Wow, okay, first of all thanks for the kind words about Basic Fantasy RPG! Sorry the name didn't live up to your expectations... when BFRPG was released, there were no "retro-clone" games and no such thing as the Old School Renaissance yet. I was looking for a name that showed the connection to the game I played back in high school and college without violating the OGL. You suggest I didn't put much work into it... you have no idea how much I agonized over the name. The other thing I noticed is that you say Basic Fantasy RPG is "late 3rd edition" stripped down. NO, sorry, not true. Yes, the game is derived in the legal sense from the d20 3.5 SRD under the terms of the OGL, much as practically all OSR games are; but the vast majority of the text is written from scratch to replicate the feel and mechanics of the world's most popular RPG circa 1981. I did use some text, mainly where that text did not conflict with the mechanics or feel, but the only actual game mechanic I took from the SRD was ascending AC. If I'd thought of ascending AC in 1982 when I started, I'd have used it then... it's just too quick and easy to ignore for me. But again, thanks for the kind words! I know several of our artists have really appreciated the kudos here, so thanks for that as well!
Basic Fantasy is a great game in its own right. The website is stuffed with expansions. Yea, 5E is good, but there's something to be said for taking it old school The rules are niced twaked in certain places, and there's some brilliant ideas that makes the game very playable.
This is the epitome how the game was played back in the early days. There wasn't really as much uniformity as you might think. There was no internet and no one had access to as much info as they do now with the exception of a few magazines, so the end result is that if you played with more than one group you played with different sets of rules. Every table was chock full of houserules. The beauty of Basic Fantasy RPG is that the creator recognized that there is no one pure ruleset that covers everything. He built a core ruleset based on the original Basic/Expert game from circa 1981ish and left out all the rest. But the BFRPG community is made up of hard core old schoolers, refuges from modern games, newbies to gaming and other similar types. From that group just about everything one could want in a game has been created in the workshop threads and made available. From alternative magic systems, simple skill systems, additional races and classes, etc. to combat mapping for miniatures. Most of which has been reviewed and commented on and playtested. It is a very buildable system.
FYI Runequest predates MERP, was out when I was in grade school, where MERP came out when I was in Jr. High. It is not "derivative", and, like GURPS, it's basic book was just rules, all the 'world flavor' stuff came from the few expansions in its short lived run. It's not a fair comparison to MERP, which had its whole world already written for it by Mr. Tolkein long before RPGs were even a thing.
Basic Fantasy is a 3.5 clone of the 1980 Moldvay/Cook Basic & Expert sets compiled into one... the biggest changes being the removal of alignments and race as class and the spell descriptions ported from the SRD (which I consider a game balance improvement). I DM it and agree it's excellent.
You can buy all the Basic Fantasy books for the prices of the D&D players handbook. I'm DMing a group that has never played D&D before so I'm going to start out with the basic fantasy and then slowly progress to 5e D&D
+spaceLem Amen..it's also all you need for meat n potatoes fun. So much of what they sell us is fluff you never use at the table. Of all the 5e books, I only ever use the MM.
joey novack I love Basic Fantasy. Been playing for 2 years. Reminds me of the Black Box I got in 1992. Apart from 5e, this is what I love. to play. If I could get a regular group players interested, its all I would play, get the whole table a book, as they are so affordable.
Basic Fantasy is a good system for those who want old school without THAC0 and I think they have a PDF you can check out. But yeah, it's great to draw ideas from many sources...
thanks hankerin. recently started watching your channel along with dm Scotty and wasd20 and I will be running my own campaign soon. first-time and kinda anxious to jump down the rabbit hole. I loved the 3 encounters series! can't get enough of it actually. Strength Honor & Beer
For the very best games dump 90% of the rules and free form the rules. I just pick a number that the players need to roll. They have a stat sheet and some abilities and the rest of it is story. When they fight I let them tell me what they want to do and give them the roll they need. I have been doing it for 30 years and I have players begging to be in my games.
Basic Fantasy is basically B/X with 3e hit rolls. I'm a big BECMI fan, but no way I'm throwing the Rules Cyclopedia at newbies, and don't really want the complexity of all the Master level optional rules myself -- so keeping it basic with Basic Fantasy is great to me.
Aw, THAC0 is cake. (My roll) + (my bonuses) + (my enemy's AC) >= my THAC0 ? Hit : Miss If they have a negative AC, it's so good it actually nerfs your roll. AC 0 is your target, and anything higher is weaker than you're capable of breaking through on a regular basis, so it improves your roll instead. It's literally the same exact system as D&D 3E and above. They just swapped (AC) and (THAC0) across the inequality. You're probably used to this: (My roll) + (my bonuses) + ("to hit" [THAC0, srsly]) >= (my enemy's AC) ? Hit : Miss SAME FORMULA. Besides, there's something ominous about facing a foe with an armor rating so good it negates the rating system. AD&D 2E was all about your character beating SELF's target numbers (saves, stat checks, attacks, etc), where as 3E really started getting players to roll against ENEMY's target numbers instead (DC check, AC, etc). It was a nice sentiment in 2E to think that the most important thing one needed to overcome to succeed was oneself.
Great summary. People need to remember is AC10 is AC10 in both editions, and AC20 is AC0, in both cases you roll the same dice with the same target on a D20 and adjust your "to hit" by a scale depending on your class... THACO 19 = BAB+1 THACO 18 = BAB+2 etc It's basically THAC20. 5th Edition made that similarity even clearer by removing many of the ridiculously high scores 3rd Ed pushed out to.
Ha, THAC20, love it! I'm an employee at Wizards of the Coast, I am absolutely going to start using "THAC20" in discussions at work where previous editions come up in conversation.
[legend/runequest] I know I came from the future and this is not relevant anymore, but runequest has some quite unique and really fun mechanics (and yep, it falls way into the uncomfortable simulationist side) but it has given us one of the best rpg books I've ever read: Troll Pack. If nothing else from the runequest world, that book is worth every single cp.
Have you ever played Fantasy Trip? Or Tunnels & Trolls? Old game systems which are nearly useless today. Except flavor. I have to wait another month or so before purchasing any more game stuff. I went crazy this past month and way over my personal limit. Thx! for the review videos. I want to get DCC stuff next.
TFT was Steve Jackson's first set of mechanics. He later went on to do GURPS. I like TFT (The Fantasy Trip) for a Hack-n-Slash fight - toe-to-toe with nasty monsters - good for solo gaming. T&T mechanics do not scale well. Weird stuff can happen such as characters being unable to harm a monster. Both are good for seeing different mechanics working. Daughter wants to play, got to go play now. LOL
Oh god, I can tell that I'm old when someone is calling 3rd Edition D&D "Classic Retro". Haha!!! To me, that's a new version that came out just yesterday that all the younsters started playing.
@@ChrisGonnerman I started playing in the late 70's when D&D was just these... pamphlet books. And the rules were pretty much, "Do whatever the DM says. And if it's combat, use this OTHER book and game for that.". I went from that to the vastly improved Holms edition. It wasn't really until that Metzer Basic and that AD&D stuff started getting printed till that game really took off for me. I was already hooked but man. When Metzer Basic and AD&D came out...
@@BlackburnBigdragon I started with the Moldvay edition, and honestly never cared for Mentzer's presentation. Might have been easier to learn from though.
@@ChrisGonnerman The Metzer books were definitely cheaper printed, and I didn't like the artwork for it. They lacked the charm of the Moldvay version. The actual rules system was a LOT more.. organized and streamlined than the Moldvay version. I actually recommend that people starting to play old school D&D start with Metzer simply because of that fact. So I agree that the presentation wasn't that good, but the rules set was solid.
The thing I use DM screens for is the quick reference material (have you seen the Kalamar one? It's like 31 panels) do you have something else you use for that? I am making a "cheat sheet" for the Infinity RPG so I have that concept going. And I've handed out index cards to players for custom rules.
+Spenser Clark For me, if it's too detailed to just remember, I avoid employing it. We try to flow our game where there are almost no look ups...simple is best for us
I support that. My recent gaming has been public space organized play which sometimes demands weird rule corner cases and limits DM decisions. As I transition to home play I'll probably take your tack more.
"Legend" seems derivative of Runequest which seemed derivative of Middle Earth RolePlaying (MERP) from back in the 80s?! Well, despite that *seemingly* egregious mangling of timeline and RPG history, I like your style and your vids are engaging and entertaining. Recommended: play a game before declaring "I cannot recommend this". Legend and the family of d100 games it comes from is easier to learn and more common-sense than anything in the Gygaxian family of games and it can easily handle multiple genres. Is it more fun? That comes down to personal preference.
I will say that you have to play Savage Worlds to appreciate it. The interaction of cards, dice, and player agency in declaring how their actions appear all synergize into an experience you can't feel properly by reading about it. SW is a great system, it's fun to run and play, and it's dead simple if kind of idiosyncratic. Getting players to see how all of their actions influence one another is kind of difficult if they're used to more atomistic character roles as in D&D. In SW, characters can build off of one another's successes in ways that other games don't facilitate explicitly.
Hey man, a while back you posted a video detailing world creation and how you recommend starting with a sideways model rather than an overhead model, and I was wondering if you've poked around at all with implementing that same system into gameplay? I know whenever there's a building with multiple levels, Scotty (from the DM's Craft) has a different set up for each floor, but I was wondering what your thoughts might be about having more of a dollhouse set up rather than the typical grid setup
pathfinder is awesome! leaving thaco behidn will be great...its the final leap to enteringa far more intuitive numeric design.... also teh pathfinder resources ar eabundant and brilliantly made.. doo eeeet
Why can't companies give out a bit more swag with proper logos. Working for certain companies, I see the dumbest shit with a company logo on it, it can't be that hard to do
Your ability to take from all thing RPG iz awsome... I try to do that with my game group but the one player just doesn't like to explore new ideas... And so hes nothing but arguments and opposite defiance in every sense of the word... And I too hate DM screens , I think they are a way to separate ones self from their players and I think that I have nothing to hide so lets just sit down and game...
I recently have been replaying pc games like majesty and myth 2, and they both have a lot of great sources for inspiration. every quest in majesty could be made into a d&d campaign.
![ROSÉ (로제) - number one girl [더 시즌즈-이영지의 레인보우] | KBS 241129 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A9oByH9Ci24/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm one of the Basic Fantasy RPG artist, thanks for speaking nicely about the art and the game
thank you for this game, I adore it and allowed me to fully DM when I was flat broke. Its my fave system to run
Oh yeah! That stuff is great!
Wow, okay, first of all thanks for the kind words about Basic Fantasy RPG! Sorry the name didn't live up to your expectations... when BFRPG was released, there were no "retro-clone" games and no such thing as the Old School Renaissance yet. I was looking for a name that showed the connection to the game I played back in high school and college without violating the OGL. You suggest I didn't put much work into it... you have no idea how much I agonized over the name.
The other thing I noticed is that you say Basic Fantasy RPG is "late 3rd edition" stripped down. NO, sorry, not true. Yes, the game is derived in the legal sense from the d20 3.5 SRD under the terms of the OGL, much as practically all OSR games are; but the vast majority of the text is written from scratch to replicate the feel and mechanics of the world's most popular RPG circa 1981. I did use some text, mainly where that text did not conflict with the mechanics or feel, but the only actual game mechanic I took from the SRD was ascending AC. If I'd thought of ascending AC in 1982 when I started, I'd have used it then... it's just too quick and easy to ignore for me.
But again, thanks for the kind words! I know several of our artists have really appreciated the kudos here, so thanks for that as well!
Solomoriah has spoken!
@@mikes845 The hardest part is making me stop.
You can download Basic Fantasy for free at their website!
Basic Fantasy is a great game in its own right. The website is stuffed with expansions. Yea, 5E is good, but there's something to be said for taking it old school The rules are niced twaked in certain places, and there's some brilliant ideas that makes the game very playable.
This is the epitome how the game was played back in the early days. There wasn't really as much uniformity as you might think. There was no internet and no one had access to as much info as they do now with the exception of a few magazines, so the end result is that if you played with more than one group you played with different sets of rules. Every table was chock full of houserules.
The beauty of Basic Fantasy RPG is that the creator recognized that there is no one pure ruleset that covers everything. He built a core ruleset based on the original Basic/Expert game from circa 1981ish and left out all the rest. But the BFRPG community is made up of hard core old schoolers, refuges from modern games, newbies to gaming and other similar types. From that group just about everything one could want in a game has been created in the workshop threads and made available. From alternative magic systems, simple skill systems, additional races and classes, etc. to combat mapping for miniatures. Most of which has been reviewed and commented on and playtested. It is a very buildable system.
FYI Runequest predates MERP, was out when I was in grade school, where MERP came out when I was in Jr. High. It is not "derivative", and, like GURPS, it's basic book was just rules, all the 'world flavor' stuff came from the few expansions in its short lived run. It's not a fair comparison to MERP, which had its whole world already written for it by Mr. Tolkein long before RPGs were even a thing.
They are not even similar.
Basic Fantasy is a 3.5 clone of the 1980 Moldvay/Cook Basic & Expert sets compiled into one... the biggest changes being the removal of alignments and race as class and the spell descriptions ported from the SRD (which I consider a game balance improvement). I DM it and agree it's excellent.
You can buy all the Basic Fantasy books for the prices of the D&D players handbook. I'm DMing a group that has never played D&D before so I'm going to start out with the basic fantasy and then slowly progress to 5e D&D
+spaceLem Amen..it's also all you need for meat n potatoes fun. So much of what they sell us is fluff you never use at the table. Of all the 5e books, I only ever use the MM.
joey novack I love Basic Fantasy. Been playing for 2 years. Reminds me of the Black Box I got in 1992. Apart from 5e, this is what I love. to play. If I could get a regular group players interested, its all I would play, get the whole table a book, as they are so affordable.
Dungeon world really opened my eyes..it changed the way i tell the story and prep my game...thanks for the advice
Steven Deruosi dungeon world should be required reading for all GMs.
@@1simo93521 Yes! It's the game that got me into these games. It really help to understand the role of a GM and narrative.
If I have one regret in my DM career thus far, it is that I didn't take your advice to check out DCC sooner. Take Hank's advice, look into DCC now.
There are DCC modules made for d&d 3/3.5/4th edition. Checkout Castles and Crusades
Basic Fantasy is a good system for those who want old school without THAC0 and I think they have a PDF you can check out. But yeah, it's great to draw ideas from many sources...
Critical Hit Yup Basic Fantasy is awesome
I use a dm screen, but I sit on the other side and pin stuff to it for visual reference
thanks hankerin. recently started watching your channel along with dm Scotty and wasd20 and I will be running my own campaign soon. first-time and kinda anxious to jump down the rabbit hole. I loved the 3 encounters series! can't get enough of it actually. Strength Honor & Beer
For the very best games dump 90% of the rules and free form the rules. I just pick a number that the players need to roll. They have a stat sheet and some abilities and the rest of it is story. When they fight I let them tell me what they want to do and give them the roll they need. I have been doing it for 30 years and I have players begging to be in my games.
Basic Fantasy is basically B/X with 3e hit rolls. I'm a big BECMI fan, but no way I'm throwing the Rules Cyclopedia at newbies, and don't really want the complexity of all the Master level optional rules myself -- so keeping it basic with Basic Fantasy is great to me.
Great job dude, Love DCC...just another great video, keep 'em coming!!
"Give me pencils with your rpg logo on, don't be so damn stingy!" well, now you have your own rpg, I'd love a ICRPG logo pen! :is there one? 😊
hahah well met! Not yet, no!
Aw, THAC0 is cake.
(My roll) + (my bonuses) + (my enemy's AC) >= my THAC0 ? Hit : Miss
If they have a negative AC, it's so good it actually nerfs your roll. AC 0 is your target, and anything higher is weaker than you're capable of breaking through on a regular basis, so it improves your roll instead.
It's literally the same exact system as D&D 3E and above. They just swapped (AC) and (THAC0) across the inequality.
You're probably used to this:
(My roll) + (my bonuses) + ("to hit" [THAC0, srsly]) >= (my enemy's AC) ? Hit : Miss
SAME FORMULA. Besides, there's something ominous about facing a foe with an armor rating so good it negates the rating system. AD&D 2E was all about your character beating SELF's target numbers (saves, stat checks, attacks, etc), where as 3E really started getting players to roll against ENEMY's target numbers instead (DC check, AC, etc). It was a nice sentiment in 2E to think that the most important thing one needed to overcome to succeed was oneself.
Great summary.
People need to remember is AC10 is AC10 in both editions, and AC20 is AC0, in both cases you roll the same dice with the same target on a D20 and adjust your "to hit" by a scale depending on your class...
THACO 19 = BAB+1
THACO 18 = BAB+2
etc
It's basically THAC20.
5th Edition made that similarity even clearer by removing many of the ridiculously high scores 3rd Ed pushed out to.
Ha, THAC20, love it! I'm an employee at Wizards of the Coast, I am absolutely going to start using "THAC20" in discussions at work where previous editions come up in conversation.
[legend/runequest] I know I came from the future and this is not relevant anymore, but runequest has some quite unique and really fun mechanics (and yep, it falls way into the uncomfortable simulationist side) but it has given us one of the best rpg books I've ever read: Troll Pack. If nothing else from the runequest world, that book is worth every single cp.
Did you ever get that "4-Pillar Puzzle" worked out?
hehe ah pillar puzzles... perrennial!
Have you ever played BESM? I love how you can gain additional stat points by taking character defects like scars, nightmares, a nemesis etc..
not yet...
Just catching up to how awesome your videos are. You've gotten me to spend WAY too much money! Seriously, though, I love your videos.
Have you ever played Fantasy Trip? Or Tunnels & Trolls? Old game systems which are nearly useless today. Except flavor. I have to wait another month or so before purchasing any more game stuff. I went crazy this past month and way over my personal limit. Thx! for the review videos. I want to get DCC stuff next.
not yet, heard a lot about em
TFT was Steve Jackson's first set of mechanics. He later went on to do GURPS. I like TFT (The Fantasy Trip) for a Hack-n-Slash fight - toe-to-toe with nasty monsters - good for solo gaming. T&T mechanics do not scale well. Weird stuff can happen such as characters being unable to harm a monster. Both are good for seeing different mechanics working.
Daughter wants to play, got to go play now. LOL
realy enjoy in youre videos.good job.
The camera does NOT like that shirt. lol
Oh god, I can tell that I'm old when someone is calling 3rd Edition D&D "Classic Retro". Haha!!! To me, that's a new version that came out just yesterday that all the younsters started playing.
Yeah, don't listen to him. BFRPG is the way we played in the '80's, except for ascending AC.
@@ChrisGonnerman I started playing in the late 70's when D&D was just these... pamphlet books. And the rules were pretty much, "Do whatever the DM says. And if it's combat, use this OTHER book and game for that.". I went from that to the vastly improved Holms edition. It wasn't really until that Metzer Basic and that AD&D stuff started getting printed till that game really took off for me. I was already hooked but man. When Metzer Basic and AD&D came out...
@@BlackburnBigdragon I started with the Moldvay edition, and honestly never cared for Mentzer's presentation. Might have been easier to learn from though.
@@ChrisGonnerman The Metzer books were definitely cheaper printed, and I didn't like the artwork for it. They lacked the charm of the Moldvay version. The actual rules system was a LOT more.. organized and streamlined than the Moldvay version. I actually recommend that people starting to play old school D&D start with Metzer simply because of that fact. So I agree that the presentation wasn't that good, but the rules set was solid.
The thing I use DM screens for is the quick reference material (have you seen the Kalamar one? It's like 31 panels) do you have something else you use for that? I am making a "cheat sheet" for the Infinity RPG so I have that concept going. And I've handed out index cards to players for custom rules.
+Spenser Clark For me, if it's too detailed to just remember, I avoid employing it. We try to flow our game where there are almost no look ups...simple is best for us
I support that. My recent gaming has been public space organized play which sometimes demands weird rule corner cases and limits DM decisions. As I transition to home play I'll probably take your tack more.
whoah...
What about Vampire masquerade???? Tell us!! Review it!!!
"Legend" seems derivative of Runequest which seemed derivative of Middle Earth RolePlaying (MERP) from back in the 80s?! Well, despite that *seemingly* egregious mangling of timeline and RPG history, I like your style and your vids are engaging and entertaining. Recommended: play a game before declaring "I cannot recommend this". Legend and the family of d100 games it comes from is easier to learn and more common-sense than anything in the Gygaxian family of games and it can easily handle multiple genres. Is it more fun? That comes down to personal preference.
Tom Gorman wow runequest is 6 years older than me rp! crazy, thanks for the fact check!
Review Savage Worlds. The softcover deluxe edition is only 10 USD. The best value there ever was for rpgs.
+edheldude love the title! on it
I know I'm a little late to the party, but Savage Worlds is an awesome system. Lots of variety with all the add-ons, etc. Highly recommended.
I will say that you have to play Savage Worlds to appreciate it. The interaction of cards, dice, and player agency in declaring how their actions appear all synergize into an experience you can't feel properly by reading about it. SW is a great system, it's fun to run and play, and it's dead simple if kind of idiosyncratic. Getting players to see how all of their actions influence one another is kind of difficult if they're used to more atomistic character roles as in D&D. In SW, characters can build off of one another's successes in ways that other games don't facilitate explicitly.
Better than a free game with free content? :D SW is a completely different kind of game. Not my cup of tea, but I see the attraction.
Great quality of videos. I hope you can get a shit ton more subs!
Trollocs Thnx! On it!
Hey man, a while back you posted a video detailing world creation and how you recommend starting with a sideways model rather than an overhead model, and I was wondering if you've poked around at all with implementing that same system into gameplay? I know whenever there's a building with multiple levels, Scotty (from the DM's Craft) has a different set up for each floor, but I was wondering what your thoughts might be about having more of a dollhouse set up rather than the typical grid setup
William Hargrave We mainly do full 3d, but a side cutaway is a crazy amazy idea!
Drunkens & Dragons: Play D&D Like a Badass Thanks man, appreciate the quick feedback!
I thought Basic Fantasy was First Edition AD&D, not 3rd. Hmmm.
It's neither. BFRPG replicates a more "basic" version of the world's most popular RPG. It came in a hot pink box (seriously) but the book was red.
What is ur opinion on pathfinder. lots of my players want to play it but i feel a little intimidated going from THAC0 land to d20
pathfinder is awesome! leaving thaco behidn will be great...its the final leap to enteringa far more intuitive numeric design.... also teh pathfinder resources ar eabundant and brilliantly made.. doo eeeet
one caveat: it's overly detailed in some mechanics...clean i tup a touch for best funs
Thac0 is one of the most unnecessary and counter intuitive systems ever.
Using ascending armor class is the SAME probability, just easier to resolve.
A Call of cthulhu review could be fun
No, I'll play BF over 5E all day.
Thanks Glen!
Why can't companies give out a bit more swag with proper logos. Working for certain companies, I see the dumbest shit with a company logo on it, it can't be that hard to do
Where'd you get Dungeon Crawl Classics? Link? Would love to get it.
IRoll1s You can get everything they make at Goodman-games. I have a review coming for their core book...it is AMAZEBALLS AWESOME
have you checked out symbaroum?
its in teh mail right now lol
nice!
Step up your game beholders! Try being a dm!
Do you mind players knowing they failed a stealth check?
nope...we just keep rolling. hell we had a rogue make a roll to "contain and suppress teh entire power and personality of azmodeus"
DCC is rad. Have you checked out World's Largest Dungeon? -Grundle
RuckusDUB Yeh that stuff is bonkers
Why don't you like RuneQuest??? I just ordered the latest edition...
Your ability to take from all thing RPG iz awsome... I try to do that with my game group but the one player just doesn't like to explore new ideas... And so hes nothing but arguments and opposite defiance in every sense of the word... And I too hate DM screens , I think they are a way to separate ones self from their players and I think that I have nothing to hide so lets just sit down and game...
DMBLAIR WULF sounds like you need to give mister joy kill the the boot from your group. Life's to short to mess with these people.
is he or is he not the maker or BF? i don't understand where he coming from.... seems like he wants me to play 5th....?!?!?!?!?!?
🙄
dungeon crawl classic rule. love all your videos man.
I recently have been replaying pc games like majesty and myth 2, and they both have a lot of great sources for inspiration. every quest in majesty could be made into a d&d campaign.