it just pop up first as an IP in 2027/2028. We’ll see the young avengers bc they are integral to secret wars, before they get their own time on screen.
@@samthomas3383 exactly my point they don't get their own movie but we see the formation of them
Merry Christmas, fellas!!! I love Coy's sweater.
WBD/James Wan had 5 YEARS to make a kick-ass sequel and they completely blew it!
The one problem I see with waiting years for young avengers is Hailee Steinfeld will be like 31-32 when it’s out. At that point the young cast they have now won’t be so young anymore. But if they can get Miles from Sony to be in it, the box office/hype for the show would significantly increase.
8:45 Tell that to Israel Winston. 20,000 dead. 8,000 of them children.
I liked Hawkeye. It's actually one of my favorites of the MCU shows. Let's not suddenly retroactively re-write the narrative just because recent entries have been mediocre.
29:51 I don't think there should be a Young Avengers. I think Kate Bishop and Ms Marvel (don't really care about anyone else) should be integrated into the main Avengers team alongside the older characters. It'll give audiences an opportunity to endear themselves to them since you already have a greater chance of people watching an Avengers movie than some kids that are just derivative of already established characters
46:40 I disagree that it's too late for them to change course on the multiverse. All they would need to do is drop the multiverse as a saga and just relegate it to a storyline within a Doctor Strange movie. The next Doctor Strange could be a Civil War type event with several heroes teaming up to fix the incursions and fixing the MCU main 616 storyline.. They then can retool the main Saga storyline with other characters - The Avengers, FF, Spider-Man facing an MCU focused villian like Galactus, Doom etc.
They need to drop the multiverse. It's just nostalgia bait nonsense that has been nothing more than an excuse to drop in has-been characters/actors from old Marvel movies. This has broken the MCU's narrative and forward momentum. I don't care about the multiverse. Never have and now that they potentially won't be recasting Kang, it's time to move away from it for the sake of the MCU's survival. Thanos and the Infinity Stones worked because we had a easy to follow storyline. The multiverse is a mess.
Aint nobody calling twitter “X”, we all just say twitter
Nando movies made a brilliant pitch for a young avengers film which if marvel does anything like it I think would be good. Just need good storytelling, writing, and dialogue between these characters. If done well people will like it.
i'm down to journey to avalon
Personally, I think it's safe to say that Thunderbolts is going to bomb hard as well.
I disagree. It's not safe to say that at all. With Marvel Studios returning back to their roots of making films, I think Thunderbolts will be the Guardians of the Galaxy of 2025.
Young Avengers would be bad only if it presupposes everyone having seen the Disney Plus offerings, which they have not. I am up for it, but I have seen everything so I am not the one they need to convince.
"A piece of candy corn?" "Well they all can't be winners."
no one even knows who the avengers are gonna be or even care about these new adult avengers... ZERO people want a young avengers movie
I somewhat agree. I reckon that them being wanted or not matters much less if what's offered is ultimately high quality… but if past is prologue confidence in the quality isn't that strong. So yeah, if it's good, great. It makes a bad situation worse if not, though.
Your podcast set looks so damn good!
I really don't care which character they bring from Sony to MCU. This whole sharing custody between MCU & Sony is not working anymore. It's very tedious at this point.
I don’t mind Young Avengers but it has to be 4-5 years from now. Marvel has all these characters that frankly I like but they’re just there and I would like to see what their status is. What are they doing? How they contributing to greater MCU. They need to do something with those characters.
Hawkeye was great and most people seemed to enjoy it as a small stakes show. Don’t agree with Winston saying most people did not like it.
I’d be interested in a Young Avengers movie, but I don’t really think people care about them, since they’ve mainly been in Disney+ shows so far.
Well that and two of the main characters have been in box office bombs. Kamala and Antman daughter
Winston: You merely adopted the theatre. I was born in it, molded by it.
P.s. not a dig.
Agreed! I always get confused when people say, "It was not a good film, but it was fun/entertaining". Doesn't that statement contradict itself?
No. Entertainment takes many forms, it could be heartbreak or hand grenades, and could also either be tried and tested or new and unseen. Therefore it being enjoyable in the moment and/or of objective merit upon reflection are quite different assessments.
Great show, guys! 😎👍
Marvel has missed multiple opportunities to 'reset' after the conclusion of End Game and it's too bad. Even with the end of No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness along with Loki season 2, I was so ready to have a completely new 'reality' start. Instead, we're mainly getting movies for no one and a complete lack of 'epic storytelling'.
Jason M is not a “great actor”. He’s an actor. But it’s his presence that makes him a star, not his acting chops
Coys sweater is lit.
Young avengers might work if it has like 125 million dollar budget. I doubt any of those actors demand huge money except hailee steinfield. The timing is not good if marvel was on a roll they could get away with it. Marvel needs to focus fixing Thor and hulk. Sequels for Spiderman and strange. Give us new characters like ghost rider and nova
In my theater as soon as the mid credit scene was over someone started playing sad violin music on their phone.
It was hilarious
They have to start Setting up Doom, but unfortunately I dont believe he has a long enough runway Post F4 to establish how big of a threat he is when he becomes God Doom. You have to physically see/feel the on screen deaths that he has to cause.
I think the multiverse problem was accentuated by Sony using it as a get out of jail free card for terrible executive decisions. Say what you will about the way the MCU has used the multiverse as a concept I think Sony using it as a catch all to just make anything happen is souring any possibility of appreciating the concept fully?
BTW coy sweater is 🔥🔥🔥
Young avengers movie would be a bigger flop than The Marvels
Coy is right, the ending of Enemy isn't satisfying IMO, even though I think I understood it. Or maybe I'm just a confident idiot 😂.
This is so subtle but I been cracking up for 20 minutes when ur talking about Aquaman not being released last year perhaps bc of Avatar and Winston goes “2 water movies 😂
Young Avengers could be the new version of Guardians. Nobody knew who the fuck Star Lord was or anything and that movie kicked ass. People want good movies with good characters. You don't need audiences to know the IP in order to see it. Make a Deadpool budgeted Young Avengers and you will make your money back in the first week worldwide.
I thought introducing the multiverse to the MCU during Endgame was a bad idea. It creates no consequences and quick resolutions to any plot holes. It was a slippery slope and the MCU has fallen.
Ms Marvel needs to be relegated to a side character like Kitty Pride. If shes a main attraction in any upcoming movie then its going to fail imo. People dont care about her character.
Young Avengers is a TERRIBLE idea. I’m sorry but nobody wants a Degrassi Marvel movie. Marvel and DC need to take a huge step back
Sorry to disagree fellas, but rather if you think the movie is good or not, I was never bored, and thought the film was actually good and fun and better then the first movie. Just my opinion, always glad to listen to y'all opinion.
Looking forward to the year recap boys. Love the show, have a great holiday!
Young Avengers: A Disney plus original film
Like arrivals very confusing in the beginning and the Las act every thing becomes clear
LOL young avengers? How about they focus on bringing up the loads of characters that have been under developed for the last couple of years smh
Fantastic episode as always. Love from over the pond.
As I before, I suspect Aquaman 2 was a better film BEFORE the reshoots and extensive cuts. And i’m guessing the reshoots and cuts were a result of this universe being scrapped.
I love that Kristian was just over it all at the end there! LOL (I wrote it because I know you really love it when people use LOL). Messing with you Kristian. We all feel that way sometimes, like we are over it. I'm over comic book movies for the time being, at least, I'm not going to the theatre anymore to see them. I catch them when get to streaming when I have some down time.
I was going to see Aquaman 2, thanks for saving me the money. I genuinely enjoy the first one.
I have no interest in Young Avengers BUT I realise that it’s not being made for people of my age. If I were a kid i’d probably be very excited about it. And I think we need to remember this before we rage out about films like that.
The Young Avengers in the comics were not marketed for children and started after Avengers Disassembled. One of the core characters is Iron Lad who went back in time and is revealed to be a young Kang who doesn’t want to be the conqueror of the future. It’s a story that is literally for adults and the sequel involves Billy and Teddy trying to find Scarlet Witch.
@@DanV900 Thank you. I was unaware of this.
@@SoulStylistJukeBox You’re welcome! The characters even mock being called that name by the media.
This dropping on Spotify soon ?! 😮
Hey, who let my homeless vet Uncle in the studio!? Oh wait… thats Winston, never mind. Jk 😜
jesus thank you, a professional non fan boy unbiased other than the basic level of love necesssary to create a comic/comic movie talk show, talk show. this is dope and I will be honest I have skipped over these thumbnails for a good while and this is my first time viewing. i think its hilarious that you are all sayin what I have been feeling for quite sum time about many comic movies. to me literally the spiderverse movies are the only thing killing the entertainment industry in the best ways possible. i have always said these things should be kept to an animated world and simply modernized personality and technology wise. i do feel most of the pieces are to highly scrutinized by picky fans. which is why i always simplify all of it by this categorization, is it simply entertaining. is it making me feel the script the way the comics do? only spiderverse scores are doing that. i smile i laugh i feel the scenes. these early spiderverse movies are revving things up so i dont put them to the flame right away. i give them ample time to work up to the crescendo that is at the heart of any and all series'. grown ups that are jus unhappy with most things cannot be the only scope used to look at this genre in the entertainment world. always use that same childish viewpoint. does it make me think and feel and want to become that character if even for a moment. the live action super hero genre in general is bothersome to me. dceu corp got rid of the rock as black adam womp womp then henry cavill is gone too? ok so all strong men are being removed from the super hero world in the live action version which is hilariously contradictory to what a super hero is and should be. imo the live action category is pretty trashy in general. black adam was sick but a little lackluster. i value your work and efforts gentlemen and wholeheartedly endorse your claims and reasonings my good sirs.
Avengers vs Xmen is a slam dunk
I think they are finding the breaking point on how thin they can stretch Marvel Thor, Hulk, Dr. strange are cool! But when you start getting to third tier characters like Ms. Marvel and Monica Rambeaux you have stretched it too thin! Hopefully XMen will be what they need to revitalize it!
They need to just reboot IMO
They had successful movies with "no tier" characters like Ant-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy. It's pretty silly to suggest using characters like Monica Rambeau or Ms. Marvel is somehow going too far lol.
@@rhetro777 isn’t multiverse basically a reboot without having to reboot? You can bring every character back to life!
@@Rockscissorspaper Ant Man has his own individual power! He can shrink! That’s a cool power! Guardians also have individual powers! The Marvels powers to me seem undefined and have little difference to the other Superheroes powers! You have to have a cool unique power! I’m bot even sure what those characters can do! Pass between objects? Create physical matter? They don’t really look cool or have cool names? Pretty weak!
I quite enjoyed the movie for my part, I went in with no expectations and knew what kind of movie I was facing having watch the first one.
It's clear WB had been trying to go after the MCU crowd with their last set of DCEU movies, the movie is on par with the rest by being ligth-hearted, comedic, action pack and no major stake at its core.
I genuinely liked everything about the movie except for Jason Momoa who looked like he wasn't even trying to act anymore, the guy looked lazy and had way too much fun in this one.. for some reason I didn't believe him as Aquaman anymore but a fraud. Patrick Wilson however was the highlight and had way more gravitas.
Also the world building is still pretty well don and couldn't help but seeing under-water Star Wars, especially in the haven pirate scene.
So many times I watch reviews and I feel the creators are skating around how they really feel or what they want to say. No offence coy…
Then watch the spoiler review where I can actually say what I wanted to say. Monday
@@CoyJandreau ohhhh was it because of an embargo?
I'm loving the multiverse saga in the mcu.
Are we not talking about Jonathan majors since it was talked about on Monday with Rocha?
Yeah we covered it pretty deep on Monday when it broke.
I do not want to see an X-Men vs Avengers movie unless it's part of Secret Wars or they use Rogue taking Carol Danvers powers as one of the big storylines. Otherwise, I don't know where it would fit.
I'm not well versed in this storyline but what is the ultimate point of Rogue taking Captain Marvel's powers? I see it posted a lot in comments sections and it usually ties in with people disliking Brie Larson. Is there a purpose to Rogue taking her powers?
@@terrymcginnis01Rogue was a villain at the time and Destiny (Mystique's partner who was taking care of Rogue) had a vision of Carol Danvers (who wasn't Captain Marvel at the time btw) ruining Rogue's life. Also iirc Rogue took Carol's powers by mistake when they were fighting. She wasn't trying to do so on purpose or she didn't know what would happen when she touched Carol something like that. It's been a minute lol
But yeah a lot of people who say "Rogue take Captain Marvel's powers" probably don't know about Rogue's villain backstory and Carol Danvers history
@@terrymcginnis01 It's an epic event. I first knew about it from the animated series but same outcome as the comics for the most part. Rogue was with the Brotherhood and Mystique had Rogue take Ms Marvel's (Carol) permanently that left her in a coma. That's where Rogue got her flight and strength from but she was haunted by Carol's mind trapped in her body. With how Feige made her so overpowered in the MCU, this would be perfect for her to go out.
Young Avengers would be A wonderful idea after we move away from these upcoming movies. Young Audiences need this kind of movie, just with A actual good script, because with A good script then it will work. These characters can work without being resorted to the migufin of the story.
So I went to aquaman 2. I give it a C+, I chuckled a few times. But it really wasn't that great.
That's more or less how I felt about it.
@@aaronblum9555 I laughed at the dontforget Wilson joke
Rotten Tomatoes has an average rating section no one looks at which really should be what people see first instead of the percentage of positive reviews. The average rating for Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom from critics is 4.8/10.