I just want to shake my head with you Dean. Those chips inside the chuck would have driven me absolutely crazy as well. I am so glad you were able to catch that those were still on the inside. Who wants to use a chuck with chips already inside of it? That is something you get to do. :) the other stuff.....one un alive horse beating after another...the grind tolerance I would suspect to be +/-0.00025 give or take a hot day. I think you had said the face place fit correctly. You could buy another chuck and if it fits the about the same spend the time to regrind the spindle nose(not sure if you have that tooling) regrind the chuck backs...same amount of work as the spindle nose...in all on that sort of taper .00005 either direction could make all the difference. I think someone's comment concerning the runout of that type of chuck is pretty much on. The nose would have had to have been ground on the high side and both of those chucks to be on the low. ah that could just be it. inspection equipment wears out as well. it is possible that the chuck gages are worn and thus smaller grinds are made on the chucks. flip flop for the spindle. lots of what if's. I wonder if a brass shim .007 or .008 thick would smush or even aluminum. to get some squishyness and conformity. or just an aluminum ring around the outside of the cams. more thinking required. Great video :) dang chips in the brand new chuck..... Yeah, 6 pieces of brass wire pointing into the center, tighten up one chuck, remove, measure new wire thickness...shim accordingly.
Phil, Massive thanks for you insight, time on the phone and shared head scratching. It was sure an unexpected rabbet hole issue, with all details and time required to setup a new shop lathe it certainly came from left field. You got me thinking on that soft wire (plasti-gauge idea). Again Thanks so much for your help... ATB...Dean
Excellent job of correcting the problem. If I had a 3 jaw that was that close my head would be so swollen up, so big I couldn't wear a hat. I am sure you already know this, but Patience is often the difference between failure and success when it comes to precision. Thanks for bringing us along.
Thanks Terry, It was sure a path I wasn't expecting to go down. Odds are I'll be digging deeper into this later on as time permits. Thanks for viewing / commenting.. ATB...Dean
@@TheAyrCaveShop It looked like most of your issues were with mounting it to the lathe. My lathe has a screw on spindle and I need to make the backing plate. I hope my actual chuck is as good as yours.
Not an expert, but mr. Pete's video on 3 jaws taught me a lot. 0.002 for a 3 jaw is in spec. Temp's really do have an efect for sure. Good video, thx for sharing. Hope you guys out west are drying out ? Bear.
Ya can only expect so much from a 3 jaw scroll chuck . To get any real accuracy out of them, you have to play around with them as much as you would a 4 jaw . You could play the "return game" and go through a dozen chucks and probably not gain much, if anything. A 3 jaw that would be better may cost you mega-dollars . Looks to me that you're doing pretty good with what ya got -- time to see what you can come up with for a really good 4 jaw . Good job, as always ! 👍
I’ve never seen this problem. I’ve asked around and nobody I know has either. Since you’re having this rare problem with both chucks, the only commonality is the lathe spindle. I doubt another chuck would alleviate it because of that. The shim solution seems pretty good. I’ve also never had to tap a chuck off with a mallet. Last year I bought a new Buck 8” and it fits my lathe without a problem. It comes right off when I loosen the cams as do my other, older chucks. If a chuck is stuck after loosening it I would have to think that it’s not right.
Defective? No problem, just box it up and ship it. This is generally the mainland Chinese mindset. Plan on anything you buy from there being a kit that you have to finish. If you use any of this stuff to make a living, you avoid it like the plague. If you have a hobby shop and have more time than money it may be worth it to fix it enough to be usable. You might get lucky and have it be ok out of the box. It may cost 25% more, but people buy Taiwanese tooling for a reason. Sometimes with careful shopping you can get Taiwanese made for the same price or even cheaper if you add in the cost of shipping of heavy items. I was able to do this with a Vertex milling machine vice and a rotary table. I just watched the "New to the shop #6" video. It appears that your new chuck may be ok and the spindle in the lathe is ground wrong. It's the reason the lathe's previous owner had to put a shim behind the chuck that came with the lathe. Looks like the spindle's mounting face was ground a few thousand's of an inch too deep. This may be correctable in place with a tool post grinder. Regrind the spindle nose taper about 0.0005" at a time on the diameter until the chuck just seats against the flat face.
Yeah I'm pretty sure its the lathe spindle... This Enco is vintage 2005, the manufacturing county isn't marked, but the included chucks are definitely china, so that's a pretty good clue. I was actually quite pleased "surprised" at how nice the Shars chuck was finished, it even included a human filled out wet ink inspection card w/matching serial number.. They seem to hold a better QA standard than the other off brand importers, for what that's worth. I got a incredible deal on this lathe and I'm just a retired home hobbyist so I don't mind a little sweat equity. A buddy recommend grinding a spindle nose test gauge first... I like that and I can use it for checking the 4-jaw that's got an issue as well... Thanks....all good information and advice... ATB....Dean
I just want to shake my head with you Dean. Those chips inside the chuck would have driven me absolutely crazy as well. I am so glad you were able to catch that those were still on the inside. Who wants to use a chuck with chips already inside of it? That is something you get to do. :) the other stuff.....one un alive horse beating after another...the grind tolerance I would suspect to be +/-0.00025 give or take a hot day. I think you had said the face place fit correctly. You could buy another chuck and if it fits the about the same spend the time to regrind the spindle nose(not sure if you have that tooling) regrind the chuck backs...same amount of work as the spindle nose...in all on that sort of taper .00005 either direction could make all the difference. I think someone's comment concerning the runout of that type of chuck is pretty much on. The nose would have had to have been ground on the high side and both of those chucks to be on the low. ah that could just be it. inspection equipment wears out as well. it is possible that the chuck gages are worn and thus smaller grinds are made on the chucks. flip flop for the spindle. lots of what if's. I wonder if a brass shim .007 or .008 thick would smush or even aluminum. to get some squishyness and conformity. or just an aluminum ring around the outside of the cams. more thinking required. Great video :) dang chips in the brand new chuck..... Yeah, 6 pieces of brass wire pointing into the center, tighten up one chuck, remove, measure new wire thickness...shim accordingly.
Phil, Massive thanks for you insight, time on the phone and shared head scratching. It was sure an unexpected rabbet hole issue, with all details and time required to setup a new shop lathe it certainly came from left field. You got me thinking on that soft wire (plasti-gauge idea).
Again Thanks so much for your help...
ATB...Dean
I really like the way you went through that new chuck. It was interesting to see how you worked through the issues and the outcome looks great
Excellent job of correcting the problem. If I had a 3 jaw that was that close my head would be so swollen up, so big I couldn't wear a hat. I am sure you already know this, but Patience is often the difference between failure and success when it comes to precision. Thanks for bringing us along.
Thanks Terry, It was sure a path I wasn't expecting to go down. Odds are I'll be digging deeper into this later on as time permits.
Thanks for viewing / commenting..
ATB...Dean
That was quite a fight. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Very timely. I just got a new 6 jaw and want to do the same thing. I learned a few things, thanks!
Thanks Mick, Hope yours's goes a bit smoother..
@@TheAyrCaveShop It looked like most of your issues were with mounting it to the lathe. My lathe has a screw on spindle and I need to make the backing plate. I hope my actual chuck is as good as yours.
enjoyed….good discussion and outcome….koko
Thanks Harold KOKO
Great video!
Very informative 😊
Cheers Neil
Thanks Nell !
Not an expert, but mr. Pete's video on 3 jaws taught me a lot. 0.002 for a 3 jaw is in spec. Temp's really do have an efect for sure. Good video, thx for sharing. Hope you guys out west are drying out ? Bear.
Yes it's quite good...Thanks Bear !
Ya can only expect so much from a 3 jaw scroll chuck . To get any real accuracy out of them, you have to play around with them as much as you would a 4 jaw . You could play the "return game" and go through a dozen chucks and probably not gain much, if anything. A 3 jaw that would be better may cost you mega-dollars . Looks to me that you're doing pretty good with what ya got -- time to see what you can come up with for a really good 4 jaw . Good job, as always ! 👍
Thanks Ken, Yeah those results ended up pretty good. That lathe spindle is defiantly wrong though, but I think were ok now for hobby use..
ATB....Dean
I’ve never seen this problem. I’ve asked around and nobody I know has either. Since you’re having this rare problem with both chucks, the only commonality is the lathe spindle. I doubt another chuck would alleviate it because of that. The shim solution seems pretty good. I’ve also never had to tap a chuck off with a mallet. Last year I bought a new Buck 8” and it fits my lathe without a problem. It comes right off when I loosen the cams as do my other, older chucks. If a chuck is stuck after loosening it I would have to think that it’s not right.
Hi Mel, yeah it's a spindle issue. Safest thing for now is keep using shims.
Thanks...Dean
Boy what an adventure. I wonder if you buy a collet chuck for the lathe at some point if you will have the same issues.
Hi Tom, Yeah I think I'll be making more shims...
Gday Dean, almost spot on, definitely useable but still you shouldn’t have to use a shim, interesting mate, cheers
Hi Matty, Yeah the saga probably not over yet....I think this will get me running for now..
ATB...Cheers.....Dean
Nice video !
Can you tell me what tool post quick change you are using
Defective? No problem, just box it up and ship it. This is generally the mainland Chinese mindset. Plan on anything you buy from there being a kit that you have to finish. If you use any of this stuff to make a living, you avoid it like the plague. If you have a hobby shop and have more time than money it may be worth it to fix it enough to be usable. You might get lucky and have it be ok out of the box.
It may cost 25% more, but people buy Taiwanese tooling for a reason. Sometimes with careful shopping you can get Taiwanese made for the same price or even cheaper if you add in the cost of shipping of heavy items. I was able to do this with a Vertex milling machine vice and a rotary table.
I just watched the "New to the shop #6" video. It appears that your new chuck may be ok and the spindle in the lathe is ground wrong. It's the reason the lathe's previous owner had to put a shim behind the chuck that came with the lathe. Looks like the spindle's mounting face was ground a few thousand's of an inch too deep. This may be correctable in place with a tool post grinder. Regrind the spindle nose taper about 0.0005" at a time on the diameter until the chuck just seats against the flat face.
Yeah I'm pretty sure its the lathe spindle... This Enco is vintage 2005, the manufacturing county isn't marked, but the included chucks are definitely china, so that's a pretty good clue. I was actually quite pleased "surprised" at how nice the Shars chuck was finished, it even included a human filled out wet ink inspection card w/matching serial number.. They seem to hold a better QA standard than the other off brand importers, for what that's worth.
I got a incredible deal on this lathe and I'm just a retired home hobbyist so I don't mind a little sweat equity. A buddy recommend grinding a spindle nose test gauge first... I like that and I can use it for checking the 4-jaw that's got an issue as well...
Thanks....all good information and advice...
ATB....Dean
First I thought you had a good one this time. And than came the cold shower...
Man, that's frustrating.
Yeah no kidding, well at least I know where the problem lies.
I think the shims will do the trick 🙏🙏
Thanks Rusti !
Not to bad and usable for a 3 jaw.. Get an adjus-tru and you will never go back.
Thanks Randy !
Interesting, I never knew these D1 mounts were so problematic.
Me too I was expecting a slam dunk...fit up
Thanks...ATB...