I think thats a big reason why HE nades clear smokes. CT's waste an early smoke and T's waste a nade. I think Valve wants to balance the ultility usage on inferno
Not very fun waiting for a guy on mid to dink you after, or subsequent grenades trying to get away from T ramp. It will force them to rotate to under or kitchen(T apps).
@@CrusheryCS"purely on the damage problem" what. HE thrown from T spawn will literally not touch anyone T side. Smokes remains dissipated for like 2-3 seconds. That's a LONG time if you are supposedly taking mid control or banana. All for the cost of one small HE throw out of spawn. Smoke is strong but not OP as you're making it out to be
you'd have to throw the HE before the smoke even lands to not damage and slow your teammates on a rush and even then with spawns Ts will be coming through the smoke while it's coming back@@symbolitical4158
The smokes definitely meant to play around. why? Valve specifically removed skyboxes for this, for creativity and to change the meta of how smokes are being used. CT side can now take aggressive space by throwing spawn smokes rather than just sit back and let T side attack.
If I recall correctly, valve actually opened up the Inferno skybox before, when they remade the map in 2016. Bottom Banana smokes from spawn and all over the map made Inferno wayyy too CT sided, and they actually blocked the skybox off again. I'm not sure how I feel. We definitely have some T counterplay with HEs. We don't have any such utility available to the Ts which might be a solution. Valve will look at the data and sort accordingly over time.
i like the idea of spawn smokes, theres more than a few on dust 2, the map may need to be tweaked a lil bit for them though, inferno is really reliant on being able to contest both sides of the map
pretty sure the best T spawns beats this smoke, since the lineup for the CT player is very precise, and he needs to get into that position before throwing it, which at best takes 2 seconds, depending on his spawn.
This smoke provides issues in a pug environment (mainly due to the less efficient communication between players), while Faze’s smoke is an evolution of this one within a teamplay condition. I love how pro teams sit down and develop theory :)
@@CrusheryCS u can just flash mid and go mexico for mid control and theres a lot of space in banana to hide so it doesn't really do much compared to Faze's smoke which blocks off Mexico completely and the cornor. it's just a little too deep that you can easily take the space in mid and banana from the ct's.
T just run into the smoke to molly banana, hold the apps and 2nd mid and wait a bit to start the round later. So CT utilities will be wasted. CT pushing mid can be both good or bad for them.
Is anyone else finding this smoke really inconsistent? Is it because I'm playing 16:9 that things aren't lining up properly? Edit: works perfectly after desubticking!
@@sid_x_18 Yeah, after posting that it stopped being consistent. There's a much better smoke on the CS Tactics channel if you look up inferno mid smoke. Same corner but you line up with a white dot and jump throw
thats why this smoke should be done with a ct mid hold, once you throw it someone else mollies lower mid next to the smoke and then pushes up mid on a timing.
Didn't you make this same video the other week? My opinion is the same, it doesn't break anything, it just means a shifting meta depending on what utility is used, same as it's always been. Mollying bottom mid to deny T's control has always been a thing, this smoke doesn't change that - you can flash through it, blow it up, delay your default take or routing, or judging by the gap on the left, boost over T-stairs (where pugs awp). It's easier in CS2 for T's to throw a top mid smoke or a banana half wall smoke and flash/nade through, so CT's can't hold it for long without committing more utility or players and I'd rather see more fighting there than holding smokes at B for as long as possible every round as it was towards the end of GO. I still don't think delaying a standard default is worth it compared to denying B entirely later in the round. Imo the Faze smoke halfway down mid is more powerful because it's riskier for T's to come through - it requires teammates at 2nd mid and more utility to clear it properly compared to this ramp smoke. Pugs might get disjointed by this, but literally any unusual set (or even standard) seems to make people panic and mald.
There's a bigger change with inferno, you can no longer flash banana over the top, making any sort of fast rush B a suicide. Although it was the same in cs 1.5/1.6 in both versions of inferno the banana was unflasheable
Thats just not true, lining up outside of the entrance of t apps, aiming at the stop sign and jumpthrowing gives you an even stronger flash than what we had in csgo, full whiting the top banana awper for half a second.
@@iate3bricks.994 what do you mean self flash? You can flash over half wall just the same for yourself, im not sure which flash you are referring to. I mean yeah, the roofs over most of banana removed some lineups, but removing the skybox gava way for new ones. I personally think the mollies are a much bigger problem than some missing flashes, they cover such a huge area, a single molly can clear out tree, broom, and bottom banana which is way too op.
@@samu-yx8zv i think there's multiple changes to the map that ultimately make the map extremely CT sided, even more so than before, in most of my games cts always take bottom banana and mid control with grenades and molotovs so you're forced to wait them out and while you do the ramp smoke lands. Maybe it's the screwed timings, maybe it's the map geometry but something made taking banana control easier for the CTs in general
if u are bored, activate bulletimpact and shoot throu the top left side of wall :D you are welcome (ak and silenced works unsilenced didnt work for me)
The runthrow bind is inconsistent now Edit: I realised shortly after writing this comment that you had to hold down the button. I've never used a runthrow before and though tapping it like a regular jumpthrow bind would be enough. I stumbled across this video again just now and thought I'd leave this here in case anyone else was similarly confused.
A jumpthrow lands significantly slower than with a run, by about 4 seconds. I did a decent amount of testing. Although I haven’t tested the lineup you are referring to, time is very important with this smoke :)
Valve should keep the maps but drasticly restrict the throwing range to something realistic. Plus, I would add a "recoil" or randomness to the throw trajectory: the faarer you throw, the more imrecise the landing spot of utility. Also, molotovs should explode at first impact with an object, not like today when they can explode in the air or bounce off objects. Would also be something to deflect/distroy utility with bullets. .
This smoke is to powerful and will probably be removed. I know people probably wont agree but sometimes the game have to also be balanced for the 99.9999% of players that are not pros. This smoke is way do impactful and annoying to deal with.
The terrorists can also throw smoke grenades from their spawn, so I don't see it as an inherent issue. Who's to say as the metagame develops there won't be new utility discovered on both sides of the map?
T spawn has a roof overtop, so unfortunately you need to run for a little before you can throw anything meaningful. The opening is also very steep, so the only pieces of utility you can throw are banana smokes from my knowledge
@@CrusheryCS In that case, instead of obstructing the counter terrorists, it makes much more sense to remove the obstruction from the terrorist spawn. It's better to buff then nerf in my opinion, especially at a stage so early into the game
they shouldve left csgo as a separate game, not hidden behind a beta now we can't enjoy cs2 as an upgrade, just as a reskin. everything deviating from that is bound to run against the communities desires. if they've had left csgo, this problem wouldnt occur
There is this magic thing called a HE. I really don't understand how this does anything imo. Its like when moltovos were introduced and people started crying, but valve always intended for counter play with extinguishing them with a smoke. Same goes for this too. Realistically some of these smokes are thrown so early the CTs themselves take advantage of essence - I'm positive the pro scene basically just executes map positions like normal. If anything these smokes are evil during mid rounds or late rounds
I honestly hate the lack of skybox. It doesn't really do much as I said, it kinda breaks the tempo also by being able to "fake" presence on one side of the map to the other as a CT. But the biggest thing is SOOO many skybox HE and Molly deflects are now impossible. That's like a good 25% of CSGO lineups dead because of that. So idk. I'd rather they delayed Molly/incendiary grenade explosion to allow for deeper and more unique uses for them instead of up close.
The whole point of these smokes are to delay T side map control. Attackers have to address this smoke, which gives CTs the ability to create plans and set pieces :)
Lol 1 HE grenade from Ts as they run out of spawn == delaying map control In practice it's cool, in reality it won't be meta. Already haven't seen many in the current Tier 1 event being played in Sydney. Valve aren't stupid
@@CrusheryCSI just think these deep nades aren't very useful. I think it's likely teams will just evolve the older map control nades used in CSGO but with deeper presence. These "spawn" nades are very very easily countered for little utility
@@symbolitical4158 in old inferno there was a similar smoke from spawn that was thrown every single round and btw, this smoke was originaly created by ropz, a PRO player
valve pls fix... i used to hate skyboxes when i was searching for smokes but i understood that they are needed for balance, so why is valve not capable to understand this #messigame
![Chlöe - Shake (Feat. Jeremih) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aDs_1ufpfv8/mqdefault.jpg)
Don't tell me what to do.
jigachad
my life my rules my style my attitude
@@w04hjiger
I think thats a big reason why HE nades clear smokes. CT's waste an early smoke and T's waste a nade. I think Valve wants to balance the ultility usage on inferno
While that is true, the HE by the Ts will delay movement purely based on the damage problem. The smoke comes back very quickly too :)
Not very fun waiting for a guy on mid to dink you after, or subsequent grenades trying to get away from T ramp. It will force them to rotate to under or kitchen(T apps).
but in this case, breaking smoke w/ HE is not much effective.
@@CrusheryCS"purely on the damage problem" what. HE thrown from T spawn will literally not touch anyone T side. Smokes remains dissipated for like 2-3 seconds. That's a LONG time if you are supposedly taking mid control or banana. All for the cost of one small HE throw out of spawn.
Smoke is strong but not OP as you're making it out to be
you'd have to throw the HE before the smoke even lands to not damage and slow your teammates on a rush and even then with spawns Ts will be coming through the smoke while it's coming back@@symbolitical4158
if you could throw smokes from tspawn it would be a bit more fair, or a t apps window into mid like the old 1.6 map could spice up the meta
The window idea is interesting 🤔
i think there's a reason why nades can counter smoke now.
play around them, cs has always been about adapting to new metas and finding counter play
We shall see how this meta plays out! :)
no. Literally braindead rainbow 6 siege gameplay, then. "HuHah muh strategies!"
Go play a game with real strategy like chess
@@casperd2100what
@@casperd2100take your meds
@@casperd2100why you crying
The smokes definitely meant to play around. why?
Valve specifically removed skyboxes for this, for creativity and to change the meta of how smokes are being used. CT side can now take aggressive space by throwing spawn smokes rather than just sit back and let T side attack.
And the fact you can HE grenade the smokes too
If I recall correctly, valve actually opened up the Inferno skybox before, when they remade the map in 2016. Bottom Banana smokes from spawn and all over the map made Inferno wayyy too CT sided, and they actually blocked the skybox off again.
I'm not sure how I feel. We definitely have some T counterplay with HEs. We don't have any such utility available to the Ts which might be a solution.
Valve will look at the data and sort accordingly over time.
i like the idea of spawn smokes, theres more than a few on dust 2, the map may need to be tweaked a lil bit for them though, inferno is really reliant on being able to contest both sides of the map
Of course these smokes should be impossible. Encountered these
as T, very overpowered
pretty sure the best T spawns beats this smoke, since the lineup for the CT player is very precise, and he needs to get into that position before throwing it, which at best takes 2 seconds, depending on his spawn.
Theres a lot of ways to easily counter a smoke that deep but faze does one which is more in the middle which is a lot harder to counter
yeah, navi did not know what to do until halfway through the match lol
This smoke provides issues in a pug environment (mainly due to the less efficient communication between players), while Faze’s smoke is an evolution of this one within a teamplay condition. I love how pro teams sit down and develop theory :)
I bet you it was ropz who decided to play that smoke, he is always trying to innovate the most :)@@CrusheryCS
@@CrusheryCS u can just flash mid and go mexico for mid control and theres a lot of space in banana to hide so it doesn't really do much compared to Faze's smoke which blocks off Mexico completely and the cornor. it's just a little too deep that you can easily take the space in mid and banana from the ct's.
@@CrusheryCS just tried shooting through it too and since its so thin on the mid side and so far away from top mid its basically a 1 way for the t's.
nice smoke, but what is your crosshair, the one on about tab is not updated
It’s actually Mail09cs’ crosshair that I’ve been briefly using. If you search it up on google prosettings should have it ;)
T just run into the smoke to molly banana, hold the apps and 2nd mid and wait a bit to start the round later. So CT utilities will be wasted. CT pushing mid can be both good or bad for them.
Is anyone else finding this smoke really inconsistent? Is it because I'm playing 16:9 that things aren't lining up properly?
Edit: works perfectly after desubticking!
What did you do to fix that ? I’m having problems replicating this
@@sid_x_18 Yeah, after posting that it stopped being consistent. There's a much better smoke on the CS Tactics channel if you look up inferno mid smoke. Same corner but you line up with a white dot and jump throw
i cant even get it right with a run jump throw bind
If T get to own mid with AWP rush, CT should be able to defend it with smokes. Nothing unfair about that; it's the way the game works.
we need to see how they play out for a bit, then we can decide if they are bs or good
What's better between this smoke and the white dot smoke we had?
Much faster, about 20%
Just got a Inferno game and it is indeed faster @@CrusheryCS
If T's are fast they always get past these smokes anyway so there really not as powerful as you would think
This bind doesnt work for me, it just releases the grenade and runs, but doesnt jump
If anything that would make pushing through banana for A hits harder and with that smoke it does way more for B so it makes A more likely
thats why this smoke should be done with a ct mid hold, once you throw it someone else mollies lower mid next to the smoke and then pushes up mid on a timing.
Yes they are fair they ate accurate to the physics of the game
When I see it, I just flash mid and push. Banana on the other hand is lokey annoying.
whats your in game graphic settings? need to know
With new random jump height that can be bind .... Not gonna be consistent
We shall see what happens :)
Put up the ol radio antenna 😅
Didn't you make this same video the other week?
My opinion is the same, it doesn't break anything, it just means a shifting meta depending on what utility is used, same as it's always been. Mollying bottom mid to deny T's control has always been a thing, this smoke doesn't change that - you can flash through it, blow it up, delay your default take or routing, or judging by the gap on the left, boost over T-stairs (where pugs awp). It's easier in CS2 for T's to throw a top mid smoke or a banana half wall smoke and flash/nade through, so CT's can't hold it for long without committing more utility or players and I'd rather see more fighting there than holding smokes at B for as long as possible every round as it was towards the end of GO. I still don't think delaying a standard default is worth it compared to denying B entirely later in the round.
Imo the Faze smoke halfway down mid is more powerful because it's riskier for T's to come through - it requires teammates at 2nd mid and more utility to clear it properly compared to this ramp smoke. Pugs might get disjointed by this, but literally any unusual set (or even standard) seems to make people panic and mald.
yesssuurr
Long distance smokes are fun, eaelier u throw them earlier theyre gone
which one of the binds do we use?
If we had a smoke from T spawn, it'd be fine but this shit looks infuriating
There's a bigger change with inferno, you can no longer flash banana over the top, making any sort of fast rush B a suicide.
Although it was the same in cs 1.5/1.6 in both versions of inferno the banana was unflasheable
you can
Thats just not true, lining up outside of the entrance of t apps, aiming at the stop sign and jumpthrowing gives you an even stronger flash than what we had in csgo, full whiting the top banana awper for half a second.
@@samu-yx8zv fine, you can't self flash, how about that?
@@iate3bricks.994 what do you mean self flash? You can flash over half wall just the same for yourself, im not sure which flash you are referring to. I mean yeah, the roofs over most of banana removed some lineups, but removing the skybox gava way for new ones. I personally think the mollies are a much bigger problem than some missing flashes, they cover such a huge area, a single molly can clear out tree, broom, and bottom banana which is way too op.
@@samu-yx8zv i think there's multiple changes to the map that ultimately make the map extremely CT sided, even more so than before, in most of my games cts always take bottom banana and mid control with grenades and molotovs so you're forced to wait them out and while you do the ramp smoke lands. Maybe it's the screwed timings, maybe it's the map geometry but something made taking banana control easier for the CTs in general
These spawn smokes are fair, because CT side is hard enough as it is.
Its a great smoke, however it is pixel perfect.
So far I prefer CS with skyboxes so you can't do smokes like this one.
u can just nade it smoke will fade
if u are bored, activate bulletimpact and shoot throu the top left side of wall :D you are welcome (ak and silenced works unsilenced didnt work for me)
The runthrow bind is inconsistent now
Edit: I realised shortly after writing this comment that you had to hold down the button. I've never used a runthrow before and though tapping it like a regular jumpthrow bind would be enough. I stumbled across this video again just now and thought I'd leave this here in case anyone else was similarly confused.
Not yet.
@@CrusheryCS Unless you have the new workaround, it should be inconsistent again. Valve will likely patch out the new workaround too.
you can just aim to the left towards one of the white dots and jump throw, no need for a run and i believe it lands better
A jumpthrow lands significantly slower than with a run, by about 4 seconds. I did a decent amount of testing. Although I haven’t tested the lineup you are referring to, time is very important with this smoke :)
CS version of the mw2 noob tube
bro i need your fov
Valve should keep the maps but drasticly restrict the throwing range to something realistic.
Plus, I would add a "recoil" or randomness to the throw trajectory: the faarer you throw, the more imrecise the landing spot of utility.
Also, molotovs should explode at first impact with an object, not like today when they can explode in the air or bounce off objects. Would also be something to deflect/distroy utility with bullets. .
This smoke is to powerful and will probably be removed. I know people probably wont agree but sometimes the game have to also be balanced for the 99.9999% of players that are not pros. This smoke is way do impactful and annoying to deal with.
The terrorists can also throw smoke grenades from their spawn, so I don't see it as an inherent issue. Who's to say as the metagame develops there won't be new utility discovered on both sides of the map?
T spawn has a roof overtop, so unfortunately you need to run for a little before you can throw anything meaningful. The opening is also very steep, so the only pieces of utility you can throw are banana smokes from my knowledge
@@CrusheryCS In that case, instead of obstructing the counter terrorists, it makes much more sense to remove the obstruction from the terrorist spawn. It's better to buff then nerf in my opinion, especially at a stage so early into the game
they shouldve left csgo as a separate game, not hidden behind a beta
now we can't enjoy cs2 as an upgrade, just as a reskin. everything deviating from that is bound to run against the communities desires. if they've had left csgo, this problem wouldnt occur
CS2 was rushed for sure. Valve are super weary right now due to the problem that Source had when it launched, fragmenting the community :)
Daddy crush
😈
If it becomes the default and makes the map repetitve, it should be changed.
Pointless smoke really
There is this magic thing called a HE. I really don't understand how this does anything imo.
Its like when moltovos were introduced and people started crying, but valve always intended for counter play with extinguishing them with a smoke. Same goes for this too.
Realistically some of these smokes are thrown so early the CTs themselves take advantage of essence - I'm positive the pro scene basically just executes map positions like normal. If anything these smokes are evil during mid rounds or late rounds
I honestly hate the lack of skybox. It doesn't really do much as I said, it kinda breaks the tempo also by being able to "fake" presence on one side of the map to the other as a CT. But the biggest thing is SOOO many skybox HE and Molly deflects are now impossible. That's like a good 25% of CSGO lineups dead because of that. So idk. I'd rather they delayed Molly/incendiary grenade explosion to allow for deeper and more unique uses for them instead of up close.
The whole point of these smokes are to delay T side map control. Attackers have to address this smoke, which gives CTs the ability to create plans and set pieces :)
Lol 1 HE grenade from Ts as they run out of spawn == delaying map control
In practice it's cool, in reality it won't be meta. Already haven't seen many in the current Tier 1 event being played in Sydney.
Valve aren't stupid
@@CrusheryCSI just think these deep nades aren't very useful. I think it's likely teams will just evolve the older map control nades used in CSGO but with deeper presence.
These "spawn" nades are very very easily countered for little utility
@@symbolitical4158 in old inferno there was a similar smoke from spawn that was thrown every single round
and btw, this smoke was originaly created by ropz, a PRO player
valve pls fix... i used to hate skyboxes when i was searching for smokes but i understood that they are needed for balance, so why is valve not capable to understand this #messigame