Another cool thing about .31 caliber is that it is basically 00 Buck, so if you have the roundball mold, you can feed a 12 gauge shotgun as well. 36 Caliber balls don't fit well in a shotshell, while .31 caliber balls fit in groups of 3 in a shot shell, just like commercial buckshot. And black powder is very easy to use in shotshells. Perfect gun combo for a stagecoach driver!
00 buck is .33 and the 31 colt balls and conicals drop out at also .33 Its no coincidence that 00 and colts .31 (and many pepperbox) take the same ball as 12 gauge :)
@@jeffersoncarlisle3125 Nice. I have the Traditions Hawken in Flint.... real men shoot flint. :) I find the lock a little small, but otherwise, I love the gun.
I can't help wondering if larger calibers are popular because some folks think power will make up for sloppy shooting. I find lower power is easier to control and shoot well (assuming equivalent grip, sights, trigger, etc.). We hear the same bunk about modern calibers. Who else has heard that 25ACP and 32ACP are so weak they won't pass through a coat? Or that 22LR can't penetrate plywood? Same stuff, different century
I've seen people say that .38 special can't penetrate a winter coat. But ive also seen a cop mag dump 9mm in a guy 2 feet away and he still kept attacking him. Shot placement matters most.
@@SonoraSlinger I cannot agree with you. Some people have a very high pain tolerance, and a gut shot may not stop an attack. It may even just anger the attacker. Shot placement matters, especially with a smaller caliber. A belly shot needs a quick follow up with more deliberate placement. That's my thinking, anyway.
@@douglasmaccullagh7865 that's what I mean though. Ball and cap isn't exactly the kind of reload we want in a modern gunfight. Infantry is trained today to shoot twice center mass, and once in the head. It's called a failure drill. The idea is to use your center mass shots (with your small 5.56) to take your opponent out of the fight, and finish the job with a headshot. Apologies for not elaborating further.
I own two Uberti 1849 pocket revolvers. I actually carry one with me on the farm all the time. I have used it to dispatch pests like gofers, muskrats, and alike. Normally I use 12 grans of FFFFg with a lead ball and tallow to top it off. After a little bit of time tuning and filling both my examples turned into great EDC farm guns. I would not recommend it as a self defense gun but it is most definitely deadly.
@@History_Coffee I think these are perfect for small critters. I've seen the NAA in 22lr (not even the magnum version) be used to put down 200 lb boar that was in a trap. So this 31 can definitely do that or better. Shot placement is key.
I recently cut down an 1851 Navy in .36 and am pocket carrying it. I modified the grip to birdshead. It kinda sticks out of my pocket a little, but we are an open carry state, LOL.
FOREWARNING I'm writing this as historical data, not as suggestion about loadings in actual guns. Always refer to the user's manual of your gun manufacturer, and use reduced loads only in historic guns according to age and conditions, only after having them inspected by a skilled gunsmith for safety. Original loadings for Colt revolvers, as stated on original instruction sheet, verbatim: "For Army pistol - 1 1/2 Drachms For Belt ditto - 3/4 ditto For Pocket ditto - 1/2 ditto" WARNING: while the instructions say "drachms", conversion in grains should be made with AVOIRDUPOIS DRAMS (27,3 grains per dram), not DRACHMS (60 grains per drachm) to obtain the correct loadings, otherwise you get wild overloads. So, for Army pistol, 1.5 drams = 41 grains Belt pistol 0.75 drams = 20.5 grains Pocket pistol 0.5 drams = 13-14 grains Army means the Dragoons and Army pistols, of .44 caliber Belt means the Navy pistols, of .36 caliber Pocket means the Pocket pistols, of .31 and .36 caliber. The .31 caliber pistol, loaded with 13 grains of FFFg or FFFFg powder, and the round ball, is roughly equivalent of a .32 Acp, penetrating 11"-13" in Clear Ballistics clear gel. While today .32 ACP is considered "underpowered" for self defense, it's been used in Europe for half a century by the military and police alike with great effectiveness, the point being, as the video puts it, to place your shots accurately. Also, consider this: we are looking at these guns BACKWARDS from an era when 450 Joules 9 mm is considered "adequate" and pocket guns hold 8-13 rounds. Buyers of the 1849 pocket looked at those guns FORWARD from an era when pocket pistols had 1 shot, from an awfully short barrel and power was minimal, and "firepower" meant a brace of pocket percussion pistols (i.e.: 2 shots). The Pocket was as huge a leap forward as the FN HP "Wondernine" was in our times for handguns, probably even more impressive. 5 shots for self defense were considered A LOT, and for a little more encumbrance than a brace of pocket pistols took, you could get 10 shots with a brace of Colt Pockets!
Excellent video. Your comments are dead on the money accurate. The 19th century black powders intended for revolver use were much hotter than GOEX. GOEX does actually use the 1802 Dupont formula, using maple charcoal. Dupont intentionally used that formula for a lower pressure powder for U.S. Government use in the thin .69 caliber musket barrels of that day. Hazard Powder used willow charcoal and was a very hot sporting grade powder of mid-19th Century America. Modern Swiss uses Alder wood charcoal to also make a hotter sporting grade powder. Swiss 4Fg would be close to Hazard #1 Pistol Powder commonly used for C&B revolvers in the 1840-70 time frame. Hazard Cartridge Powder was a very fine grain powder (5Fg) provided to makers of revolver combustible cartridges, strictly for use in paper envelopes,and never intended to be loose loaded from a flask as the fine grain could dribble thru even good nipples, and set up a possible chain fire because of loose powder on the recoil shield. Swiss Null B (5Fg) would be pretty close to Hazard Cartridge Powder performance. It is best to replace the factory nipples on modern replicas with quality aftermarket nipples having tiny flash holes to minimize the back pressure from potent black powders like Swiss 4Fg. Also a lot of tuning will be needed to get modern replicas closer to the quality levels of original Colt, Remington, Whitney, etc revolvers of the 19th Century. Uberti makes very good replicas of the Colts & Remingtons, BUT compared to an original in decent shape, the Uberti falls WAY short of such quality. To get a Uberti up to the same level of quality as an original Colt would probably take around $1000 in work, which would include reaming cylinder chambers to proper Colt dimensions, doing a genuine case hardening job to proper hardness depth, on the frame, hammer and loading lever, plus hardening all the screws properly, and then precisely hand-tuning the fit and mechanics to the proper levels Colt would have done. Mark Hubbs of Eras Gone bullet Molds just completed a test of his replica .31 Colt conical (80 grain conical bullet) in a Uberti 4-inch barrel Colt Pocket replica using GOEX 4Fg powder (12 grain charge). Now GOEX 4Fg is not nearly as hot as Swiss 4Fg, but nonetheless, the little revolver hit 900 fps, and punched thru 5 one gallon water jugs for 30 inches of water penetration. The explosive impact of that little .31 conical on the first water jug is impressive, rivaling 22 Magnum HP's from a 6 inch barreled revolver! So anyone who thinks the little .31 revolvers are weak little toys needs to take a look at that video. You would NOT want to be on the receiving end of that .31 conical, believe me. Look up "Eras Gone Colt Baby Dragoon" on YT to see the eye opening results!
I just watched that video, and thank you for the extra information on powders. Stay tuned to the channel because you might see a hand fitted custom colt navy in the next few weeks that I'll be using to test out some different loading techniques and powders.
Interesting comment. I've made a couple of batches of my own powder using willow charcoal that I made and it seems pretty good. It is actually hard for me to get the powder not to be fine. Really good info about fine powder being used for paper cartridges. I was thinking of using my home made powder in paper cartridges because it doesn't flow well through my powder flask.
They didnt use maple in the best powders. They used willow or buckthorn. There wasent a willow tree within 50 miles of their plant back then.... They stripped and made their own charcoal out of them.
From what I've seen and researched, you are pretty much spot on with respect to powders of the day. Today real black powder is mostly considered a recreational material. Back in the day it was every bit as competitive between manufactures as smokeless companies are today. Swiss and a few others still make sporting powders, but most are basically crap. And while it may not be that powerful, it certainly is a deterrent, and will "pry someone off you" wether it kills them or not, and with good shot placement will certainly kill.
@@warthief3401 Not necessarily, look at 32acp and other small, not very effective modern rounds. It's partially a case of better than nothing. Kinda like someone asking if you are expecting trouble when you have a handgun. If I was expecting trouble I'd have a rifle. The 49 is very underpowered and barely adequate, but better than nothing and I for one wouldn't want to get hit with it even with modern medicine, much less 1850's. A concealed weapon always trades something for concealed cary. If anybody that had a 49 could shrink a Dragoon's power and lethality down to the ease of cary and conceal it like a 49 then most would. It's a compromise weapon. Think of it along the lines of the 1850's version of a pocket 22 or 32acp, not a canon, but don't want to get shot with it either and certainly better than not having a weapon.
All I can say is that I wouldn't want to get shot by this gun. People have said the same thing about the .36 cal. as well. However the Colt model 1851 Navy was used extensively during the Civil War and killed a lot of people, not to mention civilian and police use.
I think you are spot on in this. And don’t forget the conical bullet in combustible cartridges. I too use a modern reproduction. But it’s tuned in several different ways that maximize the the power. I hope you keep going with this line of modern nonsense vs real world period correct use of these CB guns. Like the 1970s when the “experts “ said crisco lube over the balls to prevent chain fire. That was hooey too. Balls the right size prevent that . And correct hammer springs prevent cap jams and pressure loss, hammer blow back.
Morons will also tell you that the 410 shotgun is "weak" and won't kill too(oddly enough, Remington HD 000 Buck 1250 fps, is labeled "Home Defense"). They will also tell you, that the 22 LR is only good against small game(yet manages to kill people every year). The same stupid people, will buy a brand new shotgun, cut the barrel off(along with it's very important choke) and call it a "Survival Shotgun".......
Thinking about it, it would be a poor choice for a cowboy or a Calvary soldier because they might be shooting at long distance or enemy Calvary. But for a shopkeeper or town people it would be perfect especially if you got the drop on a threat.
Yeah I wouldn't call it a fighting gun but it's certainly been pushed into that roll during the civil war and I've yet to find anyone saying it was underpowered
Finally, someone with some sense! load it up with a 85gr bullet and as much 4F Swiss powder (or high quality homemade) as you can, and you have a standard .32 Colt or.32 ACP; cartridges that were immensely popular with police, civilians, and even a few militaries early in the automatic (.32 ACP) days. saying it's not effective is like saying .30WCF is only good out to 100yd on deer lol.
I had a Uberti copy of the .31 Colt and yes it was disappointing if not loaded to full capacity but correct loading and it was a serious little revolver.
I'll agree with a previous comment that your voice is nice to listen to. I know who you're referencing, and I see your point and I see his. I don't honestly think that he believes this gun isn't capable of being lethal, but that it is a bit demure when compared to the 36 or 44 (and demure to our standards today). It's still fully lethal, but it's also probably more likely to wound when compared to the larger calibers. I think what he was really trying to highlight in the conversation, is that people in the 19th century and before were very aware that anything that punctured their bodies was a very likely a death sentence due to the absence of antibiotics, and that even though WE consider it a demure pistol but modern standards, people of the 19th century were just afraid of its lethality in the moment as well as a week later from infection should the round ball not finish the job when they were shot -- so it was, and is, a weapon to still be respected and feared when looking at the business end. Maybe it could have been communicated better, but that's the message I got out of it. Either way, I hope to get myself an 1849 if they ever come back in stock on dixiegunworks and keep going with the videos!
The fact of the matter is that the 31 caliber was ment to be a high powered parlor pistol. Big enough to kill but not go through the target. Found on colt historical document for sale and advertising.
Thanks for this informative video. The idea that anyone would have armed themselves with a pistol to only frighten or wound an attacker is absurd. If they were not effective several hundred thousand pistols of this type would not have been purchased with very hard earned money.
Nothing is more annoying than someone loading half chambers with 3f Goex and then pretending they know anything about the historical performance of a gun. I also think modern expectations of ballistic adequacy are grossly inflated. The .44 hit about as hard as .44 special maximally loaded and was expected to put down horses and black bears. The .36 hit as hard as .38 special when maximally loaded and that set the ballistic standard for police pistols for most of the 1900’s. The .31 hits like .22 lr, and that round puts more people in coffins than any other. Humans just aren’t very durable against high speed lead.
@@evocati6523 Good point, could be Fudd lore. I just heard it from an instructor years back, so it could be totally erroneous. I do know that the most commonly carried revolver in the Old West had the ballistics of .22 lr at most and 4 or 5 rounds capacity (1849 Pocket). The people of the time seemed to overwhelmingly agree it was better than a Bowie knife.
I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any gun at anytime for any reason. Those cap & ball revolvers are as deadly today as they were 150 years ago.
The 25 ACP uses a 50 gr bullet that is loaded at most often at less than 800 fps in 2 to 2.5 inch barrel. It is not designed to just wound someone in that the FMJ has adequate penetration if it does not hit bone to inflict lethal wounds and yes it does wound a lot of people. You are not giving velocities, but I assume with round ball the 31 navy with 4f powder of the day, was above 800 fps. It also took a conical bullet 76 grains perhaps with 4F powder while maybe not the 750 fps second or faster of a .32 ACP, but was likely not too far behind. Some .32 ACP loads can be faster. These are small and if a 31 colt was what I carried, I would also carry a larger knife. Good discussion and I often wonder why so many 31's were purchased. But then in American folklore, it is the 44 that people also sing about in the songs. An old woodie guthrie song about billy the kid. '' You sweet Mexican maidens, come give me your hand At the age of sixteen I killed my first man It was out in New Mexico, long long ago When a man's only chance was his old .44 '' We know billy was partial to the colt double action metallic cartridge guns of the day, but the song does mention the old 44.
So what is the best charcoal to use to make your own? I took chemistry at college and do gunsmithing but haven't messed with blackpowder yet. Have all the special tools and screens already, just unsure what coal dust is best. Willow seems to be a big one mentioned. Curious what people say!
The militaries of the world studied black powder in depth back in the early 1800's. The universal finding was that the type of charcoal made the single biggest difference. Charcoal made from alder buckthorn was the best, yielding 100 to 150 fps more than other types of charcoal. Charcoal made from softwoods was next best, with willow being the best of the softwoods. Charcoal from hardwoods worked, but was the least efficient. And bone charcoal is utterly useless. For experimenters now, forget activated charcoal (the kind offered for commercial sale is mostly activated charcoal). It's highly problematic and erratic. Charcoal from grapevines is really good, as is charcoal made from cedar shavings used as pet bedding. Corning increases usable power by approximately 15%, but isn't mandatory. What is corning? Pressing into a very hard puck, thoroughly drying it, then breaking and sifting into sizes. Most people don't have a hydraulic press to use for puck making, and as mentioned already, isn't mandatory.
@@kirkboswell2575Exactly what I wanted to know and why I asked! *_BIG THANKS_* !!! Many have said that on making BP. I have purchased at considerable expense all the sieves and equipment and mills needed (even a solid agate mortar and pestle). All the stuff period. OTS powder is weak compared to the real deal. I heard Willow and Grape vine were gotos but Alder would be good too I think and Cedar, but none of the pines, so another easy to source wood. Not sure what Alder Buckthorn is vs Alder but will look into it. Alder is all over in Alaska I know (I'm currently in Iowa). I collect wood species from all over the world (have so many hobbies!) but not heard those combined (alder and buckthorn). Have grape vine along the home (grow grapes too!) and will save up some chunks and turn to charcoal in an almost sealed retort (like charcloth is made but bigger). Guess what? I do bushcraft too lol. So many hobbies like I say. Anyway thanks big time!
Bravo, good job, a spot on accurate informative video! Watching your insightful, informative video and hearing you correctly mention Pistol Powder which was a very fine powerful gunpowder, similar to if not the exact same as FFFFG granulation and knowing that this fine Pistol Powder was loaded into a revolver's cylinder's top, brim with either a round ball or conical bullet compressed loaded in, tells me that you are indeed knowledgeable of factual accurate history! A 31 caliber version of my RFN Kaido Ojamaa-VKJV Universal Bullets is eventually going to be with molds to be available. My RFN Kaido Ojamaa-VKJV Universal Bullets offer the responsible user the most effective powerfactors in cap&ball percussion revolvers for Hunting and Wilderness Defense purposes.
Police carried 32 cal S&W long as duty weapons right into the 1940s in many police departments. The 31 cal pocket is basically a S&W 32 short and can be a successful defense weapon.
In your opinion, if the 49 Pocket Model was loaded with a "full charge" of Swiss 4f as you described, what would its closest ballistic equipment be today? I enjoyed your video. Thank you.
It's not really possible to translate, I guess philosophically speaking it'd be a 380acp but just ballistics numbers wise maybe a .32. I would feel more comfortable with a 31 conical than a 32fmj however, just in the case of terminal ballistics.
The 31 with a conical lead bullet of 85 grains and a full charge of 4F Swiss will be moving at 900 fps. For comparison, a 32 acp uses a 71 grain bullet at 800 fps, and most 380's use a 90 grain bullet at 850 fps (some plus P loads get 1050 fps). This places the effectiveness of the 31 right in the same ballpark as the 380. The differences being soft lead vs FMJ bullets. Soft lead has always been considered better at transferring energy to the target than FMJ stuff. So, for the naysayers, that claim the 31 was a scare tactic - you are full of it for spewing that kind of lie.
I don't think anyone believes that "getting an infection and dying a few days later" played any role in either the shooter or the bad guy. Fact is, the .31 _is a gun_ and it can poke nice holes in anyone. Not as dramatic as a .36 or a .44, but a concealed weapon is ALWAYS better than one left at home due to its weight and bulk. imho, that is what motivated the buyers...and the bad guy was often persuaded to "get thee gone" because of the nice little hole the .31 could accomplish. Just mho.
Yes I agree the popularity was due to it being easy carried and concealed, unfortunately I've heard the ridiculous infection myth a lot around the internet and there are people who actually believe that.
Colt's first revolver, the Patterson was a .28 caliber. The next size up was, I believe, a .31 and the next step up was a .34, which is what I read the Taxas Rangers initially used.
The 1849 was not designed to wound any more than a .25 auto is. Both weapons would like to be 50 BMG power MANSTOPPERS. Both are designed to get as close to that, as the creators think they can with the size of weapon they can produce. These are tiny hide out guns that are challenged to do the job they would like to be able to do.
Yes, people would totally not want to die of peritonitis and would back off if confronted with this small pistol. The threat of 4 follow on shots to seal the deal is even more of a deterrent. Not all attackers, to be sure. But even today a .22 pistol can still scare many attackers. Also, saying all projectile guns are meant to kill is dumb since so many even back in the day were target guns or plinkers or even novelties.
Great video and I agree with you about the power of this 31 cal. I have the so called Wells Fargo pocket that lacks the loading lever. So I must take it apart to load. Plus there is no evidence that Wells Fargo ever ordered these guns for employees. I load about 15 grains and I’ve shot round balls and conical. I would not want to be on the wrong end of this gun! I also have the 36 Navy and 44 Army and indeed, they pack a harder wallop! The pockets would definitely be deadly especially at close range. But they are lovely smaller guns that are fun to shoot. And as I always say, it’s like shooting history and makes you appreciate all that our ancestors went through. I have a 1829 69cal. Musket and talk about a wallop! It’s a wonder anyone survived getting hit with a hunk of lead like this. Kind Thanks! I really enjoyed your video about this pocket and deadly weapon. DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
The .223 was never designed to dominate a firefight, it was designed to maim and disorganize until air or artillery arrived. That's why it was developed at the exact same time as helicopter warfare.
No, it was not designed to maim, that's fuddlore. It was designed small so soldiers could carry more rounds to kill more enemy between resupplies. Use some common sense
Here is a video made by Mark Hubbs of eras gone bullet mold, showing the cal 31 1849 shot with its reproduction of the colt 80 grain sugarloaf bullet. The effect on the water jugs and the chronograph measurements speak for themselves. No, this revolver was not created by Samuel Colt to be content with frightening! ruclips.net/video/VknxDTbw4QE/видео.html
The .31 Patterson was ineffective as a man stopper. Which was why Sam walker commissioned the .44 walker. So if .31 was ineffective with a big barrel and larger cylinder charge. Why on earth do you think colt would suddenly say oh we were wrong. No the pocket was designed to intimidate and scare. It is true that something is better than nothing. But if you run the risk ( which you do) of not being able to end the threat you are in danger. The diminutive size and caliber gave too much confidence
Bro... Google the caliber of the Patterson the Texas rangers used, Google Samuel Walker's letter to Sam Colt, and after you do that you can come back, edit your comment to be less condescending and we can debate the point.
ego maniac- Um, just where did you come up with that load of crap? The Texas Rangers LOVED their Pattersons - which BTW were 34 caliber. They were used to drive off a Comanche war party that was about 3 or 4 times as large as the Rangers troop. The Rangers fired their single shot rifles, and the Comanches charged - knowing how long it took to reload. Unfortunately for the Comanches, the Rangers were also carrying Pattersons and didn't bother reloading. The Comanches were decimated. This single encounter was the stimulus for Lt Walker to seek out Colt for the production of a saddle carried revolver for cavalry. That collaboration resulted in the Walker and saved Colt from obscurity. Realizing that a saddle carried revolver would be too big for anyone NOT in the cavalry, Colt started working on "smaller" revolvers - starting with the Dragoon and ending with the 1860 Army (army vs navy was a caliber distinction - not who got them). Start investigating actual historical documents instead of repeating what you've heard.
A well placed shot will kill anything. Look what David did to Goliath with one smooth round stone!😋 I agree with you, those would theory’s are nonsense.
Great show ! Bought my 1st 44 c&b in 1970 , ran lbs of powder through that brass framer loved it . KIETH was right . A lot of experts forget all the dead from cw and the west . M.B.
The pocket pistol was the choice of many settlers moving west .. it was light easy to carry 4 shots if you knew what you were doing with a fifth when capped .. carring a long gun all day while leading your oxen made for a long day
Army officers and enlisted men carried these in the Civil War as did the Pony Express riders! The Indians didn't scare too easy and neither did Rebs or Bluebellies!
Capnball showed these are on par or slightly better than 36 cal energy wise! Smaller surface area so I would assume then they penetrate like mad! No reason they can't kill. Lookup Bloody Bill Anderson about his. He loved them I guess!
I don't think anyone doubts that one of these little guns can kill someone eventually. But the purpose of a combat weapon is to stop the bad guy from doing you first. This gun will kill but it does not stop. I would take a revolver with 22 Long rifle hollow points over this gun all day long. I have 2 31 caliber pistols and I've shot them extensively, I will acknowledge that someone would get pretty pissed off if you shot them with it.
I think the kill/stop thing is definitely the weeds, I agree to some extent and I wouldn't use one for self defense with today's calibers available to me. But on the other hand a 31 caliber bp revolver absolutely has the ability to drop someone in their tracks and probably has throughout history just like the many people who have been killed by things like 22lr, 25acp, and 32acp, all of which were cartridge calibers born from the 31. I also don't think people would have been jumping over themselves and paying ridiculously marked up prices for these guns out west if they didn't do the job.
So cringe... Look at original accounts of how many 1" pine boards this could go through, if you still pick a .22 over this you're not using facts to make the choice, you're using emotion
Anyone that wants to say they can’t be killed with this gun I’d say sign the disclaimer and stand by that tree over there and let’s find out. It’s stupid. I’ve killed deer and coyotes with a .22 pistol. That’s another round everyone says won’t kill you. And that’s rubbish. Give me a .22 pistol or this .31 BP and I will kill just about anything under the sun with them guaranteed. Shot placement is always a factor with any gun. I saw a guy get shot in a biker bar in the 90’s 8 times with a 9mm and he still got to the guy with the gun and took it from him and beat him half to death with it before it got broke up. The shooter was spraying and praying and didn’t hit one vital organ on that man. So shot placement is more important in my opinion than caliber. I wouldn’t be afraid to carry a .31 for self defense at all. All you need is one good shot.
If you're talking about, old powders, and the way they were manufactured, in the early 1800s? You might be right? However, in today's world, black powder is much better. The metallurgy is better. Given that, I wouldn't wanna get shot with anything. I wouldn't feel unarmed carrying a pocket pistol, at all. I have carried pocket pistols in .25 ACP, 32 caliber, and 380. Even in .38 SPL. So, it's not what it is, it's what you do with it. Pocket guns are designed for concealment. They're designed to conceal, so you don't let people know, what your plans are or what/if you're carrying. As, I said... Personally, I wouldn't feel unarmed carrying one.
I don't think people back then really cared what caliber was going to shoot em. They did not want to get shot. The infection thing is a real thing. Not saying it was the thing but most had seen people die of infections from even a cut. Also. Digging a bullet out had to be pretty nasty. I think a lot of things went through someones mind when a gun was pointed at em. The little derringers of the time were not only weak but inaccurate. The 41 rimfire was a relatively large bullet but way less energy even than the Colt pocket when fired from the over under derringers of the day. No one wanted to get shot by one of them. The pocket was far more accurate and had 5 rounds at hand! You might survive a couple three shots from the little pocket but... 95% of people (and they were tough back then) would be out of the fight.
Sorry but one of the arguments presented to the troops after adoption of the 5.56 NATO was that the cartridge was more likely to wound and that would remove two people from the battlefield. No I don't agree with that premise BUT that IS what they told the troops. Ask me how I know. As for the powders, I have no clue. I don't like BP and shoot 777 which is generally considerably "hotter" than FFFg (any brand). Regarding any handgun design being made to wound? Pshaw! ;) Of course they were designed to stick in someone's nose and clear his sinuses out the back of his head.
They never said that to anyone, it's something that popped up in the 90s on the history channel. There's never been any evidence of the 5.56 wounds instead of kills nonsense besides people repeating it in forums. It's our generation's "the garand ping will get you killed" myth. And if your proof is "my nco said" I heard that crap in the army too, it doesn't make it true and there's zero written documentation for it in any nato ordinance testing and procurement.
15 grains of FFF powder 1 round of buckshot a #10 cap some homemade bore butter and it's fun and cheap shooting for a long time, wouldn't consider my choice for protection, although I wouldn't want to get shot with anything especially with black powder.
It is annoying to watch videos one third of the screen and all because people use cell phones in vertical way to make them, please when using the cell phones to make videos use them in a horizontal way. Thank you
You hear some stupid $hit on gun channels. These 31s are about like 22 LR Pistols. They can be and were certainly lethal in their time. Elmer Kieths first gun was a 1849 cap and ball revolver. He was about 10 or 12 years old and he used it on his trap line to kill bob-cats and coyote that he caught in his traps much like trappers today use the 22. I have a1848 baby dragoon With the rare 6 inch barrel. I like it a lot. If it was all I had I could get by with it except for big game. Thanks for the video.
If memory serves I believe Keith's first gun was one of a pair of 1851 navies he bought of a Confederate cavalry veteran as a kid. The second of the pair was lost when the left hand of said cavalry trooper was taken off by a musket ball in battle. Only reason I remember that is it's a hell of a story.
Another cool thing about .31 caliber is that it is basically 00 Buck, so if you have the roundball mold, you can feed a 12 gauge shotgun as well. 36 Caliber balls don't fit well in a shotshell, while .31 caliber balls fit in groups of 3 in a shot shell, just like commercial buckshot. And black powder is very easy to use in shotshells. Perfect gun combo for a stagecoach driver!
00 buck is .33 and the 31 colt balls and conicals drop out at also .33 Its no coincidence that 00 and colts .31 (and many pepperbox) take the same ball as 12 gauge :)
@@The411 interesting comment, thanks. I JUST ordered a Traditions Kentucky Flintlock from DixieGunWorks. Should be interesting!
@@jeffersoncarlisle3125 Nice. I have the Traditions Hawken in Flint.... real men shoot flint. :) I find the lock a little small, but otherwise, I love the gun.
@@The411 neat! I heard about the locks being small...I couldn't afford a Pedersoli.....hmm... I hope it works! thanks
Actually, single 0 buck is an ideal load, .32 diameter. Smaller does not shave off the proverbial lead ring. 00 buck is .33 diameter, too big.
I can't help wondering if larger calibers are popular because some folks think power will make up for sloppy shooting. I find lower power is easier to control and shoot well (assuming equivalent grip, sights, trigger, etc.). We hear the same bunk about modern calibers. Who else has heard that 25ACP and 32ACP are so weak they won't pass through a coat? Or that 22LR can't penetrate plywood? Same stuff, different century
Wow well said! Agreed! 22lr and 25 acp can *easily* kill.
I've seen people say that .38 special can't penetrate a winter coat. But ive also seen a cop mag dump 9mm in a guy 2 feet away and he still kept attacking him. Shot placement matters most.
A single belly shot should stop just about anyone from moving forward with these small calibers.
@@SonoraSlinger I cannot agree with you. Some people have a very high pain tolerance, and a gut shot may not stop an attack. It may even just anger the attacker. Shot placement matters, especially with a smaller caliber. A belly shot needs a quick follow up with more deliberate placement. That's my thinking, anyway.
@@douglasmaccullagh7865 that's what I mean though. Ball and cap isn't exactly the kind of reload we want in a modern gunfight. Infantry is trained today to shoot twice center mass, and once in the head. It's called a failure drill.
The idea is to use your center mass shots (with your small 5.56) to take your opponent out of the fight, and finish the job with a headshot.
Apologies for not elaborating further.
I own two Uberti 1849 pocket revolvers. I actually carry one with me on the farm all the time. I have used it to dispatch pests like gofers, muskrats, and alike. Normally I use 12 grans of FFFFg with a lead ball and tallow to top it off. After a little bit of time tuning and filling both my examples turned into great EDC farm guns. I would not recommend it as a self defense gun but it is most definitely deadly.
Yeah I carry mine occasionally as a snake gun.
@@History_Coffee I think these are perfect for small critters. I've seen the NAA in 22lr (not even the magnum version) be used to put down 200 lb boar that was in a trap. So this 31 can definitely do that or better. Shot placement is key.
i actually carry my 3rd model dragoon on my farm
I recently cut down an 1851 Navy in .36 and am pocket carrying it. I modified the grip to birdshead. It kinda sticks out of my pocket a little, but we are an open carry state, LOL.
FOREWARNING I'm writing this as historical data, not as suggestion about loadings in actual guns. Always refer to the user's manual of your gun manufacturer, and use reduced loads only in historic guns according to age and conditions, only after having them inspected by a skilled gunsmith for safety.
Original loadings for Colt revolvers, as stated on original instruction sheet, verbatim:
"For Army pistol - 1 1/2 Drachms
For Belt ditto - 3/4 ditto
For Pocket ditto - 1/2 ditto"
WARNING: while the instructions say "drachms", conversion in grains should be made with AVOIRDUPOIS DRAMS (27,3 grains per dram), not DRACHMS (60 grains per drachm) to obtain the correct loadings, otherwise you get wild overloads.
So, for
Army pistol, 1.5 drams = 41 grains
Belt pistol 0.75 drams = 20.5 grains
Pocket pistol 0.5 drams = 13-14 grains
Army means the Dragoons and Army pistols, of .44 caliber
Belt means the Navy pistols, of .36 caliber
Pocket means the Pocket pistols, of .31 and .36 caliber.
The .31 caliber pistol, loaded with 13 grains of FFFg or FFFFg powder, and the round ball, is roughly equivalent of a .32 Acp, penetrating 11"-13" in Clear Ballistics clear gel.
While today .32 ACP is considered "underpowered" for self defense, it's been used in Europe for half a century by the military and police alike with great effectiveness, the point being, as the video puts it, to place your shots accurately.
Also, consider this: we are looking at these guns BACKWARDS from an era when 450 Joules 9 mm is considered "adequate" and pocket guns hold 8-13 rounds.
Buyers of the 1849 pocket looked at those guns FORWARD from an era when pocket pistols had 1 shot, from an awfully short barrel and power was minimal, and "firepower" meant a brace of pocket percussion pistols (i.e.: 2 shots).
The Pocket was as huge a leap forward as the FN HP "Wondernine" was in our times for handguns, probably even more impressive.
5 shots for self defense were considered A LOT, and for a little more encumbrance than a brace of pocket pistols took, you could get 10 shots with a brace of Colt Pockets!
Excellent video. Your comments are dead on the money accurate. The 19th century black powders intended for revolver use were much hotter than GOEX. GOEX does actually use the 1802 Dupont formula, using maple charcoal. Dupont intentionally used that formula for a lower pressure powder for U.S. Government use in the thin .69 caliber musket barrels of that day. Hazard Powder used willow charcoal and was a very hot sporting grade powder of mid-19th Century America. Modern Swiss uses Alder wood charcoal to also make a hotter sporting grade powder. Swiss 4Fg would be close to Hazard #1 Pistol Powder commonly used for C&B revolvers in the 1840-70 time frame. Hazard Cartridge Powder was a very fine grain powder (5Fg) provided to makers of revolver combustible cartridges, strictly for use in paper envelopes,and never intended to be loose loaded from a flask as the fine grain could dribble thru even good nipples, and set up a possible chain fire because of loose powder on the recoil shield. Swiss Null B (5Fg) would be pretty close to Hazard Cartridge Powder performance. It is best to replace the factory nipples on modern replicas with quality aftermarket nipples having tiny flash holes to minimize the back pressure from potent black powders like Swiss 4Fg. Also a lot of tuning will be needed to get modern replicas closer to the quality levels of original Colt, Remington, Whitney, etc revolvers of the 19th Century. Uberti makes very good replicas of the Colts & Remingtons, BUT compared to an original in decent shape, the Uberti falls WAY short of such quality. To get a Uberti up to the same level of quality as an original Colt would probably take around $1000 in work, which would include reaming cylinder chambers to proper Colt dimensions, doing a genuine case hardening job to proper hardness depth, on the frame, hammer and loading lever, plus hardening all the screws properly, and then precisely hand-tuning the fit and mechanics to the proper levels Colt would have done. Mark Hubbs of Eras Gone bullet Molds just completed a test of his replica .31 Colt conical (80 grain conical bullet) in a Uberti 4-inch barrel Colt Pocket replica using GOEX 4Fg powder (12 grain charge). Now GOEX 4Fg is not nearly as hot as Swiss 4Fg, but nonetheless, the little revolver hit 900 fps, and punched thru 5 one gallon water jugs for 30 inches of water penetration. The explosive impact of that little .31 conical on the first water jug is impressive, rivaling 22 Magnum HP's from a 6 inch barreled revolver! So anyone who thinks the little .31 revolvers are weak little toys needs to take a look at that video. You would NOT want to be on the receiving end of that .31 conical, believe me. Look up "Eras Gone Colt Baby Dragoon" on YT to see the eye opening results!
I just watched that video, and thank you for the extra information on powders. Stay tuned to the channel because you might see a hand fitted custom colt navy in the next few weeks that I'll be using to test out some different loading techniques and powders.
@@History_Coffee Looking forward to it. TY!
Interesting comment. I've made a couple of batches of my own powder using willow charcoal that I made and it seems pretty good. It is actually hard for me to get the powder not to be fine. Really good info about fine powder being used for paper cartridges. I was thinking of using my home made powder in paper cartridges because it doesn't flow well through my powder flask.
I PREFER THE REMINGTON .31 PERCUSSION.
They didnt use maple in the best powders. They used willow or buckthorn. There wasent a willow tree within 50 miles of their plant back then.... They stripped and made their own charcoal out of them.
From what I've seen and researched, you are pretty much spot on with respect to powders of the day. Today real black powder is mostly considered a recreational material. Back in the day it was every bit as competitive between manufactures as smokeless companies are today. Swiss and a few others still make sporting powders, but most are basically crap. And while it may not be that powerful, it certainly is a deterrent, and will "pry someone off you" wether it kills them or not, and with good shot placement will certainly kill.
If they where not good at killing they would not have been used
@@warthief3401 Not necessarily, look at 32acp and other small, not very effective modern rounds. It's partially a case of better than nothing. Kinda like someone asking if you are expecting trouble when you have a handgun. If I was expecting trouble I'd have a rifle. The 49 is very underpowered and barely adequate, but better than nothing and I for one wouldn't want to get hit with it even with modern medicine, much less 1850's. A concealed weapon always trades something for concealed cary. If anybody that had a 49 could shrink a Dragoon's power and lethality down to the ease of cary and conceal it like a 49 then most would. It's a compromise weapon. Think of it along the lines of the 1850's version of a pocket 22 or 32acp, not a canon, but don't want to get shot with it either and certainly better than not having a weapon.
@@forge52100 lol. 22 kills more people than any other round avaliable today.
All I can say is that I wouldn't want to get shot by this gun. People have said the same thing about the .36 cal. as well. However the Colt model 1851 Navy was used extensively during the Civil War and killed a lot of people, not to mention civilian and police use.
No pistol made by Colt was made to just wound anyone. The 49 pocket is a lethal firearm
I think you are spot on in this. And don’t forget the conical bullet in combustible cartridges. I too use a modern reproduction. But it’s tuned in several different ways that maximize the the power. I hope you keep going with this line of modern nonsense vs real world period correct use of these CB guns. Like the 1970s when the “experts “ said crisco lube over the balls to prevent chain fire. That was hooey too. Balls the right size prevent that . And correct hammer springs prevent cap jams and pressure loss, hammer blow back.
This is also the debut of the new History&Coffee camera tripod, so everyone get excited.
Morons will also tell you that the 410 shotgun is "weak" and won't kill too(oddly enough, Remington HD 000 Buck 1250 fps, is labeled "Home Defense"). They will also tell you, that the 22 LR is only good against small game(yet manages to kill people every year). The same stupid people, will buy a brand new shotgun, cut the barrel off(along with it's very important choke) and call it a "Survival Shotgun".......
Thinking about it, it would be a poor choice for a cowboy or a Calvary soldier because they might be shooting at long distance or enemy Calvary. But for a shopkeeper or town people it would be perfect especially if you got the drop on a threat.
Yeah I wouldn't call it a fighting gun but it's certainly been pushed into that roll during the civil war and I've yet to find anyone saying it was underpowered
Finally, someone with some sense! load it up with a 85gr bullet and as much 4F Swiss powder (or high quality homemade) as you can, and you have a standard .32 Colt or.32 ACP; cartridges that were immensely popular with police, civilians, and even a few militaries early in the automatic (.32 ACP) days.
saying it's not effective is like saying .30WCF is only good out to 100yd on deer lol.
I had a Uberti copy of the .31 Colt and yes it was disappointing if not loaded to full capacity but correct loading and it was a serious little revolver.
after a certain date Colt was a Colonel and I have one so marked
I'll agree with a previous comment that your voice is nice to listen to. I know who you're referencing, and I see your point and I see his. I don't honestly think that he believes this gun isn't capable of being lethal, but that it is a bit demure when compared to the 36 or 44 (and demure to our standards today). It's still fully lethal, but it's also probably more likely to wound when compared to the larger calibers. I think what he was really trying to highlight in the conversation, is that people in the 19th century and before were very aware that anything that punctured their bodies was a very likely a death sentence due to the absence of antibiotics, and that even though WE consider it a demure pistol but modern standards, people of the 19th century were just afraid of its lethality in the moment as well as a week later from infection should the round ball not finish the job when they were shot -- so it was, and is, a weapon to still be respected and feared when looking at the business end. Maybe it could have been communicated better, but that's the message I got out of it. Either way, I hope to get myself an 1849 if they ever come back in stock on dixiegunworks and keep going with the videos!
The fact of the matter is that the 31 caliber was ment to be a high powered parlor pistol. Big enough to kill but not go through the target. Found on colt historical document for sale and advertising.
Thanks for this informative video. The idea that anyone would have armed themselves with a pistol to only frighten or wound an attacker is absurd. If they were not effective several hundred thousand pistols of this type would not have been purchased with very hard earned money.
Josey Wales used one.
Nothing is more annoying than someone loading half chambers with 3f Goex and then pretending they know anything about the historical performance of a gun. I also think modern expectations of ballistic adequacy are grossly inflated. The .44 hit about as hard as .44 special maximally loaded and was expected to put down horses and black bears. The .36 hit as hard as .38 special when maximally loaded and that set the ballistic standard for police pistols for most of the 1900’s. The .31 hits like .22 lr, and that round puts more people in coffins than any other. Humans just aren’t very durable against high speed lead.
There is no data that supports people being shot left and right with 22LR I don't know why people keep repeating that
@@evocati6523 Good point, could be Fudd lore. I just heard it from an instructor years back, so it could be totally erroneous. I do know that the most commonly carried revolver in the Old West had the ballistics of .22 lr at most and 4 or 5 rounds capacity (1849 Pocket). The people of the time seemed to overwhelmingly agree it was better than a Bowie knife.
Me: doesn't care about guns
Also me: sits and listens 'cause his voice is really nice 😊
I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any gun at anytime for any reason. Those cap & ball revolvers are as deadly today as they were 150 years ago.
4F full cylinder. Compressed ball
5-6 rounds whichever cylinder you had.
And that is how it was done.
Good to see some of the junk debunked
The 25 ACP uses a 50 gr bullet that is loaded at most often at less than 800 fps in 2 to 2.5 inch barrel. It is not designed to just wound someone in that the FMJ has adequate penetration if it does not hit bone to inflict lethal wounds and yes it does wound a lot of people. You are not giving velocities, but I assume with round ball the 31 navy with 4f powder of the day, was above 800 fps. It also took a conical bullet 76 grains perhaps with 4F powder while maybe not the 750 fps second or faster of a .32 ACP, but was likely not too far behind. Some .32 ACP loads can be faster.
These are small and if a 31 colt was what I carried, I would also carry a larger knife.
Good discussion and I often wonder why so many 31's were purchased. But then in American folklore, it is the 44 that people also sing about in the songs. An old woodie guthrie song about billy the kid.
'' You sweet Mexican maidens, come give me your hand
At the age of sixteen I killed my first man
It was out in New Mexico, long long ago
When a man's only chance was his old .44 ''
We know billy was partial to the colt double action metallic cartridge guns of the day, but the song does mention the old 44.
So what is the best charcoal to use to make your own? I took chemistry at college and do gunsmithing but haven't messed with blackpowder yet. Have all the special tools and screens already, just unsure what coal dust is best. Willow seems to be a big one mentioned. Curious what people say!
This channel gets deep into making black powder and would know better than me youtube.com/@WillardMcBain
The militaries of the world studied black powder in depth back in the early 1800's. The universal finding was that the type of charcoal made the single biggest difference. Charcoal made from alder buckthorn was the best, yielding 100 to 150 fps more than other types of charcoal. Charcoal made from softwoods was next best, with willow being the best of the softwoods. Charcoal from hardwoods worked, but was the least efficient. And bone charcoal is utterly useless.
For experimenters now, forget activated charcoal (the kind offered for commercial sale is mostly activated charcoal). It's highly problematic and erratic. Charcoal from grapevines is really good, as is charcoal made from cedar shavings used as pet bedding. Corning increases usable power by approximately 15%, but isn't mandatory. What is corning? Pressing into a very hard puck, thoroughly drying it, then breaking and sifting into sizes. Most people don't have a hydraulic press to use for puck making, and as mentioned already, isn't mandatory.
@@History_CoffeeWow many thanks!
@@kirkboswell2575Exactly what I wanted to know and why I asked! *_BIG THANKS_* !!! Many have said that on making BP. I have purchased at considerable expense all the sieves and equipment and mills needed (even a solid agate mortar and pestle). All the stuff period. OTS powder is weak compared to the real deal. I heard Willow and Grape vine were gotos but Alder would be good too I think and Cedar, but none of the pines, so another easy to source wood. Not sure what Alder Buckthorn is vs Alder but will look into it. Alder is all over in Alaska I know (I'm currently in Iowa). I collect wood species from all over the world (have so many hobbies!) but not heard those combined (alder and buckthorn). Have grape vine along the home (grow grapes too!) and will save up some chunks and turn to charcoal in an almost sealed retort (like charcloth is made but bigger). Guess what? I do bushcraft too lol. So many hobbies like I say. Anyway thanks big time!
Bravo, good job, a spot on accurate informative video!
Watching your insightful, informative video and hearing you correctly mention Pistol Powder which was a very fine powerful gunpowder, similar to if not the exact same as FFFFG granulation and knowing that this fine Pistol Powder was loaded into a revolver's cylinder's top, brim with either a round ball or conical bullet compressed loaded in, tells me that you are indeed knowledgeable of factual accurate history!
A 31 caliber version of my RFN Kaido Ojamaa-VKJV Universal Bullets is eventually going to be with molds to be available.
My RFN Kaido Ojamaa-VKJV Universal Bullets offer the responsible user the most effective powerfactors in cap&ball percussion revolvers for Hunting and Wilderness Defense purposes.
I am glad you don't subscribe to the,"only made to wound," mentality. 👍👍
Police carried 32 cal S&W long as duty weapons right into the 1940s in many police departments. The 31 cal pocket is basically a S&W 32 short and can be a successful defense weapon.
Correct me if I am wrong, but from the time .22 shorts were available and up to this day and age, they were/are the preferred caliber of assassins!
In your opinion, if the 49 Pocket Model was loaded with a "full charge" of Swiss 4f as you described, what would its closest ballistic equipment be today? I enjoyed your video. Thank you.
It's not really possible to translate, I guess philosophically speaking it'd be a 380acp but just ballistics numbers wise maybe a .32. I would feel more comfortable with a 31 conical than a 32fmj however, just in the case of terminal ballistics.
The 31 with a conical lead bullet of 85 grains and a full charge of 4F Swiss will be moving at 900 fps. For comparison, a 32 acp uses a 71 grain bullet at 800 fps, and most 380's use a 90 grain bullet at 850 fps (some plus P loads get 1050 fps). This places the effectiveness of the 31 right in the same ballpark as the 380. The differences being soft lead vs FMJ bullets. Soft lead has always been considered better at transferring energy to the target than FMJ stuff.
So, for the naysayers, that claim the 31 was a scare tactic - you are full of it for spewing that kind of lie.
I don't think anyone believes that "getting an infection and dying a few days later" played any role in either the shooter or the bad guy. Fact is, the .31 _is a gun_ and it can poke nice holes in anyone. Not as dramatic as a .36 or a .44, but a concealed weapon is ALWAYS better than one left at home due to its weight and bulk.
imho, that is what motivated the buyers...and the bad guy was often persuaded to "get thee gone" because of the nice little hole the .31 could accomplish.
Just mho.
Yes I agree the popularity was due to it being easy carried and concealed, unfortunately I've heard the ridiculous infection myth a lot around the internet and there are people who actually believe that.
Yeah, its like everyone just forgot that bleeding exists.
Colt's first revolver, the Patterson was a .28 caliber. The next size up was, I believe, a .31 and the next step up was a .34, which is what I read the Taxas Rangers initially used.
Excellent video I agree with you completely I mean what are what's the ballistics of my my Bowie knife
The 1849 was not designed to wound any more than a .25 auto is. Both weapons would like to be 50 BMG power MANSTOPPERS. Both are designed to get as close to that, as the creators think they can with the size of weapon they can produce. These are tiny hide out guns that are challenged to do the job they would like to be able to do.
Where did you get that bullet mold and how much did it cost?
I believe I got it from Taylor's and co
Yes, people would totally not want to die of peritonitis and would back off if confronted with this small pistol. The threat of 4 follow on shots to seal the deal is even more of a deterrent. Not all attackers, to be sure. But even today a .22 pistol can still scare many attackers. Also, saying all projectile guns are meant to kill is dumb since so many even back in the day were target guns or plinkers or even novelties.
Thanks for this excellent analyse.
Mark Hubs from Erasgone bullets loaded his 1849 to get equivalent velocity to 32 acp with 4 fg powder and a conical bullet that will get the job done
Great video and I agree with you about the power of this 31 cal. I have the so called Wells Fargo pocket that lacks the loading lever. So I must take it apart to load. Plus there is no evidence that Wells Fargo ever ordered these guns for employees. I load about 15 grains and I’ve shot round balls and conical. I would not want to be on the wrong end of this gun! I also have the 36 Navy and 44 Army and indeed, they pack a harder wallop! The pockets would definitely be deadly especially at close range. But they are lovely smaller guns that are fun to shoot. And as I always say, it’s like shooting history and makes you appreciate all that our ancestors went through. I have a 1829 69cal. Musket and talk about a wallop! It’s a wonder anyone survived getting hit with a hunk of lead like this. Kind Thanks! I really enjoyed your video about this pocket and deadly weapon. DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
By the way they call me DaveyJO because I make a great CuppaJO (coffee) it certainly goes well with history! Thanks Again!
If you want more power in the same package, get the 1862 Pocket Navy .36. Same gun with larger bore.
I have an 1862 Pocket Navy and I love that gun! Very small and Elegant.
The .223 was never designed to dominate a firefight, it was designed to maim and disorganize until air or artillery arrived. That's why it was developed at the exact same time as helicopter warfare.
All of the ordnance reports concerning 5.56 have been declassified for decades, go read them.
No, it was not designed to maim, that's fuddlore. It was designed small so soldiers could carry more rounds to kill more enemy between resupplies. Use some common sense
To kill, wound or deter is academic. The gun is capable of all three. These pistols were made to stop a threat.
Here is a video made by Mark Hubbs of eras gone bullet mold, showing the cal 31 1849 shot with its reproduction of the colt 80 grain sugarloaf bullet. The effect on the water jugs and the chronograph measurements speak for themselves. No, this revolver was not created by Samuel Colt to be content with frightening! ruclips.net/video/VknxDTbw4QE/видео.html
I believe that they were meant to kill not wound. They have more power than people think
Can you use 4f in the 1849 pistol ????
Yes
The .31 Patterson was ineffective as a man stopper. Which was why Sam walker commissioned the .44 walker.
So if .31 was ineffective with a big barrel and larger cylinder charge. Why on earth do you think colt would suddenly say oh we were wrong. No the pocket was designed to intimidate and scare. It is true that something is better than nothing. But if you run the risk ( which you do) of not being able to end the threat you are in danger. The diminutive size and caliber gave too much confidence
Bro... Google the caliber of the Patterson the Texas rangers used, Google Samuel Walker's letter to Sam Colt, and after you do that you can come back, edit your comment to be less condescending and we can debate the point.
ego maniac- Um, just where did you come up with that load of crap? The Texas Rangers LOVED their Pattersons - which BTW were 34 caliber. They were used to drive off a Comanche war party that was about 3 or 4 times as large as the Rangers troop. The Rangers fired their single shot rifles, and the Comanches charged - knowing how long it took to reload. Unfortunately for the Comanches, the Rangers were also carrying Pattersons and didn't bother reloading. The Comanches were decimated. This single encounter was the stimulus for Lt Walker to seek out Colt for the production of a saddle carried revolver for cavalry. That collaboration resulted in the Walker and saved Colt from obscurity. Realizing that a saddle carried revolver would be too big for anyone NOT in the cavalry, Colt started working on "smaller" revolvers - starting with the Dragoon and ending with the 1860 Army (army vs navy was a caliber distinction - not who got them).
Start investigating actual historical documents instead of repeating what you've heard.
A well placed shot will kill anything. Look what David did to Goliath with one smooth round stone!😋 I agree with you, those would theory’s are nonsense.
Great show ! Bought my 1st 44 c&b in 1970 , ran lbs of powder through that brass framer loved it . KIETH was right . A lot of experts forget all the dead from cw and the west . M.B.
Pocket model? They must have had big ass pockets back then.
They did.
The pocket pistol was the choice of many settlers moving west .. it was light easy to carry 4 shots if you knew what you were doing with a fifth when capped .. carring a long gun all day while leading your oxen made for a long day
Army officers and enlisted men carried these in the Civil War as did the Pony Express riders! The Indians didn't scare too easy and neither did Rebs or Bluebellies!
Happy to subscribe
How much ffff would get spit out the barrel?
Has anyone checked?
9 grains
Jokes aside it actually all burns up pretty good, a lot better than 3f
I subbed & liked. Fine vid! Thanks
Capnball showed these are on par or slightly better than 36 cal energy wise! Smaller surface area so I would assume then they penetrate like mad! No reason they can't kill. Lookup Bloody Bill Anderson about his. He loved them I guess!
I don't think anyone doubts that one of these little guns can kill someone eventually. But the purpose of a combat weapon is to stop the bad guy from doing you first. This gun will kill but it does not stop. I would take a revolver with 22 Long rifle hollow points over this gun all day long. I have 2 31 caliber pistols and I've shot them extensively, I will acknowledge that someone would get pretty pissed off if you shot them with it.
I think the kill/stop thing is definitely the weeds, I agree to some extent and I wouldn't use one for self defense with today's calibers available to me. But on the other hand a 31 caliber bp revolver absolutely has the ability to drop someone in their tracks and probably has throughout history just like the many people who have been killed by things like 22lr, 25acp, and 32acp, all of which were cartridge calibers born from the 31. I also don't think people would have been jumping over themselves and paying ridiculously marked up prices for these guns out west if they didn't do the job.
So cringe... Look at original accounts of how many 1" pine boards this could go through, if you still pick a .22 over this you're not using facts to make the choice, you're using emotion
I don't want to be shot with an air rifle, let alone one of these. People are tripping if they don't think this is a "real" gun 😂
Wikipedia says 700-800fps
anyone that thinks a firearm is weak. may be right, but i will still invite them to hold my target !!!!
Good Video, but slow down on the 'You Knows' - Most of us are here because we don't know.
If you are going to this particular caliber then why did colt make the 5.5 inch sheriffs pistol in..44 caliber. .?
Just like modern weapons, people want larger calibers.
The 5.5" barrel was easier to pull from the holster and probably a bit quicker to aim with.
Is it TRUE there’s a “Spanish” knock-off of this revolver???
Penetration test needed bro. Thanks
i like my 1849. i use hornady .330 double aught buck, 13 grains triple 7 powder and cci #10 caps. with no problems. "black powder, shooting done fun"
Anyone that wants to say they can’t be killed with this gun I’d say sign the disclaimer and stand by that tree over there and let’s find out. It’s stupid. I’ve killed deer and coyotes with a .22 pistol. That’s another round everyone says won’t kill you. And that’s rubbish. Give me a .22 pistol or this .31 BP and I will kill just about anything under the sun with them guaranteed. Shot placement is always a factor with any gun. I saw a guy get shot in a biker bar in the 90’s 8 times with a 9mm and he still got to the guy with the gun and took it from him and beat him half to death with it before it got broke up. The shooter was spraying and praying and didn’t hit one vital organ on that man. So shot placement is more important in my opinion than caliber. I wouldn’t be afraid to carry a .31 for self defense at all. All you need is one good shot.
If you're talking about, old powders, and the way they were manufactured, in the early 1800s? You might be right? However, in today's world, black powder is much better. The metallurgy is better. Given that, I wouldn't wanna get shot with anything. I wouldn't feel unarmed carrying a pocket pistol, at all. I have carried pocket pistols in .25 ACP, 32 caliber, and 380. Even in .38 SPL. So, it's not what it is, it's what you do with it. Pocket guns are designed for concealment. They're designed to conceal, so you don't let people know, what your plans are or what/if you're carrying. As, I said... Personally, I wouldn't feel unarmed carrying one.
Modern powder is much weaker than the old stuff, you have it backwards
I don't think people back then really cared what caliber was going to shoot em. They did not want to get shot. The infection thing is a real thing. Not saying it was the thing but most had seen people die of infections from even a cut. Also. Digging a bullet out had to be pretty nasty. I think a lot of things went through someones mind when a gun was pointed at em. The little derringers of the time were not only weak but inaccurate. The 41 rimfire was a relatively large bullet but way less energy even than the Colt pocket when fired from the over under derringers of the day. No one wanted to get shot by one of them. The pocket was far more accurate and had 5 rounds at hand! You might survive a couple three shots from the little pocket but... 95% of people (and they were tough back then) would be out of the fight.
“It dose some wacky shit” I’m dying
Scientific term
Sorry but one of the arguments presented to the troops after adoption of the 5.56 NATO was that the cartridge was more likely to wound and that would remove two people from the battlefield. No I don't agree with that premise BUT that IS what they told the troops. Ask me how I know. As for the powders, I have no clue. I don't like BP and shoot 777 which is generally considerably "hotter" than FFFg (any brand). Regarding any handgun design being made to wound? Pshaw! ;) Of course they were designed to stick in someone's nose and clear his sinuses out the back of his head.
They never said that to anyone, it's something that popped up in the 90s on the history channel. There's never been any evidence of the 5.56 wounds instead of kills nonsense besides people repeating it in forums. It's our generation's "the garand ping will get you killed" myth. And if your proof is "my nco said" I heard that crap in the army too, it doesn't make it true and there's zero written documentation for it in any nato ordinance testing and procurement.
Well let me travel about half the speed of a 22 long rifle but it weighs about 14 G more and it has about 20 or so more foot pounds of energy
This or your fist. Simple - Click bang.
I hear the same crap about my NAA 22 Mag revolver 🙄
15 grains of FFF powder 1 round of buckshot a #10 cap some homemade bore butter and it's fun and cheap shooting for a long time, wouldn't consider my choice for protection, although I wouldn't want to get shot with anything especially with black powder.
What caliber is this gun
.31 cal cap and ball.
@@edjecollins4141 thanks
It is annoying to watch videos one third of the screen and all because people use cell phones in vertical way to make them, please when using the cell phones to make videos use them in a horizontal way. Thank you
Fantasizing fanboys whose never been shot or shot someone b like.... BUT A MERE FLESHWOUND 🤓🤓🤓
You hear some stupid $hit on gun channels.
These 31s are about like 22 LR
Pistols.
They can be and were certainly lethal in their time.
Elmer Kieths first gun was a 1849 cap and ball revolver. He was about 10 or 12 years old and he used it on his trap line to kill bob-cats
and coyote that he caught in his traps much like trappers today use the 22.
I have a1848 baby dragoon
With the rare 6 inch barrel.
I like it a lot. If it was all I had I could get by with it except for big game.
Thanks for the video.
If memory serves I believe Keith's first gun was one of a pair of 1851 navies he bought of a Confederate cavalry veteran as a kid. The second of the pair was lost when the left hand of said cavalry trooper was taken off by a musket ball in battle. Only reason I remember that is it's a hell of a story.
@@History_Coffee I got my recollection from his book Sixguns.
I f I can find it I will give you Chapter and Verse.
Thanks again
The last ice age ended faster.
That's what she said
Military calibur it is the bullets that matter military bullets are met to tumble to w
Not all military calibers tumble, stick to video games and airsoft
Metal Gear Solid 3 logic