Should Old Games Be Fixed? The Faxanadu Pendant Bug - Behind the Code
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2021
- Examination of known bugs in older games and some pondering of whether or not they should be officially fixed.
If you would like to support this channel, here is a link to the Displaced Gamers Patreon page - / displacedgamers
Twitter: / displacedgamers
Facebook: / displacedgamers
Instagram: / displacedgamers
Music by:
/ hariboosx
/ @wolfandraven
#NES #Faxanadu #Bugs 
Игры
![10 Weird NES Facts! [Nintendo Entertainment System] | Nintendrew](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DKOtyWggaNI/mqdefault.jpg)
Actually, it seems like the townspeople knew the pendant was cursed: “It’s better that you have it”. Riiiiight.
Yeah, I think that's why it wasn't fixed in Rev 1- it wasn't a bug. It was a misleading tip in the manual, the item is cursed. Lots of NES RPG style games had misleading tips and villagers who lied to you. it was part of the fun, figuring out which thing is cursed or which tip is right
Maybe, probably first came bug then came the "curse feature" as an in-game explanation for it.
But in the code it's obviously that the original strength is boosted when without the pendant, why do that as it makes no sense. The most common way would be to decrease strength only when you wear it, if it was intended as "cursed". As a dev this obviously looks that who wrote it inverted the condition, which is a common bug and happens many times in development.
I have no idea how games were programmed back in Ye Olde Tymes, but it seems to me that changing one byte to fix a bug is far easier than coming up with an in-game excuse for why it doesn't work as intended.
@@DFloyd84 It's not easier if it goes unnoticed until all the devs moved on to other projects. Said that, the manual doesn't claim it to have a negative effect.
It is definitely a bug, and you can tell from the way the code is written. The code implements an attack boost, which is active when the player doesn't have the pendant. Evidently the intention was to activate it when the player has the pendant, but the check for the pendant was written incorrectly. If the intent was to make the pendant reduce attack, they would have implemented attack reduction in the code rather than an attack boost.
Include a Patch Toggle. That's the best of both worlds.
Listen to wise sage Kenny!
Exactly.
Exactly as I was thinking. It doesn't alway have to be one or the other when both is an option.
Toggles are a cheap solution but if so, the fix should be on by default
Software developer here. Patch toggle (assuming you mean an option in game, not distributing literal prior versions a la Minecraft Java) is definitely best for the fans, but then for every new build of the game, you have to make test on all different combinations of patch toggles. Developer time is expensive and a lot of publishers wouldn’t care enough to pay for that kind of development or testing. Indie devs have more leeway, but again, regression testing *sucks*. Just a thought.
"The pendant has been a treasure of the town but it is best for the town if you keep it." Sounds like he's just eager to pawn a cursed item off on you without arising too much suspicion.
Or maybe... a pendant that makes a sword stronger is useless to a baker?
@@cpp_medium_rare3474 That's what someone wanting to get rid of their cursed item would want you to think...
@@cpp_medium_rare3474 what, you've never used a sword to cut a loaf of bread???
@@Nareimooncatt if your toast wasn't sliced with a broadsword are you even eating toast?
@@Nareimooncatt I hardly think 25% extra cutting power would be necessary for bread if you're using a sword, even a crappy one.
In Faxanadu's case, a lot of the playtesting and balancing would presumably have been done with the bug in place, and fixing it could effectively make the earlier parts of the game harder than intended. That might be fine, or it might be undesirable, but either way it makes the question a bit more complicated to answer.
Maybe the fix should be more elaborate, with 'normal' (boosted) strength being set as default, the and the pendant boosting it *even further*?
True.
@@ShinoSarna considering presumably people beat the game without the boost, a double boost might be bad for balance too
@@user-sl6gn1ss8p What? No, average person beat the game WITH the boost. Rewatch the video - in current version of Faxanadu, you *start* with the boost, and only lose it if you go for the optional Pendant.
So removing the boost will upset the normal balance by making the early section of the game before you can get the Pendant harder.
I have to agree. This is a bug that might be best fixed by breaking the pendant entirely -- that is, change the check to be an unconditional branch so that the beginning of the game isn't harder but collecting the pendant doesn't nerf you.
Giving people a choice between playing "classic" and "updated" mode seems like the sensible thing to do.
Absolutely. When you have enough power to emulate a previous title, you almost inherently have the luxury of including the ROM twice, or the ROM + patches. Why _not_ have both?
I've really been enjoying lots of rom hacks lately because of this. I could play the original, or I could use this hack to add some quality of life improvements, iron out some of the things that annoyed me. Sure, I'll use the hack, because the original isn't going anywhere.
Why is it "sensible"? It's more dev time, bugfixing probably seems more sensible to some than a toggle, or maybe just leave it as it is. But the whole thing is flawed for those that want "the original experience" because if you really care about playing it the way it was you shouldn't be playing in an emulator on modern hardware to begin with. This is all part of the "fake nostalgia about things I never experienced" fad: "Oh no! That game I've never played as a kid has to have that bug I've only now heard about, otherwise it's not nostalgic!"
I do enjoy old games but I welcome good gameplay, be it if it was the original one, or through mods, I've even modded some games myself because I thought things like 8 hotkey inventory slots were worse than 10, and that required constant swapping, for example. Gameplay and quality of life is king, it's just a hobby.
@@trinidad17 Putting in a menu option to enable bugs would be a waste of time, but I think allowing players to download an earlier version of a game would be fairly easy to do and wouldn't cause issues so long as the unpatched version can't play online.
IIRC Steam lets you do that for most games, which is pretty cool, especially for games which have mods only compatible with certain versions.
@@trinidad17 Having a menu option to pick between two different versions of a game takes zero effort. It can no joke be implemented within a minute.
For my 2 cents. i remember reading an interview about the ocarina of time remake
[Originally, the team was excited to have a chance to fix all of the bugs that had been discovered since the game's release. but then someone said 'no wait, bugs can be fun' and used the speedrun community, and how the bugs have expanded the gameplay as an example. so to compromise, the team only went out of their way to fix bugs that the standard player was likely to see on the playthrough, but left everything else as it was]
This honestly seems to me like the best compromise possible. For something like the pendant. it is genuinely a bug that affects a majority of not most of the players, so i think it should be fixed, assuming that it genuinely is not working as intended / accidently backwards.
but, just like the example with the super mario wall clip, if it's a bug that does not negatively affect gameplay (crashing, making the game unplayable, etc) then i think it's cool to leave it in and see what crafty players can do with it
I think they added some original glitches back into the 3ds remake that weren't there from remaking it.
@@lickagoat My favourite is the 9 - 5 rock. Grezzo put a boulder in the Kakariko Well as child to block the various glitches that let you enter before you get Song of Storms, but for whatever reason they flagged it to only be present during the day... so you just have to wait for it to knock off work and you can use exactly the same methods as N64 OoT to enter.
I’ll have to disagree with you bro. The point of playing a game really well is playing the game how it’s meant to be played. When someone finds a bug or a glitch it’s through testing and de coding. Finding a way to cheat the game is fun I’ll admit but when someone cheats YOUR game by corruption and code manipulation…. Dude fix it. If that’s what having fun playing games is for you then go de code the number pi
I agree totally :) balancing and ”fixing” games isnt always the most fun. I think you are spot on.
I think castlevania symphony of the night is the most perfect game ever made regarding bugs, balancing and ”cheats”. Like infinite money. Realising if you stand safely on a wedge, having the game on all night, while letting your bat attack enemies, and you are max level the next day. Just awesome. One of the best games ever made.. and the soundtrack. Wow
Personally, if I were in charge of fixing the bug, I'd have you do 125% damage without the pendant and 140% damage with the pendant, in order to avoid unbalancing both the early game and the late game too much.
This is the correct answer, because it's what the game set players up to expect.
@@Fauntleroy. no it aint, the game was well funded and playtested. the difficulty curve was refined with this quirk in place - the above solution would make the game much easier than intended, especially in the pre-pendant levels during which you will be 25% stronger than was playtested. given this i personally think the pendant is a troll, especially because in the town of the pendant an npc calls it a relic and says "it would be better if you keep it"
@@josephcotter5285 The game may have adopted the bug as a feature and even balanced the game based on it, although games back then weren't that well balanced to begin with, but from the code it's obviously a bug. So sure, it may make the worse after the fact but honestly it's silly to argue about what should or shouldn't be done about it, play the patched version or not, or roll your own if you're happy with that.
@@josephcotter5285 You're missing the point. The item is a curse, but the game lies about it. Once players know about it, they can avoid it. That is not careful balancing. That's just a bug and its consequences. The early game is balanced for 125% of attack power, from the beginning. Reduce that to 100%, and it becomes harder than what was playtested and shipped on a cart.
@@trinidad17 I just don't see how fixing the bug improves the game experience at all. It adds clarity and sensibility, two things that are often good, but how are they fun? The charm of most games, especially in hindsight, are their flaws. Removing the flaws creates a "better" product, but a far less desirable one. People err on the side of artistic intent, but in reality totally intentional art is typically mediocre and hardly worth remembering. In my opinion it is not a baseline we should be modifying existing experiences toward, and I don't even think it's a good baseline for "good design" in modern games.
Interesting that the bug fix would go against what people would anticipate the result being. The fix involves being weaker at the beginning, with the item getting you back to the base strength. Raises the question if it should buff further since that's what you'd expect from a black-box testing perspective (that is one that can't observe the code or inner workings)
My thoughts exactly. Let's get a part 2 with a game genie implementing the extra buff as expected!
Right? This 'fix' actually makes the game harder, altering the game design.
@@Peffse I wonder if fix would be as easy that in addition to changing logic, you'd also have to fix default damage output.
The question is, is damage from new weapons you get absolute values in a table or a relative bonus over a default value? Because second would be too many values for a Game Genie code.
Would be also the question if game balancing was done including the bug. I would assume yes.
@@neur303 Yeah, I think that's also exactly where my mind went
In Final Fantasy 5, the Dagger-damage-formula is bugged, mostly ignoring the agility stat and gives you less attack power than it should. However, daggers are still some of the strongest weapons in the game for a variety of reasons, suggesting the balancing and testing was done with the broken formula
This game was nightmare fuel for me when I was a kid. Mostly that enemy that hops around and has a bulging eyeball, but the whole atmosphere of the game really hit me as well.
As a game developer, there isn’t a single game I’ve worked on that I wouldn’t want to bug fix on a re-release. “Intent” and “what we shipped” never quite align.
Additionally, some games are bad. Not all developers are omniscient. There are definitely seemingly innocuous choices made during development that, through mass distribution, are revealed to be very bad for game balance, or very good. The director of Majora's Mask said something to that effect when he talked about how a lot of aspects of the game are very different, rushed, or experimental, and he himself doesn't understand what fans saw in the game. He wouldn't change a thing, how could he?
So, with Faxanadu -- It's clear some NES games have bad difficulty curves. There's many games featured on, say, AVGN that with only a few small changes could be quite good. The Castlevania II Redacted hack comes to mind. Faxanadu has been played by countless people with a higher damage output early game than the developers intended, and lower damage output late game than intended. People enjoyed the game and it has good reviews. I could imagine that cutting player damage by 25% early game (when the player isn't as good or is learning mechanics) would overall be *bad* for the game. And more difficult enemies late game is standard fare.
Plenty of games have undertuned difficulty curves. For instance Gym 3 Whitney in Pokémon Gold/Silver being absurdly difficult, meanwhile the Elite 4 in GS being extremely easy.
It's not necessarily up to the developer whether or not a certain difficulty curve is good, bad, intended or not. So that said, even if the "intent" of the pendant was to give the player a power boost, they most certainly also "intended" the game to have an enjoyable difficulty curve, and both things can be at odds with each other.
But there is a difference between what you intend your code to do and applying fixes and the community guessing what your intentions are and applying their "fixes".
what you shipped might actually align more with what players actually want though - to give an extreme example: can you imagine quake being patched to "fix" strafejumping? or for another example of an unintended game mechanic - combos in the original street fighter II. and then there's just funny bugs/glitches, that give a game some extra charm, like ghandi being a nuke-flinging warmonger in civilization II :)
@@GiuseppeGaetanoSabatelliWhitney's not absurdly difficult, we just all played GSC when we were 10
@@GiuseppeGaetanoSabatelli you're seeing the pendant as not what it is, it is an OPTIONAL item, not something that everyone will have later, it should not be balanced around it, and most likely, people that struggle would like to get it.
So i say, its definitely important here.
I would say to update the pendant itself. "The town cast away a cursed pendant. Take it for a challenge." "Hinders your ability to attack by sword."
It works because you can't get rid of it without cheating. It's a perfect curse. Though, you could always add a small amount of dialogue allowing you to "lift" the curse for something in return.
I'm instantly mindblown hearing it as "fazanadu" since it was always a hard X to me
Same
It will always be the hard X to me, even knowing the origins of the name.
They said it with a hard X in Captain N.
Right? "Faks-zana-doo".
I loved Faxanadu. I definitely think it was one of the most underrated NES games!
Yes! The music is fantastic as well. One of the top of the NES era imo.
Definitely top 10 for sure!
Me too
It was well regarded back in the day, I certainly loved it.
100% agreed! It's fun, has its own charm and style - still love it.
Mod and fix and remix games all you want. The original roms are still there. It's a false dichotomy to think only one or the other can exist or be enjoyed.
He means rereleased bro
@@martymoist ratio
@@martymoist preservationists aren't going to fret over whether a re-release on say the Nintendo Switch is a bit-exact rom copy. These companies can do whatever they want with the game that they think will provide a new or great experience.
@@martymoist bro I can't believe that Falcom busted down my door and dropped my copy of Faxanadu in acid, then made me pay $20 for the rerelease. I'm glad they didn't find my hidden extra copy that I keep in a safe.
@@MikeStavola i can't either
because hudson made faxanadu
Reminds me of the Focus Energy bug in Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow. It’s best to just not use the move at all since it lowers the chance of getting a critical hit rather than increasing it like the game states.
Wait really? I didn't know that.
I almost feel like a "proper" fix at this point is to make the boosted damage the default and make the pendant increase it further. Like most of the game was likely tuned with the boosted damage being the default so just fixing the check would throw off the tunings from the developer. So keep damage the way it was and have the pendant increase that damage would be my vote.
I was hoping he provided a code that did this.
@burstyourbubble3500 The narrator confused some people with the explanation. The default damage isn't actually "boosted" per se, it's simply the default. The pendant just decreases it by 25% instead of increasing it by 25%, thus making the remainder of the game after picking it up, more of a challenge. If a re-release of this game were to be made, they should A) fix the bug, and B) provide different challenge/difficulty modes for those who do want more of a challenge from this game. If a REMAKE were to be made (meaning that the game would be wholly different from the NES original), be careful not to have the bug there in the first place!
@burstyourbubble3500 Your last comment got removed from public viewing for some reason, but I'll reply to it nonetheless. I wasn't really advocating for one side or another, but simply saying that they should offer a "fixed/patched" option on a re-release so that the game could be played in the manner that the developers wanted it to be played, and to offer "quality of life" improvements for gamers who want it. You can also keep a "classic version" mode in place for those who want to play it the way it was originally released (bugs and all). After all, save states were not included in any of these old NES titles, but re-releases seem to have that option for those who want it.
@burstyourbubble3500 It's possible, but I disagree. I even did some research on the matter, and most game developers themselves agree that this was simply an error with the programming. However, no one has been able to track down and interview the actual programmer who made the error (and I'm guessing he probably doesn't want to talk about it, if he's even alive). And since the game was made for consoles only (NES and Famicom) before internet connectivity, it never got patched / fixed.
As for nostalgia/charm, some people are for it, and others want the bugs fixed. With older games like this, you can have both by maintaining a classic mode, or play an enhanced mode. As I explained last time, save states which are so common in re-releases, are welcomed by most gamers... and many bug fixes would be too!
@burstyourbubble3500 Actually, a lot of the older games that get PHYSICAL re-releases on newer consoles are often indeed re-coded with enhanced functions and features that weren't there before, like save states, and you guessed it... bug fixes as well. And even when playing older games as digital downloads on virtual consoles / emulators on modern hardware, it isn't quite the same due to frame rates / speed differences and such, even if the game software / ROM hasn't been modified. And the player can also make use of whatever advantages the VC or emulator gives them as well (like save states, editors, etc.). In any case, when it comes to re-releases, I'm for including BOTH the classic version, and an enhanced version (with known bug fixes) whenever possible. This I believe, is what will please most gamers. 😌
They should make the fix an option. For example: nobody plays doom with infinitely tall monsters but almost every source port has the option to turn it back on for the classic vanilla experience.
I definitely agree with quality of life updates, as long as it doesn't ruin the game.
But then, when we get into the details of what counts as "ruining the game", things get divisive again...
@@arturoaguilar6002 just fix the dumb enemy ai, make clearer letters, and fix the bugged item. That's really all it needs.
I've had some very annoying moments where some bosses camp in one spot underneath. Or when the riot guard repeatedly knocks me off the ladder while I'm trying to get back up. It helps to bring wing boots in certain places. ^_^'
The obvious solution would be to have an option called "pendant fix" and a brief description explaining what it does, have it on by default, and then let people turn it off if they want to play the game as it originally was. In the case of a re-release with multiple bug fixes and quality of life changes I think it'd be really neat to have an entire options page dedicated to them so people can turn on and off what they want, that way people can choose to experience the original as it was or a more refined and polished version (or something in between)
One of my favorite games of all time and never knew there were different revisions with text. Thanks!
Me as well. I was wanted sequels and discovered that its a spin off of the dragon slayer series and similiar some Y's games
I did figure out that there were two versions of Zelda. Mostly because my brother sold our original rev 0 copy and the one I bought used MUCH later was rev 1 without the battery save warning after you killed yourself. I also noticed the same thing with Donkey Kong Country. My friends version had a different colored explosion for TNT barrels. It was white smoke for his but red fire in mine
OMG yes. I was watching those earlier clips and going "WTF, the font is wrong, what the heck is with this, is this an emulator glitch?" And then...
Me either. Dat original font. I copied the password wrong once. Needless to say I had to start all over again. -.-
@@Adrastia My older brothers friend came over to play this and brought his password, from memory. He got it wrong once or twice but got it correct the third time. Way to many characters for my young age back then, I was amazed.
I was actually surprised when I found out there was a revision of Faxanadu in the US. I've seen and played many copies of it but I've never ran into a cartridge with the revised text.
I am obsessed with this game. I appreciate you giving it some love.
This was super cool. I had no idea the pendant was busted, nor did I know there were tools online to generate passwords. Good stuff!
Because all you need is the Justin Bailey password for Metroid.
@@GabePuratekutalol
One of my favorite NES games as a kid. We had the original version and I can't tell you how many written down passwords ended up not working because of that stupid font. I didn't know there was a revised version until many years later.
Yoooooo Faxanadu! My first Dark Souls. Love this game, good to see it getting some love!!
This was one of my favorite games as a kid. I was a huge RPG fan and this was one of the first Nintendo games to do that genre well, IMO. I did notice the Pendant's Ill effect and thought it was a cursed item. I never read instruction books, though. Still don't. It's probably why my Ikea bed keeps folding around me like a cozy iron maiden.
Memory foam _is_ a cursed item
Great video. I've played Faxanadu a million times and never knew that the Pendant decreased you attack! Blowing my mind 30 years later.
I take it back, that TAS password generator would've totally blown my mind! That's amazing that you can customize the password system so precisely like that!
Great video as always! One of my favorite channels and I watch RUclips a lot of the day while working, so you should feel proud.
Thank you for spending several hours to make this video. It may only be 10 minutes long, but this week has been hard for me and this video is a good refreshment
The way the game has been implemented I would say leave player attack at 125% with out pendant and boost to 150% with pendant. That way the earlier part of the game doesn't change. And for a re-release of the game let the player toggle legacy mode to run it as it was originally released.
The early part is hard enough for a casual playthrough.
@@inthefade Right, and taking away the 25% boost would make it even harder. The fact is the game was playtested and balanced with that extra attack power on. By the time you get saddled with the pendant, your attack power has been boosted enough by other factors that it doesn't hurt much. It would be a mistake to just flip that one logic decision without compensating for the loss of default attack power.
@Burst Your Bubble Game balancing just means making the game hard enough to be interesting but not so hard that players throw their controllers at the television and stomp their console to death rather than continue playing. So if we assume that people find it challenging enough with a default, unpatched 125% attack bonus, making it less is going in the wrong direction. If it always took 4 hits to kill a certain enemy, making it take 5 just to correct the bug is just crapping on players expectations.
That is why fixing the bug in a way that reflects what the player expects from reading the manual is the more thoughtful and correct course of action, original developers and play testers be damned, they didn't get it right in the first place so who cares about their opinion?
Faxanadu was one of my favorites (I use that term loosely) as a child. This video was informative and incredibly entertaining. Thanks for going down this rabbit hole for us!
Man! I just watched a play through of this and they mentioned this bug, so glad you made this video! Gotta love this awesome community!
Thank you, Displaced Gamers. I'll remember this patch mantra.
My whole life, my greatest video game wishlist has been more of faxanadu. The gameplay itself is pretty good, but the music and visual anesthetic are still staggeringly unique and alien. I just want to explore an even taller world tree, fight new and different meteor infected dwarves, use more items, etc of his bizarre, eerie, fascinating world.
Some guy made a "faxanadu remastered" a few years ago, as a tribute, but the new HD music he introduced felt off, and the smooth scrolling instead of single screen levels too radically changed the feel, but mainly, it really just expanded the areas and music that were already there, instead of new areas that I wanted.
I'm so glad I found this channel. I can't recall whether I found it via another channel's video linked in a news story, from my phone's feed, of the 13-yr old that "beat" Tetris or a recommended video from RUclips while watching one of the AVGN's episodes on Jekyll & Hyde. So far I've found both videos (the fixing of Jekyll & Hyde, and Faxanadu) both crazy interesting. As someone that writes in multiple programming languages including ASM for the x86 / x64 platform, as well as the NES, I VERY much appreciate the attention to technical detail and just find it really fascinating. I've co-presented a talk at a hacker convention on NES game hacking, a few years back. There were definitely some things I wish I understood better. For example, Who Framed Roger Rabbit's randomization. For me, an interest in that specific game came to me after watching Mike Matei, on the Cinnemascre (Angry Video Game Nerd's) channel, try to get items to spawn in specific locations by doing the same actions but modifying one thing each reset of the NES). Obviously, I NEVER believe I know everything about anything I do; I may be confident in my abilities, but I always try to learn more and more because I know there's more to learn, and so having you be able to break down a lot of the code and how it works REALLY is appreciated and helps me learn because, and not that it's some sort of competition, but you're obviously better than I at NES assembly :) And that's ok, I'm glad there's people way better than I, it's how one learns; it's the sharing of information. I'm grateful you're willing to share the knowledge! Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing the knowledge! :)
Thank you, I'm blown away. I didnt know they managed to decode the password. It's such a great game.
"If you don't like technical stuff, feel free to skip ahead"
who's gonna tell 'em
I'm a math geek but tbh decoding passcodes in a step by step slow fashion is as fun as sanding my eyes, so I don't even care about any possible easter egg. It's like saying "you don't like technical stuff if you haven listened to the whole 68h album of the 100000 digits of pi being narrated by David Attenborough".
Those things are fun to reverse engineer yourself or even to implement, but not to watch someone else do a detailed explanation of it.
@@trinidad17 I think it can be interesting for someone who's never thought about how passwords were implemented and has never heard of a checksum before. It's much more informative than the digits of pi (though I do understand and appreciate that this is hyperbole).
@@alxjones Sure, I get you, people. It's a tutorial, maybe a great neat and cozy beautiful explanation. Not talking about that though.
But I imagine you know how to do multiplication by hand, now go see a step by step multiplication tutorial. It's neat to learn, boring if you know it, which is what I took it to mean when he talks about liking technical stuff, because I do like technical stuff a lot, but doesn't mean I like rehashing basic arithmetic stuff.
@Burst Your Bubble Thanks, I didn't say it wasn't neat. Just as learning to add is neat, and people can teach it beautifully, it's still boring to watch a step by step explanation of it.
"Don't be a hater" :P
Since you always have the boost before getting the pendant and lose it afterwards, the entire game plays differently if you fix the bug - not just after you get the pendant. That's a pretty big change.
Frankly, I would just consider the item cursed and move on.
Well, it is still a bug, so adding a "trivia section" that the item is cursed into the electronic manual would be a fair compromise.
@@sarowie No proof that it’s a bug. Could also be a translation error, or intentional misdirect. Regardless, even if a mistake, the game would have been play-tested and balanced as-is, so the difficulty is likely as intended.
@@johnnyc.31 Did you even watch the video? The way it is programmed proves it is a bug. If it was meant to be a cursed item it would be coded to give negatives to your character's power.
@@Arbbal That is how your logic works perhaps, but a programmer may choose to implement the variables however they choose. There are many possible reasons to implement this way, including if it was a cursed item. There may have been other items planned to modify this value that didn’t make the final game. There is no way you can know for certain what the intent was, without talking to the person who made it.
@@johnnyc.31 Well, there is one way... just ask the people who made it. That is, assuming they clearly remember the details of a game they worked on about 35 years ago.
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Just came across your channel, well done on making a potentially dry and boring topic very understandable and interesting!
There’s also the case of changing things in a rerelease to fit cultural changes, such as how Jynx is re-colored to purple in some virtual console ports.
With Faxanadu I actually prefer the patches the restore the censored (in NA) graphics.
@@jayjasespud you would probably be better off finding a language patch to a Japanese copy of the game.
I personally prefer original art and faithful scripts without any changes or censorship to fit with in the current culture. Games are a product of their time and shouldn’t be changed to fit anyone’s personal ideas
@@crestofhonor2349 what about stuff that in hindsight was crazy racist? Like a lot of Japanese games that had blackface characters because they had no idea about the negative stereotype and were just copying western media.
I kinda feel like it's OK to update stuff like that but thinking about it more, there is historical value in keeping it as-is but having disclaimers and stuff like how they handle older movies on streaming services. It's not like we move past difficult subjects by pretending they never existed.
@@yoso378 Yes keep that in. It doesn't bother me in the same way old cartoons don't bother me. They are products of their time
Definitely agree, fix a bug when able. This was a delightful watch!
Thank you for finally giving me this game's title! I have been wondering what this game was for years, some phantom memory from my very young childhood XD
This channel is amazing. Im glad I found it.
This game seriously needs a remake!
As long as they keep it a side scroller
I just want it to come to modern consoles
Truer words were never spoken.
In the case of intense flashing colors and legit game breaking bugs, it should absolutely be done.
Great video! You're (again!) one of the very few people who even talk about this. Another case would be the smoke texture in Super Mario 64 where the data is (probably) interpreted in the wrong format. It is very likely that the way it looked in the original game is not what they intended (still, afaik they never fixed it), but I would always give users an option to decide. It should probably come with an explanation, comparison screenshots, or even a small video. As for Faxanadu: Someone should seek out the developers and ask them about it. Next video? ;)
This is a fantastic video. Please do more content like this!
This is definingly one of those topics where tolerance of differences is called for. Because at the end of the day, those who want fixes WILL make or get their fixes. And those who want old-school WILL get just that. So we can argue over it all we want, but it's wasted effort and energy. Best consensus is to accept it will happen and respect the fact both should be options.
If updating old games results in more Behind the Code episodes, then absolutely.
I love seeing some of my favorite games covered like this. I also love that you pronounced the title correctly (which I never did as a kid tbf.) Since it's technically part of Falcom's Xanadu series, it is Fa(micom) Xanadu.
Great breakdown of how the password works. very cool and interesting!
Thing is - the game was probably balanced with regards to this bug. So you'll get the proper experience (the challenge developers intended) if you don't patch the game and pick up the item.
Yeah let's rebalance the WHOLE GAME around this bug instead of fixing it by flipping one bit...
What kind of desing philosophy is this? This to me sound like working hard rather than working smart.
@@JoelHernandez-tz3vk they probably weren't aware of the bug while balancing the game
@@shortcat Or maybe they just ran out of time to test the game with the pendant equipped and had to ship. Most likely they playtested the game without the pendant as a way to finish the game at the bare minimum and balance the difficulty level that way.
@@JoelHernandez-tz3vk It's exactly the opposite. The game was playtested and balanced with this bug in place. If you just fix it by flipping the pendant logic, then the player is going to lose that extra 25% attack power from the very beginning of the game, and it will become harder than intended right off the bat. The game is hard enough early on. Making entry into it more difficult would be a mistake.
@@joesterling4299 Actually my mistake is
that I assumed the developer knew that the pendant was programmed backwards BEFORE deciding the enemy hit points in the first place.
Or at least that seems to be my mistake anyway.
This was disgustingly interesting.
this is all fascinating. There's so much video game content on youtube, but so little with genuine new insight. I wish there were more channels like this one.
So important for people to keep digging and finding things, as opposed to chasing their tails for views :/
@@MarMaxGaming any suggestions?
@@xeostube hmmm… I think “punching weight” does a nice job, that gets into the nitty gritty and appreciates obscure / forgotten titles for what they were able to do in their time…
This other suggestion might just make you laugh but it IS a world’s first… we made the first ever “NES bike” where I ran behind it 🚴 🏃 while beating ninja gaiden in 3 miles.. but that’s on the other end of the spectrum, I’d say 😂
Also - StrafeFox, forgot to mention them… also NESComplex is really great analysis. Strafeox is astounding though, bc he puts together all of his own 3d visuals with his special effects / visuals software. It’s mind blowing, actually. It makes you feel like you’re in these different gaming environments and you can tell he bleeds passion so hard.
Amazing video as always!!
Is there an ecosystem which offers quality of life improvements (save states, rewind, video recording, cheats) and home brew games or versions of games with options to toggle on select bugs?
probably the reason why the game was not patched after the release was that if you do it, you basically increase the difficulty of the game at its beginning. In fact, it is possible that the developers actually made that change in purpose to make the game easier if some very-late-during-crunch report of high difficulty arrived.
It would certainly be a quick way to do that very thing.
I just beat this game a couple of years ago on my NES. I didn't look up anything on it, but I didn't know about a pendant bug. Nice info, though! And thanks for covering this great game!
Great questions at the end, perfect examples of questions without definitive answers
I'm a simple man. I see Faxanadu, I hit that like button! Game was, and still is, most excellent!
An all-time favourite of mine as well, yet it did not get nearly the love it deserved when it came out. Heck, I was the only kid I knew who had it! My Dad and I rented it a couple times and decided we liked it so much, that it was worth buying.
@@legionarybooks13 It's weird thinking back to before the internet and simply buying a game because the artwork looked cool or some magazine recommended it or you happen to inherit games from a friend/family. My Genesis/NES collections were full of mediocre games but also a couple gems that I wouldn't have experienced otherwise; Faxanadu being one of them! There's a place in town called Video Game Wizards which I used to rent from. Happy to report they are still open and have a massive game collection to buy from!
Personally, I'll usually take an old game warts and all. I want that "historical reenactment" type experience, the same one I would have had it I'd played the game at release. This is why I also play on real hardware, don't use save states, don't use online guides (original manuals are allowed), map some very complex games like Phantasy Star on paper by hand, etc. If I'm playing a 1987 game, I'm darn well going to play it like it's 1987!
That's just me, though. The main exception I make is for fan translations.
That level of self-control is uncommon, and I respect it.
Nonetheless, if a bug would have been an embarrassment in '87 and they would have patched if given the chance, I consider it fair game to patch today.
The point of NEW games is to make similar experiences but better, and the Mortal Kombat guys understood this with Ermac. It's amazing people are able to UNDER perform artfulness of MORTAL KOMBAT of all things, but sure, let's fix Mona Lisa's ambiguous smile as well.
But that only shows why consumer products WON'T be art. Just like the Switch SNES games that "nobody asked for", because that museum is boooooring.
Great video! It made me think of a topic that might be worthy of another video.
Consider: For a long time, it was assumed that the MAME version of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 (UMK3) had a bug preventing Scorpion from finishing his iconic "Get over here" voice line, it gets cut off as "Get ov-". Similarly, his "Come here" voice line is cut at "Come-".
Since then, other people have claimed this bug not related to the MAME emulation but as bug that was present with the original arcade cabinets. How they proved that I'm not sure.
Doing some google searches, it appears that some modders have since patched the bug, but unfortunately the patch also includes a host of other changes that divert from the original game. As far as I know, there isn't a version of the ROM with just the voice line fixed and the rest left alone.
Anyway, it was an interesting rabbit hole to travel down, and maybe one that's worth researching more.
Love hearing your thoughts.
With the password system you can actually start with the pendant AND THEN remove it from the password once you get to the place where you get it, so obtaining the entire desired effect without patching the game
This game was tested and approved with the balance involving the damage boost being normal. The proper fix should be to leave that boost and give an ADDITIONAL boost when you get the pendant.
the post-pendant part of the game was approved with balance involving the damage loss of the pendant. The challenge was scaled according to the player having the pendant, it might not even have been tested under the assumption that players would miss the item. Instead, you'd have to pick a moment in the game where you're expected to have the pendant, and at that moment decrease player damage unless they're holding it. Or, better yet, leave the game flawed.
@@tetryst The pendant is at the very end of the game, so it's safe to assume more testing was done without it. The only new enemy that appears after you would get the pendant is the final boss, as far as I remember. That boss would be the only other adjustment to make by increasing its HP, but it's really unneccessary because it's not a hard or unique boss anyways; it was phoned-in from a design perspective.
That would be a bad way about going about it. Would just make the game easier aka worse
Flip the byte and make yourself weaker in the early part of the game would be the way to go and actually getting stronger because of the pendant.
@@johnnyslokes2712 Have you played through the entire game? It's hard and your character is already weak. The game would be MUCH WORSE if simple travel became more tedious because your damage output was lower. This change wouldn't make it easier overall, it would only make the final boss easier while making the pendant consistent with the description and expectations.
@@grimfang4 Its not that hard dude have some patience
Fascinating video. I beat Faxanadu never knowing the pendant gave me the extra challenge.
Fascinating piece, DG! I wasn't familiar with Faxanadu, but this sort of little bug can be found in all sorts of titles stretching back to my beloved Atari 2600. The pendant here seems to pretty clearly be an annoyance, but many of the "bugs" I encountered in my youth, I considered to be fun glitches or exploits to discover. It made me feel like I'd discovered a secret window into the software.
"It's best for the town if YOU keep it," she glares at you in a way which suggests she secretly means 'because the damned thing is cursed and we don't wanna be cursed anymore!'
I play the oldest versions of games so I can do funny speedrun strats in my casual playthrough. I wish old bugs (save for crashes) would be persevered in rereleases rather than squashed.
I love the Xanadu series! So so cool to see this covered
Thanks for another great video!
I'm surprised that the password only has 8 bits for the event flags. I've never played Faxanadu, but it looks like it's heavy on the RPG elements. Thanks for breaking down the password, that might be my favorite part of the video.
Yeah, I realized that I've never wondered how old games handled passwords before, but now that you brought it up, I did!
Bisqwit has a whole video series about how this works!
@@BagOfMagicFood thanks, I’ll check it out!
That game brings memories... Like back when "X" was not pronounces as "Z"... Ah the good old day.
Back when you could send a faz or play around with hezadecimals. I'm gonna go out and chop some wood with my aze.
Workaround: After defeating the mini-boss, jump a message saying that the enemies became stronger and that you need the pendant to compensate for the damage of the strong enemies a little :D
I love the idea of "Man, I am glad I got the pendant! These late game enemies are TOUGH"
I use to speed run this game. Thanks for the video!
I also agree that toggles are the best! Power to the user.
And good job on the music selection! Wolf and Raven rocks hard!
It's worth considering that simply "fixing" this bug might break the game in other ways. For all you know the designers spent months tweaking weapon damage and enemy health given that 25% damage boost. A proper fix would require a design pass that rebalances the game for the weaker attack.
Why would the game need to be rebalanced? People were already playing it with the pendant all these years.
@@bonchbonch That is exactly their point, the game was probably tested without the knowledge that a 25% damage boost was constantly in effect. So, they most likely designed the entire early game around the boost. Removing the boost would cause the early game to feel more difficult (maybe, TOO difficult.) The impact of removing said boost could have a much wider effect than simply "fixing" a bug.
Obviously, this is speculation, and it's more likely that they thought to themselves "A 25% damage boost could be fun" and that was well after enemy hit counts and whatnot were designed/calculated.
"If you don't like technical stuff, feel free to skip ahead."
Bitch, that's what I'm here for.
First of all, great vid! I am so glad that this game is getting a lot of love now...lately too it would seem. Next up, the fact that the Townspeople literally say "It's better you have it." makes it seem like the pendant was in fact cursed. It's just too much of a coincidence to be a throwaway line. But if that WAS the intent, it's still way too cryptic a hint. Especially if it involves an item that can be the difference between winning and losing a boss fight.
Especially when it’s called town of SUFFER
Great video! I've never gotten into Faxanadu beyond just playing for a few minutes. I should probably take another look at it thanks to you. I'll make sure to avoid that pendant hahaha.
I'd love to see someone do some bug fixes to Activision's Ghostbusters II. There's no pause function(even though the start button goes completely unused throughout the game), the action and jump buttons are inexplicably mapped to A and B respectively on all side-scrolling levels, and said levels auto-scroll to the left instead of the standard right-scrolling levels of literally every other game! Entirely counterintuitive to the way most people naturally play. If these three things could be changed, I think the game would be a far better play.
BONUS POINTS if someone can change the color of the players slime projectile from green to pink or purple :P
Never thought I'd ever watch a video about an NES game with a bug that also has a reference to one of the coolest racing games ever made, namely F-Zero. Well done sir!
I've never heard of this game but I'd like to see a more in depth look at the save system. I always wondered how password save systems worked and even the overview was enlightening.
That technical segment was great - didn't get too abstract at all I thought!
Faxanadu?! In my youtube recommendations?! I thought the world have moved on. I'm happy to see this :)
I only noticed the "subtitle" after watching half of this video and asking, "Is this only just going to be on Faxanadu?!"
great video! keep em coming
Can you do more about Faxanadu?
This is fascinating.
My favorite (one of the best) games.
This mans has looked up the game genie stuff to work this out. Amazing.
This channel is such a hidden gem wtf
Quake's recent update went with the split option - they folded all of Quake and its expansions into a new, shiny, modernized version that breaks backwards compatibility (I think), but provide all the classic versions as-is alongside it.
This is a slightly different situation, but it should be *easier* for an emulated game to provide the split, in theory.
This was also the case with the Turok remaster, which was more of a re-release. You could play the game without the fog, or with the fog enabled for that authentic experience.
People would always want to have the authentic experience, untouched since day one of the original release.
Excellent ! Thanks !
Awesome video as I do own the cart for this game. I'll have to patch a rom for it to fix that bug next time I play it.
Very interesting stuff to think about! I think the answer to the last question is very simple: those who want the most pure, unadultered experience should not be playing modern re-releases, but simply play the original games on original hardware. With a bit more nuance, I imagine most people can be flexible on how much change from the original they accept on a case-by-case basis.
I loved Faxanadu back in its day. But I wince every time you say "Fassanadu." I always thought it was pronounced "Fax-anadu." You're probably right, given the game has real ties to "Xanadu," which I do pronounce "Sanadu." But still. Auditory disconnect.
I never knew about this bug. I learned something new today. Thanks.
I was coming to the comments to suggest an options toggle when you brought it up.
Konami's TMNT collection actually gives one of the best answers to this: have toggles for these features. In the TMNT collection, the NES games have flicker and slowdown removal toggles, as well as some other things. This could be the same way.
Appreciate the probably-correct pronunciation of Faxanadu (literally Fa-as-in-Famicom-Xanadu), even though in my head it will always be Fax-anadu.
Dude, NOBODY called it 'Fazanadu' back in the day 😆!
Having the option gives more discussion material, which is great value for a rerelease!
OMFG, I've been trying to remember what this game was. I thought I was going crazy because no one else seemed to know what I was taking about. King's Quest: Mask of Eternity. Thank you so very much. I could kiss you. Now I can't wait to play it again!
I played this game a bunch as a kid and never knew about this bug. Never knew there were password generators, I gotta go revisit this one now.