What Does Peace Look Like In The Middle East? | Question Time
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
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01:50 Do our government have any red lines when it comes to Israel?
13:50 Is Elon Musk vying for the position of President no 48?
19:48 Why don’t we get rid of the House of Lords?
23:06 What would it take to get Alastair back at Downing St.?
32:26 What are Rory’s thoughts on Trade Unions?
34:30 Outro
The Rest Is Politics is powered by Fuse Energy, a green electricity supplier powering homes across the UK. Use referral code POLITICS after sign up for a chance to win a signed copy of Rory and Alastair's books with personalised messages. Learn more at getfuse.com/politics ⚡
Do we have fuse in Edinburgh?
For at least thirty years I’ve been watching Netanyahu, (the person - not the state) thumb his nose at the US government. My sense of shame has grown too great, and I finally just have to ask - what the hell does Netanyahu have on the US as a country - and wouldn’t it be better for all if we just confronted it?
AIPAC & it’s budget. They can get unelected any politician in America who steps out of line. It’s also the control of so many media outlets.
Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle East, and it is not only supported by the US, all Arab neighbours support Israel, only the terror coalition of Russia and Iran fights Israel through proxies in Gaza, the WB, South Lebanon, and Yemen, what is it you don't understand?
It's strategically useful - but increasingly high maintenance
Well I think it is the other way around..american know israel but they dont care...what Israel do ..as long america gets benefits
I can tell you don’t work in diplomacy and security.
Israel is the closest ally of the US followed by Japan.
Israel has supported, without complaint, US geo strategic policies for the past 40
years without question.
Israel are experts in military, intelligence and cyber security - they are the best allies and arguably one of the most important as China and cyber becomes central.
You want to trade that for what. . . Hamas?
The myth of International rules based order - whatever serves US interests.
and who’s interests would you rather were being served exactly?..
It is so incredibly easy to make your comment without offering workable alternatives.
It's partly attributable to who's going to enforce them, no?
@@bimfred United Nations would be a good start. Bush and Blair developed the international rules based order to justify the Iraq War when the UN refused to sanction it.
You’ll be alright lmao. The world has never been more safe. International law is the reason so many small countries stay free lmao.
Or China's interests, or Russia's interests. None of these countries support an international criminal court so none support Rory's fundamental basis of international law. The UN is a forum not an authority and the UN works best when the forum finds agreement on problems rather than pronouncing divisive judgements.
Odd question by Rory "what is the concept of international law endorsed by Israel" the implication is that international legal order can be tailored made to the specific customer rather than mutually agreed between the likely ones.
the point is that Israel has been in breach of international law for decades by occupying territory and subjecting the natives to a repressive occupation.
Well I think we know what he meant
It’s not odd. It’s the truth. Look at the uk, racism legislation is a grand apartheid policy. There is no rule of law. Rory engaged in verifiable personhood apartheid against every women in the country and then calls Afghanistan out for gender apartheid. It’s all a shell game.
I think that was actually the point he was making by asking an, at least partially, rhetorical question?
@@markthomas808 "Lex dura lex" - some people suggest instead that the International rule based order has been tailored made for western interests. Since these interests have changed so will the rules. Obviously the implication is that international law is polite speech for the law of the mightiest: this is not what Rory profess to believe in, although Israel is one of many examples that he is wrong.
Exactly and the next 7 Oct is only a matter of time if UN GA Resolution of last month for Israel to vacate the 3 Palistinian Territories is ignored. The west has been complicit for decades giving Israel immunity so little wonder they feel bulletproof and do what they want.
Isreal sees peace as the occupation of territory around it, the annexation of the West Bank and will never recognise a Palestinian state. The situation is far more extreme than Northern Ireland was.
Haven't got a clue
If that's true, then what does Palestine see peace as?
Did the IRA ever commit terror on a scale of Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Houthis, Islamic Jihad, the PLO?
@@quiensera9947 equal rights and the right of return for it's displaced dispora.
@@AR12341 All generations of displaced diaspora or just a minimum of some? One state?
Response to the thumbnail: There are VERY CLEAR international laws - certain countries just don't care
Like Palestine, when they started this war on October 7th, 2023.
Like all laws - if you don't enforce them there's no point in having them.
@@mgoboski🎯
Find it difficult to watch as Google shows ads every 2-4 minutes
Pay for RUclips Premium
Yes, it's a pain 😢
AdBlocker Ultimate, Brave browser, Adguard DNS. No adverts at all.
Just use an an adblock browser to view RUclips videos and you will get zero ads...
@@JohnPichard ublock origin (other ad-blockers are available), I haven't seen an ad in years
Rory, the Israeli military didn't just drive up to UNIFIL and ssk them to leave. The Israeli tank opened fire on UNIFIL facilities. There's also evidence of some type of chemical weapon being used against UNIFIL personnel on another occasion.
In the interest of fairness, in this instance the IDF did advise UNIFIL to leave beforehand.
In the interest of fairness, any reasonable person would consider that to be a threat.
Yep, another red line normalised - what next? Seriously, do we even have a red line?
@@Avantoneno.rules are different for different people
Read IIlan Pape on Zionism and ethnic cleansing
9:45 You are allowed to have your own thoughts, reasoned positions, even moral principles, that do not relate to how many complaints you get from different people.
Indeed, the amount of grief you are going to get from other people should not influence your thoughts at all. The more you _are_ influenced by that, the more they are no longer actually your thoughts, they are simply other people's thoughts that you have acquiesced to as a proxy!
Everything you know was learned from ppl who already knew the exact same things.
Not yet finished but I genuinely appreciated the discussion at the beginning about the pressures you find yourselves under when talking about Israel’s occupation of Palestine
Even ordinary people get badly treated in this situation - someone who used to be a friend no longer speaks to me because I refused to go on a march! Bonkers.
The difference between the Northern Ireland example is that the Palestinians have nothing to offer the Israelis that the Israelis know they cant anyway take by force, and face essentially no repercussions.
100% Mathew 25:29: to those that have everything, more will be given; from those that have nothing, everything will be taken.
The Irish never threw the lives of their own people away like this though. The willingness of Hamas to sacrifice the lives of their own people doesn't have a modern western analogy.
Edit: Sein Fenn also eventually made a concerted effort to push education rather than fighting the English which is what ultimately transformed northern Ireland.
" ,,, pod-ultorous relationship" ... haha, *GOLD*
So stop saying how difficult it is to talk about Rory, and instead challenge directly and firmly those organisations and individuals who use a false label of antisemitism to shut down debate. We need to stand up to this nonsense.
Imagine a western leader that was not impotent when it came to destroying evil.
Israeli propaganda meshes with US neocon propaganda. That doesn't sound like a good thing to most of us.
There needs to be a second revising Chamber, to have second thoughts, but unelected, so that it will not be in competition with the elected Chamber, whose decision will -- ultimately -- prevail after being tested. As for unelected peers, there is a lot to be said for the "accident of birth." They are not there because of a dodgy political manoeuvre. They owe nothing to anybody (apart from their deceased parent).
After the 2026 TRIP tour Rory entered rehab after driving a Rolls Royce into his swimming pool, while Alistair was serving a six month suspended sentence for throwing a television out of his hotel window in Cardiff.
😂
😂
28:00 exactly and thank you for hitting the point, Rory. At best, PM Sir Keir would be a Junior Minister in the 1997 New Labour Government. How the standards have fallen... Nevertheless we move on, great question time gentlemen. Good luck with the shows, and please get on Jon Reid to inspire the Labour movement.
Three word reason people wanted to be called a Lord - Non Executive Directorships - which become available because of the Parliamentary Pass and access to politicians that comes with it!
Is this some sort of Joke? Campbell and Stewart both contributed to this chaos !
I'd listen to a podcast called "The rest is Grids"
Not all members of the House of Lords like to use the term 'Lord'. I worked for Lord Carter of Barnes for several years, but he never (not that I can recall, anyway) referred to himself as such. He prefers Stephen A Carter CBE.
Netanyahu needs to understand that if he doesn’t behave it will be lampshade time…
Peace looks like freedom of movement in the levant.
It’s amazing that nothing can change your views. Still thinking arb countries are a real thing.
Why are you still plugging GETFUSE when prices changes on 1st October?
Rory, whilst I am glad to hear you speak about peace as the way forward when discussing Palestine, you should avoid calibrating your answers in terms of the responses you receive from your friends or other people you might feel you have influence with. I and clearly many others really don't see why Israel is so difficult to speak about. You should speak truth as you see it without nuance when nuance is not appropriate. You may lose some 'friends' by speaking cold truth, but ultimately you will not be considered a collaborator. Too many in politics consider their pragmatism and influence to be more valuable than speaking truth at risk. A room full of pragmatists usually end up making an unholy mess - the great failing and weakness of our age. As Richard Harris said at the end of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, "it takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies but just as much to stand up to our friends". You might prefer similar allusions from Aristotle, Proverbs or Hugh Grant to Billy Bob Thornton in Love Actually, but to me you are definitely more Harry Potter.
"not being sympathetic enough"
Wow, that cant be the line. Or we are all guilty.
Communication is shockingly bad, I voted for labour and it's increasingly indefensible. They're managing looking weak while being cruel I'm the middle east, I think Starmer is flipping and flopping to be on the right side of the media, rather than using his own promises and labour ideals as a guide. And then there's the austerity under another name, there is no escaping it. Labour looks like a copy of the Torys, and making the EXACT same mistakes. Starmer put himself in a corner by selling out the left left when he broke promises to get leadership, and now he's just in a self made lying box and they have to do SOMETHING to drag the country up. Not being a liar establishment politician.
Mark my words, reform will storm the elections if they keep doing a Clinton and being a mile out of touch with people and the reality of hard poverty and it's radicalising effect. I write from a reform seat, if more areas become destitute and feel completely detached from the power held over them, radicals will take over, and between the left and the right wing radicals, the right is way more organised and wins almost every time. See Germany, Spain, Italy, I'd say Russia was an exception, but it's now fallen. Freedom is on the line, stop fucking around with it
Labour will prove to be a much better government that the Tories. Already they are doing good things with the NHS, trade, job creation and taxing the rich. Give them time.
I refer to your plugs for fuse energy.......you should make clear whether the offers apply only to UK electricity incl northern Ireland or Britain only and perhaps the republic of ireland david mccabe dubin
You can be anti-zionist without being anti-semetic.
In calling out the fascist and apartheid state of Israel we must make clear that the majority of Jewish people neither live under its power or support it.
Ohh shut up
@MartinSteed Can u jewish people have a right to a state as do pakistan have a right to a state.
this is nonsense, Zionism is the right of the Jews to live in peace in their historical homeland, no Jews will ever be against this, no matter where they live
@@RainerMichelle Matin showed his true colours jews have right to live in peace as do all people
Too many ads
AdBlocker Ultimate, Brave browser, Adguard DNS. No adverts at all.
I think it’s a sign you’ve thread the eye of the needle when you receive criticism from both sides
Which mega corporation owns getfuse I wonder?
The past is always lives in the future. If you don't know all the history, you will never have a understanding of the present.
"but essentially it's [Labour's position on Isreal] is still pretty much an echo of the American position" - It Absolutely is! The 'concessions' Labour have offered towards common sense are symbolic meaningless window dressing. The vast majority of arms sales to Israel go ahead as normal. No sanctions in place. No substantive changes in language. The real substance of their position is "we support Israel's right to defend itself" - As Israel burns teenagers in hospital beds attached to IV drips, attacks the UN and undermines international law. This is not a common sense position, nor is it in tune with the vast majority of British voters.
I agree it is the governments position but I disagree it is line with the majority of people in the UK. Even with the strong war bias many, many people disagree with what Israel has done this past year.
@@JohnCox-ut3cv Thanks for your comment John. But I think you slightly misread. We are in complete agreement my friend.
Israel is facing a terror coalition of Russia and Iran, and not only have they Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis firing Russian made rockets and drones into Israel, Russia also runs a hate campaign against Israel on Social media, which means the teenager burning in the Hospital was a Hamas weapons depot exploding and killing a few of their own people, and the UN has been hostile to Israel since a long time, because Russia and China have permanent seats, they are hostile to Ukraine as well
America wants a rule based order that everyone abides by except them and their strategic bases. What is the final goal for Israel and the Americans ? Another generation of people who are bound to hate the Israelis and the Americans has been created. That ‘s a war they can’t win. The Americans have certainly been willing to look weak on the international stage for the sake of the goal whatever it is,- strategic power in the area generally or a more definitive project - the Ben Gurian canal ? It has been strained to the point where some are asking to what extent the Israel lobby control the US ? Looking at British politicians, most of whom are in a Friends of Israel society of some kind ,one has to wonder where the pressure is actually coming from.
Thank you for a well balanced, well informed discussion. Sadly, even here it feels as though there’s a narrative that can’t be discussed…….edit…. and then we got to the Trump discussion. I’m not defending Trump nor the USA’s unenviable choice between him or Harris. And further….. we then got the Labour rubbish spouted by Mr Campbell.
" we then got the Labour rubbish spouted by Mr Campbell." In your opinion, but after years of Boris, Rees Mogg, Farage, etc., etc., any criticism of Labour is nothing compared to what we've had. A lot of us will see your comment rather silly compared to the chaos and outright deceits we're still reeling from.
The hereditary system, in the house of Lords or upper parliament, is coming to an end in stages or phases.
What an odd take from Rory on the Lords. The people that make the Chamber interesting and respectable are the scientists, retired military officers and civil servants, business people etc. who hold a far higher standard of debate than the commons. I couldn't give a monkeys about 'aristocratic glamour', ditch the hereditary peers by all means.
What have the irish been doing allowing hezbollah to fire rockets in to Israel?
It's not on their mandate to stop them. They have no enforcing ability. They are there as witnesses. Whether you like it or not, it doesn't mean the IDF is allowed to shoot at them
concept of international law: wd that be a law based on a market economy?
The US has to do as it’s told wrt Israel.
Ted Cruz was born in Canada. I wouldn't write off Musk's chances.
Arnold was born in Austria.
Lotta Ks in that url
Sinwar is dead it seems, hopefully this is the off-ramp for the Israel-Gaza conflict. I will not be convinced until it happens...
You’re both doing great providing a balanced view
No they are not. You have one leftie and one who says they are centrist but is actually centre left. Anything remotely on the right is just laughed at or called dangerous.
Nope it's a middle of nowhere road. Except to keep hold of their own position in society.
They’re still calling the middle easterners terrorists so not exactly
I voted for labour three times but would not vote for this labour.
I hope you can both ignore and survive what your friends say about your opinions on the eternal Arab-Israeli conflicts and tell us what you think is 'right'. To me, it looks like genocide, and hardly for the first time! I have been bitterly disappointed by the reticence from each of you, whom I normally admire so much.
C'mon you guys are always spectacularly late. Rory tries but the fear of coming off the plantation.
I've changed my mind about the situation. I think perhaps we should leave the protagonists to work things out themselves, but i wd hate 4 my comment to lead to nemore violence???
Alistair's a bit jealous
Guys it's time to really consider a motorbike. World politics is unravelling best start working on mid-life crisis
When is the pod going to be so pro Palestinian
Is it really that expensive to make these podcasts that they need to do sponsored ads? Haven't these guys a real job or a pension of sorts? =\
Whenever they start talking about the middle east you can clearly see they are way out of their depth and just don't have a clue
Their take is just wild. It's frustrating how Rory's tone hides his ignorance from the audience, whereas Alastair doesn't even know enough to know Rory's barking.
@@nate2257where do you suggest one goes to get that informed and balanced view? I am genuinely asking. You make a statement and make it sound like it is very easy to obtain. My experience suggests otherwise. I, like most people, believe I am intelligent enough to make up my own mind, but can only find views on the extreme of both sides!
It’s difficult to imagine peace as peace requires a strong force to be able to unite all the conflicting sides .
Instead there are external forces seeking to engineer a region that serves their interests , funding and organising perpetual conflict some times different sides stimultaneously to achieve outcomes.
Disappointed that a year in, and >40K recorded deaths, people still find it hard to call this what it is!
I hoped you'd answer the question on what would actually prompt our UK government to get a backbone and do something rather than answer it from a US perspective.
The Middle East was peaceful for 400 years under the Ottomans
Perhaps the current global order doesnot allow for that region in fear that it could have a negative impact on the existing global powers influence in the region
Rules: The UN was supposed to prevent Hesbolla from setting up bases and tunnels on the border and did nothing. So what rules are you talking about?
@@jameshaas3533 the UN is not perfect but better than an out of control terrorist state.
@@Barralet58 the UN peacekeepers were there for 18! years, their job was to disarm Hezbollah and stop them from firing into Israel, they FAILED, and when Israel went it, to take over after 12 months of getting rockets fired into Israel, the UN troops refused to move out of the line of fire, and now they are whining that the terrorists shot at them and blame Israel, and you get idiot protesters in the UK and the US who seriously ask who are the good guys in this story and that the UN should be respected🤡
Wrong in point of fact. UNIFIL is mandated to support the Lebanese government in it's security efforts. It is not mandated to attack Hezbollah on its own initiative.
As it was obvious that Lebanon had zero appetite for fighting Israel's war for it, this stipulation was added purely in order to give Israel something to complain about and it has indeed complained ever since, but had it not seen the value of UNIFIL the USA would never have endorsed it. Only now when its observation mission no longer serves Israel's ends has it started demanding its withdrawal, shooting out cameras and shooting actual peacekeepers.
No country will adhere to international law if its enemy does not abide by it as well, seemingly without consequence.
How can Hez'bollah operate from within Lebanon with impunity?
"if someone steals from me, I'll steal from them back, you can't expect me to follow the law if they won't" sounds foolish doesn't it?
@@scopena-pets2545 Yes, very foolish.
Stealing is a criminal offense, and is handled by individual states internally.
International law refers to countries and actors.
If international law is unable to address non-state actors acting from inside established states, the states fighting these actors will inherently be at a disadvantage. Why would they accept that if the other side can operate with impunity?
@@Dror872 Hezbollah and hamas are 2 different scenarios. Hamas are an insurgency from within the Israeli occupied territories and therefore their actions should be treated as criminal offences. I think this is where we probably have a fundamental disagreement. I, alongside HRW, AMNESTY and b'tselem consider Israel an apartheid state so I can say this.
Sorry if you this comment is oblivious but what is Israel doing to defend itself in Lebanon and Gaza ?
I understand they want Hamas gone but this doesn’t feel like an act of defense anymore
There are discussions within the Israeli cabinet about the potential long-term annexation of the Arabian peninsula.
They are hell-bent on implementing biblical prophecy.
History tells us that People always fight for power. Which part does it serve?
The UN hasn't prevented Hezbollah from attacking Israel or prevented Hezbollah from gaining weapons of any kind.
HB is a result of isreali aggression against its neighbours since its inception. You know have the likes of smotrich and ben gavir parading the "greater isreal" plan - do you honestly believe isreal ever wanted peace?!
The UN never ensured that Israel complied with its conditions of acceptance as a UN member.
The UN is pretty toothless. Same as the league of nations before it!
Alastair - please stop ranting and talking over Rory. It's getting very boring.
If Musk was exactly the same person but was supporting Harris, these two would be calling him a genius.
but then he wouldnt be the same person lol. this is incoherent
He's an amoral d head though. So he supports Trump.
Musk seems emntally unstable almost. He is clearly not stupid but whoudl be a terrible leader of a nation. if you are good at developing new tech with companies why not stick to that?
Musk does, at least, believe in free speech more than the the previous owners.
He says he does, which might not be the same thing.
Saying that you believe in free speech is a meaningless statement. Most people would claim as such. The important question is 'what do you understand by free speech?' Musk has a proven track record of double standards in this. He thinks publishing libellous claims are OK, but has sought to silence his critics.
@@simonmeadows7961 I've seen no evidence of these thinks. Please link to them. It's ashame youtube comments does not have community notes.