Pilot runs out of OUTS! | ICING Airplane | Airman Decision Making and living to fly another day
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2022
- What happens when things don’t go as planned, the weather is worse than forecast, and you run out of “OUTS” as a pilot? You have to accept you are not going to complete the mission.
We battle a brutal spring storm heading home from Florida. Head winds, wind shear, icing in Georgia, more icing in Kentucky and Tennessee, I can’t get low enough to stop the icing. When Plans A, B and C have gone to crap, it’s time to call it off and live to fly another day. I refuse to be an episode on AOPA’s Accident Case Study!!
Ride along with us, agree or question my Airman Decision Making (ADM) right now on this episode of SIX ZERO ALPHA.
DISCLAIMER: This video is highly edited for entertainment purposes only. It is NOT for instruction or training. I am not a CFI. Seek qualified CFI and training in your own airplane. Now sit back, relax and enjoy the views! 😀
Music
"Let’s Go Home” - Jeremy Blake
Forget the Money - “A Single Grain of Rice” - Yi Nantiro ft. Alan Watt
“Ascent” - Joel Cummins
“Resolve” - Joel Cummins
“Diving in Backwards” - Nathan Moore
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As a CFII, I appreciate the videos where things don't go as planned, especially with weather. In my CFI training, the instructor said always remember that we are the prey and weather is the predator. You can die, and die quickly if you're not careful when flying into weather. I highly encourage all private pilots to get their instrument ratings. It wills save your life some day.
thanks for the comment!
In42 years of flying for hire all over the world one thing rang true. "Landing is essential taking off is optional." The mark of true airmanship is always leaving an avenue of escape. There is no such thing as TOO SAFE.
So true. Highly recommend flying with an instructor in actual IMC conditions.
I’ve been flying for 37 Years and loving it and it’s great to seeing your family enjoying the PA-300 Piper Cherokee Six that I’ve always wanted to fly
Glad you enjoy it!
Love this. I like seeing real flying experiences, so I know what to expect with my family and friends when I go fly to a destination. It helps me get mentally prepared with any possible challenges which I possibly haven't considered.
glad you enjoyed and it helped!
Enjoyed the video. Thanks for posting and letting us ride along.
Glad you enjoyed it
I appreciate these videos! I learn so much and love that mentality of “it’s ok not to complete the mission.”
Glad you like them!
Wow, this video brings back some memories of that time so long ago, when I used to fly general aviation. This kind of stuff was always in the back of your mind when flying a trip during the winter months.
Good decision not to continue pushing your aircraft and your flying abilities beyond your control, or the aircraft design limitations 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks, my family agreed!
Priceless message. Great job on the content and production. Really enjoyed it👍🏻
Thank you so much 😊
I was studying my pilot handbook and it was talking about ice conditions, so I thought I'd watch a video about it to more thoroughly understand the material. Glad I found your vid. It was great to see how you walked us through the approach chart. Loved that you had your family with you, so the stakes were high and your safety-based decision-making was readily apparent.
thanks for stopping by and your nice words. Glad it was helpful! My decision making would have been no different if just me onboard. Establish your 'personal minimums' and stick to them no matter how many souls on board. Fly safe .
This was such a comforting video to watch so I can know what to expect. Thank you so much for not showing the same old experience where its nothing but beautiful weather.
Gkad to hear, that was my goal with this video. Thanks for watching and commenting 🙂
Loved everything on this video. Loved the commentary and how you made your decisions. Great job getting home
Thanks so much!!
I'm glad to see how quick you (and the man sitting co-pilot seat) were to identify and act accordingly to the unexpected icing conditions, and that you guys were able to execute a safe flight with a buttery smooth landing. Thanks for sharing the experience! I'm on instrument right now, and sometimes we forget some of the basics because we get so focused on the rating we're on, which is certainly an unsafe way to fly. Always refreshing and refining the basics of flight AND external factors such as weather - it's vital!!
Thanks for watching and the comment. One of the biggest things drilled into my head during IFR training was the accident rate and bad ADM. Conventional wisdom says IFR ticket makes us better & safer pilots which is generally true. But it is not a license to ignore common sense, forget the basics, let ego take over and go headlong into a situation the plane can't handle. #1 rule = fly the airplane, even if that means getting out of a bad IFR situation and using good 'ol VFR and basic pilotage to get to a safer place..
@@6ZeroAlpha Amen to that. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Safety is always priority.
Gotta love the Cherokee Six! Whata workhorse. Great vid
thx, we love it too for 12 years and counting! Lots of great family memories, more to come, stay tuned
Well put together video, solid flying and ADM........
Thank you!
Very much enjoyed the real life flying and great decision-making! I personally know the potential tragedy of get-there-itis and am pleased that you didn't go there and that you didn't back down from safe flying! 🌟
nope, refused to an AOPA Accident Case Study, hopefully others follow this lead
I love the Alan Watts talk you inserted right after takeoff. Brilliant! Looking forward to watching the rest.
Thank you, took a chance on the "Tik Tok" mentality of social media to share a compelling view and message that was longer than 10 seconds! Thanks for watching and the nice comment. 😀
Good decision making - even better outcome. Way too many times I (Com'l Inst ASEL), painted myself into a corner. My 45,000 hr father who soled in a Jennie, survived WWII and retired on a DC-10 told me..."A superior airman uses his superior judgement to keep himself out a a situation in which he might be called upon to demonstrate his superior skills".
thanks for sharing!
I loved watching this video because it helped remind me of a lot of things that I learned from my Instrument. I can also tell you kept learned flows from your training into your daily flying. Great pilot 💪🏻
Glad it was helpful! I was trained well and it does carry through to day to day flying IF you keep the skills sharp, as I try and do,. Thx.
Greetings from Australia, interesting flight and I applaud your decision making as safety is always the number one priority. ✈️🇦🇺
wow - AU, thanks for stopping by mate! always error on the side of caution, especially with precious cargo.
Really enjoying your videos. Your living the dream sir! Liked and subscribed! Thanks for the intricate editing. I know it’s a pain. The IFR details are nice to follow along.
thank you! I do work hard to tell a good story and not just slap some cockpit footage together. it takes time but all great things do and I enjoy the whole process. thanks for subscribing!
Good video and ADM. One thing my wife kindly pointed out to me while flying was how I react to the situations we come upon really influences her confidence in GA flying. For instance, “Whooo we made it!” May not be confindence inspiring. 😂
thanks for stopping by and the comment. I agree with your sentiment and wouldn't have said anything like that during the critical moment in the flight. By the last 15 mins of the flight it was clear the danger was over, ice melted away and airport in sight so it was more of a final "exhale" by me to make the point.
Nice to see how you handle less than ideal situations. Keep safe, too many general aviation crashes.
agree Les, thanks!
Been there in the mountains at night. Flew into a thunderstorm. One not on any weather brief back in 2005. I had just read an article on it. If that happens fly through it. I still can't believe I am alive today. Ice and 80 knot head winds. Auto pilot disengaged. Flight safety wrote an article called Ice in the desert about my survival.
Keep real life decision making a show. Saves lives.
wow, "mountains" "night" - just exponentially upped the pucker factor there for sure! thanks for the feedback, will do. It is part of my goal here, to let folks peak behind the curtain, inside the mind and decision making process we go through as pilots., why we do what we do.
Thanks for sharing. Much appreciated 👍
Thanks for watching
SO COOL!! Real life cross country experience!! Thank You! Have always Loved the Chrokee Six, solid as a rock.
Glad you enjoyed it! yes it is, hasn't let me down yet
I've flown that approach many times in my IFR training. I'm out of VPZ. Flown from CMI home many times over those windmills many times as well.
Smart move spending the night. When the conditions are deteriorating, best to stop. I fly a fully de-iced 340A, and I don't like to fly into ice, and will either deviate or land if it gets much worse that you encountered.
Be smart, live to fly another day. Better late than not at all.....
agree!
In a world of social media and selling people the happy stories, I appreciate the transparency and openness of this video. Subscribed!
Thank you, that was exactly my goal. Thanks for following us, more to come!
Good decision. When in doubt, chicken out! My grandfather told me that numerous times during flight training.
first time viewer here. New subscriber, well done. Icing is no joke.
Welcome aboard!
Excellent video!! One thing I wanted to add from my own experience is the limitations of datalink weather like NEXRAD from your ADS B in. Datalink weather isn’t instantaneous. Some radar images can take as much as 15 minutes to refresh. And 15 minutes is a very long time when you’re looking at troubling weather ahead. Most big jets and more expensive aircraft have on board weather radar systems that are the most accurate. NEXRAD is helpful although it should only be used as a supporting tool. There have been accidents of pilots trying to thread the needle on their NEXRAD or datalink weather causing to mislead pilots into believing they are viewing current weather information.
yes, agreed. In hindsight as I edited I saw it pop up on the ipad after we were through the 'mist'. Knew it but never experienced that before, lesson learned.
Your decision was greatly done
thank you, my family agrees.
Congratulations: everything done as we Pilots are trained to do! Know and respect your limits and know and respect your aircrafts limits! As a CFI I used to take my students into a adverse conditions in order to teach them proper decision making! How else can you know about those limits if you never approached them?!
Keeping my pupils alive was my highest priority and I’m glad to know I succeeded!😁
Well said! thanks for stopping by and the nice comment.
When we had a day when it would rain all day, I would call up my instructor and say, "Looks like a great day to fly!". Flying in IMC was great training and came in handy when I had to land at Tampa International and flew to minimums. Broke out of the clouds right on the money, even though the controller took me way off course before turning me inbound.
Man this is a very underrated RUclips Channel, keep up the good work!
Wow, thanks for the compliment, please keep watching, tell a friend or two about us 😀
Glad I found your channel! We lived in Fort Wayne for years. Before moving to Louisville a little over 3.5 years back.
Welcome!
6-Zero Alpha, another great video to include a great decision to land when dealing with the icing.
thank you, my family agrees
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
How does the saying go? "Better to wish you were in the air when you're on the ground than wish you were on the ground when you're in the air." Always keep that margin of safety!
yes...
This was outstanding! Great piloting !
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video! Just passed my IFR check ride two weeks ago. Great to see how real world scenarios can develop and how important it is to make a proper decision when weather turns to the worse. Great audio clip in the beginning. Was that Earl Nightingale?
Thanks, good luck with IFR but don't look at it as a ticket to fly in any weather and you'll be fine. Establush personal minimums, always have outs and not afraid to execute them when needed. Lastly, leave your ego on the ground, it's killed way to many IFR pilots. See video description for intro audio credit, the voice is Alan Watts.
Loved the adventure. Great vid!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Good video. I am a grounded ppl and just loved flying with you. I wish that i could spend time in you six. I had a 235 cherokee and her and i spent many hours flying Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan. I really, really miss flying. My heart condition about 11 years ago put me on the ground. Thank you for taking time to video forbus that can't be with you!
Sorry to hear, I know that day comes for all of us at some point. I'll keep flying & filming, you keep watching!
You bet i will thanks again!
Phenomenal content man! I live in the Wabash and was doing research on the cherokees and came across your video. You had me entertained every second. This is inspiring me to get my license and get into aviation myself!
Awesome! Thank you! That is my goal with my channel. I'm nobody and I can do this with some hard work, perseverance, and saving my money towards a goal, anybody can. Go for it. Come up and see us anytime at KASW when we get the plane back together, we'll go for a flight. cheers!
I'm glad you all made it home safely. But no hard feelings ill stick to the car.
lol!
Great video - superior judgment trumps superior flying skills ( not that you were short on that) good job😊
thanks for for stopping by, I agree with your sentiment! Always have plans & personal minimums.
Brilliant vid, epically good quality production, sounds random I know, but I loved the background music, added a sense of drama and ties it all in brilliantly.
Much appreciated, glad you enjoyed it! I actually do put effort into curating the right music for a video. Not randomly chosen stuff, thanks for noticing!
That shows truly airmanship knowing when to get on the ground instead of trying to outsmart nature. That keeps you out of the papers
agree, thx for watching
Congrats on hitting 1K!!
Yeah buddy, let those $0.04 checks every month start rolling in! 😀
@@6ZeroAlpha every penny counts!! Lol
Hi from the UK. Really good video. I learned a lot from it . I also loved the Audio on your first departure. Very inspiring. Thank you for posting.
Thank you very much, appreciate your kind words! It was a labor of love and more personal than anything. I first stumbled across the audio when I posted the take-off sequence on IG Reels. A random search of "inspirational" audio and it popped up in the top 5. I kept the sequence uncut in the full vlog because it moved me back to that time & emotion every time I watch it in final rendering. So I took a risk, kept in the final cut despite all the "experts" telling me I should cut it down to maybe 15 secs. I commented to my wife when I posted it that "nobody will watch this" because it's 22 mins long, and the opening sequence. Well, it's our best performing video to date. Thanks for watching, fly safe!
I feel it was God inspired and the trip felt natural, like I was there with you learning about icing up in real time. I wish you a blessed week ahead in all you do. fly safe.
That was a good outcome Captain Outs,,great flying Six Zero Alpha
agreed, thanks for watching and the feedback!
@@6ZeroAlpha That was a good video! As a now retired airline pilot at 63 years of age and 37 years of flying everything from Fokker F27's for regional airlines to Boeing 727 through to finally ending on Boeing 747's, I can attest that my most "fearful" moments came from both my initial PPL in general aviation and then along the way, some casual flights as passenger and also sitting in the right seat. I can laugh now but even as recently as 5 years ago, I am VERY easily persuaded to not choose a GA even if it is a small private jet. Stay safe sir! Subscribed from Australia.
SPG is my favorite airport by far, love the approach, the restaurent has amazing views and the city is so beautiful.
Awesome video, brings back lots of memories to me ♥️
Agree, check out our "To" St Pete video which highlights the rwy 7 approach and challenges!
@@6ZeroAlpha wildo
Aviation and Alan Watts in one video.. perfect!
Indeed, I agree! thx for stopping by
G,day from Sydney Australia.
I enjoyed watching the flying with excellent editing of radar and approach plates.
Really good camera view points around the plane.
🌏🇭🇲
Many thanks!
that take off with that voiceover it’s just perfect.
i'm rather biased, but I have to agree with you. thanks for stopping by
That's called freezing rain.. Check the FAR's on that.. You and everyone in that plane were lucky. Glad you made it home safely.
yes, or super cooled liquid droplets? It was the hazy mist seen in the video seemingly being rung from the clouds by the very cold air aloft. whatever it was, it was sudden, and scary and I did not like. Thx for watching.
@@6ZeroAlpha I was in this same position in a 182 on a x-country back to KSUS luckily with an instructor as part of my IFR training. He smacked my hand as I reached for the flaps as part of routine training. On short final I think we crossed the numbers at about 110 kts. and took the entire runway to land the plane. This video was almost exactly that.
good learning experience for you I'm sure. the best advice on an iced air-frame I ever got was "if the airplane is flying, don't touch anything until you know you have the runway made"
Great decision making!
Thanks!
Come on back to Smyrna anytime . That is where I am learning to fly! Hollingshead is a great FBO
Great field, great folks, really took care of us in a pinch and we appreciated it! Sending all my friends to Hollingshead good luck the training 👍
As a 3500hr pilot, I've been forced by unreported icing, to call it several times and dive into sketchy VFR several times. In a normally aspirated aircraft, sometimes you can't get over it and have only 1 option, dive to warmer air, especially in IFR arrivals. Set up for an IFR arrival and start loading up with ice....better to cancel the approach and dive for lower warmer air...NOW!
my thought process too, I knew is was above freezing at 3k
I am 46 and I have always dreamed of flying as a kid but life got busy and complicated so I havent thought of it till lately. I hear its never to late but a lot of people say that and dont really understand what things take. Glad your safe and will follow, your video was fun to watch.
It is never too late, you can do it! I started flying when I was 16, quit, went back and got my PPL at 31, got my IFR at 50 and started this channel, having the time of my life. Thx for following!
I got my ppl at 62 and instrument at 63- I have time and extra money to fly a lot - perfect timing really
@@MrBenkix i'd say so, fly the hell out of that license, enjoy!
Good job. Enjoyed the video. 🛫🌴🥥
Thanks 👍
nice vid, nice family, good decision ! I'd suggest you add more flight details like How many hours of flight, how much fuel you burned, How much weight you took on, CoG calculations etc etc.
thanks for the feedback, I will incorporate that into the next video! In hindsight I should have done a better job of explain exactly what Plan A, B, C was and that we had run out of altitude due to the terrain, ie could go any lower.
Thanks for video.
You are welcome, thanks for stopping by
One thing I would like to correct. You mentioned gaining weight causing the AOA to gradually increase causing an eventual stall. The reason is actually because the lift coefficient is decreasing due to increased drag over the wing surface area. This slowing of the air flow increases pressure above the airfoil which requires a greater AOA to counter. Cheers!
yes, several other comments on this. You can see me imitating a wing with my hand (correct premise), but primary cause is loss of lift due to disrupted boundary layer rather than weight as you stated Thanks for watching - cheers!
@@6ZeroAlpha Glad you caught that already by yourself. I was gonna say the same thing.
Warsaw was one of my earliest XC when a student pilot 50 yrs ago in 576FL. Flew out of Fleet filed in Culver Indiana.
That is so cool! We are so blessed to call it home, best kept aviation secret between Detroit and Chicago!
Lived in Warsaw 13 yrs. Got my Private at KGSH. KASW Great little town. I put current Airport KFPR, meant KASW. The Fussels had a school there at the time. Anyhow enjoyed the video. A Good Pilot is always learning. Heard that somewhere. Mzero. 😎
Thanks for sharing
The inspirational track about loving what you do instead of chasing money is fantastic. Where is it from? Love the video.
thank you for watching and the comment. I originally used on an IG Reel of the take-off sequence and got tons of views so I incorporated it into the video. The music is credited to “A Single Grain of Rice” - Yi Nantiro, an except from an Alan Watts lecture was overlaid but I don't know by whom. This clip is exactly how it was provided from the IG music library.
Excellent aeronautical decision making skills displayed on this trip. I once heard the best safety equipment you have on the plane is your credit card. Better to wait out the wx on the ground than risk accident. Safe flying.
thx, agreed! fly safe.
This guy is usually on top off all things
but not always....
Without watching the whole video I just want to say that it doesn’t matter if you made the right decision, the fact you made any decision and lived to see tomorrow is all that matters. Good for you for making the best call for you and your kids safety
Good perspective! I made this video becaue i was shocked at some fellow pilots reactions when I retold the story. They said going VFR was the worst decision ever, it was foolish, put my family at risk.... So I put you in my shoes and let you decide.i still think I made the right call becaue I'm alive and not on Probable Cause or AOPA's Accident Case Study 😀
@@6ZeroAlpha I'm not a pilot just a small town cop interested in aviation. But why in the world would someone want to stay in the clouds while dealing with a emergency situation. They are acting like their IFR ticket is the fix all. Unfortunately those are the pilots you see breaking out of the clouds in a spiral descent.
I used to have that interior in my Archer. I miss it
First time viewer of your channel. Great video of real world flying and decision making. I have a Piper Dakota and fly from KGMU to all around the Southeast but also fly into northern Michigan (KPZQ) a fair bit and run into similar challenges in November when I travel up for deer hunting season! Just hit Subscribe. 🙂
thanks!
Love the alaan watts speach in here, pure bliss with the view
I kinda thought the same thing when I was editing so I left it in there. I found it on accident when I made an Instagram "reel" prior to the vlog and it really captured my sentiment perfectly in those several minutes; I wish I could fly everyday, screw the money, career, responsibilities.... It broke every single "How to get & hold a viewer" RUclips rule (1 continuous shot for 4 mins, no dialogue, preachy speech by some dead guy....) but sometimes you go with your gut and forget what the "experts" say. Thx for watching, fly safe!
@@6ZeroAlpha beautifully said, stay safe
I just started training, with only 6 hours in so far. I love your videos. Was just wondering how long it took you to get to this point to do a long cross country.
thx for your kind words. depends on what you mean by "long". The first trip over 3 hrs not going to StL was to New Orleans with another couple in 2012, ~2 yrs / 50 hrs after getting into the Six. Got IFR in 2020 to allow even more "long" trips, and starting doing those almost immediately. this vlog was from Spring Break 2022.
Wow! Airplanes and an Alan Watts lecture in the same video. Gotta be a first.
sometimes you just hear something and can instantly see how it fits into the project, this was one of those
First couple of seconds is Albert Whitted Airport in Florida. Awesome airport to fly to and land at. First time I landed there was yesterday!
Yes it was! One of the coolest APP and DEP we've ever done!
student pilot here. don't know much yet but I know enough to know youre a damn good pilot
thx for the compliment, many have said quite the opposite after watching this video lol :) keep at the training, persistence pays off. Fly safe!
Thank you for this great video! May I ask who was speaking over the video in the beginning?
thank you, Alan Watts. the complete credit is Forget the Money - “A Single Grain of Rice” - Yi Nantiro ft. Alan Watt
nice landing in the frisky wind!
it was a bit sporty that day, just flew the airplane all the way to the ground by the numbers, it worked out.
I always say "Live to Fly another Day" .. Had to scrub a Cross Country Flight due to high winds at destination airports.
Cancelled my fair share of flights on hard VFR days due to crazy winds aloft, no shame in "live to fly another day"!
And some Alan Watts on top! Nice.
Oh yeah! I can't take credit though, the mix credited in my video description is how I got it originally on IG for the TO shot that I published as a Reel. But I love Alan Watts and it really struck a chord with me at the time because if I could get paid to fly & make videos w/shots like this everyday, I would. But at my age, I can't "forget the money" - too much on the table in a great career, so I'll keep you YT-ing for now! Thanks for watching.
@@6ZeroAlpha worked out perfectly
Seems like the correct actions were taken. With high gust landings i use less flaps
would love your perspective in a pa-32 if you have it? I have heard that adage, but in this plane I have discovered closer to max GW, full flaps gives you more forgiveness down low and slow in the flare on the hershey bar wing so you are not so much a brick meeting the runway
I have probably less experience than you with a pa-32 but when I got checked out in one a couple of months ago we were using 25degrees of flaps no where near GW. In the pa28 we would use 1st or second notch of flaps in gusty Santa Ana winds. A faster landing but if the gust shifts gives you an extra buffer of airspeed. I'm gonna look through the POH and see what I can find
Great content in this video.
I would add that if the occupant of the front right seat would wear his shoulder harness, it would greatly increase his chances of survival following an off-airport landing.
It would also allow you to comply with the provisions of 14 CFR 91.107 (a) (2) and (3).
it is a constant struggle to get him to keep it on!
Thanks so much for your video, I’m also based out of Warsaw hanger 18A been waiting for my Cherokee 235 pathfinder engine to finish being rebuilt. Been 5 months but only 2 or 3 weeks left. Yah 😊 we should hook up!
Small.world! I've seen the Dakota on the ramp ASW, beautiful bird. Hope you are back in the sky soon.
Great little clip. More important great lesson and advice to many pilots. Like most pilot I'm sure, The question I get ask most is if it is hard to fly an airplane. My answer, although not meant to be all that funny often makes people think I'm being modest or am joking, when I reply that you can probably train a monkey to fly an airplane since it is really not to difficult. I of course continue to tell them that the difficult part is, and what makes a good pilot is the decision making while flying the airplane. That is the hard part. While many people just nod their head as to say they agree of course, occasionally you get asked to explain what you mean. Why would decision making be difficult, right ? You either go or you don't go. As effort less as that should be, as pilots we know that it proves way more challenging that it seems. But why ? Unfortunately many times pilots who are faced with a situation that requires them to make a decision may become victim of the positive reassurance or reward syndrome. Obviously this is more common and expected in general aviation but I have witnessed on rare occasions this to be true all the way to airline pilots. While we all claim to be super pilots and we always make safety our number one priority we run into those who certainly in their own mind believe they are doing so, but don't. By nature, most pilots have type alpha personalities and can navigate problems efficiently and provide a safe acceptable solution. That said, all to often those same pilots let all those qualities become overshadowed by their own will. When was the last time you turned on the news and heard them talk about exceptional skill of the pilot who cancelled or delayed his flight do to weather. You always here people calling a pilot a great pilot or even a hero after landing a plane that encountered some problem in flight, many times caused by weather, while you never hear anyone say how good the pilot who opted not to fly because of the weather was. Those days when one pilot decided to fly despite adverse weather and shouldn't of while the other pilot delayed or cancelled their flight, and despite the decision not to go was the safer and better one, in the eyes of the unaware the second pilot may appear to be the less skilled pilot. I have been a pilot for many years and assure you that flying a Boeing 767 is as easy if not easier than flying a single engine prop plane but the decision making is still hardest out of everything.
In other words, i believe you demonstrated exceptional pilot skills by the decision you made not to continue on that day and simply delay for a few hours or even a day. Take care and be safe.
thanks for watching and the feedback. In the end it was an easy decision given I had my whole family onboard + someone's else's child that had gone with us. It is the first time I have ever had to cut a flight short due to weather and I would do it again. I remember thinking at one point "I don't want to be 'that pilot' on an episode of AOPA's 'Never Again' ", as you so well pointed out. That is why I wanted to share the story and hopeful educate others to put ego aside and land when necessary. When you run out of outs, only one out left - on the ground. You have to use discipline and execute to the plan, instead of entertaining those "I think we could do..." thoughts. We had briefed plans A,B,C and when plan C wasn't working it was time to land, as you saw. Fly safe!
You live in Warsaw!? I’m in Mentone and it’s awesome to finally find a local pilot via RUclips. I would love to set apart some time to meet you as I’m a student pilot in Goshen at the moment and hopefully start to grow my flying family with you. Let me know if you would be willing to get together and maybe even tell share more of your experiences with me! In the mean time, I most definitely have subscribed!!! Thanks.
thanks!
Flying into unexpected icing really creeps me out.
Wish there was some magic coating you could put on the plane to prevent Ice from being able to adhere and accumulate.
even if there was, likely not STC'd and doesn't change the FIKI status of the plane, or this pilot
What were you able to see in the precip forecast prep? What you described was an inversion with freezing drizzle which is pretty serious so I was curious if that failed to appear in available forecasts or AIRMETs.
Freezing drizzle was not in the forecast or METARs in the area, and no precip showing in Foreflight radar at the time we encountered it. Forecasted ice potential at our planned altitude in TN & KY so I stayed below the ceiling on this whole flight even though we were IFR. In hindsight I believe it was Supercooled Liquid Droplets (SLD) and definitely was not to be toyed with which is why I had to get below the freezing level fast. Fly safe!
@@6ZeroAlpha Thanks. So, to my understanding, SLD means there had to have been a temp inversion and you were flying in sub freezing VMC. I would be curious if that can be seen on a Skew T Log P. I am not looking to judge, just trying to learn how to avoid repeating your scary predicament. Would you mind sharing the date and approx time of the flight so I can study the weather archives? Safe travels!
Frost can bring down a plane. It's the change of air over wing.
agreed, in a addition to the weight of the ice, I failed to mention how it also change the airflow over the wing producing less lift. Anyway you slice it, ice is bad in our little GA planes without FIKI equipment. thanks for watching and the comment.
@6-zero-alpha Do you use the iPad mini or iPad pro?
Pro, 10.5" screen for me old eyes!
Even when tired after experiencing weather you should fill your tanks. Just an extra water in the fuel prevention
what is the reasoning behind this, condensation? we were in a climate controlled hangar overnight.
@@6ZeroAlpha yes condensation but in that case no reason my bad. When tied down outside it’s just to avoid moisture in the tanks.
Awesome day in the life video. My personal minimums would have been to stay an extra day. Or airline home. Do t end up of any safety reports or RUclips channels
thx! Good to have personal minimums and adhere to them always. And it's never good to test them with passengers onboard. I have decent actual IFR time and as a result my minimums have come down over the years, but as described in the video we had reached those and it was time to land. Fly safe!
Weight not really the problem as much as drag and interference with airfoil function destroying lift. Can also cause control surface movement problems. Weigh is very distant 4th in concerns.
yes, several other commenters have pointed this out and I agree. My premise was correct on increasing AOA to maintain same lift, and eventually stalling, but mainly due to changes in airflow over the wing as the cause
We locals pronounce Smyrna "Smuhrna" but otherwise great, informative video! Enjoyed it a lot!
Sorry! I dreadfully took a lot of sh*t for that already, but thanks!
Great flight. You’ve got one engine gauge that’s not reading well. Going back and fourth everywhere.. take a look at the time when you’re planning your last landing and look at your engine readers and you’ll see it. I’m not sure which one as I’ve not flown that Cherokee type.
Was a bit worried for you on the tailwind land btw.. obviously your daughter laid a nice hard s word. Lol. ❤
Yea, fuel sending unit went bad, had it replaced after we got back
Wind was crazy swirly, was the runway we were assigned which aligned with prevailing. Caught wind shear down low as seen, then a tw on low final. Extra long runway so no problem
Fuel sending unit
@@6ZeroAlpha that’s a landing I’m not sure I could manage! Great piloting! How many hours logged in your plane?
Good job. Ciao, Marco.
grazie mate!
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't icing a danger due to the airflow interruption over the wing rather than weight build up?
agreed, I failed to mention that in addition to the weight / change in GC & pitch attitude.
Anyway you slide it, ice is bad in these little GA planes and you never intend to fly in to it.
Correct. Weight has very little to do with icing incidents. Disruption of the nice laminar flow of air over the wing is the issue which reduces the wings lift and increases stall speed. Believe it or not a hp aircraft like this can support way more weight over gross weight in straight and level flight. Takeoff and landings are the main reason for gross weight restrictions and why it would be reckless to try and takeoff over max takeoff weight.
Great video and excellent job Just too bad you couldn't have stayed in Florida
Ha, yeah pesky jobs and school got in the way!
@@6ZeroAlpha I understand I lived in St Petersburg for 8 years and only miss it this time of the year
Great video. You might want to consider moving up from the PA-32 to the PA-46 (Piper Malibu). Incredible difference in performance (pressurized, FIKI, 1700 NM without refueling, serious weather flier). Almost always, I can top the weather at FL250 and most days your passengers are enjoying smooth, clear air. It’s so much of a game changer going over the weather system than trying to pick your way through it or fly under it. Although the operating costs are higher, I bet you would be surprised that they aren’t as bad as you think coming from a Saratoga. Something to think about for your family’s safety and comfort.
Wish my wallet could afford that.
I am just curious in your reasoning on the decision to go lower instead of higher, you were at -2c at 4,000 originally at 6,000ft so you would have been around roughly -4c . You would have been able to escape the icing by going to colder air at approx 11,000. As 12,000 would have put it at -32c and you only need to get below -20c to escape icing. I heard you say in the video you had decided to go low before hand, so I'm just curious as you were closer to 11,000ft being at 6.000ft originally. It is never a bad decision to play it safe, espacially with family on board just curious.
Thx for the question, admittedly I did a poor job of setting this up in the vlog. Forecast that day was freezing 3k up. Ceilings that morning in TN were 7k, PIREPS showing ice @7-9k TN and KY. Plan A was IFR NW heading 6k to try and get on the "backside" and stay below clouds & icing. We are a NA IO-540 at max GW, on the Six platform, experience shows it struggles to climb above 10k. Higher was never an option, especially knowing I had to come back down through all of that to land. Plan B was lower & clear of clouds knowing freezing level was at 3k. We got down to 3.5k, stopped the icing (Plan C) but terrain was now a factor so I knew that lower was no longer an option, and neither was continuing the trip realistically. Plan D into Smyrna was already cued up as NRST in the GPS, including a 180 out of it as taught in PPL and IFR training.
Enjoyed the video was going to ask about going lower instead of climbing out of the ice. Read another comment with same question and good explanation. Seems like good ADM through out the flight to me.
@@6ZeroAlpha great point. Many times in GA aircraft, higher just isn't an option. This is especially true if you have already taken on ice and have to deal with extra weight.
I just went through something similar and have a question. What is the margin of error on the outside air thermometers? My copilot was doing the same thing, dropping altitude until we were "below freezing" but what if it's off by a few degrees?
good question, can't say I have ever calibrated it, but it generally agrees well with ATIS and reported temps aloft. In hindsight watching the footage 100 times during editing, once we were below the clouds and just slightly above freezing, I believe we were dealing with supercooled liquid droplets as it was falling as liquid but freezing on contact with the plane. even a better reason to land and call it a day.
@@6ZeroAlpha the guy I was with was treating the temperature as 100% accurate, and I'm saying to him "dude it's still accumulating, we need to land!". Made me realize we can't cut it so close and say "oh 1 degree, we're good"
yes, actual conditions always dictate course of actions, not what "should be". i've had plenty of flights where the forecast is not actual consitions, so you adapt, overcome, or land.
@@6ZeroAlpha thanks for sharing these videos, very helpful to help learn
@@cpy that's why I do it! You just made my day ❤
Great narrator voice. I’d turn the music down a bit tho during the intro.
Noted!
Good video , however you need to tighten up on your radio procedures. Never use the words ‘take off’ on a clearance . The controller’s clearance was ‘after departure …………’; you read back ‘after take off’
Not good.
Thanks for the tip