Excellent, and using 'accumulation rates' is absolute and necessary; however, it would help to know how long each surface could take before its function degenerates critically after icing up. That may come down to each individual aircraft and indeed each component, eg it's propeller(s) ... but it could be done. How often should one get out the torch and scan for ice at night?
Good question. I would like to know that as well. Honestly, if I’m in something like a 172, at night, in IMC, and it’s freezing temps or close to… I’ve already messed up lol
As a current, but not terribly proficient IFR pilot, I'd like some rules of the "road", just in case I need to fly back to the midwest during the winter. It can stay IFR for days and even weeks on end back there. So, if I need to get out, when do I say go, or no go? Plus 10 centigrade (50F) and below seems to say, stay out of the clouds from about October to May, or even more! I have seen others say zero C to minus 10 C. Does the possibility of icing exist ANYTIME you're in the clouds? If so, a GA pilot like me has no business being in the clouds, unless it's for a very short time....
I hope you get an answer from this channel. Myself I"m just a VFR Private pilot but my understanding is you're only going to get ice if the outside temp at your altitude is close to freezing or below. I've read at some point well below freezing it's not a concern anymore either. So I do agree with your statement in a way, if you're flying IFR and you choose to fly through clouds with no deicing equipment and the temps are hovering around freezing then you're at risk for icing.
TLDR; Yes, the possibility of icing does exist even if temperatures outside are above freezing. Here's Why: Icing is a potential hazard for aircraft that can occur when the temperature outside the aircraft is below freezing and there is moisture present in the air. This can cause the moisture to freeze onto the surface of the aircraft, which can reduce the performance and handling of the aircraft and pose a safety risk. Icing can occur any time an aircraft is flying in clouds or in other conditions where the temperature is below freezing and there is moisture present in the air. However, the risk of icing is generally greater in clouds because clouds are formed by the condensation of water vapor, which means that they are often filled with moisture. When an aircraft flies through a cloud, it can encounter freezing temperatures and moisture, which can lead to icing. That being said, not all clouds are the same, and the risk of icing can vary depending on the specific characteristics of the clouds and the ambient temperature. Some clouds may contain more moisture than others, and some may be at a higher altitude where the temperature is colder. The risk of icing can also be affected by other factors, such as the type of aircraft, the speed and altitude of the aircraft, and the humidity of the air. Also, Charlie watch our video on Go or No Go where our Chief Pilot Liz and Airline Pilot Jarrod discuss this particular topic: ruclips.net/video/ljRvQPh_Dbk/видео.html Your life is the most important part of flying and so always consider the risk to you and your passengers when making this decision. Hope that helps!
The FAA also states the following in its “Aviation Weather Handbook” (FAA-H-8083-28): "An airframe can remain cold (temperature below 0 °C) in a warm (temperature above 0 °C) atmosphere if it is cold-soaked. For example, if an aircraft has been flying in a cold environment, but then descends into warmer temperatures, the airframe does not heat up immediately to the air temperature." Having said that, the temperature of an aircraft’s surfaces (e.g., the wings, propeller, tailplane, etc.) could be below freezing, even though the outside air temperature is not. If visible moisture is present, and if it comes into contact with the aircraft, it could freeze on the airframe.
for you, a personal limit could be always having an exit strategy, including the fuel and terrain clearance performance to execute this, by knowing the freezing level map and where visible moisture is present (lateral extents and ceilings). If you cannot be assured of an exit to 1) clear skies or 2) below freezing level ( + temps), then 180 turn out of conditions that have any significant icing. You should likely allow only trace icing until you have more experience. Someday if you screw up, land at a long, well lit airport using an increase Vref of about 20% right down into the flare. Be sure to do a controllability check at landing speed and config (AP OFF unless you have Autoland ha ha ) prior to starting the approach (3000' AGL would be my minimum), NOT AT OR INSIDE THE FAF!! Plan regular ice checks into your flight, set a timer if you need it, and involve your co-pilot. {me: Canadian turboprop Capt, 6 seasons of icing}
@@kentb4518 My personal minimums are stay out of the clouds when the temperature outside is anywhere near freezing. Period... No exceptions..... Just like Thunderstorms. Stay away from them. Period. No exceptions. Can you get by with less than that? I'm sure you can. But, why take the chance? I don't fly for a living... But, I do plan to stay alive a while longer.
Back in the day in person conferences with knowledgeable speakers. And like seeing these events that were video recorded.
Really interesting. I learned a lot.
Great video
Excellent, and using 'accumulation rates' is absolute and necessary; however, it would help to know how long each surface could take before its function degenerates critically after icing up. That may come down to each individual aircraft and indeed each component, eg it's propeller(s) ... but it could be done. How often should one get out the torch and scan for ice at night?
Good question. I would like to know that as well. Honestly, if I’m in something like a 172, at night, in IMC, and it’s freezing temps or close to… I’ve already messed up lol
As a current, but not terribly proficient IFR pilot, I'd like some rules of the "road", just in case I need to fly back to the midwest during the winter. It can stay IFR for days and even weeks on end back there. So, if I need to get out, when do I say go, or no go? Plus 10 centigrade (50F) and below seems to say, stay out of the clouds from about October to May, or even more! I have seen others say zero C to minus 10 C. Does the possibility of icing exist ANYTIME you're in the clouds? If so, a GA pilot like me has no business being in the clouds, unless it's for a very short time....
I hope you get an answer from this channel. Myself I"m just a VFR Private pilot but my understanding is you're only going to get ice if the outside temp at your altitude is close to freezing or below. I've read at some point well below freezing it's not a concern anymore either. So I do agree with your statement in a way, if you're flying IFR and you choose to fly through clouds with no deicing equipment and the temps are hovering around freezing then you're at risk for icing.
TLDR;
Yes, the possibility of icing does exist even if temperatures outside are above freezing.
Here's Why:
Icing is a potential hazard for aircraft that can occur when the temperature outside the aircraft is below freezing and there is moisture present in the air. This can cause the moisture to freeze onto the surface of the aircraft, which can reduce the performance and handling of the aircraft and pose a safety risk.
Icing can occur any time an aircraft is flying in clouds or in other conditions where the temperature is below freezing and there is moisture present in the air. However, the risk of icing is generally greater in clouds because clouds are formed by the condensation of water vapor, which means that they are often filled with moisture. When an aircraft flies through a cloud, it can encounter freezing temperatures and moisture, which can lead to icing.
That being said, not all clouds are the same, and the risk of icing can vary depending on the specific characteristics of the clouds and the ambient temperature. Some clouds may contain more moisture than others, and some may be at a higher altitude where the temperature is colder. The risk of icing can also be affected by other factors, such as the type of aircraft, the speed and altitude of the aircraft, and the humidity of the air.
Also, Charlie watch our video on Go or No Go where our Chief Pilot Liz and Airline Pilot Jarrod discuss this particular topic: ruclips.net/video/ljRvQPh_Dbk/видео.html
Your life is the most important part of flying and so always consider the risk to you and your passengers when making this decision. Hope that helps!
The FAA also states the following in its “Aviation Weather Handbook” (FAA-H-8083-28): "An airframe can remain cold (temperature below 0 °C) in a warm (temperature above 0 °C) atmosphere if it is cold-soaked. For example, if an aircraft has been flying in a cold environment, but then descends into warmer temperatures, the airframe does not heat up immediately to the air temperature." Having said that, the temperature of an aircraft’s surfaces (e.g., the wings, propeller, tailplane, etc.) could be below freezing, even though the outside air temperature is not. If visible moisture is present, and if it comes into contact with the aircraft, it could freeze on the airframe.
for you, a personal limit could be always having an exit strategy, including the fuel and terrain clearance performance to execute this, by knowing the freezing level map and where visible moisture is present (lateral extents and ceilings). If you cannot be assured of an exit to 1) clear skies or 2) below freezing level ( + temps), then 180 turn out of conditions that have any significant icing. You should likely allow only trace icing until you have more experience. Someday if you screw up, land at a long, well lit airport using an increase Vref of about 20% right down into the flare. Be sure to do a controllability check at landing speed and config (AP OFF unless you have Autoland ha ha ) prior to starting the approach (3000' AGL would be my minimum), NOT AT OR INSIDE THE FAF!! Plan regular ice checks into your flight, set a timer if you need it, and involve your co-pilot. {me: Canadian turboprop Capt, 6 seasons of icing}
@@kentb4518 My personal minimums are stay out of the clouds when the temperature outside is anywhere near freezing. Period... No exceptions..... Just like Thunderstorms. Stay away from them. Period. No exceptions. Can you get by with less than that? I'm sure you can. But, why take the chance? I don't fly for a living... But, I do plan to stay alive a while longer.
this was great