Mitch is acting like he didn't achieve his dominance in strongman in an incredibly short time. He's always talking about how his first competitions he did were without any experience in specific events...so...Lasha with a few months to prepare wouldn't absolutely be able to do something similar? Be reasonable. No one considered Hooper a decent deadlifter until he got the 505 to his knees, so he should know not to underestimate anyone. The carryover from cleans to a lot of strongman movements is stupidly good I imagine.
I don't think Mitch said dude can't be a strongman competitor with some training, just that dude's current training doesn't carry over to being a competitive strongman.
"No one considered Hooper a decent deadlifter until he got 505 to his knees" That is the most absurd statement I've ever heard in my life. Hooper has been an amazing deadlifter for a long time, he did 475 kg all the way back in 2021.
So I think your both right. Mitchell for saying he would not do good with minimal training for it and Zack for saying that if he blasted gear and trained specifically for it (maybe a year) then he would be near the top of the food chain.
The best comparison we have is when elite MMA fighters, who have a variety of combat skills and disciplines including boxing, sign up to fight a boxer who specializes in it. MMA fighters do change their training regimen specifically for this. But they are all getting wiped out by some youtube influencer
It is interesting that in Mitch's evidence, he uses skill and efficiency of movement as a detracting argument(or at the least, a method of downplaying raw strength) when, in order to compete and even win against some of the most freakishly large competitors in strongman, Mitch himself must use skill and efficiency of movement. It's almost as if skill matters in any discipline.
What on earth. Olympic lifting uses POWER. It uses speed and getting under the bar. You can't just say one sport uses technique and the other spotr uses technique so same thing.
@@boliusabol822 Strength and power are related. If you don't have the strength to do a thing, I'd imagine it would be difficult to exhibit power at that same (or highly related) thing. I agree that you can't just say that one skill and another skill are the same thing. That's why I didn't. What I said is that skill is an essential part of excellence in a thing. This is especially true at the highest levels. If Mitch had just said "of course not, for the same reason why I would not be competitive as a weightlifter given the same inadequate amount of prep" there'd be no controversy. Perhaps that is the point?
@@seanwhitehall4652 But then why compare his bench with, instead of his own, to one of the single greatest static strength pressers of all time? If this is exactly what Mitch was saying, then he should offer up his own, because he says it's not that great by strongman standards, yet he is a dominant competitor.
I don't think you're following. He isn't saying skill is bad. He is saying that to transition between the sports you need to build whole new skills. And when weightlifting has such a narrow range of movements to specialise in and WSM has a very very broad range of movements it's not going to be easy to make that jump.
that's another thing, I was like does he not see the difference between a strongman deadlift (grinding and hitching allowed, 8 figure straps allowed) and basically a powerlifting deadlift with a shrug at the end
@@genericnickname1 Still any top strongmen can deadlift what a weightlifter clean deadlifts without straps or grinding etc. For most people what weight lifters clean pull would be a good powerlifters training weight not even the best of the best, just a good powerlifter
@@gaia8840 is your argument that a top strongman can do an easier lift with the same weight? It's true, but it's a really bad argument. And Hooper didn't even acknowledge it in any way, he also called it a deadlift (in his mind, deadlift is the hitching suited 8 figure strapped exercise because that's what he does)
@ No. I am saying that they only use all of that because they lift way more than weightlifter. They all can clean pull more than weightlifters do with no straps, no grind etc. We are talking about same deadlift, same equipement, Powerlifters and strongmen can lift more than weightlifter
Mitchell Hooper is arguing why he culd not compete in strongman with just a short amount of training. you are arguing that he culd if he trained for it for a long time.
And try y he himself defies that point by saying that he didn't have much specific training before getting into strongman. He really showed up out of nowhere.
@@-TK- he did lift for years, and did powerlifting comps. Every talented strongman bursts onto the scene pretty quickly because it isn’t a sport with a deep talent pool
That's stupid. He made a video on why a shotputter could do it with a short amount of training and said he'd be the strongest in the world. Mitch makes no sense
u guys are just arguing different things. mitch thinks lasha doesn’t have the tools at hand to be a top WSM competitor, not that he doesn’t have the amazing genetics that could get there through continuous hard work. He’s talking about the present and you’re talking about potential. there’s no disagreement.
He went head to head with Big Z in that comp.....all the while being criticized for using a spilt jerk technique to dominate in the OH log press. To name another who set the American record in the OH log press was Rob Kearney using the same split jerk technique. If that is not illustrative of carry-over I don't know what is. Hooper seems to be overestimating the concept of strength specificity. On the surface the difference between the log and the bar are grip and bicep strength. The fundamental compound movements of deadlift and front squat are already present for Lasha in sufficient explosive strength.
@@Kneechinfar someone with a powerful jerk will shit all over someone with a powerful strict press. The efficiency of jerks take overhead events to the next level. That is how I won my one and only strongman competition (amateur event). By having a 160kg behind the back jerk. The carryover was very noticeable.
Mitchell's argument is so hypocritical when you realise he used to be a marathon runner and shortly went on to be the worlds strongest man with a few years of training 😂
Or how other strongmen have made their way to the top from other non-strength sports within just a few years….Thor and Shaw from basketball for example
That’s not true though. Hooper has been strength training for over a decade. The whole marathon jig was like a 2 year side project, where he still continued to lift heavy. He then figured, that he’s way better at lifting heavy than running and stuck to the heavy lifting. The he did some powerlifting, upped every single one of his lifts by like 80% by with strength programming, befriended WSF, got a WSM invite and eventually rose to the peak of the sport.
How is it hypocritical hes not saying that these guys DONT have potential, he is just saying that you cant use powerlifting success etc... As an indicator of success for strongman. His background is completely irrelevant.
This is a total strawman. Gregg said do you think that lasha could be a TOP TEN strong man with 1 months training..... He did not say could he make a top strongman with the correct training, getting used to new techniques etc etc. Given a couple of years im pretty sure he could. But in 1 month, not a chance.
Later in the clip he changes his initial statement to month, year. So effectively we are both right. Still if you go with what gregg says at the start Mitchell is correct.
@@MoobloonGale personal insults aside, since Mitchell has experience in both power lifting and strongman, he is in a better position than most to say. I’d love to see Lasha in strongman to see how it goes.
Could Lasha train six months, enter a strongman competition, and be mediocre? I think so. Could a strongman champion train six months, enter a weightlifting competition, and be mediocre? No way. The demands on mobility and technique are far too great for him to be anything but dead last. He couldn't even do a semi-decent snatch at, say, 150 kg.
@@jeanpaulkassdale I doubt that. Show me anyone at all who after a mere six months of training, with no prior snatch-specific mobility work, can snatch 150 kg. I say it's impossible. I mean, have you tried? Even a light overhead squat is beyond the capability of many extremely strong people. I asked a lifter friend of mine to do an OH squat with an empty 20 kg bar. He tried, dropped the bar, and said, laughing, "nope, this is not a thing."
@ Bro a power snatch doesnt require any mobility and the technique requirements are easily reachable in 6 months. Mitch might even be strong enough to muscle snatch 150 off the bat.
That’s not really the argument tho. Yet one of the best strongmen in history was basically an Olympic lifter who kinda wandered into a strongman competition and his base skill set, talent and strength was enough for him to mog the competition
Mikhail Koklyaev, Olympic weightlifter, Strong man and Power Lifter. One of the strongest athletes of all Time. Enough to be said. There is no argument that Lasha couldnt do it as well. It would go against all Logic. The Transition from Olympic Weightlifting to other strength sports is tremendous.
First that is not the argument, we talking if he went straight to it with no training for it, and mikhail never won the major championships in any of the sports you talk about
@@gaia8840 To be fair, he did get really close. 3rd at WSM, two 2nds at IFSA (losing one by only 1.5 points), and a 3rd and a 2nd at the Arnold (losing one by only 1 point). He never won major weightlifting or powerlifting titles but he has the second highest super total of all time. Title's are a reflection of individual competitions, not the strength of a person.
@marcuschristianson493 I'm not saying the opposite. I am just saying if he was truly exceptionnal in both he would have won at least once in either. He was good. But not in the top. He never was the guy you would bet on the win
@@landlocked_lifts332 hooper was the one making the comparison and claiming that lasha couldn't squat enough to be a strongman... ignoring the fact that he'd be squatting way heavier if he was squatting like hooper did.
@@landlocked_lifts332no its not till you have tried both you dont understand the difference in difficulty . Before i did weightlifting style squats i squatted like strongmen and squatted my current max in about 3 months 2 years later i achieved that same number except highbar ass to grass . Most people i know are like this too
I don't like how we are not taking the video that greg made in to context. Zacks argument is, if Lasha in his prime, took considerable time and invested in to strongman, could he be great at it? maybe, but very likely yes, I agree. Hoopers argument is, if any top tier competitor from olympic weightlifting came now, and in gregs words, put a month in to training strongman, could he win? absolutely not.
Clean pulls are harder than deadlifts at the same weight. Does he not know that? He’s giving “I could do that” while walking through an art museum vibes
compare C+J of people who have known deadlifts and known C+J then scale to Lasha's, i.e. the Chinese. Tell me if you come up with a number north of 360 kg.
How does mark henry,one of the strongest men in history, stack against the current line of strongman field? Any current strong man records? Nope. Who was the only man to challenge his powerlifting totals? Yep Thor 😂 yep great example of how an Olympic lifter could not compete with todays athletes.
22:10 How is not clear that was the whole perogative of Mitchell's video? The question at the beginning was literally "with a (as in 1) *month* of training, wouldn't they crush a strongman comp?" Isn't it obvious that there is absolutely no point in talking about any of this when training duration is arbitrary?
Mark henry was an Olympic gold medalist but also world class power lifter. 900+sq 900+ deadlift. Great that Mitch vid is blowing up but in think Mitch was more or less saying lasha wouldn't be the top now. Give him a yr and yeah he might
@ my bad. three-time U.S. National Weightlifting Champion (1993, 1994, 1996),[11] an American Open winner (1992),[14] a two-time U.S. Olympic Festival Champion (1993 and 1994)[1] and a NACAC champion (1996).[4] He held all three Senior US American weightlifting records in 1993-1997.[22]
That's because Olympic lifting requires you to practice the same movement for decades to be competitive at a world level. Strongman is more of a brute force sport. For me, Olympic lifting is more difficult. I understand what Mitchel is trying to say, I've seen Olympic lifters struggle with movements outside of what they are used to doing in training, that's normal for any sport. Just because Lasha is the best at Olympic lifting doesn't mean he will be competitive in strongman, simply because he hasn't trained for it not because he doesn't have the potential.
@@manuelnaim9206olympic lifting is more difficult? Okay, why not a aingle olympic lifter did 500 kg deadlift? Oh wait, because they all too weak. Don’t compare an F1 formula car vs. A ferrari road car. The difference is massive. Strongman are a different beast
@@deivytrajan ??? olympic weightlifting is more difficult because it requires skill, technique and efficiency to actually perform the lifts. Yes 500kg is difficult but not in the same way, it's difficult because it's heavy. Tell me what's easier to pick up? Would you be able to learn olympic weightlifting faster than strongman? I don't think so.... Strongman is relatively using primitive movements which we are meant to do.
Olympic lifting is a hyper specific set of skills, thats why 80% of the training is the same movements over and over again with varying intensities. Strongmen are multipurpose athletes. Comparing strongman to Oly lifting is like comparing MMA to boxing.
"I can pull the bar higher than lasha, i can deadlift more than lasha can clean pull, i can drive the bar higher than lasha". Yes mitch if that is the only thing that you focus on. But doing that with the technique, speed and ease that lasha does it with you absolutely couldn't. If lasha disregarded weightlifting technique he could squat, pull and press way more. But that wouldn't be productive for weightlifting.
You are a wolly. Mitchell obviously wasn't saying he could do what Lasha could. He was really clear on that. I don't know if this guy edited Mitchell's video into nonsense but maybe you should watch Mitchell's video and the title
Can confirm as a mildly strong dude (675deadlift, 510atg squat at 195bw), bar height and deadlift mean absolutely nothing in olympic lifting. I have enough bar height for a 140kg snatch and a 180kg clean. But i currently cant get under a 140kg clean nor a 100kg snatch.
Agree with your points although you underrated Koklyaev as a weightlifter. He's done a 210kg snatch and a 250kg C&J. In Mitchell's video, I suggested he should check out Mart Seim to see how statically strong weightlifters can be.
This reads as jealousy on the part of Hooper. Olympic weightlifting is technically much more challenging than any other strength sport and all of the powerlifters and strongmen know this. Lasha has a Lebron like notoriety world wide for his strength, and he did so in a sport thats technically much more difficult to master than the other strength sport.
Getting an Elite weightlifter to a high level in strongman would be challenging, but getting an elite strongman to a high level in weightlifting would be impossible.
You forgot to mention that the first ever World’s Strongest Man was an elite weightlifter beforehand. Bruce Wilhelm was a thrower turned weightlifter turned WSM. Mark Henry was also a great example of a crossover athlete.
Most strongmen comes from other sports.. Thats mainly because it's not a huge sport (yet).. and the don't have these kid-farms for weeding out athletes at the age of 10...
I think Mitch is one of the most intelligent strongmen ever and has incredble fitness for a sport infamous for pushing human bodies into dangerous territories. But I honestly don't know why he picked a battle like this one where the *entire* *premise* of the argument is based on a hypothetical that will (sadly) never happen. And tbh I find it strange that Mitch would think that Lasha couldn't be great overhead when *Mitch* *himself* uses a jerk style for several overhead events in strongman that, compared to Eddie Hall or Žydrūnas Savickas, is extremely technical. If that is part of his strongman repertoire, then why would Lasha not be able to transfer his technique over?? Just my two cents, I think the two sports are so closely related that they practically beg for dual athletes like Koklyaev, or folks who give both a try at different times like Mart Seim. When I train at the gym, I will often put clean & jerks on the same day as the tire or the circus bell because they just go together.
My jaw dropped when he brought up front squats for stones..... Like my man, even if i be generous and give you all your other points, the stone argument was literally the dumbest thing ive heard him spout, the stones are closest to carry over apart from log press to Oly lifting.. yikes!
Hard to say if Lasha would be a great strongman or not (also depends on how you define great). He has trained unidirectionally for the Olympic lifts almost two decades, which is a very defined set of skills. Strongman does have a lot of variety in events and not every athlete adapts to unfamiliar events quickly.
I don't think Mitchell said he couldn't BECOME a strong man, if he trained for it. The discussion was whether he IS the strongest man in the world. I don't think you are being honest in this video at all. You know very well what Hooper said.
Mitch calling Lasha's squat unimpressive is the funniest part of the video. Lasha squatted 335x2 with a weightlifting belt and useless wraps, probably near the end of a session, and he did it with reserve speed and great control. Mitch has a video squatting 350x3 low bar, wearing wraps and a PL belt, and it looks like an earthquake is going on. Lasha is 100% a stronger squatter than Mitch is.
I'm nowhere near any of these guys' strength, but my DL went up 130 lb after not training it for 2 years and instead focusing on cleans. It's shocking how much olympic lifting and speed+force+skill translates into other strength sports. And your thesis @19:50 about 2 different conversations is everything: of course a transplanted athlete won't perform well immediately, but a great athlete will adapt and do well with time.
I don't think the conversation was could lasha be good if he dedicated his entire life I took it as if he showed up to the next wsm or smoe would he place you guys are talking about different hypotheticals
@ that "long enough" would have to be as long as his weightlifting career. He's a phenomenal weightlifter but it doesn't mean much in strongman. You can masturbate the thought of Lasha kicking strongmens butts but it wouldn't happen.
Mitchell's and Zach's opinions are actually both rather nebulous. And Zach is guessing at the absolute strength potential of Lasha. Both could be correct or both could be wrong or somewhere in-between. One thing that was missing in this discussion with the focus on Lasha, is the 21 year olymic weighlifter Mitchell mentioned and what his potential is if he changed over to strongman. It's more likely he could be very successful. The reality is that Lasha at 31 may not be able develop the musculature of an elite strongman to be at the very top level (podiuming at the top meets). By the time he does, he'd be in his mid 30s and, not too many elite strongmen are that old (ask Brian Shaw how competing at WSM against much younger strongman worked out the past few years). Zach also does a disservice to all the top young strongmen out there who are really exceptional and have been doing strongman for years and have been developing their strength since their early teens or earlier. I'm also of the belief that strongmen aren't defacto the strongest people on earth. That's good marketing on the sports part.
He's too busy focused on glazing Lasha and weightlifting so hard to be objective and reasonable. And yes, strongman now isn't about pure displays of strength because it's become too standardized in attempts to make it more commercially appealing and viable. Not sure what sport(singular) would contain the strongest people on earth at this point, especially compared to strongman's aim.
Another point that sort of adds to what Zack is saying: There are tons of very successful strongmen who prior to strongman had never been at the top level of any strength or athletic endeavor. A lot of them were guys who couldn't even make it into a top tier college program for their respective sports and then basically took up strongman as an adult hobby. If you think that the bulk of strongman competitors are actually the top tier of human genetics for strength sports you're just kidding yourself. No one who's about to go in the first round of the NFL draft says "nah nevermind I'm going to drop out and go be a strong man". Most strong men are strong men because they didn't make it in other sports. But you don't think the Olympian with the greatest total of all time in one of the longest running Olympic events is going to be able to figure out strong man? Lol ok. So what about Brian Shaw? He was once a 230lb kid only good enough to play basketball at Black Hills State college. You think anyone was saying "that guy can clearly be the strongest in the world?". Also people need to really comprehend what it would mean for Lasha to be able to go on a FULL UNTESTED BLAST. Lasha currently has to cycle while dodging Olympic testing. You give the man with the biggest clean and jerk all time the full bore untested horse cock stack and he's going to annihilate everyone.
Log is different beast. Klokov had hard time log pressing. Toroktiy couldnt press strongman dumbell. Koklyaev has done all 3 big sports. He isnt your catch-all scenario of going from one sport to another. Koklyaev is an amazing athlete that earned a lot in strength sports and it should be treat a lot higher than 'this happens if you switch'.
Mitch Hooper saying that lasha would not be successful at strongman is like the fastest wide receiver saying that Usain bolt would not be successful as a wide receiver which has some level of Truth to it because running in a straight line is different from running in a zigzag and catching a ball. But if you gave Usain bolt the technical skills of an NFL wide receiver, he would 100% be the best wide receiver of all time. If you gave lasha the training needed to be a strong man, He has the potential to be the greatest strong man of all time. I don't think it's that complicated
It's almost as if training specificity has to do with the specifics of the sport one trains... Also, strongman is technically not as demanding as Oly weightlifting. If Lasha could learn Oly weightlifting at a super elite, Olympic competitive level, he wouldn't have issues with the demands of strongman. His strength foundation is already solid, too. And he's a big guy with a big gut, perfect for strongman
Any Division I sprinter would be able to adapt to field sports pretty fast. Noah Lyles dominated 60 m during Winter season last year. It's not that much of work for them to train for football -- in terms of sprinting. Obviously there exists so many more factors here that make the transition difficult, but it's not sprinting.
Lasha being as strong as he is; not to mention that man moves like someone a quarter his size. His athleticism is freaking wild let him learn the movements and he'd probably be a strong competitor in any strength based sport.
Your whole argument seems to be that Lasha has proven to be extremely genetically gifted for Olympic lifting so he would be at strongman too and that just doesn't necessarily follow. You don't know what your potential in a sport is until you realise it and all sports are different. How's his grip? How's his cardio? How's his pain tolerance? How's his muscular endurance? How fast can he move with weight? How quickly can he learn the technique for 10-20 different events? (This one in particular is Mitch's specialty.) How quickly can he learn a totally different style of training? How's his resilience to injury? (Absolutely key for top strongmen.) Too many questions, there's no way you can say whether he'd be a t the top or not after 2 years of training. All you can say is that if he entered the ASC (next big comp) he'd win one events and be near the bottom for all the rest because he isn't ready for it, as no-one is for a comp without prep.
Took way too long a scroll to find a well thought out comment like this. It was pretty clear that's what Mitch was arguing while Zach was too busy being offended that his hero wasn't being properly glazed for things he's shown 0 capacity and capabilities for.
Being very explosive is NOT the same thing as being very strong, regardless of the massive overlap between the two. Totally different genetic biases. I agree more with Mitch on this one
@ absolutely he is, but we’re talking about two radically different sports, and strongman has its own element of technique mastery to it. I think Lasha would do great in lower level strongman or Highland Games comps, but I don’t think he’d be competitive at the highest level of professional strongman anymore than I think Mitchell Hooper would be competitive in Olympic level weightlifting
@@BUFFALO_cougar_slayerdude there isnt technical mastery in the strongman lifts anywhere near the level of weightlifting that doesnt even come into discussion when arguing about the topic they train for like 8-9 events for a much shorter period . Weightlifters train two lifts there whole lives my arguement has always been the same . Weightlifters are the most powerful ,powerlifters are the strongest and strongmen are the most well rounded . Many men have been wsm but nobody has ever done what lasha has
I completely agree with you but from what I've seen from Hooper's series "could x be good at strongman" he simply puts the person in a strongman comp as they are this instant
@zacktelander where's your reading comprehension? 505kg is "almost" double 300kg, I didn't say "actually double" Several have done reps with over 1,000 lbs. There's a ton of folks that have squatted well over 1,000 lbs as well. This is reality, what could he do right now if he started training for SM, not alternate universe idealized dream Lasha
@@harrison3910 sure, sure, valid points. What's his peaked 1rm on dead you'd wager? 360kg? That's a light beginning to an ascending deadlift ladder of 5 for pros. Arguing about if Lasha trained from birth for SM is just role-playing, but realistically, he's not easily adding 100kg+ on his peaked 1rm in any short time frame, or ever.
@@patrickmurphy8008 for the sake of hypotheticals and simplicity. It's often said that your snatch pr is about half your deadlift pr. Lasha also has long ass arms, so he'd probably be very good at deadlifts. 225x2, so I'd say 450 I'd give that a 10kg range downward. Obviously, it's hard to achieve that without CNS training. So I'd say during his peak, he'd hit that in 3-6 months of deadlift training
Mitchel pooper is a self serving, egotistical goof ball competing at a time with little competition. Shaw retired.Zvikas retired. Loz retired. And Strongman has changed to a sport suited to lighter, smaller athletes like Mitch. Lasha is truly a strongman. Accomplished way more than Pooper. Mitch needs to be quiet. Guilia Imperio is stronger than Mitch. Olivia Reeves is stronger than Mitch
I think training weightlifting is a way different beast than strongman. To train years and years to incrementally increase two lifts is way more mentally and physically taxing than moving a lot of weight around in different ways. I've always admired the discipline and will power of weightlifters, bodybuilders, and wrestlers. When you mix strength and technique, it's a different game.
Don't forget Lu winning the Olympics at age 37 as well and if he hadn't retired between Tokyo and Paris, he very well could have won the 73 kg category, assuming Shi was in the same condition in this alternate timeline as he was last year.
10:50 I was with you up until this point. Because that’s the same argument that Mitchell is using just in reverse. You really don’t think Eddie hall or Thor or any of the other greats couldn’t clean and jerk 267 if they had focused their whole life on it? I think at that point it’s just Lasha fanboying
They definitely couldn't have lmaoo. Weightlifting is a speed strength sport, not a strength sport, none of these athletes ever showed explosiveness ever, and also we have seen a strongman transition into Weightlifting, mark henry. Who couldnt outlift 85kg weightlifters despite being 180-190 kgs that how much mark henry got outclassed
@ I don’t think that’s a fair example. Mark Henry didn’t train his whole life for weightlifting. He transitioned, as you said later in life. My point was if one of those guys (heck you could even say mark Henry) trained their whole life for it. Explosiveness is something you can develop if trained from a young age. Yea I agree there isnt a chance in hell that any of the strongmen could be the greatest weightlifter of all time if they just decided to pick it up later in life. They would need to have started from childhood. But you could also say the same about lasha. No way is he deadlifting 1100 lbs unless he has specifically trained his whole life for that. But he’s not doing it if he just decides he’s a strongman now
@@ix_9_ix also, Eddie continental cleaned 216 and then strict pressed it. That’s not even a strongman main event. You really don’t think if he hadn’t trained his ENTIRE life for a regular clean and jerk he couldn’t do 267?
@shades4313 that doesnt matter, again weightlifting is NOT a pure strength sport, it is a speed AND strength sport, both are equally important. There are weightlifters who have had higher strength numbers coming to competition than lasha and are not even close to him in terms of the clean and jerk, for reference the clean and jerk is very correlated to ones strength. Its not to say strength doesn't matter in weightlifting, it obviously does, but strength without speed doesn't translate to even the clean snd jerk. Lasha never squated more than 330 and yet clean and jerked 270, there are active weightlifters who have squated 400 and dont compare. Speed is also limited by your genetics, just like strength. We can teach an athlete to be somewhat fast, but fast enough to be an all time great weightlifter? No
Funny story about the log, I remember an amateur 67kg lifter training at our gym while strongmen were also training. He was so fascinated by the log that he asked if they could teach him. He ended up jerking 110/120kg (I forgot how much the log weighed it was the wooden type; I just remember a red and green plate) once he got the hang of it.
20:52 Zach is so triggered, and rightly so. The logic behind the argument of bringing up front squat… There is no point in responding because there is no logic there.
Log press is an entirely different animal and being the best in the world at clean and jerk doesn't mean as much as weightlifters seem to think. Obviously it helps but nearly as much as you guys make it out to be.
@@zacktelander Log press isn't even close to the same thing as a barbell. Anyone who has actually lifted a log will know that. Being the best in the world at clean and jerk certainly helps but not nearly as much as common weightlifters make it out to be.
As someone who used to think like you towards powerlifters transitioning to strongman: you (and past me) are wrong And I didn’t understand it until I started competing in strongman The difference in implements makes a HUGE difference. The comment about front squaring a 200kg stone for instance- that’s NOT like a front squat or zercher with a barbell. It’s more like a static row with the weight while having the center of mass farther in front of you completely changes the mechanics AND how heavy it feels. On top of the insane difficulty, in the literal sense of every single thing you do. Not just a technical curve like learning a new movement. There a problem solving component to it that you don’t understand until you’re trying to shoulder 2x bodyweight with a sandbag. Including the recovery demands and systemic fatigue issues you have to learn to work around Powerlifters and weightlifters DO have an advantage coming into it, an equal advantage, but the best at either sport is going to at most get their pro card then come mid pack at a pro event
13:30 I really don't like Zack's thinking here. "The most skillful with a barbell" isn't a thing, he's the most skilled at the two oly lifts and you can't just pretend like skills transfer over just because there is a barbell involved, would you also argue he could become the best strict OHPer of all time just because you OHP using a barbell? Bench is a highly technical movement (not comparable to oly lifts, but it's technical at the highest level, which is in lower weightclasses in powerlifting) and acting like he could master the technique because he's good at oly lifting is basically fortune telling. 13:45 again, due to the way olympic weightlifters are picked and by looking at his career there's basically no proof that he'd respond well to the dose of drugs strongmen need and that he'd perform well at the bodyweight needed for all of this. Acting as if a person with a 180x5 bench can get to roided elite level just because they have genetics for something else is not only irrational, it's counterintuitive statistically speaking
@@zacktelander if you kept reading you'd see the "(not comparable to oly lifts)", which makes it a full true statement. Acting as if it's the same as a dumbbell curl and lasha could just go and outbench an SHW powerlifter "because da mindset" is ignorant
@@jonnyoneplate compared to oly lifting, not at all. Compared to most gym exercises (pull ups, curls, atg all quad squats) it's highly technical
6 дней назад
As a lifelong strongman fan, and as someone who "hated" seeing strongmen getting @ s kicked by weightlifters (as I root for the strongman camp), weightlifters have always been dominant in strongman. Most notable cases: Misha Kokyliaev and Raimonds Bergmanis. Both went on to become top tier in their generations, with podium performances all the time, obliterating the competition in most deadlift and squat events, and shoulder events (albeit they "cheated" using split movements, while the rest strict pressed or push pressed). If Lasha really wanted, he would become WSM or at least, at the very least, top 5 in the world. The fast twitch fibers are there, the deadlift, the squat, the shoulder, back and core strength, the mental part and discipline, the endurance for pain, he has got it all. Mitchell is just jealous he needs a truckload of pancakes and some cheating here and there to get his WSM status.
You made me turn on my PC just to comment, you're being overly defensive and relying purely on religion-level hypothetical arguments. It's clear as day you're coping because you like the sport and want to defend it. But let's face it, it's silly to assume that a guy who's strong in a handful of movements which he's been doing all his life since he was a kid would be able to perform just as well on Strongmen movements (which are so many and so varied). And Mitch is right, the guy who lifts the heaviest weights isn't necessarily the strongest, for instance, the strongest man to have ever lived: Big Z, has broken a lot of records but he's not the strongest on a wide array of movements, he's just the most consistently strong overall.
I thought Mitchell was talking about whether someone like Lasha could win in strongman quickly, doesn't he say "in a few weeks or months" or something like that?
@@zacktelander Anything but an analysis of documented feats as they relate to the sport would just be pure speculation. If you watch Hooper's videos speculating about Joe Kovacs, Colton Engelbrecht, or Tom Haviland entering WSM he always bases his opinion on their documented lifts to answer the question of "Are they the strongest in the world?" rather than "Could they maybe one day become the world's strongest man?" I doubt Mitch would deny that if peak Lasha went on a strongman cycle and trained like a strongman for a few years, he *probably* would have absolutely killed it, but it's impossible to know for sure. You can't just say "well, obviously he would have dominated" because someone who excels at certain movement patterns might not be as naturally gifted at others. I do think it's pretty reductive of him to dismiss top weightlifters as "not that strong" due to the technique involved. Mitch is also "not that strong" at things he doesn't train for. His bench is pretty (relatively) weak by his own admission in the video, but that doesn't make him "not that strong" compared to powerlifters. He just doesn't bench that often. Strongman isn't the only way to gauge someone's strength and it's pretty arrogant of him to think that it is.
Love that you took this one. The point about the small strength-to-oly lifts gap is such a good point that is going to be lost on so many people, obviously including Hooper here. Weightlifters don't "train" a 1rm squat or deadlift like powerlifters or strongmen! Hooper just doesn't get that
If a 6’3 marathon runner can completely dominate the sport after a few years of strongman training I think it’s safe to say lasha would do pretty damn well
Mitch is blind to other people being able to come into Strongman and win despite the very fact that iswhat he did. I cannot listen to him any more its just boring seeing him always conclude that he is the best
Mark Henry, former Olympic weight lifter, trained for three months and won the first Arnold Classic…..against the top strongmen of that era. You can argue the Mark was statically stronger than Lasha but he wasn’t nearly as explosive. This whole discussion is amusing because Hooper isn’t close to being the strongest in the sport of strongman….he’s the most efficient, explosive and intelligent. All things you can assume Lasha would also excel at.
Two different arguments being made here, disguised as disagreement. The easily misinterpreted (maybe intentional) hot takes create clicks and impressions so I get it. A devoted fan base can easily be triggered, on both sides over hypotheticals... Both videos can be right without discounting the other.
Several things to say. First, I like your music and have subscribed to you on Spotify. But I'm glad you're back to doing some Olympic weightlifting videos. Second, I find it hilarious that Rippetoe says all you need to be good at Olympic weightlifting is strength and technique doesn't matter, and Hooper says it's all technique and Olympic weightlifters aren't that strong. The bench press thing. I wonder how much Lasha actually trains the bench press? I remember one time I really focused on Olympic lifting and my only upper body pushing exercise was the push press. After a few months I benched just for fun and my bench press had increased with no actual bench training. Was it a great bench? No. Would I have benched more if I dedicated more time to benching? Of course. But the fact that my bench improved just from push presses says a lot. The log. I bought a log because they are fun as hell and I think make a great cross-training tool. The bulkiness is what makes them fun. But the level of bulkiness is, I think, related to the lifter's size. I'm 5'8" and for me, standard 12 inch diameter log is a bear. For Lasha at 6'6", less so. Also, a log can be lifted overhead in any way. There is no press out rule. I've even seen one competitor split jerk a log. You think Lasha may have an advantage if he were to split jerk a log? Hooper is right that cleaning a log is very different, but there are skills from Olympic weightlifting that would transfer. Once you get the log on your log, you then need to roll the log up the front of your body. But like a clean with a bar, the power comes from our legs. Drive hard and explosively with the legs and rolling the log come becomes easier. You think Lasha knows something about driving hard and explosively with the legs? Let Lasha get comfortable with the log and he would absolutely dominate this event.
Thank god you put this out. Some absolutely absurd claims made in the original video, especially given the 'sport science' way many of the arguments are framed (despite being very logically flawed)
Respectfully, both of you are making the "I think..." argument. You keep saying "I think Lasha would be so good at the deadlift." but you dont know. Mitch keeps saying "I dont think Lasha could do this." but he doesnt know. The original question was could Lasha do it in a month to a year. And especially when it comes to unusual movements LIKE a yoke or atlas stones, could he be top ten? Against people like Mitch, Trey, Tom, Thor and Evan? In a year... I doubt it. But I don't know.
No. Mariusz Pudzianowski won WSM 5 times. The strongest man ever, Žydrūnas Savickas, didn't break the deadlift world record nor is he the best bench presser. But he is, without question, the strongest man ever in recorded history.
if a test of strength exists long enough, it's no longer a test of strength. The same way school test aren't tests of knowledge, they're a test of whether you can pass the test
If the argument is "he wont do very well as he is" then yes fair enough If the argument is "he doesn't have the potential to be a great strongman" Then no WTF he literally has the body type of the modern strongman and hes objectively strong AF
This is just stupid argument from all Greg, Mitch and Zack. They all have arguments defending their own side but because its all hypothetical it doesent mean anything. Like overhead argument is all so stupid because we have no idea what would happen. Yea Lasha is stronger (not that much) then Koklayev in snatch 225kg vs 210kg and CJ 267kg vs 250kg. But these numbers dont mean anything when we are talking about log and it is totally different thing. Maybe could be great at log maybe not and we will never know because Lasha will never touch log or any strongman specific equipment.
@@ix_9_ix Yes in weightlifting the difference is significant but in its still only 7% so I personally dont think that it would really matter if he would go do strongman.
@aGuUU27 no you don't realize how significant it is, the world record set by khrastov in the gold age of weightlifting in the 80s was 216 in the snatch, that was not even touched until 2016 onwards. Again this isnt powerlifting or strongman were records are constantly broken by whoever
Great vid Zack, this was pretty convincing especially given that I had already watched Hooper's video before this and thought he was mostly right. You changed my mind. Just a counter to the point of recruiting children: these selection processes are focusing on much more than just strength, but largely anthropometry, explosiveness (power not strength), etc that make for a good weightlifter. Factors that are not required to make a good strongman. This process could dismiss an absolute behemoth because they aren't the right shape or size
Lasha is on drugs already not possible to be the greatest of all time against doped up competitors but in strongman he wouldnt be limited to certain compounds and could take much more
This is so context based that it's a weird conversation to have. But if the C&J translates so well into apollon's axle and log, why haven't weight lifters come and taken the records? Should be easy money as they've "trained their entire lives" and many Strongmen don't start doing apollon's axle and log lift before they're in their 20's.
The fact that Lasha has become as strong as he is while fine tuning his ability to execute the skills in weightlifting that are required to move these weight in multi step lifts alone proves that if you took the skill training out of it, he would for a fact have the strongest deadlift in the world in a very short period of time.
13:36 hard disagree, bench is a very technical movement. Yeah Olympic weightlifting is way more technical, but bench is still a very technical exercise.
He doesn't agree but he's also a far cry from an elite bencher, it's hard to know nuance when you just lay on your back and push (and your numbers reflect it) He doesn't care about SBD
Even Klokov said that. Bench is easier to start and give more margin for error for some time but once people get to elite level it's much more nuanced than it looks.
Yes saying it’s not very technical compared to other lifts. Most strongman movements are way more technical. Log, axle, sandbag to shoulder, stones, etc
i also think that Mitchell should really mention if his point is whether Lasha entered a strongman comp NOW or if he began training for strongman 15 years ago. also his video just completely proved how unaware mitch is of how weightling works as a sport.
I think its an extremely silly notion to just assume that even if he had the time to train that he would just be able to do it all. Top tier strong man have the time and dedication to train all the nuances of the sport and come up short in specific events all the time. Funny enough Hooper is the only one to ever put it all together, so when you make the "nobody but Lasha has ever done that" argument that goes both ways. Nobody but the guy that is telling you Lasha couldnt do it has ever done that. Sure if you assume that he can just magically be elite at all events at the same time, respond to roids like the strong man elite, sustain the training of a strongman which puts a completely different strain on your body than an olympic weightlifter etc than yeah he could probably keep up with the very best. But thats like saying if Lasha was Lebron James he would be an all time great in the NBA. Yeah no shit.
It stands to reason though that a great in a strength sport has all the fundamental attributes to be great in any strength sport. Same way Mark Henry was a great weightlifter, then became a great powerlifter, then for the time a great strongman too. Not to mention weightlifters have incredible explosion off the floor and better mobility than anyone in strongman
@@radthibideaux9978 I dont think its reasonable to just assume that. Strongman isnt just about strenght, its also about muscular endurance, anaerobic capacity and a different type of mobility than you need in olympic weightlifting. You also put a different strain on your body than in weight lifting. Who knows if his body can hold up? Strongman get injured all the time. Its stupid to just assume he has all of that. Would he be an elite strongman if we assumed he has all of that? Sure, but the 20th best olympic lifter would be an elite strongman if we just assumed he had all of that. The 100th best strongman would be an elite strongman if we just assumed he had all of that.
Mitchell hooper was a mediocre marathon runner that transitioned into strongman and did incredibly well. A lot of strongmen are people that transitioned to strongman late after failing in another sport. It's a very young niche sport that is just starting to get a lot of traction. This is also why we are constantly seeing insane improvements in the sport of strongman and will so in the future when the next generation of kids who were trained from birth to be strongmen start competing. There is no reason to believe Lasha, someone who exceeds generational talent in a much older more popular sport that also closely resembles strongman in a lot of ways wouldn't be able to do well in strongman if he trained for it.
As far as squat strength, former SHW powerlifter Shane Hamman (squat 455) when he switched to weightlifting put up 195 + 225. Which is a good result, but at least a level below the top. Alexeyev, for example, said in an interview that he never did squats with more than 270kg because he didn't have to and he had an C&J 256kg.
It seems like part of the confusion is that lifters don’t understand that people who came up in Olympic Weightlifting as kids or from another country don’t really see it as "lifting". To us, gym bros, all of those things are related, CrossFit, benching, getting a pump, lifting heavy stuff in the woods with your buddies, armwrestling, wtv. For a lot of weightlifters who came up in the sport in other countries they see it more like a regular sport. When they do other lifts it’s either purely for fun or the whole purpose and execution is meant to carry over to their comp lifts. They likely never exist in the middle where lifters want to dabble in everything just to show they are "generally strong" at every lifting related thing.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Mitch is acting like he didn't achieve his dominance in strongman in an incredibly short time. He's always talking about how his first competitions he did were without any experience in specific events...so...Lasha with a few months to prepare wouldn't absolutely be able to do something similar? Be reasonable.
No one considered Hooper a decent deadlifter until he got the 505 to his knees, so he should know not to underestimate anyone.
The carryover from cleans to a lot of strongman movements is stupidly good I imagine.
That’s false , Mitch has been a top deadlifter before 505.
he had a 475kg deadlift before
I don't think Mitch said dude can't be a strongman competitor with some training, just that dude's current training doesn't carry over to being a competitive strongman.
"No one considered Hooper a decent deadlifter until he got 505 to his knees"
That is the most absurd statement I've ever heard in my life. Hooper has been an amazing deadlifter for a long time, he did 475 kg all the way back in 2021.
I thought the same thing. Mitch rose to the top quickly.
50% tarriff until hooper takes it back.
51%*
short syrup
@@5milemacc737Vermont produces ample maple syrup and the quality is better than that french junk
Bwah!
😄
lmao
So I think your both right. Mitchell for saying he would not do good with minimal training for it and Zack for saying that if he blasted gear and trained specifically for it (maybe a year) then he would be near the top of the food chain.
It’s just a weird and unclear argument for Mitchell then. Like no one does anything without training for it.
*you're
Tbf your stipulation was that they trained for a couple months to a year
Thinking that top olympians are not using gear is just delusional...
The best comparison we have is when elite MMA fighters, who have a variety of combat skills and disciplines including boxing, sign up to fight a boxer who specializes in it. MMA fighters do change their training regimen specifically for this. But they are all getting wiped out by some youtube influencer
It is interesting that in Mitch's evidence, he uses skill and efficiency of movement as a detracting argument(or at the least, a method of downplaying raw strength) when, in order to compete and even win against some of the most freakishly large competitors in strongman, Mitch himself must use skill and efficiency of movement. It's almost as if skill matters in any discipline.
What on earth. Olympic lifting uses POWER. It uses speed and getting under the bar. You can't just say one sport uses technique and the other spotr uses technique so same thing.
Yes, that is exactly what Mitch is saying.
@@boliusabol822 Strength and power are related. If you don't have the strength to do a thing, I'd imagine it would be difficult to exhibit power at that same (or highly related) thing. I agree that you can't just say that one skill and another skill are the same thing. That's why I didn't. What I said is that skill is an essential part of excellence in a thing. This is especially true at the highest levels. If Mitch had just said "of course not, for the same reason why I would not be competitive as a weightlifter given the same inadequate amount of prep" there'd be no controversy. Perhaps that is the point?
@@seanwhitehall4652 But then why compare his bench with, instead of his own, to one of the single greatest static strength pressers of all time? If this is exactly what Mitch was saying, then he should offer up his own, because he says it's not that great by strongman standards, yet he is a dominant competitor.
I don't think you're following. He isn't saying skill is bad. He is saying that to transition between the sports you need to build whole new skills.
And when weightlifting has such a narrow range of movements to specialise in and WSM has a very very broad range of movements it's not going to be easy to make that jump.
Hooper saying that about a weightlifter's CLEAN DEADLIFT (a weightlifting accessory exercise) is a joke.
that's another thing, I was like does he not see the difference between a strongman deadlift (grinding and hitching allowed, 8 figure straps allowed) and basically a powerlifting deadlift with a shrug at the end
@@genericnickname1 Still any top strongmen can deadlift what a weightlifter clean deadlifts without straps or grinding etc. For most people what weight lifters clean pull would be a good powerlifters training weight not even the best of the best, just a good powerlifter
@@gaia8840 is your argument that a top strongman can do an easier lift with the same weight? It's true, but it's a really bad argument. And Hooper didn't even acknowledge it in any way, he also called it a deadlift (in his mind, deadlift is the hitching suited 8 figure strapped exercise because that's what he does)
@ No. I am saying that they only use all of that because they lift way more than weightlifter. They all can clean pull more than weightlifters do with no straps, no grind etc. We are talking about same deadlift, same equipement, Powerlifters and strongmen can lift more than weightlifter
@@gaia8840 so? It's not a fair comparison no matter how you look at it. Submaximal adjacent lifts aren't a good way of estimating a 1RM
Mitchell Hooper is arguing why he culd not compete in strongman with just a short amount of training.
you are arguing that he culd if he trained for it for a long time.
And try y he himself defies that point by saying that he didn't have much specific training before getting into strongman. He really showed up out of nowhere.
@@-TK- he did lift for years, and did powerlifting comps. Every talented strongman bursts onto the scene pretty quickly because it isn’t a sport with a deep talent pool
That's stupid. He made a video on why a shotputter could do it with a short amount of training and said he'd be the strongest in the world. Mitch makes no sense
u guys are just arguing different things. mitch thinks lasha doesn’t have the tools at hand to be a top WSM competitor, not that he doesn’t have the amazing genetics that could get there through continuous hard work. He’s talking about the present and you’re talking about potential. there’s no disagreement.
Lasha hariline MOGs Hooper, clearly he's the hypothetical winner here.
And Koklayev wasn't just any lower level strongman - he placed 3rd at worlds strongest man
He went head to head with Big Z in that comp.....all the while being criticized for using a spilt jerk technique to dominate in the OH log press. To name another who set the American record in the OH log press was Rob Kearney using the same split jerk technique.
If that is not illustrative of carry-over I don't know what is. Hooper seems to be overestimating the concept of strength specificity. On the surface the difference between the log and the bar are grip and bicep strength. The fundamental compound movements of deadlift and front squat are already present for Lasha in sufficient explosive strength.
@@Kneechinfar someone with a powerful jerk will shit all over someone with a powerful strict press.
The efficiency of jerks take overhead events to the next level. That is how I won my one and only strongman competition (amateur event). By having a 160kg behind the back jerk. The carryover was very noticeable.
Mitchell's argument is so hypocritical when you realise he used to be a marathon runner and shortly went on to be the worlds strongest man with a few years of training 😂
Right. Also the point about Mitch being stronger at the jerk, even though his jerk is significantly less than lasha’s is a bit hypocritical too.
Right! And another little-known fact: Lasha was a gymnast who excelled at the pommel horse before switching to weightlifting. :)
Or how other strongmen have made their way to the top from other non-strength sports within just a few years….Thor and Shaw from basketball for example
That’s not true though. Hooper has been strength training for over a decade. The whole marathon jig was like a 2 year side project, where he still continued to lift heavy. He then figured, that he’s way better at lifting heavy than running and stuck to the heavy lifting. The he did some powerlifting, upped every single one of his lifts by like 80% by with strength programming, befriended WSF, got a WSM invite and eventually rose to the peak of the sport.
How is it hypocritical hes not saying that these guys DONT have potential, he is just saying that you cant use powerlifting success etc... As an indicator of success for strongman. His background is completely irrelevant.
This is a total strawman.
Gregg said do you think that lasha could be a TOP TEN strong man with 1 months training.....
He did not say could he make a top strongman with the correct training, getting used to new techniques etc etc.
Given a couple of years im pretty sure he could. But in 1 month, not a chance.
Mitchell straight up claimed that Lasha 'isn't that strong.' Stop swooping to Hooper's defense. He's wrong and he's a prick about it too.
Greg asked if with a month to a year, that's a big gap of time. Don't forget the whole question. You're actually strawmanning here.
@ Greggs words “if this guy trained for like a month”
Later in the clip he changes his initial statement to month, year. So effectively we are both right. Still if you go with what gregg says at the start Mitchell is correct.
@@MoobloonGale personal insults aside, since Mitchell has experience in both power lifting and strongman, he is in a better position than most to say. I’d love to see Lasha in strongman to see how it goes.
Could Lasha train six months, enter a strongman competition, and be mediocre? I think so. Could a strongman champion train six months, enter a weightlifting competition, and be mediocre? No way. The demands on mobility and technique are far too great for him to be anything but dead last. He couldn't even do a semi-decent snatch at, say, 150 kg.
He could easily power snatch more than 150kg, that requires minimal technique and is 100% valid in comp...
@@jeanpaulkassdale I doubt that. Show me anyone at all who after a mere six months of training, with no prior snatch-specific mobility work, can snatch 150 kg. I say it's impossible. I mean, have you tried? Even a light overhead squat is beyond the capability of many extremely strong people. I asked a lifter friend of mine to do an OH squat with an empty 20 kg bar. He tried, dropped the bar, and said, laughing, "nope, this is not a thing."
@ Bro a power snatch doesnt require any mobility and the technique requirements are easily reachable in 6 months. Mitch might even be strong enough to muscle snatch 150 off the bat.
@@jeanpaulkassdale A valid lift, good lockout, no pressout? I doubt it. Do you have a video that proves me wrong?
That’s not really the argument tho. Yet one of the best strongmen in history was basically an Olympic lifter who kinda wandered into a strongman competition and his base skill set, talent and strength was enough for him to mog the competition
Mikhail Koklyaev, Olympic weightlifter, Strong man and Power Lifter. One of the strongest athletes of all Time. Enough to be said. There is no argument that Lasha couldnt do it as well. It would go against all Logic. The Transition from Olympic Weightlifting to other strength sports is tremendous.
First that is not the argument, we talking if he went straight to it with no training for it, and mikhail never won the major championships in any of the sports you talk about
Mikhail could clean jerk 550lb but wasn’t the strongest presser, he was great but never the best
He never won any of the major shows
@@gaia8840 To be fair, he did get really close. 3rd at WSM, two 2nds at IFSA (losing one by only 1.5 points), and a 3rd and a 2nd at the Arnold (losing one by only 1 point). He never won major weightlifting or powerlifting titles but he has the second highest super total of all time. Title's are a reflection of individual competitions, not the strength of a person.
@marcuschristianson493 I'm not saying the opposite. I am just saying if he was truly exceptionnal in both he would have won at least once in either. He was good. But not in the top. He never was the guy you would bet on the win
Hooper criticising Lashas high bar, ass to grass squat when his own squat at SMOE didn't even get to parallel is the height of hubris.
Thats a really poor comparison, and you know it; there's no need to be disingenuous here.
Hooper did it first, fair is fair
@@landlocked_lifts332 hooper was the one making the comparison and claiming that lasha couldn't squat enough to be a strongman... ignoring the fact that he'd be squatting way heavier if he was squatting like hooper did.
@@landlocked_lifts332no its not till you have tried both you dont understand the difference in difficulty . Before i did weightlifting style squats i squatted like strongmen and squatted my current max in about 3 months 2 years later i achieved that same number except highbar ass to grass . Most people i know are like this too
I don't like how we are not taking the video that greg made in to context.
Zacks argument is, if Lasha in his prime, took considerable time and invested in to strongman, could he be great at it? maybe, but very likely yes, I agree.
Hoopers argument is, if any top tier competitor from olympic weightlifting came now, and in gregs words, put a month in to training strongman, could he win? absolutely not.
The second Mitchell posted that video I knew this was coming🤣🤣🤣.
This is gonna be great
What is the title of video?
Lol FACTS
This video is pretty trash, there is zero facts just emotional fan boy arguing hypotheticals that never happened
Clean pulls are harder than deadlifts at the same weight. Does he not know that?
He’s giving “I could do that” while walking through an art museum vibes
Picking his clean DL as an absolute measure of his strength is weak AF. The clean DL is only ever done to 10 % more than the clean
compare C+J of people who have known deadlifts and known C+J then scale to Lasha's, i.e. the Chinese. Tell me if you come up with a number north of 360 kg.
THE FACT HE DOESN’T CITE MARK HENRY WHO WAS A TWO TIME POINT OLYMPIAN AND WON THE 2002 ARNOLD IS AHHHHHHH
How does mark henry,one of the strongest men in history, stack against the current line of strongman field? Any current strong man records? Nope. Who was the only man to challenge his powerlifting totals? Yep Thor 😂 yep great example of how an Olympic lifter could not compete with todays athletes.
2002 is a long time ago, lifts have progressed since then enormously. Henry lifts are maybe not top 10 in 2025.
22:10 How is not clear that was the whole perogative of Mitchell's video? The question at the beginning was literally "with a (as in 1) *month* of training, wouldn't they crush a strongman comp?"
Isn't it obvious that there is absolutely no point in talking about any of this when training duration is arbitrary?
Actually at the beginning of the videos Greg asked if with a few months to a year of training for strongman could lasha be a high level strongman.
Mitchel never laid out the assumptions on timeframe in his video. In Greg's video that he was replying to, Greg said "in a month, a year, whatever".
Mark Henry ia knocking, wanting to enter the chat 😏😏
I was waiting for someone to mention him!!
Mark henry was an Olympic gold medalist but also world class power lifter. 900+sq 900+ deadlift. Great that Mitch vid is blowing up but in think Mitch was more or less saying lasha wouldn't be the top now. Give him a yr and yeah he might
@@Freshprankstv1 he was not a Olympic gold medalist
@ my bad. three-time U.S. National Weightlifting Champion (1993, 1994, 1996),[11] an American Open winner (1992),[14] a two-time U.S. Olympic Festival Champion (1993 and 1994)[1] and a NACAC champion (1996).[4] He held all three Senior US American weightlifting records in 1993-1997.[22]
Strong is strong, fellas. He was able to succeed in many arenas and wasn't brought up by either channel lmao
Never seen a strongman compete in olympic lifting but there have been olympic lifters competing in strongman
Pin this comment
That's because Olympic lifting requires you to practice the same movement for decades to be competitive at a world level. Strongman is more of a brute force sport.
For me, Olympic lifting is more difficult. I understand what Mitchel is trying to say, I've seen Olympic lifters struggle with movements outside of what they are used to doing in training, that's normal for any sport.
Just because Lasha is the best at Olympic lifting doesn't mean he will be competitive in strongman, simply because he hasn't trained for it not because he doesn't have the potential.
@@manuelnaim9206olympic lifting is more difficult? Okay, why not a aingle olympic lifter did 500 kg deadlift? Oh wait, because they all too weak. Don’t compare an F1 formula car vs. A ferrari road car. The difference is massive. Strongman are a different beast
@@deivytrajan ??? olympic weightlifting is more difficult because it requires skill, technique and efficiency to actually perform the lifts. Yes 500kg is difficult but not in the same way, it's difficult because it's heavy. Tell me what's easier to pick up? Would you be able to learn olympic weightlifting faster than strongman? I don't think so.... Strongman is relatively using primitive movements which we are meant to do.
Olympic lifting is a hyper specific set of skills, thats why 80% of the training is the same movements over and over again with varying intensities. Strongmen are multipurpose athletes.
Comparing strongman to Oly lifting is like comparing MMA to boxing.
"I can pull the bar higher than lasha, i can deadlift more than lasha can clean pull, i can drive the bar higher than lasha". Yes mitch if that is the only thing that you focus on. But doing that with the technique, speed and ease that lasha does it with you absolutely couldn't. If lasha disregarded weightlifting technique he could squat, pull and press way more. But that wouldn't be productive for weightlifting.
You are a wolly. Mitchell obviously wasn't saying he could do what Lasha could. He was really clear on that. I don't know if this guy edited Mitchell's video into nonsense but maybe you should watch Mitchell's video and the title
Can confirm as a mildly strong dude (675deadlift, 510atg squat at 195bw), bar height and deadlift mean absolutely nothing in olympic lifting.
I have enough bar height for a 140kg snatch and a 180kg clean. But i currently cant get under a 140kg clean nor a 100kg snatch.
@@boliusabol822 *wally
I love the Rip being disappointed clip 😂😂
Agree with your points although you underrated Koklyaev as a weightlifter. He's done a 210kg snatch and a 250kg C&J.
In Mitchell's video, I suggested he should check out Mart Seim to see how statically strong weightlifters can be.
Plainly put, he doesn’t understand what he’s watching. I can’t fathom this level of delusion.
This reads as jealousy on the part of Hooper. Olympic weightlifting is technically much more challenging than any other strength sport and all of the powerlifters and strongmen know this. Lasha has a Lebron like notoriety world wide for his strength, and he did so in a sport thats technically much more difficult to master than the other strength sport.
Getting an Elite weightlifter to a high level in strongman would be challenging, but getting an elite strongman to a high level in weightlifting would be impossible.
Mark Henry
You forgot to mention that the first ever World’s Strongest Man was an elite weightlifter beforehand. Bruce Wilhelm was a thrower turned weightlifter turned WSM. Mark Henry was also a great example of a crossover athlete.
Most strongmen comes from other sports.. Thats mainly because it's not a huge sport (yet).. and the don't have these kid-farms for weeding out athletes at the age of 10...
I think Mitch is one of the most intelligent strongmen ever and has incredble fitness for a sport infamous for pushing human bodies into dangerous territories. But I honestly don't know why he picked a battle like this one where the *entire* *premise* of the argument is based on a hypothetical that will (sadly) never happen.
And tbh I find it strange that Mitch would think that Lasha couldn't be great overhead when *Mitch* *himself* uses a jerk style for several overhead events in strongman that, compared to Eddie Hall or Žydrūnas Savickas, is extremely technical. If that is part of his strongman repertoire, then why would Lasha not be able to transfer his technique over??
Just my two cents, I think the two sports are so closely related that they practically beg for dual athletes like Koklyaev, or folks who give both a try at different times like Mart Seim. When I train at the gym, I will often put clean & jerks on the same day as the tire or the circus bell because they just go together.
The real question is would either Lasha or Mitch make halfway decent indie county music?
My jaw dropped when he brought up front squats for stones..... Like my man, even if i be generous and give you all your other points, the stone argument was literally the dumbest thing ive heard him spout, the stones are closest to carry over apart from log press to Oly lifting.. yikes!
Hard to say if Lasha would be a great strongman or not (also depends on how you define great). He has trained unidirectionally for the Olympic lifts almost two decades, which is a very defined set of skills. Strongman does have a lot of variety in events and not every athlete adapts to unfamiliar events quickly.
Ryan Crouser would win WSM in 5 years if he retired right now and I 100% believe that as a long time strongman fan
I agree with that. Mitch will give you a video with 10 reasons why he cannot though as Mitch is always the best in any comparison
I don't think Mitchell said he couldn't BECOME a strong man, if he trained for it. The discussion was whether he IS the strongest man in the world.
I don't think you are being honest in this video at all.
You know very well what Hooper said.
Mitch calling Lasha's squat unimpressive is the funniest part of the video. Lasha squatted 335x2 with a weightlifting belt and useless wraps, probably near the end of a session, and he did it with reserve speed and great control. Mitch has a video squatting 350x3 low bar, wearing wraps and a PL belt, and it looks like an earthquake is going on. Lasha is 100% a stronger squatter than Mitch is.
I'm nowhere near any of these guys' strength, but my DL went up 130 lb after not training it for 2 years and instead focusing on cleans. It's shocking how much olympic lifting and speed+force+skill translates into other strength sports. And your thesis @19:50 about 2 different conversations is everything: of course a transplanted athlete won't perform well immediately, but a great athlete will adapt and do well with time.
Mitchell is such a conecited dude. His voice bugs me. Hes wrong on this
I don't think the conversation was could lasha be good if he dedicated his entire life I took it as if he showed up to the next wsm or smoe would he place you guys are talking about different hypotheticals
I’m not saying that he would dedicate his entire life to it. I’m just saying if he gave a shit and gave a shit long enough he could do very well.
@zacktelander I can agree with that I just didn't think that was mitch's meaning great vid nonetheless
@ that "long enough" would have to be as long as his weightlifting career. He's a phenomenal weightlifter but it doesn't mean much in strongman. You can masturbate the thought of Lasha kicking strongmens butts but it wouldn't happen.
Mitchell's and Zach's opinions are actually both rather nebulous. And Zach is guessing at the absolute strength potential of Lasha. Both could be correct or both could be wrong or somewhere in-between. One thing that was missing in this discussion with the focus on Lasha, is the 21 year olymic weighlifter Mitchell mentioned and what his potential is if he changed over to strongman. It's more likely he could be very successful. The reality is that Lasha at 31 may not be able develop the musculature of an elite strongman to be at the very top level (podiuming at the top meets). By the time he does, he'd be in his mid 30s and, not too many elite strongmen are that old (ask Brian Shaw how competing at WSM against much younger strongman worked out the past few years). Zach also does a disservice to all the top young strongmen out there who are really exceptional and have been doing strongman for years and have been developing their strength since their early teens or earlier. I'm also of the belief that strongmen aren't defacto the strongest people on earth. That's good marketing on the sports part.
He's too busy focused on glazing Lasha and weightlifting so hard to be objective and reasonable. And yes, strongman now isn't about pure displays of strength because it's become too standardized in attempts to make it more commercially appealing and viable. Not sure what sport(singular) would contain the strongest people on earth at this point, especially compared to strongman's aim.
Another point that sort of adds to what Zack is saying: There are tons of very successful strongmen who prior to strongman had never been at the top level of any strength or athletic endeavor. A lot of them were guys who couldn't even make it into a top tier college program for their respective sports and then basically took up strongman as an adult hobby. If you think that the bulk of strongman competitors are actually the top tier of human genetics for strength sports you're just kidding yourself. No one who's about to go in the first round of the NFL draft says "nah nevermind I'm going to drop out and go be a strong man". Most strong men are strong men because they didn't make it in other sports.
But you don't think the Olympian with the greatest total of all time in one of the longest running Olympic events is going to be able to figure out strong man? Lol ok.
So what about Brian Shaw? He was once a 230lb kid only good enough to play basketball at Black Hills State college. You think anyone was saying "that guy can clearly be the strongest in the world?".
Also people need to really comprehend what it would mean for Lasha to be able to go on a FULL UNTESTED BLAST. Lasha currently has to cycle while dodging Olympic testing. You give the man with the biggest clean and jerk all time the full bore untested horse cock stack and he's going to annihilate everyone.
Log is different beast. Klokov had hard time log pressing. Toroktiy couldnt press strongman dumbell. Koklyaev has done all 3 big sports. He isnt your catch-all scenario of going from one sport to another. Koklyaev is an amazing athlete that earned a lot in strength sports and it should be treat a lot higher than 'this happens if you switch'.
Mitch Hooper saying that lasha would not be successful at strongman is like the fastest wide receiver saying that Usain bolt would not be successful as a wide receiver which has some level of Truth to it because running in a straight line is different from running in a zigzag and catching a ball. But if you gave Usain bolt the technical skills of an NFL wide receiver, he would 100% be the best wide receiver of all time. If you gave lasha the training needed to be a strong man, He has the potential to be the greatest strong man of all time. I don't think it's that complicated
The technical gap between weightlifting and strongman is so much less than football and 100m sprint.
@@cheeks7050I agree
Yes if you gave the fastest person in the world 90% of what makes a great WR he would be a great WR. Do you see how silly that argument is?
It's almost as if training specificity has to do with the specifics of the sport one trains... Also, strongman is technically not as demanding as Oly weightlifting. If Lasha could learn Oly weightlifting at a super elite, Olympic competitive level, he wouldn't have issues with the demands of strongman. His strength foundation is already solid, too. And he's a big guy with a big gut, perfect for strongman
Any Division I sprinter would be able to adapt to field sports pretty fast. Noah Lyles dominated 60 m during Winter season last year. It's not that much of work for them to train for football -- in terms of sprinting. Obviously there exists so many more factors here that make the transition difficult, but it's not sprinting.
While Mitch is basing his conclusion on the data we have on the weights we can see been lifted, you are basing your counter on hypotheticals.
Lasha being as strong as he is; not to mention that man moves like someone a quarter his size. His athleticism is freaking wild let him learn the movements and he'd probably be a strong competitor in any strength based sport.
00:26 Rippetoe's clip 🤣
Your whole argument seems to be that Lasha has proven to be extremely genetically gifted for Olympic lifting so he would be at strongman too and that just doesn't necessarily follow. You don't know what your potential in a sport is until you realise it and all sports are different.
How's his grip? How's his cardio? How's his pain tolerance? How's his muscular endurance? How fast can he move with weight? How quickly can he learn the technique for 10-20 different events? (This one in particular is Mitch's specialty.) How quickly can he learn a totally different style of training? How's his resilience to injury? (Absolutely key for top strongmen.)
Too many questions, there's no way you can say whether he'd be a t the top or not after 2 years of training. All you can say is that if he entered the ASC (next big comp) he'd win one events and be near the bottom for all the rest because he isn't ready for it, as no-one is for a comp without prep.
Took way too long a scroll to find a well thought out comment like this. It was pretty clear that's what Mitch was arguing while Zach was too busy being offended that his hero wasn't being properly glazed for things he's shown 0 capacity and capabilities for.
Being very explosive is NOT the same thing as being very strong, regardless of the massive overlap between the two. Totally different genetic biases. I agree more with Mitch on this one
But Lasha IS very strong...
@ absolutely he is, but we’re talking about two radically different sports, and strongman has its own element of technique mastery to it. I think Lasha would do great in lower level strongman or Highland Games comps, but I don’t think he’d be competitive at the highest level of professional strongman anymore than I think Mitchell Hooper would be competitive in Olympic level weightlifting
@@BUFFALO_cougar_slayer technical mastery in strongman? come on man lmao
@ …….. can’t tell if srs 🤔
@@BUFFALO_cougar_slayerdude there isnt technical mastery in the strongman lifts anywhere near the level of weightlifting that doesnt even come into discussion when arguing about the topic they train for like 8-9 events for a much shorter period . Weightlifters train two lifts there whole lives my arguement has always been the same . Weightlifters are the most powerful ,powerlifters are the strongest and strongmen are the most well rounded . Many men have been wsm but nobody has ever done what lasha has
Mitchells whole argument is, Lasha wouldn’t be a good strong man if walked onto the competition right now. jesus
Wouldn’t this be the same argument if Mitchell decided to do Olympic weightlifting? Like it would take some legit training for him to be proficient
He couldn’t and wouldn’t
He wouldn't say he could be a weightlifter though. If I'm understanding you.
I completely agree with you but from what I've seen from Hooper's series "could x be good at strongman" he simply puts the person in a strongman comp as they are this instant
You’ve chosen one of the weakest deadlifters in strongman for this argument 1:49
Zack sounds like MMA fans cheering on Francis going into boxing :D
There's deadlift "very serious weights" and then there's almost DOUBLE what Lasha has done. 505kg is gunna be broken this year. Maybe by two people.
No one is doubling Lashas deadlift you simpleton 😂
@zacktelander where's your reading comprehension? 505kg is "almost" double 300kg, I didn't say "actually double"
Several have done reps with over 1,000 lbs.
There's a ton of folks that have squatted well over 1,000 lbs as well.
This is reality, what could he do right now if he started training for SM, not alternate universe idealized dream Lasha
@@patrickmurphy8008 it's bc the 300 for 3 was not his max, and it wasn't a deadlift
@@harrison3910 sure, sure, valid points. What's his peaked 1rm on dead you'd wager? 360kg? That's a light beginning to an ascending deadlift ladder of 5 for pros.
Arguing about if Lasha trained from birth for SM is just role-playing, but realistically, he's not easily adding 100kg+ on his peaked 1rm in any short time frame, or ever.
@@patrickmurphy8008 for the sake of hypotheticals and simplicity. It's often said that your snatch pr is about half your deadlift pr. Lasha also has long ass arms, so he'd probably be very good at deadlifts. 225x2, so I'd say 450 I'd give that a 10kg range downward. Obviously, it's hard to achieve that without CNS training. So I'd say during his peak, he'd hit that in 3-6 months of deadlift training
Mitchel pooper is a self serving, egotistical goof ball competing at a time with little competition. Shaw retired.Zvikas retired. Loz retired. And Strongman has changed to a sport suited to lighter, smaller athletes like Mitch. Lasha is truly a strongman. Accomplished way more than Pooper. Mitch needs to be quiet. Guilia Imperio is stronger than Mitch. Olivia Reeves is stronger than Mitch
I think training weightlifting is a way different beast than strongman. To train years and years to incrementally increase two lifts is way more mentally and physically taxing than moving a lot of weight around in different ways. I've always admired the discipline and will power of weightlifters, bodybuilders, and wrestlers. When you mix strength and technique, it's a different game.
Do a series where you apply yourself to strongman and compare. Reference your Front Squat to an Atlas Stone, etc.
Greg Douchette is hard to listen to so thank you for your sacrifice 😂
For real, dude's way of speaking+ the editor are absolute cancer
Lasha Training In Strongman Equipment Would Absolutely DESTROY The Competition. He Could Do 800-900 for reps with strongman knee wraps and belt
on a side note Szimon Kolecki is still breaking heads at the age of 43 in polish mma organization
Don't forget Lu winning the Olympics at age 37 as well and if he hadn't retired between Tokyo and Paris, he very well could have won the 73 kg category, assuming Shi was in the same condition in this alternate timeline as he was last year.
Mitchell isn't saying he can't do it, just that it's not guaranteed.
10:50 I was with you up until this point. Because that’s the same argument that Mitchell is using just in reverse. You really don’t think Eddie hall or Thor or any of the other greats couldn’t clean and jerk 267 if they had focused their whole life on it? I think at that point it’s just Lasha fanboying
For the record I think lasha could be a great strongman if trained, one of the best. I just dont like the argument at 10:50 I think it’s hypocritical
They definitely couldn't have lmaoo. Weightlifting is a speed strength sport, not a strength sport, none of these athletes ever showed explosiveness ever, and also we have seen a strongman transition into Weightlifting, mark henry. Who couldnt outlift 85kg weightlifters despite being 180-190 kgs that how much mark henry got outclassed
@ I don’t think that’s a fair example. Mark Henry didn’t train his whole life for weightlifting. He transitioned, as you said later in life. My point was if one of those guys (heck you could even say mark Henry) trained their whole life for it. Explosiveness is something you can develop if trained from a young age. Yea I agree there isnt a chance in hell that any of the strongmen could be the greatest weightlifter of all time if they just decided to pick it up later in life. They would need to have started from childhood. But you could also say the same about lasha. No way is he deadlifting 1100 lbs unless he has specifically trained his whole life for that. But he’s not doing it if he just decides he’s a strongman now
@@ix_9_ix also, Eddie continental cleaned 216 and then strict pressed it. That’s not even a strongman main event. You really don’t think if he hadn’t trained his ENTIRE life for a regular clean and jerk he couldn’t do 267?
@shades4313 that doesnt matter, again weightlifting is NOT a pure strength sport, it is a speed AND strength sport, both are equally important. There are weightlifters who have had higher strength numbers coming to competition than lasha and are not even close to him in terms of the clean and jerk, for reference the clean and jerk is very correlated to ones strength. Its not to say strength doesn't matter in weightlifting, it obviously does, but strength without speed doesn't translate to even the clean snd jerk. Lasha never squated more than 330 and yet clean and jerked 270, there are active weightlifters who have squated 400 and dont compare. Speed is also limited by your genetics, just like strength. We can teach an athlete to be somewhat fast, but fast enough to be an all time great weightlifter? No
Funny story about the log, I remember an amateur 67kg lifter training at our gym while strongmen were also training. He was so fascinated by the log that he asked if they could teach him. He ended up jerking 110/120kg (I forgot how much the log weighed it was the wooden type; I just remember a red and green plate) once he got the hang of it.
20:52 Zach is so triggered, and rightly so. The logic behind the argument of bringing up front squat… There is no point in responding because there is no logic there.
Lasha Can Deadlift 1000LBS+ If He Trained It To Strongman Standards With Straps
I think Lasha would set the log WR with a one month training cycle after him coming off of same training cycle where he hit 267.
But he’s just using skill and bar whip to get the biggest clean and jerk of all time!!! /s
Log is a whole different animal than a bar, you should really try it out
True that, I'm an oly weightlifter and tried that out in our gym we share with strongmen and powerlifters, it wasn't easy@@patrickmurphy8008
Log press is an entirely different animal and being the best in the world at clean and jerk doesn't mean as much as weightlifters seem to think. Obviously it helps but nearly as much as you guys make it out to be.
@@zacktelander Log press isn't even close to the same thing as a barbell. Anyone who has actually lifted a log will know that. Being the best in the world at clean and jerk certainly helps but not nearly as much as common weightlifters make it out to be.
As someone who used to think like you towards powerlifters transitioning to strongman: you (and past me) are wrong
And I didn’t understand it until I started competing in strongman
The difference in implements makes a HUGE difference. The comment about front squaring a 200kg stone for instance- that’s NOT like a front squat or zercher with a barbell. It’s more like a static row with the weight while having the center of mass farther in front of you completely changes the mechanics AND how heavy it feels.
On top of the insane difficulty, in the literal sense of every single thing you do. Not just a technical curve like learning a new movement. There a problem solving component to it that you don’t understand until you’re trying to shoulder 2x bodyweight with a sandbag.
Including the recovery demands and systemic fatigue issues you have to learn to work around
Powerlifters and weightlifters DO have an advantage coming into it, an equal advantage, but the best at either sport is going to at most get their pro card then come mid pack at a pro event
13:30 I really don't like Zack's thinking here. "The most skillful with a barbell" isn't a thing, he's the most skilled at the two oly lifts and you can't just pretend like skills transfer over just because there is a barbell involved, would you also argue he could become the best strict OHPer of all time just because you OHP using a barbell? Bench is a highly technical movement (not comparable to oly lifts, but it's technical at the highest level, which is in lower weightclasses in powerlifting) and acting like he could master the technique because he's good at oly lifting is basically fortune telling.
13:45 again, due to the way olympic weightlifters are picked and by looking at his career there's basically no proof that he'd respond well to the dose of drugs strongmen need and that he'd perform well at the bodyweight needed for all of this. Acting as if a person with a 180x5 bench can get to roided elite level just because they have genetics for something else is not only irrational, it's counterintuitive statistically speaking
😂bench is a highly technical movement!?
Stopped reading after you said bench is a highly technical movement
Youd know if you benched more @@zacktelander
@@zacktelander if you kept reading you'd see the "(not comparable to oly lifts)", which makes it a full true statement. Acting as if it's the same as a dumbbell curl and lasha could just go and outbench an SHW powerlifter "because da mindset" is ignorant
@@jonnyoneplate compared to oly lifting, not at all. Compared to most gym exercises (pull ups, curls, atg all quad squats) it's highly technical
As a lifelong strongman fan, and as someone who "hated" seeing strongmen getting @ s kicked by weightlifters (as I root for the strongman camp), weightlifters have always been dominant in strongman.
Most notable cases: Misha Kokyliaev and Raimonds Bergmanis. Both went on to become top tier in their generations, with podium performances all the time, obliterating the competition in most deadlift and squat events, and shoulder events (albeit they "cheated" using split movements, while the rest strict pressed or push pressed).
If Lasha really wanted, he would become WSM or at least, at the very least, top 5 in the world.
The fast twitch fibers are there, the deadlift, the squat, the shoulder, back and core strength, the mental part and discipline, the endurance for pain, he has got it all. Mitchell is just jealous he needs a truckload of pancakes and some cheating here and there to get his WSM status.
You made me turn on my PC just to comment, you're being overly defensive and relying purely on religion-level hypothetical arguments. It's clear as day you're coping because you like the sport and want to defend it. But let's face it, it's silly to assume that a guy who's strong in a handful of movements which he's been doing all his life since he was a kid would be able to perform just as well on Strongmen movements (which are so many and so varied). And Mitch is right, the guy who lifts the heaviest weights isn't necessarily the strongest, for instance, the strongest man to have ever lived: Big Z, has broken a lot of records but he's not the strongest on a wide array of movements, he's just the most consistently strong overall.
lol as if Mitchell isn’t taking the EXACT approach to defend HIS sport. You’re coping too my brother. Turn the pc off now
@@zacktelander you guys are both coping and I'm here for it. I got my popcorn.
Lasha simply too tired from carrying all his Olympic gold medals around to even bother feeling like competing in strongman
I thought Mitchell was talking about whether someone like Lasha could win in strongman quickly, doesn't he say "in a few weeks or months" or something like that?
To which I would say what kind of argument is that?
@@zacktelander Anything but an analysis of documented feats as they relate to the sport would just be pure speculation. If you watch Hooper's videos speculating about Joe Kovacs, Colton Engelbrecht, or Tom Haviland entering WSM he always bases his opinion on their documented lifts to answer the question of "Are they the strongest in the world?" rather than "Could they maybe one day become the world's strongest man?"
I doubt Mitch would deny that if peak Lasha went on a strongman cycle and trained like a strongman for a few years, he *probably* would have absolutely killed it, but it's impossible to know for sure. You can't just say "well, obviously he would have dominated" because someone who excels at certain movement patterns might not be as naturally gifted at others.
I do think it's pretty reductive of him to dismiss top weightlifters as "not that strong" due to the technique involved. Mitch is also "not that strong" at things he doesn't train for. His bench is pretty (relatively) weak by his own admission in the video, but that doesn't make him "not that strong" compared to powerlifters. He just doesn't bench that often. Strongman isn't the only way to gauge someone's strength and it's pretty arrogant of him to think that it is.
@@zacktelander its because greg video says with 1 month could he be a top 10 strongman
@frankexchangeofviews
yes he was
@@McKenna2233exactly this.
Love that you took this one. The point about the small strength-to-oly lifts gap is such a good point that is going to be lost on so many people, obviously including Hooper here. Weightlifters don't "train" a 1rm squat or deadlift like powerlifters or strongmen! Hooper just doesn't get that
If a 6’3 marathon runner can completely dominate the sport after a few years of strongman training I think it’s safe to say lasha would do pretty damn well
Mitch is blind to other people being able to come into Strongman and win despite the very fact that iswhat he did. I cannot listen to him any more its just boring seeing him always conclude that he is the best
Glad you responded to this officially. Your “Lasha is the strongest” video was playing in my head as I watched Mitch’s video
What if Vegata went to earth instead ahh debate
Mark Henry, former Olympic weight lifter, trained for three months and won the first Arnold Classic…..against the top strongmen of that era. You can argue the Mark was statically stronger than Lasha but he wasn’t nearly as explosive. This whole discussion is amusing because Hooper isn’t close to being the strongest in the sport of strongman….he’s the most efficient, explosive and intelligent. All things you can assume Lasha would also excel at.
Mark also only trained in Weightlifting for a few years
@@IbrahimAl-Khwarizmieven if that was true he didnt excell nearly as well as he did in strongman
Two different arguments being made here, disguised as disagreement. The easily misinterpreted (maybe intentional) hot takes create clicks and impressions so I get it. A devoted fan base can easily be triggered, on both sides over hypotheticals... Both videos can be right without discounting the other.
Several things to say.
First, I like your music and have subscribed to you on Spotify. But I'm glad you're back to doing some Olympic weightlifting videos.
Second, I find it hilarious that Rippetoe says all you need to be good at Olympic weightlifting is strength and technique doesn't matter, and Hooper says it's all technique and Olympic weightlifters aren't that strong.
The bench press thing. I wonder how much Lasha actually trains the bench press? I remember one time I really focused on Olympic lifting and my only upper body pushing exercise was the push press. After a few months I benched just for fun and my bench press had increased with no actual bench training. Was it a great bench? No. Would I have benched more if I dedicated more time to benching? Of course. But the fact that my bench improved just from push presses says a lot.
The log. I bought a log because they are fun as hell and I think make a great cross-training tool. The bulkiness is what makes them fun. But the level of bulkiness is, I think, related to the lifter's size. I'm 5'8" and for me, standard 12 inch diameter log is a bear. For Lasha at 6'6", less so. Also, a log can be lifted overhead in any way. There is no press out rule. I've even seen one competitor split jerk a log. You think Lasha may have an advantage if he were to split jerk a log? Hooper is right that cleaning a log is very different, but there are skills from Olympic weightlifting that would transfer. Once you get the log on your log, you then need to roll the log up the front of your body. But like a clean with a bar, the power comes from our legs. Drive hard and explosively with the legs and rolling the log come becomes easier. You think Lasha knows something about driving hard and explosively with the legs? Let Lasha get comfortable with the log and he would absolutely dominate this event.
I think Hooper missed the whole point of the discussion..
Mitchell seems like a nice man but frequently makes weak arguments:(
Thank god you put this out. Some absolutely absurd claims made in the original video, especially given the 'sport science' way many of the arguments are framed (despite being very logically flawed)
Respectfully, both of you are making the "I think..." argument. You keep saying "I think Lasha would be so good at the deadlift." but you dont know. Mitch keeps saying "I dont think Lasha could do this." but he doesnt know. The original question was could Lasha do it in a month to a year. And especially when it comes to unusual movements LIKE a yoke or atlas stones, could he be top ten? Against people like Mitch, Trey, Tom, Thor and Evan?
In a year... I doubt it. But I don't know.
Mitch's video was horrendously bad
Correction, if I may. "Mitch's *videos are* horrendously bad."
Dude is clearly trying to generate clicks with most of his vids.
@@ClockCutter He has a valley accent that is intolerable, and his personality sucks.
@ClockCutter I agree with your correction
I watched Mitchell's video the other day and was sitting there yelling at my phone all the stuff you are saying right now 😂 thank you Zack
"people moving the most weight are not always the strongest"
... Bro isn't that the definition of strength?! 😅
You're not wrong, but in the context of the sport of strongman that logic does apply
No. Mariusz Pudzianowski won WSM 5 times. The strongest man ever, Žydrūnas Savickas, didn't break the deadlift world record nor is he the best bench presser. But he is, without question, the strongest man ever in recorded history.
What you're doing here is a perfect example of taking a quote and putting it out of it's context
if a test of strength exists long enough, it's no longer a test of strength. The same way school test aren't tests of knowledge, they're a test of whether you can pass the test
If the argument is "he wont do very well as he is" then yes fair enough
If the argument is "he doesn't have the potential to be a great strongman"
Then no WTF he literally has the body type of the modern strongman and hes objectively strong AF
I hope lasha sees hooper video and drops everything to set a goal to deadlift 500kg before Thor and Hooper
Yeah im sure Thor is worried.
Is he going to go back 5 years?
@simpleboy3457 Definitely not, but that doesn't really metter, it will be some fun competition
@hefudgedafrog Thor is currently trying to dl 500kg again. That's what I meant.
Oh man, as soon as I watched hooper's video, I started looking forward to this one!!
This is just stupid argument from all Greg, Mitch and Zack. They all have arguments defending their own side but because its all hypothetical it doesent mean anything. Like overhead argument is all so stupid because we have no idea what would happen. Yea Lasha is stronger (not that much) then Koklayev in snatch 225kg vs 210kg and CJ 267kg vs 250kg. But these numbers dont mean anything when we are talking about log and it is totally different thing. Maybe could be great at log maybe not and we will never know because Lasha will never touch log or any strongman specific equipment.
honestly, your argument is stupid. you're literally just angry at yourself that theoretical arguments exist lmao
@ Im not angry at all. Its just that either side has not been able to say anything even close to convincing.
You clearly don't know much about weightlifting if you think the gap between 210 and 220 snatch is small. 😂
@@ix_9_ix Yes in weightlifting the difference is significant but in its still only 7% so I personally dont think that it would really matter if he would go do strongman.
@aGuUU27 no you don't realize how significant it is, the world record set by khrastov in the gold age of weightlifting in the 80s was 216 in the snatch, that was not even touched until 2016 onwards. Again this isnt powerlifting or strongman were records are constantly broken by whoever
Great vid Zack, this was pretty convincing especially given that I had already watched Hooper's video before this and thought he was mostly right. You changed my mind.
Just a counter to the point of recruiting children: these selection processes are focusing on much more than just strength, but largely anthropometry, explosiveness (power not strength), etc that make for a good weightlifter. Factors that are not required to make a good strongman. This process could dismiss an absolute behemoth because they aren't the right shape or size
Zach is so butthurt
why? its free content and makes him money. The response wrote itself. Mitchell is really off on this
Cuck logic right here
nah, this Mitch dude is just straight up wrong
Lasha on DRUGS would fucking crush it……
Lasha is on drugs already not possible to be the greatest of all time against doped up competitors but in strongman he wouldnt be limited to certain compounds and could take much more
@ what drugs do they allow in the Olympics??
This is so context based that it's a weird conversation to have.
But if the C&J translates so well into apollon's axle and log, why haven't weight lifters come and taken the records? Should be easy money as they've "trained their entire lives" and many Strongmen don't start doing apollon's axle and log lift before they're in their 20's.
The fact that Lasha has become as strong as he is while fine tuning his ability to execute the skills in weightlifting that are required to move these weight in multi step lifts alone proves that if you took the skill training out of it, he would for a fact have the strongest deadlift in the world in a very short period of time.
13:36 hard disagree, bench is a very technical movement.
Yeah Olympic weightlifting is way more technical, but bench is still a very technical exercise.
He doesn't agree but he's also a far cry from an elite bencher, it's hard to know nuance when you just lay on your back and push (and your numbers reflect it)
He doesn't care about SBD
Even Klokov said that. Bench is easier to start and give more margin for error for some time but once people get to elite level it's much more nuanced than it looks.
Agreed@@rrrGeist
Yes saying it’s not very technical compared to other lifts. Most strongman movements are way more technical. Log, axle, sandbag to shoulder, stones, etc
My grandma that is 90 can bench
.... it gets technical if you are at elite level.
i also think that Mitchell should really mention if his point is whether Lasha entered a strongman comp NOW or if he began training for strongman 15 years ago.
also his video just completely proved how unaware mitch is of how weightling works as a sport.
I think its an extremely silly notion to just assume that even if he had the time to train that he would just be able to do it all. Top tier strong man have the time and dedication to train all the nuances of the sport and come up short in specific events all the time. Funny enough Hooper is the only one to ever put it all together, so when you make the "nobody but Lasha has ever done that" argument that goes both ways. Nobody but the guy that is telling you Lasha couldnt do it has ever done that.
Sure if you assume that he can just magically be elite at all events at the same time, respond to roids like the strong man elite, sustain the training of a strongman which puts a completely different strain on your body than an olympic weightlifter etc than yeah he could probably keep up with the very best. But thats like saying if Lasha was Lebron James he would be an all time great in the NBA. Yeah no shit.
great point
It stands to reason though that a great in a strength sport has all the fundamental attributes to be great in any strength sport. Same way Mark Henry was a great weightlifter, then became a great powerlifter, then for the time a great strongman too. Not to mention weightlifters have incredible explosion off the floor and better mobility than anyone in strongman
Bro is role playing his idol to be elite at everything because he's good at an adjacent sport
@@radthibideaux9978 I dont think its reasonable to just assume that. Strongman isnt just about strenght, its also about muscular endurance, anaerobic capacity and a different type of mobility than you need in olympic weightlifting. You also put a different strain on your body than in weight lifting. Who knows if his body can hold up? Strongman get injured all the time.
Its stupid to just assume he has all of that.
Would he be an elite strongman if we assumed he has all of that? Sure, but the 20th best olympic lifter would be an elite strongman if we just assumed he had all of that. The 100th best strongman would be an elite strongman if we just assumed he had all of that.
Mitchell hooper was a mediocre marathon runner that transitioned into strongman and did incredibly well. A lot of strongmen are people that transitioned to strongman late after failing in another sport. It's a very young niche sport that is just starting to get a lot of traction. This is also why we are constantly seeing insane improvements in the sport of strongman and will so in the future when the next generation of kids who were trained from birth to be strongmen start competing. There is no reason to believe Lasha, someone who exceeds generational talent in a much older more popular sport that also closely resembles strongman in a lot of ways wouldn't be able to do well in strongman if he trained for it.
As far as squat strength, former SHW powerlifter Shane Hamman (squat 455) when he switched to weightlifting put up 195 + 225. Which is a good result, but at least a level below the top. Alexeyev, for example, said in an interview that he never did squats with more than 270kg because he didn't have to and he had an C&J 256kg.
What a flawless rebuttal to Hooper's verbal flatulence.
It seems like part of the confusion is that lifters don’t understand that people who came up in Olympic Weightlifting as kids or from another country don’t really see it as "lifting".
To us, gym bros, all of those things are related, CrossFit, benching, getting a pump, lifting heavy stuff in the woods with your buddies, armwrestling, wtv. For a lot of weightlifters who came up in the sport in other countries they see it more like a regular sport. When they do other lifts it’s either purely for fun or the whole purpose and execution is meant to carry over to their comp lifts. They likely never exist in the middle where lifters want to dabble in everything just to show they are "generally strong" at every lifting related thing.