Champion 100520 + Motor Snokel + Natural Gas = THE ULTIMATE BUDGET FULL HOME BACKUP GENERATOR?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- Here's the ultimate evolution of my budget full-home backup generator setup! With the Champion 100520, @USCarburetion's Motor Snorkel, and a Natural Gas Quick Disconnect, I finally have an unlimited runtime backup generator system (assuming Texas doesn't run out of natural gas again). The motor snorkel kit being a tri-fuel conversion kit gives me lots of options in an emergency situation. If natural gas is out, I still can run on propane or gasoline. In an emergency situation, you definitely want as many options as possible as it's hard to predict which fuel sources will be readily available.
A major concern though is would the generator be powerful enough on NG to power all the appliances in the house? In this video, I test my setup against an electric stove and microwave, 4 Ton HVAC unit, gas furnace, and more.
Resources
========================
International Fuel Gas Code Table 402.4 - ecodes.biz/ecodes_support/free... | www.lochinvaru.com/resource/c...
Motor Snorkel Gas Calculation Page - www.uscarb.com/natural-gas-cha...
Generac Sizing Guide (has a lot of useful stuff in 1 document) - www.echogroupinc.com/content/...
Products
========================
Champion 100520 8750/7000W Inverter Generator - amzn.to/3ZFPK2g (price fluctuates throughout the year, generally under $1000 is a good deal)
Motor Snorkel Kit - motorsnorkel.com/product/moto...
Sense Energy Monitoring Kit - amzn.to/3SPr5WK
Chapters
========================
00:00 Introduction
02:25 Calculating Proper Gas Hose Sizing
08:20 Firing up the generator
09:00 Tuning the Load Block
09:40 Manual Power Transfer From Utility to Generator
10:02 Max Load Testing
13:15 4 Ton AC Testing
16:05 Gas Furnace Testing
17:11 Turning off the System
17:40 Tamper-proofing the Quick Disconnect
18:41 Conclusion
Related Videos
========================
Original Champion 100520 Inverter Generator Review & Unboxing - • Champion 100520 Review...
Microair EasyStart Install - • Running a 4 Ton AC on ...
Champion 100520 Motor Snorkel Install - • Motor Snorkel Full Ins...
Champion 100520 on Propane - • Can a 8750W Motor Snor...
Natural Gas Quick Disconnect Hookup - • NATURAL GAS Quick Disc...
Thanks @yourunclefab for giving me the idea to tap in the gas line right after the meter.
#backupgenerator #prepping #naturalgas #generator 
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1:25 Great video, but I think that during a power outage, the last thing you need to worry about is mowing your grass ! I only wish I had both my natural gas and electrical box so close to each other. Mine are both on opposites sides of the house, and gas is right next to the master bedroom. I will have to run a very long pipe or big hose 75 feet to get it in the ideal spot near the breaker box.
This video is really helpful, thank you. These generators recently went on sale for ~800 bucks and lots of people will want to do a similar setup and you pretty much documented everything.
Great job - I'm putting on a Motor snorkel converstion on This weekend and this really, really helps me get a vision! 😀
Lots of details! Glad somebody covered it! You might be missing some power because of the resistance of the long cord too though.
Thank you for this video ❤
The gas hose sizing chart was some I never considered 🤯
I was wanting to tie into a gas line that was way to small 😬
Glad this was helpful for you! Hope you are able to work out your install!
Awesome video. Thanks for posting. So sorry to see your gas meter is not in your backyard.
Fantastic video man! I'm suprised you don't have more subscribers...
Very helpful. You tested the key elements that I will be dealing with and explained it well. I’ll need to get a phone app like yours. Best to you.
Thanks!
What app is this?
do you have a soft start? Hard start on AC?
Nice bro I have almost the same setup everything quick connect, what I like it’s how you check on your phone all the watts being use
Yeah - the sense app is great! Really helped with sizing our my generator. Thanks for watching buddy!
Lots of good info, great video.
Great video, very good information! Thanks.....
Well, I I finally found a DIY'r that KNOWS his stuff; and KNOWS how to show us HOW to do it. For I am in the doing just what you did today. And what you showed me was awesome and great informative. Thank you kind Sir. You are truly a "Cut" above.
Yep........He still need to build A Generator Shed from the Weather and Carbon monoxide poison Away from the House 🏡
So excellent🎯👏🏼
EXCELLENT DEMONSTRATION VIDEO THAT A GENERATOR CAN JUST ABOUT RUN LOADS LIKE A SOLAR INVERTER SYSTEM CAN DO . MAYBE IN THE FUTURE , YOU MAY TRY INSTALLING AND DEMONSTRATION A SIZABLE SOLAR SYSTEM . MAY THE GENERATOR BE WITH YOU .🤗
Thank you! I would love to do solar at some point! Being able to be 100% off grid and energy independent is a dream of mine. My wishlist setup is a 7kW solar system with a 10-20kWh battery. I think that could meet my energy usage needs completely. Unfortunately, that setup costs around $30k. I'm hoping battery and solar prices go down more in the coming years. If I do end up getting solar, I will sure document my process. Thanks for the comments and suggestion! ❤
@@jonathanDIYs YOU CAN GO DIY AND BUY YOUR OWN EQUIPMENT TO SET UP BUT IT TAKES TIME , MONEY , EFFORT AND SOME ELECTRICAL KNOWLEDGE WITHOUT THE MIDDLE MAN TO GET IT LIKE YOU WANT IT . CHECK OUT MY DIY SOLAR VIDEOS , HIT LIKE , LEAVE A COMMENT AND SUBSCRIBE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY . SPRING STORMS & SUMMER HURRICANE SEASON ARE APPROACHING AND WE PREPPERS MUST GET READY . MAY THE SOLAR BE WITH YOU .🤗🤗
well done!
10:48 Never run the microwave when empty. A cup or bowl of water is something to heat.
Excellent video. It would be interesting to see how the generator capacity changed with a short 3/4" gas hose, say just long enough to reach inside your gate. It would show how much the capacity loss relates to hose length and how much to the natural gas fuel. 2) That 80' of 8/4 SOOW cord must have been expensive: ± $400, plus the cost of the long gas hose. Thank you for answering several practical questions.
Thank you. I don't think I have the proper testing equipment (like a bunch of space heaters) to apply incremental load up to the max out point, but that would be a cool idea.
I got the 80' of cord for approximately $200 back in 2021. Prices keep jumping up rapidly.
Thank you that was very informative
A thorough explanation of all the factors involved in sizing gas and electrical connections to get it operational. I understand your reasoning in having the generator such a long distance from your connections but do point out you are significantly diminishing the effective power you are able to get out of your generator.
I fortunately was able to meet all my power needs even with the long distance between the generator and the NG supply. Someday, I might do a comparison video between a long hose and a short hose. The only thing I need is some reliable way to put constant load and ramp it up in incrementally so I can accurately measure if there are actual differences in power between the hose lengths. Thanks for commenting!
For a guy with
Thanks for the vote of confidence! I wish I had an oscilloscope. Was yours too expensive? I'd be interested in getting one and shooting a video for that if it isn't too expensive. Thanks again for the kind words!
Cool.Nice setup. Looks like you're all good to go!
I bought a transfer switch. Wonder if I should of went with a interlock switch
Thanks! I highly recommend the transfer switch. I was able to set mine up myself for about $200-300 or you can get an electrician to do it for about $500-1000. It's actually pretty straight forward and simple, but I do know I'm more of the adventurous type. If you ever have any questions, I'd be happy to share more details.
A transfer switch is the way to go. Especially an automatic transfer switch that is wired to remote start the generator. That way, if the power goes out while you are away from home, your generator will start and keep your refrigerator and freezer running. However, an automatic transfer switch and remote start setup is more expensive to buy and install.
@Johnathan Great video, thorough and thoughtful on the key details like hose sizing, basic safety, etc. I have a very similar setup as you -- full interlock setup, Champion 7K/9K Generator, etc., except my natural gas meter is ~55 ft from the pad where I currently put my generator which is secured just inside my privacy fence (keeping it out of view and a bit safer behind the fence (and changed to the Post if I like).
Where did you get your hoses from on a discounted rate.?
I was thinking for a while I'd have iron pipe installed since it's down the same wall of my house, but then I got to thinking that it will have some complexities routing around my electrical mains (pipe coming up from underground), etc. and that might be more trouble than it's worth for 1-2 times per year emergency use! So now I'm leaning much more towards an install just like yours with a flexible hose as the best way to go (path of least resistance) and I can take the hose with me in the future, etc. . . .
Hi @CajunCoding - thanks for commenting. I got the hoses from a surplus supplies store on ebay. I don't think there is any more in stock right now, but if you put a saved search in ebay and enable email alerts, you probably could snag one within a few weeks or months. Here's the search terms I used: "mb sturgis 3/4", "3/4 natural gas hose", "3/4 ng hose", "3/4 propane hose", "accuflex 3/4 hose"
Sometimes when people are listing it, they only list the model number or the brand and not that it is for natural gas or a propane hose, so the specific keywords sometimes help you find hidden gems. I think that's how I got the hoses for half the regular price. Good luck getting some yourself! I think a hose is a smart idea for the few times that you would need it. :)
My Firman Tri-Fuel has a 439cc engine. I use a 1/2" x 24' NG line which is connected to the valve at my back porch. My meter is near the front of the house similar to yours. I have natural gas for the cooktop, water heater, furnace & dryer. Any electrical device that creates heat and the microwave will use up your wattage. The stats on your EasyStart are similar to mine.
Are you able to use your cooktop or water heater while the generator is running?
@@julietlaney2776 I don't have any problems with my NG appliances while running the generator.
I have a similar setup as yours but I use a Wen GN625i inverter($700) with a Motor Snorkel. It has less power than yours but has the 240v 30 amp receptacle. It's loud so at night I use a quiet inverter, Wen 56203i(120v) to run the necessities including the furnace or a window unit. I use a 15Amp Household to L14-30 adapter so I can still use my generator inlet and it powers both sides of the breaker panel. You just have to be careful not to turn on any breakers to 240v appliances.
hi Joe, that's a pretty cool setup. How often do you get blackouts in your area? I've kept my generator off at night during blackouts, but having a smaller, quieter backup solutions seems like a great idea.
@@jonathanDIYs I live in East Texas so the weathers not too bad. We lose power about once a year. I did lose power for 3 days during the bad cold/snow storm, that's what led to this. Wasn't gonna go through that again.
@@joehortman832 Same here. 2 days no power, was going to be ready next time... I had it "good", there were some people out of power for a full week in central Texas.
Look into an Easy Start capacitor system for your AC system. it will take the needed amps to start your air conditioner down to the 20 - 30 amp range so it can be started by a generator without tripping breakers or dimming lights. It too 5 ton AC unit at start up from 83 amps to 31.
Hi Scott, I did add an easy start to my AC system - you can check that video out here - ruclips.net/video/2_VcUyg5V7w/видео.html. I saw my starting amps down from 80s to 30s as well. Thanks for commenting!
@@jonathanDIYsBro......I just Uploaded my Final Demo and Show everyone How I built my Ply-wood muffler silencer..
.if you want to See
@@Honestandtruth great!
Nice detailed explanation of your project requirements in Texas and the solution. Did you have any load balancing issues with the two legs of 120 volts feed different house circuits? Example, if one side of the 120 legs became over loaded prior to the other you may not achieve max power from both circuits. -Bill B.
Hi Bill,
Good question! I generally didn't have any load balancing issues in the house circuits. My base electricity usage at the house was around 700 watts. I measured around 200-300 watts on L1 and 300-400 watts on L2. This amount of load was trivial. The oven and HVAC drew power on both L1 and L2 so that was balanced too. The only exception to balanced load was the microwave which put 1,800 watts on a single leg.
Thanks for commenting and for this question!
Coming off the snorkle, what do you have? Do you have a double threaded adapter to a 90 degree coupling to another double threaded to the quick disconnect? Trying to see how you have all that connected as it has changed since your other video. This is the exact set up I intend to use. Thank you for any info!
Thanks for the video. About how long was your hose run? I have a similar set up and was concerned about getting enough gas flow to my generator.
My hose is 80ft if I can remember correctly. I cover all the calculations and length in the video.
Yes do the spreadsheet for us out
I always thought the reason manufactures de-rate propane was because of the orifice size in their jet. It isn't necessarily calibrated to deliver the amount of fuel for the rated output of the generator. A load block can be adjusted to give rated output at rated load.
Hi Roy, thanks for commenting! From my research, I believe it has more to do with engine characteristics than orifice size. Natural gas has a higher octane rating (it requires more compression to burn efficiently) than gasoline. Gasoline is usually around 87 while natural gas is 130 octane. Gasoline engines are usually tuned to provide a compression ratio of 8:1 - 12:1 while Natural gas burns most efficiently at compression ratios from 13:1-14:1. I think it is these differences that reduce the power when switching from gasoline to NG. This is where the 10-20% lower HP comes into play and subsequent lower wattage produced.
Sources if you're interested in reading more:
grenergy-us.com/pages/q-a-i-was-told-propane-and-natural-gas-produces-less-power-than-gasoline-is-this-true
www.gason.eu/documents/get_doc/714#:~:text=Finally%2C%20CNG%20has%20a%20high,path%20to%20higher%20thermal%20efficiency.
@@jonathanDIYs Thanks for the explanation and references!
I'd be curious to see the votage sag/frequency espcially when you're loading it up all the way. Also be careful on AC startup. The motor inrush is quite large. The microwave and oven are nice soft easy straight loads compared to compressors/electic motors. Look into a soft start for the AC if you plan to use.
Thanks for your comments! I already have a soft start for my AC. I have a video where I set that up. Voltage and frequency seems to stay pretty constant. With the inverter type generator, it seems to either be correct or turn itself off. I didn't seem to notice much sag.
Great video! Confirms what I wanted to know- Can you use this to run AC in Texas haha. I got a quote for a standby generator fo 11,000, I think I'll go with this!
How many ton AC unit do you have? If it's small enough, you definitely can run it off a portable generator!
Fantastic video! One question how many amp is your plug to your breaker panel?
My connector and wire is rated for 30 amps so I got a 30 amp breaker to match and properly protect the connector or wire from overheating. Thanks for commenting and thanks for your question!
thanks for the videos on the generator setup, looking to get the micro air soft start for my 4 ton trane AC so i can run my tri fuel generator to the house. How has it been after a year of use? I hear some mixed opinions on the soft start, some say" it kills the compressor over time"
I've had 0 issues with it, I don't even notice it is there. My compressor goes on and off 50-100 times a day, I have had no issues with this.
You need to do a test in the winter to see if your gas meter is big enough to handle the load of the generator to see if there enough natural gas to run your hot water heater and the furnace, I heard stories that pilot lights were going out on hot water heaters because the meter was too small.
Honestly, living in Texas... I set up trifuel and not convert solely to NG because I don't really trust that I'll have NG when I need it. The freeze in 2021, NG was also insufficient - it wasn't even enough to run my tankless water heater as the power came back on. Unfortunately, the power plants here mostly run NG. When there is not enough power in Texas, chances are it could be NG shortage as well. I will be switching between propane, NG and gasoline when the power goes out. If I had more land, I definitely would be considering to have my own propane tank buried in the backyard.
My emergency setup consists of a 20 pound propane tank, 10 gallons of gasoline and the natural gas connection that I show. For an extended outage, if there wasn't NG, I would probably ration out the generator usage to 4-6 hours a day. I think I can get it to last a week. Gotta work with what you have. :)
@@jonathanDIYs Jealous, here in Michigan we are single digits and below 0 at night, my furnace is running a lot right now seems as soon as it shuts off a few minutes later it’s right back on. I want to run a NG generator someday but my meter is in front of the house and I back feed through my garage all the way in my backyard, just propane for now.
@@no1but24 20-40 here.. thankfully the utilities have kept up. Haven't had to pull the generator out this year yet. Hope I won't have to! Good luck with your setup. If it is as long as it sounds, you might need 1 inch diameter pipe or so. When I was setting it up, I did the research into all the calculations for it. I don't remember everything, but I think I cover it roughly in the video.
Hi Jonathan, nice video, I'm also in Texas in Austin, where are you located in Texas?
That's awesome! I'm in Round Rock myself.
I probably missed it. What size is your generator? Great video thank you for posting.
@@rjzlwop3153 7000W running/8750W starting for gasoline. On propane and NG, you can expect a small performance dip. Champion 100520 inverter generator.
Great video. What power meter are you using? I have the same setup using a Firman tri-fuel but I don't have a meter to watch my loads.
Hi TheSeaweed64! Thanks! I am using the Sense power meter - amzn.to/3WEfcXe. It was significantly cheaper when I got it, not sure if I would recommend it at the current price. If I was to do this again, I might try the Emporia - amzn.to/3LJf3vm. Big disclaimer, I never used the emporia so it is hard for me to vouch for whether it is any good or not.
Jonathan, I'm wondering if you've given any thought to the harm converting a generator to natural that wasn't designed for that fuel will cause. I mention this because I recently purchased the same generator and have done considerable research on converting to natural gas. I'm finding that firstly Champion will void your warranty and secondly that generators that are designed to run natural gas and propane are built with hardened intake valves and seats. Generators designed to run gasoline do not have hardened intake valves and seats because the atomizing of the liquid fuel over the valves and seats cools them. The result of using gaseous fuels will result in what is called "seat recession". The valves overheat and breakdown and as the seats overheat they are driven further into the base metal they are mounted in. After learning this I can understand why Champion will not honor their warranty after conversion. If you have any ideas on this topic I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks, Gerry
Hi Gerry, thanks for reaching out and asking this really good question.
The first thing I must mention is that I am in no way an authoritative source for this particular question. My generator is only 2 years old and I have run my generator on propane and natural gas for only about 5-10 hours. You'll probably need to check in with me in 10 years to see if I need to eat my words or if my research and opinion turned out to be right.
That disclaimer aside, I have heard concerns about the engine running hotter than normal and decided to proceed despite those risks. Here are my main reasons.
#1. Motor Snorkel, Nash Fuel, and several other competitors have sold thousands of these conversion kits since the 90s. After doing this for 20-30 years, if this was a widespread issue, I would imagine hearing more news about generators failing due to conversion. I have not heard of a personal story of a motor being damaged due to conversion from gas to propane or NG (I would definitely be very interested to hear someone with this experience). Based off of this, I deemed it safe enough to try.
#2. The likelihood of me using the 3 year warranty is pretty low. After the originally break-in period, the likelihood of me sending the generator back in for warranty repairs is very low. The terms of the warranty excludes normal wear and tear, so it's going to be pretty tough to prove that it is Champion's issue. On top of that, the fact that "transportation charges on product submitted for repair or replacement under this warranty are the sole responsibility of the purchaser" makes it even less of an incentive to use the warranty. Unless the inverter or engine is faulty, it's going to be cheaper for me to have certain things serviced by local repair person out of warranty than to ship it to Champion and then back. The warranty is probably most useful for the first 5 hour break-in period when you find a real manufacturer defect. After that, most issues will fall under the warranty exclusions of normal wear.
#3. Motor snorkel does address NG/propane running hot. They recommend in the manual to run the alternative fuel with as lean a mixture as possible to keep the engine running cool. I did tune my gas mixture to follow this. I believe I can set it at a level which keeps the engine cool enough to prevent damage from happening.
I would recommend going for 20-50 hours on the engine as a break-in period. If there were any warranty issues, they would show up within that timeframe. After that, I would proceed with the conversion. I just don't see enough to back up the claim that conversions break generators at a higher rate than running solely on gasoline. We have to remember to balance any claims we hear about conversions damaging engines with the fact that generators that run on only gasoline still end up failing too. I think proper maintenance and care is the most critical that would prevent issues from happening with either a tri-fuel converted generator or a standard gasoline generator.
Hope this helps! I'll be sure to report if the motor snorkel and running on propane or NG damages my engine in any way!
@@jonathanDIYs Jonathan, Thanks for your thoughtful detailed reply. I'll take your advice and run an extended break-in before diving into conversion. Gerry
Champion has posted a lot of videos which show how to replace things like.... Co modules.... Inverter modules....etc. My take on this is if you have a warranty failures are going to ship you a new part and you install it according to their video. Because as pointed out above, the shipping cost to ship bigger generator is going to be very expensive... And that's after you've managed to crate it up......mine was $200 shipping when I bought it . And it was already boxed and protected properly.
Where did you find that long of a hose, I am struggling to find 50 feet of 3/4 inch. I only found 1 on amazon for almost 200 dollars? Thanks.
Yeah, that's the going price. I bought mine from a supply surplus store on eBay. If you keep searching, you might be able to snag one after a few weeks. I set up an alert on a few keywords and found all of mine for approximately $150 for 80 feet. I joined 3 20-30 feet 3/4 inch hoses together. Hope you find what you're looking for!
excellent video . i was wondering the same thing about if you were able to run the ng furnace and the gen at the same time...can you tell me whats the size of your ng meter? that woukd have a lot to do with how many btu's you can run safely..im on the fence between converting my dual fuel firman into a tri fuel, or buying the champion tri fuel.. but the champion comes with 1/2 ng hose..so im wondering if thats a big enough hose..
Alright, so I had to take some time to reply to this because I needed to get back to the computer and look up the code book again for this.
So my gas meter has a 1 inch pipe coming out of it. I have a standard 7wc pressure regulator before the pipe, it doesn't run 2 psig, so we could use the IFGC Table 402.4 chart. The way these things work is that the fuel capacity is constrained by the smallest diameter upstream. My gas meter is connected to a tee 1" from the gas meter, 1 1/4" to the house and 3/4" to the service port which I added the quick disconnect to. So just because my house has a 1 1/4" pipe going into it doesn't mean I am getting any more capacity than the 1" coming out of the meter. So looking back at the Table 402.4 chart I referenced in the video and the description, at 0.3" WC pressure drop, we're starting off with a capacity of 514 CFH even if the pipe had a 10 feet length from the meter. My generator takes approximately 130CFH and the furnace is 80,000 BTU which for the purposes of calculation, we can round to needing 80CFH. My tankless hot water heater is actually the biggest consumer at 199,900 BTU (let's say 200CFH). This leaves us with drawing a total of 410CFH max excluding my gas stove top and my gas fireplace (which is more decorative than heat providing). At 514CFH capacity coming in from the meter, we actually have enough to run the generator, the furnace, and the hot water heater at the same time assuming the natural gas company isn't having a shortage.
So to answer about why the champion has a 1/2NG hose, it's a matter of length. If you look on the chart again, we can see a 1/2" diameter hose can provide 131CFH if it is 10ft or shorter. If you're providing the necessary capacity to the hose, let's say 3/4" for a 30ft run from the meter which would provide 151CFH. It should be safe at that point to step down from 3/4" to the 1/2" hose for the last bit. Please look at table 402.4(1)... Hope my explanation isn't too confusing. I find it helpful to have the table open while I'm looking at the sizing.
Regarding picking generators, one thing I look at is the THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) rating. This measures how perfect the AC sine wave is, the more perfect sine wave, the better it is for electronics. This steered me to the inverter generator because I didn't want to worry about low quality electricity for all the computers and electronics I had. My house was built recently and everything is "smart"... my HVAC and oven is even connected to wifi - so I didn't want to risk damaging all these sensitive electronics. Wish you the best for figuring out whether to get something new or convert the duel fuel. Thanks for commenting!
@@jonathanDIYs THANKS a really informative post. thanks for putting in all that time..
The more I research and look into this, the less I feel confident about the details that I shared with you originally. Let me leave you with at least official info that would put you on the right track:
1. There are two standard methods of determining pipe sizing - longest length or the branch method. If you want to properly size everything, use one of those methods.
2. From US carburator (www.uscarb.com/natural-gas-chart.htm):
If the hook-up hose is kept to 6' or less, the use of a 1/2" hook-up hose and quick disconnect coupler for up to 18hp engines is acceptable. The point is to have the correct size pipe up to the shut off valve for the generator. It is like would be necessary if using an electrical appliance on a very long extension cord. The extension cord may be quite large but the wire on the appliance may be quite a bit smaller. The same principles apply. Having a sufficient amount of gas at the shut off and QDC to feed the generator is the key.
As I'm not an expert on this, I rather cite a knowledgeable source and let them be responsible for the validity of their statement. These two pieces should be more accurate than my first stab at explanation.
Thanks for asking, it really does help me understand these things better as I dive into the research!
Jonathan….do you know how much TOTAL of a btu load that regulator delivers? The chart you reference is great but you are missing a key point. In actuality, the service line coming into your house pre-regulator is pressurized to 10 psi…but you have a standard residential regulator which is a 4 ounce regulator with a 7 inch water column.
I am currently running NG on a motor snorkel conversion kit on my WEN 3800watt inverter. Have a 30ah outlet with 30ah breaker. Since I have NG I am able to run all the lights, refrigerator, router, TVs, and 8000btu portable a/c and also furnace in the winter. But now I want to upgrade my genny to run the 5ton a/c. I will be buying and installing the micro air easy soft start. Then will upgrade the genny to more watts. My question is, Are you using a 30ah outlet next to the breaker box with 30ah cords running your A/C and other items in the house off that genny and NG?
Thanks for the video great info.
Hi, thanks for commenting! Yes, I am running my 4ton AC off of my inverter generator which is plugged into the main load center through a 30 Amp generator inlet port and a manual interlock transfer switch. There is a chance you might have to upgrade to a 50 amp for a 5 ton AC. It's hard to tell until you try it out because it is surge power and not sustained so the quick surge to startup might be able to go over the 30a equipment without tripping the breaker. Hope you have a successful install and setup!
@@jonathanDIYs
I really appreciate your response. If I can run it on a 30ah outlet will save me time and money. The worse that could happen it doesn’t work. I really appreciate the video and info. You are the only one Ive come across that is similar to my situation and wondered if it would work. Thanks again and will keep you updated.
Where did you buy the natural gas line hose and is it a full flow hose?
I got mine from a surplus supplies store. It's a MB Sturgis LP & Natural Gas Hose Assy. Accuflex 478-12. I believe it is full flow hose.
Any concerns drawing 39 amps through the 30 amp connector on the gen?
No issues with that as long as it is not sustained. Inrush is normal in circuits. Regularly, the AC has 70-80 startup amps even though it runs through a 40 amp breaker. Thanks for commenting!
I have a Sense Flex, and Sense CS mentioned that they do not have that functionality. Curious to see how you wired up your Sense clamps to monitor your generator amp usage?
Hi Arturo, you just have to wrap the CT around both the main input wire and the generator inlet port wire. Make sure to have both wires running in the same direction and it should work to give you relatively accurate usage of both systems. I'll try to take a picture or film it next time I'm working on my electric panel. Hope that helps!
Thanks for the tip@@jonathanDIYs . I saw what you meant on the surge protector installation video. I ended up rerouting my clamps similarly to yours.
@@ArturoPalaciosJr Awesome! Glad you were able to figure it out!
What happens if the generator cannot handle the large A/C load? Will the generator just stall or trip a circuit breaker or, much worse, will the failed startup damage the A/C unit? Thank you.
The breaker on the generator should be sized to trip before stalling the generator. In general, nothing bad should happen. I would be more worried for electronic equipment. A failed startup will result in an undervoltage and potentially the frequency of the electricity to be off. Both of these situations should be ok to the A/C for a short period of time.
@jonathanDIYs I bought a champion generator 15kw/12kw I'm guessing when I switch to natural gas it will drop it to 10kw or 9 kw. Do you kno any ways of how I can clean the "dirty power" to add an inverter to it simce i did not buy the invertor type? Or will the home breaker protect small appliances?
I have the WEN 875i with the same trie-fuel kit. It works fine. I haven’t measured the output to see the wattage under load. I also haven’t tried to start my AC on it. I’ll have to give it a shot now.
Awesome! Hope you can get everything running in your house with it!
Yeah, it won’t run everything, just the critical loads (furnace fans and fridges during the winter).
Looks like I am also getting 4900 to 5000 watts. I was expecting closer to 5500. I am wondering if it’s more of a limitation of the conversion kit (snorkel itself) or the generator.
I have a 35ft 3/4 hose with 2PSI and a step down regulator to 7-11” of WC. I don’t believe it’s your gas supply, I believe it’s generator or snorkel limiting. Keep in mind all that gas we are supplying in the line has to go through that tiny little hose that motor snorkel provides and then has to go through the tiny Venturi on the carb as well.
Basically you get 550 watts per horsepower. The general rule of thumb is, generator running wattage divided by 550 roughly equals engine horsepower. BTW, you are going to get voltage drop running such a long extension cord. It's going to stress the generator.
Thanks for commenting and sharing the info about how many watts per horsepower. The extension cord is large enough gauge to handle the amount of amps the generator pushes out without any significant drop in voltage. The last time I had this run, I was still getting more than 115 volts measured from my Sense power meter. I'll measure my voltage at the generator next time and at one of my outlets and see if it is greater than the 3% max VD that is typically allowed.
How did you get your sense to work on generator power?
You can run the generator power wires in the same direction as the main power cables and put the current sensor clamp around both the main power cable and the generator power. As they are never run at the same time, they won't ever interfere with each other. I'll try to shoot a video on that one of these days when it isn't over 100 degrees outside. BTW, sense is on sale for prime day - grab one while you can! amzn.to/3NQJoZC
I bought the Same Champion inverter Generator 100520 and Converted to N G and Built a Shed for it and Reduced Noise Level to 64 db at 12 ft. I'm still finding Way To Reduce more noise to 55 decibels...... Still working on it
That's awesome! What materials are you using? I heard you want to use sound deadening foam but you also want to make sure it is heat rated. Would love to know about your setup some more.
@@jonathanDIYs I only use An Accustic foam from Amazon and Plywood but Must closed ALL Opening and must be double layer of wall To Be more Sound proof.
..... You can just look at the house Walls at your house and determine from there.
You are very Smart guy Already. Your English is Wayyyyyy Better than moi...👍👍
@@jonathanDIYs Almost done with my Project. Will do a Short video to Upload... I don't really do for Any rating. Just a few videos about this Sounds Reductions and a Generator Shed
@@Honestandtruth your English is pretty good. Does the foam melt? A short video would be cool, I'd watch it!
@@jonathanDIYs Most materials are Heat -Resistance in the Shed. In the Extension Compartment of Muffler Noise Reduction Flame and Heat -Resistance ...
Which easy start brand did you use for your AC? Any specifications?
@@cesarmichael1975 check my other video out - all the details are in the video or the description ruclips.net/video/2_VcUyg5V7w/видео.htmlsi=Qiapx1QI83cWR6Fr
Awesome videos. Plan on doing exactly this. Do you think the ez start for the AC is necessary?
Yes absolutely. Be sure to get the correct soft starter. If u have a 4ton ac get soft starter for 5ton. Soft starter only come 1,3,5ton. My ac 39.7amps 240v brand new unit. Emerson soft starter 13amps/240v. Using wen 12000starting/8000running gas. Starts ac while house is active. Minus dishwasher, washer,dryer,microwave. I running 4000watts to operate 2refriderators,deep freezer,wine fridge,ceiling fans,ac. Without ac running I barely using 500watts. I have a reliance watt meter.
It was absolutely necessary for me. If you look at one of my first videos I posted when I just got the generator, I tried to start the AC and it ended up tripping the breaker on the generator and I lost all power. @herewegoagain4041 shares some great advice.
@@jonathanDIYs for some weird reason my 4 ton unit is in a 20a breaker? Fingers crossed i don't need to spend another 350 on the micro air
@@blakecorkill my first gut reaction is "that don't seem right..." Hope it pans out for you... I honestly didn't like taking apart my AC and wiring everything there either for the Easystart. Worrying about life-threatening voltage in the AC (the capacitor) is not my favorite way to spend a Saturday. I would agree with you that it would be great if you didn't have to add that.
@@jonathanDIYs i bet it's not a 4 ton... Even though i looked up the model# and that's what the Lenox site said.
How are you able to read the voltage from your phone? Thanks....
I installed a sense power reader. You put these clamps on your wires coming in to read the amps and something in a breaker to read the voltage.
How did your setup turn out for hurricane beryl? If you lost power, for how long and what you were able to run?
Thanks
Hurricane Beryl fortunately missed me (I am in Austin, TX). Unfortunately, I couldn't stress test the system in a multi-day blackout situation.
@@jonathanDIYs Thats good to hear, you have a great setup and feel confident it will all work when needed.
Hey, thanks for this video. Could you please tell me what parts were used to convert the 1/2 inlet for natural gas to the 3/4 hose at the generator. Im in this process and cant find that part thanks...
Hi Terrance, without seeing your exact setup, I'm afraid I may tell you the wrong part. You might be able to get away with a 3/4 inch female NPT to 1/2 inch adapter: amzn.to/3LJeGks. However, you might have a better time just going to your local hardware store with the 2 different parts and trying different things out in the pipe fitting section for 10-20 minutes. I can't tell you how much time I've wasted in that aisle learning about all the different fittings - there are so many! Wish you success on your setup!
Thanks so much for your reply. I think this will work. If not Amazon has easy returns. Thanks again I appreciate it.
Jonathan: if your generator stops running does natural gas continue to flow thus causing a hazardous situation?
Hi @user-rw8rh6uh9z - Great question! No, if the generator stops running, natural gas does not flow because of the regulator that is included with the motor snorkel. Unless the generator is providing suction, the regulator stops the flow of gas. This is why I have to push the primer button a few times to get it started because of this exact safety feature. Thanks for your question and thanks for commenting!
Does the gas shut off automatically if the engine dies?
Yes - the regulator prevents any NG from coming out unless there is a vacuum from the engine.
I’m only at the beginning but I’m going to tell you, that long cord and gas line is a serious power loss. Gas line loosing btu’s and IR drop on extension line has to effect final power factor.
The gauge of the wire is thick enough for the amount of power I'm pushing to the house. I don't read any significant amount of voltage drop with my setup and I sized the natural gas hose to be large enough to at least run the generator on its own without other gas appliances. If you watched to the end, you'll see I reached all my goals for this system.
do you need a separate regulator to run on natural gas?
The only regular you need when running on natural gas is the one that comes with the motor snorkel for MOST homes that feed the standard 7" WC pressure. You have to do the research for your home to determine if you are getting standard natural gas feed. The regular that comes with the Motor Snorkel is something like the: Century C-KN regular www.centuryfuelproducts.com/media/Forms/CENTURY_MODEL_KN_SERIES_SPEC.pdf
Well, that is all great, but have you tried to listen to your AM radio with this generator on? Can you say RFI ?
someone else had the same exact comment - can't say that I listen to AM radio regularly... Thanks for commenting!
When you live in the mountains you often can only recieve AM. It is also used for communications like Ham Radio, etc. Where I live there is no cell phone coverage. Broadband is by satellite only. We use landlines for mission critical connections.
@@jmoss99 very important use case! Thanks for sharing. I never had to even consider that, very cool to learn what other scenarios people need to use the generator for.
What device app didnu use to measure load?
That is the Sense app - amzn.to/3SdlHxB I got it when it was cheaper and on sale. Unfortunately, it went up in price a lot.
How is this generator with your Central Heating AND the electric oven at the same time?
I have natural gas heating. I would be concerned if I have enough BTUs of natural gas to run both at the same time if I was running the generator off of natural gas. I think in an emergency situation, I can run one thing at a time with no issue. Next time I have my generator hooked up to natural gas, I'll give it a try to run both central heat and the oven and see if my generator would choke out. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. Thanks for commenting and asking!
@@jonchanvlogs yes, exactly my point. I bought this same generator (which arrives tomorrow) and bought the Tri-Fuel kit from NashFuels. I have gas stove, gas clothes dryer, gas water heater, and gas central heating and am wondering about running this generator on a low flow / low pressure natural gas while also under a good electrical load.
@@jasonhildebrand1574 so if you're interested in running everything at once, you have to do proper gas pipe sizing calculations. I skipped that as this is solely for emergencies and as long as I can run 1 thing at a time, I'm happy. Plumbers have a pretty standardized method called Total Length branch sizing which tells you what diameter pipes you need for your system. I found this video a fairly good explanation on this: ruclips.net/video/zjJXVGjs0hQ/видео.htmlsi=ZpyIOCSD7Gvp3dlI Do note that larger diameter pipes are more expensive.
Let me know how the nashfuel goes. I avoided it because I heard the thick block can interfere with regular operations. The motor snorkel was a lot thinner.
Someone said to add up all the cfm and compare them to your gas meter to see if it has enough capacity. Otherwise, you have to contact the utility company to get a bigger one. Does anybody know how this process work if I need a bigger meter? Does the utility company replace it for free? Or do they sell it to you and you have to get a plumber to replace it? Thanks!
I don't think they would allow a plumber to touch the meter. Depends on the gas company, some are able to increase the pressure and just install regulators on all the devices to allow more gas using the same pipes forgoing the need to replace the meter. You gotta check with your local utility company.
@@jonathanDIYs sorry. Yes that’s what I meant. Install a new regulator for the house.
who configured the electric box
I did the generator inlet port myself. I installed it using a backfeed breaker with a manual interlock transfer switch. This is the cheapest way to do it that is still compliant to electrical code.
The whole reason for the motor snorkel conversion is to avoid to extra cost of buying a tri fuel generator right? seems to be from what im seeing. maybe there's a little more
You also get more options... As far as I know, they don't really make too many inverter generators that are trifuel. I wanted to have an inverter generator because it outputs cleaner electricity measured in THD total harmonic distortion. Inverter generators are as low as 3-5% while regular generators can be 30-40%. The lower THD is better for electronics and LED lights. You won't get flickering and UPSes will charge properly.
@@jonathanDIYs I like that as well. I don't see many tri fuel inverters either. The ones i do see seem to be around 500 more than what you have. I''d probably do what you did cept with a shed for the generator since i have more space. I like your videos, they've given me many ideas. thx
@@Gripmaster3000 awesome, glad you found it helpful. I dunno how, but the cheapest I saw this generator sell for was a bit under 700 on Amazon. I use camelcamelcamel.com to track prices and buy when it is low. You can set up trifuel with this setup for roughly $1100-1200 regularly and maybe even under $1000 if it ever dips to under $700 again. Hope you have fun and your setup goes smoothly!
@@jonathanDIYs did you buy yours from amazon? and im looking at dual fuel ones at the moment and wondering if the propane and natural gas go into the same port. I know with your attachment you added it seems to but im wondering without. thx
Yes, I bought it from amazon. Yes, the propane and the natural gas go into the same port. Gasoline is liquid, but both natural gas and propane is a gas.@@Gripmaster3000
Every Generator needs A Shed to Protect from Rain and Storms and Also Reduced Noise Level as we Wish 😅
Mine it a new Storage building!!!!!!!!!!
That gen only has a 30a plug... So 6k is all you can expect it to put out
30amps*240volts is 7200 watts if the load is properly balanced on both legs...
You got a video on Beryl coming soon?
I live in Central Texas and fortunately missed the storm. Our power didn't go out at all, so no video for me to make (which I am grateful for).
@@jonathanDIYs You've got the best practical solution for us in the Houston area. We didn't get power back till Monday evening a week later. It got up to 86 degrees on Monday Inside. We survived with generators to save our freezer and fridges...had one window AC in the small computer room. My gas meter is 55 feet away from the electrical panel in the backyard. I wouldn't feel safe either with a generator on the side of the house exposed. I like the idea of the inverter generator and the add on start kit. Thanks so much!! Are you in SA?
@@bjmcia Glad you like this idea and find it useful. I came up with this setup because I wanted something cheaper and less permanent than a generac that could come out to 10-15k after installation. This one meets all my needs while still being economical. I am actually outside of Austin.
I may go to 15,000 Champion Tri Fuel inverter to power our 4 ton AC. Portable gas line and extension cords make sense to me too. I can build a shelter out of free pallets. I’m a woodworker too! Thx! I see Moony Mann’s setup too. Thx again from Houston.
@bjmcia that's a nice model! Post some pictures of your build when you're done if you can. You definitely will want to go with the 50 amp breaker and NEMA 14-50 connector. Do note that the larger the generator, the faster it burns fuel generally. You generally want to get the smallest generator that will power everything you need. I definitely can see the need to get the larger model, my 8750 watt generator barely powers everything.
Hope your emergency prep setup goes well!
It looks like you live in Houston ?
@@RatedRx13 Austin, I thankfully didn't lose power or was affected by the hurricane this time around.
I'm surprised if your generator will put out full power with that size & length of hose.
It wont!!!!
what app is that?
Sense App - you have to attach sensors to your main incoming power lines to see that.
@@jonathanDIYs sounds expensive
@mikeeeeee555 yeah, I think I got it for $150 on sale... It has gone up significantly since then.
'Grow lights' caught u druggie lolllll
@@user-jt5vm3mi1w 😂
Champion must have paid you I bet you it won't run 32 hours on 5 gallons Harbor Freight Predator w i l l it's all I use for electricity it's not good on a 30-lb tank of propane going to get 27 or 28 hours but it's good for me I run it to charge the batteries for the fan cell phone batteries
Yeah, Champion is paying a guy with 900 subs😂😂
Running your generator at over 50 percent capacity for a length of time can damage the generator. And can also cause a fire. Also your generator should be at least 25 feet from your house. A running generator puts out a lot more carbon monoxide than a vehicle. That poisonous gas can easily seep into your home.
Practice your presentations -
Its hard to believe that the gas company would let you do that!!! You would need permits and all kind of crap!!!!
Hi! New subscriber. How much did materials for the gas conversion cost you???
hi there! Gas conversion kit cost approximately $190. The long hose I needed to buy and the quick disconnects was what ended up costing a lot as well. I think I spent another $200-$250. I think around $400-450 in total. If you don't need as long of a hose, you can probably shave off $150.