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If this movie was from the little sister's perspective it would have been an Oscar winning indie drama about a little girl losing her childhood because she's taking care of her mentally unwell older brother.
That will be a neat idea, it can challenge the concept of the 'traditional' family Hierarchy that older siblings must be the star child and have to be caretaker for there younger siblings
I am very glad, that Joseph Gordon-Levitt isn't there, thinking he plays the good guy, the victim, but knowing exactly, what he was doing, having an aware view on his character.
@user-73a No, your male version of Summer sounds like an insufferable hipster I would dislike as well. Anything else you want to tell me how I feel about?
I saw an interview with Joseph Gordon-Levitt when he made Don Jon and in that interview he talks about how that character and Tom are the same sort of person.
It's absolutely wild that the director and actors understood the themes of the movie more than the writer. You're right, people can misinterpret their own work if it's based on their experience and they are grossly misinterpreting their experience
It's a kinda wild because I've seen this movie as a subversion of normal romcoms. It's the nice guy protagonist who "deserves" to get the manic pixie dream girl, except it's not because those aren't real ppl they're tropes. It's about seeing the fallacy in that story. Even I as a young college kid who never had a real relationship could see that.
But that's exactly what life is like - everybody has been in a situation where their friend is talking about their "one" and you're like "what the hell??" And I think that trying to judge if the writer gets it or not based on interviews from different times isn't really valid - when we are wrong in a relationship it can take a long time to mature and realize all the ways we were wrong. You might see some aspects and then with time you see more and more. So I actually think the writer is doing a good job reflecting on this as time goes by. When I watched the film I also got the "there are no villains here" feeling - just a really immature guy, and we are all immature at some point.
@avp6730 I also feel that way, years later after watching it a couple of times. In the end break up will still leave other with a feeling "what did I do wrong?" Or "Damn I really was an ass at the end" alive felt like that even after maturing. It really does take 20/20 to see what you did and did not do. It does suck that some adults go through this cause we all hope we left those immature thoughts and action back in our younger days.
It’s crazy that people think summer is evil when he didn’t know a single thing about her besides the fact that she’s aloof and fun. And she loves the smiths.
@@mana-uv7cz 100%. It's stupid to pursue someone who's vocally disinterested in a relationship, but it is also a bit cruel to keep casually hooking up with someone when you know they're in love with you. People make it a gendered issue one way or another, but I think if you divorce the characters from their sexes, it becomes clear that it's just a case of two emotionally immature, willfully ignorant people using each other. Neither of them are bad people. Or great people. They're just naive and a bit selfish. Because they're in their early 20s.
@@mana-uv7cz yeah, I know. I just meant to highlight how everyone who sees either of them as evil (especially Tom) does so because of ideas about gender dynamics.
This is one of my favorite movies. And I think it's because everyone took what the writer wrote and saw it for what it was. Webb and Gordon-Levitt and co. saw Tom as the villain of the story and ran with it, so that even when the film came out and it initially did have the broad read that I think the writer intended, time has shown that most people have come to realize that Tom is not the hero of that story. One other thing I love about 500 Days is how creative it is in the sea of bland romantic comedies. The various creative shot choices, or jumps through time, and the use of color. I just wish other rom-coms had 10% of the creativity 500 Days has. And the courage to have the protagonist be the "villain"
A Villain would suggest someone is evil. The protagonist is someone that learns and progresses from adversity and overcoming character flaws, we can certainly empathize with that. If you would skip all the nonsense around the movie that were pointed out in this video essay, abound the writer's background, it would still stand on it's own like it has for so many watching. Even just the basic surface level of idolizing someone for who you hope and think that they are is so recognisable, as everyone in the early stages of love is guilty of that to some extent.
@@pinobluevogel6458 if you want to be pedantic, then you can call him an antagonist if you want. The way that Tom loves Summer in the move is a selfish, self absorbed thing. She's clear right away how she feels and what she wants, but he thinks he can change her mind. He places her either on a pedestal where she's a flawless creature to be idolized or he's talking about terrible she is. He never really knew her, and never really tried to know her. And as far as growth is concerned, Summer goes from saying she doesn't believe in love to being married. Tom goes from writing greeting cards to attempting to pursue a career in architecture. At the end of the movie, there's no noticeable difference in how he interacts with Autumn, but of the two characters, Summer is the one that obviously progressed from adversity to overcome her character flaw, not Tom.
@@Punkandcannonballer We don't get to see exactly when or even if Tom has learned on a personal level how he deals with his warped or ineffective way of experiencing love. Keep in mind that having these kinds of feelings is extremely common, among both men and women, where their self obsessed personality, or lack of consideration or interest in the other party ruins their true chances in love. And while you correctly state that Summer in this case is not really at fault, this is clearly not always the case in real life situations. The general gist of this video I think lays too much of a burden on the writer (who the protagonist is based on) and that character and not on the fact that these kinds of relatively common ways of interaction between potential lovers are rarely depicted, or thought through, or even 'accepted' as normal things to occur. Yes, Tom is immature. Yes, he needs to grow to overcome this. But painting him as a villain goes too far for my liking. He is a morally grey character like everyone else, while Summer is depicted as a 'perfect' being, as we see her through the lens of his (dishonest) passion for her, which is a view disconnected from reality that is so common for a person that experiencing these deep feelings of love. She is naturally not perfect at all, as people like that simply do not exist, but his view of her makes her look like she is. My main point is (and I'm sorry I'm taking so many words to come to it) that the focus of this essay and a lot of these comments are more on how horrible this writer / Tom is, while he isn't that much different from most of the world population, especially in the western world, where humans are sadly often lost, lonely and misguided. I would prefer to celebrate this movie, not just for being a great film technically in terms of storytelling, acting and originality but also for shining a light on these not often seen interactions and emotional arcs. These subjects are based on real life and certainly more common than the nonsense we see in the average romantic comedy.
@@pinobluevogel6458 @pinobluevogel6458 I think the issue is that it seems very, very clear that the movie the writer intended to make was not intentionally subversive. He wrote Tom as a traditional NiceGuy who "seals the deal." Who gets the girl. To him, he doesn't see anything toxic about that, about thinking about himself or how special he is when Summer is telling him about something she's never told anyone, and that's clear in the commentary, when both the director and actor point out Tom's toxic behavior but the writer defends it as being honestly romantic. Like, think about who becomes emotional and when. Tom gets angry when he and Summer aren't a couple, despite Summer already saying that she didn't want that. When they break up he insults her appearance, he breaks stuff in his apartment. I'm not saying having emotion is bad, but he often will just be calously toxic, and I don't think that's supposed to be rewarded just because love is complicated. Because, again, he didn't really love Summer. He loved an idea of her. He loved how she made him feel. He loved how she looked. He didn't know her. I think if they played the script straight, the movie would not be nearly as memorable or as special. Sure, it'd still be amazing on a technical level in comparison to other rom-coms, but it'd be just as bland. And worse, it'd have a protagonist seemingly learn absolutely nothing from beginning to end, except to use a failed relationship as a springboard to try a career. The director and actors have given a nuanced take of a toxic person's single-minded, selfish view of love, which is part of what makes the movie special.
@@Punkandcannonballer Is someone a toxic person when he or she gets angry and says things that they don't mean? Throwing stuff around? I certainly don't think idolizing someone or putting them on a pedestal is toxic. As is loving her for the idea of what she is, instead of really loving who she is. That is more common in the beginning phases of love than not. Virtually all humans have incredibly positive fantasy versions of the people they fall in love with, that slowly gets more down to earth when you get to know them. For most, this can cause the relationship to fail, but for some this deepens into mutual respect and love. I remember most of what he does is relatively mild and only when he's already at the breaking point and losing it because he is afraid of losing her, does he do really harmful things that can hurt her. Especially when compared to 'real' toxic relationships, where someone is downright abusive, manipulative or physically violent. Quite often in those really toxic relationships, their partner doesn't even leave, caught in some stockholm syndrome or self-destructive mindset that they deserve it. I don't know, I might be oldschool and even this movie is relatively oldschool, but I'm looking at this movie through quite a different lens. Maybe it has faded too much and I remember it in a more positive way than what it actually depicted, as it has been quite a while since I last saw it.
I love that Joseph completely understands and argues that the character he plays is a "nice guy": someone who is "nice" because he has an agenda, an endgame. He's not an inherently good person. He's good because it's convenient and he can get something from Summer out of it.
The resentment or hate he has for Summer at times doesn't ever go away. Even if Summer fell in love with him in the end, he would always have that resentment for how hard he had to work to get her
Fun fact, if you scroll to the comments of the op-ed Scott wrote, you’ll find a comment from a user named Jenny B! from London, left a decade ago, saying: “I just thought he was a bit of a nerd and far too serious about it all. I was just looking for fun, sorry, Scott. You need to move on.” Possibly a troll, but I thought it was funny that it was there lol.
I think this story is a a great example of how real life people will always be more complicated than the characters and the movies they write, and the gap between art and reality.
Yeah but Sloan has rejected that and must know THE TRUTH... THE TRUTH is we shape our own destiny be actions we take at every moment.. If he had some 'revenge' motivations but then going through writing this story and making the film has come to learn about himself and mistakes of the relationship I call that a success and healthy. But for Sloan, this is a wrong interpretation. The only thing that matters in Sloan's eye is his TRUE intention...
I think I have a parenting win and this analysis backs it up. I told my daughter “nice is something you do, it’s not something you are”. She said it changed her whole perspective and trajectory of dating.
@@e1123581321345589144 I think the point is that a lot of people call themselves nice without backing it up with actions. They think nice just means refraining from being mean.
When I was a boy - it could be 15/16, I don't really know actually - i was feeling very much with Tom. From the opening line 'til the very end. He was someone to be admired for me. The ""Nice Guy"". And I started a - soon then buried - script of an own relationship, that had just ended. Then, rewatching it with 19, Tom felt ... off to me. Ingenuine. But I could't quite put my finger on it. It was more a: "I guess the film is not as good as I remembered", than a "Tom is clearly wrong" but I didn't really know what to make of him - or why I liked the movie so much, when I was younger. And then I watched it two-ish years later - and it clicked. Suddenly I noticed, Summer was being clear from the start - Tom wasn't listening. Then I noticed the rose-colored glasses. Suddenly I felt for Summer - and was very in awe of the script and the execution.
It’s crazy that he was so upset about their dynamic when not only was she incredibly clear about her intentions, but it really seems like he didn’t know who she was. We don’t know anything about her goals or her family or even her likes, besides the smiths I guess.
Probably because as a kid at 15/16, you were dumb, like all kids. You just liked it because the movie made you feel understood. You just wanted someone or something to tell you you were the good guy in your own relationship. When in reality, as you pointed out, you were a “nice guy”. Nice guys are worms. It’s not a good thing to be the dreaded nice guy.
Holy shit I KNEW IT. All through the movie I kept saying to my boyfriend that I didn’t fucking get it. Bc even at the end when he “learns” she’s not the villain i’m like “why did he ever think she was?” the movie is so clearly meant to point out the main character is an asshole but they so so weirdly refused to say it
Asshole is a bit strong, I would say misguided, naïve or selfcentered. A major point is also a lack of real honest self reflection, which is describing probably the vast majority people living in modern concrete cities. This isn't necessarily evil or by choice, it emerges from living a life following the advice of others and not living in accordance with human nature, spirituality or god if you will.
I watched it maybe 10 years ago, so not 100% sure - but yeah the movie definitely shoehorned in that the protagonist is a nice guy, that his views are the only right way to look at things... All that did leave a bitter aftertaste in my mouth - and we never even really got to know summer. He judges her, demands her devotion and attention - and if he doesn't get it, he completely spirals out of control. It is a fine line to walk though - because you can definitely still get hurt in a casual relationship, especially if only one partner develops feelings. In the end though I think it was unfair for him to go into it with his expectations - and be surprised at the end. He should have been honest with her and himself - what he wants is not a casual relationship, so just don't start one 🤗😇
@@theresabu3000 I respectfully disagree. At first it does feel like Tom's way of thinking is the only right way, because the whole movie is from his POV, but there are repeated instances in which it's made clear he's in the wrong. The most obvious ones that come to my mind are the narrator saying that he's got a misguided idea of love and romance because of his misinterpretation of The Graduate, and his tween sister being the voice of reason and telling him "Just because a girl like the same weird things as you doesn't mean she's your soulmate"
I love that because the director saw the movie differently, and the director is a huge part of a move, we weren't completely dragged into the writer's view in the final product 😂
A sequel movie would be "500m of summer" where Tom becomes an architect and made an "ugly and imposing" building then names it Summer. While he thought it was ugly, it would be loved by others for its uniqueness and innovativeness!
@@AkaironoUnko Tom was projecting his fantasies onto his desired profession. He only wanted to be an architect because so many male romance movie characters are architects.
@@cbushin sure, but I still want Tom to just be an architect for revenge because he is delusional and see it as a redemption arc. As to show that he has moved on and achieved "the dream". He will continue to deny that his inspirations stems from revenge and has a hard time understanding/interpreting new buildings... or smth. I'm just suggesting a hypothetical storyline that was honestly just a joke from the beginning. But now I'm invested lol
That sounds like the episode of Spongebob where Squidward had a mental breakdown smashing art supplies together, quitting his art teaching job while leaving behind the mess that ended up an artistic masterpiece
I know this video took a lot out of you, but genuinely, thank you for making it! It perfectly encapsulates why this movie is so interesting to me and how I still find enjoyment rewatching it all these years later. I love this movie, and something that has always bothered me is how people so quickly dismiss it as a "manic pixie dream girl" rom com. Because Summer isn't actually a manic pixie dream girl, Tom just imagines that she is. But she sometimes subverts his expectations, and when she exercises autonomy, he becomes petulant. Unlike a MPDG, she has a *minor* character arc: she didn't believe in love, or soulmates, or fate, and by the end of the movie she does, and not in a way that serves Tom or caters to his fantasies. You could argue that maybe it does serve him, because maybe he's learned from the mistakes he made in their situationship. But I love that the ending where he meets Autumn and learns her name is ambiguous.
I’m glad I found this channel for this reason. I definitely look at and analyze films in a similar way and it’s nice having things I’ve noticed or felt put into a streamlined video like this
The fact that the movie name-drops her in the opening with the *legally required disclaimer* and nobody in legal thought that was a horrible idea is devastating. As for why he changed his position on that one scene all those years later, it's possible he's *actually* grown after he got less defensive of his actions in the relationship and his stand-in's overall, as opposed to immediately post-temper tantrum of a multimillion dollar movie 💀
I'm pretty sure, like anyone after such a long time, he has grown in some ways. However, if we are to believe the video creator doing her analysis, she argues his real motivation and feeling haven't shifted much at all and are only buried beneath a layer of veneer shown to the outside world. I actually dislike the fact that he is so openly criticized on his character, which is something he can probably not really help or truly change. But I guess that's what you get for making such a public piece that openly put out this story and directing it at this specific person where this (most likely) is based on. I still think this is a great movie that is loved and watched by many, this story gives that a bit of a sour taste. It is an original take, something I wasn't exactly looking for or needed, and I really don't know if it was to be made at all. I'm still happy this movie got out there, even if it was actually made with the wrong motives behind it, it still made for a great movie that we can also learn from.
@@pinobluevogel6458personally, I quite like the idea of a piece of art carrying the artist even farther than the inciting idea. Or, you could look at it as some part of him knowing "deep down" enough wisdom to write the film, with the top level, day-to-day conscious awareness taking much longer to catch up.
Honestly, it just makes me suspect that the "standard legal disclaimer" is meaningless, and intends to "protect" the filmmakers from legal hazards which don't exist, or at least aren't present in most circumstances. What cause of action would Jenny Beckman, should she exist, hope to show in court? She didn't write a film for him to steal, and the film itself is hardly slanderous.
@@jeffskarski6644 There is something to be said about someone writing the script for a 'revenge movie' and succeeding with having that script realized into an original, good movie. I think some people are making far too big a deal about this guy's motives or behaviours. Yes, the remark at the beginning and the article are skechy af, but if Summer is supposed to be Jenny Beckman, she comes off as the absolute good person in the story and also wins in the end. Now it would be great if she also won in real life and was happily married. (which wouldn't surprise me at all) In the end I don't mind this whole sequence at all. All great things in life come with sacrifices. In this case the sacrifice was the writer coming off as a bit of a narcissist and there was an attempt to make his former girlrfiend look bad. (which did not succeed) This was also a movie that got both Zoey Dechanel and Joseph Gordon-Levitt more recognition as actors in this space, which to me isn't bad either. I like both of them a lot, JGL in particular for his work in some more off-beat movies.
@@pinobluevogel6458 Yes, I agree, Scott/Tom wasn't being malicious in his self centeredness, and got himself into a situation entirely of his own making but of WHICH the pieces are everywhere to build a self justifying narrative. And whether there was a subconscious Scott behind the doofus, slyly guiding both us and the doofus towards enlightenment, or whether the doofus wrote a revenge story that, once written, starkly demonstrated to him that he was being narcissistically self centered, well, doofus,and set him on the road to being less shitty... it's ultimately not all THAT important. It's fascinating, and worth the video, as long as we can understand that we're just looking at a piece of human behavior under a microscope. Most of us, beyond not being famous enough for anyone to bother, don't leave enough independent evidence for our motives to ever be subject to this sort of scrutiny. Furthermore, and I guess this could ALMOST be construed as a disagreement with the video, but to the extent that we are assuming there's one "true" Scott (even allowing for change over time), that just isn't how people work. We're a mishmash of beliefs and interests and tastes and influences, all in tension, which we usually cannot perceive. There's no one "true" Scott. You'll get different answers from him, depending on how you approach a question, because he's a human being. We're all messy.
Honestly, I find it hilarious that Scott the screenwriter wrote Tom as a self insert and expected the audience to be wholly sympathetic to him while the director and the other people in production were like "Yeah Tom was in the wrong in that scene". Reminds me of "The Last 5 Years musical" where the creator wrote the story about his failed marriage. It posited that both the man and woman (Jamie & Cathy) were equally in the wrong for the failure of their marriage but let's say the audience did not take it that way 😅
I feel like the audience's take on TL5Y has so much to do with direction and casting choice, though. I've seen productions where they feel equally at fault, or where Catchy feels mostly to blame, or Jamie does, or where they both just come off as overly idealistic, naive artists who have no idea what they're doing and are doomed from the start.
@@taylorbowser571 Oh definitely, given it's theatre, the portrayal and hence reception of characters can differ based on the actors. From what I've seen, most people think both Cathy and Jamie are at fault, but the lyrics for "A miracle could happen" did tip the scales a bit 😅
@@KindaErudite definitely! Unless Cathy is portrayed as extremely cold and manipulative, people do not forgive Jamie for that number. I've also notice it vary based on age and personal relationship history. I used to hate Jamie! And then I was in a super miserable relationship with a manipulative person and kinda changed my tune. My favorite thing about that show (and it is perhaps my favorite show) is how many interpretations there are.
@@CrackedPropane And Tom made it very clear he wanted a relationship. Summer said one thing, yet acted another. Often this is dismissed as Tom being an unreliable narator. But Summer shares her part of the responsibility. For example after their big fight, where he states they're a couple, instead of letting Tom go she 'makes up' and kisses him. That's just tempering with poor Tom's emotions p.s. Inviting Tom, with whom she had a history, to her engagementparty without telling him what the party was for or that she was engaged at all is just cruel.
I saw 500 days of summer in theaters, on a first date with a girl. I distinctly remember really not liking Tom after the movie, and I think it left a pretty strong impression on me as to the importance of perception to relationships and what one should bring into a relationship? Me and the girl didn't go on more dates after that and remained friends. I've also not been on a date with anyone after that, been openly aromantic for a fair bit of that time span as well. Probably wouldn't have figured out that side of me without it, so thanks 500 Days of Summer.
There's this scene in the final episodes of HIMYM where Robin is divorced and says she can't stay in the friend group because it's too painful to be around the man he should have married and see how perfect his marriage is. I often think about this movie and its perspective. That line from Robin feels like Ted's interpretation of someone else.
Hmm. Possibly. Have you seen the scene where Robin propositions Ted while he’s with Tracy? It’s a deleted scene that I think makes the ending far more palatable. Ted and Robin did love each other but wanted different things. Robin also was upset when she realised she couldn’t ever have kids.
@@eomoran There are three main reasons why some people couldn't stand HIMYM's original ending. First, some people hate that the writers broke Barney and Robin up despite spending a whole season on their wedding. Second, some people just hate the Ted and Robin pairing. Third, some feel that the finale hints at that Ted was secretly in love with Robin all along, and Tracy was treated as a place holder. For people who believe in one or more of these arguments, I don't think including that Robin deleted scene would have helped. I don't subscribe to any of these arguments, and actually prefer the original ending. However, I think the flaw is in the execution. They failed to stress that so much time have passed that both Ted and Robin are over 50 by the end of the finale. They have both achieved their career and life goals, and spend a lot of time together just as friends since Tracy passed away. Their relationship goals won't be the same as what they were in their 20s and 30s. Also, the kids were too happy after hearing the story. If the writers had the foresight to film a version where the kids were moved to tears but still were there in support of Ted and encourages him after the retelling of story ended, with Ted also in tears, like how Josh Radnor did it during the table read, I think that would have saved the finale for a lot of people.
yeah tom is a great caricature for the “nice guy” trope. he thinks he’s so soft and sensitive because he’s artsy and not your typical “macho man”. but in reality, he’s just as entitled and misogynistic as the macho men. how anyone could walk away from this film empathizing with tom is beyond me. he’s so transparent
I empathize with him a bit. I _do_ think it's a tad uncool to continue hooking up with someone when you know they have deeper feelings or expectations (even unrealistic ones) for how the relationship will turn out. If it's obvious a person is falling in love, don't sleep with them anymore. Set a boundary. Break it off. Otherwise you are allowing them to be self destructive, and that's cruel. That said, it's more stupid to hang onto someone after they've told you they don't want you like that. Like, come on. Have some respect for what they've said they're looking for, and have some respect for yourself and pursue someone who is actually interested. But I don't seem Tom as this misogynistic dickwad everyone else seems to. I just think he's willfully ignorant because he's so desperate for love. He sees what he wants to see. If he'd really looked at Summer more closely, he probably wouldn't have been all that interested. They're not actually compatible outside of their music taste. But he idealized her because of his own loneliness and desire for a romantic storybook ending. I've done that before, as have most young people. It's stupid and immature, but it's not hateful or prejudiced.
@@taylorbowser571 tom is definitely a misogynist. he literally calls summer the b word in the movie. he also does the typical thing misogynists do where he only thinks about what how a woman makes him feel or what she can do for him. he doesn’t love her, he loves the fantasy image of her that he made up in his head. he also gets incredibly whiny and angry at her constantly bc he’s a manchild who can’t take responsibility for his own actions. he’s mad because the fantasy version of summer he conjured up doesn’t exist, and he can’t stand that reality doesn’t match up with his delusions. he doesn’t know anything about summer beyond very surface level things, and he only cares about those things because 1. they service him in some way or 2. they’re things he’s also interested in. that’s the entire point of the movie. media literacy is dead
@@coolchameleon21 I mean, I hate to break it to you, but those really aren't gendered behaviors or examples of prejudice. It's simple selfishness and willful ignorance. Not every bad action is a reflection of some internal bias. Crappy, selfish women also ignore men's needs and see what they want to see. The movie could've easily been gender swapped, and the themes as intended would still be very much in tact. I do agree that the point of the movie is Tom's blindness and self-destructive selfishness born of his desperation. But I don't think that that makes anybody a misogynist. Wild take implying that b-tch is a slur. It must be genuinely exhausting seeing bigotry in everything that way.
@@taylorbowser571 I hate to break it to you, but if the genders were swapped the movie would have been perceived and discussed way differently and everyone would be arguing what a b the selfish women is, again, as always.
@@professormeow3399 are people not, for the most part, arguing that tom is extremely selfish and unsympathetic? you're kinda undermining yourself, there. even I, who do empathize with him, have been harsher on tom than summer. I honestly think that if the movie had been flipped, the opinion would mostly be that the hypothetical male "summer" character was a player and a manipulator, and that the hopeless romantic protagonist was naive but deserved better. audiences aren't exactly in favor of men who prefer casual hook-ups. and, really, we're primed to root for the protagonist regardless of who they are just because of narrative structure. though, with time, perceptions would've shifted in a similar way to what we see now. in my opinion the catalyst for shifting perceptions about the movie was less about a gradual change in discourse surrounding gender than discourse surrounding communication, especially regarding sex. 10-15 years ago, saying "I prefer to keep things casual" but continue going out with someone was seen as mixed messages. Now, the predominant idea in progressive spaces is that as long as you set a boundary verbally, your actions cannot actually undermine it and any confusion from others is them "not listening". And casual sex is way more accepted. for what it's worth, though I did say themes as intended, and not as interpreted. Obviously people are gonna bring their own gendered biases to anything they watch. On average, women root for Summer, and men root for Tom, because we champion who we can most easily relate to.
Him name dropping her AND writing an article naming her is messed up. if an ex writes a story about our relationship, I wouldn't be thrilled, but I would be pissed as hell if he dropped my name.
Happened to my brother once, the woman in question wrote an article about him (without using his name, luckily) claiming all these horrible things he and his friends did to her, from neglecting her when she was s*icidal to making antisemetic/racist comments behind her back (our family is also jewish…). Folks like that will spin any story to make themselves look like the victim :/
The scary thing I think Joseph g Levitt got the movie pretty well. I mean..differently to how scott got it. He had people approaching him saying 'i loved your character! What a (any mean word for a woman) summer was! And Joseph was like...'im not..I'm not the good guy in this'. Scott said at the end of the video ,'a lot of other people were on summers side...and how can that be?' but... They weren't. Not at the time of release. This movie is praised for being ahead of its time but scott saying 'how could people be on her side?' ...that's scary to me. He must have known people might hate summer if he is annoyed people are on her side...and if he in any way sent that hate to her l...vague or otherwise...that's not just petty. We've seen what so called 'nice guys' can do. Maybe not as much in 2009 but still...people can find people online with less information. That's scary to me that there could be that much anger that she could be in danger
"I will eviscerate you in fiction. Every pimple, every character flaw. I was naked for a day; you will be naked for eternity". - Geoff Chaucer, A KNIGHT'S TALE That's the thing with artistic types. Get on their bad side, and you may well find yourself immortalized in ways you really don't want. See "You're So Vain" by Carly Simon, "You Oughta Know" by Alanis Morrissette, and every other song by Beyonce and Taylor Swift.
The majority of Beyonces songs are how she loves Jay. Even Lemonade was about forgiving him for cheating, choosing to keep the family together. She doesn't fit this.
I think that's the only positive of them being so self-absorbed they don't know you. Just as Scott, they end up inmortalizing someone who's anything but you. And just like with this movie, people will find the author's whole truth before any detail that's true to you. It's all just their confused and petty revenge. Edit: I wrote this before I reached the part where his ex reads the script and relates to Tom. Summer was so far removed from his ex that not even her could recognize herself in his writing. I hope she eventually laughed about it, it's the best reaction to have.
any teens watching this with this idealised idea of what being an adult looks like in your 30s, im telling you right now, i recently turned 30 and there are very few people my age who are even remotely under what i would call "adult" most of them still behave like spoilt children but instead of growing into respectable adults, they just got better at being selfish Aholes. Do not ever think that anyone older than you is automaticlly more mature and better than you, always let their behaviour dictate the level of respect you should give.
this!! i had a traumatic childhood and grew up too fast, remember being a teen and idolizing adulthood because i thought that only then will i be happy, and i believed everyone would’ve matured by then and things were going to be great. spent my late teens and all my twenties working on myself and building myself up, only to now be 30 and see that most have no clue what they are doing, some have settled into victimhood mentality and live their life in a constant state of crisis, maturity has been the last thing i have seen. it makes me so sad, but i still have hope i will eventually find my way into the right room of people who perhaps have a similar journey of maturing into adulthood.
CORRECTION: He loves the IDEA of her and the chase of winning her like some special object. He actually hates her for not loving him back the way he wants.
@@TheOMGRamending! ding! ding! correct! some people can’t differ from true love and idealized love. one loves the person for exactly who they are, the other falls in love with the idea of a person with zero consideration of who they truly are.
My head cannon is that Scott did in fact change how he views the movie after others pointed out how his interpretation was had some issue, although maybe not in a way that allows him to at might fault with his earlier interpretation.
Mine too. He wrote a revenge movie and he was surrounded by talented people who could find the greater lessons from it which in turn helped him learn something about himself and grow as a person. Kind of a lovely story (unless Scotty still doesn't know)
Even in the directors cut example we are shown, it always struck me that he was very clearly listening to the opposing perspectives presented. And the fact that his words and later years Echo what he was told, furthers this idea that he was listening and has changed his perspective and grown.
The irony of a movie about someone who misunderstands romcom pop culture itself becomes misunderstood romcom pop culture, to the level that the film's stars have to make regular videos about how it's not a love story, is delicious. My younger self can relate to Tom. It's only when you understand the difference between being in love WITH someone and being in love AT someone that you can find true love. There's something wonderful about recognising that the person you love is falling in love with you AT THE SAME TIME that makes you realise that what you knew before wasn't real love.
I love that you said that because me and my ex used to argue often about unrequited love, he thought it was totally a thing while I've always thought that it isn't, because you can't truly love someone who doesn't love you back, love doesn't really work that way.
he really made a whole career out of him being dumped by some girl. also it gives me the creeps to think about all these people laughing at his comment about him knowing that she unfriended him on facebook THE DAY the movie came out like its a cute quirk to be as petty and obsessive as this. dont get me wrong, i'm also petty and obesessive, but if i made it a cute character trait of mine people wouldnt think its cute
@@jossypoothe person commented 17 times on this video and has a vocabulary entirely made up of internet buzz words but they also don’t know what any of them mean 😭 they’re a waste of time just ignore them
Summer is not the villain for not feeling the same, but it takes growth to understand it. the grief he experienced went through all the 5 stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance. probably when he was writing the script he was still in the anger state.
God I hate when people beat to death the 'Death of the Author'. Disregarding authorial intent is *one* possible framework of literary analysis. Yea, you can do that. Just like you can consider that all creative works are necessarily informed by the time, place, and culture of the creator. Post-Structuralism isn't superior to New Historicism just because it has a quippy essay title you can read off the back of your hand.
@@philiple4182 I personally interpret the "Death of the Author" that when a work is put out, all the meaning you need and can take with you is within the work itself. Not that the work was made in a vacuum, but that anything left out or put in is there for you to read into, but nothing more. Like how J.K Rowling likes to retcon anything on twitter, or how Disney is deflecting to other sources when they get caught in inconsistencies with Star Wars. Of corse an author is shaped by their environment, but a work should be seen by itself. Lord of the Rings is not a retelling of how it was in the Trenches during the war, even tho it largely shaped the books, you can take that into account if you wish, but if you want to read into or analyze the work, you dont need to.
@@Fixti0n Which is fine. You can interpret art through any framework you want. You can even claim New Criticism or Post Structuralism are the superior lenses! Just don't be surprised when you get pushback from New Historicists or Biographical Critics, for, you know, not subscribing to your pet literary theory. Because I'm certainly not going to pretend like people aren't using Death of the Author to blithely excuse still-living-piece-of-shit-creators-who-stand-to-materially-benefit-from-consumption-of-their-art.
@@philiple4182 Hey, i may subscribe to the death of the author theory, but dont you dare lump me in with the Post Structuralists! That is taking it a step too far.
@@philiple4182you talking bout Harry Potter? I hear ye and if I had the heart I would try and reread the series with who JK has revealed herself to be, regardless of how deathly hollow her authorial voice has become. But I agree, I studied literature and people gave post-structuarlism and death of the Author WAAAAAY too much leeway.
completely agree. I'm less concerned with the prospect of Scott still being salty after all these years and moreso the fact that he practically doxxed a woman in front of thousands/millions of people, multiple times
The reason why people say to write what you know is that when you draw on lived experience, you are bringing in all the little factors that shaped that experience, even the ones you're not aware of. As cringy as it is to see the "nice guy" telling his side of the story, drawing so heavily on his own life is what creates the little details that so effectively show Tom's self-centered perspective.
Growing up is realizing both are the problems and it all started at the bar they are telling each other they are not compatible but are going into a relationship that was destined to fail.
Tom was wrong for idealizing Summer and not listening to her. I don't think Summer was necessarily wrong. She was upfront about not wanting commitment but Tom didn't accept the truth. Summer could write in a massive neon sign that she doesn't want anything serious and Tom would still hope he could change that by being "not like the other guys" or "showing true love". Some might see Summer as an hypocrite because she met true love after breaking up the situationship with Tom and married another dude, but people change and go through different stages in life. Also, they were incompatible for anything more than friends with or without benefits despite a strong chemistry that could work for a friendship.
@@saparapatepetenah, she was wrong for leading him and not having any boundaries, why she was still with him after he was talking about wanting to be together and couldn’t see at in other way
@@GoSkaTeproductions it's always interesting to me when people say this because why is she in charge of handling a GROWN man's feelings? She made it clear from the beginning. He should've left
@kalakings3358 Because both parties are at fault. Summer allowed the delusion to continue. Knowing who Tom was and how he viewed love. I acknowledge Tom is childish, but you can't put it all on his shoulders.
This is the reason I'm subscribed to your channel. I watched 500DoS when it dropped, and it reflected a failed relationship that I just had been going through. I love the part where you were like: «Why didn't the writer put in a "Sorry Jenny, I was wrong. No one is at fault here" at the end?» Nailed it. Absolutely nailed it!
The writer either believed he was wrong, when judging his own motives and morals along to the opinions of others that are more in line with generally accepted morals and human feelings, or he still doesn't believe that but only publicly says he does. If this stems from autistic traits in his personality or narcisstic ones, we can only speculate.
This completely changes my view of the conveniently chosen lines "I'm the hero of the story, don't need to be saved" in the Expectation v. Reality scene of the movie.
this video helped me a lot. I was going thru a situationship very similar to the one in the movie. I was aware how it would end but i couldn't stop thinking about him and falling in love. This video made me realize that if he told me something important about his life, i would act like tom and instead of treating him like a human i would overthink what does that mean to our situationship. I looked him from afar and i realized that he might be someone that i WANT, but he isn't someone that i NEED. And i ended the situationship in a healty way. Now i feel peace and calm, mixed with a little bit of saddness. Thank you
Maybe the film does such a good job of presenting the pov of a childish, slighted manchild cause cause he still was one. It took the reception of the film and the commentary of gordon-levitt for him to realize: ”shit. Im the asshole”.
@@pinobluevogel6458 Yeah cuz that's the easy part. JGL is an outside perspective. If you write your own stand-in, you automatically sympathize with him to a certain extent, trying to explain your actions. When someone LEARNS to be a character, they have much deeper insight. That's why (good) therapy works: It makes you take a look at yourself from the outside.
21:20 yes yes yes. I’ve always struggled to put this into worlds for all people. Often people aren’t naturally acting but acting how they think they should act
Imagine outing yourself as the stalker you are via creating a movie detailing your obsessive tendencies and thEN SHOWCASING how much you haven't changed and are STILL stalking this woman THROUGH! INTERVIEWS! FOR THE MOVIE! jeZUS PETES
Commenting again after watching all the way through, and wanted to say first of all that this was fascinating! The final scene of the film is so unintentionally funny to me and I think it reinforces your argument. The woman at the end of the film introduces herself as Autumn. On the one hand, I feel like this was intended to illustrate how Tom has moved on and matured from Summer, but on the other hand it suggests that Tom is about to repeat the same relationship with a new girl. His relationship with Summer was just part of a larger pattern for him, one that he has no intention of breaking any time soon. Seasons change, but Tom never will.
Lol. I always interpreted the ending as a repeating cycle. Seasons are just a brief part of the time, that you just repeat every year. I just thought Tom never learnt anything, and was gonna have another failing relationship. Another 500 days but of autumn 😂
wow this was great!! I have long heard the pop culture interpretation of 500 days of summer as a one-sided, unreliable narrator relationship, but i’ve never heard the context behind it and the writers decision to include his real ex in his bitter publishing pieces and marketing. the attitude he holds around this woman makes this entire movie cast in a completely different light. thank you!! great job!!
If the film is taken as summer being the villain, but critiqued as summer not being the villain, but even deeper-critiqued as the villain - then the whole thing reverts to a face value meaning, that summer is meant to be the villain, the manic pixie dream girl survives, and media literacy includes your gut instinct. This reminds me of Lolita, and the BRILLIANT video by Man Carrying Thing where he discusses by analysing the authors life and other works, Lolita transforms from a overt normalisation, to a clever critique of the issue, then all the way back to fetishisation.
This actually makes so much more sense. I was so confused why they would make this movie and then get upset that people (often men) got the wrong idea about it and hated not only Summer the character, but Zoey Deschanel the actress who played her. If you make a movie that is so unclear as to its message that 50% of the viewers leave thinking the exact opposite of the intention, you have failed. I am glad that there has been so much discussion after the fact about this movie to right the wrongs, but it does make way more sense that this was maybe the intention all along. That it was a revenge story. That the movie itself was revenge. That he wanted people to blame Summer. I hope that his 'corrections' after the fact were because he saw what was happening to Zoey and how no one else that worked on the film agreed with his interpretations. How toxic the people who agreed with him were. And maybe, just maybe, he finally realized that he actually was in the wrong.
I disagree with the idea that a movie fails if it is not interpreted the way "its supposed to". I dont like that idea because it is an insult to the audience intelligence, and "being more clear" about the message would straight up make it a worse movie. This is the discussion of media literacy that has picked up recently. Writers *have* to trust that most audiences wont take everything at face value. And I say "most" because of course there will be groups of people that are less intelligent, younger, or seek to engage with media in bad faith. And also, I believe that the discussion sorounding this movie, even if it is between a couple exiting the theater, is what makes the movie (and its message) valuable. If someone sees themselves in Tom and someone else was bothered by him, that can lead to examining his own life on a different perspective.
This movie is great not because it’s mature, but because it’s written from the perspective of an emotionally immature 25 year old with minimal understanding of romantic relationships. In tom’s vision, he is a protagonist that can do no wrong, trying to complete the hero’s journey. In our perspective, tom portrays summer’s faults without emphasizing his own. He makes her seem aloof, able to drop everything and play pretend. But from my own headcanon, summer’s only fault is not having a perspective. Maybe she tries to communicate her problems with Tom. Maybe she cried behind closed doors trying to make things work. Often times, the end of relationships are plagued with miscommunication and betrayal because one side tries their best to support the other and give the same amount, but ends up failing. And they don’t want to fail, they want to make things work and continue that honeymoon phase the other person seems to be in, but it’s not easy, especially with someone like tom, who’s overly romantic. It also makes it more difficult to communicate your emotions. In that situation, no one is at fault. Both people can’t communicate, both people are at fault, both people were unable to change for each other. Really wish someone would make that perspective, similar to the pair of movies Lost in Translation and Her. If so, the comparison would help put 500 days of summer into better context. Hate that this is a “revenge movie” but still think there’s some value, although my views have changed over time
This is a perspective I can relate to. It pierces through the painful issues the writer might have had to put this into the world and focuses on the important aspects that this movie is about. For a 'revenge piece', there are a surprising number of things that are relatable and real about this movie and this is exactly why it resonated with so many people. The hidden things that were pointed out as a main issue with the movie never really mattered, as nobody knew them. We could see the main protagonist's flaws, but that was about it. This 'narrative' about the writer has taken too much of a main focus and more or less distracts from all the great things this movie does show. Especially that this is a massive deviation from other movies, in that it shows actual young 18-28 yr old guys things they can learn from. The average romantic comedy is devoid of any realism and is precisely the thing that 'creates' misguided people like the protagonists of the main storyline, if they believe what is depicted in them is anywhere close to reality.
I think this is a really valid position to have. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a character that has parts of your personality in your writing, but full-on self-insert characters are tricky because even if you have the best intentions, you can't write that character objectively, even if the character is well written. So you can potentially write a good self-insert, but that doesn't mean you fully understand how that self-insert is portrayed, because the hardest thing for a person to see, is himself. Everyone has a distorted view of themselves for better or worse. It's kind of how our recorded voice sounds weird to our own ears, even though that's what we sound like to everyone else.
I feel like the motivation to write the film can come from a place of ambivalence: the act of writing a film such as this can simultaneously be an act of revenge, coming from his hurt ego, and an act of growth and change; the part of the psyche that grows and accepts the breakup, understands it's for the better can have just as much of a voice as the part that is hurt and will remain hurt for a long time. I really believe that these feelings co-exist within a person when someone is heartbroken.
I went into this video hating Tom, and came out of it realizing that I am Tom (and i got issues to work on), hating the writer behind this movie that I had never thought about before, and finding a new channel to subscribe to. awesome analysis!!!
This is legitimately one of the best movie videos essays I have ever seen. It's absolutely fantastic and completely recontectualized a very formative story for me. I think that everyone has the capacity to be an unreliable narrator of their own lives. It's probably the most common sin. I always think of the amazing lyrics by the band - The Silent Years - "Everyone wants a portrait of themselves, preferably cast in a favorable light." I think this man most likely wanted to make a story about how 'nice guys' get screwed by uncaring women and then will get a happy ending, as a way to try and convince himself. It's telling he was in a relationship, but not in a strong committed relationship during this fiasco. I think he did write a propaganda piece based on misogyny and the fallacy of the nice guy in order to try and make himself the hero. But a movie, being a collaborative art did a remarkable job of hiding it. But that illusion is shattered, but I think the movie is valuable if you can ignore the dissonance from that opening line and the fact you're no longer ignorant to the writers intent. Sometimes you paint a flower and it becomes a symbol of feminism because people see vagina. Sometimes a man makes a petty hate film and it goes down as a story about feminism for men. But the cracks will never be invisible again and I thank you for helping me learn something new about the world.
I think it's interesting to think about how movies get "steered" by so many people who might have different intentions. The screenwriter had his own intentions at the time of writing. The director and leading actors had different ones, apparently. Except for the very last scene with Autumn, the perspective of the director and actors dominated my viewing experience. So I would say the script was the set-up for a revenge movie, but the final product feels like a critique of Nice Guys looking for their MPDG.
This was fan-fucking-tastic! He definitely gives nice guy vibes in his interviews. I think you nailed it about the subtext of his interviews and how his answers changed. I especially like the bit you found where JGL and the other writer were saying something different and then slowly dude's answered changed to match theirs, excellent research!
I am beyond stupid! I remember watching this movie years ago and being so angry that I didn't understand the movie. "HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO LEARN ABOUT BOTH CHARACTERS?!?! EVERYTIME SHE TALKS, THEY FOCUS BACK ON HIM!!!" yeah....stupid! That's the point!😂😂😂 It took you, saying it out loud for me to finally get it!
I feel like it is universally accepted everyone in the movie are human. In the beginning she made it clear she wasn't looking for a relationship. He didn't listen and lied to himself hoping he could change her. I wouldn't say there is a classic villian in this story. People are human.
Yeah alot of the comments are making it a gendered issue. When it isnt, its a human issue. Tom is a character that immediately fell in love with a girl and he projected what he thinks the person is. That is an innately human experiemce, everyone has been in love with someone without knowing them and imagine how they live their life to the pount you arent in live with the person but the idea of the person
@@danielshore1457 It is a human issue, yeah. Though I would say there is a strong leaning towards men being & behaving similar to Tom's character, without any proof; just from my lived experience & observation. But regarding your third sentence? I'd highly question if everyone imagines what a person is like, when "in love", without knowing them. Especially when you then actually end up in a relationship with this person & continue to imagine scenarios, how or what this person feels & is, or should be, like.
I feel like almost everyone has gone through this kind of “limerence” where you like someone who doesn’t like you back and you create fantasies about them in your head. As a 15 year old I had my first crush and I was Tom, she was venting to me and my thoughts were “wow she’s letting me in I must be important.” Which only fed the into the delusion. It was totally selfish and now being 21 I’m filled with regret rightfully so, still hurt by some things that happened but I can reflect on it and realize where I was in the wrong. The fact that the director wrote this and basically waved it in her face and the whole “bitch” line is wild and shows how emotionally immature this dude is, thank god the actor portrayed the character differently. It’s like this film was an accidental masterpiece as you said
I've had lots of crushes but never had even the faintest reciprocity. Even now, in my mid 30s with a good partner I've built a great relationship with, I wonder what it would have been like if I was able to make good on any of my crushes. It probably would have turned out like this movie - I'd still be delusional about the person right in front of me. I take comfort in that
i loved loved loved this video, thank u so much for posting that “in case you missed it” post. i’ve loved this movie for so long and loved your analyses recently, this feels like a video made specifically for me
This has been my favorite movie for years. The first time i saw it (I was 14) there had never been a piece of media or a character that resonated with me so much. As I got older, and often found myself more on the Summer side of relationships, my favorite movie changed right under my nose and I began to understand it was really intended. And I have to say, this video has cracked it wide open for me! You’ve managed to put into words the issues with both my perspective as a teenager, and the boys who “loved” me but couldn’t tell me a thing about myself - via this movie. This video is a gem, thank you.
What an absolute trip this was. Thank you, Sloan, for providing so much nuance and insight into the story and its background. What seems like such a simple story at first glance is actually one that is multi-layered, complex, confusing, and polarizing when all of these layers are peeled back. I can understand the research for this movie must have been mind-boggling at times, so thank you! You did an excellent job!
So after all it wasnt a coincidence or bad PR that the movie was misunderstood in the first run. So glad the director and Joseph Gordon levitt had a different vision. Its very funny to me that after theyve settled on a final message the author then was forced to go from interview to interview critiquing tom and therefore himself. Hope Jenny got a good laugh out of it.
I've never really viewed this movie as having a hero or villain, to me this film is just a subjective look at a very real perspective some people have when viewing their relationships. I consider myself a hopeless romantic so its pretty easy to place myself inside the shoes of someone like Tom or Ted Mosey because I've tended towards a lot of the same trains of thought and over-romanticization of my life as they do in their artificial ones. Sure, the film may exaggerate some of the emotional aspects for drama but at its core there is a story of love and hope and loss and pain that many men and women can resonate with.
Yes! I don't understand the hate Tom's character gets. He fell in love with love and the feeling he thought it could give him. Summer chose not to act on her words and kept coming back to him. They are both to blame and very very not compatible.
Whether Tom/Scott is the hero, the villain, or just a character, one thing is for certain. He is very much human. Thats why I love this movie so much. Not only does it have a great soundtrack, great acting, dazzling use of color and solid humor, but it also feels more real than any other rom com I've seen. I've been Tom before. I've also been Summer. I hope I have learned from both, and that I don't carry around my own personal disclaimer about Jenny Beckman.
you just made me realize how i love this movie, I watched as a teenager and at that time the discourse was that summer was the villain, since then tom became the villain and now it is just way more complex than that, is about romantism and rose colored lenses and narratives, misoginy, male gaze, MPDG... its a layered movie with so much to think and feel and on a superficial level is a really fun movie to watch... it is a masterpiece really
I'm surprised at the confusion, of course Tom has grown and of course he still holds feelings of resentment. Growing and accepting doesn't mean you are now perfect.
If you've ever had your heart broken, it's easy to sympathize with Tom. At first, you alternate between hating and missing the person. Over time, you accept that the relationship wasn't right. After many months or years, you can look back and see places where you were in the wrong. That takes time. It's so insightful that "Jenny" related more to Tom after reading the script. Almost all of us experience this sort of rejection and the pain of it sticks out in our minds much more than when we were the ones doing the rejecting.
This was incredible to watch and the first video of yours I came across randomly in my feed. I first watched this movie when it came out and I definitely gravitated to Tom as the victim because of a situation I had gone through. And with the benefit of hindsight I shared a lot of Tom’s negative qualities. I think I still share some. And that isn’t a comforting thought. Seeing them dissected like this is almost like a therapy. Great insights. I never viewed the movie from these perspectives and it was very enjoyable. Subscribed.
This made me consider that if the author is relevant to media analysis, then we should include both conscious intention and unconscious bias. Thanks for making me think!
Brilliant video. Loved the second half. You're very talented! Also a great movie to watch as your barometer for emotional maturity. I'll admit when I was in my teens I completely related to Tom, and understood the film as straight on. Now I see it for what it is, and that makes it so much more interesting.
I always love your analyses. When I first saw this movie, I was all "This should have been called '90 Days of Summer'. Why she had anything to do with him past that makes no sense." I always saw him as the villain, and at the end he hadn't really learned anything or grown. I felt bad for Autumn. And, yeah. Scott is totally gaslighting on what the intent of the original script/movie was.
I love the scene when they show him going to the party and his expectation vs reality. That was such an eye opener we don’t always realize how differently someone else can view us or the world around them. I always wanted a movie from Summers perspective but I guess I made it myself cause I had a few relationships like this.
I love this analysis! Never thought of the movie that way before. I honestly think this movie is something every teen should see at least once, and every adult should see multiple times. Such a rich movie about selfish love even if the writers didn't intend it
shared this movie with my crappy "friend" group in high school. They all hated Summer and praised Tom. I stopped sharing movies and trusting their judgment after that.
@@aliciasegunda3555 have some sympathy, i first watched this movie as a 15 year old boy going through a rough break-up and its all through the "dudes" perspective, its like literally baiting your vulnerabilities and then semi validates them, i think most people without an open perspective, would see it in a similar way
@@thedarpside9480 you can see all the flaws in Summer by all the mixed signals she sent, and also Tom's flaws with being so permissive in regards, but hating her and seeing her like completely the horrible bad guy? I think that's not a good sign
Dude i love videos like this. Not only an analysis, but an adventure through its inception ? This immence sloothage, and detevtive work. Im stoked to see whats next
I always really loved the scene where Tom tells Summer, "I guess I'm not just anyone." I honestly consider it to be my favorite scene in the whole movie. It does such a good job showing how much Tom never really cares about Summer as a person. Mostly, it comes from the way the narrator speaks over what Summer says so we can't really hear her. I thought the movie did such a good job using the narrator here to place us in Tom's perspective. If we can't hear what Summer says, neither can Tom. Which makes the part where Summer says, "I've never told anyone that before," so impactful. She obviously told him something that she considers to be very important to her, and he doesn’t even acknowledge it. I always roll my eyes to the back of my head when Tom responds to her, making it about himself. I thought it was a great scene that support your point about the narrator being like an extension of Tom in a way. Hearing the writer talk about his interpretation of this scene is so interesting because the scene feels so intentional to me. I mean, of course, he isn’t the only one working on the movie. You have the actors, the director, the editor, the cinematographer, and so many others. They also played their roles in giving this scene its meaning, but I’m kinda shocked to see how he refutes other people’s interpretation of the scene. Like we really NEED to understand where Tom was coming from or something. But I thought it was so clear where he was coming from. And I have to say, when I recently showed my friend this movie for the first time, he had a similar interpretation, and I was surprised to hear it. After watching this scene, my friend let out an “ooooohhhh, I think I know where this movie is going.” He thought from this point on, it would be a movie about how Tom’s character teaches Summer how to love. Basically breaking her out of her “I don’t believe in love” point of view and allowing her to open up to love. It was interesting because before this point, he sorta saw through Tom, and by the end, he also felt like Tom was pretty delusional. He even cringed at when Tom said what he said in this scene. But, he still thinks Tom will get the girl in the end. I thought maybe his interpretation came from the fact that this movie presents as a typical romcom, so he expected a get-together ending despite the contradictory claims at the beginning of the movie. By the way, great video! Had be hooked from the beginning!! 🖤💜
I do like how this movie sort if unintentionally subverts typical romcoms because you coukd view it as Tom as the "other giy" character in the romcom that the female lead may have been dating at the start or is meant to date but diesnt really love him. As it is revealed towards the end of the film Summer is engaged and in love, which you could view that as her finding the lead man in a typical romcom.
I just want to get my views on it from when I first saw it to now. 16 year old me: "Oh...The movie is about a guy who was not her soulmate. You can see that from Summer's wedding how happy she looks, as well as we are never being told the full picture through her side of things and only the guy. But also with him getting with Autumn at the end feels like he is going to a cycle, which I feel means, since he is seeing these relationship as seasons despite the 500 days part. it shows how he views the relationships, which in turn I believe is him in this state of not really growing no matter the days. He is is going to repeat a cycle no matter what, and never grow or learn why these relationship's failed. As well as be alone at the end of his life because of it." Me a 33 year old: "WOW! This guy is hella toxic, and I still feel he is going to die alone."
This video is so validating. I felt like such an asshole watching this movie bc I couldn’t get over how I didn’t vibe with the message the movie was trying to tell me at all, even after telling myself it was supposed to be self aware
The message is up for interpretation. I interpreted it as "Don't get your expectations of romance from watching movies, not even this one." Tom did and he paid. I am not sure everyone got the same thing even if they agree with me that Tom was the villain. I think Tom never learned and was being set up to fail again with Autumn, but that was left open-ended.
Its possible that Scott grew as a person through making this book and movie and going on tours talking about it. That it drew out deeper lessons from his own life he could learn from. Which is kind of lovely in a way
This was so well made and had very keen observations (made my lil ADHD heart so nourished). Any time I’ve rewatched this movie, Tom looks worse and worse. Very possessive, self involved and delusional. His biggest sin is his lack of listening. Summer was upfront about her views on love and completely incompatible with Tom. He didn’t offer her anything as a romantic partner except a whole lot of unrealistic expectations!
This was a really great video. I learned so much about this movie and its production that I didn’t know. I feel like on some ways I can appreciate the story more and in other ways it infuriates me somehow even more than the initial watch did. My girlfriend and I watched 500 days of summer last year and it was both of our first times watching it. We ended the movie so upset because Tom was such a bad person… he called her a bitch before they met, he said he doesn’t like how other women dress provocative and said he liked how she (summer) dressed and she just responded “different people like different things” or something like that, and yet apparently we were supposed to leave the movie thinking there was no villian? I understand that people and relationship and stories are nuanced but it was especially frustrating since things were from Tom’s perspective. My girlfriend and I are lesbians and we saw it as another case of a “nice guy”
This movie clearly isn't meant for you. I mean, it can still give you something to think about, but if it doesn't leave you with some sense of wholefulness and hope, I think you are not the audience for this movie at all.
@@pinobluevogel6458 I suppose not, I’m not a spiteful ex. but I am an average person that watches movies and you don’t always have to be the intended audience to enjoy a movie. I just personally didn’t find it enjoyable even though it was structured in an interesting way so I was just sharing my opinion since this video addresses some of the reasons I specifically didn’t enjoy it.
@@pinobluevogel6458 Sorry, straight guy here: How could the movie leave you with hope, when you interpret it as Tom being the "problem"? It ends with him meeting autumn. If that isn't "I am the hero of a rom-com and this must be fate, this must be my "one"", I don't know what is.
Sounds like it. This sounds like the very mindset of a "nice guy." I can't stand "nice guys." I don't mind guys who are genuinely kind, but we both know "nice guys" aren't that.
@@LizzyThewolf Your opinion is not 'wrong' in any way. It is subjective wether you like a film or not, or a character in it or even parts of it. I was just baffled by how many people disliked the movie all of a sudden, despite it being seen as a really great movie when it came out and a real classic ever since.
I feel like a lot of women can relate to a guy projecting his own idea of us on to us. Then one day he says or does something and it makes you realize he doesn't actually know ME or like ME. He likes what ever idea he has created of me. It such a sinking feeling thinking someone sees you and realizing you were just a physical vessel for the world they created inside their head.
I remember when this movie came out and everyone HATED Summer and loved Tom. My friend and I came out of the theater saying that we didn’t actually know Summer. Just Tom’s version.
For me, Summer isn't evil but she's definitely not in the right either. Neither one of them are villains in my eyes, they're two very broken people who should not be in a relationship, situationship or any kind of "arrangement" whatsoever. What REALLY gets to me is when people go, "well, she SAID she didn't want to be in a relationship" as if that gets her off, scott-free, from anything she says or does afterwords. Sorry, but no. You don't get to say "I'm not looking for a relationship," then treat your FWB exactly, indistinguishably like he's your boyfriend/partner/significant other, complete with emotional ties, then play the "but I said at the very beginning the thing that now absolves me of anything I did afterwards" card. You don't get to have it both ways - you don't get to pretend your FWB is your boyfriend, and then discard him without a second thought like he's a toy or a living sex doll without any emotions or feelings of his own. What Tom SHOULD have done was the night that she came back to him after their fight, when he made it clear that he wanted to be a couple, was make it clear to her that if they weren't together then he would walk. He should have recognized a toxic situationship when he saw it and had the self-respect to walk away from her, to end it himself.
I believe the quote was kept in because thats what fueled the artistry of the film as an artist myself when I write a song I’m in the moment of that “feeling” regardless of knowing if I’m in the wrong or not but by the time I record or perform it I’m more or less over it and can see it from different perspectives but still have to tap into that original mindset to make it feel authentic again from the conception of those thoughts TLDR: Artistic projects are a time capsule that an artist can tap in and out of regardless of growth because those initial thoughts bad or good helped make a beautiful piece
I haven't watched all of this but I can't help but see the parallels with Nabokov's Lolita. The narrator and the positioning of "truth" within the story with a liar and manipulator.
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*This shares a LOT with **_Sunshine of the Spotless Mind._*
If this movie was from the little sister's perspective it would have been an Oscar winning indie drama about a little girl losing her childhood because she's taking care of her mentally unwell older brother.
i was just thinking that if it was made from summer’s perspective, it would almost be a thriller or horror
@@theriveroftruth I doubt it she doesn't seem scared just disinterested
That will be a neat idea, it can challenge the concept of the 'traditional' family Hierarchy that older siblings must be the star child and have to be caretaker for there younger siblings
But that could simply be toms perspective @@len4129
Summer is awful in this movie! She manipulates him the entire time
I am very glad, that Joseph Gordon-Levitt isn't there, thinking he plays the good guy, the victim, but knowing exactly, what he was doing, having an aware view on his character.
Love him ❤
Such a good actor 💜
Jo-Go-Lev is definitely an intelligent dude. One of the few great actors from my generation.
@user-73a No, your male version of Summer sounds like an insufferable hipster I would dislike as well. Anything else you want to tell me how I feel about?
I saw an interview with Joseph Gordon-Levitt when he made Don Jon and in that interview he talks about how that character and Tom are the same sort of person.
It's absolutely wild that the director and actors understood the themes of the movie more than the writer. You're right, people can misinterpret their own work if it's based on their experience and they are grossly misinterpreting their experience
many creatives do not have this ability of self reflection
It's a kinda wild because I've seen this movie as a subversion of normal romcoms. It's the nice guy protagonist who "deserves" to get the manic pixie dream girl, except it's not because those aren't real ppl they're tropes. It's about seeing the fallacy in that story. Even I as a young college kid who never had a real relationship could see that.
But that's exactly what life is like - everybody has been in a situation where their friend is talking about their "one" and you're like "what the hell??" And I think that trying to judge if the writer gets it or not based on interviews from different times isn't really valid - when we are wrong in a relationship it can take a long time to mature and realize all the ways we were wrong. You might see some aspects and then with time you see more and more. So I actually think the writer is doing a good job reflecting on this as time goes by. When I watched the film I also got the "there are no villains here" feeling - just a really immature guy, and we are all immature at some point.
@avp6730 I also feel that way, years later after watching it a couple of times. In the end break up will still leave other with a feeling "what did I do wrong?" Or "Damn I really was an ass at the end" alive felt like that even after maturing. It really does take 20/20 to see what you did and did not do. It does suck that some adults go through this cause we all hope we left those immature thoughts and action back in our younger days.
Sometimes it takes a third party to see your story.
you had me at "what if the unreliable narrator in the movie is the guy who wrote it?"
He must be spewin they cast a femboy in his ultraalpha plot
He is
It's unreliable narrators all the way down.
There's a "classic" American play with basically the same issue.
@@KyleRayner12great gatsby 😂
It’s crazy that people think summer is evil when he didn’t know a single thing about her besides the fact that she’s aloof and fun. And she loves the smiths.
I think both of them were in the wrong why mess around with someone like Tom knowing how much of a romantic he is. You know you’re hurting him.
@@mana-uv7cz 100%. It's stupid to pursue someone who's vocally disinterested in a relationship, but it is also a bit cruel to keep casually hooking up with someone when you know they're in love with you. People make it a gendered issue one way or another, but I think if you divorce the characters from their sexes, it becomes clear that it's just a case of two emotionally immature, willfully ignorant people using each other. Neither of them are bad people. Or great people. They're just naive and a bit selfish. Because they're in their early 20s.
@@taylorbowser571 yeah I never brought up the gendered thing but I do both think they are wrong for their actions.
@@mana-uv7cz yeah, I know. I just meant to highlight how everyone who sees either of them as evil (especially Tom) does so because of ideas about gender dynamics.
@@taylorbowser571 yeah or it could be that they are projecting their past experiences with a partner onto the character
This is one of my favorite movies. And I think it's because everyone took what the writer wrote and saw it for what it was. Webb and Gordon-Levitt and co. saw Tom as the villain of the story and ran with it, so that even when the film came out and it initially did have the broad read that I think the writer intended, time has shown that most people have come to realize that Tom is not the hero of that story.
One other thing I love about 500 Days is how creative it is in the sea of bland romantic comedies. The various creative shot choices, or jumps through time, and the use of color. I just wish other rom-coms had 10% of the creativity 500 Days has. And the courage to have the protagonist be the "villain"
A Villain would suggest someone is evil. The protagonist is someone that learns and progresses from adversity and overcoming character flaws, we can certainly empathize with that. If you would skip all the nonsense around the movie that were pointed out in this video essay, abound the writer's background, it would still stand on it's own like it has for so many watching. Even just the basic surface level of idolizing someone for who you hope and think that they are is so recognisable, as everyone in the early stages of love is guilty of that to some extent.
@@pinobluevogel6458 if you want to be pedantic, then you can call him an antagonist if you want. The way that Tom loves Summer in the move is a selfish, self absorbed thing. She's clear right away how she feels and what she wants, but he thinks he can change her mind. He places her either on a pedestal where she's a flawless creature to be idolized or he's talking about terrible she is. He never really knew her, and never really tried to know her.
And as far as growth is concerned, Summer goes from saying she doesn't believe in love to being married. Tom goes from writing greeting cards to attempting to pursue a career in architecture. At the end of the movie, there's no noticeable difference in how he interacts with Autumn, but of the two characters, Summer is the one that obviously progressed from adversity to overcome her character flaw, not Tom.
@@Punkandcannonballer We don't get to see exactly when or even if Tom has learned on a personal level how he deals with his warped or ineffective way of experiencing love. Keep in mind that having these kinds of feelings is extremely common, among both men and women, where their self obsessed personality, or lack of consideration or interest in the other party ruins their true chances in love.
And while you correctly state that Summer in this case is not really at fault, this is clearly not always the case in real life situations.
The general gist of this video I think lays too much of a burden on the writer (who the protagonist is based on) and that character and not on the fact that these kinds of relatively common ways of interaction between potential lovers are rarely depicted, or thought through, or even 'accepted' as normal things to occur.
Yes, Tom is immature. Yes, he needs to grow to overcome this. But painting him as a villain goes too far for my liking. He is a morally grey character like everyone else, while Summer is depicted as a 'perfect' being, as we see her through the lens of his (dishonest) passion for her, which is a view disconnected from reality that is so common for a person that experiencing these deep feelings of love. She is naturally not perfect at all, as people like that simply do not exist, but his view of her makes her look like she is.
My main point is (and I'm sorry I'm taking so many words to come to it) that the focus of this essay and a lot of these comments are more on how horrible this writer / Tom is, while he isn't that much different from most of the world population, especially in the western world, where humans are sadly often lost, lonely and misguided.
I would prefer to celebrate this movie, not just for being a great film technically in terms of storytelling, acting and originality but also for shining a light on these not often seen interactions and emotional arcs. These subjects are based on real life and certainly more common than the nonsense we see in the average romantic comedy.
@@pinobluevogel6458 @pinobluevogel6458 I think the issue is that it seems very, very clear that the movie the writer intended to make was not intentionally subversive. He wrote Tom as a traditional NiceGuy who "seals the deal." Who gets the girl. To him, he doesn't see anything toxic about that, about thinking about himself or how special he is when Summer is telling him about something she's never told anyone, and that's clear in the commentary, when both the director and actor point out Tom's toxic behavior but the writer defends it as being honestly romantic.
Like, think about who becomes emotional and when. Tom gets angry when he and Summer aren't a couple, despite Summer already saying that she didn't want that. When they break up he insults her appearance, he breaks stuff in his apartment. I'm not saying having emotion is bad, but he often will just be calously toxic, and I don't think that's supposed to be rewarded just because love is complicated. Because, again, he didn't really love Summer. He loved an idea of her. He loved how she made him feel. He loved how she looked. He didn't know her.
I think if they played the script straight, the movie would not be nearly as memorable or as special. Sure, it'd still be amazing on a technical level in comparison to other rom-coms, but it'd be just as bland. And worse, it'd have a protagonist seemingly learn absolutely nothing from beginning to end, except to use a failed relationship as a springboard to try a career. The director and actors have given a nuanced take of a toxic person's single-minded, selfish view of love, which is part of what makes the movie special.
@@Punkandcannonballer Is someone a toxic person when he or she gets angry and says things that they don't mean? Throwing stuff around?
I certainly don't think idolizing someone or putting them on a pedestal is toxic. As is loving her for the idea of what she is, instead of really loving who she is. That is more common in the beginning phases of love than not. Virtually all humans have incredibly positive fantasy versions of the people they fall in love with, that slowly gets more down to earth when you get to know them. For most, this can cause the relationship to fail, but for some this deepens into mutual respect and love.
I remember most of what he does is relatively mild and only when he's already at the breaking point and losing it because he is afraid of losing her, does he do really harmful things that can hurt her. Especially when compared to 'real' toxic relationships, where someone is downright abusive, manipulative or physically violent. Quite often in those really toxic relationships, their partner doesn't even leave, caught in some stockholm syndrome or self-destructive mindset that they deserve it.
I don't know, I might be oldschool and even this movie is relatively oldschool, but I'm looking at this movie through quite a different lens. Maybe it has faded too much and I remember it in a more positive way than what it actually depicted, as it has been quite a while since I last saw it.
I love that Joseph completely understands and argues that the character he plays is a "nice guy": someone who is "nice" because he has an agenda, an endgame. He's not an inherently good person. He's good because it's convenient and he can get something from Summer out of it.
Bros endgame is true love
The resentment or hate he has for Summer at times doesn't ever go away. Even if Summer fell in love with him in the end, he would always have that resentment for how hard he had to work to get her
Couldn't agree more with you!
This must be a joke, women always looking as victims
I dont think so
no, Summer is just some bimbo to leave behind which he couldn't do right away
Fun fact, if you scroll to the comments of the op-ed Scott wrote, you’ll find a comment from a user named Jenny B! from London, left a decade ago, saying: “I just thought he was a bit of a nerd and far too serious about it all. I was just looking for fun, sorry, Scott. You need to move on.”
Possibly a troll, but I thought it was funny that it was there lol.
That is funny thxsn
This is deeply amusing to me, troll or not
Absolutely a troll, but quite humorous for sure.
I think this story is a a great example of how real life people will always be more complicated than the characters and the movies they write, and the gap between art and reality.
Yeah but Sloan has rejected that and must know THE TRUTH... THE TRUTH is we shape our own destiny be actions we take at every moment.. If he had some 'revenge' motivations but then going through writing this story and making the film has come to learn about himself and mistakes of the relationship I call that a success and healthy. But for Sloan, this is a wrong interpretation. The only thing that matters in Sloan's eye is his TRUE intention...
I think I have a parenting win and this analysis backs it up. I told my daughter “nice is something you do, it’s not something you are”. She said it changed her whole perspective and trajectory of dating.
I love this perspective.
This is profound.
I kind of disagree with that take. A person may act nice by doing nice things. A person is nice when doing the nice thing comes naturally.
@@e1123581321345589144 I think the point is that a lot of people call themselves nice without backing it up with actions. They think nice just means refraining from being mean.
@@e1123581321345589144 It is probably the distinction between a "nice guy" or a guy whose nice.
When I was a boy - it could be 15/16, I don't really know actually - i was feeling very much with Tom. From the opening line 'til the very end. He was someone to be admired for me. The ""Nice Guy"". And I started a - soon then buried - script of an own relationship, that had just ended.
Then, rewatching it with 19, Tom felt ... off to me. Ingenuine. But I could't quite put my finger on it. It was more a: "I guess the film is not as good as I remembered", than a "Tom is clearly wrong" but I didn't really know what to make of him - or why I liked the movie so much, when I was younger.
And then I watched it two-ish years later - and it clicked. Suddenly I noticed, Summer was being clear from the start - Tom wasn't listening. Then I noticed the rose-colored glasses. Suddenly I felt for Summer - and was very in awe of the script and the execution.
It’s crazy that he was so upset about their dynamic when not only was she incredibly clear about her intentions, but it really seems like he didn’t know who she was. We don’t know anything about her goals or her family or even her likes, besides the smiths I guess.
ohhh i had the same with 'devil wears Prada'
Probably because as a kid at 15/16, you were dumb, like all kids. You just liked it because the movie made you feel understood. You just wanted someone or something to tell you you were the good guy in your own relationship. When in reality, as you pointed out, you were a “nice guy”. Nice guys are worms. It’s not a good thing to be the dreaded nice guy.
@@user-73a ive never seen it. but ok.
@@user-73a'females' lmao
Holy shit I KNEW IT. All through the movie I kept saying to my boyfriend that I didn’t fucking get it. Bc even at the end when he “learns” she’s not the villain i’m like “why did he ever think she was?” the movie is so clearly meant to point out the main character is an asshole but they so so weirdly refused to say it
Asshole is a bit strong, I would say misguided, naïve or selfcentered. A major point is also a lack of real honest self reflection, which is describing probably the vast majority people living in modern concrete cities. This isn't necessarily evil or by choice, it emerges from living a life following the advice of others and not living in accordance with human nature, spirituality or god if you will.
right?! It's one of those movies where it ends and you're left squinting at the screen as the credits roll going "waaaaiiit. So...?"
I watched it maybe 10 years ago, so not 100% sure - but yeah the movie definitely shoehorned in that the protagonist is a nice guy, that his views are the only right way to look at things...
All that did leave a bitter aftertaste in my mouth - and we never even really got to know summer.
He judges her, demands her devotion and attention - and if he doesn't get it, he completely spirals out of control.
It is a fine line to walk though - because you can definitely still get hurt in a casual relationship, especially if only one partner develops feelings.
In the end though I think it was unfair for him to go into it with his expectations - and be surprised at the end.
He should have been honest with her and himself - what he wants is not a casual relationship, so just don't start one 🤗😇
@@theresabu3000 I respectfully disagree. At first it does feel like Tom's way of thinking is the only right way, because the whole movie is from his POV, but there are repeated instances in which it's made clear he's in the wrong. The most obvious ones that come to my mind are the narrator saying that he's got a misguided idea of love and romance because of his misinterpretation of The Graduate, and his tween sister being the voice of reason and telling him "Just because a girl like the same weird things as you doesn't mean she's your soulmate"
I wonder if that is the director and actor realizing this but the writer not and the conflict between those perspectives playing out on screen. 🤔
15:34 "Summer asks Tom all about his dreams and goals, but we never hear about hers" like, if that doesn't say it all
I love that because the director saw the movie differently, and the director is a huge part of a move, we weren't completely dragged into the writer's view in the final product 😂
A sequel movie would be "500m of summer" where Tom becomes an architect and made an "ugly and imposing" building then names it Summer. While he thought it was ugly, it would be loved by others for its uniqueness and innovativeness!
@@AkaironoUnko Tom was projecting his fantasies onto his desired profession. He only wanted to be an architect because so many male romance movie characters are architects.
@@cbushin sure, but I still want Tom to just be an architect for revenge because he is delusional and see it as a redemption arc. As to show that he has moved on and achieved "the dream". He will continue to deny that his inspirations stems from revenge and has a hard time understanding/interpreting new buildings... or smth. I'm just suggesting a hypothetical storyline that was honestly just a joke from the beginning. But now I'm invested lol
That sounds like the episode of Spongebob where Squidward had a mental breakdown smashing art supplies together, quitting his art teaching job while leaving behind the mess that ended up an artistic masterpiece
That would be a great ending for this movie.
Also,
Ted Moseby the architect
I know this video took a lot out of you, but genuinely, thank you for making it! It perfectly encapsulates why this movie is so interesting to me and how I still find enjoyment rewatching it all these years later.
I love this movie, and something that has always bothered me is how people so quickly dismiss it as a "manic pixie dream girl" rom com. Because Summer isn't actually a manic pixie dream girl, Tom just imagines that she is. But she sometimes subverts his expectations, and when she exercises autonomy, he becomes petulant. Unlike a MPDG, she has a *minor* character arc: she didn't believe in love, or soulmates, or fate, and by the end of the movie she does, and not in a way that serves Tom or caters to his fantasies. You could argue that maybe it does serve him, because maybe he's learned from the mistakes he made in their situationship. But I love that the ending where he meets Autumn and learns her name is ambiguous.
I’m glad I found this channel for this reason. I definitely look at and analyze films in a similar way and it’s nice having things I’ve noticed or felt put into a streamlined video like this
The fact that the movie name-drops her in the opening with the *legally required disclaimer* and nobody in legal thought that was a horrible idea is devastating. As for why he changed his position on that one scene all those years later, it's possible he's *actually* grown after he got less defensive of his actions in the relationship and his stand-in's overall, as opposed to immediately post-temper tantrum of a multimillion dollar movie 💀
I'm pretty sure, like anyone after such a long time, he has grown in some ways. However, if we are to believe the video creator doing her analysis, she argues his real motivation and feeling haven't shifted much at all and are only buried beneath a layer of veneer shown to the outside world.
I actually dislike the fact that he is so openly criticized on his character, which is something he can probably not really help or truly change. But I guess that's what you get for making such a public piece that openly put out this story and directing it at this specific person where this (most likely) is based on.
I still think this is a great movie that is loved and watched by many, this story gives that a bit of a sour taste. It is an original take, something I wasn't exactly looking for or needed, and I really don't know if it was to be made at all. I'm still happy this movie got out there, even if it was actually made with the wrong motives behind it, it still made for a great movie that we can also learn from.
@@pinobluevogel6458personally, I quite like the idea of a piece of art carrying the artist even farther than the inciting idea. Or, you could look at it as some part of him knowing "deep down" enough wisdom to write the film, with the top level, day-to-day conscious awareness taking much longer to catch up.
Honestly, it just makes me suspect that the "standard legal disclaimer" is meaningless, and intends to "protect" the filmmakers from legal hazards which don't exist, or at least aren't present in most circumstances. What cause of action would Jenny Beckman, should she exist, hope to show in court? She didn't write a film for him to steal, and the film itself is hardly slanderous.
@@jeffskarski6644 There is something to be said about someone writing the script for a 'revenge movie' and succeeding with having that script realized into an original, good movie. I think some people are making far too big a deal about this guy's motives or behaviours. Yes, the remark at the beginning and the article are skechy af, but if Summer is supposed to be Jenny Beckman, she comes off as the absolute good person in the story and also wins in the end.
Now it would be great if she also won in real life and was happily married. (which wouldn't surprise me at all)
In the end I don't mind this whole sequence at all. All great things in life come with sacrifices. In this case the sacrifice was the writer coming off as a bit of a narcissist and there was an attempt to make his former girlrfiend look bad. (which did not succeed) This was also a movie that got both Zoey Dechanel and Joseph Gordon-Levitt more recognition as actors in this space, which to me isn't bad either. I like both of them a lot, JGL in particular for his work in some more off-beat movies.
@@pinobluevogel6458 Yes, I agree, Scott/Tom wasn't being malicious in his self centeredness, and got himself into a situation entirely of his own making but of WHICH the pieces are everywhere to build a self justifying narrative. And whether there was a subconscious Scott behind the doofus, slyly guiding both us and the doofus towards enlightenment, or whether the doofus wrote a revenge story that, once written, starkly demonstrated to him that he was being narcissistically self centered, well, doofus,and set him on the road to being less shitty... it's ultimately not all THAT important. It's fascinating, and worth the video, as long as we can understand that we're just looking at a piece of human behavior under a microscope. Most of us, beyond not being famous enough for anyone to bother, don't leave enough independent evidence for our motives to ever be subject to this sort of scrutiny. Furthermore, and I guess this could ALMOST be construed as a disagreement with the video, but to the extent that we are assuming there's one "true" Scott (even allowing for change over time), that just isn't how people work. We're a mishmash of beliefs and interests and tastes and influences, all in tension, which we usually cannot perceive. There's no one "true" Scott. You'll get different answers from him, depending on how you approach a question, because he's a human being. We're all messy.
Honestly, I find it hilarious that Scott the screenwriter wrote Tom as a self insert and expected the audience to be wholly sympathetic to him while the director and the other people in production were like "Yeah Tom was in the wrong in that scene".
Reminds me of "The Last 5 Years musical" where the creator wrote the story about his failed marriage. It posited that both the man and woman (Jamie & Cathy) were equally in the wrong for the failure of their marriage but let's say the audience did not take it that way 😅
I feel like the audience's take on TL5Y has so much to do with direction and casting choice, though. I've seen productions where they feel equally at fault, or where Catchy feels mostly to blame, or Jamie does, or where they both just come off as overly idealistic, naive artists who have no idea what they're doing and are doomed from the start.
@@taylorbowser571 Oh definitely, given it's theatre, the portrayal and hence reception of characters can differ based on the actors.
From what I've seen, most people think both Cathy and Jamie are at fault, but the lyrics for "A miracle could happen" did tip the scales a bit 😅
@@KindaErudite definitely! Unless Cathy is portrayed as extremely cold and manipulative, people do not forgive Jamie for that number. I've also notice it vary based on age and personal relationship history. I used to hate Jamie! And then I was in a super miserable relationship with a manipulative person and kinda changed my tune.
My favorite thing about that show (and it is perhaps my favorite show) is how many interpretations there are.
@@user-73aI might have to rewatch it but didn’t she say she didn’t want a relationship at first and he pushed for a relationship
@@CrackedPropane
And Tom made it very clear he wanted a relationship.
Summer said one thing, yet acted another. Often this is dismissed as Tom being an unreliable narator. But Summer shares her part of the responsibility.
For example after their big fight, where he states they're a couple, instead of letting Tom go she 'makes up' and kisses him. That's just tempering with poor Tom's emotions
p.s. Inviting Tom, with whom she had a history, to her engagementparty without telling him what the party was for or that she was engaged at all is just cruel.
I saw 500 days of summer in theaters, on a first date with a girl.
I distinctly remember really not liking Tom after the movie, and I think it left a pretty strong impression on me as to the importance of perception to relationships and what one should bring into a relationship? Me and the girl didn't go on more dates after that and remained friends.
I've also not been on a date with anyone after that, been openly aromantic for a fair bit of that time span as well. Probably wouldn't have figured out that side of me without it, so thanks 500 Days of Summer.
This is really hot
Damn this movie turned bro asexual on his first date
@@Hope-el1gc wasn't my first date, but was my first date with that girl
@@dfknsmlfggfdgfhh9319😭 huh??
@@Hope-el1gc OP literally typed aromantic, not asexual lol
Ted in HIMYM is a very meta parallel of this situation, especially the whole deal with Stella and Tony.
I often think about how similar these two characters are
There's this scene in the final episodes of HIMYM where Robin is divorced and says she can't stay in the friend group because it's too painful to be around the man he should have married and see how perfect his marriage is.
I often think about this movie and its perspective.
That line from Robin feels like Ted's interpretation of someone else.
Hmm. Possibly. Have you seen the scene where Robin propositions Ted while he’s with Tracy? It’s a deleted scene that I think makes the ending far more palatable. Ted and Robin did love each other but wanted different things. Robin also was upset when she realised she couldn’t ever have kids.
@@eomoran There are three main reasons why some people couldn't stand HIMYM's original ending. First, some people hate that the writers broke Barney and Robin up despite spending a whole season on their wedding. Second, some people just hate the Ted and Robin pairing. Third, some feel that the finale hints at that Ted was secretly in love with Robin all along, and Tracy was treated as a place holder. For people who believe in one or more of these arguments, I don't think including that Robin deleted scene would have helped.
I don't subscribe to any of these arguments, and actually prefer the original ending. However, I think the flaw is in the execution. They failed to stress that so much time have passed that both Ted and Robin are over 50 by the end of the finale. They have both achieved their career and life goals, and spend a lot of time together just as friends since Tracy passed away. Their relationship goals won't be the same as what they were in their 20s and 30s.
Also, the kids were too happy after hearing the story. If the writers had the foresight to film a version where the kids were moved to tears but still were there in support of Ted and encourages him after the retelling of story ended, with Ted also in tears, like how Josh Radnor did it during the table read, I think that would have saved the finale for a lot of people.
@@paiwanhan well said
yeah tom is a great caricature for the “nice guy” trope. he thinks he’s so soft and sensitive because he’s artsy and not your typical “macho man”. but in reality, he’s just as entitled and misogynistic as the macho men. how anyone could walk away from this film empathizing with tom is beyond me. he’s so transparent
I empathize with him a bit. I _do_ think it's a tad uncool to continue hooking up with someone when you know they have deeper feelings or expectations (even unrealistic ones) for how the relationship will turn out. If it's obvious a person is falling in love, don't sleep with them anymore. Set a boundary. Break it off. Otherwise you are allowing them to be self destructive, and that's cruel.
That said, it's more stupid to hang onto someone after they've told you they don't want you like that. Like, come on. Have some respect for what they've said they're looking for, and have some respect for yourself and pursue someone who is actually interested.
But I don't seem Tom as this misogynistic dickwad everyone else seems to. I just think he's willfully ignorant because he's so desperate for love. He sees what he wants to see. If he'd really looked at Summer more closely, he probably wouldn't have been all that interested. They're not actually compatible outside of their music taste. But he idealized her because of his own loneliness and desire for a romantic storybook ending. I've done that before, as have most young people. It's stupid and immature, but it's not hateful or prejudiced.
@@taylorbowser571 tom is definitely a misogynist. he literally calls summer the b word in the movie. he also does the typical thing misogynists do where he only thinks about what how a woman makes him feel or what she can do for him. he doesn’t love her, he loves the fantasy image of her that he made up in his head. he also gets incredibly whiny and angry at her constantly bc he’s a manchild who can’t take responsibility for his own actions. he’s mad because the fantasy version of summer he conjured up doesn’t exist, and he can’t stand that reality doesn’t match up with his delusions. he doesn’t know anything about summer beyond very surface level things, and he only cares about those things because 1. they service him in some way or 2. they’re things he’s also interested in. that’s the entire point of the movie. media literacy is dead
@@coolchameleon21 I mean, I hate to break it to you, but those really aren't gendered behaviors or examples of prejudice. It's simple selfishness and willful ignorance. Not every bad action is a reflection of some internal bias. Crappy, selfish women also ignore men's needs and see what they want to see. The movie could've easily been gender swapped, and the themes as intended would still be very much in tact.
I do agree that the point of the movie is Tom's blindness and self-destructive selfishness born of his desperation. But I don't think that that makes anybody a misogynist. Wild take implying that b-tch is a slur. It must be genuinely exhausting seeing bigotry in everything that way.
@@taylorbowser571 I hate to break it to you, but if the genders were swapped the movie would have been perceived and discussed way differently and everyone would be arguing what a b the selfish women is, again, as always.
@@professormeow3399 are people not, for the most part, arguing that tom is extremely selfish and unsympathetic? you're kinda undermining yourself, there. even I, who do empathize with him, have been harsher on tom than summer.
I honestly think that if the movie had been flipped, the opinion would mostly be that the hypothetical male "summer" character was a player and a manipulator, and that the hopeless romantic protagonist was naive but deserved better. audiences aren't exactly in favor of men who prefer casual hook-ups. and, really, we're primed to root for the protagonist regardless of who they are just because of narrative structure. though, with time, perceptions would've shifted in a similar way to what we see now.
in my opinion the catalyst for shifting perceptions about the movie was less about a gradual change in discourse surrounding gender than discourse surrounding communication, especially regarding sex. 10-15 years ago, saying "I prefer to keep things casual" but continue going out with someone was seen as mixed messages. Now, the predominant idea in progressive spaces is that as long as you set a boundary verbally, your actions cannot actually undermine it and any confusion from others is them "not listening". And casual sex is way more accepted.
for what it's worth, though I did say themes as intended, and not as interpreted. Obviously people are gonna bring their own gendered biases to anything they watch. On average, women root for Summer, and men root for Tom, because we champion who we can most easily relate to.
Him name dropping her AND writing an article naming her is messed up. if an ex writes a story about our relationship, I wouldn't be thrilled, but I would be pissed as hell if he dropped my name.
Happened to my brother once, the woman in question wrote an article about him (without using his name, luckily) claiming all these horrible things he and his friends did to her, from neglecting her when she was s*icidal to making antisemetic/racist comments behind her back (our family is also jewish…). Folks like that will spin any story to make themselves look like the victim :/
The scary thing I think Joseph g Levitt got the movie pretty well. I mean..differently to how scott got it. He had people approaching him saying 'i loved your character! What a (any mean word for a woman) summer was!
And Joseph was like...'im not..I'm not the good guy in this'. Scott said at the end of the video ,'a lot of other people were on summers side...and how can that be?' but... They weren't. Not at the time of release. This movie is praised for being ahead of its time but scott saying 'how could people be on her side?' ...that's scary to me. He must have known people might hate summer if he is annoyed people are on her side...and if he in any way sent that hate to her l...vague or otherwise...that's not just petty. We've seen what so called 'nice guys' can do. Maybe not as much in 2009 but still...people can find people online with less information. That's scary to me that there could be that much anger that she could be in danger
"I will eviscerate you in fiction. Every pimple, every character flaw. I was naked for a day; you will be naked for eternity".
- Geoff Chaucer, A KNIGHT'S TALE
That's the thing with artistic types. Get on their bad side, and you may well find yourself immortalized in ways you really don't want. See "You're So Vain" by Carly Simon, "You Oughta Know" by Alanis Morrissette, and every other song by Beyonce and Taylor Swift.
The majority of Beyonces songs are how she loves Jay. Even Lemonade was about forgiving him for cheating, choosing to keep the family together. She doesn't fit this.
The Swans
I think that's the only positive of them being so self-absorbed they don't know you. Just as Scott, they end up inmortalizing someone who's anything but you. And just like with this movie, people will find the author's whole truth before any detail that's true to you. It's all just their confused and petty revenge.
Edit: I wrote this before I reached the part where his ex reads the script and relates to Tom. Summer was so far removed from his ex that not even her could recognize herself in his writing. I hope she eventually laughed about it, it's the best reaction to have.
The same movie acknowledged that actually when the friend (who i hate) tells him to turn summer on fiction
any teens watching this with this idealised idea of what being an adult looks like in your 30s, im telling you right now, i recently turned 30 and there are very few people my age who are even remotely under what i would call "adult" most of them still behave like spoilt children but instead of growing into respectable adults, they just got better at being selfish Aholes. Do not ever think that anyone older than you is automaticlly more mature and better than you, always let their behaviour dictate the level of respect you should give.
this!! i had a traumatic childhood and grew up too fast, remember being a teen and idolizing adulthood because i thought that only then will i be happy, and i believed everyone would’ve matured by then and things were going to be great. spent my late teens and all my twenties working on myself and building myself up, only to now be 30 and see that most have no clue what they are doing, some have settled into victimhood mentality and live their life in a constant state of crisis, maturity has been the last thing i have seen. it makes me so sad, but i still have hope i will eventually find my way into the right room of people who perhaps have a similar journey of maturing into adulthood.
I agree! I recently had a chat with two people 15 years older than me who were a proper mess. And in some ways so am I
Yep
As a 19-year-old, I had to learn this the hard way. Twice.
One more time for the people in the back
*he loves her, but he hates her for not loving him*
@@user-73a lol yep, another deep, critical analysis of this movie whose message is "MAN BAD"
CORRECTION:
He loves the IDEA of her and the chase of winning her like some special object. He actually hates her for not loving him back the way he wants.
@@TheOMGRamending! ding! ding! correct! some people can’t differ from true love and idealized love. one loves the person for exactly who they are, the other falls in love with the idea of a person with zero consideration of who they truly are.
@@rjfinkthis isn’t a “man bad” movie and if you think that’s the case then you are the problem
@@touch-- “iF yOu diSAgrEe WiTh mE yoU aRe tHE prObLeM”
Cope.
My head cannon is that Scott did in fact change how he views the movie after others pointed out how his interpretation was had some issue, although maybe not in a way that allows him to at might fault with his earlier interpretation.
Mine too. He wrote a revenge movie and he was surrounded by talented people who could find the greater lessons from it which in turn helped him learn something about himself and grow as a person. Kind of a lovely story (unless Scotty still doesn't know)
Even in the directors cut example we are shown, it always struck me that he was very clearly listening to the opposing perspectives presented. And the fact that his words and later years Echo what he was told, furthers this idea that he was listening and has changed his perspective and grown.
'Is 500 Days of Summer Ironic?' - the greatest thread in the history of forums, locked by a moderator after 12,239 pages of heated debate
Link? nothing comes up when i google it
@@Jessedessie I suspect it's a satirical comment.
i think this is a parody of the “is the way people refer to god as Him with a capital H a neopronoun?” thread
The irony of a movie about someone who misunderstands romcom pop culture itself becomes misunderstood romcom pop culture, to the level that the film's stars have to make regular videos about how it's not a love story, is delicious. My younger self can relate to Tom. It's only when you understand the difference between being in love WITH someone and being in love AT someone that you can find true love. There's something wonderful about recognising that the person you love is falling in love with you AT THE SAME TIME that makes you realise that what you knew before wasn't real love.
I love that you said that because me and my ex used to argue often about unrequited love, he thought it was totally a thing while I've always thought that it isn't, because you can't truly love someone who doesn't love you back, love doesn't really work that way.
he really made a whole career out of him being dumped by some girl. also it gives me the creeps to think about all these people laughing at his comment about him knowing that she unfriended him on facebook THE DAY the movie came out like its a cute quirk to be as petty and obsessive as this. dont get me wrong, i'm also petty and obesessive, but if i made it a cute character trait of mine people wouldnt think its cute
Holy shit welll said.
@@user-73aooooof bad take. Did you watch the video you're commenting on? Summer isn't fucking around, she's just not interested.
Who hurt you
@@user-73aoh this video made you MAD 💀
@@user-73a cope 🤷🏻♀️
@@jossypoothe person commented 17 times on this video and has a vocabulary entirely made up of internet buzz words but they also don’t know what any of them mean 😭 they’re a waste of time just ignore them
I’ve been calling 500 days of summer a psychological thriller for women for sooo long. Love this analysis!!
Summer is not the villain for not feeling the same, but it takes growth to understand it. the grief he experienced went through all the 5 stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance. probably when he was writing the script he was still in the anger state.
"Death of the Author" is the conversation talking point that will nerd snipe me into oblivion.
God I hate when people beat to death the 'Death of the Author'. Disregarding authorial intent is *one* possible framework of literary analysis. Yea, you can do that. Just like you can consider that all creative works are necessarily informed by the time, place, and culture of the creator. Post-Structuralism isn't superior to New Historicism just because it has a quippy essay title you can read off the back of your hand.
@@philiple4182 I personally interpret the "Death of the Author" that when a work is put out, all the meaning you need and can take with you is within the work itself. Not that the work was made in a vacuum, but that anything left out or put in is there for you to read into, but nothing more.
Like how J.K Rowling likes to retcon anything on twitter, or how Disney is deflecting to other sources when they get caught in inconsistencies with Star Wars.
Of corse an author is shaped by their environment, but a work should be seen by itself. Lord of the Rings is not a retelling of how it was in the Trenches during the war, even tho it largely shaped the books, you can take that into account if you wish, but if you want to read into or analyze the work, you dont need to.
@@Fixti0n Which is fine. You can interpret art through any framework you want. You can even claim New Criticism or Post Structuralism are the superior lenses! Just don't be surprised when you get pushback from New Historicists or Biographical Critics, for, you know, not subscribing to your pet literary theory. Because I'm certainly not going to pretend like people aren't using Death of the Author to blithely excuse still-living-piece-of-shit-creators-who-stand-to-materially-benefit-from-consumption-of-their-art.
@@philiple4182 Hey, i may subscribe to the death of the author theory, but dont you dare lump me in with the Post Structuralists! That is taking it a step too far.
@@philiple4182you talking bout Harry Potter? I hear ye and if I had the heart I would try and reread the series with who JK has revealed herself to be, regardless of how deathly hollow her authorial voice has become.
But I agree, I studied literature and people gave post-structuarlism and death of the Author WAAAAAY too much leeway.
Anger could linger forever, but calling someone out in front of millions of ppl is not ok
completely agree. I'm less concerned with the prospect of Scott still being salty after all these years and moreso the fact that he practically doxxed a woman in front of thousands/millions of people, multiple times
@enurky297 kinda weird to track my comments. anyways, I made one during the start of the video and this one afterwards so there's that
Thank you.
My hate for complete recaps that replace watching the movie burns with the heat of a thousand suns.
Retrospective! (Just saying the plot beat by beat.) It infuriates me
This is why I hate "endings explained videos. Also, usually, the story's ending does not need an explanation.
I adore them! But I do think it's unfair to advertise them as analysis when they arent
They are garbage and they are making the world more stupid.
@@beatm6948 they are making the world worse
The reason why people say to write what you know is that when you draw on lived experience, you are bringing in all the little factors that shaped that experience, even the ones you're not aware of. As cringy as it is to see the "nice guy" telling his side of the story, drawing so heavily on his own life is what creates the little details that so effectively show Tom's self-centered perspective.
Growing up is realizing both are the problems and it all started at the bar they are telling each other they are not compatible but are going into a relationship that was destined to fail.
Tom was wrong for idealizing Summer and not listening to her. I don't think Summer was necessarily wrong. She was upfront about not wanting commitment but Tom didn't accept the truth. Summer could write in a massive neon sign that she doesn't want anything serious and Tom would still hope he could change that by being "not like the other guys" or "showing true love". Some might see Summer as an hypocrite because she met true love after breaking up the situationship with Tom and married another dude, but people change and go through different stages in life. Also, they were incompatible for anything more than friends with or without benefits despite a strong chemistry that could work for a friendship.
@@saparapatepetenah, she was wrong for leading him and not having any boundaries, why she was still with him after he was talking about wanting to be together and couldn’t see at in other way
@@saparapatepete Yeah. Summer allowed Tom's delusion to continue. Although Tom did act childish through most of it. Summer is no saint.
@@GoSkaTeproductions it's always interesting to me when people say this because why is she in charge of handling a GROWN man's feelings? She made it clear from the beginning. He should've left
@kalakings3358 Because both parties are at fault. Summer allowed the delusion to continue. Knowing who Tom was and how he viewed love. I acknowledge Tom is childish, but you can't put it all on his shoulders.
This is the reason I'm subscribed to your channel. I watched 500DoS when it dropped, and it reflected a failed relationship that I just had been going through. I love the part where you were like: «Why didn't the writer put in a "Sorry Jenny, I was wrong. No one is at fault here" at the end?» Nailed it. Absolutely nailed it!
The writer either believed he was wrong, when judging his own motives and morals along to the opinions of others that are more in line with generally accepted morals and human feelings, or he still doesn't believe that but only publicly says he does. If this stems from autistic traits in his personality or narcisstic ones, we can only speculate.
This completely changes my view of the conveniently chosen lines "I'm the hero of the story, don't need to be saved" in the Expectation v. Reality scene of the movie.
"500 days of Limerance"
That’s the damn truth
this video helped me a lot. I was going thru a situationship very similar to the one in the movie. I was aware how it would end but i couldn't stop thinking about him and falling in love. This video made me realize that if he told me something important about his life, i would act like tom and instead of treating him like a human i would overthink what does that mean to our situationship. I looked him from afar and i realized that he might be someone that i WANT, but he isn't someone that i NEED. And i ended the situationship in a healty way. Now i feel peace and calm, mixed with a little bit of saddness. Thank you
Maybe the film does such a good job of presenting the pov of a childish, slighted manchild cause cause he still was one. It took the reception of the film and the commentary of gordon-levitt for him to realize: ”shit. Im the asshole”.
Leave it to Joseph Gordon-Levitt to know his character better than the person the character is based on.
@@pinobluevogel6458 Yeah cuz that's the easy part. JGL is an outside perspective. If you write your own stand-in, you automatically sympathize with him to a certain extent, trying to explain your actions. When someone LEARNS to be a character, they have much deeper insight. That's why (good) therapy works: It makes you take a look at yourself from the outside.
@@mx5701 Sure. I'm just impressed by his dedication and craft.
21:20 yes yes yes. I’ve always struggled to put this into worlds for all people. Often people aren’t naturally acting but acting how they think they should act
Imagine outing yourself as the stalker you are via creating a movie detailing your obsessive tendencies and thEN SHOWCASING how much you haven't changed and are STILL stalking this woman THROUGH! INTERVIEWS! FOR THE MOVIE! jeZUS PETES
Commenting again after watching all the way through, and wanted to say first of all that this was fascinating!
The final scene of the film is so unintentionally funny to me and I think it reinforces your argument. The woman at the end of the film introduces herself as Autumn. On the one hand, I feel like this was intended to illustrate how Tom has moved on and matured from Summer, but on the other hand it suggests that Tom is about to repeat the same relationship with a new girl. His relationship with Summer was just part of a larger pattern for him, one that he has no intention of breaking any time soon. Seasons change, but Tom never will.
Lol. I always interpreted the ending as a repeating cycle. Seasons are just a brief part of the time, that you just repeat every year. I just thought Tom never learnt anything, and was gonna have another failing relationship. Another 500 days but of autumn 😂
“seasons change, but Tom never will” oof! loved that line, absolutely true!
wow this was great!! I have long heard the pop culture interpretation of 500 days of summer as a one-sided, unreliable narrator relationship, but i’ve never heard the context behind it and the writers decision to include his real ex in his bitter publishing pieces and marketing. the attitude he holds around this woman makes this entire movie cast in a completely different light.
thank you!! great job!!
If the film is taken as summer being the villain, but critiqued as summer not being the villain, but even deeper-critiqued as the villain - then the whole thing reverts to a face value meaning, that summer is meant to be the villain, the manic pixie dream girl survives, and media literacy includes your gut instinct.
This reminds me of Lolita, and the BRILLIANT video by Man Carrying Thing where he discusses by analysing the authors life and other works, Lolita transforms from a overt normalisation, to a clever critique of the issue, then all the way back to fetishisation.
This actually makes so much more sense. I was so confused why they would make this movie and then get upset that people (often men) got the wrong idea about it and hated not only Summer the character, but Zoey Deschanel the actress who played her.
If you make a movie that is so unclear as to its message that 50% of the viewers leave thinking the exact opposite of the intention, you have failed. I am glad that there has been so much discussion after the fact about this movie to right the wrongs, but it does make way more sense that this was maybe the intention all along. That it was a revenge story. That the movie itself was revenge. That he wanted people to blame Summer.
I hope that his 'corrections' after the fact were because he saw what was happening to Zoey and how no one else that worked on the film agreed with his interpretations. How toxic the people who agreed with him were. And maybe, just maybe, he finally realized that he actually was in the wrong.
I disagree with the idea that a movie fails if it is not interpreted the way "its supposed to". I dont like that idea because it is an insult to the audience intelligence, and "being more clear" about the message would straight up make it a worse movie.
This is the discussion of media literacy that has picked up recently. Writers *have* to trust that most audiences wont take everything at face value. And I say "most" because of course there will be groups of people that are less intelligent, younger, or seek to engage with media in bad faith.
And also, I believe that the discussion sorounding this movie, even if it is between a couple exiting the theater, is what makes the movie (and its message) valuable. If someone sees themselves in Tom and someone else was bothered by him, that can lead to examining his own life on a different perspective.
This ^^
This guy should have his photo next to the urban dictionary definition of "Nice Guy"
This movie is great not because it’s mature, but because it’s written from the perspective of an emotionally immature 25 year old with minimal understanding of romantic relationships. In tom’s vision, he is a protagonist that can do no wrong, trying to complete the hero’s journey. In our perspective, tom portrays summer’s faults without emphasizing his own. He makes her seem aloof, able to drop everything and play pretend.
But from my own headcanon, summer’s only fault is not having a perspective. Maybe she tries to communicate her problems with Tom. Maybe she cried behind closed doors trying to make things work. Often times, the end of relationships are plagued with miscommunication and betrayal because one side tries their best to support the other and give the same amount, but ends up failing. And they don’t want to fail, they want to make things work and continue that honeymoon phase the other person seems to be in, but it’s not easy, especially with someone like tom, who’s overly romantic. It also makes it more difficult to communicate your emotions. In that situation, no one is at fault. Both people can’t communicate, both people are at fault, both people were unable to change for each other.
Really wish someone would make that perspective, similar to the pair of movies Lost in Translation and Her. If so, the comparison would help put 500 days of summer into better context.
Hate that this is a “revenge movie” but still think there’s some value, although my views have changed over time
This is a perspective I can relate to. It pierces through the painful issues the writer might have had to put this into the world and focuses on the important aspects that this movie is about. For a 'revenge piece', there are a surprising number of things that are relatable and real about this movie and this is exactly why it resonated with so many people. The hidden things that were pointed out as a main issue with the movie never really mattered, as nobody knew them. We could see the main protagonist's flaws, but that was about it.
This 'narrative' about the writer has taken too much of a main focus and more or less distracts from all the great things this movie does show. Especially that this is a massive deviation from other movies, in that it shows actual young 18-28 yr old guys things they can learn from. The average romantic comedy is devoid of any realism and is precisely the thing that 'creates' misguided people like the protagonists of the main storyline, if they believe what is depicted in them is anywhere close to reality.
I think this is a really valid position to have. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a character that has parts of your personality in your writing, but full-on self-insert characters are tricky because even if you have the best intentions, you can't write that character objectively, even if the character is well written. So you can potentially write a good self-insert, but that doesn't mean you fully understand how that self-insert is portrayed, because the hardest thing for a person to see, is himself. Everyone has a distorted view of themselves for better or worse. It's kind of how our recorded voice sounds weird to our own ears, even though that's what we sound like to everyone else.
I feel like the motivation to write the film can come from a place of ambivalence: the act of writing a film such as this can simultaneously be an act of revenge, coming from his hurt ego, and an act of growth and change; the part of the psyche that grows and accepts the breakup, understands it's for the better can have just as much of a voice as the part that is hurt and will remain hurt for a long time. I really believe that these feelings co-exist within a person when someone is heartbroken.
I went into this video hating Tom, and came out of it realizing that I am Tom (and i got issues to work on), hating the writer behind this movie that I had never thought about before, and finding a new channel to subscribe to. awesome analysis!!!
This is legitimately one of the best movie videos essays I have ever seen. It's absolutely fantastic and completely recontectualized a very formative story for me.
I think that everyone has the capacity to be an unreliable narrator of their own lives. It's probably the most common sin. I always think of the amazing lyrics by the band - The Silent Years - "Everyone wants a portrait of themselves, preferably cast in a favorable light."
I think this man most likely wanted to make a story about how 'nice guys' get screwed by uncaring women and then will get a happy ending, as a way to try and convince himself. It's telling he was in a relationship, but not in a strong committed relationship during this fiasco.
I think he did write a propaganda piece based on misogyny and the fallacy of the nice guy in order to try and make himself the hero. But a movie, being a collaborative art did a remarkable job of hiding it. But that illusion is shattered, but I think the movie is valuable if you can ignore the dissonance from that opening line and the fact you're no longer ignorant to the writers intent.
Sometimes you paint a flower and it becomes a symbol of feminism because people see vagina. Sometimes a man makes a petty hate film and it goes down as a story about feminism for men. But the cracks will never be invisible again and I thank you for helping me learn something new about the world.
That opening line is truly unhinged
I think it's interesting to think about how movies get "steered" by so many people who might have different intentions. The screenwriter had his own intentions at the time of writing. The director and leading actors had different ones, apparently. Except for the very last scene with Autumn, the perspective of the director and actors dominated my viewing experience. So I would say the script was the set-up for a revenge movie, but the final product feels like a critique of Nice Guys looking for their MPDG.
I’ve watched hundreds of video essays and I just want you to know I genuinely think this is one of the best pieces I’ve ever seen.
This was fan-fucking-tastic! He definitely gives nice guy vibes in his interviews. I think you nailed it about the subtext of his interviews and how his answers changed. I especially like the bit you found where JGL and the other writer were saying something different and then slowly dude's answered changed to match theirs, excellent research!
I am beyond stupid! I remember watching this movie years ago and being so angry that I didn't understand the movie.
"HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO LEARN ABOUT BOTH CHARACTERS?!?! EVERYTIME SHE TALKS, THEY FOCUS BACK ON HIM!!!"
yeah....stupid! That's the point!😂😂😂 It took you, saying it out loud for me to finally get it!
I feel like it is universally accepted everyone in the movie are human. In the beginning she made it clear she wasn't looking for a relationship. He didn't listen and lied to himself hoping he could change her. I wouldn't say there is a classic villian in this story. People are human.
Yeah alot of the comments are making it a gendered issue. When it isnt, its a human issue. Tom is a character that immediately fell in love with a girl and he projected what he thinks the person is. That is an innately human experiemce, everyone has been in love with someone without knowing them and imagine how they live their life to the pount you arent in live with the person but the idea of the person
@@danielshore1457
It is a human issue, yeah. Though I would say there is a strong leaning towards men being & behaving similar to Tom's character, without any proof; just from my lived experience & observation. But regarding your third sentence? I'd highly question if everyone imagines what a person is like, when "in love", without knowing them.
Especially when you then actually end up in a relationship with this person & continue to imagine scenarios, how or what this person feels & is, or should be, like.
I feel like almost everyone has gone through this kind of “limerence” where you like someone who doesn’t like you back and you create fantasies about them in your head. As a 15 year old I had my first crush and I was Tom, she was venting to me and my thoughts were “wow she’s letting me in I must be important.” Which only fed the into the delusion. It was totally selfish and now being 21 I’m filled with regret rightfully so, still hurt by some things that happened but I can reflect on it and realize where I was in the wrong. The fact that the director wrote this and basically waved it in her face and the whole “bitch” line is wild and shows how emotionally immature this dude is, thank god the actor portrayed the character differently. It’s like this film was an accidental masterpiece as you said
I've had lots of crushes but never had even the faintest reciprocity. Even now, in my mid 30s with a good partner I've built a great relationship with, I wonder what it would have been like if I was able to make good on any of my crushes. It probably would have turned out like this movie - I'd still be delusional about the person right in front of me. I take comfort in that
i loved loved loved this video, thank u so much for posting that “in case you missed it” post. i’ve loved this movie for so long and loved your analyses recently, this feels like a video made specifically for me
This has been my favorite movie for years. The first time i saw it (I was 14) there had never been a piece of media or a character that resonated with me so much. As I got older, and often found myself more on the Summer side of relationships, my favorite movie changed right under my nose and I began to understand it was really intended. And I have to say, this video has cracked it wide open for me! You’ve managed to put into words the issues with both my perspective as a teenager, and the boys who “loved” me but couldn’t tell me a thing about myself - via this movie. This video is a gem, thank you.
What an absolute trip this was. Thank you, Sloan, for providing so much nuance and insight into the story and its background. What seems like such a simple story at first glance is actually one that is multi-layered, complex, confusing, and polarizing when all of these layers are peeled back. I can understand the research for this movie must have been mind-boggling at times, so thank you! You did an excellent job!
So after all it wasnt a coincidence or bad PR that the movie was misunderstood in the first run. So glad the director and Joseph Gordon levitt had a different vision. Its very funny to me that after theyve settled on a final message the author then was forced to go from interview to interview critiquing tom and therefore himself. Hope Jenny got a good laugh out of it.
I've never really viewed this movie as having a hero or villain, to me this film is just a subjective look at a very real perspective some people have when viewing their relationships. I consider myself a hopeless romantic so its pretty easy to place myself inside the shoes of someone like Tom or Ted Mosey because I've tended towards a lot of the same trains of thought and over-romanticization of my life as they do in their artificial ones. Sure, the film may exaggerate some of the emotional aspects for drama but at its core there is a story of love and hope and loss and pain that many men and women can resonate with.
exactly, I know so many girls who fall in love with the potential that they imagine in their heads. This is very common. Let's humanize Tom
Yes! I don't understand the hate Tom's character gets. He fell in love with love and the feeling he thought it could give him. Summer chose not to act on her words and kept coming back to him. They are both to blame and very very not compatible.
Whether Tom/Scott is the hero, the villain, or just a character, one thing is for certain. He is very much human.
Thats why I love this movie so much. Not only does it have a great soundtrack, great acting, dazzling use of color and solid humor, but it also feels more real than any other rom com I've seen. I've been Tom before. I've also been Summer. I hope I have learned from both, and that I don't carry around my own personal disclaimer about Jenny Beckman.
my favourite comment! nailed it
Calling the person whose name only Tom knows "female coworker" is the funniest thing I've seen today.
It reminds me of "today's nice guys" who, sadly, often just refer to women, girls, etc., as 'females'.
you just made me realize how i love this movie, I watched as a teenager and at that time the discourse was that summer was the villain, since then tom became the villain and now it is just way more complex than that, is about romantism and rose colored lenses and narratives, misoginy, male gaze, MPDG... its a layered movie with so much to think and feel and on a superficial level is a really fun movie to watch... it is a masterpiece really
I'm surprised at the confusion, of course Tom has grown and of course he still holds feelings of resentment. Growing and accepting doesn't mean you are now perfect.
If you've ever had your heart broken, it's easy to sympathize with Tom. At first, you alternate between hating and missing the person. Over time, you accept that the relationship wasn't right. After many months or years, you can look back and see places where you were in the wrong. That takes time. It's so insightful that "Jenny" related more to Tom after reading the script. Almost all of us experience this sort of rejection and the pain of it sticks out in our minds much more than when we were the ones doing the rejecting.
This was incredible to watch and the first video of yours I came across randomly in my feed. I first watched this movie when it came out and I definitely gravitated to Tom as the victim because of a situation I had gone through. And with the benefit of hindsight I shared a lot of Tom’s negative qualities. I think I still share some. And that isn’t a comforting thought. Seeing them dissected like this is almost like a therapy.
Great insights. I never viewed the movie from these perspectives and it was very enjoyable. Subscribed.
Oh my god, I just happen upon a new Sloan Stowe video seven minutes after it's posted :O I've really been enjoying your video essays by the way!
This made me consider that if the author is relevant to media analysis, then we should include both conscious intention and unconscious bias.
Thanks for making me think!
Brilliant video. Loved the second half. You're very talented! Also a great movie to watch as your barometer for emotional maturity. I'll admit when I was in my teens I completely related to Tom, and understood the film as straight on. Now I see it for what it is, and that makes it so much more interesting.
I always love your analyses. When I first saw this movie, I was all "This should have been called '90 Days of Summer'. Why she had anything to do with him past that makes no sense." I always saw him as the villain, and at the end he hadn't really learned anything or grown. I felt bad for Autumn. And, yeah. Scott is totally gaslighting on what the intent of the original script/movie was.
I love the scene when they show him going to the party and his expectation vs reality. That was such an eye opener we don’t always realize how differently someone else can view us or the world around them. I always wanted a movie from Summers perspective but I guess I made it myself cause I had a few relationships like this.
This is an exceptional video essay. No kidding, I've seen this movie more than 50 times. Only now do I feel like I understand it.
I love this analysis! Never thought of the movie that way before. I honestly think this movie is something every teen should see at least once, and every adult should see multiple times. Such a rich movie about selfish love even if the writers didn't intend it
shared this movie with my crappy "friend" group in high school. They all hated Summer and praised Tom. I stopped sharing movies and trusting their judgment after that.
Good call
This movie is a good filter with men. I also distrust guys who end up hating Summer
@@aliciasegunda3555 have some sympathy, i first watched this movie as a 15 year old boy going through a rough break-up and its all through the "dudes" perspective, its like literally baiting your vulnerabilities and then semi validates them, i think most people without an open perspective, would see it in a similar way
@@thedarpside9480 you can see all the flaws in Summer by all the mixed signals she sent, and also Tom's flaws with being so permissive in regards, but hating her and seeing her like completely the horrible bad guy? I think that's not a good sign
Dude i love videos like this. Not only an analysis, but an adventure through its inception ? This immence sloothage, and detevtive work. Im stoked to see whats next
I always really loved the scene where Tom tells Summer, "I guess I'm not just anyone." I honestly consider it to be my favorite scene in the whole movie. It does such a good job showing how much Tom never really cares about Summer as a person. Mostly, it comes from the way the narrator speaks over what Summer says so we can't really hear her. I thought the movie did such a good job using the narrator here to place us in Tom's perspective. If we can't hear what Summer says, neither can Tom. Which makes the part where Summer says, "I've never told anyone that before," so impactful. She obviously told him something that she considers to be very important to her, and he doesn’t even acknowledge it. I always roll my eyes to the back of my head when Tom responds to her, making it about himself. I thought it was a great scene that support your point about the narrator being like an extension of Tom in a way.
Hearing the writer talk about his interpretation of this scene is so interesting because the scene feels so intentional to me. I mean, of course, he isn’t the only one working on the movie. You have the actors, the director, the editor, the cinematographer, and so many others. They also played their roles in giving this scene its meaning, but I’m kinda shocked to see how he refutes other people’s interpretation of the scene. Like we really NEED to understand where Tom was coming from or something. But I thought it was so clear where he was coming from. And I have to say, when I recently showed my friend this movie for the first time, he had a similar interpretation, and I was surprised to hear it.
After watching this scene, my friend let out an “ooooohhhh, I think I know where this movie is going.” He thought from this point on, it would be a movie about how Tom’s character teaches Summer how to love. Basically breaking her out of her “I don’t believe in love” point of view and allowing her to open up to love. It was interesting because before this point, he sorta saw through Tom, and by the end, he also felt like Tom was pretty delusional. He even cringed at when Tom said what he said in this scene. But, he still thinks Tom will get the girl in the end. I thought maybe his interpretation came from the fact that this movie presents as a typical romcom, so he expected a get-together ending despite the contradictory claims at the beginning of the movie.
By the way, great video! Had be hooked from the beginning!! 🖤💜
I do like how this movie sort if unintentionally subverts typical romcoms because you coukd view it as Tom as the "other giy" character in the romcom that the female lead may have been dating at the start or is meant to date but diesnt really love him.
As it is revealed towards the end of the film Summer is engaged and in love, which you could view that as her finding the lead man in a typical romcom.
This is perhaps one of the most indulgent analysis I have come across. This had been kind of my dream project. Congrats.
I just want to get my views on it from when I first saw it to now.
16 year old me: "Oh...The movie is about a guy who was not her soulmate. You can see that from Summer's wedding how happy she looks, as well as we are never being told the full picture through her side of things and only the guy. But also with him getting with Autumn at the end feels like he is going to a cycle, which I feel means, since he is seeing these relationship as seasons despite the 500 days part. it shows how he views the relationships, which in turn I believe is him in this state of not really growing no matter the days. He is is going to repeat a cycle no matter what, and never grow or learn why these relationship's failed. As well as be alone at the end of his life because of it."
Me a 33 year old: "WOW! This guy is hella toxic, and I still feel he is going to die alone."
This movie completely taught me the importance of perception vs reality.
This video is so validating. I felt like such an asshole watching this movie bc I couldn’t get over how I didn’t vibe with the message the movie was trying to tell me at all, even after telling myself it was supposed to be self aware
The message is up for interpretation. I interpreted it as "Don't get your expectations of romance from watching movies, not even this one." Tom did and he paid. I am not sure everyone got the same thing even if they agree with me that Tom was the villain. I think Tom never learned and was being set up to fail again with Autumn, but that was left open-ended.
Its possible that Scott grew as a person through making this book and movie and going on tours talking about it. That it drew out deeper lessons from his own life he could learn from. Which is kind of lovely in a way
This was so well made and had very keen observations (made my lil ADHD heart so nourished). Any time I’ve rewatched this movie, Tom looks worse and worse. Very possessive, self involved and delusional. His biggest sin is his lack of listening. Summer was upfront about her views on love and completely incompatible with Tom. He didn’t offer her anything as a romantic partner except a whole lot of unrealistic expectations!
genuinely one of th best vids ive watched on this site tysm
This was a really great video. I learned so much about this movie and its production that I didn’t know. I feel like on some ways I can appreciate the story more and in other ways it infuriates me somehow even more than the initial watch did.
My girlfriend and I watched 500 days of summer last year and it was both of our first times watching it. We ended the movie so upset because Tom was such a bad person… he called her a bitch before they met, he said he doesn’t like how other women dress provocative and said he liked how she (summer) dressed and she just responded “different people like different things” or something like that, and yet apparently we were supposed to leave the movie thinking there was no villian? I understand that people and relationship and stories are nuanced but it was especially frustrating since things were from Tom’s perspective. My girlfriend and I are lesbians and we saw it as another case of a “nice guy”
This movie clearly isn't meant for you. I mean, it can still give you something to think about, but if it doesn't leave you with some sense of wholefulness and hope, I think you are not the audience for this movie at all.
@@pinobluevogel6458 I suppose not, I’m not a spiteful ex. but I am an average person that watches movies and you don’t always have to be the intended audience to enjoy a movie. I just personally didn’t find it enjoyable even though it was structured in an interesting way so I was just sharing my opinion since this video addresses some of the reasons I specifically didn’t enjoy it.
@@pinobluevogel6458 Sorry, straight guy here: How could the movie leave you with hope, when you interpret it as Tom being the "problem"?
It ends with him meeting autumn. If that isn't "I am the hero of a rom-com and this must be fate, this must be my "one"", I don't know what is.
Sounds like it. This sounds like the very mindset of a "nice guy." I can't stand "nice guys."
I don't mind guys who are genuinely kind, but we both know "nice guys" aren't that.
@@LizzyThewolf Your opinion is not 'wrong' in any way. It is subjective wether you like a film or not, or a character in it or even parts of it. I was just baffled by how many people disliked the movie all of a sudden, despite it being seen as a really great movie when it came out and a real classic ever since.
I feel like a lot of women can relate to a guy projecting his own idea of us on to us. Then one day he says or does something and it makes you realize he doesn't actually know ME or like ME. He likes what ever idea he has created of me. It such a sinking feeling thinking someone sees you and realizing you were just a physical vessel for the world they created inside their head.
I remember when this movie came out and everyone HATED Summer and loved Tom. My friend and I came out of the theater saying that we didn’t actually know Summer. Just Tom’s version.
Your opening of "I'm not going to do a plot summary" was all the evidence I needed to know this was gonna be an actual analysis!
For me, Summer isn't evil but she's definitely not in the right either. Neither one of them are villains in my eyes, they're two very broken people who should not be in a relationship, situationship or any kind of "arrangement" whatsoever. What REALLY gets to me is when people go, "well, she SAID she didn't want to be in a relationship" as if that gets her off, scott-free, from anything she says or does afterwords. Sorry, but no. You don't get to say "I'm not looking for a relationship," then treat your FWB exactly, indistinguishably like he's your boyfriend/partner/significant other, complete with emotional ties, then play the "but I said at the very beginning the thing that now absolves me of anything I did afterwards" card. You don't get to have it both ways - you don't get to pretend your FWB is your boyfriend, and then discard him without a second thought like he's a toy or a living sex doll without any emotions or feelings of his own.
What Tom SHOULD have done was the night that she came back to him after their fight, when he made it clear that he wanted to be a couple, was make it clear to her that if they weren't together then he would walk. He should have recognized a toxic situationship when he saw it and had the self-respect to walk away from her, to end it himself.
What a MASTERPIECE. Amazing research, opinions, facts and views. Love the video
In a similar vein, I always felt like The Room is Tommy's revenge film and I really want to hear the other side of that story
Then read the disaster artist,or better yet, listen to the audiobook
@@AmiableSheepthey mean Lisa's side of the story
@@mbrammy7 I assumed they meant the revenge against Greg Sestero who he was jealous of at the time
Coincidentally... guess who wrote the screenplay for The Disaster Artist?
I believe the quote was kept in because thats what fueled the artistry of the film as an artist myself when I write a song I’m in the moment of that “feeling” regardless of knowing if I’m in the wrong or not but by the time I record or perform it I’m more or less over it and can see it from different perspectives but still have to tap into that original mindset to make it feel authentic again from the conception of those thoughts
TLDR:
Artistic projects are a time capsule that an artist can tap in and out of regardless of growth because those initial thoughts bad or good helped make a beautiful piece
I haven't watched all of this but I can't help but see the parallels with Nabokov's Lolita. The narrator and the positioning of "truth" within the story with a liar and manipulator.